A Fuller Discovery OF THE Dangerous Principles And lying spirit of the People called Quakers made manifest in George Whitehead John Whitehead and George Fox the younger In their Book against Iohn Horne and Thomas Moore of Lin Regis in NORTHFOLK Written by the said Thomas Moore and Iohn Horne for the fuller satisfaction of all such as desire to be further satisfied about the evil and erroniousnesse of the said People called Quakers Most men will proclame every man his own goodnesse but a faithful man to Christ and his Cause who can find Prov. 20. 6. I marvel yee are so soon removed from him that called you not into your selves but into the grace of Christ unto another Gospel which is not another but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the Gospel of Christ But though we even Apostles or an Angel from heaven persons of most Angel-like carriage and appearance preach any other Gospel unto you as the following Discourse shews that these Quakers do then that which we the Apostles have preached unto you let him be accursed Gal. 1. 6 7 8. LONDON Printed for John Allein at the signe of the Rising Sun in Pauls Church-yard 1660. THE EPISTLE TO THE READER ONce more we have herein presented thee Courteous Reader with a discovery of the People called Quakers in which thou mayest see from their own written and printed sayings by what manner of spirit they be led and what manner of Doctrine they publish and strive to maintain and indeed the naughtinesse of their way is made manifest partly by their Principles and Doctrines broachedly them and partly by the manner of their carriage in their managing and maintaining them Wee shall give thee here a brief account of both in a few Observations 1 For the Doctrines and Principles maintained by them thou mayest observe in their Queries sent us printed with our Answers to them at the close of our Answer to their Book against us as hintâ—d and in their book more clearly asserted or implyed these following viz. I. That Christ hath no other body but his Church no personal body and so that that body of his flesh in which he suffered and bare our sins and which rose again is not a body or is not in being Book pag. 7 8 9. answered by us in our Reply pag. 25. to pa. 42. and Quest 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 10 11. II. That the blood of Jesus Christ or his personal abasement sufferings in the flesh to the shedding and pouring out his blood and soul to Death sustained by him once in the end or last Ages of the World are not the foundation or of the foundation of their faith so that their faith is not faith in Christs blood as so considered nor is that precious blood or those sufferings of Christ that wherewith their conscience is purged or the spiritual drink of the soul but some other thing principle or spirit in men which they put the Name of the blood of Christ upon See if this conceit or Doctrine in both parts of it negative and affirmative be not hinted in their Quest 12 13 14. seeing the body of his flesh in which he suffered they deny to remain and yet say his blood is in his flesh what can they mean by his flesh but something of his Church which onely they grant to be his body and so that his blood is nothing but some seed principle or sufferings in his Church their pleading against his blood or suffering as the foundation or of the foundation of Faith thou mayst see in their book p. 14 15 16 17. answered by us here p. 52 53 54 c. III. That the lower parts of the earth into which Christ descended and the heavens into which he again ascended are no local places but some conditions or conceits in men Qu. 3 4 5 6â— Book p. 8 9. answered by us p. 26 27 33. IV. That the same body that dies shall not rise again in the Resurrection Book p. 10 11. Answered by us p. 42 to 46. and Quest 16 17. V. That the souls of the wicked shall not come out Hell at the great day of the Resurrection and judgement to be further judged they imply Quest 18. and so that neither the souls nor the bodies of the wicked shall rise again to judgement VI. That that coming of Christ in which the dead in him shall be raised and be caught up into the Ayr together to meet him and be ever with him and in which he shall descend from heaven with a short and the sound of the trumpet c. mentioned 1 Thess 4. 15 16. is already long since past For they say the Apostles and Believers of that Age in which the Apostle wrote remained to it Book p. â— Answered p. 32. Quest 15. and so they agree with Hymeneus and Philetus that said the Resurrection is already past 2 Tim. 16. to 18. VII That the Christ we look for to come from heaven again they desire not the knowledge of Book p. 10. Answered p. 41. VIII That they are sinless or have no sin in them they deny not and that those that are believers in Christ and born of God are perfectly freed from sin as to the being of it in them Book p. 1 to 6. and yet that the little children that John wrote to who were also born of God and know the Father might have sin in them Ans p. 9 10. to p. 24. IX That all sin is guide when as the scripture distinguishes guile from other sins and other sins from guile 1 Pet. 2. â— and sayes some have no guile in their spirits who yet have sins though forgiven and covered yet there to be covered Psalm 32. 1. 2. Book p. 4. 5. Answ p. 17 18. X. That Adam might have died the natural death if he had not sinned and so that the bodily or natural death came not in by sin Book p. 6 7. Ans p. 23. XI That Christ came not to redeem men from out of the natural or bodily death B. p. 7. Ans p. 25. XII That our faith that is not grounded in Christs appearing in us is to be turned up by the roots and so by consequence that all the faith that is grounded in Christs appearing and suffering for us without us and in his appearing in heaven for us and so such faith as that of the Elect mentioned Rom. 8. 33 34 35. is by these mens Doctrines to be rooted up Book p. 10. Ans p. 41 42. XIII That the Apostles and all that were led by the spirit of God c. witnessed the Redemption of the body spoken of Rom. 8. 23. when they were upon the earth and did not put it afar off as they deridingly phrase the looking and waiting for it till after death in which they say again in effect that the resurrection of the believers body is made in this life Book p 11 12. Ans p. 47 48 XIV That the knowledge
