Such places shall prove Tiâ—… thy and Titus to be Prelats I answer 1. Mr. H. and our Brethrens way shall be straited with this groundless Argument as well as we 2. We say these Epistles in point of governing as trying of Pastors 1 Tim. 3. 1 2 3. of Deacons ver 10. of Elders 1 Tim. 1. 17. ordaining or laying on of hands ver 22. receiving of accusation by witnesses 19 20. the ordaining of Elders thus and thus qualified Tit. 1. 5 6 7 8. 2 Tim. 2. 2. preaching the Gospel in season and out of season 2 Tim 4. 1 2. with gentleness 1 Tim. 5. 15. ruling in the house of God 1 Tim. 3. 16. charging of men to preach sound doctrine 1 Tim. 1. 3. dividing the word aright 2 Tim. 2. 14 15. These Epistles I say are written to Timothy and to Titus not as little Monarchs with preeminence above other Elders but to them as representing all faithful Officers in the Colledge of that Presbytery 1 Tim. 4. 14. who are to keep that command unviolable to the second appearing of Christ 1 Tim 6. 13. and they are not written to Elders as having dominion over the faith of the people 2. If these Epistles were written to Timothy and Titus not as representing Officers but as the Church representing the people yet wanting Officers and so in a Church-capacity then it should be Pauls minde that the people in that case destitute of Elders should preach the word in season and out of season as Timothy 2 Tim. 4. 1 2. and that the people in that capacity should as the approved workmen of God divide the word of truth rightly 2 Tim. 2. 15. as well as they ordain Elders and make and unmake Officers by the places 1 Tim. 5. 22 2 Tim. 2. 2. Tit. 1. 5. yea and the Apostle should not have ordained Titus to appoint Elders in every city for he should have appointed the Cities and Churches of onely believers to ordain their own Elders Yea 3. the Church void of Elders by our Brethrens way are the onely society and visible Church on earth who make and unmake call and excommunicate Officers and Officers have no hand in it but accidentally for Elders are made and if heretical rejected saith Mr. H. by the people having no Elders at all Ergo these Epistles must be written to the believers of Ephesus and Crete that yet want Officers that they may be instructed how to behave themâ—elves in the house of God how to lay on hands how to receive accusations and how to prove and try officers Yea Paul should not have written Rules to Timothy and Titus the publick Officers who by their office ought to have no hand in calling or rejecting of Officers by this way Lastly saith Mr. H. All these are granted by Mr. R. Whereas in many pages I dispute against this new visible Church and grant no such thing but suppose all the Officers should turn heretical in this in that case the people in tutelâ inculpata salutis when they turn Wolves may withdraw But I say not they can authoritatively excommunicate and make and unmake Officers and the Officers when the people turn Familists may withdraw and remove the Tabernacle Mr. H. God hath set officers in the Church 1 Cor. 12. 28. Therefore the Church is before officers The setting of the candle in the candlestick presupposeth the candlestick the Church is the candlestick Revel 1. 20. the officers are the candles Mr. R. answered It was not good Logick Ans. I yet maintain this to be naughty Logick and a naughty Grammatication and if this be the best Argument for this new conceit it cannot stand God saith Moses Gen. 2. 7. formed man of the dust and God breathed in his that is in the nostrils of the man the breath of life Ergo He is a living man before the soul be breathed in him It s naughty Logick like this Mr. H. God made man of earth i. e. the body of man of the earth and he breathed into the nostrils of that body so made by that mean the breath of life to affirm the body was made before the soul was infused and that the body which is the subject to receive the soul must be in nature before the soul is very good Logick Ans. The Logick is yet naughty for Moses saith God breathed in man a living soul therefore Adam is a living man before his soul be infused By this Logick Mr. H. will but change my consequence parallel and large as good as his And have it thus God breathed in mans body as the matter a living soul as the form Ergo the body is in nature before the soul. I shall not deny that consequence but 1. The antecedent is not the Grammatical phrase and the figurative speech of Moses as my antecedent is God breathed a living soul in the nostrils of man Ergo he was man before God breathed in him a living soul. So I desire Mr. H. to answer the like quirk of Grammar Zech. 12. 1. God createth the spirit in the midst of man Ergo he was a man before God created a spirit in the midst of him So Isa. 42. 