objections out of scripture And therfor they cannot with certainty believe the sayd principle Your self say Pag 61. N. 23. If our Saviour had intended that all Controversyes in Religion should be by some visible judg finally determined who can doubt but in playne termes he would have expressed himself about this matter And may not we turne the same argument against you and say If our Saviour had intended that all poynts of Faith and religion should be evident in scripture without relation to any visible judg church or vnwrtiten Tradition who can doubt but in plaine termes he would have expressed himself in this matter And my retortion is stronger than your Argument can be because true Catholique Doctrine belieues not only scripture or the written word of God but tradition also or the word of God not written which all grant to haue bene before scripture and from which you confess we receiue scripture it self And so although nothing were sayd in scripture of a visibse judg to determine controversyes in Religion yet vniuersall tradition sense of all Christians and practise of Gods church in determining and defining matters of Faith were sufficient to assure vs therof But Protestants must either alledg evident scripture or nothing at all This I say not as if we wanted evident scripture for the necessity of a visible judg of controversyes but only to shew that we haue not that necessity of alledging scripture for this and every other particular poynt which Protestants haue 25. Secondly I proue our assertion thus we are to suppose that Allmighty God having ordayned Man to a supernaturall End cannot faile to provide on his part meanes sufficient for attaining therof Since then Faith is necessary for ariving to that End if it cannot be learned except by scripture alone no doubt but he would have obliged the Apostles to write as he obliged them to preach and Christians to heare the Gospell For if he left it to their freedom it is cleare that he did not esteeme writing to be necessary which yet must be most necessary if we can attaine Faith and salvation only by scripture But Protestants even for this cause that they are to belieue nothing which is not expressed in scripture cannot affirme that our Saviour gaue any such command to his Apostles seing it is evident no such thing is expressed in scripture Therfor they cannot avouch any such command But for preaching we read Marc 16. V. 15. Going into the whole world preach yee the Gospell to all creatures And in obedience to this command it is recorded V. 20. But they going forth preached every where And our Saviour living on earth sent his Apostles abroad with this injunction Matth 10.7 Euntes praedicate Goe preach The Apostle saith Rom 10.17 Faith is by hearing And V. 18. have they not heard And certes into all the earth hath the sound of them gone forth and vnto the ends of the whole earth the words of them where we heare of hearing and speaking but not of writing or reading of a sound conveyed to the eares of the whole world not of any booke or writing set before their eyes Thus we see that only two of the Apostles haue also made themselves Evangelists by writing the Gospell though all were Evangelists by preaching it Chill and his fellowes thinke they can demonstrate out of S. Luke more clearly than out of any other Evangelist that his Gospell contaynes all poynts necessary to salvation and yet He is so farr from producing any command he had to write which had bene the most cleare effectuall and necessary cause that could haue bene alledged that contrarily he shewes that it was done by free election saying Luc 1.1 3. because many haue gone about c. It seemed good also to me to write c. Neither doth any one of all the Canonicall writers alledg a command for writing S. Paule saith 1. Cor 9.16 If I evangelize it is no glory to me for necessity lyeth vpon me for woe is to me if I evangelize not But he sayes not woe to me if I write not and accordingly we see some of the canonicall writers differred writing a long tyme after our B. Sauiours Ascension and did not write but on severall incident occasions as Bellarmine de verbo Dei L. 4. C. 4. demonstrates out of Eusebius If then it was not judged necessary that scripture should be written but that the Church had other meanes to beget and conserue true Faith and religion as S. Paule 1. Cor 15.1 expressly saith I doe you to vnderstand the Gospell which I preached vnto you which also you received in the which also you stand And V. 11. So we preach and so you haue believed What can be more vnreasonable than to belieue it to be necessary that all things necessary be evidently contayned in scripture alone without dependance on tradition or the church Or who can believe that the Saints Paule Iames Iude Iohn in their Epistles written vpon severall occasions or to private persons intended to write a Catechisme or specify all necessary points of Faith Hence it is that Eusebius Histor Eccles L. 3. C. 24. affirmes that S. Iohn was sayd to haue preached the Gospell even almost to the end of his life without notice of any scripture and in generall that the Apostles were not sollicitous to write much And the same is observed by S. Chrysostome Hom 1. in Act. Apost If then Protestants cannot proue by evident scripture that all Canonicall writers receyved a command to write how will they proue that they were bound to publish their writings wherof as I sayd some were directed to private persons or that others were or are bound to publish them or to reade them being published And if they can shew no command for these things how can they maintayne that there is no meanes to know matters of Faith except by scripture 26. Thirdly you teach That all necessary poynts are evident in scripture though there be many points evident which are not necessary that we cannot precisely determine what points in particular be necessary that such a determination or distinction is needless For all necessary points being evident in scripture whosoever believes all evident points is sure to know all necessary points and more This is your chiefest ground in this matter But it is evidently refuted by willing you to reflect that by this meanes all must be obliged to know all the cleare or evident texts of scripture otherwise he cannot be sure that he knowes all necessary points since you giue him the assurance of knowing all necessary points only by this meanes of knowing all points that are evident Therfore if he be not sure that he knowes all evident points he cannot be sure that he knowes all such as are necessary Yea every one will be obliged to know every text or period of scripture and to examine whether it be evident or obscure least that if vpon examination it appeare to be
from Heretiques because we affirme that all necessary doctrine concerning either Faith or Manners is not contayned expressly in scripture and that beside the written word of God there is required the vnwritten word that is Divine and Apostolicall Traditions c ād C. 4. the very title wherof is this The necessity of Traditions is proved in the beginning he sayth First we will endeavour to shew that scripture without Traditions was neither simply necessary nor sufficient Secondly that there are extant Apostolicall Traditions not only concerning manners but also Faith Is it not very strāge you should alledg Bellarmine for the sufficiēcy of scripture alone who in a whole booke containing twelue Chapters professes to teach and proue the necessity of Tradition or Gods vnwritten word and in most cleare words which even now we alledged declares how scripture is cleare and sufficient namely togeather with Tradition and Interpretation of Gods church But by this is confirmed what I sayd aboue how hard it is to find evidence in holy Scripture the matter and manner wherof surpasses all naturall witt seing the words of men are so confidently alledged out of those places wherin they purposely teach profess and proue the direct contrary of that for which they are produced as here you say that the words you cite out of Bellarmine are as you conceyue as home to your purpose as you could wish them 99. Object 2. You say Pag 337. N. 20. S. Luke plainly professeth that his intent was to write all things necessary And Pag 212. N. 43. For S. Luke that he hath written such a perfect Gospell that is as you speake the whole substance all the necessary parts of the Gospell of Christ in my judgment it ought to be with them that belieue him no manner of question And this you endeavour to proue out of these words of S. Luke in the Introduction to his Gospell For asmuch as many haue taken in hand to set forth a declaration of those things which are most surely believed amongst vs even as they delivered vnto vs which from the beginning were eye-witnesses and ministers of the word it seemed good to me also having had perfect vnderstanding of things from the first to write to thee in order most excellent Theophilus that thou mightest know the certainty of those things wherin thou hast bene instructed To this place you add the entrance to his history of the Acts of the Apostles the former treatise haue I made ô Theophilus of all that Iesus began both to doe and teach vntill the day in which he was taken vp Therfor say you all things necessary to salvation are certainly contayned in S. Lukes writing alone 100. Answer First you falsify S. Luke in saying that he plainly professeth that his intent was to write all things necessary For where do you find those words all things necessary And much less can you find that he plainly professeth to deliver all things necessary and least of all that he plainly professeth to deliver all necessary things plainly or evidently The Question is not between vs whether all necessary things be contayned in scripture obscurely or implicitely or in a generall way of referring vs to Gods Church for divers particulars but whether all necessary Points be contayned in scripture expressly in particular evidently without reference to the Tradition Interpretation or Declaration of the Church and it is evident that S. Luke hath no evident words to proue all that I haue sayd you must proue if you speake to the matter Which also appeares by considering that not only Catholiques amongst whom you will not deny but there are many learned pious and desirous to saue their soules but Protestants also see no such evidence for proving the sufficiency of S. Lukes Gospell or any other Gospell or particular Booke of Scripture taken alone seing their doctrine is that scripture contaynes all things necessary only after the Canon was finished and yet S. Lukes Gospell was written forty yeares before the whole scripture was written For this cause Protestants interpret Omnis scriptura vtilis est 2. Tim. 3.16 All scripture is profitable not distributiuè for every particular part or Booke of scripture but collectiuè for the whole Bible and some English Protestant Translation Ann 1586. hath not All scripture but the whole Bible is profitable where by the way is to be noted how they can helpe their errours by their different Translations and how litle credit is to be given to their Bibles Neither do Protestants commonly alledge these Texts of S. Luke for the sufficiency of scripture but other places as we haue seene aboue and who can imagine that they would haue omitted so pregnant a proofe if they were of your mynd concerning the evidence therof Remember here what you say Pag. 61. N. 24. The thing is not evident of it self which is evident because many do not belieue it How then can the words and meaning of S. Luke be evident of themselves seing so many both your Brethren and Adversaryes neither see nor belieue any such meaning Call also to mynd what you write Pag 99. N. 119. How shall I be assured that the places haue indeed this sense in them Seing there is not one Father for 500. yeares after Christ that does say in plaine termes the Church of Rome is infallible This I retort and fay seing there is not I say not one Father for 500. yeares after Christ but not one learned writer for 1500. yeares after Christ that interprets this Text as you doe How shall I be assured that this place hath indeed this sense in it Yea even by this appeares the necessity of a living judg to declare the true meaning of this and other Texts of Scripture as occasion shall require 101. 2. S. Luke saith Assecuto omnia Having had perfect vnderstanding of All And the former Treatise haue I made of all that Jesus began both to doe and teach Of All All is a signe of Vniversality he that sayes all excepts nothing If therfor we follow the plaine obvious vsuall Grammaticall and Logicall sence it must signify that S. Luke delivered in writing absolutely all that our Saviour wrought and taught But this larg notion you cānot admitt without contradicting S. John Cap 21.25 But there are many other things which Jesus did which if they were written in particular neither the world it-self I thinke were able to containe those books that should be writtē Well thē being drivē from the Logicall ād seeming evidēt notion of All you must vnderstand All not in the whole latitude of the word but with some restriction I pray you shew vs this particular restriction not from any probable vncertaine topicall discourse of your own but from some certaine express evident Text of Scripture declaring this restriction But this is impossible for you to doe as every child will see Therfor this your argument is already at an end for as much as can be proved out of
any Text of Scripture which to you is the only rule of Faith 102. Perhaps some will vnderstand All to signify all things profitable But this sense cannot be admitted since no man can deny but that the knowledg of those things which S. John witnesseth not to haue bene written had bene profitable to vs now as then the performance or delivering them was to the beholders or hearers It were blasphemy to say that S. Paul exercised an idle action or recited vnprofitable words when Act. 20.35 he sayd you must remember the word of our Lord Jesus because he sayd it is more a blessed thing to giue rather then to take which words of our blessed Saviour are not to be found in S. Luke or the whole bible but S. Paule receyved them only by tradition Those things also which are omitted by S. Luke but recorded in the other Gospells no Christian will deny to be profitable Therfor by All we must not vnderstand All things profitable 103. Will you vnderstand by All all things necessary to be written by any First in this sense this text makes nothing for your purpose vnless first you begg the Question and suppose that all things necessary to be believed must also necessarily be written which is the very point in Question between vs. For if all things necessary to be believed are not particularly written in the bible then more is necessary to be believed than is necessary to by written and consequently though S. Luke had set downe all that is necessary to be written yet this would not proue that his Gospell contaynes all things necessary to be believed Secondly your selfe cannot allow of this sense without contradicting yourself who hold that every Gospell containes all things necessary to be believed and therfore S. Luke could not judg it necessary that he should write all such things which had bene but to repeare and write the things already written more than once Thirdly The common doctrine of Protestants is that the sole-sufficiency of scripture consists in the whole Canon or bible and therfor S. Luke according to this supposition could not think himself obliged to write every poynt necessary to be believed since he was not ignorant that before he wrote his Gospell the Gospels of S. Matthew and S. Marke and some Apostolicall Epistles were written and in them some poynts necessaty to be believed which therfor were not necessary to be written by him Wherfor you cannot maintayne this sense as being contradictory both to your self and the common doctrine of Protestants 104. What then remaynes but that S. Luke vnderstood All that was necessary to be written by himself without omission of any such point according to the particular purpose and End which he had in writing his Gospell by the particular motion assistance and direction of the holy Ghost as we see every one of the foure Evangelists and other Canonicall writers do not deliver all the same things for matter or manner as the holy Ghost for ends knowen to his Infinite Wisdome did moue and direct them This sense is true and contaynes both a full Answer and a cleare Confutation and as I may say a totall Destruction of your Objection for any force it can haue against vs. For now you are obliged to proue out of some other evident text of scripture that the Holy Ghost intended that S. Luke should write in his Gospell all things necessary to be believed before you can assure vs that he by the word All vnderstood all such necessary points but then you change your Medium or Argument and passe to a new distinct proof and clearly confess that the Objection which you haue brought is of no force vnless antecedently to this word All you proue that S. Luke intended to sett downe in particular all necessary Poynts Yea though you could proue by some other Argument independently of the word All that S. Lukes purpose was to write all necessary Points of Faith yet from thence you could only infer that if All were taken in that sense it should containe a truth but not that it hath de facto that sense and not some other meaning because there is no necessity that every part of scripture contayne all truth though we are infallibly sure that it contaynes nothing but truth How vaine then is your bragg of the evidence of this Text of S. Luke for your purpose Even yourself shew how litle you can gather from the word All when Pag 210. N. 40. you say that every one of the Evangelists must be believed to haue expressed all necessary Poynts because otherwise how haue they complyed with their owne designe which was as the Titles of their Bookes shew to write the Gospell of Christ and not a part of it Thus you say and then add these words By the whole Gospell of Christ I vnderstand not the whole History of Christ but All that makes vp the covenant between God and man But by what or whose Commission do you vnderstand the whole Gospell with that limitation and declaration is not all that is contayned in the Gospell of S. Luke or of the other Evangelists part of their Gospells respectively And is not this still to begg the Question and suppose or take as granted that the designe of the Evangelists was to set downe all things necessary to salvation or all that makes vp the covenant between God and man Or do you not by this your voluntary restriction of All beare witness that you haue no other ground for vnderstanding All poynts or the whole Gospell to be vnderstood of all necessarie poynts except your owne voluntary affirmation and preconceyved opinion 105. Thirdly Of all men in the world you haue least reason to vrge this Text of S. Luke though it were granted the meaning therof to be that which you pretēd My reason is grounded in a doctrine which you deliver P 144. N. 32. in these words For those things which the Apostles professed to deliver as the Dictates of humane reason and prudence and not as divine Revelations why we should take them as divine revelations I see no reason nor how we can do so and not contradict the Apostles and God himself Which doctrine though in it self very vntrue yet being by you believed to be true engages you in a very hard taske of proving that S. Luke in these words all and of all intended to deliver a divine Revelation and not only a Narration of his owne Certainly if your doctrine could be true in any case it might with greatest reason be conceyved to be such in prefaces and like occasions wherin the writer may seeme to declare his owne intention endeavour and proceeding rather than matter of doctrine Manners or revelations from God as we see S. Luke in the preface to his Gospell sayth Visum est mihi assecuto omnia It seemed good to me not Visum est Deo mihi It hath seemd good to God and me or Visum est Spiritui
certaine things by writing and certaine by tradition with vvhom agrees S. Basile de spiritui sancto Cap. 27. saying some things we haue from scripture other things from the Apostles tradition c both which haue like force vnto godlines that Dr. Reynolds in his conclusions annexed to his conference 1. conclus Pag. 689. ansvvering to these sayings of S. Epiphanius and S. Basil sayth I took not vpon me to control them but let the Church judge if they considered with advise enough c And for other Fathers both Greek and Latine they are so plaine for tradition against the sufficiency of scripture taken alone that as may be seene in Brierley Tract 1. sect 3. subdivis 12. wheras S. Chrysostome saith in 2. ad Thessal Hom 4. The Apostles did not deliver all things by writing but many things without and these be as worthy of credit as the other Whitaker de Sacra Scriptura Pag 678. in answer therto sayth I answer This is an inconsiderate speech and vnworthy so great a Father And wheras Eusebius Lib 1. Demonstrat Evangel Cap 8. is objected to say That the Apostles published their doctrine partly without writing as it were by a certaine vnwritten law Whitaker Pag 668. saith therto I answer that this testimony is plaine enough but of no force to be receyved because it is against the Scripture And of S. Austine Cartwright saith in Mr. Whitgifts Defence Pag 103. If S. Austines judgment be a good judgment then there be some things commanded of God which are not in the Scriptures Yea not to insist vpon every particular Father Kemnitius Exam Part 1. Pag 87.89.90 reproves for their like testimony of vnwritten Traditions Clemens Alexandrinus Origen Epiphanius Hierome Maximus Theophilus Basil Damascen c Fulk also confesses as much of Chrysostome Tertullian Cyprian Austine Hierome c And Whitaker acknowledgeth the like of Chrysost Epiphanius Tertullian Austine Innocentius Leo Basil Eusebius Damascene c. Now sir are not these Fathers and Ancient Doctours who teach that the Apostles haue not delivered all things in writing directly opposite to your contrary Assertion so often repeated but without any proofe which you know is but to begg the Question Of people without succession of Pastours which is the ground of Tradition we may truly say as Optatus saith of the Donatists Lib. 2. cont Parm. Sunt sine Patribus filii c. They are children without Fathers disciples without maisters and in a prodigious manner begotten and borne of themselves 166. I will make an end of this matter if first I haue noted that it is a false glosse of yours like to that which I haue noted aboue and directly against S. Irenaeus that when he sayth those Heretiks taught that truth cannot be found by those who know not Tradition he must meane sufficient truth as if those heretiks had agreed with Catholikes that all truth is not sufficiently contayned in scripture alone wheras S. Irenaeus expressly declares the doctrine of those Heretiks to haue been that the scriptures were not right and came not from good authority but were various one from another as I haue shewed and yourself affirme in those very words which you translate out of S. Irenaeus and so not only sufficient truth could not be learned in the scriptures but they could not assure vs of any truth at all Wheras you say to haue sayd against those Heretiks that part of the Gospell which was preached by Peter was written by S. Mark and some necessary parts of it omitted had been to speake impertinently and rather to confirme than confute their errour I must say that your consequence is no less impertinent than your supposition is false because no body did ever go about to confute those Heretiks by saying that part of the Gospell was written and some part omitted but by proving that the scriptures were true and of infallible authority which they denyed and also that beside scripture there are true Catholique Traditions opposite to the foolish traditions of those Heretiks from which truth may be learned both which Points S. Irenaeus proves and so confutes the double errour of those heretiks that truth could be found neither by the scriptures nor by the Traditions of Catholiques and therby expressly makes good such Traditions and that both out of scripture and Tradition we may learne some Points of Christian Faith which is directly against that very thing for which you alledge him and proves my chief intent that scripture is not the only Rule of Faith To which purpose I beseech you heare your owne words Pag 345. N. 29. where you bring S. Irenaeus Lib. 3. Cap. 2. speaking thus to those Heretiks Your calumnyes against Scripture are most vnjust but yet moreover assure yourselves that if you will be tryed by Tradition even by that also you will be overthrowne For our Tradition is farr more famous more constant and in all respects more credible than that which you pretend to It were easy for me to muster vp against you the vninterrupted Successions of all the Churches founded by the Apostles all conspiring in their testimonyes against you But because it were too long to number vp the Successions of all Churches I will content my self with the Tradition of the most Ancient and most glorious Church of Rome which alone is sufficient for the confutation and confusion of your doctrine c Thus you And though you render very imperfectly both the words and meaning of S. Irenaeus and in some words following those which I haue sett downe falsify his sense And therfor I beseech the Reader to examine the place yet this is sufficient to shew by your owne confession what was the judgment of this glorious Saint and Martyr concerning Traditions and the no-necessity that all Poynts of Faith should haue bene written since we may receyue them from the Church 167. By the way For what mystery do you goe about to proue that S. Mark hath written all things necessary because S. Irenaeus Lib. 3. Cap. 1. saith Mark S. Peters disciple delivered to vs in writing those things which S. Peter had preached and yet do not apply the same proof to S. Luke of whom S. Irenaeus in the same place saith Luke a follower of Paul wrote downe the Gospell which had bene preached by him S. Paul To what purpose would you goe the further way about first proving that S. Mark hath all necessary points and from the nce inferring that S. Luke whose Gospell is larger than that of S. Mark must needs haue written all such things When as you might haue immediatly proved the same thing of S. Luke of whom S. Irenaeus speaks in the very same manner as he speaks of S. Mark 168. From S. Mark you passe to S. John whom Pag. 211. N. 42. you would proue to haue written all necessary points because he saith Many other signes also did Iesus in the sight of his disciples which are not written in this Booke But these
our Saviours express warrant and injunction to goe and preach to all Nations Christ then according to you did not depriue the Apostles of freewill though he proposed externally the Object and gaue them sufficient Grace to performe his will For if he had mooved them to Truth by way of necessity they could not haue erred If you grant this what will follow but that as the Church so the Apostles might deviate from that which God declared and commanded and consequently either belieue amiss or not set downe faithfully in writing what they believed Which is also confirmed by what you write P. 86. N. 93. If it were true that God had promised to assist you for the delivering of true Scripture would this oblige Him or would it follow from hence that he had obliged himself to teach you not only sufficiently but effectually and irresistibly the true sense of scripture And a little after God is not lavish in superfluityes and therfor having given vs meanes sufficient for our direction and power sufficient to make vse of these meanes he will not constraine or necessitate vs to make vs of these meanes For that were to crosse the end of our Creation which was to be glorifyed by our free Obedience Wheras necessity and freedom connot stand togeather And afterward If God should worke in vs by an absolute irresistible necessity the Obedience of Faith c he could no more require it of vs as our duty than he can of the sun to shine of the Sea to ebb and flow and of all other creatures to do those things which by meere necessity they must do and cannot choose And Pag 88. N. 96. you say expressly That God cannot necessitate men to belieue aright without taking away their free will in believing and in professing their belief It seemes by these words you hold the Apostles to haue had freewill in believing preaching and writing and that therfor it was in their power to deviate from Gods will and motion and then according to your grounds as the church so also the Apostles might erre Which deduction is also proved by your words Pag 172. N. 71. The spirit of truth may be with a man or Church for ever and teach him all Truth and yet he may fall into some errour even contrary to the truth which is taught him only sufficiently and not irresistibly so that he may learne it if he will not so that he must and shall whether he will or no. Now who can assertaine me that the spirits teaching is not of this nature Or how can you possibly reconcile it with your Doctrine of freewill in believing if it be not of this nature Now if you do not depriue the Apostles of freewill because otherwise God could no more require of them as their duty to belieue preach and write such truths as were inspired by Him than he can of the sun to shine of the sea to ebb and flow c this discourse of yours takes away their infallibility and proves that they might fall into some errour even contrary to the truth which was taught or revealed to them and the contrary assertion cannot possibly be reconciled with their freewill And Pag 87. N. 95. you say If the Holy Ghosts moving the Church be resistible then the Holy Ghost may moue and the Church may not be moved And why do you not say if the Holy Ghosts moving the Apostles to belieue preach and write Scripture be resistible it must in the same manner follow that the Holy Ghost may move and the Apostles may not be moved and so may belieue preach and write errours 64. But this is not all the bitterness you Vent against the church in such manner as it wounds the Apostles no less than the church You say P. 86. N 93. and P. 87. N. 94. If you Church be infallibly directed concerning the true meaning of Scripture why do not your Doctours follow her infallible direction why doth she thus put her candâ—e vnder a bushell and keepe her Talent of interpreting Scripture infallâ—bly thus long wrapt vp in napkins why sets sheenot forth Infallible Commentaryes or Fxpositions vpon all the Bible Is it because this would not be profitable for Christians that Scripture should be interpreted It is blasphemous to say so The scripture itself tells vs all scripture is profitable And the scripture is not so much the words as the sense 65. In answer to this your weake and irreligious discourse I returne the like Demands whether the Apostles were infallibly directed concerning the true meaning or interpretatioÌ„ of scripture as they were for writing it I suppose you will say they were so directed Why then did they put their candle vnder a bushell and keepe their Talent of interpreting Scripture infallibly wrapt vp in napkins Why did they not set forth infallible commentaryes or expositions vpon all the bible Was it because this would not haue bene profitable for Christians that scripture should be interpreted It is blasphemous to say so The Scripture itself tells vs all scripture is profitable And scripture is not so much the words as the sence And when you haue made these Demands against the Apostles you may in like manner ascend higher and aske why divers parts of scripture were so written as they not only need expositions but that no mortall man can vnderstand them When you haue given a satisfactory answer to these Demands the same will answer your Questions concerning the church which being directed by the Holy Ghost will not faile to interpret declare and performe all that is necessary in order to the Eternall salvation of soules and in particular will supply by Tradition or other Meanes what is obscure or is not contayned in Scripture But then you aske againe N. 95. Whether this Direction of the Holy Ghost be resistible by the Church or irresistible I still answer by demanding whether the Motion of the Holy Ghost was resistible by the Apostles or irresistible If irresistible why may we not say the same of the church for those particular Actions of Interpreting Scripture and Deciding controversyes in Religion If resistible then either we are not sure that the Apostles did not deviate from the Motion of the holy Ghost as you inferâ— against the infallibility of the church or els we learne by this example of the Apostles that God may moue resistibly and yet infallibly for attainng that End which by meanes of such a Motion he intends This if you be resolved to deny we must conclude that the Apostles were not infallible in their writings and that we can haue no certainty that Scripture doth not containe errours But whatsoever you thinke the truth is that God wants not power to moue men resistibly and yet infallibly by divers wayes knowen to his infinite Wisdome I would gladly know whether you belieue that God can possibly be sure to make any one a Saint or a repentant sinner or can promise perseverance to the end I
most Fundamentall of all Articles in the Church that Iesus Christ the Son of God and the Son of Mary is the only Saviour of the world Surely one of you must be in such a most important and most Fundamentall errour that you cannot both be saved though you were inculpably ignorant of it as we haue seene out of Potter Pag 243. even concerning this particular Article And now I pray you consider this agreement of Protestants in the foresayd Articles of Repentance and Faith in Christ Iesus the Son of God and Saviour of the world which yet you confess to be simply necessary 24. Object 3. In the same Pag 159. N. 52. You say Suppose a man in some disease were prescribed a medicine consisting of twenty ingredients and he advising with Physitians should find them differing in opinion about it some of them telling hem that all the ingredients were absolutly necessary some that only some of them were necessary the rest only profitable and requisite ad melius esse lastly some that some only were necessary some profitable and the rest superfluous yet not hurtfull yet all with one accord agreeing in this that the whole receypt hid in it all things necessary for the recovery of his health and that if he made vse of it he should infallibly find it successfull what wise man would not thinke they agreed sufficiently for his direction to the recovery of his health I ust so these Protestant Doctours with whose discords you make such Tragedyes agreeing in Thesâ— thus far that the Scripture evidently containes all things necessary to salvation and that whosoever believes it and endeavours to find the true sense of it and to conforme his life vnto it shall certainly performe all things necessary to salvation and vndoubtedly be saved what matters it for the divection of men to salvation though they differ in opinion touching what Points are absolutly necessary and what not 25. Answer You Socinians who adore naturall reason and take pleasure in being esteemed considering men are much delighted in proposing similitudes which make a faire shew and may seduce the ignorant but being examined proue nothing against any except yoursel ves First This similitude can proue nothing vnless you begg the Question and suppose one receypt to haue in it all things necessary for the recovery of the diseased mans health that is Scripture to containe all Points necessary to salvation which you know we deny and say you erre in Thesi If with Scripture you would joyne the Tradition and Definitions of the Church your suppositions were true and your parity good Otherwise your receypt cannot haue all necessary ingredients 26. Secondly Suppose the sick man had great reason to belieue that the ground vpon which the Physitians build their opinion and agreement were not good nor such as he had any obligation at all to credit what sick man if he were also wise could judg their agreement to be sufficient for an vndoubted direction to the recovery of his health Heere then as in other severall occasions I must put you in mynd of your doctrine that we are not bound to belieue as an Object of our Faith Scripture to be the word of God but that we may reject it What then availes it me towards the belief of such or such Points that they are evident in Scripture if I do not belieue Scripture itself 27. Thirdly Suppose the ingredients were very soveraine and sufficient in themselves but that it were not in the sick mans power to procure them were the speculatiue agreement of the Physitians sufficient for his recovery So here It is impossible for most men to know all evideÌ„t texts of scripture which yet according to your grounds must make vp that number of Truths wherin one shall be sure to find all Fundamentall Points and so the agreement of Protestants that all necessary Truths are evidently contayned in Scripture is to little purpose since they cannot distinguish them from Points not necessary and for all men to know all Points evident in Scripture but not necessary is impossible and though it were possible yet being not of obligation for any man even though he be learned to know all such Texts defacto he might without sinne be ignorant of necessary Points which he can be certaine to know only by knowing absolutly all cleare places of Scripture and so be damned for want of believing some Point absolutly necessary necessitate medij which is a plaine contradiction that some Points should be necessary to salvation and yet that we are not bound to attaine the knowledg of them or that the End which is the knowledg of such Points should be necessary and the only meanes to attaine it be either impossible or at least not of obligation to any as certainly no man is obliged to know precisely all and every particular evident Text of Scripture which â—et in your way is the only meanes to know all Fundamentall Points as in your example if a sick man were obliged to procure the recovery of his health he must be obliged to make vse of that receypt which alone could be effectuall in order to that end 28. Fourthly Suppose I could not take such a receypt without danger of drinking poyson togeather with the wholsome ingredients your similitude which goes vpon the contrary supposition doth clearely proue nothing Thus it passes in our case Men left to themselves without the Direction and Traditions of the Church yea with direct opposition to her Definitions and Authority cannot chuse but by occasion of reading Scripture alone fall into many errours against some Divine Revelation delivered either in Scripture or by Tradition that is in the written or vnwritten word of God as we see by experience of old and new Heretikes and particularly by the dissensions of Protestants wherof some must needs contradict some Truth delivered in Gods Word either by detracting from or by adding to the true sense therof Now in divets places you affirme that every errour contrary to any revealed Truth is in its owne nature damnable without Repentance and you add Pag 158. N. 52. that for the most part men are betrayed into errours or kâ—â—t in them by their fault or vice or passion And therfore the true Conclusion will be that men presuming to reade and interpret Scripture by their owne wit without dependance on the Church ought to conceaue that they expose themselves to certaine danger of erring against some Divine Truth or Revelation that is to a thing in itself damnable Neither can they hope for any helpe from Sectaryes whom they see infinitly divided among themselves And if they take such men for their Physitians some of them will affirme some ingredients to be necessary or profitable which others will sweare to be ranke poyson and so every Protestant is left to himself and a particular Catalogne of Fundamentalls is necessary for every one All which is strongly confirmed by calling to mynd that even the most learned
and yet not to haue beene inspired by God himselfe against such men there were no disputing out of the Bible In which words you confess that one cannot gather that a writing is inspired by God even though he did belieue that the contents therof were all true You make him also contradict yourselfe who resolue the beliefe of Scripture into the tradition of all Churches aÌ„d C Ma specifies not the present Church but saith oÌ„ly that Hooker acknowledged that we belieue Scripture for the Authority of the Church He must also contradict himselfe who I suppose liking not the Puritans privat spirit and proving that it is not the word of God which doth or possibly can assure vs as may be seene in Charity Maintayned Pag 42. N. 7. citing the place of Hooker leaves nothing for our motiue to belieue it except the Church Yet no man denyes but what we first belieue for the Authority of the Church may afterward be illustrated and confirmed by Reason as Hooker saith The former inducement the Authority of Gods Church prevailing somwhat with vs before doth now much more prevaile when the very thing hath ministred farther reason And yourselfe in this Chapter N. 47. explicate some words of Potter in this very sense which now I haue declared And therfore consider whether you do well in relating Mookers words to leaue out these words which are immediatly joyned to those which you cite If I belieue the Gospell yet is reason of singular vse for that it confirmeth me in this my beliefe the more Is this to say that naturall reason as it is distinguished from tradition or Authority of the Church in which sense we now speake of it is the last thing into which our beliefe of Scripture is resolved seing such a confirmation by Reason comes after we haue believed You say that when Hooker saith When we know the whole Church of God hath that oâ—inion of the Scripture c the Church he speakes of seenes to be that particular Church wherin a man is bredd where I put you in mynd of what you sayd in another place that A Church signifyes a particular Church and The Church as Hooker speakes signifyes the vniversall How then do you say That by The Church he signifies a particular Church Or how is the Distinction of A and The Church such as you would haue men belieue But this I let passe and aske you what finally you will haue Hookers opinion to be concerning the meanes for which we belieue with certainty Scripture to be the word of God The private Spirit You know he was an Anti-Calvinist and the private spirit could not sute with his genius Naturall Reason That is evidently against reason as we haue shewed and you grant And when he speakes most of reason he speakes of infidells or Atheists calling in question the authority of Scripture who may be perswaded by Sanctity of Christian doctrine c So there remaines only the Authority of the Church if you will haue him to say anything Dr Covell in his defence of Hookers Bookes Art 4. Pag 31. saith clearly Doubtless it is a tolerable Ovinion in the Church of Rome if they goe no further as some of them do not he should haue sayd as none of them doe to affirme that the scriptures are holy and divine in themselves but so esteemed by vs for the Authority of the Church These words of Covell were cited by Cha Ma N. 26. but it seemes you would take no notice of them and who could better vnderstand Hookers mynd than this his Defendant By the way we may obserue how hard it is to agree about the sense of holy Scripture which is more sublime than humane Writings if we cannot agree about the meaning of men 2. And by this occasion I must turne backe to your N. 11. where you quarrel at some words of Charity Maintayned and giue them a meaning clearly contrary to his sense and words You speake thus You in saying here that scripture alone cannot be Iudge imply that it may bo called in some sense a Iudge though not abone yet to speake propâ—â—ly as men should speake when they write of Controversyes in Religion the scripture is not a Iudge of CoÌ„troversyes but a rule only aÌ„d the only rule for Christians to iudge theÌ„ by But in this imputation you haue no reason at all to interpret Charity Maintayned as you doe For He in saying Scripture alone cannot be judge in Controversyes tooke only the contradictory of that which even in this place you affirme Protestants to belieue Scripture alone is the judge of Controversyes and therfore it was necessary for Him to declare his mynd by the contradictory proposition that Scripture alone is not the judge of Controversyes which is very true though iâ— be not a judge of Controversyes either by itselfe alone or in any other sense and you know he doth expressly and purposely and largely proue that it is against the nature of any Writing whatsoever to be a Judge and therfore when you say men should speake properly when they write of Controversyes in Religion and yet confess that Protestants have called Scripture the. Judge of Controversyes and that to speake properly the Scripture is not a Judge of Controversyes you taxe Protestants only and cannot so much as touch Charity Maintaynâ— 3. Here also I may speake a word to your N. 15. as belonging to interpretation You say To execute the letter of the Law according to rigour would be many tymes vnjust and therfore there is need of a Iudge to moderate it wherof in Religion there is no vse at all I pray you would it not be many tymes vnjust to execute the letter of the Scripture taken without a true and moderate interpretation And for this very caÌ„use there is great vse of a Judge and Authenticall interpreter otherwise some miscreant might murder his mother and brother vpon some mistaken Text of Scripture that idolaters were to be taken out of the world subjects might rebell no warr would be judged lawfull no oathes to be taken in any case c And here I willingly take what you N. 17. giue me that in Civill Controversyes every honest vnderstanding man is sit to be a Iudge but in Religion none but he that is infallible This I take and inferr that you wholy enervate the vulgar Argument of Protestants that Judges are to be obeyed though they be not infallible and therfore that we cannot inferr the Church to be infallible because we are commanded to heare Her not considering this difference which here your selfe giue betweene a Judge in Civill Controversyes and a Judge in Religion wherin such a Iudge is required whom we should be obliged to belâ—â—ue to haue judged right Which are your owne words wheras in Civill matters we are bound to obey the sentence of the Iudge or not to resist it but not always to belieue it â—ust which are also your words 4. Neither will I omitt
sinne of Protestants who do not only erre but also communicate with others who erre from which Communion we haue heard him confess that Charity Maintayned hath some probability to disswade men In the eyes of vulgar people this mixture of different Sects vnder one name of Protestancy may seeme a kind of good thing as bearing a shew of Charity yet indeed to wise men such communicants must appeare to be as litle zealous constant and firme in their owne Religion as they affect to be esteemed charitable to others And to every such Protestant doe fully agree those excellent words of glorious S. Austine de Civit Dei Lib 21. Cap 17. He doth erre so much the more absurdly and against the word of God more perversly by how much he seemeth to himself to Judge more charitably 12. Neither in this Discourse doe we relie vpon his wordsonly but on his Tenets and Grounds and such Truths as both hee often delivers and must be granted by all Christians namely that it is damnable to deny any least Truth sufficiently propounded to a man as revealed by God and therefore seing Protestants disagree about such Truths some of them must of necessity erre damnably And so he ought to alter the Title of his Book into the direct contradictorie and saie The Religion of Protestants not a safe way to salvation For bonum ex integra causa malum ex quocunque defectu and as we cannot affirme that Action to be vertuous which failes in any one morall circumstance so Protestants being confessedly guilty of damnable errours he must giue this Title to his Booke Protestancy not a safe way to salvation but vnrepented a certaine way to damnation 13. Or if he be resolved not to chang his Title vpon this Ground That albeit Protestants erre damnably yet they may be saved because they erre not in Fundamentall Articles absolutely and indispensably necessary to constitute one a member of the Church and in that regard may be either excused by Ignorance or pardoned by Repentance Then 14. I proue my second Proposition That for the verie same reason he must say and might haue put for the Title of his Book The Religion of Roman Catholiques a safe waie to salvation seing he expresly and purposely teaches through his whole Book that we erre not in fundamentall points and that we may be saved by ignorance or Repentance That our Errors be not Fundamentall he declares in plaine termes For Ch Ma in his preface to the Reader N. 13. having saied Since he will be forced to grant that there can be assigned no visible true Church of Christ distinct from the Church of Rome and such Churches as agreed with her when Luther first appeared whether it doe not follow that she hath not erred fundamentally because everie such errour destroyes the nature and being of the Church and so our Saviour should haue had no visible Church on earth To which demand Mr. Chillingworth answers in these words Pag 16. N. 20. I say in our sense of the word Fundamentall it does follow For if it be true that there was then no Church distinct from the Roman then it must be either because there was no Church at all which we deny Or because the Roman Church was the whole Church which we also deny Or because she was a part of the Whole which we grant And if she were a true part of the Church then she retained those Truths which were simply necessary to salvation and held no errours which were inevitably and vnpardonably destructiue of it For this is precisely necessary to constiture any man or any Church a member of the Church Catholique In our sence therefore of the word Fundamentall I hope she erred not Fundamentally but in your sense of the word I feare she did That is she held something to be Divine Revelation which was not something not to be which was Behold how he frees vs from all Fundamentall errors though he feares we are guilty of errours which he calls damnable that is repugnant to some Divine Revelation whereas he professes as a thing evident that some Protestants must erre fundamentally in that sense because they hold Contradictories of which both partes cannot be true And so even this for consideration he must say The Religion of Roman Catholiques a safer way to salvation than Protestancy seing he can not proue that we erre by Reason of any contradiction among ourselves in matters of Faith as it is manifest that one Protestant is contrarie to an other especially if we reflect that not onlie one particular or single person contradicts an other but whole Sects are at variance and contrariety as Lutherans Calvinists Anabaptists new Arians Socinians c The first point then it is cleare he confesses I meane that our supposed errours are not Fundamentall which is so true that whereas in severall occasions he writes or rather declaimes against vs for denying the cup to laymen and officiating in an vnknown toung as being in his opinion points directly contrarie to evident Revelation yet Pag 137. N. 21. he hopes that the deniall of them shall not be laid to our charge no otherwise then as building hay and stubble on the foundations not overthrowing the foundation itself 15. But for the second doth he hold that we may be excused by ignorance or saved by Repentance as he saieth Protestants may Heare what he speakes to Catholiques Pag 34. N. 5. I can very hardly perswade myself so much as in my most secret consideration to devest you of these so needfull qualifications of ignorancce and Repentance But whensoever your errors come into my minde my only comfort is amidest these agoriâ—s that the Doctrine and practise too of Repantance is yet remaining in your Church And this hee teaches through all his Book together with Dr. Potter and they vniversally affirme that those Catholiques may be saved who in simplicity of hart believe what they profess as they may be sure English Catholiques doe who might be begged for fooles or sent to Bedlam if they did not belieue that Faith and Religion be be true for the truth whereof they haue indured so long and grievous persecution Besides it being evident that many learned Protestants in the chiefest points controverted betwene them and vs agree with vs against their pretended Brethren as is specified and proved hereafter and is manifest by evidence of fact the Religion of Protestants cannot be safe or free from damnable Opinions vnless our Religion be also such For I hope they will not say that the selfe same Assertions taken in the same sense are true in the mouth of Protestants and false in ours We must therefore conclude that if he will make good his title The Religion of Protestants a safe way to salvation he must say the same of vs Catholiques whoâ— he acknowledges not to erre in fundamentall points and to be capable of inculpable Ignorance or Repentance for which selfsame respects he pretends The
seuerall Professions in poynt of Religion And as men ought not to be remooued from belieuing that there is a God though to our weake vndestandings there be presented Arguments touching his Nature Freedom of will Prouidence Preuision and the like of farr greater difficulty to be answered than can be objected against the jnfallibility of Faith so ought we not to deny the jnfallible Truth of Christian Faith notwithstanding those poore objections which this man and his Associates with equall impiety and boldness make against it And therfore both in the beliefe of a God and certainty of Faith Religion and worship of him we are to follow the certaine instinct of Nature and conduct of Piety not the vncertainty of our weake vnderstanding or liberty of will 5. For this cause as I sayd not only all Catholiques with a most Unanimous consent belieue profess and proclaime this truth in somuch as S. BouaueÌ„ture in 3. Dist 24. Art â— Q. 1. auoucheth Faith to be as jnfallible as the Prescience of God and Hâ—â—ensis 3. P. Q. 68. memb 7. affirmeth that Faith can be no more subject to falshood than the Prime Uerity but Protestants also and in particular D. Potter who Pag. 143. speakes clearly thus The chiefe principle or ground on which Faith rests and for which it firmely assents vnto those truths which the Church propounds is diuine Reuelation made in the Scripture Nothing less than this nothing but this can erect or qualify an act of supernaturall Faith which must be absolutely vndoubted and certaine and without this Faith is but opinion or at the most an acquired humane belief And Pag. 140. Humane authority consent and proofe may produce an humane or acquired Faith and infallibly in some sort assure the mynd of the truth of that which is so witnessed but the assent of diuine Faith is absolutely diuine which requires an object and motiue so infallibly true as that it neither hath nor can possibly admit of any mixture of errour or falshood Behold how he affirmes that Christian Faith doth more than only in some sort assure vs of the truth as Chillingworth will say it doth by an assent highly probable but that it must be absolutely diuine which he contradistinguishes from humane Faith making this not that absolutely certaine And indeed to litle purpose should Potter and all other Diuines require an Objest and Motiue jnfallibly true if likewise our assent to it be not jnfallible What auayles it that Diuine Authority be certaine and jnfallible in it selfe if in the meane tyme it remayme vncertaine whether such a Divine and jnfallible Authority interpose it selfe or witness any thing 6. But nothing can be imagined more effectuall and express against Chillingworth who Pag. 325. N. 3. saith That there is required of vs a knowledg of the Articles of our Faith and adherence to them as certaine as that of sense or science is a great errour and of dangerous and pernitious consequence Nothing I saie can be more cleare against this pernitious doctrine of Chillingworth than these words of Potter Pag. 199. Though the assent of Faith be more certaine if it be possible than that of sense or science or demonstration because it rests on diuine Authority which cannot possibly deceiue yet it is also an assent ineuident and obscure both in regard of the object which are thinges that do not appeare Hebr. 11.1 And in respect of the subject the eye of Faith in this state of mortality being dimme and apprehending heauenly things as through a glass darkly 1. Cor. 13.12 What could haue beene spoken more directly of the certainty and yet ineuidency of Faith against Chillingworth who both denyes that Faith is absolutely certaine and that certainty caÌ„ be without euidency as may be seene Pag. 330. N. 7. D Lawd Pag. 227. saith As for morall certainty that 's not stroÌ„g enough in points of Faith and Pag. 360. he directly affirmes that an jnfallible certainty is necessary for that one faith which is necessary to saluation which is the very same with our Title of this Chapter And Pag. 142. he saith That falshood may be the subject of the Catholike Faith were no lesse then blasphemy to affirme and yet Mr. Chillingworths Booke where in this blasphemy is purposely taught is expresly approud as agreable to the Doctrine of the Church of England by euery one of the three Approbators who can best giue account by whose Authority they were induced to so pernicious and foule a fact 7. But why do I alledg particular Persons This of the fallibility of faith is opposd by all Protestants and particularly they who teach that we know the Scripture to be the word of God by the spirit or instinct of the Holy Ghost hold Faith to be infallibly true Thus Caluin Lib. 1. jnstit C. 7. Sect. 4. saith Petenda est haec persuasio ab arcano spiritus testimonio This belief that Scripture is the word of God is taken from a secret testimony of the spirit And afterwards Testimonium spiritus omni ratione praestantius esse respondeo I answer that the testimony of the spirit is to be preferrd before all reason 8. And here is to be obserued that Chillingworth disagreeing from Protestants in this maine generall transcendentall point differs from them for euery particular in an essentiall attribute or perfection of Faith seing an assent only probable is essentially distinguished from an assent absolutely and infallibly certaine and so he opposes them in a higher degree then if he did contradict them in one or more chiefest particular Articles of faith or rather he cuts of at one blowe all the true belief of Christians by making it not certaine wherby men become no Christians as not belieuing in Christ with diuine certaine faith His tenet Pag. 367. N 49. that he who disbelieues one Article may yet belieue an other with true diuine faith is in no wise to be approoud but this his doctrine that Faith is fallible is farr worse as disbelieuing all and positiuely denying that certainty which is essentiall to diuine Faith and distinguisheth it from Opinyon or humane beliefe 9. This fundamentall truth that faith is absolutely certaine is very clearly deliuered in Holy Scripture S. Paule saith Hebr. 11.1 Faith is the substance of things to be hoped for the argument of things not appearing or as the Protestants English translation hath The substance and in the margine the ground or confidence of things hoped for the euidence of things not seene All which signifyes a firme certaine and as I may say substantiall faith stronger than any assent only probable Thus holy S. Bernard Ep. 190. disputing against Abailardus who taught that Faith was but Opinion saith Audis substantiam non licet tibi in fide putare vel disputare pro libitu c Doest thou heare the name of substance it is not lawfull for thee in Faith to thinke or dispute at thy pleasure nor wander hither and thither through the emptynes
N. 154. I hope you will giue vs leaue to consider whether the motiues to your Church be not impeached and opposed with compulsiues and enforcements from it so others will say of the Motiues to Christian Religion that they are impeached with contrary compulsiues from it besides the sublimity of the Misteryes themselues aboue humane Reason which is apt to doubt of whatsoever it doth not ynderstand as we feare not only bad but also vnknowne pathes and as to our eye the clearest skye if it be almost beyond our kenning seemes to be a kind of darkness Thus then the probability of Chillingworths faith being brought downe frō the highest pretended degree of probability becomes compatible with good and great probability of the contrary side as heate and cold if neither of them be in the most intense degree may stand togeather and consequently the vnderstanding may conceyue not only a possibility but a probability also and a feare that the Christian Religion is false For auoiding which wicked sequele there is no other remedy except to acknowledg Faith to be an Assent certaine and infallible aboue all probability of humane Motiues or arguments of Credibility 19. And in this occasion we may obserue that the examples vsually alleadged to proue that we can no more doubt of the Conclusion drawne from the Arguments of Credibility than a man doubts whether such an one be his father and the like doe not vrge but rather may be retorted For in such cases it is supposed that there are many good reasons for one side for example that such a man is father to such a child c. and none to the contrary But it happeneth otherwise in our case there being many and hards objections obuious to humane reason against the Mysteryes of Faith which may diminish that degree of assent which otherwise might be grounded vpon the Arguments of Credibility if they were considered alone as one could not belieue such a man to be his father if he had some very probable proofes for the contrary with the same firme perswasion as he would doe in case no such proofes did offer themselues and so as I sayd this and the like Arguments and examples may be retorted againist those who bring them and still we must conclude that we cannot belieue Christian Religion as we ought without an absolute certaine ād jnfallible Assent which will more appeare by the Reason following 20. These very Motiues of Credibility manuduce and send vs vp to an Authority which is able to transfuse greater perfection to our Assent than they themselues can giue Because they tell vs of Objects to be belieued for Diuine Reuelation and so proclaime themselves to be only Dispositions and Preparations which being supposed God affords his particular Grace for producing an Act proportionable to his Diuine Testimony as with some proportion by hearing or reading spirituall things the species are excited and God by that occasion giues inspiration for Faith Hope Charity c. aboue the naturall power of the externall words and as Experimentall knowledg by sense is a Disposition to Scientificall knowledg which yet takes not its nature essence and perfection from the senses 21. From hence it followes that men are obliged to belieue Christian Religion not in what manner soeuer but as a Doctrine deliuered and reuealed by God and therfor to be embraced aboue all that is aboue all contrary objects or objections and not to be altered vpon any occasion supposition or authority of men or Angels as S. Paule teaches vs by an impossible supposition to express the matter home Galat 1.8 Although we or an Angel from Heauen euangelize to you beside that which we haue euangelized to you be he anathema This admonition or denuntiation of S. Paule must needs suppose Christian Faith to be aboue all probability For it is euidently against reason to joyne togeather these two judgments or Assertions This doctrine is only probable and grounded only in probable and credible Arguments and yet That it is reasonable or necessary òr euen possible to assent to it in such manner as neuer to belieue the contrary though reasons seeming vpon the best examination a man can make better than the former should offer themselues against it seing it is certaine that he cannot be certaine that better reasons cannot possibly be offered For if he be certaine that better reasons for the contrary are not possible his assent is not probable but certaine Therfor since we are not to forsake Christian Religion for whatsoeuer possible motiue or Reason or Authority of Men or Angels we must giue it absolute certainty and not only probability 22. And because this kind of Argument is of greater moment than perhaps appeares at first sight I will dilate it by saying further that according to his Assertion about the probability of faith no Christian yea no man can be setled in any Religion since he must be ready to chang whensoeuer better reasons shal be presented against it neither can he be certaine that he may not sooner or later fynd some such reason For a faith only probable is a perpetuall Temptation to it selfe and we may truly say Accedens tentator dicit in the present Tense seing Probability doth not exclude some feare that the contrary may be true Nay euery consideration about Faith to such men as Chill who loue to be esteemed considering and discoursing men is more than a Temptation it is a yeelding or consent against Faith inuoluing this judgment Perhaps that which I belieue is false and the contrary true 23. Yea this vast absurdity doth not only flow from this doctrine but it is in effect acknowledged by him in express words Pag. 380. N. 72. Where he deeply taxes all Catholiques because they eyther out of idleness refuse the trouble of a scuere tryall of their Religion or out of superstition feare the euent of such a triall that they may be scrupled and staggered and disquieted by it and therfor for the most part doe it not at all or if they doe it they doe it without indifference without liberty of judgment without a resolution to leaue it if it proue apparentily false My owne experience assures me that in this imputation I doe you Catholiques no injury but it is very apparent to all men from your ranking doubting of any part of your Doctrine among mortall sinnes For from hence it followes that seing euery man must resolue he will neuer commit mortall sinne that he must neuer examine the grounds of it at all for stare he should be moued to doubt or if he doe he must resolue that no motiues be they neuer so strong shall moue him to doubt but that with his will and resolution he will vphold himselfe in affirme belief of your religion Doth not it appeare by these words that he must haue no such resolution as he reprehends in vs but must be ready to doubt or to leaue his and all Christian Religion And Pag. 326.
