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soul_n	body_n	call_v	mind_n	3,901	5	5.5903	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A27035	A second true defence of the meer nonconformists against the untrue accusations, reasonings, and history of Dr. Edward Stillingfleet ... clearly proving that it is (not sin but) duty 1. not wilfully to commit the many sins of conformity, 2. not sacrilegiously to forsake the preaching of the Gospel, 3. not to cease publick worshipping of God, 4. to use needful pastoral helps for salvation ... / written by Richard Baxter ... ; with some notes on Mr. Joseph Glanviles Zealous and impartial Protestant, and Dr. L. Moulins character.	Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.	1681 (1681)	Wing B1405; ESTC R5124	188,187	234

far to heal us could we obtain it He saith that any one that hath seen them knoweth it to be a mistake to say it was published by John Fox Ans His Reader must be a strong believer and take much on his word 1. I have seen them and spake with men of great understanding that have seen them that yet judge it no mistake 2. The Preface of the publisher is like his Style 3. It is called Praefatio I. F. And can every Reader know that I. F. meaneth not John Fox 4. Ordinary Tradition saith it was Fox's And what should I sooner believe in such a case Instead of proving that they have all a power to their condemnation which we see they exercise not let him procure a real power declared and granted and it will do more than these words Sect. 23. But when it comes to the question whether me may so much as call a sinner to repentance by name before the Church who rejecteth all more private admonition he puts the question whether the obligation to admonish publickly an offender or to deny him the Sacrament if he will come to it be so great as to bear him out in the violation of a Law made by publick authority c. Ans The first question is whether Christ have not made his Church so different a thing from the World that they should be openly differenced by a Communion of Saints 2. And whether he hath not instituted an office to judge of this and by Government execute it And 3. Whether any man have authority to suspend this Law or Office And then 4. I shall grant that not only Discipline but Preaching and Prayer and Sacraments may be forborn hic nunc in the present exercise when else the exercise would do more hurt than good 5. But are these Laws good that forbid it and should we Covenant never to endeavour an Alteration Sect. 24. He next tells us of the great difficulty of exercising true Discipline which is most true and seems thence to defend the forbearance of it with us Answ I have in my Treatise of Episcopacy and oft proved that it is of great importance to Christ's ends and that he would have it continued to the last and that the Communion of Saints is a practical Article of Faith and that making small difference between the Church and the World tends to Church destruction and to the reproach of Christianity and the utter undoing of millions of Souls And though Pope and Prelates have abused it to captivate Princes and Nations the just use of it he knoweth is mentioned by the Universal Church and visibly recorded in the Canons of the several ages Though some Erastians are of late against it And Jesuits and worldly Protestants can dispense with it when it would hurt their worldly Interest and turn it chiefly against Gods Servants that displease and cross them Sect. 25. p. 284. He saith The want of Discipline in the Parish Churches was never thought by old Nonconformists destructive to the being of them Answ They did not confound the Power and the Exercise Nor what the Ministers office is indeed and from God and what it is by the Bishops Mind and Rules of Conformity I say as they 1. The Exercise may be suspended without nulling the Power or Policy 2. They are true Pastors and Churches by Gods will against the will of those that would degrade them Sect. 26. But supposing every man left to his own Conscience for Communion 1. He saith the greatest Offenders generally excommunicate themselves Answ 1. And is it your way to leave all the rest to their Consciences and yet to preach and write against and lay in Jail dissenting godly People that communicate not with you 2. And are not all these Offenders still Members of your Church Albaspineus complaineth of their Roman French Church that he never knew any further cast out than from the Sacrament and left still to other parts of communion as Members And so do you by thousands who are all Sons of your Church but we are none He is again at it what Church I was of and I have told him oft enough CHAP. VIII What the National Church of England is Sect. 1. ACcording to the Doctors Method we come now to the Explication of one of the terms of our Controversie so long and loudly called for viz. what the National Church of England is which we must obey and from which we are said to separate p. 287. And the answer is such as may tell Dr. Fulwood and him that it's time to give over wondering that I understood not what they meant by it Sect. 2. Our question is of the Church Policy and Political Form All writers of Politicks difference a meer Community from a Political Body This is essentiated of the two constitutive Parts the Pars Regens and Pars subdita the former is much like the Soul