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soul_n	body_n	death_n	hell_n	16,892	5	7.9791	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A09831	The refutation of an epistle, written by a certain doctor of the Augustins order within the citie of Leige together with the arguments, which he hath borrowed from Robert Bellarmine, to proue the inuocation of Saints. By Iohn Polyander, minister vnto the French Church in Dort: and now translated by Henry Hexham, out of French into English.	Polyander à Kerckhoven, Johannes, 1568-1646.; Hexham, Henry, 1585?-1650?	1610 (1610)	STC 20096; ESTC S100869	112,398	138

poore Lazarus had there endured Thirdly hee saw and knew the estate and condition of that wicked wretch and heard his prayer although he was not heard when he cried Father Abraham haue mercie on me and send Lazarus c. Notwithstanding there was a great distance betweene the one and the other as Abraham answered him finally albeit that the rich Glutton was damned saw he not Abraham heard he not his answere gaue he not his replies albeit there was a great gulfe set betweene them Now there is no man that dares deny all this because it is the Gospell and a storie pronounced by the mouth of him which cannot lie but is the very truth himselfe euen Iesus Christ. And if this thing and storie be true as it is I now charge all the Caluinian and Lutherian Ministers and say vnto them If Abrah●m my Masters being shut vp in Limbo and not enioying at that time the sight of God nor being blessed but through hope knew notwithstanding the things of this world the estate and miserie of the rich Glutton and heard him make his prayer and demaund will you thinke that the Saints in Paradise beholding God and his most bright sight are better priuiledged then Abraham I will reduce your paradox and superfluitie of words into this summarie If say you Abraham in Limbo being not yet blessed but through hope knew the things of this world as appeareth by the historie thereof contained in the 16. chapter of S. Luke the Saints in paradise enioying the most glorious countenance of God are not lesse priuiledged in that then Abraham Now you presuppose that this is a sure foundation that Abraham after his death knew the affaires of this world and from thence you conclude that the consequence which you draw from it is good and true I say that in your discourse you interlarde many things false and vncertaine For first you presuppose that Abraham was in Limbo and in the place of such as are not blessed but through hope when Christ spake of him and Lazarus to his disciples Whereof we can shew you the contrarie in the 8. chapter of S. Matthew and eleuenth verse where Christ saith that many shall come from the East and West and shall sit downe with Abraham and Isaac and Iacob in the kingdome of heauen In which text you may see that Iesus Christ promiseth all those which shall beleeue in his doctrine that their soules shall be transported into the kingdome of heauen where were then at that time the soules of Abraham Isaac and Iacob From whence one may easily gather that Iesus Christ vnderstood in S. Luke by the bosome of Abraham that which in S. Matthew hee calleth the kingdome of heauen In consideration whereof sundrie of the ancient Fathers haue expressed those words of Abrahams bosome by the name of Paradise Likewise there are some of them which haue concluded from the abouesaid chapter of S. Luke and some other places of holy Scripture that men at their departure out of this life enter as touching their soules either into eternall rest or into eternal torment and so consequently there is neither Limbo or Purgatorie There are two waies saith Lactantius in his sixth booke of Baptisme by which it is necessary that humane life must passe the one will carrie and lift men vp into heauen the other will cast them downe headlong into hell And Origen saith in his booke of Workes that soules which depart this world are either distributed into hell or into the bosome of Abraham In like manner S. Epiphanius in his Treatise of Heresie saith in his 19. chapter that after death there is no succour no pitie no repentance For Lazarus commeth not to the rich Glutton nor the rich Glutton to Lazarus neither doth Abraham let fall his robes from on high to inrich that wofull wretch nor the rich Glutton obtaineth not also his request though hee besought it of pitifull Abraham with many prayers For the chambers are sealed vp the time accomplished the combat atchieued the lists made voide the Crowne giuen and those which haue fought doe rest and those which haue not gained before are departed from thence and those which haue not fought cannot offer themselues any more for that purpose and those which haue lost it in the lists are put out and all things are fully accomplished after our departure out of this world S. Ierome teacheth vs the like in his discourse vpon the death of Paula Let it not grieue vs saith he for hauing lost her or rather for hauing her still for all things liue to God and all they which returne to the Lord be as in the number of his familie we account that we haue lost her but she is lodged in heauen For when Paula was in her bodie she was absent from the Lord saying I am a pilgrim and a stranger here as all my Fathers were I desire to be separated from this body and to bee with Christ. She now enioyeth the blessings which no eye hath seene no eare hath heard