Selected quad for the lemma: sense_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
sense_n	protestant_n	scripture_n	word_n	3,549	5	5.2268	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78160	Prædestination, as before privately, so now at last openly defended against post-destination. In a correptorie correction, given in by way of answer to, a (so called) correct copy of some notes concerning Gods decrees, especially of reprobation; published the last summer, by Mr. T.P. in which correct copy of his, he left so much of pelagianisme, massilianisme, arminianisme uncorrected, as Scripture, antiquity, the Church of England, schoolmen, and all orthodox neotericks will exclaime against to his shame, as is manifestly evinced, / by William Barlee, rector of Brock-hole in Northamptonshire. To which are prefixed the epistles of Dr. Edward Reynolds, and Mr. Daniel Cawdrey.	Barlee, William.; Reynolds, Edward, 1599-1676.; Cawdrey, Daniel, 1588-1664.	1657 (1657)	Wing B819; Thomason E904_1; ESTC R19533	287,178	284

first relates to what God will doe himselfe the latter to what shall be done by the sinnefull will of others lib. 1. sect 10. p. 140. the place quoted by T. P. but just now We grant saith he there * Dr Twisse disputes against Jac. Armin. his text speaking of the latter even that will to be efficacious but the last consequence if by an efficacious will ergò by an efficient we totally denye as in consequent and then succeed the words mentioned by you p. 10. line 21. inde In both Gods will is efficacious but in the one it is only permissive but in the other effective 2. As for the prostitution unto sinne required which you speake of doubtlesse he speaks of some judiciary acts of God upon impenitent sinners as the Prophet Hosea 3. 13 14. when your daughters c. the Apostle 2 Thes 2. 3. You may as well denie God to put forth any providence in governing of the world as deny God to administer occasions of sinning unto wicked men (f) Bee content for once to learne something that is good from your beloved Jac. Armin. Disput 9. de ●ffic prob Dei in mullo Thes 20. propter incitamentorum occasionum oblationem directionem determinationem Dei permissioni peccati additam dicitur Deus quae ab hominibus malis Satana perpetrantur mala ipsa facere quod probat ex Gen. 45. 8. 37 25. 28. 4● 12. 12. 41. 19. Job 1. 2. 2 Sam. 12. 13. 12. 2 Sa 15 16. Sic Deus fecisse dicitur quod Absolon fecit quia potissimae partes in actionibus isti apotelesmati producendo adhibitis Dei fuerunt Accedit huc quod cum sapientia Dei norit si per talem incitamentorum occasionū oblationem directionem determinationem rem totam administret certo infallibiliter ●xisturum quod à creatura sine scelere perpetrari nequit cum voluntas ipsius decernat administrationem istam liquidius patet cur Deo factum hujusmodi tribuatur Fidei humanae potest subesse falsum and that those occasions not Gods sinning in offering them accursed be such a blasphemy do really affect the imaginations according to all those degrees whether that of profit or pleasure represented in them See this largely proved by our good and great Doctor past all feare of being confuted in his answer to Mr Hoard p. 26. inde And thus I hope I have in reference to the second thing proposed set Mr Calvin and Dr Twisse and all that hold with them into their proper honourable stations of sound and able Divines againe by wiping off the aspersion of modest or immodest blasphemy from their names But I shall bee forced to leave Mr T. P. amongst the accusers of the brethren and of his owne mothers sons Psa 50. 20. were he at least but a genuine son a member of any true Protestant Church In this I have been the longer not only to testifie my respects to two such great luminaries of the Church but because by so doing I have quite overturned one great rotten pillar upon which all this book doth rest which now as we shall see more briefly in what followes will bee Psal 62 3. as a bowing wall and a tottering fence And now thirdly in reference to the third thing proposed for the finishing of this Section I have but a few words to say to your quaking trembling oratoriall peroration with which you wind up this Section 1. I must professe it to be some part of my faith pray God I may be out in it to believe that you will rather turn Quaker and with them get into your trembling and shivering fits when you are big with no spirit of prophecy then you will not upon any or no occasion given take liberty by abusing such as Mr Calvin and Dr Twisse make the hearts of Gods people sad whom hee hath not made sad Ezek. 13. 