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A41330 The questions between the conformist and nonconformist, truly stated, and briefly discussed Dr. Falkner, The friendly debate &c., examined and answered : together with a discourse about separation, and some animadversions upon Dr. Stillingfleet's book entituled, The unreasonableness of separation : observations upon Dr. Templers sermon preached at a visitation in Cambridge : a brief vindication of Mr. Stephen Marshal. Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697. 1681 (1681) Wing F962; ESTC R16085 105,802 120

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member and yet both he and that particular Church too may be guilty of Schism So that his definition is too strait I will give him more advantage and let him take it I shall then give a description of Schism and open it Then I will lay down several Propositions tending to the clearing of the Question who are the true Schismaticks Schism is a renting or dissolving that Vnion which Christ our Head requireth in his visible body To open it I shall be short 1st That Christ hath a Body Natural and Mystical or a body in a mystery which is to him as his natural body is known to all Christians Ephes 1.22 speaking of Christ He is the head over all to the Church v. 23. which is his body This Head and this Body make up one Christ mystical 1 Cor. 12.12 so is Christ 2ly This Body of Christ is but one two Bodies joined to one Head much more thousands were monstrous All the believers in all the particular Churches of the world make up but this one Body of Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ehes 4 4. one body So Rom. 12.4 5. 1 Cor. 12.12 so Revel 19. ch 21. one Bride one Wife 3ly This body hath its bands or ligaments whereby the body is tyed to the Head and the members one to another For those to the Head I omit the other concern me in this place how the members are tyed one to another Now these ligaments are first Internal secondly are External 1. Internal and they 1. The blessed Spirit of Christ Ephes 4.4 One body and one spirit so 1 Cor. 12.13 The second is love Col. 3.14 Eph. 5.16 2. The External bands are the Sacraments or Seals of the New Covenant whether Government be any thing I shall touch afterwards But for the Sacraments they are the bands of this visible body they belong only to the members of this body one Baptism Ephes 4.5 belong only to that one body v. 4. 1 Cor. 11.17 We being many are one bread and one body for we are all partakers of that one bread Hence Excommunication in which men are cut off the Body and rendered durante hoc statu as Heathens and Publicans not visible members of Christ is by casting them out of Communion with their Body in these Ordinances In these Ordinances the visible members of the body declare that unity and internal band of love one to another Panis igitur fractio est unitatis dilectionis symbolum Virtute hujus Sacramenti con a lescimus in unum corpus invicem cum Christo Par. in loc Paraeus in loc who quotes Chrysostom and the practise of the old Christian Churches how Christians in this Ordinance did manifest their unity and love A Christians love I speak to the business in hand is twofold 1. There is a Christian love common to all 2. There is a Christian Ecclesiastical love proper to some as for Christian love I am bound to manifest that to the bodies and souls of all though Heathens I will pray with Heathens a silly thing to turn Excommunicated persons from Prayer which is Natural Worship I will Preach to Heathens I will exhort reprove encourage Heathens privately to comfort a Heathen as a Christian I cannot else I call not to mind what effects of love I manifest to a Christian but I will to a Heathen But for Christian Ecclesiastical love manifested by Communion in these Symbols or signs I will not manifest that to one Heathen only to the members of this visible body being one with them As for Episcopal Government which Dr. Goodman and this late Commencer adds First I would thank either of them if they would give us a stout piece against Erastus and his followers 2ly If by Episcopal Government they mean such as now is among us let them first prove it is of Divine Institution which all the Commencers in Cambridg or Oxford shall never be able to do so long as there is a Bible and if they cannot do that then where is the schism It 's rather our duty to separate from what is not of Christs planting in his house 3ly But let the Government be of Christs Institution yet wherein doth that Government shew it self among other things in letting in or casting out of this body by admitting or casting out from these Ordinances of the Sacraments but that refusing or separation from such Episcopal-Government meerly as Episcopal should be Mortale schisma this is but the figment of the delirant-brain of a Prelatical Zealot 2ly This Schism is in the visible body of Christ I hear there are schisms among you 1 Cor. 11.8 the house of Cloe 1 Cor. 1.11 saw them who informed Paul Schism it seems comes under the senses then it must be in the visible body when this body visibly met together By the visible body of Christ I understand all that make profession of their Faith in the Lord Jesus and the Doctrine of the Gospel soundly and do in their conversation visibly walk according to his Rules in his Gospel so that their conversation do not openly be●ly and deny their profession Tit. 1.16 That the one body of Christ mentioned 1 Cor. 12.12 in which there ought to be no schism v. 25. is meant the visible body of Christ I think none will deny So Rom. 12. Ephes 4. 1. It is such a body in which the Lord had set Apostles Evangelists 1 Cor. 12.18 Ephes 4.11 such a body to which extraordinary gifts were given But these were Apostles not to one particular Church but the Catholick Church visible 2. One member is to suffer or rejoice with another 1 Cor. 12.26 Ay if it be a member and real member of our particular Church of Corinth but for other Churches and unless we are sure they are invisible members let them go Is this the meaning 3. Are we baptized into a particular or the Catholick Church 1 Cor. 12.13 and Baptism belongs to the visible Church Other things I might mention but I think it will not be denied 3ly When then that union our Lord and Head requireth in this his visible body is rent dissolved when Communion is denied among the members of it contrary to his appointment Now Schism appears when the internal band Love is broken there is something of the nature the root of the sin is in it but that is hid Men can hypocritically and vilely meet together and hold communion in that Ordinance which holds forth unity and love and have their hearts wretchedly divided one from another this may be hid as I said But Schism properly so called is when the external band is broken when communion in those symbols or signs is denied on one side or refused on the other side without warrant from Christ so that the members do not meet and hold their communion as they ought but split into several pieces opposite one to another as if they were not members of that one body Now Schism is apparent
