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A90976 The sun out-shining the moon, or, Righteousness excelling rottennness in answer to a lying scandalous paper, published by John Moone, entituled, The true light hath made manifest darknesse, &c. : but it is darkness put forth for light, as it will appear by that which followeth / and is published by John Price. Price, John, Welsh clergyman.; Bownd, William. Brief discovery of the the erroneous tenets of those who are distinguished from other men by the name of Quakers. 1658 (1658) Wing P3353; ESTC R43721 30,935 58

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is false for answer was made in plainnesse to the satisfaction of many though thou could not receive it being full and rich in thy own conceit and so was sent empty away and after the truth was cleared to the satisfaction of many people the Messenger of the Lord passed away and then hearing thee Bownd incensing the people with lies he came up again and then was something spoken concerning the Soul but not before he passed down as thou in thy Paper falsely asserts and the Soul was said to be pure which thou Bownd who knows not the Soul denied But the truth shall stand for ever and over the deceipt Reign and that in the conscience shall answer it and witnesse to it And thou Bownd saith in thy lying Paper That before he to wit Alexander Parker went down thou stated thy question Dost thou own a humane Soul which is to be redeemed besides c. This is false and a lie thou didst not mention any such question before he spake of the Souls redemption and so thou liar art for the lake Several other things there is in thy Paper which truely are not worth the rapping up nor mentioning by a sober Christian which stuffe I do return back into the old Bottle again from whence it came and the same Testimony that I gave of the Soul I give the same still that the Soul is pretious and pure witnessed though not comprehended by the dark wisedom of m●n for it was then declared that he spake what he knew and not by hear-say but what he witnessed by the living Power of God which was made manifest whereby he came to know the Soul and its Redemption and purity and none else knows it but those who witnesse Redemption and this Testimony shall stand for ever against thee Bownd and against all the Opposers of the truth my Soul is pure and pretious and they who live in sin are Enemies to their own Souls for the fleshly lusts warreth against the Soul the Enemy may destroy the body but cannot kill the Soul Be thou therefore awarned and repent of thy lies Bownd and speak not evil of that which thou knowest not whiles it is called to day harden not thy heart thou knowest not how soon thy soul may be required of thee This is in love to thy Soul which I love but for ever I shall stand a witnesse against thy lies and that which warres against the Soul And this Testimony without daubing or equivocating as thou falsly accuses of I shall really with my blood against thee Bownd and all thy partakers who are warring against the truth and all dear Friends who are convinced of the living and Eternal truth and have seen the deceipt and the emptinesse of all Professions formal that stands in the will of man where there is no satisfaction to the hungry thirsty Soul but as Swine feeding upon the Hurkes in that which discovered all these things do you abide and keep your habitations and dwellings in the measure of God waiting for his Power to purifie and cleanse and purge out the old learn that the Soul which is living you may witnesse to praise the living for the dead praise not God it is the living the living that praises God to whom all praise belongs for evermore Let this be truely Copied over and sent abroad and keep a true Copy of it From him who loves the Souls of all people but hates their sin Whose name in the Flesh is ALEXANDER PARKER But hath a new name written in the Book of life which none can read but he that hath it HEre I shall desire the understanding Reader for to take notice of the foregoing discourse and also of Parkers reply how he falls to contend and wrangle about the time and place but answereth not one word to the matter then in hand viz. as before he went down and after he came up or where he stood when he spake the words This was not material with me Although I had truely and rightly laid down the Passages of it as I could instance many that were witnesses of the same but I shall forbear because in so doing I should seem to be so frivolous as he himself Hath not this man manifested his own folly in putting Pen to Paper and writing so many Lines and sending them many miles and yet answereth not one word unto the thing I charged him with And whether the manner of it or the matter of it was the more worthy of being mentioned or replied unto I shall leave the impartial Reader to judge But onely I shall here demand of Parker this one thing yet once agains Whose Soul was that which he endeavoured to prove to be pure by that Scripture Gen. 2.7 And if it was his own Soul as he afterwards did say Whether he had forgotten that he came out of the loines of his old Father Adam But as the Tree is known by its Fruit so is the stumpe known by the Branches but in its due place I shall follow these Branches unto the stumpe and so discover the very rottennesse of its Rootes THe greatest cause of my Relating of this Discourse and bringing these few Lines into such a publicke view is because John Moone in his lying Book entituled The true Light hath made manifest darknesse hath cast false aspersions and lying accusations upon the Saints in Wales beginning with Hugh Evans who is now ceased from his labours I being one that was very well acquainted with his Doctrine life and conversation and the certainty I