at the right hand of his Father and there maketh intercession for us executing alone the office of a true and lawfull Preist and Mediator and from thence hee hath a care of his people and governeth his Church adorning and enriching her with many blessings Wee beleive that without Faith no man can bee saved but that wee call Faith which in CHRIST IESVS justifieth which the life and death of our Lord IESVS CHRIST procured the Gospell published and without which no man can please God Wee beleive that the Church which is called Catholicke containeth all true beleivers in Christ which being departed are in their Countrey in heaven or living on earth are yet travayling in the way the Head of which Church because a mortall man by no meanes can be Iesus Christ is the Head alone and he holdeth the stâ—rne of the Government of the Church in his owne 〈◊〉 but because on earth there bee particular Visible Churches and in order every one of them hath one cheife which cheife is not properly to bee called a Head of that particular Church but improperly because hee is the principall Member thereof Wee beleive that the Members of the Catholicke Church bee the Saints chosen vnto eternall life from the number and fellowshippe of whom Hypocrites are excluded though in particular visible Churches Tares may bee found amongst the Wheate Wee beleive that the Church on earth is sanctified and instructed by the Holy Ghost for hee is the true Comforter whom Christ sendeth from the Father to teach the truth and to expell darkenesse from the vnderstanding of the Faithfull For it is very certaine that the Church of God may erre taking falshood for truth from which errour the light and doctrine of the holy Spirit alone freeth us not of mortall man although by Mediation of the labours of the Churches Ministers this may bee done Wee beleive that a man is justified by Faith and not by workes but when wee say by Faith wee vnderstand the correlative or object of Faith which is the righteousnesse of Christ which Faith apprehends and applyeth unto us for our Salvation This may very well bee and yet without any prejudice to good workes for Truth it selfe teacheth us that workes must not bee neglected that they bee necessary meanes and testimonies of our Faith for confirmation of our calling but for workes to bee sufficient for our salvation and to make a man so to appeare before the Tribunall of Christ that of condignity or merit they conferre salvation humane frailty witnesseth to bee false but the righteousnesse of Christ being applyed to the penitent doth onely justifie and save the faithfull Wee beleive that free will is dead in the vnregenerate because they can doe no good thing and whatsoever they doe is sinne but in the regenerate by the grace of the Holy Spirit the will is excited and indeed worketh but not without the asistance of grace to effect that therefore which is good grace goeth before the will which will in the regenerate is wounded as hee by the theeues that came from Hierusalem so that of himselfe without the helpe of grace hee hath no power to doe any thing Wee beleive that there bee Evangelicall Sacraments in the Church which the Lord hath instituted in the Gospell and they be two wee have no larger number of Sacraments because the Ordayner thereof delivered no more Furthermore wee beleive that they consist of the Word and the Element that they bee seales of the promises of GOD and wee doubt not but doe conferre grace But that the Sacrament bee entire and whole it is requisite that an earthly substance and an externall action doe concurre with the vse of that element ordained by Christ our Lord and joyned with a true faith because the defect of faith doth prejudice the integritie of the Sacraments We beleive that Baptisme is a Sacrament instituted by the LORD which vnlesse a man hath receaued he hath not communion with Christ from whose death buriall and glorious Resurrection the whole vertue and efficacy of Baptisme doth proceed therefore in the same forme wherein our LORD hath commaunded in the Gospell wee are certaine that to those who bee Baptized both Originall and Actuall sinnes are pardoned so that whosoever haue beene washed In the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the Holy Ghost are regenerate cleansed and justified But concerning the repetition of it wee haue no commaund to bee rebaptized therefore wee must absteine from this inconuenience Wee beleive that the other Sacrament was ordained