Originals and binde to a corrupt translation as Authonâ—â—cal You suffer not the Scriptures to be vulgarly translated and read Thus you haue the Scriptures as in a prison but as you should haue them to make them common to all men by reading preaching and teaching you haue them not The interpretation of Scriptures you haue such as may stand with your Popish practise which is the priuie rule of your interpretation and such as it pleaseth the Pope to prescribe you But true interpretation of Scripture according to the plainer principles thereof and the rule of faith which Augustine so much commendeth you neither haue nor wil hade nor suffer others to haue if you may let it and so your interpretation is priuate as either being the Popes or proceeding from your owne faction addicted to your receiued practise but ours is the interpretation of the Spirit of God testified by himselfe in the Scriptures inspiried by him as by the Scriptures and the rule of faith we prooue and therefore blasphemously by you called priuate Seeing therefore the visibility of your Church is in those things which may be seen partly among the heathen partly in a false Church which the longer it continueth the worse You haue but some shew of the Fathers on your side when indeede they are against you and so haue not the antiquity of truth but of error you neither haue the Scriptures as you should haue them for your selues and others nor their true sense and interpretation but onely of your owne making your Popish faith though it be olde in it selfe yet in respect of the daies of our Fathers our Sauiour Christ the Apostles and Prophets the daies thereof haue been but few and euill and therefore it is not the olde Catholike Apostolike faith whatsoeuer this false and forcelesse Reasoner hath sayed PAPIST A short Addition Beleeue assuredly and holde for certaine that no Heretike and Schismatike that vniteth not himselfe to the Catholike Church againe how great almes so-euer hee giue yea or shed his bloud for Christes name can possibly be saued For manie heretikes by the cloake of Christes cause deceiuing the simple suffer much but where no true faith is there is no iustice because the iust liueth by faith so it is also of Schismatikes because where charitie is not no iustice can be there which of they had they would neuer plucke in peeces the bodie of Christ which is the Church A Sentence of S. Austin worthie to be noted of such as thinke that men which liue vertuouslie may goe to heauen though they beleeue not the Catholike faith nor be members of his true Church For as most certaine it is that none which beleeue not all the articles of the Catholike faith can be saued though to the eies of the world be liue or die neuer so well for without faith it is as Paul saith vnpossible to please God And S. Athanasius telleth vs that whosoeuer will be saued before all things it is necessarie that he holde the Catholike faith which faith without euerie one shall keepe whole and inviolate without doubt he shall perish for euer so no lesse certaine it is that although we beleeue neuer so well yet if we liue not according to that faith and so abstaine from communicating with heretiques in their seruice and Sacraments we cannot be saued For hee that shall denie Christ before men Christ also will denie him before his Father in heauen as himselfe saith And if we may without sinne temporize and frame our conscience according to the law when shall we take vp our Crosse and follow Crist as himselfe willeth vs And vvhat meant the blessed Apostles and so manie 1000. of Martyrs to shed their bloud for Christ of an inward and secret faith might haue brought them to heauen and they might outwardlie haue yeelded to Princes lawes and keepe their conscience to themselues This doctrine Christes seruants know not it is deuised only for the colde comfort of such as loue this vvorld too much and feare persecution But let such thinke of this saying of our Sauiour Feare ye not them that kill the body and are not able to kill the soule but rather feare him that can destroy both body soule into hel and let them imitate noble Eleazarus Mart. 2. 28. who rather made choise of cruell death then to dissemble in the cause of religion and do that with the scandal of others which of it selfe was no sinne at all PROTESTANT Augustines Sentence De fide and Pet. Diac. cap. 39. is oneâ—â— thus much Formissimè tene nullatenus dubites quemlibet hareticum siue schismaticum in nomine patris filij spiritus sancti baptizatum si ecclesiae Catholicae non fuerit aggregatus quantascunque eleemosinas fecerit si pro Christi nomine sanguinem fuderit nullatenus posse saluari that is Firmly beleeue by no meanes doubt that euery heretike or schismatike being baptized in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost how great almes soeuer he do yea though hee shed his bloud for Christs name yet if he be not gathered to the Catholike Church by no meanes can be saued This sentence though not word for word yet in effect you rehearse but you ad therunto more words whereof Augustine in that place hath neuer a one yet in the end conclude a sentence of S Austen as if all that goeth before were his sentence in that chapter It seemeth therefore that you read not Augustines words your selfe but borrowed them some where without discerning where Augustines words ended The rest is a truth but not true that Augustine there hath such a sentence what would you now inferre out of this sentence of Augustine First that men though they liue neuer so vertuously yet if they beleeue not the Catholike faith nor bee members of his true Church cannot be saued Secondly that if men beleeue neuer so well yet if they liue not according to the faith and so absteine from communicating with heretiks in their seruice and sacraments they cannot be saued and so proceede on to condemne those that outwardly haue yeelded to Princes Lawes and keepe their consciences to themselues All which may with no gaine to you be yeelded it the chiefe termes be well vnderstood to witte Catholike Church Catholike Faith and Heretikes or Schismatikes For if the Popish Church be not the Catholike Church nor the Popish Faith the Catholike Faith nor they Heretikes or Schismatikes that stand in opposition to Poperie or do depart from Popish communion then what gaine you by this whole addition But it is a world to see into what a maze you haue ledde the poore sheep of your flocke that no sooner they heare Catholike Church or Catholike Faith but by and by they thinke of Popish Church and Popish Faith betweene which there is no lesse difference then betweene light and darknes And againe when they heare of Herâ—tikes they presently
as touching his retorne from hell neither in this place do they so interpret Dauids words nor in any other place rightly vnderstood make any mention of it If the place then be to be vnderstood of the resurrection and that in both causes Thou wilt not leaue my soule in graue nor suffer thine holy one to see corruptioÌ„ As Peter Act. 2. 31. expresly saieth the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must needes be vnderstood of the place from whence he was raised which was the graue Neither make it any thing against this sense that his soule was not in the graue For first the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 heere carieth the same sense that Nepheth doth in the Psalme It is so cleere that that word must be taken for a dead body oftentimes as Beza hath obserued that as Doctor Fulke against Martine hath obserued of fiue places by Beza alleaged Leuit. 19. 28. 21. 1. 11. Num. 5. 2. 9. 