have of those sweet Divine Spiritual and Eternal enjoyments that his Soul hath had and hath and shall enjoy to Eternity out of the mortal body doth remove much grief and sadnesse from my Spirit in consideration of his absence in the body I also having a discovery of the lying and equivocating of John Moone and Alexander Parker and others that tread in their erronious steps therefore I am engaged to manifest some of it to the end that the tongues of publicke known liars may not easily passe their false aspersions and that truth and Justice may take place and that falshood and all false dealers may be found and taken in their own snares and wounded with their own Weapons Although I acknowledge my self the weakest amongst many yet seeing the uncircumcised rejoyce and Goliah standing vapouring in the field viz. John Moone with his lying Book desying Israel I am emboldened to presse into the Battail for who is this uncircumcised Philistine that he should defie the Armies of the living God I being both an eye and an ear-witnesse unto that Discourse between John Price and John Moone where John Moone falsly in his Book accuseth John Price in saying that he said There was three wayes This is false and therefore this is one cause Why I publish John Moone for a known lyer for the Discourse was grounded upon three distinct things viz. God Man and Devil Whereupon John Moone Denied one of
meeting in the Parish of Llauvr in Raduorshire where Hugh Evans was exercising his Gifts to the edifying and building up of his Brethren in the Faith and fear of the Lord and in his exercise he said to this effect That there is a threefold nature in the people of God The Divine Nature The Humane Nature And the Serpentine Nature The seed of the Serpent under the feet of the seed of the Woman the seed of the Serpent bruising the heele but the seed of the Woman bruising the head then one John David a Quaker so distinguished from other men spake to this effect or these very words I deny thy third there is but two stop thy mouth the Plagues and Judgements of God is thy portion and with many presumptuous words in the name of the Lord he railed much against us and so began to teach the people and held forth that there is but two things light and darknesse God and the Devil the seed of the Woman and the seed of the Serpent and many things to that purpose After him John Moone began his Lesson but Hugh Evans made some reply to this effect That if it was so as they said that there is but two things light and darknesse God and the Devil the seed of the Woman and the seed of the Serpent then what is that which is to be saved or to be damned for it is impossible for the seed of the Serpent to be saved nor for the seed of the Woman to be Eternally damned But John David did give no sound answer and I believe that all rational men will say that he could not Then this question was by us propounded to John Moone but his answer was no better then the other Whereupon the said John Moone stared in Hugh Evans his eyes and asked him many questions though they themselves cry out against others for asking of questions some of them I can yet remember The first question he asked him was this Art thou come to the beginning He answered I am come to the beginning and the end Christ Jesus Again he asked him Hast thou eaten of the Tree of Life He said He had Then John Moone said How comest thou there Thou knowest what the sword of the Cherubin is Hugh Evans said It is the anger of God Then he asked What the Soul was Upon that I desired Hugh Evans not to answer him knowing them to be but the Cavillers questions Then John Moon said to the people This man who is your Teacher knoweth not what the soul is Then Hugh Evans said Answer not a Fool according to his folly lest thou be like him yet answer a Fool according to his folly lest he be wise in his own conceit And so Hugh Evans stood up and read this Scripture And God breathed into man the breath of life and man became a living soul and so gave the people a Description of the soul of man And after he had done some that were there desired John Moone to gainsay if he could what Hugh Evans had said concerning the soul but he did not much confused discourse hath been that day which cannot be repeated neither is it worth the repeating At another time there was a meeting of theirs at a place called Yscwriw to which meeting Hugh Evans and others went and he accused them of denying the Resurrection and desired time and silence to prove it but could not have it but much bruitish and unreasonable Behaviour shortly after I sent these ensuing queries to John Moone First Whether God and man was not two distinct things after he had created him Secondly Whether man onely did not sall from that peaceable estate which God had created and stared him in and no part of God fell with him or in him Thirdly Whether that formed creature man or that body which God created in the beginning did not become mertal and must die the natural death Fourthly Whether that body or the bodies of all men shall not at the last day or at the dissolution of this world and all Creatures be raised up out of the Earth and receive a just Sentence These queries he did take upon him to answer But I will leave it to the Reader to judge what manner of answer it is Their answer with their queries are as followeth John Price I having received thy Paper wherein thou seekest to put a Cloak on thy errors which Paper I am made free to answer for the innocent sake and not to satisfie thy busy mind First Whereas thou broughtest the Scripture in Nehene 7.5 64. to be a Cloak for thy error and covetousnesse but the Scripture doth declare against all errors and covetousnesse wherein thou art shut out of the Scriptures and art a stranger to the life of God