and the later the Body The Ruling Part is called the Form by most and the sorts Monarchical Aristocratical Democratical or mixt the form in Specie as the rational or sensitive Soul to Animals But the Relative Form is the Union of both in their proper order Such a body Politick is a Kingdom a City a Church in the proper and usual sense But in a loose sense many other things may be called a Church As 1. a Community prepared for a governing Form not yet received 2. An occasional Congregation about Religion as Prisoners that pray together Men that meet about a Religious Consultation or Dispute c. 3. Many Churches as under one Christian Magistrate as an accidental Head 4. Many Churches associated for mutual help and concord without any governing Head Either of one Kingdom or of many 5. Many Churches as meerly agreeing in Judgment and Love in distant parts of the World None of these are Churches in the political Sense but are equivocally so called But Politically 1. All the Christian World is one Church as formed by their Relation to Christ the Head 2. All single Churches that have Pastors to guide them in the Essentials of the Pastoral Office are true Churches formed by this mutual Relation These two are undoubted 3. The now Roman Catholick Church is one by Usurpation as informed by one Usurping head 4. A Patriarchal Church is one as Governed by a Patriarch 5. A Provincial Church is one as headed by the Metropolitan or as mixt where Aristocratically others are joyned with him 6. An Archiepiscopal or Diocesan Church that hath particular Churches and Bishops under it is one as headed by that Diocesane Jure an injuriâ I dispute not 7. A Diocesane Church of many score or hundred Parishes having no Episcopus Gregis or true Pastors and Pastoral Churches under him but only half Pastors and Chappels that are but partes Ecclesia is one even of the lowest sort in their opinion as headed by that Diocesane 8. A Presbyterian Classical Church is one as headed by the Classes 9. A

With these and such others Truth is not tollerable he raileth that confuteth them and doth Auriculas molles mordaci radere vero I profess I felt so little passion in writing that book which he saith was written in one continued Passion that I think verily I sinned all the while for want of a livelier sense of the sin and hurt which I was detecting by my confutation But I confess it is my opinion that Falshood of Speech may lie in describing a thing short of Truth as well as in going beyond it And that the Truth of words is their Agreeableness to the matter and mind And that verba rebus aptanda sunt And that he that writeth against sin must call it sin and open the evil of it § 5. His Preface giveth us hopes that we are so farr agreed in our ends as to be both for God for truth for unity and peace and Love and against Popery and one would think this much should go far towards our Concord But alas all agree not what Piety is or what Popery is nor of the way to our ends If he think that to be against Spiritual Prayer would help us against Popery 1. I would he would tell us which way If by reducing the Nonconformists to think Formes lawful so do the Jesuites And he told us that they at Franckford took a Forme from Geneva as useful And the present Nonconformists put their judgment out of question an 1660 and 1661. In their witings offers and Formes Printed But all that are for Formes are not for all things in your Formes 2. And I would he would have better told us what the Spiritual Prayer is which the Jesuits first brought in and helpes in Popery For hitherto it is the Dead Ceremonious formality and Imagery of Popery destroying Spirituality by words not understood Mummeries Beads Canting Stage workes which hath alienated most Religious Protestants from them I will 1. Tell you what I take Spiritual Prayer to be and then 2. Desire his judgment of it 1. It is my judgment if he know it to be erroneous I crave his reasons 1. That Mans Soul is by sin so depraved that it is morally unable without Gods Spirit effectually to know feel and desire deliverance from his own sin and misery and to desire Gods Grace and Glory above all worldly sinful pleasures 2. That therefore such desires in act and habit must be wrought in us by the Spirit of God And the whole work of Regeneration and Sanctification is a giving to the Soul that new Divine nature Love and delight which worketh by such holy desires And that as the carnal mind is enmity to God and cannot be subject to his Law and if any man have not the Spirit of Christ the same is none of his so to be Spiritually minded is life and peace and God who is a Spirit will be worshiped in Spirit and truth and by this we know that we are the Children of God by the Spirit which he hath given us For he promised to pour out the Spirit of Grace and supplication And because we are sons he hath given us the Spirit of his Son by which we cry Abba Father And this Spirit helpeth our Infirmities in Prayer If these things be in the Papists Bible I hope they are not therefore Popery I suppose the Papists also own our God our Saviour and our Creed 3. The help in Prayer which we expect from the Spirit is 1. To illuminate us to know what we need and should desire and ask 2. To kindle in us holy desires sincere and servent of what we should ask 3. To give us a true belief of and trust in the Love of God the