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A45325 Qvakers principles quaking, or, Pretended light proved darkness, and perfections found to be greatest imperfections in an answer to a written paper, subscribed with the name of Thomas Holme, and scattered through the country about Liverpool and Lancashire / modestly propounded by Ralph Hall ... Hall, Ralph. 1656 (1656) Wing H423; ESTC R39227 32,660 37

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monstrous men in India Non loquntur sed latrant they do not speak but bark by positive Assertions reproachful Epithites rayling Speeches conquering the modest and civil and indeed by their black mouthes become like the Basilisk killing the Birds of the Air in their very flight by their very breath for if once reason begin to traverse their black Indictments thou art Carnal Antichristian Devils and the like must stay the Process and confirm the sentence Many ways I might manifest the darkness of their pretended light but I must not now stand on an History of them but leave them to the view of their carriage the witness of such who have been seduced by them and the writings of such as have withstood them amongst which I here commend to thee this small Tract written in a plain simple and rustick stile like unto its Author a plain simple country-man in a private Calling possessing an honest heart and publick spirit filled with zeal to plead the Cause of Truth to his power and to prevent his Country-men and Neighbours from being seduced by this Fanatick Generation and following a plain Ignis fatuus into a wilde Wilderness of pretended light within only before I part with thee give me leave to prescribe to thee these few Rules for thy preservation 1 Set Reason in its Throne I mean not reasons Dictates which yet as thou art a man thou must observe and follow though they are too short to guide thee to Heaven but the rational faculty and power of discerning discoursing and determining things which God and Nature hath given thee for observe the Devil blindes this Eye and dethrones this Judge when he advanceth this pretended light when you are mad you may be brought to any thing 2 Stick close to Scripture as the Light unto thy feet and Lanthorn to thy paths by this the light exhibited by Christ and his Apostles was manifested and by this the Spirit of Light will be judged whilst Reason doth sit Judge see that it sentence by the Law of Scripture therefore in the right use of Scripture see that thou do own and embrace First Scripture sentences not words this sort of men do speak words and but words leaving sentences and so making the Word of God of none effect Secondly Sense of Scripture not meerly sentence the sentence may be figurative and to be understood otherwise than the words do simply shew as This is my Body and other like expressions do evidence Thirdly Sense rationally inferred as well as positively asserted reasoning from the Scripture is suitable to an enlightned rational being Fourthly Sense plainly flowing from the scope and circumstances of the text not strained by allusion unto Allegories and the like 3 State to the Soul standing Principles of Christianity see some things to be true and out of all controversie not to be admitted to debate but retained with all resolution against all temptation know that a Sceptick is a Quakers Gentleman-usher 4 Shun their Society especially solemn Assemblies how shouldest thou chuse but learn a lesson in the Devils School if thither thou resort day by day if their air bee infectious and Inchantments only Spiritual which on good ground and I beleeve experience too are found to bee natural canst thou accompany with them without danger it was once the Churchesery Cant. 1.7 Why should I turn aside by the flocks of thy companions 5 Sue by fervent prayer for the spirit of a sound mind now that thou art faln into a fanatique age prize the many helps thou hast to keep thee in thy wits and know that spirit of sobriety is the blessing of God but thereby effected in special use this Tract unto its especial end and that thou by it and helps of the like nature may be delivered from the error of the wicked is and shall be the constant prayer of Thine in and for the truth of the Gospel Zach. Crofton April 17. 1656. THE QUAKERS Paper truly copied out as it was by them written and sent to the Ministers and People in and about Walton and Liverpool To which the following Treatise is an Answer To the Priests and people of Walton and Liverpool and thereabouts FOr as much as there was a Dispute at the Greave-house near Walton betwixt the people called Quakers and the aforesaid Priests before mentioned In which Dispute the Priests was to prove the lawfulness of receiving of Tythes which by Scripture they could not do but one Scripture they brought in for their own ends which makes nothing for their purpose in Luke 11.42 to prove the receiving of Tythes for this was before he was sacrificed up when he said Woe unto ye Pharisees for ye tythe Mint and Rue and all manner of Herbs and pass over judgement and the love of God These ought yee to have done and not to leave the other undone Now let all people who have any understanding consider and see whether this be any ground or command for the Priests to take Tythes of the