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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78447	The censures of the church revived. In the defence of a short paper published by the first classis within the province of Lancaster ... but since printed without their privity or consent, after it had been assaulted by some gentlemen and others within their bounds ... under the title of Ex-communicatio excommunicata, or a Censure of the presbyterian censures and proceedings, in the classis at Manchester. Wherein 1. The dangerousness of admitting moderate episcopacy is shewed. ... 6. The presbyterian government vindicated from severall aspersions cast upon it, ... In three full answers ... Together with a full narrative, of the occasion and grounds, of publishing in the congregations, the above mentioned short paper, and of the whole proceedings since, from first to last.	Harrison, John, 1613?-1670.; Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.	1659 (1659)	Wing C1669; Thomason E980_22; ESTC R207784	289,546	380

the Sacraments as Hierome doth often confess yet in Government by ancient use of Speech he is onely called a Bishop which is in the Scripture called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Rom. 12. 8. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Heb. 13. 17. However it is not reasonable that we should be obliged to own every expression here used by this reverend Author who is produced by you as an Adversary to us in the matter in Controversie yet here we desire that it might be observed 1. That he onely saith for Order and seemly Government there was alwaies one Principall to whom by long use of the Church the name of Bishop or superintendent hath been applyed By which words he seems clearly to intimate that that superiority which a Bishop had above the rest of the Clergy or Presbyters was but an Ecclesiasticall Constitution onely in that he ascribes it to Order and Decency 2. He makes a Bishop and an Elder in Scripture to be but of one Order and Autority in preaching the Word and Administration of the Sacraments as he saith Hierom doth often confess all which you leaving out do obscure Doctor Fulk's meaning For he asserting a Bishop and an Elder in Scripture to be but of one Order and Authority in preaching the Word and attributing the difference that is betwixt them in regard of Government to the ancient use of Speech sc That he onely is called a Bishop which is in Scripture called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. citing the Texts above mentioned doth intimate a quite different sense to what you alledge him for For he doth not say that the Scripture in these Texts called the Bishop onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for which purpose you alledge him but that by ancient use of Speech which might be different from the use of Scripture and as in this particular it was he is called a Bishop which is in Scripture called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. By which we doubt not it is clear to the judicious Reader that Doctor Fulk is not in the number of those many that you say apply these Texts to the Bishops onely taking the word Bishops as you take them We have now done with that you have produced here to satisfie us touching Lay-Elders as you call them that they are not meant nor mentioned in those Texts by us alledged which you undertook with some confidence but have as unsatisfactorily performed as we think ever any did that did attempt a matter of this nature Yet you now proceed hereupon to make your inference That therefore it can be no betraying the truth of Christ to part with the ruling Elders if we will seriously weigh it in the Ballance of impartiall and unprejudicate reason which yet you have not produced that might with any shew be sufficient to satisfie the Conscience either of us or any other men and to take in the other i. e. the Bishops which you say would be but a strengthning and a backing of it though we see not how And now you fall upon exhorting and beseeching us in the name of God which we hope is dear unto us and in the tender Bowels of Jesus Christ for whom we are willing to suffer the loss of all things and to whom we profess to owe our selves and whatever we are or can do as unto the Lord that bought us and to whom we must be faithfull as being his Stewards not to stand upon circumstantials though the ruling Elder whom you exhort us to part with is not a meer circumstantiall matter he being a Member of Christs Organicall Body and an Officer appointed by him in his Church as hath been already shewed or private interests which we see not how is any way advanced by our pleading for the ruling Elder but to apply our selves to the way of conjuncture and reconcilement of many poor Christian Soules whose Welfare we have reason to tender as we hope we do propounded by you and called by you happy though as we have shewed apprehended by us to be both dangerous and indeed destructive unto Union and asserted by you to be a way of reconcilement of them in truth love and peace and which if we could discern we should upon that account embrace with all our hearts we having already professed enough for peace and whether our Professions and Hearts do not go together is known to the Searcher of the Hearts and Reins as our earnest contending for the truth is that which hinders some men from being at peace with us But after you have propounded the tearms of reconciliation which you beseech and beg of us againe and againe to accept of though we should not need to be so earnestly intreated if they were safely to be admitted of you come to urge some Fruits that would ensue upon our hearkning to your motion And here we shall not deny but the blessing that