22. make their very eares to tingle and hearts to tremble 2. Now I can upon certaine knowledge tell how little conscience you have used in reading or representing authors I may justly feare you do rather act the Tragaedian part of a Stage-plaier for the making your adversaries odious then that you greatly feare even reall blasphemies if you did so you would not upon suppositiō of the absolutenes of Gods decrees which cannot possibly be otherwise unless as I have elsewhere shewed we resolve to be madly Atheistical to call in Poets p. 13. if not Devils p. 24. to help you to blaspheme 3. But though since Mountebanck like you have thrust your selfe upon a stage and finde it necessary for the carrying on of your designe to have in readinesse the very pages and lines of those severall authors whom you designe if you can do it shall be offered up as victimes to the popular Jury of ignavo's or ill affected persons And that rather then this shall not be done you will rif●le the well furnisht Cabinet of the Batavian Remonstrant writings (g) Scripta Synodalia Remonstrantium Fur praedestinatus tied to the taile of the book quoted by Mr T. P. as to Andrewes his book or not sticke to be beholding to very thieves viz. such roguish pamphlets as fur praedestinatus and others are rather then you will want materials for invectives against Calvin Beza Twisse c. Yet pray Sir why should you expresse your sense of indignation against as you say too litterall expositions of some Texts of scripture of those vid. or the like enumerated by me p. 103 Know you not that bonus textuarius est bonus Theologus and that sensus scripturae est (h) Vide Dr Ames in Psalm secundum tantum unicus isque grammaticus where the letter is not plainly metaphoricall typicall or contrary to other more plain places and the cleare analogy of faith But belike when all your Socinio-Grotio-Percian glosses and Annotations shall be compiled together and be published for the clearing of the forequoted places and the putting of milkie mild Socino-Arminian glosses upon them the plumbeus cerebrofities of the now Protestant reformed world will be better indoctrinated and recede further from the words of those Scriptures but approach nearer to the genuine sense of them Credat Judaeus Apella non ego And thus have I done with this your seventh Section and I might say too with all this your first Chapter wherein I have and shal at every turn be forced to meet and scuffle with the Don Quixot you mention Epist 2. ante publicam edit and of which you may read in my last abused friend Dr Twisse upon the very like occasion writing against Jesuit Bellarmine (i) Dr Twisse lib 2. div gr 2. cap. 5. p. 53. quasi vero operosa demonstratione opus esset ad illud confirmandum de quo né libertini quidem dubitant nempe in hac palestra dominab●tur Bellarmin una cum socio suo T. P. egregiam laudem

referet de triumphatis prodigiosis quibusdam host bus chimericis quales for sitan ne Hercules quidem unquam aggressus est quales etiam unica tantum in terris regio suppeditat quae dici solet utopia quales denique parturit parit imaginatio● Interea for sitan his artibus hoc tandem lucrabitur ut non pauci talibus insidiis dolis capti ad injustā quā Bellarminus ingerere cupit suspicionem de nobis concipiendam eo facilius inducantur quasi nos minime puderet Deum peccati insimulare adeoque omnia flagitia Deo autore fieri palam profiteremur sed notētur imprimis sequētia ● D. T. P. nostro Sed non ipsi Pontificii Bellarmino modestiores quotquot non omnem excusserunt fronte pudorem haec nobis exprobare quae solet Bellarminus unquàm ausi fuerant Sed contra potius pronobis ab istis criminibus absolvendis pronuntiant Sic enim nos excusat Gabriel Vasquius quamvis ipse Jesuita in 1. disp 99. cap. 4. Caeterum observandum est non omnes haereticos nostri temporis docuisse Deum esse autorem peccati ut peccatum est sunt enim qui planè dicunt peccatum ut peccatum non esse in Deum ut in causam referendum sed tantum Deum esse causam operis peccati eo modo quo supra explicuimus ex mente ipsorum Ita docet Beza aphorismo illo 33. Calvin l. 3. Instit cap 23. sect 9. Zwinglius in Serm. de providentia cap. 6. Similia producit ex Suarefio c. Idem ergo de indiculo à T. P. exarato contra D. Calvinum Twissum possumus pronuntiare quod simili occasione protulit D. Prosper contra Augustini adversarios Prosper in Resp ad objectionem vicent contexunt qualibus possunt sententiis comprehendūt in aptissimarum quarundam blasphemiarum prodigiosa mendacia eaque ostendenda ingerenda multis publice privatimque circumserunt asserentes talia in nostro esse sensu qualia diabolico continentur Indiculo for my life I cannot light upon the faire L. Helena 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you talke of to me in the same letter unlesse as I thinke to you it be the slurring of all the faire names of all the men of renowne who have been active in the first or second reformation p. 35. And the enjoiment of this your Helena by you haud equidem invideo sed miror magis how have you dared so publickly to do it after such great protestations of affection both to the first latest reformers But of this verbum