be asked profitably when they be asked sincerely yet these are the times wherein many men frame querieâ— to pick quarrels and in that respect better some silence then more strife If therefore I had answered none of his queries he had no reason to be querulous yet some I answered briefly because that was sooner done and by that all men may see how willing the wayward questionist is to be informed T.S. Did noâ— Paul and other Saints witness Jesus Christ to come whenas he lived in them Pag. 32 and was in them their hope of glory strength life peace W.T. A. Christ is come already in the flesh to us in the Spirit into us but is not come yet nor till the last day is to come in his power and glory Matt. 24.30 Of the Ministry and calling of Ministers T.S. I Judge those Ministers of Christ Pag. 32 who run not before they are sent of him and do abide in the Doctrine of Christ who have received that gift not by expence of money in a University but freely from the Lord by which they are made able Ministers of the New-Testament not of the Letter but the Spirit who preach him in words and own him by their works W.T. A. Thanks be to God that there are so many publike Teachers in this Nation to which this description may be justly applyed they having received a gift to be able Ministers of the New-Testament freely from the Lord though there were money expended in the University that they might receive it freely â—n God waâ— that is in the obedient serving of free grace and doing their own endeavor in reading meditating studying to shew thâ—mseâ—vâ—s 〈…〉 as Timothy was charged to do who had that gift freely from God 1 Tim. 4.13 14 15 16. 2 Tim. 2.15 But how true his profession is that such men are precious in his eyes let his precious Epistle â—o â—ll the publike Teachers in this Nation shew As for the coâ—trary sort whom he describeth and judgeth not to be Ministers if his meaning were only to shew a dislike of men vitious in the Ministry there be Ministers enough that would join with him in that who yet cannot consent with him in saying such are no Ministers becaus even among men unquestionably call'd as te Priests and Levites were there hath still been a corrupt mixture But that any tell the people as he saith they do p. 33. that a heap of stones is the Churcâ— is I think his tale yet may the place where the Congregation meets which is not an heap of stones but is or should be a decent house be as properly called the Church as that place is called the Court where Tenants do at times meet together to wait upon their Lord when it is said that the Centurion built the Jews a Synagogue a Here this Writer comes and complains That the Elders of the Jews call an heap of Stones a Congregation for that the word Synagogue * signifies But he that complains without reason must go home again without relief T.S. Where is it written that one was made a Minister by ordinary call mother by extraordinary W.T. A. The thing is written Gal. 1.1 Act. 14.23 T.S. Is there so much as mention made iâ— either of those Scriptures of a Call ordinary or extraordinary and have you yet the confidence positively to assert that it is so written in these Scriptures Must your dreams and drâ—wsie meanings passe for Scripture W.T. A. Its wonder that this quick-sighted youth that speaks so much here and otherwhere of dreaming and drowsinesse should be so dull and obtuse himself as not to see that I said The thing is written and not the words are written Why doth he not awake himself and prove that those two Scriptures do not in their true sense and meaning lay before us a Calling of two sorts one from Christ immediately and so Paul was called himself which we call extraordinary because it was but of certain persons and but for a certain time and accompanied with extraordinary miraculous gifts this the first Scripture shews Gal. 1.1 The other from Christ mediately by the Ministry of men and so Elders were ordained by Paul and Barnabas as the other Scripture shews â—ct 14.23 this we call ordinary as being common to all Ministers and to continue in all ages of the Church Nor doth this make two doors into the Sheepfold as this caviller would collect but two ways of entring in by the same door T. S You say This distinction hath ever â—een us'd in the Churches of God Pag. 34 wâ—en it was never us'd among any of the Churches mentioned in the Scripturâ—â— W.T. A. I said so in an usual way of speaking yet not meaning to extend it to all that time wherein God hath had a Church which hath been from the beginning of the world but to declare only that it hath been of long and continual use in the Churches of God and so the word ver is ordinarily used viz. to signifie a long and yet limited term of time as 1 Sam. 27.12 Exod. 12.24 21.6 Besides that in the Scripture-Churches there was as hath been shewed this distinction in the ground and thing it self though not in the form of words W.T. Our gifts abilities and fitnesse for the Ministry which are Gods inward call were first tryed Pag. 35 and testimonials of our carriage were given T.S. Doth the Scripture anywhere say That gifts abilities and fitness for the Ministry are Gods inward call or that any of the Saints sought Testimonials in order to their being made Ministers or did Pauâ— Peter keep any Chaplains to try men W.T. A. 1. Is it anywhere said in Scripture that faith love and holy desires are inward Graces Is there not enough therefore in Scripture to gather that they are so when as we find there that such vertues are placed in the iâ—ner and hidden man of the heart that in opposition to outward and bodily things Ro. 7.22 10.10 1 Peâ—. 3.3 4.2 Coâ— 4.16 So it is in this case Paul describes the qualities of those that are to be made Ministers which are inward and whereunto are opposed other qualifications which are outward These qualities namely abilities for and strong desires to the Work of the Ministry are a Call because God plants them in the heart as pointing to putting them into a capacity for and as it were leading unto that Calling and they are an inward Call because they are seated in the inner man 2. Whatever Paul and Peter did in their own persons we are sure that Paul requires of Tâ—mothy to see that the Deacons be proved and for the same reason the Bishops and Presbyters also before they could use that Office 1 Tâ—m 3.10 why are the things required in Ministers so fully and distinctly prescribed Why is such a precise commandment given to lay hands suddâ—nly upon no man but that diligent search was to be made into those that were