10. where the word Nepheth must needes haue that sense your owne vulgar hath so translated it in all these places but the last and therefore this place being spoken of the resurrection it may likewise be so vnderstood heere besides doth not the scripture speaking of Dauid say His sepulchre remaineth with vs vnto this day Is not Dauids soule a part of Dauid yet was not Dauids soule in his sepulchre nor died nor was buried see you not then that the word Soule before is put for the manhood as in the article of our faith wee say Christ died and was buried not that the whole manhood was buried but the one part which is yet denoÌ„inated of the whole And while the body lyeth and corrupteth in the graue the soule in that behalfe suffereth a priuation although it be not shut vp with the body in the graue and thus Dauids soule was and is left in the graue in regard of the body which there remaineth in corruption Christes soule in like sense was there while the body lay in the graue but was not left in the graue because the body remained not there to see corruption And indeed whosoeuer doth rightly and religiously obserue the opposition betweene Christ and Dauid in these words shall soone perceiue what is heere meant both by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For of Christ the Psalmist saith Thou shalt not leaue my soule in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Of Dauid Peter saith He died and is buried his Sepulchre remaineth with vnto this day But his soule remaineth neither in hell nor properly in the graue in these things therefore there is no opposition But this place must be so vnderstood that there may be opposition That which is of Dauids part is plaine he is to this day left buried and in his graue that which is of Christ must be contrarie that his body was not left in the graue vnlesse the sense of this place and these words be so taken the Apostle doth not sufficiently prooue that Dauid spake of the resurrection of Christ Hee rather spake in your vnderstanding of the deliuerie of Christes soule out of hell which might haue beene if it had pleased him in soule to descend thither albeit his body had still remained and seene corruption in the graue Thus to maintaine your erroneous fansies you sticke not to ouerthrow a speciall argument which the holy Ghost vseth against the Iewes to prooue the resurrection of Christ out of that Psalme Thirdly because you say it is a malitious corruption against the descending of Christ into hell what if it were translated thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell would it prooue that Christes soule was in hell nothing lesse Augustine vpon that place of the Psalme Quoniam non derelinques animam meam in inferno maketh this glosse Because thou wilt neither giue my soule to be possessed of hell and vpon the next words Neque dabis Sanctum tuum videre corruptionem neque sanctificarum corpus per quod alij sanctificandi sunt corrumpi patieris Thou wilt not saith Augustine deliuer my soule to be possessed of hell nor suffer my sanctified body by which others also must be saÌ„ctified to be corrupted Not to be left in hell and not to be deliuered vnto hell with him is all one It is true therefore that God left not his soule in hell because he neuer deliuered his soule to hell and so he neuer came there in soule The same Father writing vpon the 85. Psalme vpon those words Eruisti animam meam ex inferno inferiori conferreth them with the words of this Psalme now in question Quoniam noâ— derâ—liquisti animam meam in inferno and giueth this interpretation of both Hee saide that God deliuered his soule from the lower hell because he deliuered him from such sinnes by which be might be brought to the torments of the lower hell As saieth hee a man may say to a Phisician who perceiuing that hee was like to fall into some disease prescribed him a diet for his health thou hast deliuered me from a disease not wherein hee was but wherein hee was like to be and to him that defends him when hee is like to be caried to prison or in danger to be hanged thou hast deliuered my soule from the prison or from the gallowes wherein the party neuer was So Christ taking our sinnes vpon him whereunto hell fire was due and conflicting with the wrath of God being supported by his Father that hee should not be deliuered euer into the power of hell confidently reioyceth in God saying I haue set the Lord alwaies before me he is at my right hand therefore I shall not be mooued wherefore my heart is glad my tongue reioyceth my flesh also shall rest in hope For thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell if you will needes so translate neither wilt thou suffer thine holie one to see corruption not meaning that he had beene in hell or was to be in hell but giuing thanks to God who heard his prayer and preserued him from hell as the Apostle saith Heb. 5. 7. Hee was heard in that which he feared So you see it may be translated as you would haue it and yet you get nothing by it Lastly vpon the 85. Psalme aforesaid Augustine maketh two parts of infernum or hell the one vpon earth the other in the graue or region of death whither the dead depart from whence saieth he God would deliuer our soules by sending his sonne thither Because of these two hells saith he the sonne of God was sent to deliuer vs euerie way Ad hoc infernum missus est nascendo ad illud moriendo To the hell on earth hee was sent when he was borne to the hell in the graue or in death when he died to the which hell saith Augustine Christ came that we might noâ— remaine in hell To the like effect he writeth vpon the 88. Psalme If Christ went into no other hell then the faithfull
saith Chrysostome and by the commaundement of Christ But Papists admit no triall of their faith but by themselues they are the Church The Pope is the supreame Pastor he that will not heare this Church and this Pastor is held Anathema as an heathen or Publican What is this else but that which Chrysostome saieth they ruling the Church doe openlie and licentiouslie subuert the Church for they prescribe their owne practise for the rule of faith and take away all indifferent meanes of triall and will be both makers and iudges of faith This is the confession of their faith that they are the Church and you must beleeue it and therefore beleeue that all is true which they say whatsoeuer interpretation of the scriptures they deliuer it is the true sence of the scriptures what heresie by this prescription may not be maintained yea what trial of spirits is left to the Church if any one spirit must be thus beleeued without submission to be tried by the Scriptures Come to their conuersation Are not their fruites vvoâ—nds troubles and manifold mischiefes deposing of Princes inciting of subiects to rebellions procurement of forraine inuasions impoysonings and murthers of Princes and all that stand in their light threatnings of stabbings and cutting of throats finally vnderminings of Parliaments and conueâ—ances of powder to blowe vp King Queene Prince Nobles Bishops Iudges Commons that without any distinction euen in a moment Can they charge Protestants whoÌ„ they call heretikes with such sauage wooluish ye diuellish hâ—llish and stygian practises They draw vnto them all the sonnes of Belial whom they can intise out of all protestant kingdomes and states to make continuall imployment of them to worke the subuersion of their natiue Countries to infect with butcherly and Scithâ—an crueltie the mindes of subiects by desperate furies to drive men to infamous and vntimely temporall deaths and to eternall damnatioÌ„ not caring what become of their bodies or soules so their turnes be serued Can the religion of Protestants be stained with such barbarous and bestiall crueltie They receiue the Sacrament in way of obligation to commit murders to practise rebellions to subuert kingdomes yea they promise before hand and graunt great pardons to such as they procure to vndertake such villanies They make Martyrs of those who for barbarous treasons rebellions and murthers haue iustly suffered such punishment as they deserued both by the law of God and man Are these the works of sheepe or of woolues By their fruites therefore you shall knowe them they are on euery side full of sharpe and cruell prickles If they speake they equiuocate if they be silent there are seauen abhominations in their hearts as the sequele hath euer prooued if they be angry they are mad nothing will serue but inuasions rebellions poysonings powder treasons and all maner fell and cruell