its pretious fruit abiding with him in the man Christ Jesus glorifyed by means thereof and so evidently set forth to us in the preaching of the Cross even this is in the Faith and Believing remembrance of unfained Believers and pretious to them and so in its pretious Fruits in their mind and conscience working also through the whole man through that Faith of the Operation of God which is the evidence of things not seen the confidence of things hoped for And had these men understood what it is to eat Christs flesh and drink his Blood and to have the conscience purged with that they would have been far from so blaspheming it as a common or prophane thing as in this question with the other at least privily they have done nor would they have sought room to lift up and magnify something else in the name and place of it But they clearly manifest to those of any right understanding and skil in the Word of Righteousness that it is not his flesh they eat nor his Blood they drink for they believe not that his once suffering in the flesh for sin to be so pretious with God as to have obtained such glory into him in the man for us as before is shewed and therefore neither do they believe that to be of such infinite and abiding virtue as to be the meat and drink of life and purger of the Conscience as they signify in this question and so they believe not on him as the Scripture hath said as may appear in the answers given nor is it the true Christ that is in them but something else in the name and place of him it is Swines Flesh they eat unclean and forbidden things and the broth of abhominable things is in their Vessels nor are their Consciences truly purged or made good though they may be seemingly quiet but still defiled according to the corrupt unbelieving mind if not seared as with an hot Iron for in him whom the Father hath sent and sealed they believe not nor in the Lords death the Blood or Death of his Crosse have they their peace consolation and rejoycing as further appears in what follows Quest 13. And was the Blood of Christ that was shed separate from his body and then bearing record on the earth when John wrote those words 1 John 5. 8. A. The Blood of Christ that is to say his once Suffering in the Flesh even to the shedding of his Blood and so to the pouring out his Soul or life unto death that blood or death of his Cross as we have before fully shewed that to be meant by the blood of Christ by which peace was made and redemption obtained and he entered into heaven it self c. Yea it is evident to be meant here for the blood that bears witnesse in earth is the same mentioned vers 6. as that by or through which his having come in the Flesh to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself compare with vers 6. chap. 4. 2 3. and Heb. 9. 26. was perfected Now it is not simply his sometime having Material and Mortal blood or his being partaker of Flesh and Blood but his suffering and enduring even to blood and so to death in the Flesh by which together with the Grace of God he came as our Saviour and became a Captain of Salvation for us and to us as Heb. 2. 9. 10. 14 15. and chap. 9. 12. 26. That Blood of his Cross his once suffering unto death in the Flesh and so his death is as we have before shewed past and over as to the actual accomplishment and sustaining of it yea so separated from his Personal Body as that all mortality was put off in his Resurrection from the dead he dyed once and can dye no more but the remembrance of it remaineth with the Father who hath received and accepted it and him by means of it as a sacrifice for ever and so the infinite Fountain of the pretious virtue and fruit of it is treasured up in the man Christ Jesus whom God hath raised from the dead and Floweth from him in the influences and streams thereof unto men in the Name of God his Father and so his blood is still bearing witnesse on earth for God hath given him as delivered for our offences and raised again for our justification for a Witnesse to the People a Testimony in due time Isa 55. 3 4. with Acts 13. 34. and 1 Tim. 2 4 5 6. and therein this is the first and great thing witnessed by the Holy Ghost in which he commends his love to men and sheds it abroad in the hearts of believers namely that when we were yet without strength enemies ungodly c. In due time Christ dyed not is dying for us Rom. 5. 6. 8. with 2 Sam. 14. 14. yea such the powerful efficacies of this blood or death of Christ that is so past that it can no more be suffered that where the preaching of it is with the Heart believed it fills with peace hope and joy through the power of the Holy Ghost in it it purgeth the Conscience from dead works to serve the Living God and so also is bearing witnesse on the earth for he that believeth on the Son of God hath the witnesse in himself in his understanding and heart by faith through which he proves its pretious fruit and effecacy So that as the Blood or death of Abel whom Cain slew when over and past yet witnessed against Cain and cryed unto God for vengeance Gen. 4. 10. 14. so the blood or death of Christ through which his comming in the flesh or first appearing to put away sin by the Sacrifice of himself was perfected being presented before the Father in the appearing of the Man Christ Jesus in that Body of his flesh in which he so suffered in the presence of his glory doth speak better things for us in Heaven and from thence also in the Name of the Father speaks good things on earth even peace and good will to men yea it speaks and works effectually in the hearts of them that believe Heb. 12. 24. but these men not onely intimately shew their counting this his suffering to blood to death a common thing of no more virtue and efficacy then the blood of another person may be but they also manifest themselves unreasonable and absurd that cannot understand how a thing actually past and over may still remain in its fruit and efficacy which they might have seen in other things as in that of Abels blood forementioned so also in Gods delivering Israel out of Aegypt destroying their enemies his answering Balaam to the making void the consultations of Balaak and such other wonderful works being given for a witnesse of his Righteousnesse unto the generations after Mich. 6. 1. 5. Psal 81. and 78. and 106. Quest 14. And how can the blood of Christ either cleanse any from sin or give life to any if the life of Christ be
his bone and so to imply a distinction between the flesh and bone that the Church is and the flesh and bone that it is of As was between Evabs flesh and bone and the fleshand bones of Adam out of which she was made flesh and bone for to her that phrase is applyed Gen. 2. 23. 3. Whereas they put this consequent upon us that we by denying their addition to the Scriptures make it as if Christ had two bodies of flesh and bones one of which the saints are not Members see if this follow not clearly from their addition For whereas the Apostle says we are of his flesh and of his bones and so implies but one body of flesh and bones out of which the Church is now these to that body of flesh and bones which is Christs make a second which is the Church while they say the Church is flesh and bone too flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone even as Adams body of flesh and bone out of which Eve was made and Eves that was made out of it were two bodies of flesh and bone 4. Do they not bely the Apostle too when they say he saith as much as they were flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone in his saying no man ever hated his own flesh but loveth it and cherisheth it even as the Lord the Church for we are Members of his body of his flesh and of his bones Is it not clear that the former part speaks of men loving their own naturall bodies called their flesh but the latter part speaks of Christ cherishing his Church but calls not the Church his flesh and bone but Members of his body of that is out of his flesh and of that is out of his bone implying that the Church is sprung and framed to him to be his Church out of his flesh and bone that is from his incarnation suffering and the things done in and by his being made flesh had not he had a body prepared for him even a body of flesh and bones in which he did the Fathers will he could have had no Church we are the fruit of the travaile of his soul Isa 53. 