might redound to all parties in a just way of reconciliation would be unconceivable as it is that we shall be ready to lay out our selves to our utmost for as we see there is any hope or probability to attain it We do also confess that the lives and manners of dissolute persons and how many there are amongst your selves of that sort you say you are but to too conscious as we do earnestly pray that both you and we may be so sensible thereof as that we may more truly and deeply lay it to heart may by a true loving accord which yet is to be in the way of truth with brotherly admonition and exhortation be reclaimed and in which way their reformation is most desirable or by due censures corrected and amended we not being willing that such sharp Physick should be applyed for any other end But here we cannot but express our feares least there be some amongst us and we heartily wish that you be not found in the number that are of that temper that whatever might be the fruit of brotherly admonition and Church censures and of reconciliation and union amongst all Parties and hereof you profess to be desirous they are resolved to be reconciled in no other way then upon admittance of Episcopacy and casting out of the ruling Elder But with those that are of this stamp we have no hopes of any cordiall Union till God alter their Judgments and change their hearts But whereas to perswade us to accept of the tearms of Union by you propounded you now do further add and say That amongst our selves also many who returning to their Canonical Obedience which they have sworn to may blot out the charge of Schisme that lies upon them and the Church of God be continued amongst us from age to age to the end of the world in a succession of a lawfully ordained Ministry We are far from being convinced by these Argument and must take the liberty to speak to them particularly and fully that so we may wipe off the Aspersions that thereby

of our Presbyterian discipline c. Unto which we say That we have constantly professed against those of the separation That the several Assemblies or Congregations within this Land that make a profession of the true Christian and Apostolique Faith are true Churches of Jesus Christ That the several members of these Congregations are by their birth members as those that were born in the Jewish Church are said to be by the Apostle Jewes by nature Gal. 2. That this their membership was sealed to them in their Baptism that did solemnly admit them as into the universal Church so into the particular wherein they were born We have also constantly maintained against the afore-mentioned Persons That the Ministers of these Churches are true Ministers notwithstanding that exception of theirs against them that they were ordained by Bishops who also themselves were true Ministers in our Judgement though we cannot acknowledge that by divine right they were superiour to their fellow brethren either in regard of order or jurisdiction And that therefore the Word and Sacraments the most essential marks of a true visible Church according to the professed Judgement of our Divines against the Papists on the one hand and those of the separation on the other dispensed by these Vinisters were and are the true Ordinances of Jesus Christ And that hereupon our work was not when the Presbyterian Government was appointed to constitute Churches but to reform them onely And that therefore none within our bounds except they shall renounce Christianity and their Baptisme can be deemed by us to be without in the Apostles sense and so therefore not within the compass and verge of our Presbyterian Government Neither is it their not associating with us in regard of Government that doth exempt them from censure by it if they should be such offenders as by the rules thereof were justly censurable It not being a matter arbitrary for private Persons at their own will and pleasure to exempt themselves from under that Ecclesiastical Government that is settled by Authority And as you know it would not have been allowed of under the former Government 2 And therefore whether you and all others within our bounds be not comprehended within our Government according to the rules laid down in the Ordinance of Parliament above mentioned appointing the form of Church Government to be used in the Church of England and Ireland and therein ordaining as hath been recited before in the first page thereof and to which we referre you Especially considering that all within the bounds of our several Parishes that are no other now then formerly even Papists and Anabaptists and other Sectaries were under the late Prelatical Government we leave it to you to judge Onely if so we wish you to consider that then you are brought under the Government of Presbytery not so much by us as by the Parliament appointing this Government And then we think you who warn us not to contemn civil power might well out of respect to the Authority ordaining it but especially considering the word Presbytery is a known Scripture expression 1 Tim. 4 and interpreted by sundry of the Fathers as we do as hath been declared before have used a more civil expression then to have called it a common fold into which it should seem your complains it that you should be driven Although Presbytery layes restraint on none but such as being scandalous in their lives and so contemning the Laws of God are therefore truly and indeed the lawless Persons that we speak of But whereas as you suppose This is our chief design in this as in other transactions of ours to subject all to our Government We doe refer our selves to our course of life past and hope it will witnesse with us to all that will judge impartially what our designes have been in our other transactions