admitted in some others â—t in a scholler that pretends to haâ— reade the Question in him and â—â—th vrge his authoritie against the â—hurch of God such a pretence â—th no place §. III. Waldensis yeilding to the Scripture a preminence in Authoritie will haue vs depend â—on the Church for the sence of it 2. She is â—o to declare which bookes are Canonicall â—ripture A speach of Canus touching Walâ—sis his Opinion examined 3. When he saith 〈◊〉 Fathers testimonie hath abolished all Heâ—â—es he doth not exclude the Authoritie of 〈◊〉 Church symbolicall or representatiue 4 â—e symbolicall Church he saith against Wiâ—ef is not the Predestinated people only but 〈◊〉 Vniuersitie of right beleeuers spred ouer the whole world 5. He held that the Church of Rome cannot faile 6. and that perfect oecumenicall Councels be infallible in their decree HAecipsa fides authoritas Ecclesiae quantum homiâ—â— supergreditur rationem tantùm fateor diuina legis â—â—thoritati succumbit Baro p. 365. ex Waldensi Media est 〈◊〉 inter supremam authoritatem Scripturae infimam ratioâ— fides Ecclesiae Scripturas venerabiliter attollens exhibeus rationem vagam hominis ad hanc geminam authoritaâ— alligans zona Pauli Idem ex eodem 1. WALDENSIS saith the authoâ—â—tie of the Church is inferiour the authoritie of Scripture What this will you inferre that wee thâ—refore neede not obaie the decrâ—â— of Councells or that the Châ—â—ches authoritie is fallible Infallibâ—â—tie may be in others besides Scâ—â—pture The Apostles were not Scâ—â—pture yet were they infallible â—nesses of the trueth The Churcâ— the pillar and ground of trueth thoâ— the Church be not Scripture 1. Timoth. 3. Thâ— may be diuers Authorities infallâ— and one of them Subordinate to 〈◊〉 other And so are these two accâ—â—ding to this Author as you may â—by the places represented in the a Quamuis fides vniuersalis Ecclesiae inuenitur per Scripturas expressa ficut est paenè tota non tamen est eiâ—n authoritate par sed subijcitur Waldensis de principijs fidei Doctr tomo 1. li. 2. c. 21. Fides vt est Ecclesiae Catholicae in hoc accedit fidei Scripturarum quod non licet de ipsa dubitare eo quod testimoniuÌ„ Ecclesiae Catholicae est obiectuÌ„ fidei Christianae legis latio scripturae canonicae Subijcitur tamen ipsi sicut testis iudici testimonium veritati sicut praeconâ—zatio definitioni sicut praeco regi Ibâ—dem Quod aliquis pater vnus singulariter per se sensit potes aliquo saltem colore tuo decredere quod autem poenè omnes quasi vnus homo loquuntur fidei robur habet quia vnitas ipsa in Ecclesia hoc loquitur omnium gentium linguis Idem c. 25. margine One onely I will putt here because it serues also for that which followes In the 18. Chapter of his 2. Booke Doct. Fid. he declares how the sinceritie of the Churches testimonie in matters of faith is beleeued in the Creed there where we professe to beleeue the holie Catholike Church and amongst other things to this purpose hath these words Before the written Gospell this in the heart of the Church was the Gospell which Iesus Christ wrote and which the Apostles wrote in the harts of men and to whose testimonie euerie one must stand in the controuersies whether the text of the written Gospell be vnderstood or taken by the faithfull or subuerted by the Heretick whereof the Apostle speaks to the Corinthians saying â—ow are our Epistle written in your hearts which is knowne and read of all men declared that you are the Epistle of Christ manifested by vs and written not with inke but by the spicit of the liuing God not in tables of stone but in fleshlie tables of the heart And a litle after Though the law of nature which men beare written in their hearts be most certaine yet much more hath the law of Christ certissimum interpretamentum a most certaine interpretation in the hearts of the faithfull succeeding one another from the beginning of the rising Church and the Apostles times foreuer according to that of the Prophet this is the testament which I will make to them giuing my lawes in their hearts and in their sense or minde I will write them I must not omitt to putt you further in minde that in the place by you cited he saith b Haec ipsa fides Ecclesiae eius authoritas quantum hominum supergreditur rationem tantum fateor diuinâ— legis authoritati succumbit sed tamen quaâ— minoris esse authoritatis fidelibus si eam Ecclesia non praeferret Waâ—d to 3. de Sacramentalibus tit 7. c. 63. Si verum sem per sit testimonium Ecclesiae semper credenda est si quandoqâ—â— fallere consueta in omnibus est suspecta Ibidem the diuine law were vnto the faithfull * Non licet de ipsa dubitare c. vide in Addit of lesse authoritie if the Church did not preferre it And c Hoc est quod superius dixi quantumlibet eminent Scriptura diuina sanctioni Ecclesiae ipsa tamen taxabeâ— se sum eius quo aliter sentire non possis cuius interpraetationi resistere capitalis est culpa dicit Origenes Ibidâ—â— howmuch soeuer the diuinâ— scripture is higher then the decree of â—he Church ipsa tamen sensum eius â—axabit she notwithstanding shall deâ—ne the sense wherein thou maiest not â—old otherwise and whose interpretaâ—â—on to resist is as Origen speakes a â—apitall offence So he AD Concilium vniuersale praecipué pertinet definire qui liber sit canonicus Quam quidem propositionem aequo aniâ—o paterer ab haereticis non admitti sed illud tamen doleo veheâ—enter quod eam nonnulli fideles inficiantur in quibus Thoâ—as Waldensis esse videtur li. 2. doc fid c. 19. Baro. p. 365. ex â—no Addit Baro c. 20. 21. SEcondlie it is obiected that he denies to the Church now â—â—esent power to determine which â—â—e bookes of scripture And for this â—â—e cited three Chapters of his 2. â—â—oke Doct. Fid. the 19. 20. and 21. â—ut there I finde it not He doth inâ—ed hold that the Catholick Churh â—â—d no other is able to d Et hoc est secundum dictuÌ„ gloriosum de Ecclesia quod sc ipsa sola est cuius testimoniuÌ„ est tantae authoritatis praeconij vt ipsos libros diuinarum scripturaruÌ„ taxare decoruÌ„ authoribus certificare possit fideles nec fas erit tanto testimonio contraire wald li. 2. doct fid c. 20. Incertum ergo esse non potest cos esse libros canonicos habere pondus authoritatissuae quibus Ecclesia declarata per omnes gentes ab Apostolis propagata testimoniuÌ„ certum reddit Ibidem Dico quod Ecclesia eam doctrinam docet esse credeÌ„dam sub poena contumaciae Ea dico quae praesens est quae iudicia directa