make vs evidently see what we belieue yet they evidently convince that in true wisdome and prudence the Articles of it deserue credit and ought to be accepted as things revealed by God and therfor say I with an Assent more certaine than can proceed from humane Authority or meere Arguments of Credibility 3. Divers great Philosophers hold that Accidents are not only dispositions to the substantiall Forme but reall causes therof immediatly producing it as they are instruments of the Principall substantiall Agents and make vp as it were one totall Cause with them According to this Philosophy your instances make against your selfe and do confirme the Doctrine of some grave Diuines that if we consider the Arguments of Credibility not as they are mere inducements precedent and disposing to Faith only shewing the object therof but as they integrate the Formall object or Divine Revelation we must say that they are elevated and raised vp to be part of the object and immediately causes of the Assent of Faith not of their owne force or taken alone but joyned with and conveying to our vnderstanding the Divine Revelation wherby they grow to be the voyce and testimony or as it were reall letters of God speaking to men by them For which cause S. Paule Heb 2.4 affirmes miracles to be a certaine speach of God saying God withall witnessing by signes and wonders where Theodoretus sayth that God by miracles giues a testimony to preaching Miracles therfor are in some manner the very voyce of God Whence S. Austine Ep 49. Quaest 6. absolutely sayeth God speakes by wonderfull workes And Marc vlt it is God cooperating and by signes confirming what they spoke And Ioan 10. Christ our Lord sayd concerning his owne workes They give testimony of me Therfor say these Divines Arguments of Credibility may be raised above themselues And so your examples and instances make nothing against vs but do confute your selfe Which contradicting of your selfe as in many other occasions so heere also forces me to stay yet a little in observing a couple of your contraryetyes or contradictions 81. The one is in these words Pag 329. and 330. If you speake of an acquired rationall discursive faith these Reasons which make the object seeme credible must be the cause of it If you speake of a supernaturall infused faith then you either suppose it infused by the former meanes and then that which was sayd must be sayd againe c Do not these words distroy themselues Or what sense can they beare An acquired rationall discursive faith caused by Reasons which make the object credible and a supernaturall infused faith infused by the former meanes that is by the Reasons which make the object seeme credible If an acquired rationall discursive faith be caused by the Reasons which make the Object credible and a supernaturall infused faith be caused by the same meanes and Reasons how do you distinguish a faith so acquired from a faith in the same manner infused Or rather how can it be a supernaturall infused Faith if it be caused by the same meanes by which an acquired discursive faith is caused In a word how is the same faith acquired and supernaturally infused 82. Your other contradiction I fynd Pag 36. and 37. N. 9. And Pag 112. N. 154. in both which places you grant to some a certainty of adherence beyond a certainty of evidence and yet in the former places you say of such men that the spirit of obsignation or confirmation makes them know what they did but believe Now if they know that they did but believe how is their certainty of adherence beyond their certainty of evidence seing you put such a knowledg as is more than Faith which implyes obscurity and consequently such a knowledg is indued with evidence and yourselfe Pag 325. N. 2. saie He that doth barely and meerly believe doth never know and that science and knowledg are synonymous termes Therfor you speak of an evident knowledg and then I say how comes their certainty of adhesion to be beyond their certainty of evidence Or how can you speake of a certainty of adhesion beyond the certainty of evidence Who Pag 330. N. 7. say That power which infuseth into the vnderstanding assent must also infuse Evidence into the object and looke what degree of assent is infused into the vnderstanding at least the same degree of evidence must be infused into the object If at least the same degree of evidence must be infused into the object which is in the Assent how can the Assent be beyond the evidence of the object 83. To these your contradictions I add your saying Pag 37. N. 9. What God gives as a reward to believers is one thing and what he requires of all men as their duty is an other and what he will accept of out of grace and favour is yet an other To those that believe and live according to their faith he gives by degrees the spirit of Obsignation and confirmation which makes them know though how they know not what they did but believe He requires of all that their faith should be proportionable to the Motives and Reasons enforcing to it he will accept of the weakest and lowest degree of faith if it be living and effectuall vnto true obedience In which words you distinguish three sorts of persons which yet according to your owne words must fall to be the same First of them who believe and live according to their faith 2. of those who performe what is required of them as their duty and 3. of them whose faith God will accept out of grace and favour For to believe and live according to their faith to have a faith effectuall to obedience and working by love is required of all as their duty such a faith I say is required and will be accepted by the law which God hath prescribed Matt 19. V. 17. If thou wilt enter into life keepe the Commandements and no less will be accepted out of Grace and Favour Otherwise it should be and not be required and so your triple distinction of persons destroyes it selfe and ends in one only sort 84. I would gladly go forward to your other Objections but first you must give me leave to confute and turne against your self a saying which hath too much of the insolent and injourious against true Christian Faith in these words Pag. 329. N. 7. Your Faith if you please to have it so let it be a free necessitated certaine vncertaine evident obscure prudent and folish naturall and supernaturall vnnaturall assent 85. All this groundless insulting I will retort against your self eveÌ„ out of your owne grounds aÌ„d joyntly will shew that it belongs nothing at all to our Faith First your Faith is free and necessitated Free if you will stand to your owne express words Pag 329. N. 7. that there is obedience in it which you say can hardly haue place where there is no possibility of disâ—bâ—dience as there is not where
not such a feeling of Scripture and the Gospell of Christ they are no Christians nor ought we to forbeare the declaring how necessary infallible Faith is for any panicall feare of this Pharisaicall scandall Rather we are obliged to declare the truth least we become accessary to their perdition which none can avoyd who deny the certainty of Christian Faith and Religion and rest in the false confidence of fallible probable faith of the same kind with the belief which they give to the truth of other storyer I know you rely much vpon that Axiom that the Conclusion followes the weaker Premise but I did not imagine as I touched hertofore you would so farr betray yourselfe as to hold that If one have probable Motives to believe that some Man did testify a truth and have equall Motives that God reveales or witnesserh the same thing his assent to that truth as it is witnessed by God is not greater than his belief therof as it is witnessed by man if the Reasons for which I believe it is witnessed by God and by Man be of equall strength and yet you must say so if with your considering men you believe the Scripture and Gospell of Christ with the same kind of belief which they give to the truth of other storyes Wherin I confess you would doe as all Heretiques are wont pass from ill to worse For Pag 141. N. 27. you say For the incorruption of Scripture I know no other rationall assurance we can have of it then such as we have of the incorruption of other ancient Bookes that is the consent of ancient Copyes such I meane for the kind though it be farr greater for the degree of it And Pag 62. N. 24. speaking also of the incorruption of Scripture you say I know no other meanes to be assured herof than I have that any other Book is incorrupted For though I have a greater degree of rationall and humane Assurance of that than this in regard of divers considerations which make it more credible That the Scripture hath bene preserved from any materiall alteration yet my assurance of both is of the same kind and condition both Morall assurances and neither Physicall or Mathematicall But now you are very carefull that the faith of considering men be not crackt by too much straining but be left to believe the Gospell of Christ with such a kind of assent as they yeald to other matters of tradition and is vndiscernable from the belief they give to the truth of other storyes Vnhappy men who relying on their considering and discoursing forget that Christian Faith is a Gift infused by the Holy Ghost and not to be measured by meere humane Motives or Rules of logick I will not loose tyme in telling you that a thing may be crack't by too much strayning not only by excess as you vnjustly accuse vs but also by way of Defect such as your weake faith is in order to the true saving Faith of Christians which being reduced to probability looseth its very Essence and Kind 102. Object 8. Against these words of Charity Maintayned Chap 6. N. 2. Allmighty God having ordained man to a supernaturall End of Beatitude by supernaturall meanes it was requisite that his vnderstanding should be enabled to apprehend that End and meanes by a supernaturall knowledg And because if such a knowledge were no more than probable it could not be able sufficiently to over-beare our will and encounter with humane probabilityes being backed with the strength of flesh and bloud it was further necessary that this supernaturall knowledg should be most certaine and infallible and that Faith should believe nothing more certainly then that it selfe is a most certain Belief and so be able to beare downe all gay probabilityes of humane Opinyon You argue thus Pag 327. N. 5. Who sees not that many millions in the world forgoe many tymes their present ease and pleasure vndergoe great and toyisome labours encounter great difficultyes adventure vpon great dangers and all this not vpon any certaine expectation but vpon a probable hope of some future gaine and commodity and that not infinite and eternall but finite and temporall Who sees not that many men abstaine from many things they exceedingly desire not vpon any certaine assurance but a probable feare of danger that may come after What man ever was there so madly in love with a present penny but that he would willingly spend it vpon a little hope that by doing so be might gaine a hundred thousand pound and I would faine know what gay probabilityes you could devise to disswade him from this Rosolution And if you can devise none what reason then or sence is there but that a probable hope of infinite and eternall happyness provided for all those that obey Christ Iesus and much more a firme faith though not so certain in some fort as sense or science may be able to sway our will to obedience and encounter with all those temptations which Flesh and Bloud can suggest to avert vs from it Men may therfor talke their pleasure of an absolute and most infallible certainty but did they generally belieue that obedience to Christ were the only way to present and eternall felicity but as firmely and vndoubtedly as that there is such a Citty as Constaninople nay but as much as Caesars Commentaryes or the History of Salust I belieue the life of most men both Papists and Protestants would be better than they are Thus therfor out of your owne words I argue against you He that requires to true faith an absolute and infallible certainty for this only Reason because any less degree could not be able to overbeare our will c imports that if a less degree of faith were able to doe this then a less degree of faith may be true and divine and saving faith But experience shews and Reason confirmes that a firme faith though not so certaine as sense or science may be able to encounter and overcome our will and affections And therfor it followes from your owne reason that faith which is not a most certaine and infallible knowledg may be true and divine and saving faith 103. Answer First when Charity Maintayned wrote against D. Potter who with other Protestants and Catholiques maintaynes the infallibility of Christian Faith he never dreamed of any necessity to proue such an infallibility and therfor he touched that point incidently and not of purpose as a thing presupposed not to be proved And therfor what you object against vs is to be answered by those whom you call Brethren 104. Secondly I might speedily and easily answer in one word That your Objection doth not so much as touch the Argument of Char Maintayned which was that vnless Faith were infallible it would not be able to beare downe all probabilityes of humane Opinyon offering themselves against it that is it could not be constant and permanent and therfor must either be infallible or end in none at
necessity of an infallible certaine Faith as I haue shewed as also that your Objection and endeavour to proue that a fallible Faith is sufficient for the exercise of good workes is nothing to the purpose since Char Maintayned spoke of sufficiency to obserue the precepts of Faith and if you belieue S. Iohn Chrysostome cited aboue that according to S. Paule it is a harder matter to belieue the high mysteries of our Faith than to exercise good workes you will easily inferr that although you could proue a probable Faith to be sufficient in order to Obedience or exercise of good workes yet it would not therfor remaine proved to be sufficient for believing as we ought And S. Chrysostome saying that it is so hard a thing to belieue supposes Christian Faith to be more than probable 108. Fourthly I say That although the words of Char Maintayned be taken in the sense which you would put vpon them yet your Arguments are of no force to confute them or to prove that a fallible Faith is able to overcome our will ād encounter with humane probabilityes backed with the strength of flesh and bloud And First I must intreat you not to cosen your Reader as a Minister foold his Auditours who after he had spoken much of Gods Commandements in the close of his discourse desired not to be mistaken as if he belieued that those Commandements of which he had spoken could be kept for it was very certaine they could not which if he had told them in the beginning he might haue spared his owne paynes and the exercise of their patience in hearing his prating and praysing an impossible thing Our Saviour sayd if thou wilt enter into life keepe the commādemēts Matth 19.17 These men tell vs if thou wilt enter into life belieue firmily as a matter of Faith that thou canst not keepe the commandements But to our purpose least Mr Chilling loose his labour and deceaue his Hearers I must beseech him to deale plainly and before he goes about to moue their wills he would in forme their vnderstandings by letting them know that he is to speake of infinite and eternall happyness provided for all those that obey Christ Iesus and of vnspeakeable eternall torments to be inflicted on all such as break his commandemēts but withall he must assure them that although both Papists and Protestants teach that all must belieue with absolute certainty there is a Heauen a Hell Eternall rewards and punishments a Sauiour a Resurection working of miracles and the like yet that with men considering discoursing and vsing rationall deductions according to the never failing rules of Logick which are his words in severall parts of his Booke such as He and his fellowes are the matter passeth farr otherwise For they belieue that the teaching a necessity of such a certaine Faith is a Doctrine most presumptuous and vncharitable Pag. 328. N. 6. and a greate errour and of dangerous and pernicious consequence Pag. 325. N. 3 And that indeed the Articles which all Christians belieue may for ought they know Certainly to the contrary in the end proue false and no better than dreames Thus I must intreate him to prepare his Auditours and then let vs heare how he will goe about to perswade yea oblige them vnder payne of eternall damnation to the observance of things most difficult and repugnant to humane principles naturall inclinations flesh and bloud self-loue and in a word which are To the Gentils foolishness to the Iewes a scandall 1. Cor 1.23 and besides are not present and within sight as things of this life are but remote and of an other world Let vs thē heare him preaching rather than prouing in the words which I cited in the Objection who sees not that many millions c 109. To which your loose kind of disputing diverse would giue different answers Perhaps some hearing from others your so many changes of Religion and from your self that your present belief is but probable they would take tyme for tryall how long you would persever in your sect of a late Date for tyme and strange for the nouelty as being contrary both to Protestans with whom you liued so long tyme and against Catholiques to whom you joynd your selfe not by any force for who or what except evidence of truth could force you to a Religion lying vnder the burthen of a long and cruell persecution but vpon due consideration of Reasons on all sides and not taking things at a second hand or vpon credit but by examination made immediatly by your selfe or by conference with others who gaue you all freedom and encouragement to propose your difficultyes And for this their delay in resolvinge they might perhaps make vse of a saying of your owne Pag 330. N. 7. He who requires that I should see things farther than they are visible requires I should see something invisible and apply it to this sense That you who flitted from a Faith which you believed then to be certaine to a belief confessedly not certaine and perswade others to do the same may in tyme passe from a non-certainty to a non-entity or non-existence of all Faith and so by degrees bring your proselytes to plaine infidelity 110. Others will answer That indeed if men were once infaliibly certaine of the great promises and threats you mention of Heaven Hell Resurrection from death c. They could excogitate no satisfying reason to avoide Obedience and keeping the commandements Yet while we suppose them to be deliberating about the election of their Faith and actually enjoying or in a way or possibility and freedom to enjoy things of profit and pleasure in this world which are present and certaine and proportionable to their naturall inclinations and powers of Body ād soule ād thē heare you telling thē that no Religion is certaine and talking of things to come a farr of and in another world which to humane reason not assisted by certainty of Faith looke like the spatia imaginaria before the world was created you ought not to wonder if notwithstanding all the fayre words in your Objection men would be apt to pleade the possession of their Freedom and liberty which they will not easily bring vnder so strict obligation and seeming heauy yoke meerly vpon a belief concerning which your selfe profess to have only this certainty that it is not certaine Christians firmely belieue by Faith know evidently by reason see dayly by experience that dye they must they heare all men say and themselves belieue Death to be Omnium terribilium terribilissimum the most dreadfull of all dreadfull things and yet we see they more apprehend the danger of wetting their cloathes by a gentle shower threatned instantly to fall than death it selfe And why because the one is apprehended as almost present the other is looked on as farr of for space of tyme as the vast body of the sun seemes to be a small thing by the great distance of place Besides divine
bloud Act 20.28 a Church on earth indued with all things necessary for the whole Community or mysticall Body For every State or Degree For every single Person or Member therof And therfor to maintayne that Scripture alone contaynes all poynts necessary to be believed must imply that in or from Scripture alone we may evidently learne what is necessary to be believed of all according to the triple mentioned consideration or distinction of Persons which Distinction we will here only touch cursarily and precisely as farr as is necessary for our present purpose 3. The Church as it signifyes one Community or mysticall Body necessarily requires some kind of Governours or Pastours Meanes and Manner to provide for a Succession of them Power to enact lawes and to punish offenders by spirituall Censures some vndoubtedly lawfull Liturgy or publike worship of God Sacraments and to omitt other thinges in particular some certaine infallible Meanes to know this very Poynt whether Scripture alone contayne evidently all thinges necessary to Salvation without certayne knowledg wherof there can be no certainty in the Faith of Protestants 4. But now for different Degrees or Officers in the Church more or lesse knowledg is necessary according to their severall obligations ād Dutyes as for Bishops Pastours Priests c who for example are obliged to teach others Ordaine Priests conficere and administer Sacraments c 5. Lastly for every particular Person or member of the Church some things are absolutely necessary in the judgment both of Catholikes and Protestants as v. g. Faith True and Divine for essence and sufficient for Extension for all points absolutely necessary to be expressly believed and Repentance after deadly sin committed and according to Catholiks Baptisme in Re for children and in Re or Voto for Adulti as also the Sacrament of Pennance after the committing of Actuall sinne if it be deadly and finally the keeping and consequently knowing of the Commandements 6. For explication of the word evident I note that to be contayned evidently in Scripture may be vnderstood in three manner of wayes First that some Poynt be contayned in particular and so evidently that no man who vnderstands the language can doubt what it signifyes according to the vsuall signification of the word and that in such a Text it is taken in such a common signification and not in some figurative or mysticall or morall sense as divers tymes it happens For if it be capable of such a sense I must haue some certainty that it is not taken so before I can ground vpon it an infallible Assent of Faith and therfor I must haue more than only probable that is some certaine and infallible meanes to know whether it be taken in the common signification or if it haue more vsuall or common significations than one in which of them it is taken Which depending on the Free will of God can be knowne only by Revelation that is according to Protestants by some other evident Text of Scripture and so without end vnless they can find some Text necessarily determined to one only sense 7. Secondly evident may signify that some poynt be indeed contayned in Scripture in it selfe or in particular but not so as to be vnderstood clearly and certainly by Vertue of the words taken alone without the help of some interpreter to whom if antecedently we giue credit that will become evident to vs by his interpretation which before was obscure as the words of the Prophet Isay became evident to the Eunuch by the Declaration of S. Philip whom he tooke for a true interpreter Act. 8. V. 35. 8. Thirdly A thing may be evident in Holy Scripture not in particular or in it selfe but in some generall Meanes or Authority expressly and clearly delivered and recommended to vs by Scripture which being once believed and accepted with a firme Assent whatsoever such a Meanes or Authority doth evidently propose may be sayd to be evidently contayned in Scripture not in it selfe but in that generall Meanes expressly recommended by Scripture In this manner S. Augustine speaking of Rebaptization of such as were baptized by Heretiques sayth De vnitate Eccle Cap 22. This is neither openly nor evidently read neither by you nor by me Yet if there were any wise man of whom our Saviour had given testimony and that he should be consulted in this question we should make no doubt to performe what he should say least we might seeme to gainsay not him so much as Christ by whose testimony he was recommended Now Christ beareth witnes to his Church And a little after whosoever refuseth to follow the practise of the Church doth resist our Saviour himselfe who by his testimony recommends the Church And Lib 1. cont Crescon Cap 32. 33. We follow indeed in this matter even the most certaine authority of Canonicall Scriptures But how Consider his words Although verily there be brought no example for this point out of Canonicall Scriptures yet even in this point the truth of the same Scriptures is held by vs while we do that which the authority of Scriptures doth recommend that so because the Holy Scripture cannot deceiue vs whosoever is afrayd to be deceived by the obscurity of this question must haue recourse to the same Church concerning it which without any ambiguity the Holy Scripture doth demonstrate to vs. 9. In one of these two latter senses Catholike Authors may truly affirme all things necessary to be evidently contaynd in Scripture But Protestants who reject the infallibility of the Church must vnderstand it in the first sense only according to which they remayne obliged to a very hard taske of proving First in generall out of evident Scripture that all things necessary to be believed are evident in Scripture 2. of proving every particular Point of Faith out of Scripture immediatly or by certaine and cleare deductions from it and not by topicall Arguments of their owne fancy which they will needs be calling or rather miscalling Reason 3. of proving every Point out of evident Scripture and so evident that it be certaine the words de facto are not taken in some sense of which they are capable different from their vsuall common obvious and as I may say most litterall signification as Protestants interpret the words This is my Body For since the words concerning which the Question arises are still the same their meaning must be taken from some other evident Text as I sayd aboue and so without end vnlesse they can alledge some words which certainly cannot be taken in any sense but one though of themselves they be capable of more and though even divers chief learned Protestants teach that one Text of Scripture may haue diverse litterall senses Nay here is not an end of their labours For since the word Evident may be fitly taken in three senses of which that only which I put in the first place is accepted by Protestants they must proue by some Evident Text that all things
necessary are evidently contayned in Scripture in that first sense and by an evidence of the Text alone without dependance or relation to any other thing for example the Church or Tradition which particulars surely the Scripture never expresses I beseech the Reader to consider this and mark to what an impossible taske Protestants are engaged Yet this is not all It will still remayne doubtfull whether that Text which did say that all things are evidently contayned in Scripture be vnderstood vniversally of all things necessary to be believed or only of things necessary to be believed and written which if you wil needs haue to be all one or of the same extent you begg the Question in supposing that all things necessary to be believed are necessarily to be written in the Holy Scripture 10. These reflections being premised about the Meaning of the words Necessary and Evident I belieue any man who as I sayd shall thinke well before he speake and then speak as he thinks will hold it a very impossible thing to proue evidently out of Scripture all things necessary for the Church as one Mysticall Body For every Degree and for every particular Member therof according to the first Meaning of Evidence and other prescriptions which I haue declared Let vs therfor looke backe a litle vpon those three different sorts of Persons 11. First for Government and Governours of the Church if we abstract from the Authority Practise Tradition and interpretation of Gods Church I wonder who will goe about to proue with certainty out of evident Scripture what Episcopus must signify in Scripture a Bishop Superintendent or Overseer or any who hath a charge or superiority according to the fashion of Protestants who loue to take words according to Grammaticall derivation not according to the Ecclesiasticall Ancient vse of them Even Protestants grant that the words Presbyter and Episcopus are in Scripture taken for the same and Dr Jer Taylor in his Defence of Episcopacy § 23. Pag 128. saith expressly The first thing done in Christendome vpon the death of the Apostles in this matter of Episcopacy is the distinguishing of Names which before were common If they will translate Presbyter to signify an Elder what Certainty can they receyve from that word whether it ought to be taken for elder in Age or greater in Dignity And it is no better than ridiculous that Protestants should first deny vnwritten Traditions and Authority of the Church for interpreting Scriptures and deciding Controversyes in Faith and then take great paynes to proue out of evident Scripture alone that Bishops are de Jure Divino and the same I say of any other particular Forme of Ecclesiasticall Government and of the Quality and Extent of Authority in any such Forme whether they can inflict Ecclesiasticall Censures and of what kind concerning which and other such Poynts necessary to be knowne in the Church Protestants in vayne and without end will be sighting for an impossibility till they acknowledge some other Rule or judge of Controversyes than Scripture alone 12. Besides how will they learne out of Scripture alone the Forme of Ordination of Priestes and other Orders the Matter and Forme of other Sacraments which some in the Church are to administer by Office and others to receyue of which I shall speake more particularly hereafter with diverse other such Poynts necessary for the Church in generall 13. Secondly For diverse Degrees or States in the Church no man can chuse but see how hard it is to learne evidently out of Scripture alone what in particular belongs to every one both for Belief and Practise 14. Thirdly For every particular Person How can a Protestant proue evidently out of Scripture the Nature of Faith since one Sect of them denyes Christian Faith to be infallibly true against the rest of their fellowes and an other affirmes that justifying Faith is that wherby one firmly believes that he is just which kind of Faith others deny or the necessary Extent of their Faith seing Chilling holds that there cannot be given a Catalogue of Points necessary to be believed explicitly by all and therfor every one must either remayne vncertaine whether he believe all that is absolutely necessary or else be obliged vnder damnation to know explicitly all cleare passages of Scripture which are innumerable least otherwise he put himself in danger of wanting what is indispensably necessary to salvation which is a burthen no lesse vnreasonable than intolerable even to men not vnlearned and much more to vulgar Persons 15. Neither is there less dissiculty concerning Pennance or true Repentance than Faith since Protestants do not agree in what Repentance consist and Chilling hath a conceypt different from the rest that true Repentance requires the effectuall mortification of the Habits of all vices which being a worke of difficulty and tyme cannot be performed in an instant as he writes Pag. 392. N. 8. and therfor even that most perfect kind of sorrow which Divines call Contrition and is conceyved against sin for the loue of God will not serue at the howre of ones death because saith he Repentance is a work of difficulty and tyme. 16. Morover it is impossible for Protestants to proue evidently out of Scripture that the Sacraments of Baptisme and Pennance are not necessary for salvation For where fynd they any such Text If they say we must hold them not necessary because we find no such necessity evidently exprest in Scripture they do but begg the Question and suppose that all things necessary are contayned in Scripture besides that we haue Scripture for both Nisi quis renatu◠fuerit c vntess one shall be borne againe c Ioan 3.5 And whose sinnes you retayne they are retayned Ioan. 20.23 and it is impossible for any man to shew evidently out of Scripture that those Texts are not de facto vnderstood as we vnderstand them since it is most evident that the words are capable of such a sense and consequently we cannot be certaine but that such is their meaning vnless they can bring some evident Text to the contrary especially since that even divers chief learned Protestants teach the necessity of Baptisme for children of the Faithfull as I shew herafter And certainly if Scripture were evident against this Doctrine of Catholiques so many learned Protestants could not but haue seene it 17. The same I say of the Sacrament of Pennance which divers learned Protestants hold to be so necessary as some say that It is a wicked thing to take away private Absolution And that They who contemne it do not vnderstand what is Remission of sinnes or the power of the keyes And that it is an Errour to affirme that Confession made before God doth suffice And that Private Confession being taken away Christ gave the keyes in vaine vide Triple Cord Chap. 24. Pag. 613. And vitae Lutheri Autore Gasparo Vienbergio Lippiensi Cap. 30. it is sayd Osiander primus ex ministris Norinbergae
evident he might perhaps haue fayled in some necessary poynt if the text had proved to be evident and yet vnknown to him for want of such examination Neither can it be answered that if a text be evident it will appeare to be such For a thing vpon due examination and study may appeare evident or obscure which at first sight did not seeme to be such And for this same reason every one must learne to reade the bible or at least procure that every text therof be read to him that so he may be sure to know all evident and consequently all necessary texts of scripture it being cleare that he cannot haue sufficient assurance that he knowes every particular text only by hearing sermons or ordinary casvall discourses or the like And this care every one shall be obliged to vse even for those books of scripture which are receyved by some Protestants and rejected by others least if indeed they be Canonicall and he remayne ignorant of any one poynt evidently contayned in them he put himself in danger of wanting the knowledg of some thing necessary to be believed You teach Pag 23. N. 27. that to make a catalogue of fundamentall points had been to no purpose there being as matters now stand as great necessity of believing those truths of scripture which are not fundamentall as thâ—se that are But it is necessary for every one learned or vnlearned to know explicitly all fundamentall truths Therfor it is necessary for every one to know explicitly all truths though not fundamentall Now who sees not that these are ridiculous vnreasonable and intolerable precepts and burthens imposed vpon mens consciences without any ground except an obstinate resolution to defend your opinion that all things necessary are evident in scripture And yet I do not perceiue how Protestants can avoyd these sequeles if they will stand to those principles For whosoeuer is obliged to attaine an End is obliged to vse that meanes which is necessary for that End Your self Pag 194. N. 4. hold it for an absurdity that it should be a damnable sin in any learned man and I may say much more in any vnlearned person actually to disbelieue any one particular Historicall verity contayned in Scripture or to belieue the contradiction of it though be know it not to be there conâ—â—â—ed Now I say according to this your Doctrine every one must know every truth in scripture and not only not contradict it but he must explicitly know it least otherwise he may chance to omitt the belief of some poynt necessary to be expressiy believed Which is a greater absurdity than only to say every one is obliged not to contradict any truth contayned in scripture though he know it not to be there contayned And as for our present purpose you clearly suppose that every man though he be learned is not obliged to know every truth contayned in Scripture and therfor your Doctrine which necessarily infers this obligation must be absurd and contradictory to yourself 27. Fourthly in Holy scripture two things are to be considered The words and sense or meaning of them The words are cleare in scripture as in other bookes to such as vnderstand the language But for the sense it may be affirmed with much truth that abstracting from extrinsecall helpe or autority euen in matters of greatest moment proper to Christian religion it is hard to fynd any one poynt so cleare of it self as to convince that it must needs be vnderstood in this or thar determinate sense For though the words may seeme clearly to signify such a thing in objects proportionate to our naturall reason yet the hardness and height of Christian belief is apt to withdraw our vnderstanding from yeilding a firme assent to points which truly are aboue and in shew seeme to be against reason For this I will alledg your selfe who Pag 215. N. 46. speake thus They which doe captivate their vnderstandings to the belief of those things which to their vnderstanding seeme irreconsiable Contradictions may as well believe reall contraditions Since then no man can belieue reall contradictions appearing such it followes according to your owne assertion that none can belieue those poynts which to his vnderstanding seeme contradictions and then he will be seeking some other by-sense of such words as taken in the obvious common signification may seeme in his way of vnderstanding to imply contradiction Which yet appeares more clearly out of other words of yours Pag 216.217 N. 46. where having sett downe divers contradictions as you vntruly apprehend in our catholique doctrine concerning the B. Sacrament of the Eucharist you conclude that if Char Maintayned cannot compose their repugnance and that after an intelligible manner then we must giue him leaue to belieue that either we do not belieue Transubstantiation or else that it is no contradiction that men should subjugate their vnderstandings to the belief of contradictions Which words declare how willing a mans vnderstanding or reason is to be at peace with it self and to belieue nothing wherin it cannot Compose all repugnance and that after an intelligible manner Seing then all Christians must belieue the words of scripture to be true and yet find difficulty in composing all repugnance to reason after an intelligible manner they are easily drawne to entertayne some interpretation agreeable to their vnderstanding though contrary to the signifitation which the words of themselves do clearly import and perhaps was intended by the Holy Ghost 28. From this fountaine arise so many and so different and contrary heresies concerning the chiefest articles of Christian Faith the difficulty of the objects and disproportion to our naturall reason first diverting and then averting our vnderstanding from that which it sees not cleared after an intelligible manner and the loss of the first evidence and vsuall signification of the words bringing men to a loss in the pursuite of the true sense of them For this cause the particular Grace of the Holy Ghost is necessary to belieue as we ought insomuch as Fulk against Rhem Testam in 2 Petr 3. Pag 821. saith As concerning the Argument and matter of the Scripture we confess that for the most and chiefest matters it is not only hard but impossible to be vnderstood of the naturall man Besides which difficulty arising from the Objects or Mysteryes in themselves there is another proceeding from the subject or Believer when one hath already taken a Point for true and for that cause will be willing to seeke and glad to fynd some sense of Scripture agreeable to his foreconceyved opinion though not without violence to the letter or words 29. And yet to these dissicultyes flowing from the Object and Sabject we may add another ex Adjunctis when one place of Scripture seeming cleare enough of it self growes to be hard by being compared with the obvious sense of that other Text as we haue heard out of Chilling Pag 41. N. 13. that Scripture may with so great
probability be alledged on both sides that men of vpright harts may some goe one way and some another 30. What words more cleare than those of our B Saviour Matth 26. V. 26. This is my Body Insomuch as Luther in his Booke Defensio verborum Coenae saies against the Sacramentaryes who deny the Reall presence This Heresy doth not impugne doubtfull opinyons and doubtfull Testimonyes of Scripture but plaine and express sentences of Scripture yet many Protestants deny this Mystery of the Reall presence vpon pretence that other Texts of Scripture are contrary to it and in particular that in S. Iohn's Gospell Cap 6. V. 63. It is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing Which is a strange kind of interpreting words most cleare by a Text very obscure But God in his holy Providence permits these men to fall vpon such impertinences for their owne confutation as happens in this occasion For as they deny the Reall presence of our Saviours Body in the Eucharist so they deny or elude the reall Presence or Descent of his soule into Hell interpreting those words of the Acts 2.27 Thou wilt not leave my soule in Hell Non relenques cadaver meum in sepulchro Thou wilt not leaue my dead Body in the sepulcher So Beza vpon that place And Vorstius in Antibellarm Pag 42. Nihil vetat per Animam synecdochicè intelligere ipsum corpus quidem jam mortuum We may well by a synecdoche vnderstand by the soule the body even the dead body Serranus contra Hayum sayth that per animam Act 2. V. 27. non intelligitur anima marke soule not the soule sed mortuus homo siue cadaver but a dead man or a dead body And which is strange he assirmes that this interpretation is cleare For the present I will not examine this strange interpretation of an Article of our Creed Descendit ad inferos He descended vnto Hell Of which Potter Pag 240. sayth The words are so plame they beare their meaning before them nor will I obserue even by this example how far Scripture is from being evident to these men who faine such glosses vpon words so cleare and yet say that their interpretation is cleare But I will only say if the soule which is a spirit may signify flesh and flesh be taken for the soule or spirit those words Spiritus est qui vivificat caro non prodest quicquam It is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh prositeth nothing may be inverted and taken thus against themselves caro est quae vivificat spiritus non prodest quicquam It is the flesh which quickeneth the spirit profiteth nothing For if the soule may signify the body why may not the body signify the soule by the same new kind or Figure In the meane tyme these men should consider that their owne Divines assirme S. Iohn in that sixth Chapter not to speak of the Sacrament and it is a strange kind of proofe to argue out of Scripture for that of which that Scripture is confessed even by him who so argues not to speak But because many examples or instances may be alledged to proue the difficulty of Scripture even in the most Principall and Fundamentall Articles of our Faith we will touch some in the next Reason for to speak of all would be endless 31. Fiftly The same is demonstrated by these particulars What can be more cleare to proue the Consubstantiality of the son of God with his Eternall Father than Ego Pater vnum sumus Ioan 10. V. 13. I and the Father are one And yet the old and new Arians with Chilling and other Socinians deny it pretending falsly that it is against Reason and contrary to other Text of Scripture What can be more expressly delivered if we respect the bare word than that there is one God Creatour of Heaven and Earth And yet for the signification of the words to omit old Heretiques as the Simoniani Menandriani Basilidiani Valentinistae Marcionistae Manichaei and the whole rabble of the Gnostici who taught that there is not one God Omnipotent Creatour of Heaven and Earth haue we not in our dayes Socinians who indeed destroy the true God by making him a Subject of Accidents and depriving him of his Immensity Omniscience of futura (a) Crellius Lib 1. de vera Religione Cap 24. Contingentia or the future Actions which are to proceed from Freewill although nothing be more cleare in Scripture than that God is every where filling Heaven and Earth and that one distinction of the true God from false ones is that he can infallibly foretell things to come and that he inspired Prophets to prophecy with absolute certainty things remote for Tyme and Place which being denyed the books of the Prophets must be rent from the Bible as deluding men and worse than Apocriphall Tertullian Lib 2. cont Marcion Cap 5. ait Deum quot facit Prophetas tot habere testes suae praescientiae God hath as many witnesses of his Prescience as are the Prophets whom he makes Doth not Calvin depriue God of Mercy and Justice in teaching that he predestinates men to eternall damnation and punishes them for sins to which they were necessitated by the same God What can be more cleare in our Creed and scripture than that Christ was conceyved of the Holy Ghost borne of the Virgin Mary suffered dyed rose agayne and ascended into Heaven if we looke vpon the words And yet for the sense which is the life and soule of scripture there are most different and contrary doctrines concerning these Poynts I let pass those Heretiques who taught that Christ suffered not really but only in appearance or shew And why might not they as well say that the words he was crucifyed and dyed are not to be taken litterally as our Sacramentaryes teach the words This is my body are to be vnderstood figuratively But these I let pass and only reflect that for the thing signifyed by those words according to our moderne Sectaryes there is neither certainty who he is that was borne suffered dyed rose agayne c nor of the End for which he was borne suffered and dyed nor of the Effect and Fruite of his life and Death For Socinians deny that he who was borne suffered c was true God and Man or that the End for which he suffered was to redeeme vs by satisfying and paying the ransome of our sins but only by way of instructing or giving vs exāple And Calvinists teache that the Effect or Fruite of our Saviours Actions and sufferings is not any true remission or washing away our sins but only a not imputing them their guilt and deformity still remaining as Calvin in 2. Corinth 5. V. 21. declares Quomodo justi coram Deo sumus Qualiter scilicet Christus fuit peccator How are we just befor God in such manner as Christ was a sinner O injury to men as if none were otherwise just than Christ was a sinner of whom
earth Hee I say who with Arians and other old and moderne condemned Heretiques denyes Christ to be the sonne of God and consubstantiall to his Father as also his Merit and satisfaction for mankind wherby he is the Saviour of the world The like I say of his resurrection and that all men shall arise againe at the last day seing Socinians teach as I sayd aboue that we shall have bodyes in Heaven in nature substaÌ„ce and essence different from our bodyes on earth Against whom these words of S. Iohn Chrisostome Hom 65. in Ioannem post medium are very effectuall as they were against some others who sayd Corpora non resurgent our bodyes shall not rise againe Nonne audiunt Paulum c Do they not heare S. Paule saying For this corruptible must do on incorruption 1. Cor 15.53 Neither can he meane the soule seing it is not corrupted and Resurrection must belong to that which is dead which was the body only And Serm de Ascensione Domini To 3. Let vs consider who he is 〈◊〉 whom it was sayd sit on my right hand what nature that is to whom God sayd be partaker of my seate It is that nature which heard thou art earth and shald returne to â—arth And Learne who ascended and what nature was elevated For I willingly stay in this subject that by consideration of mankind we may with all admiration learne the divine clemency which hath bestowed so great honour and glory on our nature which this day is exalted above all things This day Angels behold our nature shining with immortall glory in the divine Throne And S. Austine serm 3. de Ascensione saith to the same purpose an earthly body is seated aboue the highest Heaven bones ere while shut vp in a narrow grave are placed in the company of Angels a mortall nature is placed in the bosome of immortality And in the same place he sayth If our saviour did not rise againe in our body he gave nothing to our condition by rising againe Whosoever sayes this doth not vnderstand the reason of the flesh which he assumed but confounds the order and evacuates the profit therof I acnowledge to be myne that which fell that that may be myne which rose I acknowledg that to be myne which lay in the grave that that may be myne which ascended into Heauen From this Secinian Heresy it also followes that indeed they deny his true Ascension since they give him and vs not his and our nature but another essentially different But indeed is the Resurrection of the dead so cleare in scripture for the sense without any help of Gods Church How then doth Dr. Potter Pag. 122. say in behalf of Hookers and M. Mortons opinion A learned man was anciently made a Bishop of the Catholique Church though he did professedly doubt of the last Resurrection of our Bodyes Was he a learned man Then surely he vnderstood the Grammaticall signification of the words and yet he erred in the sense as also many others did who denyed Resurrection as Basilidiani Saturniani Carpocratiani Valentiniani Severiani Hieracitae and others which shewes the necessity of a living judg beside the letter or bare word of scripture Which appeares also by the other example which you alledg as cleare That They which belieue and repent shal be saved That they which do not belieue or repent shal be damned For how is this cleare for the sense of the words if it be not cleare what that Faith and Repentance is without which none can be saved And yet you teach a Faith and a repentance wholy different from that which hitherto both Catholikes and ProtestaÌ„ts haue believed and taught as also Calvinists tell vs of a Faith justifying after a new fashion different both from Catholikes and from Socinians and yet what is more necessary to salvation than true Faith and repentance 34. Neither are you more fortunate in your example that it is clearly against Scripture that the keeping of the Mosaicall Law is necessary to salvation Yea this instance makes against your self and proves the necessity of a living judg For the first determination concerning that poynt was made in the Councell of the Apostles Act. 15. V. 28. and the Scripture only relates what their definition was and so this proves only that the voyce of the Church or Councels may be clear both for the words and sense Or that it may be declared by the Church of succeding ages if it grow in tyme to be obscure which happens in this very Councell For though no doubt but Christians of that tyme vnderstood fully the meaning of the Councell by the declaration of the Apostles yet the contents therof were afterward to be declared to all posterity by the Church how they were to be vnderstood and practised The Councell sayd Act. 15. V. 28. 29. It hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to vs to lay no further burden vpon you than these necessary things that you abstayne from the things immolated to Idols and bloud and that which is strangled Doth not this rather seeme contrary than clearly in favour of your affirmation that it is cleare in Scripture that the Mosaicall Law is not necessary For one part and practise and Law obliging the Iewes was to abstaine from bloud and that which is strangled though I grant it was also commanded before but not to last always as the practise of Christs Church declareth and yet in the councell it is sayd to be necessary And for the other point that you abstaine from the things immolated to Idols S. Paule teaches that abstracting from an erroneous conscience it is not necessary to abstayne from them and yet in that Councell it is injoyned as a thing necessary How then is this poynt so cleare if we looke on scripture alone without reference to any declaration or practise of Gods church 35. Besides for Circumcision which as the Apostle sayth brings with it an obligation to obserue the whole Mosaicall Law which observation is you say clearly not necessary although if we take some words or text of Scripture alone without any further reflection or consideration it may seeme cleare that it is not only not necessary but hurtfull S. Paule saying Gal. 5.2 If you be circumcised Christ shall profit you nothing yet if we also call to mynd the fact of the same Apostle Act 16. V. 3 saying taking him he circumcided him Timothy that other text If you be circumcised Christ will profit you nothing which seemed cleare and vniversall will seeme difficult and to be vnderstood with some explication or restraint For who will imagine that S. Paule would be author of that wherby Timothy should be deprived of all the good he could expect from the Sauiour of the world And the difficulty wil be increased if we add that S. Paule caused Timothy to be circumcised propter Iudaeos c. For the Iewes who were in those places for they knew all of them that his father was