5. God gives breath and spirit to the people and to those that walk on the earth By this Argument Therefore the people are a living people moving and walking upon the earth before God gave them breath and spirit What more absurd So Mr. H. God hath set officers in the Church Therefore the Church is before the officers So God hath set the members pastor and people eye ear hands and feet c. every one of them in the body as pleaseth him 1 Cor. 12. 18. this is as much as God hath placed single believers also for believers are not members visible without Gods setting not yet clothed with adjuncts as they call them of officers in the Church ver 18. or in the body visible Therefore by the consequence and grammatication every way alike The body or Church visible of combined believers shall be before the body or Church visible of combined believers But the Conclusion is absurd What then hath Mr. H. gained by this Argument Of necessity then when the Apostle saith God hath placed in the Church Apostles Prophets The word Church must be the visible Catholick organick Church which is made organick by such organs as Apostles Prophets so seated Like this God hath created a soul in man and yet he is a man by the soul that is created in him and is not a man before it be created in him Mr. H. Beside there 's advantage to the cause that not onely the subject in which these officers are is totum essentiale but by vertue of her choise which is causal of the officers they are there saith Mr. H. and therefore in reason must be before them Ans. It s a great disadvantage and an untruth to call the Elders and Rulers of a politick ruling visible Church which is
relation of Watchmen to a Classical Church which a Pastor doth to a particular flock for where there is the same office of a Pastor there is the same relation of Watchman and Pastor the one issuing from the other But the first is said by Mr. R. Lib 2. 335. also they put forth authoritative acts which issue onely from proper Pastors they are proper Pastors to those upon whom they can exercise such acts else they had no warrant to put them forth Answ. I yet in this sense deny the assumption that they are proper Pastors that is actual imployers of their labours of feeding both by fixed teaching and governing to all the flocks of the classical Church for that is unpossible except they could be in many Congregations at once so feeding But I deny not but constantly teach that the Presbyterian Pastors are properly that is formally essentially habitu actu primo Pastors in relation to all the flocks not of the classical Church only but of all the visible Churches on earth As a Physician by covenant actually imployed to attend all the sick of such a City suppose Norwich is their proper Physician yet so as he is essentially a Physician to all in England who shall by providence employ him An exquisite Gardener by paction is a proper Gardener to such a man who conduces or hires him a certain time to labour such a plot of ground yet so as essentially and actu primo he is a Gardener to all the Country round about who shall employ him So is one a proper School-master to teach Grammar and Rhetorick to the children of such a City yet so as he is a School-master to all the children of the country who shall employ him Christ sends his Pastor Archippus intentionally to feed all his flocks in all fields and he is essentially a Pastor to them all but for the more convenient attaining of Christs end he fixes him by the choice of the people to the Church of Coloss not as a Husband to a Wife 2. Mr. H. With his little finger aims not to twitch the probation of this 1. Where there is the same office of Pastor there is the same relation of Watchman and Pastor It is false a Physician a Pastor providentially fixed to cure and feed this City by special covenant hath a more near relation to cure and feed this City having a twofold relation both by the calling in general of a Physician and Pastor and by a special solemn oath and hand-writ to this City and both the Physician is the same publick Physician and the Pastor the same publick Watchman officio by office essentially habitu actu primo to all the sick bodies and sick souls in the country A mother is the same mother to ten children but hath a special relation to the eldest as her heir 2. As born with more pain and labour then all the other nine 3. As more dearly loving him then all the other nine Here is the same place the same officer but sundry particular relations 3. Mr. H. leaves that unproved the Presbyterian Pastors cannot put forth authoritative acts Pastoral but hoc ipso they must be proper i. e. their fixed Pastors and made theirs by the particular choice of the people to feed and govern these toward whoâ— they put forth these pastoral acts because indeed it is adultery to them who are no husbands to put forth pastoral acts of governing upon those to whom they are not fixed Pastors yeâ— they tender the Supper to forraign members and