churche permitteth to baptise at all times And your congregation M. Iuell is content also to goe from the olde manner and to baptise on the Sundayes and holie daies whether there be anie necessitie or none If all this satisfie yow not but the churche must nedes appeare coram vobis in youre L. consistorie to giue a reason whie she forbiddeth not all men now to be present at the masse sauing those that will communicate as once yow saie she did although he shoulde offre yow no wronge that should first bidde yowe proue that she were subiect to youre iurisdiction and then afterwarde to propose youre interrogatories yet will she not deale with yow after that sorte but is contented because she is illustris persona and can not be compelled by the lawe personallie to appeare to send yowe her aduocate S. Austen who answereth for her in this sorte Sicut aeger non debet reprehâ—ndere medicinalem doctrinam c Euen as the sicke man ought not to reprehend the phisicions prescriptes commaunding him one thing to daye an other to more we yea forbidding that which before he coÌ„maunded for so required the healthe of his bodie to haue it Euen so man kinde from Adam vnto the ende of the worlde so long as the corruptible carcas being sicke and wounded annoieth the soule maie not finde faulte with goddes phisike if in this it commaunde one thinge in that an other one thinge first the contrarie after Lo M. Iuell I trust yowe see that lawes maie be in the churche altered and changed as the time and manners of meÌ„ require and that no maÌ„ ought to grudge or murmure at the change thereof And by this also I trust it appeare vnto you that it was not so vnhandsome a coÌ„parison as yow saide it was that M.D. Cole made when he resembled the state of the churche in the apostles time to the age of infancie The which because yow sawe your selfe yow coulde not well denie and that by the graunting thereof your parte woulde be the worse yow turne his wordes an other waie because yow woulde seme to saie somwhat and impudentlie father apon him that he shoulde call Christe and his apostles enfantes But I praie yow good sir by the waie let me be so bolde to aske yow being a marchant of logicke and sent from the wisdom of your father to scoffe at all other mennes reasons that went before yowe emongest whome yow haue not spared S. Austen although either of malice or of ignoraÌ„ce yowe attribute his reason of Peters primacy and so by a consequent the B. of Rome his to Roffensis what price bare logike which at other times was yowe saye so good cheape when yowe made this argument he saith the churche vvas in Christes and in his apostles time in her enfancie Ergo he calleth Christe and the apostles enfantes Trulie I thincke the marcket was risen and good stuffe verie deare when my L. bishop thought to vtter such homelie ware as this is If a man had saide of the famouse vniuersitie of Paris in Charles the greate his time when it was first erected that it was then in her enfancie had he called Alcuinus that greate clercke and all the rest of the learned doctours called thither to plant good learning babes and infantes If of your scattred congregation one shoulde saie that it were yet vnder that age of infancie I wene no man woulde thincke that Iohn Caluin if he now liued wer called a babe No he wer like to kepe his olde name still for all that I warrant yow and the rest of your pillers to But here it is a worlde to see howe thorough ignorance yow be shamefullie deceauid in taking one for an other If yow had readen S. Austen so diligently as reason woulde yow shoulde bothe him and the rest of the doctours toe before yow had made your chalenge Yow shoulde haue founde that yow reprehended not so muâ—h M. Cole as yow did vnwares S. Austen Whose wordes agreing with his I haue thought good here to alleage that all men maye see how ignorance hath deceiued yow The wordes arre these Dominus enimipse in corpore suo quod est ecclesia iunior fuit primis temporibus ecceiam senuit For oure lorde that is to saye him selfe was in his body that is the church yonge at the first and now lo beholde he is becomen olde And a little after autem Christi quod est ecclesia tanquâm vnus quid am homo primâ—o iunior fuit ecce iam in fine seculi est in senecta pingui The body of Christ which is his churche was as it wer a man at the beginning yong and now beholde in the ende of the worlde it is in a ripe or fâ—ll age But leauing this as wide of my purpose I shall returne thither from whence I haue digressed Well let it be graunted yow wil saye that the churche hath power to alter and chaunge thinges indifferent apon occasion and as necessitie requireth what such occasion was there here to reuoke that olde commaundement that all that wer presente at the masse shoulde receiue with the prieste or elles departe Will yowe know I shall shewe yowe an occasion If the churche then when although all woulde not some yet there were that failed not dailie to communicate with the prieste forbad those that would not so much as to be present with other that did thinking therebie to drawe the worse to the imitation of the better founde at the length by experience that not onelie by this restreinte theie were nothinge amendid but by absteining from that communion in the which oftentimes before theie were wont spirituallie by the swete remembraunce of Christes deathe and passion in those holie misteries to ioyne with the prieste in their manners and liues not a littell empaired If the churche I saie apon these considerations bearing like a good mother with the infirmities of her children willing rather to holde her selfe contented with a littell with their good willes then to leese all deuotion with their euell released the former coÌ„maundement was it not trowe yowe cause sufficient But all this M. Iuell I must desire yowe to take as spoken vnder an if that if yow can be hable to proue anie such commaundement of the churche yowe maie haue a reason whie the same hath bene abrogate and taken a waie To make an ende and to knit vp the knot of this present article I haue here thought good M. Iuell that if yow minde to write againe yow maye finde in fewe wordes couched together the some of all that hath bene saide touching this matter before briefelie to showe the catholike doctrine in this pointe which is this First the catholikes forbid no man meete for the holie misteries to receiue with the prieste when and as often as he listeth but wishe and hartelye praie that all men woulde so put theÌ„selues in ordre as at euerie masse there mighte be that
