by those words that the body of man and all that which is in the fleshe and the vices therein is giuen for meate to the Serpent whom they do call Azazell lord of the fleshe and the bloud and Prince of that world saying that he is also called in Leuiticus the Prince of the deserts Sith then that our body is created and made of the slime and dust of the earth and that the earth is giuen for meat vnto the serpent they conclude thereby that our bodies are subiect vnto him and in his power vntill such time as they be sanctified and that the earthly fleshe bee transformed and changed into a spirituall nature And therfore say they that that body hath neede both in his buriall whilest that he is in this earth to be purified sanctified through prayers sacrifices encensements exorcismes coniurations and other ceremonies fit for the same Theophilus Durand in that booke wherein he yeldeth the reason of all the popish ceremonies speaking of the office and burying of the dead allegeth the same reasons and almost nothing differeth from the Iewes and Cabalistes Wherein we may well know that the supersticious christians followe more the Iewish and Cabalisticall doctrine then the Christian and Apostolicall doctrine For Durand himselfe is compelled to confesse that the bodies of the dead are encensed and sprinkled with holy water not to that end that they are purged and deliuered from their sinnes which could not then by such things be defaced put out But to the ende that the wicked spirites and theyr presence should be dryuen away And therefore saith hée that in some places they do put of the the holy water into the tombe or graue with the fire and encense and that the holy water is put there to the eâ—de that the diuell shoulde not come neere for he doth feare it very much Hillarius It hath bene well declared and proued by Fryer Gyles that holy Cordelier vnto whom the diuel appeared so terrible that he could not speake for feare And as the diuell came vppon him and greeued him muche Fryer Giles could not arise but did creepe as well as hee coulde vnto a vessell wherein was holy water wherewith hee sprinkled himselfe and was incontinently deliuered from that feare that the diuell did vnto him Theophilus Behold a good proofe the holy water hath then more vertue and power then Iesus Christe and the faith in him or els that Fryer Gyles had no faith which is the buckler and shield wherewith the Apostle teacheth vs to resist the diuell I do muche meruaile where God hathe commauÌ„ded to driue away the diuell by water and when the true seruants of God haue vsed such weapons aginste the diuell Hillarius At the leastwise they must prouide for him a boate if they would driue him awaye by water Theophilus When the witnes of the scripture faileth it must néedes be that those maisters of ceremonies haue then recourse vnto fables But for to returne againe vnto the reasons of Durand he addeth moreouer that in what soeuer place the christians shal be buried out of the churchyarde they ought to set alwayes a crosse at his head For the diuell doth feare very much that signe dareth not to come nigh the place where he seeth the crosse Hillarius That is bicause that the earth which is out of the church yard is not coniured Wherby it hath not so much vertue And therfore in recoÌ„pence they do ad y crosse for to driue away the diuell Theophilus For y same cause do they also coniure y earth of y churchyard For as they do witnes affirme the diuels haue vsed to get theÌ„ vnto the dead bodies and to exercise their cruelty and vengeaunce against them and inforce themselues to do vnto them at the least wise after that they are dead that whiche they could not do whilest they were aliue Furthermore they say that at the day of iudgement our Lorde Iesus Christe will say vnto them that present themselues vnto him that whiche be aunswered vnto the disciples of the Herodians and Pharises when they asked of him the question of the tribute and that they had shewed vnto him the money and Image of Cesar Euen so will he say vnto those whose is this Image what money is this Then those which shal be marked with the crosse shal be knowen to bee good christian money And Iesus Christ will say that whiche is Cesars that is to say vnto the diuell giue it him that which is vnto God giue it to God. Hillarius I am abashed if the diuell dares carrye away those which haue made vppon them the signe of the materiall crosse especially the priestes and moonks whiche are all hyd and couered with them Are not these goodly reasons and most worthy of such diuines Eusebius Yea those are Godly reasons what will you say to the contrary do ye thinke that soe manye wise men which haue bene in the churche haue not well considered the causes wherefore they ought to do that And that it hath not ben ordeyned without good iust reason Theophilus Thou hast heard them and thou hast also the Iewes Cabalists and Panyms for to be the firste authors of them But those dreames are yet more tollerable and worhty of pardon then those here bycause that hauing the braine full of false opinions and inchauntments they feare least the enchauntors Magitians and especially the coniurers and the diuell with them should abuse their bodies thorow their enchauÌ„tments necromances witchcraft But what excuse or coloure can the christians haue who ought to be assured of their saluation in Iesus Christ as wel for the body as for the soule vsing such ceremonies which I may truly call charmes inchauntements magicall supersticions and purifications and not euangelical For although that the earth hath bene giuen for meate to the serpent and that our bodies are taken of the earth how will God permit and suffer that that olde serpent shall defile those bodyes whiche haue bene the Temple habit ation of his holy ghost And whiche haue bene consecrated vnto him thorow the bloud of his sonne Iesus Christ and sanctified thorow his spirite haue the water and the earth which are bewitched and charmed after the manner as the enchaunters charmers do their exorcisms coniurations and a corruptible and a materiall crosse more vertue then the consecration of our bodies and soules whiche Iesus Christ the great and soueraigne Byshoppe and eternall Priest hath done by his bloud and the liuely water of his holy spirit and the baptisme that we haue receyued in his name And if we as good christians haue borne the crosse with him that is to say the troubles and aduersities of this world in all patience and haue put all our hope and trust in the merite of his death passion reioysing our selues only in his crosse as the holy apostle saith
the resurrection For then the habite shall be cleane rotten and I do not beléeue that it shall arise with the body and that those which are dead in the same shall arise agayne clothed in a Cordelier For it shall not be then time to make maskes and daunce the morish There is neyther the habite of Fraunces Dominicke nor of any Moonke whatsoeuer he be nor any thing that man can muent and dreame which can serue vs any thing before the face of that great Iudge of the quicke of the dead no more then the Fig leanes serued Adam for to couer him before him but that hée will sée all our filthinesse and abhominations if they hée not couered and hid with the righteousnes and innocencie of Iesus Christ Wherefore if we will appeare clothed and not naked before his maiestie it must be that he himselfe doe cut out and make the apparayle and habite wherewith we must be clothed as he did make vnto Adam and and Eue. And therfore we must follow the counsaile of the Apostle who exhorteth vs to put off the olde man and to put on not y habite of Fraunces or Dominicke but our Lur Lord Iesus Christ For that is an habite which serueth both to the body and to the soule and which delyuereth from the iudgement of god That is the holy water the lights bells sencings and candells which delyuereth our bodies soules from the power of the serpent whose head he hath broken That is the water of lyfe which rayseth vs vnto eternall lyfe which washeth and maketh cleane our consciences That is the true fire of Purgatorye and furnayce in which the olde Adam is melted and made newe and the newe man purged from all his filthynesse and simes Wherefore I doe giue counsell vnto you all that you take good héede that such treasure be not stollen from you and that you trust not to the good déeds which those that be alyue shall doe for you after that you are dead But that you doe putte your trust in Iesus Christ and declare and shew foorth the vertue and efficacie of your fayth thorow charitie and good workes which doe serue to the glory of God to the edyfiyng of his Church and the vtilytie of our neighbour and that you follow the example of the true seruaunts of God and the doctrine which the holy Ghost by them hath giuen vnto vs not the Gentiles and Panims and the false pyophets seducers which haue altogether turned vpside downe the Christian Religion and haue conuerted it not only into Iewishnes but also into panimrie witchcraft sorcertee Eusebius You haue spoken as it pleaseth you but I must néeds auniswere you For if you dispute plead all alone you may easely winne the victory Hillarius We desire none other thing then to heare thy reasons but wée haue forgotten one of the princiyall poynts For we haue not yet demaunded of Thomas the cause wherfore he would go to saint Patricke the which I desire glady to know Thomas I haue determined with my selfe many times to tel you but I desire to heare first what Eusebius can say agaynst you Wherefore I doe thinke it best that forasmuch as all these dayes there is none of vs which is so greatly occupyed but that wée may giue him the next day for his reuenge to aunswere And after that I haue hearde all you I will declare vnto you y meruaylous fantastes which I haue in my head Hillarius I beléeue that there is none of vs but that he is of that opinion Theophilus In stéede where others doe passe awaye the time in playing and other vayne occupations whereoff commeth no profite I finde it better that we vse such recreations which bring no hurt vnto any man but may much serue and profite vs For in so doing we learne the one the other and doe examine the things together the better to knowe how to render a reason of our Law and Religion besides that we learne some honest recreation together the which is better agreeing with our estate then to remayne idle without doing any thing or in losing the time in beholding foolysh playes and maskes or in banketting and in bestowing great expences yet to the hurte and domame of our bodyes and soules or vnto sléeping and as beastes to giue our selues onely vnto pleasures as many doe And although that all wée may bée occupied in other mens affaires eyther publicke or domesticall which woulde better serue for the pursse and for the perticular gayne profite yet neuertheles one cannot be alwaies attētife in great affaires without hauing some intermission and relaxation of the spirite And wée must not be so couetous after the gayne and the perticular profite that at no time we should haue leasure to speake and falke of the things of God and that thorow honest pleasures and recreations we may not refresh our wits and spirites and prepare them agayne to the great affaires to which God hath called vs all according to the grace that we haue receyued of him Thomas There is nothing more certeyn then that which thou sayst and I would not for a great thing but that I had bene with you and to haue heard that which I haue heard Hillarius Wée shall knowe in the ende what tast thou hast had therein Yet neuerthelesse I doe more feare leaste that Eusebius bée more offended then thou But I trust notwithstandinge that the hope that he hath of the victory will giue him courage and boldnesse to come agayne the more willyngly ¶ A TABLE OF THE PRINCIPALL matters of the first parte of the Dialogues A. ABuses are not yet inough vncouered made knowne fol. 16 Accipe sal sapientae 35. Aduenturers 47. Adams apparell 114. Affectators of languages what affections the Gospel doth permit 67. Alexander the firste inuentiour of holye water 35. Alexandrines 66. Alexander Seuerus Emperour 43. Ambrose and Theodosius 78. Ambition of Alexander 13. Anacharsis 5. Angells the ministers of the faithful 103. Anniuer saries 25. Antipopes and Schisutaticks 88. Apes requisite in the court of Babilon 19. Apes of Iesus Christ 35. Apothegme of Diogenes 60. Applications of Iesus Christ 34 Arithiuettcians and schoole of Arithineticke 42. Aristoxenus 70. The art to learn priests to be sober 39. All artes disciplines the handmaidens of holy letters or bookes 6. Auarice of the Romaines 41. Auernus 90. The authors instituters of funeralls 100. B. Bables of fooles 8. Bay tree 75. Bactrianians and Hireanians 58. Bacchus 33. 13 Babilon taken 93. Bagpipe of Sathau 106. Banner and the crosse 73. Baptisine 41. Baptisines and wasshings of the Iewish people 34. Baptising of bells 73. Bathes 45. Bathing place of the dead 36. Battayle of the diuell agaynst dead bodyes 102. Belles and Images the Priests vicars 71. Bells doe speake all languages 72. Bells to driue away the dwells 73. Bellyes that are shoughtfull 74. Benedictio bladi salis ouerum 42. Benedictio
woemen which followed Iesus Christe from Galile vntill he was buryed willinge to anointe him in his sepulchre dyd not thinke of his resurrection but did thinke to haue founde him dead as the Angells rebuked them saying why seeke yee the liuinge amonge the dead There is no doubte but that there was yet in them humayne affection towardes the bodye of Iesus Christe as wee haue towardes the dead But to the ende that wee maye haue no more neede to dispute muche of it wylt thou bee contented if I doe alledge vnto thee Augustine agaynste Augustine To whome haddest thou rather staye eyther vppon Saincte Augustine followinge the opinion of men wythout the Scripture and speakinge doubtfullye as vncerteyne or vnto hym and other auncient Doctours wyth the holy Scripture Eusebius I doe not thincke that Sainct Augustine would speake against himselfe nor the he hath bene contrary vnto the holy Scripture nor to the auncient Doctors Theophilus Thou canst not shewe vnto mee that hee hath affirmed the Purgatorye certeynlye But I will declare vnto thee places by the whiche hee hath altogether abolyshed it Marke howe hee hath put none other Purgatorye then the bloude of Iesus Christe hee sayth speakinge of Porphyras a Platonist that hee hath not knowen Iesus Christe to bee the begynninge thorowe whose incarnation wee are purged For hee shoulde haue then acknowledged a Purgatorye And in an other place hee sayth Wee haue then the bictorye in his name which hath taken mannes fleshe and hath liued without sinne to the ende that by hym beeiâ—ge the Priest and the sacrifice we are made the remyssion of sinnes That is to saye thorowe the medyatour of God and men the man Iesus Christe who in hys owne person hath purged our sinnes and restored be agayne vnto god For men are not seperated from God but thorowe sinne for which it lyeth not in vs thorowe our owne power and strength to purge them in this lyfe but therow the mercy God thorow his clemeney not thorowe our power For that vertue whiche is called ours whatsoeuer it bee it is graunted vnto vs thorowe his goodnesse Doth hee not cleerelye shewe that the purgation of sinnes is done in this lyfe and yet not thorowe our owne righteousnesse nor vertue Holve can it then bee done in the other lyfe thorowe the vertue and merytes of an other Furthermore hee manyfestly sayth the soules of the good men after they are seperated from the body are at rest and wee muste not doubt of it but those of the wicked are punished vntyll such time as the bodyes of those doe ryse againe to eternall lyfe and of these heere to eternall death whiche is called the seconde death But is it possible to speake more cleerelye and purely of Iesus Christe and of the Purgatorye that wee haue in him then when hee sayth Thorowe his death that is to saye by one onelye and true sacrifice which hath bene offered for vs hee hath purged abolythed and put out all that that had anye saultes in vs Wherefore the hygher power and those of authoritie doe bolde and keepe vs for to bee punyshed And by his resurrection hath called vnto a newe lyfe wee which were predestyned hee hath iustified those that hee called and glorified the iustified Beholde woords very cleere And speaking of the opinion of Plato he sayth Those which are of that opinion doe thincke that after that one is deud there is no other paines then of Purgatorye for to purge sinnes Alyttlo after hee sayth Wee confesse that in this mortall life there is a certeyne Purgatory paine It seemeth that hee somewhat agreeth that the tribulations and aduersities that man suffereth in this world do serue him for a purgation of his sinnes the which yet neuerthelesse they dare not to attribute but to Iesus Christ Although that we doe commonly say of him which hath had much euil griefe in this world the he hath had heere his Purgatory For that tasteth muche of the opinion of Plato But Sainct Augustin doth not make ther meÌ„tioÌ„ of any paineâ— of purgatoy after this life but he sayth playnely that the soules of the faythfull do rest after the deathe of the bodye But what wilt thou more cléerer then when hée sayeth Some doe beleeue that those also whiche haue not abandoned the name of Christ and which haue bene baptized in hys Church and haue not belie cutte off from the same thorow anye schisme or heresie that in whatsoeuer sinnes they haue lyued in the which they shall not deface and put away thorowe penaunce nor redeemed thorow doing of almes beedes but shall perseuer and continue in them continually vntill the last daye of their lyfe shall be saued thorow the fire Although that according to the greatnesse of theire sinnes and misdéedes that fire shall bée diuturnall but not eternall But mée thincketh that those that doe beléeue this and yet neuerthelesse are catholikes are deceyued thorowe mans beneuolence For the holy Scripture if one doe looke and search in it aunswereth an other thing Thou seest héere Eusebius that be speaketh of the fire of Purgatory whatsoeuer thinge he hath spoken at other time And sayth moreouer that there is but two wayes to wit one of dampnation and an other of saluation But marke well his owne words The fayth of the catholikes thorowe the diuine authoritie doth first beleeue that there is a kingdome of heauen Secondly that there is a hell in the which euerye apostate and straunger to the fayth of Christe is punyshed Wee are altogether ignoraunt of the thirde But wée doe not finde in the holy Scriptures that there is any It seemeth to mee that hée speaketh very cléerely and that those authorities ought to suffice thee against all that that thou canst alledge of the auncient Doctors in the fauour of Purgatory Yet neuerthelesse the better to vanquish and pull thée down I wil yet shew foorth vnto thee some sentences of the most auncient Doctoures Marke what Tertulian sayth It seemeth vnto euery one that is wise which haue heard somtime spoken of the fields Ehseus that it hath some locall determination which hath bene called Abrahams bosome for to receyue the soules of his children and that the same region or countrey is not celestiall but it is yet neuer the lesse more higher then hell in which the soules of the righteous doe rest vntyll such time as the consumation of the thinges restoreth the resurrection of all men thorowe perfect rewarde I doe not prayse that which Tertulian hath determyned of the place wythout witnesse of the Scripture but I thincke it a very daungerous thinge to define of suche thinges wythout wytnesse of the same and I had rather staio my selfe vpon the sentence of sainct Augustine which sayth that it shoulde bee very good that an vncerteyne thing of which not onely the Scriptures doe make no mention of it but doe speake the contrary that
of the holy Scriptures is sufficient for vs yet this ought further to moue vs to confound the Infidlls when we doe see the vertue of the truth to be so puissaunt and of such force that it constrayneth Philosophers Poets and others who haue bene ignorant of the knowledge of God to confesse it and to beare witnesse thereoff Thomas But me thinkes that our Priests and Monks do much differ from Plato Virgile in y they do lodge y richest people and the great Princes and Lords sooner in Purgatory then in Hel. Hillarius Do you not know the cause There came no profite vnto Plato nor Virgile of the Purgatory as commeth vnto those beléeue that although they had any profite they were of a better conscience and that for their owne perticuler gayne they would not haue so seduced the poore ignorant people For they do shew foorth by their writings that they had a certeyne feare and knowledge of God more then we may acknowledge in these our priestes For they watche after the deade bodyes as the Rauens doe vppon carrion And if they can méete with any dead man that hath his purse well stuffed with money wherewith hée is able to paye his raunsome they will be sure to make him tell who hath eaten the fat they will put him in such a place from whence hee cannot come out before they haue taken some fat from him For they are the tyrants of tyrants and the pillers of the great pillers and Vsurers whom they will not suffer to be broiled and tormented of the Diuells but they will be their hangmen themselues take away that office from them to whom God hath giuen it Thomas They shal be theÌ„ much tormeÌ„ted by this accompt For they shal be cruelly handled in this world and also in the other after their death as they haue vexed b tormented y worlde whilst they were alyue And suffer them not notwithstanding to fall into y hands of the Diuells But I would gladly know what payne the other haue that haue committed smaller sinnes Hillarius Plato and Virgile do lodge these in Purgatory especially the simple people which haue not bene of great credite and authoritie Wherefore they could not haue so great lycence to doe euill as the others And if they had committed any fault they had not the power so much to hurt the people as the others had For the sinnes of the Princes doe not hurt onely themselues But as well by them as by their euill example they doe hurte and destroye all the worlde where the simple people doe hurt but themselues And therefore they did thinke that their sins were sanable and that they might be purged For that cause they condemned them not vnto eternall dampuation For they thought y they had not committed euils inough for to be damned that ther was some remedie to be healed Also they lodged them not at y first dash in y fields of bliseas as the other great and vertuous men who thorowe their vertue haue merited to be incontinently receiued into blessednesse and toye or in the number of Gods. Thomas Those then which were good people and which had not the power to doe so euill as the other doe go into Purgatory against their wils Neuertheles I am sure that God will not held them excused therfore For â—e regardeth the heart will and the affections and not onely the workes as the Philosophers doe Our priests differ not much from that opinion For they Cannonise lodge among the Saints those whome they doe iudge to haue bene most vertuous and holyest and the soules perfectly good the which doe fly straight into heauen and haue no néede of our good déedes Hillarius That is to wéete the most greatest Hypocrites superstitious and Idolaters those which haue done most for them and that haue best nourished and fed their fat bellyes Thomas They doe lodge in Purgatory those who haue not accomplished héere their penaunce which neuerthelesse dyed confessed and repentaunt or which do not carry deadly sinne with them but onely veniall sinnes the which may be purged by the fire For there is some remedy for those Hillarius Such is their doctrine But notwithstanding when it commeth to triall they neyther haue regarde to mortall nor yet veniall sinnes but sooner to the riches or to the pouertie It is all one with them whether the sinnes be mortall or veniall sanable or insanable so that the dead hath wherewith to paye their drougs medicines money for his raunsome and letters of grace that they make for them by their buls and pardons And as touching the poore of whome they haue no profite it is to them all one whether they go be it into Paradise Hell or Purgatory For they haue no care of the soules but onely of their purses Thomas I haue yet one thing to demaunde of thée Doe they say that there is fire in y Poets Purgatory as there is in y of the priests Hillarius It séemeth to mée that y Poets are a lyttle more reasonable and more merciful then the priests and Monks For they make not such broyling and rosting of the poore soules Thomas How then Hillarius Bicause that they haue assigned the payne a little easier and lyghter according to euery ones misdéedes For they condempne not all generally to y fire But they do make thrée differences according to the greatnesse and smalnesse of sinnes Those that haue sinned most grieuously and which are most full and stuffeâ— with sinnes and which are most earthly and most hardest to be purged béeing so harde glewed and tyed to the soule that it cannot be pluckt away nor made cleane by no meanes but thorow the fire are put and cast into the hot furnace For they must be melted all new agayne The other that are not altogether so filthy vile and that haue not their sinnes so glewed in the soule that one cannot pul them away are holden for a certeine time within the great goulfes of water for to be there washed and made cleane Ther are yet others y are lesse faultie and guyltie which haue committed but certeyne small sins that hath no neede of such strong purgation And therefore they are hanged but a lyttle in the ayre for to winde them For they néede but to haue a lytle winde for to blowe away the dust that cleaueth fast to the soule bicause of the coniunction that it hath with his body and his fleshe Thomas As farre as I perceiue they doe with the soules in that Purgatorye as we doe with our apparayle sheetes vessell and mettall For when we haue any clothes or shéetes that are dustie or whereof we doubt the Moths and Wormes we stretch them abroad and hang them vppon a pearch in the ayre for to winde and cleane them And if ther be any spot or staine that will not easely come out we wash them with water
Pamins do allow the Ceremonies Feasts and Anniuersaries of the dead yet neuerthelesse they doe also teache that it is not nowe néedefull to bestowe any greate cost about them but that they content themselues with a little thing euen as Ouid the maister of ceremonies witnesseth in his Calender in these wordes It is an honor dew to soules and bodies that be dead To bring such giftes to yerksome graue as satisfye their mead The soules doe much delite therein and much the same doth craue By meanes whereoff themselues they thinke from Plutos force to saue With flowers greene and garlands gay their heads they doe adorne And wine and salt is put thereto with other fruites and corne Nor things of more waight I reproue For soules therein delight On graue say thou thy prayers then that ghostes may haue their right Wherevnto agréeth also the Dracle of Apollo speaking of the sacrifices of the infernall Gods and of the soules in these wordes The Gods vvich vvith their bodies black about the vvorld do fly Which also dayly sacrifice require incessauntly Iucense of Meale and salted fruites and also pleasaunt Cakes See that you make together mixt as daintie delicates For that cause they vsed in that time there to sette such meates vpon a. stpueâ—to the cude that the good scules and shadowes should come and banket there they called that banquet and supper that they made for them Silicernium bicause that the shadowes and the soules behold it in stlence They doe also call it Feralis Coena as wee may say the supper of the dead of which speaketh luuenal confirminge the thinges aboue spoken after thys manner In platters small the suppers they doe put â—oâ— bodies dead in lothsome graue layd vp And in like manner Persius speaking of him which consumed his goods foolishly The heire with wrathfull ire doth pine to see thy goods so spent Nor funerall feastes esteeme will he not made to his intent I doe thincke that Baruch did vnderstand by such suppers that which is written in hys booke of the Priestes of the Babilonians and Idolaters saying The Priestes sit in their temples hauing open clothes whose beades and beardes are shauen and haue nothinge vpon theire beades roaring and crying vpon their Gods as men doo at the feaste when one is dead Hee sheweth in sewe woordes the manner that the Idolaters had both in their diuine seruice for the Gods and the office of the dead Hillarius And what had they that wée haue not dooe not our Priestes roare and crye both after their Gods and after the dead may we not rightlye call their Masses of Requiem the supper of the dead For they haue all that which Baruch hath comprehended without faylinge one haire of ones head It may haue peraduenture some differâ—ce in that that the Masse is song in the morning Wherfore it should soeme more fitter to call it the draft of wine or the breakfast or dinner of the dead Thomas That which thou hast spoken to couer the able to the dâ—â—â— is vsed yet at this day of some who at the fense that is made when one is dead do leaue all night the Table couered and set full of meates béeing of that opinion that the soules do come thither to banket Theophilus Maister Iohn Belet witnesseth neuerthelesse in his booke that he made of the Legend of Saincts and feastes of all the yeare that the auncients haue ordeyned the feast of Sainct Peters chaire in February vppon suche a day as the Panyms accustomed to offer yearely Wyne and other meats vppon the Sepulchers of the dead and to banket them thinking that the soules and shadowes which passed by the Sepulchers would come eate Wherefore to abolishe that superstitious witked custome they haue constituted that that feast should be celebrated the which for that cause was called at the beginning the feast of Sainct Peter of meates bankets Hillarius And what haue they gayned by changing it The poore Christian people haue no profit by it and there is no gaine but for the Priests whiche in ste ede therof haue at this day their stones aulters vpon which they do lay their table clothes and afterwardes when the table is spread and couered wee must take care for the meates and pay the banket and yet neuertheles we cate nothing at all but are as the Panims which bring the supper to the dead afterwards they onely looke on them not daring to touch it which was also the one of the causes wherefore that banket was called Silicernium as witnesseth Donatus For they did thinke that whosoeuer did taste eate or drinke of that which was offered vnto the dead was polluted and defyled But our priestes feare not that For they themselues doe eate with they domestical Nimphes which beuoure and consume with them the reliefe which remayned for that soules For such Nymphes do take no lesse pleasure in sweete deheate meats then those of the Panims who would that one should offer vnto them wyne and â—ony as witnessoth the Oracle of Apollorsaying The Nymphes are glad and make good fare with hony and wine which pleasant are In steede of them wée haue those paliards whorehunters vnto whom we must offer vnder the title and name of the Soules who endeuour themselues so wel that nothing of the offrings remaineth although that that shadowes and soules diminish them nothing at al. For they baue not very great bellies except peradueÌ„ture there be dronkerds like vnto those of the bawde vnto when Propeise giueth the Requiescant in pace saying Thou slinking bavvde and filthy vvhore strumpet al forlornt Thy lothsome Tombe is ouer grone vvith sharpe pricking thorne Thy ghost ' is dry fore a thirst so vvill still remaine Against thy will it must be so vvhy should I to thee saine Thomas Yet neuertheles a man shall finde shadowes which do eate very well and which haue good teeth great bellies Hillarius If thou doe take the shadowes for those which come vnto the bankets not beeing byd with those which are the gestes I graunt vnto thée that such shadowes haue not the taste in the teeth nor liue not of the dewe as the Grashoppers or of the winde as the Camelion But the shadowes of which I speake are of another nature The auncients called those whom thou speakest off shadowes bicause that they follow and accompany those that are bidden as the shatowe solloweth and accompanieth the bodie and vnder coloure of them all though that they bee not called by him that maketh the banket do keepe neuerthelesse company with the gestes sit at the table with them After that sorte did Plutarch expounde it and Horace amonge the Latius hath often vsed it For when such shadowes are at the table they do effectually shew that they are not vaine emptie shadowes but of bodies altogether fat