practises If they be patient they waite a time to hurt and in the meane time they are preparing some mischiefe as manifold experience hath prooued and the sunne hath often seene If they do euill they are not ashamed as the desperate obstinacie of the late powder traytors shewed If they do any thing well they doe it for vaine glory to beseene of men and to get a name to themselues Is this the Church whereof euery man must be a member or else he cannot be saued is this the Catholike faith is this to liue according to the faith will any man be so blinded that for loue or zeale to such a Synagogue or for awe or feare of the curse of such cursed workers he will refuse to ioyne with the Protestants in their seruice Sacraments My deare brethren put no trust in any childe of man which by Augustines confession our Sauiour Christ forbiddeth Pin not your saluation vpon his sleeue that may go to hell himselfe I meane the Pope Beware of them that outwardly weare onely sheepes clothing but inwardly are very rauening Woolues as you finde by their fruits Trust not them that will be tried for their truth and honestie by none but themselues suspect their honestie that shut vp the Scriptures from you which our Sauiour Christ coÌ„manded all men to search Finally inquire whether Christ or any Apostle or any holy Councel or Father did euer put poyson sword or powder into mens hands to murther the sacred persons of Kings to ruinate whole Kingdomes and to promote the faith of Christ by poyson sword and fire If you finde any such president hearken to this forcible reasoner and all other Iesuites and Seminaries refuse our Churches our seruice and Sacraments If not disclaime that religion that faith that seruice that Sacrament that serueth to combine such conspiracies that must get vp and prosper by such monstrous and endlesse crueltie God of his mercie open your eyes that the light of the glorious Gospell of Christ Iesus may shine vnto you that you may be able to discerne the mysterie of iniquitie which of long time hath wrought in the Kingdome of Antichrist that you may knowe the synagogue of Satan from the Church of Christ and at length come out from Babylon and escape the wrath present and to come and finally be saued by the only faith of Iesus Christ to whom be glory for euer Amen FINIS
elder then this renewed face of our churches will that proue any aduantage for you Was not the Apostasie of Israel elder then the protestation of Elias against 1. King 18. them much more then the returne of many out of Israel in the dayes of Hezekiah Was not the Pharisaicall synagogue 2. Chron. 30. before the preaching of Christ before the church which he gathered by his preaching Boast not therefore of what standing your Antichristian tyranny is but tell vs if you can of what truth your religion is Truth we graunt you is most ancient but error also is often very ancient and is called by Angustine Vetustissima falsit as most ancient falshood and Epist 166. when the truth after a long time of suppression commeth to the light againe in the eyes of them that iudge by the outward appearance error seemeth elder then the truth Wherfore let vs clime aboue these middle antiquities which may be common both to truth and error and let vs come to the eldest and most ancient times of the Church and there behold the true and vndisguised face of the auncientest and truest Church Let vs search the Scriptures which onely conteine the most infallible description of the true Church If you shun this light say it is because there is no truth in Ioh. 3. 19. 20. 21. you yea because your workes are euill and you feare to come to the light least it should be manifest that you walke in the truth PAPIST Secondlie this is to make your cursed Synagogue of the Iewes that crucified the Some of God and wickedlie cried out His bloud be vpon vs and our children for more glorious then Christs Church for which he shed his bloud and praied so inst antlie to his father for as they now be in manie parts of the world so can they shew where they haue remained preached their religion for all these 1600 yeares and to say that Christs Church is inferior to the Iewish Synagogue is so blasphemous as Christian eares should not endure to heare PROTESANT Did Christ shed his bloud to make his Church glorious and eminent in worldly prosperity like to the strumpet of Rome that sittes vpon many waters and hath rule ouer many Reuel 17. 1. people yea ouer Kings and princes No no his kingdome is not of this world By many tribulations must the Ioh. 18. 36. Act. 14. 22. Rom. 8. 17. Ioh. 16. 33. 2. Tim. 2. 12. Hebr. 12. 8. Church of Christ enter into the kingdome of heauen It must bee comforted to his suffering that it may be comforted to his glory If it suffer with him it shall raigne with him In the worlde it shall haue trouble but in him only peace All that are not pertakers of chastismens are bastards and not sonnes Againe did Christ by his instant prayer to his Father request that his Church might treade on the necks of Emrours ride on a stately sâ—eed and Kings to hold the stirrop and going by on foot to lead the Popes horse by the bridle Or that they might â—â—â—eample patrimonies large seigniories generall command ouer king and key sar yea power of life and death ouer euery creature and to translate kingdomes and to turne the world vpside-downe at their pleasure Where is this prayer contained why had not Christ himselfe nor any of his Apostles the benefite of it why was the primitiue church so washed by horrible persecutions Christ neuer made any such prayer he prayed that his Church might be preserued not altogether from but in Iohn 17. 15 temptations not that the worldly powers might not annoy the bodies of his Saints but that their soules might be kept from euill not that they might haue their heauen in this world but that they might bee with him where he is and see his Vers 24 glory Againe was Christ inferior to the Iewes when they crucified him or Stephen when they stoned him to death or Iames when Herod cut off his head or Peter when he bound him in prison what saith the scripture For thy sake Acts. 7. 12 we are killed all the day long and we are counted as sheepe for the slaughter Neuerthelesse in all these things we are more then Psal 44. 23. Rom. 8. 36. 37 conquerors through him that loued vs. Surely by Romish Logicke and and Romish diuinitie farre more happy and glorious was the condition of Pilat the priestes and accursed Iewes that cried Crucifie him crucifie him then of poore Christ O you that are bewitched and inchanted by these Luk. 23. 21. Baby lonish charmes will you be led by such guides who know not the beginnings of Christian religion If any will be my Disciple let him take vp his crosse and follow me will you Math. 16. 24 thinke that such can guide you to heauen whose God is the world whose glory is shame which minde earthly things With them no outward prosperity no Church no earthly kingdome no Church no scarlet coloured beast Phil. 3. 19. no triple crowned Pope no hatted Cardinals no mirred Bishops no Church But see the singular boldnesse of this popish proctor ioyned with singular folly The cursed Iewes can bring as far fetcht antiquicy to proue their Synagoue to bee the true Church as the Papists can for theirs If such antiquity can make you Papists why may it not as well make you Iewes This forcible Reasoner prescribeth 1600 yeares for the Papacie not a yeare or a day lesse doth hee allowe to the Iewish Synagogue from whence I thus reason That which by Popish confession belongs as well to the cursed Iewes as to the Papists that can neuer proue the Popish Synagogne to be the Catholique and true Church Antiquitie of 1600 yeares belongs as much to the cursed Iewes as to the Papists as this plaine Reasoner confesseth Therefore antiquitie of 1600 yeares can neuer proue the Popish Synagogue to be the catholike and true Church PAPIST That our Church hath continued all this while is as certaine for to omit other Prouinces and Kingdomes where it hath beene openlie knowen and not to speake howe wee can shew the continuall succession of Bisops in diuerse places of Christendom as Rheimes Padua Leigh and from the Apostles times to these our daies we can heere in our country proue the continuance of our religion for these 1600 yeares euen from the time of Saint Gregorie the great Pope of Rome who sent hither Saint Austen that conuerted vs Englishmen froÌ„ Paganisme and Idolatry to the faith of Christ as our owne histories teach and from Saint Gregorie we can ascend by the current streame of Popes his predecessors to Saint Peter and Christ himselfe For that it was our Catholike religion which was then brought in by Saint Austen no doubt caÌ„ be made for our chronicles say so much the ruines of so many ancieÌ„t Abbies latelie suppressed do aboundantly testifie the same none of reason or reading will denie it