entercession of Christ and the promises of the Gospel that we may pray in hope 4. To give us thankful hearts for what we do receive and fit with joy to praise the giver 5. To stir up all these dispositions to particular acts in the due season And to save us from the contrary 6. And we believe that a mind so illuminated and affections so sanctified and kindled have a great advantage above others coeteris paribus to express themselves in words For. 1. A man that knoweth what to say can speak it when the ignorant cannot Doth not a stock of knowledge enable you to Preach without book 2. Such a Soul will set it self diligently to think what and how to speak in so great a business when the careless mind it not 3. Love and delight are very speedy Learners 4. Fervent desire sets all the powers of the Soul awork and is full and forward to express it self Hunger can teach men easily to beg Poor men speak intreaties Anger Joy every passion maketh and powreth out words where there is prerequisite ability 4. We believe that he who by natural defectiveness or difuse cannot find words fitly to utter his own mind may have the help of Gods Spirit in uttering such words as he readeth or learneth of others and especially in the case of Psalms which are not of sudden invention if for Concord the Churches agree to use the same meet words Gods Spirit may actuate their desires therein 5. We hold that this Holy Spirit is as Tertullian speaketh Christs Vicar Agent or Advocate by preventing operateing Cooperating grace thus to illuminate Sanctifie and actuate believers in all holy works and especially in prayer And I could heartily wish that you would not be against so much as Spiritual Preaching Spiritual Writing and disputing and living and not say that the Jesuits brought them in 6. I believe that we are Baptized into the name of the Holy Ghost as well as of the Father and the Son believing that he is thus Christs Agent for all this work upon our Souls and covenanting to obey him 7. I believe that sins against the Holy Ghost especially deriding or reproaching his great works miraculous or Sanctifing have a dangerous malignity 8. I suppose that in all this the faculties of mans own Soul are the natural recipients of the Spirits influx and agent of the act which both causes effect And that it s as vain a question whether it be by the Spirit or by natural faculties that we pray aright as whether it be God as fons naturae or mans natural powers which cause our natural acts Or whether the Act of seeing be from the sun or the eye As if the same effect might not yea must not have a Suprior and Inferior Cause 9. Therefore as Gods Spirit witnessing with ours that we are his Children so Gods Spirit helping our infirmities in Prayer suspendeth not the exercise of our Spirits or maketh our reason and consideration needless but actuateth them in their duty Learning and studying how to pray is consistent with the Spirits help in Prayer 10 I never talkt of it with any Nonconformists who denyed that an hypocrite may without any special help of the Spirit speak all the same words in prayer without either book

to the Anabaptists and Quakers Answ Alas that such things should be the best to such a man By May go you mean 1. lawfully 2. or eventually 3. or for want of due hindring The Reader may think that you by Calumny father the first on me as if I said that so to go to the Quakers were no sin whereas I still say that if they do but leave your Churches by any culpable Error it is their sin 2. And as to the Event many not only may but do turn Quakers Papists and Athiests 3. And as to the third it 's all the question here not whether we should seek to save them but which is the true reasonable and allowed means Whether it be the Patrons choosing for all England the Pastors to whose care they must trust their Souls and laying them in Jail that will choose others Or whether there be not a righter way And again I say Kings and Patrons choose not mens Wives or Physicians or Food and every man hath a charge of his Soul as well as of his Life Antecedent to the Kings or Patrons charge Sect. 6. But why saith he P. 11. v. 115. must the King bear all the blame if mens Souls be not provided for c Answ He that is the chooser must bear the blame the King for Bishops and the Patrons for Parish Priests if they mischoose And do you think in your conscience that all the Patrons in England of so various minds and lives are like to choose only such in whose pastoral conduct all that care for their Souls should rest Yea though the Bishops must Institute them as they Ordained them When we heretofore told them of the multitudes of grosly ignorant drunken Priest their answers were 1. Their Chaplains examined them 2. They had certificates 3. A quare impedit lay against them if they required higher knowledge than to answer the Catechism in Latine And now experience will not warrant us to know what such men are P. 115. He asketh How it is possible on these terms to have any peace or order in an established Church Answ I have fully told him how in a whole Book of concord And hath their way caused greater peace and order Yes to themselves for the time So Popery keepeth some Order and Unity with them that hold to it But it kept not the Greeks or Protestants from forsaking them Sect. 7. P. 119. 