a Gentile wherby one would apprehend that S. Paule judged it necessary at least per accidens because all knew that his father was a gentil that Timothy should be circumcised and yet contrarily Gal. 2. N. 3. it is sayd but neither Titus wheras he was a Gentil was compelled to be circumcised It is therfor very cleare that this Poynt which you alledg as clearly expressed in Scripture ought rather to be numbred amongst difficult and obscure places and directly against your inference that there is no need of an infallible guide shewes the necessity of such a guide because this determination about the Mosaicall Law was a Definition of a Counsell ād must be declared by the practise of Gods church as being concerning some things not to be alwayes observed but intended to be ordered by the sayd Church without whose authority how should we know when and in what manner the keeping of the Mosaicall Law became both vnnecessary and damnable mortua and mortifera dead and deadly since we see some part therof observed by the Apostles after our Sauiours ascension and sending the Holy Ghost 36. But at least though you haue erred in the first part of your example concerning the evidence of Scripture that the keeping of the Mosaicall Law is not necessary to salvation yet you haue vndoubtedly proved your purpose in the other part That good works are necessary to salvation 37. To this I answer It is strang you should hold this point of the necessity of good works to salvation to be so evident in Scripture that every one who believes the Scripture hath sufficient meanes to discover and condemne the contrary heresie seing you know the common Tenet of Protestants that it is impossible to keep the commandements and the doctrine of many of them that all our actions are sinnes Can the breach of the commandements be a good worke Or can sinfull works be necessary to salvation That is can it be necessary to doe that which is necessary for vs not to doe as every one is obliged not to sinne How then can you say the Scripture is cleare in this poynt since so many of your chiefest brethren must mayntayne the contrary and divers of them do in express termes deny good works to be necessary yea and call it a Papisticall errour yea worse than is the Papists Doctrine as is exactly sett downe in Brierly Tract 2. Cap. 2. Sect. 10. subdivis 4. And see in the same Author Tract 3. Sect. 7. N. 7. The necessity of good works contradicted for new Papistry as pernicious as the old by Illyricus in Praefat. ad Rom. and many others And all this they pretend to doe vpon the warrant of evident scripture 37. And heer I am to obserue that Pag 157. N. 50. you having alledged some poynts as clearly contayned in scripture and in particular concerning Faith Repentance and Resurrection of the body which we haue demonstrated not to be clear without assistance from Gods Church and to be controverted even amongst Protestants add these remarkable words These we conceyue both true because the Scripture sayes so and Truths Fundamentall because they are necessary parts of the Gospell wherof our Sauiour sayes Qui non crediderit damnabitur Therfor say I scripture alone is not cleare even in Fundamentall points which directly overthrowes the whole Foundation of Protestants religion And because heer you name expressly the Resurrection of the Body and not only that all men shall rise againe at the last day as you spoake Pag. 101. N. 127. I would gladly know how it is a Resurrection of the Body which never rises againe but another celestiall body is created to succeed it And what reckoning do you make of the 39. Articles of the English Church since Art 4. it is sayd Christ did truly rise rgaine from death and tooke againe his body with flesh bones and all things appertaining to the perfection of mans nature wher with he ascended into Heaven and there sitteth vntill he returne to judg all men at the last day 38. You see then that he hath produced Fundamentall poynts as cleare in scripture which are proved not to be so Of poynts not Foundamentall he chuseth in the same place one example so pregnant and certaine in his conceypt that he hopes we will grant it to be such namely that Abraham begat Isaac But this text is not so cleare as he supposes For how will he be sure if we take those words alone that Abraham was Isaacs Father and not grandfather or yet higher We reade in S. Matthew 1.8 Ioram begat Ozias three Kings being left out For Ioram immediatly begat Ochozias Ochozias begat Ioas Ioas begat Amazias Amazias begat Azarias or Ozias for he had two names as is manifest 1. Paral. 3.11 and 12. and 2. Paral. 22.9 seqq he therfor left out three to wit Ochosias Ioas and Amazias as also Matth. 1.12 frequently in the Latin copy one generation is left out for with S. Epiphanius and others it is thus to be supplyed and read Josias begat Jeconias and his brethren and Jeconias begat Jechonias in the transmigration of Babilon For now we haue only Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren in the transmigration of Babylon On the contrary where Genes 11. V. 12. it is sayd Arphaxad begat Sale as the Hebrew and Caldaean text haue both in this place and also 1. Paral. 1.18 24. the Septuaginta both heer and there put Cainan between For they saye Arphaxad begat Cainan and Cainan begat Sale S. Luke rollowes the Septuagint Chap. 36. saying Who was of Sale who was of Cainan who was of Arphaxad Besides all this what will he vnderstand by genuit he begat or fuit Filius he was the Son which may haue divers significations as Luc. 3.38 Who was of Henos who was of Seth who was of Adam who was of God Where we see Filius a son must be taken in a different sense as it is referred to Henos Seth and Adam and as it is referred to God vvhose naturall son Adam vvas not But I may seeme to haue sayd too much of such a matter as this vnless it did shevv clearly the difficulty of scripture even in texts vvhich scarcely seeme capable of difficulty 39. Sixtly vvhatsoever effect Protestants yield to Sacraments at least it is necessary they be maintayned and not quite abolished and taken from the true Church of vvhich Protestants teach the right administration of Sacraments to be an Essentiall Note Yea seing there vvant not learned Protestants vvho hold Baptisme to be necessary to salvation if the scripture be not cleare in vvhat concernes this Sacrament it is not cleare in a necessary poynt as I sayd Novv the very vvord Sacrament taken in this sense according to Protestants is not found in scripture yea Socinians teach that it is an abuse of the vvord Sacrament to apply it to holy rites (a) Volkelius Lib. 4 Cap. 22. And in the definition therof Protestants cannot agree
and to helpe once self with interpreters c. Is this to make the scripture easy and evident Or is it not to make it evidently true that it is evident few can possibly obserue those Rules without which these men confess that scripture cannot be vnderstood 44. And now to proue that I also spoake truth in saying it is evident that these Ruls though they were observed are not sufficient to make scripture cleare and evident it were abundantly sufficient to reflect on the great and irreconciliable disagreements amongst Protestants themselves which argues that either scripture is not evident or that they are extreamly blind or malitious or dissemble and speaâ—â— against the belief of their owne hart Doth not Chill say Preface N. 30. that there is no more certaine signe that a poynt is not evident than that honest and vnderstanding and indifferent men and such as giue themselues liberty of judgment after a mature consideration of the matter differ about it But yet I will proue it out of a Protestant who in generall brings vnaswerable arguments against the pretented evidence of scripture and proves in particular that the Meanes of Rules assigned by Protestants to vnderstand the scripture are not sufficient to convince or make evident the the sense therof I meane Dr. Jeremy Taylor in a Discourse of the liberty of Prophecying printed An 1647. He sect 3. endeavours to proue in generall the difficulty and vncertainty of arguments from scripture First by consideration of scripture it self in regard of different copies translations c. By the many senses of scripture when the Grammaticall sense iâ— found out for there is in very many scriptures a deuble sense a litterall and a spirituall and both these senses are subdivided For the litterall sense is either naturall or Figuratiue and the spirituall is somtymes Allegoricall somtymes Anagogicall nay somtymes there are divers litterall senses in the same sentence This I say first he proves in generall and then Sect 4. directly to my purpose he proves that the meanes which are wont to be assigned for interpreting scripture are but vncertaine Thus he discourses First somtyme the sense is drawne forth by the context and connexion of parts It is well when it can be so But when there is two or three antecedents and subjects spoken of what man or what Rule shall asâ—ertaine me that I make my reference true by drawing the relation to such an antecedent to which I haue a mynd to apply it another hath not c Secondly An other great pretense is the conference of places which he sayes is of so indefinite capacity that if there be ambiguity of words variety of sense alteration of circumstances or difference of style amongst Divine Writers then there is nothing which may be more abused by wilfull people or may more easily deceive the vnwary or that may amuse the most intelligent Observer This he proves by some examples and sayes that it is a fallacy a posse ad esse affirmativè from a possibility of being to an affirmatiue heing that is because a word is somtymes vsed in such a sense therfor it must alwayes be taken in that sense and concludes that this is the great way of answering all the Arguments that can be brought against any thing that any man hath a mynd to defend and any man that reades any controversyes of any side shall fynd as many instances of this vanity almost as he fynds Arguments from Scripture This fault was of old noted by S. Austin De Doctrina Christiana Lib. 3. for then they had got this trick and he is angry at it Neque enim putare debemus esse praescriptum vt quod in aliquo loco res aliqua per similitudinem significaverit hoc etiam semper significare credamus Thus the Doctor 45. And I say in one word This conferring of divers places can produce no certainty vnless you can first giue a certaine and evident Rule why and when this word is to be explicated by that rather than that by this the first by the second rather than the second by the first But who will dreame that any such certaine Rule can be given 46. Thirdly Tailor procedes Oftentymes Scriptures are pretended to be expounded by a proportion and Analogy of reason This he impugnes at large and saith it is with reason as with mens tastes When a man doth speake reason it is but reason he should be heard but though he may have the good fortune or the great abilityes to doe it yet he hath not a certainty no regular infallible assistance no inspiration of Arguments and deductions and if he had yet because it must be reason that must judge of reason vnless other mens vnderstandings were of the same ayre the same constitution and ability they cannot be prescribed vnto by an other mans reason especially because such reasonings as vsually are in explication of particular places of Scripture depend vpon minute circumstances and particularityes in which it is so easy to be deceyved and so hard to speake reason regularly and alwayes that it is the greater wonder if we be not deceyved I may say that Faith being aboue Reason Reason must submit to Faith and not Faith be subject to Reason For as S. Bernard excellently saies Ep 190. What is more against Reason than that one should striue to go beyond Reason by force of Reason 47. Fourthly Others pretend to expound Scripture by the analogy of Faith This he sayth is but a chimera a thing in nubibus which varyes like the right hand and left hand of a pillar For if by the analogy of Faith be vnderstood the Rule of Faith that is the Creed were it not a fine devise to go to expound all the Scripture by the Creed there being in it so many thousand places which haue no more relation to any Article in Creed than they haue to Tityre tu patulae But if you extend the analogy of Faith further than that which is proper to the rule or Symbol of Faith then every man expounds Scripture according to the analogy of Faith but what His own Faith which Faith if it be questioned I am no more bound to expound according to the analogy of another mans Faith then he is to expound according to the analogy of myne And this is it that is complained on of all sides â—â—at over-value their owne opinions Scripture seemes so clearly to speake what they beheue that they wonder all the world does not see as cleare as they do c In this he speaks what we find by daily experience and the Reason is because evident or obscure probable or improbable being but extrinsecall Denominations in respect of the Objects which are in themselves either so or not so Est or Non taken from the Acts of our vnderstanding which haue great dependance on severall complexions affections education and other prejudices no wonder if one man judg that to be true and evident which another
that it is inspired and that it is prositable Therfor as every part of Scripture is inspired so is it also profitable And what an incongruous change of sense were it of the same word All Scripture that is every part of Scripture is inspired and all Scripture that is only the whole body of Scripture is profitable How then will they be able to proue much less to proue evidently that the words All Scripture must be certainly taken in this sense And yet till they doe this they haue done nothing for their purpose 69. Fourthly We must also consider to whom S. Paul avoucheth Scripture to be even profitable Which is not to every vnlearned person but that the man of God may be perfect wherby is to be vnderstood a Doctour and Bishop as Corn a Lapide affirmeth vpon this place and In 1. Timoth Cap 6. V. 11. where S. Timothy is called Homo Dei the man of God proves it out of S. Chrisost and Theodoret that men eminently holy are called men of God as Prophets are so called 4. Reg 1.11 12. Elias is called the man of God and Samuel 1. Reg 9. The like we see Judic 12.6 and 3. Reg 13.1 It is also a title of Kings Princes and Prelates so Moyses Deut 13.1 is called Homo Dei man of God and David 2. Paral 8.14 Now Timothy was a Doctour Bishop and Prince of the Church of Ephesus This is also the interpretation of Beza To those then who are supposed to be already well instructed by other teachers the Scripture is very profitable that is not Scripture alone but joyned with tradition and interpretation of Gods Church A paralel to this of S. Paul All scripture inspired of God is the Text of S. Peter Ep 2. C. 1. 20.21 Vnderstanding this first that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation For not of mans will was prophecy brought at any tyme but the holy men of God spake inspired with the Holy Ghost If Heretiques did confider and practise this primum first that all prophecy is not made by private interpretation For not by mans will c they would not be Heretiques but would see to whom scripture is profitable not to those who will admitt no Guide nor interpretation but their own witt and will to whom it becomes by their only fault not profitable but pernicious as experience tells vs. So far is it from being necessary or sufficient 70. Thus their Chiefest proofes out of scripture being clearly confuted it remaynes demonstrated that they haue no solid proofe that Scripture alone contaynes all things necessary to Salvation But yet let vs alledg some more Arguments to disproue their Tenet 71. Eleaventhly Seing Protestants cannot proue out of scripture that scripture is evident for all necessary poynts this alone is sufficient to overthrow their Assertion and Religion But for the difficulty and obscurity of scripture we haue alledged evident scripture even in a poynt most necessary concerning the Messias in the example of the Eunuch and the Apostles themselves which difficulty is further most clearly testifyed by S. Peter who expressly writes thus 2. Pet 3.15.16 As also our most deare brother Paul according to the wisdome given him hath written to you As also in all Epistles speaking in them of these things in the which are certayne things hard to be vnderstood which the vnlearned and vnstable depraue as also the rest of the scriptures to their owne perditiō In which words I obserue First that as by reason of the hardness of some things in S. Paules Epistles mē did erre so they did erre also in the rest of the scriptures for the same reasō which shewes that other scriptures contayne things hard to be vnderstood Secondly That those mē did erre in necessary poynts seing their errours were cause of their destruction Therfor the scripture is hard and obscure in necessary matters For an errour cannot be damnable vnless the contrary truth be necessary The translatour of the English bible Ann 1600. Preface avoucheth that it is A very hard thing to vnderstand the holy scriptures and that divers errours sects and heresies grow daily for lacke of true knowledg therof Mark that he speaks of matters of moment in which to erre is to fall into Heresy 72. Twelfthly I take an Argument from these your owne words Pag. 54. N. 4. If men did really and sincerly submitt their judgments to Scripture and that only and would require no more of any man but to do so it were impossible but that all Controversies thouching things necessary and very profitable should be ended and if others were continued or increased it were no matter In which words you seeme te extend the sole sufficiency and evidence of scripture to things very profitable For if these be not evidently contayned in scripture how can you say it were impossible but that all controversies touching them should be ended since obscurity or want of evidence is that which produces all Controversyes Besides you say that if Controversyes in things not necessary or not very profitable were continued or increased it were no matter Therfor a contrario sensu it imports that Controversyes about things very profitable be ended But this saying of yours demonstrates how little credit you deserue in affirming all things necessary to be evidently contayned in scripture alone since you teach the same of things very profitable which are so far from being all contayned evidently in scripture that for a convincing Reason for the contrary we need no other proofe then manifest Experience and contentions of Protestants among themselves concerning many poynts which they expressly declare to be of great momēt as for example the Canon of scripture it self and How it is knowē to be the word of God the infallibility of Christiā Faith the Eucharist Predestination Free-will vniversall Grace Repentāce Definition necessity effect of Sacraments Government of the Church and other poynts and yet in Charity whose essentiall Character is to judg and hope the best as you say Pag. 34. N 6. I suppose you will not judg but that all those your brethren at least divers of them do really and sincerely submitt their judgments to scripture and seing it is manifest that they do not agree I see no remedy but that you must confess scripture alone not to be evidēt nor sufficient in all things very profitable If then even according to your owne words aboue recited it import that there be some evidēt ād certaine meanes to end Controversies touching things very profitable and that this cannot be done by scripture alone it must require a living Guide Besides what evident text of scripture can you produce to proue that it alone is evident in all things very profitable And your Reader wil be glad to know what you meane by things very profitable and whether you intend to distinguish them from things profitable and whether your meaning be that scripture alone is cleare for things very profitable but
protestāts that they haue no certaine meanes to judg whē scripture is evidēt ād consequētly it alone is not sufficiēt to judg evidētly of all poynts necessary to be believed Nay seing they haue no evident Ground to know that scripture is the word of God they cannot be certaine of any one text of scripture though we did suppose that the sense therof were very cleare 89. 16. It is a maine ground with Heretikes that a living judg was necessary till the whole canon of scripture was perfited which being done they say the scripture alone is sufficient But even from this principle of theirs I argue thus seeing they belieue nothing which cannot be proved out of scripture they are obliged to proue out of scripture this very Ground that the necessity of a living judg did expire as soone as scripture was written This is impossible for them to do because no such text is to be found in the whole bible Therfor they cannot hold it even according to their owne principles See what I haue sayd in my nynth reason N. 59 to proue that according to their grounds on text will serue their turne for our presēt purpose vnless it be the last book or text because they teach that scripture alone was not sufficient till the whole Canon was perfited and yet who will vndertake that such a last booke or text hath evidently this Proposition After the Canon of scripture was perfited the necessity of a living judg did cease To say nothing that it is not certaine what part of Holy scripture was written last as also that Protestants do not agree whether some of those scriptures which were the last or among the last be Canonical or no as I sayd aboue 90. 17. I take an argument from the confession of Protestants themselves that the Ancient Fathers stand for vs against them and that therfor the Fathers erred Which could never haue happened to Persons so holy wise learned sincere laborious dispassionate and whom all Christians acknowledg to haue wrought miracles on earth and to be glorious Saints in heauen if the scriptures were so express and evident as our adversaryes pretend Or if they will needs haue scripture to be so cleare every man of Conscience and discretion will stand for the anciēt Fathers ād vs who are acknowledged to agree with them Now that the Fathers are confessed by Protestants to haue taught the same doctrines which we at this day maintayne is diligētly demonstrated by that judicious exact and Faithfull Author of the Protestants Apology for the Roman Church concerning divers poynts which the Reader to be assured of the truth and for the Eternall good of his soule may find in the Alphabeticall Table Verb. Fathers and then examine them vnpartially as the Reall Presence Transsubstantiation Reservation of the Sacrament Masse and Sacrifice Sacrifice according to the order of Melchisedech Propitiatory Sacrifice euen for the dead Purgatory Free-will the possibility of keeping the commandements justification and Merit of works invocation of Saints Translation of Saints Reliques and their worship Pilgrimage to holy places Grace conferd by Baptisme necessity of Baptisme Chrisme and Confirmation Confession of sinnes injoyned pennance or satisfaction Absolution the Fast of Lent other sett Fasting daves Fasting from certaine meates vnwritten Traditions Hallowing of Alters Churches Water Oyle Bread Candles c More Sacraments than two that Antichrist shal be but one man the great vertue of the signe of the Crosse the worshipping of it Lights in the Church in the day-tyme Images in the Church their Worship S. Peters Primacy ouer the Apostles the Popes Primacy aboue other Bishops Vowed Chastity monasteryes of vowed virgins their consecration their religious habit Mòks that priests might not marry that Bigamus may not be priest the inferiour orders of deacons subdeacons acolyts exorcists c In so much as in regard of these and many mo like premises many of the learned Protestants do deale plainly in making generall disclaime in the Fathers as may be seene in Brierley tract 1. Subdiv 14. where beside other Protestants he names Whitaker Iacobus Acontius Napper Fulk Downham Melancthon Peter Martyr Beza Caelivs Secundus Curio Sebastianus Francus c Besides it cannot be denyed but that learned Protestants do taxe the Fathers of divers errours as is notorious and may be particularly seene in Brierly ibid wherin although they manifestly wrong those Holy and Ancient Doctours yet these their Accusers ought to gather from thence that scripture is not evident since men indued with all ornaments and helps for attayning the true meaning therof were so much mistaken as our sectaryes pretend 91. The same is also clearly demonstrated by reflecting that very many of the most learned Protestāts agree with vs in many points against their Protestant brethren as Brierley Tract 3. Sect 7. lit M. exactly demonstrates For example the Reall presence of Christs body in the Sacrament that Sacraments do not only signify but also conferr grace that Christ after his corporall death did descend in soule into Hell that the Church must continue visible concerning Evangelicall Councells Viz. that a man may do more than he is commanded concerning the vniversality of Grace and that Christ dyed for all that men are not certaine of their election and that he who is in state of Grace may finally fall that in case of divorce vpon adultery the innocent party may not marry againe that to children of the Faithfull dying vnbaptized salvation is not promised Freewill That in regard of Christs Passion and promise our good works proceeding from Faith are meritorious Temporall punishment reserved by God in justice for sin remitted The impugning of the civill Magistrates headship though but of a particular Church Intercession of Angels Intercession of Saints invocation of Saints vowed chastity voluntary Poverty Chastity and Obedience prayer for the dead purgatory Limbus Patrum Images in the Church worship of Images Reverence and bowing at the name of Jesus the power of priests not only to pronounce but to giue remission of sinnes private confession of sins to a priest distinction of mortall and veniall sin in one and the same person the indifferency of communion vnder one or both kinds sacrifice of the New Testament according to the order of Mechisadech that first motions of our concupiscence without our concent therto are not sinnes that the commandements are not impossible Transubstantiation that the Sacraments of the old Testament were not in working and effect equall with ours The visible signe of imposition of hands in confirmation with the grace therby conferred The like visible signe and grace given in Orders yea expressly counted a Sacrament An indeleble character imprinted by certaine Sacraments The baptisme of women and lay persons in case of necessity The knowen intention of the church needfull to the administration of Sacraments Seaven Sacraments implicite Faith that Antichrist is yet to come the patronage and protection of certaine Angels over certaine countries and Kingdomes
it to be a perfect Rule he believes it to be a Rule 95. Besides this you deliver another doctrine which overthrowes the sufficiency of scripture taken alone Thus you write p. 144. N. 31. The Apostles doctrine was confirmed by Miracles therfor it was entirely true and in no part either false or vncertaine I say in no part of that which they delivered constantly as a certaine divine truth and which had the attestation of divine Miracles The falshood and danger of this doctrine I will purposely confute herafter For the present I say that it makes Scripture wholly vncertaine and vnfit to be a sufficient yea or any Rule of Faith although it were never so cleare and evident in all necessary points For if once we yield that the Apostles could err in poynts belonging to Religion we cannot belieue them with certainty at any other tyme or in any other article as I demonstrate in the next Chapter and the thing is manifest of it self All Divines and all men by the light of Reason require an vniversall Infallibility in that Authority for which they must belieue with divine Faith and if it could erre at one tyme it might erre at another for ought we could know or if it say one thing to day and the contrary to morrow what certainty can we haue to belieue rather the one than the other And indeed we can belieue neither of them with certainty Besides you seeme to require that every part of Christian doctrine be confirmed by miracles beforwe can be certaine of the truth therof which blastes the credit of all scripture For how do you know that the Apostles wrought miracles to proue immediatly and in particular that scripture is the word of God Or how can you belieue that miracles were wrought severally in confirmation of every rext of scripture And yet we belieue every such Text with an assent of divine Faith Nay wheras protestants alledg some texts to proue that scripture contaynes evidently all necessary points you must shewe that those very texts were confirmed by miracles if you will belieue them with certainty as entirely true which I suppose you will judg to be a Chimericall endeavour and therfor we must inferr that by no text of scripture you can proue it to contayne all necessary poynts of Faith Divers other errours you maintayne against holy scripture which as in the next chapter I will demonstrate make it vncapable of being any Rule at all for Christian Faith and therfor you must either retract those errours or renounce the common principle of protestants that scripture alone contaynes evidently all points necessarily do to believed 96. 19. And lastly I overthrow theit sufficiency of scripture alone by not only answering but also confuting the arguments by which they endeavour to establish it For seeing it lye vpon them positively to prove their Assertion if it be demonstrated that the arguments which they bring are either impertinent or insufficient it wil remayne effectually proved that they cānot avouch Scripture alone to contayne all things necessary to salvation I must therfor of necessity be large in answering their Objections in performing wherof I both Answer and Impugne Defend the truth and Confute my Adversary in one generall poynt which alone implyes or extends it self to all particular controversyes in Faith Your 97. First Objection Pag. 109. N. 144. is taken from a saying of Bellarmin de Verb. Dei L. 4. C. 11. That all those things were written by the Apostles which are necessary for all 98. Answer First Bellarmin even as you alledge him speaks only of things necessary for all that is for every private person not of things necessary for the whole Mysticall body of the Church as if all such things were evidently contained in scripture yea he expressly declares himself to the contrary § Nota Secundo affirming that the Apostles were wont to preach some things only to Prelats Bishops and Priests as of the manner of governing the Church administring Sacraments refuting Heretiques c Secondly he sayes not that all things which are necessary for all are writtren evidently which only could serue your turne but only that they are written which is true though they were writtē obscurely as many things are contained in scripture in particular and yet obscurely and much less doth he say that they are evident without the declaration of the Church and helpe of tradition which only were for your purpose yea that his words can haue no such meaning but the direct and express contrary Bellarm himself will best declare in that very Chapter from which your objection is taken and almost immediatly after the words by you cited Thus he speaks § sed admissa Dico eorum omnium dogmatum c I say that there are found in scripture testimonyes of all those Doctrines which belong to the nature of God ād that we may concerning such Doctrines be fully and plainly instructed out of the scriptures if we vnderstand them aright but that sense of scripture depends on the vnwritten Tradition of the Church Wherfor Theodoret L. 1. C. 8. relates that scriptures were alledged on both sides both by Catholiques and Arians and when the Arians could not be convinced by them scriptures because they did expound those selfsame scriptures otherwise then Catholiques did they were condemned by words not written but vnderstood according to piety and no man ever doubted but that Constātine consented to that condemnation Could any thing haue been spoken more clearly solidly and truly to shew in what sense things of greatest moment as was that article of the Divinity of Christ our Lord against the wicked Arians for defense wherof the church suffered so much and so many Martyrs shedd their bloud are contaynd fully and plainly in scripture that is in those texts which fully and plainly recommend the church and vnwritten tradition as I noted in the beginning And yet further in the same Lib. 4. Cap. 4. § 7. Necesse est c. he saith that oftentymes the scripture is doubtfull and intricate so that it cannot be vnderstood vnless it be interpreted by some who cannot erre therfore it alone is not sufficient which are his express words and then gives divers examples of some chief points even belonging to the nature of God which all good Christians beleeue as matters of Faith and yet cannot be proved by scripture alone And Cap. 7. he saith S. Austine sayd that that Question whether they who were baptized by Heretiques were to be rebaptized could not be decided by scripture before a full Councell of the Church but that after the Councell had declared the doubt and the whole Question there may be taken assured documents from the scripture For scriptures being explicated by the Councell do firmely and certainly proue that which they did not firmely proue before But why do I stand vpon particular passages since in the same Lib. 4. Cap. 3. he speakes vniversally and sayes that we Catholikes disagree
Sancto mihi It hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and me as the Apostles in the first Councell sayd Visum est Spiritui Sancto nobis It hath seemed good to the holy Ghost and vs. Beside this manner of expression It seemed to me also having had perfect vnderstanding of things from the first or as the Rhemes testament hath out of the vulgat and Greeke having diligently attained to all things and as Cornel a Lap interprets assecuto out of the Greek assectato studiosè investiganti ideoque assecuto all which may according to your divinity signify an humane endeavour and diligence rather then divine inspiration Revelation or infallible assistance of the Holy Ghost And this argument may be strongly vrged by calling to mynd that Calvin in Antid Cocil seekes to proue that the writer of the book of the Machabees cannot be esteemed Canonicall because in his second booke second Chapter he sayth And to our owne selves indeed which haue taken vpon vs this worke to make an abridgment we haue taken in hand no easy labour yea rather a business full of watching and swette For Canonicall writters did write not out of their owne witt and industry but by the revelation of the Holy Ghost Doth not this argument of Calvin if it be good as it is not yet as good as Chillingworths Principle or rather the same in effect proue also against S. Lukes both Preface and Gospell because he affirmes that he hath diligently attained to all things and that he wrote in order taking them from those who had heard and seene them Which words according to Calvins discourse signify that S. Luke composed the Gospell after a humane manner by inquiry by diligence by labour by following a method and order c. Wheras Sacred authors wrote not by their owne witt and labour but by revelation of the holy Ghost Therfor if once it be granted as you both grant and seeke to proue that the Apostles did somtyme deliver not divine Revelations but the dictates of humane reason and prudence where can it happen more probably than in this our present case Or what proof can you bring out of some evident Text of scripture that in fact it is not so Thus in steed of prooving out of S. Lukes Preface to his Gospell that his Gospell containes all Points necessary to salvation you plainly deprive both Preface and Gospell of all credit due to them as to the word of God And therfor you cannot draw Arguments from them for yourself against vs. 106. 4. Since it cannot be denyed but that the Holy Ghost might haue vsed the pen of S. Luke to deliver what best pleased his Divine wisdom and Goodness neither can we by humane reason or topicall and seeming probable discourses gather with certainty how far he decreed from Eternity to vse the writing of that holy Evangelist dare any man presume by the strenthg of witt or arguments to force God himself to decree and performe what he imagines should haue been donne yourself Pag. 102. N. 128. affirme this ground to be false that That course of dealing with men seemes always more fit to Divine providence which seems most fit to humane reason And P. 104. N. 136. you say It is our duty to be humbly thankfull for those sufficient nay abundant meanes of salvation which God hath of his owne Goodness granted vs and not conclude he hath done that which he hath not done because forsooth in our vaine judgements it seems conveniâ—nt he should haue done so And Pag. 84. N. 85. Though iâ— were convenient for vs to haue one Judg of controversyes yet it hath pleased God for reasons best known to himself not to allow vs this convenience These passages of yours I relate in this place as very considerable not only for this present occasion but as a generall antidote against your poysonous manner of proving your opinions not by authority or evideÌ„t texts of scripture but with some conceypts or reasons of your owne which you apprehend as probable But this humane prudence is but foolishness when it is applyed to determine what were the Free Eternall decrees of God whose thoughts are raysed aboue our imaginations more than Heaven aboue earth And to come to our purpose the Holy Ghost might haue decreed to teach the world by S. Luke either all things necessary to every man or necessary to the perfect constitution of the Church or mysticall Body of Christ or no things necessary but only profitable or some necessary and some profitable leaving other points necessary or profitable to be learned from the other Canonicall writers or from the Church and Tradition In all which cases the word All had bene truly verifyed because S. Luke had perfectly written All that the Holy Ghost intended to be written by his meanes concerning the words and works of our Blessed Saviour For seing as I sayd aboue All cannot be taken in the most vniversall sense which of it self it might beare the particular limitation or restriction therof must wholy depend on the hidden will and Decree of God which we cannot know with certainty by any humane probable discourse but only by Revelation and consequently no sound and certaine limitation or explication of the vniversall particle All can be given except that which I haue declared that S. Luke hath delivered All according to the End prescribed by the Motion and Inspiration of the Holy Ghost Otherwise what certaine reason can be given why all the Evangelists do somtyme deliver the self same Points and somtyme not yea some one expresses some particular which all the rest haue omitted Or why of these millions of words or deèds which all of them haue omitted some were not sett downe as well as those which now we reade in theÌ„ And so vpon due consideration the expressing the word All cannot he of any advantage to you because it must haue been vnderstood though it had not bene expessed and being expressed signifyes no more then if it had bene only vnderstood and collected from the nature of Holy Scripture and Priviledg of Canonicall Writers for whom we may and must most certainly avouch that they perfectly sett downe All things according to the direction which they receyved from the Holy Ghost Yourself teach Pag. 35. N. 7. that Christians haue meaâ—es sufficient to determine not all controversyes but all necessary to be determined and why should you judg it an incongruity in vs to say that S. Luke wrote not all the words and works of our Sauiour but all necessary to be written by him whose purpose if it had bene to make a Catechisme or Creed or a Summe of Christian Doctrine would haue required an other forme and method different from the Historicall way which he and other Evangelists hold And that S. Luke proposed to himself a farr different End appeares by Eusebius L. 3. C. 24. affirming that S. Luke wrote for this only reason that he saw some others
For if you would be pleased to belieue or at least for the present to abstract from both parts and not suppose the contrary that beside scripture there are other Meanes to propose Divine Verityes your Demand looses all force it being no consequence that when there are divers Meanes to attaine one End we must either make vse determinately of one meanes alone or els not arriue to that End and therfor you must first suppose that there is no meanes but scripture to belieue Divine Revelations before you can make good this consequence Those many of whom S. Luke speaks and S. Luke himself intended to write the Gospell of Christ Therfor they were obliged to write all Poynts necessary to salvation For you will be instantly and easily taken of and answered that beside scripture there are other meanes for the sayd purpose at least in your Argument you must not suppose the contrary without any proof 113. 2. You demand Whether this were not to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed amongst Christians 114. Answer to this I haue sayd already that it is a Chimera for you to faine what in particular those many purposed to sett downe as also why S. Luke should be obliged to write the same particulars which you may dreame those men should haue set downe And your Demand must be answerd by yourself in regard you cannot deny but that many things were and are most certainly believed among Christians which are not expressed in S. Lukes Gospell for example those particulars concerning our B. Saviour which S. Luke sets downe only in the Acts of the Apostles about his Ascension Apparition to S. Stephen to S. Paule c as also those mysteryes which are omitted by S. Luke and written by the other Evangelists and other poynts once believed by Christians and written by none of the Evangelists nor any other Canonicall Writer as S. Iohn Cap. 21. witnesseth You do therfor both begg the question in supposing that those many of whom S. Luke speaks must of necessity haue set downe all necessary points as if all such points must be written by every one who vndertakes to write the Gospell of Christ and also deliver a manifest vntruth as if Christians did not most surely belieue many more Articles than are set downe in S. Lukes Gospell or in the writings of those others if they intended to write the same things which he did 115. Your 3. Demand is Whether the whole Gospell of Christ and every necessary Doctrine of it were not surely believed among Christians 116. Answer Every Doctrine necessary to salvation was surely believed by Christians but to suppose that every thing believed by Christans is written in S. Lukes Gospell or in the whole Bible is to begg the question For you know it is the thing which we deny As also it is certaine that many things surely believed by Christians are not written in S. Lukes Gospell nor in any of the Gospells as I shewed in answer to your second Demand You demand 117. 4. Whether they which were eye-witnesses and Ministers of â—he word from the beginning delivered not the whole Gospell of Christ 118. Answer you either begg the Question if you will still suppose that they delivered in writing the whole Gospell that is all the Doctrine of Christ and also vtter a falshood it being most certaine that they delivered and others believed more then is written as S. John witnesseth Or else you speake nothing to the purpose if you meane only that they delivered in writing some things of the whole Gospell which no man denyes but you should proue that they delivered all necessary Poynts 119. 5. You demand Whether he does not vndertake to write in order these things wherof he had perfect vnderstanding from the first 120. I answer this as I did the last If you meane that he vndertakes to write in order All things necessary wherof he had perfect vnstanding you both begg the question and say more than is true If you meane that he vndertaks to write only some of these things wherof he had perfect vnderstanding from the first you speak not to the purpose of proving that he writes all necessary Points of Faith You demand 121. 6. VVhether he had not perfect vnderstanding of the whole Gospell of Christ 122. Answer Who can assure you that he had perfect vnderstanding of every Miracle which our Saviour wrought But suppose he had perfect vnderstanding of the vvhole Gospell in the largest sense that you can imagine vpon this if you vvill say that he vvrote all Points of vvhich he had perfect vnderstanding you both begg the question and deliver a manifest vntruth as I haue proved 123. 7. You demand VVhether he does not vndertake to write to Theothilus of all things wherin he had been instructed 124. Ansvver vndoubtedly no and I must still repeate that you begg the Question by supposing it and vtter an vntruth by affirming it For to omitt other poynts S. Luke himself in the very first Chapter of the Acts instructed Theophilus in severall things not expressed in his Gospell for example of some circumstances of our B Saviours Ascension his giving the Faithfull at that tyme most holy documents an Angell declaring to them that he vvas to come in judgment a punishment of Judas the Traytour not expressed in the Gospell He burst in the middes and all his bovvels gusshed out Act. 1.18 his sending the Holy Ghost to say nothing of other Points contayned in the Acts in the Gospells of S. Matthevv S. Mark and S. John and in other Canonicall writings not expressed by S. Luke in his Gospell of all which we cannot imagine Theophilus so famous and principall a Christian to haue bene ignorant 125. 8. You demand VVhether he had not bene instructed in all the necessary parts of the Gospell of Christ 126. Answer Certainly he was and in many more Points than were necessary But you begg the Question if you suppose that S. Luke wrote all things wherin Theophilus had bene instructed as also vtter an vntruth as I haue proved or speak not to the purpose if you meane only that he wrote some of those Poynts 127. 9. You demand VVhether in the other Text All things which Iesus began to doe and teach must not at least imply all the principall and necessary things 128. Answer This were an excellent way of proving if it were as good as it is easy To proue what you would haue by the only asking whether it be so which is indeed nothing but to begg the Question Our Question is whether S. Luke haue set downe all necessary Poynts and you proue it by only asking whether it be not so You know we say that neither the Gospell of S. Luke nor the whole scripture alone containes in particular all Points necessary to salvation and as for the word All in S. Luke it cannot signify vniversally and absolutely all things neither