the Angels we hold them neither for patrons nor protectors Which honor we giue onely to the Sonne of God the head of Angels Neither doubt we but as farre as their ministerie extendeth toward vs so far they know our necessities and prayers But infinit knowledge which is proper to the Deity we ascribe not vnto them Neither is such limited knowledge in them any sufficient ground to leade vs to pray vnto them The Angel that was sent to informe Iohn the Euangelist in the visions reuealed notwithstanding the wonderfull counsell of God whereof he was then a minister an interpreter yet would not suffer Iohn to fall downe to him which is much lesse Apoc. 19. 10. then to pray to him For to whom we pray to him very religiously and lawfully we may fall downe Many reuelations of things secret remote were granted to the Prophets in old time and namely to Elisaeus yet read we not that any man did euer pray to them though some in reuerence to their ministerie the power of God administred by them did fall downe to them And yet how finely or rather grosly you can assume without proofe or shew of proofe that we may pray to our mortall brethren haue you either precept or example for it in all the Scripture Indeed we request and receiue one from another the helpe of our mutuall prayers call you this praying to our mortall brethren thus can you proue one paradoxe by another These be your forcible and plaine reasons for your falsly named Catholike faith PAPIST Seuenthly in the Geneua Psalmes annexed to the Communion Limbus Patrum booke and vsually sung in their churches they confesse that Christs soule descended to the Fathers that were in Limbo For this article of the Creed He descended into hel they turne into Meetor after this manner His soule did after this discend Into the lower parts To them that long in darknesse were the true light of their harts PROTESTANT First you corrupt the Meeter changing for your purpose Spirit into Soule The meeter hath Spirit not Soule Secondly what the translator meant by Spirit and by the lower parts it is not easie to define vnlesse himselfe had left some glosse vpon his owne meeter and considering that the lawe of meeter restrained him from libertie of plaine speech it were an iniury to him to wrest his words coÌ„trary to his meaning That by lower parts he meant your Limbus you haue nothing to perswade you but your owne preiudice that caries you so to vnderstand it It may be that by Spirit hee meant the power of his eternall Spirit which in his suffering and after his suffering wrought both in heauen vpon earth and vnder the earth euen vpon the bodies of the dead who were in the lower parts and lay in darknes as generally the dead do Hilarie speaketh to like effect Monetur terra capax enim mortus huius esse non poterat c. The earth Hilar. in Matth. Can. 33. Potestas aeternae virtutis was moued for it could not conteine him that was dead The rocks were clouen for the piercing word of God and the power of his eternall vertue had broken into all places how strong and well fenced soeuer And the graues were opened for the prisons of death were vnlocked And many bodies of the Saints that slept arose for he inlightning the darknes and shining into the obscuritie of the lower places for the preseÌ„t raising of the saints asleep took away the spoiles of death it selfe What is the power of his eternall vertue but his eternal spirit Whereby he brake into the holds of death the darknesse of death the obscurity of the lower parts caried away the spoiles of death did inlighten with the brightnes of his power the whole region of darknes to the coÌ„fort of all that waited for his coÌ„ming All which Hilarie saieth were done not by his soule but that nature which he calleth PenetraÌ„s Dei vertuÌ„ potestas aeternae vertutis that is his Deity And the scripture speaking of the faithful departed although the soule body by dissolution be in diuerse regions yet speaketh of the whole person together So saith the Apostle Peter of Dauid the patriake He is both dead and buried his sepulchre remaineth with vs. And the like in many Acts. 2. 29. other places wherfore the Power of Christ piercing to the dead was a coÌ„fort to all the faithfull departed If this were his meaning as by comparisoÌ„ of the former place of Hilarie we may very well iudge what seruice I pray you can this meeter do to your Limbus But whatsoeuer his mening were his priuate interpretation is no principle of our religioÌ„ neither can you be ignoraÌ„t that there be that hold some locall discent of Christ yet be far from holding your Limbus so might the author of that meeter likewise do Albeit we hold that article for a principle of our religion yet are not the sundry expositions thereof according as seuerall men haue conceiued so many principles of our religion you must therefore seeke further for principles to serue your turne PAPIST Lastly Martin Luther taught the Real preseuce maintained Real presence it against the Zwinglians as others of our Aduersaries caÌ„not denie and yet doth the Apologie of England penned by M. Iewel call him a most excellent man sent of God to giue light to the world How then can it be contrarie to the scripture for if it were so then surelie could he not be a man sent of God for the matter of the Sacrament is no small point but such as themselues will say that a wrong beliefe thereof bringeth damnation PROTESTANT Did Martin Luther teach Popish Reall prefence did he teach Transubstantiation of the bread into the body of Christ Did he teach carnall eating of Christs flesh In the Act. 10. Augustane confessioÌ„ wherein he was a chiefe part thus they coÌ„fesse Of the supper of the Lord they teach that the body bloud of Christ are truely present distributed to them that eate in the Lords supper We say the same in the Articles agreed vpon at Marpurg Octob. 3. 1529. Whereunto Martin Luther first subscribed we all beleeue and thinke that the Sacrament of the Altar is the Sacrament of the true Histor August Confess Spiritual eating body and bloud of Iesus Christ that the spirituall eating of this body bloud is chiefly necessary for euery ChristiaÌ„ man We say the same In certaine articles setting the state of the controuersie betweene Luther and Pâ—â—cer and the rest of the Cinglians as they are called Although we say that the bodie Artic. 2. In aliqua mole of Christ is really present yet Luther sayth not that it is present locally to wit in any bignes circumscriptiuely but after that maner whereby Christs person or whole Christ is present to his whole Church and to all creatures Luther saith not that Christs