A PROVFE OF CERTEYNE ARTICLES IN RELIGION DENIED BY M. IVELL sett furth in defence of the Catholyke beleef therein by Thomas Dorman Bachiler of Diuinite VVHERE VNTO is added in the end a conclusion conteinyng .xij. Causes vvhereby the Author acknovvlegeth hym self to haue byn stayd in hys olde Catholyke fayth that he vvas baptized in vvysshyng the same to be made common to many for the lyke stay in these perilouse tymes Augustinus contra literas Petiliani lib. 2. cap. 16. Si quaeras quibus fructibus vos esse potius lupos rapaces cognoscamus obijcio schismatiâ— trimeâ— quod tu negabis ego autem statim probabo Nequé enim communicas omnibus gentibus illis ecclesijs Apostolico labore fundatis that is to say If thou demaundest he speaketh to Petilian the Heretick by vvhat fruictes I knovv you to be rather the rauening vvolues I obiect to you the fault of scisme vvhich thou vvilt deny but I vvil out of hand proue for thou doest not communicat vvith all Nacions nor vvith those churches founded by th'apostles labour Imprinted at Antwerp by Iohn Latius at the signe of the Rape with Priuilege Anno 1564. REgiae Maiestatis Priuilegio permissum est Thomae Dormanno sacrae Theologiae Baccalaureo vti per aliquem Typographorum admissorum impuneâ—e ei liceat imprimi curare per omnes suae ditionis Regiones distrahere Librum inscriptum A prouf of certeyn articles in religion denyed by M. Iuell omnibus alâ—s inhibitum ne eundem absque eiusdem Thomae consensu imprimant velalibi impressum distrahant sub poena in Priuilegio contenta Datum Bruxellae 14. Iul. Anno. 1564. Subsig Facuwez TO THE RYGHT VVORSHIPFVLL MASTER Thomas Hardyng Doctor of Diuinite Thomas Dorman Bachiler of the same sendeth gretyng and wyssheth health of bodye and soule IT prycketh now fast if my memory fayle me not ryght worshipfull sir towardes the poyncte of seuenteen yeares when I beyng a yong nouyce of Caluyns relygyon was fyrst by my frendes brought to that famouse schole at Wynchester of bishop VVyckham hys foundation At which tyme it pleased you of your goodnes beyng then one of them who had for that yeare the right and auctoritie in that behalf without monye without rewarde without commendation of frendes apon the onlye contemplacion and respect of my pooer and nedye estate and some lyttle hope perhapps conceiued hereof that once the tyme myght coÌ„me when I should not be alltogether vnprofytable eyther to my countrye that brought me forth eyther to the place that should nouryshe me vp to bestowe apon me beyng then a futer for that purpose your voyce or suffrage for th' obteinyng of a place emon gest the scholers there By the benefyte whereof I was the same yeare made one of that numbre brought home agayn to Chrystes churche from whence I was strayed and fynally haue obteyned that knowledge and small vn derstanding yfyet emongest the learned it may be accompted any to the which you now see me growen True ytis I can not denye yt that other helpes God hath sence that tyme prouyded for me to the furnyshyng and makyng perfect of that buyldyng the foundacion whereof by your handes he fyrst disposed to be layde To whome I mynde not nether to showe my self in tyme and place of so great benyfytes by them receaued eyther vnmyndfull or vnthanckfull In the meane season yf as next after God of that profytt which I haue taken in my studye what so euer yt be I accompt you for the author and verye founder thereof so I doe with the scripture askyng quis plantat vineam et de fructueius non comedit offer to you such as they ar the fyrst fruictes thereof for a taste and that apon the groundes of the law whych wyll that the most auncient debt be first discharges before all other none I trust of my other frendly cre dytours wyll be therewithall offended Thys hath byn ryght worshypfull sir the verye cause of my boldnesse in offeryng to you thys rude and symple treatyse of myne Wherein yf any offence on my part haue byn commytted impute it I praye you to the abundanâ—e of the great good will that I beare towardes you and the necessitie that I thought my self to stand in for the testifyeng of my mynd ready in some part to discharge as I was hable my dutye to you Fare you wel at Aquicinctum the seat of my banyshment your mastershyps to commaund Thom. Dorman TO THE READERS I Am not ignorant good Readers of the manyfold daungers wherinto what so euer he be he wyllyngly as yt wer casteth hym self who publysheth any thyng to the world in wrytyng The whych confy deration after that I had well weighed and deepely debated wyth my self of what mynde I was touchyng the sendyng abroade of thys lytle treatyfe of myne any man may easely iudge For I besydes those sawcy snaphaunces and murmuryng momi whome no mans doyngs can please but there owne which fortune I tooke to be common to me wyth many foresawe also my self not wythout good cause in apparence ready to fall in to the iust and lawfull reprehension euen of those whose iudgements I haue alwayes both loued and feared the wyser the learneder and the better sort also Whylest after so godly so graue so exact a worck most amply treatyng of the same matter I of all other moost vnfyt therefore should seeme to take pen in hand to wryte agayne This one cause appeared to me to be of such importance that I was euen fully resolued to stay my hand and trauell herein no farder When sodenly beholde emongest dyuerse other it camme to my mynde to thynck on the earnest desyre and godly greedy hunger of my pooer countrymen I meane not the Catholykes only but euen of those whome simplicitie not malice hath caused to stray whereof I was to my great comfort dayly enformed wyth what labour they fought for wyth what diligence they harckened after wyth what sauory appetyte they receaued in to ther myndes and as it wer deuoured such bookes as brought them any tydyngs of the truthe Whereapon I discoursed farder wyth my self that eâ—en as in a plague of famyn or dearthâ— he that hauyng in hys barnes no great stoare of corne but yet somme beyng once well mynded and charytably moued to employ part of that lytle which he had to the comfort and relyef of hys pooer hungrye neyghbours should in all mens iudgement doe verye â—uell yf afterward apon the liberall almoise of some welthyer man he should vtterly wythdrawe hys and because hys habylytie serueth hym not to gyue as muche gyue nothyng at all euen so me thought it fared wyth me who myndyng these two whole yeares past to conferre some part of that small prouysyon that allmyghty god hath bestowed on me to publyke coÌ„modytie could not now I perswaded my self suppresse and kepe in the same wythout the manyfest offendyng of hys holy spyryt who fyrst moued me