of the LORD which wee call the Eucharist For in the Night wherein hee was betrayed taking bread and blessing it hee said to his Apostles Take yee cate this is my body and when hee had taken the Cuppe hee gaue thankes and said Drinke yee all of this this is my blood which was shed for many doe this in remembrance of mee And Paul addeth for as often as yee shall eate of this bread and drinke of this Cuppe yee doe shew the LORDS death this is the pure and lawfull institution of this wonderfull Sacrament in administration whereof wee confesse and professe a true and Reall presence of CHRIST our LORD but yet such a one as Faith offereth to vs not such as deuised transubstantiation teacheth For wee beleive the faithfull doe eate the body of CHRIST in the Supper of the Lord not by breaking it with the teeth of the body but by perceiuing it with the sence and feeling of the Soule sith the body of CHRIST is not that which is Visible in the Sacrament but that which Faith spiritually apprehendeth and offereth to vs from whence it is true that if wee beleive wee doe eate and partake if wee doe not beleive wee are destitute of all the fruite of it Wee beleive consequently that to drinke the Cuppe in the Sacrament is to bee partaker of the true blood of our Lord IESUS CHRIST in the same manner as wee affirmed of the body for as the Author of it commanded concerning his body so he did concerning his blood which commaundement ought neither to bee dismembred nor maymed according to the fancy of mans arbitrement yea rather the institution ought to bee kept as it was deliuered to vs when therefore wee have beene partakers of the body and blood of CHRIST worthily and haue communicated entirely wee acknowledge our selues to bee reconciled united to our Head of the same body with certaine hope to bee coheires in the Kingdome to come Wee beleive that the soules of the dead are either in blessâ—dnesse or in damnation according as every one hath done for assoone as they remoue out of the body they passe either to Christ or into hell for as a man is found at his death so he is judged and after this life there is neither power nor opportunity to repent in this life there is a time of Grace they therefore who be iustified heere shall suffer no punishment hereafter but they
sim 4. 10 and others fall from heaven to earth and yet the Apostles and Diseiples adhere to their Master When the whole world in a manner communicated with the Arians were none safe but Athanasius Å¿ Athanas in epist ad solitaâ—â—am vitam agentes Christi standiosi vt magnus ille Pâ—pheta Elias abscondebantur in speluncas cavernas terrae sese abstrudebant aut in solitudine oberrantes commorabantur Hieronymâ—â—on Luciferian Ingemuerit totus Orbis Arianum se â—â—se miratus sit Gregorius Valent Analys l 6. cap. 4 § Probatio 4 Novimus c. cum Arianorum perfidia in orbe penè to to dominabatur c not those which were ignorant of their heresies who if they had knowne them would have abhorred their corruptions t Aug. epist 162. ad Donat Qui sententiam suam quamvis falsam perversam nulla pertinaci animositate defendunt 〈◊〉 quam non aâ—daciâ— praesumptionis 〈◊〉 pepererunt sed à seductis aâ—qâ—e in errorem lapsis parentibus acceperunt quaerunt autem cautâ soliciâ—udine veritatem corrigi parati cum invenerint nequaquam sunt inter Haereticoâ— reputandi Were all the Papists in Queene Elizabeths time damned which joyned in Communion with the Churches of England and Ireland The learned Primate is not so vncharitable as to judge perdition to everie one in the Roman Communion and yet hee doubteth not but that the Apostasie was there Who knowes not that the Roman Pale includeth a Church as well as a Faction and though at the best it bee but a Pest-house as the most reverend Primate fitlie styles it yet hee doth not thinke it impossible but that some poore Soules which had more love to Christ then knowledge of the Doctrine of Popish faith might through the mercy of God u Cypr. Epist 63 13. Si quis de anteeessoribus nostris vel ignorantèr vel simplicitèr non hoc observavit tenuit quod nos Dominus facere exemplo magiâ—â—erio 〈◊〉 docuit potest simplicitati ejus de indulgentia Domini venia concedi nobis verò â—â—â—â—â—terit ignosci qui nunc à Domino admoniti instructi simus escape such infection and contagion which is deadly and mortall whereas the poyson of Apostasie will never leave the grand Masters till it hath brought them to confusion and ruine And this is all he speaketh