And as touching our design in the Paper published whether it hath been ought but the information of the ignorant and reformation of the scandalous to the Glory of God and their salvation we leave it to be judged by those that will judge of mens intentions by what is expressed in their words and actions We know very well we are charged by some that we affect Dominion to Lord it over the People and to have all sorts of Persons of what rank soever to stoop to us But we do openly professe that the Government of the Church that is committed unto men is not Despotical but Ministerial That it is no Dominion but a Ministery onely And that the Officers that are intrusted with it are themselves to be subject both in regard of their bodies and estates to the Civil power That by the Ordinance of God they are appointed to be under and that in their Government they have nothing to do with the bodies and estates of any Persons but with their Souls onely Although here we desire to enquire of you whether if you be indeed for the settling of any Government at all in the Church as you professe to be you do not think that all should be subject to it We cannot judge you to be so irrational as to be for a Government and that yet subiection to it must be denyed And if the late Government of the Prelacy was not blamed by you because it required subjection to it we wish you to consider whether upon this account you have reason to censure us But further whereas you tell us That we garnish over our Government with the specious title of Christs Government Throne and Scepter We wish you to consider what in your Answer to an objection that you frame out of our Paper your selves doe say You there tell us You pray for the establishment of such Church Government as is consonant to the will of God and universal practice of primitive Churches that Ecclesiastical Discipline may be exercised in the hands of them to whom it was committed by Christ and left by him to be transferred from hand to hand to the end of the World The expressions you here use are as high touching that Government you would have established as any have been that ever we have used of ours For your prayer is That Ecclesiastical Discipline may be exercised in the hands of them to whom it was committed by Christ and left by him to be transferred from hand to hand to the end of the world The Government then that you are for must be with you Christs Government Throne and Scepter And why do you then condemn us if we have used such expressions concerning our Government till you have convinced us that it is not such When yet you take to your selves the liberty to use the like language concerning the Government you pray may be established But where as you say Presbytery is the main thing driven at here and that however she comes ushered in with a Godly pretence of sorrow for the sins and the ignorance of the times and the duty incumbent upon us

Apostles in the Synod at Jerusalem and the Fathers of the Nicene Council and others we instanced in to endeavour their conviction in the due use of all good meanes before there was a process to excommunication We remembred also how quick the Prelates were in thundering out their excommunications against such as though godly and religious were in those times accounted by them to be schismatical and we thought it requisite to bear witness against those manner of proceedings But of this you take no notice and we do not much wonder for we see you count all those that severed themselves from the Bishops schismatical and may be if they had power again in their hands you did not much matter though you are willing the scandalous should be admonished before if all these for their great schisme in your esteem were forthwith excommunicated Thirdly As touching publick Catechizing we said we heartily wished it had been more generally practised in our own Church at home as it is practised by the reformed Churches abroad But by our own Church we meant the Church of England as it is a national Church and in which though Catechizing was enjoyned in former times yet it was neither so generally and constantly practised as it should have been else we should not have had so much cause to have complained of the gross ignorance of so many aged persons in our Congregations who were nor trained up under the Presbyterian but Prelatical Government as now we have And here we observe that when you profess you are glad to hear us so heartily wish that Catechizing had been more generally practised it is but that you may take occasion to affix the greater blot upon us for you would have it to be our Churches in whom this neglect is chiefly or only to be found and it is we that are again by you charged with separation that have by our pretended reformation as you are pleased to speak destroyed this practice We wish as heartily in this case as we did in the other that you may be sensible how prone you are to revile and slander and pray to God that it may not be laid to your charge But you might have remembred that as we professed our selves to be for publick Catechizing which blessed be God is practised in our Churches though you would make the world to believe that we had destroyed it so we professed to be for private too that so such as were not like in regard of age or timorousness to be brought to instruction by the publick might yet by the private gain some knowledge In the Paper also that was published in the Congregations there was some order appointed for the better and more convenient practice of it And doubtless by how much we were willing to be at the more pains for the information of the ignorant the greater fault will lie at your doores and be charged upon you if you repent not of it that by your opposition