hereafter In the meane season that theie will haue of Christes church here in earthe no other head but Christ him self therein they fare me thincketh not much vnlike to a certein â—elon of whome I haue harde that being areigued 〈◊〉 â—he bar for a felonie when he had pleadid to the 〈◊〉 not guilty and was after the manner demaunded how he would be tried he would suspecting his own case and knowing that if he satisfied the law in putting him self apon the tryall of the country there wer no moe waies with him but one make thereto no other answer but onely that he would put him self apon god the righteous iudge of all who although he saide truely that god was the chief iudge of all as the protestants doe in calling Christ the head of the churche yet was there in his case an other iudge here in this worlde vnder god by whom he must haue byn tried as there is in theirs an other head here in the churche to ordre them and kepe them vnder and in whom Christ the chief head of all vseth in all necessary knowledge to giue answer And as the felon knewe well that there was an other iudge beside god and appealed not to him as though before him he should haue ben acquitted and proued not guilty but onelie to gaine a longer time of life and libertie so doe I dout not our aduersaries the protestants And trulie to both thiese kynde of men being bothe theeues th'one sort doing violence to the body the other to the soule if such pleas might be allowed howe so euer they be coloured with the name of Christ betwene them both they would freelie robbe the body and murther the soule But let vs now examine this reason of theirs whereof they ar wont so much to triumphe Christ is head of the church Ergo the pope is not Ergo it câ—a haue no other head That Christ is the head of the church we graunted before and none of our syde did euer yet deny yt But as it is most manifest that Christ him self is the worcker of all his sacraments for he baptizeth he forgiueth sinnes he consecrateth his blessed body and bloud he ioineth together in matrimony the man and his wife and yet forasmuch as he should nedes departe out of this worlde and could not alwaies dwell with vs after a corporall manner he hath chosen ministres to dispense those his giftes by And we saye and no fault found therewith that the priest his ministre baptizeth that he forgiueth sinnes that he consecrateâ—h his most preâ—ious body and bloud So after the same manner and for the same cause that is to say because he could not be alwayes present with vs in such sort as we might see him and speake with him face to face to be resolued at his mouth of such doubtes and questions as should arâ—se emongest vs he left vs also one that in that his absence should gouern and rule his whole churche He remaineth neuerthelesse head thereof he ruleth he reigneth he exerciseth his power and authorite in the same but yet by man his ministre whome for that cause most aptly the Scholasticall writers haue termed caâ—â—â— minâ—â—â—eriale that is to saye a head but yeat by the reason of his seruice and ministerie vnder an other that is Christ â—ho is onelie absolutely simply and without all relation to any other the head thereof Not as though he wer not hable to rule the same without any such help or instrument which he could haue doen also in the olde lawe where his pleasure was that the people should resort to the chief priest to be resolued in all doutes arising apon the lawe and had no more nede of help then then he hath now but for that this waye it hath pleased hym to 〈◊〉 his exâ—eding great loue towards mankind 〈…〉 of emongest men such as he will execute 〈…〉 worlde 〈◊〉 as he will vse as his mouth to 〈◊〉 the secretes of his holâ—e pleasure to vs and fâ—â—ally such as should represent to vs his owne parson Because Châ—â—stâ—s king of all kinges and lord of all lordâ—â— because if it so pleased him he could rule all this worlde much better then it is ruled without the help of any other whereof he hath his absolute power considered no nedeâ— shall we therefore say that there be not nor nede to be any kynges here in â—â—â—the When S. Paule called the man the head of the woman denied he therefore Christ to be her head Kinge Saul when he was called by the prophet Samuel caput in tribubus Israël the head of the tribues of Israel was god thinck you excluded that he should not be their head To vse examples more familier th'archebishop of Cauntorbury is the head of the bishoprick and diocesse of London as he is of all the bishoprickes within his prouince and yet can not a man infer apon this that therefore the B. of London is not the head of that his diocesse But Christ hath no suche nede our aduersaries crye still to haue any man to be in his stede to succede him in the whole enheritance Nam Christum semper adesse eccle siae suae vicario homine qui ex asse in integrum â—uccedat non â—gere these be their very wordes in their apologie Here would I like a frinde aduertise them that for ther pooer honesties sake they harp not to much on this string left by their so doing they comme as nere to the heresie of Suenkfeldius as he whom in their apologie they falselie sclaunder therewith is far bothe from that and all other For Suenkfeldius emongest other his abhominable heresies hath also this in my opinioÌ„ the chiefest that we ought to banish vtterly from emongest vs all scripture and as Hosius writeth of him thys heresie of hys to derogate from the scriptures all auctoritie he went also about to proue bi scripture But howe I praie you good readers By what reason thinck you would he haue proued this diuelish and most absurde doctrine Beleue me or rather your owne iudgements seing and perceiuing most plainely that I lie not by the self same reasons that our aduersareis doe vse to proue that Christes churche here in earth can haue vnder him no head or chief gouernour to gouern the same Thow must not be parfect in the scriptures saith this stincking heretike Swenckfield But whie because forsooth we must be taught at gods mouth because his worde teacheth truly the scripture is not his worde but dead lettres and no more accompte to be made of them then of other creatures emongest the which they ar to be reconed We must loke to be taught froÌ„ heauen not out of bookes The holie ghost vseth to coÌ„me froÌ„ aboue without the help of meanes as hearing preaching or reading the scriptures Thieâ—e be that wicked heretike his folish and vnsauery persuasions And what other thing is it I praie you good readers