10. We noted that this opinion of the Quakers denying that body viz. That body personall that body that had flesh and bones and in which Christ suffered to be glorified doth at once turn up by the roots all the faith of Christs appearing in the Heavens for us c. To this they Object again our confusion and falshood because we said before of the Quakers that the same body that suffered was glorified at Gods right hand in Heaven and now charge them with denying that body to be glorified Rep. Mind here reader their subtilty how they hide themselves in aequivocations when we say they deny that body to be glorified it is clear that we speak of his body personall the body of his flesh and doth it not plainly appear that they deny that to be glorified when they deny any body of Christ remaining but his Church But now when they said the same body that suffered was glorified we told you before they meant but his Church and so that body they that confess to suffer and to be glorified is not the same that we say they deny to be glorified and to that purpose both in a letter we had from them and in their book they tell us of the seed Christ suffering somewhere and in some and reigning or glorified in others were there ever such juglers and Jesuites as these we deal against that are full of lies and confusion and wind about into many shapes and aequivocations to deceive the simple but cannot be ashamed of them they are so hardened They plainly shew their corrupt and wicked judgements about the coming of the Lord from Heaven 1 Thes 4. 15. While they say W. and F. we blindly put it afar off and that that coming of Christ the saints who were then alive namely when the Apostles wrote remained unto it Rep. So then by that the Lord himself descended from Heaven with a shout and with the voice of the Archangell and with the Trump of God and the dead in Christ were raised before Paul and the believing Thessalonians dyed and so they did not sleep as to their bodies but were suddenly changed and taken up to meet the Lord in the ayre and to be ever with him then that 's false that Hystories relate of Pauls being beheaded at Rome and in vain do men look for Christs coming to raise the dead for that 's past and gone before the Apostles age was past The resurrection of the just is over then for that was to be at Christs coming and why should any preach now and believe in Christ now when there is nothing of hope now to be looked for Are not these sufficiently grosse and wicked in their judgement that dare take away the hope of Christs glorious appearance and the being for ever with Christ to be by any man now expected But it's strange Christ should come the elements melt with servent heate the trumpet sound the dead in Christ be raised and no man hear or speak or write of it in any age except in haereticorum cubiculis as Tertullian speaks or as I may rather say in the fancies of Hereticks but alas Reader these men turn all these things into fables perverting the whole Scripture to their corrupt sense by dead in Christ meaning but the spiritually dead in some fancied death sleeping in him and the trumpet and shout and resurrection all Allegoricall and so they thereby deny and undermine both the coming of Christ the resurrection and the judgement spoken of in the Scriptures Tohelp thee against them whereas they urge we that are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord as if they that then lived should certainly live and abide till his coming know that the Apostle writ of it as a thing that is hidden as to the day and time of it and writes of the Church as of our body in all ages and so by we that live and remain means but those of us that shall be found living that is of the company of believers with whom they numbred themselves because then living possibly not knowing but they might have lived to his coming But it no more implies that the believers of that age should live and remain till the coming of Christ then that they who lived in Davids age or when the Psalms were penned lived in Moses age many hundreds of years before him and rejoyced in the Lord when Israel went over the sea because it 's said Psal 66. 6. They went through the flood on foot there did we rejoyce in him or that the people in Hoseas time were born and lived in Jacobs time because in Hos 12. 4. Speaking of Jacobs wrestling with God in Bethell he saies he found him in Bethel and there he spake with us This one passage of theirs were there
9. speaks of his having descended into the lower parts of the earth as may further appear by comparing it with that prediction of our Saviour Mat. 12. 40. as the fulfilling of it is opened by Peter Acts 2. 24. 27. 31. He was made sin and made a curse for us yea he dyed and was buried wonderful was his abasement and humiliation for us and the more wonderful considering the excellency of the person who so willingly humbled and abased himself and what we were for whom he did it the greater the sin of the enemies of his Cross that seek to render it as a common or prophane thing as if of no more worth or preciousnesse then the blood or Sufferings of or sustained in and by other persons may be and so wretchedly strive to abase him that abased himself for them But God hath mightily declared him to be the Son of God by raising him from the dead in the same body the third day for his Soul that was made an offering for sin was not left in bell neither did his flesh see corruption and in that body he is ascended and the Father hath exalted and received him even him whom they crucified slew and hung on a Tree the same that these men also crucifie to themselves and put to an open shame seeking to cast him down from his excellency Q. 5 W. and F. And if he which descended into the lower parts of the earth be a person of flesh and bones which ascended far above all Heavens What is that place he is in far above all Heavens which is not Heaven Answ It is not so hard to find confusion and non-sence in this Supposition and Querie grounded upon it as it is to find so much plainnesse and honesty as by which it may be understood what they mean or require answer to But the intention of this Querie by comparing it with the rest of their confusions of this nature appears to be First To suppose or implie this as the question Whether he that ascended up far above all Heavens be a person of flesh and bones the same that descended into the lower parts of the earth and then by that which follows as the main querie in this question to enforce a Negative answer by rendering the acknowledgement of that Person as being in that his own body in Heaven it self absurd and foolish because they think in their foolish imagination