which gave forth the Scriptures living in thy Ignorance and covetousnesse wresting the Scriptures to thy own destruction Answer It is not for that word Register that I charged thee withall for the word in its place I own But for that thou dost follow the way of Balaam who loved the wages of unrighteousnesse but was rebuked for his Iniquity and so I rebuke thee and whereas thou hast confusedly written in thy Paper concerning Justice of the Peace and naming no man yet for truth sake I answer All that are true Ministers of God and Magistrates I own and all that are just and do justice is more acceptable to the Lord then sacrifice and all that acts for the punishment of the Evil-doers and the praise of them that do well For so is the will of God that with well-doing we may put to silence the Ignorant and the Foolish men And herein is our Father glorified and the Enemies of God discovered and all them that acts not according to that which is just I deny An Answer to thy queries First Query Whether God and man was two distinct things after he had created him Answer The Lord God is Eternal and endures for ever and he formed man of the dust of the Earth which is Carnal The second Query Whether man onely did not fall from that peaceable estate which God had created and stated him in and no part of God fell with him or in him Answer It was man onely that brake the Command of God as by one man sin entered into the world and death by sin so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned herein I deny that that which is of God should fall into sin or Iniquity The third Query Whether that formed Creature man or that body which God Created in the beginning did not become mortal and must die the natural death Answer All flesh shall perish and man shall return to the dust from whence he was taken The fourth Query Whether that body or the bodies of all men shall not at the last day or at the dissolution of this world and all Creatures be raised up out of the Earth and receive a just Sentence Answer All
their poisoned Cups notwithstanding you have soon learned that same Lesson of opposing railing cursing and condemning of all those that tread not in your foot-steps because they are not taken with those fancies that you have fixed in your own braines although thousands of them are more Heavenly and Spiritual then you your selves Also you use your uttermost endeavours to make the Saints names odious in the sight of others By these and other meanes you have caused the blind to go out of the way and the seeking Souls to look back have you not also quit and sold all your reading your meditating and your earnest seeking of God for railing and frivolous contending about you know not what yea about a false Doctrine that was never found in the Rowles of God's Divine Court and never owned nor confirmed by his dear and onely Son nor published by his Holy Spirit which is to say That all mens Souls are either God or one with God and cannot be defiled with sin nor condemned for sin and that all the Plagues and woes that are pronounced are but against the external or outward part of man the which shall be done away Here I have briefly out of love and not in opposition unto any but onely unto the man of sin given you a discovery of the snare that is secretly layed before your Souls but if you will shut your eyes and stop your eares and so wilfully remain blind your blood shall be upon your own heads and I shall here wash my hands from the guilt of your erronious revolt Now unto you the Cainish Cathedral Stone-church Priests and Tithe-mongers and new upstart Hirelings you are all for what you can hear said against any that in any measure do oppose you in your function Although I have put my hand to the publish of the discovery of some men's Errors think not that I shal put my least finger to the maintaining of yours you are all for the back and belly and for your own glory if you had but wherewith to attain it some of you have been for these many years daunted with the fear of your own ruine yet you usually rejoyce to hear that any are cryed down besides your selves Let the sight and feeling of your own covetous carnal corrupt mindes stop your mouths Let your proud and haughty hearts become meek and lowly Let your confounded Languages become silent And let your Babel-building cease Let your own eloquence and Scholasticke wisedom become foolishnesse So that you may be wise Let those that stole steal no more Let shame cover your faces and let your glory fall to the dust Let God arise and let all flesh be silent before the Lord. Your dumb Ministry is fruitlesse and your words are empty vain and pithlesse and shall not profit the people saith the Lord. Your Spirits are benummed by your unlawful gain and you and your Souls are become Servants and Slaves unto the unrighteous Mammon Your calling is by a mortal and inferiour Power and your places have you purchased with your corrupt Silver Your strength is in the Arm of flesh Your Authority is of mortal men And they that authorize you are like unto you The Lord God hath a controversy against you and you are all abuilding of a confounded tottering Tower that shall shortly fall upon your own heads Now unto you blind-folded worldlings and prodigal proud stone-Kirke Members the Devil hath found you a Toy to play withall in these dayes those seldom times that you come under the means of grace true Preaching of the word whereby you in being attentive diligent to hear might have a right and true salve applied unto your wounded and corrupted Souls But instead of so doing your wanton scoffing minds are then by your Driver fitted for another design you slight all that is said concerning your own dangerous sinful slavish condition and you also are all for what you can hear