Sess 3. cap. 1. Can. 1. body is in the sacrament Circūscriptiuè But your Trent Councell saith that the body of Christ is conteined in the sacrament of the Eucharist Wherfore although Luther had an opinion of a Real presence by himself which he could not tell how to expresse nor would haue any disputation about the maner yet in as much as he was farre from allowing your Popish charme whereby you worke your monstrous Transubstantiation nor helde any carnall eating neuer alleage Martin Luthers Real presence to giue countenance to your carnall presence The Apologie may well acknowledge him an excellent man sent of God to giue light to the world and yet not allow of his error in any thing neither will we say that euery wrong beliefe euen in matter of the sacrament bringeth damnation to a godly man otherwise holding the foundation And lastly Martine Luthers priuate opinion is no principle of our religion as you very well know PAPIST These things being so with what conscience can the Protestants iustlie exclaime against vs for defending a speciall confession of our sinnes absolution of the Priest the vse of Images and the picture of Christ crucified the holie ceremonies of oile and exorcisme copes and holie vestiments that Angels know our praiers and may be praied vnto that Christs soule descended into hell for the deliuerie of the holy Fathers that died before his sacred Passion the Real presence of Christ in the sacrament when as all these points either in expresse termes or by necessarie consequence be gathered out of the grounds of their owne Religion PROTESTANT These things being so that no one of the points mentioned is any principle of our Religion nor in any one of the points which we acknowledge do we agree with the Papists and the last of the seauen is none of ours with what conscience could a Papist go about to raise a reason for Popish idolatrie out of the principles of our religion in the end neither build vpon any principle of our Religion nor proue any agreement betweene Popish confession and absolution and that which the Church of England vseth betweene the signe of the Crosse as it is vsed in the Church of England and Popish Images betweene Godfathers and Abrenunciation and popish oile and exorcisme as now they are betweene the decencie of the Surples and the superstition of Popish vestemints betweene the doctrine of some Protestants touching the article of descending into hel Popish Limbus no nor yet betweene Martin Luthers Real presence and Popish carnal presence wheras no one of these Popish points can either in expresse terms or by any necessary cōsequēce be gathered either out of any principle orany practise or ceremonie in our religion as hath been shewed PAPIST The Fourth reason That is the true Church which hath the scriptures on their side and expoundeth them in that sense and meaning which was intended by the holie Ghost and none can deny but al this is verified of the Catholike Church and not of the Protestant as a fewe plaine arguments shall make manifest First therefore no reason in the world can the Protestants aleage to proue that the scriptures be theirs or to iustifie their interpretation which we cannot bring also for vs. For let them pretend conference of places recourse to the fountaines of the Greeker Hebrue or what else they will all that we can say for our selues and with a◠great probability as they and so in any iudgmet not palpablypartial we nothing inferior On the cōtoary we to maintaine our expositiō beside all other helps cite the consent of ancient Fathers the cōmon practise of Gods Church the decrees of generall Councels none of which they will stand to and therefore in all equity and reason wee passing much superiour can we then lacke the true sense of scripture that haue all these to backe our interpretation specially that of Gods Church in generall councels or can the Protestants haue it that be destitute of all these as their deniall of them doth euidentlie proue and conuince PROTESTANT This forcible Reasoner seemeth now as if he would come to vs and ioyne issue with vs to be tryed by the Scriptures whether the Popish Church or our Church be the true Church But surely if there be no more force in his reason then plainenes in his dealing this reason wil be like his fellowes and so proue neither forcible nor plaine For when the reckoning of his reason is cast vp he calleth backe the triall of the true Church from the scriptures to his pretended Fathers and Councels and againe from them to Gods Church that is in his meaning the Popish Church from whence all vseth to be deuolued to the Pope And so in conclusion the question being whether the Popish Church be the true Church we must be tried by the Pope who were much to blame if he would not say that his owne Church is the true Church for euen theeues will say that they are honest men Your owne Cannon law hath prouided that in all matters of faith all men yea euen all Bishops must referre themselues to the Pope Quoties c. As often as anie matter Caus 24. q. 1 of faith is debated I thinke that all our brethren and fellow Bishops ought to referre the matter to none but to Peter that is to the authoritie of his name and honour What is the authority of Peters name and honour but the Pope and therefore the Glosse there setteth downe in the margent It is the Popes office to determine a question moued about faith And Thomas Aquinas It belongeth to faith to sticke to the Popes determination Opuse con error Graec. it matters of faith yea and in those things also that belong to good manners If then in matter of faith or maners we cannot agree vpō sense of scripture the Pope must strike the stroke which he will be sure shall not hurt himselfe So very fitly agreeth vnto you that which Athanasius speaketh against Orat. 1. con Arria◠the Arrians They presume to determine of faith and being themselues guiltie and obnoxious to indgment like vnto Caiaphas they vsurpe the office of indging These are the men that will proue their Church to be the true Church by hauing the scriptures on their side but they will be the interpretors of scriptures by the mouth of their Pope Well go too though vnder the bare pretence of scriptures you meane to bring in the Pope yet let vs see how you proue that the popish Church which you falsly call the Catholike Church hath the scriptures on her side and expoundeth them by the sense intended by the holy Ghost Your first argument is onely a vaine brag Forsooth you can bring any reason for your expositiōs that the Protestāts can bring for theirs as conference of places recourse to the fountaines and what else they will and with as great probabilitie as they Why then do you not vse to follow
that course in trying out the true meaning of the scriptures Why do you Trid. Concil Sess 4. Dec. 2. without all conference of places tie all men to such a sense onely as the holy mother Church that is your Popish Church holdeth to whom you say it belongeth to iudge of Trid. Concil ibidem the true sence of scriptures or whereupon all the Fathers consent in one which you know to be imposible to finde Why do you exclude the originall Bibles and bind all men in expositions to your vulgare Latine as authenticall and vpon no pretence to be refused Whatsoeuer you boast your owne coÌ„sciences tell you that conference of places and recourse to the fountaines will do your cause more harme then good And heere I wish the reader to obserue how sly lie you insinuate that in conference of places recourse to the fountaines or any other help that we vse there is onely probility and therfore these meanes will not serue there is no rest till you come to that which you call Gods Church in general councels which in conclusion shall be all laied in the Popes lap of which pierlesse meanes to know the vndoubted sense of scripture it is maruaile that Augustine in his bookes De Doctrina Christiana haÌ„dling that point at large forgatto speak specially if as you pretend this be the onely sure way that worthy Father spent his time belike in those meanes that haue onely a probability in them as the Phrase of scripture the circumstances of places comparison with other places analogie of faith c. And neuer thought of that which by your saying is worth all the rest As you haue onely boasted of conference of places and recourse to the fountaines so do you also of the consent of auncient Fathers whereunto your selues will not be bound For when Cardinal Caietane as Andradius Dcfens fid .. Trid. lib. 2. reporteth professeth that sometimes he will inteprete the scriptures against the straeme of the Doctors and exhorteth the readers to trie his writings not by other mens preiudice but by context of scripture some accused him for it as a fautor of the Lutherans But Andradius defendes