sapienti sat est verbum hand amplius addam p. 121. Falleris aeternam qui suspicis ebrius arcem Subruta succensis mox corruet ima tigillis Answer to sect 8. p. 11. c. usque ad finem capitis primi You have from hence to the end of the first Chapter an excellent cause to maintaine against Sir Nicolas nemo asserting God to bee the author of sinne and therefore I could heartily wish your arguments from Scripture reason and authority against him were somewhat stronger then they be However I will not shew you the flawes of them not only lest my book out-swel the printers minde to commit it to the presse but lest another day you should as well give it out against me as you have done against my betters that you have not the better of the cause whilst against Sir N. N. you plead God not to be the author of sinne I 'll therefore rather take you off from your dispute with a plaudit and with an egregiè Dom. magister haec tibi sufficiunt Egregia tibi laus spolia ampla debentur By my consent because omnia leviae tendunt sursum for your great conquests obteined against that formidable Knight by Scripture reason and authority So soon as ever a new Capitol shall be erected to Jupiter Hammon you shall enter the citadel tanquàm victor ovans with the acclamations of the people following you veni vidi vici But yet I must needs say that Calvin and Twisse and their copartners who maintaine God to will sinne in no other sense then that of Austins (k) Augustin ad Laurent cap. 95. Non fit aliquid nisi Omnipotens fieri velit vel sinendo ut fiat vel ipse faciendo Nec dubitandum est Deum facere benè etiam sinendo fieri quaecunque fiunt malè that nothing fals out but what God wils shall be either by his reall effecting of it or his voluntary permission of it for his own glory who maintaine this determining of sinne just after the rate that my most reverend friend (l) Dr Ames unto whose memory I owe much Thus then hee in his disceptat scholast cum Grevencho● edit in 4 to p. 50 51. opponis obsoletum de peccati praescientia praedeterminatione Cui ego respondebo parcius multo in scripturis declaratum esse quid Deus de malo quam quid de bono apud se decrevit satis igitur esse si de bonis nobis constet licet malorum origo intellectum nostrum fugiat deinde non est eadem ratio futurorū bonorum malorum bona enim sunt ex virtute positiva quae semper cum sui● effectis ab efficaci Dei voluntate fluit sed mala ex defectu sunt oriunda atque adeo qua talia non pendent ab efficaci aliquo decreto quicquid habet entis positivi ab efficaci decreto pendet quicquid purae negationis ex ejusdem decreti negatione sequitur quicquid verò privationis pravitatis in sese continet peccatoribus ipsis debetur in Solidum Dico igitur ipsa peccata cognosci in decreto Dei absolute definiente illud quod iis inest boni ipsius mali permissionem Ipsum etiam peccatum quamvis non quà peccatum a Deo praefinitur in ipsa etiam praefinitione certò videtur aliquo modo dici potest decreti illius consequens effectus autem nullo modo Vult Deus actus bonos quà actus quà bonos malos quà actus non quà malos Sic Augustinus hanc objectionem solvere solebat semper Saepius etiam à Pelagianis eadem occinebatur ipsi cantilena ut videre est contra Julian 3. 9. 5. 2 de lib. arbitr lib. 2. 19 20. most pithilie and yet fully exprest their sense whose words I do the rather give in the margent because that book is not easily to be had or in many scholars hands I say I must needs believe that they and such as they take themselves to be nothing concern'd in any of the Scriptures reasons or authorities which you bring against them and were they alive I doubt not but they would denie that which you say p. 15. that you shot somewhat further then you aimed which certainlie was but to calumniate them and to asperse their writings though they would be agreed upon the

of your heavenlie father as 2 Tim. 2. 9. Against this you doe dispute strenuouslie all along and especially p. 70. 2. Nor any speciall grace as particularlie and specially procured for you by Christs blood more then for all the world besides for this you count p. 38. a pernicious heresie (k) Just as Faustus Rhegin Coryphaeus S●mipelagianorum lib. 1. de grat lib. arbitr c. 17. Ille vere impius est qui eam viz. gratiam no● omnibus ingeri non omnibus testatur impendi Omnibus eam off●rt atque ingerit ad salutem omnium cond●●or redempior ad haec illi longe à pictatis tramite rec●dentes viz. Catholici respondere praesumunt non eam salva or omnibus d●dit quia nec pro omnibus mortuus est 3. No speciall grace as by which any speciall habits of grace viz of conversion regeneration sanctification c. are infused into your soule as any abiding seed of grace or life of God for in both your papers you are highly silent as to these matters though ad phalerandum populum p. 56. you make some slight mention of grace infused by God by which as we