that he was not worthy to be taken for a good souldier For a good champion must know to doo all thinges and that he must bée found amongest the blowes and in the skirmishes and alaromes not onely at the retraict and to receiue wages He dispised the simplicitie of the holy Scripture and calleth the Theology inferiour and base and would forge and inuent for vs a metaphisicall Theology Hillarius Also peraduenture he would by the same as wel extract the fifth essence of the holy Scriptures as the Alcumists do of mettals At the least I doubt not but that it will happen of his metaphisicall Theology as of the Alcumy which hath a faire shew to be of great value but it consumeth away into smoke He speaketh neuertheles against the Purgatory of Priestes Wherefore I am abashed of that which I haue heard spoken that at this present he endeuoureth himselfe to set it vpp againe in that poore towne of Metz y which he is gone to trouble when he vnderstood that Iesus Christ would raigne there But I greatly doubt that the kitchin constraineth him to the same For otherwise the harâ—th woulde be colde But hée may as well doe that as to be angry pleased againe and so many times to chaunge and rechaunge his coate Theophilus We may well make him such a monster as Eusebius Cesariensis did make of the Philosopher Archesilaus in his bookes of the preparation of the Gospell and to compare it to him of whom he writeth in these words They sayd of him that as touchinge his fore partes hée was Plato and as to the hinder partes Pyrro the middle Diodorus For he hath troubled and marred the eloquence of Plato thorow the subtilties and sophistries of the Philosopher Diodorus and by the subtile disputations of Pyrrho and now saying this by and by that he was easily rolled and lead now héere and now there as a man not knowing any thing and hauinge no rest And yet neuerthelesse he séemeth thorow the shadow of eloquence that he knoweth much he was neuer in that minde y he would say twice one thing and that hee woulde abide firme and steedfast in one opinion For hée estéemed not a man to be ingenious and wittie which preserued continued in one matter and doctrine And therefore he was called a cauiller sophister and troubler which knew nothing and would not y others should perceiue any thing He troubled euery one thorow his sophistries was as the serpent called Hydra which hath seauen heads But he cutteth them off with his owne swoord speaking agaynst gainsaying his owne Doctrine denying that whiche hee hath affirmed and destroyinge that whiche hee before hath buylded Hillarius It is impossible to painte him out better For he is as a Gerion with thrée bodies He is a Papist an Euangelist and a Lutherian He is a Sophister and a Sorbonist and yet he would be accompted for a faithfull and a Christian and holdeth himselfe neither to the one nor yet to the other Hydra had neuer so many heads as hée hath of opinions contrary the one to the other and hée néeded none other Hercules for to cut them off then himselfe For the truth which GOD hath compelled him to speake as vnto the wicked spiriâ—es is a Hercules sufficient inough for to vanquish the false doctrine that he now mainteineth Theophilus By the same thou maist know the studye of Sathan and how many wayes he transfigureth himselfe into an Angell of light and what is the nature of the false Prophets God by all his Prophets Apostles hath commended to vs the faith in him and the loue towardes the liuing without making any mention y we shuld haue care of the dead The Diuell to the contrarye by his false Prophetes and Apostles endeuoureth himselfe with all his power to drawe vs from the fayth vnto vayne Ceremonies and from the care that wée ought to haue of the liuinge and of the poore members of IESUS CHRIST which with vs doe suffer want and indigence for to make vs staye after the deade They bring them meat and drinke and suffer the poore Christian bretheren which are round about them to dye for hunger This miserable Doctor perceiuing that he could not ther where he was maintein the Purgatory of y Priests and their broiling of soules be would set vp a new Purgatory for the body But when he perceiued that he could not bring it about he is retourned to cary a coale to the same of the Priests for to heate it againe Wherein he manifestly declareth what faith and conscience he hath how much one ought to trust to his doctrine Hillarius Mée thinketh that he should haue no lesse appearance to build a Purgatory for the body then the Priestes to haue builded one for the soules For if there be any reason wherefore the soules ought to suffer for their sinnes after that man is dead me thinketh that the body ought not to bée quit and frée but that he hath more merited it bicause that he was the occasion thorow his flesh and the instrument for to make the soulé to sinne Wherefore if you thincke Eusebius that God should be vniust as thou hast alledged if he doe not punish the soules of the sinners in Purgatory he should be no lesse if he doe not punish the bodyes in lyke manner which haue ben alwayes companions instruments to the soules in all the sinnes that they haue committed And therefore God wil not onely punish the soules of the reprobate in hel fire but the bodies also euen as be will glorifie the elect in body and soule in the resurrection of the Iustes Theophilus Also this good Doctor would giue vs to vnderstand sithence y he hath entred into that dreaming that all the prayers which the Church made in the name of the dead were for the bodyes and for their resurrection and not for the soules and condempneth the Priestes and their Purgatory and be made no doubt to saye that we must pray for the Saintes for Saint Peter S. Paul and the others in such sence as he vnderstandeth euen as it hath bene touched Thomas I doe vnderstand well of whom you speake I remember that at the disputation which was holden at Lausanne he spake cléerely not onely against the Purgatory of Priestes but also against the transubstanciacion and corporall presence of Iesus Christ in the hoast Theophilus It is true but in the meane time thou takest no héede of the subtiltie of Sathan and by what means he would be serued of that Sorbonist doctors Bicause y Sathan did sée those errors to be already too much vncouered and opened that hée had no more hope to vphold them chiefely in those Churches héere aboutes hée hath chosen this instrument for to set foorth that opinion the which could not serue to any edification but for to trouble the Church chiefly in this time
that I haue forgotten the estate in which I haue bene and that I am vnthanckefull towardes Gods liberalitie and goodnesse who immediatlye from my youth béeing yet at the schooles hath drawen me from that labarinth of errour before that I was to much plunged in that Babilonical Antechrist and receyued the marke of the beast Neuerthelesse notwithstanding that it hath pleased God that that carecter and marke was not printed in my forehead to the which yet neuerthelesse A. prepared my selfe thincking that it was the right waye of saluation if the Lorde had not had pittie and compassion on mée who called mee vnto a better vocation yet I cannot therefore denie but that I haue bene sufficiently plunged and very déepe in that whore of Babilon aswell as others Although I haue not bene none of the gouernours and chiefest Eurgesses and Citizens of the same yet I haue bene of the meaner sort prepared for to bring foorth the fruites of confusion as the others dyd and so much the more that by Nature I was more giuen vnto religion the which yet neuerthelesse I knewe not following in steede thereoff all superstition Wherefore sithens that the Lord hath taken mée out I can not yet forget those that are detayned and kept therein And in remembring and considering the trayne of the newe Babilon it maketh me so remember a lawe and custome that the auncient Babilonians had the which is not altogether to be despised nor vnworthy to be remembred Before that Phisicke was yet brought into any perfect Aite and that there was not cunninge Phisitions for to practise it they dyd set downe a lawe by which they ordeyned that those which did begin to be sicke and diseased ought to go vnto those which sometime haue bene sicke with the same disease for to haue their aduice counsaile and for to learne by them the remedy which they vsed if they had proued any good and which were wel to be found And to the ende that that law should be the better kept they vsed to bring those that were sicke and diseased vnto the stréets and open places and those which sometime had bene sicke were bounde by the lawe to visite them and to teach vnto euery one of them the remedy by the which they were healed If then the Babilonians were so carefull of the sicke and diseased let vs thincke what reproche we shall haue of God if after that hée hath made vs féele his grace and hath giuen vnto vs the remedy not onely against all the diseases both of body and soule but also against the corporall and spirituall deathe we haue no pittie and compassion on our bretheren which are yet in the bedde of deathe and if we doe not showe vnto them the remedye that we haue learned of GOD and that we doe not bringe them vnto the highe and souereigne Phisition IESUS CHRIST His law and commaundement ought more to vrge vs then that of the Babilonians If he willed and commaunded that he that shall finde the Ore or the Asse of his neighbour going astray yea of his enemy to bring them to him againe or if he be fallen into a dyke or sinke vnder his burthen to helpe him out and vp againe do we thinke that he hath not yet more care of man then of a beast of the soule more then of the body Doth he not giue vs sufficieÌ„tly to vnderstand by that commaundement in what recommendacion we ought to haue our neighbours and what care we ought to take of their soules and health sith that he bindeth vs by his commaundement to take the care and charge of his Asse I then considering the great darkenesse abuses and errours which haue occupyed and filled all the Christianitie séeing so many scrupulous doubtfull and troubled consciences and so many diseases of which euery stréete place and all the worlde is full would not despise them without teaching them some remedy for to comfort them at the least a lyttle if I cannot doe much chiefly for that I haue bene required of many good men which doe feare God. It is very true that one shall finde men inough which will promise remedyes for such diseases but he shall not finde many which haue well proued and tryed that which they teach vnto others For many men sometime wyll meddle or take vppon them to heale others which haue more néede of a medicine then those vnto whome they would giue it and there are more Phisicions then diseases And although I will not glorye nor boaste my selfe to be very able and cunning in that matter yet neuerthelesse I will not hyde that lyttle talent which the LORDE hath giuen vnto mée I am not ignorant but that the Lord hath raysed vp in these our dayes learned men which haue already very well declared and opened those obscure and darke places of which so many poore consciences are troubled after whome I am not worthy to carry their bookes but doe estéeme it a greate benefite of GOD to haue bene their disciple and scholler and by their meanes to haue vnderstanded GODS truth although that many bookes haue bene alreadye made and set foorth in our countrey by diuers learned for to discouer the abuses and for to put agayne the woorde of GOD in his honour according as our Sauiour IESUS CHRIST instituted it Neuerthelesse I haue yet thought that my lyttle labour shall not be altogether vayne and vnprofitable towards a great many of my bretheren and countrimen especially towards some for many causes First bicause that the most parte of those which haue written of diuinitie haue heterto written in the Latine tougue the whiche is not to be vnderstood of all men and especially of the poore ignoraunt people which haue more néede of playne doctrâ—e and consolation Wherefore it is good that such matters which doe touch and conserne our health and saluation be manifested and sette foorth in all languages to the ende that those which do not vnderstande the one may be instructed by the other For it is all one what language one speaketh vnto vs so that we vnderstand him and that we may be well instructed in the will of God and in all things necessary vnto our saluation For God regardeth not the languages but onely the thing to which all languages ought to serue Then euen as those who doe wryte in a language which is most common to euery Nation and by which they may instruct and teach not onely those of their countrey but also of straunge countreys are worthy of great prayse So I doe iudge them worthy to be blamed and not worthy to be accounted for christian men to occupy themselues so much to teach the most wisest and best learned and those which are so farre seperated from vs and that the poore ignoraunt and those of the house should hée despised and should féele nor receiue any fruite One might rightly rebuke and checke vs Phisition heale thy selfe And that we doe not
then to reade in the holye Scriptures the which they dare not touch Or if they desire some time to drincke of it that is as the dogge doth at the floud Nilus They doe but sucke in the water hastely as though they were afrayde to touch it and that there were in it Crocodiles They wyll touch it as a Cat doth hotte coales I doe not condemne the reading of good Authours and of Poets Oratours and Philosophers the which may serue vs to the glorie of God if first of all we be well instructed in the Christian religion But I can not allowe but greatly condempne those whiche altogeather gyue themselues vnto suche Authours or to others a greate deale worse and make none accompte of the holy Bible and diuine bookes to which all other Sciences and disciplines ought to serue and to whiche they ought to be preferred Shall we not iudge him a foole out of his wyt which will alwayes staye in his Grammer and in the principles and rules of the same and despyse the studye of other liberall Artes and of Philosophie and wyll in no wyse meddle wyth them nor exercise himselfe in speakinge nor yet in writinge fearinge to forget and lose those rules and groundes of Grammer Who wyll not iudge such a man to bee madde sith that the Grammer yea the Rethoricke whatsoeuer prayse that Cicero giueth vnto it And the Logicke also are not but as handmaydens and seruauntes vnto other disciplines the whiche men doe learne for to serue vnto them Wée doe nowe mocke the barberous schole masters which wee haue had which coulde reade vnto vs but doctrinall of Alexander and doe holde vs therein all our lyfe time wythout letting vs at any time taste any good Authour insomuch that one shall neuer haue done but the thing is alwayes to beginne agayne Those some vnto me not to differ much from them For notwithstanding that they doe reade better Authours and that they doe exercise themselues to speake and wryte better Yet Neuerthelesse I esteeme not all that which they doe no more then the Grammer of Alexander or as Grecismus and Roiolis and the Logicke of Tartaret and of other Sophisters except they make all their skill and knowledge to the honour and glorye of GOD and if they mynde it vnto anye other marke or ende For otherwise whereto shall all their science and eloquence serue but to the Panims and people without God the which is more hurtfull and daungerous then profitable to the common wealth in hym which hath not the feare of God and which is not well instructed in the Christian doctrine And when they haue studyed all their lyfe time to beautifie and 〈◊〉 foorth theyr language I thincke yet neuerthelesse that a man shall not finde many amonge them which can come vnto such perfection by the which they may approch so néere vnto Gicero as that seditious Catiline who was very eloquent But when they doe surmount Demosthenes may not wee rightly â—ay that of them which Eschines hath sayd of him comparing him vnto a flute which hath but the beak of bil the which is vnprofitable after that the necke is cut off What is there also in these héere but the tongue The which oftentimes hurteth many and profiteth fewe Is not a poore labourer which knoweth his God and Iesus Christ his Sauiour and which confesseth him in his rude language and which honoureth him through his good life and conuersation to be preferred before all these greate Poets Orators and Philosophers who are altogether ignoraunt and which doe serue but the flesh the world and Sathan Prince of the same Are not they great Asses and beastes in comparison of him and yet worse For the Oxe knoweth his Lord and an Asse his Masters stall as sayth the Prophet the which those here which will bée counted for true Israelits Gods people and Christians wil not acknowledge nor serue hym dooing vnto him so much honour as the Oxe the Asse doe vnto their Masters How dare they esteeme themselues wyse beeing ignoraunt of the knowledge of God the which onely is the true knowledge for to bringe vs vnto euerlasting blessednesse in comparison of which all other which are called sciences are but mennes opinions errours and lyinges excepte they haue this for a guyde It is very harde to finde for such men mediciues proper to heale them and meate for to make them haue an appetite sith that they are so farre out of tast with the bread of lyfe and the heauenly Manna to the which they preferre the garlicke onyons the flesh and fishes of Aegypt For he that shall giue them such meate as they desire shall but encrease their griefe the greater And if the meate bée not as they woulde haue it they will not tast of it Wherefore I leaue such to bée handeled of those which haue more cunninge then I and which can better helpe their disease There are others which differ but a little from these héere and which care not so muche of the language but they haue yet a greate vice common with the first that is that they delite not in reading any good matter graue and whiche toucheth Gods woorde and the health of their soules but vnto worldly thinges delectable to the flesh pernicious and hurtfull to the spirite and conscience And therefore although that many good men haue written in French very learnedly and in a good language touching the matters of our Religion yet neuerthelesse that sorte of people cannot applye themselues to reade those good bookes and can take no taste of them bicause that their mouthe is not fitte for such meate and that they are to precious for them For the â—doriseraunt and sweete flowers smell not so swéete in the hogges noses as the myre and durte For that cause suche carnall men take more pleasure and delite in the bookes that speake their language But the thinge is more detestable to women whiche delite to reade â—ookes of bawdry and whoredome For they vnderstande them the better bycause they are of the earth and doe speake of earthlye matters and cannot comprehende the celestiall language bycause it is not naturall vnto them Nowe such bookes as they desire are not wanting vnto them For there are ynough of fooles bables throughout the worlâ—e which doe serue but for seoffing and testing and which haue no other care and applye their studie but to please men and to nourishe theyr vaine curiositie louinge better to speake pleasaunt thinges then salutary and to delyte the fleshe and the eares more then to edifie the conscience Yet thys was one of the causes whiche moued me to write and procéede after an other manner then those whiche haue written before mée For I consider that many doe leaue off to reade them not onely bicause it is forbidden in many Countreys kingedomes and Segmories to reade good bookes whiche speake of GOD
suffering yet neuerthelesse the others which doe induce but to dishonour and blasphemye But also bicause that although that it bée permitted vnto many to reade them yet neuerthelesse they doe make none account of them bycause that eyther they séeme vnto them very obscure and so wayghtye that they cannot well vnderstande them or the tyme to longe and take no pleasure to reade bookes whiche haue not some merrye conceytes and delites for to make them pastyme For they are yet to carnall and finde no pastime in those bookes whiche speake but of GOD and of the health of the Soule if there bée nothing for the fleshe the which they woulde onely keepe There is no doubte but that malady or dysease is very perillous and that suche vicious and corrupt Natures doe very muche displease GOD sith that they haue so lyttle reuerence of him and hys woorde and that they preferre the poyson before the good meate Neuerthelesse bycause that amongest suche one maye yet finde some whiche are not altogeather peruerse and malicyous but that they haue yet some seede of the feare of the LORDE in them mée thinckes that wee muste not altogeather dyspayre and abanoon them as sicke folke that are incurable but that we must yet proue to winne them if it bee possible and to transfigure and chaunge them into al formes and shapes for to induce them to reade the holy Scriptures and to giue vnto them some tast For if we can conuert into good vses the meanes by the which the Diuell gyueth himselfe to drawe away man from the word of God and to robbe him altogether and holde him in the vanities of this worlde and may vse them as a baite on a hooke for to draw them from such vanities and to incitate and prouoke them to the studye of the truth me thincketh that wée doe nothing vnworthy of the office of a Christian man For euen as the holy Apostle hath bene made all vnto all men and doth applye and giue himselfe vnto euery one in all that which was possible for him without béeing against the will of God making himselfe a Iew vnto the Iewes and a Gentile vnto the Gentiles So me thinketh y by good right I may doe the lyke so that I do not altogether forget the Christian modestie and the honour and reuerence that the Christian oweth vnto the woorde of god For if the bawdes of Sathan endeuour themselues through faire and goodly delites and merry conceites to destroy the poore and silly soults the espowses of Iesus and to drawe them away from him for to make them serue him and to forsake their master shall it not be lawfull for vs to vse an other practise and cunning for to let theirs for to discouer and vnhide their filthinesse for to make them appeare to be abhomination to all the world and to retire and drawe backe the soules from his stewes for to ioyne them agayne with Iesus Christ their Sauiour If a paysoner doe couer and hide his poison with some delicate meate for to poison and murther men shall it not be by more iust reason peruntted to a Phisiâ—ion to mingle suger and hony amonge the wormewoode and the bitter Aleos for to sweeten a little the bitternesse of these drinckes Which notwithstanding that they are bitter in the mouth are yet neuerthelesse healthfull to the boote For if such holy deceits are worthy of praise to the Phisitions of the body wherefore shal it be despised to the Phisitions of the soules I would to GOD that he had giuen vnto vs the grace to deceiue so all the worlde for his profite and health For the diseased is happie which is deceiued by the Phisition to his health and healing which is the ende to the which both the one and the other doe pretende both the Phisition and the diseased I know very well that there bée already many bookes written which doe muche discouer abuses and which doe sufficiently mocke the vaine ceremonies idolatries and superstitions which are amonge the Christians but that sufficeth not except one doe teach what is the veritie and what is a firme and sound doctrine The which many haue already done but bicause they séeme and appeare too seuere and graue vnto those with whom wée haue chiefly to doe they reade them not and doe profit nothing There are others which haue followed a manner to write altogether contrary vnto those For euen as those haue regard to none other thing but to entreate of the woorde of God with all grauitie modestie and reuerence adressinge their writinges vnto people of good iudgementes and of temperate sences and full of the feare of GOD These héere vnto the contrary haue not taken their sight but to the white and marke of mans vanitie and curiositie and haue purposed to absteme themselues from all waightie honest and holy matters and to write onely of follyes merry conceites iestes playes and pastimes as of fooles morishdauncers scoffers and iesters And if they woulde holde themselues within those limits they were the more tollerable But many are not content to playe the fooles amongest men although that that office is scant méete vnto an honest man doe yet worse For they giue themselues but to scurrilitie and doe thincke that they cannot sufficiently inough delite men except their deuice bée altogether full of ruffenly talke and bawdry of vilanies and blasphemies not onely intollorable to the Christians but which shoulde bée iudged woorthy of grieuous punishmentes amongest the Iewes Turkes Panims and Infidels For if the Gentiles and Panims haue not taken and accompted for honest men and worthy to bée aduaunced into anye honourable office in a common wealth the Morishdauncers Maskers Iuglers Players Mummers and Iesters what honour is that vnto Princes and vnto Christian people to take delyte not onelye in such men with their bookes but in others a great deale more detestable and more ruder in all filthy and vyle woordes as the ruffians of the stewes and denyers of god Doe wée thincke that Iesus Christ hath sayde wythout a cause that for euery idle woorde that men shall speake they must render accompt at the day of iudgement Sith that the trueth which lyeth not telleth vs the same so cléerely and doth meanace and threaten that wee muste render an accompt for euery idle word that is to say which is vaine and vnprofitable whiche serueth nothing at all to the glorie of GOD nor to any edifyinge of our neighbour Doe wée thincke that our ribalde and bawdye talke backebitings euill speakings vnaduised slaunderous and infamous woordes which doe serue to none other ende but to peruerte the vnderstandings of men to adde or heap euil vpon euil to cast oyle into the fire and to bring towe the better to inflame mans conscience vnto all wickednesse and abhomination and vnto the which it is alreadie too muche inclined Doe wée thincke that suche languages shall not come to an accompte and that
they shall not bée a reproche vnto vs and brought before our eyes at the iudgement of GOD Were it not better for vs to followe the admonition which the holy Apostle taught vs saying Let your speach bée alwayes well sauoured and powdered with salte that yée maye knewe howe to aunswere euery man Let no filthy communication proceede out of your mouthes but that which is good to edifie wythall when néede is that it maye haue fauour with the hearers And grieue not the holy spirite of GOD by whome yée are sealed vnto the daye of redemption Let not fornication and all vncleanenesse or couetousnesse bée once named amonge you as it becomneth Sainctes neyther filthinesse neither foolishe talkinge neither iestinge which are not comely but rather giuinge of thanckes Beholde the lesson whiche the Doctour of the Gentiles giueth vnto the Christians for to learne them howe they ought to speake the which many haue very euill studied and kept For by their woordes and writinges they profite to none other ende but to infect and poyson the soules and to hinder a great many of good spirites to read better bookes and more profitable for their health and saluation For man cannot bée idle and excepte that hée dyd finde foolishe and wicked bookes for to applye therein his studye hée should bée constrayned to séeke better and to occupie therein altogether his minde wythout any detraction vnto vnprofitable thinges I knowe very well that one maye vppon this replye that such men in playinge and iestinge doe discouer the abuses of the worlde But it is better not to remoue and discouer them then to discouer and blowe them abroade after such a sorte For by that manner of dooing they may rather make of a superstitious and an hipocrite a man wythout GOD and wythout Religion then a good religyous and holye man. For notwythstandinge that they doe shewe foorth the follye of men and that which ought not to bee yet neuerthelesse they shewe not that which ought to bée and what is the true wisdome and the remedy for to redresse such diseases It is very easie to mock and scoffe at lyings and to shew that which is not but it sufficeth not ercept one doe shewe the trueth and what it is It sufficeth not to knowe Antechriste excepte wée knowe Iesus Christ That is to teach after the manner as Cicero desputed of the Nature of the Gods the which is more proper for to shewe that which is not God then who is god Such manner of dooing bringeth no resolution to the conscience but leaueth it alwayes in doubte and errour And although those shall doe no worse yet that shal be some thing and they shall not altogether lose their time for that they haue incitated and pricked men forwarde and put a desire in them to inquire of the truth for to knowe it For that is no little profit nor no little aduauntage that they haue already brought it to that pointe But these héere of whom I doe speake doe not follow the stile I say not of some good diuine nor onely of some good Panim Philosopher but doe séeme that they are altogether giuen to the immitation of Lusian a man without God and without Religion a mocker and despiser of God and men If it bée a matter to pastime to laugh play and iest at the superstitions and idolatries of to deuoute men caphardes and hipocrites and of all the estates of the world we néede not search for none other Authour and wée haue no néede of these new Lusianistes which are but as his little Disciples for to carrie his booke after him For if wée must make comparison of the language they approch nothinge néere to his eloquence If wée must compare the spirite and the knowledge there is as much difference as is betwéene the apprentice and the Maister Wherefore if the writinges of Lusian and the matters that be entreated off were very profitable and necessary vnto those whiche could not reade them in the Greeke tongue or béeinge translated into the Latine tongue I woulde counsaile rather his Disciples to trauayle and employ their eloquence to translate them in the French tongue then to forge and inuent for vs newe Lusians which doe but steale from him his inuentions and arguments for to attribute them vnto themselues as if they had bene the first Authours and inuâ—utours For howe wicked so euer hée hath bene and enemie to GOD and all Religion yet wée cannot deme but that he was a wise man a great Oratoure and a Philosopher and that he hath written many good thinges a greate deale better then those do here of which the faithful man may wel profit so that he read them after an other spirit intention then he hath written them that he do know to try the gold from the midst of the drosse to seperate the poyson from the good meate but those whom I rebuke doe teach nothing which can serue to the honour and glory of God nor vnto good manners nor to the edification of the congregation nor to ciuilitie nor to the knowledge of naturall humaine nor diuine thinges but to playe the foole and to iest with all the worlde and to moeke and despise aswell the true Christian religion as the superstitions and abhominations of Antechrist For if they would speake one honest woorde it must be accompanied with fiftie vnhonest woordes If they doe set foorth the truth it must bée that it be alwaies enuironed with a thousand infamies and slaunders as of Damoisels and body kéepers for to hide defend countergarde that it be not taken vncouered Howe much can that manner of writing speaking profite For the prayer of the truth is simple would not haue such couertures and cloaks but would walke open and vncouered â–ª And if wée haue compassion of the ciuyle and imperiall lawes bycause that they béeinge goodly in themselues are dishonored by the hemme of those gloses filthes of Bartolus and barbarous writers What may we say of the truth so noble a daughter of the eternall king accompanied with Damoisels so stincking vile and dissormed with so many filthinesse which doe marre and take from hir hir beautie And to replie that it is not sure and wythout daunger to speake truth in any other manner I doe aunswere to the same that hée were â—etter to holde his peace altogether then to preach it after such sort and that it shoulde bee better not to giue meate vnto a man then to giue him poyson for to kill him Wherefore all thinges compted and reckenned I knowe not howe one can conclude any other thing of such doctryne but that the Authours thereoff doe gyue occasion vnto those which haue any feare God to account them for Lucianistes And vnto those which haue nothing or a very little to pull them away altogether and to make them recule goe backe from the truth more then they were As dayly
them for suche as they are and they must not any more spare them sith that they woulde waxe worse and empaire if one shoulde kéepe them and the more that one doth thincke to make them méeke and gentle in flattering them they become the more sauage wilde and madde And therefore I thincke that those that are of a good iudgement and which doe consider the thinges according to the truth shall bée constrained to confesse that I flatter to much Although that I doubt not but that one shal finde some which may say of me that which is sayd commonly of the Asse which woulde play wyth his master as hée did sée the dogge doe strikinge him and leaping vpon hym with his féete I am very sure that such playes and games doe not please the king of Babilon and his court and that they will not haue suche Apes excepte they bée otherwise apparelled then that poore Asse was For they haue not accustomed that those little Ladyes dogges which make them sporte and wagge the tayle and which are learned and taught to runne and leape on the Ladyes and Gentlewomen and those pleasaunt Apes and Marmesettes for to make them pastime But the LORD wyll haue none other Apes in his Church then such dullardes as the world iudgeth them which doe playe and iest earnestly and doe goe as they doe intende in all simplicitie without dissemblinge that which ought not to bée dissembled Hée will not haue such lyttle pleasaunt dogges for to bée a delite and pleasure vnto Ladyes but woulde haue good Mastyes and great greyhoundes which are not to be carryed in the sléeue but for to barke and driue awaye the Wolfe from the folde Wherefore if there bee men whiche in laughinge doe bite they doe giue vs to vnderstande that they take no great pleasure by such playes and pastimes but that they woulde haue other pastime and occasion to speake of better matters Yet neuerthelesse they doe shew vnto those which doe loue the pastyme and which take pleasure in them as Democritus hath laughed and scoffed at the follies and dreames of men that it is not nowe néede that they doe séeke any other matter The courte of Antechrist gyueth them ynough and most worthyest to laugh at and in the which one maye better iest wythout offending GOD if one doe it wyth such affection and such modestie as is in these Dialogues Those also which shall bée totter and seuere and which as Heraclitus doe iudge the follies and miseries of men more worthy of wéepinges and lamentations then of laughings and iestinges they shall haue héere matter ynoughe to wéepe séeing the iudgement of GOD which hath bene and is yet vpon the Christian people bicause of our sinnes and despisinge of his woorde Insomuch that me thinckes that I haue not written any thing which may bring hurt vnto the Christian religion And though I doe not profite very much yet neuerthelesse there wanted in mée no wyll Wherefore I doe trust that the good men will take all in the beste parte whome onely I feare to offende If the wycked are angrye wythout a cause I will leaue them for such as they are yet I speake neuerthelesse the veritie although they will not take it If the wise and learned cannot much profit it is sufficient for me that the poore ignoraunt people should receiue some fruite Although that such a one doe thincke himselfe very wise and learned that he may yet finde some thing for to learne It is very true that that matter requireth better to be intreated off in Latine then in french For it conteineth things which would haue ben plainer which would haue bene entreated off more briefly the which peraduenture I may be rebuked for ouermuch prolixitie tediousnes But there are many reasons which are the cause The first is for that I am one of those Oratours which know not to enter in talke or begin any matter nor which know not howe to leaue off The second bicause that I doe write most of all for the ignorant and rude people for whom we had néed to chew their meates a little and to declare the matters more grosly y which they cannot vnderstand in one word as those that are wise learned which wil comprehend it very easily as those which haue read the Authours out of whome I haue taken the matter Therefore there is yet an other reason that is that I must vse great circumlocutions and narrations for to expresse and declare that which in Latine or in Greeke myght bee spoken in one woorde For the things are more harde vnto those which haue not read the Greeke and Latine authours But I haue tolde alreadye the causes which haue moued mée to write rather in this language then in an other And if the matter bee worthy to bée put in the Latine tongue if it please the Lorde it may bée done at leasure or it maye moue the heart of some which will do it better Be it as it is it is to mée sufficient so that I doe serue a little the good If I doe offende the Hipocrites I would be contented that they bée offended with mée so that they doe finde better tast in all the other which haue spoken and written of the relygion a great deale better then I and so that they haue them in such honour and reuerence as they ought to haue Also I thinke that none shall finde vnfitte for the matter many of the histories of our time the which I haue set in and mingled among these matters For if it be lawfull to alleage the auncient historyes written by others wherefore should we not speake of that which is done in our time when occasion serueth Sith that so many things do come dailye more worthy of remembraunce then many of those which the auncients haue written Wherefore I haue not estéemed and thoughte that to bée a thinge inconuenient nor vnworthy of remembraunce which we our selues and our fathers are witnesses Also I haue put the quotations of the authours in the margents out of whome I haue taken that which I haue alleaged to the ende it should not appeare that I haue inuented them of mine owne head aswell of the Philosophers Poets Historiographers as Doctors Questionaries Sophisters as of the auncient Doctors of the Church and holy Scriptures FINIS ¶ THE ARGVMENT AND SVMME of the first Dialogue IN this first part and first Dialogue I doe amply entreat of the matters which concerne those that be deceased declaring the errours abuses superstitions which are committed about them and the false and diuerse opinions which haue bene and yet are among men aswel touching the estate of the bodies as of the soules And of hell Limbus patrum and of Purgatorie And how that which the supersticious Christians do about the dead is nothing at all lyke vnto the woord of God but is altogether taken of the Infidells Panims And for to