fiery work to burn up in them and take off their hearts from hanging after old dispensations wayes and discoveries So that in this way they look to be purged from that which they have received formerly from the Truth and Ordinances of God 2. It is conceived from their own words to be for their justification for they say They must be brought to suffer as Christ did and to undergo as great a sense of wrath as Christ did when he cryed My God my God why hast thou forsaken me Thus reckoning saith the Relator of these things as far as I am able to determine that upon this account they must be justified before the Lord Worlds wonder pag. 23. Now let all men judge what agreement there is between this and Scripture-quaking 4. I wonder that among all the quaking which they would have us suppose ariseth from the fear of God they did never tremble in conformity to that Scripture wherein God himself saith VVherefore were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses but in stead of that are still inveighing against men of Moses his minde and Office Numb. 12.8 VVhether Scripture be the Saints Rule T.S. NO Scripture saith so in terminis W. T. 1. That is Scripture which is necessarily deduced from it though it be not in so many words expressed in it Our Saviour to shew that the Scriptures hold forth the Doctrine of the resurrection to all knowing men produceth this Scripture I am the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob Mark 22.29 32. Now shall a Quaker come to our Saviour and say Your proof is nothing because the Scripture you bring saith not in terminis There shall be a resurrection 2. That in Deut. 5.31 32 33. is all one to a rational man as if it had been said in plain terms You shall walk perfectly according to the Rule and direction of my word 3. Add hereunto that Gal. 6.16 the word Rule is expressed to shew the Doctrine laid down there is the Rule they must walk by that look for peace and mercy Hence Scriptures are called Canonical because they are a Canon and Rule to walk by T.S. Let me ask you and many others who have been Teachers were those things that you have taught so many yeers together necessarily deduced from Scriptures if not then by your own confession you have taught falshood if they were then all that you have so taught is infallible for you say it is Scripture and the Scripture is infallible W.T. A. Here is an horned Argument wherewith he pusheth hard but wants strength One horn is this If the things you have taught were not necessarily deduced from Scripture then by your own confession you have taught falshood To which I answer That what he saith had something in it if it were not a falshood that I made any such confession I was not so lost as to confesse that to be a falshood which neither my self nor any man well in his wits ever thought to be so Was all that Moses learned from the Egyptians or Daniel from the Chaldeans a meer falshood A Minister may have occasion to deliver divers things for peoples help not necessarily deduced from Scripture and yet very true as Paul said of what a Poet said Tit. 3.12 13. This witness is true yet what we have taught people to believe and practise as the mind of God that we have prov'd to them out of the word of God But now the other horn seems stronger T. S. If they were necessarily deduced from Scripture then all that you have so taught is infallible Pag. 6 W.T. A. So it is but not because we taught it but because it lies in and was necessarily deduced from that Scripture which is infallible T.S. Why then do you not adjoin all your Sermons to the Scripture for if necessarily deduced thence they are Scripture and a part of the Saints Rule but what a sad condition would many poor souls be in whose small Estates would not amount to the purchase of a Bible so voluminous would it be c. VV.T. A. When it is said why do you not then adjoine all your Sermons to Scripture that sure is something simply spoken for what need that be adjoined and added to Scripture that is already in it as all is that is necessarily deduced from it for how could it be gathered from it and that necessarily if it were not in it who can take any thing from thence where it is not to be had The poor souls therefore of whom he speaks need not trouble themselves about the purchasing of a bigger Bible any more then of another well in the place of that living Fountaine from whence water hath been drawn which when it was drawn was that well-water this hundred or thousand yeers T.S. Whereas you quote Christ his proving the resurrection of the dead c. I answer That what Christ spake was infallible he neither did nor could erre in what he said W.T. A. It 's true that what Christ spake was infallible but this he saith to no purpose for Christ doth not speak there as one that would presse them to receive what he delivers upon his bare word