120. He saith They only look on those as true Churches which have such Pastors whom they approve Answ Equivocal words 1. If they approve not those whom they should approve it is their sin 2. Approving is either of the necessaries ad esse or only ad melius esse They must not put the later for the former 3. Approving is by a Governing or but a discerning private Judgment The first they have not but the later In good earnest would he have all the people take those for true Pastors who they verily think are none Can they at once hold contradictions And if they must not judge as dissenters what meaneth Mr. Dodwels and such mens Arguments to prove all no Ministers that have not Succession of Episcopal Ordination Must not the people on that account disown them by his way Sect. 8. p. 119. He brings in against us my words I take those for true Churches that have true Pastors and those for none that have 1. Men uncapable of the Pastoral Office 2. or not truly called to it 3. Or that deny themselves the essential Power Answ He knoweth that I speak not of equivocal but proper political Churches And is it possible that such a man should dissent in this 1. Can he be a true Pastor that is uncapable of the Office Shall I abuse time to confute gross Contradictions Or if he be a profest Infidel Can he be a Christian Pastor 2. Is a Layman a true Pastor that is not truly called to it why then do they argue as Mr. Dodwell or Re-ordain men 3. Can a man be a Pastor against his will or that con●enteth not but renounceth it or can that be a true Pastoral Church that hath no Pastor Verily we are but upon low works if these be the things which we must prove Sect. 9. He adds And one or other of these he thinks must if not all the parochial Churches in England fall under Answ I read these words of the Dr. to a Papist To speak mildly this is a gross untruth Therefore I hope it were no Rage for me to have said the like How doth he prove it Nay in the place cited by him I not only profest the contrary but gave the Reason p. 65. Because I judge of their Office by Gods Word and not by the Rule which deprives them of an essential Part. And 1. He citeth my confession that those that I hear preach well and therefore are not uncapable men 2. That their Ordination hath all essentially necessary and all the worthy men that I know have the communicants of the Parishes consent though not Election and therefore are called 3. And many of them as he thinks they have all essential to the Office and disown it not though I think others deny it them where there is the truth of what he saith Sect. 10. p. 120. Because my practice disproveth him he finds out a Subtilty that I joyn not with the Parish Churches as true Churches but only as Chappels or Oratories he accounts not our parochial Churches as true Churches nor doth communicate with them as such a Subtilty beyond the reach of the old Brownists Answ Deliberately to print such untruths seems tolerable in him but to say they are such would seem passion in me and what other answer are they capable of What I expresly say of the three forementioned excepted sorts he feigneth me to say of all or most of the Parish Churches and yet dare not deny the truth of any one of the Exceptions 1. Do not all those men take the Parishes for no proper political Churches but only for Parts of the Diocesan Church such as we call Curates Chappels who say that a Bishop is a constitutive Part of a true political Church and entereth the Definition and that it 's no Church that hath no Bishop and that Diocesan Churches are the lowest political And do I need to tell him how considerable these men are among them 2. Doth he himself take any one of these for a true political Church When I was young divers Laymen by turns were our publick Reading Teachers Among the rest one was after proved to counterfeit Orders This mans acts were no nullities to us that knew it not but when we knew of such must we take them for true Pastors and it for a true Church Sect. 11. p. 221. He saith Any Parochial Church that hath such a one a Bishop or Pastor over them that hath the power of the Keys and owns it self to be Independant he allows to be a true Church and none else Answ

more harm than good is not to be owned and his bare recital is confutation Ans I must profess that I am so confident of this that a thousand such dissenting Drs. cannot change me And according to his excellent Rules of judging in the end of his Discourse of Idolatry which maketh natural Verities most certain and fundamental me thinks it should to him be surer of the two than the Gospel it self viz. That all men should love themselves and be unwilling to be damned and therefore should not own that Ministry of man which tendeth more to Destruction than to Edification And when he wrote that cited in my first Chap. he was of that mind or he was a most gross dissembler But must it be otherwise Is it our Salvation that we must sacrifice to Priests Prelates or Princes wills If our Tithes would have served them we had not gainsaid them If our Bodies and Estates might have satisfied them we had not struck at it so much But when Destruction signifieth Damnation it is a hard bargain If we should renounce our Christianity for them we are never the nearer for we are still Men and therefore loth to be destroyed in Hell If this be the meaning of the Article which denyeth free will I deny it freely I have no