nor which euer could enter into the heart of man Whereof Iustine the Martyr also speaketh very cleerely in his 60 and 75. questions In the storie saith hee of Lazarus and the rich Glutton there is a declaration which conteineth this doctrine that after the soule is issued foorth of the body men cannot receiue any further succour by any care or prudence After the soule is dislodged from the body there is presently a distinction made betweene the righteous and the vnrighteous For the soules of the righteous are carried by the Angels into the places of Paradise whereof they are worthy where they haue the conuersation and view of Angels and Archangels yea euen the sight of our Lord Iesus Christ according to that which is said Being absent from the body we are present with the Lord But the soules of the vnrighteous goe into the places of hell as it is said of Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon Hell beneath is moued against thy comming and that which followeth And all soules are kept in these two places till the houre of the resurrection Whereunto S. Ambrose subscribeth by the exhortation which hee made to Christians in his Treatise of the Good of Death chap. 12. When the day of our death shal come saith he let vs march straight forward without feare into the companie of the Saints for we shall goe to our fathers and to those which haue taught vs the faith to the intent that if our workes doe faile vs our faith may succour vs and our inheritance may defend vs. Also the soule flies from hence on high she goeth to dwell with that pure good which is both perpetuall and immortall c. The soules rest is in the land of the liuing whereunto no sinnes can penetrate where liueth the glorie of vertues According to which saying S. Austine giueth vs this remonstrance in his 80. Epistle to

THE REFVTATION OF AN EPISTLE WRITTEN BY A CERTAIN DOCTOR OF the Augustins Order within the Citie of Leige TOGETHER WITH THE ARGVMENTS which he hath borrowed from Robert Bellarmine to proue the inuocation of Saints By IOHN POLYANDER Minister vnto the French Church in Dort And now translated by HENRY HEXHAM out of French into English 1. PETER 4. 11. If any man speake let him talke as the words of God AT LONDON Imprinted by F. K. for Thomas Man 1610. TO THE HONORABLE AND RIGHT WORTHIE SIR HORACE VERE Knight Lord Gouernour of his Maiesties Cautionarie Towne of Briel in Holland and chiefe Commander vnder his Excellencie of all the English Forces in the seruice of the Lords the States of the vnited Prouinces RIght Honourable and my best Lord it shal not offend any that know your Lordship how God hath honoured you with the eminent markes of Honour in your noble Birth great Exploits true vertues and vnfained godlinesse so much the greater by how much the rarer dignities that I stile you right Honourable and I trust it will not offend you that I call you my best Lord whom I haue long followed and next vnder God doe depend vpon If ought need excuse it is then this boldnesse that I presume vpon your fauour so much as to dedicate this Treatise vnto your name and that without your Lordships priuitie The Treatise right worthy being considered in it selfe is not vnworthie a noble Patron being written of a notable argument and by a notable Minister and in my opinion so much the more agreeable vnto you by how much you declare your self a zealous louer of that Truth which this author maintaineth and haue with losse of blood and hazard of life defended with your sword what this man by his pen. As touching my part therein which is the least and the translation though it be not so well worthie of you yet because it is due to you being done by one of your Lordships Companie and in the towne of your Garrison where it was also penned and by me that haue deuoted my selfe vnto your seruice in any dutie I can performe I hope your Lordship will not only pardon my boldnesse but accept my dutifull affections in this which in my prayers to God for you shall euer shew themselues to be such as becommeth me Your Lordships Souldier euer to be commanded Henry Hexham TO THE CHRISTIAN READER THe extreame libertie which this scribling age taketh of writing and publishing idle and vnprofitable pamphlets and the double diligence of Popish Writers in painting the old and withered face of their Iezabel not onely may but ought to prouoke those that can dee it to set forth wholesome things as counter-poysons or preseruatiues against the foresaid poysons of manners and doctrine Hereupon I confesse to haue encouraged the translator of this present Treatise to publish the same in our language into which hee had and so farre as I can indge both faithfully and fitly turned it out of French that our countrey-men might see how the Ministers of other Churches are assaulted and do make their iust defence with the same weapons with which our owne Touching the author of this booke I may not conceale that he is a man of singular note for his learning grauity pietie and conuersation and hath so stood in the seruice of the French Church at Dort in Holland for the space of eighteene yeeres to the praise of God Concerning the worke I will not so much ouervalew my selfe or vndervalew it as to recommend it vpon my word vnto the Churches of God for who am I but signifie that the seuerall impressions of it in French the translating thereof into the Dutch tongue and the good respect thereof in the