emperour yet hath he not thereby gotten auctoritie to depose bishoppes and ordeine newe â–ª which onely bishoppes must doe So strange a thing semed it then good readers in Christes churche which nowe we see so commonly done Long after thiese emperours start vp Leo Isaurus emperour of Constantinople he that made war with images Ageinst him god raised vp also his Azarias one to warn him of his duetie and that was that notable learned man Iohn Damascenus Giue saith he the apostle Paule crieth to euery one his due honor feare pension tribute to eche one that which they ought to haue The charge that kinges haue is to see well to their common weales the ordering of the churches apperteineth to the pastours and teachers This manner of inuading other mennes offices I can terme it no better my brethern then robbery and plaine violence And a little after he hath thiese wordes Tibi ô rex in ijs quae pertinent ad presentis vitae negocia c. As for those thinges ô king which concern onely this presâ—nt life in those we willingly obey the. In ordering thâ— state of the churche we haue shepherdes which haue spoken to vs the worde of god that is to saie taught it vs and haue left vs rites and ordres therefore And in the same place he addeth Non recipio regeÌ„ qui per tyrannidem sibi sacerdotiuÌ„ vsurpat I acknowledge him for no king that vsurpeth by tirany the priestes office And last of all to knit vp the knot in plaine wordes he saith Non assentior vt regum legibus gubernetur ecclesia sed patrum potius traditionibus siue scriptae hae sint siue non scriptae I consent not saith he that the churche of god shalbe gouerned by the lawes of kinges but by the traditions rather of oure fathers be they written or vnwritten And thus much hetherto good readers haue I thought good to reherce that yow may the better vnderstand how the auncient fathers of Christes churche haue not ceased continually from time to time to resist the vnlaufull attempt of such princes as being heretikes or enueigled theretoe by heretikes for of other perdy it was neuer gone about nor of all them neither would contrary to the expresse worde of god the custome of Christes churche from the beginning continued the alowed exaÌ„ples of all ages of all common weales Christian and heathen hetherto practised mingle heauen and earth holie and prophane together by vnlawfull vsurping to them selues the supreme and chief gouernement in causes ecclesiasticall To come nearer home to our owne time and daies if in it any prince haue attempted the like there hath not lacked also stoare of diuerse meÌ„ singuler bothe for their vertuous life and exquisite learning which haue rather chosen to withstand the same with the expence of their bloud and losse of this present life then to the vtter destructioÌ„ of both body and soule and losse of that which must continue for euer to consent thereto But if thiese examples please not the deinty tast of the aduersaries as being ouer stale I shall set before them their owne deare derling the piller while he liued of their religion the very head of their churche if they be not all together headlesse their Idol and their god in earthe whose doctrine and opinions at other times and in other thinges they haue so rauenouslie deuoured Iohn Caluin him self For if kinges and temporall gouernours as our aduersaries affirme ought euerie one of them in their realmes signories and dominions to gouerne in causes ecclesiasticall and matters of religion whie did then that monsterous beaste in his comentaries apon the prophetes Osâ—e and Amos rayl apoÌ„ our late souereigne lorde king Henrie the eight calling him homo belluinus a beastelie maÌ„ and comparing him with Iehû whome he termeth wicked and nought Why termed he theÌ„ blasphemers that first buzzed into his eares that vaine desire to be called chief head of the churche of England for of other yow wot well he neuer attempted to be nor euer was called vnder Christe here in earth If Caluin haue taught the truthe then haue his scholers taught vs and yeat doe feede vs with lies If they wer blasphemers that called king Henrie chief head of the churche of England vnder Christ which is to saie in effect nothing elles but to be chief gouernour in all causes belonging to the same who was yet a man although laie and thereto also of great wisdome and learning in what degree of blasphemie shall we place them that giue this title not to laie men onelie but to women also and children with out respect If Caluin who touching the giuing of this vnlaufull title to our late lord and maister was vtterly innocent coÌ„plained yet that euen his conscience was wounded not a little there withall how much more daungerousely wounded ought they to thinck them selues who of so many horrible and bloudly woundes whereby for the refusall to folow this example in christes churche neuer hard of before so many godly learned and innocent men in this realme haue died some by heading some by hanging some by quartering and tearing peace meale one membre from an other haue by ther false and vntrue suggestions byn the chief and onelie occasion who yet like cruell bloudsuckers and bloudy bourreâ—aus cary about in their murdering aud malicious mouthes the naked knife which wer it laufull for them they would sheathe in the throates of euerie one of vs that thinck not as they doe But if now on the contrarie part their maister Caluin wer deceauid if they be in the right and he in the wrong why steppeth none of them furth to defend and vindicate from perpetuall infamy that prince of famouse memory which by his railing writinges this wretched caytiff goeth about to bring him into why haue they left him so long vndefended who did no other thing then whereof them selues wer the authors and first beginners Or why at the least purge theie not them selues of the horrible crime of blasphemie laied by him to their charges and all such as theie ar for if they wer blasphemers that called king Henrie head of the churche of Englande what priuilege haâ—e thiese that calling not onelie him but his sonne and daughter by the same title in effect they should not incurre the same crime Where is now their spirit of vnitie that they ar wont so much to bragge of which dissent not here in any small poinct or from any meane man but euen from the chiefest caterpiller whyle he liued of their congregatioÌ„ who not onely in thiese places before by me alleaged kepeth as it wer with their proceadings a combat but elles where in his InstitutioÌ„s doeth merueilousâ—y discredit the same And in steede of manie places which might be brought here out of his worckes I shall onely for this time be coÌ„tented to alleage one in such sort as I finde it in the frenche because at the writing hereof