intellecta vel à nobis S. Aug epist 111. Other bookes haue not in euerie part that infallibilitie other writers haue not such ample assistance as the Sacred writers had SI diuinarum scripturarum earum sc quae canonicae in Ecclesia nominantur perspicua firmatur authoritate sine vllae dubitatione credendum est Alijs verò testibus vel testimonijs quibus aliquid credendum esse suadetur tibi credere vel non credere liceat quantum ea momenti ad faciendam fidem vel habere vel non habere perpenderis Baro p. 336. ex Aug. epist 112. 2. THe Second exception is that S. Augustine in an other place Epist 112. speakes not of writings only but of witnesses and leaues it as it is pretended in our choise whether wee will beleeue or not beleeue any but the Scripture Wherevnto I answer that he doth not either there or in any other place of his writings reiect all authoritie or testimonie that is other in your sence binding vs onlie to the scripture so as you pretend For it is manifest that he doth admit the testimonie of the Church as infallible esteeming it c S. August epist. 118. c. 5. most insolent madnes to contradict it yet the Church is not scripture To this purpose there be many places in him whereof I will cite one In his booke de Vnit. Eccl. disputing with an heretick about the Question of rebaptizing such as out of the Church had been baptized and vrging the custome of the Church which did receaue such as were penitent into communion without rebaptizing he makes this discourse d S. Aug. de vnit Eccles c. 19. If some wise man to whom our Lord Iesus giues testimonie should be consulted of vs in this Question wee ought no waies to doubt of doing or putting in execution what he tould vs least wee should be esteemed to repugne not so much him as our Lord Iesus Christ by whose testimonie he was commended now our Lord Iesus doth giue testimonie to his Church wherefore as that Church diffused thorough all Nations beginning at Hierusalem doth receaue such penitents so without all windings and tergiuersation thou art to be receaued And if thou wilt not thou doest most perniciouslie cōtrarie to thy owne saluation striue against not me or any mā but our Sauiour himselfe whilst thou wilt not beleeue that thou art so to be admitted as that Church which he whom not to beleeue thou doest confesse to be detestable commends with his testimonie doth admit The same is confirmed out of the Gospell wherein our blessed sauiour saith to his Apostles and Disciples and in them to the Church that they should beare e Matth. 24. Ioan. 15 testimonie of him yet the Apostles the Disciples the whole Church be not Scripture Againe f Luc. 10. he that heareth you heareth me saith our Sauiour he that contemneth you contemneth me There is therefore an authoritie aliue and distinct from the written word which wee must yeeld vnto by S. Augustine also confessed and consequentlie it is not in our choise to beleeue or contemne any but the scripture Nor were the primitiue Christians without obligation of beleeuing the Gospell proposed vnto them by the Apostles before it was written downe as you knowe by those words which immediatelie followe their commission g Marc. vlt. he that beleeueth not shall be condemned To the place obiected Supra pag 107. alijs testibus vel testmonijs quibus aliquid credendum esse suadetur tibi creder◠vel non credere liceat quantum ea momenti c. Pag. 108. his words aboue cited doe suggest an easie answer as this Others not commended by this authoritie beleeue or not beleeue as you see cause but others commended by this authoritie you must beleeue as farre as by it they are warranted and commended Our Sauiour proued that those who beleeued Moyses and the Prophets and the Psalmes must beleeue him for of him they giue testimonie The like it is of the Church if you beleeue the Prophets you must beleeue the vniuersall Church for they giue testimonie of it and as S. Augustine saith more cleere then of our i S. Augu. Enarr in psal 30. conc 2. Sauiour himselfe One testimonie may warrant another and so they will become in a manner one He that obaieth the magistrate doth therein honour the Prince by whom he is put in authoritie And he that yeildeth all due reuerence to Princes doth therein a dutie vnto God who commands it Wee stoope to God when with all reuerence we receaue his word written or vnwritten and wee submit our selues to the written word or Scripture when wee listen to the Church which the Scripture doth commend When S. Augustine in his dispute with Cresconius about rebaptization was come this k S. Aug. li. 1. contra Cresco c. 31. 