people after his being sacrificed up for he said These ought ye to have done but he gave no commandement to continue in them for he was the end of the Priesthood and the end of the Law by which the Priests took Tythes for the Priesthood being changed there was of necessity a change of the Law and a disanulling of the Commandement going before as Heb. 7.12.18 But in the time of the Law they was to take Tythes of the people according to the Law Heb. 7.5 and those that did not bring their Tythes into the Store-house whilst that Law and Commandement was of force robbed God Mal. 3.8.10 And the Lord commanded that all the Tythes should be brought of the increase and laid up and the Levite because he had no part nor inheritance with the people and the stranger and the fatherless and the widows should come and eat and be satisfied Deut. 14.28 29. And this was in the first Priesthood and before Jesus Christ was sacrificed up the unchangeable Priesthood Heb. 8.1 The everlasting Treasure Col. 2.3 In whom dwells all fulness vers. 9. Who hath blotted out the hand-writing of Ordinances and took it out of the way and nayled them to the Cross triumphing over them vers. 14 15. Then the Apostle denied all Ordinances that were hand written and said the Law was changed and the Priesthood was changed Heb. 7.12 and the Commandement disanulled so the Law now being changed by which the Priesthood was made and the Commandement disanulled by which they took Tythes of the people of God himself and the hand-writing of Ordinances blotted out therefore who art thou O man that goeth about to build again set up allow write for and uphold that which God put down disanulled and blotted out and nayled to the Cross Gods enemy thou art whoever thou bee for the earth is the Lords and the fulness thereof Psal. 24.1 And all are commanded to honour God with their substance who are his Stewards
will a man rob God it should seem by this text that your opinion is no new thing but as old as this Prophesie for the very same colour that yee pretend the Lord intimates to be this peoples pretence viz. Wherein have we robbed thee why saith the Lord in Tythes and Offerings and me thinks there is abundance of emphasis in the tenth verse by you likewise quoted Bring yee in all the Tythes into the store-house that there may be meat in my House and prove me now herewith saith the Lord of Hosts if I will not open windows in Heaven and pour down such a blessing as there shall not be room to receive it as if the Lord had said Do yee pretend a scarcity of the fruits of the earth so as yee cannot spare the Tythe that I require of you why you may thank your selves for your unwillingness to pay them that the increase of your Fields and of your Flocks and Herds is so slender or that I have blessed your increase no better but prove me now bring in the full of your Tythes keep nothing back and see if I will not so bless your increase as that not only your Barnes and your Wine-presses and your Stalls c. shal be full but there shall not be room to receive them And were it not to hold a Candle to the Sun I might adde many more Scriptures both out of the Law and Prophets that would speak the same thing As also of the largeness and bountifulness of the provision that God made for his Ministers that waited at his Altars even under the Law And have wee any grounded reason to produce why God should be straiter handed in his allowance of maintenance for his Ministers that he hath imployed in more excellent work for so is Gospel-work when it is compared with Legal-work But you are ready to take me here at my own word and to reply that all that I have said concerning Tythes is Legal and from the Law though you know it is partly from the Law and partly from the Prophets But you will say again the Law and Prophets are all one yea and so say I too and further I affirm That Moses and the Prophets and the Gospel are all one in substance and in effect the very same thing they are all the word of one and the same immutable and unchangeable God I might prove this abundantly but for brevity sake this one Scripture shall serve for and instead of many and methinks it might it is so full Heb. 1.1 2 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in times past to our Fathers by the Prophets hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son whom he hath appointed to be heir of all things by whom also hee made the Worlds I pray you observe with me God one and the same God spake spake one and the same word yea at sundry times and in divers manners to our Fathers by the Prophets to us by his Son but to both one and the same word So then we may conclude the immutable God who was yesterday to our fore-fathers to day to us and the same for evermore hath spoken a Word and left us a Word like himself unchangeable in the substance of it though changeable in the administration of it according to the good pleasure of God the speaker of it yet the same Word spoken to his people whether in old time by his Prophets or in the fulness of time by his Son Gal. 4.4 5. or in the declining of time by the Ministers of the Gospel so then we see how dangerous a thing it is for us to separate or put asunder what God hath so joyned together that it is no more two but one I mean his whole entire and individual word and if this be granted the controversie is easily decided But you say further This Law so much insisted upon together with the Priest-hood of it is changed and the Commandement disannulled and this you bottom upon Heb. 7.12 18. the very same words that you mention in your Paper I confess is here the Scripture-word yet let mee tell you if we should take every word in Scripture in the bare letter of it not weighing the sence and meaning of the Spirit of God in the Scriptures such absurdities would follow as you and I little think of for instance one amongst many it were easie for me to prove that you have no faith or for you to prove that I have none if we only look upon the letter of one text of Scripture and our Saviours own words Matth. 