I haue not found any so skilfull and of such habilitie who can bound and lymitte so perfectly the landes as our preacher to day hath lymitted and bounded out hell Limbus patrum and Purgatory As far as I can perceiue he knoweth in what clymate they are how many degrées miles and places the one is from the other of what side they are all scituated and placed whether they bée on the Cast West North or South Hillarius You take not the matter amâ—â—se But you must not be abashed if he and such as he is doe take so great paynes to bound and lymitte so perfectly those places and chiefely Purgatorie For they haue no better possession then this which yéeldeth vnto them more profite and gaine nor of which they receiue and gather vp more rents and reuenues There is no realme Lordship lande nor heritage which bringeth more profite to their Lords owners then Purgatory doth bring vnto them Wherefore it is no maruayle if they doe feare so much to loose it and that their bounds and lymits shoulde be transported or changed any other where Ptolomus and many other wise and excellent Geographers are estéemed to be very well learned aswell among the Greekes as the Latines But I thinke that among all those there is not one which in his Geography hath at any time so wel painted and described the earth with all the parts thereoff countryes and regions as this our Doctor hath described and drawen out before our eyes these low parts and inseruall regions Thomas By that we may know or at the least presume that he speaketh not onely by heare say but that he hath bene there in proper person or â—ls hath had some expert teacher in that Geography For I doe sée that the best Geographers and the most cumming Cosmographers doe faile oftentimes in the description of the earth and of many countryes and regions which are most familier to vs and of which they may haue greatest and most certeyne experience Hillarius Without séeking any further we may try it in the French Cardes or Maps There is not almost a country better knowne then Fraunce neuerthelesse we sée oftentimes great errours in those Cardes in the which it is described Wherefore wée may well thincke that it maye so chaunce in other tables mappes and cardes conteminge the description of heauen and earth and of the regions and countryes vnknowne Thomas I doubt not at all but that this Monke hath the spirite for to compose and make a table and Mappe of these low countryes better then the paynters haue paynted them out in the temples or the Printers in the Shepheards CaleÌ„ders And therfore I desire very much to speke with him For I haue taken in hande a iourney in the which he may helpe mée For I hope that eyther he will shewe mee some good way or els satisfie mée in such sorte that peraduenture I shall saue the iourney and charges Hillarius What voyage is that which you haue taken vppon you will you goe into Sicily Thomas What to doe in Sicily Hillarius To descend into hell For I cannot vnderstand any other thing by your talke forasmuch as you enquire after that Monke to accomplish and ende your voyage I thinke you will haue him for your guyde to conduct you in that daungerous voyage euen as Circe â—uyded Vlysses to bring him to the speach of Elpenor and Sybilla Aeneas to conduct and bring him vnto the speache of his father Anchises Thomas I thinke you are eyther a Prophet or a Diuine you haue hitte the naâ—â—e on the heaâ—e you haue not erred a whit from the matter â—ut to what purpose speake you vnto mée of Sicily Is there any hauen or any entrye place or denne to descende into those infernall and obscure horrible and most darkesome countryes Hillarius What meane you to make all this circumstaÌ„ce questionings you make it so strange as though you had neuer heard it spoken off before Ther is nothing more common in the Poeticall Theologie Thomas You alleage vnto mee a goodly diuinitie I haue nothing to doe with the Poets nor with their fables and faynings Is it not well knowne that they be inuented of pleasure and there is no truth in them but that they are most euident lyes Hillarius If you so lyttle esteeme the testimonye of the Poets I thinke you will not despise altogether the vulgar common opinion which hath continued and endured so long time and moreouer doth confirme it Thomas You bring mée into a faire land and alleage vnto mée a testimony worthy of credite for confirmation of the other to set mée ouer vnto the common people there is nothing more vnconstant more foolish more mutable nor more ready to beléeue all lyes fables and follyes Hillarius I thinke y yet at the least wise you wil not reiect the testimony of that holy man Odillo Abbot of the Monks of Cluny and of many orher Monkes very deuout which haue followed him Thomas It may be that when I shall heare his opinion eyther I will allow it or disallow it What sayth hée Hillarius Peter of Amiens hath written that in the time of Pope Iohn the viij About a thousande yeares after the death and passion of Iesus Christ Odillo was in Sicily and bicause that he heard oftentimes the noyse cryes and bewaylings which were made continually about that burning hill Aetna called of the Italians at this day Gibello monte did thinke it came from the Diuells lamenting that the soules of the faythfull deceased were deliuered from torments through the masses vigiles prayers sacrifices and offrings of the Christians And therfore he incontinent declared the same to his Monkes and they all decréed together that after they had offered their offerings the first day of Nouember and celebrated the feaste of Saints in the honour of all Saints they would in lyke manner the next day beeing holyday make prayers and â—risons for the soules of all the faythfull deceased Afterwarde in succession of time others receiued and allowed that manner of doing as good and holy Thomas What reason had they to imagine that those cryes mourninges came of the lamentations that the Diuels made Hillarius I cannot vnderstand that it hath had any other reason or foundation then the Poets and the common people to thincke that there was a place there to descende into hell and the place in which the soules of the wicked were tormented for their sinnes bicause that in that same mountaine there is a perpetuall fire which alwaies burneth and hath done so of long time Wherefore they haue thought that y damned were kept in those great burning goulfes By this same reason was Odillo and his Monkes moued and were the Authours that the Christians gaue themselues to celebrate feastes and make sacrifiees for the dead in the month of Nouember euen as the heathen Romaines did commonly vse
And if that sufficeth not we sope them or put them in the bucke and bucke them or els delyuer them to the scourers for to take out the steyne Also if we haue mettall that is rusty and canckred which hath néede to be made cleane we cast it in the fire which maketh it very cleane and consumeth the drosse and rust and other false mettall and seperateth it from the pure and fine mettall Hillarius Thereby you maye knowe that the Poets haue had more witte and reason and better colour so to do then the Priestes For they haue considered the nature of the sinnes and of the sinners together as a good Phisition doth behold the completion of those that are sicke for to giue vnto euery one a conuenient and sit remedy for his disease For they haue regarde that mans bodye was made of the foure Elements and that the completion and the affections of man doe follow the temperatnesse of the body and the nature of the elements of which they were made Forasmuch then as the body is the house and habitacion of the soule that the soule hath bene holden within that earthly body as in a prison and darke dungeon it is impossible but that it is corrupted and defiled with the filthinesse of that infectious body as he which shall depart out of an infectious and stincking prison And therefore Plato and the other Philosophers and Poets which followed his opinion haue thought that the soules had néede of some purgation after that they were seperated from the body bicause that after their departing it was impossible but that they should carry with them and kéepe some filthinesse of that corrupt flesh bicause of the coniunction conuersation and familiaritie that they had together Neuerthelesse bicause that the bodyes are not all of one complexion but according to the disposition and temperatenesse of the elements of which they are made some are more earthely and other some more heauenly according to the doctrine that they haue receiued and the exercise that they haue had in vertue some more vicious or vertuous then the others Euen so haue they estéemed and thought that the soules did differ according to the difference of the bodies from which they came out They haue then considered that there are some sinnes that are more thin easie lighter then others holding more of the nature of the ayre and of the winde then of the earth And therefore they must purge them by the element which approcheth néerest to their nature and which séemeth for them the best remedie The others that are more heauy and wayghtie as the water is more heauyer and wayghtyer then the ayre and winde are washed in the water For they doe holde most of the nature of the water And therefore they put them in the bucke wherein they driue beat and wash them very cleane Besides those there are other more wayghtyer and heauyer and altogether earthlye whome neyther the wyndâ— nor the water can make cleane And therfore y Soules that haue ben so defiled with y filthinesse of their vile wicked body so much giuen vnto y pleasures of y body that they are almost degenerated become earthly are purged by the fire For thei haue néede of a hotter stronger elemeÌ„t for to purifie them and for to consume all filthe and drosse that there remayne nothing but the pure mettall of the celestiall nature For contraries are healed by contraries But least you should thinke that I am the authour and inuentour of that Philosophie and that I speake these thinges of mine owne head and for my profite behold how the Poet speaketh in whose verses you shal finde comprised in few words a great part of that Platonicall Plutarchall Theologie where he writeth of the soules seperated from the body after this manner MOreouer when their end of lyfe and lyght doth them forsake Yet can they not their sins nor sorrows all poore souls of shake Nor all contagions fleshly from them voydes but must of neede Much things cogeÌ„dred long by wondrous means at last out spread Therefore they plagued bene and for their former faults and sins Their sundry paynes they bide som hye in ayre doth hang on pins Some fleeting bene in flouds deepe in gulfs themselues they tire Till sinnes away be washt or cleansed cleere with purging fire Each one of vs our penaunce heere abydes then sent we bee To Paradise at last we fevv fields of ioy doe see Till compasse long of time by perfect course hath purged quite Our former cloddred spots and pure hath left our ghostly spirite And sences pure of soule and simple sparkes of heauenly lyght Thomas I doe thinke that the Alcumistes haue taken theire foundacion vppon that Philosophieâ— For that is the true manner for to extract the fifte essence But I thinke that those Phisiciens of the soules had néede to sée their vrine for to make them better know their complexion and to giue vnto them the medicine and purgation méete for the same Hillâ—â—ins It should be then néedefull that the Soules that are in Hell and in Purgatorye shoulde aswell haue Esculapius or Cosme and Daiman for their Phisitious as the Gods and Saints haue in heauen and by a better reason For the Gods and the Saints haue no more néede neither of medicine nor of purgation as the poore soules haue that are kept in Purgatory I know not how the auncient Poets and Painims haue gyuen vnto Mercury the office of Phisicke for to practice his medicines in Hell with which hée guideth the soules for to make them to passe ouer the floudes by Charon the ferry man For he had bene very méete and proper for the soules Thomas But when they shall haue a Phisition who shall bée their Poticary for to make their drouges Hillarius The Priestes which haue their shops full and are better furnished with them then euer the Panims were which had chiefly thrée sortes of drougs for the purgacions as well of the quicke as the dead the which Ouid hath comprehended in thrée woordes saying Three times the olde man vvashed vvas vvith Water faire cleere And vvith hot fire and Sulphur strong he purged doth appeare Besides these purgations of the water fire brimstone they had also their holy winnowinges or faminges which they vsed chiefly at the feastes and sacrifices of God Baccus the which they made with a fanne consecrated for that pourpose Theophilus Beholde the dreamings wherein men doe fall yea the most wisest when they gyue themselues to play the Philosopher with heauenly things after their owne fantasie and minde without the spirite of God and that they doe séeke the purgation of their sinnes in their purgatories besides Iesus Christ Thomas Mée thinckes that wée doe yet reteine almost all those customes For wée doe light and offer torches tapers and candels of Waxe as well for the dead as for those
that are aliue And the first thing that we must haue when one dyeth are the torches to leade hym to hye graue And all the yeare after wée must haue Candels lighted vpon his Sepulcher and after to offer them vnto the Priestes Hillarius It is bicause they sée not Thomas Whom do you meane the Priests or those that bée dead Hillarius Both the one the other We cannot deny but that the dead bodyes haue lost their sight that they are in darkenesse as touching their body But neuerthelesse the shining and brightnesse of the torches serueth them to no pourpose I thincke also that the soule hath no neede of them For if it goe into Paradise it hath the Angels to carry it thether as the soule of Lazarus was carryed by the Angels into Abrahams bosome For that hath light inough and the Angels also wyth the brightnesse of god Wherefore they haue not to doe wyth our light that cannot serue for the soule but for the body onely If the soule goe into hell there are guides inough for to bring it thether and it is not nowe necessary that we do giue light to it It hath the Angels of Sathan altogether contrarie to the other Angels to carry it thether Thomas But if it go into Purgatory for that it is so déep hath it no néede of light for to conduct them through those darke places Hillarius If that which they saye bée true there is fire inough without putting any more vnto it And if that fire bée not sufficient for them I thincke that the light of our torches cannot giue light there For if the Sunne beames and his brightnesse cannot enter and pearce through what may wée hope of our fire You may then vnderstande by these reasons that all these lights serue nothinge at all for the dead nor profite them neither for the body nor yet the soule It must be then that they doe profite the Priestes or els it is a lost labour But wherein can they serue for them For if they bee blinde and that the Sunne light helpeth them not no more shall they see by the illumination of the torches and candels If they doe see cléere inough they haue no néede for the cléerenesse of the Sunne ought to suffice them except they buryed them in the nyght as the Panims dyd bury the poore that had not money to pay for their funerall pompe Thomas It must then bée that they are eyther madde out of their wyt or els that they would shew by the same that those that do such things are fooles and depriued of all vnderstanding Hillarius I thincke that they would do as Diogenes did who at noone dayes lighted a candle and did séeke for men in the middle of the Market wyth a lanterne Thomas To what pourpose dyd hée the same Hillarius For to make men to vnderstande that they were beastes wythout reason and vnderstanding and that hée had much a doe to finde men that is to saye wyse men both of wit and iudgement although hée sought them with a lanterns Should hée not haue more occasion to doe the same nowe at this present time For to what ende do all those lights serue but for to declare that we are the successours of the Panims who after the same sort vsed torches and candels at the burials and funerals of their dead For we haue not read in all the holy Scriptures that euer the true seruauntes of God haue lighted candels for the dead Nor that they were euer in such superstition Also we néed not to doubt but that the holy Water wherewith wée sprinkle the graues of the dead is also taken of the immitation of the Panims Theophilus I doubt it not It is very true that the auncient people of God had certeine washings certeine baptismes for their purifications not that they did thinck that the filthinesse and vncleanenesse of the soule conscience could be washed made cleane by the water corruptible Elements For sith that the soule is a spirit it must haue a spirituall purgation agreeing to his nature and not corporall Thomas What profit then do they receiue of such ceremonies Theophilus They did the same for to testifie witnesse that they were sinners polluted vncleane and that they had need of a purgation the which they could not finde in themselues but muste séeke it of others Forasmuch then as they acknowledge themselues sinners and in makinge open confession by those exteriour and outwarde washings and do witnesse that the bloude of Iesus Christ was necessarie for them for the washinge awaye of their sins they pleased by that obedience and confession God and by the faith that they had in Iesus Christ â—figured by those ceremonies and sacramentes whom they did looke for to bée their Sauiour They did truely communicate the bloud of Iesus which for them ought to haue bene shed as wée doe by the baptisme sauing but that wée had all things more excellent then they But wée doe not finde that they euer baptized the dead nor sprinkled their Sepulchres with coniured Water Hillarius Wée reade that the heathen Priestes vsed in their purgations the water of the sea with which they sprinckled that which they would purge Of which Proclus that noble Philosopher the Platonist yeldeth the reason saying that such water hath the propertie to purge bicause it is salt and that the salt hath in it some portion of the fire and holdeth somewhat of his Nature That same maketh mée to thincke that our Priestes for that same cause dyd put salte in their holy Water For before they dyd coniure the Water they dyd first coniure the salte and after dyd put it into the Water Thomas They dyd it after the example of Eliseus Theophilus But Eliseus dyd not cast the salt into the water for to coniure the Diuels there wyth but hath done it for to purge and make it cleane bicause that it was infected and poisoned so much y none could drincke of it And notwithstanding that Eliseus dyd put salte in it yet neuerthelesse the salt of his nature had not the propertie to correct and amend the corruption of the Water if the vertue of God had not wrought and done it nuraculously As it is declared by the applications of the thinges which Iesus Christ vsed as in putting the spittle vpon the tongues of those that were dumme for to make them speake or vpon the eyes of the blinde for to make them see or wythin the eares of those that were deafe for to make them heare not bicause that hée coulde not dooe that wythout suche applications as hée hath very well declared in a great many other of his woorkes For howe oftentimes hath hée healed them in touching them onely either by the hand as the leapers or by y gowne as y woman which was diseased with the issue of bloude and others without either séeing
full lovvd he prayd Thou hast heard the words of the Poet or at the least the sence of them which haue giuen mée occasion to thinke that which I haue tolde vnto thée Neuerthelesse it may bée that our priests haue inuented that manner to sprinkle the Sepulchers with water for to spare the wine the whiche they had rather drincke then to shedde it and they will not bée so prodigall in spending the wyne so much as they doe the water Thomas We doe not spare it therefore For we are compelled to giue drinke to the soules all the yeare Hillarius We are the more fooles But our Priestes are wiser then the Panims For they haue no regarde to giue the soules drinke nor to poure it vppon the earthe for to sprinkle the Sepulchers but doe poure it into their bellyes and sprinkle their consciences and will keepe the lawe of Numa kyâ—e of the Romaynes saying Doe not poure out the wine vppon the ashes and Sepulchers of the dead Thomas They are then the Lieuetenaunts of the soules but I would haue no such Lieuetenants at my table I had rather to giue them charge to fast for mée then to eate had rather haue them héerem my Lieuetenants But let vs also speake of the wynnowings that you haue set foorth for the thirde manner of Purgatory y which the auncients had and vsed I know not whether we vse them towards the dead But I haue séene them vsed towardes those that be alyue I haue séene them vsed towardes those that be alyue I haue séene the priestes to winde the women and lyttle children with the platine messell and corporall cloth in the Masse But I know not to what end the winde can serue for y soules in Purgatory but for to blow their fire Hillarius I would counsayle them to haue a Fanne as the Panims had which was made holy for to make their holy winnowings When I haue throughlye considered it I doe thinke that our Priestes and Monkes cannot giue so good reason of y that they do as y Panims And for to tell the truthe mée thinketh that they are lyke vnto those Emperiques that haue but one receyte for all diseases and complexions for al ages times and countries who doe kil more then they do heale or for to make y comparison more proper they make me to remeÌ„ber those Surgions which doe grease those that haue the goute and the pocks whome they cause al to passe thorow their furnace for to melt them all anew Theophilus Sith that they dispise and contemne the Gospell and that by the same they will not be made newe creatures forsaking their olde Adam the concupiscence of their flesh it is good reason that they haue such Smithes and melters for to make them new agayne And sith that men doe make no punishment God through his iust iudgement will make them to feele that fire for to quench the fire of concupiscence which burneth in their heart and vaines if they can consider it which is for theire profite and to draw them from their whoredome Thomas Men haue now founde out that they can heale thorow the dyet without melting them Hillarius I doe greatly feare that if our Priests Monkes learne none other occupation and science that they finde out none other drougs for to purge sinnes that they shall not finde héereafter any great trade but shal be constrayned to make the dyet themselues and the Alcumy with their téeth the which they doe feare greatly For men will giue them so lyttle to eat that I greatly doubte that they néede not to learne to faste and to lyue in more greater sobrietie and abstinence for to coole them a little For sith that the fire hath begun to kindle with in their furnace as Theophilus hath sayd and that all is consumed and burned except hell it is much to be feared that the register and rentall of theire reuenues with all their rentes that come vnto them yearely of Purgatory be not altogether consumed and melted I doe thinke that there is no better remedy for to correct their whoredome to learne them sobrietie and to kéepe a good dyet then to take from them their Purgatory Wherfore y Souldiers were not altogether euill aduised nor did not euill vnderstande that matter who aunswered to those holy fathers in stéede of a great curse when they saluted them with their Pax vobis pax sit huic Domini Dominus auferat vobis Purgatorium O holy father say they They doe praye that the Souldiers may haue peace and the Souldiers to the contrary doe pray for them that God would take from them their Purgatory And doe shew the reason For wee lyue saye they by the warre as you doe of Purgatorye and you would take it from vs and giue vnto vs peace Wherfore we pray vnto God that he would also take from you the Purgatory and you shal be as much estonished as we and doe thinke that you shall haue no more to eate their we haue Thomas You are of his opinion whome I demaunded not long since the exposition of a place that is in the Gospel in which Iesus Christ speaking of him y was possessed with a Diuell whom his Disciples could not heale saith This kinde of Diuells cannot be driuen out but by fasting and prayer Hillarius What exposition doth he giue vnto thée vppon the same Thomas That the Priestes and Monkes were of that kinde of diuells that they cannot be driuen away but by prayer and fasting and therefore saith he giue them nothing to eate but let them fast as long as they haue made you fast and pray vnto God for them Hillarius Beholde a verie good receite the which will not cost verie much at the Apothicaries Theophilus But wée must not so iest and scoffe with Gods woorde Thomas Notwithstanding he that aunswered vnto me so and vnto many other that were present was one of your people and one of your goodly gospellers Theophilus I denye not but that wee haue many such which are good gospellers in not giuing any thing vnto the Priestes nor yet in offering any thing vnto them But that is not sufficient Sith that they accompt the Priestes and Moukes for Diuells I woulde gladly that they should practise with themselues that doctrine of Iesus Christ and that they woulde not be onely gospellers in eating of flesh all dayes a like and in not offering no more vnto the Priestes nor vnto their images But that they woulde giue themselues to pray vnto God to deliuer his Church from false prophets and sheperdes and for to prouide true Priestes that doe confesse and preach his gospell And to the ende that their prayers should be the more feruent done with greater faith I do also desire that they woulde liue more soberly then they haue done and that they would fast after the manner of the true
seruauntes of God for to bee more attentiue and feruent in their prayers and that they woulde giue almes vnto the poore of the goods of Iesus Christ that men haue stollen from his members for to giue them to the Priestes Thomas I am of thine opinion For as touching the riside we I sée that almost euerye one wil be come a gospeller in that point that is in giuing little vnto y Priestes But after all these matters I would gladly that you woulde declare vnto me when and howe the fire hath first begun in Purgatorie and sithence what time it is burned Theophilus Sithence that the Gospel of Iesus Christ hath béene preached by the Apostles Thomas Me thinketh that you speake against Hillarie and al the catholicke Church For if it had béene burned so long time agon what Purgatorie should the Priestes haue had sithence Theophilus You must vnderstande that sithence the ruines and decayed places thereof haue béene repayred and amended by them as an old house that men doe reedifie amend after that it is decayed But sithence these thirtie or twentie yeares the fire hath begun to kindle againe and hath consumed and wasted it altogether Therefore I doe say that either the holy father the preacher was neuer there or else it is long time sithence Wherefore he coulde not be aduertised of the houshold that they kéepe there Thomas Then I pray you wherefore is not Hell as well burned which is more dangerous in which there is greater fire then either in y Limbe or in Purgatorie Theophilus If you had well vnderstanded that which hath béene alreadie told you I néeded not nowe to satisfie againe your demaunde The Limbe and Purgatorie are burned bicause they were builded and set vp with mens hands who can make no worke to continue any long time but that it wil be rotten in longe continuance or else destroyed with the fire whiche consumeth all things But hell is an other thing there are verie stronge walles which will continue for euer For euen as God which is eternall hath builded with his owne hande those goodly celestiall pallaces and hath planted that pleasant and delectable paradise for to receiue his children and seruants into the fruition and pleasure of the eternall life and felicitie So hath he constituted appointed for to giue vnto the wicked according to their iniquitie and to punish them as a righteous iudge for their execrable crimes offences the fire of Hell in which y worme dieth not nor y fire is neuer queÌ„ched For as witnesseth y prophet Esay The Lord doth breath forth thorow y wind of his wrath indignatioÌ„ doth cause the flouds of Brimstone to flow out for euer thorow his wrath and vengeance insomuch that there is neuer fire there lacking Thomas But how hath the fire begun in Purgatory rather sitheus the time that you haue spoken then it did before Theophilus I do meruayle that in this so long time it hath not bene done and how it could so long continue considering the tyranny that was there exercised For sithens that it was reedyfied and buylded agayne ther went no more any into Paradise nor yet into Hell but all taryed in Purgatory Ther was neyther poore nor rich but that all were put in there and they could not be suffered to depart although that they had paid their raunsome two or thrée times especially when there is wherof to take For there are such that after they haue bene kepte there already one or two hundreth yeares yet they haue bene constrayned to disburse yearely dayly and hourely new money for to haue bulls and pardons for to haue Masses Vigiles Requiems Libera me and for to celebrate Yereminds Anniuersaryes for to pay obites and a great many other sorts of gatherings tributes and rents that it is impossible to number them Hillarius I thinke that there should be goodly and rich mines of gold siluer I know not whether that fire hath melted consumed it al together For ther was in times past great store that almost all the golde and siluer of the world and all the riches and treasures of the Christians are all gone thether The Panims held Pluto for the God of hell and of riches bicause they thought him to dwell in those low countryes to which the soules did goe and bycause that all the treasures and riches doe come from the earth and that one shall finde thâ—r the mynes of gold and of siluer But the more I do thinke on the folly of the Panims so much the more doe I finde ours to be out of reason sauing that we haue in deede that which they had but in figure and imagining For we haue the Pope which is the very Pluto For he hath both Hell and Paradise to sell Hée is kinge of Hell Lymbe and of Purgatory Hée is Eacus Minos and Radamantus For he iudgeth the â—oore soules as it pleaseth him and condemneth them to the Limbe Purgatory or in hell when it pleaseth him as often as he séeth good And God knoweth what mines of golde and siluer what treasures goods he draweth vnto him in such sort that we may very well call him Pluto Mammon God of the earth and vnder the earth king of Hell and of all his territories The more I consider the thing so much y more it maketh me astonied For I haue read many histories which make mention of many Tyrants and great théeues which haue bene couetous and raueners without all measure But I know not whether a man shall finde many or one onely that hath caused tribute to be paide by the dead as be doth dayly among the Christians If one shall finde any I beléeue at the least that he hath not so long compelled the dead to pay tribute Wée may very well say that among the Christians is accomplished the prouerbe of the auncientes who speake of those that with wrong violence goe about to haue and catch they demaund tribute of the dead and the meale and flowre of Images willing also by that kinde of speaking to rebuke those that wil enrich themselues by vnhonest vnlawfull meanes which dooe séeke profit of those small vile thinges as the Emperour Vespasian who caused tribute to be paide of the vryne and of vile things as of bawdry euen as the Pope did that receiued tribute of whoores and of brothell houses that are at Rome One may also speake it of those that get money of all men without any difference either of friendes poore or of the beggers and in the ende of those that are deade But that Prouerbe coulde neuer bée better applyed then to our Priestes and Monkes Vespasian althoughe hée was otherwyse a good Emperour hath bene taxed of couetousnesse for that tribute that hée receyued of the vryne And when his sonne Titus who was ashamed admonished him hée caused him to smell at hys nose the money