French and Dutch Churches doe more then sufficiently commend it vnto all men wherefore good Reader I leaue it thus commended vnto thee and pray God to make it profitable to thee as it hath bin to many others Thine in the Lord Iohn Burges Preacher to the English at the Hag●●e in Holland TO THE FRENCH CHVRCH ASSEMBLED together at Dort THere is no exercise most deare and worthie Brethren in the Lord more needfull nor more conuenient for a Christian man then to call vpon his Creator and Sauiour For sith that hee receiueth from his hand all manner of blessings aswell for this present life as for that which is to come he is therefore bound continually to inuocate and call vpon him for aide who is the Father of lights from whom commeth downe euery good giuing and euery perfect gift Beside it is also that marke by which the children of light are discerned from the children of this world who as it is written in the 14 Psalme haue no care to call vpon the Lord. Moreouer it is one of the parts of that Christian acknowledgement whereby wee make profession to beleeue that God is and that he is a rewarder of them that seeke him as the Apostle witnesseth in the 11. Chapter to the Hebrewes and sixth verse It is a sweete communication and a familiar discourse with God whereby wee freely declare to him our necessities and beseech him to returne an answere to our petitions in due time It may also be called an ambassage or a trusty Post which swiftly mounting vp to heauen knocketh at the gate of Gods palace there to present before him all our requests Finally it is the very soule of our soules and like as our bodies cannot liue nor subsist without our soules so likewise cannot our soules perseuere in the faith and hope of the grace of God which is the fountaine of life without the exercise of prayer Which point the Fathers of the old Testament considering ere they betooke themselues to any of their affaires began them euermore by calling vpon the name of God saying Our helpe is in the name of the Lord which hath made heauen and earth Which also the Iewes from the godlinesse of their forefathers hold yet vnto this day and obserue it so carefully that they addresse their prayers to none but to that sole Creator of all things Wherein these ignorant people which neither know the Sonne nor the Father shew themselues farre more wise and religious then the Papists which call themselues Christians and Catholikes and yet notwithstanding are so blockish and superstitious that in stead of addressing themselues to the only God Almightie immortall they implore the aide of the dead and their Idols not considering what the Lord speaketh by his Prophet Esay in the 42. chap. and 8. verse that his glorie he will not giue to another neither his praise to grauen Images But what the diuell sworne enemie against the honour of God and mans saluation hath with such an efficacy breathed this impiety into the hearts of those lying Doctors that albeit they are conuicted by an infinit number of sentences of holy Scripture by which God expressely forbiddeth vs not to worship any but

by them euery good thing commeth from the Father of lights in fauour of those that craue it with a stedfast faith Furthermore S. Ambrose saith in his booke Deviduis that It behoueth vs to inuocate the Angels which are giuen vs for our sauegards and to pray to the Martyrs also whose fauour we pretend through the alliance of the same nature that they make intercession for our sinnes hauing by their owne blood washed off those which themselues might haue These the Martyrs of God are our Prelats and beholders of our liues and actions Let vs not then be afraid to take as Intercessors those which in the midst of their victories knew their owne infirmitie Saint Hierom in his Epitaph to Paula inuocating this holy Lady Paula said Farewell O Paula helpe by thy praiers the later age of thy deuoted seruant thy faith and thy works associat thee with Iesus Christ and being there present thou maiest more easily obtaine thy request And the most learned and most deuout Doctor S. Austin in his Mediations cap. 40. calling vpon the Virgin saith Holy and immaculate Virgin mother of God Mary the mother of our Lord Iesus Christ deigne to make intercession for mee vnto him of whom thou hast been made the holy temple through thy vertues and merits And afterward hauing inuocated all the Saints in order he concludeth I am become so bold to beseech thee that it may please thee to pray for me to the end that I may merit to bee plucked out of Satans throte and from eternall death I let slip many other excellent speeches which this Doctor hath written in his 18. sermon made of Saints I will not here recite S. Leo and S. Gregory which were Popes neither S. Gregory of Tours S. Anfelmus S. Bernard and many moe which teach the same in this matter for the confirmation of our faith of whom the halfe were more then too sufficient to make all Lutherans and Caluinists to blush if they had any bloud in their hearts I will let passe in silence the many miracles done through the inuocation of Saints which the holy Father S. Austin of whom my masters the Ministers so willingly doe helpe themselues but would to God it were to a good end setteth downe before vs in his 22. booke of the Citie of God cap. 8. I cite the booke because they might reade them and to the intent they would cease from calling vs Idolaters seeing we doe it after the