17.20 Verily I say unto you if you have faith as a grain of Mustard-seed yee shall say to this mountain be thou removed hence to yonder place and it shall remove and nothing shall be impossible to you Observe Faith as a grain of Mustard-seed which our Saviour elsewhere saith is the least of Seeds yet if so small a quantity of faith be in you Mountains shall remove out of one place into another but which of us can speak this word of faith so as a mountain of stone or earth shall thus remove I bless God I know how to understand this Scripture better but I say if we take this Scripture in the letter of it who hath any faith at all when so small a quantity of it will do so great a work Therefore I say the sence and scope of the Spirit of God must be inquired of in all Scripture readings or else there are many things in the very Epistles of the Apostle Paul that are hard to be understood which the unlearned and unskilful do wrest to their own destruction as they also wrest all other Scriptures 2 Pet. 3.16 and therefore let us enquire into the meaning of this change of Law and Priest-hood and of this disanulling of the Commandement and we are right at this point or else not As for the change of the Priest-hood it is in relation to the manner of Administration not in point of Office for though the Sacrifices of Burnt Offerings be taken out of the way being nayled to the Cross of Christ yet there remains the Sacrifice of Prayer and Supplication with giving of thanks 1 Tim. 2.1 to be offered up upon the Altar the Lord Jesus Christ which is to God a Sacrifice of a sweet-smelling savour Ephes. 5.2 and indeed is the sum and substance of all Burnt Offerings So David Thou requirest not Sacrifice else would I give it thee thou delightest not in Burnt Offerings but the sacrifice of God is a contrite spirit a broken and a humble heart O God thou wilt not despise Psal. 51.17 So if I should instance in all the particular injuctions of the Ceremonial Law it self we should find only the manner of Administration changed not the matter substance and equity of any one of them for instance in one of the meanest of them There was a Law of divers washings of hands and cleansing of
cups and vessels c. These are all taken away in respect of the manner of them but the substance and equity of these yet remain Wash thy heart O Jerusalem how long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee Jer. 4.14 and Isa. 1.16 And our Saviour taking notice of the strictness of the Pharisees about these washings saith Ye make clean the out side of the cup and platter but the inside is full of filthiness and uncleanness Mat. 23.25 26. And so David I will wash my hands in innocency so will I compass thine Altar O Lord Psal. 26.6 By all which Scriptures we see that the summe and substance of all the Law even of the Ceremonial part it self remains unchangeable though the manner of Administration be not onely changed but disanulled and taken out of the way as the lesser light to wit of a Candle is swallowed up of the greater light to wit the Sun Thus we see how the Priests work is changed viz. in point of Administration onely and so the Priests are changed in point of their Administration-work but in respect of the order of the Priesthood it is not changed For Christ is a Priest for ever after the Order of Melchisedeck so that from everlasting to everlasting the Priesthood in point of substance is one and the same for ever I might instance in the Sacraments of old under the Law and make it out that the summe and substance of them not only remain the same but are more lively held forth in those two Sacraments that Christ hath instituted and left to continue in his Church to his second coming 1 Cor. 11.26 Mat. 28.19 20. And what is held forth in the Gospel Israel had under the Law though more obscurely held forth Yet they did all eat the same spiritual meat and did all drink of the same spiritual drink for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them which Rock is Christ 1 Cor. 10.2 3 4. And Christ saith of Abraham That he rejoyced to see Christs day he saw it and was glad Joh. 8.56 But you say further the Commandement is disanulled I shall say so too if you mean the rigor and curse of it in relation to the Covenant of Works so as that it is not now Do this and live in the same circumstantial manner as it was under the Law but the equity summe and substance remains to this day viz. In manifesting our obedience to the Gospel of Christ as before to the Law of God not as