brought of those children wheÌ„ they will not giue them to drincke as they would nor giue them that they demaund The Diuell of miracle that you shall haue thrée dayes Those are yet liuing who hearde it who can witnesse the truth Wherefore I doe conclude that the olde woman doth the miracles and not our Lady Thomas And hath that poore man Gaspard quenched their thirst Hillarius I kmow not what he did I thinke that when she sawe him so beggerly that she had some pittie But héerein stoode the question that when the childe that was raised must bée buryed then had he somewhat to doe For he must pay foure or fiue grotes for the buryall and I beléeue that he had not foure farthinges for to paye his charge and expence Neuerthelesse he could neuer agrée with the Priestes but was constrained to carry his childe to Orbe or otherwise he must bury him in the rawe earth For hée coulde neuer haue one foote of sodden earth Thomas What doe you call sodden earth and rawe earth Hillarius Are you of that country know not the language Doe you not know y our priests do call coÌ„monly raw earth that which is out of the churchyard which hath not ben blessed consecrated y is to wéet charmed by them as the same of their Church If it be rawe I conclude by contraries that the other is sodden Thomas And when he was at Orbe did he finde the Priestes more pitifull then at Lausannia Hillarius God knoweth howe that poore man was sifted and tried They did thinke to eate him aliue with his childe compelled him to carrie him to Lausannia or at the least would not suffer him to bury him in the Churchyarde neuerthelesse hee buried him But I knowe not whether it were in the rawe ground or sodden Thomas Beholde a greate rigour and crueltie shewed vnto a little infant Hillarius I doe thinke that if that tyme had continued any long space we should haue béene constrayned not to dye for want of burying It is a marueylous case that that poore little Infant had so much a doe to finde one little corner or angle in the earth for to be buried in and that the earth was not greate ynough for him We may very well say that of our Priests which Phocion saide of the Athemans a little before his death When they had condemned him to dye bicause he was too honest a man for them nor they were not worthy to haue him among them he must drincke of the hemlocke For the Athenians had that custome to make those that were founde faultie to drinke that poyson and to put them to death after that sort After that all the other that were in the prison with him had dronken and that there was none but he alone left bicause that all the other had consumed the poyson that did drinke first the hangman saide that hée will not giue it him vnlesse one woulde giue him twelue drachines of siluer For bicause that an ownce of the poyson was sold for so much Phocion then pleading with the hangman that his death might not be prolonged and that the same should not let or hinder him to die called vnto him a certeine friende of his and said vnto him Sith that it is not lawfull to dye at Athens frely but that it will cost money and that I must bye death I pray thée deliuer money to this hangman and giue him the price hée demaundeth least that for want of money I should tarry any longer before I dye We may say as much of the Christians and that y Christianitie is so much contributary that one cannot onely haue the death and the buriall freely but that we must pay a rewarde There was also among the Panims a certeine custome that the dead must pay And therfore when any man dyed they did put into his mouthe an halfe penny for to paye for his passage and custome vnto Charon the Ferryman of Hell for to serry the soules ouer the riuers that were there to passe ouer Thomas That was very good cheape But I do thinke that there passed many together at once For the soules are not very heaâ—y Hillarius According to the bodies from which they came out Thomas And if they had not wherewith to pay should they be constrayned to retourne to lyue againe and to continue and abide heere for want of money Hillarius They had that opinion that they should continue in great torment if they coulde not passe For they could not be purged of their sinnes nor enter into the fields Eliseas with the blessed but that they must firste passe the riuer As men haue made vs to beleeue of the soules who haue not ended their penaunce They doe also beleeue that if their bodyes be not honestly buryed according to their estate and degrée they cannot passe in an hundreth yeares but must be wandring héere and there vntill such time as their bodyes be buryed or vntill the terme of an hundreth yeares which was assigned vnto them for their payne and punishment be expired the which things the Poet hath comprised altogether in one selfe place by his verses of which I wil recite vnto you one parte of those that agree best to our matter He speaketh in that place of the things that Aâ—neas hath séene béeing descended into Hell with Sibilla the which afterwardes hée expoundeth and sheweth playnely whâ—t they signifie He first describeth that which they haue séene there practised saying HEere now the way doth lead to Lymbo lake and filthy stoud Whose chaÌ„nell choked is with troublous grouÌ„ds of miry mud And belching boyles a sand vvhich to the bakes it throws froÌ„ deeps A dredfull ferriman that streme vvith visage lothsom keepes In tartred vvretched weede and Charon he by name doth hight His hoary bush and bearde both ouergrovvue foule vndight With skowling steming eyes from his shoulders down his loyns His filthy mantell hangs whom sluttish knot vncomly ioyns Himselfe vvith pyked poale his boat doth guyde bears a charge Transporting still the soules in rusty dusty canckred barge Well aged novv but sappy strength he keepes of greener yeares To this place al the rout doth dravv theÌ„selues with louring cheeres By nombers great both men and vvomen dead nor long delayde With Princes preased boyes and girles that wedlocke neuer sayde And slouring youth that in their parents time were laid in ground And all that lyfe had borne about that banke they clustered round As thicke as leaues of trees among the vvoods in vvynter vvinde When first to ground they fal or lyke as foules of vvater kinde Assembling flock themselues when yere of frost hath first begunne And ouer Sâ—â—s they seeke in vvarmer lands to take the Sunne They stood and crauing cride that first transport they might before And stretching held their hands desiring much the further shore The churlish ferruman novv these novv those by course
they cannot agrée together and it is impossible that the one can endure continue with the other sith that the one purgeth without money through the onely grace of God and the other is an insatiable goulfe which melteth consumeth all the golde siluer of the world neither purgeth it the sinnes but maketh all those guiltie of hell fire that séeke in it their purgation Hillarius I doe compte him to be foolish mad that had rather consume and wast all his substaunce for to buy hell then to receiue Paradise fréely which shal cost him nothing Thomas In hearinge you speake I am greatly estonied to see how men haue chaunged their nature For they do all willingly runne to the best chepe there is none but bad rather receiue good merchaundise if it coste nothinge then to buy the bad very deere or poyson for to kill in steede of bread which ought to nourish which shall be presented and offered vnto him without money Theophilus And yet neuerthelesse wée doe sée the same put in practise euery day wherein we may well know how God hath taken away the sences and vnderstanding of men who doe take such great pleasure to destroy themselues and to lose both their bodies soules and goodes For they are mad to runne after the priests for to buy death and refuse life which is presented vnto thē fréely and thanckfully by Iesus Christ Hillarius I beléeue it well behold the cause wherefore al these collyars and kitchin men who doe liue vpon that fire haue endcuoured themselues as much as lyeth in them to quench out altogether the fire of the gospel of Iesus Christ which quencheth putteth out theirs bicause that it is more vehement and more violent and consumeth it into Asshes Thomas Is it then true that it is quenched euen as you say and that there remaineth nothing whole Theophilus There remaineth yet some chamber or cabine which are not yet all burned But sithence that once the fire of Iesus Christ hath begun there to kindle it will not cease vntill such time as it hath consumed it all into Asshes for that is a fire which none can quench Hillarius I do much meruaile that they doe not all runne for water to cast vpon it Whereto serueth their holy water wherefore doe they not no we make it to shew his vertues as well as against the lightninges tempestes when they coniure them Theophilus They do cleane contrary For euery one runneth to the fire to the fagots to the brimstone to the lights to the bellowes for to make it the more to burne And they are so hot after it that there is neyther King Prince Lord Bourgis Merchaunt or Labourer whom they do not prouoke to blow their fire to cast on fagots in such sort that it is become so great that men doo sée in many places that it is like to consume those that bée aliue Thomas Can they quench it by that meanes Theophilus You are not deceiued hath the fire of men vsed to quench the fire of God No but they doe kindle it dayly more and more Hillarius I know the cause wherefore they doe it They do greatly feare least those Lutherians and heretickes should not be dampned and that they should not go into hell sith that they denie the Purgatory and that they will not enter therefore they woulde make them to féele it in this world and to purge them from their sinnes to put them in Paradise against their wils They doe well declare thereby that they differ from the Persians who will not burne the dead bodyes as the Greekes Latines do bicause they hold the fire as a God and they thinck that it séemeth that it was much vnséemely for his maiestie to defile himselfe with dead bodies and to nourish him with flesh But these héere do giue him none other meat but do sacrifice to him men as the Idolatres dyd God Moloch Pluto Saturnus and dyd nourishe them wyth mans fleshe But one maye replye vnto mée and saye that they dyd vnto him that honour to nourishe hym wyth lyue flesh Theophilus I am not so much amazed to sée them doo that as I am to sée how they make the princes lords their hangmen putting into their hands those whom they would haue to be executed Hillarius They shewe themselues to bée the successors of those who sayde vnto Pylate speaking of Iesus Christe we haue a lawe and by our lawe he ought to dye But it is not lawfull for vs to put any man to death And therefore they praye ayde of the seculer power the whiche men dare not refuse I doe thincke that many Princes Lordes doe feare least it happen vnto them as it happened vnto Nicanor the preuost of Alexander against the Bactrianians The Hircanians and Bactrianians did vsually giue vnto the dogges those that were very olde and did thincke it to be the best burying For that cause the common people nourished vp common dogs for that purpose and the riche men tame and demesticall dogges for to serue them for that purpose And therefore they called them in their language the dogges of Sepulchres or graue dogges Then when Nicanor was come vnto the Bactrianians hée endeuoured himselfe to reforme and correct that vile custome and execrable crime But he could neuer take order to reforme it but to the contrary as witnesseth sainct Hierome they did rise againste him in such sort that he had almost lost his kingdome Now if we will consider the thinges and way them well what are in these daies our Priests and Moonkes who do liue vpon carrion as the dogs of the Sepulchres doo For that cause I thincke that Rosset the Poet of Sauoy called the dogges the Chanons of mount Faucon as I haue heard him oftentimes say in his lessons Sith thē they haue vsed to eat mans flesh it is no meruaile though men do feare them that they féede them deintely as they doe in Hircania For there is not almost any great house but hath his domestical dogs besides those that are kept fed commonly in euery towne village Theophilus I doe much doubt that the same that they are afraide off will happen vnto them sith the they wil set no good order according to the power that God hath giuen vnto them I do greatly feare that in the ende those dogs wil dououre thē altogether For they haue already wel begun Hillarius Me thincks that they take the Pope for Moloch Pluto or Saturne whō men cannot appaise without sacrificing vnto them men The Pope woulde bée called our holy father but that is such a father as Saturne was who did eat his owne children if the Poets haue not lyed but yet Rea his wife hid them from him and kept them the he should not eate them But the court of Rome the papisticall Church who would be called our holy mother Church doth
words Theophilus I would gladly know thy reasons wherfore Admitte that all that which this holy father hath preached this day be true and all that which he at other times hath made vs to beléeue of Purgatory First I demaund of thée whether the Priests Moonkes can delyuer the soules which are kept in that fire through their Prayers Suffrages good déedes Uigiles Masses and Pardons Eusebius Who will say the contrary but the Hereticks Theophilus If it be so wherefore are they so cruell that they doe not delyuer them incontinent from the fire sith that they haue the power to doe it Doe they delyte to see them frye roste and burne with a lyttle fire as they doo those whome they condempne for Heretickes for to make them suffer more greater torment If you sée an house on fire and that ther were a lyttle childe or a poore man with in the house crying for helpe and succour would you not runne by and by and fetch them out if you might possible Thomas Although it were but a Deg yet one should haue pyttie to heare him cry and howle Theophilus That same is most true Wherefore you may iudge Eusebius what people those are whome you haue in such estimacion accomptest for the holy Church They doe sing in their Uigills in the name of the soules Haue mercy vppon mee haue mercy vppon mée you at the least that are my friends And in their Masse and in theire Lugentibus in Purgatorio They doe cry vnto the Uirgin Mary that she haue pittie compassion of these poore soules which doe lament themselues in Purgatorye and which are rosted with a very great fire and tormentes without remedy Wherefore doe not they themselues haue compassion on them and giue them helpe Eusebius What doe they then Doe you not sée how by those very words they doe pray vnto the Uirgin Mary for them and howe they shew that they are their aduocaters and intercessors towards hir Theophilus But doe they that for the compassion that they haue of them Hillarius They declare it sufficiently inough For if one giue them no money they will lette them rost and burne perpetually although they haue power to delyuer them as they brag and boast themselues they can Theophilus Thereoff I am much abashed and yet more bicause it is written and ordayned in theire rules of their diuine office that if it chaunce that the yeres minde of those that be dead fall vppon a Sunday or vpon any solempne feast it ought not to be delayed nor put off vntill the next day as it is vsed in the office and feasts of Saints if they fall vppon such dayes But must rather aduaunce the office and prayers for the dead in the dayes before for to comfort them the better and to preuent and mittigate the paynes that they to suffer in Purgatory Of which they do giue such reasons saying that the dead the soules of the dead haue neede of our ayde but not the Saints Wherefore the Saints which be in Paradise haue more greater leasure to tarry then the poore soules that are holden in the fire of Purgatory Whervnto agréeth very well the question which Maioris made To witte what Masse is most profitable for the dead eyther that which is sayde quickely and hastely as the custome is in Fraunce to singe them or els that which is sayd leasurely and in which they bestowe a greate time as they doe in Scotlande and in Spayne Hillarius What is the solution of the question Theophilus That the same that is soonest dispatched is the best For the soules doe not feele the comfort that they oughte to receiue of the Masses which are sunge in theire name vntill such time as the Masse is done Hillarius And therefore they say as I thinke Ite Missa est Go your way the Masse is done and doe beléeue that then the soules haue leaue for to depart out of purgatory But by that accompt the Masses of Hunters should be the best And the poore should haue more greater aduauntage then the rich For they doe dispatch their Masses quickely with a lyttle Requiem yet the Priestes doe eate the one halfe for the great hast that they haue It séemeth playnelye that they woulde sende them into Paradise in poste But the riche they doe carrye vppen Horselytters or Wagons with great Requiems which continueth euerye one of them more then tenne myles and are more then tenne ells long But I thinck that they haue regarde vnto that that the most part of those arrant théeues were goutie and they are yet afraide to doe them hurte and to trouble their goutes Thomas I had rather to haue the goute and to be carryed into Paradise vppon the most trotting horse that can be founde then to burne in that so terrible a fire But I maruayle if it be so wherefore it is forbidden that the Priestes shall say but one Masse in a day sith that they are so profitable for the dead Me thinketh that the Priestes should neuer cease singing of Masses at all times and that they ought to forsake their meate and foode to doe that For if they were in a fire they woulde gladly that one should leaue all things for to helpe thē out Furthermore howe much the more a thinge is the betre◠so much the more the frequentacion of the same ought to be the better Hillarius I am also estonyed that the Papists doe not all the good déedes that they determine to doe for the deade all in one day without tarying for the yeremindes and causing the poore soules to languish so long in that fire to suffer them so long time to roste and that those that ordayne Masses in their Testaments doe not cause them to bée dispatched in an houre without lymiting so long time Theophilus Also Maioris did very well say that the same should be the better although that afterwards he added that a Masse which is said more treatably doth recompence through the deuosion of him which sayeth it the quickenesse and breuitie of that which is sayde in hast Hillarius I beléeue very well that they had rather haue all their money together that they looke for then to cause them to languish in tarying for it as the poore soules fearing least any thing should escape them Therefore they say that the candle that goeth before is better then that which commeth after Thomas I assure thée that I had an Aunt whom they had put that into hir heade that the must be buryed before she be deade Hillarius How could she doe that Thomas Shée hath done during hir lyfe all hir good déedes as she would haue that one should doe for hir after hir death carryinge candells and sprinklyng holy water vppon the graue in which she would be buryed and causinge the Priestes to sing as they should haue done if she had bene dead But the same happened well for them For
carried to the earth vpon a goodly Béere with great magnificence and pomp the which the Satyrical Poet hath comprised in a few verses speaking of those which through their excesse and for that they follow not the counsayle of the Phisitian and kéepe not good dyet doe kill themselues saying With such like train they march before with trōpe torches bright To guyde the rich man to his graue a goodly gorgeous sight Who on a curious coffin lyes mourners beare his beere And all his friends bewayle his death with sad mourning cheere On the contrary parte if there doe dye any poore man or anye younge childe or man of small callynge they doe bring him simply with a lyttle procession and a small company and the most times in the night for the causes which already before haue bene touched and they hadde but one lyttle Flute Of which among others the Poet Statius doth witnesse it wryting of Archanorus after this manner But when poore men or children dye their buriall is not braue A lyttle Flute doth serue their tourne to bring them to their graue Sith that we are fallen into the talke of the Flute I doe remember an history that Plinie maketh mencion off of a Rauen that was at Rome who had learned to speake insomuch that euery morning he went into the open stréets and saluted the Caesars to wytte Tiberius Germanicus Drusius by their proper names and also the people of Rome For which cause he was so wel beloued that when he was dead the people of Rome put him to deathe that had killed him and made such great sorrow and lamentations that they celebrated funeralls and pompes for him so that he was carryed to the graue vppon a goodly beere very trimly decked adorned the which two Aethiopians or black Moores did beare vpon their shoulders with a great number of garlāds crowns of flowers a Fluter which played vpon the Flute before vntil they came to his graue Thomas Is it possible that the Romaynes who haue ben so greatly estéemed thorow out the whole worlde to haue bene so foolish Hillarius They witnesse it themselues by their owne historyes and you must vnderstand bicause that the deade body was blacke it was carryed by two Aethiopians or blacke Moores as he was But if they had had of lacopins Augustines or Moonkes of the order of Saint Bennet they had bene a great deale fitter for that office and so the Rauens should haue carryed the Rauen to the graue and should haue put him in the Paradise of the Rauens And doubte not that if the Rauens Dogs and Asses had wherewith to bury them and that the Priestes might get so much money from them as they doe from the rich men that they woulde spare them no more then they doe the rich and would haue no more pittie and compassion of their soules then of the soules of men I doe meruayle of nothing but of this that the Romaynes vsed rather the Flute in those funeralls of the Rauen then the Trompette sith that in all the rest he was buryed as solemly as the rich men be And what doe our Priestes If any great Usurer be dead they runne by and by to the great bell There is not a Church nor parishe but that all the belles are walking insomuch that they make a greater noyse then the Cyclopes doe with their Hammers and Mallets I would counsell them to doe as the women of the Lacedemonians did when their king was dead who did runne about the country sounding and tinging of fire pannes pots and basins as men doe after Bées when they swarme for to declare the death of their king After that the belles are once set in order a ringing behold frō all quarters do come Moonks Priests white gray blacke smokid of al colours as Owles and Shrichowles Rauens Eagles Wolues and Dogges doe after carren and they haue no néede to shaue themselues as the Panims doe for to lament and be sorrowfull For they are already shauen of themselues as the Priestes of the Babilonians Aegyptians and the Priestes of Isis are and are clothed wyth lynnen white shirts as they are They doe serue for all In stéede of Minstrells singers wéepers and lamenters And euen as those Panim Minstrells did sing pittifull and lamentable songs and the euill fortunes of men for to comfort the parents euen so haue these our Priestes and Moonkes turned the booke of Iob into suche lamentacions and complaynts Theophilus Neuerthelesse it is concluded in the counsell of Tholet that those which are called of the Lorde from this worlde ought to be carryed to their graue onely with singing of Psalmes the rather to witnesse and declare that they doe not so mourne and lament as the Panims doe then for any other thing and also to declare the hope of the resurrection Hillarius There was more appearaunce in that which the Idolaters did for they did sing in a language vnderstanded of all men if the songs did not serue any thinge to the dead yet at the least they serued somewhat to those that were alyue But the roaring and bellowing of our Priests and Moonkes doe serue neyther for the one nor the other but onely to accroche and gette to them money and to cause it to come as the Birdes to the call except peraduenture they woulde alleadge the reason of Macrobius which sayth the men do accōpany the dead to the graue with singing bicause the panims beléeue after the the soules are seperated from y bodies they doe follow that swéet harmony wyth the same goe vp to Heauen For monye were of the opinion of Herophilus Dicearchus and Aristoxenus of whom Cicero maketh mention who sayd that the soule was not altogether nothing or onely a harmony the which taketh pleasure with that pleasaunt singinge and melody and goeth wyth it And God graunt that these héere doe beléeue the soules to be immortall and that they may haue a better opinion then those had And also as touchinge the torches that the Panims carried ther was some honest cause wherfore For they carried them partly for to kindle woode that was prepared for to burne the dead bodyes withall bicause that when they were come to the place appointed ordained for the same the néerest of kin did take one of those torches and kindeled the fire as Virgile hath sufficiently declared it speaking of the burying of Misenus after this manner In mourning sort some heaue on shoulders hye the mightie beere A dolefull seruice sad as children doe their fathers deere Behinde them holding bronds thē flame vprising broad doth spred And oyles and dayntyes cast and Frankensens the fire doth seede Also in some places they haue néede of them bycause that they doe bury them in the night after the law of Demetrius Phalereus who hath so ordayned it for to correct the superstuous pompe and
pride of those exequies and funeralls which were too excessiue insomuch that many did bestow great cost about them and afterwardes they themselues wanted as it happeneth dayly to many who bestow great treasure vppon the dead and do dye with hunger in their houses nor leaue wherewith to pay their owne debtes nor those of the deade and doe keepe backe that which is due vnto the good people for to giue it to the Priestes Bicause of those torches the Latenists doe call at this day the burialls Funus bicause that they were made with cordes the which they cal Funes as they do call them yet now But the Turkes haue a better order and of more appearaunce in that then we It is very true that they haue some things lyke to our superstlcions For in the burying of the rich men and men of honour their Priestes whome they call in their language Thalassanians doe follow them a great number according to the richnesse and estate of the dead singing often times this Song and Lctany God is God and the true God Magman the Bessenger of god But they haue this goodnesse that they do cause the Binges and Princes to buylde for some of them Iemples for others Bospitalls for Sepulchers and graucs the which they enrich with great reuenewes and rentes not for to nurrish the idle priests but for to sucecur the necessitie and no dâ— of the poore and needy Eusebius All your matters are nothing but sul of mocking and slaunderinges Doth not all payne and trauayle require a rewarde Is it not good reason that the parents and friends which haue the goodes of the dead and become their heires should recompence the Pricstes somewhat Hath not Iesus Christ sayd that the Laborer is worthy of his rewarde If the Priestes would doe that without taking any thing the heires and friends should make greate chéere with the goodes of the dead and in the meane while the poore Priestes which doe trauayle for them should die of hunger And so by that meanes one shoulde finde none that would doe that office nor which woulde be a Priest Hillarius That should be a great incenuenience and very euil for the Christianitie chiefely for the poore soules of Purgatory who shoulde haue no more aduocates nor intercessors betwéene God and the Uirgin Mary for to delyuer them from those paynes Theophilus I confesse that we must not moossell the mouth of the Oxe that treadeth out the corne and it is also good reason that he that serueth the Gospell shoulde lyue of the Gospell But what trauayle doe those héere take what seruices doe they eyther to the quicke or to the dead Hillarius To eate vp and deuoure their goodes and substaunce Theophilus That which you haue alleadged is against your selfe For when Iesus Christ sayth that the workeman is worthy to haue his meate he speaketh of the Ministers of the Gospell and not of Minstrells He hath not commaunded the Christians to féede and giue meate to Minstrells for to haue them sounde in their eares but Ministers for to preach the gospel to them He letteth vs to vnderstande that we must worke and trauayle in the Ministerie of the Gospell by that that he sayth the workeman not the idle and slougthfull Afterwardes he declareth that he would not haue the Ministers of his Church couetous nor giuen to filthy lucre nor insatiable when he declareth that the meate is due to the Pastours of the Gospell but ought to content them selues as the holy Apostle to be cloto câ— nourished and kept according to their estate and condition whithout super fluity which may cause them to for get God and without to great neede which maye hinder them to exercise their office But these here do neuer cease to aâ—â—e and to catch yet they do no workes that serue for the health of men It wine a great deale better the they would shew forth ineffect the which they saye their belles do signifie then to haue beiles for to represent it They do interpret that the sound of their belles doth signifie the sound of the word of God the which they ought to preach vnto the people and that the belles do signifie the prophets and ministers of the gospell who ought to sounde in the Church of God But they do leaue all the charge vnto the belles and will not uiedle with it Haue they not well prouided for the christian people good preachers Hillarias You do not vnderstand their practise They are wyser then you thincke Mee thinckes that men cannot complaine of them as touching the office of preaching for they haue so well prouided that one cannot rebuke them It is verie true that they do not preache But they haue so many the more vicars to supply their office Haue they not the Churches full of Images For you know that their Images are lay mens and sooles bookes as they tell vs But I know not what bookes they are nor on which side they must take them to open and read in them or whether we must begin at the beginning as y Oreekes Latined Frenchmen and others like or at the end and so go backward cleane coÌ„trary to others as the Hebrewes and Caldes do Wee haue assayed them and haue taken very sharpe Batchettes and Ares for to open the leaues which are so saste stirched and glewed together that it is impossible to open and separate them a sunder except we do hew and cut them in peeces Wee haue looked beefore and behinde towardes the head and the feete the belly and the backe but we could neuer soe any letter neither to knowe whether they were written in Greeke Hebrew or Latine nor yet in what language To conclude we find nothing there but Mice Pytch Spiders and such filthyuesse But if they be the lay mennes books whereto serueth then for them preachers haue they not found them ready at hand and the most fytte as is possible to finde First of all they coulde not haue founde them more fitter for them For they doe neyther eate nor drinck nor their meate and fire costeth them any thing But which is more they nurrishe and keepe them aboute them and do well declare that they are not vicars without cause For the offrings that they receiue they make a good accompt and do pay a great reuenewe to their Curate and Byshop Du the other side should not the people haue great wronge to complaine For they are gracyous preaches They neuer rebuke any man but let euery one doe as he lisse If the prophets Apostles and ministers of the Gospell were such pleasant preachers they should not be so much hated nor euill entreated of men but men would offer vnto them candels and hysse their fâ—â—t â—s they do those But thore is a great fault in them for the which we must prouide For not withstangding that they haue goodly mouthes yet neuerthelesse they speake not because they
the prophecie which Esay prophecyed against the Aegyptians be accomplyshed vppon them and vppon all their Fishers and vppon those which lyue about their riuers and which make the instruments of Idolatry supersticion Hillarius What is that Prophecie Theophilus Giue eare and you shall see whether it agréeth not well to our matter The water of the Sea sayth hée shall bée drawne out Nilus shall sinke away and be dronken vp The riuers also shall be drawen out and the wells shal decreace and dry away Réede and Rush shall fayle the grasse by the waters side or vppon the riuers banke yea and whatsoeuer is sowen by the waters shall be wythered destroyed and brought to nought The fisshers shall mourne all such as cast angels in the water shall complayn and they that spred their nettes in the water shal be faynt hearted Such as labour vpon Flare and Silke shal come to pouertie and they also that weaue fine workes And all those which doe make pondes and stewes for the lyuing soules shall be sorrowfull for their nettes Hillarius It is not possible to finde out a prophecie which better agreeth with them For this heere maketh mention of waters of Fisshers of Flare workers of makers of nettes of makers of pondes and stewes in which they doe keepe and holde fast the lyuing soules as the fisshers doe keepe their fishes in their stewes and fish pents It maketh also mention of their instruments of the workemen that make them the they feare nothing lesse least that the preaching of the Gospell should drye vp those riuers as Demetrius those of his sect greatly feared the thorow the preaching of Paul the honour of Diana the great goddesse of the Ephesians should be diminished their gayne with hir Therefore they are not to be blamed although they loke to it so diligently It in more then time that the vertue of God doth shew foorth it self for to deliuer his poore people from the handes of so many fishers which plunge drown so many poore soules through their lakes puddles Those are terimen marrincrs which do drowne all those which enter into their boates ships For they haue not Iesus Christe with them which causeth the windes tempests to be calme to cease which causeth alwaies a safe landing and port Theophilus And therefore it shoulde be more reasonable that we should cry after him as the Apostles did saying Lord saue vs that we should make our prayer vnto God that he would deliuer vs from that déepe take al those that be aliue then to sing for the dead For if Dauid the other seruauntes of God did complaine themselues to haue bene drowned in the lakes of tribulation and mysery that the waters haue enuironed couered them ouer the head wée haue no lesse occasson to complayne Esay desiring to signifie the misery tribulation which should come vnto Hierusalem and to all the lande of Iuda by the army of Sennacherib sayth that she shall be enuironed wyth waters vp to the throate And vseth such comparison for to let them to vnderstand that the same army shal destroy and couer all the land euen as Euphrates did couer and destroy that lande of Assyria when it ouerflowed making comparison by the souldiers host vnto the riuer bicause that both the one and the other doe passe through one lande But Hierusalem was neuer so afflicted nor oppressed by the vyolent waues of the armye of the Assyrians as the poore Church is troden downe and oppressed by that great Romish Sennacherib and his army whiche is innumerable throughout all the whole worlde as the sande of the sea But we haue spoken inough of the Lake It resteth now to absolue the doubte which I haue alreadye begun Forasmuch friende Eusebius as you say that that hell and déepe lake of which mencion is made of it in the affertory for the dead is taken for purgatory what doth y signifie which is spoken off afterwards Deliuer thē from the lyons mouth least that hell do not deuour them I beleeue the they vnderstand by the Lyon none other but the Dyuel who as S. Peter witnesseth is our enemy walketh about séeking whom he may deuour But sith the the soule is separated from the body how can it be deliuered frō the mouth of y roring denouring lyon if the soule be of a reprobate which dieth out of y saith of Christ who shal deliuer it from his throte when God hath giuen it him And if it be of a faithfull man Iesus Christe who is the strong and inuincible Lion of the tribe of Iuda who hath had the victory ouer that Lion which is aduersary and enemy vnto God hath he not already deliuered it hath not he killed and prohibited the mouth of that hungry Lion as a true Sampson and Dauid in such sorte that he hath no more teeth nor fanges for to deuoure the childen of God whom the Lord Iesus holdeth as the Lyon his pray to whome none dareth to come nigh as Esay hath written that the Lord kéepeth Hierusalem and his elect people Also I thinke it not much vnméete if we make such prayer for those that be a liue the which Iesus Christ hath taught vs to pray and say And lead vs not into temptation but deliuer vs from euill And hee him selfe hath made the prayer vnto God his Father for his discyples as witnesseth Sainct Iohn He saith not I pray thee that thou wouldest deliuer them from euill after this life nor saith I pray not that thou wouldest take them out of the world but that thou wouldest kéepe them from all euill Also S. Peter doeth not exhort vs to abstaine from meates to bée sober watche and pray and to arme vs with faith againste that roaring Lion for those that be dead but for our selues whilest that we be a liue to the ende we may auoyd his mouth for to come vnto that holy light which he hath promised vnto Abraham and vnto his seede For according to your doctrine sith that the soule is seperated from the body if man hath not had here remission of his sinnes before his death he cannot haue it after And if he haue it in this life he goeth either into Paradise or into Purgatory If he be in Paradise it is no more to bee feared that hell can swallow him vp If he bée in Purgatory although that according to your opinion he be in paynes yet neuerthelesse you confesse that he is past the danger of damnation and that he is sure of his saluation Wherefore I vnderstand not howe that prayer can agrée with the worde of God and the doctrine of the auncient doctors your owne For you speake against your selfe If that prayer doth profit the soules of the dead in the other life it must then bée that ther is yet great