suppose your owne tenet that the scripture alone containeth all things necessary that is vnless you begg the Question you cannot so much as pretend that every one of the Gospells contaynes all such poynts 4. you hold it only probable that every one of the Evangelists hath written all necessary points therfor you belieue it cum formidine oppositi and must think it not impossible but that some good reason may be alledged and much more imagined which is your word for the contrary 142. Secondly I answer you ought to remember that as the Apostles and other Canonicall Writers wrote not their owne humane sense but were inspired and directed by the Holy Ghost of whom we must say Quis Consilarius ejus fuit Rom 11. V. 34. Who hath been his Counseller So you must not expect that we rely on your Topicall cōgruityes for finding out what in particular◠was fit for them to write that is what was the will of God that they should write What reason I pray you can be given why that Holy spirit did inspire foure Evangelists to write neither more nor fewer Why these men were chosen and not others Why they wrote no sooner and not all at once but at very different tymes Why they omitt millons of things and write others and those very few in comparison of those which they omitted and why rather these few in particular which they wrote than some few of those which they wrote not Why some things are written by all of them some only by some and some by one only VVhy other Canonicall VVriters write many profitable but not all necessary things and yet they were wise and honest men and wrote not in a negligent fashion And particularly what reason can be imagined according to your manner of discoursing why any of the Evangelists or other writers of scripture should leaue out any thing necessary for the whole Church as forme of Government Matter ād forme of Sacraments c and yet put in many things which they knew to be only profitable and not necessary either for the whole Church or every particular person or had they great care of what is necessary for particular men and regarded not what was necessary for the whole Church Of this we are very sure that they complyed with that end for which the Holy Ghost moved them to write and the conjectures of such considering men as you take pleasure to be styled cannot be of force with any religious mynd except to condemne you of presumption in prescribing to the Holy Ghost what he should haue moved the Apostles to write vnder payne of forfeiting the repute of vvise and honest men and of being censured of having done so great a worke of God after such a negligent fashion 143. Thirdly I Answer If you will needs haue reasons though we must not rely vpon our owne reason in matters of this nature jam sure betterreasons may be given to proue that the Evangelists were not obliged to write all things necessary then you can with any least ground bring them vnder any such burthen 144. First he who will impose an obligation vpon another in the first place obliges himself to a positiue proofe of what he sayes For till that be done every one by the law of nature enjoyeth the liberty of which he is possessed as on the other side he who denyes an obligation of performing this or that doth sufficiently acquitt himself by pleading that no such obligation can be proved And this is not a bare word or voluntary affirmation as if in that case both contrary parts had equall reasons because neither of them seemes to bring any positiue proofe but such a denyall of an obligation not sufficiently proved is a solid and convincing reason grounded vpon positiue Axiom Melior est conditio possidentis in vaine therfor do you aske what reason can be imagined why any of them should leaue out any thing which he knew to be necessary c it being a most sufficient proofe that they had no such obligation because you can bring no positiue proofe for the contrary and if they were not obliged to do it how can you accuse them for doing so great a work of God after such a negligent fashion meerly because they do not that which they had no obligation at all to doe 145. A second reason may be not only imagined but truly deduced both from your particular Assertion and from the generall doctrine of Protestants You teach that he who wrote the First Gospell S. Matthew delivered evidently all things necessary which to the other Euangelists might be a very sufficient reason to hold themselves free from obligation of repeeting those things which had bene delivered already with evidence and which they did certainly know if the thing were true to haue bene so delivered And this reason vrges yet more concerning S. Luke who vvrote his Gospell after S. Matthevv and S. Mark had vvritten theirs and as I sayd did knovv certainly that they had vvritten all necessary points if indeed they had done so Lastly S. John before he wrote his Gospell had seene the Gospels of the other three Evangelists beside other canonicall scriptures and therfor might with good reason think himself disobliged from doing that which had bene done by so many before him And that Holy Spirit which directed the first Writer of scripture S. Matthew foreseeing all future Canonicall writings in which many necessary points were to be expressed might even according to your humane discourse moue him to omitt so me necessary points which he saw would be delivered in other Scripture or tradition especially if we reflect that a truth once delivered in scripture beleeved to be Gods word is a much as a million of tymes Now from the generall doctrine of Protestants that all necessary things are contained in the vvhole scripture collectiuè not in every part therof a cleare reason may be taken to disoblige the Evangelists from vvriting that vvhich they vvere sure could not but be vvritten in other parts or bookes of holy scripture because that Doctrine implyes that the sole-sufficiency of scripture is perfectly asserted and maintayned if all necessary Points be contained in the whole Bible though they be not all set downe in any one Part or booke therof 146. A third reason may be taken from the End which moved the Evangelists to write which as I haue often sayd being not to make a Cathechisme or a Summe of Christian Doctrine what reason can be imagined that any of them should think himself obliged to set downe in particular all necessary points 147. Will you haue a Fourth reason Let it be this which may also serue for a wholsome and necessary document for you and such as you are we haue good reason to belieue that the Holy Ghost thought not fitt to express either in the Gospells or other Parts of Scriptures all necessary things that we might be put vpon a wholsome and happy necessity
interpretation but that of Gods Church And it is an injury to the insinite wisdom of our B. Saviour to imagine that he left that for a sufficient Meanes to conserue Vnity which hitherto neither hath had nor ever will nor ever can haue that effect without a perpetuall great and vnusuall Miracle by making men different in all other things agree in the sense of Scripture You will not deny but that while the Apostles and other Canonicall writers were aliue the scripture ioined with such explication as they could giue by word of mouth or by writing new bookes was sitter to conserue vnity then now it is and by not making vse of such help of some authenticall interpreter it is sayd of the Epistles of S. Paul 2. Pet. 3 V. 16. that there were in them some hard things to be vnderstood which vnlearned and inconstant persons did depraue to their owne perdition as they did also other Scriptures Now the Church supplyes that want of the Apostles personall presence And so we may say of all Controversyes in Faith as S. Austine de vnit Eccles C. 22. writes concerning the Question about Rebaptization of such as were baptized by Heretikes Seing we find not in Scripture that some pass to the Church from heretiks and were receyved as I say or as thou sayest I suppose that if there were any wise man of whom our Saviour had given testimony and that he should be consulted in this question we should make no doubt to performe what he should say least we might feeme to gainsay not him so much as Christ by whose testimony he was recommended Now Christ beares witness to his Church And a litle after Whosoever refuses to follow the practise of the Church doth resist our Saviour himself who by his testimony recommends the Church 179. To your demand Why may not the Apostles writings be as fit meanes to conserue vs in vnity and keep vs from errour as the Decrees of the Church The Answer is easy and cleare First If one Decree be obscure it may be declared by another seing the church cā never perish 2. If any new cōtroversy in faith arise the Church alwayes living and present cā determine it by some new Decree or Declaration These conditions are wanting in scripture which is alwayes the same and wil be no more cleare or of any larger extent for the contents therof to morrow than it is to day nor can ' it speake and declare it self by it selfe but only can be declared by some living Judg or Interpreter And you are in a great errour if you conceiue that we hold any one Writing or Decree to be sufficient for deciding all Controversyes But we say that the Church vpon severall exigents can declare her mynd either by explicating former Decrees or by promulgating new ones as necessity shall require And for this cause there are extant so many Decrees of Councells c If we did yield to any one writing the sufficiency of ending all emergent Controversyes God forbid we should deny it to hòly scripture Neither do we distinguish Tradition from the written word because Tradition is not written by any or in any booke or writing but because it is not written in the scripture or Bible For Tradition hath this advantage that it may be both written and delivered by word of mouth and so be certainly conserved By these considerations is answered an Objection which you make against some words of Cha Ma and it shall be 180. Object 5. Pag 54. N. 5. You are pleased to speak to your Adversary in this manner In the next words of Cha Ma Part 1. Chap 2. N. 1. we haue direct Boyes-play a thing given with one hand and taken away with the other an acknowledgment made in one line and retracted in the next We acknowledg say you Scripture to be a perfect rule for as much as a writing can be a Rule Only we deny that it excludes vnwritten Tradition As if you should haue sayd we acknowledg it to be as perfect a Rule as a writing can be only we deny it to be as perfect a rule as a writing may be Either therfor you must revoke your acknowledgment or retract your retraction of it for both cannot possibly stand togeather For if you will stand to what you haue granted That Scripture is as perfect a rule of Faith as a writing can be You must then grant it both so compleat that it needes no addition and so evident that it needs no interpretation Now that a writing is capable of both these perfections you say N. 7. is so plaine that I am even ashamed to proue it For he that denyes it must say That something may be spoken which cannot be written For if such a compleat and evident rule of Faith may be delivered by word of mouth as you pretend it may and is and whatsoever is delivered by word of mouth may also be written then such a compleat and evident rule of Faith may also be written Answer me Whether your Church can set downe in writing all these which she pretends to be Divine vnwritten Traditions and add them to the verityes already written And whether she can set vs downe such interpretations of all obscurityes in Faith as shall need no farther interpretations If shee can let her doe it and then we shall haue a writing not only capable of but actually endowed with both these perfections of being both so compleat as to need no Addition and so evident as to need no Interpretation Lastly no man can without Blasphemy deny that Christ Iesus if he had pleased could haue writ vs a rule of Faith so plaine and perfect as that it should haue wanted neither any part to make vp its integrity nor any clearness to make it sufficiently intelligible and then a writing there might haue been endowed with both these propertyes 181. Answer I haue had the patience to set downe your words much more at large than was needfull the answer having been given already that no one writing can without a great and vnvsuall miracle be capable of being a perfect Rule of Faith and your Arguments proue no such matter as will appeare anone But first I must tell you that you cite Cha Ma very disadvantagiously or rather falsely thus We acknowledg scripture to be a perfect Rule for as much as a writing can be a Rule only we deny that it excludes vnwritten Tradition and here you stopp wheras He added We only deny that it excludes either divine Tradition though it be vnwritten or an externall judge to keep to propose to interpret it in a true Orthodox and Catholique sense Now that no writing is able to propose or proue it self to be authentiall or true or to keep and conserue it self Cha Ma proved ibidem N. 3.4.5.6 and the thing is of it self so true and evident that Pag 61. N. 24. to the words of Cha Ma The scripture stands in need of some
particularly than vpon any other and let it be redd over an hundred tymes it will be still the same and no more fit alone to terminate Controversyes in Faith than the Law would be to end suites if it were given over to the phansy and glosse of every single man 184. And this which hath bene sayd in generall of any one writing is in a particular manner to be affirmed of Holy Scripture or of any writing contayning Divine and sublime Mysteryes which seeme repugnant to naturall Reason For the height of such truthes moves the will and perswades the vnderstanding to seek out any sense of words though orherwise seeming cleare rather then to belieue things seeming evidently contrary to Reason Besides seing as I alledged out of Doctour Taylour in his § 3. N. 2. words may be taken in a litterall or spirituall sense and both these senses are subdivided For the litterall sense is either naturall or figuratiue And the spirituall is sometymes allegoricall somtymes anagogicall nay somtymes there are divers litterall senses in the same sentence as appeares in divers quotations in the New Testament where the Apostles and Divine Writers bring the same Testimony to divers purposes Seing I say this is so how it is possible that any one writing can be so evident both for words and meaning that all men by only reading the same words must be necessitated to take them in the same sense literall spirituall naturall figuratiue allegoricall anagogicall and that even of divers literall senses of the same Text every person must see all which if he do not he may misse in one though he chance to hitt right in another since there cannor possibly be assigned any infallible Rule which yet is necessary for settling an Act of Faith to know in particular when and where words capable of so many and so different meanings are determinately to be vnderstood in this or that sense If you say God might put a remedy to this diversity of meanings by setling the indetermination or diversity of mens vnderstandings with perpetuall Miracles effectually keeping them all to the same judgment of all the same places or subtracting his concurse to all contrary assents I answer this would be a strang kind of proceeding or Miracle neither would it make any thing to your purpose because as I sayd we speake of a writing taken alone without Miracle or Tradition And seing de facto God workes no such Miracle as we see by Experience in the disagreements of Christians concerning places of Scripture which for the words seeme very evident it followes that both for the divinity and Interpretation or true meaning of Scripture we must depend on Tradition or a Living Judge And thus is answered your Argument that no man can without Blasphemy deny that Christ Iesus could haue writ vs a Rule of Faith so plaine and perfect as that it should haue wanted neither any part to make vp its integrity nor any clearness to make it sufficiently intelligible For I grant that our Saviour could by Miracle haue procured that all men should frame the same Judgment of the same words but deny that this could haue happened infallibly by meanes of any one writing alone which is our present Question and your having recourse to our Saviours extraordinary Power proves the very thing to be true which I affirme that it cannot be done by any one writing alone And when Charity Maintayned sayd we acknowledg Holy scripture to be a most perfect Rule for as much as a writing can be a Rule every one sees by the whole drift of his discovrse and plain words that he spoke of a writing alone and considered according to the nature therof and in that course which God de facto holds without dreaming of Metaphysicall suppositions of your imagination or of flying to such Miracles as God neither hath nor for ought we can vvith any shadow of reason imagine ever vvill worke vniversally in the vnderstandings of all men to belieue with certainty the particular dogmaticall sense of words for the vnderstanding wherof they haue no certaine vniversall Rule either evidently seene by Reason or certainly believeed by revelation It is also evident that when Cha Ma spoke the aforesayd words of Scripture He compared it not with all writings which successively and without end may interpret or declare one an other but with any one writing taken alone which as I haue proved can not possibly propose conserue or interpret itself For as Scripture or the Bible is one whole work or booke so it ought to be compared only with one other writing or booke as also He spoke of a writing as it is contradistinguished from Tradition or a perpetuall Living Judg. But if you will be supposing a multiplication or as it were successiue addition of a latter writing to extend or declare the former you are out of our case of a sole writing and joyne a writing with a Living Writer and Judg and so grant perforce the very thing which we affirme and you pretend to deny If the Apostles were still Living to declare their former writings by word of mouth or new Scriptures we needed no other Living Judg but seing they are deceased and no one writing is sufficient to interpret it selfe we must haue recourse to some present alwayes existent and Living Judg for determining Controversyes of Faith and interpreting Holy Scripture I belieue the vnpartiall Reader will Judge that which you call Boyes-play to haue turned in good earnest to a greater disadvantage to yourselfe and your cause than you imagined And that your Arguments are of no force to proue that any one writing can of it self be a perfect Rule of Faith 185. We grant that whatsoever is spoken may be written and affirme that as no one writing so no one speech can be a compleat Rule of Faith but both the one and the other stand in need of some other speach or writing to declare them as occasion shall require neither do we pretend that the Church can set downe in any one writing all traditions and Interpretations or Declarations of all things belonging to Faith but she can and will by severall writings declare Doubts as they shall occurre necessary to be determined You say Neither is that an Interpretation which needs againe to be interpreted as if a word or writing or Interpretation might not be cleare for some part and yet need a further Declaration in some other respect or point or purpose or for such as did not fully vnderstand the first Interpretation And as you say it is one thing to be a perfect Rule of Faith another to be proved so vnto vs so it is one thing to be a true yea a full Interpretation in it self another to appeare so without addition of some other declaration as also the first interpretation may giue some light yet to be further perfited by some subsequent exposition None can deny that the Canonicall Writers of the New Testament
Scripture or what Books be CaÌ„onicall is not one of those principles which God hath written in mens harts nor a conclusion evidently arising from them nor is contained in Scripture in express termes or deducible from it by apparent consequence it being your owne Assertion Pag 69. N. 46. that it need not to be proved that the Divinity of a writing cannot be knowne from itself alone but by some extrinsecall Authority for no wise man denyes it it followes that according to your Principles it can be knowne only by the constant and Vniversall delivery of all Churches ever since the Apostles Now as you say there is no certainty but that a Doctrine or truth even a Divine truth constantly and vniversally delivered by the Apostolique Churches may through mens wickedness be contracted from its vniversality and interrupted in its perpetuity So also may the Canon or Bookes of Scripture which can haue no other argumeÌ„t to justify and support them beside Tradition run the some hazard by the wickednenss of meÌ„ and so come to loose vniversality aÌ„d perpetuity aÌ„d so cannot justify aÌ„d support any Divine truth And as true Books may come to loose so false ones may by the wickedness of meÌ„ come to gaine authority vnless we be assured of the contrary by the belief of an infallible Guide which can never admit of Apocryphall of false Scripture 89. 11. I goe forward to impugne your Tradition out of your owne words Pag 14. N. 14. were you say Though you say that Christ hath promised there shall be a perpetuall visible Church Yet you yourselves doe not pretend that he hath promised there shall be Historyes and Records alwayes extant of the professours of it in all ages nor that he hath any where enjoyned vs to read those Histories that we may be able to shew them Out of these words I argue thus It is not sufficient for your vniversall Tradition of all Ages that the whole Church of this age for example accept a Booke for Canonicall vnless it can be proved to haue bene receyved by all Churches of all ages as Pag 152. N. 44. You openly profess to dissent from S. Austine in this that whatsoever was practised or â—eld by the vniversall Church of his tyme must needs haue come from the Apostles and therfor it is necessary for you to affirme that there alwayes must be Historyes and records which one Age is to receyve from another to proue that Scripture was delivered for the word of God by the Apostles But You do not pretend that God hath promised that there shall be Historyes or Records alwayes extant nor that he hath any where enjoyned vs to reade these Historyes that we may be able to shew them and by them know the true Books of Scripture Therfor you must grant out of your owne assertion that you haue no sufficient meanes to know and rely vpon your Tradition especially if we consider that vnlearned men cannot possibly know whether there be such sufficient ground and Historyes as are necessary to make it Vniversall and yet all sorts of people must haue necessary and sufficient meanes for the knowledg of all things necessary to salvation which meanes Protestants affirme to be the Scripture alone But with vs the case is farr different who belieue a Perpetuall Visible Church For we believing that Church to be Infallible in one age as well as in another are not obliged to seeke after historyes or Records of tymes past as you are for your humane fallible Tradition in regard the Church being alwayes existent and Visible is perpetually indued whith such Notes Prerogatives and Evident Signes as make her manifest in every age and worthy of credit in matters belonging to Religion and among other Points for this in particular that herself must alwayes be Visible as shall be declared herafter more at large though it be also true that it may be evidently shewed for every age by all kind of Witnesses as well friends as Adversaryes that our Church hath alwayes had a visible Being and Prosessours of her Doctrine with a perpetuall Succession of Pastours and this so manifestly that it can no more be denyed than that there haue bene Christians ever since the tyme of the Apostles yea or that there have bene Emperours Kings Writers Warrs or such publike things as no man can deny But you who ground your belief of Scripture and all Chaistianity vpon a fallible Tradition knowne by Humane Historyes and Records of all ages and every one of your sect must either despayre of salvation or els procure to be learned and versed in all Historyes though yet even this will not preserue them from cause of despaire considering how insufficient humane Tradition is of itself as I haue proved out of your owne words and to the rest I will add your saying Pag 361. N. 40. The Fathers did vrge the joynt Trad 〈…〉 all the Apostelique Churcher with one mouth and one voyce teaching the same Doctrine not at a demonstration but only as a very probable Argument If this be so seing your vniversall Tradition can I hope be no better than the joynt Tradition of all the Apostolique Churches surely you can Vrge it only for a very probable and no demonstratiue Argument especially if we reflect that you profess the whole vniversall Church before Luthers tyme to haue fallen into many great and gross errours even concerning the Canon of Scripture and consequently that the first vniversall Tradition from the Apostles came to be altered and corrupted and that your forsayd very probable Argument de facto hath fayled if your Heresy were true that the whole Church hath fallen into errour 90. 12. Pag 149. N. 38. You say I must learne of the Church or of some part of the Church or I cannot know any thing Fundamentall or not Fundamentall For how can I come to know that there was such a Man as Christ that he taught such Doctrines that he and his Apostles did such Miracles in confirmation of it that the Scripture is Gods Word vnless I be taught it So then the church is though not a certaine foundation and proof of my Faith yet a necessary introduction to it I confess I haue studyed to find what sense you can haue in these words and can find nothing but contradictions and finally that your owne Tradition cannot be a sufficient ground for our belief of Scripture You say I must learne of the Church or of some part of the Church or I cannot know any thing Fundamentall or not Fundamentall And in particular That Scripture is the Word of God I askeâ— what you meane by the Church or some part of the Church Is your meaning that the Tradition of some part of the Church is sufficient to believe Scripture to be the Word of God Against this you profess every where that the Scripture is to be receyved only vpon vniversall Tradition of all Churches and Times from the Apostles At least will you
vnderstand and to whom the greatest Clerks must submit Such is the Church and the Scripture is not such 4. 4. To this Argument you answer Pag 92. N. 104. saying The Scripture is sufficiently perfect and sufficiently intelligible in things necessary to all that haue vnderstanding whether they be learned or vnlearned And my reason herof is convincing and Demonstratiue because nothing is necessary to be believed but what is plainly revealed 5. This Answer is nothing to your purpose vnlesse you add That nothing is necessary to be believed but what is plainly revealed in Scripture and that being added it is a meere begging of the Question taking that for a Proofe which is the thing controverted betweene vs so farr is your Reason from being convincing and demonstratiue You should haue vsed a direct contrary forme of Argument and sayd The Scripture is not cleare in poynts of greatest moment even to the learned as experience teaches and I proved hertofore at larg Therfor God hath not fayled to provide vs of some Judg and rule intelligible to all which is his Visible Church on earth 6. But say you Pag. 93. N. 106. The Evangelists did not write only for the learned but for all men And therfor vnless we will imagine the Holy Ghost and them to haue been willfully wanting to their owne desire and purpose we must conceiue that they intended to speake plaine even to the capacity of the simplest at least touching all things necâ—ssary to be published by them and believed by vs. 7. Answer 1. In this whole Controversy whether the Scripture alone be a Rule of Faith without the Church you goe vpon humane and topicall discourses wheras if all matters of Faith are to be tryed by Scripture alone your Arguments should be taken from it alone For by humane Reason we cannot be assured of Gods voluntary Decree whether or no he will haue vs regulated by Scripture alone 2. To make your discourses haue any shew of proofe you must still begg the Question and suppose that there is no meanes left for vs to learne matters of Faith except the Scripture and therfor you say the Holy Ghost and the Evangelists had bene wilfully wanting to their owne desire and purpose vnless they had written to the capacity of the simplest at least all things necessary to be published by theÌ„ aÌ„d believed by vs which supposes all things necessary must needs be written and that no such poynt could be delivered by the Church though not expressed in Scripture which is manifestly false seing the Evangelists wrote while the Apostles were aliue and could deliver by word of mouth not only some but all necessary or profitable Articles of Faith as Christians were taught for those yeares before which no Scripture of the New Testament was written and therfor I may turne the Argument vpon yourself and say At that tyme there was no necessity that the Gospells should be written to all yea or to any and therfor supposing the writing of them you cannot suppose that they were plaine even to the capacity of the simplest If writing were so necessary for all then enters your owne Argument against yourself How the Holy Ghost and the Evangelists were not wanting to their duty in differring so long to write in so much as S. Johns Gospell was not written many yeares after our Saviours Ascention that is about the yeare 99. which makes it cleare that writing was not so necessary I do not deny but when they wrote they wrote for all but not as if all must of themselves be able to vnderstand them without the helpe of the Church and in this sense we may say they rather wrote for all than to all otherwise all must be obliged to learne to read yea and to be learned and be able to judg of languages translations c. seing from Scripture alone they must learne all Points necessary to salvation Do not you teach that if one should belieue all the Mysteryes of Christian Religion though he should not belieue but even reject Scripture yet he may be saved Therfor much more one may be saved though he himself vnderstand no Scripture in case he haue some other to declare it Yea even the most learned must finally not rely vpon their owne abilityes or evidence of Scripture but vpon the infallible Voice and Interpretation of the Church as we haue proved Not only the Gospells but all Scripture was written for all that is for the good of all one way or other and yet I hope you will not say it is necessary that all must by themselves vnderstand all Scripture Do you thinke in good earnest that none is so vnlearned as not to vnderstand all the foure Gospells And yet you say they did not write only for the learned but for all men You will say at least they must be plaine to all touching all things necessary to be believed Yes if first you take for true and granted that which you know we deny that all things necessary are contayned in Scripture alone or that we can learne them by no other meanes than by Scripture itself And this your Limitation at least insinuates that you cannot affirme the Gospells to be cleare in all Points and yet as I sayd and as you say the Evangelists did not write only for the learned but for all men 8. You say This writing the Gospells was one especiall meanes of the preaching of the Gospell which was commanded to be preached not only to learned men but to all men 9. Answer Preaching and writing are different things and we are not wont to say that men preach by writing or write by preaching yet if you meane only that writing the Scripture is one especiall meanes for divulging or publishing the Gospell I grant it and acknowledg an infinite obligation to God for having vouchsafed to inspire men for writing the Holy Scripture but I deny that writing was a necessary meanes of preaching the Gospell which the Apostles themselves declared in fact who instantly after the receiving of the Holy Ghost set themselves to preach but not to write and they who wrote were but few and those few performed it not as a thing necessary or enjoined but only vpon incident occasions Therfor wher you make this Argument writing was one especiall meanes of the preaching of the Gospell and therfor must be plaine even to the capacity of the simplest you should say the contrary Writing was no necessary meanes of the preaching the Gospell and therfor there is no necessity that it be plaine to all Yourself say Pag 35. N. 7. Plaine sense will teach every man that the necessity of the meanes must alwayes be measured by and can never exceed the necessity of the end As if eating be necessary only that I may liue then certainly if I haue no necessity to liue I haue no neceâ—sity to eate If I haue no need to be at London I haue no need of a horse to carry me
thither If then we may learne all things necessary to salvation without a writing or Scripture as you grant we may and as all Christians must grant for the tyme before Scripture was written we must say therfor it is not necessary for that end and though it were necessary yet it is not necessary that it be so plaine as every man may vnderstand it by himself seing that end of vnderstanding may be compassed by another meanes which is the Declaration of Gods Church And here I beseech you reflect on your owne words Pag 79. N. 68. That it is altogether abhorrent from the goodnesse of God to suffer an ignorant Laymans soule to perish meercly for being misled by an vndiscernable false Translation which yet was commended to him by the Church which being of necessity to credit some in this matter he had Reason to rely vpon either aboue all other or as much as any other Therfore say I we are to belieue that the Church on which we must relie ought to be infallible that so we may trust her without danger For if her Authority be fallible vncertaine and doubtfull yea if de facto she erred she is liable to your censure Pag 37. N. 20. A doubtfull and Questionable Guide is for mens direction as good as non◠at all 10. But here againe Pag 93. and Pag 94. N. 108. which is put to two § § You object how shall an vnlearned man amongst vs know which is the true Church or what that Church hath decreed seing the Church hath not bene so carefull in keeping of her Decrees but that many are lost and many corrupted and that even the learned among vs are not agreed concerning diverse things whether they be de fide or not Or how shall the vnlearned be more capable of vnderstanding the sense of the Decrees of the Church than of plaine Texts of Scripture especially seing the Decrees of divers Popes and Councells are conceyved so obscurely that the learned cannot agree about the sense of them and are all written in languages which the ignorant vnderstand not and therfor must of necessity rely herein vpon the vncertaine and fallible Authority of fome particular men who informe them that there is such a Decree And if they were translated into vulgar languages why the Translators should not be as fallible as you say the Translatours of the Scripture are who can possibly imagine And N. 109. you say How shall an vnlearned man or indeed any man be assured of the certainty of any Decree seing a Councell depends on a true Pope which he cannot be if he came in by Simony or were not babtized which depends on the due Intention of the Minister or were not rightly ordayned Priest and this againe depends vpon the Ordainers secret Intention and also vpon his having the Episcopall Character 11. This is the summe of what not only you but other Protestants are wont to object and it is the vtmost of your endeavours But will be easily answered by laying this ground That both in this and other Poynts we must distinguish between the certainty of a generall ground or foundation and the certainty of that particular meanes by which we actuate or apply to particular occasions that Generall ground which vnless it be first belieued with certainty cannot haue strength to moue vs to vndertake with resolution and perseverance mattters of great difficulty You say Pag 143. N. 30. There is not so much strength required in the Edisice as in the Foundation And if but wise men haue the ordering of the building they will make it much a sever thing that the foundition shall not faile the building then that the building shall not fall from the Foundation 12. This Truth will better be vnderstood by Examples That we may prudently yield Obedience Piety and Observance and be obliged to doe so towards Magistrates Parents and Superious it is sufficient that we haue a morall and prudent practicall judgment that they are such because that judgment is sufficient to apply the generall ground that Obedience Piety c are due to Magistrates Parents c But if that Generall ground were not certaine as an evident dictamen of Reason but only probable men would not thinke themselves obliged to such dutyes but rather would stand for their liberty by pleading possession and following that other dictamen of Reason Equity and Justice Meliorest conditio possidentis To Hope for the reward promised to the just after this life it is sufficient that we haue good Reason though not certainty that we are just or in the state of Grace But if this generall Principle The just shall be eternally rewarded were not certaine few I feare would be perswaded to preferr a future vncertainty before that which they enjoy certainly and for the present You say Pag 172. N. 71. The Spirit of Truth may teach a man Truth and yet he may fall into some errour even contrary to the truth which is taught him if it be taught him only sufficiently and not irresistibly But if one were not certaine of this generall ground That God of his part teaches every one sufficiently men would not easily thinke themselves obliged or would be induced to vse their best endeavours to learne things which they belieue cannot be learned vnless God alone teach them sufficiently if they had no certainty that they can hope for any such teaching And to come neerer to our purpose If one do verely belieue some particular Poynt to be evidently contained in Scripture who can oblige him to belieue that Point with absolute certainty vnless he first belieue Scripture itself to be the infallible word of God Neither is this enough to make his Assent really infallible though it were supposed to be casually true vnless Scripture were not only believed to be the word of God but that indeed it be so For Infallibility of Assent signifyes two things the one that de facto the thing for the present is true the other that it depends on such constant Causes or Priciples as cannot in any possible case or occasion consist with falshood or vncertainty which could not be verifyed vnless Scripture in truth and reality and not only in opinion or belief be the word of God For though in some one occasion it might chance to speake truth yet in some other it might faile and cause vs to fall into some errour But if we make another kind of supposition That one is told by his Pastour or Prelate whom he might prudently belieue that some Point is contained in Scripture which indeed is so contayned ād he beleeue it as cōtayned in that booke which he believes to be the word of God ād in itself is such and consequently infallible in that case he of whom I spoke may exercise an infallible act of faith though his immediate instructour or proposer be not Infallible because he believes vpon a ground which both is believed to be Infallible and is such indeed
belieue the Divell with an infallible Assent for his owne Authority in saying there is one God vnless I belieue him to be infallible But if he proue what he sayes by some evident demonstration I do not belieue him for his Authority but I yield Assent to the demonstration proposed by him for the evidence and certainty of the thing itself proved by such a demonstration and so alwayes infallibility in our Assent requires infallibility in the Ground or Motiue therof As de facto the Divell himself knowes with an infallible internall Assent yea and as I may say feeles to his cost that there is a God but whether you can belieue him with certainty when exteriourly he vtters that or any other Point meerly for his Authority is nothing to our purpose though it seemes you can best diue into his intentions by what you say in your Answer to your Eight Motiue where you say The Divell might perswade Luther from the Masse hoping by doing so to keepe him constanâ— to it or that others would make his disswasion from it an Argument for it as we see Papists doe you should add and as yourself did before you were a Papist and be afrayd of following Luther as confessing himself to haue bene perswaded by the Divell This your strang answer to your owne Motiue I do not confute in this occasion it having bene done already in a litle Treatise intituled Heantomachta or Mr. Chillingworth against himself and in an other called Motives Maintayned Certainly you haue not observed that saying We must not bely the Divell 19. The same Answer I giue to your example of a Geometritian whom in those things which he demonstrates we do not belieue for his Authority but for evidence of his demonstration which is infallible neither did the Author of Charity Maintayned belieue for his owne fallible Authority that he hath written such a Booke but by evidence and infallibility offense And here you should remember your owne words Pag 325. N. 2. Faith is not knowledg no more then three is foure but eminently contained in it so that he that knowes believes and somthing more but he that believes many tymes does not know nay if he doth barely and meerly belieue he doth never know Therfor according to your owne Doctrine he who assents in vertue of some evident demonstration doth know and not belieue for the Authority of another And who sees not that if I belieue a thing for some other reason and not for the Authority of him who affirmes it I cannot be sayd to belieue it for his Authority but I assent to it for that other reason Yea if we consider the matter well when I know one affirmes a thing and yet do not belieue it for his Authority but for some other Motiue or reason I may be sayd of the two rather to disbelieue then belieue him at least I do not belieue him at all for that Point but either some other Person or for some other Reason Wherfor You do but trifle when Pag 138. N. 36. You speake to Charity Maintayned in these words You say we cannot belieue the Church in propounding Canonicall Books if the Church be not vniversally infallible if you meane still as you must doe vnless you play the Sophister not vpon her owne Authority I grant it For we belieue Canonicall Bookes not vpon the Authority of the present Church but vpon vniversall Tradition If you meane not at all and that with reason we cannot belieue these Bockes to be Canonicall which the Church proposes I deny it In these words I say you do but trifle For you know that Charity Maintayned did speake of believing the Church vpon her owne Authority which is so true that you say he must meane so vnless he play the Sophister and what then shall we think you play in imputing to him such a sense wheras you deny not but that his words may be taken in a good sense as indeed they could not be taken otherwise Beside I do not at all belieue the Church when I chance to belieue that which she proposes if I belieue it for some other reason and not for her Authority and therfor it is a contradiction in you to say I belieue the Church at all when I belieue for some other reason as I haue declared aboue You say Pag 35. N. 7. I grant that the meanes to decide Controversyes in Faith and Religion must be indued with an vniversall infallibility in whatsoever it propoundeth for a Divine Truth For if it may be false in any one thing of this nature in any one thing which God requires men to belieue we can yield vnto it but a wavering and fearfull assent Is not this the very same thing which Charity Maintayne sayd If now one should turne your owne words against yourself and say Indeed if you had sayd we can yield vnto it but a wavering and fearfull Assent in any thing for its owne sake I should willingly grant your consequence But if you meane not at all I deny it Would you not say that he did but cavill Remember then Quod tibi non vis fieri alteri ne seceris But let vs goe forward 20. The second difference between learned and vnlearned Catholikes and both those kinds of Protestants is this You say Pag 87 N. 94. The Scripture is not so much the words as the sense If therfor Protestants haue no certaine Meanes or Rule to know the true sense of Scripture to them it cannot be Scripture nor the infallible Word of God But I haue proved that Protestants haue no such certaine Meanes or Rule Therfor we must inferr that by pretending to follow Scripture alone they do not rely vpon any certaine ground and that Scripture to them cannot be an infallible Rule And this being true even in respect of the learned the Faith of the vnlearned who depend on them cannot possibly be resolved into any infallible ground wheras the vnlearned amongst Catholikes believing their Pastors who rely on the Church which both is and is believed to be infallible their Faith comes to be resolved into a ground really infallible The like Argument may be taken from Translations Additions Detractions and Corruptions of Scripture of which the learned Protestants can haue no certainty and much less the vnlearned and so their Faith is not builded vpon any stable Foundation and consequently the vncertaintyes which we object to you touch the very generall grounds of your Faith and not only the particular meanes by which they are applyed to every one 21. 3. I appeale to the conscience of every vnpartiall man desirous to saue his soule whether in Prudence one ought not to preferr the Roman Church and those who agree with Her before any companie of Sectaryes who disagreeing among themselves cannot all belieue aright and yet none of them is able to satisfy why their particular sect should be preferred before others who pretend Scripture alone no less then they Of
which differences the vnlearned amongst them being not able to judg they cannot prudently joyne themselves rather to one than another Sect as for the same reason they being not learned cannot prudently conceiue themselves able to convince vs out of Scripture no more than they can judg what company of Sectaryes is to be preferred before all other seing the learned Protestants cannot convince one another especially if we remember that they assigne for vnderstanding the sense of Scripture many Requisites and Rules which exceed the capacity of the vnlearned who therfor must resolue either to be of no Religion at all which no man indued with the common light of reason can resolue or els must judg that they may safely and ought constantly to imbrace the Catholique Roman Religion which if they doe their proceeding being prudent God will not be wanting to affoard them his supernaturall concurrence for the production of an Act of Faith even though we should suppose that the particular immediate reasons which induce them to this resolution be not of themselves certaine and infallible but yet such as all circumstances considered are prudent and the best that occurre in such an occasion Beside No Man of ordinary discretion knowledg and prudence though otherwise vnlearned can choose but haue heard that the Roman Religion is very ancient that divers learned Protestants thinke very well of it and of those who dy in that profession yea expressly grant that divers whom they belieue to be Saints in Heaven did liue and dye in our Religion they see evidently that we agree among ourselves that great Miracles haue bene wrought in our Church with the happy success of converting Infidells to Christian Religion Wheras contrarily for every one of the sayd considerations it is evident that Protestants cannot chaleng them yea they profess that before Luther the world was in darkness and that their reformation began with him that we hold no Heretike whether Protestant or other can be saved without repentance and yet as I sayd that the most learned among Protestants grant Vs salvation that they haue no peace among themselves nor can ever hope for it that they profess Miracles to haue ceased that they do not so much as endeavour to convert Nations and yet every Christian believes that Christ commanded his Apostles to preach the Gospell to Nations for their conversion these things I say and divers other are so manifest that the vnlearned cannot be ignorant of them and therfor no Protestant can prudently adhere to any particular Sect. 22. You in particular who teach that Christian Faith is but probable must profess that even learned Protestants haue no infallible ground for their Faith For if they had such a ground and did certainly know it to be such their Faith would be infallible which you deny But this head of vncertainty doth nothing at all touch Catholikes learned or vnlearned who vnanimously believe Christian Faith to be absolutely certaine and infallible Out of these grounds I come now to answer your Objections 23. You aske Pag 93. N. 108. How shall an vnlearned man ignorant of Scripture know watch of all the Societyes of Christians is indeed the Church 24. Answer This Demand must be answered by yourself who profess to belieue the Scripture for the Authority of the Church as for the chief ground of such your belief and other Protestants acknowledg the Church to be an inducement to belieue it How then do you and they independently of Scripture or before they belieue Scripture know which of all the Societyes of Christians is indeed the Church The Church was before Scripture and might still haue continued without Scripture in which respect there cannot want evident Notes to distinguish between the true and false Church even for the vnâ—â—arned if they will apply themselves to cooperate with the occasions and Grace which Goind his Goodness never failes to offer 25. But then say you ibidem seeing men may deceive and be deceyved and their words are not demonstrations how shall he be assured that what they say is true Answer First the Notes and Markes of Gods Church are so patent that every one may evidently see them vpon condition that he be not negligent in an affaire of so great moment 2. I haue shewed already that the Meanes by which infallible grounds of Faith are applyed to every one need not be of themselves infallible as also I haue declared the difference between vnlearned Catholikes and Protestants in this behalf Now the true Church being once found your other Objections are of no force For that Church infallibly directed by the Holy Ghost cannot faile to make Decrees and conserue or renew and communicate them to faithfull people as need shall require A thing not hard to be done in the Catholike Church professing obedience to one supreame Head the Vicar of Christ and Successour to S. Peter who by subordinate Prelates and Pastours can easily and effectually convey Decrees Ordinations and Lawes to all sorts of Persons 26. You say Pag 94. N. 108. even the learned among vs are not agreed concerning divers things whether they be de fide or not But this can apport no prejudice to the vnlearned yea nor to the learned so that they all stand prepared and resolved to belieue and obey what the Church shall determine which as I haue often sayd she will be sure to doe when it shall be necessary for the good of soules and to doe it so as her voyce shall be clearly heard and vnderstood by one or more decrees and declarations Thus we see Generall Councells haue declared divers Points of Faith after they began to be controverted by some and found meanes to notify them to Catholikes of all sorts I beseech you what Christians after the ancient and sacred Councell of Nice were ignorant that Arius and is followers your progenitours were condemned for denying our Saviour Christ to be the Son of God true God and equall to his Father Or what Catholike in these latter tymes is ignorant that Heretikes hold and haue bene condemnd for holding divers Errours contrary to the belief and practise of the Catholique Church as making the signe of the Crosse The Reall presence and Adoration of our Saviour Christ in the B. Sacrament the Sacrifice of the Masse Prayers to the Saints in Heaven and for the Soules in Purgatory Worshipping of Images Seaven Sacraments observing of set feasts and fasts vow of Chastity for Persons in holy Orders and Religious men and woemen and the like 27. You vrge Pag 94. N. 108. How shall an vnlearned man be more capable of vnderstanding the sense of Decrees made by the Church then of plaine Texts of Scripture especially seing the Decrees of divers Popes and Councells are conceyved so obscurely that the learned cannot agree about the sense of them And then they are written all in such languages which the ignorant vnderstand not and therfor must of necessity rely herin vpon the vncertaine and