I said even now in the same circumstantial manner but in another equivalent to it viz. in repentance faith love and new obedience without which no salvation and in truth when I seriously consider the Law and Gospel I find the Law to be nothing else but Gospel foretold and the Gospel nothing else but the Law fulfilled where lyes now the disanulling of the Commandement except in the sence before mentioned for as to the total annihilating disanulling or destroying the Law our Saviour disclaims it in his own words I came not to destroy but to fulfil the Law Matth 5.17 And the Apostle Paul having spoken largely to these forementioned distinctions lest any should as you seem to do mistake him and from his own words utterly abrogate and make void and useless the Law he saith in plain words Do wee then destroy the Law God forbid we rather establish the Law Rom. 3.31 And in truth I find our blessed Lord and Saviour so far from destroying the moral Law that he rather sets a sharper edge upon it and makes it of greater force and more binding in reference to the strict observance of it for saith he It hath been said of old Matth. 5.27.28 thou shalt not commit adultery but I say unto you he that shall look upon a woman so as to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart And whereas Moses suffered the putting away of wives upon dislikes and disagreements Christ tells us If any man put away his wife for any cause save for the cause and in the case of Fornication hath broken the Law and he that shall marry her that is divorced committed Adultery Mat. 5.32 And though these things and others of the like nature were not so expresly set down in the Moral Law yet they were fully included in the Commandement by all which we plainly see the harmony and agreement between Law and Gospel And thus having briefly yet plainly explained wherein the Law and Priesthood is changed and the Commandement disanulled I proceed to the great question in controversie viz. concerning the lawfulness or unlawfulness of giving and receiving Tythes and that as briefly and plainly as I can Now as we have seen the equity of the Law of God held forth in the Gospel in some cases so we may if we will see it held forth in this very case of Tythes 1 Cor. 9.14 Even so hath the Lord ordained That they that preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel I would gladly have any of you to shew me where and when this Ordination of God by the Apostle here cited was made manifest I know you could if you would but in regard you cast off the Law as useless I pray you see how you differ from the mind of the Apostle you need not to go far for this only cast your eye upon the 9. vers. of the forecited Chapter and you shall see It is written saith the Apostle in the Law of Moses and here at this 14. vers. Even so hath the Lord ordained as if the Spirit of God foreseeing such a generation of men as you are going about to rent and tear one part of the word of God from another he here joyns them in such an inseparable bond as the whole world is never able to unloose and not only so but draws all that is necessary to be received of us in point of comfortable maintenance of the Ministry into an intire doctrinal conclusion viz. That those that preach the Gospel should live of it is Gods own Ordinance and this he proves by Scripture from the 25. of Deut. 4. and having thus proved it by Scripture he argues it from several reasons drawn first from the equity of it vers. 7. Who goeth a warfare at any time at his own charges who planteth a vineyard and eateth not of the fruit thereof or who feedeth a flock and eateth not of the milk of the flock But further If we have sown unto you spiritual things is it a great matter if we reap your carnal things vers. 11. Again do we not know That they that Minister about holy things live of the things of the Temple and they that wait at the Altar are partakers with the Altar vers. 13. But you may perhaps say This was so in the time of the Law but ought it so to be now yea saith the Apostle Even so hath the Lord ordained that they that preach the Gospel should live of the
Conscience doth at large resolve the great Controversie about Tythes And shall proceed to the other great Query mentioned in your Paper and so take leave with you and all of your Opinions till you return again to the owning of the Truth of God laid down in the Scriptures and submit to order and break your selves off from disorder and confusion which tends to every evil work Jam. 5.16 And now to your Second great Question concerning Perfection I must first lay down your own words and then answer them for I desire to be faithful and not to wrong you in a syllable your words are these And thou Priest Fogge of Liverpool who said they that hold forth the way of perfection holdeth not the way of God but from under this thou canst not get but under the Condemnation must come and your reason is annexed viz. for the way of God is perfect which way is Jesus Christ for saith he I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh to the Father but by me but before I come to the Answer of this from under the just censure of false accusation you cannot get I use your own Language for Mr. Fogge was farre from denying the way of God to be perfect or