but as one that would convince them of the truth of what he spake by Scripture that is by his necessary and unanswerable reasonings from it He doth not say Ye do erre not knowing me to be an infallible Teacher whom you ought to believe upon his word but not knowing the Scriptures and the Power of God both which plainly prove that there shall be and may be a resurrection T.S. Were you as infallible in those meanings and interpretations which you force upon the Scriptures as he was in what he spake from the Spirit of the Lord I should readily close with them as the Oracles of God W.T. A 1. If all Pastors and Teachers were Apostles then these men would presently be Converts This is like them that said to our Savior Let him now come down from the Cross and we will believe him but they who contemn that means which God in his wisdom ordains and will do nothing without that means which they in their folly demand justly perish 2. Neither is this device of any value for the question is not whether we be infallible in our meanings and deductions but whether that which is deduced and drawn from Scripture that is necessarily and upon supposal that we are not deceived in the deducing be Scripture or a thing truly contained in Scripture which I affirm it is Let him not talk to no purpose but keep him to his work and prove the contrary T.S. Either say to the people plainly that you are infallible or else say that you are fallibles that so they may take liberty of proving both your actions and Doctrine W.T. A. We willingly acknowledge we are fallible or men that may be deceived therefore do not onely give liberty but give counsel to people and exhort them
ought to rendeâ— all their dues Ergo Which argument amounteth to as much as this children ought to be baptized because they ought to be baptized W.T. Suppose those words Render to all their dues be taken only for an Exhortation yet because it is such an Exhortation as is also a Precept and that general it serves sufficiently to infer Infant-Baptism because even Infants are comprehended under those all that must have their due It appears to those that have well viewed this context that the Apostle in the 7. ver. of Rom. 13. falleth upon this new ground and Argument for subjection to Magistrates to wit The pâ—ying of all their dues v. 7. The owing of nothing to any maâ— v 8. This reason he coucheth under the form of an Exhortation yet so as that it hath an argumentative force in it such as we finde more expresly in other parallel Scriptures as Matth. 22.21 Eph. 6.1 Col. 4.1 And the Argument is this If we must render to all their dues then subâ—ection honor tribute must be given to Magistrateâ— but we must render to all their dues Ergo This man doth not like the Apostles-Logick but sayes in effect all this amounts to as much as this Magistrates ought to have â—ribute paid because they ought to have Tribute paid when any man of ordinary understanding cannot but see that this is not a proving of the same by the same but an argument drawn from that which is more general to that which is more particular d and which lieth directly under that general and namely from the general rule of Justice to acts of Justice in particular cases as if one should argue thus It s your duty to do right to every man therefore to do it to me So here the argument is not Children ought to be baptized because they ought but because it is their due and every one ought to have his due So it 's bottom'd on and proved by a fundamental Law of Nature as well as a Precept of Scripture VV.T. The Infant of a believing Parent is a holy child T.S. Paul saith That he with others were by naâ—ure câ—â—â—dren of wrath Pag. 26 but he that is holy is no childe of wrath W T. A. An Infant may be a childe of Wrath naturally and yet be holy faederally as the Infants of believers are who by reason of Gods covenant made with the Parents are not to be reckoned among heathens but among Gods holy people It s true that he that is inherently holy that is that hath the grace and fear of God planted in his heart is not now a child of wrath but we do not say that the Infants of believers are holy in that sense that is by regeneration but only by Covenanâ—-Relaâ—ion T. S. If the holiness mentioned 1 Cor. 7.14 be the foundation of Infant-baptism then may an unbeliever be baptized also for the same holiness that the child had the unbâ—lieving Parent had for the same Greâ—k word that is used for sanctifying the unbelieving parent is used for the holiness of the child And will you say the unbelieving parent had a right to Baptism c. W. T. A. Here 's some colour of an argument but the colour will quickly fade if it be found that the same Greek word hath in several places several significations and applications And so it is ordinarily As in the word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} that is commonly translated a Church sometimes that Greek word signifieth a civil or an uncivil assembly as Act. 19.32 but otherwhere and often a sacred and Church-assembly 1 Cor. 11.18 22. so another Greek word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} and {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} sometimes signifies that which is redundant and supeâ—fluous 2 Cor. 9 1. sometimes that which is laudably abundant and eminent Mat. 5.47 Rom 3.1 Nor is the Greek word here used alwayes taken in the same sense for sometimes it signifieth onely an outward separation and coming from the world to the Church Heb. 10 29 sometimes an inward renovation and a passing from nature to grace 1 Cor. 6 11. 