fallible authority of some particular men who informe them that there is such a decree And if the decrees were translated into vulgar languages why the translatours should not be as fallyble as you say the translatours of scripture are who can possibly imagine 28. Answer Take away an infallible living Judg and Tradition of the Church you will hardly find any Text of Scripture containing the sublime Mysteries of Christian Faith evident even to the learned among you as hath bene proved hertofore and appeares by the experience of your great and irremediable disagreements and is manifest of itselfe because you haue no certaine Rule when the Scripture is to be taken in a litterall figuratiue morall c sense which difficulty ceases in the Decrees of the Church both because it is knowen vpon what occasion and against what Enours the Church makes â—her Decrees as all know vpon what occasion and against whom the sacred Councell of Trent was gathered and therby it is easy to vnderstand the decrees for the Negatiue or affirmatiue part at least for the substance and the things chiefly inteÌ„ded in them or if any doubt should remayne the Church can declare herself which Scripture can never doe And although the Decrees of Popes and Councells are not conceyved so obscurely as you would make men falsely belieue yet all obscurity is easily cleared by some further declaration As for languages in which they are written it is Latine a language knowne not only to the learned but to many also whom we need not reckon among the learned and they who vnderstand not Larine will find so great vniformity among all those who vnderstand that Language that they cannot remaine vncertaine concerning the meaning of those Decrees though they be not translated into vulgar Languages or if they were so translated eyther the translations would be found totally to agree or els it were easy to be informed which of them did mistake seing innumerable persons do perfectly vnderstand Latine and Besides as I sayd it is evidently knowne vpon what occasion the Decrees were framed and what was the scope of them and what part they condemned as false or defined as true But for Scripture seing you haue no certaine Rule to know the sense therof aÌ„d Translations of Protestants are manifestly seen to be contrary one to another the most learned among you can haue no certainty yea I dare say that greater learning will occasion greatest multiplicity of doubts and perplexityes vnless there be acknowledged an infallible Living Judg and much less can the vnleaned haue certainty sufficient to exercise a true Act of Diuine Faith More of this matter may be seen in Charity Maintayned Part 2. Chap 5. N. 32. in answer to an Objection made by Potter like to this of yours To your saying If the Decrees were translated into vulgar Languages why the Translators should not be as fallible as you say the Translators of the Scripture are who can possibly imagine I answer There is a manifold difference between the Translations of Scripture and of the Ecclesiasticall Decrees For every word of Scripture was inspired by the Holy Ghost One Text may haue divers literall senses intended by the same Holy Spirit We are ignorant what was the scope of Canonicall Writers for every particular Chapter or Text Every Reason given in holy Scripture is a matter of Faith The style and Majesty therof surpasses humane wit and manner of writing All which considerations make the Translations of Scripture both more difficult and more dangerous then those of Ecclesiasticall Definitions or Decrees in which the fore sayd Reasons haue not place as appeares by what I sayd even now 29. But you would proue Pag 94. N. 109. that no man can be certaine of the Churches Decrees which must be confirmed by a true Pope Now the Pope cannot be true Pope if he came in by simony Which whether he did or no who can answer me He cannot be true Pope vnless he were baptized and baptized he was not vnless the Minister had due intention So likewise he cannot be a true Pope vnless he were rightly ordained Priest and that againe depends vpon the Ordainers secret intention and also vpon his having the Episcopall Character All which things depend vpon so many vncertaine suppositions that no humane judgment can possibly be resolved in them I conclude therfor that not the learnedst man amongst you all no not the Pope himself can according to the grounds you goe vpon haue any certainty that any Decree of any Councell is good and valid and consequently not any assurance that it is indeed the Decree of a Councell 30. Answer These very Objections Potter made and are answered by Charity Maintayned Part 2. Chap 5. N 31. but you take no notice therof That your suppositions are never to be admitted but we are sure that whosoever in a tyme free from Schisme is once accepted by the Church for a true Pope is such indeed Yet if you will be making such vntrue suppositions that the Pope did enter by Simony or wanted Baptisme or true Ordination God would never permitt him to define any thing in prejudice of the Church Neither are the occasions of Defining matters of Faith alwayes vrgent as we see the Church for the space of three hundred yeares after the Apostles past without any Generall Councell Yea if de facto any Pope define some truth to be a matter of Faith we are sure even by his doing so that he is true Pope it being impossible that God should permit his vniversall Church to be obliged to belieue a falshood or an vncertaine thing as all are obliged to beleeve the Definition of one who is accepted for true Pope See more of this in the saied place of Charity Maintayned 31. But now Good Sr. I beseech you reflect that in being so eager against vs you haue degraded or rather haue denyed your Bishops Priests and the whole Pretended mock-Hierarchy of the Protestant Church in England which hitherto hath bene ambitious to proue the Ordination and Succession of your Bishops from the Roman Church of which nevertheless you say Pag 77. N. 67. He that shall put together and maturely consider all the possible wayes of lapsing and nullifying a Priesthood in the Church of Rome I belieue will be very inclinable to thinke that it is an hundred to one that amongst an hundred seeming Priests there is not one true one Nay that it is not a thing very improbable that amongst those many millions which make vp the Râ—man Hierarchy there are not twenty trâ—â— If this be so if the fountaine be so troubled or rather none at all what certainty can there be in the streame which flowed from Rome to England if of many millyons among vs there are not tweÌ„ty true Priests if wee keepe a proportion with England to the whole world there must not be among you one true Bishop or Priest And was not your Book fitly approved expressly as
others might yet in himselfe and to himself be infallible but he could not be a Guide to others A man or a church that were invisible so that none could know how to repayre to it for direction could not be an infallible Guide and yet he might be himself infallible This I say is retorted For whosoever is infallible in him selfe is fit to be an infallible Guide to others per se loquendo and in actu primo and needs only that accidētall impediments bee removed as it happeneth in our case the Church being visible and spred over the whole world So that she can be hidden to no body but is furnished with all meanes of communicating her Doctrine to others Yourself and Protestants grant that the Church is a necessary introduction to Faith which she could not be if she were invisible or that none could know how to repayre to her for direction And then Protestants teaching that she is infallible in Fundamentall points it followes that she may be an infallible Guide in such points and in all other according to your owne inference And so I conclude that your difference of the Churches being infallible and an infallible Guide is vanished into nothing But enough of this Let vs now proceed to other Reasons proving the necessity of an infallible Guide 89. I proue the infallibility of the Church by confuting a Reason or similitude much vrged by our Adversaryes That to him who knowes the way a Guide is not necessary And therfore the Scripture being a plaine Rule for all necessary Articles of Faith no living Guide will be necessary 90. But this Argument is many wayes defectiue 1. We retort it Seing it hath bene proved that Scripture alone is not a sufficient Rule a Living Guide must be necessary Certainly if the whole Bible had bene put into severall mens hands without any precedent knowne Tradition Declaration or Ministery of the Church it would haue fallen out that in the most important Mysteryes of Christian Religion which now all are obliged to belieue for example The chiefest Articles of the Creed Sacraments c. scarcely any one would haue agreed with another and much more had it bene impossible for them by the sole evidence of Scripture to joyne in the same Idea or frame of a Church Suppose then the Bible had bene offered to some Vnderstanding Pagan wholy ignorant of Christian Religion and Doctrine do you thinke he would haue bene able to gather from the bare words of Scripture the same meaning or Articles which Christians now belieue by the help of Tradition instruction and preaching I say he would never have fallen vpon the same meaning of the words whether he did belieue them to be true or no as we see Protestants themselves cannot agree Which is a signe that the words only of Scripture do not evidently signify those Mysteryes which Christians belieue them to containe Otherwise every one who vnderstands the words would vnderstand the true sense as ordinarily we vnderstand the meaning of other writings wherin we see men do seldome disagree And the more we consider the force vse and necessity of Tradition the more we shall be constrained to ranke it among those things which are better knowen by wanting than we can apprehend by alwayes enjoying them If men did do things only by the Booke even in mechanicall arts or handy-crafts how different and vnlike works would every one take from the precepts learned only by reading and with how much study and difficulty would that be done and how different would they be both from one another and from those which artificers do now by custome and tradition worke with great ease and vniformity I doubt whether you would trust an apothecary taught only by his booke or pharmacopaeia without any master at all 91. Secondly If one know a way as perfectly as it is capable to be knowen but that indeed it is such as there cannot possibly be given any Rule or Direction how to find or walk in it without danger of errour such a knowledg of such a way would not be sufficient of itself but a guide would be necessary to sind and walke in it without danger Now we haue shewed not only that the Scripture containes not all points necessary to be believed for which therfor we stand in need of a guide but also that there is no certaine infallible Rule how to know certainly the meaning of those truths which it containes which we proved out of Protestants themselves and by the many hard and intricate Rules which they give for that purpose and by their perpetuall and irreconciliable differences which could not happen if they had any such cleare and certaine Rules wherin agreeing they must needs agree among themselves Que sunt eadem vni tertio sunt eadem inter se Therfore beside scripture which you compare to a way there must be a living Judg to guide vs in that way 92. Thirdly You teach That Scripture is a plaine way in this sense that although we cannot either by it or any other Meanes know what points in particulat be Fundamentall yet because all such Truths and many more are evident in Scripture whosoever knowes all that is evident shall besure to know all that is necessary or Fundamentall Now this very Doctrine shewes that Scripture alone cannot be a plaine and sufficient way For to know precisely and certainly all evident places of Scripture is impossible to many and of obligation to none as I declared elswhere and therfore the End which is to know all necessary points and can be attayned by this Meanes alone cannot be of obligation which to affirme is absurd as if one should say points necessary to be knowen are not necessary to be knowen By a Living Guide this difficulty is avoyded we being sure that the Church will not faile to propose in due tyme all that shall be necessary without imposing on mens Consciences heavy and vngrounded burthens 93. Fourthly There is a great and plaine disparity betweene the knowing of a way by our corporall eyes and finding out a Truth by our vnderstanding the eye of our soule Our senses are naturally necessarily and immoveably determined to their objects One who is supposed to know his way perfectly may Voluntarily take an other way but cannot therfore be sayd to mistake his owne It passes not so with our vnderstanding except in some prime principles of Reason evident of themselves In other points which either are elevated above the naturall forces of humane capacity or haue an appearance of being contrary to it or crosse our will or cary with them a repugnance to the naturall dictates and inclinations of flesh and bloud our vnderstanding is apt and ready to mistake or be misled as daily experience teaches and therfore stands in need of some assisting help and Authority believed to be infallible to strengthen and settle it against all encounters and temptations It is your owne Assertion Pag 329. N.
Maintayned it followes that they remaine still in force and proue this most necessary Truth Scripture alone is not a sufficient Rule of Faith but Tradition and a living Judg are necessary to determine Matters belonging to Faith and Religion And whosoever will take an other way will haue reason and God grant it proue not too late to tremble at those words of Uincent Lirinens contra Heres Cap 23. concerning Origen Dum parvi pendit antiquam Christianae Religionis simplicitatem dum Ecclesiasticas Traditiones Veterum magisteria contemnens quaedam Scripturarum capitula novo more interpretatur meruit vt de se quoque Ecclesiae Dei diceretur Si surrexerit in medio tui Propheta Et paulò post Non audies inquit verba Prophetae illius While he despises the ancient simplicity of Christian Religion while contemning Ecclesiasticall Traditions and magistery of the Ancient he interprets some places of Scripture in a new manner he deserved that it should be also sayd to the Church of him If there shall rise in middes of thee a Prophet And a litle after thou shalt not heare the words of that Prophet God grant that every one heare this wholsome advise The neglect therof alone hath beene cause of Schismes and heresyes in ancient Tymes and never more than in these lamentable dayes of ours 101. But because you do without end object that we cannot proue the infallibility of the Church without running round in a Circle proving the Church by Scripture and Scripture by the Church which is in effect to proue the Church by the Church and the Scripture by Scripture I will in the next Chapter endeavour to confute and shew the vanity of this so often repeated Objection CHAP V. IN WHAT MANNER AND ORDER WE PROVE THE INFALLIBILITY OF THE CHVRCH 1. I Say in what manner and order For we having already proved the Infallibility of the Church inremaines only now to declare how we can do it without falling into a Circle proving the Scripture by the Church and the Church by the Scripture which you object without end though if you be a man of any solid learning it is impossible you could be ignorant of the Answer which Catholike Writers giue to this common objectiō We grant that with different sorts of persons we must proceed in a different way If one belieue not the Church or Notes proprietyes and prerogatives belonging to Her and yet belieue Scripture to be the Word of God to such a man the Church may be proved by Scripture as contrarily to him who believes the Infallibility of the Church it may be demonstrated in vertue of Her Authority what Scripture is Canonicall and what is the true sense therof by informing him what Canon the Church receyves and what Interpretation she gives Thus in regard Protestants deny the Infallibility of the Church but pretend to belieue Scripture to be the Word of God to them we proue by Scripture the perpetuall Existence Vnity Authority Sanctity Propagation efficacy Infallibility and other Propertyes of the Church But speaking per se and ex natura rei the Church is proved independently of Scripture which we receyue from the Church as you grant which was in Being before the Scripture as all must yield and yet at that tyme there wanted not meanes to find the Church For none could haue believed the Scripture to be Infallible vnless first they believed the Writers to be infallible and many were converted to the true Church before they could belieue the Scripture as not extant at that tyme. So that all must grant that there be Meanes and Arguments wherby some men may gaine such credit as others may and ought vnder payne of damnation to belieue that they are Persons to be accepted as Messengers of God and Teachers of Divine Doctrine 2. Thus Moyses the Prophets our Saviour Christ the Apostles all Apostolicall men by whom God hath converted Nations to the true Faith and knowledg of Him did proue themselves true Preachers by many effectuall and most certaine inducements independently of the Old or New Testament yea S. Irenaeus relates as you expressly grant that some Nations were made Christians without any knowledg of the Scripture As therfore our Lord and Saviour Christ his Aposties and all they who afterward converted the world to Christian Religion proved themselves to be sent by God being verifyed of them He that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me by Miracles Sanctity of life Efficacy of Doctrine admirable repentance of sinners Chang of manners Conversion of all sorts of Persons of all Countryes through the whole world and this to a Faith Profession and Religion that proposes many Points as necessary to be believed aboue and seemingly contrary to humane Reason and against mens naturall inclinations togeather with the consideration of the constancy of Martyrs Abnegation of Confessours Purity of Uirgins Fortitude even of the youngest Age and weaker sexe and other admirable conspicuous Notes and strong inforcements to gaine an absolute and vndoubted assent to whatsoever they should propose in Matters concerning Faith and Religion So the Church of God by the like still continued Arguments and Notes of many great and manifest Miracles Sanctity Sufferings Uictory over all sorts of enemyes Conversion of Infidels all which Notes are dayly more and more conspicuous and convincing and shall be encreasing the longer the world shall last and it seemes God in his wisdome and Goodness hath blessed vs very particularly since the appearing of Luther and other moderne Heretikes for the greater confusion of them and glory of his Church and the same I say of the name Catholique which is continually more verifyed by accession of new Countreyes as also that of succession of Bishops from the Apostles particularly in the Sea of Rome Vnity Stability Perpetuity The Church I say by these and the like evident Arguments proves that she deserves credit as the first Doctours and Preachers did and consequently that her Doctrine and Definitions in Matters concerning Faith are certainly true And we may with all truth avouch that whosoever either denyes these Notes of Miracles and the rest to be found in the Catholique Roman Church or despises them as insufficient opens an inevitable way for Jewes Turks Gentils and all enemyes of Christian Religion to deny the truth therof which to them must be proved by such Arguments as are evidently found in the Roman Church and in no other Congregation Moreover as the Apostles and Apostolicall men were not believed to be Infallible because they wrote Scripture but contrarily their Writings or Scriptures are believed to be infallibly true because the Writers were preendued with Infallibility which Infallibility was proved by Miracles and other Arguments so the Church is believed infallible in force of the same Arguments abstracting from any proofe drawen from Scripture wherby we are uery sure not to run in a
Errour and embracing the contrary Fundamentall Truth and so cannot be sure that he hath true Repentance vnless he know in particular what Truths and Errours are Fundamentall And you deliver a very pernicious Errour in saying Pag 159 N. 52. whosoever dyes with Faith in Christ and contrition for all sinnes knowen and vnknowen in which heape all his si full Errours must be comprized can no more be hurt by any the most maâ—ignant and pestilent Errour then S. Paul by the Viper which he shooke of into the fire For if he remayne in his Errour about Fundamentall Points he wants the contrary actuall explicite belief of them which is supposed to be absolutely necessary to Salvation and so he will not cast that viper but it will cast him into the fire His Errour then which is supposed to be Fundamentall must be knowen to him and being knowen to be an Errour eo ipso it is rejected since our vnderstanding cannot assent to a knowen falshood and therfore cannot be comprized in the heape of sinfull Errours knowen and vnknowen but must be distinctly knowen and forsaken 22. How can you say that all Protestants agree touching the necessity of Repentance from dead works and Faith in Christ Iesus the Son of God and Savioâ—r of the worâ—d They may agree in the words or Grammaticall signification of them as any boy Turke Jew or Infidell could not but doe if they vnderstood the toung wherin those words were set downe But for the sense you could scarcely haue picked out Articles of greater moment and withall lesse agreed on among Protestants since every word discovers their irreconciliable differences concerning them and yet which is well to be observed they concerne points of practise and things absolutely necessary to salvation as we haue heard you confess and therfore an errour in them is damnable without all remedy 23. Let vs cast an eye vpon every word Repentance Protestants are not agreed wherin true Repentance consists as may be seene in Bellarmine de Poenit Lib 1. Chap 7. Lib. 2 Chap 4. and you in particular hold a Dòctrine different from the rest That Attrition alone is sufficient and that whether it be Attrition or Contrition it requires the extirpation of all vicious habits which you say is a thing of difficulty and tyme and cannot be performed in an instant and what sinner though repenting himself never so hartily at the houre of his death can be saved with this your kind of Repentance which at that houre is an impossible thing From dead works What will you vnderstand by dead works You know many chiefe Protestants hold all our best works to be of themselves not only dead but deadly sinnes and so Repentance of dead workes must signify Repentance that ever we haue done any good that we haue believed hoped and loved God and our neighbour obeyed our Parents kept any of the Commandements c And if you consider the person from whom they proceed in case he be predestinated no sin can hurt him whatsoever he doe To the former Repentance is needless to the latter fruitless How then do Protestants agree in the necessity of Repentance from dead workes or in Repentance itself For the second Point Faith in Christ Iesus the Son of God and Saviour of the world there is not one word wherin Protestants agree for the sense Faith You say A probable Faith is sufficient all others deny it professiing that Christian Faith necessary to salvation must be infalible and therfory you cannot be saved by your kind of Faith even by the doome of Protestants and in that respect all men who haue care of their soules ought to detest your Doctrine and Booke But do those other Protestants agree among themselves what Faith is necessary and sufficient for salvation They do not Some hold that Faith necessary and sufficient for Justification is that wherby one believes certainly that his sinnes are forgiven and that they are forgiven even by believing so according to which Doctrine what necessity can there be of Repentance Seing men are justifyed precisely by such a Faith and how then did you tell vs that Protestants agree in the necessity of Repentance from dead works Of which strang kind of Faith He whom you call the learned Grotius in his Discussio Riveriani Apologetici c Pag 2â—0 saith very truly Evangelij vox haec est Resipiscite Facite fructus dignos Poenetentiae adhortamini vosmetipsos per singulos dies donec hodie nominetur vt non obduretur quis ex vobis fallacia peccati Terra proferens spinas tribulos proxima est maledictioni cujus consummatioin combustionem At Riveti eique similium longè alia agendiratio remissa tibi sunt peccata Vnde id sciam Debes id credere At quo Argumento cum non remitantur omnibus Remissa sunt credentibus Et quid credentibus Remissa sibi esse peccata Mirus verò circulus Ita si istos sequimur remissio est causa credendi nihil enim credi debet factum esse nisi quod factum est contra credere causa remissionis quia conditio est requisita ad remissionem Haec verè sunt inextricabilia Faith in Christ Jesus the Son of God and Saviour of the world Who is ignorant how deeply Protestants disagree in these points You Socinians absolutely deny Christ Jesus to be the Son of God and Consubstantiall to his Father and Potter Pag 113.114 cites the doctrine of some whom he termes men of great learning and judgment that all who profess to loue and honour Iesus Christ are in the Visible Christian Church and by Catholikes to be reputed Brethren One of these men of great learning and judgment cited by Potter is Thomas Morton who in his Treatise of the Kingdome of Israel teaches that the Churches of Arians who denyed our Saviour Christ to be God are to be accounted the Church of God because they hold the Foundation of the Ghospell which is Faith in Iesus Christ the Son of God and saviour of the world Which are your very words Wherin appeares your hypocrisy in calling Christ the Son of God which men will conceaue you vnderstand as all good Christians do that he is consubstantiall to his Father wheras you meane only as the Arians did that he was the Son of God by conjunction of will or some such accidentall way aÌ„d so ProtestaÌ„ts do not agree in a point simply necessary Saviour of the world For SociniaÌ„s deny Christ to haue satisfyed for the sins of the world as may be seene in Volkelius Lib 4. Cap 2. and Cap 22. against other Protastants who in an other extreme hold that he alone satisfied so as no satisfaction is required at our hands though wee tell them that such our satisfaction depends on and taks all its valve from his You are an excellent advocate for Potter seing you differ from him in this Point which Pag 242. he calls that most important and
opinions which still makes it more and more evident that with Sectaryes evidence affects rather their will or fancy than their vnderstanding And here you ought in all reason to apply to the Ancient Fathers and learned Protestants agreeing with vs against their Brethren what you say Pag 40. and 41. N. 13. in favour of Protestants in generall to proue that there is no necessity of damning all those that are of contrary beliefe in these words The contrary belief may be about the sense of some place of Scripture which is ambiguous and with probability capable of diuerse senses and in such cases it is no mervaile and sure no sin if seuerall men go seuerall wayes Also the contrary beliefe may be concerning Points wherin Scripture may with so great probability be alledged on both sides which is a sure note of a Point not necessary that men of honest and vpright hearts true louers of God and of truth such as desire aboue all things to know Gods will and to do it may without any fault at all some goe one way and some another and some and those as good men as either of the former suspend their judgments Now whatsoever you judge of vs yet I hope you will not deny the Ancient Fathers and your owne Protestant Brethren to be so qualifyed as you describe men of honest and vpright hearts true lovers of God and the truth c And therfore seing they vnderstood the word of God as we doe you ought to absolue them yea and vs and conceiue that Luther had no necessary cause to forsake the whole Church for Points maintayned by men of so great quality in all kinds whose authority you cannot deny to be sufficient for making a doctrine probable and for devesting the contrary of certainty and therfore according to Hookers rule they ought to haue suspended their perswasion and they offended against God by troubling the whole Church 57. Neither can you object against the Fathers what you say against vs Pag 280. N. 66. that what may be enough for men in ignorance may be to knowing men not enough c For besides that it is I know not whether more ridiculous or impious to say the Fathers were men in ignorance and the whole Church in errour at least you will not deny but those Protestants who agree with vs are knowing men and haue all the meanes of knowing the truth which other Protestants haue and they being supposed by you I hope to be men of honest and vpright hearts may without any fault at all dissent from their Brethren according to your owne rule And since you must excuse them it were manifest injustice to condemne vs who defend the same doctrine with them 58. Fifthly It is a principle of nature that no private person much lesse a Community and least of all the whole Christian world should be deprived of that good name of which they were once in peaoeable and certaine possession without very cleare and convincing evidence Seing then even Protestants grant that for divers Ages the Church and the Roman Church in particular enjoyed the good Name and Thing of being Orthodox and Pure she cannot be deprived of them without evidence neither can probability or vncertainty be sufficient to forsake her Communion as noxious O of how different a mynd are our Novelists from the Ancient Doctours of Gods Church who against all Heretiks opposed the Tradition and Succession of the Bishops of Rome as Tertuilian the SS Irenaeus Epiphanius Optatus and Austine as Calvin confesses L. 4. Instit C. 3. and thinkes to saue himselfe with this Answer Sect. 3. Cum exrra contoversiam esset c. Seing it was vndoubtedly true that nothing was altered in doctrine from the beginning till that Age they did alledg that which was sufficient to overthrow all new errours namely that they were repugnant to the Doctrine which by vnanimous consent was constantly kept from the very tyme of the Apostles themselves But this Answer can serue only to shew that the Argument of the Fathers against Heretiks was plainly of no force at all For if the Tradition and succession of Bishops in the Church of Rome were not assured of the particular assistāce of the holy Ghost no argument could be taken to proue any doctrine true because it had been taught in that Sea in regard that without such assistance Errour might haue crept in and tradition might haue delivered a falshood Therfore the Fathers alledging the Doctrine of the Roman Church for a Rule to all other must suppose such an assistance without which their adversaryes might haue rejected the Tradition of that Sea with as much facility as the Tradition and Authority of any other And to say the Fathers grounded their Argument meerly vpon matter of fact that de facto the Church of Rome had delivered otherwise than those Heretiks held and thence had inferred the falshood of their Heresyes would haue beene directly petitio principij as if they had sayd The Church of Rome de facto without any certaine assistance of the Holy Ghost holds the contrary of that which you Heretiks teach but that which she holds is true therfore your Doctrine is false For this Minor that which she holds is true had been a meere begging of the Question without any proofe at all and had been no more in effect then if the Fathers had sayd The Doctrine of the Roman Church and our Doctrine which is the same with Hers is true because we suppose it to be true and therfore yours is false Wherfore we must giue glory to God and acknowledg that the Fathers believed that the Roman Church was assisted by the Holy Ghost above other Churches not to fall into errour in matters of Faith and Religion Howsoever let vs take what Calvin grants that at least the Church of Rome conserved the Truth and purity of Faith till the tyme of S. Austine that is between the fourth and fift Age after our Saviour Christ and Heretiks commonly grant that the Church of Rome was pure for the first fiue hundred yeares Now let any man of judgment consider whether it was probable or possible that immediatly after so great purity and Sanctity so huge a deluge of superstitions Idolatryes Heresyes and corruptions could haue flowed into the Church of Rome within the space of one hundred yeares that is till the tyme of S. Gregory the Great without being noted or spoken of or contradicted by any one Especially if we consider that other doctrines which both Protestants and Catholiks profess to be Heresyes were instantly observed impugned and condemned and to say that those only of which they hold vs guilty did passe without observation of any can be judged no better than a voluntary affected foolish fancy I beseech the Protestant Reader for the Eternall good of his owne soule to pause here a little and well ponder this Point Besides S. Gregory himselfe was a most holy learned and Zealous Pastour
in so much that in those respects his Feast is solemnly kept in the Grecian Church and all the Orthodox Bishops of the whole World never ceased to hold their Communion with Him his Predecessours and Successours which they neither would nor could haue done if they had discovered any one and much more if so many and so enormious Errours and corruptions had appeared in that Sea which was not any private obscure and as it were invisible Church but was ever visible and conspicuous and like a beacon to all Nations And therfore what she taught and professed could not be hidden vnder a bushell but being placed vpon a candlesticke did so shine to all that all must needs see it and either contradict which none did or approue it as they did And here we may alledg the saying of King James ad Peron Pag 388. Durst one but lightly corrupt the Faith approovea through the World It was easy for a child to discover the new Maister by his Novelty And the beliefe of truth being found all the Pastours of the whole World if need were were mooved and being moved did not rest till they had removed the ill and provided for the security of the sheepe of Christ How then is it possible that this heape of pretended Errours in the Roman Church could appeare without being discovered till Luther an Apostata from his Faith and Religious Order did sacrilegiously marry a vowed Nunne and in the middest of his shamefull carnall pleasures receaue revelations from the Divell as himselfe doth openly confess Wherfore we must conclude that these Points which Protestants would needs miscall Errours were indeed the Orthodox Doctrines of the Ancient Fathers and whole Church of all precedent Ages of the Possession of which Truths and good Name we ought not to be deprived without most certaine evidence which is impossible for any Heretike so much as pretend to doe with any modesty or shew of truth as I haue proved and will saie more hereafter 59. Sixthly Protestants can proue nothing against vs with evidence but by Scripture alone which is impossible for them to do as I haue shewed at large Chap 2. For seing words are capable of diverse senses it is impossible by the words alâ—â—e to convince that they are vnderstood in such or such a particular determinate sense and not in some other of which they are capable and what is possible for ought we know doth actually happen and Gods free Decrees in this matter of vsing words in some set meaning are not evident either in themselves or are notifyed to vs by any certaine Rule and therfore Protestants cannot with any evidence proue out of Scripture that our doctrine containes any Errour Fundamentall or not Fundamentall And it is well to be considered that the same Arguments which Protestants object against vs now were observed and answered by Catholike Divines before Protestants appeared to the world as they answered objections made against Christian Religion or Catholike Verityes by Pagans Turks Jewes and such Heretiks as Protestants detest and it is therby apparent that they did not dissemble difficultyes but did propose them with no less candor and sincerity than they answered them with truth learning and solidity They alone were the men who opposed themselves murum pro Domo Dei against all the enemyes of Christianity and the world believed that they gaue at that tyme as true solutions of those very objections of old Heretikes which now happen to be made by Protestants as they did to those difficultyes which were vrged against Christian Religion or against Catholique Verityes by old Heretiks whom even Protestants condemne Wherfore to come now and tell the world that the Answers of those Catholike Doctours against some few Points were not solid must needs breed a huge scandall against Christian Religion and Orthodox doctrine impugned by Pagans Jewes Turks and old condemned Heretiks Certaine it is that the enemyes of Christian Religion may object greater difficultyes against Christianity than any Heretike can invent against vs. It is therfore cleare that Protestants can haue no necessary or demonstratiue Argument to proue that the Church hath degenerated into any least falshood in matters concerning Faith and so we must conclude with these words of Hooker cited by Chilling Pag 311. As for the orders established sith equity and reason favour that which is in being till orderly judgment of decision be given against it it is but justice to exact of you and perversnes in you it should be to deny thervnto your willing Obedience Doth not every word of Hooker condemne Luther and his followers Sith equity and reason favour that which is in being and no orderly judgment of decision had been given against the orders which they found established in all Churches it was but justice to exact of them and worse then perversness in them to deny therunto willing obedience and a formall sin of Schisme by such disobedience to forsake the Communion of the whole Church 60. Seventhly As the Roman Church and all Churches of Her Communion could not be despoyled of the Possession they held of being accounted true and pure Churches so also the Pope Bishops and other Prelats and Pastours vnder Him could not without Sacriledge and injustice be disobeyed and deprived of the Right which they did peaceably possesse when Luther first appeared And for the Popes Primacy in particular it is acknowledged by Protestants to haue beene ancient and taught by Holy Fathers even with in the compass of yeares which Protestants admit for Orthodox and by some chief Protestants is held as a thing indifferent yea and profitable And I desire the Reader for his satisfaction in this behalfe to see Brierlyes Index Verbo Peters Primacy and Popes Primacy and turne to the places which there he shall find cited See also Charity Maintayned Pag 1. Cap 3. N. 19. of this matter If then this Point be maintayned by Ancient Fathers if believed and practised in those incorrupt Ages if acknowledged by Protestants for a thing profitable who will so much as pretend any evidence of Scripture or necessary demonstratiue reason against it And consequently who will not inferr that the separation of Protestants from the whole Church was causeless and so according to your owne Memorandum sinfull and Schismaticall 61. Let vs now come to examine your second evasion Pag 265. N. 31. The imposing vpon men vnder paine of Excommunication a necessity of professing knowne Errours and practising knowne corruptions is a sufficient and necessary cause of separation And that this is the cause which Protestants alledg to justify their separation from the Church of Rome But 62. First It is manifest that Protestants departed from the Roman Church voluntarily before they were forced by Excommunication or by any other meanes For they voluntarily professed a Faith contrary to that of the whole Church which most carefully and even sollicitously endeavoured by all meanes possible to reclaime them as appeares in the life
if it should containe more And yet even in this one point there could be agreement only in words among Protestants themselves or with vs. For in the sense I haue shewed elswere that Protestants disagree about Faith or what to belieue signifies and about the Attributes and perfections of the Deity and his Title of a Rewarder and about our Saviour Christ whether he be true God Whether he be to be adored Whether to be invoked Vid Volkel Lib 4. Cap 11. Whether reverence to be done to his sacred name Jesus And many other such points And then I pray what Communion could there be in a worship of God consisting only in words or in prating like parrots with infinite difference in the meaning of them and such a difference as one part holds the contrary to belieue damnable errours even in that one Point in which they must be supposed to agree as in a Forme common to all in Errours I say damnable as being repugnant to the Testimony of that God whom they pretend to worship Jewes and Turks belieue that God is and that he is a rewarder and Philosophers believed that there is a God and some of them in generall that he is a rewarder What a sight would it be to behold all these in one Church or Quire of Christians as agreeing in this generall Liturgy Of which Jewes Turks and Philosophers might say in your owne words Behold we propose a Forme of Liturgy which all sides hold to be lawfull Why then do you not joyne with vs If you answer them because they erre in other points they might reply what is that to the purpose as long as a necessity of professing those Errours is not imposed vpon you Or if it be not lawfull to communicate with men of different Faith and Religion though they do as it were abstract from that in which they differ how can Catholiks communicate with you or Protestants with one another or how can you say If you would propose a Forme of Liturgy which both sides hold lawfull and then they would not joyne with you in this Liturgy you might haue some colour then to say they renounce your Communion absolutely seing men of different faith cannot communicate togeather even in a Forme of Liturgy which both sides hold lawfull Or if they may you cannot refuse your Communion to Jewes and Turks in such a common Forme of Liturgy I therfore conclude that either you may communicate with Jewes Turkes c. or els you must confess that men of different faith cannot communicate in one Liturgy and publike worship of God whatsoever imaginary Forme be proposed and that you renounce our Communion absolutely which you deny against all Truth and your owne grounds and the common grounds of Christianity vnless you will make vp one Church of Jewes Turks Philosophers condemned Heretiks and whatsoever different Sects and therfore you cannot avoide the just imputation of Schisme 82. Morover we know you disliked diverse Points in the publike Service of the Protestants Church of England as the Mystery of the Blessed Trinity the Creed of S. Athanasius c Now I aske whether you could with a good conscience be present at the English Service or no If you say you could because your intention was carryed only to that which was good and true and not to those particulars which you did belieue to be false and errours why may not Protestants on their part be present at Masse and our publike worship of God And why do they alledg as a cause of their forsaking our externall communion in Liturgy the corruptions thereof Or why do you require a Forme of Liturgy which all sides hold lawfull if one may be present at some corrupt worship of God so that he intend to participate and communicate only in what is good And you cannot deny but that in our Liturgy there are many good and holy things out of which the ProtestaÌ„t church of EnglaÌ„d transcribed divers things into their booke of coÌ„mon prayer wherby they proue theÌ„selves true Heretiks or chusers accepting or rejecting what they please aÌ„d deceyving simple people as if there were small differeÌ„ce betwixt English Protestants and Catholiks Or how could you wickedly perswade Catholiks to go to Protestant Service which you know we belieue to containe Errours against our Faith and Religion and yet pretend that Protestants were obliged to forsake our Communion in Liturgy c. Or if they were not obliged to forsake vs how can they be excused from Schisme in doing so If you could not be present at the English Service which was the other part of my demand the reason must be because men of different Faith cannot communicate in one publike worship of God or Liturgy And the further reason of this because such a communicating or Communion were indeed a reall and practicall approbation of such a Communion and of such a Church stayned with Errours and consequently how can one Protestant communicate with an other whom they belieue to erre in points of Faith and yet thinke they are obliged not to communicate with vs Truly they cannot possibly giue any reason for this their proceeding and as I may say acception of persons the merit or demerite of the cause being the same For this Rule it is not lawfull for men of different Faith to communicate in Liturgy and publike worship of God is vniversally true and the contrary is only a ready way to breed confusion stisle all zeale overthrow Religion and is of its owne nature intrinsecè malum though there were no scandall danger of being perverted and the like as really alwayes there are Certainly if in any case a Catholike can be sayed to approue and participate with Heretikes as such it is by communion in the same Liturgy and divine offices and never more than when it happens to be with such Heretiks as did purposely reject the Liturgy of Catholiks as superstitions and corrupted and framed an other as proper to themselves which happened in England in direct opposition to our Liturgy to which proceeding of theirs hee in fact consents and gives approbation who refuseth not to be present at their Service so opposite â—o our Liturgy Whosoever considers the zeale of all Antiquity in abhorring the least shaddow of communion with Heretiks will haue just cause to lament the coldnesse of them who seeke by distinctions and speculations to induce a pernicious participation of justice with Iniquity a society between light and darkness an agreement with â—hrist and Belial a participation of the faithfull with the infidell as we haue heard our adversaryes confess every Errour against a Divine Truth sufficiently propounded to be Infidelity Holy Scripture Num 16.26 speaking of Core Dathan and Abiron saith Depart from the tabernacles of the impious men and touch you not those things which pertaine to them least you be enwrapped in their sin What then shall we say of those who will not depart I say not from the tabernacles
this Objection which he makes to himselfe were clearly impertinent and foolish if he could haue dispatched all by saying we erre in essentiall points which had been an evident and more than a just cause to justify their separation which yet appeares further by his Answer to the sayd Objection That to depart from a particular Church and namely from the Church of Rome in some Doctrines and practises there might be just and necessary cause though the Church of Rome wanted nothing neâ—essary to salvation And afterward in the next P. 76. speaking of the Church of Rome he saith expressly Her Communion we forsake not no more than the Body of Christ wherof we acknowledg the Church of Rome to be a member though corrupted And this cleares vs from the imputation of Schisme whose property it is to cut of from the Body of Christ and the hope of salvation the Church from which it separates But if she did erre in any one Fundamentall point by that very errour she would cease to be a member of the Body of Christ and should be cut of from the hope of salvation therfore she doth not erre in any Fundamentall Point P. 83. we were never disioyned from her the Church of Rome in those maine essentiall truths which giue her the name and essence of a Church You must then say that she erres not in any Fundamentall Point For the essence of a Church cannot consist with any such errour And that it may appeare how desirous he is that it should be believed Catholiks and Protestants not to differ in the essence of Religion he adds these words immediatly after those which we haue last cited wherof if the Mistaker doubt he may be better informed by some late Roman Catholique Writers One of France who hath purposely in a large Treatise proved as be believes the Hugonots and Catholikes of that Kingdome to be all of the same Church and Religion because of the truths agreed vpon by both And another of our Country as it is sayd who hath lately published a large Catalogue of learned Authors both Papists and Protestants who are all of the same mynd Thus you see he ransacks all kind of proofes to shew that Catholikes and Protestants differ not in the substance and essence of Faith and to that end cites for Catholike Writers those two who can be no Catholiks as Charity Maintayned Part 1. Chap 3. Pag 104. shewes the former in particular to be a plaine Heretike or rather Atheist Lucian-like jeasting at all Religion Pag 78. he saith we hope and thinke very well of all those Holy and devout soules which in former Ages lived and dyed in the Church of Rome Nay our Charity reaches further to all those at this day who in simplicity of heart belieue the Roman Religion and professe it To these words of the Doctour if we subsume But it were impossble that any can be saved even by Ignorance or any simplicity of heart if he erre in a Fundamentall point because as by every such errour a Church ceases to be a Church so every particular person ceases to be a member of the true Churchs the Conclusion will be that we do not erre in any Fundamentall point Nay Pag 79. he saith further we belieue it the Roman Religion safe that is by Gods great Mercy not damnable to some such as belieue what they professe But we belieue it not safe but very dangerous if not certainly damnable to such as profess it when they belieue or if their hearts were vpright and not perversely obstinate might belieue the contrary Behold we are not only in a possibility to be saved we are even safe vpon condition we belieue that Faith to be true which we professe and for which we haue suffered so long so great and so many losses in all kinds which if we did vndergoe for extetnall profession of that Faith which we do not inwardly belieue to betrue we should deserue rather to be begged for fooles than persecuted for our Religion In the meane tyme every Catholike hath this comfort that he is safe even by the confession of an Adversary if he be not a foolish dissembler which would be cause of damnation in a Protestant or any other Even the profession of a truth believed to be false is a sin But I returne to say it were impossible for any Roman Catholike to be safe vpon what condition soever if we erre in any one Fundamentall Article of Faith Here I must briefly note that wheras Dr. Potter in the words now alledged saith It is not damnable to some and then to declare who those some are adds such as belieue what they profess Chillingworth Pag 404. N. 29. leaves out the distinction or comma placed betweene some and such and puts it after damnable Thus Not damnable to some such as beleue what they professe which words may signify that it is not safe to all such as belieue what they professe which may much alter the sense of Potters words as the Reader will perceiue by comparing them 149. Now Sir who will not wonder at your so often declaiming against Charity Maintayned for saying Dr Potter taught that the Roman Church doth not erre in Fundamentall Points But what if your selfe say the same It is cleare you do so For wheras Charity Maintayned Part 1. Pag 15. N. 13. saith Since Dr. Potter will be forced to grant that there can be assigned no visible true Church of Christ distinct from the Church of Rome and such Churches as greed with her when Luther first appeared I desire him to declare whether it do not follow that she hath not erred Fundamentally because every such errour destroyes the nature and being of a Church and so our Saviour Christ should haue had no visible Church on Earth To these words which you thought fit to set downe very imperfectly you answer Pag 16 N. 20. In this manner I say in our sense of the word Fundamentall it does follow For if it be true that there was then no Church distinct from the Roman then it must be either because there was no Church at all which we deny or because the Roman Church was the whole Church which we also deny Or because she was a part of the whole which we grant And if she were a true Part of the Church then she retained those truths which were simply necessary to salvation and held no errours which were inevitably and vnpardonably destructiue of it For this is precisely necessary to constitute any man or any Church a member of the Church Catholique In our sense therfore of the word Fuudamentall I hope she erred not Fundamentally But in your sense of the word I feare she did That is she held some thing to be Divine Revelation which was not some thing not to be which was You haue spoken so clearly and fully in favour of the Roman Church and not only affirmed but proved that she did not erre in any Fundamentall
