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A41378 A reasonable word to the doctors of reason being some remarks on a nameless author in his pamphlet entituled The divine unity asserted : and some observations upon a short account of the proceedings of R.S., Bishop of a dissenting congregation in London ... : also a reasonable reprimand to Mr. Considerator for his foolish boasting in his letter to H.H. ... / by N. Goldham. Goldham, Nath. (Nathaniel) 1699 (1699) Wing G1019; ESTC R27671 57,116 114

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the one cannot be enlarg'd nor the other enlightned are there not ten thousand things which your reason doth not understand which are certain Truths for all that and is not God able to enlarge your Capacity and your Understanding and make that appear to be truly reasonable which now by reason of your Ignorance you can see no reason for except you will say that you have attain'd to the highest pitch of Reason and Understanding that God can give you and consequently that you are infallible in all matters of Faith and in the very Nature and Being of God And if so you would do well to turn out that doating Fool at Rome and place a wiser in the Chair and lay aside the Scriptures and Simon Magus like set up for some great one in the World I still see reason to guide my Reason by the Scriptures and therefore I believe when I see a Man wise in his own Conceit I may have more hope of a Fool than of him Now though I have reason to believe that our short Accountant and our nameless Author are Brethren in this unreasonable Work of denying that Jesus Christ is the living and true God as much as Simon and Levy were in their unreasonable Zeal Yet if my Reason fail not I think they contradict each other For our nameless Author tells us pag. 5. colume 1. that Reason is a Power or Faculty of encreasing our Knowledge by Industry whereby if we rightly proceed we may come to an absolute certainty in many things So then Reason is capable of being encreas'd and growing by Industry Hence it follows that small measures of Reason can give a Man but small Certainty in many things if in any thing how contrary is this to my Accountants third Reason whose Capacity is not to be enlarg'd nor can any thing be true that is contrary to his present Understanding but when Reason is thus improv'd my Author himself tells me and I have Reason to believe him that it is but a certainty in many things so that some things are still exempted from a certain Knowledge of by Reason according to my Doctor of Reason his own Argument And if any thing be exempted surely Reason would inform a Man that the things of God should be some of those things especially those things that concern his very Being and Nature But to return to our short Accountants Third Reason for I would not hide any of his most comely Parts nor diminish any of his strongest Reasons he proceeds in his aforesaid pretended Reason and tells us Though he is bound to believe whatever God saith is True yet it is because I have Reason so to do But saith he I cannot believe the thing God saith till I know what he saith You are very right Mr. Doctor the Devil will tell the truth sometimes but he adds nor well believe pray Mark nor well believe God saith so and so till by Reason I am assured it is true Reason can never assent to that which appears unreasonable nor can I otherwise than by Reason assure my self that the Scripture is a Divine Revelation These are his very words for as I said before I will not hide his strong Reasons The first part of this Third Reason I have Answered already but he cannot well believe God saith so and so till by Reason he is perswaded it is true If Abraham had had such a Conceit of his Reason he might have Lived and Dyed in Unbelief for ought I know to the Contrary For what Reason had he to believe he should have a Son when his own Body was as good as Dead and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of Women but the revealed Word of God and he did not say this is according to my Reason therefore I will believe what God saith no he Argued quite otherwise and said though I see no Reason for this but a great deal against it as much as ever our Accountant can pretend to be Master of Yet because it is told me by that God that cannot Lye and Almighty power being ingaged to perform it therefore I do believe it and therefore it is said Rom. 4. 18. he believed against hope and therefore against reason but he would have had hope if he had had Reason for Hope will follow Reason and it would be an unreasonable peice of Nonsence and a contradiction for a Man to say I have Reason to believe I shall have such a thing but I have no hopes of it Rom. 4. 18. Yet our Accountant will needs set up for a Master of Reason though he knows not what he speaks nor where of he doth affirm Besides in this my Accountant gives no more Honour and Glory to God by believing then he or any Man else may give to the Devil For when the Father of Lyes speaks truth and that you know he will do sometimes then you may believe him if by Reason you are assur'd it is true but God is to be Believed on the Authority of his own Word It is no wonder that Men discover themselves to be Fools when no less Folly will satisfie them then to kick against him in whom are hid all the Treasures of Wisdom and Knowledge Colos 2. 