foreshewed that deliuerance which Gregory ought to doe touching the soule of Traianus Theophilus I knowe not what their prophecies are but I neuer in all my lyfe did sée nor heare a thing wherin was lesse reason assurance incerteinly then in that papisticall doctrine For it consisteth but in mane opinions But how do those fables agrée with that that they themselues alledge of Sainct Augustine who by their owne witnesses should say If I did know that my Father were in hell I would pray no more for him then for the diuell Wherefore then haue S. Gregory and S. Machair prayed for the dampned And when the Priestes do pray vnto Iesus Christ that he deliuer the soules least that hel should deuoure them and that they should not fall into the darke and obscure places in what place doe they vnderstande that the soules for whom they make that request ought to bee Sith that they make request that hell do not deuour them they do then vnderstand and meane that they are not in hell But when they admoreouer that they fall not into the darke and tenebrous places they declare therby that they ought to be in a place from which they may not fall Now what is that place Is it Paradise Eusebius No verely For those that are there are alreadye all assured that they shall neuer fall Theophilus No except you are of that opinion that the soules may yet sinne in Paradise as the Angelles and Adam in the terrestriall Paradise and that God did throwe them headlonge into hell as the wicked Angelles or that he dyd driue them out of Paradise as Adam But I beléeue thou art not of that opinion friende Eusebius for thou shouldest speake against all the good auncient Doctours and the doctrine of the catholike Church who doe preferre the worke of mannes redemption to the same of his creation in that that man hath bene so created of God that he could sinne But he hath after such sort redéemed it that his elect can neuer perish nor sinne after they be in Paradise Eusebius It is very true Theophilus In what place then are those soules Thou wylt not saye that they are in the Limbe For according to your owne doctrine that same of the fathers is emptie and as touching the other there goeth none thether but the little children that bée borne dead for whom you doe no more praye then for the dampned For you hope no more that they can come out from thence 〈◊〉 more thē tho dampned can come from hel Wherefore there resteth no more but Purgatory Nowe if those soules are in Purgatorye it muste bée that they haue some solace and some lyght as in Paradise or otherwise wherefore doe they praye that those soules doe not fall into the obscure and darke places if they be there already We will yet come againe vnto my first matter and thou shalt be compelled to confesse that Paradise and Purgatory is all one thing Or that you doe praye for the Saints and Saintes of Paradise and for those which are at rest or at the leastwise that the soules which are already tormented in Purgatory maye yet fall more déeper into hell y darke places And so by that reason they are yet in daunger of dampnation which is contrarye to your own doctrine Hillarius I am greatly estonished friēd Theophilus what reason you can finde out of all reason and what certeintie you search besides the woord of God which is onely certayne What foundation shall you finde in dreames For all that that they saye and do touching the dead and all their doctrine what other thing is it but dreames and lyinges which haue neither spiryte nor iudgement Is not that a Theology altogether come of the Panims for of all those thinges haue they learned any one sillable of Iesus Christ Wherfore I would sith that they will not followe but their owne fantasie the opinions of men and of the Idolaters and that they haue no regarde of the holy Scriptures that they would not at the leastwise onely followe the euyll but also the good that they haue taught Plato that great and worthy Philosopher hath set foorth thrée kindes of righteousnesse The one towardes God an other towardes men and the thirde towards the dead But these heere doo neither regard God nor men the be aliue but haue conuerted all their care vpon the dead not for the loue of them but for the loue of themselues Wherefore you muste not thincke that they haue done this for any zeale of righteousnesse for to render vnto them their duetie Theophilus I desire gladlye that they and all the Christians woulde acquite them in suche sorte that one may say that whiche the Scripture witnesseth of Ruth and of Booz and to gyue vnto them such prayse For it wytnesseth that they haue shewed mercy on the dead But how was it in bestowing their goodes to bury them pompeously and making a greate many of Ceremonyes about their buryall They haue not learned to doe so by the worde of god For as Sainct Augustine sayth also it is written in the decrées themselues and in the Maister of the sentences That all these things to wit the trauaile and labour that they bestowe vpon the funerals the beautifying of their buryall the pompe of the exequics and buryals are more to comfort those that be aliue then for to ayde the dead If the precious and costly buryall profiteth any thing the wicked the vile and contemptible buryall shall hurt the good or if he doe remayne vnburyed That rich man of whom Iesus Christ speaketh off had a great number of seruants and courtisans clothed in purple and sumptuous apparaile who made for him moste excellent funerals and buryed hym very costly to al mens sight But the Ministering of the Angells made a greate deale more noble before the face of the Lorde that of the poore begger whome they carried not to bée buryed But carryed it into Abrahams bosome Beholde the wordes of S. Augustine who declareth vnto vs that we must not dispise the dead bodyes and denie vnto them their buryall for to testifie and witnesse the hope that wée haue of the resurrection and that we should estéeme them no lesse then a ring or a badge which they haue left vnto vs the which we would gladly hide and kepe for the loue of them Also we ought not to thincke that the faythfull can be in nothing of lesse strength and to receiue any hurte before God when they abide vnburyed as it oftentimes chauused as it is written The dead bodyes of thy seruaunts haue they giuen vnto the soules of the Aire to be deuoured and the flesh of thy Saincts vnto the beastes of the land Their bloude haue they shed lyke water on euerye side of Hierusalem and there was no man to bury them But yet neuerthelesse although that those things séeme to be
hard cruell yet notwithstandinge before the face of the Lorde the death of his Saincts are precious The Panims themselues that haue had any vnderstanding were not muche carefull of the buryall although that many superstitious Idolaters haue thought that it bringeth greate hurt vnto those that haue not bene buryed Now euen as the cost which is done about the dead bodyes for their buryalles profiteth lesse vnto them then to anye other As muche may we thinke iudge of all the suffrages and cost that is done for them after their death and buriall as Saincte Augustine doth playnelye declare vppon thys place of the Plalmes They call their landes after theyr owne names What is that They bringe saith hée breads and wine vnto the graues and call it there the name of the dead How much or how often dost thou thincke that the name of that rich man hath bene called vppon afterwardes when men were dronken in remembringe him and one droppe of colde water dyd not discende to quench his hot tongue Men doe serue their bellye and not the soules of their parentes and friendes There commeth nothing vnto the soules of their deade but that whiche they haue done wyth them being alyue But if béeinge alyue they haue done nothing wyth them there commeth nothing vnto the dead What reproch had the men which vnderstoode not what they should doe wyth their ryches when they lyued and which dyd thincke that they should bée blessed if they had a memoriall in a Tombe of marble stone as an eternall house or if their parents friends vnto whom they shall leaue their goods do call their lands after their names But on the contrary they ought to prepare for themselues an euerlasting house in good workes They ought to prepare for themselues the immortall life to send the cost charges before them to follow their works to haue good regard of their néedy cōpaignion to giue vnto him with whom they do walke not to dispise Iesus Christ to wit his poore members lying ful of botches sores before the gate who hath sayd Inasmuch as you haue done it vnto one of the least of these my brethren ye haue done it to me Doth not héere Sainct Augustine cléerely say that man must do his good déeds almose not vnto the sat Moonks Priests but to the poore members of Iesus whilest the hée is héere in the way For after the he shal be out of this world the good déds almose the their parents friends do bestow of their riches profiteth them nothing at all Wherto also agreeth the which S. Hierome speaketh off saying he which shal not obtein pardō of his sins whilest the he liueth in this body shal so depart this life he perisheth to god leaueth to be Although the be do make himself subject to paines By those dronken bankets of whch Sainct Augustine speaketh off wée may sufficiently vnderstand what was the custome of the Panims which for an affection that they dyd beare vnto their parents friends for a desire that they had and also for a pompe and glorye haue dedicated some of them the thirde the seauenth ninth or tenth day others the thirtie or fortie daye for to make remembraunce for the dead and to offer for them and make feastes and bankets And haue not ordained those dayes wythout putting superstition to the number of them And yet neuerthelesse wee doe sée that the Christians altogether and wholly haue followed that manner of dooinge as it appeareth bothe by their practise and also by the booke of Durand Although that Sainct Ambrose others after him haue made Sermons decrées against that custome the which notwithstandinge coulde not be so cleane taken away and abolished but that that superstitō continueth almost euery where For men do celebrate the seauenth day tenth day anwersaries or yeare mindes wyth great bankets and pleasures as it appeareth by the canons and decrées in which it is written after this sorte No Prieste shall in any wise presume to be droncken when hée commeth to the yeare minde or to the trentenarie or to the seauenth daye or ternary of any office for the dead or to anye contraire or brotherhoode And that hée drincke nor quaffe when hée shall hée desyred for the loue and in the name of the Sainctes or for the loue of the soule of him that is deade nor that hée doo not also compell others to drinike and that he doo not play the glutton and fyll himselfe to muche wyth good chéere at the request of an other And that hée presume not to rehearse and recyte iestes and vnlawfull scoffinges playes and vaine fables nor by anye meanes to singe And that he suffer not that one shoulde make before hym vyle games and toyes and that hée consente not that one shoulde bringe before hym false visages and maskes of Dyuelles For that is dyabolicall and forbiden of the holy Canons We maye well vnderstand by that decrée of the counsayle what honestie the Priestes and Christians haue kept in such bankets sith that they must make lawes by the counsailes and wherein they differed from the Panims Wherefore if the good auncient fathers haue made anye memory of the deade it was after that sorte and manner as wée haue already spoken off and for to abolysh by that meanes the superstitious fashions of the Panims and to chaunge them to better manners sith that they cannot pluck them away altogether For if such religion was pleasinge vnto God it was meruayle that God dyd not as well ordayne certeyne feastes sacrifices and ceremonies for the dead as he hath done in all other thinges and many which séeme not to be so necessary as those héere doe estéeme the offering for the dead whom they doe grieue more then any commaundement that God hath euer gyuen If that were cōprised in the loue that we owe vnto our neighbour how could the spirite of God holde his peace Iesus Christ and saint Paul his Apostle who haue so much stroue against it and commaunded loue towardes our neighbour and haue not once spoken any word to make prayers almoste nor sacrifices for the dead If that same had bene necessary and according to the will of God why would they haue more hidden it from vs then any other thinge howe can that which Iesus Christ and also his Apostles haue sayde be true that they haue declared and manifested vnto vs all the wyll of God Doe we not then vnto them greate iniury to make that a commaundement of loue and charitie of whiche they haue neuer spoken off But I am not abashed sithe that almost in all other thinges the Priestes dooe followe the Panims and the Iewes the Mosoycall Ceremonyes abolyshed by Iesus Christe howe they haue not followed them in this matter and that they doe not absteyne to come néere the deade and to assist them at their buryalles as
the auncient Priestes of the lawe vnto whome GOD hath forbidden it For if they woulde bée Iewes and followe them in older thinaes they oughte also to followe them in thys or to yéelde a reason wherefore they followe them in one thing and not in an other Hillarius they had rather to followe the Gentyles and Panims in this behalfe For their Ceremonies and superstytions doo bringe vnto them more profite the which they followe notwithstandinge they are nothing worthe as I haue alreadye sayde Wherefore I thincke that they would haue made to others a lawe gathered out of all that whiche was euyll and wycked Theophilus It is then easelye to bée vnderstanded by all those thinges that the prayse that Neomi dyd gyue vnto Ruth sayinge The Lorde deale as kindlye wyth you as ye haue dealte wyth the dead And vnto Booz in lyke manner praysinge hym for that hée hath kepte for the deade that same grace and lyberalytie as he did vnto the liuinge regarding not the Masses prayers songes and sacrifices whiche they haue done for them But the loue and charitie that they haue shewed towardes the parents and friendes of the dead that be liuing Wherefore the holy Scripture declareth what mercy we ought to haue of the dead and what good déedes God requyreth of vs for them The prayers offerings and good deedes that Ruth that good wydowe did make for hir husbande that was dead was that she kept company faith and loyaltie wyth Noemi hir Mother in lawe hir husbandes mother A poore widowe both of husbande and children as shée hirselfe was she comforted hir in hir afflictions and aduersities And nourished cherished loued hir was attendaunt vpon hir in hir olde age as though she had bene hir owne mother In like manner the grace and loue that Booz hath also kept done vnto the sonnes of Noemi as well to those that were dead as to those the be liuing that is that euen as during their life he hath exercised loue and charitie towards them in cherising and comfortinge them the lyke affection hath he kept towardes them after they were deade And when he coulde no more ayde and succour them and that they had no more neede of him hée hath declared his loue that he dyd beare vnto them towardes the wydowes mothers and wiues of whome he hath had pittie and compassion hath hulpen them both in body goods procuring wyth all his power the honour and profite both of the one of the other vntill he did take to wyse that poore widowe Ruth the Moabite which was y graundmother of Dauid and hir remembraunce is celebrated with the same of Booz hir husbande in the gonealogy of Iesus Christe Wherefore we may knowe howe much the woorke bothe of the one of the other hath pleased God what remembraunce we ought to haue of the dead Thomas I doe finde that to bée the best waye to bestowe and giue the almose vnto the poore widowes and fatherlesse children for that is the true Religion then for to take their goodes and bestowe them vppon the dead or to waste and consume them vppon bawdes and harlots and vpon their children in like manner Hillarius I warrant you they will not followe any good example nor the certeine commaundement of God but what do they follow in this matter When I haue wel read ouer and ouer againe all the holy Scripture I doe not finde one worde And the most auncientest that I can finde which did first bringe in those manner of dooings among the Panims was Pluto of whome we will speake off héereafter whome the Docts and the Panims haue made the God of the soules and the king of the dead and of hell After him came Aeneas who did bringe that custome into Italy After Aeneas Romulus and Numa the Kinges of the Romaines afterwardes our Popes who haue contynued augmented and confirmed still more and more those errours and abuses Althoughe that the Panyms hadde yet a certeyne better opynion in the same then our superstitious Papystes hadde For they dyd not make the sacryfices for the deade for the estymation that they hadde that that shoulde serue them for to deliuer them from paines but for to appease them to the ende that their spirites shoulde not hurt them and doe them euill if they had displesed them when they were aliue For Plato himselfe who hath bene the one of the chiefest forgers inuenters of Purgatory witnesseth plainely that the parents friends cānot profit y dead And therfore saith he the parents friends and kinsslolkes ought to admomshe their friends that they do liue well and honestly and to do presently vnto them that good For there to wytte after this life they cannot giue it thē And before the iudgement seat there shall not be any great company of parents friends which shall mainteine and defende and intreate y Iudge and which canne obtaine of him that he wil pardon thée Theophilus I would to God that all our diuines bad no more euill and wicked opinions then that panim touching the dooings of the dead and that they had saide noe sentence lesse to be credited then this Thomas If the panims did not meane y their sacrifices commemoration should profit the dead wherefore did they it then Hillarius It might be that they did thinke that there might retourr◠vnto them some little profit But yet neuerthelesse their cheife intent and purpose was to appease the soules of the dead and to reconcile them vnto them by that meanes to the end they should not hurt them either in their bodies or goods euen as they haue accustomed to celebrate scasts and to do sacrifices vnto the soules of holy men whom they did think to be in heauen with the gods for to haue ayd and solace as Aeneas did vnto his Father Anchises And all that errour procéeded from the false opinion that they had of the soules and for want of knowing their nature and estate therefore they iudged after their owne sence and vnderstanding and not after the word of god As they do also of the bodies thinking at the least the most supersticyous as it hath bene alreadye touched that the soule doth walke a certaine time if their bodyes hath not bad y honor of the burial such as apertameth was meete for them And that the bodies were in daunger of Enchantors and sorcerers which would abuse them thorow their Nycromancic coniuration And the Hebrewe Rabins and doctors of the Iewes and in no lesse dreaming For they say that the dead body is left in the power of the diuell who calleth him selfe Zazell and doe wrest and turne those places of the scripture for to confirme their erroure vnto whom it is said vnto the Serpent Thou shalt eate of the earth all the dayes of thy life And in another place The earth shal be the Serpents meate They woulde conclude
wee ought not to doubte but that that faithe hath imprinted suche a crosse and such a signe and marke in our hearts and bodies the the diuel dareth not to approch nor come nigh them And if that same is not sufficient there is none other after our death which can serue vs Furthermore sith that God hath giuen vnto vs his Angels for to serue kéepe defend vs let vs not feare that as they haue caâ—ted the soule of Lazarus into Abrahams bosome and haue kepte and defended the body of Moses from the power of the diuell and did striue and fight for it against them but that they wil be also assisting vnto all true faithfull people for to kéepe their bodies soules according to the charge and commission that they haue of God and that God himselfe woulde bury them rather as he hath buried Moses then to suffer that Sathan shoulde haue domination or rule ouer them Wherfore I do greatly feare that the bodies and reliques which the idolatrous christians do worshippe and honour vnder the name and title of the saincts saintes are not the true bodies and reliques of the Saincts and true seruants of God but rather those of some malefactory or wicked man and abhominable before god For it euer any bodyes were lefte vnder the power of the olde Serpent and of the Diuell those be they of whom men haue made Idols which haue ben set vp for relicks for to be adored worshipped which haue bene the occasion among the Christian people of the greatest Idolatry the euer was in the worlde Wherefore it is most lykest to be true that the diuell maketh himselfe to be worshipped and honoured by the bodyes in which he dwelled and of which he was serued during their lyfe then in those whiche haue bene the Temple of the lyuing God and which haue serued to his honour and glory forsaking altogether the diuell and his seruice The Iewes and Cabalysts haue estéemed those purifications and ceremonyes about the dead of which we haue spoken to be necessary to their bodyes bicause that the Magicians and coniurers haue vsed to steale them awaye or to take certayne members from them for to serue for their witchcraftes to make them instruments of the diuell as it appeareth by the witnesse of many auncient writings and historyes Hillarius Lucan declareth it very playnely describing the Witchcraftes and Sorceryes of Erichtho For that same cause the custome was in Thessalia the which hath alwayes had the name to be full of Enchaunters Witches and Coniurers that when any man was dead a certeine Seriaunt or common Heralde cryed with a loude voyce in the open stréete that if there were any man which woulde kéepe a dead body lette him come foorth and bargaine and agrée for the price Thomas Wherefore did they so haue the dead bodyes in Thessaly vsed to run away or whether they were more daungerous then in other countryes Hillarius Thou mayst well knowe that the deade bodyes can no more byte any man and that they are in an euil case for to runne away sith the they must be carryed to be buryed their seete stretched out right before But I thinke that thou hast not forgotten that which we haue spoken of the Panyms how that they doe not bury their dead by and by and the causes wherefore And therefore the Thessalians vsed to keepe their dead al the night vntil the day that they burned their bodies and buried their ashes bicause they had that opinioÌ„ that the sorcerers did come in the night and did byte their faces and dismember them for to serue them for their enchauntements and witchcraftes and for to doe the same they transforme and chaunge them selues into the forme and likenes of what beast they list sometime into the likenes of birdes some time like dogs or myce yea into the likenes of very flyes and afterwards doe flye and come into the houses and enter so subtilly and secretly that none cane perceiue it And when they are entred within they thorowe their enchauntements doe make those that keepe them fall into a slepe afterwards they doe vnto the dead bodies what it pleaseth them For that cause the parents and frinds of the dead did hire kéepers for a péece of money for to watch all the night by the dead bodie without sléeping any thing at all not so much as to winke or to turne their face here and there but to haue theyr eyes alwayes fixed vpon the dead body After that they haue founde out keepers whiche will take vppon them that charge they deliuer the body vnto them in charge hauing witnesses how they haue deliuered it all whole and sound afterwards they shut them into a chamber with the dead body and a lampe full of Oyle for to giue them light vntill the morning and water within vessels And if he that kéepeth it do not take good héede of the body the next day whatsoeuer is wanting or diminished of the dead body that he hath euil and negligently kept hee is bounde to restore and recompence it of his owne proper face Thomas These people were verye fooles to beléeue such follyes Who hath written the same Hillarius A good doctor called Apuleus whiche saith that he hath done that office himselfe Thomas Truely thou hast very well founde it Peraduenture he hath séene the same whilest that he was chaunged into an Asse Hillarius I do confesse that the same is a great dreaming But do not the christians almost the like doe not they also watche the dead bodies with a candle and holy water Are they afrayd that they would runne away or least the Cattes or Mice should come and gnawe the féete and the face of the dead or whether they are afraid of witches and coniurers or that the diuell shoulde carry them away as one hath written of some whose bodies are not yet toune if God hath giuen power vnto the diuels ouer the dead bodies the water candles fire nor incense shall not make them afrayd nor yet the witchecraftes and coniurations except they will say that they do vse charme against charme and that theirs is more stronger then those of the enchauntors Theophilus It is not now néede that they take such paines for to driue awaye the diuels or the socerers from them For their was neuer forcerer coniurer nor enchauntor that abused more vile and shamefully the bodies of men nor to the greater dishonoure of God and hurte of all the Christianitie then the Priestes and Moonks who in steade of the coniuring that is to say diuination by the dead that the Panyms and Infidels haue exercised and vsed they haue set vp erected a necrolatrie that is to say an adoration and worshipping of the dead and the most greatest Idolatrie that euer was vpon the earth And haue made the bodies of men to serue the diuell haue made him to be worshiped
deade which were truely Christians And hath commaunded that the Priestes ought to make commemoration of them Dne may very well presume by that aduertisement and commaundement that which Gregory made vnto Boniface touching this matter that it is not long agoe that the Masse hath begonne to bee a sacrifice for the dead and that the institution is not so auncient as some men do thinke it to bee at the least-wise that Iesus Christ and his Apostles haue not bene the author thereoff For Boniface would not haue kept it secret in that time Wherefore I giue more credite vnto those whiche haue written that Pope Pelagius hath bene the author inuentor and promoter of those suffrages and prayers the which we sée dayly yet in vse amonge the Christians and we call them the good déedes for the dead then to any of those which haue followed the Apostles Eusebius If you had reade ouer and ruminated the auncient doctors of the Churche you shall not finde that doctrine so newe but you woulde speake otherwise and should know that the Churche hath followed it of long time before that Pelagius or Sainct Gregory were borne Wherefore then did Sainct Ambrose make mention writing of the death of the Emperour Theodosius of the first seuenth thirty and fourty day that the Churche did celebrate making remembraunce of the dead and for what cause they did the same of whome the wordes are written in the decrées after this manner Bicause that some haue vsed to obserue the thirde caye other some the seuenth and others the thirty in the office of the dead Let vs consider what thing that lesson in the scripture teacheth vs It saith After that Iacob was dead Ioseph commaunded his seruants that they should bury him And the children of Israel buried him and the forty dayes beeing accomplished for so were the daies of the burial compted they lamented seuen dayes We ought to follow that solemnitie the whâ—che the holy scripture describeth vnto vs It is also written after this manner in Deuteronomium that the children of Israel lamented Moses and did wepe thirty dayes and then the mourning was ended heth those two obseruations haue then authoritie by the which the necessary office of piety and humanity is accomplished Doe you not sée here plainely by the words of Sainct Ambrose that already in his time the Churche did the office and commemoration of the dead and did celebrate in their memory certaine dayes and yet the auncients haue not instituted them after the inutation and example of the Panyms and Idolaters as you say and affirme but after that imitation of the auncient Patriarkes and Prophets and of the people of God Theophilus I am abashed I knowe not whether I shall speake it of the ignorance mallice of your doctors For if they vnderstande that Saincte Ambrose hathe allowed that which they at this day do vphold and maintaine they do greatly erre and shewe themselues to be verye ignoraunt Also if they vnderstand his intention and meaning they are very malicious and wicked to peruerte and marre the sence of the same for to maintaine their abuses and alwayes the more to kéepe the poore people in errour Firste they well perceiue and sée that Sainct Ambrose maketh no mention neither of Purgatory nor of Masse for the dead and that that place cannot serue but for the sorrow that men take for the dead For yet in that time the Churche approched néerer vnto the puritie of the primatiue Churche and was not so muche corrupted as she hath bene afterwards sithence the time of Pope Pelagius and of Gregory the greate This then that he maketh mention of the first seuenth thirty and forty daye in his booke and sermon that hée made of the death and buriall of Theodosius is not set forth by him for to nourishe and holde the pepole in the supersticions of the Panyms as you doe but rather to draw them backe from it and for to induce and leave the Christians vnto more greater honesty and modestye to the sorrowe that they ought to haue for the dead For that cause did he propound and set foorth the example of the Israelites not that he woulde thereby make a law vnto the Christian people that they shoulde mourne seuen thyrty nor forty dayes bicause that the Israelites haue mourned so many dayes for lacob Moses Aaron and Marie their sister yet lesse for to cause Masses to be said and to banket and make the priests broken as they do dayly at the Portuaries and Anniuersaries For then he should teache the Christian people to playe the Iewes and sinne against the Christian liberty if hee woulde of all the examples of the Scripture and of the thinges done by the Israelites draw out take lawes and statutes for to commaunde them vnto the Christian people as necessarie and ordeyned of god For first of all God neuer hath defined nor determined by his lawe certaine dayes nor yet to lament and mourne for the dead nor for to make any commemoration of them as it appeareth very well by the examples asore alledged For the Israelites themselues haue not kept a certaine number of dayes at the mourninge of Iacob Moses Aaron and of Marie For they did kéepe Iacob in Aegypt fortie dayes after that hee was enbaumed and the Aegyptians bewept him Ixx dayes He was carried into Hebron afterwards his sonnes bewept him seuen dayes in Atad But Moses Aaron and Marie their sister were beewept euerye one of them thirty dayes Thou doest see alreadie here that they are not very superstitious in the dayes and that some time they haue vsed eyther more or lesse It should séeme that their ordiuary was but for seuen dayes For it is written Seuen dayes do men mourne for him that is dead but the lamentation ouer the vnwise shoulde endure all the dayes of their life But when it is for some noble personne as for a Prince or a Prophet or anye man of great estimation and renome they woulde of custome prolonge theyr mournynges vntyll thyrtie dayes But they woulde not wyliyngly passe béeyond it as wée sée here in these three examples of Moses Aaron and Marie who were bewept and lamented of the people of Israel asmuche and more then anye other euer were The mourning of Iacob was a little more loÌ„ger bycause he was carried to be buryed a great way and that they carried him from the land of Aegypt into the land of Canaan not that they esteemed the land of Canaan more holy then that of Aegypt as touching his nature or that it had any more vertue for the health of the body or soule of him that was buryed there as the superstitious Christians and poore ignorant do iudge of the earth in the churchyarde bicause that it was blessed and halowed by their Bishops and Priests But they did that for to witnes in the article of the