Point that I need not say one word to ponder your words or declare the force of them Pag 7. N. 3. You expressly approue the saying of Dr. Potter That both sides by the confession of both sides agree in more Points then are simply and indispensably necessary to salvation and differ only in such as are not precisely necessary Therfore do we inferr Catholikes belieue all that is necessary to salvation and more But we can never yield so much to you Pag. 85. N. 89. You confesse the Roman Church to be a Part of the Catholique Church And we haue heard you say Pag 16. N. 20. If she were a true Part of the Church then she retained those truths which were simply necessary to salvation and beld no errours which were inevitably and vnpardonably destructiue of it For this is precisely necessary to constitute any man or any Church a member of the Church Catholique This you say and make good the like inference which I made by occasion of Dr. Potters words that the Roman Church is a member of the Catholique and other like Assertions of his Pag 163. N. 56. You say From Scripture we collect our hope that the Truths she the Roman Church retaines and the practise of them may proue an Antiaote to her against the errours which she maintaines in such persons as in simplicity of hart follow this Absalon These Points of Christianity which haue in them the nature of Antidots against the poyson of all sins and errors the Church of Rome though otherwise much corrupted still retaines therfore we hope she erreh not Fundamentally but still remaines a Part of the Church But this can be no warrant to vs to thinke with her in all things Seeing the very same Scripture which puts vs in hope she errs not Fundamentally marke how you professe to learne even out of Scripture that we erre not Fundamentally assures vs that in many things and those of great moment she errs very grievously And these errors though to them that belieue them we hope they will not be pernicious yet the professing of them against conscience could not but bring to vs certaine damnation Therefore the Points in which we differ from Protestants being acknowledged not to be Fundamentall and in other Points professing nothing against our conscience we are safe by your owne Confession If we did not belieue as we profess we were no Roman Catholikes In the same place you say expressly De facto we hope the Roman Church does not erre in Fundamentalls yea you say Lin 33. Perhaps she does not erre damnably the contrary wherof you affirme so often You example of Absalon was very ill applyed to the Roman Church which did not rebell from you but you against the whole Church the Mother of all Christians more sacrilegiously than Absalon behaved himselfe wickedly to wards his father Pag 404. N. 29. you approue Dr. Potters saying Pag 79. which I cited aboue that the Roman Religion is safe that is not damnable to some such as beleeue what they professe And in the same place you say we may hope that she retaines those Truths which are simply absolutely and indispensably necessary to salvatioâ— Pag 401. N. 27 We approue those Fundamentall and simply necessary Truths which you retaine by which some good soules among you may be saved but abhorre your many superstitions and heresyes The Truths you retaine are good and as we hope sufficient to bring good ignorant soules among you to salvation yet are not to be sought for in the conventi le of Papists If any soule may be saved in our Religion it is cleare that we hold not any Fundamentall errour with which no soule can be saved Pag 277. N. 61. you say The simple defect of some Truths prositable only and not simply necessary may consist with salvation Seing therfore you haue so often confessed that we erre not in Fundamentall Points our errours in some Truths profitable only and not fundamentall may consist with salvation How then do you say to Catholiks Pag 401. N. 27. As for our freeing you from damnable Herely and yielding you salvation neither He Dr. Potter nor any other Protestant is guilty of it Pag 219. N. 50. speaking of Protestants you say They doe not disser at all â—n Matters of Faith if you take the word in the highest sense and mâ—ane by Matters of Faith such Doctrines as are adsolutely necessary to salvation to be believed or not to be dâ—â—believed Now you know well that in Points of greatest moment which Catholiks belieue against some Protestants other Protestants stand for vs against their pretended Brethren and therfore you must either say that we belieue all such Doctrines as are absolutely necessary to salvation or that many learned Protestants do not belieue all such Doctrines and consequently are not capable of Salvation Pag Pag 269. N. 45. A man may possibly leaue some opinion or practise of a Church formerly common to himselfe and others and continue still a member of that Church Provided that what he forsakes be not one af those things wherin the essence of the Church consists For this cause you say that although Protestants left the externall Communion of the Church yet they left not the Church because they left her not in any thing essentiall to a Church as Fundamentall Points are Therfore you suppose the Church before Luther did not erre in any Fundamentall Article Otherwise you had left her that is you had disagreed from her in a Fundamentall Point Pag 272. N. 52. and Pag 283. N. 73. You deny that Protestants divided themselves from the Church absolutely and simply in all things that is ceased to be a member of it which still supposes that the Church before Luther believed all essentiall and Fundamentall Points which Protestants also pretend to hold and for that cause say they left not the Church Pag 272. N. 52. You say In the reason of our separation from the externall Communion of your Church you are mistaken For it was not so much because she your Church as because your Churches externall Communion was corrupted and needed Reformation But if we erred in Fundamentall Points Protestants must haue forsaken vs chiefly for that reason that our Church was corrupted with Fundamentall errours of Faith Therfore you grant that we erred not in any such necessary Points Pag 401. N. 26. You confess that Dr Potter saith indeed that our not cutting of your Church from the Body of Christ and hope of salvation frees vs from the imputation of Schisme Pag 133. N. 12. You say expressly By Confession of both sides we agree in much more than is simply and indispensably necessary to salvation It is well you make so open a Confession that we belieue much more than is simply necessary to salvation But as I sayd aboue we will not because we cannot yield so much to you And here I must aske againe How you could say Pag 401. N. 27. As for
you would spend tyme in such toyes The maine Question being whether the Church or Scripture be Judge or Rule of Controversyes in Faith Charity Maintayned N. 19. proves that the Scripture cannot be such a Judge because it is not intelligible to all that is to vnlearned persons as the Church is and therfore inferrs that not the Scripture but the Church must be Judge And is not that a good consequence Besides you say that Charity Maintayned in the beginning of his N. 19. which you impugne vndertooke only to proue that Scripture is not a Judge Therfore you grant that he proved all that he vndertooke in that place though he added by way of supererogation that the Church must be that Judge which was the chiefe thing he intended to proue in this Chapter and which followes evidently of the Scriptures not being Judge it being supposed that either the Scripture or Church must be A grievous Crime in Charity Maintayned to proue a pertinent and most important Truth 31. The words of the Apostle Rom 14.5 Let every one abound in his owne sense are prophanely applyed by you as if every one might follow his owne sense for the interpretation of Scripture which delivers Divine Revelations and you confess that to disbelieue objects so revealed is damnable in it selfe S. Paul speakes of things indifferent and which at that tyme were neither commanded not absolutly forbidden to the Jewes in the Old Law which then was mortua but not mortifera dead but not deadly 32. Your N. 104. till the N. 106. inclusiuè haue beene answered at large You suppose N. 108. and N. 113. that to find out the true Church every one must be able to examine the succession of visible Professours of the same doctrine through all Ages or els to examine the Church by the conformity of her doctrine with the doctrine of the first Age as you speak N. 108. Both which we deny and affirme that the Catholique Church of every Age carryes along with her so many conspicuous Notes of the true Church and all her enemies appeare with so many Markes of Errour that no man who seriously thinkes of his Eternall Happyness can chuse but clearly see the difference and behold a way so cleare ita vt stulti non errent per eam This answer is solid and evident for vs. But you who teach that we receaue Scripture from the vniversall Tradition of the Churches of all Ages and not for the Testimony of the present Church how will you enable all men to examine whether the Scripture and much more whether every Booke and parcell of Scripture hath bene delivered by all Churches even till you arriue to the Primitiue Church and by it include the Apostles Wherin we may vse these your owne words N. 108. This tryall of necessity requires a great sufficiency of knowledge of the monuments of Christian Antiquity which no vnlearned can haue because he that hath it cannot be vnlearned You say also How shall he an vnlearned man possibly be able to know whether the Church of Rome hath had a perpetuall Succession of visible Professors which held always the same doctrine which they now hold without holding any thing to the contrary vnless he hath first examined what was the doctrine of the Church in the first Age what in the second and so forth And whether this be not a more difficult worke than to stay at the first Age and to examine the Church by the conformity of Her Doctrine with the Doctrine of the first Age every man of ordinary vnderstanding may Iudge But I would know how one can examine the Church by the conformity of her Doctrine with the Doctrine of the first Age except by the monuments and Tradition of all the Ages which intervene betwixt the first Age and his which no vnlearned can doe because he that can doe it cannot be vnlearned And so it seemes you will haue vnlearned men despaire of all meanes to find the true Faith Church and salvation Will you haue them passe as it were persaltum immediately from this present Age to the first or Primitiue Age of the Church without the helpe of writings or other meanes of the middle Ages What remedy therfore can there be to overcome these difficultyes except an infallible beliefe that the Vniversall Church of every Age cannot erre And that otherwise all will be brought to vncertaintyes euery man of ordinary vnderstanding may Judge 32. For Answer to your N. 110. till the 122. inclusiuè I say No man indued with reason will deny the vse of Reason even in matters belonging to Faith But we deny that Reason is not to yield to Authority when assisted by Gods Grace it hath once shewed vs some infallible Guide and Authority to which all must submitt and so as it were cease to be different particular men and be in a manner one vnderstanding guided by one visible infallible Judge for want wherof Protestants remaine irreconciliably divided into as many opinions as they are men of different vnderstanding and will yea one man is divided from himself as he alters his Opinions Reason then may dispose or manuduct vs to Faith but the Object into which Faith is resolved is the Divine Revelation at which Reason did point and to which it must submitt Otherwise Faith were but Opinion which even Dr Potter affirmes to be a good consequence And it should not be the Gift of God but the Act of it should be produced by the force of nature and the Habit be an acquired and not infused Habit which is evidently against Scripture as I proved in the Introduction I wonder how you dare alledge Scripture as you do as if the places which you alledg N. 116. for trying of Spirits did signify that we are to try them by humane Reason and not by the Doctrine of the Church and Holy Scripture interpreted by Her But in this you shew yourselfe to haue drunke the very quintessence of Socinianisme 33. Charity Maintayned had Reason to say N. 29. What good states men would they be who should ideate or fancy such a Commonwealth as these men haue framed to themselves a Church And N. 22. What confusion to the Church what danger to the Commonwealth this denyall of the Authority of the Church may bring I leaue to the consideration of any judicious indifferent man For if it be free for every one to thinke as he pleases who will hinder him from vttering his thoughts in matters which he conceives belong to Faith and to conforme his practise to his thoughts and words And by that meanes sowe discord in the Church and sedition in the Commonwealth And therfore what you say N. 122. that men only interpret for themselves is not alwaies true but their selfe interpretation may indeed redound to the hurt of other both Private ād Publicke Persons and Communityes if their thoughts chance to pitch vpon some object which may be cause of mischiefe 34. Howsoever N. 118.
You seeke to shift off the place of S. Austine which Charity Maintayned cited N. 21. You see that you goe about to overtrow all Authority of Scripture and that every mans mynd may be to himselfe a rule what he is to allow or disallow in every Scripture Lib 32. cont Faust Yet it is certaine by Reason and Experience of Protestants and other old and moderne Sectaryes that to take away a Living Judge is to make every mans mynd a Rule what he is to allow or disallow in every Scripture For the Circle of which you speake here and in many other places I haue shewed hertofore at large that no such thing can with any probability be objected against vs but most clearly and vnanswerably against your Brethren 35. It seemes you were well furnished with idle tyme when N. 122. it should be 121. you could at large examine and seriously exagitate these words of Charity Maintayned Part 1. Pag 66. N. 22. Behold what goodly safe Propounders of Faith arise in place of Gods vniversall visible Church which must yield to a single Preacher a neighbour a man himselfe if he can read or at least haue eares to heare Scripture read Which words good safe Propounders of Faith who sees not to be spoken ironicè out of just indignation that men should reject the determination of Pope or Church as Potter expressly does in that Page 247. and then send vs to the Declaration of a particular Preacher of a Neighbour c Surely the Doctor having rejected the Pope and Church should haue proposed some better and safer meanes and did ill to propound such as every one sees are fallible and in no wise safe But I shall be guilty of your fault if I stay longer vpon such trifles 36. Your N. 123. hath beene answered already and in your N. 124. you do not so much impugne Charity Maintayned as Dr Potter cited by Him Part 1. Pag 67. N. 23. in these words Dr Potter acknowledgeth that besides the Law there was a Living Iudge in the Iewish Church indued with an absolutly infallible direction in cases of moment as all Points belonging to Divine Faith are The question then must be not whether Dr Potter spoke true but whether Charity Maintayned cited him truly as I am sure He did For the Doctor Edit 2. Pag 25. Lin 2. a fine writes thus The High Priest in cases of moment had a certaine Priviledge from errour if he consulted the divine Oracle by the judgement of Vrim or by the breast-plate of judgement wherin were Vrim and Thummim wherby he had an absolutly infallible direction Thus He. And that you may see he speakes of such an infallibility as He denyes to the Pope and Church Marke his words immediatly following If any such promise from God to assist the Pope could be produced his decisions might then justly passe for Oracles without examination Till then his words with vs weigh so much as his reasons no more Where you see He grants to the high Priest so great and so large a Priviledge that if any such promise from God to assist the Pope could be produced his decisions might then justly passe for Oracles without examination Which is a large grant and from which every good Christian may well inferr that if such an infallibility were granted to the high Priest and Synagogue to the Jewes much more ought we to yield an absolute infallibility to the Vicar and Church of Christ 37 But N. 124. You answer or Object First Where was that infallible direction in the Iewish Church when they should haue received Christ for their Messias and refused him Or perhaps this was not a case of moment 38. Answer Possibili posito in esse nullum sequitur absurdum Nor is it any wonder that what was prophecyed should be performed Perpetuity was not promised to the Old Law of which it is sayd Ezech 7.26 The Law shall perish from the Priest but to the Church of Christ of which it is sayd the gates of hell shall not prevaile against her The Church is free and signifyed by Sara wife to Abraham the Synagogue was signifyed by Agar the bond woman Gal 4.24 Agar was sent away and repudiated not Sara The Church is vniversall in respect of all that shall be saved because none can be saved out of it as even Calvin expressly grants Instit Lib 4. Cap 1. N. 4. Extra ejus gremium nulla est speranda peccatorum remissio nec vlla salus But diverse were saved out of the Synagogue The Synagogue was not perfect Heb 7.19 The Law brought nothing to perfection And in this sense the ceremonyes and Sacraments of the Synagogue are called weake and poore elements Gal. 4.9 But the Church of Christ is perfect and the Sacraments of the New Law not only signify but giue Grace For which cause S. Austine in Psalm 73. saith The Sacraments of the new Testament giue salvation the Sacraments of the Old promised a Saviour The Synagogue contayned a shadow of good things to come Heb 10.1 The Church hath the light itselfe that is Christ John 1.9 No wonder then if the shaddow faile when the fullness of light appeares and no wonder if our Saviour being present at the Councell of the Jewes and having so preached the Gospell that after some houres he sayd Consummatum est It is consummate No wonder I say if the Jewes might be permitted at that tyme to erre S. Leo Serm 6. de Passion saith Tu verò he speakes to Caiphas a quo jam alienabatur haec dignitas ipse tibi es executor opprobrij ad manifestandum finem veteris instituti pertinet eadem diruptio Sacerdotij He speakes of Caiphas tearing his garments Contrarily you may remember that the Priests being consulted by Herod about the Messias did giue a true answer concerning him Yet good Sir you may reflect that the Point for which the high Priest directly and immediatly sayd He hath blasphemed was not because he then expressly pretended to be the Messias but because he made himselfe the Son of God vpon which Caiphas did rend his garments and afterward they accused him before Pilate because he made himselfe the Son of God and do not you with other Socinians hold it to be indeed a blasphemy to say that our Saviour Christ is the Son of God and consubstantiall to the Eternall Father and do they not in their Catechisme expressly say that it is against Scripture and rectam rationem right reason Which wicked heresy of yours being once supposed to be true the high Priest may easily be excused from errour and blasphemy and so by this example you in particular ought not to proue that he erred in a case of moment but that he spoke truth Neither can you blame him for taking the words of our Saviour that he was the Son of God in a litterall sense seing all orthodoxe Believers vnderstand it so as indeed it is so to be vnderstood And in the meane
say that in S. Irenaeus his tyme all the Churches were at an agreement about the Fundamentalls of Faith which vnity was a good assurance that what they so agreed in came from some one common fountaine and they had no other than Apostolique Preaching How I say could you speake thus your doctrine considered that we cannot know what Points are Fundamentall and so we cannot know whether Churches be at an agreement in them and consequently cannot from such an agreement in Fundamentalls haue a good assurance that what they so agreed in came from the fountaine of Apostolique Preaching Every where you are found clearly to contradict yourselfe 59. In answer to your N. 149.150.151.152.153 I will first set downe the words of Charity Maintayned and then answer what you object Thus saith Charity Maintayned Part 1. Pag 71. N. 25. The doctrine of Protestants is destructiue of itselfe For either they haue certaine and infallible meanes not to erre in interpreting Scripture or they haue not If not then the Scripture to them cannot be a sufficiēt ground for infallible Faith nor a meete Judge of Controversyes If they haue certaine infallible meanes and so cannot erre in their interterpretations of Scripture then they are able with infallibility to heare examine and determine all Controversyes of Faith and so they may be and are Judges of Controversyes although they vse the Scripture as a Rule And thus against their owne doctrine they constitute another Judge of Controversyes beside Scripture alone 60. Against this discourse you object with great pompe of words If we Catholiks haue certaine and infallible meanes for the choyse of the Church then we are able with infallibility to determine all Controversyes of Faith although we pretend to make the Church our Guide And then say you N. 149. We constitute another Iudge of Controversyes besides the Church alone nay every one of vs makes himselfe a chooser of his owne Religion and of his owne sense of the Churches decrees which very thing we so highly condemne in Protestants 61. Answer we haue certaine meanes to belieue with an infallible Faith that the Catholique Church is an infallible Judge of controversyes as we haue proved hertofore at large in diverse Occasions But then to say that by this meanes i.e. by believing the Church to be the Judge of controversyes we are able of our selves with infallibility to determine all controversyes and do constitute another Iudge of controversyes besides the Church alone I am so farr from vnderstanding it that to me it seemes no better than non-sense as a man who in some cause makes choyse of a Iudge whom he believes to be just wise and in every respect fit for such an office cannot be sayd to constitute another judge beside him of whom he makes choise nor to make himselfe Iudge Do you not teach that the Church proposes to vs Canonicall Scripture and that Scripture is the sole Rule of Faith wherby all controversyes are determined and yet you will not inferr from thence that the Church is a Rule of Faith wherby all controversyes are determined and not Scripture alone It is you who here N. 153 say for the latter part of this inference that every one makes himselfe judg of controversyes we acknowledge and embrace it We do make ourselves Iudges of controuersyes And this you must grant not only for the choyse of your Religion but for the sense of Scripture and consequently for determining all controversyes of Faith and so you are Iudges of controversyes as Ch Ma inferred wheras Catholikes in all controversyes hold themselves obliged to follow the determination of the Church and not of their owne vnderstanding as you doe How farr we may and do make vse of Reason in matters of Religion we haue declared aboue And even yourselfe Pag 376. N. 56. speaking of Scripture say Propose me any thing out of this Booke and require whether I belieue it or not and seeme it never so incomprehensible to humane reason I will subscribe with hand and hart as knowing no demonstration can be stronger than this God hath sayd so therfore it is true Which words though they cannot be spoken sincerely and with consequence by you who resolue Faith into humane probable Arguments of reason yet they shew that even in reason Reason ought to submitt to Authority We haue also shewed the difference between the Scripture which is always the same and the Decrees of the Church which in all occasions can clearly declare Her meaning if any difficulty occurre about her former Decrees or Definitions 62. But I pray where did Charity Maintayned frame this Argument which you N. 150. terme a transparent fallacy Protestants haue no meanes to interpret without errour obscure and ambiguons places of Scripture therfore plaine places of Scripture cannot be to them a sufficient ground of Faith You know there neither is nor can be any Question at all whether plaine places be not plaine to those to whom they are plaine nor whether such plaine places may not be a sufficient ground of Faith in respect of persons to whom and Matters wherin they are plaine The Point is and you know it to be so whether scripture be plaine in all Points necessary to be believed which we deny and you often affirme but can never be able to proue and I haue demonstrated that even those Texts which you pretend to be most plaine and expresly alledge for instances of such plainesse are not such but containe difficulty if we respect the sense and not the bare words which may be plaine to Pagans Jewes Turkes and to all who vnderstand the language in which Scripture was written And therfore you do not satisfy your owne Demand wherin you speake thus to Charity maintayned If you aske me how I can be sure that I know the true meaning of these plaine places I aske you againe can you be sure that you vnderstand what I or any man else sayes They that heard our Saviour and the Apostles preach could they haue sufficient assurance that they vnderstood at any tyme what they would haue them doe If not to what end did they heare them If they could why may not we be as well assured that we vnderstand sufficiently what we conceiue plaine in their writings 63. Answer If he who speakes be not sufficiently vnderstood he may be asked and he who askes may be satisfyed by a further declaration of the speaker which holds not in Scripture as I am forced often to repeate Besides when things are spoken the present Tyme Place Argument and other circumstances may giue much more light than when they are barely written devested of such helpes In which case if a word can be found but once in the whole Bible to signify such or such a thing perhaps it may breede a doubt whether in other places it be not so taken of which no doubt would haue beene made in case that in all places it had the same signification Yea we see
ignorance or Nescience I deny That he is ignorant by a positiue errour or ignorance prauae dispositionis I grant and so when you assume He who knowes not the truth is ignorant of it you must distinguish according to the double sense of ignorance which hath beene declared and not speake with such confusion This same distinction I find in Dr. Potter Pag 243. where speaking of some Fundamentall Articles of Faith he hath these words These are so absolutly necessary to all Christians for attaining the end of our Faith that is the salvation of our soules that a Christian may loose himselfe not only by a positiue erring in them or denying of them but by a pure ignorance or nescience or not knowing of them Where you see he distinguishes between error and not knowing and therfore one may be ignorant of what another believes and yet not erre against it or disbelieue it As it is one thing not to be hot and another to be hold Now Charity Maintayned expressly distinguishes between pure ignorance and errour and therfore you do very ill first to confound them and then vpon that affected mistake frame your Objections The same equivocation you haue Pag 25. where you make a shewe of great subtility but indeed the Reader will finde nothing but vanity as I shewed in that place 14. You say to Charity Maintayned If your meaning were they were not ignorant that each other held these opinions or of the sense of the opinions which they held c I answer that this saying of yours is nothing to the purpose For though de facto Protestants are not ignorant what opinion other Protestants hold and therfore their disagreement is more patent and not only against the opinions by whomsoever they might chance to be held but also against opinions knowne to be defended by them whom they will needs call Brethren Yet indeed it is meerly accidentall and in no wise necessary to our present purpose that one Protestant should be conscious or know that he differs in opinion from another For if it were revealed to some in the Indyes that Christ is God and Saviour of the world and he did assent to that truth while another in Europe did dissent from the like Revelation sufficiently proposed this second doth truly disbelieue what the former believes no lesse than if he had knowne that the other believes it And therfore Charity Maintayned said Protestants disbelieue and wittixgly and willingly oppose what others do belieué to be testifyed by the word of God without saying vnnecessarily that they disbelieue what they know others belieue because as I sayd this knowledge is not necessary for our present purpose concerning the disagreement of Protestants in matters of Faith Much lesse to the purpose yea directly against syncerity is your saying That if their vnderstandings be not convinced they are excusable if they do not belieue Seing Charity Maintayned did speake of objects sufficiently proposed as revealed by God which are his expresse words in this very number which you impugne 15. In your N. 19.20.21.23 nothing occurrs of difficulty which hath not beene answered elswhere And you falsify Ch. Ma. when N. 20. you say he concludes that there is nodifference betweene errours in Points Fundamentall and not Fundamentall wheras he expressly saith in his N. 3. which here you answer and N. 4. that they do not differ in this that both of them are against Gods Revelation and damnable which yourselfe often grant yet you know that in other respects he puts a maine difference betweene them even in the number next precedent and declares the matter at large Surely this is no good dealing 16. In your N. 22. you still voluntarily mistake the state of the Question though Charity Maintayned had stated it very clearly N. 3. as we haue seene i. e. that when we treate whether errour excludes salvation we speake of Points sufficiently proposed as revealed by God and not in case of invincible ignorance want of instruction or the like This being presupposed Charity Maintayned N. 4. saith thus Dr Potter forgetting to what purpose Protestants make vse of their distinction doth sinally overthrow it and yields as much as we can desire Speakinge Pag 211. of that measure and quantity of Faith without which none can be saved he saith It is enough to belieue some things by a virtuall Faith or by a generall and as it were a negatiue Faith wherby they are not denyed or contradicted Now our question is in case that divine truth although not Fundamentall be denyed and contradicted and therfore even according to Him all such denyall excludes salvation Thus Charity Maintayned whose words you cite very imperfectly in this manner It is enough by Dr Potters confession to belieue some things negatively i.e. not to deny them therfore all denyall of any divine Truth excludes salvation Thus say you omitting these very next words of Charity Maintayned now our question is in case that divine Truths although not Fundamentall be denyed and contradicted And therfore even according to Him all such denyall excludes salvation And that Dr Potter alwayes supposes a sufficient Proposition before one can be obliged not to deny or contradict those Points of which he speakes is evident because one could not be obliged vnder sin not to contradict them if they be not sufficiently proposed Which Proposition he requires Universally in matters of Faith And in this very place he saith There is a certaine measure and quantity of Faith without which none can be saved but every thing revealed belongs not to this measure And then he adds the a foresayd words It is enough to belieue some things by a virtuall Faith or by a negatiue Faith wherby they are not denyed Where it appeares that as no man is obliged to belieue those Fundamentall Points without the beliefe wherof none can be saved vnless they be sufficiently proposed so none can be obliged not to contradict Points not Fundamentall if they want sufficient Proposall And this is yet further demonstrated by Charity Maintayned who immediatly after the words of which you take notice and cite as His though imperfectly saith thus After He Dr Potter speakes more plainly in the very next Pag 212. It is true whatsoever is revealed in Scripture or propounded by the Church out of Scripture is in some sense Fundamentall in regard of the divine Authority of God and his word by which it is recommended that is such as may not be denyed or contradicted without infidelity such as every Christian is bound with humility and reverence to belieue whensoever the knowledge therof is offered to him marke whensoever the knowledg therof is offered to him And further Pag 250. he saith where the revealed will or word of God is sufficiently propounded obserue sufficiently propounded there he that opposeth is convinced of errour and he who is thus conuinced is an Heretike and Heresy is a worke of the flesh which excludeth from heauen Galat 5.20.21
different natures yea there should be as many formall differences of Faith as there are different Points which men belieue according to different capacities or instruction c And therfore we must say that vnity in Faith doth not depend vpon Points Fundamentall but vpon Gods Revelation equally or vnequally proposed And Protestants pretending an vnity only by reason of their agreement in Fundamentall Points do indeed induce as great a multiplicity of Faith as there is multitude of different objects which are believed by them and since they disagree in things equally revealed by God it is evident that they forsake the very formall motiue of Faith which is Gods Revelation and consequently loose all Faith and vnity therein In which words we see Charity Maintayned speakes of that vnity of Faith which is taken from the Formall Object and which to oppose is the proper cause of damnation for erring persons in all Objects whether they be great or small like or vnlike of themselves 21 Now in this discourse what false Propositions what confusion can you finde You say Who knowes not that the Essence of all Habits and therfore of Faith among the rest is taken from their Act and their Object If the Habit be generall from the Act and Object in generall if the Habit bespecall from the Act and Object inspeciall Then for the motiue to a thing that it cannot be of the essence of the thing to which is moves who can doubt that knowes that a motiue is an efficient cause and the efficient is alwaies extrinsecall to the effect 22. Answer To what purpose talk you of the Essence of Habits seing the Discourse of Cha Ma concerned only the Act of Faith whereby we belieue some Truths because they are revealed by God and vpon this ground he proved that every contrary Act is damnable and a grievous sinne which cannot be verifyed of Habits which of themselves are not sinnes Now who can deny that an Act of Faith takes its nature Essence and specification as Philosophers speak from the Divine Revelation And I hope you will not tell vs that the Essence of all Acts is taken from their Act and their Object as if the Essence of the Act were derived from the Act. Dr Potter Pag 139. saith expressly The formall Object or reason of Faith the chiefe Motiue mark motiue the first and farthest Principle into which it resolves is only divine Revelation Obserue that Divine Revelation only is the first and last into which Faith resolves without mentioning that it is taken from the Act yea excluding it by the word only only Divine Revelation And Pag 143. he saieth The chiefe Principle and ground on which Faith rests and for which it firmely assents vnto those truths which the Church propounds is divine Revelation made in Scripture Nothing less then this nothing but this can erect or qualify an Act of supernaturall Faith which must be absotutely vndoubted and certaine and without this Faith is but opinion or perswasion or at the most acquired humane beleef Which words not only declare the Essence of Divine Faith but also express how by that Essence it is distinguished from other things and in particular from humane Faith perswasion and opinion as Cha Ma saied the vnity and distinction of every thing followeth the Nature and Essence therof Thus you see that Cha Ma spoke truth in affirming that the Nature and Being of Faith is taken from the Motiue for which a man believes and that Potter vseth the word Motiue directly in this sense and to this purpose 23. What doe you meane in saying If the habit be generall the essence is taken from the Act and Object in generall If the Habit be speciall from the Act and Obiect in speciall I am very sure that every Habit and Act exists in particular though their Obiects be never so generall and so the Acts to which Habits incline are particular Acts producible by those Habits and nothing taken only in generall can be producible 24. Cha. Ma. and Dr. Potter saied that our motiue to belieue is the Divine Revelation and which is more you affirme the same heere That Gods Revelation is an equall Motiue to induce vs to belieue all Objects revealed by him And yet you strangely object That the Motiue to a thing cannot be of the essence of the thing to which it moves who can doubt that knowes that a motiue is an efficient cause and the efficient is alwaies extrinsecall to the effect 25. Answer First The motiue or Formall Object of which we speak is not an efficient cause in respect of the Habit or Act of Faith but if you will reduce it to one of the foure kinds of Causes which are commonly assigned some will saie it is Causa formalis extrinseca and perhaps others will say that you belieue the motiue to a thing to be an efficient cause because Aristotle defines the efficient cause to be Principium motus and you confound motum and motivum or motion and motiue Secondly Though a motiue were an efficient Cause your Argument That it cannot be of the essence of the thing to which it moves because the efficient cause is is alwayes extrinsecall to the effect is of no moment For no man ever dreamed that the motiue or formall Object of Faith is of the intrinsecall essence of the act therof as Genus and Differentia are intrinsecall to the Species or Materia and Forma are intrinsecall Composito physico but that the act takes its essence from the formall Motiue or object and essentially is or includes a Referēce to it as every creature essentially hath a Relation to God who is the Prime and supreme efficient cause of all things and consequently as you say extrinsecall to them For this cause C Ma saied not that the Motiue to belieue is the essence of Faith but that the essence or nature of Faith is taken from the Motiue for which a man believes Which words signify a difference not an identity seing a thing is not saied to take from itself but to be its owne Essence Do not yourselfe say that the Essence of all Habits is taken from their Act and from their Object And yet I suppose you will not grant that the Act and Object are of the Essence of Habits as intrinsecall to them Especially seing naturall Habits are essiciently produced by Acts and Acts by Habits even supernaturall Acts as by their efficient causes And therfore according to your words are always extrinsecall to the effect And so you answer and confute your owne selfe 26. You doubt what Cha ma did meane by these words Gods Revelation is alike for all Objects But his meaning is cleare that Gods Revelation is the same whether it be applyed to Points Fundamentall or not Fundamentall and can no more be disbelieved in one kind of these Objects than in another it being no lesse impossible that the Supreme Verity and Veracity can testify a falshood in
infallibility to Fundamentalls I say the Major of this Syllogisme on which all depends is deceitfull For though he that grants the Church infallible in Fundamentalls and ascribes to the Apostles the infallible guidance of the Spirit in a more high and absolute manner than to any since them limits not the Apostles infallibility to Fundamentalls by only and precisely granting the Church infallible in Fundamentalls and ascribing to the Apostles the guidance of the Spirit in a more high manner yet he may doe it by some other way and in particular by the meanes of which now we speake that is by restraining the selfe same words of Scripture which without distinction speak of the Apostles and the Church to Fundamentall Points in respect of the Church and not in order to the Apostles and this voluntarily without proofe from any other evident Text of Scripture which yet in the Grounds of Protestants were necessary in this case As also by proving the fallibility of the Church by Arguments which must involue the Apostles no lesse than the Church as even now I haue proved Howsoever that you are not a faithfull interpreter of Dr Potter appeares by your saying He out of curtesy grants you that those words the Spirit shall lead you into all Truth and shall abide with you for ever though in their high and most absolute sense they agree only to the Apostles yet in a conditionall limited moderate secondary sense they may be vnderstood of the Church For where doth Dr Potter say that these words agree to the Church in a conditionall sense Which conditionall sense you interpret N. 34. to singify if the Church adhere to the direction of the Apostles and so far as she doth adhere to it which overthrowes the doctrine of Potter and other Protestants that the Church is absolutely infallible and cannot erre in Fundamentall Points in which yet she might erre if the promise of our Saviour were only conditionall and it would giue no more to the Church than to any private person who is sure not to erre not only in Fundamentall but even in vnfundamentall Points as far as he adheres to the direction of the Apostles And by this reflection the difficulty against Dr Potter and you growes to be greater how the same words of Scripture are vnderstood both of the Apostles and of the Church absolutely for Points Fundamentall and only conditionally for the Church in Points not Fundamentall And how will you be able to proue this various acception of the same words in order to the same Church and not only in respect of the Apostles and the Church by any other evident Text of Scripture You say to Cha Ma Do you not blush for shame at this Sophistry The Doctour sayes which yet I know he never intended no more was promised in this place therfore he sayes no more was promised Are there not other places besides this And may not that be promised in other places which is not promised in this 41. Answer If the Doctour spoke beyond or contrary to what he intended I cannot wonder since whosoever defends a bad cause is subject to write contradictions which yet men intend no to doe You say there may be other places besides this I answer It is neither in your nor in any mans power to alledg any place which may not be interpreted and restrayned as you limit this of which we speake Certainly the Doctour being to proue the absolute infallibility of the Apostles was much to blame for alledging ineffectuall Texts if He could haue found better Indeed I find in his Pag 152. these words That other promise of Christs being with his Matth 28.20 vnto the end of the world is properly meant as some Ancients truly giue the sense of his comfortable ayde and assistance supporting the weaknesse of his Apostles and their Successours in their Ministery or preaching of Christ But it may well be also applyed as it is by others (a) 5. Leo Scrm 10 de Nativ Cap 5. to the Church vniversall Which is ever in such manner assisted by the good Spirit that it never totally falls from Christ But as in the other Texts so in this the Question returnes to be asked by what evident place of Scripture can you or He proue that this Text speakes of an vniversall Assistance for the Apostles and only a limited direction for the Church seeing Potter grants that it may well be also applyed as it is by others to the Church vniversall You could say N. 30. Shew where it is written that all the Decrees of the Church are divinely inspired and the Controversy will be at an end And much more may we say to you Shew some evidenr Text of Scripture that the Apostles are infallible in all Points Fundamentall and not Fundamentall the Church only in Fundamentalls or that any Text of Scripture makes any such distinction I say much more may we say Shew c. Because the truth Authority and infallibility of the Church is proved independently of Scripture as the infallibility of the Apostles was proved before any Scripture of the New Testament was written But you who hold that we can belieue nothing as a matter of Faith vnlesse it be evidently set downe in Scripture are obliged either to proue the difference of infallibility in the Apostles and the Church by some evident Text of Scripture or els you cannot be assured of it as a thing revealed by God You see how hard you were pressed and therfore were forced to giue this noble answer That Dr. Potter out of courtesy grants vs that those words The spirit shall lead you into all truth and shall abide with you for ever in a conditionall limited moderate secondary sense may be vnderstood of the Church But I haue shewed that you misalledge the Doctour who sayes expressly that promise was directly and primarily made to the Apostles and is verifyed in the Church vniversall Now I aske whether or no it be true that this promise is verifyed in the Church If it be true that is if God hath revealed it to be so one would thinke it were no point of ceremony or courtesy but a matter of necessity to acknowledge so much It seemes you thinke the Doctour was of your disposition who Pag 69. N. 47. say to Charity Maintayned You might haue met with an answerer that would not haue suffered you to haue sayd so much Truth togeather but to me it is sufficient that it is nothing to the purpose But I goe on and say if it be not true nor revealed that those words are verifyed of the Church how durst Potter affirme that they were verifyed of Her Is it lawfull to add to the old and coyne new Revelations Doth not Potter say Pag 222. to add to it he speakes of the Creed is high presumption almost as great as to detract from it 42. You say The Apostles must be ledd into all such truths as was requisite to make them the
Churches Foundaâ—ions Now such they could not be without freedome from etrour in all those things which they delivered constantly is certaine revealed truths And to proue that the Apostles are the Foundation of the Church you alledge N. 30 S. Paul saying Built vpon the Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Fphes 2.20 43. I reply First The Church must be led into such an all as is necessary to judge of controversyes which yourself Pag 35. N. 7. confess to require an vniversall infallibility Secondly seing Scripture containes not all points necessary to be believed the Church must be indued with infallibility for such points Otherwise we could haue no certainty concerning them And if once you grant her infallible for Points not evideÌ„t in Scripture you cannot deny her an Infallibility derived not from evidence of Scripture but from the assistance of the Holy Ghost And as you say the Apostles were vniversally infallible because the Church was builded on them so every Christian is builded vpon the Church and for that cause she must be vniversally infallible Thirdly We are not saied to be builded vpon the writings of the Apostles or Scripture but vpon the Apostles who were the Foundation of the Church before they wrote any thing by their preaching and verbum traditum Tradition So that indeed this Text Ephes 2.20 makes for vs and proves that we are builded on the vnwritten word and might haue beene so though no Scripture had bene written Fourthly you still mistake the Question and seeke diversions but never goe about to proue by some evident Text of Scripture that the infallibility of the Apostles may not be limited to Fundamentall Points as your restraine to such Points the generall Promises of infallibility made to the Church in holy Scripture and limit the word Foundation to the writings of the Apostles which I haue shewed to be a manifestly vntrue limitation S. Paul 1. Tim 3. avouches the Church to be the Pillar and Ground of Truth and yet you deny Her to be vniversally infallible How then can you proue by the word Foundation which cansignify no more than the pillar and Ground of Truth that the Apostles cannot erre in any Point but the Church may Yea even to make this place Ephes 2.20 cleare and convincing in favour of the Apostles the authority of the Church is necessary and the letter alone will not suffice if you will regard the doctrine or authority of some learned prime Protestant And therfore Fiftly you haue cause to reslect on what Cornelius a Lapide vpon this place saieth That Beza and not he alone interprets vpon the Foundation of the Apostles to signify Christ who is the Foundation of the Apostles Prophets and the whole Church and he Beza saieth that it is Antichristian to put an other foundation For no man can put an other Foundation beside that which is put Iesus Christ. If this exposition be admitted the saied Text Ephes 2.20 will not proue that the Apostles but only that our Saviour the Foundation of the Apostles and of the Church was infallible nor will the stability of a Foundation expressed in this place of Scripture belong to the Apostles And albeit indeed this interpretation be not true yet to you it ought not to seeme evidently false being the Opinion of so great a Rabby as also because it is very agreable to the manner which Potestants hold in impugning Catholik Doctrine when for example they argue The Scripture saieth We haue an Advocate Jesus Christ Therfore Saynts cannot be our Advocates though in an infinitly lower degree than our Saviour is Especially if we reflect that it is saied of our Saviour with a Negatiue or exclusiue particle No man can put an other Foundation wheras in those words we haue an Advocate there is only an affirmation that Christ is our Advocate but no negation that any other is Other examples might be given in this kind if this were a place for it We do therfore grant that the Apostles were Foundations of the Church and that they received Revelations immediately from our Saviour and the Church from them so that as I saied she depends on them not they on Her and you wrong vs while N. 30. in your first Sillogisme you speak in such manner as the Reader will conceiue that we make the infallibility of the Church equall in all respects to that of the Apostles the contrary wherof all Catholikes belieue and proue I omit to obserue that you take occasion to descant vpon these words as well which are not found in Charity Maintayned though for the thing itselfe he might haue vsed them Your N. 31. and 32. haue beene already confuted at large and the words of Dr. Stapleton considered and defended with small credit to Dr. Potter and you 44 You say N. 34. he teaches the promises of Infallibility made to the Apostles to be verifyed in the Church but not in so absolute a manner Now what is opposed to absolute but limited or restrained 45. Answer first our Question is not what Dr. Potter saied but what he did or could proue and in particular I say it cannot be proved by any evident Text of Scripture that the words which he confesses to be verifyed in the Church are limited to fundamentall points in respect of her and not as they are referred to the Apostles Secondly wheras you say what is opposed to absolute but limited or restrained I reply absolute may be taken in diverse senses according to the matter argument or subject to which it is applied and therfore though some tyme it may be opposed to limited yet not alwayes Do not you N. 33. oppose to absolute a conditionall moderate secondary sense which being epithetons much different one from an other giue vs to vnderstand that you are too resolute in asking what is opposed to but limited seing more things than one may be opposed to it What Logician will not tell you that in Logick not Limited but Relatiue is opposed to absolute And we may also say that the infallibility of the Apostles was absolute that is independent and the infallibility of the Church dependent as the Effect depends on the Cause and so is not absolute in that sense but hath a Relation of dependance to the infallibility of the Apostles as to its Cause which particular Relation the Apostles haue not to the Church 46. You say also N. 34. that though it were supposed that God had obliged himself by promise to giue his Apostles infallibility only in things necessary to salvation nevertheless it is vtterly inconsequent that he gaue them no more or that we can haue no assurance of any farther assistance that he gaue them Especially when he himself both by his word and by his works hath assured vs that he did assist them farther 47. Answer I know not to what purpose or vpon what occasion you vtter these words Only I am sure that they containe both a manifest falshood and contradiction to