32. quia nec vos potestis proferre de Scripturis quarum nobis communis est authoritas ab haereticis venientem denuò baptizatum nec nos ita susceptum quantum ad hanc remattinet par nobis causa est Since neither you can produce out of Scriptures whose authoritie is common to vs one comming from Heretikes againe baptized nor wee one so receaued for as much as concernes this matter that is producing out the Scripture an example of the one or the other our cause is equall he shewes notwithstanding how euen in this point the Church in his time and he with it followed the most certaine authoritie of the Scripture l Ibidem c. 35. neque enim paruï momenti c. for it is not of small regard or moment that whe among the Bishops of the age precedent to the time when Donatus part or faction began to be this Question did wauer and had the different Opiniōs of compartners or collegues amongst themselues without breach of vnitie it was thought good that this which wee now maintaine should be obserued by the whole Catholike Church spred ouer all the world And a litle after wherefore though trulie there be not any example of this thing brought out of the canonicall Scriptures yet the truth of the same Scriptures is held of vs and euen in this thing when wee doe that which hath now seemed good to the vniuersall Church whom the authoritie of the same Scriptures doth commend that because the holie Scripture cannot deceaue whosoeuer feares to be deceaued with the obscuritie of this Question and of any other obscure Question pertaining to faith it is the same eandem Ecclesiam de illa consulat let him require in it the iudgment of the same Church which the holie Scripture without ambiguitie doth demonstrate There is yet a further Answer in the word Alijs You know that actions donne with ones owne hād by the motion of his owne spirit a man reputes not aliene but his owne So doth our B. Sauiour esteeme the actions of his mysticall bodie donne by the motion of his Spirit Settle
sooth be the men that in the pulpits crie so lowde who disesteeming the whole world besides obtrude themselues as masters of mankind each an Oracle I know you wash your hands your words condemne their insolencie you will not seeme to participate of their fault But what is in your heart Are not you too one of those that abbet a priuate judgment against a publike You plead against the power of the Church to determine matter of faith in her generall assemblies that I see And I know too that you punish men for not conforming themselues to the determinations of one not generall Reconcile these if you can And tell me if I be not bound to conforme my judgment to the judgment of a Councell when it is perfectlie oecumenicall what shall binde me to conforme it vnto one that is onelie Nationall if the Decrees of the whole Church may be lawfullie refused what obligeth me in conscience and before God to receaue the Decrees of your Conuocation Is euerie subiect bound to be of his Princes Religion or is it lawfull for him to subscribe against that he knowes to be the truth Is England since you began to teach growne bigger then all the world is a part is was not of old so bigger then the whole In way of excuse for your not subscribing to decrees oecumenicall you plead the Authoritie of some fewe men how vniustlie heareafter it will appeare and shall not the Authoritie of farre more and those great Schollers excuse vs in conscience for not subscribing to your priuate Articles wherein be many things generallie condemned in former ages To giue instance in one point that containes many In your 23. article you determine thus The Sacrifices of Masses in the which was commonlie said that the Priests did offer Christ for the quick and the dead to haue remission of paine or guilt were blasphemous fables and dangerous deceits So you Yet was this Sacrifice frequented f Missa abominatio in calice aureo propinata omnes reges terra populos à summo vsque ad nouissimum sic inebriauit vt proram puppim suae salutis in hac vna voragine statuerint Caluin Instit li. 4. c. 18. See the Protest Apol. tract 3. Sect. 1. and in the Conclusion to the Iudges Sect. 6. 10. generallie when Luther began to make your Schisme It was auowed in the g S. Iren. li. 4. c. 32. Noui testamenti Nouam docuit oblationem quam Ecclesia ab Apostolis accipiens in vniuerso mundo offert Deo Concil Nicenum 1. can 14. S. Cyrill cum eo Concil Ephes in Anathem 11. S. Augu. Conc. 1. in Psalm 33. Nondum erat sacrificium Corporis Sanguinis Domini quod nunc diffusum est toto orbe terrarum S. Ambros de Sacram. li. 4. 5 S. Cyrill Catech. myst 5 S. Chrysost lib. 3. 6. de Sacerdotio Hom. 17. in Epist ad Hebraeos His Liturgie is yet extant And so is S. Basils too S. Gregor Nyssen Hom. 1. de Resurr Praeoccupat impetum violentum ac sese in oblationem victimam offert pro nobis Sacerdes simul agnus Dei. Vide Disp li. 5 c. 9 Coccium in Thesanro t 2. li. 6. a. 4. times primitiue And our Sauiours h This is my bodie which is broken for you This is the blood of the new testament which is shed for you words registred in the i 1. Cor. 11. Matt. 26. That it was offered for the quick and the dead it is also testified abundantlie S. Epiphan Haeres 75 where he saith also the Church receaued it by tradition S. Cyrill Cathec 5. Pro omnibus oramus qui ante nos vita functi sunt maximum credentes animarum iuuamen pro quibus offertur obsecratio sancti illius tremendi quod ante nos iacet Sacrificij S. Chrysost Homil. 