2 Thes. 2.13 yea in the same verse John 17.19 it s taken in divers senses Christ sanctifying himself for us otherwise then he sanctifie thus he sanctifieth himself by the filling of his humane nature with perfect holiness for our use and the consecrating of himself to suffer for us in that nature He sanctifieth us by regenerating us and that more and more to newness of life by the truth of the Gospel 2. I answer further that the Greek word here applied to the parent and the child is not altogether the same that is it is not the same for the part of speech though it be the same as to the Tâ—eme or root It is said the children are holy {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} but it is not said the unbelieving parent is holy that is holy personally as the children are where one Parent is a Believer but onely that he is sanctified {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} that is is holy relatively in relation for so it is as I conceive rightly interpreted unto marriage-communion about which the question there was raised and as concerning which the Apostle wholly there by way of resolution declareth that there is a lawful use of matrimony though one party be an Heathen and one only a Believer which also extendeth so far as that the children of such a couple shall not be accounted unholy because one Parent is an Heathen but hoâ—y that is persons that are Church-children and to whom the Covenant of God belongs because one Parent is a Believer T. S. Pag. 17 Many that are drunkards swearers whore-masters and professed enemies of the Lord have received the mark of Baptism and call you these Gods people Doth this distingu-them from a profane Indian W. T. A. 1. The notorious baptized persons whereof he speaks have very much to answer for yet if God say Mâ— people a to them that had the treasures of wickedness in the house of the wicked and the scant measure which is abominable yea that walked after the idolatrous counsels and statutes of Omri and Ahab why may we not give even such wretched men that title were not they of the Church of Corinth Gods people and reckoned among called Saints b against whom the Apostle draws up so sad a charge 2 Cor. 12.20 21. yea was not the incestuous person who exceeded the Heathen in wickedness one of them till he was excommunicated If not what had they to do to excommunicate him since the Church hath nothing to do to â—udge them that are without 1 Cor. 5.12 And is it not plain in the same chapter that a man that is called a Brother may be a fornicator covetous idolater railer extortioneâ— drunkard c. 1 Cor. 5.11 I do not mean that such are to be countenanced in the Church or
Jews that they thought they had eternal life in the Scriptures did he therefore direct to look for life in them Christ telleth his Disciples that the time should come that whosoever killed them should think he did God service and will you thence gather this doctrine which is as true as the former that Christ in that Scripture directeth men to kill his Disciples W. T. A. Is there the same reason between these two were not their thoughts right in the one but altogether unrighteous in the other Doth not Christ approve the one and condemn the other Are not the thoughts which Christ approves right because the same men have other thoughts which Christ condemns They thought rightly that eternal life is laid up in Scripture a for it is said Hear and your soul shall live Isaiah 55.3 and of that song and of those words of the Law which Moses wrote Deuteronomie 31.22 24 it is said it is your life â—euteronomy 32.46.47 Therefore from their own right concession Christ presseth them to search the Scripture and shews further how that eternal life which they truly thought was to be had there was to be had and enjoyed of them to wit by their testify nâ— of him Unto this my Letter spake further which he lightly passes over for a mans easiest way is to slight that wherein he cannot satisfie T.S. Cant at eternal life which alone is to be had in Christ Pag. 25 bâ— yet had in Scripâ—ure and in that which is not Christ where had you this rare piece of Logick That that which is to be had in one thing is yet to be had in anotheâ— W.T. A. Here are great words but he must know and men of understanding do know that it is not against Logick nor any right reason to say that what is alone to be had in one thing in one sense may yet be had in another to wit in another sense and in another war as Deut. 30.20 it is said of God He is thy life and we may truly add He only b And yet it is said Deuâ— 32.47 It is thy life that is the Word of God So Prov. 3.18 and 4.22 in like manner The Son makes freâ— Joâ—. 8.36 that is he only for who else is the Redeemer and yet that Redeemer saith The Truth shall make you free So God is a Saviour and there is none beside him Isa. 45.21 and yet men are ordinarily called Saviours Judg. 3.9 1 Sam. 14.45 Obad. v 21. Thus the life of a condemned Malefactor lies only in the mercy of the supreme Magistrate and yet it lies also in the pardon sealed as the Instrument reaching forth the Magistrates mercy for the Malefactors safety T.S. The Scriptures testifie of Christ but is life therefore to be had in them Pag. 25 Is the dâ—câ—aration touching any thing the thing it self W.T. A. Whether it be the thing it self or no it s the means of obtaining it as the declaration of plenty in Egypt shewed life was to be had there directed a famished creatures to repair thither for it So the Scripture declaring the way of life with a purpose also in God in that way to bring men to it it is said truly to help us to life the rather because the Scripture not only declares the person in whom life is to be had but shews also what manner of persons we should be yea and puts us also through the Grace of God into a capacity that we