you have not only laboured to obstruct the good courses by us propounded for the help of poor ignorant souls but accused us also that by our pretended reformation we have destroyed Catechizing Here also we take notice that however in your first Paper you had a proviso touching Catechizing that it be publick and that we thereupon gave you some reason though briefly for private Catechizing yet this you wholly pass over in silence and say nothing to it thus you pretend to make a reply to our answer and yet but speak to what of it you please But if you had manifested any dissatisfaction touching private Catechizing we should here have proceeded to have given further reasons for it although this work is so fully done to our hands by Mr. Baxter in his Gildas Salvianus that it would have been needless unto those that have read that Book and whereunto for his further satisfaction we referre the Reader if he desire it Fourthly If we understood you aright in this that you held it not fitting that persons grosly ignorant should be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper the conclusion that we inferred hence stands good against any thing brought by you to invalidate it But here we observe you stretch it beyond its scope and that in two particulars 1. In that you would have it referre to examination before the Eldership which was not that which we spake of we only said there ought to be examination and triall of all persons before they be admitted to the Lords Supper not determining here touching the persons by whom this examination was to be made but only inferring that then there ought to be this examination that so the grosly ignorant might not be admitted as they might be if all promiscucusly were to be admitted without any triall at all and which was the reason that we alleadged in our answer for the inference we made and which still stands good you urging nothing at all to take away the strength of it It is true that the examination and judgement of all such as shall for their ignorance not be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper is to be in the power of the Eldership of every Congregation and not in the power of one Minister only by the rules of our Government But this was not the thing we there spake of we only concluded that there ought to be an examination and hoped that we had gained from your own concession this one further step toward an agreement betwixt you and us that all such persons as should be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper must be examined by some or other not determining by whom there being no way to discover the ignorant but by triall And as touching our practice it is well known that when the Eldership is sati●fied touching the knowledge of such as offer themselves to that Sacrament upon the examination of a Minister and one Elder or upon the examination of two Ministers however none is to b● debarred for their ignorance but by the juridical act of the Eldership and which is for the better securing of the Church-priveledges to the members then to have left the power to the Minister alone such are not required to be examined before the Eldership but are upon the testimony of the examiners there being nothing to be objected justly against them admitted by the authority of the Eldership 2. There is also another thing wherein you would make our inference to be that which indeed it was not for neither did we speak concerning any examination de novo of such persons as had been formerly admitted our words recited even now and to be seen in our answer do plainly speak concerning an examination before admission to the Lords Supper not concerning an examination de novo Indeed we shall neither be ashamed of nor deny what is our practice which is to take a triall of all the communicants de novo before admission of them to the Lords Supper We

Comment thereon for the better helping us to understand what was Gods will revealed there touching Church Government and Discipline but denied them to be our sure guid and further asserted the Word of God alone to be the onely rule to judge by in this or any other controversies in matters of Religion and which are the words we used in that part of our Answer to which you here reply as it is a received rule amongst Protestant Divines that the onely sure rule or guid for the interpreting of Scripture is not Fathers Councils or the practice of the Church and wherein we must further oppose you anon giving you our reasons for that also but the Scripture it self that is the onely infallible comment or sure guide or as we spake interpreter And now we leave it to the Reader to judge how true it was said by you that we seemed to submit to our Provinciall what we will hardly grant to a Generall Council But you hitherto having no otherwise then thus opposed what we had intimated to you was to be the onely rule and sole judge of controversies in matters of Religion sc the Word of God alone we shall now proceed to give you our Reasons according to what we promised for this assertion And however this pains to some may seem needless considering how full our Divines are in this point in their writings against the Papists yet we judge it necessary to say something though it be but what hath been said before that so we may neither seem to sleight any means we are obliged to use to reduce you from your errour nor neglect the souls of those that are committed to our charge in not laying before them some grounds for the better establishing them in the present truth Our Reasons then for making the Scriptures the only rule of faith and life and sole supreme judge of all controversies in matters of Religion are briefly these Argument 1. Because it is the Scripture onely or Word of God contained there that begets divine faith and full assurance in matters of Religion so as to remove all doubts and scruples and hence it is that faith is said to come by hearing Rom. 10. 