him and giues his reasons First because the Fathers in infinit places specially of the old testamet leauing the literall sense which he confesseth doth onely serue to proue doctrine runne vpon other senses Heere a man may freely depart from their exposition and search for the literall sense Secondly because the Fathers very ofteÌ„ seeking for the true sense of the scriptures haue giuen senses very diuerse and vnlike one to another which if it be true when will you finde the consent of the Fathers about the sense of Scripture Therefore Andraduis concludes that no man is bound to their expositions but is at free libertie forsaking them all to trie what he can do by Gods help and to find out another new sense vnlike to the ancient Fathers expositions Be not offended with him he doth you more seruice then you are ware of For now you shal be at liberty to put vpon the scripture what sense you will though it be against the streame of the Fathers Thus you followe the coonsent of the ancient Fathers to whose sleeue when it comes to the iumpe you will not be pinned Andradius to serue your turne can alleage Augustines iudgment Epist 3. ad Fortunat. alleaged Dist 9. Can. Neque Nobis enim licebit c. For it shall bee lawfull for vs sauing the honorable respect which is due to the holy Fathers to mislike and reiect something in their writings if peraduenture we find that they haue otherwise iudged then the truth will beare by Gods help vnderstood either of others or of our selues Whereunto we will also adde what the same Augustine saith De vnitat Eccles cap. 10. Nemo mihi dicat c. Let no man say to me Or what saied Donatus to me or what saith Parmenianus or Pontius or anie of them for xe may not consent no not to Catholike Bishops if perhaps they be any where deceiued So that they haue held any opinioÌ„ against the Canonical scriptures May not these testimonies of Augustine as wel be alleaged held good on our part as on yours To conclude in this point against your appeale to Scriptures you vsually obiect that Heretikes alleage scriptures It is true and Diuels too but corrupted and Christ alleageth them against the Diuel and bids all men search them But do not heretickes also alleage the Fathers as boldly as you that call your selues Catholikes you cannot be ignorant of the mouthie clamor of Dioscorus the Euty chian hereticke in the Councell of Chalcedon I haue the testimonie Concil Chalced. Act. 1. of the auncient Fathers Athanasius Gregorie and Cyril in manie places I am cast out with the Fathers I defend the Fathers opinions I transgresse not in anie thing c. If we may not build vpon Scriptures because heretikes alleage them much lesse may we vpon Fathers which heretikes also alleage Your next meane is The common practice of Gods Church Indeede this rule will serue your turne well For what meane you by Gods Church Forsooth the Popish church So then no interpretation of Scripture may bee good that crosseth any practice of the Popish church so you shall bee sure to keepe all whole You should in wisedom haue concealed this as a mysterie among your selues For what is it else but a conspiracie that whatsoeuer the Scripture saith in words it must at no hand bee vnderstoode to be against Popish practise By this tyrannie your Popes haue gotten the start fall the world in so much that though he runne Dist â—0 Si Papa to hell himselfe and draw innumerable soules with him yet no mortall man may presume to reprooue him because he is to iudge all and none to iudge him Follow him to hell you that will we will follow our Lord Iesus as his word leadeth vs. For him we knowe to be the way the truth and the life Thus notably you proue that you haue the true sense of the Scriptures and therefore are the true Church Yours is the true sense because it is confirmed by your owne practise And why so Forsooth you say so What is this else but aske my fellow if I be a theefe First you set vp a wicked practise then you peruert the Scriptures to maintaine it and afterward prooue your interpretation of Scriptures by your practise Your practise is good Why the Scripture as you vnderstand it is for your practise And why must the Scripture be so vnderstoode because your practise so requires First you get both swords into your hands then you prooue it by Ecce due gladij behold heere two swords First Extrau cont de maior obed cap. Vnam sanctam you get aboue Emperours and Kings then you prooue it by Inprincipio non in principijs in the beginning not in the beginnings Such is your practise and such
of all godly Christians that dote not vpon Popish idols the name mage either to represent God or to worship God or Saint withall is become as odious as the name Idoll and nothing diuerse from it And because the notorious idols of Poperie are in their language called images and holy images being indeede most accursed idols not without good cause did that religious Translator turne the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into Iusages in English that English men might beware of Popish images which are Idols Neither is the alteration of the terme in a later translation any correction of the former but a variation onely intending still still the terme Idols to extend it selfe to Popish images as well as heathenish as you Papists and all men doe well enough perceiue and know Thirdly your owne vulgar translation hath Filioli custodite vos a simulachris which what is it else in English but Babes keepâ— your selues from images For howsoeuer you shift about this word also and would haue the true notation of it giuen by Lactantius that it hath his name à similitudine that De Orig. erro lib. 2. cap. 2. is of likenesse and is all one with imago animage for so Lactantius manifestly confounds it and will needs haue it come onely à simulando of counterfeâ—ting or feming yet this poore shift will do you little good For euen this counterfeiting is not without likenesse whether the matter counterfeited haue a true being or a false The strange picture whereof Horace speaketh De arte poetica made with a womans head a horse necke with other parts borowed of other creatures and lastly a fishes taile though it be no likenesse of any thing that hath a being yet is it a likenesse if of no more then of the Painters fansie Simulachrum therefore when you haue sayd all you can is an image and so much Doctor Fulke hath proued vnto you out of sundrie Authors As lawfully Against Greâ— Mattia cap. 1. sect 5. then might Tyndall translate from images as your vulgar à simulachris Lastly your vulgar translation hath in the second commandement Exod. 20. Similitudinem Lakenesse of any â—â—g which in the Hebrew is Temunah Arias Montanus translateth the same word Imagmem an image Deut. 4. 6. and your owne vulgar in the same place Non vidistus aliquam similitudinem in die qua locutus est vobiâ— Dominus in Oreb de medio ignis â—â— forte decepts faciatis vobis sculptam similitudinem â—ut imaginem omnium Iumentorum You savve no likenesse in the day vvherein the Lord spake vnto you out of Oreb out of the middest of the fire least you being deceiued make unto you any grauen likenesse or any â—mage of any beast c. And August Quest super Exod translateth the second Commandement thus Non facies tibi idôlum neque vllum simulachrum quaecunque in coelo sunt sursum wherehy it appeareth first that siâ—ulachrum imago differ not and therefore the vulgar translating simulachris we may translate images Secondly that God in the second commandement commandeth to make no image and therfore againe the Apostles dehortation being deduced out of the second Commandement Tyndall translated well and according to the â—Apostles meaning Babes or little children keepe your selues from Images Now then to what streits you are driuen that you haue no otherâ— way to maintaine your Imagerie and worshipping of Images then by such nice distinctions of imago and simulachrum of Imago and idôlum betweene which the Scriptures put no difference if your authenticall translation and Arias Montanus doe rightly translate I appeale to your owne consciences if you haue not sold them to maintaine idolatrie as Ieroboam did himselfe and to the indifferent iudgement of all that are not partiall PAPIST Likewise to bring the Shrines of Martyrs and holy reliques in contempt and to make simple people beleeue that it is an heathenish custome they translate thus in the said old Bible Demetrius a siluer smith that made siluer shrines for Diana Malitious corruptioÌ„ for in the text there is no mention of siluer shrines but of siluer temples and to the fore said later Bible truly translateth See hovv they can accommodate their Bibles to the time For when Images and shrines were yet standing in England or fresh in memorie they fitted their translations accordingly PROTESTANT To this pidling quarrell little answer needs The word in that place is rather to be vnderstood of some coine wherein the Image and temple of Diana was stamped then of any Temple or Shrine yet did not the old Translator without authority so translate For therein hee followed Homil. 