for the Iesuite's Religion But hoping wee will not charge them with an vtter Revolt he enquires whether wee by Apostasie vnderstand Heresies which doe not so openly oppose the foundation of Christian faith but come cloked with Hypocrisie and vnder the name of Pietie for if wee acknowledge this then howsoever some Heresies doe oppose the foundation of Christian faith more openly then others yet all of them doe still come cloked with the name of Pietie and have beene alwayes observed by the diligent watchmen of Gods house in their very beginnings Reply pag. 6. How doth this take away the learned Primate's just exception For while he distinguisheth of Heresies that oppose the foundation some more and some lesse openly and all cloked with Pietie and vrgeth that all these open heresies were observed in their beginnings what doth hee proove but that which was confessed before For wee acknowledge that Heresie whether more or lesse openly opposite to the foundation hath beene more or lesse observed 〈◊〉 by the Pastors of the Church but yours are of an other nature they were not Heresies at the first but seedes onely or at least appeared not to be so but came in as Pietie when Heresie was closed and sealed vp in a Mysterie and not seene at all Besides this there is nothing vrged by the Iesuite of any weight to take away this Answere He sayth that all Heresies came cloked with the name of Piety and for this he bring three examples to proove his generall conclusion The first of Origen for the salvation of Divels The second he imputeth to Tertullian which was begunne by Montanus y Alphons de Castro adver Haer lib 11. De nuptiis Hujus haeresis authores sunt Cataphryges quo rum princeps fuit Montanus Eundem errorem postea docuit Tertullianusqui ersâ— prius contra Cataphryges pro hae re pugna verat posteatamen ad Caâ—aphryges iediit eorum defendens errorem Bzovius ann 172. Porro quod dogmata Montani attinet sunt haec deâ—inia quae docebat Secundas nuptias velut forâ—â—cationem damnabat c. against second Marriage The third Montanus his rigorous fasts z Pag. 6. Which kinde of arguing as it is not concludent for how followeth it that because three heresies have a shew of Pietie therefore all So the same makes nothing against the Answerer it being granted For who doubteth that Heretickes have alwayes pretended Pietie and that their birthes have beene so presented to the world that they have borne some shew of truth and further that judgments not divinely enlightened have received them many times with religious applause and yet they have beene resisted and opposed by those which had more cleare eyes and could see aright But doth it therefore follow that the bundle of Heresies included in the grand Apostasie wrought by the man of Sinne at different times in a mysterie which must expect a time for Revelation * 2. Thess 2â— 6. 7. should be detected in the first houre of their birth by circumstances of person time and place Many heresies have carried a shew of Pietie but some have beene so mystically delivered that they have received her name Some with their shewe cannot hide their substance their expresse contradiction of Scripture as those of Origen and Montanus which displeased every weake eye and therefore in these circumstances required might easily be detected But these mysticall a Anselmâ— in â— Thess 2. Mysterium quia viderur occultum quia tales operarii ostendunt se velut ministros aut famulos Christi cùm revera sint ministri Antichristi Nam iniquitas â—orum est mystica id est pictatis nomine palliâ—ta ones are of another nature so cloaked that their impietie was hid so presented to the world that they are accompted Piety if you demaund their mother as the Saracens Sarah they dare cry the Church if their Father as the Pharisees to Abraham * Ioh. 8. 39. they dare looke to heaven if you question their Antiquity they like the Gibeonites †Iosh 9. 3. â—â— pretend the Apostles and plead the Apocrypha if Vniuersalitie they are travaylers and as they say throughout the world yet this is but Orbis Romanus the Roman Church Doe you thinke these Vagrants and Wanderers which can bush and brake for their owne safetie are so easily detected as those down-right youths which in their first appearance tell what they are by their face and compleâ—â—â—â— Is there no difference betweene a face muffled with pretences barely and painted with equivocall colours It is not pretending Pietie in heresie neither