17. i. e. from the sense of Scripture truely perceived and rightly understood Timothy is also said to have gained the assurance of what he had learned from the Scriptures 2 Tim. 3. 15 16. neither is there any other firm foundation whereon we can build but the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles Ephes 2. 20. and therefore it is the Scripture onely that is the sole judge of controversies removing all doubts and scruples and so determining the matters in difference touching Religion in whose sentence onely we can rest and to whose determination we must stand Argument 2. If the Scriptures must be refused as the sole and supreme judge and determiner of controversies in matters of Religion then it is because they are either imperfect and so not reaching to all cases and matters in controversie or else because they are obscure and so not sufficiently plain for the resolving of all doubts whereupon there is a necessity supposed of appeal to some other judge But the Scriptures are not imperfect for the Law and Scripture of the Old Testament is said to be perfect Psal 19. 7. And therefore there was nothing wanting in it that was necessary for the instruction of the people of God under the Old Testament in matters of Religion that concerned them to know integrum or that which is perfect being that according to the description of the Philosopher Cui nihil deest extra quod nihil eorum quae sunt ejus accipi potest i. e. that to which nothing is wanting and without which nothing of those things that belong unto it can be taken And hence it is that God did so strictly prohibit his people of old that they should not either adde any thing to or detract any thing from his Law Deut. 4. 2. and therefore much more are the Scriptures both of the Old and New Testament perfect neither is there any case in matters of Religion needfull to be resolved but the determination thereof is to be found there especially considering all Scripture is profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect throughly furnished unto all good works 2 Tim. 3. 16 17. And as the Scriptures are not to be accused of imperfection so neither of obscurity The word of God is a lamp to our feet and a light to our paths Psal 119. 105. and hereupon our only sure guid as a torch or lanthorne in the night that so we may be guided in the way we should walk and thereby be cautioned against errours on all hands The Apostle Peter also speaking of the Scripture calls it a more sure word of prophe●sie whereunto we should do well to take heed as to a light shineing in a dark place 2 Pet. 1. 19. and therefore the Scripture is sufficiently plain for the resolving of all doubts and determining of all controversies in Religion Although if in some things the Scripture be obscure yet this is no sufficient reason for the refusal of it as the sole determiner of controversies perspicuity not being of the essence and nature of a rule but certainty and authority the Laws of men being often obscure as Lawyers know and yet not thereupon ceasing to be a rule Argument 3. God is the author of Scripture all Scripture being given by inspiration from him 2 Tim. 3. 16. received by immediate divine revelation 2 Pet. 1. 21. and is the word of Christ Col. 3. 16. and therefore is the testimony and sentence of God himself the supreme Judge and therefore is to be acknowledged by all to be the only sure guid and determiner of all controversies in Religion Argument 4. Nothing is to be believed in matters of Religion and to be received as from God or to be taught in the Church but what is confirmed by the testimony of Scripture whence it was that in the old time the people were sent to the Law and to the Testimonies Isa 8. 20. Paul taught nothing but what was to be found in the Prophets and Moses Act. 26. 22. and hence it was also that the Bereans were commended for trying by the touchstone of the Scriptures what they heard from Paul Act. 17. 11. And therefore the Scriptures are the only rule and supreme Judge of all controversies in Religion Argument 5. The people of God are commanded that they turn not aside either to the right hand or to the left from that path that is chalked forth in the Scriptures for them to walk in Deut. 5. 32. and Chap. 17. 20. Josh 1. 7. and therefore the Scripture is the only sure rule in matters of Religion to which we must exactly keep and from which we must not in the least thing turn aside Many more reasons might be

the work and it is only in one way which is briefly this sc what exposition the Fathers unanimously give of any Text of Scripture that must be received and what exposiition cannot be backed with their concurrent testimony that is to be rejected and this ought to satisfie But unto this one answer doth serve the turn sc that your principle is unsound and very corrupt and which hath been already in our answer to this Section so fully evidenced that it is needless here to add any more And this for answer to what you present in this Section may be sufficient The Gentlemens Paper Sect. VII But now as to you and what followes say you and so go on mintaining your power of excommunication and the extent of it being as you pretend backt by the Authoritie of the civil Magistrate which Authoritie is taken off by severall subsequent Acts of Parliament and so your Church-Government and Church-censures are of no force upon any but such as are willingly and no longer then they are willingly subject thereto as we have shewed before The Civil Sword doth and can reach others your Ecclesiastical cannot