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A30412 A relation of a conference held about religion at London by Edw. Stillingfleet ... with some gentlemen of the Church of Rome. Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699.; Burnet, Gilbert, 1643-1715. 1687 (1687) Wing B5863; ESTC R4009 107,419 74

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those we deal with may think of them we are sure we cannot devise how any one could have delivered our Doctrine more formally Parallel to these are Origen's words Homil. 7. in Lev. who calls the understanding the Words of our Saviour of eating his Flesh and drinking his Blood according to the Letter a Letter that kills The same St. Austin calls the Eucharist a Sign of Christ's Body in his Book against Adimantus Lib. cont Adimant manich c. 12. who studied to prove that the Author of the Old and New Testament was not the same God and among other Arguments he uses this That Blood in the Old Testament is called the Life or Soul contrary to the New Testament To which St. Austin answers That it was so called not that it was truly the Soul or Life but the Sign of it and to shew that the Sign does sometimes bear the Name of that whereof it is a Sign he says Our Lord did not doubt to say This is my Body when he was giving the Sign of his Body Where if he had not believed the Eucharist was substantially different from his Body it had been the most impertinent Illustration that ever was and had proved just against him that the Sign must be one and the same with that which is signified by it For the Sacrament being called the Type the Antitype the Symbol and Mystery of Christ's Body and Blood The ancient Liturgies and Greek Fathers use these Phrases so frequently that since it is not so much as denied we judg we need not laboriously prove it Therefore we pass over this believing it will be granted for if it be denied we undertake to prove them to have been used not only on some occasions but to have been the constant Style of the Church Now that Types Antitypes Symbols and Mysteries are distinct from that which they shadow forth and mystically hold out we believe can be as little disputed In this Sense all the Figures of the Law are called Types of Christ by the Fathers and both the Baptismal Water and the Chrism are called Symbols and Mysteries And tho there was not that occasion for the Fathers to discourse on Baptism so oft which every body received but once and was administred ordinarily but on a few days of the Year as they had to speak of the Eucharist which was daily consecrated so that it cannot be imagined there should be near such a number of places about the one as about the other yet we fear not to undertake to prove there be many places among the Ancients that do as fully express a change of the Baptismal Water as of the Eucharistical Elements From whence it may appear that their great Zeal to prepare Persons to a due value of these holy Actions and that they might not look on them as a vulgar Ablution or an ordinary Repast carried them to many large and high Expressions which cannot bear a literal meaning And since they with whom we deal are fain to fly to Metaphors and Allegories for clearing of what the Fathers say of Baptism it is a most unreasonable thing to complain of us for using such Expositions of what they say about the Eucharist But that we may not leave this without some Proof we shall set down the words of Facundus Desens Conc. Chalced. lib. 9. who says The Sacrament of Adoption that is Baptism may be called Adoption as the Sacrament of his Body and Blood which is in the consecrated Bread and Cup is called his Body and Blood not that the Bread is properly his Body or the Cup properly his Blood but because they contain in them the Mystery of his Body and Blood and hence it was that our Lord called the Bread that was blessed and the Cup which he gave his Disciples his Body and Blood Therefore as the Believers in Christ when they receive the Sacrament of his Body and Blood are rightly said to have received his Body and Blood so Christ when he received the Sacrament of the Adoption of Sons may be rightly said to have received the Adoption of Sons And we leave every one to gather from these words if the cited Father could believe Transubstantiation and if he did not think that Baptism was as truly the Adoption of the Sons of God as the Eucharist was his Body and Blood which these of Rome acknowledg is only to be meant in a moral Sense That the Fathers called this Sacrament the Memorial and Representation of the Death of Christ and of his Body that was broken and his Blood that was shed we suppose will be as little denied for no Man that ever looked into any of their Treatises of the Eucharist can doubt of it St. Austin says Epist. 