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A15978 [A notable discourse, plainelye and truely discussing, who are the right ministers of the Catholike Church written against Calvin and his disciples, ... with an offer made by a Catholike to be a learned Protestant ... .]; Marques de la vraye église catholique. English Albin de Valsergues, Jean d', d. 1566.; Rishton, Edward, 1550-1586, attributed name. aut; Allen, William, 1532-1594. 1575 (1575) STC 274; ESTC S112318 85,201 271

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my masters did Valentinus and his felowes begin the refourmed Churche taking vpon them the correction of all the Magistrates and Fathers in times past saying that they did abuse the people because that they taught that Iesus Christe had taken fleshe and bloud of the Virgin Marye saying that this was a great errour the whiche ought to be refourmed and that the people shoulde beleeue that he brought his bodye from heauen and that he caused it to passe through the wombe of the virgin Marye as the water doth through the chanell This Gospell was very straunge yet the saide Valentinus did not want Scripture as you haue to confyrme it interpreting it euē as you do interprete here in Fraunce He did alleage for his text the thirde of Iohn where Christe doth saye No person is ascended to heauen but he that did descende from heauen And therefore did he mainteine that seing Christ is in heauen and descended from heauen that he tooke no fleshe of the virgin Marye Nestorius another notable heretike did linke his Gospel to Apollinaris opinion in this case seperating the manhood from God and saying that the sonne of man ought not to be called GOD for seeing saide Apollinaris that this man is descended from heauen it doth folowe that he tooke no fleshe of the virgin and besydes this Christe saith I am descended from heauen not to doo my will but the will of my father Here he doeth not speake as one that is God for if it were so he woulde haue no other will but the will of his father and so he doth speake like a mā And he sayeth that he is descended from heauen for the which cause this same Valentinus did take the conclusion of this Gospel to his aduantage for the third authoritie that is written in the fyrste to the Corinthians where S. Paule sayth the fyrst manne is of earth earthlye the seconde is of heauen heauenly The which passage or place is as fyt to serue Valentinus opinion as al the places that you and all those that holde your opinion can alleage ¶ The .22 Chapter ANother Minister likewise called Apollinaris folowed after these sent by the said master and yet according to his saying he did preache the pure word of God affirming that the Churche ought to be reformed which had beleued that the two natures were conteined in Iesus Christe that the true religion was to beleeue as it is written in the first of Iohn that the word was in deede becom flesh or cōuerted into fleshe And to confyrme this he did alleage the said place wher S. Iohn doth say And the worde was made flesh whē the Catholikes did reply against him saying that that verbe or word tooke fleshe and not as touching the conuersion of one substance into another he did fortifie his Gospell with another text where S. Iohn doth write of the mariage at Canaa where the water was chaunged into wine that is to saye as touching the verye substaunce of the water which was turned into wine Euen so sayth he that it became at the very Incarnation of Christe alleaging that that we haue sayde And the word was made fleshe Arrius whiche was the moste famous heretike that euer hath beene did pretende to verifye an other Gospell and his was that our Sauiour Christe had not taken at his Incarnation a perfecte soule as other men haue but that he had only a body and that his diuinitie did supplye the absence of his soule Of this opinion was Apollinaris Theodorus Mossnestenus and Nestorius came after and they did blame the Catholike Churche because it did teache the sayde vnion called as I haue sayde Hipostaticque that is to saye of the two natures in one person And they did alleage for their argument a very subtill reason the which was that God did inhabite within the body of our sauiour as he did within a Temple that is to say by grace and not by being vnited together And therefore euen as it were a great follye to say that God is a Temple that so it is to saye that God is a manne This Gospell did seeme verye newe yet did not they want Scripture to mainteyne it and that more plainer then euer I coulde see anye place to mainteyne your heresyes Christe did saye vnto the Iewes Vndoe this Temple and in three dayes I