that building which the Iesuite hopes to erect by his collected Invectives First that the learned Divines in generall in reformed Churches by the auncient Fathers exampleâ— doe from their heart detest the pollutions and corruptions of the world insomuch that they cannot treate of them but with detestation denying all honour to them though their owne by communion that live not after the puritie of the doctrine of their profession which wee cannot finde among the Papisâ—es they commending sinne Baron aâ— 1100. n. 14. De 〈◊〉 â—â—liâ— Imperatoris Quis negare poterit summum fuisse hoc pietatis genus in hoc se exhibuisse crudelem Immo ex â—â— quod non firmioribus vinculis strinxerit c. nihil habes in quo damnes filiâ—â— magis quam si vehementi febre phrenetico delirenti infanienti furentique pius fiâ—â—â—s inâ—iciat vincula patri â—verè intuitu pietatis ut facere prae se tulit ea omnia praestitit collerating uncleanenesse x Espencâ—â—us in Epast ad Titum c. 1. p. 67. Prostat in quaestu pro meretrice sedet liber palam ac publicê hic impressus hodicque ut olim venalis Taxa Camorae seu Canceilariae Apostolicae inscriptus in quo plus scelerum diseas licet quam in omnibus omnium vitiorum summistis et summarijs et plurimis quidem licentiâ— omnibus autem absolutio â—â—pturientibus proposita protecting abominable wretches as lately in the Venetian State y Historia Interdicti Vencti lib 1. p. 7 8. â— Reply p. 74 and if any hath either declaimed against or abhorred the base lives of their Clergie which is but seldome they have beene suspected as no good Catholickes for the same Againe wee by his testimonies may see that Reformed Churches by doctrine or connivencie doe not tollerate those evills which they declaime against as the Papistes doe whereby it can cast no impeachment upon their doctrine Thirdly the cause of these evills is declared by Iacobus Andrâ—â— to bee because the severe discipline of the Church hath beene formerly disgraced by Conscience-tyrannie and oppression in the Romane Churchâ— so that there is no correction of sinne but the People feare a Papall tyrannie Fourthly the Iesuite hath taken advantage of some points in controversie betwixt those that they stile Lutherans and Calvinists making use of eithers passions to disgrace the good life and sincerity of both Now for his charge of Atheisme I feare we have cause to suspect there are some amongst us I meane in our Kingdomes All doe not beleive the Gospell and the Ministers of Sathan have their worke heerein But that which the Iesuite would lay to our charge may bee seene in every corner of Italy We have not nourished one Machiavel that the Iesuite can produce nor one Iohn that denyed the immortalitie of the soule He hath not espyed one amongst us that hath called the Gospell Fabulam de Christâ— Yet if there be any such as from the loose conversation of some may bee suspected I am sure they play their part in secret as the foole in the Psalmist that said in his heart There is no God * Psal 24. 1. These things duely considered and weighed may shew that the Reformation doth more detest and abhorre sinne then give any encouragement unto it Besides wee see that the exclamation against sinne is no argument that sinne is in the budde and flourish but in her ruine and decay So that all the Iesuite can saye from these testimonyes is this that as those pious men assaulted the Kingdome of Anti-Christ by the opposall of such corruptions of Doctrine as did get footing in their schisme of Rome so did they labour afterwardes to extirpate and roote out those fruites of Idolatrie and Superstition wicked life open prophanesse and all kinde of filthy and notorious demeanour But if wee should graunt all to bee true which the Iesuite urgeth hee argueth vainelie in labouring to disgrace the profession of the Gospell because some of their Communion are of dissolute lives For if this Argument were good wee should quickly make Rome the Synagogue of Sathan far from the Church of God For how many have shewed the cheife Pilots in your Church to have beene in many successions the most notorious wicked wretches that ever the earth did beare some of them for saking S. Peters wayes a Pâ—aâ—â—â—a in vit Iohan X Pontifices ipsi à Petri veâ—tigijs discessâ—runt others being monsters and unnaturall b Idem in vita Benedicti 4. Vbi cum ipsis opibus lasciâ—ire coepit Ecclesia Dei versis ejus cuâ—toribus à severitate ad lasâ—iviam peperit nobis tanta licentia peccandi haec portenta à quibus ambitione largitione