that to acknowledge him to be so in Heaven and yet also far above all Heavens cannot stand together Their inward thought its like is by these perverse disputings to draw us into some snare or confusion that they may glory over us and get advantage to insinuate to such as will listen to them that the plain declarations of these things concerning the Man Christ Jesus in the Scriptures are but cunningly Devised fables that must have some other Moral or Mysterie according to the Sensual or fleshly mind in which they are vainly puft up not holding the head however we shall put it to the issue giving our answers plainly and without hidden things of dishonesty as those that have received a word of truth a faithful saying worthy to be stuck too and of which we are not ashamed And so first to their supposition laid down as the ground of their following querie If he which descended c. be a person of flesh and bones To this we say first we know no person made up or wholly consisting of flesh and bones much lesse is his who is God man the onely begotten Son of God even as now made flesh and so as the Son of Man John 1. 14. now glorified with the Fathers own Self as the Fruits of his Sufferings for in him Col. 2. 9. dwelleth all the fulnesse of the God head bodily Joh. 17. 4 5. Therefore we reject their absurb expression as foolish and impious proceeding from their scorn of him and enmity to him though they in reproach and derision of us for his Sake would intimate it as ours as a little before that other expression not altogether so grosse as this a body of flesh and bones to which having spoken already we add no more to this But further assert in answer to their querie implyed in the Supposition That the Son of Man even Christ of the Seed of David Abraham yea of Noah and Adam after the flesh in that body of his flesh prepared for him when he came into the World in which he was sent forth made of a Woman made under the Law he being found in fashion as a man in the likenesse of sinsul flesh though without sin and in the form of a Servant did also descend into the lower parts of the earth even in the two last sences of the lower parts of the earth before mentioned For as Jonas was three dayes and three nights in the belly of the Whale so was the Son of Man in his finishing the works the Father gave him to do on the earth three dayes and three nights in the heart of the earth Mat. 12. 40. In that Body of his flesh he bore the Judgement of this World even that due to us for sin in which he was made for a time the banished or forsaken one and his Soul therein made an offering for our sin John 12. 27. 31. with Isa 53. 10 Luke 22. 42. 44. Psal 22. 1. c. with Mat. 37. 46. Mark 15. 34. in that his own Body himself bare our sins on the tree 1 Pet. 2. 24. and 3. 18. and once Suffered for Sins the just for the unjust being put to death in the flesh he dyed for our Sins according to the Scriptures and was buried 1 Cor. 15. 3 4. yea farther we assert with the Scriptures that Christ of the Seed of David after the flesh he even the same that dyed and was buried rose again the third day according to the Scriptures for if the dead rise not then is not Christ risen for though it was in or after the flesh that he dyed and was buried yet by reason of the inseparable union of the two natures in one person the word being made flesh It was Christ that died and was buried and therefore also it was not possible that he should be holden of Death 1 Cor. 15. 3 4. 12. 16. Acts 2. 22. 24. His soul was not left in hell neither did his flesh see corruption as Davids did but God raised him the third day even him whom they flew and hung on a tree and took down from the tree and laid in a Sepulcher God raised him from the dead and shewed him openly not to all the people but to witnesses chosen before of God even to those last Apostles who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead Acts 10. 39. 40 41. and 13. 29. 30 31 37. To whom he shewed himself alive after his passion even himself that suffered to death in the flesh alive after his suffering by many
partaker for a time that he might die for us That through Death he might destroy him that had the power of Death c. 3. To their parenchesis or a humane body we further say Doth the Light in them tell them that carnal and a body of Flesh and Bones and a humane body is alwayes one and the same Let us see if it be not darknesse Humane is alwayes used for the Nature or kind of man as Gods Creature as distinguished from other kinds of Creatures And so a humane body is the body of a man one that is verily a man whether sinful and mortal or not so either the one or the other And so the Body of Adam in his Innocency was humane the body of a man he was verily man yet sinless and so not subject to or in a state of Death though capable of becoming Immortal or mortal but when by sinning he fell from God then he became sinfult and mortal And such are all that by natural propagation come from him as of and from him while in this body not changed by Death yet still humane the nature or kinde remains though degenerated and corrupt God made man upright and t is man still that hath sought out inventions and is become carnal sold under sin Ecles 7. 21. with Gen. 5. 1. 2. and Chap. 8. 21. But the second Adam our Lord Jesus Christ is not a carnal but Spiritual man even from the first of his being made man for though his Body prepared for and taken by him when the word was made flesh was humane of mankinde and so he was a very man Yet he came not by propagation from Adam but though made of a woman of the seed of Abraham and so of Adam of whom Abraham was yet it was in a supernatural way a work of new Creation by the operation of the holy Ghost in the womb of a Virgin that had not known man and was holy being anointed of God with the Holy Ghost and power even in and from his conception and Birth And so that holy thing even before born of her and when born and alwayes without sin yet not Immortal but for a time partakers of Flesh and Blood as the Natural Children of Adam and because therein he was made subject to our infirmities that came on us naturally or as a natural heritage from Adam by reason of sin yet without sin he was said to be made in the likeness of sinful Flesh and his body might be said in some sence to be made a natural body as being partakers with us of Flesh and Blood and so mortal though not in every sence or in a full sence as the naturall Children of Adam are Yet to esteem him sinful Flesh or his body a carnal Body even then when he was on Earth partakers of Flesh and Blood and suffered in the Flesh we account blasphemie much more to esteem his raised and Glorified body in Heaven a carnal body For in his Resurrection form the dead all that weakness and mortality of the Flesh that came on the Nature of man by the first Adams sin and fall which he for a time was subject to in being partakers with us of Flesh Blood it was put off from him that he should no more return to it And so his body is become in a full and Glorious sence Spiritual Gloriously filled with the Spirit of Life and Power yea Immortal a