23. ad Bonifac. That Sacraments must have some Similitude of these things of which they be the Sacraments otherwise they could not be Sacraments So he says the Sacrament of the Body of Christ is after some manner his Blood So the Sacrament of Faith that is Baptism is Faith But more expresly speaking of the Eucharist as a Sacrifice of Praise he says Lib. 20. cont Faust. Manich. c. 21. The Flesh and Blood of this Sacrifice was promised before the coming of Christ by the Sacrifices of the Types of it In the Passion of Christ it was done in the Truth it self And after his Ascent is celebrated by the Sacrament of the remembrance of it But he explains this more fully on the 98th Psalm where he having read ver 5. Worship his Footstool and seeking for its true meaning expounds it of Christ's Body who was Flesh of this Earth and gives his Flesh to be eaten by us for our Salvation which since none eats except he have first adored it He makes this the Footstool which we worship without any Sin and do sin if we do not worship it So far the Church of Rome triumphs with this place But let us see what follows where we shall find that which will certainly abate their Joy He goes on and tells us not to dwell on the Flesh lest we be not quickened by the Spirit and shews how they that heard our Lord's words were scandalized at them as hard words for they understood them says he foolishly and carnally and thought he was to have cut off some parcels of his Body to be given them But they were hard not our Lord 's saying for had they been meek and not hard they should have said within themselves He says not this without a cause but because there is some Sacrament hid there for had they come to him with his Disciples and asked him he had instructed them For he said it is the Spirit that quickens the Flesh profiteth nothing the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and Life And adds understand spiritually that which I have said for it is not this Body which you see that you are not to eat or to drink this Blood which they are to shed who shall crucify
Sacrament and so dies without it he may have everlasting Life therefore they must conclude that Christs Flesh may be eaten by Faith even without the Sacrament Again in the next verse he says Whoso eateth my Flesh and drinketh my Blood hath eternal Life These words must be understood in the same sense they had in the former verse they being indeed the reverse of it Therefore since there is no addition of worthily necessary to the fence of the former Verse neither is it necessary in this But it must be concluded Christ is here speaking of a thing without which none can have Life and by which all have Life therefore when ever Christs Flesh is eaten and his Blood is drunk which is most signally done in the Sacrament there eternal Life must accompany it and so these words must be understood even in relation to the Sacrament only of the spiritual Communicating by Faith As when it is said a man is a reasonable Creature though this is said of the whole man Body and Soul yet when we see that upon the Dissolution of Soul and Body no Reason or Life remains in the Body we from thence positively conclude the Reason is seated only in the Soul though the Body has Organs that are necessary for its Operations So when it is said we eat Christs Flesh and drink his Blood in the Sacrament which gives eternal Life there being two things in it the bodily eating and the spiritual communicating though the eating of Christs Flesh is said to be done in the worthy receiving which consists of these two yet since we may clearly see the bodily receiving may be without any such Effects we must conclude that the eating of Christs Flesh is only done by the inward Communicating though the other that is the bodily part be a divine Organ and conveyance of it And as Reason is seated only in the Soul so the eating of Christs Flesh must be only inward and spiritual and so the mean by which we receive Christ in the Supper is Faith All this is made much clearer by the words that follow my Flesh is Meat indeed and my blood is drink indeed Now Christs Flesh is so eaten as it is meat which I suppose none will question it being a prosecution of the same discourse Now it is not meat as taken by the Body for they cannot be so gross as to say Christs Flesh is the Meat of our Body therefore since his Flesh is only the Meat of the Soul and spiritual Nourishment it is only eaten by the Soul and so received by Faith Christ also says He that eateth my flesh and drinks my blood dwells in him and he in him This is the definition of that eating and drinking he had been speaking of so that such as is the dwelling in him such also must be the eating of him the one therefore being spiritual inward and by faith the other must be such also And thus it is as plain as can be from the words of Christ that he spake not of a carnal or corporal but of a spiritual eating of his Flesh by Faith All this is more confirmed by the Key our Saviour gives of his whole Discourse when the Iews were offended for the hardness of his sayings It is the Spirit that quickneth or giveth the Life he had been