shall see when wee come to it if then and there I can but have leisure for doing it you cannot understand any habituall grace but only some light internall Coruscations or Irradiations of it 4. No reall efficient insuperable and in that sense irresistible grace but only of some externall morall not physicall worke of grace p. 57. but only p 62. strongly and effectually as you talke incongruouslie enough to your own principles p. 62. inclining the will and that only for a spurt or a season at such criticall opportunities and by such congruous meanes as by which the will doth very certeinlie and undoubtedlie assent 5. No speciall antecedent determining absolute unconditionate grace in the susception of which your will is meerely passive but a meere conditionall consequent grace which finds your will so busie and active as to be not only pragmaticall in your temporall vocation but lo what an active thing T P's will is but even in your very election 1. Papers p. 11. 2 p. 69. (l) J●st like the Massili●ns in Epist ad Augustin Tales a●unt perdi inquit Prosper talesque salvari quales futuros illos in annis majoribus si ad activam ser●a rentur aetatem scientia divina praeviderit 6. No speciall abiding lasting continued grace according to that Joh. 13. 1. having loved his own which were in the world he loved them u●to the end but as it may fall out a grace which may turne into hatred for as we have had it already your babes of grace p. 67. many of them out-live their innocency and fall from grace A goodly speciall grace this sure which hath all these mischievous qualifications I am sure all the orthodoxe in all ages have mainteined the contrary and upon the matter called grace especiall grace in the same sence that the Wetteravicks do in these their ingenious verses (m) Synod Dordrac 4to prae 2. p. Gratia sola Dei certos elegit ab aevo Dat certis Christum gratia sola Dei Gratia sola Dei fidei dat munera cèrtis Certos stare facit gratia sola Dei Gratia sola Dei cum nobis omnia donet Omnia nostraregat gloria sola Dei Chap. 1. Sect. 5. p. 7. HAD I not been deterred by what I have met with in your praevaricating portals the fulgid illustrious starre of B. Fulgentius shining in the margent of this Section would have put me in some hopes that you had been resolving in this Correct Copy of yours to have made a recantation of what you did solemnly and openly once deliver at Dayntrie and which you set downe out of Origen p. 26. and before that time had cast upon your first papers and tanquam re bene gestâ doe much more oratorially prosecute now through almost your whole chap. 2. A thing which that very Fulgentius quoted by you makes his very businesse to confute anon after the recitall of the words which you mention where he largely proves that though God do not praedestinate men to sinne yet he doth to their punishment for sinne of which hee denies not but asserts God to bee the author (n) Fulgent lib. 1. ad Monim P●aed●st●natos affi●mat Augustinus non ad delictum sed ad supplicium neque ad malum quod injustè admittunt sed ad cruciatum quem justissimè patientur ad tormentum quod illis propria iniquitas malè parit aequitas divina bene retribuit nec ad mortem animae primam sed ad mortem secundam quam necesse est patiantur c. So albeit the Church will ever looke upon Fulgentius as upon a fixed prosperous Starre in the Firmament of it yet you are like to bee looked on as some of the Planets spoken of Jude 13. if you repent not the sooner the rather because though you would make us believe that you have taken a great deale of care even your best care as you say sed quid dignum tanto tulit hic promissor hiatu that your conclusions might not differ from your true premises Yet any of those who have but in the least measure their senses exercised to discerne betwixt things that differ Heb. 5. 14. will easily perceive that 1. You have a great deale of care of pouring out a world of humane rhetoricke in the very words which mans wisedome teacheth 1 Cor. 2. 13. but none at all of any spirituall logicke for you no where exercise any thing of that art unlesse it were in drawing up a crackt syllogisme of foure termes as we shall see when wee come to p. 19. and then pinning it upon the Apostle that mighty spirituall Logician 2. Any body that is but furnished with halfe a good eye may easilie discerne that though with you in these as well as in your former papers p. 2. tria sunt omnia three are all with you Scripture Tradition Right reason as you and the Socinians have learned to stile carnall mens fond way of reasoning about the deep matters of God Yet you frequently relinquish the two former as shall be shewed for the courting of the latter which as some of your faction give out it is even since the fall most incorrupt and the most fitting about matters of praedestination praescience free will c. to be appealed unto against the judgement of the whole ancient and moderne Church (o) The words of Schast Castallio the fi●st corrupter as upon good ground is believed even of ●ac Arminius himselfe are very remarkable in the praef ad D●alog●s de praedestinat Illud adjiciunt fidem veram ●b hoc fides vera I● distinguished from the m●tters following de qua h●c loquimur v●lgo igno●am esse s●d de tribus primis videlic●t praed●stinat●on● electione libera voluntate vulgus hominum nisi qui sunt à