saieth This is my bodie and not contented there with least some man might otherwise construe his wordes because he had at other times spoken by figures addeth the selfe same which shalbe betraied for yowe then which wordes if all the worlde would lay their heades together to deuise howe he might haue spoken more plainelie theie shall neuer finde the waie they bring vs a glose cleane contrarie to the texte that it signifieth his bodie that it is a figure thereof But what seing as S. Ambrose saieth oure lorde Iesus witnesseth vnto vs that we truly receaue his body and bloud shall we dout of his credite and witnes Naie we haue other councell and better by Cirillus who biddeth vs not to doute whether this be true or no but to embrace in faith the wordes of our Sauior who for as much as he is the truthe it selfe we maie well be suer can not lie Thus maie yowe see good Readers what it is to deale with heretikes whose propertie is alwaies to crie for scripture and in whose mouthe there is nothing so coÌ„mon as verbum domini verbum domini the worde of the lorde the worde of the lorde and yet when all is done and their request satisfied that is scripture brought to them theie ar not asshamed such is their impudencie either to saie that it is at all no scripture or that it maketh nothing ageinst them or to call that euident for them that in the iudgement of as manie as either ar wise or learned is moste euident ageinst them And of this disease if yowe had not M. Iuell bene daungerouslie sicke yowe would neuer haue put me or anie man elles to the paine to labour anie farder in the boulting oute of that truthe wherein Christe hath so plainelie opened him selfe as neither hath he nede by anie other to be expounded nor easelie can anie such I trowe be founde as shalbe hable more plainelie to expresse the same then hath Christe him selfe our maister allreadie doen. Notwithstanding because bothe yowe and your compaignions like cauilling Capernaites stande apon Christes meaning which as yowe saie was not all one with his wordes and also on this that we haue no olde writers to mainteine as it pleaseth yowe to terme it oure newe doctrine of Christes reall presence in the sacrament I shall assaie to make yow vnderstande at the least those good people whome yow haue so far abused that we haue agreate sorte more that saie with vs that Christes blessed bodie after the wordes of consecration duelie by the priest pronounced is reallie substantiallie and corporallie the same that was borne of the virgin Marie the same that he walcked in here in earthe the same that as him selfe witnesseth was deliuered for vs to be crucified on the crosse present in the sacrament then euer yow or the best that taketh your parte shall in susteining the contrarie be hable of them all to giue a right answer to anie one And here I shall first alleage that auncient writer Tertullian in whome writing aboue thirtene hundred yeares sence I finde to this purpose these wordes Caro corpore sanguine Christi vescitur vt anima de Deo saginetur non possunt ergo separ ari in mercede quas opera coniungit that is to saie Our fleshe feedeth on the bodie and bloude of Christe that the soule also maie be made fat by feading on god theie can not therefore be separated in rewarde which haue bene ioined and coupled together in worcking Note here I beseche yow good readers ageinst our aduersaries that would shift of this place with their olde accustomed answer that the breade is called his bodie for that it signifieth and representeth no lesse vnto vs those wordes of Tertullian where he saieth that the bodie and the soule can not be seuered in receauing their rewarde whome one office oâ— ministerie ioineth together If the bodie fede apon bare breade as our aduersaries affirme and not apon Christes blessed bodie and blood as Tertullian saieth howe then caÌ„ theie be saide to concurre in one ministerie where as either of them fedeth diuerâ—lie on diuerse thinges Or will yowe saie M. Iuell that flesh can fede apon signes or figures Trulie whether it can or no I durst referre the resolution hereof to your selfe if being shut vp without meate or drincke two or thre daies in some close roume it might be my chauÌ„ce to come to your speâ—he at the last I thincke yow would beâ—hrowe him that would râ—ake yow such an aâ—gument Yowe haue thought earnestlie apon meate all this while therefore yowe haue eaten your fill And would con him but little more thancke that would painte on the walles of your chambre the signe of a fat capon and bid yow eate and spare not But was Tertullian thincke we of this minde alone No trulie For besides him we haue to confirme the faithe of the churche in this pointe all the auncient writers as manie as by occasion make anie mention of this moste blessed Sacrament Emongest whome I â—hall next alleage S. CipriaÌ„ that holie and blessed martir Who in his worcke De duplici martyrio touching this matter hath these wordes Reliquit nobis edendam carnem suam Reliquit biâ—â—nduÌ„ sanguinem vt per eadem alâ—remur per quae sumus redempti Christ hath left vs his fleshe to eate â–ª and his bloude to drincke to the entent we might be noorished by the same thinges by the which we wer redemed Trulie if we be noorished by the same thinges by the which we haue bene redemed then ar we not noorished we maie be bolde to saie with a signe or figure of his bodie which onelie and nothing elles these newe founde vpstartes would make vs beleue to be in this Sacrament The same holie martyr in an other place hath to the same purpose these wordes The breade which our lorde deliuered to his disciples being changed not in forme or shape but in nature by the omnipotencie of the worde is made fleshe This place of S. Cyprian serueth me to double vse For bothe it manifestle proueth the reall presence and which yowe also denie and call a newe inuention vâ—knowen to thauncient fathers and first harde of in the councell holden at Laâ—er 〈◊〉 vnder Innocentius the thirde the transubstantiation of the breade into Christes naturall fleshe Your coÌ„mon answer that the base creatures of breade and wine be after the consecration changed and transmuted from common breade to be a Sacrament to be a signe a remembraâ—nce a signification of Christes bodie and bloude yea to be in the steade of his bodie it selfe whereas before the consecration it was no such thing can serue yowe no longer For all this induceth no change in the nature or substance of the breade no more then if a cartar to daye should be turned into a kinge to morowe or placed in his seate of maiestie to represent his parson he coulde be saide to be