speaking of the flesh profiteth nothing the words I speak unto you are spirit and they are Life From which it is plain he tells them to understand his words of a spiritual Life and in a spiritual manner But now I shall examine N. N. his Reasons to the contrary His chief Argument is that when eternal Life is promised upon the giving of Alms or other good Works we must necessarily understand it with this Proviso that they were given with a good intention and from a good Principle therefore we must understand these words of our Saviour to have some such Proviso in them All this concludes nothing It is indeed certain when any promise is past upon an external Action such a reserve must be understood And so St. Paul tells us if he bestowed all his goods to feed the Poor and had no Charity it profited him nothing And if it were clear our Saviour were here speaking of an external action I should acknowledge such a proviso must be understood but that is the thing in question and I hope I have made it appear Our Saviour is speaking of an internal action and therefore no such proviso is to be supposed For he is speaking of that eating of his Flesh which must necessarily and certainly be worthily done and so that objection is of no force He must therefore prove that the eating his Flesh is primarily and simply meant of the bodily eating in the Sacrament and not only by a denomination from a Relation to it as the whole man is called reasonable though the reason is seated in the Soul only What he says to shew that by Faith only we are not the Sons of God since by Baptism also we are the Sons of God is not to the purpose for the design of the Argument was to prove that by Faith only we are the Sons of God so as to be the Heirs of eternal Life Now the Baptism of the adult for our debate runs upon those of ripe years and understanding makes them only externally and Sacramentally the Sons of God for the inward and vital Sonship follows only upon Faith And this Faith must be understood of such a lively and operative Faith as includes both repentance and amendment of Life So that when our Saviour says he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved that believing is a complex of all evangelical Graces from which it appears that none of his Reasons are of force enough to conclude that the universality of these words of Christ ought to be so limited and restricted For what remains of that which he desired might be taken notice of that we ought to prove that Christs Body and Blood was present in the Sacrament only spiritually and not corporally by express Scriptures or by Arguments whereof the Major and Minor were either express words of Scripture or equivalent to them it has no force at all in it I have in a full discourse examined all that is in the Plea concerning the express words of Scripture and therefore shall say nothing upon that head referring the Reader to what he will meet with on that Subject afterwards But here I only desire the Reader may consider our Contest in this particular is concerning the true meaning of our Saviours words This is my body in which it is very absurd to ask for express words of Scripture to prove that meaning by For if that be setled on as a necessary method of proof then when other Scriptures are brought to prove that to be the meaning of these words it may be asked how can we prove the true meaning of that place we bring to prove the
that is nourished by the Body and Blood of Christ and is made His Member We hope it will be observed that as these Words are express and formal so the Design on which He uses them will admit of none of those Distinctions they commonly rely on Tertullian says Lib. de Resur c. 8. the Flesh is fed with the Body and Blood of Christ. St. Austin Serm. 9. de Divers after he had called the Eucharist our daily Bread he exhorts us so to receive it that not only our Bellies but our Minds might be refreshed by it Isidore of Sevil says The substance of the visible Bread nourishes the outward Man or as Bertram cites his Words all that we receive externally in the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ is proper to refresh the Body Next let us see what the 16th Council of Toledo says in Anno 633. condemning those that did not offer in the Eucharist entire Loaves but only round Crusts they did appoint one entire Loaf carefully prepared to be set on the Altar that it might be sanctified by the Priestly Benediction and order that what remained after Communion should be either put in some Bag or if it was needful to eat it up that it might not oppress the Belly of him that took it with the burden of an heavy surcharge and that it might not go to the Digestion but that it might feed his Soul with spiritual Nourishment From which Words one of two Consequences will necessarily follow either that the Consecrated Elements do really nourish the Body which we intend to prove from them or that the Body of Christ is not in the Elements but as