Question that by many furlongs you never came neer the question debated between you and them I may therefore bee allowed to afford you some orthodoxy who have elsewhere but little of it in your flourishing fears against Sir N. N. and shall not find my selfe necessitated any further to quarrell at the text of your 8 9 10 11 12. Sections then I can discerne a quarrelsome Spirit working in you against the sound tenents of the Christian orthodox party of the first or second reformers whom you like not as appears p. 35. and therfore in reference to your Sect. 8. p. 11. give me leave to say 1. That I like your text better as it lies in your letter then I like your marginall glosse either out of your admirable Grotius as you call him Epist 2. about the commending of whom and your designe in it you will give us a more fitting opportunity to speak else where in answer to p. 28. of yours or your Saint-like Andrewes of which something too must be said because of of the epithite imposed upon him by you p. 47. The former speaks indeed as to the forepart of his saying conformable to the most usuall phrasiologie of the scripture and the antients (l) August Enchirid. In sua quae falli mutarique non potest praescientia opera futura suà disponere illud omninò nec aliud quicquam est praedesti nare which say not much or often that God doth praedestinate men unto sinne the phrase of praedestination mostly both in scriptures and the fathers denotes only such things as God will effect and doe and that in reference to mans eternall condition and not such things as God determines to permit But for the other part of his saying that God doth not praedestinate or praedetermine men unto punishments is both contrary to manifest Scripture Rom. 9. 12. Jude 4. c and to pious antiquitie (m) Augustin ad Dulcitium Epist 61. Deus occulta satis dispositione sed tantum justâ nonnullos corū poenis praedestinavit extremis c. Tract 48. in Joh. Quomodo dixit vos non est is ex ovibus meis Quiae videbat cos ad sempiternum interitum praedestinatos Tract 107 filius perditionis dict us est traditor and the later Joh. Scot. in Hist Go●teshalci Edit à D Vsserio p. 128. praedestinatio semper in bonis ●emper in operibus suis c. Sic Synod Valentina ib. p. 180. Valentine Councill who understood the opinions of the antients in this matter as well as the admirable Grotius they sticke not to affirme that God did praedestinate wicked men to punishments for their sinnes 2. Your second Saint-like Andrewes is out when hee will needs have Rom. 11. 33. only applicable to praedestion or election when as by the series of the discourse unto which the words are a conclusory Epiphonema they are as well applicable to reprobation as to election if not more as appeares by ver 32. to reprobation then to election 2. None of your opposites quoted by you had used the phrase of praedestinating unto sinne nay in the sense of the Arausican Councill quoted by you p. 16. condemn it and therefore you might here very well have forborne your verball criticismes 3. Your conclusion here God is no where said to praedestine to sinne ergò he doth only in your speculative aequitable sense p. 14 15. permit sinne and not voluntarily decree that it shall fall out and that he will have the ordering of it is as valid a conclusion and yet thus you must draw your ergò if you will conclude any thing against Calvin or Twisse as that Baculus stat in angulo ergo Sacerdotes non debent nubere and look you to that formidable ergò who are said to be against all second marriages of ministers sect 12. p. 12 13. I might as quickly glide off from your sect 9 p. 12. and turne it off as I did the former as being nihil ad Rombum because your premises and conclusions notwithstanding your best care promised p. 7. that they should be fast twisted together hang together like ropes of sand and if I may use your hated Calvins phrase are desultationes à gallo ad Asinum (n) Calvinus contra Libertinos If I may but suspect that you intended a dispute against forsooth your blasphemous catalogue set downe p. 10 11. Meus est quem recitas you know Epist 3. ô Fidentine libellus Ast male dum recitas incipit esse tuus for there against Calvin and Twisse God every where professeth that he wils not sinne commands it not approves it not punisheth it expostulates against it c. ergò he doth not so much as determine or will that sinne should by his permission fall out by the voluntary wilfull wils of wicked men is a conclusion which makes me cry out utinam me nemore Pelei 2. I have elsewhere answered to the scriptures which you produce here out of Psal 81. 