is said in opposition against others And thus you idlely and vainly wear out your few dear-bought dayes and spend them in fulfilling of your own false wills The minor Party you scoffe and jear at and all that they maintain be it true or false The Major party and their sayings you brag and boast be it right or wrong Your opposing of the one Party is more out of the bitternesse of your Spirits against the truths they sometimes speak of then out of any sensible knowledge that you have of the Errors they maintain And the other Party that you sometimes vainly prate for it is out of your partiality and outward respect you have to their persons or rather would be respected by them more then out of any love you have to any truth that they hold forth for you know not truth from falshood neither can you discern between Errors and found Doctrine because you have forsaken the God that created you and ye know not your Redeemer your hearts are made fat your eyes are shut and your ears are stopped you see but discern not you hear but do not understand Isai 6.20 You sleight the meanes of grace and you know not the day of your Visitation Your terriblenesse and the pride of your hearts hath deceived you O you that dwell in the clefts of the Rocks and proudly walk upon the high Hills and make your nests as high as the Eagle or amongst the Stars yet I will bring you down saith the Lord. Jer. 49 20. Obad. 4. You forsake the Paths of uprightnesse to walk in the wayes of darknesse you rejoyce to do evil and delight in the frowardnesse of the wicked Woe be unto you that call good evil and evil good that put darknesse for light and light for darknesse that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes prudent in their own sight Woe unto them that are mighty to drink Wine and men of strength to mingle strong drink which justifie the wicked for reward and take away the righteousnesse of the Righteous from him therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble and the flame consumeth the chaffe so their Root shall be rottennesse and their Blossome shall go up as dust because they have cast away the Law of the Lord of Hosts and despised the word of the Holy one of Israel Isai 5.20 21 22 23 24. O Poor wretched and miserable men let this be told you that your temporal joy is the producing of your Eternal woe and sorrow and that the time draweth near when your laughter shall be turned into weeping and your joy into heavinesse and you shall be deprived of all your temporal enjoyments and the object of your foolish mirth and youthfull rejoycing shall be done away and then sorrow and grief will approach unto you and horror and anguish will seize upon you and you will be found naked and void of the Wedding-Garment and be bound hand and foot and cast into utter darknesse there shall be weeping and gnashing of Teeth Now unto you carnal Professors and meer lip-labourers that draw near unto God with your mouths and honour him with your lips but your hearts are far from him You have learned to talk of a God and Godlinesse but the onely true God and the Power of Godlinesse you know not your chiefest Treasure is transitory and the object of your joy is but for a moment your Webs shall not become Garments neither shall you cover your selves with your works your works are the works of Iniquity and the Act of violence is in your hands the way of peace you know not and there is no Judgement in your goings you have made unto you crooked Paths whosoever goeth therein shall not know Peace Woe be unto you that are at ease in Zion yea you that have put your hands to the Plow and are looking back therefore you are not fit for the Kingdom of God Amos 6.1 Luk. 9 62. You sow the wind and reap the whirl-wind you conceive chaffe and bring forth stubble your words are empty your Wombs are barren and your brests are dry Your building is founded upon the Sands you are a fruitlesse Vineyard Isai 5.2 Bearing sowre Grapes you are Clouds without Water carried about with winds dry Branches Trees whose Fruit withereth without Fruit twice dead pluckt up by the Roots Jude 12. O blind naked and miserable men let this be told you that the work of regeneration and the new birth is an earnest work and that it requireth very much careful watching and continual striving Luk. 13 24. Marke 13.33 35. And earnest pressing to be brought forth out of the corrupt something into the pure nothing which is all in all Now unto the despised seeking Souls who earnestly seek the Lord in truth in sailing over this Ocean of misery your Ship hath been grievously toffed by many a raging Wave and by side-winds have been cast near many dangerous Gulfs yet during the time of these storms and tempests by great providence and unspeakable mercies you cast forth your Anchors upon a sure Rock and when the calm cometh so that you take a view of those dangers that you have escaped and rejoyce yet you ascribe not the glory of your deliverance unto your selves but earnestly make toward the promised Land notwithstanding you mourn over those that are over-turned yet your mourning shall be turned into joy your building is founded upon the Rock your Treasure is not corrupt You have a building of God an house not made with hands Eternal in the Heavens No Lion shall be there nor any Ravenous Beasts shall go up thereon it shall not be found there but the Redeemed shall walk there And the Ransomed of the Lord shall return and come to Zion with Songs and everlasting joy upon their heads and they shall obtain joy and gladnesse and sorrow and sighing shall flee away With whom I desire to commune and associate continually who am your Friend and Fellow-traveller WILLIAM BOWND FINIS Printed at LONDON And are to be sold by Daniel White at the seven Stars in Pauls-Church-Yard 1658.