The Act inflicts a civill punishment whether corporall or pecuniarie upon all lawless persons whether such as contemn Gods Laws or Mans and not a spirituall and therefore not censurable by you And this is a mistake of yours to think that notwithstanding the punishment inflicted upon the offender by the civill Magistrate you may for the same offence proceed to execute Church-censures also so a man may come to be punished twice for one offence which is against the Law and therefore in such Statutes as in 1 Mar. cap. 3. and 1 Eliz. cap. 12. where there is a punishment prescribed to be inflicted by the Civill Magistrate upon the transgressors of that Act and also another to be inflicted by the Church yet there is a speciall Proviso immediately follows That whatsoever person offending the premises shall for any the offences afore-recited receive punishment of the Ordinarie having testimoniall thereof under the said Ordinaries Seal shall not for the same offence eftsoon be convicted before the Justice nor in likewise receiving for the said offence punishment by the Justice he shall not receive for the said offence punishment of the Ordinary Now these latter Acts and Ordinances against drunkennesse swearing prophanation of the Sabbath c. enjoyning punishment by the Civill Magistrate only hath utterly taken off all power of excommunication And therefore our advice to you to complain to the Civill Magistrate of such lawlesse persons was not amiss because that Sword is sharper and longer then any you have or can pretend to The Animadversions of the Class upon it 1. IF we went on to maintain our power of censuring the scandalous according to what as we told you both God and the civil Authority had entrusted us with it concerned you the more to have made good what you undertook But herein you have fallen short as we have sufficiently proved by what we have said in answer to the fourth Section of this Paper whereby also we doubt not but it will appear that we are backt by the Authority of the civil Magistrate and that this Authority is not taken off by any subsequent Acts of Parliament that you have instanced in and that therefore our Church Government and censures are still of force and that it doth not depend on the voluntariness of the members of our severall Congregations being subject thereunto but upon the Parliaments appointing them to this subjection that any persons within the bounds of this Association are subject to this Government 2. We do readily grant the Civil Sword doth and can reach as those offendors against the Laws of the Lands that submit to the Churches censures so also those that are unwilling to be subject thereunto But your Argument is very inconsequent when you would inferre that the Act or Acts of Parliament inflict a civil punishment whether corporall or pecuniary upon all lawless persons whether such as contemn Gods Laws or mans and not a spirituall therefore such offenders are not censurable by us For except there had been some late Act that had repealed the Ordinance of 1648 for Church Government that appoints the inflicting of spirituall censures such offendors as are justly censurable by that Ordinance are still censurable by us Neither do we yet see how it is our mistake to think that notwithstanding the punishment inflicted upon the offendor by the Civil Magistrate we may for the same offence proceed to execute Church censures also or that it is either sound Divinity or good Law that a man may not be punished twice for one offence which yet is the argument whereby you would prove us therein for to mistake Indeed we hold it not just that one and the same person should be punished twice for one and the same offence with one and the same kinde of punishment but that such offendors as are punishable by the civil Magistrate with civil punishments may be proceeded against by the Church with Church censures is manifest 1. From your own concessions You had granted in your first Paper that such as are scandalous and wicked in their lives were to be admonished both publikely and privately and that if notwithstanding they continue still in their scandalous courses and would not reform the Churches lawfull Pastors had power to excommunicate such And in your second Paper it was one of the Arguments you urged to bring us to a compliance with your Proposals there that by that means the lives and manners of dissolute persons might with brotherly admonition and exhortation be reclaimed or by due censures be corrected and amended But now you eat your own words and flatly contradict what there you had granted for now you say such offendors as are punishable by the civil Magisttate according to the Acts that inflict civil punishment are not censurable at all by the Churches lawfull Pastors nor by us since we have refused to comply with your Proposals for then a man may come to be punished twice for one offence 2. From the justice and equity that is in so doing considering the different nature of Civil punishments and Ecclesiasticall censures the one being only corporall or respecting the outward man the other being spirituall and respecting the soul And therefore seeing men consist not only of bodies but have souls also such as are offenders against the Laws both of God and men may and ought to be punished as with civil punishment appointed by the civl Magistrate to be inflicted on the outward man so also with Ecclesiasticall censures appointed by Jesus Christ to be inflicted on the soul in case of impenitency 3. This also further appears by the necessity and usefullness that there may be of this double punishment The Magistrate may have punished the offendor in his purse or body and yet he continue in an insensible and impenitent state in which respect