13. Isa 5. 3 4. Ezek. 18. 2. 29. when as you brought them forth in your first papers more stronglie for the carrying on the designe which there you were upon and yet so mistooke the Texts and expounded them worse then either a Jewish Rabbi Kimchi on Isa 5. or the Batavian Remonstrants in their Synodick writings I list not as much leisure as you may take me to have eandem serram reciprocare Those writings may in due time see the light if it shall be judged sitting 3. From your 19. line of p. 12. almost to the end of your 10. sect p. 13. you set upon such a desperate way of railing ranting nay of diabolicall blaspheming of the footsteps of the anointed I mean of the counsels and unknowne footsteps Rom. 11. 13. Psal 77. 19. of the high almightie holy one upon a wilfull mistake and misrepresentation of your adversaries tenents about them as that you seeme to me to have taken up a resolution to blaspheme downe all the rail●ng Rabshaka's who some say was an Apostate from the true religion (o) R. D. Kimchi in Isaiah and you confesse you were once in Calvins way p. 24. and so in some sense you be an Apostate optimi vini pessimum acetum none likely such stomackfull opposers of Gods truth as those who have forsaken the way of his righteous word and commandements All the scoffing Atheisticall Lucians the wanton Satyrists the furious Bolsers the wild Rogu●sh praedestinated thiefe (p) Fur praedestinationi● s●● 23. B●nae●fiae voluntates De● in cereb●o meo perpetuo moluerunt son●n●que veluti mola asinaria c. or any whosoever at any time may as it were for a fee (q) As one said well in the Synod of Dort upon the like occasion that the Remonstrants did behave them●e●ves tanquam conductitii R●proborum patroni so doth T. P. a new advocate to those kinde of Clients have set their tongues to lale in the behalfe of the Devill and the

Consequent will We know and teach Jam. 1. 17. That in God there is no variablenesse or shadow of changing 5. What therefore is now become of your objecting either in your first scrible or your last Gnosticisme Marcionisme Manichaisme or elsewhere of Stoicisme and Turcisme p. 55. unto the reformed O how you love them when as your owne reasonings here and elsewhere are just the cavellings of your owne objected Marcionites mentioned by your owne Tertullian against the Catholiques and are nothing else but the expuitions of the Semi-pelagian Massilians (x) Canes ait Tertullianus adversus Marcionem lib. 2. cap. 5. quos foras Apostolus expellit latrantes Deum veritatis haec sunt argumentationum ●ssa quae obroditis si Deus bonus praescius futuri And as well may we say as we shall heare anon out of Austin praedeterminans futurum avertendi mali potens cur hominem quidem imaginem similitudinem suam c. Passus est labi de obse quio legis in mortem circumventum a Diabolo Si enim bonus qui evenire tale quid nollet potens qui depellere valeret nullo mode evenisset quod sub his tribus conditionibus divinae majestatis evenire non posset Quod si evenit absolutum est è contrario Deum neque bonum credendum neque praescium neque potentem J. Vinc. Object 4. apud Prosp Quod major pars generis humani ad hoc cretur à Deo ut non Dei sed Diaboli faciat voluntatem Object 5. Quod peccatorum nostrorum autor sit Deus eo quod malam faciat voluntatem hominum plasmet substantiam quae naturali motu non possit nisi peccare Object 6. Quod Deus tale in hominibus plasm●t arbitrium quale est Daemonum quod proprio motu nihil aliud possit vel velit nisi peccare cap. 14. Qui Evangelicae praedicationi non credunt ex Dei praedestinatione non credunt quod ita Deus definierit ut quicunque non credunt ex ipsius constitutione non credunt against Austin and his party which once more you take up to spit them out upon the Protestants But I pray you before you object as you doe p. 12 13. absolute Reprobatarianisme to any have you so much as any where attempted to state in what sence your Adversaries whom you oppose p. 9 10. maintaine absolute Reprobation As I blesse God I have taken some honest paines about stating the Question about absolute Election in my first papers by which this other about reprobation will bee the more easily determined and which Dr Rivet according to the mind of the most doth very pithily and succinctly set downe (y) In disputationibus 13. It 's a sawcy way of reasoning yet none of Tertullians as is plaine by that of your owne in the margent Quis iste Deus tam bonus ut ab illo malus fiat to tattle what is better or worse for God to have done when once it shall from Scripture be made evident what God wil● as it is plaine enough that God wils that sin should fall out 2. Is not this a French tricke of yours learned