3 in Epist ad Phil. Non frustra hac ab Apostolis sunt legibus constituta vt in venerandis inquam atque horrisicis mysterijs memoria corum fiat qui decesserunt nouerant hinc multum ad illos lucri accedere multum vtilitatis S. August in Enchirid. ad Laurent c. 110. lib. de cura pro mort c. 1. c. 4. Non sunt praetermittenda supplicationes pro Spiritibus mortuorum vt quibus ad ista desunt parentes aut filij ab vna is exhibeatur â—ia matre Ecclesia Lib. 9. Confess c. 13. Meminerint ad altare tuum Monica famulae tuae cum Patritio quondam eius coniuge c. S. Ioan. Damasc Orat. quod defuncti Missis inuentur Quod quidem citra vllam controuersiam Catholica Apostolica Ecclesia sine vlla ambiguitate retinet c. Vt consuetudinis testem â—llum cito The like appeares by the Liturgies Where obserue that I reflect preciselie vpon the termes of your Article which condemneth vnbloodie Sacrifice offered by the Priest for the Quick and the Dead to haue remission of paine or guilt If this be a blasphemous fable the whole world was in Errour So commonlie was it said and esteemed lawfull and so vniuersallie frequented See further Gualterius his Chronographicall table verit decima The Protestants Apol. tract 1. Sect. 3. subd 4. and Sect. 7. subd 6. The Conference of Cath. and Prot. doct li. 2. c. 24. angl Bible being vnderstood in their natiue proper sence do k What necessitie there is to enquire into the true sence of these words This is my bodie will best appeare in the after-examination of the diuers consequences of your owne sence to wit your doctrine of transsubstantiation corporall and materiall presence propitiatorie sacrifice and proper adoration all which depend vpon your Romish exposition of the former words of Christ The issue then wâ—ll be this that if the words be certainelie true in a proper and litterall sence then wee are to yeild to you the whole cause Morton Instit. of Masse li. 2. c. 1. I omit to note how Luther who did impugne the Sacrifice of Masse had his instructions from the Deuil as doth appeare still by his owne booke de Missa Priuata p. 228 Ego coram vobis And p. 230 â— â—n summa Edit Wittemb anno 1558. where he puts dâ—wne the Deuils arguments amongst which one is against vnbloodie Sacrifice Contra institutionem Christi Missa vsus es pro Sacrificio c. §. quarto confessedlie make for and confirme it Now should wee subscribe to your Article wee should contradict all this Wee should contradict open Scripture interpreted by the whole Christian world and by the l And this Spirit is the Holie Ghost Ioh. 14. 16. Spirit in it And whilst you sollicite vs so to do what do you but abbet a priuate Spirit and this too importunelie vnseasonablie then when you denie to the whole Church power to define the veritie euen of this cause or to declare the sence of Scripture touching it in her Councels oecumenicall I am not disposed
dicens Eccâ—â—go vobiscum sum omnibus diebus Non dixit recum sum sc cum aliqua singulari persona sed vobiscum sum cum toâ—a Ecclesia Catholica Apostolica quae seduci non potest â—ec seducere habet fidele testimonium de Christo noâ—it omnia mysteria Sponsi sui cap. 19. vide etiam suprà pag. 49. certaine testimonie to the truth Wee cannot addresse our selues to the Predestinate for instruction â—or absolution for orders wee know not who they be nor how to finde theÌ„ out They be not the Symbolicall * wickliffs Argument The predestinate do perseuer in the faith Ergo they be the Symbolicall Church Is like this A mans soule is rationall Ergo a mans soule is a man Church they haue not all â—he conditions of it Neither is any â—articular Church or Congregation The Church symbolicall no not a Geâ—erall Councell A Councell is not â—till in being they be celebrated only sometimes whereas the Symbolicall Church is to be still So likewise is the Church diffused or Vniuersall Dan. 2. Matth. 16. Ioan. 14. Ephes 4. And against a Councell or a particular Church he that were disposed to cauill would pretend that faith were not allwaies in it and it therefore at that time no Church for Ecclesia is fidelium congregatio whereas the Church symbolicall is in 〈◊〉 times neuer failing which thing notwithstanding doth agree well vnto the Church vniuersall which is in 〈◊〉 times existent and in faith indeficient Esay 59. Ierem. 31. Ezech. 37. Dan. 1 Matth. 16. 28. Ioan. 14. 16. Tiâ— 1. ep 3. c. Ephes 4. She only hath * The predestinated preciselie haue them not all See the Disp li. 1. c. 5. 6. 7. li. 2 c. 2. 3 li. 3. c. 1. 6. 〈◊〉 the conditions of and indeed is thâ— symbolicall Church This construction of the wordâ— of Waldensis to one that reads thâ— whole discourse in him is plaiâ— and obuious This which hetherto I haue described This I saie thâ— Catholik and Apostolicall Church 〈◊〉 Christ the mother of beleeuing people which hath faith indeficient accordinâ— to the promise of Christ to Peter 〈◊〉 â—hen did beare the figure of the Church I haue asked for thee Peter that thy faith doth not faile is the symbolicall Church Hauing established this tenet he presentlie drawes from it an inference Non est ergo c. that being the vniuersall Church it is not anie particular as the African or the Roman particular Church or Dioces vide Disput pag. 619. ex Innoc 3. These are no more the symbolicall Church then particulars are the vniuersall Neither it is a generall synod such haue erred sometimes one at Ariminum another at Constantinople and some others But it is the Catholik Church of Christ dispersed ouer all the world come downe from the baptisme of our Sauiour by the Apostles and others their successors to thâ—se times which Catholik Church verilie doth containe veram fidem true faith there is one thing required to the Symbolicall Church and that which Wickleff also thought necessarie but that is not all and testimonium Christi fidele the faithfull testimonie of Christ there is an other and the exercise of both followes giuing wisdome to the litle ones amongst extreame errours retaining the truth firme The Deuil by wickleff suggested pestilent inuentions to abbet Rebellion and Schisme Praescitus non habetpotestatem c. Nullus est Dominus ciuilis nullus est Praelatus nullus est Episcopus dum est in peccato mortali Recitantur in Concilio Constant Sess 8. apud Wald. passim See aboue pag. 50. lit r. Here is the sence of his words to the full and for my part I see no more in them But you that can gase vpon chimeraes would persuade vs there are two things for your purpose the one that the Church of Rome may faile or erre and the other that no Generall Councells haue infallibilitie The former of these you ground vpon that part of his inference nec vtique particularis illa Romana neither also is it the particular Roman Church the later vpon those other quam Synodum aliquoties errasse percepimus c. which Synod wee haue vnderstood sometimes to haue erred as that of Ariminum gathered vnder Taurus the Prefect and that Constantinopolitan vnder Iustinian the yonger and some other These two parcels then and his opinion in these two points are next to be considered I take them in order 5. Nec vtique aa Suprà ad lit q. particularis illâ— Romana The forme of speach is negatiue and the author by it denieâ— something of the Roman Church aâ— â—s a particular Church the Queâ—on since you will needs make a â—estion of it is Whether he denies â—o be the Symbolicall Church as it â—eares he doth by what hath â—ne said of this place hetherto or â—ether he denies it perpetuall conâ—ncie in the faith and indefectibiliâ— In answer to which question if â—u turne to the 48. Chapter whose â—e is de praerogatiua perpetuae immuâ—atis Romanae Ecclesiae in fide Christi â—ab omni bb contagione haeresis illibatae Locus ergo vnde fluxit ab exordio sapientia Chriâ—na Romana est Ecclesia Ab hac enim praestatur huâ—nae inertiae dirigendae assistriâ— sapientia sedium diuinaâ—n vt nobiscum sit nobiscum laboret vt sciamus quid â—eptum sit coram Deo omni tempore Walden to 1. li. c. 48. Quomodo erit vna fides quando pro captu suo â—squisque varia meditatur inuenit nisi vno magistro â—ante vnus doceat paedagogus Ille puta quem ad hoc â—cium prae caeteris Christus elegit dum diceret Ego rogaâ—ro te Petre vt non deficiat fides tua Ibidem Et quid miâ— si Christo rogante Romana Ecclesia non potest in fide â—cere non est magnum Haeretice non est magnum vt â—od per se caderet Christo sustentante non possit cadere â—dem Ergo audacter dico in Christi nomine Christo â—ante Romanam Ecclesiam in doctrina Christi esse imâ—cabilem Ibidem Interrogat quis vnde Romanae Eccleâ— tanta authoritas Mihi videtur ex concessione Chriâ— ad confessionem Petri primi Pontificis Primus enim confessor fuit diuinae generationis c. quomodo ergo 〈◊〉 dubijs fidei ad illam de fide consulendam non curritur 〈◊〉 per quam totam Ecclesiam suam Christus fundasse coâ—uincitur Ibidem you shall finde auouched anâ— proued that Ecclesia Romana non pâ—test in fide deficere the Church 〈◊〉 Rome cannot faile in the faith Aâ— further I affirme boldlie in the naâ— of Christ and Christ aiding the Româ— Church that it is in the doctrine 〈◊〉 Christ impeccable The origen of thâ— he refers there to our Sauiouâ— prayer and his graunt and conclâ—ding the Chapter he saith cc Ibidem vide Sixt. Sen. in Cyr. Pits
also by his instigation seemeth good to vs. That he did acknowledg infallibilitie in sincere approued Councells it is further manifest by that he held of the Popes iudgmeÌ„t If he thought the resolution of doubts in faith were to be made by him and that his decision was a truth so certaine that it could not be gainesaid he without question made no lesse esteeme of a generall and approued Councell wherein the Popes iudgment and determination is included and consequentlie when he questions or reiects the authoritie of Councells he meanes not those wherein the Pope defines or such as he approues and so not all that are vnder the name of generall but some onelie as hath beene said before Now that he had that estimation which I haue mentioned of the Popes iudgment and dedefinition it is manifest by the 47. Chapter where professedlie he doth vndertake to proue it bringing to this purpose manie testimonies out of S. Augustine S. Hierome Rufinus Origen the Bishops of Africk and others The title of the Chapter is Quod Papa habet ab antiquo potestatem insringibilem ad determinandum fidei veritates debellandum cancellandum omnes falsitates haereticas And in the verie nn Orthodoxi omnes ad iudices Christi currunt vicarios ordinatè requirunt vt tandem planam teneant veritatem Propter hoc enim vt verè credunt licet Doctores vltra eos Episcopos inter omnes mortales singillatim acceptos petere Papam cuius moderameÌ„ decisio pro irrefragabili vero tenebatur à Patribus Apud ipsum enim piè credebant totius fidei nostrae latere mysteria pectus eius imbutum butyro illo prophetico quo sciret reprobare malum eligere bonum Walden to 1. li. 2. c. 47. Nouit Hieronymus apud Papam Romanum authoritatem este ad emendandum fidem incongruam vel ad probandum Catholicam postquam à tanto Apostolatu haberetur vt recta sine dubio foret per null â—maltum violanda Ad eiusdem quoque Damasi Papa doctrinam tanquam ad infallibilem fidei regulam Catholici Episcopi illo tempore suos aduersarios haereticos coëgerunt Ibidem vbi etiam refert illud quod suprà dictum est ex Hier. de Sancti Marci Euangelio per Sanctum Petrum approbato beginning he saith Papae moderamen decisio pro irrefragabili vero tenebatur à Patribus the Popes direction and decision was by the Fathers marke that by the Fathers held for a truth which cannot be contradicted To the same purpose are manie things added in the next Chapter which is of the prerogatiue of perpetuall immunitie in the Church of Rome where amonge other things he saith that oo Propter hanc incorruptionem claritatem famosam omnes viri Catholici quantumcunque