Glorious body he being therein glorified with the Fathers own self and all by vertue of that his once suffering for our sins in the Fâ—esh in which he shed his blood and therein powered out his Soul unto Death laying down his Natural Mortal and Adam-like Life in the Flesh that he might take it again in the Spirit and Glory of the Father by which he was quickened raised from the dead now no more to return to corruption Yet still this raised and Glorious body is humane the body of a man even the man Christ Jesus having Flesh and bones hands and feet which by way of distinction from others and eminency above them is called his flâ—sh and his bones And had these men believed either the great Mystery as now revealed that God was manifested in the flesh in the words being made flesh and dwelling amongst men or the Resurrection of the body of Christ that dyed they would neither have cavelled at the denying his body to be carnal as if it could not stand with the acknowledgement of this man continuing for ever nor have spoken so contemptuously of the Glorious body of Christ And so neither would they have added this following query Is not a fleshly body Carnal To which we further Answer 1. Fleshly and carnal do not alwayes signify the same thing in Scripture for we read of a heart of flesh and fleshly Tables of the Heart Ezek. 36. 26. 2 Cor. 3. 3. whereby fleshly cannot be meant carnal but tender and fit to receive his impression or writing as opposed to a stony hard or carnal heart And though sometimes such expressions as to be flesh or fleshly named after it may be used to signify the weakness and brittleness of the outward man or a helpless withering worthlesse and decaying state which may stand with carnality in Scripture sence though distinct from it because all flesh in its present state is as Grass and the goodlinesse thereof as the flower of the Field fading and withering but the word of the Lord that was made flesh who is the spiritual and heavenly man and he abides for ever Yea though also sometimes a fleshly Mind and fleshly Lusts are equivalent with carnal mindedness and lusts as Rom. 8. 5. to 8. Col. 2. 18. 1 Pet. 2. 11 Yet 2. To have flesh and to be fleshly or named after it is two things whether we take flesh as signifying the outward man or body of man that hath flesh and bones and that whether as natural from Adam or as raised from the dead for there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body and both have flesh though not of or in the same quality or if we take flesh as Signifying the natural Sinfulness or carnal mind as the word is used for both yet to have flesh in either sence and to be fleshly or named after the flesh are not the same nor alwayes meeting in the same person The Apostles did live and walk in the flesh or natural body yet did not war after the flesh nor was fleshly or carnal in their knowings speakings or actings 2 Cor. 10. 3 4. with chap. 1 12 13 and 5. 16. Gal 2 20. with Phil. 1 2â— 24. and yet also they had flesh in the last sence even natural sinfulnesse and carnality still dwelling in them in their flesh members or outward man as from Adam though they were not reckoned after it nor did walk in or after it but did mind and walk in and after the spirit and so were not carnal but Spiritual
is that blood if not in Christs flesh as you affirmed seeing that men must drink the blood of Christ as well as eat his Flesh or else they have no life in them Answ They have hitherto intimated their corrupt minde against the personall and now Glorious body of Christ and against the heavens in which it is as onely designing to cast him down from his Excellency now they proceed to imply and privily cast out their venom against the blood of Christ as if that blood that was shed is personal sufferings to the sheding of his blood and death of the Cross were not the drink indeed and purger of the conscience for so in their supposition they imply that as a question whether that blood of Christ that was shed be the drink indeed c. And then frame their following question of purpose to deny or make it void from being so for if it be so say they then where is it c In which as in the former they imply that men cannot eat his flesh and drink his blood except it be in a sencible being present with them nigh to or in them and so consequently deny that blood of his Cross that was shed for the Remission of sins to be the drink indeed and the purger of the conscience because it is not now shedding and so as much deny his flesh that was broken and the preparing and giving it to be bruised wounded and broken for our transgressions to be meat indeed because those works and sufferings therein are finished and past and not doing or to be done over again in that person or any other and so cannot be in a present or sencible being nigh to in or with any man 2. They still to cast reproach upon it further imply that if that blood that was shed be the drink indeed and so consequently if that body of his flesh be meat indeed then the eating or drinking must be in a natural or sensual manner like as natural meat and drink is eaten and drunk For this they fully signifie the blood that was shed cannot be drunk except in its material being it be in Christs flesh or somewhere else nigh to men in a present material existence For if that blood that was shed say they be the drink indeed then where is it if not in Christs flesh as they say we affirmed but they say falsly for we oft declared that as the Blood of Christ is the bottom ground or foundation of our Faith or that by means of which he is so and so as it is the drink indeed c. Even so it is in Heaven with the Father even in Christs personal Glorious Body But that is not in a material and mortal existence or being of it in his flesh and with it as here he was partakers of Flesh and Blood but in the infinite vertue and preciousness of its being shed and so his sufferings once suffered in the flesh are for ever accepted and remembered with the Father and his Body Glorified and immeasurably fil'd with the Eternal Spirit yea he therein made a quickening Spirit for and to us and all by means of his death the vertue and preciousnesse of which remains for ever and so the Fruit of it and grace in and through it which also as we hinted before may be called his Blood as being the Fruit of it and things procured and purchased by it But then also in this their reproach 3. That which they add as a Reason why Christs Blood that was shed must be in his flesh if it be the drink indeed c. Namely that men must drink it shewes their folly for the necessity of drinking his Blood can be no Argument that his Blood is in his flesh as before it was shed for as so it was in a materiall being in his flesh and mixed with it it cannot be drunk in a sensuall or naturall way of drinking as they would signifie it must if that be the drink indeed it is rather to be drunk as shed and powered out for us We read of eating flesh with the Blood in it a thing forbidden in the Law but of drinking Blood in the flesh we read not but in their nonsencical language Yea 4. In the whole of this question they imply