sicke and that he had some hope of lyfe he watched fasted and prayed making request vnto God for the childe and dyd lye flat on the earth and during the space of seuen dayes all those of his house no not his auncients and counsellers could not make him to lye on a bed nor to aryse vp from the earth nor to eate nor drinke with them vntyll such tyme he vnderstoode that the childe was dead the which thing none of his seruaunts durst tell him off thinking that he would haue bene mernaylously sadde and pensise after that hée should bée aduertised of his deathe sith that all the time of his sickenesse whilest that there was yet some hope of lyfe he alwayes wepte and lamented But it happened cleane contrarye For as soone as hée knewe for a certeynetie that the childe was dead he arose from the earth and washed and anoynted himselfe and chaunged his apparell and went into the house of the Lord and prayed and after came to his own house and bad that they should set meate before him and he did eate And made greater cheere then before whereoff his seruaunts were much abashed and asked him what is this that thou hast done vnto whom he aunswered while the childe was a lyue I fasted and wepte For I thus thought who can tell whether God will haue mercy on me that the childe may lyue But now séeing it is dead wherefore should I fast Can I bring him agayne any more I shall goe to him but hée shall not come agayne to me Dauid teacheth vs a good lesson and learneth vs to praye the one for the other while wée bée in this lyfe and to make prayers vnto God and to lament and mourne for our bretheren and neighbours whilest they are alyue whether they be in health or sicke prosperitie or aduersitie and not after they be dead For whilst that they be sicke we ought to pray for them that it would please God to pardon their sinnes and ours to giue vnto them health and to suffer them a while to be with vs and comfort vs to serue moreouer vnto his church if he know that the same is most expedient for the glory of his name and our profite For whilest that man is sicke we know not certeynly what God meaneth to boe with him We know very well that his wil cannot be but good that he wil dispose all things to the best But we cannot know perticulerly wythout a singuler reuelation whether that it be better that the sick person doe lyue or dye both for him and for vs Wherefore we ought to pray and weepe for him whilest that we can ayde and helpe him and that he is yet alyue with vs in the which we haue place to repent to obteyn pardon for our sinnes and we ought chiesly to bewayle the poore sinners whom we see to goe to perdition as Samuel bewept Saul séeing him forsaken of God And Sainct Paule the Corinthians whom he law to be deteyned and kept in sinnes if it would please God to haue mercy vpon them But sith that God hath once declared vnto vs his will we must holde our selues vnto the same and to take no more care for those whome God hath called vnto himselfe from among vs but we ought onely to aduise and sludie how we should dispose and order our selues for to follow them after the example of Dauid Wherevnto agreeth very wel the doctrine of Daynct Iames who admonusheth the faithfull if any of them bee diseased to call vnto them the true Priests of the Gospell and Elders of the congregation for to comfort them with the worde of God and for to praye for them that they may haue the forgiuenes of their sinnes and to comfort and procure all that they can for the health of their bodyes and soules and for their health and thorow prayers and oyntments and other lyke things which God hath giuen vnto the primitiue Church the which hath receyued the gyfte to doe miracles and in the which the Apostles did miraculously heale the diseased Anoynting them with oyle not after the manner as the Papisticall Priestes doe which doe anoynt the diseased not thorow the hope that they haue to heale them For if they did thinke that they should heale them they would not anoynt them Hillarius They would not doe so For they should loose much nor they should haue so many fatte hydes Theophilus For that same cause they call that vnction extreme and the last sacrament And they giue it not for the health of the body nor for to heale the diseased as the Apostles did nor to that intent as Saint Iames hath written but did giue it for the health of the soule as thoughe their holy oyle could penetrate in the same and that the haly Ghost and forgiuenesse of sinnes wertied vnto the oyle I know not whereto the vnction can serue for the poore diseased such as the do vse sith that thei haue no promises of god that the gift of miracles is not giuen vnto thē as vnto the Apostles to that primitiue church they do none other thing but read the Psalter babble it in a strange language vnto the sicke person of which he receiueth no instruction nor any consolation at all Hillarius If thou know not wherto that vnction serueth I will tell thée First that is a witnesse for to proue that in that same they are the Apes of the Apostles for to counterfet their workes and myracles as they counterfetted those of Iesus Christ in the Baptisine of young children Afterward it serueth vnto the diseased for to make them hope to be healed as the comming of the hangman vnto the théeues when they doe sée him For they know right wel that he is the messenger of death So when the poore patients séeing the Priestes comming with their Creame bores Dyle and Drogues they may well thinke that men accompt them for deade and their time is come For such Phisitians haue not accustomed to come nor to bring their Triacle but at the very houre that the sicke person is abandoned and forsaken of other Phisitians They may iudge that their hangman is come who careth nor for the soule but requireth onely the body and the spoylyng thereoff Theophilus There is nothing truer Wherefore they cannot alledge Saint Iames for their defence nor also the auncient doctors whom they would take for bucklers for al their matters They make a great accompt of Denis who hath written the celestiall and ecclesiasticall Hierarchies saying that that is Saynct Denis of Athens who was conuerted by the preaching of Saynt Paul which is not lyke to be true For the stile of those bookes sinelleth not lyke vnto that of the Apostles nor of their tyme Furthermore Eusebius in his ecclesiasticall history maketh mention so dilygently of the bookes of Denis Bishoppe of Corinth and neuer maketh any mention of those of Denis
which were common to all the dead according to the viuersitie of the countries nations as the case requireth the person which dyed they had other feasts Annirersaries more perticular either for one or for many as the Greekes had a custome to celebrate the xbj day of the moneth of September the Dbsequies Anniuersaries of those which dyed in the war fighting against the Persinns as witnesseth Plutarch Also he witnesseth the at Rome they did the like in the moneth of November for the Gaulois Frechmen Greekes which haue bene buried in the place which was called the Bullock market And Gicero Titus Liuius do offeÌ„times make inention of such feast dayes of the Panims and good déeds Theophilus He hath learned by those things euen as we do sée dayly the lilte practise in our Popes prelates of the Church who haue alwayes added ceremonies vpon ceremonies superstition vpon superstition Idolatry vpon Idolatry haue dayly augmented them sith that they are once begun insomuch that it is not possible that they can procéede any further For we do surmount excéed already long since all the auncient Idolaters in Idolatry Wherfore we haue better occasion to complaine then S. Augustine had in his time which differed much from ours And yet neuerthelesse he did greatly complaine of the multitude of ceremonies and superstitions with which alreadye the Church was then ouercharged corrupted Therefore said he our Lord Iesus Christ willing to giue vnto his church a great liberty would not make it to be subiect vnto many ceremonies but onely vnto a little certeine number of sacraments And yet neuerthelesse it is nowe so much charged that the condition of the Iewes who were vnder the shadowes and figures and the seruitude and bondage of the lawe is more tollerable then ours and chiesly in that that the ceremonies which they had were giuen vnto them of God but those which haue ben brought into the Cstristtan Church are nothing els but mans presumptions inuentions of presumptious and ouerbolde men Hillarius Truely he should haue now other occasion to write the same if he did sée the traine that the Papistes doe holde as well towardes the quicke as towardes the dead wee may assuredly affirme that Pluto was no lesse the authour of the Dbsequies Funerals Dbites Legates Anniuersaries and other like things which are at this daye vsed among the Christians as among the Panims For Pluto is the God of riches And what hath bene the first cause and firste foundation of all these thinges and of Purgaforye and of those dependaunces and the occasion of so much augmenting increasing of them but the insatiable auarice couetousnesse of the great Romish Pluto of his Mercuries other like Gods which are ioyned with him For if we by iust occasion do cal him Pluto we haue no lesse occasioÌ„ to compare both him his vnto Mercurie whose office is among the Gods to lead bring the soules in those Plutonical infernal regions kingdomes after that they be seperated from the body He hath to dooe now in heauen now in the earth and by by in hell The which thing was one of the causes wherfore the Panims did paint his picture Image hauing thrée heads In steed whereoff our Pluto hath his thrée crownes for to declare that he hath power in heauen earth hel and that he holdeth the place of Hecate vnto whom the Idolaters do attribute thrée formes and such a power the which the Pope doth attribute vnto himselfe altogether For he is mounted and ascended into such arrogancie and pride that hée dare take vpon him to commaunde the Angelles and the Dyuels and to stretch foorth his hande euen to the hells for to pull from thence the soules and those which are thether descended but it is after that sort as Orpheus went to seke his wife Eurydice Pollux his brother Castor Theâ— seus and Pyrothus who rauished Proserpina Dr as Hercules descended thether for to bring away Cerberus For I doubt not but that these poeticall fables do containe as much truth as that which that Pope would make vs to beléeue And I beléeue that his Musitions Singers haue no more tertue then the Harpe of Orpheus for to drawe the soules from Purgatory But he hath a Harpe vpon which hée playeth better then euer Orpheus did For by the meanes of the same he eateheth euery thing nothing escapeth him but y he bringeth al things vnder his wing Wherfore we may rightly attribute vnto him thrée heads as vnto Mercurie Cerberus thrée bodies as vnto Geryon sith that he hath such credit with the celestial infernal gods that he coÌ„maundeth that. Angels of heauen that they bring vnto the ioyes of paradise the soule of him who for his pardons goeth to Rome that he be deliuered from Purgatory And he sayth yet moreouer we wil not that the paine of hel be any thing at al inioyned vnto such a persoÌ„ And it is not sufficient for him to vsurps such authoritie seigniory vpon hyn but he doth also giue that power vnto those which do receiue his Cromade â—o deliuer from Purgatory thrée or foure soules yea such as they will themselues Thomas Is it possible that he is so shamelesse ouerbold Hillarius The Bull of Pope Clement may beare witnes of it the which is kept yet at this day well sealed with seales of lead at Vienna Limoges Poictiers in the coffers of that priuiledges It is very true that the SorboÌ„nists of Paris would not allow it but condempned it But yet neuerthelesse it must néeds be that it must passe by their hands He hath also a great many other proverties in him for the which one may compare both him his vnto Mercurie who was in like manner holden accompted of the Panims for the God of gaine of merchants deceiuers hers théeues And therfore they painted him with a serip did set his Image in the middle of the market before the gates of the houses for to kéepe them for to driue away the other théeues bicause that he was the greatest Prince of others For did the earth bring foorth euer such deceiuers abusers and liers such merchaunts and more couetous of filthy gaine They may well cary the scriâ— For that is the cabin from which do come foorth all these lawes canons decrees for to yet the money both of the liuing and also of the dead And hee caryeth not the key wythout a cause for to open and shut the gates and to empty the coffers and scrippes and to take awaye the praye from other théeues of whome hée is the Capitayne At the leastwise none can denfe but that the doctrine of the Panims as muche as concerneth the dead is more reasonable then that of the Papistes For althoughe that the Theologians of the
massy But when the auncients doe speake of the shadowes of those that bee dead they vnderstand not properly their soules but their visiōs and fantafficall figures which do watch about the Sepulchers and do shew themselues as shadowes in the forme and likenes of bodies which yet neuerthelesse were not vanished away when 〈◊〉 did come nigh them and when one did thinke to tonche them as a shadow and smoke Thomas I doe verily beleeue that those doe not much diminish the meates Eusebius Also one may well knowe that there is now none so foolish that doth thinke that the soules do eate the offrings But we doe cary them at their feast dayes for to nourish the seruants of God thorow whose prayers by reason of the Masses good déedes that they do vpon such dayes for them they haue deliuerance and rest Hillarius That is the cause wherefore their Bing pluto Neoptolemus Eacus Minos Radamantus that criminall Iudges of the Infernall courte and of those Plutonicall Regions do open vnto them the charters prysons of Purgatory do giue vnto them fielde playes and pastimes and leaue to play a litle as the Schoole maisters do giue vnto their scollers for to take some recreation pastime euen as Mantuan witnesseth saying As ofte as men their Sacrafice By almes or seasts do make Or els by prayers they do thinke the needies thirst to slake To bellies rage and pamperd flesh a brydell they do set And to the gods they do poure out their prayers from heart yfet By meanes whereoff the furious rage of windy force is layd For gods thereto agreed hath which makes them well apayd By vse whereoff and gods good grace they haue both mirth and ioye And saue them from the hellish rage that doth their soules anoye It were good reason that they should haue at the least once or twice in the yeare some good Aristotolicall dayes for to delite and refresh themselues and for to bring them out of these hot and burning furnaces I pray thee thinke what ioye they do make when that they feele perceiue their feast to drawe nigh in whiche they looke to haue some libertie and to finde some little grace and fauoure of their king Pluto by whom I meane him of whom the Frenche Poet hath written after this manner in his hell It is the holy name of Pope that hellish hounds imbrace And vvith his stole can cull them in vvinne them to his grace But fearest thou not that monster great that doth affirme say That hell to ope and also shut he both them can and may Yea he it is by scorching heate that martir can the soules And thousand thousands ryd he can from heate of parching coals I think that then he holdeth his keyes in the right hand for to let loose a little these poore soules that they should laugh and bee merry if that be true which a holy father preached at Bordeaux saying and affirming that when one offereth for the dead and that the soules do heare the sounde of the money which falleth ting ting in the basin or the bore prepared to receiue the offring they receiue so great ioy and do beginne somuch to laugh that they do make a noyse ha ha ha hi hi hi. What wilt thou more should one spoyle and robbe them of their laughing Thomas And did that holy father laugh so in the pulpit Hillarius Thou doest well know that the play had bene nothing worth otherwise and it behoueth that a good player of iests and games do reprcsente and make all the lestures and partes of the parsonnes whose parte he playeth And wilt thou know whether he spake it in carnest or not I beléeue that hée did sweare that it was so by his brest by the faith of his Pricsthoode and by the Masse hée song this daye and the God that hee had eaten But for to returne unto the bankettes of the soules howe muche doest thou thincke that they haue spente I thincke that they doe lesse burte unto those meates then the flyes and that they dooe but lych a lyttle upon it Wherefore one cannot perceiue the cost for to recken to them their shot Neuerthelesse although that accoroing to the Theology of Ouid they are contēted with a little yet they are notwithstanding meruailously sorrowfull and angry and doe rage out of measure when one forgetteth them without making any accompt doing his duetie towardes them and doe auenge themselues rigorouslye as the Theologyan before alledged wytnesseth speaking of that matter and of theyr feaste saying When doubtfull chaunco of victory vvith foes in field was tride Then sunerals for parents soules was layed cleane aside And though that flames for corses dead did heat the wals of Rome Yet seapt they not vnpunished by iust and rightfull dome He meaneth by the same that they were stroken wyth so terrible diseases and so great mortalitie that euery daye men ceased not to make great fires in the suburbes of the Citie for to burne the bodyes of those which dayly dyed to a great number Thomas But how haue the Romaines imagined that their euyll procéeded thereby For they had a certein excuse bicause of the great affaires that they had Hillarius Dur Doctour before alledged expoundeth also the manner how the same came unto theyr knowledge saying The graundfathers reported are by night from Tombe to come And in those times doe much bewayle the wrongs vnto them done For sacrifice not for them made their soules by streetes doe glide And through fieldes and desarts great in wofull dole doe slide They learned to their coste not to dispise and forget any more the soules they did set such good order that they neuer afterwaids tt eir realt and solemuitie was forgotten and onlitted without beeing ducly celebrated as it ought to be according to the auncient manner Thomas And did that profit them any thing al all Hillarius Marke the aunswer and witnes of the same Doctor saying But after sacrifices donne that did surcease of yore These monstrous shapes and mortall plagues afflicted them no more Who will deuy but that Ouid was a true Prophet of the Popes who hath prefigured and described in his feasts and Calender the feastes and popish Religion soe well in euery point that there is no more to bee spoken of it for what other thing is the popishe Religion then the contmucation and maintenance of the auncient Rome the which this man here hath succeeded obserued and kept all in all Theophilus He hath hit the nayle on the head Wherfore you do no wronge friend Eusebius in saying that you would liue as your predecessors For those olde Idolatrous Romaines are your true predecessors sith that you will follow them not that Prophets Apostles of Iesus Christ And euen as those fictions appearing of spirites shadowes serued among the Panyins but for to nourish keepe and
hath made al things for himselfe of whom all proceeded and vnto whom it muste â—t urne againe Theophilus It is very true Hillarius I demaund of thee more ouer vnto what ende doest thou thinke that all those popishe ceremonies do tende As for mée I can perceiue but that they haue taken their sight regarde to none other ende but vnto the money If there bee any which will deny it I will proue it like a good Logicioner the cause by his effects Sith then that the finall cause is the money vnto whose honoure all these lawes do referre themselues and that the same is the author I do also coÌ„clude that it is the God vnto whome all these thinges ought to be brought the which Iesus Christ calleth Mammou if you wil know his name in that Hebrewe or Siriake tongue Dr if you had rather in Greeke we will cal him Plutus whom Aristophanes magnifieth so much that he saith that there is no God so great no not lupiter hymselfe vpon which he hath not rule and dominion which is not subiect vnto him Theophilus That agréeth not euill with the witnesse of Salomon saying vnto money are all thinges obedient Hillarius If you will in like manner giue it a latine name and to make it a Goddsse you may call it Pecunia that is money as the auncient Latinists who haue made of it a Goddesse Wherevnto agréeth very well the common translation in that place which you alledged of Salomon saying vnto money are all things obedient Wherefore I am abashed of that whiche the Poet luuenal hath spoken for that men haue not made vnto it a Temple nor consecrated any Aulter sith that it is so puissant a Goddesse vnto whom is attributed the title of the Dmnipotent and altogether mightie whiche belengeth vnto God alone For it is commonly sayd Money doth althings Theophilus Sainct Augustine following the authoritie of Varro also saith that the auncients haue called that God in Latine Aesculanus because that the first money that was made was of Brasse Hillarius You may already perceiue that Plutus and Pluto were bretheren or at the least cosin Germaines sauinge that the one reigned vppon the earth and the other vnderneath the earthe Nowe forasmuche as that GOD whether you call him Mammon Plutus Pluto Aesculanus or Pecunia bée the Authoure and lawe gyuer of all those lawes by good right and reason hee maye dyspence with them And when they haue his dispensation there remayneth no more sinne as in respecte of the Pope For hee dispenseth with more greater things insomuch that hée will not suffer the vse of mariage to eate flesh and white meates but that one hadde néede to sell GOD to eate and to doe that hee woulde doc I meane the Gods that hee himselfe hathe made and of whiche his Priestes call themselues the makers whiche yet neuerthelesse are but the creatures of the Pope Do not the most greatest Cardinals whiche for suche doe acknowledge and confesse themselues Wherein there standeth a merueilous case the whiche Solin hathe forgotten when that hee made his booke of the meruaples and wounders of the worlde For that is a case the like whereoff was neuer seene that the Creator shoulde be a Creature and the Creature a Ceator as it appeareth by that that the Pope is the Creator of the Cardinals his Creatures Afterwards the Cardinals his Creatures are Creators of their Creator For they doe create and make the Pope After the same manner woulde they dce with their God whiche they make and vnmake afterwards do make him againe as they liste Theophilus For my parts I will net much reply against thy solution But I know not whether that Eusebius wil be contented And therefore I will shewe vnto him other reasons If the Pope and the Priestes doe loue somuch contynencye and chastytye as they make a shewe wherefore haue they not rather followed the counsell of Saint Paule then to sorge and make newe lawes altogether contrary both to the Aposlolicall doctrine and the lawe of God Who is hée that better knoweth man his vertue constance and continencye or his infirmitie fragilitye and incontinency then GOD who hath made and fashioned him and who hathe throughly proued him Then if God who beste did know the burthen of man that hee himselfe woulde not restraine him by lawes of continencye whiche myght haue béene an occasion of sinne and incontinencie but hée hathe ordeyned the holye mariage for a remedye the whiche hée woulde haue common vnto all estates and vnto all sorte of people whiche haue not the gyste of contynencye and that it was permitted at all tymes and seasons Then wherefore is it that those here will compell so longe time men and woemen to liue chaste and doe seperate the Spouse from the Spouses the Dusbande from the wyfe for to giue vnto them occasion to fall into whoredome And they do not the same for two or thrée dayes as the Israelites dyd when GOD woulde manyfest himselfe vnto them in the Mounte Sina They hadde good occasion to sanctifie and prepare themselues for to see and beholde that greate maiestie of God and to receiue that holye lawe that hée would giue vnto them And yet neuerthelesse Moses did not assigne vnto them but thrée dayes for to seperate themselues from their wines Abimelech required no more of Dauid and hys compaignions although that hee did giue vnto them of the halowed breade whiche was not lawefull to eate but for the Priestes of the lawe onelye And yet those thinges are not happened but for one tyme They haue not made lawes nor rules yearely or perpetuall nor common vnto all men In like manner also Ioel gaue not a prefixte day vnto the Israelites but aomonyshed and athorted them only to returne vnto the Lord and to leaue off all other things and to forget all carnall pleasures and delites for to runne vnto his mercy thorow true repentaunce infastinges prayers to the ende he may withdraw his beatings and scorgings the which hee had alreadie stretched fooâ—th euer them But he compelled no man Such erhortations and admonitions are very honest and requisite in the Churche chiefely in the times of calamities miseries when God threateneth vs with his furour Iudgement But it is more then necessarie to follow the moderation the which Sainct Paul in such case hath vsed chiefly in this time now for that the worlde is so much corrupted and depraued and somuch subiect vnto hir carnal affections The Apostle knowing mans infirmitie dursse not forbid mariage to any man of what qualitie soeuer he were off not only for a day but admonished and commauÌ„ded by Gods authoritie vnto all those who haue not the gift of continency and chastity for to reframe themselues without beeing polluted defiled neither in their bodyes or soules thorow the burning concupiscence and worke of the fleshe to mary for
sing the daye of the feaste of Candlemas as it is contayned in the Pissell not that I will recyte word for word all their blessing but onely the principall points for to proue our meaning by the which thou maist iudge of the rest They sing unto God we hubly besech thee that thorow the muecation of thy holy name and by the intercession of the holy uirgin Mary the mother of thy sonne whose feast this day we deuoutely celebrate by the prayers of al thy Saincts that it would please thee to blesse and sanctifie these candles for the use of man and the health of the soules and bodies bee it in the earth or in the waters Beholde their owne proper wordes rehearsed truely worde for worde Where haue they founde that the Candels do serue for the health of the soules and bodies and that they haue any other use theu for to giue light unto the corporall eyes but in the bookes of the Panims But by and afferwards they do say worse Parke then their wordes O Lord Iesus Christ we humbly beseche thee to blesse this creature of war and shead soorth in the same thy heauenly blessing by the vertue of the holy Crosse to the ende that as thou hast guien it unto makinde for to put driue away the darknes it may recelue such force and benediction by the signe of thy holy crosse in what place soeuer it shall be lighted or set that that wicked diuell may flee and tremble and auoyd altogether amased and made a fraide with all his ministers from those habitations and that hée presume no more to trouble those which do serue god And by and by after there is yet more Ido blesse thee thou creature of war in the name of our Lorde God and of the holy Trinitie to the ende thou mayst be the extermination and driuing away of the Diuell and all his complises What mockery is this must the name of GOD bee so abused in Charmes and Witchecraftes For wherein doe these benedictions and blessings dyffer from the charmes and coniuratyons of sorcerers and witches aswell as the Exorcisme and adiuration of their holy water and Salte whiche they put into it What doeth that Exorcisine and adiuration signiste I exercise and adiure thee thou Creature of Salte by the liuing GOD by the true GOD by the holy GOD by the GOD which comnaunded that thou shouldest bee put into the water by the Prophet Eliseus for to heale the sterilitie and barrennes of the waters to the ende thou be made an adiured Salt to the health of them that beleeue to the ende that thou mayst be unto all those which will take thée health of soule and bodye and that all fantasie malyce dsuhtyle crafte of the diuell maye auoyde and depart from the place where thou shalt bee sheade abrcade and all vncleane spirite adiured by him which shall iudge the quicke and the dead and the world with fire Hillarius Thou wilt make vs here by and by holye water Sith that thou hast made the Exorcisine sing nowe the Oremus Theophilus There are no lesse blasphemics in it But sith that thou wilt haue it thou shalt O eternall God altogether mightie we humbly innocate and call vpon thy infinite clemency that it would please thée to blesse †and sanctifie †this creature of Salt the which thou hast giuē for the vse of mankinde to the ende that it may bée vnto all those which will take it helth of soule and body and that all that which shalbée touched with the same or sprinkled should bee without any filth and all the assault and cembat of the spirituall enemie Hillarius I haue heard many Priesses who in stéed to say Careatomni immundicia doe say Careat omni mundicia But they do vse the figure whiche the Gramarians do call Apheresis or for to speake better the figure called the ignoraunce of the Gramer I doe verelye thincke that all that whiche they sprinckle abideth well according to the prayer that they make wythout cleanenesse Wherefore those whom they doe sprinckle when they make their great Asperges me maye very well saye as Valentinian sayde who was the chiefe Captayne in the Courte of Iuhan the Apostate but yet neuerthelesse a good Christian and afterwardes chosen Emperour Thomas What sayd he Hillarius At a certeyne time as lulian entered into the Temple of Fortune and that on both the sides of the doores the ministers and Priests of the Temple were who accordinge as they made men to vnderstand thorow that sprinckling of that water did purge those that did enter in after the same manner as cur priests doe yet at thys daye to those whiche doe enter or goe foorth of the church Valentinian who did goe before lulian the Prince espyed a droppe of that water which had bene shed vppon his cloake for which he was very angry insomuch that he gaue a Priest Minister of the temple a great stroke with his fist saying Thou hast defiled mée not purged mée Hée had as much good reason as Diogenes who at a certeine time béeing entered into a filthy stincking bath sayde Those which doe bathe and wash themselues héere wher doe they wash them Letting therby to vnderstand that those which bathe and wash them in those bathes come foorth more filthy then they were before they entered and that they haue more neede to bée washed then before for they haue gathered nothinge but filthynesse But this Apothegme and sentence neuer agréed better then with our Priestes whiche defile all those which goe vnto them howe cleane soeuer they be But thou halt yet adiured and coniured but the salt Yet remaineth the water Theophilus They do blaspheme yet moreouer For they pray that it may be adiured and coniured for to driue away all the power of the enemie and to teare and pluck vp the enemies themselues with all his apostate Angels and for to drwe away the Diuels and diseases and that all that which shall be sprickneled with it either in the houses or in the place of the faythfull shoulde bée wythout spot or hurt that the spirite of pestilence doe not remaine and rest there nor the infectious windes nor aire that al vncleane spirites and the terrour of the venomous Serpent and all the assaultes and ambusshes of the euemye and all euill bée altogether driuen away To conclude they require that it maye doe all thinges And so by that meanes wée shall haue no more néede of Iesus Christ The Candles the Ware the Salt and the Water wyll doe all Eusebius You speake very euyll For you maye well perceiue howe they yraye vnto God that hée woulde giue vnto them that vertue by his sonne Iesus Christ whō they acknowledge to be the authour of all good things Theophilus If they acknowledge him for such a one what néede haue they then of War Salt and Water for to obtaine of him the goods which are
necessary for our bodies and soules Can he or will hée not dooe that without those thinges wilt they binde and tye his grace vertue and power and inclose shut it in wax salt and water as they doe require by their prayers If those thinges be not charmes sorceries and enchauntmentes I knowe not what we may call charmes sorceries enchauntmentes Hillarius When they do coniure and blesse their welles and fontes christening places they gape ouer the water and blowe in it as though they had the holy Ghost within their throate and that they would shut him in it It is very néedefull that that holy Ghost whome they doe plunge and shutte in that water can swim or otherwise he shall bee in daunger of drowning Theophilus Euen as they doe with the water war so doe they with the fire and incenie vppon Easter euen when they blesse their Pascall of wax Eusebius Sith that all that is done vnto the honour of God can it be but good Theophilus Howe can it be to the honour of God to attribute vnto the creatures the honour which beloÌ„geth vnto him Or to shut vppe and lymit his grace vertue and power by them And to ouerthrowe and tourne vpside downe altogether the order of God and the vse for which hée hath created them for hée hath not created the water salt fire the ware for to purifie the soules for to oriue away the Diuelles and for to be remedyes to all corporall and spirituall diseases But he hath created the water for to drincke for to wash awaye the filthinesse of the body for to refresh sprinckle and helpe the naturall necessities for which God hath ordayned them As much must wée vnderstande of the fire salte and ware and all other creatures whiche cannot serue vs but accordinge to their naturall properties and according to the ordinaunce of god Wherefore whosoeuer altereth and chaungeth that order of nature and vse of the creatures otherwise then he ought attributinge vnto them any other propertie then that whiche God hath gyuen vnto them hée blasphemeth God and is worthy to be taken for a Sorcerer and a Magitian For wherein doth a good Phisitian and a Philosopher differ from a Charmer and Magitian but in this that those doe followe the order of God in his creatures and their naturall dysposition and those héero doe peruerte and ouerthrowe it and wyll by woords charmes and coniurations chaunge their nature and bring them to other effectes then God hath appointed them Eusebius By thy reasons thou doest also abolysh the vse of the Sacramentes Theophilus That is an other thinge forasmuche as it is ordeyned of GOD who maye make hys creatures to serue to what it pleaseth hym For hée which is the Lord may vse them eyther after that order as hée hath appointed them of nature or miraculously aboue nature Although that who so would attribute vnto the water of Baptisme or vnto the breade and wine in the Lordes supper that whiche you doe attribute vnto your waters saltes fires inceuse and waxe shoulde bée greatly to be rebuked For all the vertue and efficacie of the Sacramentes doe depende of the promise of God of which you haue nothinge in your ceremonies invented and forged by your owne sence and vnderstanding wythout the worde of God no more then the Magicians and enchaunters haue in their witchinges and inuocations Wherefore we cannot repute and take such superstitions followinge the manner forme as you doe holde but for such as those haue bene of whiche you haue taken the example Hillarius But how can it bée pleasing and agréeable to God to forsake and renounce Iesus Christ his sonne and the Christianitie for to make themselues Panims or Iewes Tell me Eusebius if thou doe not thincke that the Chaldeans and Persians are worthy to be accompted and taken for Idolaters to baue had the fire in so great admiration that they haue worshiped it as God Eusebius Who doubteth of that Hillarius Now what reason haue you for to excuse your selfe of that same Idolatry more lawfully then they Theophilus That Idolatry is the most auncient which hath bene almost amongest men chiefely before that there was any vse of Images And I doubte not but that wée referre it vnto the Idolatry of the fire followinge also the opinion of Sainct Hierome and of Lyra that which Moses calleth Vr of the Chaldees For notwithstanding that that name is taken for the place wherein Tarch the Father of Abraham dwelled yet neuerthelesse it is very lyke that that place hath taken his name of that fire which the Chaldeans worshipped as wée sée dayly that many Townes and Villages dooe take their name of the Gods Sainctes and Patrons whiche are there adored honoured as are S. Claudus S. Hippolite Sainct Denis Sainct Iames others innumerable For Vr signifieth in the Hebrew and Chaldee tongue fire and furnayse And vnto that agréeth well that which is spoken off in the booke of Iosua that Tareh the Father of Abraham was an Idolater although there bee no mencion made that hée worshypped Images and Idolls But it was bicause he was defiled and infected with that Idolatry of the Chaldees for the which Abraham departed from his countrey in not worshypping the fire in stéede of the true God. Hillarius That Idolatry hath not bene onely among the Chaldees and Persians But it is also spredde abroade amonge other Nations who of longe time haue in lyke manner worshypped the fire vnder the name of Vesta who was in greate honour and estimation amonge the Troyans before the warre of Troy and from thence hath bene wyth the other Gods caryed into Italy by Aeneas and so came vppe the custome to kéepe a continuall fire in his Temple at Rome within a Bore or Pyxe as they doe nowe the holye hoaste For that cause the Poetes manye times dooe call it the Troyans fire and the fire of Laomedon the founder and buylder of troy The Greekes also dyd the lyke in Athens and Delphos And Seruius wituesseth that they kept it also in the Temple of Iupiter and of Minerua by which they woulde vnderstande the earthly heauen and the celestiall fire And Stâ—abo hath written almost the lyke that is to say that there was an olde Temple of Minerua Poliade in which was kept a Lampe continually burning and there was a Couent of Nounes I thincke that Pope Sabinianus dyd take example of the samo when that he constituted and ordeined that Lampes shoulde be continually kept burninge in the Temples as Platine and Volaterran dooe witnesse Theophilus If they had the lyke that of which Sainct Augustine maketh mencion which was inextinguible in a certeine Temple of Venus whiche the Panims had they woulde make of it a great myracle and would esteeme it for a goodly relike For he sayth that it contimeth alwaies burning in the aire abroad without euer being put out or quenched eyther with the winde