may receive it from him John 20.31 yea such a neerness there is between the word of life and life it self that he who is our life saith I knâ—w that his commandement that is that doctrine of the Father which himself was to deliver is everlasting life John 12.50 W. T. I would ask you this one question whereupon must I believe that Christ is the true light that lightens every man that comes into the world T. S. I ask you again whether that all the holy men of God from Abe to 〈◊〉 Pag. 26 who spake those words did believe that Christ was the true light if they did then I demand on what ground did they believe it and on what ground did John himself who spake the words believe the truth of them W. T. A. Here are shuffling things instead of answering one question of mine he puts me to answer two or three of his I shall not slide out of his questions as he doth out of mine but answer him that the holy men of God to whom that truth was revealed extraordinarily as to John and the pen-men of Scripture such truths were believed them because of that extraordinary Revelation they to whom any such was revealed before the word of God was written believed it because of the certainty of those wayes of Revelation which God was pleased to use then but since the Church of God hath had the Scriptures holy men have believed the truth of God and this in particular after it pleased God to record it because of Scripture-revelation But after this answering of his questions I must call him again to mine and ask him once more wâ—eâ—eupon he believes that Christ is the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the world If he saies he believes it be extraordinary revelation let him shevv prove such a revelation which is now as needless as to do that in an extraordinary way which is already done in an ordinary way if he say he believes it because the Scripture Joh. 1.9 saith so then I say still he must believe and build on that Scripture first and so grant the Scripture to be the ground of faith otherwise the house and edifice of Quakers will fall for want of a foundation And so it will howsoever because howsoever that be an excellent and established truth yet they build â—wood hey and stubble upon it After he hath spoken his pleasure of what he calls my droâ—sie interpretations which whatsoever they be were occasioned by his jugling expressions he comes further to lay open himself thus T. S. I own no Religâ—on but thâ—t which teacheth a man to fear the Lord and work righteousness Pag. 20 to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction and to keep hiâ—self unspotted of the world Christ is the light of the world which I own as the foundaâ—ion of my Religion who is within me unless I be a Reprobate W. T. A. Here 's the account of his Religion may not a man make as fair a profession as this is and yet come short of salvation But I shall explicate my self 1. I grant that they who truly fear God are the persons that shall be saved but no man fears God truly that doth not so reverence the Lord Jesus and his righteousness as therein alone to look for his salvation Phil. 3.9 2. I say that the fear of God and the working of righteousness are evidences to a man of his good estate and Gods way wherein to come to salvation
but they do procure our happiness neither will any wise man rest upon them for the obtaining of salvation Gal. 5.2 Isa. 64.6 3. It's wonder he should own such a Religion as saith nothing of faith when that is a chief lesson that the Gospel teacheth for a sinners salvation Mark 16.16 1 Tim. 1.16 This is an old Popish trick to make much of the doctrine of St. James in a mistaken interpretation and to lay aside the doctrine of St. Paul in its true sense Rom. 3.28 when they should join both together and ascribe to â—aith the justification of men as sinners and to works their justification as believers Jam. 2.22 4. Whereas he saith Christ is the â—ight of the world which I own as the fouâ—dation of my Religion who is within me The question is whether he build his Religion and salvation on that Christ who is within or on Christ as he is within that is on that of Christ which is within I grant that Christ is in us except we be Reprobates but its true also that Christ doth not save us as within us nor by any thing he hath put within us as if that were the cause of our salvation or Christ by that for how can that save us which is imperfect which needs a Saviour It is therefore Christ without us that saves us that by what he wrought without us that is by dying for our sins and rising again for our justification nor doth grace reign to eternal life any other way then through Christs righteousness made ours by faith Rom. 5.21 which clearly appears in converted Paul within whom Christ was abundantly he feared God and wrought righteousness and yet he desires to be found not having his own righteousness which is of the Law but that which is through the fâ—iâ—h of Christ the righteousness which is of God by faith Phil. 3.9 T. S. That you may know my Religion will bear the trial I do hereby declare my self free and willing Pag. 28 upon seasonable notice to appear in the midst of your Congregation or in the presence of the whole County to have my principles tried by the Scriptures of truth VV. T. A. 1. It seems he thinks now the Scripture is the touchstone or Rule to try things by whether they be of God or no 2. He hath been in my Congregation once already which considering his sad Apostacy since I am sorry for and shall not have to do with him there again nor by way of dispute anywhere else I have not been used to tumultuous things nor is it like his conference will be better then his writing and then let others judge