so this is a rotten pillar of this way 2. Forsaken by Mr. Cotton and the way of the Churches of N. E. and by Mr. H. himself 3. It destroys Synods and all communion of Churches for Mr. Cotton yeildeth as truth of the Gospel taught by a Minister of the Gospel bindeth to faith and obedience not only because it is Gospel but because also it is taught by a Minister for his calling sake seeing Christ hath said whoso receiveth you receiveth me they bind not only materially but formally for the Synods sake I see not how this can be answered though indeed the Discipline of N. E. and Mr. H. say the contrary both of this and their own grounds for Elders in Synods put forth authoritative and pastoral acts to these Churches of which these Elders are not proper and fixed Pastors but Pastors they are to these Churches as to all the Churches of the combination else they cannot warrantably put forth acts pastoral for their feeding and governing to edification except it be said a Synod is no ordinance of Christ which all the Brethren and Mr. H. himself deny All acknowledge a Synod to be an ordinance of Christ. But the truth is they but mock the Reader in so saying for they give no more to it but an act of charity to counsel as one brother counsels another Intuitu charitatis saith the Discipline of New England And so Mr. H. For what 1. availes it more to say a Synod is an Ordinance of God because they can give a charitative counsel then to say one single Believer is an Ordinance of God or a Woman who can counsel a man The Synod then is no positive Ordinance of divine institution for upon the same ground if a Synod be an Ordinance of God because they may counsel the Churches we may appoint a new Ordinance of a Synod For first one refuting Another for rebuking A third for confirming And a fourth for comforting 2. It is but a mocking of the world to say the association of Churches is an ordinance of God for they can give counsel to the Churches of the bounds what may be replied had I time is soon washed away But first so can twenty other Churches without the bounds of these Churches so can many eminent Christians in another Congregation not in office give a counsel by way of charity to a Synod convened synodically shal they for that be a Synod of a Synod and shall they be an Ordinance of Christ distinct from a Congregational Church for that Yea Abigail a woman a captive maid gave the one a divine counsel to David and the other to Naaman the Syrian Shall women therefore be made new ordinances of God and if neither the one counsel nor the other have any weight from the givers of the counsel but only from the word it is in vain to name the one an ordinance of God more then the other as for reverence to the persons a Synod of Elders more then one single mans counsel adds not the eighth part of a feather as touching authoritative weight to the Counsel if the Synods counsel amount to nothing more in point of a divine ordinance then Mr. H. saith any Counsel may lay a burthen upon any mans conscience so any Christian that shall publish and preach that 1 Cor. 6. 18. flee fornication may lay a burthen upon every soul not from the authority of him that speaks but
essentials to Officers 2. The method and order of Ordination and Election 3. The place 1 Tim. 4. 14. touching the laying on of hands of the Presbytery is opened 4. The necessity of laying on of hands 5. Designation to a certain flock is not essential to a Pastor MR. H. Ordination according to the minde of Mr. R. and his method as preceding the Election of the people doth not give the essentials to the outward call of a Minister Ans. Ordo causandi non tollit ipsam câ—â—salitatem If Plate say the soul was created before the body this will not prove but body and soul are essential causes of man So because Ordination administred Mr. R. his way and method gives not the essentials to a Minister this by no Logick can cashier Ordination from an essential cause thereof Mr. H. Luke saith Acts 6. first they chose Steven ver 5. then the Apostles laid on hands ver 6. if not any but those who are elected by the people should be ordained and all such who were so chosen could not be refused then to ordain before choice is neither to make application of the Rule or a communicating of the Right in an orderly manner But the first is plain the Apostles would not take that soveraignty in ordaining Elders therefore they would not allow their Scholars to arrogate to call so Acts 14. 23. When they had created them Elders in every Church the Geneva When they had ordained Elders by election of the people and prayed and fasted they commended them to God c. then the officers had a full call and a full night to the execution of their office before laying on of hands which is not necessary and must not the setting in order things amiss be done by Titus i. e. the Officers and the Church also Tit. 1. 