th'apostles time there was priuate masse in the church although there wer none to receiue with the priest That this learned doctour with other priestes saide Masse when none did communicate for that I am suer yow will denie by this coÌ„plaint of his vttred in these wordes it may moste euidently appeare Frustraâ—â—betur quotidiana oblaâ—io frustra 〈◊〉 ad altare Nemo est qui communicat thâ— daily offering is had in vaine we stand at th'altar in vaine There is none that receiueth with vs. Yf there wer daily oblation yea when none receiued why beare yow vs in hand M. Iuell thâ—t for that long space of six hundred yeares the priest might neuer offer the same without company to coÌ„municate with him Yf that were true how did Chrisostome and the other priestes of Antioche offer yt and that daily that yow may vnderstand a necessitie that enforced them thereto whether the people came or no Yf they receiued not them selues how could he haue said that there was none that did receiue with them But here yow will aske me perhapps how I dare alleage this place which saieth that the oblation was had in vaine because there was none to communicate To this I answere that being first taken for graunted which in no wise you can denie that is that daily this oblatioÌ„ was had whether any came or no that this holy doctour in this place is not to be vnderstand as though simply he ment the oblation to be in vaine but in a respect forasmuch as they came not who wer loked for to haue byn partakers thereof concerning this expectation it was had in vaine and the priestes stode in their churches not at the table but at the altar in vaine Aâ—d that this was the very â–ª meaning of Chrisostomes wordes and not as you falâ—lie surmise there nedeth no other reason to perswade any reasonable man then the learning the vertue and great wisedomâ— of the man him selfe For if the sacrifice had byn offered by him in vaine so often as there was none to be partaker thereof with him what a heynouse act had this bene of him especially staÌ„ding at liberty without any more necessitie to offer theÌ„ the laie man hath to receiue if it were true that yow and your compani affirme Shall we not rather thinck if he had so ment that he would vtterly haue absteined before he would by celebrating and receiuing practise the abuse of so preciouse a iewell Woulde he not rather when he came to the altar haue sent the people awaie with a drie communion when he sawe none redie to receiue Would he not at the least haue bene as circumspect in procuring warning to be giuen to him by them that were disposed to receiue if offering without communicants he should haue offered in vaine as yow and yours our new Rabbins ar about your apishe communion No no Let no man thinck but that he was well ware that to offer the bodie and bloud of Christ in vaine had bin a fault nothing inferior to the receiuing of it vnworthily whereuÌ„to he was not ignoraÌ„t that S. Paule threateneth damnation If he would giue his owne life as he saide him selfe before he would giue our lordes bodie to an vnworthy man and that he would haue his blood shedd out of his bodie rather then he would giue to the vnworthy oure lordes blood we may easely coniecture how hardlie he would haue bin brought to haue offred the same in vaine To this testimony of Chrisostom shall I adde one more and so after come to those obiections which yow bring for the maintenaunce of the contrary Leontius a bishop of the Grieke church writing almost a thousand yeares sence the life of that vertuouse Patriarke of Alexandria Iohn the almoisner or almoise geuer for that name obteined he for his charitie towardes the pooer reporteth emongest other thinges of him how that he being on a certeine time at Masse perceiuing after the reading of the ghospell that the people went out of the churche and fell to talking and babbling in the churcheyarde went also out of the churche after them and spake to them being all amased in this wise Filioli vbi oues illic pastor aut intrate intro ingrediemur aut manete hic ego quo que manebo Ego propter vos descendo in sanctaÌ„ ecclesiam nam poteram facere mihi Missam in Episcopio Children that is to say where the shepe ar there is the shepherde either therefore get yow into the churche and we will goe to gether or bide yow still here and I will tarie with yow It is for your sakes that I come to the holy churche for to my selfe coulde I haue saide Masse in my house at home Here I trust you will at the length yealde and graunte M. Iuell that priuate Masses wer laufull and in vse in the primitiue churche For first that the Masse here spoken of was priuate the worde mihi missam facere say or ceâ—ebrate Masse to my selfe doeth well declare He saide not I might say Masse to my frindes to my kinsfolckes to my household seruauntes but mihi to mine owne selfe And when you heare him sâ—ie that he might doe it I trust yow thincke it was not vnlaufull But now I come to your obiections ageinst the priestes sole or alone receauing of the sacrament After yow haue taken your pleasure in triumphing ouer oure pouertie as yow thinck yow bring furth your store And because yow will make the matter sure and out of all doubte yow vse our owne friend as a witnesse against vs the Masse booke forsothe where yow saie the priest according to the direction of that booke turning him self to the people saith Dominus vobiscum item Oremus Orate pro me fratres sorores what then M. Iuell Ergo what so euer praiâ—rs be vsed about the ministracioÌ„ of the sacrament ought to be the coÌ„mon requestes of all the people What inferre yow hereapon Ergo the priest maie not saie Masse without he haue some to communicate with him That ergo is false M. Iuell and not trulie deduced out of the premisses But I crie yow mercy this is yow saie but by the waie before yow entre into the matter Here yow did but dribb and flurt your other arrowes taken oute of the same quiuer Accipite edite Habete vinculum charitatis vt apti sitis sacrosanctis misteriâ—s that is take eate haue ye the band of charitie that ye maie be mete for the holie misteries And last of all other those wordes that ar spoken by the priest after the Agnus dei Haec sacrosancta commixtio c. This holie commixtion and consecration of the bodie and blood of our lorde Iesus Christ be vnto yow and to all that receiue it health of bodie and soule these ar they that paye home and cleaue as a man would saie the verie face of the white I shall now rehearse first your wordes as in