things indifferent that is neither commanded nor prohibited But as for the thing it self S. Austine never speaks of particular Churches as we haue heard him speak of the vniversall both in this place of which we treate and in other sentences alledged by Ch. Ma. in the saied N. 16. and the Promises of our Saviour were made to the vniversall Church Yea you confess that S. Austine speaking even in this place of those things which he dislikes saies that they were neither contained in Scripture decreed by Councells nor corroborated by the custome of the vniversall Church which words declare that the Scripture Generall Councells the Custome of the vniversall Church and consequently the Church of God can never be saied to approue any such presumptions as S. Austine calls them which he never saieth of particular Churches And therfore when you say that superstitions may in tyme take such deepe roote as to pass for vniversall customes of the Church you contradict S. Austine and that the world may see you doe it plainely and as I may say in actu signato and not only exercito but to his face you take his owne words Consuetudine vniversae Ecclesiae roboratum corroborated by the custome of the vniversall Church and say that some such superstition had not already even in S. Austines tyme which circumstance of tyme is to be noted to shew how directly you contradict him prevailed so farre as to be corroborated by the custome of the vniversall Church who can doubt that considers that the practise of Communicating Infants had even then got the credit and Authority not oily of an vniuersall custome but also of an Apostolique Tradition And which is more in other places of your Booke you ascribe this very thing which you call superstition not only to S. Austines tyme but even to himself though both imputations be most false and it is strang that through your whole Book you do not so much as once offer any one proofe thereof And yet to shew how causelesly and intemperately you declaime against the Church of S. Austines tyme that you might discredit every Church of every Age and so of all Ages though Protestants commonly hold that the Church was pure in S. Austines tyme you confess he saieth they were not against Faith and only vnprofitable burdens But of things that are apertissimè contra Fidem sanamque doctrinam he expresly declares that the truth is to be professed Yea even when there is question not whether a vaine thing be to be permitted but whether a good thing ought to be omitted he saieth Si aliquorum infirmitas ita impediat vt majora studiosoruÌ„ lucra sperand a sint quam calumniatorum detrimenta metuenda sine dubitatione faciend um est Now if you be so indiscretely zealous as to say that no inconvenient things are in any case to be tolerated not for feare to offend or for humane respects but for avoiding greater evill you impugne our Saviour and not his Church only who Matth. 13.29.30 forbids the servants to gather vp the cockle least perhaps gathering vp the cockle you may root vp the wheat also togeather with it Suffer both to grow vntill the harvest And you do very wickedly in comparing the observing this advise of our Blessed Saviour to that which He reprehended in the Scribes and Pharises for teaching and not only tolerating perforce vaine things as the washing of pots c Did not the Apostles tolerate for some tyme even after they had received the holy Ghost some Observances of the Mosaicall Law till they became to be deadly as if without them the law of Christ had not beene sufficient to salvation for Gentills converted to Christian Religion And for that cause S. Paule saieth stand and be not holden in againe with the joake of servitude Galat. 5. V. 1. and therefore you do absurdly apply against the Church of Christ those words of the Apostle especially seing you confess that those foolish observances which S. Austine dislikes were not against Faith as he saieth expressly that it cannot be found quomodo contra Fidem sint and which is the maine point that they were never decreed by any generall Councell or practised or approved by the vniversall Church which is only our Question Yourself say Pag 301. N. 101. that S. Austine supposed that the publique service of God wherein men are to communicate is vnpolluted and no vnlawfull thing practised in their Communion which was so true of their Communion that the Donatists who separated did not deny it And towards the end of the same number you say The Donatists separated from the whole world of Christians vnited in one Communion professing the same Faith serving God after the same manner which was a very great Argument that they could not haue just cause to leaue them according to that of Terâ—ullian variasse debuerat error Ecclesiarum quod autem apud multos vnum est non est erratum sed traditum Therefore you must either free the Church of that tyme from errour or the Donatists from Schisme I haue beene longer in answering this Objection in regard it containes hiddenly more Socinian venome against the Church than appeares at the first sight 58. And now it will be easy to answer your N. 48. wherin you speak thus to Charity Maintayned But you will say not with standing all this S. Austin here warrants vs that the Church can never either approue or dissemble or practise any thing against Faith or good life and so long you may rest securely vpon it What Do you now grant that S. Austine here warrants vs that the Church can never either approue c. Which is the very thing which even now you objected against Cha Ma as if S. Austine had neither saied so not that it could be deduced from what he saied You goe forward and say Yea but S. Austine tells vs in the same place that the Church may tolerate humane presumptions and vaine superstitions and those vrged more severely than the commandements of God and whether superstition be a sinne or no I appeale to our Saviours words before cited and to the concent of your Schoolmen Besides if we consider it right we shall finde that the Church is not truly saied only to tolerate these things but rather that a part and a farre greater publiquely avowed and practised them and vrged them vpon others with great violence and that continued still a part of the Church Now why the whole Church might not continue the Church and yet doe so as well as a part of the Church might continue a part of it and yet do so I desire you to informe me 59. Answer you seeke to deceyue the ignorant by leading them into a misvnderstanding of the word tolerate as if it did signify a voluntary permission of a thing when it is in our power to hinder it where as the Church doth only tolerate abuses in that sense as our Saviour teaches that
be sure that they attaine the true sense of Scripture vnless they first know what points in particular be Fundamentall because in other they may erte as they say the Church may Besides it hath bene shewed that in the Principles of Protestants it cannot be convinced that Scripture is infallible except only in fundamentall Points and so men cannot rely on Scripture vnless first they be sure what points be Fundamentall Neither is there the same reason for vnderstanding not the bare words but the sense of Scripture intended by the Holy Ghost as there is for vnderstanding som plain place in Aristotle or conceyving some evident naturall truths which are connaturall to humane reason and are not capable of different senses as the words of Scripture are Which may be proved even by the Examples which you bring as evident as I haue shewed hertofore that they are not so Neither can any Protestants learne them from Scripture alone with such certainty as is necessary to an Act of Faith which according to all good Christians must be infallible and therfore you say only Protestants may be certain enough of the Truth and certainty of one of the places which you alledg as evident but your enough is not enough for the absolute certainty of Divine Faith And therfore Charity Maintayned did you no wrong at all and much less a palpable injury as you speak in saying you cannot with certainty learne of Scripture fundamentall Points of Faith which is manifest by the examples which you say are Truths Fundamentall because they are necessary parts of the Gospell and yet it is evident that Protestents cannot agree about their meaning as I haue demonstrated about these sentences God is and is a rewarder of them that seek him that there is no salvation but by Faith in Christ That by Repentance and Faith in Christ Remission of sinnes may be obtained That there shall be a Resurrection of the Body Which are the Instances which here you giue as Truths both Fundamentall and evident 63. Your N. 51. hath bene answered in severall occasions And all that you say N. 52. is directly nothing to the purpose but passes from objects considered in themselves wherof Protestants confess some to be Fundamentall others not to accidentall circumstances as if Protestants did differ not in Fundamentall points or in assigning a particular Catalogue of them but only in accidentall circumstances of ignorance repentance and the like But of this I haue spoken hertofore as also I haue confuted your similitude about a medicine of twenty ingredients c which therfore I think needless to repeete 64. Your N. 53. I haue answered in diverse places Your N. 54. is nothing but a long digression to which the particular Answer would require a whole Booke or volume directly against the scope of this Work which is only to treate in generall of the Church and Scripture and you know very well that Catholik Writers haue fully answered all your Demands as also you know how many doubts might be proposed to Protestants abovt Scripture which to them is the only rule of Faith if I had a mynd to digrees Your N. 55.56.57.58.59.60.61.62.63.64.65 haue bene answered at large 95. I desire the Reader to peruse the N. 21. of Charity Maintayned and he will finde that you make an argument as his which is nothing like his discourse He saieth not as you N. 66. cited him in these words We may not depart from the Church absolutely and in all things Therfore we may not depart fram it in any thing which you call an Argument à dicto simpliciter ad dictum secundum quid The Argument of Ch. Ma. is Dr. Potter teacheth Pag 75. That there neither was nor can be any just cause to depart from the Church of Christ no more than from Christ himself But if the Church could erre in any points of Faith they may and must forsake her in those and if such errours should fall out to be concerning the Churches Lyturgie Sacraments c. they must leaue her externall Communion which being essentiall to the Church they must divide themselves from her in that which isessentiall to make one a member of the same Church which I hope is more than to argue ad dictum secundum quid For what greater separation can there be from the Church than in that which is essentiall to make one be vnited to her Your saying that a man may leaue the vice of his friend or brother and yet not leaue his friend or brother is impertinent seing vices are not essentiall to men as externall Communion is to make one a member of the Church 66. You object what Dr. Potter saieth of the Catholique Church P. 75. he extends presently after to euery true though never so corrupted part of it And why do you not conclude from hence that no particular Church according to his judgement can fall into any ertour and call this a demonstration too 67. Answer If the Doctour will not contradict himself according to his judgment the Catholique Church cannot fall into errour against any Truth necessary to salvation as a particular Church may and therefore this may but that can never be forsaken or if he will affirme that no particular Church can be forsaken he must say that no such Church can erre in any point necessary to salvation For if she did so erre her Communion must be forsaken and I haue shewed externall Communion to be essentiall to the members of the Church Whereby is answered your N. 67. where you grant that we may not cease to be of the Church nor forsake it absolutely and totally no more than Christ himselfe Since therefore they absolutely forsake the Church who disagree from Her in profession of Faith and divide themselves from her externall Communion you must grant that they can no more doe so than they can divide themselves from Christ I know not to what purpose or vpon what occasion you say to Ch Ma In other places you confes his doctrine to be that even the Catholique Church may erre in Points not fundamentall which you do not pretend that he ever imputed to Christ himself 68. Your manner of alledging the words of Charity Maintayned in your N. 68. gives me still occasion to wish you had alledged them as you found them You make Charity Maintayned speak thus Dr. Potter either contradicts himself or els must grant the Church infallible because he saies if we did not differ from the Roman we could not agree with the Catholique which saying supposes the Catholique Church cannot erre And then you say with your vsuall modesty This Argument to giue it the right name is an obscure and intriate nothing I confess that reading the words which you impute to Charity Maintayned I found difficulty to penetrate the force of his Argument But the words of Charity Main are these If saith Dr. Potter we did not dissent in some opinions from the present Roman Church we could
with them if they kept their station vnto the very end of their lives Behold an if a condition If they kept their station which if it be in their free will not to doe as your if supposes it to be then according to your Divinity they might faile and all Promise made to them proue ineffectuall neither can we be certaine that de facto they haue not failed and fallen into errour in their preaching and writing Scripture Nay do you not teach and labour to proue that the Apostles even after the receiving of the Holy Spirit which you confess was promised to abide with them for ever that is say you for their whole life and that they should never want the spirits assistance vnto the very end of their lives did erre in a command clearely revealed to them about preaching the Gospell to Gentills How then was that Promise performed if it were absolute And if only conditionall you grant no more to them than to any other neither can we be certaine that they haue not erred in other things as you say they erred in that Your alledging some Texts to proue that the word ever may be taken for the whole time of a mans life is not to any purpose vnless you had also proved that it is so vnderstood in the place of which we speak Joan 14.16 And seing even by this example the same words are capable of different senses and that Protestants cannot possibly giue any Rule which Text is to be interpreted by what others we must conclude that Scripture alone cannot be a perfect Rule of Faith 84. But now in your N. 75. we find threates that you will work wonders and that we may not be so much overseene as to pass them without due reflection you say to Charity Maintayned This will seeme strang newes to you at first hearing and not farre from a prodigy But it is not strang that heere you doe that which you doe in divers other occasions that is impeach the infallibility of the Apostles and consequently depriue their preaching and writing and all Christian Religion of all certainty though I grant it to be very strang and a prodigy that notwithstanding this you will pretend to be a Christian and that your Book is approved by and published among Christians For besides what I noted even now about your conditionall promise made to the Apostles If they kept theyr station heere you declare clearely and at large that the Promise of which S. John speakes was appropriated to the Apostles as you speak and that it is not absolute but as you expressly say most clearly and expressly conditionall being both in the words before restrained to those only that loue God and keepe his commandements And in the words after flatly denyed to all whom the scriptures stile by the name of the world that is as the very Antithesis giues vs plainly to vnderstand to all wicked and wordly men Behold the place entire as it is set downe in your owne Bible If you loue me keepe my commandements and I will ask my Father and he shall giue you an other Paracleâ—e that he may abide with your for ever even the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receiue And then speaking of the Pope you say We can haue no certainty that the Spirit of Truth is promised to him but vpon supposall that he performes the condition where vnto the promise of the Spirit of Truth is expressly limited viz. That he loue God and keep his commandements and of this not knowing the Popes heart we can haue no certainty at all Doth not this interpretation and discourse clearly declare that we can haue no certainty of the Apostles infallibility because not knowing their hearts we can haue no certainty at all that when they preached and wrote they did loue God and keepe his commandements Besides in the doctrine of Protestants we cannot be certaine by certainty of Faith that the Apostles kept the commandemeÌ„ts except first we belieue Scripture and yet we caÌ„not belieue Scripture itself except first we belieue the Apostles to be infallible and to haue kept that condition of keeping the commandements Therfore we must belieue Scripture before we belieue the Apostles to keepe the commandements and be infallible and we must belieue the Apostles to be infallible and to keepe the commandements before we belieue Scripture which is an inextricable Circle and a contradiction implying finally that we belieue Scripture for it self which you confess no wise man will affirme and that the belief of Scripture should be cause of the belief of Scripture and the same thing be necessary to the first production of it self Wherefore you must either renounce this Interpretation of a conditionall Promise made yea as you expresly affirme Appropriated to the Apostles or els bid Scripture and all Christianity fare well And so you cannot haue certainty of this particular that God requires the saied condition of loue and Obedience 85. But to answer directly I say you miscite the words of S. John while you distinguish only by a comma If you loue me keepe my commandements from the following words And I will ask my Father and he shall giue you an other Paraclete whereas both in our and in the Protestants English Bible they are distinct Sections or Verses thus N. 15 If you loue me keep my commandements And then N. 16. And I will aâ—k the Father and he will giue you an other Paraelete Where it appeares that the condition is not If you loue me I will ask the Father and he will giue you c. as you set it downe and there vpon affirme that the Promise is restrayned to those only that loue God and keep his commandements but the condition or rather Assirmation or Consequence is this If you loue me keep my commandements And so the sense is very plain and perfect and the condition is terminated in the same N. 15. And that these words If you loue me keep my commandements render a perfect sense is manifest of it self and by the like Texts of Scripture as in the same Evangelist Cap. 15. N. 14. You are my friends if you doe the things that I command you and V. 10. If you keep my precepts you shall abide in my Loue. As contrarily the holy Ghost is promised absolutely in this C 14. V. 26. The Paraclete the Holy Ghost shall teach you all things And in the argument prefixed before this Chapter in the Protestants English Bible printed Ann 1622. it is sayed Christ N. 15. requireth loue and Obedience 16. Promiseth the Holy Ghost the comforter without expressing any dependance of the saied Promise V. 15. vpon loue and obedience V. 16. As also Joan 16.13 which Text is alledged both by Charity Maintayned and Dr. Potter it is saied without any condition when he the Spirit of Truth commeth he shall teach you all Truth And Matth 16.18 these words The gates of Hell shall not prevaile against her which both
necessary that in all ages there be Apostles Prophets and Evangelists and that de facto there be not such as you say there are not wheras Catholiques are certaine the Church shall never be destitute of such degrees and therfore Protestants alone must be driven to that blasphemous absurdity that God hath not performed his promise And I may turne against yourself your owne argument thus Our Saviour Promised to his Church Apostles Prophets and Evangelists as he Promised Pastors and Doctors But he promised Pastors and Doctors for ever as Protestants teach Therfore he promised Apostles Prophets and Evangelists for ever And then further seing our Saviour promised infallibility to those of whom S. Paul speakes as you suppose we must firmely belieue that they who shall remaine to the worlds end are indued with infallibility 99. But heere it is to be considered that some things are essentiall to the Being of Apostolate or Office of an Apostle other are accidentall without which it may consist Of the essence of Apostolate is power of Order and Jurisdiction in vtroque foro as Divines speak and infallibility for matters belonging to Faith without which men could not be obliged to belieue them with an Act of divine Faith which requires absolute certainty Of the other kind I haue spoken and given examples aboue and I hope you will not deny power of excommunicating because it is not as I may saie seconded with a visible delivering to Satan the person so censured nor that Christians receiue not the holy Ghost because they see no firy toungs nor speak all languages If then power of Jurisdiction ād Governing be essētially required to the office of an Apostle which power I hope you will not deny to remayne in the Church and that accordingly even the chief Protestant Saravia as is related by Adamus Contzen in Cap 16. Matth V. 29. Quest 1. N. 6. teaches that the essence of Apostolate requires Officium praedicandi administrandi Sacramenta potestatem gubernandi it cannot be denyed but that Apostolate or Apostolicall office for the substance is and shall remaine in the Church to the worlds end And therfore you spoke vnadvisedly to say no more in saying to Charity Maintayned For shame you will not say that you haue now and in all Ages since Christ haue had Apostles c and yet as a Divine ought to haue done you goe not about to informe vs in what the Essence of Apostleship consists For if you will haue it consist in this That they were chosen by our Saviour immediatly you must exclude S. Matthias from the Apostolicall Colledg and if you respect only the name of Apostle you must increase the number of twelue by adding Epaphroditus Philip 2.25 and Andronicus and Junia Rom 16.7 who are saied to be noble among the Apostles 100. But doubtless we cannot pretend to haue Prophets Yes we can and with good reason Your Uolkelius Lib 6. Cap 5. saieth Prophetarum nomine in istis locis 1. Cor 12.28 and Ephes 4.11 non veteres illos Prophetas sed Apostolorum Socios intelligimus qui eodem tempore in Ecclesia floruerunt quorum officium erat futura praedicere vel ocultiora quaedam Religionis Christianae misteria apud populum proponere So hee though it be strang that he should say immediatly after that this office hath ceased seing none pretend more than our new Reformers to declare so deepe and hidden mysteryes of Religion that they were vnknowne to the whole Church before Luther And that by Prophets in this place are vnderstood interpreters of Scripture is the Judgment of S. Hierom S. Ambrose or whosoever is the Author of that work S. Anselm Haymo S. Thomas and others in so much as Suarez disp 8. de Fide sect 3. N. 4.5 not only affirmes that the interpretation of Scripture is called Prophecy but that perhaps in the New Testament this acception is more frequent than that other of revealing hidden things And beside what we haue cited out of Volkelius this is also the interpretation of the Protestant Marloratus 1. Cor 12. V. 28. and in this place Ephes 4.11 I need not repeete what I saied that there are never wanting in Gods Church holy men indued with the Gift of Prophecy Neither are they only Evangelists who wrote the Gospells but as Uolkelius saieth loco citato Evangelistae illi fuisse videntur qui Apostolis salutiferum sempiternae faelicitatis nuntium terrarum Orbi afferentibus adhaerebant eosque ea in rejuvabant Seing then we haue proved that we haue Apostles there cannot want Evangelists in this sense and we see that Act. 21. V. 8. Philip is called an Evangelist and S. Paul 2. Timoth 4. V. 5. saieth to Timothy Opus fac Evangelistae so that not only they were Evangelists who wrote but those also who declared and published the Gospell to others And Cornelius à Lapide cites the judgment of S. Ambros Theoph and S. Anselme that Evangelists are deacons as Philip was Nam quamvis non sint Sacerdotes evangelizare tamen possunt ex cathedra quemadmodum Stephanus Pilippus And S. Anselm observes that even in these tymes Deacons sing the Gospell and in their Ordination they receyue power to preach the Gospell But besides all this I desire to know when for explication of dedit he gaue you say it signifyes that Christ gaue at his Ascension Apostles and Prophets and Evangelists what you meane by at his Ascension Seing at our Saviours Ascension there were no Evangelists who wrote any Gospell of S. Matthew that was the first being written about eight yeares after our Saviour Ascension ād the Gospell of S. John was written about the yeare our Lord ninetynine of how then can you explicate He gaue to signify only what he actually left to his Church and not with a reference to the future what he was to leaue The like Demand may be made concerning the Apostles considering that S. Matthias was presently chosen and S. Paul some two yeares after our Saviours Ascension was extraordinarily called to be an Apostle Lastly the same Promise may respect different objects according to their diversity of nature and may be vnderstood perpetuall in respect of those which are alwayes necessary to the Church and in order to others limited to a tyme according to their exigence and so God should not faile of his promise but performe it according to the first intention therof as Protestants are wont to say that God promised the Gift of miracles for a tyme only and yet it cānot be denyed but that at the same tyme he gaue a command to preach and baptize and a promise that he who believeth and is baptized shall be saved Mark 16. both which were to last till the worlds end You say can you shew that the word edoke hath this signification in other places and that it must haue it in this place Whereby you signify that though it had this signification in an hundred other places yet
Holy Scripture 7. I need say no more to your N. 19. than only that seing you and Dr. Potter pretend that the Creed containes only Credenda and not Agenda you further men no more towards salvation than one who would bring you half way to your journeyes end and then for your greater comfort tell you that neither hee or any other could conduct you further as in this place you doe first referring him to Scripture for full satisfaction and then telling him that to giue a particular Catalogue of Fundamentall is impossible Of the difference betwene the Catalogue which Ch. Ma. gives and that which you assigne I haue spoken hertofore 8. Your N. 20. is but a passage to your following N. 21.22.23.24 Wherein you heape words vpon words and Syllogisme vpon Syllogisme rather to amuse or amaze than instruct the Reader But all will vanish into nothing by these considerations 1. That the belief of some points may be necessary for the Church though not for every particular person which therefore if the Creed doth not containe it caÌ„not be saied to comprehend all necessary points 2. When question is whether the Creed containe all Fundamentall Articles it must be vnderstood in such manner as by it alone we may be sure to know all Fundamentall points and consequently 3. that by it alone we may know the true sense of all such points 4. That yet as Ch. Ma shewes N. 4.5 it is impossible to know by the Creed alone the meaning of all necessary Articles as is manifest by the disagreement of Protestants from Catholiques and amongst themselves 5. That therefore the Creed without Tradition and interpretation of the Church is so farre from enabling vs to belieue all Fundamentall points that men left to themselves would be sure to take occasion thereby of many Errours and Heresies as experience hath taught the world But if you take the Creed with the Living voyce Tradition and declaration of the Church it cannot availe you who reject the Authority of the Church 6. Whatsoever the ancient Fathers or moderne Writers deliver concerning the sufficiency of the Creed for matters of Faith they alwayes take it with the Tradition of the Church and so not the Creed alone but the Creede with Tradition is that of which they speake and therefore are so farre from speaking home to your purpose that in every one of their sentences they oppose your Assertion concerning the Creed which is so clearely true that you procede to the abandoning and euen opposing Dr. Potter for mentioning the explanation of the Creed by Councells or the Church Neither can you with any shadow of reason proue that it was necessary the Creed should contayne all necessary points of Faith vnless first you begg an other Question that the Church is not infallible For if she be infallible as most certainly she is we shall be sure that in all occasions she will supply what is not expressed in the Creed as we saied of Scripture neither is it our parte to examine why the Apostles set not downe all particulars as it is cleare they haue delivered some points of less moment than are diverse mysteryes of our Saviours life omitted by them and will you ask them why did you so 7. We may infer out of what hath bene saied That although the Articles contayned in the Creed may seeme to be comprized in a small compass if we respect the words yet if we consider the sense and such maine Articles as haue connexion with them they cannot be declared in few words but must be declared by Catechists Pastors Doctors and in a word by the Church in proofe whereof I referr the Reader to Châ—ma N. 4.5.6 where he shall see how many necessary points are implyed in one of the Articles of the Creed 9. These Observations being premised together with what Charity Maintayned notes N. 9. That all points of Faith may be saied to be contained in the Creed in some sense as for example implicitely generally or in some such involved manner For when we belieue the Catholique Church we do implicitely belieue whatsoever she proposeth as belonging to Faith Or els by way of reduction c. All your objections are answered For when Charity Maintoyned N. 8. affirmes That the Creed containes such generall heads as were most fitting and requisite for preaching the Faith of Christ to Iewes and Gentiles c. He means not of the bare words but of the sense as he expresly declares N. 4. and 5. which meaning we are to receyue from the Church declaring in all occasions what occurs necessary to salvation and so as I saied there was no necessity that all necessary points should be contayned in the Creed otherwise than in some generall manner v.g. in the Article of the Church as herefore we saied out of S. Austine concerning Scripture and as Repentance the Sacrament of Baptisme and Pennance which are to be reckoned inter Agenda are implied in the Article of Remission of sinnes as Potter Pag. 237. saieth that the Eucharist is evidently included in the Communion of Saynts and yet Pag. 235. he teaches that the Sacraments are rather to be reckoned among the Agenda of the Church than the credenda And vitam aeternam may signify not only that we beleue but also that we Hope for that Life yea Ch. ma. N. 5. shewes that in the Article of our Saviours being Redeemer are contayned many other chiefe points belonging to practise or Agenda As likewise the Article of the Church containes Governement Discipline Power to excommunicate c. so that there is no necessity to vnderstand the Creed only of speculatiue Objects and then what reason can you giue why some Agenda are implied and not other And so your discourse N. 22. which goes vpon this ground that the Creed containes meerely Credenda vanisheth into nothing and Ch. Ma. neither needs nor can accept your explication of his words when you make him say which was to comprehend all such generall heads of Faith which being points of simple belief were most fit and requisite c. whereas He N. 8. which heer you cite hath no such limitation to points of simple belief as may be seene not only in Ch. ma. but also in the beginning of your N. 21. where you profess to serdowne his words Only in the end of his saied N. 8. he cites the Dostrine of Potter that the Creed contaynes only credenda Neither will you be able to find in all Ch. ma. that he ever reaches that the Creed containes only such Articles as are meerely speculatiue but only mentions it as taught by Potter nor haue you any reason to exact of him Ch. Ma. that he should haue added the particles all or some seing his Propositions though seeming indefinite yet were sufficiently declared by the matter and circumstances And therefore I must put you in mynd that you take too much vpon you when you giue this Title to this Chapter That the Creed
from the sayings of ancient Fathers and moderne Divines can only in the opinion of him and all other Protestants be probable and so cannot oblige every one to know the Creed but men may keepe their liberty Melior est conditio possidentis And Potter himselfe confesses it to be only probable that the Creed containes all fundamentall points and so he cannot oblige men to know the Creed because it only probably containes all necessary Articles If then you cannot proue that any is obliged to know the Creed in vaine doe you say belieue all and you shall be sure to belieue all that is Fundamentall but you must say the direct contrary Men are not in the Principles of Protestants obliged to belieue the Creed Therefore they are not obliged to belieue by it any point Fundamentall or not Fundamentall You say Dr. Potter sayes no where that all the Articles of the Creed are fundamentall Neither doth Ch. Ma. ever affirme that he sayes so but the thing being of it self true and you expressly confess it to be true He had reason joyning it with other principles of the Doctor to frame such a Dialague as he did betwene Potter and some desirous to find the Truth And now I hope it appeares that you had no reason to accuse Ch Ma. of vn-ingenious dealing sit for a Faire or Comedy of sirang immodesty of adding to the Doctors words of injustice of blind zeale transporting him beyond all bounds of honesty and discretion and making him careless of speaking either truth or sense That he is a prevaricating Proxy That he patches together a most ridiculous answer That it appeares to his shame c and finally you say certainly if Dr. Potter doth Answer thus I will make bold to say he is a very foole But if he does not then But. I for beare you These be your modest epethitons You say that we Catholiques interpret those divine prescriptions Matth 5. to be no more than Counsells But I pray what Catholique ever taught that our Saviour delivered only a Counsell when he saied whosoever shall say to his brother thou foole shall be guilty of hell fire But all the rest of your acerbity is nothing to that fearefull denunciation which you vtter against Ch. Ma. that our errours as you call them you feare will be certainly destructiue to such as he is that is to all those who haue eyes to see and will not see 52. In your N. 64. you cavill that Ch. Ma. promises to answer D. Potters Arguments against that which he Ch. Ma. said before But presently forgetting himself in stead of answering the Doctors Arguments falls a confuting his Answers to the Argument of Ch. Ma. 53. Answer Ch. ma. N. 20. promises to answer not the Arguments as you say but the Objections of Dr. Potter against that which we had said before which be doth performe N. 21.22.27 and N. 23. he begins to answer the Doctors positive Arguments alledged to proue that the Creed containes all fundamentall Articles of Faith And the Confutations of the Doctors objections are so strong that you abandon your Client and tell vs that he rather glances at then builds vpon thē that they were said ex abundanti and therefore that you conceiue it superfluous to examine the exceptions of Ch. Ma. against them This is an excellent answer if it could be as satisfactory as it is easy I must intreate the Reader to peruse the N. 21.22.27 of Ch. Ma. and he will finde that Dr. Potter needed a Defence which will be suspected you did not giue because indeed you could not and therefore you fly to an other Answer which you will not find in Dr. Potter That Scripture is not a point necessary to be explicitely believed And How ought Protestants to accept this answer who teach that wee can belieue nothing belonging to Christian Faith but by Scripture alone which if they belieue not Actually nor are bound to belieue it how can they Actually believe or be obliged to belieue the contents thereof If the Church in your opinyon be not infallible and that mē are not obliged to belieue the Scripture to be the word of God and infallible which to them who belieue is not it all one as if it were not what certainty can Protestants haue either that the Creed containes all fundamentall Articles of simple beliefe or that those which it containes are true you say Gregory of Ualentia seemes to confess the Creeds being collected out of Scripture and supposing the Authority of it But Ualentia 2.2 Disp 1. Quest 1. Punct 4. saied only that the Creed containes those things which are in different places contayned in Scripture which is evidently true but he saieth not the Creed was collected out of Scripture which was written after the Creed was composed one thinghe saieth which had bene more for your purpose to obserue that in believing the Creed we are to regard the sence Non enim saieth he sufficit haerere in cortice verborum 54. Subtract from your N. 65. what hath bene answered already or may be answered by a meere denyall or which implies a begging of the Question there will remaine only your saying which yet I cannot say deserves any answer that Ch. Ma. speakes that which is hardly sense in calling the Creed an abridgment of some Articles of Faith For I demand say you these some Articles which you speak of which are they Those that are out of the Creed or those that are in it Those that are in it it comprehends at large and therfore it is not an abridgment of them Those that are out of it it comprehends not at all and therfore is not an abridgment of them If you would call it now an abridgment of the Faith this would be sense and signifie thus much That all the necessary Articles of Christian Faith are comprized in it For it is the proper duty of abridgments to leaue out nothing necessary and to take in nothing vnnecessary 55. Answer this your subtility is so farr from being of any solidity that it overthrowes all abridgments contradicts Dr. Potter and yourselfe and proves that the Creed performes not the proper dury of an abridgment as you say it is and therfor you are injurious to it and the composers therof First your objection may be made against every Abredgment by demanding whether it be an abridgment of those points that are out of it or of those that are in it Those that are in it it comprehends at large and therfor it is not an abridgment of them Those that are out of it it comprehends not at all and therfor it is not an abridgment of them Secondly you contradict Dr. Potter who saieth Pag 234. The Creed is an abstract or Abridgment of such necessary Doctrines as are delivered in Seripture or collected ous of it And Charity Maintay saieth it is an abridgment of some articles and so the words of the Doctor are more restrained and limited than
those of Ch. Ma. who specifyed not necessary Doctrines but vsed the signe some which abstracts from necessary or not necessary and in that sence is more illimited and may be better divided into diverse members or parts and so more capable of being compendiated than if it were more simple and individed and as it were of it self a compendium before it could be compendiated Now I pray you tell the Doctor of Divinity that he speakes that which is hardly sense and demand of him these necessary Doctrines of which you say the Creed is an abridgment which are they Those that are out of the Creed or those that are in it Those that are in it it comprehends at large and therefore it is not an abridgment of them Those that are out of it it comprehends not at all and therfore it is not an abridgment of them Thirdly yourself in the beginning of this Chapter N. 1. and 5. say that the Doctors Assertion is that the Creed is a Summary of all those Doctrines or Credenda which all men are bound particularly to belieue and this you endeavour to make good through the whole Chapter Now you must ask yourself whether the Creed be a Summary of these Doctrines or Credenda which are in it or which are out of it c. and so apply your Argument against yourself and the Doctor In this very place you say if it be called an abridgment of the Faith this would be sense But if this would be sense I am sure your objection can haue none For then againe aske of yourselfe whether it be an abridgment of such points of the Faith as are in it or as are out of it and you will find that every syllable of your owne objection must be answered by yourselfe Besides is it an abridgment of all or of some part of the Faith You will not say it is an abridgment of all the Faith seing you confesse that much of the Faith is not in the Creed namely those points which you call agenda and you tell vs it cannot be an abridgment of such articles as it cōprehends not If then it be not an abridgmēt of all articles of Faith and yet is an abridgment of Faith as you confesse it must be an abridgment of some Articles of Faith which are the very words and proposition of Ch. ma. which you impugne and say it is hardly sense Fourthly Having told vs that all the necessary Articles of the Christian Faith are comprized in the Creed you add for this is the proper duty of abridgmēts to leaue out nothing necessary and to take in nothing vnnecescessary Now you grāt that there are in the Creed some articles not necessary or Fundamentall therfor the Creed or the composers therof faild in the proper duty of abridgments or if you deny this consequence you must deny your owne words that the proper duty of abridgments is to take in nothing vnnecessary or finally deny that which you expresly grant that in the Creed there are some points vnfundamentall and so heape contradiction vpon contradiction On the other side Agenda are necessary and yet are not contayned in the Creed and so neither part of your proper duty of abridgments is true The truth is you abuse the word necessary not distinguishing betweene necessary to be believed and necessary to be set downe in the Creed For neither is it necessary that all necessary points of beliefe be exprest in the Creed as you confesse Agenda are not nor is it necessary that no point vnfundamentall or vnnecessary be set downe therin only it was necessary for the Apostles to set downe all that which the Holy Ghost moved them to expresse with which it is also necessary for vs to be content notwithstanding your topicall humane reasons to the contrary But what answer shall we giue to your objection Truly it is so easy a taske that I scarsely judge it necessary to giue any at all For what is more easy then to say The Creed is an abridgment of some Articles not because it doth not containe them but because it containes them not at large with explanations proofes illustrations deductions sequels conclusions and the like For if one set downe at large all that he pretends to abridg he is not an Abbreviator but an Amanuensis or Copist And in this I may alledge your selfe who in this very Chapter N. 31. say Summaries must not omit any necessary Doctrine of that Science wherof they are Summaries though the Illustrations and Reasons of it they may omit Thus then the Creed may be an abridgment of some Articles both fundamentall and not fundamentall without any such non-sense as you are pleased to object But surely it will seeme somewhat strange to say as you doe Those Articles that are in the Creed it comprehends at large and therfor it is not an abridgment of them as if nothing can be set downe in the Creed or any other writing clearly and particularly but it must be set downe at large which is to take away all briefe and compendious treatises and therefore as I sayd your selfe must answer your owne objection Out of what we haue saied is answered your N. 66. wherein you and the Doctor must either suppose and begg the question in supposing that all points of simple belief are contayned in the Creed or els his Argumēt is of no force at all 56. To your N. 67.68 the Answer is very easy that all those interrogations of Potter which you call plaine and convincing Arguments are nothing but plaine beggings of the question and suppose that the whole way to heauen all Articles of Faith the whole Counsell of God all necessary matters are contained in the Creed which you know is the thing controverted The Doctour should first haue proved that the Creed containes all necessary points and then haue vrged those his interrogations May the Churches of after ages make the narrow way to heaven narrower then our Saviour left it c. Doe not you and the Doctour acknowledge that men cannot come to heaven by believing only the contents of the Creed but must also belieue Agenda and besides the Faith of both these kindes of Articles they must keepe the commandements and so the Doctour must answer his owne interrogations and he himselfe was guilty of what I haue sayd I meane that all his interrogations could be to no purpose vnless first it be proved that the Creed containes all necessary points For this cause Pag. 222. after he had in a concionatory way made his interrogations he sayth All that can be replyed to this discourse is this that the whole Faith of those times is not contained in the Apostles Creed as if a man should say this is not the Apostles Creed but a part of it Now Char. Maint Pag. 143. N. 25. and in the following numbers having answered this and other objections and some of them in his second part Chap. 7. through divers numbers