magni quantumlibet sancti simul authoritate territi magnae sedis ab hac susceperunt in dubijs fidei documenta terrifica cap. 48. all Catholick men how great how holie soeuer haue from that See receaued documents in doubts of faith and that it is as he speakes in the words of Cyrill stabilita inquassabiliter so established that it cannot be moued or shaken and more to the same purpose which in the additions you may reade So that I may leaue this as sufficientlie demonstrated out of his booke that you were mistaken in the sence of the words obiected Out of that which hath beene related from him it appeares also that I may leaue a note for such as vpon this occasion may chaunce hereafter to looke on him first that he puts diuers degrees of adhesion deuines expresse it by certitudo maior maior ex parte subiecti respectiuelie to verities diuerslie proposed Secondlie thar with him these proponents are infallible vizt the Church symbolicall that part of it which is now present including both Pastors and people a perfect and syncere generall Councell and the Church of Rome as it is head or the Pope defining Thirdlie that the Pope Councell and present Church when it will seeke the veritie of anie point of faith called into question or the authoritie of any writing or scripture to knowe whether it be diuine or no is to looke into the symbolicall Church which hath all the Christian lawe with the meaning written in her heart by the spirit of the liuing God and there to finde it not in euerie page of this greate booke not expressed in the faith of euerie part but in the booke And if after the search made it be proposed by the Pope in a generall Councell by the present Church receaued or by the Pope in Councell to the Church all are according to his principles to receaue and to beleeue it Fourthlie that the present Church finding and proposing the veritie and the symbolicall in whom she finds it beleeuing and testifying the same doe make vp one organ where by the holie Ghost the spirit of truth doth auouch it to the world Fiftlie that besides the authorities before mentioned all contained in the Church wherein our sauiour pp Ego vobiscum omnibus diebus Mat 28. qui loquitur in me Christus 2 Corim 13. Parecletum dabit vobis vt maneat vobiscum in aeteâ—nuÌ„ spiritum veritatis Ioh 14. In vobis erit Ibidem Non enim vos estis qui loquimini sed Spiritus Patris vestri qui loquitur in vobis Matt. 10. likewise and his spirit be there be in it also diuers other degrees of authoritie as of generall Councells not including the Popes approbation not by the Church or him disapproued of particular Churches especiallie qq Ecclesiarum Catholicarum inter quas sanê illae quae Apostolicas sedes habere epistolas accipere meruerunt c. S. Aug. 2. Doct. Chri. c. 8. such as the Apostles haue liued in and amongst them chieflie the Roman though considered with abstraction from the Popes authoritie by reason of the traditions left in her by the two great Apostles S. Peter and S. Paul of nationall or prouinciall Synods and the like all which according to this Author haue their waight though not the same with the Pope in Councell I omit to pleade further that Waldensis was at Constance in the Councell whereof I spake before treating of Cameracensis and passe vnto the next §. IV. 1. Panormitan the Lawier speakes of a Councell not approued by the Pope nor by the Church diffused which Councells the Question meddles not withall 2. It were possible he thinks for God considering his absolute power to conserue the true faith in one man or woman 3. Antoninus his mind touching Councells PVto tamen quod si Papa moueretur melioribus rationibus authoritatibus quà m Concilium quod standum esset sententiae suae Nam Concilium potest errare sicut aâ—ià s errauit super matrimonium contrahendum inter raptorem raptum Et infrà Nec obstat si dicatur quod Concilium Generale non potest
thus if wee confesse that one faith to be true which the whole Church thorough the world doth acknowledg And antiquitie thus if wee doe not in any sort goe back from those sences which it is manifest that our holie Auncestors and Fathers haue celebrated and commended and Censent likewise if wee followe the definitions and decrees of all or neere all the priests and masters in Antiquitie And d Quid igitur faciet Christianus Catholicus si se aliqua Ecclesiae particula ab vniuersalis fidei communione praeciderit quid vtique nisi vt pestisero corruptoque meÌ„bro sanitatem vniuersi corporis anteponats quod si nouella aliqua coÌ„tagia non iam portiunculam tantum sed totam pariter Ecclesiam commaculare conetur locum hunc corruperuÌ„t Wittaker Vitus haeretici tunc item prouidebit vt antiquitati inhaereat quae prorsus iaÌ„ non potest vlla nouitatis fraude seduci Quid si in ipsa vetustate duorum aut trium hominuÌ„ vel certè ciuitatis vnius aut etiam prouinciae alicuius error deprehendatur Tunc omnino curabit vt paucoruÌ„ temeritati vel inscitiae fi qua sunt vniuersaliter antiquitus vniuersalis Ecclesiae decreta praeponat Quid si tale aliquid emergat vbi nihil huiusmodi reperiatur Tuuc operam dabit vt collatas inter se MaioruÌ„ coÌ„sulat interrogeâ—que sententias eorum duÌ„taxat qui diuersis licet teÌ„poribus locis in vnius tameÌ„ Ecclesiae Catholica communione fide permanentes magistri probabiles extiterunt quicquid noÌ„ vnus aut duo taÌ„tum sed omnes pariter vno eodemque coÌ„senâ—â— apertè frequeÌ„ter perseueranter tenuisse scripsisse docuisse cognouerit id sibi quoque intelligat absque vlla dubitatione credendum Vinc Lyrin c. 4. more he hath to the same purpose He liued in the yeare 440. and before he wrote this booke there had been three generall Councells whose decrees though not made the * Nicenum anno 325. first of them much more then a hundred yeeres before him he â—umbers amongst the records of anâ—iquitie which are to be looked into And in like manner the decrees maâ—e 200. 