will builde it againe He meant it by the Temple of his bodye saith S. Iohn Then the bodye of Iesus Christe is the Temple of god god is not his tēple See whether this be not a notable argument to deceaue the simple man that is not vsed to reade howe the doctours expounde these hard places And moreouer they did alleage S. Paule in the fyrst to the Colossians where he doth saye that the plenitude or fulnes of diuinitie doth dwell in Iesus Christe corporally they doo alleage this place greatly to their purpose to proue that God is a Temple that is to saye by grace and not being vnited For the thirde place they take the. 8. of Iohn where Christe doth saye He that hath sent me is with me and he hath not left me alone And therefore Theodorus his felowes did conclude that there was no more vnion betweene the diuinitie and humanitie of our Sauiour then there is betweene God and vs. Of the which S. Paul doth speake where he sayeth He that is ioyned to God is made one spirite with him ¶ The .27 Chapter IT doeth suffise that one maye see by these felowes howe soone one that is yll disposed may alleage scripture in corrupt sense to mainteyne suche heresyes as these the whiche I will not stay to confute for thankes be to God they doo not reigne nowe for they haue perished and their auauthours as you shall and your folowers if ye doo not repent in time And besydes this our doctours haue fullye aunswered by textes of Scriptures these olde heresyes as you may see in al the auncient ecclesiasticall writers and confuted them not onelye with pithye reasons but with the true worde of God and the authoritie of diuers generall Councels And if I haue noted here some part both of their authours and of them to shew how they did seeke to confyrme their damnable opinions I doo it only to warne the simple people that they shoulde not so soone geue eare to false Pastors which haue nothing in their mouthes but the holye Scripture and the pure worde of God couering the cuppes of their poyson with the golde and pretious stones which they haue taken from the Image of the eternall kinge to painte those subtill Foxes that will leade them all to damnation And therefore in the name of God I doo desyre those that are not much vsed to reade the Scriptures nor to heare how the Churche and the Doctours doo expounde the harde places to beware howe they reade them for feare of falling into errour taking onely the letter which manye times hath a contrarye sense
visible vnction Moyses himselfe was extraordinarilye called and sent of God approued by miracle as it appereth in the fourth Chapiter of Exodus And therfore the Apostle S Paule nameth Aaron and not Moises to signifye that all extraordinary vocations by miracles as Moyses was are nowe ceassed and that we must from hencefoorth be ordinarilye called by externall vnction as Aaron was When therfore the learned protestant shal be able to proue their iust and due vocation ordinarily or extraordinarilye to proceede of God and not onely of man I shall then yeelde and recant and not before Thirde signe token of false Prophetes heretikes and Schismatiks is that they being first departed from the catholike churche and secondarily not called doo forthwith al of them selues preache and teach contentiouslye and seditiously against the doctrine before time taught of the common knowen catholike churche of Christe as against the Sacraments of Christe his Churche by a flat denyall of manye of them against the reall presence of Christe his bodye in the holy Eucharist against the blessed sacrifice of the Masse propitiatorye both for the liue the deade against penaunce and worthy fruites therof by fasting watche prayer and all straightnes of life against vowes inuocation of Saintes prayer for soules departed and finally agaynst the churche it selfe flatlye denying that Christe hath here vpon the earth any Spouse or visible churche here to be heard speake perceaued or seene The Apostle S. Paule in admonition geuing vnto vs to beware of this sygne and token sayeth Doctrinis varijs et peregrinis nolite abduci Be not you led and caried awaye with these diuers and straunge doctrines so termed of Thapostle S. Paule because they are not agreing but contrary to the receaued and common knowen doctrine of Christ his catholike churche When therfore the learned Protestant s●al be able to proue that they and their congregations are not the raysers vp of these contentions and strifes by their preaching of these straunge doctrines but we that are members of the catholike Churche Then I will submit and recant and not before Fourth signe and token of false prophetes heretikes and schismatikes is Schisma in