the light of the day in the earth Therefore also they caried it with them in the warre And when they muste remoue the hoast there was uppon the kings Tabernacle a little Image of the sunne enclosed within a rounde hor of Christall whiche shined and gane a great light When the procession of the holy and eternall fyre began to march and go foorth they caried if before all uppon the Aulters of silurr the whithe the wisest and holyest men whom they called pagitians did follow After them 365. young men beeing clothed in Purple and red for to represent the colour of the fyre I beleeue that after their erample the Pope and the Cardinals are pet clothed in red in witnes that either they are men of bloud beeing all bloudie with the bloude of the righseous and poore innocents or els that they are as a consuming fyre in this world which consumeth all for to make the poore faithfull feare which will not consent unto their blasphemies and tyranny or in signe and token that they are the Cookes fyre bronds of hell for do tost and broyle the roore sules that they haue the tharge of those iusernall firrs and of Purgatorie There was in like manner in that processiou charets hearses and shrines all tryumed and engraued in golde and siluer for to carye and beare the other gods and their Images the which they haue afterwards learned to make as the other Panims by succession of time did There were also which caried goodly rods and staues of golde as are the crosses of our Abbots and Byshoppes and the staues which they do cary in procession with the Crosse And those were also clothed with white as our Priests are Wherefore sith that our Priests do follow them almost in all things mee thinketh that they shoulde haue more shew of appearance to kéepe the holye fire in the pyr or bor and to worshippe it and cause it to bée worshiped as theyr God that they haue made of stower For this without the other can haue no great vertue sith that the fore must defende them Wherefore they do euidently declare that they estéeme it more puissant and more strong sith that they haue recourse vnto it Wherefore one may wel aunswere vnto them that which of old time hath bene aunswered by a certeine man of the pron and of the golde who was demaunded whiche of them both was the strongest Thomas Pée thinketh that it is the golde for it doth all things Hillarius But what can the golde do without that yron hath it not néede of the yron for to kéepe defende it For who is moste strongest eyther hee whiche keepeth or hée which must bee kept Thomas There is in th at a Sophistrie Hillarius There is no neede to alledge sophistrie For the thing is suche in beritie There is nething but the foolish opinion perswasion of men which maketh them to iudge otherwise For as Sainct Augustine saith what are all the mettals but earth what difference is there then betweene the yron and the golde but that the one is a blacker earth and the other more yollow pale wherein he declareth that he is more fearefull then the vson Thomas It is not without cause that he is plae for hee hath manye enemies whiche doe lye in wayte to take him Hillarius And therefore what shall hee doe if hée hadue not the yron for to defende him For the yron defendeth him and the yron taketh him and whiche is more of which should one set best by either of the yrou or of the golde Can we aswel labour and til the lande with the golde as with the yron and make that whiche wée make of the yron Thomas It is moste true we cannot But yet neuerthe ignorance and foolish opinton of men which estéeme it to be so bicause that the coulour séemeth vnto them more fairer and that it is not so plenty as yron But take away the opinion and it shall be but earth as the yron Asmuch may we say of the God of the Priestes and of the fire For I assure thee that if the syre dyd not make them to feare him that it should neuer haue come vnto such honour as it is come vnto and it shoulde bee impossible to keepe it in such digmtie Furthermore if the syre of Purgatory were not of some balue it shoulde not be so deere Perchandise nor so precious But what is the cause that men haue it in such reuerence and do forsake the liuinge God and the Sauiour Iesus Christ for to worshippe the worltes of their handes but the false opinion wherewith their understanding is corrupted marred For bestoes the worde of God all the residue is but opiluons and lyings Theophilus They should haue no lesse occasion to worshippe the fyre then the bread and to make it a god For if that fyre can purge sanctify that body soule it is God If it purge and sanctify it iustifieth saueth If it instiffe saue it is then god For ther is none other iustifter samour but him onelye And it is no harder for him to purge saue man then to create make him The worke of that redeÌ„ption is no harder then that of the creation Wherefore if the one apperteineth unto God alone so doth that other Hillarius There is yet another point the is that the fire is the principall creator of the Priests god For without it they cannot seeth nor heate any thing It hath power to make unmake as it hath bene well shewed foorth in the yere of our Lord. 1542. in a litle billage which is iii miles from Castres in Languidoc where the poore whyte god was burned upon holy Thursoay atnight with all his Tabernacle his house and al the Tepistry woork and hangings Thomas Now happened that great misfortune Hillarius Nou must understand the that night before the day of holy friday they had a custome that all the families householders went to bisit the poore god which was there deteyned kept prisoner with a great number of Tapers torches lampes which they caryed â—â— great deuotioÌ„ saying let bs go see our God which is at rest Thomas To what purpose did they the Hillarius Think the it was to coÌ„fort him bicause the upon those dayes there he was somuch tormented among the Iewes Thomas Are there Iewes in the country Hillarius Why is there a country where ther is none Thomas Not many among that Christians Hillarius Pore then in any other place although there were none but the pricsts which alwaies dayly thorow their blasphemies do crucifie Iesus Christ towards who they shew themselues a great deale worse then the Iewes For they haue crucifted him but once but those here doe crucifie him euery day Thomas Ketourne to thy matter expound unto vs how the fire there kindled Hillarius Nou must understand the in disiting himm in such fort they brought that
vse in the censecration and halowinge of them bee a witnesse in the which you doe praye God that it woulde please hym to sende his holy Angel from heauen to blesse and sanctifie these asshes to the ende they maye bée a healthfull remedy vnto all those whiche doe call vpon his name and that althose which de poure them vpon them maye receiue bealish of their body and safegarde of their soule for the redemption of their sinnes Those asshes should haue as much vertue as the bloud of Iesus Christ They should haue yet more shew and colour as already hath bene declared to restore the auncient Iewisth Ceremonye and to make asshes of the younge heyfer then to doe that that they doe or to make them of a Calfe as the Pomaines dyd For they shoulde haue more coulor in the holy Scripture in the which they shall finde no institution of their asshes Hillarius If they doe not finde it in the holy Scripture ought it not to suffice thée that it is founde in the Balender of Ouid. But they doe adde moreouer that the Vestalles wyth those consecrated asshes for the purgation of the people not onely made wyth a Calfe but also wyth stalkes and poddes of beanes had perfumes of Brimstone of Torches of the Laurell or Bay trée of the Dliffes of Rosemarye and other lyke swéete and oderiferant trées and hearbes of which your Missell teacheth you to make your asshe to wytte of the boughes which were blessed the yeare before and of the bandes and begins which they doe put on the little chyldren in their baptisme and confirmation Dost thou thincke Eusebius that those thinges doe euyll agrée wyth your Ceremonies and the purgations that you haue nas wel for the quicke as for the dead For sith that the bloud of Iesus Christ is not sufficient for you it must néedes be that you haue a Purgatory both for the one and the other But I haue yet forgotten that at the feast of the dead the Panims dyd shut their Temples and couer and hide their images as Ouid hath in lyke manner descrided by these verses The Gods of Churches were shut vp with close and priuy doores And alters wanted sacrifice none incense on them poures Then did poore soules and bodies dead committed to the graue Still stray abroade and feede on that set for them then to haue The Athenians also vsed Ceremonies altogether like vnto that feasts of Praxiergide which they celebrated in Athens in the moneth of February to the which the one holdeth the secrete misteries one other pulleth downe all the ornamentes of the Temple and an other couereth the Image that was there Doe not you receiue and vse yet at this day all in all those same manner of dooings the which you haue referred to Lent and doe stoppe the noses of your Idolls and hange a vayle before them for to declare that it is taken no more from you then from the Iewes I know not whether you be afraide least they should smel the garlike which you eat in Lent. I wil leaue off to speake of other sperstitions Idolatries which you haue borrowed of the Panims For I should neuer make an ende But I will onely shew one part of those which are descended from the feast of the dead celebrated amōg the Panims and of the purgations y they haue aswel for the quick as for the dead to the ende thou shouldest know that euen as you haue followed thē for y purgations of the buing so haue you done in those of the dead Theophilus It séemeth also y Tertulian would referre that which y Corinthians did baptize themselues for the dead to the Februales purifiecations of the panims as letting to vnderstand that where the Corinthians dyd baptize themselues for the dead was a superstition which they did yet kéepe of their auncient customes crcept y in stéede of that panish superstitions they did abuse that baptisme thinking y it ought to serue for the dead as we do sée in our time that they haue applyed it vnto the Lords supper by the means of Masses that which the superstitins Papists doe thinke to profit the dead in whose name the Priest doth cōmunicate and sing it Although that the wordes of Tertulian are obscure and very harde yet to cramine them together it séemeth verye well that he meaneth the same and the auncientes haue almost all taken it after that manner notwythstandinge that others doe take it in an other sence and doe interprete that place of Sainct Paule of those which doe cause themselues to bée baptised when they were in extreme sicknesse and néere vnto death For the custome was that those which came to the sayth which men call the Catechumenis bicause they are instructed in the fayth and Christian Religion dyd not of custome cause themselues to bée sodedinely baptised vntill suche time as they were well instructed and taught in the secrete misteries and doctrine of the Christian Religion And therfore bycayse they had the baptisme in great reuernce and dyd beléeue that thorow the same they had full remyssion and forgiuenesse of all their sinnes and were altogether renued many taryed and referred to be baptised vntyll they were lyke to dye thinckinge that when they dyed in such a state they were more purewr and cleaner from their sinnes the whiche they coulde neuer haue done if they had not truelye beléeued and hoped for the immortalytie of the soules and the resurrection of the fleshe Although that the Apostles allowed not suche manner of dooinge Those which doe take the woordes of the Apostle after such a sence and meaninge are induced to doe it bicause that they thincke that if the Apostle dyd vnderstande and meane that of the Panish superstitions that he would not haue passed it ouer wythout rebuking that errour and doe expound it that they should baptise themselues of the dead that is to say as dead and as people which repute themseluesalready dead I haue the willinger touched this for to giue occasion vnto the readers to examine well that place and the exposition of the auncientes and others Hillarius We haue sufficiently entreated of that matter Eusebius and thinke that thou shalt haue somewhat to doe to seperate against that which we haue propounded for to proue that your ceremonies prayers for the dead are taken of the true Church of Iesus Christ For I haue rehearsed vnto thee one parte of the Popes Kalender and mée séemeth that he ought to giue mée good wages for to end them all and his feasts as Ouid hath written those of the Romaines Eusebius If thou haddest as well read the workes of Sainct Augustine and of other auncient Doctors as the bookes of Ouid and other Poets and Autors of the Panims thou wouldest speake otherwise and thou shouldest not haue fallen into such déepe rootes of errors and heresles in which thou art wrapped in in such for that thou
cleane and very proper for to represent the same of the holy Ghost For it washeth purifieth cleanseth and refresheth the hearts and consciences for to comfort them and to make them bring foorth fruite pleasing vnto God in such sort that the water causeth the earth to fructifie renoweth and maketh it fertile washeth away the filthinesse from the body It quencheth and putteth out in lyke manner the fire and heate of wicked carnall concupiscences as the water quencheth out the fire and queÌ„cheth the thirst and alteration of the poore féebled soules refresheth them for euer The seconde cause is that hée would haue opened vnto vs the intelligence and vnderstanding of ceremonies baptismes and purifycations conteyned in the law of Moses of y prophets in like manner by which the holy ghost was promised chiefly by Esay Ezechiel vnto whom he maketh allusion hath had the regard thervnto Therefore he would expound them vnto vs and giue vs to vnderstand that those waters promised of God did signifie none other thing theÌ„ the abouÌ„dance of the holy ghost which ought to be shed foorth vpon all flesh as a riuer and a floud of water whiche watereth and ouerfloweth all the earth The which Sainct Peter witnesseth to haue bene accomplished both in him and in the other Disciples of Iesus Christ the day of Pentecost according to y prophecie of Ioel. And therefore Iesus Christ would as well in that place as in speaking vnto the Samaritane and bidding those which were in the temple to come drinke of those liuing waters vse those manners of speakings And for to declare vnto vs in like manner to what ende he hath instituted the signe of the water in the baptisme And that it is true I doe take Sainct Iohn for a witnesse who expounding the words of his Master saith that he vnderstandeth by those waters y holy Ghost y which the beléeuers ought to receiue Thirdly by that forme of figured speaking be teacheth vs in like manner what the Christian man ought to bée that is regenerated by the holy Ghost setting foorth the water and the winde which are bodyes more subtill thinner cléerer purer then the earth which is an elemeÌ„t more weightier vnpurer thicker and materyall These wordes then doe signifie as much as if hée had sayde that in stéede of that weightie earthlye carnall and corruptible man wée must be regenerated into a newe man heauenlye spirituall and perfect as much differing from this héere whiche is earthly and fallinge as the water and the winde doe differ from the earth And it must be that the same is done by the holy Ghost which is the true water which maketh that purification in vs. Eusebius Thy exposition is not without a fayre shew But ought I therefore the sooner to receyue it then the same of the auncient Doctours who in that place by the water haue vnderstanded the baptisme whiche is giuen by the water and chiefely Saincte Iohn Chrisostome Theophilus I am well content to magnifie with the auncients the Sacraments as much as shall be possible So that thou wilt vnderstande them so as they themselues would they should be vnderstanded For although that I would receiue the exposition of Chrisostome it followeth not therefore that by the same one may conclude the element of the water to be so necessary vnto saluation that without the same man cannot obteine it For wée must consider that when the scripture the auncient Doctors do speake of the sacraments they haue not regarde onely to the outward signe but do staye themselues principally vpon the thing signified by them the which they doe vnderstand properly And therefore following their intellygence we may expounde those wordes after that sence as if Iesus Christ did say hée which shall not wash away his sinnes which shall not receiue truely the holy Ghost and which shall not be receiued into my Church and into my flocke after the manner as I haue ordeyned that hée shoulde doe by the baptisme shall not enter into the kingdome of god It followeth not therefore that he which shall haue héere all the thinges comprised and signified by the baptisme ought to bée reiected and forsaken of God if he lacke but the water But yet the better to content thée I will declare vnto thée euidently that not onely the auncient Doctors but also the scholasticalles and questionaries doe confirme my sentence For the master of the sentences hauing moued the same question which thou hast propouÌ„ded touching those words of Iesus christ aunswered that the same place ought to be vnderstanded of those which may be baptised and doe make none accompt of it or that one may thus expound it he which shall not be regenerate of the water the holy Ghost y is to say of that regeneration which is made by the water the holy Ghost shall not be saued Now y regeneration cannot be made onely by the baptisme but also thorow penance and by the bloud Behold the very wordes of the master of the sentences who vnderstandeth by the bloud the same of the Martyrs which is shed for the witnesse of the truth For your owne doctours perceiuing the absurdities inconueniences which would followe if one would vnderstand that place of Iesus Christ of the exterior baptisme and to take it rigâ—rously haue béene compelled to say that there shoulde be three sortes of baptisme that is to saye of the water of the holy Ghost and of bloud by the whiche diuision they doe confesse openly that there is an other kinde of baptisme then the same of the water by the which man may be saued There is the baptisme of the holy Ghost and of faith which may be without the same of the water Vpon which the maister of the sentences alledgeth Augustine saying Thou doest demaund which is greatest either faith or the water I doubt not but that thou wilt aunswere vnto mée that it is the faith If then that which is least can sanctifie shal not that which is greater do it better to wit the faith of which Iesus Christ hath said he that beléeueth on mée yea though he were dead yet shall he liue Eusebius S. Augustine neuerthelesse concludeth of the words of Iesus Christ that none can come vnto eternall life without the sacrament of baptisme but those which do shead their bloud for the trueth in the Church But which is more he sayth we do not beléeue that any Cathecumenian hath eternall life although that he shall dye in good workes if he be not baptised or martyred You do well knowe that in the auncient Church those which had receiued the Gospell and were not yet baptised were called Cathecumenes bicause that one had instructed them in the faith And following that same matter he saith more ouer We beléeue that there is no way of saluation but for those that are baptised Theophilus I
and minutes Theophilus Thou séest howe hée is already iudged and yet hée is not He is sufficiently iudged and condemned as to himselfe sith that he hath his conscience his confession his witnesse and his processe against himselfe and that he accompteth himselfe alredy as dead But neuerthelesse there is yet a more greater horror to be brought to iudgemeÌ„t to heare the sentence of his Iudge to be condemned and executed openly notwithstanding that he is already sufficiently condemned being in the prison yet neuertheles the Iudge must pronounce openly his last sentence that his iudgement be put in execution As much may wée say of the Diuels and reprobate Whilest that the wicked doe liue héere in this worlde they are lyke vnto malefactors before that they are apprehended and taken When God calleth them from this worlde hée cyteth them before hym â—or to appeare in iudgement And they are as though they were cast in prison lookinge for their latter sentence which shall bee giuen them in that great â—aye in which all processe all causes and appeales shall ende Beholde the cause wherefore Sainct Peter maketh mention of the bondes and chaines with which GOD bindeth y diuels which he hath reserued to his iudgemeÌ„t vsing humaine and materiall comparisons for to declare vnto vs y heauenly spirituall things That is the cause wherefore the wicked spirites doe pray vnto Iesus Christ that hée will not sende them into the déepe complaininge and lamentinge bicause that they did féele by his comming their iudgement to approch nigh And therefore they cried O Iesu thou sonne of Dauid art thou come hether to torment vs before our time be come We cannot doubt but that they were already tormented before as the malefactor which is in the â—â—ockes and chaines But they haue dreadful feare when they do sée their Iudge and that they doe féele their last sentence to drawe nigh Thomas It is to be meruailed at how the one of the matters bringeth in the other and giueth vnderstandinge of it Thou hast deliuered me from one great doubt thou hast instructed me how I ought to aunswere vnto a very hard question the which was propunded vnto me not long a goe that is to say If after that the soule is seperated from the body whether y it goeth straight way into Paradise or into hell For if it goeth into Paradise or into hell it seemeth that the iudgement is alredy done that we must tary no longer for it or if we ought to looke and tary for an other that y soules of the faithfull or vnfaythfull haue not yet a place assigned vnto them for to receyue felicitie or malediction And therefore some doe saye that they sleepe vntill that great iourney But thou hast taken from mée the doubt and hast satisfied mee thorowly Theophilus Wee must not bee abashed althoughe those that sleepe doe dreame But we ought rather to bee abashed to see those that be awake to dreame and to beleeue and giue credite vnto the dreames of the sleepers For if it were so the woorkes of God agaynst their nature should rather diminish then increase and thâ— faythfull ought more to feare the corporall de 〈◊〉 then thâ— vnfaythfull For by the death the vnfaythfull should bée at rest and the faythfull shoulde bée depriued from that portion of the eternall felicitie the which they haue alredy tasted off in this world the which they ought to haue mor amply after that they be delyuered from the prison of this mortall body I beléeue most assureâ—ly that if Sainct Paul had thought that hée must haue slepte so longe 〈◊〉 in bodye and soule after his decease wythout hauing more â—â—â—ple fruition of the heauenly goodnesse and ioyes then hée had in this worlde that hée would neuer haue sayde What to choose I wotto not I am constrayned of two thinges I desire to be loosed and to bee wyth Christ which thing is best of all Neuerthelesse to abyde in the fleshe is more néedfull for you For in stéede to receyue more greater goodnesse as hée desired hée was â—â—mpayred and made worse and that portion of the heauenlye goodnesse that hée had already tasted off lyuing in thys bodye was better for him then to bée altogether spoyled of it and to sléepe beeing insensible as a stone two or thrée thousande yeares Hillarius Cycero was but a Panim and an heathen man who was not very certeine nor assured of the eternall lyfe nor perfectly resolued of the immortalytie of the soules but yet neuerthelesse hee sayth that he would not lyue nyntie yeares in such sorte that after that he had depassed thrée score yeares hée shoulde sléepe the residue of nentie yeares But whiche is more hée addeth is that matter the Hogges woulde not desyre that muche lesse I By that accompte hée esteemeth the lyfe of Hogs better then that of man all the whyle as hée abydeth a sléepe bycause that the sleeper is an Image of death the whiche alwayes representeth hymselfe in sléeping Theophilus And therefore I dooe conclude that notwithstandinge that the Lorde by hys prouydence hath constituted and appointed that the bodyes doe sléepe in the earth as in their hedde vntyll the resurrectyon that the number of their bretheren shal be fulfilled yet neuertheles the faithful nor the vnfaithfull neuer are without their Paradise their hell the which the more as they doe approch to their consummation ende so much y more doe they encrease augment vntill such time as they are come vntill the latter degrée of felicitâ—e or infelicitie beneâ—iction or malediction Thomas After the same manner as thou procéedest thou wilt leaue vs neither Lymbe nor Purgatory Theophilus As touching the Lymbe if one doe take it for the bosome of Abraham and the condition of the â—uncient fathers which haue bene before the comming of Iesus Christ I will not much dispute of the wordes if we agrée in the thing I am well contented to confesse that the condition of the auncientes as well those that bée lining as those that bée dead compared vnto ours in respect of the same may be estéemed as a prison in price of a palaice If we doe beholde the shadowes and figures vnder whose darknesse they haue bene deteyned and kept in respect of vs and the seruitude and bondage of the Mosaicall lawe vsinge suche comparisons as Sainct Paul who compareth all this auncient people vnto young children which are vnder their Tutor and Master and vnto seruauntes which are vnder the feare of their Master in comparison of the Christian people the which hée compaseth vnto the true natural perfect children which are already out of boÌ„dage gouernment saying that they haue not receiued y spirit of bondage feare but the spirit of adoption of libertie Vpon which we ought to note y the Apostle denieth not simply but that those good auncient fathers haue had the same spirit of
infamy the which yet neuertheles redoundeth more vnto their pareÌ„ts friends then vnto them But they forget themselues or rather they think that they do yet foele shal féele that dishonour infamye and publike shame which shall continue to their infants and lynage And although that they bée sufficiently tormented with their euill yet neuerthelesse they féele a great ease and refreshing if they vnderstande that their children haue none euill their torment is aggrauated and increased if they vnderstande the contrarie For that cause the Prophetes doe threaten not onely the wicked sort of their owne ruine and distruction but doe foreshewe vnto them that of their children and the euilles whiche shall happen vnto them as it appeareth in the prophecy of Esaie against Babylon and others like But for to stoppe all those euills and for to appaise the wrath of God kindled vpon vs as well for our sinnes as those of our fathers there is no better prayers nor offrings then to runne with true repentance amendemeÌ„t of life to implore his mercy Behold the good prayers for y deade to that ende that their sinnes be not counted wish ours Although that it be after whatsoeuer manner 〈◊〉 wilt take that place it sufficeth móe at this present to haue shewed vnto thée that thou canst not by the same proue thy purgatory although that the booke shoulde bée of the holy scripture And if thou wilt giue vnto it any credit it may better serue thée for to proue the Lymbe if there be one then the Purgatory But sith that Iesus Christ is come and that you confesse that he hath drawen the â—athers from the Lymbes the example of Iudas Machabeus can haue no more place among you sith that according to your doctrine the cause is ceased Eusebius Put case that there were no more neither Lymbe nor Purgatory can we not at the least pray for the resurrection of the deade And for the seconde comming of Iesus Christ the which we doe looke for as well as the auncyent fathers haue prayed for the first and haue desired and sighed after it Theophilus We may well pray as I haue alreadye saide and aske of God all that which apperteyneth to the perfection of his kingdome But to make prayers which are called prayers for the deade and to pray in perticuler that God woulde raise vp againe the bodyes of those which are deade and that Iesus Christ would soone come to iudgement I haue no commaundement of God nor example in all the holy scripture but rather to the contrary For when the Lorde aunswered vnto the soules of the saints which complayned of their persecutors that they shoulde â—arry vntill the number of their bretheren were fulfilled he doth sufficiently shewe by the same that he hath prefered the tyme the which cannot be plucked nor driuen backe And sith that the thing is altogether certeine and that we are alreadie all assured what néede is it then to make perticuler praiers Eusebius We are asmuch assured that all thinges which ought to come are passed by the counsell of God and that he will giue vs all that which shal be requisite to our helth and saluation that all the haires of our heade are numbred and none shall fall to the grounde without his wyll and his kingdome shall shall come and shall be exalted aboue all creatures but we may not leaue off therefore to pray continually â— to demaunde those thinges of God. Theophilus It is an other thing of vs which are yet in our voiage earthly peregrination â— of those which haue alreadie ended their course vnto whome we can no more add too nor dimynish For all the while that we are yet in the battaile we may empaire or amende and we haue alwayes néede to inuocate and call for the aide of God both for vs and for our bretheren which are yet in combate fight with vs And which is more God commaundeth vs so to do not that he knoweth not better then we what we do lacke before we do aske and that hee is not willing to giue it vs but hee doth it for to hold and kéepe vs in his feare to learne vs to sanctifie his name to exercise our faith towards him and our loue towardes our neighboure whilest that wée may serue him in this mortall peregrination But after that the voctorie is gotten or lost and that one is once come and arriued to the hauen and port to which he must go the cause and the occasion is no more such Eusebius Thou hast saide before that the soules of the blessed and the verye Angels were not yet in their full glorie Also wee cannot denye but that the bodies of the faithfull that are deade are yet kept in death sith that they are in corruption from the which they shal not be deliuered vntill their resurrection that death shal be altogether abolished What euill is it then to pray for the deade that their bodie may be deliuered from corruption and that they may haue their perfect consummation in bodie and soule Theophilus I haue alreadie satisfied thée in that if thou vnderstandest what difference there is betwéene the lyuing and the deade And although we had none other thing but that the scripture maketh no expresse commasidement that ought to suffice thée For if it were a question to worke subtilly and sophistically in the worde of god I shoulde well haue asmuch reason to put forth that wée must make prayers in perticuler for the virgin Marye for all the Prophets Apostles Saints and Saintes of Paradise Yea for the Angells and for Iesus Christ himselfe Hillaâ—ius It shoulde be requisite then by that accompt to make out of hand a newe Letany In stéede where the Prâ—estes do sing saint Michael pray for vs saint Mary mother of God pray for vs saint Peter pray for vs and so consequently of others we must say O Lorde we pray and beseech thée for saint Michael saint Gabriel saint Mary saint Peter saint Paul â—nd â—or all the saints and saintes of Paradise that thou do put them in full â—oye and perfect â—elicitie and that thâ—u â—aise vp their bodyes to eternall glorie Theophilus If our dâ—e examine well the greatest part of the prayers which the priestes make for the deade euen as they are written in their Messell and Breuiaries one shal be constrained â—o confesse that such prayers cannot be made in the name of others then of those whome they do inuocate and call vpon in their Letanyes and that they be of like condition Hillarius I haue heard the Cordeliers mocke at Frier Christofer which was one of their order and couent bâ—cause that he did sing the Masse of Requiem for the Saints and Saintes of Paradise But if he had knowen howe to defende his cause it had not béene without reasâ—n For he might haue verie wel alledged for his warrant the Memento of the