whether it be fit a Congregation especially a whole County should be called together to hear it I began with him in writing and shall walk with him no other way nor long in that but shall leave him as a man whom no conference or writing is like to do good upon unless the Lord be pleased to change his heart which I should be most glad to see T. S. Can â—ny man be said to own the Spirit that breathed fâ—rth the Scripture and living the life of Christ and yet disown the Scripture which is the testimony of that Spirit and that Christ a W. T. A. I grant that they that truly own the spirit breathed forth the Scripture and live the life of Christ will also own the Scripture yet are these two distinct things though they meet together and agree in the same person But I answer further that a man may own the Sgirit in profession that breathed forth the Scripture and yet not own the Scripture as we see in Zâ—dekia that owned and arrogated the Spirit of the Lord and yet disowned and detested what Michaias spake by that Spirit 1 King 22.24 28. 2 Thes. 2.2 so quakers talk much of the Spirit and yet instead of owning the Scripture their design is found to be to depend upon an unwritten word immediatly dictated to them within themselves proceeding from him who is as they say the word from the beginning and is the life and is manifested as they give out within them as to the Apostles â—am. Eatonâ— answer to the quakers 19. queries pag. 20. Yea they do little less then deride the Text of Scripture calling Ministers in contempt preachers of the letter when as they preach those spiritual truths that be contained in it yea one of them makes this out-crie All people cease from their outside lights and return to the light of Christ in you and this light is not a chapter without you in a book c. Perfect Pharisee p. 20. out of James Nayler in a book called The glory of the Lord shining out of the north Of the word Sacrament T S. Pag. 30 SAcrament principally signifieth the Oath by which Souldiers of old bound themselves to be faithful to their Captains and is there such affinity between this word and the word sign seal Antitype and example W. T. A. Its true that the word Sacrament among profane Authors signifies a military oath which because it was accounted of all things the most sacred yea and went under the name also of a most holy mystery a hence use was made of the same word in the Churches of God to set forth the holy things instituted therein of God wherein there was a secret and mysterious signification and in special the two New Testament Seals of the Covenant of grace I deny not therefore that notion and acception of the word Sacrament which he and many others mention it being very fit to set forth these Seals as they represent the covenant of grace in which regard as on the 〈◊〉 side they assure us of the benefit of the Covenant on Gods part so on the other side we are therein consecrated unto God and bound as Souldiers were that took that military Oath to perform the Covenant on our part But this being granted it no way crosseth the ordinary description of a Sacrament which is that it is an outward and visible signe of a spiriâ—ual and invisibâ—e Grace Now to set two things one against another which being rightly taken do very well stand together is a poor quarrel And so is the whole contestation about the word Sacrament it being not made any matter or necessary appurtenance of our faith but used only as a convenient and received expression of that thing which is found in Scripture Whereas he questioneth further what affinity there is between the words sigâ—e and seaâ— and the word Sacrament as it relates to the aforesaid Military Oath I answer the words signe and seal expresse what we have from God to wit the benefits of the Covenant of Grace represented and sealed in that Ordinance The word Sacramen in that sense wherein he takes it shews what God is to have from us As for his cavilling about my forbearing to answer his quâ—râ—es I shall only say this Pag. 32 That though questions may
is to serve God without intanglement of conscience by those things that were apparently and in true judgement Snares and oppressive burthens to the consciences of those that were neither children nor seducers But its one thing to desire a liberty to serve God without unnecessary and apparent intanglements another thing for men to seek a liberty to chuse whether they will serve God according to his Word or no It s one thing to desire freedome from a book of sports another thing to desire freedome from the Book of God as not willing to be led and ruled by it but by a light within or as desiring a liberty from that which that word commands or to that which it forbids T. S. But why is not liberty good for the children Is any thing too good for the Children of the Lord Whether do you and the rest of the Teachers of the Nation judge your selves to be of the number of children If you are then neither is liberty good for you W.T. A. Its wonder this man should please himself with so childish a thing that is with a poor playing upon the word Children I cannot think that he understands so little but that it is against his conscience to conceive that I undeâ—stood the word Children in that sense wherein he 〈◊〉 it For the help of those whom such a toy may a little trouble I shall let every weak Reader know that by Children I meant such Christians as although they be the Children of God yet being weak in knowledge and in grace as all Gods Children are not are apt to abuse and take hurt by a larger liberty as children do because they be children for when they be grown up they have more wit and so will do otherwise Now the Teachers of this Nation