such free will But O Reverend Fathers be more impartial Are you so loth to lose your great Riches and Honor yea or to have your Reputation so far questioned as to be contradicted or have others live by you that preach without your consent and yet must all the people of England so much deny their own Salvation for you as to submit to a destroying Ministry Why then did you before put agreement in Doctrine among the requisites to our Accusation must we agree and not judge whether we agree or not Why then must not all Hereticks Papists c. be received why then are all your volumnious Accusations produced to prove us justly silenced and Mr. Dodwels to prove us no Ministers of Christ if we want nothing but a human power to impose us on the Churches and a Patron to present us But the best is when you have talk'd and written your worst men will be unwilling of destruction and till the Bible be forbidden men will read Beware of false Prophets Let no man deceive you prove all things from such turn away Mark them which cause Divisions and Offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learn'd and avoid them and more 2 Pet. 2. J. ●it 3. 10. 2. J. 10 11. Sect. 17. He adds That we may not think all this to be only a Romantick Scheme or Fiction he adds that they are not able to confute the people in too many places who tell them that their publick Priests are so defective in their necessary Qualifications for their Office as that they hold it unlawful to own such for true Ministers and to encourage them by their presence and commit the care of their Souls to such Ans 1. This is true we are not able to confute them If you be rejoice in your Wisdom 2. Either you would have us believe that there are none such or that no such are to be so refused The first you attempt not If you did I would repeat a Catalogue of my old Teachers and Acquaintance but I have named them to Mr. Hinkley And as to the second I prove it a sad task for such a one as you to put us on 1. Such as are known to be no authorized Ministers of Christ should not be owned as such But all those that want the necessary Qualifications for their Office are no authorized Ministers of Christ Ergo. If the Major were not true Error or Lying were a duty The truth of the Minor is evident in the terms necessartum est sine quo res non esse potest It is Qualifications necessary to the Office in esse and not only to the well performance that is mentioned Forma nunquam recipitur in materiam dispositione necessaria carentem But here the Office is the forme and the necessary disposition of the matter is supposed wanting Ergo. Again All men are bound to avoid the apparent means of Damnation To trust the conduct of our Souls to men uncapable for want of necessary Qualifications is an apparent means of Damnation as excluding an ordinarily necessary means of Salvation Ergo. Again It is a great sin to encourage men in the wilful damning of their own Souls and hindering the Salvation of many others But to own an unqualified uncapable man as a Minister of Christ is to encourage him in the wilful damnation of himself by his prophane undertaking and in hindering the salvation of many others Ergo. I will not recite what Zechary and other Prophets say of the usage of false pretenders to be Prophets lest you misapply it Again No man ought to consent to the prophane subverting of Christ's Church-Offices and Ordinances But to consent to the Ministry of unqualified uncapable men is to consent to the subverting of Christ's Church-Offices and Ordinances Ergo. Can your patience endure unqualified men in the Ministry and cannot endure such as us out of Jail because we obey you not in all your imposed Oaths Words and Practises Sect. 18. Next he thus confuteth us and directly contrary to the Principles of the old Nonconformists as appears at large by Mr. Ball saying If Can's meaning be that it is not lawful to communicate in the Worship of God with Ministers not fitly qualified disorderly called or carelesly executing their Office it is directly contrary to the word of God sound Reason and consent of all the Learned Ans Who would have thought that this worthy Doctor could not or would not see a difference between fitly qualified as ad bene esse and unqualified or wanting the qualifications necessary ad esse and between disorderly called and not called or consented to by the Flock at all and between careless executing the Office and not having the Office as uncacapable He will not strain at such gnats as these And is there no difference between lawful Communicating and committing the conduct of mens Souls to them as our stated Pastors Mr. Ball lived not far from me his intimate Friend Mr. Ash well knew his mind You may yet know it fully from Mr. Cook of Chester a silenced Minister bred up in his house and sometime one of your old Patrons Sr. Roger Burgone Nonconformists after many others at Rockshal in Warwickshire Mr. Ball was not such an enemy to distinguishing as to confound Necessaries ad esse Officii ad bene esse Sect. 19. But p. 124. I am also brought as against my self for saying That a Ministers personal faults do not allow people to separate from the Worship of God 2. nor all Ministerial faults but only those that prove him and his Ministration utterly intolerable Ans 1. A strong proof that therefore the intolerable may be received because I say no