an immagination that there is some other Blood of Christ besides that which was shed or his Blood shedding and death once suffered in the flesh and that that other Blood is the drink indeed and the purger of the conscience and so consequently that there is some other flesh or Body of his flesh besides that which was broken for us which and not the former is the meat indeed And so they in their immagination make void his once suffering in the flesh in that one body so prepared for him as before as of no abiding vertue or efficacy with the Father for the taking away our sins and so for the Spiritual feeding of the believer now to this they render the Crosse of Christ of no effect that they may lift up something else in the name and place of it For further answer therefore to this Question and for the help of others we here add to what former demonstrations we have given of the flesh of Christ that is meat indeed and of his Blood that is drink indeed 1. That there is no other flesh of Christ that is meat indeed but that one Body of his Flesh that was prepared given and broken for us even his Flesh that he gave for the Life of the World nor any other Blood of Christ that is drink indeed but that Blood or death of the Cross that shedding of his Blood and powering out his Soul unto death which he once suffered in that his own Body for our sins without which we could have had no remission of them that he obtaining by it plenteous Redemption even the forgivenesse of sins might therein also seal and confirm the new Testament of precious promises and become himself in the man the Mediator of it and so an high Priest for ever after the order of Melchizedeck It is onely his being made flesh in that one Body prepared for him and his works and sufferings finished in that his own body in which he appeared once in the end of the World to put away sin by the Sacrifice of himself which the Father hath found out and accepted as a ransom or price of Redemption for sinful and fallen mankind and by means of which he hath given him glory in that his own Body in which he so Suffered that our Faith and Hope might be in God and therefore also it is onely that Cross of Christ because of the infinite grace therein testified which is commended and shed abroad by the Holy Ghost in his evidencing it as already past as to the actual enduring and suffering it in that in due time Christ dyed for the ungodly c. Rom. 5. 5. 10. and because of the Infinite vertue and
M. his Assertion was That as the blood of Christ is in heaven with the Father in the sense above expressed so it s the ground and foundation of our Faith it being that by means of which he is so and so we still say that the blood or sufferings of Christ and he through and by means thereof being raised from the dead and glorified in the same body in which he bare our sins without which his sufferings could have done us no good is the foundation of our faith it seems it is not of theirs and so they have not faith in his blood as the Apostles preached Rom. 3. 25. their faith is founded in something else and so they are men of dangerous Principles beware of them 6. T. M. They further say affirmed That the life of Christ is not in the blood of Christ whence they infer that the Foundation of our faith hath not the life of Christ in it Ans This also is a deceitful abuse and falsifying of his words which were in answer to their assertion That the blood of Christ is nothing else but the life of Christ the Spirit or power of God bringing those Scriptures for proof that speaking not so much as of man in his mortal state but of other mortal creatures say the blood is the life and the life of the flesh is in the blood Gen. 9. 4. Lev. 17. 11. In answer to which T. M. said that the life of Christs personal body which body they deny is not in or by the supply of material blood as the life of mortal creatures yet he said that the eternal life and redemption in Christ for us is the fruit of his blood being obtained by it So that their conclusion hath not the least colour from his saying but is contradicted by it for the material blood that was shed as to its present locallity or place of being as to its matter is not the foundation of our faith in whole or in part but his bloodshed or sufferings to the pouring out his soul to death for our sins and he by vertue thereof as is before said 7. T. M. affirmed say they again that the light wherewith Christ lighteth every man is both natural and spiritual Ans That Christ is the true light that lighteth every man coming into the world and that the light which he giveth or wherewith he lighteth them is all that is truly called light and good whether natural or spiritual we did and do assert as truth their denial of which implies an evil Principle held by them Viz. That they deprive Christ of the glory of being the Author and giver either of the natural light or good or of the spiritual 8. T. M. say they said That the person of Christ namely of flesh and bones is a quickning spirit and dwells in the beleevers by faith and to prove it he said that the Corinthians dwelt in the heart of Paul Ans There again they falsifie and pervert his sayings which were that the person of Christ that had and hath flesh and bones a person of flesh and bones we call him not that 's the term they put upon him by way of derision and reproach even Jesus Christ who was made of the seed of David according to the flesh is declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead even in the same body in which he bare our sins on the tree and he the second man the last Adam is made a quickning spirit which was answered against their seeking privily to insinuate to the people that that body of his flesh was abolished or annihilated so that now he hath not that body or possesses not his glory therein to shew the vanity and wickedness of their indeavours wherein it was urged that the manhood or body of his flesh is not annihilated by his becomming a quickning Spirit it being the man Christ Jesus the last Adam that 's made a quickning Spirit yea it s because this man continues for ever in the name glory of the Father for us that he hath an unchangeable Priesthood and is able to save to the utmost them that come to God by him God having given to the Son of man to have life in himself even as the Son hath life in himself As to the other part of the charge T. M. his saying was that its the man Christ Jesus as thus considered as a distinct person personally or bodily distant from them so as they are absent from him while they are at home in the mortal body that is and dwels in the beleevers heart by faith To their sensual scoffing at which as not being able to comprehend by their sensual imagination how such a thing might be such matters of faith being too high for them as even the least things in the wisedome of God are too high for a fool that seeks to be wise in himself we brought that of the Corinths and the Philippians being in the Apostles hearts by love 2 Cor. 7. 3. Philip. 1. 7. not to prove that Christ dwells in the beleevers hearts by faith that 's fully and plainly the assertion of the Scripture and needs no other proof Eph. 3 17. 