and riper Christians are in the number of Gods Children as châ—lâ—ren come to maturity are the Parents children still but they are not such children as children in in their minority â—re unto whom because they have not understanding well to use more liberty they grant lesse yet divers such children there be unto whom if you say you may observe the Lords day religiously heare on that day sound Teachers and no other fast and pray on solemn dayes â—o preserve the Land from perâ—shing These things you may do if you wâ—ll and if you will not you may choose I say if you speak thus to divers â—n these dayes it s all one as if the father and mother should say to the little childe that 's at play among his play-fellowes you may go to school if you will or you may come in to read a Chapter and be catechis'd if you will but if you will not you may chuse It s easie to know what hee 'l chuse And parents that give that liberty to a childe that would do better as we say if he should are to answer for it if he make an undoing choice As foâ— that liberty of Paul which he mention Try al things and hold fast that which is good we are far from denying it Christians so the tryal be made by the right Rule that is the Word of God anâ— not the warping rule of an inward light and that be held fast which is found to be good and right in the judgement of the Spirit of God in the Word and not that which is good in their own eyes And we blame Christians exceedingly that they have run from one thing to another without this Tryall W.T. If prejudice have not blinded your eyes you may see that there are a very considerable company of Ministers that through the grace of God are such as Paul speaking to Timothy 1 Tim. 3. requireth they should be I mean as farre as humane infirmity will bear A Defence of the Ministry T. S. I answer that hath no weight at all for admit that for a plea and the filthiest Idol Shepheard in the Nation may be judged so qualified as Paul required He that is full of spots will say he is harmless as humane infirmity will bear c. W.T. Here 's good stuff Because a common drunkard cannot say unless falsly and wickedly may not therefore a David or an Asaph say truely This â—s mine infirmity Psa. 77.10 Doth he not know that there are some spots that are not the spots of children Deut 32 5. and therefore some that are when I had said blameless as humane infirmity will bear I added in my letter these words unto which if you give no allowance unto others you know not your self but he is willing to leave out that and shakes off I doubt that self-searâ—h which being rightly ordered would help him to see the need that sincere and weak Christians who cannot be Quakers and plead perfection have of that supporting truth that there is no childe of God here upon earth but hath his * infirmities Nor is this any protection to prophane men who do in vain shroud their gross miscarriages under the name of humane frailties when as by their constant and wilfull wickedness they declare themselves to all the world to be presumptuous sinners W.T. It hath ever been the devils grand design wherein he hath palpably plaied his part in our late changes to throw down the Ministry It s not enough for him that Bishops be taken away branch and root unless he root out the Ministry also for he knows well that his work cannot go forward while their work continues T. S. I never heard before that the Devil took away the Bishops W.T. A. As he did not hear it before now So neither doth he hear it now It is not to be expected that this man should hâ—ve much Logick yet one would think he should not have so little reason as to collect that because I said Iâ— is not enough for the Devill that Bishops be taken away therefore I said that the Devill took them away If a man should say it s not enough for the Devill that Altars Crosses and Crucifixes be taken away unlesse Bibles be taken away also doth this prove that the Devill took away Crosses and Crucifixes Or If a man should say it was not enough for the cruell Romish Catholicks that Fagius and Bucer were not alive to trouble them unlesse they dig up their dead bodies and burn them opeâ—ly doth it follow therefore that he saith the same Romanists took away their lives 2. I desire the Reader to know that I thought not of any such thing as this Replyers figment is when I wrâ—te that passage my meaning therein being onely this that it is not enough for the Devils purpose or that the Devil is not satisfied unlesse under the notion of Reforming the Ministerâ— he can proceed so far as to destroy it 3. I adâ—e Had Bishops been taken away according to this Replyers desires and Declaration I mean had the removall of Bishops been acted as an introductory and in way of tenâ—ency to the removall of the whole
otherwise be saved then it is apparent that the light that enlightens every one that comes into the world could not suffice to save those Gentiles who in former times never heard of that Gospel which sounded in all the Earth in and after the Apostles times Douâ—tleâ—s that Sound went not into all the Earth before the Apostles times Psal. 147. last v. And yet the Gentiles who then lived had that inward light which Qâ—akers plead for because they were men come into the world therefore that light will not suffice to save which is the thing for which I quoted that Scripture and it is in vain for this Writer to speak of an answer from verse 18. for that shewes only what was done in Gospel times we are sure the Gentiles heard not of Christ before at least in any observable generality and yet they had the inward light therefore that light is not sufficient to save for why then could it not save without any further