your sermon printed they ar to be sene that all men maie vnderstand how handsomely my L. of Salesburie can plaie hiâ—k scornersparte and then after shape thereto such an answere as I trust shall to all reasonable men be sufficient Moreouer the priest by the masse booke is taught to saie accipite edite Take ye eate ye and habete vinculum charitatis c. that is Haue ye the band of charitie that ye maie be mete for the hoâ—e misteries And to vvhome shall vve thinke the priest speaketh these vvordes It vver a vaine thing for him in the open congregation to speake to him selfe and specially in the plurall numbre yet vver it a greate deale more vaine for him to speake the same vvordes to the bread and vvine and to saie to them Take ye eate ye or haue ye the band of charitie that ye may be meâ—e for the holie misteries Therefore it is euident that these vvordes should be spoken to the people I haue good hope M. Iuell bothe by these testimonies alleaged out of the Masse booke so far from the purpose and also by your chalenge wherein yowe promise being ouercome to yelde that yowe will at the length doe as honest soldiours pressed against their mindes to serue in an euell cause ar wont to doe that is when it commeth to the push either cast awaie their weapons and suffer them selues to be taken or keping them in their handes fight verie weaklie For suerlie M. Iuell if this be not your meaning beare with me if I tell yow as the truthe is and as I beleue it must nedes be a greate deale worse and such as declareth inuinciblie to the worlde your cankred stomack and maliciouse minde towardes your mother the catholike church For standing the case so as yow meane nothing lesse then that good which I conceiue of yow what true dealing is this of youres to proue that no Masse maie be saide without there be company to receiue with the priest to alleage these wordes Take eate as spoken by the priest to the people Whereas your owne conscience if yow haue any telleth yow I dare saie that they ar a parte of other wordes going before cutt by you from the rest to serue your scoffing spirit and that they ar not nor euer were any more taken for the priestes owne wordes then ar those that immediatlie followe This is my bodie And as yow would I nothing doute laughe at his simplicitie that hearing the priest say This is my bodie would take the consecrated host to be the priestes bodie because he repeteth the same wordes at the altar that Christ spake at his supper So perswade your self that other men cease not to lament from the bottom of their hartes to se yow not of simplicitie but of malice willfullie to do the like But I shall here whollie alleage the wordes as they ar in the canon of the Masse that yowe maie if it be possible be deliuered of that greate scruple that so troubleth your minde whether those wordes Take eate should be spoken by the priest to him self in false latin which yow thinck were to greate an ouersighte or to the bread and wine which yow thinke and I would yow neuer might thinck worse were a farre greater The wordes ar these Qui pridie quâm pateretuâ— c. who the daie before that he suffred toke bread in to his holie and venerable handes and lifting vp his eyes into heauen to the o god his father allmightie geuing to the thanckes blessed brake and gaue it to his disciples saieng Take eate this is my bodie By these wordes if yow doe not euery man I trust elles doth moste manifestlie perceiue that these ar not the priestes wordes and therefore neither spokeÌ„ to him self neither yet to the bread or wine But because I doubte not but yow ar werie to heare so much of your owne follie therefore I will dwell no longer in the aggrauating of that which as in the eyes of all men is brimme ynough so would I to god that yow had neuer geuen occasion to me or to anie other once to haue mencioned it To your other obiection that yow make of these wordes habete vinculum charitatis haue yow the band of peace that yowe maie be mete for the holie mysteries I answere that if there be any such place in the masse booke as hauing sought therefore I finde none such that such wordes first forbidde not the priest to saie masse if none be disposed to communicate with him then that they do not necessarilie prouoke the people to the sacramentall receiuing but maie well be vnderstand of the spirituall communicating with the priest in those holie misteries by earnest meditacion of Christes death and passion the which the more effectually to doe they ar exhorted to be one with an other in loue and charitie And thus vnderstand we that other place where the priest after the Agnus praieth that that holie commixtion of Christes bodie and bloude maie be bothe to him and to all that receiue it healthe of bodie and soule For we saie that as many as being present at the masse doe hartely ioine with the priest in the swete remeÌ„brance of Christes bitter death and passion doe all receiue with the priest Christes bodie and bloud they spirituallie and he corporallie And this call we a true communion But what if now in euery leafe of the masse booke M. Iuell you had fouÌ„de exhortacions to the people to coÌ„municate Verely except yow had founde withall that vnlesse they would the priest should not all would not helpe yea it would hinder yow thus much that where as you and your mates haue borne the worlde in hand that the cleargie hath kepte the laitie from communicating now it woulde appeare by this that the priest loketh for them and their owne defaulte kepeth them awaie Well if the masse booke haue failed yow M. Iuell as it was neuer other like but that it would yow haue yet I dare saie other witnesses Yea verely yow vauÌ„te to haue the helpe of the canons of the apostles of Clemens of Dionisius of Calixtus of Iustinus of Leo of Chrisostome of S. Gregorie yea of S. Paule and of Christ him selfe Which be suerly good witnesses and such as in lawe maie be called omni exceptionâ— maiores and for the better abeling of theÌ„ of whose credite might most be doubted your selfe haue saide so much as no man I trow can saie more For you call theÌ„ good growndes to builde apon So that now there remaineth no more but to consider how they proue your entent The which that I maie the better doe I shall alleage your owne wordes as they ar in your sermon touching this matter to be founde that so the reader maie be the more able to iudge whether your euidence be to the yssue or no. In the .xxxv. leafe of your saide sermon yow haue these wordes And I trust yovv shall clearlie see that for