greatest â—othsmiths y euer was in the world For ther was neuer none as farre as I can see which hath made and counterfaited more keyes nor which hath made them to agrée better to all locks Hillarius The experience doth witnesse it Theophilus I do think yet vpon an other reason against y of Eusebius If thou wilt limit y ministry of Saint Peter and of the Apostles within the compasse of heauen and wilt not suffer their power to bée stretched foorth euen to the confins and ende of Purgatorye at the least thou shalt not denye mée but that there be some Popes Cardinalls Bishoppes Priestes and Monkes in Purgatory 〈◊〉 thou wilt say y theâ— do â—o all straight way into paradise or into 〈◊〉 Now if they be in Purgatory wherefore â—â—e ye not suffer them to haue that office in the places where they are present Eusebius Bicause for that they are sinners as others are and subiect vnto one iudgement they are of the same condition as the others and they cannot giue them that whereoff they themselues haue néede and cannot haue it for them Furthermore as soone as they are dead they are depriued from that office Hillarius I haue two reasons for to beate downe thy aunswere The first is that I am abashed that the Pope and his doe attribute vnto themselues the power to pardon all sinnes how great and wicked soeuer they bée yea all Sodomy and if néede hée the sinne against the holy Ghost notwithstanding that it bée irrâ—missible and doe giue bulâ— and pardons for all so that one doe bring them money and that they haue also power to pardon the veâ—â—all sinnes in Purgatory For according to your own doctrine none are there deteined and kept but for the veniall sinnes For the mortall sinnes haue no purgation in the other world but they must bee punished in hell And as to that that thou sayest that they are sinners and subiect to the same paines in Purgatory so are they in this worlde and leaue not off therefore to absolue themselues the one to the other although they shoulde haue killed Father and Mother and so make themselues as white as the Collyers Furthermore you doe call the impression of your Creame and holy Oile with whiche you doe anointe the Pristes when they doe take their orders Charector indelibilis that is to saye a marke and a signe which cannot be put out nor defaced If it be so the Pâ—iestes dooe abide and remaine alwayes Pristes although they be dead For you will not confesse that that impression and marke is onely done vnto the bodye But you doe affirme that it penitrateth and pearceth euen to the soule of which it can neuer be defaced nor abolyshed yet neuerthelesse thou knowest better then I. Theophilus They doe attribute vnto it such vertue that they doe affirme for certâ—ine that a prâ—est notwithstanding that he be an heriticke or an apostate or desgraded yet neuerthelesse be shall haue power alwayes to consecrate the body of God as well as others if he doe pronounce the sacramentall wordes vppon the hoast with the intencion to consecrate Hillarius Beholde yet to confirme better my purpose I do not doubt for my parte but that that Character is the marke wherewith is marked the conscience of those which shall giue héede vnto spirits of errour and deuilish doctrine and which are Apostates of the faith according to the prophecie of saint Paul. That is the marke of the great whore of Babylon without which one cannot sell nor buy nor haue any place in the Popish Church That is a marke cleane contrary vnto that which the Angell printed in the foreheads of the elect of god Nowe sith that the Apostles of Iesus Christ and the true bishoppes and priests which by them were ordayned haue not had that Cautor that is to say Marke I had thought to haue said Charecter I am not abashed if they haue not such power in the other worlde as the Pope hath in the same and in this But it is an other thing of him and of his which do departe out of this worlde with this Cauter I doe beguile my selfe alwayes I doe say with that Charâ—â—ter which they do beare alwayes with them Wherfore they ought to haue no lesser power there then here And y same I wil proue by y example of Frier Rogers a Câ—rdelier which is recyted in the booke of the conformities of saint Fraunces It is there written that after that he was deade he appeared vnto a certeine woman who confessed vnto him all hir sinnes hée gaue hir obsolution If hâ— being deade had the power to come to heare the confession of the lyuing and to absolue them wherefore shall not his other compagnions béeinge deade haue and chiefely the Popes and Byshoppes who haue ordained them and confirmed them as much power among the dead Furthermore if according to the witnesse of your Doctors others may satisfie for vs not onely during our lyfe but also after that we be dead wherfore cannot we after that we be dead satisfie for our selues and to cause Masses to be song in Purgatory sith that there are so many Priest's Popes and Bishops for to doe it What thinkest thou Thomas Thomas Thou sayest well But I thinke that they cannot haue their hoasts and singing cakes Hillarius Yet they had neuerthelesse fire inough for to séethe or bake their gods Thomas If it be so as they say there is too much And therefore I thinke that they cannot haue hoasts chalyces aulters nor vestements For the fire will schorch and consume it all Hillarius Thou makest a good reason But by that compt how can the bulls and pardons of the Pope be kept and preserued from the fire which are sent thether by hole cart loades which some do cause to be buried with them for to cary them thether sith that they are but paper and parchment Asmuch may we say of the rule and habite of Saint Fraunces What sayest thou Theophilus Theophilus There is yet an other poynt If they will say that those which are in Purgatory can no more merite neyther for themselues nor for others they cannot say the lyke without speaking agaynst the doctrine which they haue giuen vs of the saints which are in Paradise For they doe affirme that they pray vnto God for vs that they are our intercessors aduocates towards him and that in séeing God which séeth all things they doe see all as in a Mirrour or looking glasse If they doe pray for vs which are yet in this lyfe bicause of the great loue and charitie that they haue towards vs wherefore do they not also willyngly pray for their bretheren deteyned and kept in the fire of Purgatory For they shoulde haue a greate deale more reason to doe that if they had anye care or charge of menne And that for manye causes First that the estate and condition of
the one and the other agréeth more then it doth of the dead to the lyuing Secondly bicause that they themselues can better perceiue of their estate and condition and whether they bée more in payne or whethether they be out of it then we For there is more agréeing of the spirits to the spirits which are seperated from the bodye then to vs which are yet wrapped in them And which is more if that the soules of Purgatory doe know eyther by diuine reuelation or by the report of Angells or of the soules of them which dayly doe depart out of this worlde that which is done vppon earth as your Doctors doe testifie and affirme can they not aswell reporte and tell vnto the Saints that which is done in Purgatory It is not lyke to be true iâ— there bée any but that they are better aduertised then we and that many wayes And if they be aduertised I cannot beléeue that they are so inhumayne and vngentle if they doe pray for the lyuing but that they doe pray a great deale more for those poore soules sith that they are in so gréeuous torments without any comparison that may be in the world I doe speake alwayes according to your doctrine And this is the thirde reason by the which I will conclude agaynst the Priestes eyther that the Saints doe not praye for the lyuing or the it is in lyke manner necessary and a great dele more néedeful that they pray for the dead Now if they pray for the dead I am of an opinion that we leaue vnto theÌ„ al the charge For it agreeth better to them then vnto vs sith that they are no more of this world but of the other in which are those that are dead and that we haue no more cure and charge but of the lyuing If they will deny that they doe not pray for the dead I haue more iust and lawfull reason to deny vnto them that they doe not pray for the lyuing Except peraduenture they would say that the Saintes were as cruell as thâ—â— which will suffer those poore soules alwayes to burne which do bring vnto them no money Hillarius Thou hast put foorth very strong reasons But I will a little helpe Eusebius to defende his cause and will propounde and put forth reasons against thâ—â—e to which thou shalt haue much a doe to aunswere Thou speakest of the saints what wilt thou saye if I proue vnto thée by liuely strong reasons that the Pope hath more power and authoritie then they Theophilus That should be an other â—atter Hillarius I will make thy selfe confesse it Who hath more power and authoritie either God or the saints Theophilus There néedeth not an aunswere vnto thy question For one may vnderstande it without speaking There is not a Papist but will â—asely confesse that there is not a saint which hath vertue nor power but so much as God will giue vnto him Hillarius I haue my meaninge and I will nowe make thée yeâ—de thy selfe vanquished For thou hast alreadie confessed vnto me of thine owne propâ—â— moâ—th hast coâ—firmed my proposition the which I â—â—l yet better proue vnto thee and I will concluâ—e all our dispuâ—aâ—ion in a little sillogisme And I will take for my Maior and for the first proposition of my antecedent that which thou hast confessed vnto me Take then my Syllâ—gisme God hath more power and authoritie then the Saintes Nowe the Pope is god â—â—go the Pope hath more power and authoritie then the Saints The Maior is alreadie confessed by thee It resteth now but for to prâ—ue the Minor and the second proposition and afterwards the consequence and conclusion sâ—albe certâ—ine and â—â—â—ubyâ—able Nowe but that the Pope is God in â—arth thou caâ—st not dâ—nyâ—st for many reasons the which I will not nâ—we shâ—we forth But I will do more For I will prâ—ue that he is not onely the God on earth but which is more in heauen and in hell and that he doth make things which God neuer did make Theophilus By that accempt the Pope then shall not haue not only more power then the Saints but more then God himselfe Hillarius It is very true and thou thy selfe shalt Iudge it prouided that thou do heare my reasons I will not alledge for confirmation of my theame that which saint Paul hath written of Antechrist the man of sinne the sonne of perdition which exalteth himselfe aboue all that is called god or which is worshipped so y he shal sit as god in the Temple of God and shew himselfe as God Notwithstanding that that Prophecie and titles doe agrée meruaylously well to that God of whom we speake But I will procéede by an other way the which shall serue for an exposition of those words of Saynt Paul. Theophilus If thou doest as thou sayst the Pope and all the Papists shall be much bounde vnto thée For they say onely that he is God in earth Now if he be but God in the earth he hath then nothing in heauen And he must not open the gates of Paradise vnto the soules of Purgatory And so I may serue my selfe with their publyque witnesse for to proue that which I said of his keyes which cannot be stretched foorth out of this earth Hillarius A man may easely reply thereon For according to their doctrine Purgatory is in the earth Wherefore sith hat he is God in earth he may well haue some power There should be an other reason if Purgatory were betweee the Moone and the earth where Plutarch putteth it except they will say that with the earth they doe also compare the ayre and all the other elements making the Pope aswell God in the ayre water and fire as in the earth at the least thou wilt not deny but that he may wel haue the keyes of hell for to leade thether the soules and that he is the God of the same if it be in the center of the earth according to the common opinion of his Doctors But for to come vnto the matter thou which art a Theologian knowest that there be two manner of wayes to see and know god There is a manner to sée him before aâ—â— a manner to see him behinde To see him before that is to say in his beeing glory and maiestie it is not giuen vnto mortall man For he shall not be capable of such vision and knowledge And therefore hée aunswered vnto Moses who desired to see his glory that he should not sée it before but he would shew vnto him onely his hinder and backe parts I doe vnderstand and meane according to that which I haue learned of some Theologians that to see and know the backe partes of God that is to see and know him by his workes by his effects and in his creatures For sith that he is incomprehensible vnto man in his substaunce glory and maiestie the way and manner that he hath giuen vnto man for to know
many do affirme by the commaundement of his owne sonne who secretly sent vnto him the hangman And therfore for that he dyed excommunicated hée was not buryed in the holy ground vntil that he was absolued and deliuered from his excoÌ„municating after his death by y pope by y meanes of which absolution hée was caried to Spire to the sepulchre of his fathers Wilt thou now deny that the pope hath not more power then the Saintes that he is not greater Lord then Iesus Christ asmuch to be feared or rather more then God For Iesus Christ hath said witnessed â—â—â—rely that his kingdome is not of this world But the Pope will haue it both in this world and in the other Furthermore he admonisheth vs not to feare those which can but onely kill the body and do no more but let vs feare him onely which is able to destroye both body and soule and to cast them into hell Sith then that the Pope attributeth vnto himselfe such power that after that y he hath killed the bodyes he persecuteth stil the soules after the body is dead and excommunicateth the dead and sendeth them into hell who will deny that he is not God and that he may not vse the authoritie of his keyes as well towardes the dead as towards the liuing And that his buls and pardons doe not extend and stretch foorth vnto the dead and to the soules of Purgatory As it appeareth by the doing of Pope Sixtus the fourth Innocent the eight Pascale the fift Calistus and a great many other Popes which haue giuen full remission by their buls and indulgences both to the quicke and the dead And oftentimes for small causes As for to goe and visite a certeine Chappell to make a certeine voyage and other like matters But vpon condition that he haue alwayes ready money And the better to witnesse that Popish deitie Pope Boniface the eight would not haue his Iubile among the Christians as God had it amonge the Israelites but of an other sort For God ordeined the yeare of the great Iubile from fiftie yeares to fiftie yeares for to comfort the poore people for to render and restore the wages and possessions vnto the poore that are in debt for to deliuer the poore bondmen out of seruitude bondage and for to prefigure and foreshew the yeare of grace and the deliuerance liberty which Iesus Christ ought to bring vnto the Christian people according to the prophesie of Esay and of the other prophets But the Pope Boniface in the yeare 1300 as if Iesus Christ was not come and that he had not by his comming declared vnto vs the yeare of y great Iubile which shall indure vntill the ende of the worlde by the which we are affranchised froÌ„ the serâ—tude of sinne death diuell and of hell as putting himselfe in the place of Iesus Christ hath constituteâ— his Iubile by the which he hath promised full remission of sinnes vnto all those which will come visite at Rome the Chuâ—ch of Saint Peter and of Saint Paul And hath commaunded that it should be alwayes celebrated from an hundreth yeares vnto an hundreth yeares For he feareth least the olde custome of the auncient Panims should in succession of time be altogether abolished Thomas What custome Hillarius They haue accustomed to play in the honor of their Gods iests histories and diuers other playes which they do call seculer playes bicause they do not celebrate it but from an hundreth to an hundreth yeares And therefore the Heraldes doe crye which declare and publish them Come sée the games the which none of you shal neuer se any more Eusebius But Boniface hath done cleane contrary to that y thou sayest For he hath constituted the Iubile for to abolish the memory of those Panish plaies Hillarius He hath chaunged playes into playes and those which profited him nothing at all he hath chaunged theÌ„ into others more profitable for him But the other Popes which came afterwards seing and perceiuing that that Iubile was too long for them and that they could not haue so good a part for their pray haue abrogated and made shorter the time And therefore Pope Clement the sixt hath remitted it froÌ„ 50. years to 50. years And after him Pope Sextus the fourth who hath deiâ—ied and put among the saints S. Bonauenture hath agayne remitted it from xxv yeares to xxv years and hath celebrated the first in the yeare 1475. Afterwards Alexander the sixt who was pope in the yeare 1500. following the example of Sextus hath yet better enlarged that Iubile For â—e hath not onely held kept it at Rome but hath so enlarged it thorowout all Christendome that there remayneth almost no citie village nor parish but that he hath made them pâ—rtaâ—ers of it Thomas They may then bée well called Gods liuetenaunts in earth For sith that they do it 〈◊〉 y â— â—â—â—t Iesus Christ is well at leasure He â—ught to haue no great care neither for the quicke nor for the dead sith that he hath such liuetenauntes we shall bée compelled to chaunge our Credo and whereas in the same we consesse that he shall come from heauen for to be the Iudge of the quicke and the dead we must giue that title vnto the Pope Hillarius A good Sophister wil easily absolue thy doubt For wee confesse that Iesus Christ shall come at the time appointed Wherefore they will conclude that Iesus Christ is not yet really and in euery déede Iudge of the quicke and of the dead but that he shal be Or if thou wilt that I doe tell thée in their language That he is Iudge Non actu sed habitu aptitudine but that the Pope is not onely in power remote future but actu in potentra propinqua propinquissima that is to say of act dâ—ede worke and power néere and present Thomas Beholve a goodly solution In the meane while then Iesus Christ shal rest and the Pope shall docâ—all Theophiluâ— I am abashed if their buls indulgences pardons haue such power How Gregory hath passed them ouer without making any mencion of them when he comprehended all the meanes by which the liuing might comfort the soules of purgatory For hée did put aâ—d declare â—nt foure and touched not one word of the buls and pardons But there is yet an other pointe that which y doctor Hostiensis which is of great reputatioÌ„ among the papises was not of opinion that the pope can doe such thinges by his pardons and indulgences but hath holden the contrary â—ea and the other doctors as Bonauenture Thomas of Aquin Alexander of Ales Giles Dâ—rand Richard Peter of Tarentaisâ— and many other like hauâ— had sometime the thing in doubt and haue onely disputed of it as of an opinion afterwardes haue taken vpon them baldnesse to define vpon it and to giue their sentence as if they were
which was there hid in a low place vnder the béere aunswered that he would Wherefore they dyd Baptise him in stéede of the dead Hillarius They had yet more appearance thē our Bishops Priests which baptised the bels Eusebius If those two arguments doe séeme vnto thée weake and feeble I will alldge vnto thée a stronger When S. Paul did write vnto the Philippians that vnto Iesus Christ is giuen a name aboue all names that in the name of Iesus should euery knée boow both of things in heauen things in earth things vnder the earth What vnderstādeth he by those which vnder the earth do boow their knées vnto Iesus Christ That cannot be vnderstanded of the diuels For they haue not accustomed to honour God nor the damned also For their office is rather to blaspheme him It must needes be then that they be in Purgatory which do boow the knée vnto Iesus Christ which do honour him or otherwise the words of S. Paul should not be true Theophilus If by boowing the knée S. Paul did vnderstande the true diuine seruice the true inuocation and the true honour which the elect doo owe vnto God ther should be some reason appearance in the argument But S. Paul by that manner of speaking meaneth none other thing by boowing the knée but that to Iesus Christ is giuen such domination that it is necessary that euery creature bée subiect vnto him and obeye him and acknowledge him to bee Iudge and Lorde the which the good and the elect dowillingly and with a good heart the wicked and reprebate in spite of their téeth But they are neuerthelesse campelled For they cannot resist the vertue and power of Iesus Christ which maketh his enimies his footstoole But the Apostle vseth such manner of speaking for to followe the stile of the Prophetes and to declere vnto vs that which the Lord hath sayde by I say I doe liue sayth the Lord Euery knee shal boowe vnto mee The which the Apostle expoundeth by other woords saying wee shall be all brought before the iudgement scate of Christ Afterwardes hee confirmeth that proposition by the very wordes of the Prophet declaring that all that commeth to one effect For bicause that the good and euill are compelled to render obedience vnto their Lordes and that they doe declare commonly their subiection and humilitie in boowing the knée and dooing reuerence before their Lorde the Scripture vseth such manner of speakinge for to signifie the obedience reuerence and subiection that euery creature must she we towardes god Although that the same may bée done diuerse wayes either by bowing the knées and without bewing the knées For the Angells and the soules can no better boowe their knees then the Diuels sith that all of thē haue no knées which cannot be but to bodies if we doe not vnderstande any otherwise those figures of speaking And therefore there is no inconuenience to vnderstande by those which do boow the knees vnder the earth the Diuels themselues with all the reprobate which shall all appeare before the iudgement seate of Christ and shall be cōpelled to acknowledge him to be their Iudge in great horrour and feare as they haue already shewed by experience in the time that Iesus Christ was yet in his mortall body passible before that he was risen againe For the wicked spirites were constrayned to obey him and to confesse him to be Christ and to pray vnto him Although that it was against their wills saying O Iesu thou sonne of God what haue wee to do with thee Art thou come hether to torment vs before the time be come We know that thou art the holy eue of God And they besought him saying If thou cast vs out suffer vs to goe our way into the herd of swine In the very same manner as they are compelled to entreate beseech Iesus Christ to confesse him so shall they be compelled to boow the knee vnto him And if they did that vnto him whilest that he was yet mortal passible what shal they do now sith that he sitteth immortal glorious at the right hand of God his father And if they doe beséech or pray to Iesus Christ may they not as well boow the knee vnto him In the sence the auncients haue vnderstāded Theophilactus expoūdeth it expresly of the diuels which shal be constrained to giue glory honour vnto Iesus Christ Eusebius If thou hast escaped that place I beleeue that thou shalt not escape so easily of the like written in the Apocalipse where it is sayd And all the creatures which are in heauen and on the earth vnder the earth in the sea and al that are in them heard I saying blessing he nor glory power be vnto him that sitteth vpon the seate and vnto the lambe for euermore Thou canst not héere say but that it is spoken of the true praise of the true honor which is due vnto God the which the diuels nor the reprobate cannot giue vnto him And yet neuertheles it is here said that there be creatures vnder the earth which do giue vnto him that praise which can be none other thē the soules of purgatory Theophilus You do lacke but the leg of a Fly for to build your arguments Doest thou not see that the holy Ghost vseth an enumeration by the which he witnesseth that all creatures in al places do praise their creator Iesus Christ the true lambe by whō all is restored But being not contēted to vse an vniuersal proposition he also woult by enumeratiō of creatures in perticuler conclude that in general bicause that that manner of speaking doth better expresse the thing doth amplifie better the glory of God declaring that there is not an element nor any place where God is not praised and magnified frō the highest part of heauen vnto the bottom of the earth from euery part of the world For as he writeth that the heauens declare the glory of God the firmament sheweth foorth his handy works Also there is not a creature whatsoeuer it bee neither in Heauen nor in the ayre nor in the water nor in the earth nor vnder the earth not so much as an Ant or Pismer neither a worme plant trée nor stone which preacheth not singeth prayseth magnifieth according to his nature in his manner Eusebius How can the mute and dumbe creatures speake being without reason and insensible which haue no sence reason vnderstandinge nor speach It must néedes be that we doe vnderstand that of men Theophilus How can the Angells the blessed soules speake and praise God which haue no mouth as we haue And how can the Firmament the Sunne the Moone and the starres declare and shew foorth the glory of God and declare his vertue and power for they haue no soule nor mouth as men haue Yet they haue neuerthelesse their mouth agréeing
Gospell Man without meanes hovv he vseth the out vvard things The feasts of that Panims contayâ—ned in the feast of Candelâ— mas Purification February Februales Lupereâ—es Serâ— Peâ—â—p â—â—no Februla Felrualâ— Februala Puâ—â—â—cations of vvoemen The vvhips of the Lupele les The 〈◊〉 of luno The robes gowns of the priests doing myracles Meria Fluon â— Durand Ral. dâ—â—â— off it â— Rub. le purif Mars Amburbales Regations Februus pluto Sacratices vnto the infernall gods VVatchings Vigdes for the dead The Cardelmas of Ceres and Preserpma Lactan. de fal religl li. 1. ca. 12. East 4â— Pope â—ergius Rat. Diui. off 7. Rub. de puâ—â— Adouis Theocri 〈◊〉 23. Lue. in det syriaâ— Hiero. tn Eâ—â— c. 8. 〈…〉 〈◊〉 de sal 〈◊〉 li. ca. 21. luke Saty. 8 Thammus Eze. 8. c. 14 Good Friday Easter Allelâ—ya H. 〈◊〉 The God Ris Apul. aluti aur 11 3. The true comme meration of the death of Iesus Christ Floralet Fast 5. Cereales Dishonour to the Virgin Mary Holy candells processions Representacion of the light of the Gospell Esi 40. b. 6. Act 13 g. 47. Act. 13. g. 47. Luc. 2. c 32. Psa 19. c. 9 Torehes of the Chrustans Mat. 5 b. 14 Mat. 15. b. 14. Mat. 2â— b. 16 Te humiliter deprecartur vs has candelas ad vsus omnia salutem animarum corporum sine in terra sine in aquis per inuecationemsancts fur nominis per intereessionem sancta Maria virginis genetricis fily tul cuius bodie sesla denels colimus per preces omnium sanct 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 benedicere sanctificate dig neâ—â— 1. Candells for the health of the soules bodyes Benedie Doms ne Iesu Christe haue creaturam cere supplicanti bus nobis c. Item Benedico te creatura cera in nomine Domini nostri sancte Trio nstntis us sis exterminatio diaboli omnium conterbur nalium esus Charmes The ad iurati of the holy water salte Exercisnius salis Exorciso te creatn salis per De um †vinum per Deum †verum per Deum †sanctum per Deum qui te per Eliseum prophetam in aquam mitti iussit vt sanaresur steulitas aque vt effectâ—ris sale porcizatom in salutem credentiam vt sisommtleas te 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 lulian the Apostate The Temple of Fortune The spâ—â—kings at the entrmg in coming forth on the Temple The sprinklings at the entring in and comming forth of the temple A Priest being stroken A potheme of Diogenes Exorcismus aqua Exerciso te creatura aqua in in nomine Dei patris ¶ omnipotentis in no mine Domini lesu †Christi â—â—â—â— eiusdem domins nostri in virtute Spiritus †sancti vt sias aqua exoressata ad effu gandam onme polestatem mimici ipsum inimicum eradicare explantare valeas cum Angelis suis Apostaticis per virtutem c. Hem. Huic elemento multimodis purificatioâ— nibus prepara to virtute tue bene †dictiones infunde vt ad abijcrendos demones morbosâ— pellendos diuine gratie sumat officium vt quic quid in damib vel in locis sidelum hec vndarespersit careat omnium immuÌ„ dits â— liberat a noxla non illic resideat spiritus pestilens noÌ„ aura corruÌ„pens diseedant omnesinsidie laten tis inimite c. Item vt 〈…〉 〈…〉 The coniuting of the vvater A plaister for all sores The vertue of Iesus Christ Chaunged reserred to the creatures The order and vse of ceremomes chaunged The difference betvveene a good Philosopher a charmer Magician The Sacraments The fire y god of the chaldeâ—s Persiansâ— Hier. Nicol. in Genes 12. d. 27. Tareh Abraham Cal. Rod lec aut li 15. ca. 15 Iosua 24. a. 2 Liui. lt 1. 5 Macro Satur lt t. c. t. 12 plu in Num. ex Camd Ouid. Fast 1 6. Stralâ— li. 9 Plat. in vit Sabâ—nt Cal. aul lec li 15. ca. 14. August de cin Des. lâ— 21. c. 6 Phin. li 1. ca. 1 Idolatry of the sire of the Planets Lue. Flor in Numa Flat de Pbilo dogm VA in Camillo God compared to the fire Deut. 4. d. 24. Hebr. 12. g. 19. Exo. 3. a. 2. Act. 7. d. 31. 3. Reg. 18. f. 33 Rxo. 3. 2. 2. Act. 7. d. 31. Images the instruments of the Diuel The titles of the Images The povver of the fire about the others gods Xetxes The temples burned In Asia Solin ca. 53. Temple of Diana the EphestaÌ„ Act. 19. e. 24 Strab. â—â— 14 Ph. li. 16. c. 41. â—â— 36. ca. 34 The Persians without Temple and Images In Numâ— Dionys Halicar in Numa Ould Fast. â— The temple of Diana burned Gehlia Herostrotus Soli. ca. 53 Couetous of renovvne The natiuitle cf Alexander Olympiss Suiadas in dict Canop God Canopus The crafte and disceite of the Priest of Canopus Cal. Rho. lec aut li. 15. c. 15. The victory of Canopus The fire â—â—ter 〈◊〉 gods of y Papists 〈◊〉 on of the paseall tire Rat d. ui off li 6. Rab de benecer The interpretatioÌ„ of the Benediction of the nevv nee Luc. 12. g. 49. Iohn 1. a 9 8. b. 9. a. 5. ler. 5. d. 14. 23. s 29 The signification of the perpetuall fire of the burnt offring Leuit. 6. b. 13. Heb. 9. c. 11. 10. e. 11. 1. Pet. 4. c. 13 Plutus in Num. Macrob. Satur. li. â— ca. 12 The new fire of the Panims Val. Max. li. 1. cap. 1. The fire of Vesta Plut. in Camillo ouid Fast 6. The Paschall Taper Rat. diui off li. 6. Rab. de den cer Zozmie and Theodorus The most puissaunt god of the Priestes The holy and â—â—ered fire of the Persias â—rs Mark. t. cal Râ—ls lec 〈◊〉 8 aa 2. The holy hoâ—â— The pracction of the serst God and the ho y fir e. The strength of the gold and of Yren Augustin The golde pale The fise made a god Rom. 4. 2. 5 Est 43. b. 11 A true lustory of the Priestes god burned Tevves among the christiaus Exconci Aurel An other history The fire kindeled in the tempâ—e of Vesta Metellus Dyont in Numa Ouid. Fast 6 Palla lium The hand kercheife of Chamber Pli. li. 7. c. 43 Ouid. Fast 3 Ancyla Luil li. 1. Diana of the Ephesians Act. 19. c. 24. Disputacions of the asshes of the hoste The accidens burned Accidens vvith Out substaiuice The trne fire Mat. 3. c. li. Act. 2. 3. â— The gods of the fire and vvater The Aquaticall theology Fast 2. Purgations Fast 2. Veniall sinnes put avvay by vvater Mortall sinnes Mat 12. c. 32 1. Iohn 5. c. 13. Veniall sinnes Rom. 8. a. 1. 4. Sent. dist Tho. par 4. q. 7. ar 2. in Ma 6. Pope Alexan. 5. de consec dist 3. cap. aquam A comparison betvveene theasshet of a Heyfer theâ—roater 4. Reg. 2. d. 21 The bloude of Iesus Heb. 9. d. 13 Leuit. 16. c. 14 The error of y
hope either to merit or not to merit and a place to do good or euill as in this mortal life and to be damned or saued Eusebius There is great difference For in this life man may merit or not merit of him selfe But after he is dead he can do no more for him selfe but others may do it for him And the merites of those that bee alyue doe serue him to saluation Theophilus And so by that meanes Iesus Christe shal be a Sauiour neither of the lyuing nor of the dead the merite of his death and passion shall saue neither the one nor the other but the lyuing shall saue themselues during their life and after their death others that shal be thē alyue shal saue them especially the Priestes and Moonks By that meanes we haue many sauiours and men should neuer be certaine nor sure of their saluation neither before their death nor afterwards whiche is a thing altogether contrarie to the doctrine of the scriptures Eusebius And if I would maintaine that those which are in hell can be somewhat deliuered from the pains theroff eyther by the prayers and good déedes of the liuing or bicause of the good deedes that they themselues haue done during their life that should be a strange thing vnto thée What wouldest thou aunswere to that Haue wee not the witnes of a great many histories and good doctours worthy to be beleeued which certefie vs how that Sainct Gregory deliuered Traianus the Emperour from the paines of hell who notwithstanding did put to death many of the Christians and namely Sainct Ignacius the discyple of S. Iohn the Euangelist It is in like manner written in the life of the fathers that Sainct Machaire deliuered a priest being a Panim who affirmed vnto him that he was damned And in the life of sainct Brandon we read that hee did sée Iudas which walked by the meadowes of whom he asked the cause wherefore he was not in hell who aunswered him bicause of the good deedes that he did in his life time he had therefore some solace and comfort Theophilus If Thou canst no better confirme my sentence nor better proue that your doctrine is altogether vncerteine variable inconstant and gamesayinge it selfe For hast thou not alreadie confessed vnto me that the priestes do not praye for the dampned bicause that there is no deliuerance from hell and from the fire of hell Consider I pray thée how that agreeth with those goodly fables with that which thou meanest now to speake off Eusebius If you had read diligently the bookes of the good auncient doctors and especially of Saint Thomas you might easely make all these places agrée For they do alledge foure opinions reasons for to satisfie suche doubts The first is that Traianus was raysed thorow the prayers of Sainct Gregory and that he dath done penance in this life thorowe the which he meryted grace and pardon of his sinnes Wherefore he is dead in the grace of God and hath bene saued and this is the best allowed opinion of the doctors The second is that the soule of Traianus was not simplye deliuered from the paine and fault thereof but that his paine was suspended and delayed vntill the daye of iudgement and afterwardes shal be saued The thyrd opinion is that Gregory deliuered him not from the place of hell but from the paine The fourth which is also best allowed among all the other that the soule of Traianus was deliuered from the paines of hell and hath obtayned mercie thorow the prayers of Sainct Gregory the which thing was done not after the common law but after the disposition and dispensation of the wisdome and prouidence of God who did foresee that Sainct Gregory should pray for him Wherefore it hath not dampned it by or through diffinitiue sentence but by a sentence suspenciue The which thing hath bene a perticuler priuiledge For Sainct Hierome saith that the priuiledges are but for a fewe people and not for all For the priuiledges of a fewe are not lawes common to all And the things which go out of square from the common lawe ought not to bee drawen into a consequence Hillarius I thinke that that is the priuiledge whiche is written in the Aeneados of Virgill the which Cyble recited speaking to Aeneas after this manner Then prophet Cyble said O borne of bloud of heauenly kind Thou Troyan Duke the way that leads to hell is light to finde Both nights and dayes the doore of Limbo blacke doth open gape But backward vp to climbe and free to Skies est soones to scape Their woorkes their labour is few men whom equall loue did loue Our vertue pearcing all did to the starres aduaunce aboue Beholde the priuiledge of that good doctor whiche peraduenture Iupiter in whom Traianus did beléeue granted vnto him Theophilus I do greatly meruayle both of Thomas of Aquin and of other questionarie doctors whiche haue taken suche great paines for to couler and set foorth a fable It must be that they haue had very much leasure and that they were not muche occupied about other better affaires They would sooner haue giuen a more true and certeine solution if they had by and by answered that they receiued not such fables as some of their owne secte haue done namely our maister Iohn Maioris the Scotte the whiche I haue heretofore heard reade in the Colledge of Mountaigu Hee reiecteth without making anye doubt both the history of Sainct Machaire and also that of S. Brandon As touching that same of Traians although that he alledge the common solutions of other doctors yet neuerthelesse he first doth aunswer that he knoweth not from whence that history had his first beginning the which hath no certaine author not withstanding that some doe attribute it vnto Iohn Damascenus But how shoulde hee haue written it sith that according to their owne witnesses and chronicles he raigned long time before that saint Gregory lyued and was dead before that Sainct Gregory was borne For their chronicles do witnes that Damascenus florished in the years of our Lord 440. And that he was very familier with the Emperour Theodosius The which yet neuerthelesse I beléeue not For by that account he had lyued in the time of Sainct Ambrose neuerthelesse there is great differēce betweene his bookes and these of Sainct Ambrose For these of Sainct Ambrose are a great deale purer keepe a great deale better the puritie of that aunciēt church But peraduenture they meane the young Theodoseus which rayned after Honorius Although that it be so by their owne Chronicles he was before the time of Gregory about 152. yeares For they do write that Gregory reigned in the yeare 592. Hillarius It must néeds be then that either the Chronicles are false or the witnes of those the do make Damascenus the author of that fable Except peraduenture they will say that thorow the spirite of prophecie he hath