perchance from your French Massilian Monsieurs who in like sort upbraided the Catholiques with an heresie of their owne forging which they called absolute praedestinarianisme As may bee seen in Histor Gotteshalci 3. Why sticke you not to the first fine epithite given to your adversaries whom you call the halfe-witted rabble of absolute praedestinarians p. 10. of your first papers 4. Your odious reasoning out of Tertullian à minore ad majus that it had been better and more reasonable c. Will 1. Bee of some force against us when you shall have proved that Gods voluntary decree of permitting sinne to be done which is terminus diminuens makes him to be the principle or author of evill which because that he doth not wil to doe or effect it but only determine that sinne shall be done (z) Non facere sed in bonum finem ut fiat permittere Quo sensu secundum Augustin veritatem ipsam bonum est malum esse Magna opera Dei exquisita in omnes voluntates ejus ut miro ineffabili modo non fiat praeter ejus voluntatem quod etiam fit contra ejus voluntatem quia non fi●ret si non sineret nec utique nolens sinit sed volens nec sineret bonus fieri malè nisi omnipotens etiam de malo facere posset bene not as a duty but as a fact that shall fall out by the sinfull will of the creature which makes only the sinning creature the sole efficient cause of his sinne if there can bee an efficient of that whose very being is consisting in a deficiency makes God only to bee the cause of its permission and regulation 5. Of Gods decreeing of punishments without all respect to sinne and of his necessitating of his creature to sinne termes of your owne coining which you would make the world believe you tooke for the owned currant coine of your Adversaries we shall be forced to speake to this often enough in the sequel ad Sect. 10. p. 13. For all the leisure which you conceive me to abound with p. 4. I am sure I am not at leisure in reference to James 1. 13 14. fully to open in what sence God may some way be said to tempt unto sin and yet not be the author of sin He that hath a minde to see that fully and satisfactorilie done let him consult with Dr Twisse against Mr Hoard from p. 17. usque ad 28. (a) S●c interpreters reconciling those two places 2 Sam 24. 1. 1 Chron. 21. 2. In transcurs● I can run and yet read that you have a months mind that Calvin and Twisse should be jumbled together with the modern Ranters but sooner will you and the moderne Jesuites agree in unâ sede morari 3 I cannot conceive to what purpose you quote 1 Cor. 10. 3. Is that promise made at randome to every man or to the elect and beleevers onely but I forget that according to your first and second papers all are or may be elect My wonderment is if this may passe for truth why any are damned or bee overcome by temptations 4. I cannot finde but your wicked wanton reasonings out of Terence in Eunuch and upon that account too of what you have out of Cornel. Agrip. makes full out as much against the praescience of evill before it fall out as against the praedetermination of it and Austin hath been full out as stupid as my selfe in thinking so (b) Augustin l. 2. de persev sanctor cap 15. Ayunt● viz. Semipelag●ani neminem posse correptionis stimulis excitari si dicatur in con ventu Ecclesiae c. Ita se habet de praedestinatione d●finita sententià voluntatis Dei c. ista dum dicunt it● nos à confitenda Dei gratia id est quae

force you to mainteine meritorious causes of divine election as farre as ever Pelagius did and in the sense that the Fathers did take the word merit and deny grace to be conferred according to works Your second argument Sect. 56. p. 69. and 70. hath that mistake in the ●ail of it which the other hath ● the head namely because that Christ in time is the head of the Church and before all time was designed to be such therefore he was the merit●rious cause of election it selfe and not onely of salvation and every saving grace tending to it which none but Socinians and the grostest sort of Arminians use to deny and so the election of Christ being in the in●uition of the back-sl●ding of the first Adam p. 69. ergo say you it must needs be respectively but because you doe but in this imperiously dictate and offer no proofe at all and that you be a direct Anti-Augustinian in this Augustin using against the Pelagians to triumph in the contrary Argument taken from Gods freely choosing Christ to be the head of the praedestinate (i) Aug. lib. de p●ecatorum merit remis de persev sanct cap. ult de corrept gra cap. 17. Nemo enim quisquam tanta rei hujus sidei caecus est ignorantia ut audeat dicere quamvis de spiritu sancto Virgine Maria filium hominis natum per liberum tamen arbitrium bene vivendo sine peccato bona opera faciendo mer●isse ut esset Dei filius resistente evangelio at● dicente verbum caro factum est c. I shall think nothing so fit as to send you to School again to Dr Twisse that famous School-man whom you point at when you reject the saying which some affirme p. 70. that Christ is not onely the meanes but the meritorious cause of our election and there you may understand I pray God give you grace to doe it how that assertion is mainteined by him without the least diminution to Christs blessed merits but to the certeine overthrow of your cause D. I will onely at this time leave you to muse upon that saying of Th. Aquinas 1. q. 23. Artic. 