sanctisâ—ma Petri sedes occupata est potius quam possessâ— Idem in vit Christopher 1. Ponâ—â—fices tanquam monstra quaedam è medio Deus sustulit Idem in vit Sergij III. Vide quaeso quantum isti degeneraverint à majoribus sâ—â—s yea prodigionsly wicked c Geneb Chron l. 4 Nihil mirum si isti Pontifices prodigiosi essent Sylvester the second giving himselfe to the Divell d Platina in vita Sylvestri II. Diabolum secutus curse totum tradiderat and doing him homage Martinus Polon ann 1007. Sylvester II. diabolo homagium fecit ut sibi omnia ad votum succederent Iohn the XIIIth abounded in all wickednes f See before pag. 107. no Catiline Nero or Heliogabalus like unto him so that if he was not a baptised Turk yet he was worse in the judgment of your owne for he died of a wound given him by the Divell in the act of adulterie as your owne report it g Luitprand Tiein l. 6. c. 11. Dum se cum câ—jusdam viri uxâ—â—â— obleâ—â—â—ret in temporibus adeò â— Diabolo est percussus ut intra dierum octâ— spatium â—odem sit vulnere mortuus What was Boniface the seaventh but a Villaine a Church-Robber a Theife a murderer of two Popes as good as Sylla and Cataline I rayle not it is Baronius his Rhetoricke h Baron ann 985. n. 1. Auâ—umerandum potius interfamâ— sos latrones et potentissimos grassâ—tores atque patriae perditores Syllas et Catâ—linas â—oâ—umque similes quos omnes superavit sacrilegus iste turpissima â—ecâ— duorum Pontificum Besides Alexander the VI. what vertues what holinesse did hee shine with I will speake no more of them as having shewed what they were before But for your Cardinals what holinesse was enclosed in their purple habites They were Pride it selfe and acted it yea the most excellent exemplars to paint it by By their Wickednesse horrible schisme was brought into the Church And for the unmeasurable and bottomlesse gulfe of their covetous desire who can by words sufficiently expresse it besides their Simoniacall intercessions to the Pope their selling of their favours for money their most shamefull and damnable â—orruptions the adulteries
wheredomes and fornications wherewith they defiled the Court of Rome and usurie in the highest degree i Nâ—ch Cleâ—â—â—ng in lib de corrupto Ecclesiae stam c. 10. Cardinalium qui Papae assident spiritus verba tumenâ—ia gestus tam sunt insolentâ—s ut si aâ—tifex quisque vellet superbiae simulachâ—um effingere nullâ congruentius tatiâ—â—â—id facere â—osset quam Cardinalis effigiâ—â— oculis inâ—â—â—â—iâ—m objectaâ—â—o Idem c. 12. Quis â—esciâ—â— â—ctionis schismaticâ— horrend am pâ—â—â—â—m per nequitiam Cardiâ—alium in Ecclesiae grâ—mium injectam c. Idem c. tâ— Quis immensam iâ—â—â—tâ—icabiâ—em voraginem ipâ—orum concupiscentiâ— ver bis â—quare valeat c. Idem c. 12. Transâ—o Simoâ—â—â—câ—â— aâ—â—d Papaâ— intercessioneâ— patrocinia veâ—alia corruptiones aut promotioneâ—â—â—â—pisâ—imâ—â— damnaâ—isâ—â—â—s quae omnes ferè istis auctoribus suasoribus â—iâ—bant c. Neâ— enumâ—rare volo câ—rum adulteria flupra â—oâ—â—icâ—â—â—ones quibus Romanam Curiâ—â—â—â—â—am nuâ—â— incâ—â—â—ant c. Neâ— refero usuras c. quâ ex causa nâ—â—mularioâ— supreme 〈…〉 non incongruâ—nâ—er â—oâ— quidam vocant And for their Cleargie how are they esteemed amongst themselves Aventine tearmes them in his time great wolves lustfull per sons adulterers ravishers of Virgins and Nunnes theives and Vsurpers Drones leacherous perfidious perjured ignorant asses wolves hypocrites k Aveâ—iniâ— l. 6. Annal. 〈◊〉 Cuâ— Oâ—iâ—â—â—apâ—oâ— â—iâ—â—â—â— luâ—â—â— liâ—idinoâ—os adulteros virginum sacratâ—rum foeminarum â—â—upra 〈…〉 cocosâ—â—â—liâ—â—â—s latroâ—â—â— argeâ—tarioâ— numâ—xâ—â—rioâ— â—ucos pecuniarum aucupes â—uâ—â—â—â—â—ditos peâ—â—â—do◠〈◊〉 literarum omnium penitus rudes imponiâ— Non audita loquoâ— â—â— quae â—isâ—e oculis video narro c. Albertus expresseth the rulers of the Church by the messengers of Antichrist supplanters of the flocke of CHRIST l Albertus in Evangel Iohan. c. 10 And how long they have continued this good opinion amongst all men the complaints and greife of men that have had any modestie in severall ages will declare m Hoâ—oriâ—â— Aâ—gust Dial. de praedest lib. Arbit Verte te ad Cives Babyloniae vide quales sint c. Alvares Pelagiâ—s de planâ—â—â— Ecclesiae Nic. 