to have eat these meats they had sinned in their command nor were they bound to obey them with a doubtful conscience to hazard amnation by obedience to superiors is no good Divinity Yet Sir we do give obedience and will preach up obedience to Princes as much as any other only in the matters of God he is the superior and supreamest Nemini fit injuria cui praponitur Deus For your next Section pag. 442. where you labour to defend your Ceremonies though they have been abused in a corrupt way of worship in Popery As for this Section Mr. Falkner might have spared it for Humane Doctrinal Ceremonies to be annexed to Gods own Institutions we judg them sinful additions intrenching upon the Soveraignty and flighting of the wisdom of Christ though Rome had never known them as if the wise holy God could not have appointed more Doctrinal Ceremonies had he cared for them as well as foolish sinful man but since then these were and are still in the Popish worship and retained here when England threw off the Papal yoke I will consider what he hath said and but touch it briefly 1. Rome then as now it stands is that Whore described Apoc. 17.1 this I doubt not of this judgment were our English Bishops the most learned of them the Professors of Divinity in both Universities and generally of our pious and learned men in this Nation before our troubles began and also of foreign Divines Was it ever known that a chast Virgin as the Church should be to Christ 2 Cor. 11.2 would dress up her self with the reliques of a known Whore Come out of her my people Apoc. 18.4 this is not obedience to that call 2ly It seems very strange that when Gods own Institution came to be abused to Idolatry as the Brazen Serpent 2 King 18.4 that must now be broken in pieces and must a Humane Institution used in superstitious worship in an Idolatrous Church be yet retained in a Reformed Church I shall not write out his Argument at length 1st In Regeneration the bodies and souls once abused to the service of the Devil Lust Idols may yet find acceptance with God in serving of him Ans A strange argument for a learned man If so excellent a Creature as man made after the Image of God under a necessity of obedience to his Creator being fallen from God but by Gods rich mercy the Obedience Blood and Sacrifice of Immanuel and the renewing of the holy Ghost be accepted of God Then a paultry human Ceremony indifferent in its own nature and no necessity for the use if abused in an Idolatrous Church may yet be retained in a chast Church and the use of it acceptable to God This Logick I understand not Consequence denied I could enlarge my answer but will not 2d Arg. From single mersion and threefold mersion in baptizm A. Was the water so baptizing in water a Human Ceremony and Invention or Christs own Institution For dipping in the water or pouring of the water upon the person your Church allow both because the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifie both If any did dip thrice denying the Trinity of persons to be of the same essence that was their Heresie but if any did hold the Trinity of persons in the Unity of the essence and yet would dip thrice though I do not much like it yet I should not condemn them of Heresie the Text mentions nothing whether once or thrice But prove Baptizing in water to be mans invention 3ly The Christians lawfully used those fountains where the Gentiles drew water for their Sacrifices c. A. And why not did the Heathen and Julian make those Fountains or God make them for the use of Man and Beast shall therefore an Idolater deprive the Christians of those which God made for the use and necessity of Man and Beast What is sold in the shambles 1 Cor. 12.25 But this you are to prove if you will make an Argument of it that when the Idolaters had taken water out of those Fountains carried it to their Idol Temples made use of it in their Idol worship that then the Christians would take that water and baptize believers in it though yet there is more to be said for them than for your Ceremonies because to baptize in water was Christs Institution For the fountains Julian might have Dedicated the Land thereabouts to Idols and Devils as well as the Fountains and so the Christians should be afraid to sow Corn to maintain Life 4ly We meet in their Churches or places they built use their Bells Tenths for maintenance of Ministers Ergo. A. 1. For places 1st Place hath no moral signification as your Ceremonies 2. Place is necessary so not your Ceremonies 3. Those places were built for the worship of the true God and Christ though these blind Idolaters might also intend some Saint But if they had been built only for the worship of a Saint in imitation of the Heathens Demons we would not meet in them but done by them as Constantine did by the Idols Temples razed some to the ground and shut up others 2. Bells It seems you use them all the while you are reading Prayers and worshipping God in your Surplice the Bells are Chiming I thought the Bells had done when worship began 2. Something must be done to give notice to the people what time the worship of God begins so the Bell doth this day to morrow it calls the people to a meeting about Town-affairs 3. Bells have no moral signification in them as your Ceremonies 4. I believe few Bells in England but have been cast since the throwing off Popery to make them musical and none use them for that end No such musical tunes did I observe in Spain but a confused jangling in time of Thunder 3. Tenths Ministers maintenance have no moral signification nor annexed to Divine Worship The people tell you Tenths are Levitical not Popish Though by their savour twice we read of Tenths being paid to God before the Levitical Law But for maintenance poor Nonconformists are not concern'd in this argument 4 The Heathens lifted up their eyes when they worshipped their Idols their gods Sun Moon c. A. 1. Did the Heathen call a Convention and there decree That when men did worship God they should lift up their eyes to heaven as your Convocation appointed these or did Natures light teach them this gesture 2. Were the Heathens the first that in worshipping of Idols lifted up their eyes to heaven Did not Adam Abel and the Saints before the Flood and Noah Sem c. after it lift up their eyes in their worshipping of God If the Heathen will imitate the Church must the Church lay by duty because the Heathen worship Devils therefore we must not worship God 5 I dolatrous sacrifices were practised before the giving of the Law yet God continued and commanded saerifices after the Law A. Your Argument speaks thus much If the Devil will