example of all these holy and wise Doctors with whom these new Doctors deserue not to be compared In the yeare two hundred and twentie when Doctor Origen prayed vnto the holy Prophet Iob was he an Idolater In the yeare three hundred and sixtie when S. Gregory Nazaanze●us prayed vnto S. Basil in the Oration which he made for him was he an Idolater At that time as S. Basil cryed to the 40. Martyrs when S. Hierome recommended himselfe to the prayers of the holy Lady Paula and likewise S. Austin to those of the Virgin Maries were all these excellent and learned men Idolaters I beleeue no. Why then should these new Reformers or rather deformers of the Church call vs Idolaters seeing we do the same after all these holy Doctors But there is one thing you will tell me which troubleth much these Heretikes that is that they cannot vnderstand nor imagine that the Saints can heare vs affirming it is impossible that a man which is praying vpon the earth can be heard of them into Heauen Behold this is the second point which in the beginning of this Epistle we haue propounded let vs now come to examine it Know then that the Ministers and Preachers among some of their arguments which in them I haue noted and in their writings this of all other they esteeme the most strongest and that which they most set by Their Captaine Caluin in the third booke of his Institutions Chap. 20. sect 24. thinking to alledge some rare and new-found thing against vs setteth downe one thing which is most ridiculous and vnmeete I say not of a Doctour in Diuinitie but euen for a simple Scholar discoursing in this manner Who hath reueiled to vs saith he that they haue eares so long as to reach downe vnto our words and eyes so sharp that they can consider of our necessities By these words he would say that the Saints to vnderstand our prayers ought not only to haue both eyes and eares as they had vpon the earth but besides that they must haue long eares and great eyes which should penetrate downe vnto the earth Wherin this good Doctour shewes that he hath failed as well in Philosophie as in Diuinitie and that he himselfe neuer had either eyes or eares in his soule to know the truth It was pitie that he had not spoke this in some of the ancient Philosophers Schoole how had he bene mocked For what a folly or what an ignorance is it to thinke that Soules being separated from their bodies cannot vnderstand without the instruments of the bodie Men neuer yet found Philosophie which acknowledgeth not euen by naturall light only that the soule being freed from the body knoweth more yea better and much more easily then when it was within the bodie Therefore to account that one should haue long eares to heare the better it is to bring Asses eares into great request And if so be that all Asses could speake as well as that Asse which was the false Prophet Balaams I beleeue they would confesse that the length of their eares makes them neuer a whit the quicker of hearing but would say that such as thinke it so are greater Asses then themselues So then this great Doctor Master Caluin hath abused himselfe in his doctrine And since his time his and Luthers schollers to shew themselues wiser then their Masters haue begun to require of the Catholiques some expresse texts and examples taken out of the holy Bible whereby it might appeare that the Saints which are aboue in Paradise can vnderstand and heare our prayers But he that will answere them well should demaund also of them because they referre the deciding of euery question to the Scripture some certaine places and texts by which the contrarie might appeare to wit that the Saints cannot heare our prayers and were not this enough would they not be confounded and ouerthrowne yes vndoubtedly for they could neuer be able to produce so much as one onely text either out of the old or new Testament let them reade ouer the Bible as oft as they list and this were an excellent way to conuict them by answering them in this maner But to the end they should not thinke that we would vse shifts as they do in this point and in all other occurrences rather then by giuing a good answere we will shew them that the Scripture faileth vs not in this point and that it maketh for vs seeing they will haue it so Note then how this is one expresse text

thinke that the Saints and those which are in the kingdome of heauen see not or know not what wee doe vpon the earth Poore Diuine that thou art which vnderstands not yet that which the holy Scripture teacheth vs so cleerly in many places that the zeale and charitie to the glorie of God and the desire of our neighbours saluation are vertues proper in the fourth degree as in schooles they teach it only to the elect and children of God and are neuer found in the damned after this life which are sworne enemies against God and the children of his kingdome If then the reprobate are without charity and are glad to see many companions of their distresses as some of your new Doctors confesse what a stupiditie is it then in you not to consider that Christ as alreadie we haue touched attributeth to the rich Glutton the care of his brethren by a parable or similitude as also the speech of a liuing man vsing his tongue and other members of his bodie which neuerthelesse was separated by buriall from the soule cast downe into h●ll I am much more astonied because that Saint Austin whom as it seemeth by your writing you haue