5. Nullus ita fuit insanae mentis ut diceret merita esse causam divinae praedestinationis exparte actus praedestinantis and whilst you be musing on it aske but of your selfe this question num satis sobrius 3. Your third proposed Sect. 57. p. 70 71. is so horribly and most uglily grosse in the forefront and ●ear of it as that it would even affright a Christian to looke upon it And yet 1. The sequell of it is but taken from the analogy of humane electio● to that of divine because man may ●ay must if he will choose rationally finde a difference in the object whom he prefers for that by virtue of his choice he cannot make it a whit better then he findes i● erga so God must in his choice and by vertue of it not make ●ut finde a difference proba scilice● cons●quent●am I might wonder (k) Even a popish Aquinas could have taught you better v. Thomam 1 2 q. 2 3. ar●ic 4 V●luntas D●l qua vult bonum alicui dilig●nao est causa cur illud b●●um ab co prae allis hab●atur probe enim observat D. Rivet disp 3. de p●aedestinat thes 10. Notandum esse electionem dil●●●anem aliter in nobi● ordinari quam in D●o e● quod voluntas in n●bis diligendo non causat bonum sed ex bono praeexistente incitamur ad diligendum ideo eligimus aliquem quem diligimus unde dilectio praecedit electionem in nobis in D●o autem est è converso our Saviour could not hit upon this when he said John 15. 16. You have not chosen me but I have chosen you and ordeined you not because he di● find or foresee fruit but that by v●rtue of their election they should go and bring forth fruit and that then fruit should remaine That the Logicall Apostle Paul should be so dogmatically contrary to this Rom. 9. 11 18. that he should keep such a coile with his v. 20. Man who art thou that thou repliest against God That the beloved Disciple so often in Christs bosome as Christ had been before in his Fathers bosome should have heard neither tale nor tidings of this when he wrote John 1. 4 10. that herein is love not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to bee a propitiation for our sins But I ceased to wonder when I considered that none of these blessed ones had ever sate at the feet of any Arminian Gamaliels 2. The sequell of it seems to be co●roborated with a saying out of that very same book of Austins ad Smplic of which you had formerly made a very simple use nor are you yet in your dealings with Austi●● come to your much commended retraciation p. 51. what Austin cast out by way of argumentation in concertatione whilst he was as some where he hath it (l) As we have seen before and often since in Epist Hilar. ex lib. exposit qua rund proposit Epist ad Romanos lib. de persev sanct cap. 18. Yea your Vessius confesseth as much Histo● Pelag. 655. And so much you might have learned out of Damascen quo●ed by your selfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in conflict● de gratia libertate you produce as his victorious conclusion in determinatione 2. Whilst you and your St Andrew with you from whom you had this quotation and almost your whole 57. Section for which hee is therefore most worthily shining in your margin p. 70. take up that for which Austin himselfe did beshrew himselfe very often and yet all this while p 70 you would make us believe that man hath no matter to boast though God never choose him till he hath persevered to the last gasp in faith and obedience Mira sed non vera canis 4. Your fourth Argument at length and not in figures proposed from 71. to 73. Sect 58 hath nothing in it but what for the most part even by me hath been often confuted you impose upon your readers but prove nothing As for what you say about the respectivenesse of Gods counsell as it relates to Christ p. 71. Counsell as it implies consultation and debates cannot properly be ascribed to God 2. It might relate to Christ as head of the predestinate or the chief yea the only meritorious cause and means of the executing of praedestination yet be no meritorious cause of the decree it selfe The praedestinate were chosen in Christ not because they had faith obedience but that they might obtein them for Christs sake The rest about the intentionality of Christs merits universall grace and redemption Christs invitations warnings c. we have found and dealt with all so often as that I have not a mind to salute them now as hasting to my wonted rest But as for that which you now