〈◊〉 de coâ—â—â—pto Ecclesi◠〈◊〉 Neâ—â—â—â— Berâ—â—â—dâ—â— alij Neither doth this age minister unto us any hope that their Doctrine is now of better efficacie though the Papacie be honoured with more glorious titles then ever it was before in regard they doe not as Luther is by them pretended to have done tearme only some dissolure persons swyne but all their Cleargie and Laytie also for so our Irish Regulars would have the Irish Bishops to be swinâ—â—erds their flock swine this being their argumeÌ„t to prove the Provincials of the Regulars to be greater Prâ—lates then the Bishops because the Pastor is knowne by his flocke Opilio digâ—ior est sâ—bâ—â—câ— A sheephâ—â—rd is better then a sâ—yâ—eheard n Consuâ—a â—â—â—iâ—ien Proâ—â—â—â— Superiores Regularium digniores sâ—nt Episcopis siquidem digâ—â—tas Pastoris petenda est ex condition◠〈◊〉 gregiâ— quemadmodum â—â—iâ—â—o dignior â—â— â—â—bulâ—o So that if the Iesuite make loosenes of conversation in some particulars an Argument against the truth of Religion and doctrine in the reformation and would thereby take away our kinred with the Primitive Church What may we conclude from the universall leprosie that hath by their owne confession over-growne both head and members throughout the Papacie But iâ— this manner of arguing from corrupt manners to corrupt doctrines be of small force as is acknowledged by themselves in so much that no inward Vertue in Bellarmines judgment is required to make one a part of the true Church o Bellarm. de Eccles miliâ—â—â—â—â— l. 3. c. 3. Vt aliquis aliquâ— modo dici possit pars veâ—â— Ecclesiae de qua Scripturâ—â— loquâ—nâ—â—r â—on â—â—taâ—â—â—s requiri ullam internam virtâ—â—eâ— Yet I am sure it is able to moderate this Vaunter from triumphing like the Pharisee God I thanke thee I am not like other men Luke â—8 9. But here our Answerer domandeth of me saith the Iesuite whether I be able to shew one point wherein they have broken that Harmonie which Irenâ—â—s commendeth in the Catholicke Church of his time I answere that I can very easily show it and make good withall what I said in my demand and 〈◊〉 which he keepeth such a vaine stirre to wit that the â—rotestants agreewith that ancient holy Church in very few points of Religion or rather to say better that they agree not in any one point at all p Reply pag. 76 How well able the Iesuite is or hath beene to make good whaâ— he said in his demaund wil be examined in the XIth Section Here we expect what point of Doctrine hee â—an finde out held by us wherein it will appeare that we vary from that Harmony which Irenaeus commendeth in the Catholicke Church of his time And for his orderly â—andling of this matter he puts downe Irenaeus his words as his Major Proposiâ—ion That Church which is spread throughout the whole World presenteth her faith as â—â— were dwelling in one house and likewise beleiveth as it were having on soule and one heart and uniformely preacheth teacheth and delivereth this faith amongst all nations having as it were one mouth q Reply Ibid. And now as if this repetition were our confusion he telleth us Our Adversaries neither have nor beleive any such Church therefore they keepe no such Harmony The Minor he is willing to prove by a twofold Mediâ—m First by what hath beene heeretofore produced by him concerning our disagreement which I hope the Reader hath observed will not serve his turne Secondly by a farre greater dissention which happeneth saith the Iesuite betwixt them and those Protestants with whom they pretend this Harmony in other Nations r Reply ibid. So that it seemes the Iesuite will first attempt to prove that wee bee not of that Church which keepeth Irenaeus his harmony and that he will reserve unto the last place the point he should prove to wit that we deny the Catholicke Church His best argument to manifest the first is the testimonies of some Lutherans Brownists and Puritans who disâ—â—aime and discard our Answerer and his Church as the Iesuite tells us from all this pretended harmony and agreement with him Å¿ Reply Ibid. And we say if they charge us so deepely as the Iesuite affirmes that this is not sufficient to prove his undertakings seeing that Doctor Stapleton denyes the Fathers and especially S. Hieroâ—e the priviledge of testimony when they write contentiously and with passion Stapleton â—rinc Doctriâ—â—l l. 67. Distinctio de his 〈◊〉 à pâ—â—â—ibus 〈◊〉 â—â—ae coâ—tentio â— scribuntur in verbis Hiero 〈◊〉 locum 〈◊〉 and therefore these rigide Lutherans though they befriend a Iesuite cannot in their disputes be allowed an inâ—allible priviledge Besides these Lutherans which the Iesuite urgeth if their words be as hee layeth them downe for I cannot come by their bookes doe