they are Sacramentally used which we acknowledg many of the Fathers believed But the last Words we cited of the Spiritual Nourishment shew those Fathers did not think so and if they did we suppose those we deal with will see that to believe Christ's Body is only in the Elements when used will clearly leave the Charge of Idolatry on that Church in their Processions and other Adorations of the Host. But none is so express as Origen Comment in Mat. c. 15. who on these words 'T is not that which enters within a Man which defiles a Man says If every thing that enters by the Mouth goes into the Belly and is cast into the Draught then the Food that is sanctified by the Word of God and by Prayer goes also to the Belly as to what is material in it and from thence to the Draught but by the Prayer that was made over it it is useful in proportion to our Faith and is the mean that the Understanding is clear-sighted and attentive to that which is profitable and it is not the matter of Bread but the Word pronounced over it which profits him that does not eat in a way unworthy of our Lord. This Doctrine of the Sacraments being so digested that some parts of it turned to Excrement was likewise taught by divers Latin Writers in the 9th Age as Rabanus Maurus Arch-bishop of Mentz and Heribald Bishop of Auxerre Divers of the Greek Writers did also hold it whom for a Reproach their Adversaries called Stercoranists It is true other Greek Fathers were not of Origen's Opinion but believed that the Eucharist did entirely turn into the Substance of our Bodies So Cyril of Ierusalem says Mystic Catech. 5. that the Bread of the Eucharist does not go into the Belly nor is cast into the Draught but is distributed thorough the whole Substance of the Communicant for the good of Body and Soul The Homily of the Eucharist in a Dedication that is in St. Chrysostom's Works Tom. 5. says Do not think that this is Bread and that this is Wine for they pass not to the Draught as other Victuals do And comparing it to Wax put to the Fire of which no Ashes remain he adds So think that the M●teries are consumed with the Substance of our Bodies Iohn Damascene is of the same mind who says Lib. 4. de Orthod fide c. 14. That the Body and the Blood of Christ passes into the Consistence of our Souls and Bodies without being consumed corrupted or passing into the Draught God forbid but passing into our Substance for our Conservation Thus it will appear that tho those last-cited Fathers did not believe as Origen did that any part of the Eucharist went to the Draught yet they thought it was turned into the Substance of our Bodies from which we may well conclude they thought the Substance of Bread and Wine remained in the Eucharist after the Consecration and that it nourished our Bodies And thus we hope we have sufficiently proved our first Proposition in all its three Branches So leaving it we go on to the second Proposition which is That the Fathers call the consecrated Elements the Figures the Signs the Symbols the Types and Antitypes the Commemoration Representation the Mysteries and the Sacraments of the Body and Blood of Christ. Tertullian proving against Marcion Lib. 4 cont Marc. c. 40. that Christ had a real Body he brings some Figures that were fulfilled in Christ and says He made the Bread which he took and gave his Disciples to be his Body saying This is my Body that is the Figure of my Body but it had not been a Figure of his Body had it not been true for an empty thing such as a Phantasm cannot have a Figure Now had Tertullian and the Church in his time believed Transubstantiation it had been much more pertinent for him to have argued Here is corporally present Christ's Body therefore he had a true Body than to say Here is a Figure of his Body therefore he had a true Body such an escape as this is not incident to a Man of common Sense if he had believed Transubstantiation And the same Father in two other places before cited says Christ gave the Figure of his Body to the Bread and that he represented his own Body by the Bread St. Austin says Com. in Psal. 3 He commended and gave to his Disciples the Figure of his Body and Blood The same Expressions are also in Bede Alcuine and Druthmar that lived in the Eighth and Ninth Centuries But what St. Austin says elsewhere Lib. 3. de Doct. Chr. c. 16. is very full in this matter where treating of the Rules by which we are to judg what Expressions in Scripture are figurative and what not he gives this for one Rule If any place seem to command a Crime or horrid Action it is figurative and to instance it cites these words Except ye eat the Flesh and drink the Blood of the Son of Man you have no Life in you which says he seems to command some Crime or horrid Action therefore it is a Figure commanding us to communicate in the Passion of our Lord and sweetly and profitably to lay up in our Memory that his Flesh was crucified and wounded for us Which words are so express and full that whatever