omitted so much as one worde ▪ let vs nowe I beseche yow as yow tendre the common quiet of the churche as yow regarde the health of youre owne soule doe the like Youre owne selues confesse within the terme of yeares by me mencioned of the beginning and continuance of youre religion youre Apologie alleaging 40. yeares for all the vniuersall worlde M. Haddō to Hieronimus Osorius standing more stoutely then wisely apon the quiet possessiō of thirty yeares six excepted in which the course thereof was interrupted within oure realme of England So that yow can not say that I haue here imagined a case impossible but by youre owne selues confessed and by manie a man aliue if yow would denie it easy to be proued To conclude if all that hath byn allready saied satisfie yow not let yet Tertullian persuade yow in this poinct whose wordes touching this matter written ageinst the heretikes of his time folow in english after this sorte Well let it be graunted that all haue erred Hath the holie ghost yet all this while regarded no churche to leade it into the truthe being sent for that purpose by Christ being therefore expressely demaunded of his father to be the teacher of all truthe Let it be so that goddes bailif and Christes vicair haue suffered the churches to vnderstand otherwise then he taught by his apostles Is it yeat likely that so many and famouse churches should erre in one faithe And a littell after he addeth thiese wordes The truthe belike looked for some Marcionites and Valentiniās the heretikes against whome he wrote to deliuer it in the meane season till whose comming the ghospel was not rightely preached so many thousand thousands baptized amisse so many worckes of faithe euell ministred so many vertuouse cures and giftes wrongfully wrought so many priesthodes and ministrations naughtely executed so manie martirdome to make an ende suffred in vaine Thus far Tertullian To whome it seemed a thing absurd and vnlikely that the holie ghost should faile the churche in the reuealing and opening to the same of any wholesom and necessary truthe that gods bailiff and Christes vicair should suffer so many churches to fall in to an erroniouse and wrong belief that so many agreing all in one faithe should erre that no chaunce should at one time or an other haue varied the ordre had it byn nought of that doctrine which so many churches taught This wrote he when Christes churche was yet in herba when it had continued little aboue two hundred yeares What would he haue saied were he now aliue in oure time to heare that all the churches in the wide worlde the same where the apostles them selues gouerned from whence as from a spring all scripture all true religion next after god flowed in to the reast of Christendome should be noted agreing all in one faithe to haue perniciously erred not one hundred yeares or two but by the continuall space of fiftene hundred Or if that cōfession fell from yow in youre Apologie vnwares as in a booke set furth with such publike consent first commendid to the world next as the common and certeine pledge of youre religiō and last of all vaunted to be placed openly in the eyes of all the world and such as no one of youre aduersaries wer able to refell it is not easi to be presumed yeat for the terme of nine hundred yeares at the least For for so long continuance the moste parte of yow graunt that we ar able to bring proufes and witnesses of oure religion and therefore yow chalenge all the writers that haue written within that compasse Would he not now haue cried out and haue asked where was become the holie ghost apppointed by Christ demaunded of the father to leade the churche in to all truthe Whether it were likely that so many and notable churches agreing all in one faithe should erre would he not thincke we take vp oure newe doctours yow and youre cōpanions telling yow that the truthe laie euer bounde and could neuer be losed till frier Luther and his brother Zuinglius cam and set it at libertie and that in the meane season the ghospel was neuer preached aright baptesme euel ministred with such like functions in the churche But leauing Tertullian and comming nearer to oure owne time will not thinck yow Hieronimus Osorius laughe in his sleeue whē of thirteene hundred yeares for so long is it and more sence we Englishe men first receiued the faithe at the handes of pope Eleutherius M. Haddon his aduersary after so much turning and tossing troubling and vexing of Cicero his maister and chiefest author of his diuinitie could at the length with much ado finde but .24 yeares that our countrie had continued in the doctrine of the gospell Is he not like thinke yow to serue him again with this tennis ball Hoc est tuū Gualtere nescio stupidius an improbius ad Hieronimi epist. respōsum And will not some other trowe you cut him shorte of this accounte eleuen yeares and bid him for .30 lacking six to write .30 lacking .17 Except he will flie to this to iustifie his reaconing that as soone as the pope was once banished although Masse Mattins and all other seruice cōtinued till the deathe of king Henry that yeat was all as it shoulde be and according to the doctrine of their gospell How euer it be fower and twenty or .13 yeares hath not the Quene our gratiouse lady trow yow and the whole realme good cause to decree and appoint a perpetuall salary out of the common coffers to such a patrone But because Osorius is well knowen to be man good ynough for M. Haddon and therefore bothe cā and will if he thincke it needefull to reply apon so fond an answere defend him selfe I will leauing to write any more thereof as perteining not principally but incidently to my purpose conclude here this first cause with my earnest request to yow once again that yow considre it diligently and seriously not lightely or scornefully THE second cause that hath weighed much with me and maie also iustly doe the like with yowe is the same that S. Austen disputing with the Maniches affirmed to haue kept him in the lappe of the catholike churche that is the auctoritie of the same churche by which we ar taught to giue credite vnto the ghospell For as he reasoned thus ageinst Manichaeus Quibus ergo obtemperaui dicentibus c. Those therefore whome I beleuid bidding me beleue the ghospell why shoulde I not giue credite to the same men warning me not to beleue Manichaeus so maie yow or I saie to all such factiouse men as labour to bring vs from the obedience of the catholike churche of Rome to their parte The churche of Rome the mother and chief of all other taught vs Englishe men first to beleue the gospell and other knowledge the reof then which we had from that church we haue none Why should we