read saith expressely of the rich Glutton that albeit he prayed Abraham to send Lazarus vnto his brethren yet hee knew not what his brethren did nor what did then happen to them But to beate you with your owne rod you present vs a proofe that the Saints which are in heauen see vs because they behold God who seeth all things From whence I argue by the contrarie that forasmuch as the damned which are cast into vtter darknesse see not the brightnesse of the face of God therefore they see not a iot nor haue any knowledge of our affaires Afterward you stirre the pot about and fall againe into your beginning holding as an article worthie of beleefe that which you haue not proued nor euer can prooue by holy Scripture to wit that the Saints and all blessed soules departed this life know the things of this world and thereupon you build your argument which is called in Schooles From the lesse to the greater If the departed Saints know all things in this world must they not much more know and heare the prayers which men make vnto them Againe If they can vnderstand and heare the voyce of the d●mned is it possible that they should not vnderstand the prayers of such as are desirous to be saued Beside if the damned themselues as appeareth by the storie of the rich Glutton would procure that there happen no euill to their brethren and friends will those which are saued be lesse charitable will they not aduance as much as they can the saluation of their friends and Christian brethren and that so much the more because they see and heare that men doe seeke vnto them for it To speake properly your first argument is no argument but a troublesome repetition of the principij that is to say of the principall question which needeth a proofe of better stuffe then as yet you haue offered to satisfie vs withall The others depend on the former and haue been refuted alreadie I will then goe on with the course of your Treatise and aduertise you that neither hee to whom you haue written your Epistle not they vnto whom he hath communicated it to be read and examined doe giue any beleefe to your false affirmations that the Christians are commanded to inuocate the Saints departed or that they doe heare their prayers Hereupon you propound this question how the Saints can heare vs and you acknowledge that to say the truth this is a hard question to be resolued but neuerthelesse that your doctrine is true To this point you produce that which S. Austin writeth thereof in his Treatise De cura pro mortuis gerenda cap. 16. In truth saith S. Austin this question surpasseth the force of my vnderstanding being vnable to comprehend how and in what manner the Martyrs helpe those which we certainly know to be helped by them I will here briefly repeate that which heretofore I haue shewne to wit how this sentence of S. Austins is contrarie to those which I haue gathered out of his writings into which some since his departure haue maliciously sowne many tares and wicked seed which is the cause that wee hold this passage in suspition And though it were S. Austins yet are we not bound to receiue it seeing it is contrarie to the holy Scripture But to refute you by that very booke which you attribute to S. Austin answereth not he himself to this question whether the Saints departed intermeddle with our affaires that hee is of an opinion they doe not Doth he not reason in the same manner as we haue reasoned afore to shew that his opinion is grounded in the holy Scriptures I will here recite his owne words to the end the moderate reader may iudge of them Let euery man take saith Austin as he will what I shall speake If the soules of the departed were present in the businesses of the liuing and so that we should see them they would speake to vs in dreames to say nothing of others my good mother then would not leaue me one night alone who for to liue with me hath followed me by sea and land But that which is sung in the Psalme is true My father and my mother haue forsaken mee but the Lord hath receiued me If then our fathers haue left vs how can they meddle with our affaires and if our fathers and mothers be not present in them what others of the dead are there which know the things that we doe and that which we suffer The Prophet Esay saith Thou art our father for Abraham is ignorant of vs and Israel hath not knowne vs. If these Patriarchs were ignorant of that which this people did precreated from them how can the dead busie themselues to succour the liuing in their actions and affaires and how could we say it were well with those which are departed this world before the euils which followed their death had happened if after their death they should likewise feele the things which come to passe in the calamities of humane life or else wee should speake these things erroneously and should we hold those to be in rest which are in paine because of their suruiuers which haue no repose in this life What is that then which God promised to holy King Iosiah as a great blessing that he would take him to himselfe by death that hee might not see the euils which hee threatned the people Behold saith the Lord I will gather thee to thy Fathers and thou shalt be put in thy graue in peace and thine eyes shall not see all the euill which I will bring vpon this place and vpon the inhabitants of the same The spirits then of the deceased are in that place where they see not the things which are done