2 Cor. 5. 7. But for illustration and discovery of the thing to the weakest of them whom they indeavoured to subvert to shew them how one might dwell in the heart of another and yet be personally distinct and as to bodily presence distant also 1 Thes 2. 17. But mind Reader that these men do flatly oppose the dwelling of the man Christ as a quickning spirit in the hearts of the beleevers by Faith which had they not been blinded with Antichristian Babilonish confusion they would not have done plainly therein without covert contradicting the Spirit in the Apostle that with so great earnestness prayed for the Ephesians That Christ might dwell in their hearts by faith but its manifest that these men know not what faith is but take it for a beleeving something of God or Christ from a knowing or experimenting it in themselves as the Devils believe James 2. 19. Which yet is not faith or having faith and their after abuse of and clipping 1 John 5. 10. in their p. 1. Gives occasion to think they take it so or for sense or sight as many of their words import but did they know that believing is the receiving a thing from a report and that every believing is not faith in Scripture account Prov. 14 15 2 Thes 2. 11. But the hearty believing of that report in which the true and saving Object of faith is set forth and brought nigh Isa 53. 1. John 7. 37 38. Rom. 10. 8 9 10. Whence believing receives the denomination of faith they would not thus have said and writ for those that are willing to understand this business we shall here take liberty to open what the Object of faith is which is often called faith though of many not believed and what
forth his advice and thoughts which he sayes the Lord commanded not but he and speaks therein as one that thought he had the Spirit of God to guide him therein 1 Cor. 7 12 13 14 15 16 25 26 40. and when he wills Believers not to despise prophecyings he bids try all things and hold fast that that is good as implying that even in those that prophecy according to Truth as to the main fundamentals of it for others prophecyings are to be despised and rejected and counted accursed Gal. 1. 8 9. yet there may be possibly some things of mans thoughts and mistakes creep in and therefore from such we ought not to swallow down for Truth all that they say or conceive because they say it but to try what is said and accordingly as we see Truth in it receive it but their tryal of what T. M. said doth not discover it to be unsound onely they discover themselves void of judgement for may it be as well said Adam had no life in Paradise as no blood Is there no more said of his having life then of his having blood Is it not said he breathed into him the breath of life and he became a living Soul Is it not said God gave him commandment what to eat and what to forbear And he called the beasts by their names and slept and waked c. Are not these certain demonstrations that he had life But is there any such saying that demonstrates he had blood he said not of his wife this is flesh of my flesh and blood of my blood had it been so said T. M. would have been as far from supposing him to have had no blood then as now he is from supposing him to have had no life But how prove they that Adam had Blood Why Blood is the Life T. M. may answer it is so in the fallen state follows it it was so there Is there no difference between is now and was then They add he made of one blood all Nations but neither doth that cross T. Ms. apprehensions for there was no Nation nor man made of Adam before his fall he fell before he propagated and so by T. Ms. conception too had Blood for them to be made of before they were made of him and as to that question Whether we believe there was no blood left in Christs Body when crucified How should we certainly believe what is not revealed some judge it probable there was not because it is said after his side was pierced forthwith came there out Blood and water water is mentioned last as if the Blood might be all drained out till water followed it but we do not make that an Article of our Creed that it was so we find some good men that had the oversight of the Churches here in Queen Elizabeth and the following dayes did not dis-believe or deny such a conception for it is Printed amongst those Songs and Hymns set before or after the Psalms in the Complaint of a Sinner thus The Scripture doth declare no drop of blood in thee For that thou didst not spare to shed each drop for me T is probable had they thought it an error they would scarce have let it be printed there But this is of those things of which it use to be said quisquis suo sensu abundet let every man judge as he is perswaded in his own minde What they say of T. Ms. denying Christs Body to be a carnal Body and opposing hereto his own words and the Priests mentioning Priest Higginson and others affirming that Christ is in Heaven with a Carnal Body is erroneous too For though T. M. denyed his Body to be carnal as he did well to do yet that did not contradict his saying it is a Body that hath Flesh and Bones in it glorified for fleshly and carnal are not alwayes one and the same carneum and carnale differ as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Greek sure an heart of flesh that the Lord promises is not a carnal heart Ezek. 36. 26. What Priest Higginson and others affirmed we know not its probable they bely him and them as they stick not to do us That the Body of Christ is seen and known onely with that by which God is seen and known hath this unsavoury conception intimated in it that Christs Body is as spiritual and invisible to a bodily eye as God who is a Spirit and not a Body is But how then did Paul see him raised and could witnesse it if he be as invisible to the humane eye as God is Or if he see nothing that ever was dead and that he was seen of Paul as a person raised from the dead is plain in 1 Cor. 15. 4 5. 8. and 9. 1. sure Paul was not the last to whom Christ was seen by Faith and as spiritually demonstrated to the Soul no nor the last of those to whom Christ was so seen in those times Therefore when he sayes he was seen of him last he must needs mean it of his Body seen and seen by Bodily sight as the other Apostles see him by Bodily sight or else he must speak very inconsistently with himself which we may not grant In our pag. 12. I mistook in my hast and writ Job for Elihu which with my Pen I corrected too in divers Books before I gave them out after I minded it yet they declaim against this as if it was some hainous fault They say It was Elihu who was one that spake against Job for Job knew God when they that came against him did not And so they mention with an addition of a lye of their own that I pleaded for sin in it a Lettter to Elizabeth Vnderwood where I brought Eliphaz his words that say His Angels he charged with folly for which G. W. charges me J. H. because Eliphaz was one against whom Gods wrath was kindled and who spake not the thing of God that was right To which charges I say to the first of them First I confesse my self a man and subject to forgetfulness and oversights especially when in hast with businesse and so I did in my forgetfulnesse write the word Job for Elihu because the Book doth wholly bear the Title of Job But Secondly what great error was in that seeing Elihu was an holy man as well as Job and came not against Job otherwise then God himself after did to reprove him for some rash expressions which Job also afterward acknowledged his evil in and Job as much implyed his not knowing God in the sense Elihu speaks of in Job 42. 3. I have uttered sayes he that I understood not and things too wonderful for me and Elihu speaks as much of his knowing God as Job Job 32. 18. I am full of matter the spirit within me constraineth me c. and 33. 3. 6. my words shall be of the uprightness of my heart my lips shall utter knowledge clearly which he could