500. 1000. yeares before vs â—ake place and order in the records â—f antiquitie respectiuelie to our times the distance of precedence â—eing more then was the distance of any Councell precedent respectiuelie vnto him You are further to obserue that â—o the vniuersalitie of a truth he doth not require that it be distinctlie beleeued of all that professe Christian religion some haue professed it who beleeued not the blessed Trinitie others denied the Incarnation the greatest mysteries were not Catholick in this sense neither doth â—he require that a point or veritie which is Catholik be such that it hath been expreslie and distinctlie beleeued of all Catholiks at all times the Catholick Epistles in this sence e Vide Disp pag. 431. An excellent lesson for these times were not all Catholick but his meaning is as I insinuated before that a sence or veritie appertaining to faith which is beleeued by the Symbolicall that is by the vniuersall catholike Church either allwaies or at any time for it can neuer erre in diuine faith or which the Fathers haue vniformelie in their times and ages taught and professed or which hath beene defined by all or neere all the Pastors those which are to teach in a generall councell is to be receaued as a Catholick sense Twice in that little booke herepeates againe this matter of finding out the Catholik sense by antiquitie consenting either in Councell or out of Councell and by vniuersalitie and in both places the definition of generall Councells and their authoritie comes in As in the 38. chapter where giuing direction how to auoid hereticks who like the Deuil vrge Scriptures against the truth in this case saith he Catholikes shall take greate care that they interprete the diuine canon according to the traditions of the vniuersall Church and according to the rules of the Catholike doctrine or decree wherein likewise it is necessarie that they follow the vniuersalitie antiquitie and consent of the Catholick Church And if at any time a part doth rebell against the whole noueltie against antiquitie or the disagreement of one or some fewe erring persons against the consent of all or at least of farre more Catholikes let them preferre the integritie of the whole before the corruption of the part And in the same whole the religion of antiquitie before the prophanesse of noueltie as also in antiquitie it selfe let them preferre before the rashnes of a verie fewe f primuÌ„ omnium generalia si qua sunt vniuersalis coÌ„cilij decreta praeponant tuÌ„c deinde si id minus est sequantur quod proximum est multorum atque magnoruÌ„ consentientes sibi sententias magistrorum Vincent Lirin c 38. first of all if any be the generall decrees of an oecumenicall Councell then after if that be not let theÌ„ followe that which is next to wit the sentences or opinions of many and great masters consenting amonge themselues In the next chapter he tells what Fathers those must be whose opinions wee take they must be g Idem c. 39. orthodoxe such as liuing piouslie in the Catholike faith and communion and remaining constant haue died in Christ or happilie bene put to death for him and those he saith are so to be beleeued that what soeuer either all or the greater part haue established or confirmed receauing holding or deliuering with one and the same meaning manifestlie oft constantlie as it were in a certaine councell of masters agreeing among themselues the same is to be esteemed certaine and vndoubted And againe in the h Idem c. 40. next Hos in Ecclesia Dei diuinitus per tempora loca dispensatos quisquis in sensu Catholici dogmatis vnum aliquid in Christo sentientes contempserit non hominem contemnit sed Deum He that contemnes these fathers diuinelie distributed according to times and places in the Church of God agreeing in Christ in the sence of a Catholick point of doctrine he contemneth not man but God So greate hee esteemeth this authoritie of the fathers and masters which God hath dispensed not at one but in seuerall times and yet the generall decrees of an oecumenicall Councell with him haue i c. 38. vt suprà the precedence primum omnium generalia si qua sint vniuersalis Concilij decreta praeponant tunc deinde si id minus est sequantur quod proximum est multorum at que magnorum consentientes sibi sententias magistrorum Againe in the 41. chapter he repeates a second time the same matter of finding out the Catholike sence by antiquitie consenting in Councell or out of Councell where he speakes yet more home k Diximus in ipsa Ecclesiae vetustaâ—e duo quaeâ—am vehementer studioseque obseruaÌ„da quibus penitus inhaerere deberent quicunque haeretici esse nolunt PrimuÌ„ si