it remaines that all his interrogations were fully answered the very foundation vpon which they stood that the Creed containes all necessary points being demolished and in particular his interrogation What tyranny is it to impose any new necessary matters on the Faith of Christians Seing yourselfe acknowledge that he professes the Creed to containe all necessary points of Faith not absolutely but as it was further opened and explained in some parts by occasion of emergent Heresies in the other Catholick Creeds of Nice Constantinople Ephesius Chalcedon and Athanasius which are his owne words Pag 216. and therfor he must answer his owne demand What tyranny is it to impose any new vnnecessary matters c. Since the declaration of those Councells were long after the Apostles time and for this cause you expresly professe to forsake the Doctour in this his explication of the Creed as we haue seene hertofore 57. To your N. 69.70.71.72.73 I answer Ch. Ma. had reason to say that Potter citing the words of S. Paul Act. 20. V. 27. adds this glosse of his owne needfull for our salvation For the Apostle both in our translation and in the Protestant English Bible hath profitable not needfull and yourselfe here N. 69. grant the same And speaking in rigor that which is strictly profitable is not needfull or necessary nor that which is properly needfull is profitable as profitable and needfull are membra contradistincta as when we distinguish Meanes to some End that some are profitable others necessary and you know it is in Logick no good division wherin one of the membra dividentia includes the other and therfor your saying to Ch Ma I hope you will make no difficulty to grant that whatsoeuer is needfull for salvation is very profitable is spoken with greater confidence then truth But for our present purpose seing the Apostle Uers 20. sayth I haue withdrawen nothing that was profitable and sayth not I haue withdrawen nothing that was needfull it followes that the Apostle taught not only necessary but also profitable things and thence I inferr that when he sayth V. 27. I haue not spared to declare vnto you all the counsel of God he meant not only of necessary but also of profitable points and therfore of more thē are contained in the Creed For which cause he C Ma. had reasō to take notice of this place in particular which clearly shewes out of the very text of Scripture which Potter cites his interrogations to be of no force but only to begg the question by supposing vntruly that whatsoever the Apostles revealed to the Church is contained in the Creed To salue this you say N. 70. It is not D. Potter that beggs the Question but you that mistake it which is not here in this particular place whether all points of simple Beliefe necessary for the salvation of the primitiue Christians were contained in the Apostles Symbol for that and the proofes of it follow after in the next § Pag. 223. of Dr. Potter but whether any thing can be necessary for Christians to belieue now which was not so from the beginning 58. Answer Dr. Potter Pag 216.217 sayeth The Creed of the Apostles is sayd generally by the Schoolemen and Fathers to comprehend a perfect Catalogue of Fundamentall truths and to imply a full rejection of Fundamentall heresies and hath been receaved by Orthodox Christians as an absolute summarie of the Christian Faith For proofe wherof we will first argue ad hominem and teach the Mistaker how to esteeme of his Creed out of his owne Masters And then having alledged divers Catholik Writers to proue his Assertion he adds it were easy to multiply testimonies to this effect out of their late and ancient schoole Doctors if it were not tedious All agree that the Creed briefely comprehends all Fundamentall principles or rudiments of Faith that it is a distinctiue Character severing Orthodox believers from insidels and heretiks that it is a full perfect and sufficient summary of the Catholik Faith Thus he And immediatly after sayth Their judgment that is the judgment of Catholik Authors whom he alledged herein that is for the purpos of proving the Creed to containe all Fundamentall Articles seemes full of reason And his reasons he setts downe in these words immediatly following For how can it be necessary for any Christian to haue more in his Creed then the Apostles had and the Church of their times May the Church of after ages make the narrow way to heaven narrower then our Saviour left it And so he goes on with his interrogations and in the same context hath these words of which we speake The Apostles professe they revealed to the Church the whole counsell of God keeping back nothing needfull for our Salvation What Tyranny then is it to impose any new necessary matters on the Faith of Christians I pray you consider whether he doth not speake expressly of the Apostles Creed when he saith How can it be necessary for any Chrictian to haue more in this Creed then the Apostles had and the Church of their time And doe not you N. 15. expressly vnderstand these words of the Doctor of the Apostles Creed as it is a full comprehension of that part of the beliefe of the Apostles which cōtaines only the necessary articles of simple Faith And consequently when the Doctour askes How can it be necessary for any Christian to haue more in his Creed then the Apostles had his demand must be How can it be necessary for any Christian to belieue more then the Creed containes Which evidently supposes that the Creed containes all things necessary otherwise it might be necessary to belieue some thing not contained in the Creed Besides what connexion can ther be in the Doctours words taken in your sense which will make him argue in this manner No Christian is obliged to belieue more then the Apostles believed who certainly believed more then is contained in the Creed Therfor the judgment of those who teach that the Creed containes all Fundamentall points is full of reason And indeed the Doctor had no occasion at all to proue that it can not be necessary for any Christian to belieue more then the Apostles did belieue neither did Ch Ma say any such thing And why doe you N. 67. exact of C Ma an āswer to D. Potters interrogations if they proue only that no Christiā is obliged to belieue more then the Apostles believed which as I sayd Ch Ma never denied Will you haue him C Ma confute his owne judgment and answer those arguments which were intended only to proue his owne beliefe Thus while you will be clearing the Doctour from begging the question you make him with great paines and pompe of words make many patheticall interrogations nothing to the purpose and grant that which is the only maine point that those his interrogations proue not that all fundamentall points be contained in the Creed Chuse of these inconveniences which you please
vertue rather to endure all torments and death itselfe then consent to it Who can deny but that in common speach to say we ought rather to dy then doe such a thing signifies the absolute vnlawfulnes therof Which in our case appeares more by his comparing the dividing of the Church to the offering sacrifice to Idolls Those Martyrs saith he being no lesse glorious that expose themselves to hinder the dismembring of the Church then those that suffer rather then they will offer Sacrifice to Idolls In your N. 13. you vainly distinguish betweene the deficiency of the visible Church and of the Churches visibility seing visibility is essentiall to the Church and I hope you will grant that nothing can exist without that which is essentiall to it 4. Your N. 15.16.17.18.19 make no lesse against S Austin D. Potter and the most learned Protestants then against Ch Ma. All your objections are answered by considering that we doe not affirme the Church to be at all tymes a like conspicuous glorious and as I may say prosperous but only That she shall be alwayes so knowne that men desirous of their salvation may be able to distinguish her from all other congregations and haue recourse to her for matters belonging to Religion seing in the ordinary course for we speake not of extraordiry cases or Miracles we must learne of her Fides ex auditu And your selfe Pag. 149. N. 38. say I must learne of the Church or some part of the Church or I cannot know that there was such a man as Christ that he taught such Doctrine that he and his Apostles did such miracles in confirmation of it that the Scripture is Gods word vnles I be taught it So then the Church is though not a certain Foundation and proofe of my Faith yet a necessary introduction to it How then doe you N. 17. aske this Question If some one Christian lived alone among Pagans in some country remote from Christendom shall we conceaue it impossible for this man to be saved because he cannot haue recourse to any cong regation for the affaires of his soule Seing yourselfe tell vs that you must learne of the Church or some part of it or you cannot know that there was such a man as Christ and consequently you suppose a Christian living among Pagans to haue learned of the Church the Christian Religion wherein being once instructed he may afterward be saved by an act of contrition when he cannot actually receaue any Sacramēt and so he is not saved without dependance on the Church of which he first learned the Doctrine of Christ Neither doe I say that every part of the vniversall Church must alwayes be visible to the whole but that every part must be visible to some and so the whole collection of Churches will come to be visible in all places and knowne to the whole world Yea every particular Church is of it selfe visible to the whole that is from all parts of the Church it may receaue writings letters messages and messengers though it be not needfull that actually it doe so ād so be actually visible to the whole as I sayd That the true Church cannot be without the preaching of the word and right administration of Sacraments is the common Doctrine of Protestants who say they are essentiall notes of the Church as hath been declared hertofore And though it were granted that per accidens these things could not be actually performed in some particular case which yet indeed cannot happen because even the profession of Faith is a reall preaching that makes nothing to proue that the vniversall true Church can be invisible which in the greatest persecutions was visible both to friends and foes and became more conspicuous even by persecution it selfe Glorious S. Austin brings so many and so cleare texts of Scripture for the Amplitude and Perpetuity of the Church against the Donatists that you may blush to speake so contemptibly of his Doctrine in this behalfe as you doe N. 16. or to say as you doe N. 20. that it appeares not by his words that he denyed not only the actuall perishing of the Church but the possibility of it seing he vrges the promises of God and predictions of the Prophets for the stability and perpetuity of Gods Church 5. You say N. 20. All that S. Austine saies is not true and that you belieue heate of disputation against the Donatists transported him so farr as to vrge against them more than was necessary and perhaps more than was true As concerning the last speach of S. Austine I cannot but wonder very much why he should think it absurd for any man to say There are sheepe which he knowes not but God knowes and no less at you for obtruding this sentence vpon vs as pertinent proofe of the Churches visibility Answer The words cited by Ch. Ma. out of S. Augustine De ovibus Cap. 1. are these Peradventure some one may saie there are other sheepe I know not where with which I am not acquainted yet God hath care of them But he is too absurd in humane sense that can imagine such things Which words of S. Austine are evidently true For is he not too absurd in humane sense that can imagine one to be a member of the Church to which visibility is essentiall and yet not be visible to men but knowen to God alone 6. Ch. Ma. Pag 165. N. 11. sayth These men doe not consider that while they deny the perpetuity of a visible Church they destroy their owne present Church according to the Argument which S. Austin Lib. 3. de Baptismo cont Donat. cap. 2. vrged against the Donatists in these words If the Church were lost in Cyprians we may say Gregories time from whence did Donatus Luther appeare From what earth did he spring From what sea is he come From what heaven did he drop And in another place How can they vaunt to haue any Church if she haue ceased ever since those times Lib. 3. cont Parm. 7. To this authority of S. Austin you answer N. 21. Neither doe I see how the trath of any present Church depends vpon the perpetuall visioility nay nor vpon the perpetuity of that which is past or future For what sense is there that it should not be in the power of God Almighty to restore to a flourishing estate a Church which oppression hath made in visible To repaire that which is ruined to reforme that which was corrupted or to reviue that which was dead Nay what reason is there but that by ordiuary meanes this may be done so long as the Scriptures by Divine providence are preserved in their integrity and Authority as the commonwealth though never so farr collapsed and overrunne with disorders is yet in possibility of being reduced vnto its Originall state so long as the Ancient Laws and Fundamentall Constitutions are extant and remaine inviolate from whence men may be directed how to make such a reformation 8. Answer The
his place and depending on him was not head of the Church while S. Peter did liue therefore he could not be his successor in that vniuersall power after S. Peters death Neither do you so much as offer to proue that S. Peter ever relinquished his being the particular Bishop of Rome and therefore how can you say the Bishop of Rome did succeed S. Peter while he was living seing no man can succeed a Bishop while that Bishop lives and is still Bishop of that particular Church in which an other is pretended to succeed him 42. Your Argument That as in building it is incongruous that foundations should succeed foundations so it may be in the Church that any other Apostle should succeed the first is to giue it the right name a nothing or a meere equivocation in the Metaphor of a foundation whereas a Foundation in our case signifies a Head or chiefe and if you hold it incongruous that foundations in this sense should succeed foundations you must say that no King Prince or magistrate can without incongruity succeed one an other Besides The Apostles were Foundations of the Church by their Preaching and Teaching for not all of them wrote and they were foundations of the Church before any one of thē wrote and I hope you will not say it is incongruous that Preachers and Teachers should haue Successors Was not Judas an Apostle and was not S. Matthias chosen not only after him but expressly for him or in his place or to succeede him For so S. Peter Act 1. applies that place of Scripture Episcopatum ejus accipiat alter and the prayer of the Christiās was Ostende quem elegeris ex his duobus vnum accipere locum ministerij hujus Apostolatus de quo praevaricatus est Judas But what if your very ground or foundation That in building it is incongruous that foundations should succeed foundations be false as certainly it is For if you suppose the first foundation to faile or be taken away may an other be substituted and succeed it The Apostles were Foundations but being mortall they faild and needed successours to supply their absence and so your similitude returnes directly vpon yourself If you will follow the metaphor of a foundation in all respects how do you say S. Peter and the rest of the Apostles by laying the foundations of the Church were to be the foundations of it seing you may saie in building it is incongruous that a foundation should laie a foundation Will you haue it laie itself Why do you not also say that as the foundation is vnder the building so the Apostles and all Pastors Prelats and Superiours are inferiour to the rest of the Church It seemes though the Scripture should be vnderstood as indeed it ought that Christ intended that S. Peters successours should haue jurisdiction over the whole Church you will controll God himself and say It is incongruous that foundation should succeed foundation You say els where vntruly that Ch. Ma. trifles about the word foundation which you confess to be metaphoricall and ambiguous and yet heere you ground your whole Argument vpon that metaphor ill applied as beside what hath bene sayd not only the Apostles but Prophets also are called in Scripture foundations super fundamentum Apostolorum Prophetarum and will you except that in a building it is incongruous to haue more than one firme and perfect foundation as certainly the Apostles were But I spend too much tyme in confuting such toyes as these 43. Your N. 101.102 haue bene answered already The Donatists for the cause of their separation pretēded not only that the men frō whome they separared were defiled with the contagion of the Traditors as you say but also that they erred in Faith in believing that Baptisme might be conferred by Heretiques to omit other things Your calumnie about a picture hath beene confuted heretofore Your N. 104. containes no difficulty which may not be answered by former grounds 44. To your N. 105. I answer that seing Potter accounts the errours of the Roman Church to be damnable to such as are not excused by Ignorance Ch. Ma. had reason to say the Doctour condemnes all learned Catholiques who least of all men can plead Ignorance It is evidently true that as Ch. Ma. P. 205.206 saith these two Propositions cannot consist in the vnderstanding of any one who considers what he saies After due examination I judg the Roman errours not to be in themselves fundamentall or damnable and yet I judg that according to true reason it is damnable to hold them For according to true reason one is to judg of things as indeed they are in themselves and therefore if in reason I judg them not to be fundamentall in themselves I must in reason conceyue that they are notfundamentall being held by mee neither doth there in this case intervene any lye seing one professeth that not to be damnable which he holds not to be damnable But where doth Ch. M. say as you cite him These Assertions the Roman errours are in themselves not damnable and yet it is damnable for me who know them to be errours to hold and confess them are absolutely inconsistent For it is impossible that any man can hold that which he knowes to be an errour because even by knowing it to be an error he holds it not but dissents from it He saieth only that it cannot be damnable to hold an error not damnable which is very true but saieth not that one can hold an errour which he knowes to be an errour 45. You make Ch. Ma. speak in this ridiculous manner to Protestants If you erred in thinking that our Church holds errours this error or erroneous conscience might be rectifyed ād deposed by judging those errors not damnable and then you triumph and spend many words in proving the very same thing which Ch. Ma. never denied but expressly affirmed namely that the errours of the Roman Church vpon a fals supposition that she had any were not damnable These be his words in the sayed N 206. If you grant your conscience to be erroneous in judging that you cannot be saved in the Roman Church by reason of her errours there is no other remedie but that you must rectifie your erring conscience by your other judgment that her errors are not fundamentall nor damnable And this is no more charity then you dayly affoard to such other Protestants as you tearme brethren whome you cannot deny to be in some errours vnless you will hold that of contradictorie propositions both may be true and yet you doe not judge it damnable to liue in their communion because you hold their errours not to be fundamentall Is this to say If you erred in thinking that your Church holds errours this errour might be rectified by judging these errours not damnable Is it not directly the contrary and supposes errours though they be not damnable Or doe you thinke that Ch. Ma. holds Protestants not to
denieth him in all seing there is one only Christ the same in all The Magdeburgians in Praefat Centur 6. They are Anti-Christs and divels Beza de puniendis haereticis They are infidels and Apostates Mort Lib 1. Apolog. Cap 7. Either you must giue the name of Catholiks to Protestants or we must deny them the name of Christians Yourself Pag 23. N 27. speaking of Uerityes contained in the vndoubted Books of Scripture say He that doth not belieue all can hardly belieue any neither haue we reason to belieue he doth so Which is more than Catholique Divines teach who affirme that an heretique may belieue some articles of Faith by an humane opinion not purelie for Divine Revelation and so you also must vnderstand that he who doth not belieue all that is contained in the vndoubted Books of Scripture can hardly belieue any for the Authority of Scripture but if he belieue them it must be with mixture of some other reason and so fall farre short of Divine supernaturall Faith Wittenbergenses in Refutat Ortodox Consensus As he who keepeth all the Law but offendeth in one is witness saint Iames guilty of all So who believeth not one word of Christ though he seemes to belieue the other articles of the Creed yet believeth nothing and is damned and incredulous Schlusselburgh Lib. 1. Theolog. Calvin Art 1. Most truly wrote S. Chrisostom in 1. Gallat He corupteth the whole doctrin who subuerteth it in the least Article Most truly saied Ambrose E pist ad demetriadem he is out of the number of the Faithfull and lot of Saints who dissenteth in any point from the Catholike Truth Calvin Ephes 4. V. 5. vpon that One God one Faith writeth thus As often as thou readest the word one vnderstand it put emphatically as if he had saied Christ cannot be divided Faith cannot not be parted Perkins in Explicat Symboli Colum 512 Thus indeed fareth the matter that a man failing in one article faileth and erreth in all Wherevpon Faith is termed an entire copulatiue As I saied of your words so I say of these that they containe more than Catholiques affirme and to giue them a true sense they must be vnderstood that he faileth and erreth in as much as he believes not with a divine but only with an humane Faith Spalatensis contra Suarem C. 1. N. 7 Divine Faith perisheth wholy by the least detraction and consequently it is no true Church no not visible in which entire Faith is not kept in publik profession 44. The same is the Doctrine of the ancient Fathers Tertullian de praescrip Cap 2. saieth Heresies are to destroy Faith and bring everlasting death And Cap 37. If they be heretiks they can be no Christians S. Cyprian Epist 73. saieth that both by the testimonie of the Gospell and Apostle Heretiks are called Anti-christs S. Austine Enchirid Cap 5. Christ in name only is found with any Heretiks S. Chrysostom cited by Ch Ma N. 33. in Galat 17. saieth that the least error in matter of Faith destroieth Faith Let them heare sayth this holy Father what S. Paul sayth Namely that they who brought in some small errour had overthrowne the Ghospell For to shew how a small thing ill mingled doth corrupt the whole he sayd that the Ghospell was subverted For as he who clips a litle of the stamp from the kings mony makes the whole piece of no value so whosoever takes away the least particle of sound Faith is wholy corrupted But enough of this You do but cavill and yourself know you doe so in saying to Ch Ma that there is not one Catholique Divine who delivers for true Doctrine this position of yours thus nakedly set downe That any error against any one revealed truth destroies all divine Faith For you cannot be ignorant that when this Question is propounded by Divines it is necessarily vnderstood of culpable error otherwise it could be no Question And whereas you say There is not one Catholique Divine who delivers c. Your self did reade in Ch Ma S. Thomas delivering that Doctrine in the same manner 2. 2. Q. 5. à 3. For having propounded the Question Whether he who denieth one Article of Faith may retaine Faith of other Articles in his Conclusion he saieth It is impossible that Faith even informed or Faith without Charity remaine in him who doth not belieue some one Article of Faith although he confess all the rest to be true What say you to this Is not S. Thomas one Catholique Divine or is he not one instar omnium And yet he both proposes and answers this Question supposing not expressing that he speakes of culpable errour and afterward he speaks expresly of Heretiques as also Ch Ma in this very Number expresly specifies Protestants whom you know we belieue to erre culpably against many revealed Truths You goe forward and speak to Ch Ma in this manner They Catholique Divines all require not yourself excepted that this truth must not only be revealed but revealed publiquely and all things considered sufficiently propounded to the erring party to be one of those which God vnder pain of damnation commands all men to belieue But you are more bold than well advised in taking vpon you to know what all Catholique Divines hold and you are even ridiculous in telling Ch Ma what his opinion is I beseech you produce any one Catholique Divine teaching that all Divines hold that the errour which destroyes all divine Faith must be revealed publiquely Who is ignorant that many great Divines teach that he were properly an Heretique who should reject or disbelieue a private Divine Revelation sufficiently knowne to be such by never so secret meanes Do not yourself heere cite Estius whom you stile one of the most rationall and profound Doctors of our Church saying It is impertinent to Faith by what meanes we belieue the prime verity For many of the Ancients as Adam Abraham Melchisedeck Iob receyved the Faith by speciall Revelation Do you not remember that Zacharie was punished for his slowness in believing a revelation made privately to him and of a particular object You speak very confusedly when you say They Catholique Divines require that this Truth be one of those which God vnder pain of Damnation commands all men to belieue For all Catholique Divines agree that it is Heresie to deny any revealed truth proposed by the Church though other wise it be not comāded to be believed ād you do not only teach through your whole Book that it is damnable to disbelieue any Truth sufficiciently propounded as revealed by God but you saie further that whatsoever one is obliged not to disbelieue at any time at the same tyme he is oblged to belieue it which latter part though it be false as I haue shewed heretofore yet it shewes that you must affirme that God vnder paine of damnation commands all men to belieue positively and explicitely all truths sufficiently propounded as revealed by God so that this
And now who can accuse vs for want of Charity toward Protestants since you a chosen champion for them are so vncharitable towards vs yea towards many of the chiefest Protestants who as I haue often saied agree with vs against their other pretended Brethren 12. In your N. 7. there is no difficulty requiring Answer yet I will not wholy omit it I deny that your ignorance of being obliged to obey the Roman Church can be probable as I haue proved heretofore And besides this you should consider that seing evē according to your owne confession the ministery of the Church is a necessary condition to beget Faith and that Faith is ex auditu the precept of obeying the Church implies a command to obey that Authority without which in the ordinary course we cannot attaine that which is absolutely necessary to salvation and consequently the obligation we haue to seek and obey the true Church is not only because we are commanded to do so but we are commanded to do so because it imports a matter necessary for our salvation 13. You say to Ch Ma Wheras you say that besides these things necessary because commanded there are other things which are commanded because necessary of which number you make Divine infallible Faith Baptisme in Act for Children and in desire for those who are come to the vse of Reason and the Sacrament of confession for those who haue committed mortall sinne In these words you seeme to me to deliver a strange Pardox viZ. That Faith and Baptisme and confession are not therefore necessary for vs because God appointed them but are therefore appointed by God because they were necessary for vs antecedently to his appointment which if it were true I wonder what it was beside God that made them necessary and made it necessary for God to command them 14. Answer First although the words of Ch Ma had bene the same which you set downe yet your collection from them is so foolish and false that the Reader cannot but take it ill that you should imagine him to be so weake as not to perceiue it Suppose I say Ch Ma had saied as you alledge him that there are things which are commanded because necessary doth it follow that they are appointed as necessary by any but by God who commands them by appointing them to be necessary Doth Ch Ma saie as you would haue him Faith c. are not therefore necessary for vs because God appointed thē but are therfore appointed by God because they were necessary for vs antecedētly to his appointment He saith only even as you cite him that they were commanded because necessary not that they were necessary antecedently to his appointment as you falsify him turning commanded into appointed ād making him say absurdly Other things are appointed by God because they were necessary for vs antecedently to his appointmēt But your malice will be yet more patēt by setting downe the very words of Ch Ma which are these N. 3. Some other things are saied to be necessary to salvation necessitate medij because they are meanes appointed by God mark appointed by God and how then could you say I wonder what it was beside God that made them necessary to attaine our End of eternall salvation in so strickt a manner that it were presumption to hope for salvation without them And as the former meanes are said to be necessary because they are commanded so the latter are commonly said to be commanded because they are necessary that is Although there were no other speciall precept mark speciall precept concerning them yet supposing they be once appointed as meanes absolutely necessary to salvation there cannot but rise an obligation of procuring to haue them in vertue of that vniversall precept of Charity which obligeth every man to procure the salvation of his owne soule These words of Ch Ma are so cleare and true that you may blush for having endeavoured to put vpon them any such absurd sense or paradox as we haue heard you express The remainder of this Number about the Faith and Baptisme of infants is an Argument not belonging to this place or Work and every one may find it treated learnedly and largely by Bellarmine and other Catholique Writers 15. Your N. 8. laies a heauy charge vpon Ch Ma who you say delivers this false and wicked Doctrine that for the procuring our owne salvatiō we are alwaies bound ūder pain of mortall sinne to take the safest way but for avoiding sinne we are not bound to doe so but may follow the opinion of any probable doctors though the cōtrary may be certainly free frō sinne ād theirs doubtfull 16. But you plainly falsify the words and meaning of Ch Ma as appeares by what I cited aboue out of his N. 4. for he never affirmes that for the procuring our owne salvatiō we are alwaies bound vnder pain of mortall sinne to take the safest way which is evidently false as I shewed aboue but that for avoiding sinne we are not bound to do so but may follow the opinion of any probable Doctors though the contrary may be certainly free from sinne and theirs be doubtfull Whereas he speakes not of a doubtfull conscience which to follow is alwaies a sinne but of a truly probable and prudent opinion which whosoever followes shall not only probably but certainly avoide sinne as it is not meerely probable but certaine that from probable premises a probable conclusion must follow and sinne according to the Doctrine of Ch Ma is alwaies to be avoided though no man can deny but that to avoide sinne more certainty must be had in some things than in other according to the quality of them as for example one is obliged vnder sinne to vse greater diligence for attaining the knowledg of fundamentall than vnfundamentall points of Faith and in generall no man of discretion can deny that more certainty is to be sought in the choise of the true Faith and Religion then in a sute of Law or deliberation whether some positiue Law oblige or no or other cases disputable on both sides and not touchin◠vpon any thing absolutely and indispensably necessary to salvation and so still it is true that we must avoide sinne to the vttermost of our power and this if we speak of deadly sinne is absolutely necessary to salvation You say Religion is one of those things which is necessary only because it is commanded For if none were commanded vnder pain of damnation how could it be damnable to be of any But by your leaue in this you shew great ignorance not distinguishing betwene a command of a thing which is not appointed by God as a meanes absolutely necessary to salvation and of a thing which is appointed as simply necessary as v.g. true Faith Religion Repentance of sinnes c as in proportion you say that some things are necessary to be believed because they are revealed and other revealed because they are necessary And if one should object
it selfe he should not haue spoken so rawly as if one strong and another weaker premise had no greater influēce into the Conclusion than if both the premises were weake 33. But to omitt this he should haue declared whether a conclusion deduced from one certaine and another probable premise although precisely and formally and Reduplicatiue as it is a conclusion can beget only a probable assent yet I say whether such a conclusion taken materially and Specificatinè may not be sufficient to bring our vnderstanding to an infallible Act of Faith not by it selfe but by applying the Diuine Reuelation which growing by that meanes and application to be the immediate and formall Object of our vnderstanding may moue it to an Assent proportionable to such an Object and Authority that is absolutely certaine and infallible as he who applyes fire to a combustible subject is occasion that heat is produced by the fire immediately applyed and not by him who applyed it or as a Preacher or Pastour whose testimonyes are humane and fallible when they declare to their hearers or subjects that some Truth is witnessed by Gods word are occasion that those people may produce a true infallible Act of Faith depending immediately vpon Divine Reuelation applyed by the sayd meanes This if he had declared as he should haue done not to deceaue his Reader his mayne argument that the conclusion followes the weaker premise had bene answered and confuted by himselfe 34. And this same ground and consideration wholy euacuates the examples which he alledgeth pag. 36. N 8. That a man cannot goe or stand strongly if either of his leggs be weake That a building cannot be stable if any one of the necessary pillars therof be infirme and instable That if a message be brought me from a man of absolute credit with me but by a messenger that is not so my considence of the truth of the Reuelation cannot but be rebated and lessened by my diffidence in the Relatour For in our Case humane testimonyes are not the leggs on which Faith stands nor the pillars which vphold it nor the message or messenger for which we belieue but it is only the Diuine Reuelation on which the Act of Faith relyes and from which it receyueth perfection nature and essence and which alone is strong enough for that end 35. If you object that perhaps that humane authority is false and proposes to my vnderstanding Diuine Reuelation when God doth not reueale Therfor I cannot vpon humane testimony representing or applying Diuine Reuelation exercise an infallible Act of Faith I answer it is one thing whether by a reflex Act I am absolutly certaine that I exercise an infallible act of Faith and an other whether indeed and in actu exercito I produce such an Act. Of the former I haue sayd nothing neither makes it to our present purpose Of the latter I affirme that when indeed humane testimony is true and so applyes a diuine reuelation which really exists in such case I may belieue by a true infallible Assent of Christian Faith The reason of this seemes cleare because although a truth which I know only by a probable assent is not certaine to me yet in it selfe it is most immoueable and certaine in regard that while a thing is it cannot but be for that tyme in which it is and so it implyes contradiction that Diuine reuelation should not exist when by a true judgment I affirme it to exist which certaine existance once supposed it is able to tansfuse certainty and infallibility to that Act of which it alone and not any precedent thing is the Formall Object and Motiue Neither will God be wanting to concurre on the belieuers part with his speciall Grace necessary for producing a supernaturall Act of Christian Faith And so his argument ibidem that a riuer will not rise higher than the fountaine from whence it flowes turnes against himselfe and proues that our Assent flowing from Diuine and infallible causes Will rise as high as those fountaines to a supernaturall infallible Assent This is sufficient to shew how the probability of a Conclusion taken specificatiue doth not hinder but that by meanes therof I may come afterward to an infalliblity in my Assent deriued not immediately from that Conclusion but from the Diuine Reuelation Wherby his chiefest Ground is ouerthrowne That it is vniuersally impossible to exercise an infallible Act of Faith vnless the existence of Diuine Reuelation be certainly foreknowne in one of the Premises 36. But yet further if we consider all the other Causes of Christian Faith they do euince that it is certaine and infallible as I haue touched before For beside the object of infinite Authority on the belieuers part God doth infuse the Habit of Faith He giues a particular Actuall Motion of Grace for exercising the Act therof He effectually moues the will by a Pious assection and Command to determine the vnderstanding to a firme assent of Faith aboue the precedent Arguments of Credibility If a better vnderstāding conceiue the same Object with more perfection than another of lesse capacity what stint can we put to that vnderstāding which is directed and strengthned by rayes from the light quae illuminat omnem hominem Which enlightneth euery man 37. Alas how perniciously foolish will men needs be towards their owne perdition All things euē by the instinct ād strēgth of nature pass from an imperfect to a perfect state from the outward senses to the inward which cā correct the errours of our outward from which it tooke its first notions from them to the vnderstanding and finally by probable Arguments is prepard to finde out Demonstrations And yet men will not vnderstand how we may rise from arguments of Credibility to a certainty in Faith though assisted with Diuine Grace 38. To what hath beene sayd for the infalliblity of Faith I add this consideration If Faith require not absolute certainty it were sufficient to belieue that the authority of Scripture is only probable or that it is on ly probable that God cā neither deceyue nor be deceued For this were sufficient to ground a probable assent that Christian Faith is true Because according to his Principles that Faith is a Conclusion and that the Conclusion followes the fallible and weaker Premise what difference is there to belieue that Scripture is fallible or to affirme that we do but probably and fallibly belieue that it is infallible or the word of God in his Principles or what imports it for attaining certainty that Gods Reuelation is in it selfe infallible if I doe but fauibly know that he hath reuealed any thing And yet S. Paule Heb 6 groundes Christian Faith vpon this that it is impossible For God to lie Therfore he did suppose that Christian Faith is infallible 39. But what if 〈◊〉 himselfe pretend to belieue that Christian Faith is infallible I do not say he belieues it to be such yet he hath words which I propose to the Reader
who may either see by this the disposition of the man and his contradiction to himselfe or gather how the infallibility of Faith is as it were the naturall sense of Christians since he who so much impugnes it cannot chuse but make ashew of defending it Pag. 410. he sayth For Arguments tending to proue an impossibility of all Diuine supernaturall jnfallible Faith and Religion I assure my selfe that if you were ten tymes more a spider than you are you could suck no such poyson from them My hart I am sure is innocent of any such intention and the searcher of all harts knowes that I had no other end in writing this Booke but to confirme to the vttermost of my ability the truth of the Diuine and jnfallible Religion of our deare lord and Saujour Christ Iesus If this be true surely the Booke which goes vnder his name is supposititious or a changeling telling vs that the Conclusion followes the weaker of the Premises of which one is but probable wheras now you heare him auouching that Christian Faith and Religion is supernaturall Diuine and infallible To this I will add what he hath Pag 357. N. 38. Certainly I know and with all your Sophistry you cannot make me doubt of what I know that I doe belieue the Gospel of Christ as it is deliuered in the vn loubted Books of Canonicall Scripture as verily as that it is now day that I see the light that I am now writing and I belieue it vpon this Motiue because I conceyue it sufficiently aboundantly superabundantly prooued to be Diuine Reuelation And yet in this I do not depend vpon any succession of men that haue always belieued it without any mixture of Errour nay I am fully perswaded there hath bene no such succession and yet do not find my selfe any way weakned in my faith by the want of it but so fully assured of the truth of it that though an Angell from Heauen should gainsay it or any part of it I perswade my selfe that I should not be mooued This I say and this I am sure is true The Reader may make of those words as verily as that it is now day That I see the sight c What he pleases I will only say that if Christian Faith be only probable it is either foolery or hypocrify in him to tell the world that he would not be mooued though an Angell from Heauen should gainsay it or any part of it For who would not sooner belieue an Angell from Heauen than the confessed fallible testimonyes of men on earth And therefore if he speake as he thinkes he must either acknowledg Christian 〈…〉 be infallible and so no authority gainsaying it can be by liued or else he cannot avoyde a non sense in preferring 〈…〉 probability before an Angell from Heauen 40. Whatsoeuer his words and Doâ—â—â—â— be against the infallibility of Faith I am sure that in deeds none doth bring better proofe for it than hee by pleading against it with Reasons and Arguments which may be so clearly answered as that euery one cannot but giue sentence for the Possession of Diuine infallible Faith seing no new Argument of worth or weight is produced to impugne it 41 That I may not seeme only to say and not proue this I must craue pardon if in answering his Objections I may perhaps seeme long and might justly be censured for tedious vnless my desire and intention were not only to answer but by Gods holy assistence to confute and retort his Arguments and so proue the Truth as also incidently to treate some materiall poynts which will offer themselues by occasion of his Objections and for themselues should not haue bene omitted And so I hope this length will bring with it a fourfold commodity This being done Christian Faith will keepe its Right to infallibility without any other positiue Reason to proue it though I haue brought diuerse and many more might be alledged and some who are sayd to cry vp Chillingworths Arguments will I hope see how flat and low they will be found to lye by being impartially considered and duly examined 42. His first and chiefest Objection which only hath any shew of dissiculty namely that The Motiues of Credibility being only probable Faith it selfe cannot be certaine he tooke from Catholike Diuines but dissembled their Answers and wanted humility to captiuate his vnderstanding vnto the obedience of Faith as they did and all good Christians ought to doe though neuer so many difficultyes should offer themselues to the contrary But this Objection I haue answered at large and turned it vpon himselfe in seuerall wayes and occasions needless to be repeated and therfor I come to his other Objection 43. Object 2. pag. 326. N. 4. Euery text of Scripture which makes mention of any that were weake or of any that were strong in Faith of any that were of little or any that were of great faith of any that abounded or any that were rich in Faith of increasing growing rooting grounding establishing confirming in Faith Euery such text is a demonstratiue refutation of this vaine fancy prouing that Faith euen true and sauing Faith is not a thing consisting in such an indiuisible point of perfection as you make it but capable of augmentation and diminution Euery prayer to God to increase your Faith or if you conceyue such a prayer derogatory from the perfection of your Faith the Apostles praying to Christ to increase their Faith is a conuincing argument of the same conclusion 44. Answer Not to take notice of his improper speach of augmentation and diminution in Faith which are appropriated to Quantity as intension and remission are propertyes of Quality the grouud and supposition on which this whole objection goes is manifestly vntrue namely that we make Faith to be a thing consisting in an indiuisible point of perfection wheras all Catholike Diuines teach that it hath degrees of perfection and intension no less then Hope and Charity and that de facto it receyues increase by euery meritorious act togeather with justifying Grace The Holy Councell of Trent Sess 6. C. 10. gives this Title to that Chapter Of the merease of justification already receiued c. And concludes it with these words Hoc justitiae incrementum petit Sancta Ecclesia Dominica 13. post Pentecosten cum orat Da nobis Domine Fidei Spei Caritatis augmentum This increase of justice the Holy Church doth ask when she prayes Giue vs ô Lord increase of Faith Hope and Charity You see we thinke it not derogatory from the perfection of our Faith as you are pleased to speake to pray for increase therof Who is ignorant that in Qualityes We are to distinguish between their essence which consists as it were in an indiuisible poynt and degrees of intension which may be increased within the compass of the same Essence otherwise it were not intension but the production of another Species or Essence as we experience in heate light and
and S. Austine and Bede Proaemio in Evangelium S. Ioannis Kemnitius also Exam. Pag. 202. confesses that S. John wrote his Gospell after the Apocalyps And Cornel. a Lapide Proaem in Epist 1. S. Joannis speaking of S. Johns three Epistles sayth It seemes that he wrote them about the same tyme that he wrote the Gospell By which account they were written after the Apocalyps Therfor that curse in the Apocalyps cannot be so vnderstood as to exclude all other writings after it 66. But the chiefest place which Protestants are wont to alledg for the sufficiency of scripture alone is that of S. Paul 2. Timoth. 3. V. 16.17 All scripture inspired of God is profitable to teach to argue to correct to instruct in justice that the man of God may be perfect instructed to every good worke I answer First Speaking in rigour Profitable Necessary sufficient are things both different and separable A thing may be profitable and not necessary and a thing may be both profitable and necessary for some effect and yet not sufficient alone to produce it Every line in Gods word is profitable but not every line is either necessary or sufficient Our question is whether scripture alone be sufficient The text alledged saith only that it is profitable but saith not that it is either necessary or sufficient Therfor if we consider this place alone Faith may be conceyved without any scripture because scripture heer is not sayd to be necessary and cannot be conceyved by scripture alone because scripture is not sayd to be sufficient And then the argument comes to be retorted in this manner That which is no more than profitable is neither necessary nor sufficient but in the text alledged which Protestants bring as sufficient to proue the sufficiency of scripture scripture is only sayd to be profitable Therfor it is neither necessary nor sufficient 67. Secondly The words precedent to this text are these but thou continue in those things which thou hast learned and are committed to thee knowing of whom thou hast learned and because from thine infancie thou hast knowen the holy scriptures which can instruct thee to salvation by the Faith which is in Christ Jesus By which words it appeares that the scripture of which S. Paul speakes is the Old testament which alone Timothy from his infancy had knowen and which could instruct him to salvation And therfor if this Objection be good the Old testament taken alone wil be sufficient for salvation and if it be a good consequence scripture is profitable to instruct therfor it is necessary and sufficient the Old testament which could instruct Timothy to salvation must be necessary and sufficient even for these tymes or if they were sufficient for those but not for these our tymes and that it be cleare that S. Paul spoke of those tymes and only of the Old testament as is confessed by Henoch Clapham Aretius Zwinglius Hooker and Ochinus as may be seene triple Cord. Chap. 7. Sect 5. with what conscience can they apply that text to vs as if the scripture of which that text speakes did signify the scriptures both of the Old and New testament Nay seing S. Paul wrote that Epistle to Timothy about forry yeares before the Canon of scripture was perfited and that Protestants affirme that a living Iudg was necessary till the Canon was complete it followes that the text whith they alledg cannot signify that at that tyme the scripture alone was either necessary because there was then a living Iudg which could determine all Controversyes or sufficient because the Canon was not finished And therfor although it were granted that the Old Testament which was perfited had alone beene evident in all necessary poynts and therby sufficient for the Jewes yet the scripture of the New Testament being not perfited when S. Paul wrote these words it doth not follow that they can signify their sufficiency for Christians As Hooker Eccles Polit. First Booke N. 14. Pag. 43. sayth When the Apostle affirmed vnto Timo thy that the Old was able to make him wise to salvation 2. Timoth. 3.15 it was not his meaning that the Old alone can do this vnto vs which liue sithence the publication of the New Mark how this great man amongst Protestants affirmes that S. Paul speaks only of the Old scripture and that this alone is not sufficient for Christians which he proves because the Apostle sayth that those scriptures were able to make Timothy wise through the Faith which is in Christ V. 15. And this appeares also by the words of S. Paul saying to Timothy in the same Chapter V. 10. But thou hast attayned to my doctrine institution c. And afterward But thou continue in those things which thou hast learned and are committed to thee knowing of whom thou hast learned That is of S. Paul his Maister Where we see that S. Paul did not send his scholler to Scripture alone but to his owne Institution Doctrine and interpretation and things committed to him by word of mouth or to scripture taken togeather with an infallible Living Iudg and so the Objection proves what we teach and overthrowes the doctrine of Protestants 68. Thirdly Protestants must shew that all things necessary are evidently contayned in scripture and this they must proue by some evident Text. For if it be not evident the matter will still remayne vncertayne But this Text on which they chiefly rely is not evident Therfor it is not sufficient to proue that which they intend and vpon which the whole Fabricke of their Faith depends The minor That this Text is not evident is evidently proved because it is impossible to shew evidently that profitable in this Text signifyes necessary or if that were freely granted it will remayne more than impossble to proue that profitable or necessary must in this Text signify sufficient For by what Grammer Logick or Divinity can any dreame this to be feceable The like I say of the words All scripture which they interpret not to signify every part or Book of Scripture but the whole body of Canonicall scripture taken togeather wheras Bellarm. de Verbo Dei Lib 4. Cap 10. saith truly In the judgment of all that vnderstand latin that which is sayd of all scripture inspired of God is of sayd every booke which is inspired of God Beside the Apostle by this Vniversall proposition that all scripture is inspired by God proves that every particular scripture is profitable and that the scripture of the Old Testament which Timothy had knowen from his infancy was profitable to instruct him to salvation And therfor as every part of scripture is inspired so also is it profitable And this is more cleare according to the Protestant Englsh Translation Anno 1611. and 1622. and Greeke Text All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine c Where we see that of the same thing or subject and by the same word scripture it is sayd