hearing T. S To which I shall adde these following Queries 1. Q Whether had not the Lord his witnesse in the hearts of those of whom Paul speaketh in his first Chapter to the Romans convincing them of and condemning them for sin thought it was kept under and held in unrighteousnesse W.T. A. Yes they had that in them which was sufficient to make up a convincing and condemning witnesse against them T. S. 2. Q Whether that which left them without excuse did not also reveal unto them the way of life which if it had not done whether had they not been excusable W.T. A. Though that light did not reveal unto them the way of life as I affirm the light that all the Gentiles had did not there being no way to life but by his Name whom the Apostle saith was not named among those Gentiles to whom he preached Rom. 15.20 yet wâ—re they not therefore excusable but by so much light as they had from the works of God though they had none from the word of God were left without excuse Rom. 1.20 T.S. 3. Q Whether were they condemned because they knew not God or for disobedience against the light they had in that they glorified him not as God according to the measure of light they had received W.T. A. For both to wit because they liked not to retain God in their knowledge Rom. 1.28 and therefore they had not the knowledge they might have had because they glorified not God according to the knowledge they had v. 21. T.S. 4. Q. If they had obeyed and glorified God according to that measure of light and knowledge they had received whether had they been condemned W.T. A. That 's an impossible supposition for the darknesse that was in them would not suffer them to glorifie God according to the light that was in them John 1.5 which dâ—rknesse also they willingly preâ—erring above the light they exposed themselves thereby to just condemnation without excuse which is enough for us to know and acknowledge in this point without puzling our selves with needlesse suppositions T.S. The thing that I charged you with was the denial of Jesus Christ to be within us which charge I grounded on these words of yours viz the Scripture â—aith that we are justified freely by the grace of God through the redemption and righteousness of Jesus Christ which is not within us but without us Now the thing in controversie between you and my self is in which of these two orders these words must be read either thus which redemption and righteousnesse is noâ— within us or which Jesus Christ is not with in us you would have them to save your self out of the myre to be read in the former sense W. T. A. 1. That if I had meant what I spake of Christ I should in congruitie of speech rather have said who is within us then which is within us the latter being a more proper expression of a thing the former of a person 2. If he had meant to take my words plainly and honestly as they lay before him with consideration of the businesse between us he would have found no cause at all of his Unconcocted conceit for he knows the question between us was not about Christ within but about Righteousnesse within and namely whether that righteousnesse within doth lead to justification Whereupon I proved to him out of Scripture that the riâ—hteousnesse wâ—thin is not that which doth justifie us but that we are freely justified and saved through the redemption and righteousnesse that is through that redemption and righteousnesse which is not within us but without us Now to dream of a thing that was never in controversie and to forget the matter that is in present dispute shewes that a man is willing where he cannot finde a fault to make it T.S. Which being supposed I demand of you two things 1. What number is the word which the singular or the plural The singular you cannot say unlesse you will destroy your Grammer which saith that many Antecedents singular having a conjunction copulative comming between them will have a Relative plural This being granted that the word which is the plural number I demand 2. What 's the Nominative case to the verb is for which you can finde no other but the word which and that being the plural number and the verb is the singular number pray produce me some rule in your Grammer that alloweth any concord betwixt a verb of the singular number and a nominative case of the plural W.T. A. Now here 's a piteous accusation that I that have lived in the world 64 years have forgot and have need to be catechised in the Childrens Accidence but this Grammer Scholler carries it so high that something must be said to so frivilous a thing In his Childrens Catechisme theâ—e be two questions I shall need to speak onely to the first of them whereupon the other will fall I answer therefore and can say well enough that the word which is the singulâ—r number not the plural and yet the Grammer will scape well enough onely he that fears the destruction of Grammer may comfort himself with this that there be more Grammers then one and should remember also that the Composers of our ordinary Grammer acknowledge that they framed it Crassâ Minervâ for Childrens use It is no marvel therefore if they wrote those things that were plainest and most common and doe for other things not so fit to be communicated to young beginners refer them to other Gramarians as Linacer Despaucerius and to their own aâ—ter experience in the reading of those Authours out of whom Grammers are composed This being premised I shall come to a more close and particular answer Where 1. It were enough to say that the Relative which refers to the latter Antecedent that is to the word râ—ghteousness which righteousness though I added the word Redemption exabundanti was that which I intended principally to speak of