ecclesiam introducere To bring into the churche of Christe by their doctrine schisme diuision and seperatiō of one member from another and of the whole misticall body from the true heade Iesus Christe For whereas the health and saluation of Christe his flocke people doth moste chiefely consist in peace concorde and vnitie they therfore which by schisme doo deuide and disperse his flock and of one societie and felowship before do make many and diuers they innot sparing nor preseruing in vnitie the flock of Christe are become raue●●ng wolues Thapostle S. Paule knowing the great daunger and hurt vprising of schisme doth moste humblye beseeche vs with all diligent circumspection to auoyde the same saying Obsecro vos fratres per nomen domini nostri Iesu Christi vt idipsum dicatis omnes et non sint in vobis schismata sitis autem perfecti in eodem sensu et in eadem sententia I beseeche you brethren by the name of our Lorde Iesus Christe that ye all say one thinge and that there be no schismes among you but be perfect in one minde and one meaning Nowe if the learned protestant shal be able to proue that wheras about the time of three score yeres and aboue we were al not onlye here in this Realme but vniuersallye in all other Realmes professing Christe of one Churche of one fayth and religion and of one vnitie therein if he shal be able to proue that this late schisme whereby we are so deuided and dispersed that some are become Lutherans some Zuinglians some Caluinists some Puritans and Anabaptists did proceede from vs and from the common knowen Catholike Church of Christe and not whollye from their priuate Churche and congregations and of the deceptfull and false doctrine by them preached and taught I shall then stay no longer but yeeld and recant and not before Fyfte signe and token of false prophetes heretikes and schismatikes is disobedience Et non obedire sed resistere eis qui praesunt in ecclesia dei And not to obey but resist those which doo beare rule and gouerne in the church of God of the which sort of men the Apostle S. Paule geueth vs warning saying Quemadmodum Iamnes et Mambres restiterunt Moysi ita et hi resistunt veritati homines corrupti mēte reprobi circa fidem Like as Iamnes and Mambres did resist Moises euen so do these resist the truth being men of corrupt mind and reprobates in faith Now when the learned protestant shal be able to proue that this rebellion and disobedience to all Bisshops prelates and ecclesiasticall gouernours is to be found in the catholike churche and not in the priuate churche congregations of the protestantes Then I shall yeelde submit and recant and not before Sixte signe and token of false prophets heretikes and schismatikes is the ficklenes weak slippernes of errors heresies Quòd quaelibet haeresis prae catholicae fidei peepetua firmitate facile transit ac perit For that euerye heresye in comparison of the stabilitie and perpetual continuance and firmnes of the catholike fayth doth soone perish and passe away Thapostle S Peter in speaking of these false prophetes sayeth Magistri mendaces superducent sibi celerem perditionem et perditio eorum non dormitat These lying masters doo bring vppon them selues a quick and speedie ouerthrow and their destruction shall not be slacked nor slowed The truth of this testimonie is to be tryed by all sectaries and sortes of heretikes that euer haue bene as of the Nicolaites Arrians Donatists Maniches Pelagians Iouinists Nestorians Nouatians Sabellians and the rest of heretikes whose errors and heresyes being neuer so stoutly vpholdē by Emperors kinges and princes yet by generall councels and censures of Christe his catholike churche they had in fyne their iust condemnation and ouerthrowe What shoulde I here make mention of the Lutherans and protestants of our time When the Lutherans here in this Realme haue taken their iust ouerthrowe already for the great desyre the protestants had to preferre the doctrine of the Oecolampadians Suinglians and Caluinists The Suinglians and Caluinists with the rest sectaryes of all sortes are nowe here in this Realme at the very neere and like poynte they being nowe readye to yeelde vp the ghoste and to tylte vp their heeles for the great desyre the common and baser sorte of the people haue to be Precisians and Puritans And they being winked at of the Magistrats there be no small number of all degrees and sortes of men that doo further and fauour them in this their attempt to the great increase of thē It cannot therefore be denyed but that all sectaryes and heresyes are on this wise mouing sitting and euer passing from one secte to another without any long time of continuance