from denying Christ to be the way the truth and the life But his Argument was that neither you nor any man nor woman upon earth had attained to perfection so as to be absolutely perfect in this life And for all he brought in many pertinent Scriptures to make good what he said yet you stick not so far to abuse him that you bury them all in silence not mentioning one of them I cannot conceive why you should do so unless it be your aim to hold him forth to the world to be so sottish that he could not make good his Argument against yours but blessed be God there were many ear witnesses that day but had there been none but your selves and that you should make your boast thereof yet I am confident no man indowed with reason would give credit to you in such a thing his abilities being better known than your own I shall pass by that disorder that you truly acknowledge was that day which was the occasion that many received not satisfaction For in truth I know not how such a thing as Order could be expected from a people that have cast off both order and decensie 1 Cor. 14.40 I shall now proceed to the direct Answer of your Question viz. Whether perfection be attainable in this life yea or no you say it is I say it is not except we take along with us these following limitations or as I may call them these steps to or degrees of perfection I shall for your and my own better understanding acknowledge four degrees of pefection and acknowledge three of them attainable in this life and the fourth unattainable all which I shall by the assistance of God make clear by Scripture and that very briefly First There is an imputative perfection that is when the perfection of Christ is imputed to a man and this was doubtless Jobs case hee was a perfect man in Gods account Job 1.8 because God had in the eternal Decree of his unchangeable love imputed the perfection of Christ to him he laying hold thereon by faith as it is written Abraham beleeved God and it was imputed to him for righteousness Gen. 15.6 and Rom. 4.3 which is all one with perfection for that man that is perfectly righteous is a perfect man but there is none in himself and from himself righteous no not one Rom. 3.10 There is none that doth good no not one vers. 12. And therefore whoever thou art that boastest of standing upon the feet of thy own perfection I say unto thee in the name of the Lord if thou standest at all thou standest by faith be not high minded but fear Rom. 11.20 Secondly There is perfection in part This is it the Apostle Paul owneth 2 Cor. 13 9 10. For we know in part and prophesie in part but when that which is perfect is come then that which is imperfect shall be done away And if any ask when this shall bee the same Apostle makes answer 1 Cor. 15.54 When this corruptible hath put on incorruption and this mortal hath put on immortality then shall be brought to pass the saying that was written Death is swallowed up in victory Hos. 13.4 For this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality And the same Apostle speaking of our bodies saith It is sown in dishonour it is raised in glory it is sown in weakness it ●s raised in power it is sown a natural but is raised a spiritual body Now tell me where is the spiritual body till it be raised from the dead But I beleeve and am fully perswaded that though my body be sown in death a vile body it shall in the resurrection be made like unto Christs glorious body Philip 3.21 Thirdly There is a comparative perfection a man may be said to be a perfect man in comparison of others that have not received the earnest of their inheritance and of such we read Prov. 12.26 The righteous man is more excellent than his neighbour Ephes. 1.14 And indeed it is true every godly man is more righteous more excellent and more perfect than his neighbour for none but the truly godly walketh before God in uprightness of heart And that man that hath an upright and sincere heart is in Gods account a perfect man So Noah and Abraham are said to be perfect men Gen. 6.9 and 17.1 Fourthly and lastly There is an absolute perfection as I said before when we the members shal be made like Christ our head Col. 1.18 when we shall be glorified together with him Rom. 8.17 when these vile bodies shal be made like unto his glorious body When all the remainders of corrupt nature shall be consumed in Gods furnace I mean the grave but whilst we continue in the body wee are said to be absent from the Lord 2 Cor. 5.8 This absolute perfection then is not attainable here in this life which is the thing I am now to prove and by Gods assistance shall do it First By Scripture Secondly By undeniable Argument and so draw to a conclusion And first for the first I might fill up much room with places that would speak fully to this point but as our Saviour saith In the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established I shall bring in two or three which I hope may suffice And first Job that was a perfect man in the sense I before mentioned viz. in Gods account yet in your sense he utterly disclaims it Job 9.20 If I justifie my self my own mouth shall condemn me And after Job had been as it were expostulating with God and pleading his own inno●●ncy and integrity and as it were Gods hard dealing with him and had in the bitterness