5. Ans. 1. Luke saith not they were elect called officers with a full call and full right before the Apostles laid on hands for Mr. R. saith they were chosen that is nominated as godly men before the Apostles laid on hands as David and Saul were both chosen set apart by God before unction and choice of the people but they were not formally chosen Kings having full royalty while as yet the people knew them not from other men but the seven men were not formally and completely chosen as officers before ordination and so had neither right nor official full right to be their Deacons while the Apostles ordained them for this Rite say Beza Bullinger Calvin Gualther Diodati English Divines used in Sacrifices was used in creating of officers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ver 3. to choose is a far lower word as Cyprian saith it noteth Plâ—bis approbationem Leo con sensum plebis Calvin the approbation of the people What then is the Apostles and officers part Authority official there must be laying on of hands saith Mr. H. was not of necessity required yea but its safer to believe the holy Ghost it was done then it was no unnecessary complement the cup was given to the people by the Apostles 1 Cor. 11. True say Papists as Mr. H. it was not of necessity required 2. Though there be a wide difference in the matter if none should be ordained but those onely that are first chosen as formally and completely as their fixed 〈◊〉 then election goes before ordination Mr. R. denies the connexion and desires Mr. H. to prove it yea the contrary followâ— Ergo the people cannot appropriate the man to be their fixed officer nor consent he be theirs only and this to me is only formal election until he first be ordained an officer The sick man cannot choose A. B. to be his Physician until he first be a Physician nor can a Scholar choose C. D. to be his Teacher of Philosophy until C. D. he first a Philosopher 3. The Assumption is false But all such who are so chosen could not be refused then must the Elders be necessitated to lay hands on Nicolaus though they know him to be the head of that unclean Sect of which Epiphâ—nius Irâ—…s Dâ—rothâ—â—s Tâ—rtullian judge him to be leader Why the people have chosen him then the Elders must lay on hands suddenly on an heretical Teacher a Wolf Why they cannot refuse him saith Mr. H. for The people hath chosen him What tyranny of conscience is here 4. This calling of the Deacons and consequently of all other officers if we suppose that the office was instituted as now it was by Mr. H. his way might well have been without either presence or acting of either Apostles or officers for saith Mr. H. there was no necessity of laying on of hands by the onely multitude and I require one Scripture for the calling of one officer without the concurrent acting of Apostles and officers by the sole people and can shew warrants for the presence and acting of Apostles and officers in the calling of officers especially those Acts 1. 15 23. 6. 6. 14. 23. Tit. 1. 5 6 7 c. 1 Tim. 4. 14. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 2. 1 2 3 10. Revel 2. 2. ver 20. Acts 20. 28 29 30. 13. 1 2 3 4. 5. Be it as the Geneva reading saith as it is not yet as Mr. Seaman well observes and Calvin saith it also with Beza the officers had their official votes and are said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Stephanus Mr. Leigh Theodor. Balsamo Zonaras and Bellarmine grants it and it proves that the onely people created not officers Ergo by neither this place nor by any other Scripture could they give them full right to their office See Amesius and Calvin Hence if the officers by these places have suffrages and votes in ordaining of officers as why should the holy Ghost bid prophets separate Paul and Barnabas for such a ministry and command Timothy to lay hands suddenly on no man 1 Tim. 5. 22. but on faithful men that are able to teach others 2 Tim. 2. 2. Tit. 1. 5 7 8. if officers have no official work in creating officers but only to choose them which any brother or woman may do then it is not needless that officers concur to create officers and if it be not required of necessity that they concur it must be idle work both here and in the cited places that they concur but because they did concur I have as good reason that the peoples concurring in choosing was needless though they did choose as Mr. H. hath cause to say the officers concurrence is needless in ordaining though in truth the Word of God require both as necessary Lastly For the setting in order things since these must be things of jurisdiction also we say juridical acts by no Scripture are ascribed to the whole Church except by the Church be understood the Church of Rulers the rest only consenting which is our mind Mr. H. Arg. 2. That place 1 Tim. 4. 14. favours not Mr. R. for