42. in Act. Chrisostome who coÌ„ceiueth that they may be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Little Shrines But there is no neede to inforce this place against your idolatrie to Shrines of Saints and Relikes the Scriptures do largely affoord reasons proofes against it your seruice you do vnto theÌ„ your annexing of power and grace vnto them your trust you put in them are so many so grosse idolatries that without streyning any one place of Scripture the first and second commandement do aboundantly condemne them PAPIST As in these points the old translation is corrupt and the later better so in other things the later is false and the former true for example thus they translate Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Act. 2. 27. graue Malitious corruption against the descending of Christes soule into hell For it is contrarte to the originall text and the former translation of Tyndal PROTESTANT This cauilling obiection hath beene often made by you Papists and often answered as all men know and therfore it may seeme a vaine labour to trauaile in satisfying them that will accept no satisfaction Howbeit for their sakes that peraduenture haue seene your obiection but haue taken no paines to vnderstand the answere I will briefly set it downe if at least they will vouchsafe to heare it First therefore you cannot be ignorant that the Hebrue word Sheol doth in that tongue properly signifie the graue as the learned interpreters of that tongue do obserue and Doctor Fulke against Gregorie Martine hath maintained Pagnine giues that interpretation first as the naturall proprietie of the word and accordingly translateth Gen. 42. 38 Et descendere facutis meam canitiem cum dolore ad sepulchrum You will bring my gray head with sorrow to the graue And in this very place Psalm 16. 10. Quoniam non derelingues aniâ—ans meam in sepulchre Thou wilt not leaue my soule in graue And so likewise in other places as Gen. 37. 35. Iob. 17. 13. 1 King 2. 9. c. In all which places Arias Montanus altereth not his translation and your Louanian Censors haue approoued it Is it malitious corruption in our translations and not in yours Secondly by the interpretation of Peter and Paul Act. 2. 31 33. 13. 35. 36. 37. The Prophet here spake of Christs resurrection but
goe hee neuer went into hell of the damned where the faithfull neuer come And therefore to conclude Augustine though he translate in inferno and ex inferno meaneth onely the graue or at the largest the Region of death whither the dead goe Say not then that we translate graue against Christs descending into hell wee may with Augustine translate hell and yet with him not meane the hell of the damned but the common hell of the dead PAPIST Likewise to auoide the descending of Christ into hell for the delâ—uerie of the olde Fathers they translate thus Christ hath once suffered for sinnes the iust for the vniust that hee might bring vs to God and was put to death concerning the flesh but was quickened 1. Pet. 3. 18. by the spirit by which also hee went and preached to the spirits that are in prison In which short sentence be three corruptions to wit By the spirit for In the spirit By the which for in the which and Are in prison for were in prison Corruptions I say they are as I appeale for triall to their former translation and of purpose to denie that Christ in soule or spirit did descend to the Fathers that were in Limbo or as it is heere said in prison when S. Peter wrote his Epistle as by forcing in the word Are in steede of Were they would haue the Reader thinke then wére they not deliuered by Christes descension as we teach and S. Peter in this place PROTESTANT It is strange to see how you are blinded and oppressed with a spirit of slumber that you cannot discerne how impossible it is to fit this place to your Limbus First if Abrahams bosome be this imagined limbus neither may these disobedient in the dayes of Noe whom the Scripture calleth the world of the vngodly 2. Pet 2. 5. be placed in Abrahams bosome being for eating and drinking and all sensuality more like to the rich glutton then to Abraham neither may the olde Fathers for whose deliuerance Luk. 21. Christ descended as you say be branded with the note of disobedience to whom the holy Ghost beareth witnesse that they died in the faith and had good report for their faith This Heb. 11. 13. 39. place therefore speaking of Christes comming in the Spirit and preaching to the Spirits that were disobedient in the daies of Noe cannot be applied to the Fathers in Abrahams bosome which also very vnfitly may be termed a prison Secondly if it be yeelded that Christ went in soule to the place called Abrahams bosome as we denie not but he did it being all one with that Paradise wherein Christ promised that the penitent theefe should be with him yet if your Limbus be in the Region of hell a border of hell Christ could not descend into it when he went into Abrahams bosome for betweene Hell and Abrahams bosome there is a great Chaos or as Augustine saith Quidam biatus multum ea separans Epist 99. ad Eâ—od a certaine wide gap much separating them a wide space of distance that none can come out of the one Region into the other and therefore Augustine resolueth that Abrahams bosome which is an habitation of a kinde of secret quietnes or rest is at no hand to be thought or beleeued to be any part â—â—â—â—ll In so much that if the Scripture had said that Christ when he died went into Abrahams bosome Augustine meruaileth whether anie man would haue beene so bolde as out of such words to affirme that Christ descended into hell Thirdly Augustine beating his head about that place as Euodius offered it vnto him namely to see how it might be applied to Christes descending into hell findes so many difficulties in it that hee wisheth Euodius rather to consider whether the whole place belong nothing at all to hell but rather to those times the paterne whereof Peter applied to the times present to shew that those which now beleeue not the Gospell preached are like those that beleeued not and perished in the daies of Noe. Thus applying the place to the example of those daies Non suspicemur saith Augustine quod apud inferos ad faciendos fideles atque liberandos Euangelium predicatum sit Let vs not imagine that the Gospell vvas preached in hell to make men faithfull and to deliuer them as if anie Church vvere there To the other sense which Euodius had taken hold of from others Augustine saith The author of at seemes to haue beene drawen because Peter said hee preached to the Spirits that vvere shut vp in prison as if saith he it might not be vnderstoode of their soules vvho then were shut vp in the darknes of ignorance as in a prison to whoÌ„ then liuing the building of the Ark by Noe was after a sort a preaching before the sloud as at this day the daily building of Gods Church is a preaching to the vnbeleeuers before the day of iudgement and so those times are a paterne of these Thus hauing answered this obiection he proceedeth to answere another that might be made against this latter sense namely that Christ in those times was not come and therefore could not then preach Let this trouble no man saith Augustine Nondum enim venerat scilicet in carne veruntamen ab initio generis humani ipse vtique non in carne sed in spiritu veniebat quod autem dixi in spiritu veniebat Et ipse quidem filius in substantia deitatis quoniam corpus non est vtique Spiritus est Christ saith Augustine vvas not then come to vvit in the flesh Howbeit from the beginning of mankinde hee came not indeede in the flesh but in the spirit and that vvhich I said he came in the Spirit is thus to be vnderstood that the sonne of man in the substance of his godhead because he is not a bodie is vvithout doubt a spirit This saith Augustine the verie vvords of Scripture in hand doe sufficientlie manifest to them that take diligent heede vnto them and then repeating the words of the text maketh this paraphrase of his owne Christus mortificatus carne viuificatus autem spiritu In quo spiritu adueniens praedicauit illis spiritibus qui incredali fuerant alâ—quando in diebus Noe quoniam priusquam veniret in carne pro nobis moriturus quod semel fecit saepè antea veniebat in spiritu ad quos volebat visis eos admoneus sicut volebat vtique in spiritu quo spiritu viuificatus est quum in passione esset carne mortificatus Quid est enim quod viuificatus est spiritu nisi quod eadem caro qua sola fuerat mortificatus viuificante spiritu resurrexit Christ saith he was mortified in the flesh and quickened in the spirit in vvhich spirit he came preached euen to those spirits which had bene sometime disobedient in the daies of Noe for before he came in the flesh to die for vs vvhich he did once he came many times before
and in sin hath my mother conceiued me it conuinceth that all the frame of the thoughts of Psal 51. 5. mans heart is onely euill continuallie that in vs that is in our flesh dwelleth no good thing it prooues vs to be dead in trespasses and sinnes and therefore to be the children of wrath Whereby we are stripped of all conceit of free will of all presumption Gen. 6. 5. of our owne righteousnes and is the most vniuersal schoolmaister to lead all men vnto Christ In this so high a principle of faith I say your Church and his children hauing either no faith at all or a faith of many colours and manie Eph. 2. 1. 3. shapes notwithstanding your infallible iudge boast no longer of your one and the same Cutholike faith in all the world Your vaine and foolish contumelie which you cast vpon the Protestants that for triall of the scriptures they repaire to the spirit and for triall of the spirit post backe againe to the scripâ—â—res and sorunne round from the Scriptures to the Spirit and from the Spirit to the Scriptures world without end bewraies in you great ignorance of our doctrine For we diuide not the Spirit from the Scriptures nor the Scriptures from the Spirit that we should be faine to runne or go from the one to the other onely in the Scriptures we heare or learne of the Spirit whatsoeuer we know in the Scriptures we know it by the teaching of Gods Spirit that speaketh in them whatsoeuer we learne of the Spirit we learne it by and out of the Scriptures when we repaire to the Sriptures we repaire to the Spirit and when we go to enquire of the Spirit we go to the Scriptures If the God of this worlde had not blinded your eies that the light of this truth cannot shine vnto you you would neuer haue vpbraided vs with posting to and fro and running round But because you tell vs of roundes I pray you see what roundes your selires make in a matter of Faith of greatest consequence in all your Religion you giue out this conclusion as an article Subesse roâ—â—no Poâ—tifici omni creaturae est Extr. com de Ma. ior c. obed â—nam Sactam de necessitate salutis To be subiect to the Pope of Roâ—â—e is nâ—cessaerie to saluation for euerie creature we require you to proue it you alleage that the Pope is the heade of the vniuersal Church we yet aske for proofe you bring vs Tues Peirus super hane petraÌ„ c. Thou art Peter and vpon this rocke I wil build my Church tibi dabo claues to thee I wil giue the keies of the kingdome of heauen pasce oues me as feed my sheep feed my lambes We tell you Peter is one stone in the building but no rock or if you will needes haue a rocke his confession or Christ whom heconfessed is the rocke or foundation whereon the Church is builded we tell you the keies were giuen to Peter not alone but to the rest of the Apostles and hee with them commanded to feede sheepe and lambes and further whatsoeuer was giuen to Peter extendeth not to the Pope who is not Peter you say that Peter receiued those honours for himselfe and his successors and that the Church is built vpon him and them as a rocke and that he for himselfe his successors receiued the keies and left them to the Pope of Rome who now is Shepheard ouer sheepe and lambes all this you will proue by the scriptures we râ—â—uire you to proue that the Scriptures haue this sense you fetch your proofe from the Fathers we bring the Fathers as cleerly yea more cleerely for our interpretation then you can for Concil Nicen. Conat Afric yours you thrust on forward to the CouÌ„cels we bring you the authority of Councels to make the Pope no more theÌ„ a peere among other Patriarkes yea to cutte him off from medling out of his Dioces now you post to Councels confirmed by the heade that is the Pope whom either with Conncels or without you make your only infallible Iudge Are you now where you began do you thus daunce in a rounde and tell vs of roundes The Pope is head of the vniuersall Church Who saith so the Scriptures who shall interpret the Scriptures the Fathers Fathers not agreeing who shall iudge betweene them Councels Councels agree not who then shall strike the stroke the Pope And so the Pope is heade of the Church because the Pope will be so With these rounds you haue made giddie and brai nesicke innumerable poore soules God in his mercie stablish their hearts with grace that their eies may see the pitte before they fall into it Now I pray you what be those matters of Faith wherein the Protestants haue such mortall dissention without any hope of agreement they are many you say reckon them that we see how many they be The descending of Christ into hell and the lawfulnes of Archbishops and Bishops Is the question about Archbishops Bishops a matter of faith among Papists it may well be so who hold the Popes supremacy for the first and chiefe yea in effect for all the articles of their faith but surely Protestants holde it onely for a matter of order appertaining to the externall gouernement of the Church which is farre from a matter of faith your many matters of faith then are come to but one and that such a one as in ancient times was no article of faith at all in your Romane Creede no nor yet receiued in the East Churches In. expos Symboli as Ruffinus affirmeth Sciâ—nauÌ„ est quod in Ecclesiae Romana Symbolo non habetur additum We must know that it is not found added in the Creede of the Romane Church neither is the canse receiued among the East Churches And being receiued there Epist 99. was little certainty of the sense and meaning of it Ruffinus takes it to be all one with Sepultus est he was buried Augustine De Genes ad Lit. lib. 12. cap. as is afore shewed denies that Abrahams bosome is any part of holl and else where confesseth that neuer yet found that it is called hell where the soules of the righteous do rest And so little light can be founde of any such conceite as Papists De Christi anima lib. 4. cap. 5. haue of Christs descending into hell that Bellarmine saith Non est necessaria presentia animae Christi c. The presence of Christs soule to inlighten the Fathers with the diuine vision of him is not necessarie yet it seemed to be of congruitio that it should be present while that was in doing He makes it not of necessity but of congruity and that but in seeming neither this is as touching the sense but a weake matter of faith to obiect vnto vs that we dissent about it For we dissent not about the words of the article but receiue it we are