he which contemneth you coÌ„temneth me wee must beleeue that when all deliuer one and the same thing as Gods word or meaning vnto the world then without all doubt our Sauiour speakes by them and he who heares or contemnes them doth heare or contemne Iesus Christ whose ministers and Embassadors they be 2. Corint 5. Neither doe you satisfie this argument by saying that you will heare them if they speake according to the word of God Disput li. 3. c. 1. 2. for therein you challenge vnto your selfe without warrant that which you denie to the whole clergie who in the Apostles were bid teach and had the promise of assistance and in the Question Whether they or you haue the true sence of Gods word as of this This is my body you most arrogantlie doe make your selfe the iudge Your selfe I say without the Spirit denying in the meane time and impugning the power of iudging in this case in and to them which haue and shewe the promise of the Spirit Vt Diodorum ac Theod. non expellereÌ„t PP aut inuenerunt eos iam mutasse sententiam aut quod extremum est admonitos mutate fecerunt Nam aliter coâ— in Ecclesia Catholica manere potuisse quis sapiens Catholicus credat Cum verò tanta quae dicta sunt ego indoctus Latinae linguae de causa apud Graecos habita post centum annos pro meo captu facultate vel intelligere vel explicare potuerim quanta credendum est illam Sanctorum Patrum Congregationem in causa penes se recenti memoria cognoscere potuisse illo etiam reuelante qui dixit Vbi sunt duo vel tres congregati in nomine meo ibi in medio eorum sum Nam fideliter inuocatus non solum à Sacerdotibus sed ab omni quoque populo suo cuius fides expectatio ex illorum Authoritate dependet dat omnibus congregatis vnum cor animam vnam vt nullus eorum suam velit esse sententiam nisi quae fuerit veritatis Quoâ—ies ibi doctiores indoctioribus plures paucioribus illo eorum medio cedunt Qâ—oties etiam per nescientes scienter operatur ipse qui potest omnia facere supra quam petimus aut intelligimus qui promisit quòd nobiscum sit omnibus diâ—bus vsque ad consummationem saeculi Vtinam sibi nunquam saecularis potestas quod ei creditum non est in his negotijs vsurparet quae nunquam faeliciter vsurpauit Caeterùm congregatis in suo nomine Christus deesse non potest quia cùm sit omnipotens Veritas mentiri nullatenus potest Facund Episc Defens Chalced. Concilij li 8. c. 7. Et in eandem sententiam plura li. 12. c. 2. inter alia verò de sancto Leone dicit Neque vlterius retractare neque discutere se posse professus est ea quae semel fuerant Chalcedonensi definita Concilio velut quae nosset non tam humano quà m diuino Spiritu constituta This Father as also S. Aug. when they saie God reueales vnto the Councell vse the word something largelie in the sence imported in the promise of Assistance docebit vos suggeret vobis See the Disput pag 404. See the Disput l. 3. c. 6. Fourthly he that seeth the truth of this and would yet flie Councells will imagine perchance that although the Pastors all dispersed when they consent haue the warrant of the Spirit yet not when they be gathered in a Councell But this imaginatioÌ„ argues a weaknes in coÌ„ceauing the termes which are spoken of for in this congregation or Councell there is the whole teaching-power which teaching power as hath been shewed hath and by promise diuine assistance and is to establish the rest predestinate and all in faith and true beleefe Fiftlie you will saie that in generall Councells all the Pastors or Bishops be not present if they were you would beleeue what they propose because the whole exteriour teaching-authoritie is there obliging and they shewe their warrant Luc. â—0 he that heareth you heareth me Would your fellowes doe this there were but one thing more to be disputed in this matter that is Whether it be necessarie to the generalitie of a CouÌ„cell that all the Pastors and Bishops without exception be actuallie present in it the resolution of which Question wee haue in the practice of the Apostles and of the primitiue Church so that no further difficultie can be pretended if the truth be reallie our desire and hereticall obstinacie put aside See the Disput li. 4. c. 7. 8. Against the later place which brings with it the Apostles interpretation of the promise registred in the former it is said first that although that Councell had the assistance of the holie Ghost in making of their decree so that it was his also as their words import yet others after haue it not it was you think a priuiledge in them and lasted no longer in the Church but wilst they liued This euasion is precluded both by the words and the circumstances of the graunt it was made vnto the Apostles as Pastors for establishing of the Church dedit Pastores Ephes 4. vt iam non simus paruuli fluctuantes circumferamur c. which Church needed it not onelie in the Apostles time but afterwards The Arian Sabellian Nestorian and other Heresies as other difficulties whereof some were about the most fundamentall points in the verie Creed did arise and the diuel hath not yet donne suggesting heresie and oppugning the doctrine which our Sauiour left vnto the Church and thereby impugning Him and Her wherefore still it is necessarie And accordinglie the promise was absolute without limitation of yeeres or ages Yea the text it selfe hath in aeternum Ioann 14. Ephes 4. for euer and donec occurramus omnes vntill wee meete all Secondlie it is said that vnto Pastors so assembled the holie Ghost by vertue of the promise is present assisting to fundamentall points but no further Before you would haue detracted from the graunt and wiped out of it the latitude of time now you limit it for the matter If a Lawier should vse your lease so you would exclaime that he did corrupt it WheÌ„ our Sauiour had prayed to his Father that he would establish or Sanctifie his Apostles and those who by their meanes were to beleeue in him that is his Church in the truth he did presentlie vnfould what he meant by that truth and said sermo tuus est veritas thy word the word of God is the truth and in this which comprehends not the Apostles Creed onlie he would haue theÌ„ established This sanctification is according to S. Cyrill a participation of the holy Ghost ad intelligendas rectè Scripturas Ecclesiae dogmata Cyrill Alex. in Ioan. li. 11. cap. 25. to vnderstand the Scriptures well and the doctrine of the Church In a like fullnes doth our Sauiour himselfe expresse the latitude of