given and broken for us and so alwayes to be remembered and fed upon by us Luke 22. 19. 1 Cor. 11 24. John 6. 5â— Again by his Blood as distinguished from his flesh is meant that blood of his Crosse which was shed for us for the Remission of sins Col â— 14. 20. Mat. 26. 28. Not only nor so directly his being sometime partakers of material and mortal blood in that body of his flesh that is included in the forementioned sence of his flesh as distinguished from his blood and when mentioned together with it such blood being in and with his flesh all the dayes of his mortallity untill his death in which it was so fully shed forth and powered out that water followed but by his blood as distinct from his flesh is directly meant his humbling himself to that death in the finishing of his sufferings wherein that blood in which was his natural life in the flesh as of man was shed and so therein his Soul or Life in the flesh powered out yeilded up and laid down for our sins that were caused to meet together upon him that so he might by means of that his death in the flesh take his Life again in the Power of God and live for ever in the Glory of his Father even in that raised body of his flesh And this is very usual in the Scripture by blood to signifie the shedding of blood to Death or the natural and bodily death by any other means so Abels death by Cain called his blood Gen. 4. 10. with Heb. 12. 24. So Naboths death by stoning called his blood 2 Kings 9. 2â— generally the Martyrdom and death of the Servants of God for his sake 2 Kings 9. 7. Deut. 32. 43. Psal 72. 14. with Psal 116. 15. Yea the natural or bodily Death however it come on a man is called his blood Psal 30. 9. Heb. 12. 4. So also that by Christs own blood the blood of his Crosse by which peace was made Redemption obtained and so by which he entered into Heaven it self and so by the Spirituall sprinkling of which in the Preaching of the Crosse he purgeth the conscience is meant his Death his shedding of his blood his once suffiring even to the death of the Crosse his being put to death in the flesh see it in the foreceited Scriptures Col. 1. 14 20. Mat. 26. 28. with Phil. 2. 8. 1 Pet. 2. 24 and 3. 18. so also in Heb 9. 2. 14. with ver 15 16. 22. 26. Again Secondly By the distinct mention of his flesh and blood is signified some distinct considerations of the ends and powerfull efficacies of his own suffering in that body of his flesh for our sins As 1. For making peace and atonement with God for our sins in which we have all sinned in the disobedience of one and in which we are from thence become altogether filthy and as such justly banished and dead at Law and so it s said he gave his flesh for the life of the World and by suffering the judgement of this World and being made a Curse for us he hath abolished death obtained a Redemption and release of mankinde from under the power of that judgement that came on all in and by the first man Adam and so from the curse of the Law to be under his dispose and judgement by whom the Kingdom of God is brought unto us that through him we might be saved As the offence of one was unto all to condemnation so the Righteousnesse of one in laying down his Life that he might take it again is unto all to Justification of Life from under the power of the first death and banishment that they may not perish therein or be held out from God thereby but that they might live to him that dyed for them and rose again Rom. 5. 18. 2 Cor. 5. 1â— 15. 19. Col. 1. 20. John 6. 51. and 12. 31 32. Gal. 3. 13. 11. His shedding of his blood laying down his Life or powering out his Soul unto death for our sins was also to obtaine into himself for us a better life yea better then that we lost in the first Adam even Eternal Life Yea all fulnesse of all things pertaining to life and Godlinesse even the fulnesse of the Godhead bodily that of his fulnesse we might receive And so the immeasurable fulnesse of that Holy and Eternal Spirit to rest upon him in that body in which he so suffered that he should Teach sinners in the way and guide the meek in Judgement Yea further he hath by his blood or by means of that his death which was for the Redemption of the Transgressions under the first Testament obtained plentious and Eternal Redemption even the forgivenesse of such sins as are after the similitude of Adams transgression he hath received power in the name of the Father and as the fruit of his sufferings to take away such sins by his dayly appearing in the presence of God for us and so all such gifts as may serve for the good of the Rebellious while it is to day for forbearing and renewing mercies to them that yet through him they might be saved and that he might be just and the Justifier of him that believeth in Jesus even from such sins yea from all things from which they could not be justified by the Law of Moses And so he is a Saviour from the wrath to come being now by means of his death a Mediator and propitiation for such sins as deserve it John 17. 4 5. 1 John 5. 11. Heb. 9. 12. Col. 1. 14. 19. and 2. 9. Acts 2. 33. Psal 68. 18 19. with Ephes 4. 8. 10. Heb. 9. 15. 1 Thes 1. 10. 1 John 2. 2. He was bruised wounded and put to death in the body of his flesh for our transgressions that through death he might abolish death in his Resurrection and make such peace and healing for us that through him we might be delivered and saved that were all our life time through fear of death subject to bondage Yea therefore also he shed his blood and powered out his Soul unto death that he might by vertue thereof obtaine and receive into himself a better even Eternal life for us with all such gifts for men yea for the Rebellious also as was needful that yet while it is to day they might be brought back to God and that he might be able to save to the utmost them that come to God by him 2. This his flesh and his blood was evidenced to be meat indeed and drink indeed for men spiritually to feed upon by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead and his offering up his spotlesse body a Ransom or price of Redemption once for all as being made perfect through sufferings and his being accepted and set down on the Right hand of God and Glorified with the Fathers own self Immeasurebly filled with all gifts in the man for men as before we have shewed all as the fruit of