3. But I pass to my Accountants Fourth Reason in the aforesaid Third Page By Revelation saith he we are taught and it is no way contrary to Reason that this one God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ and that the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is this one God Joh. 17. 1. Very true and how forcible are right Words but what doth your Arguing either prove or reprove from this We are Taught by the Scriptures of truth that Jesus Christ is the True God and Eternal Life and that the true God is Jesus Christ 1 Ep. John 5. 20. and John 17. 1. Titus 2. 13. Now whether this be contrary to my Accountants Reason or no it is nevertheless true for all that but I see no Reason to deny the Father to be God for all this and if I should yet my Reason and the Inference would be as Justifiable as his in denying the Son to be God His Fifth Reason you have in his aforesaid Third Page for you must know they being small will lye in a little room Whenever God the Father and Christ his Son are spoken of in Scripture they are spoken of as two distinct Persons and Beings as Joh. 7. 16. It 's certain they are so as the Scripture declares them to be yet the Father the Word and the Holy Ghost are but one God for all that And he adds Though they are said to be One in some Sense yet never but in such a Sense as God and others may be said to be One viz. in Love Agreement and Will One would wonder that a Man pretending to Reason and Religion should not be ashamed to tell the World such an unreasonable untruth as this what is Christ and God the
had contradicted himself and his Argument would have been meer Nonsence and would have run thus a Man humbled himself and took on him the form and fashion of a Man Besides it is a Contradiction in the Nature of the thing it self and is no better Sence than to say a Man made himself a Man It may seem strange that Men should be so blind but how can it be otherwise when they will needs war against him who is the Light and Life of Men. I always thought that my Author was endu'd with a considerable stock of Learning only it look'd like a Jewel set in Lead for want of sound Reason and Faith in our Lord Jesus Christ to manage it until I met with his reconciling Faculty in his aforesaid 18th page and that brought to my Mind what the Apostle Peter saith 2 Pet. 3. 15 16. where speaking of some of Paul's Epistles of which this to the Philippians and that to the Hebrews are some He saith There are some things hard to be understood which the unlearned and unstable wrest as they do also other Scriptures to their own Destruction And when I read these things I cannot for my Life forbear thinking on my Nameless Author For besides the flat Contradiction he gives the Holy Ghost it is directly contrary to the Scope of the Apostle which was to move them to Humility and Condescension one to another from Christ's Example But if he were a Man only to say nothing of the Nonsence that there is in saying a Man humbled himself to become a Man the Man Jesus considered as a Man only was highly honoured in his being conceived and brought forth of a Virgin in such a Miracnlous Manner So that consider the Text which way you will either with respect to the Words themselves or with respect to the Context we are bound to believe the Truth as it is revealed that He thought it no Robbery to be equal with God There is nothing more material in my Author which I have not taken Notice of and shewed how unreasonable it is especially where he pretends Scripture for his cunningly devised Fables And the Truth is those Gentlemen would make much surer Work in their Babel Building if they could but race out the Scriptures from among us than ever they will be able to do by wresting them one by one to speak according to their foolish Reason And indeed the Considerator in his Answer to his Grace the Lord Archbishop of Canterbury bids fair for it for though he had tryed in vain by false and absurd Glosses to make the first Chapter of John and many other Texts mentioned by his Lordship to speak according to his own and his Master Socinus his foolish Reason or rather corrupt Mind Yet he flies at first to his best shift though for Subtilty sake somewhat indirectly to except against the Gospel of St. John the three Epistles and the Revelations and would impose upon us that they were counterfeited by one Cerinthus in John's Name And therein he hath not only secur'd his own Cause but greatly oblig'd the Papists a piece of Wickedness they never had the Impudence to attempt though they kept them lock'd up in an Unknown Tongue Yes but the Considerator tells us that the Revelations of St. John were denied and writ against by some of the Papists as being no part of Divine Writ Well be it so every Body knows for what Cause we have it recorded in Acts 6. 10. because they were not able to resist the Holy Ghost that speaks therein and at the same time others of them are striving with all the might they have to ward off the Blow that the Spirit gives to that Interest in wresting it to any sence that may secure their Popish and Foppish Cause In like manner doth the Considerator not only with the Revelations but with the Gospel of St. John and his three Epistles and scarce any Text that is urg'd against them but they say either it is not right translated or it is no Scripture or else they manifestly wrest it from the plain Sence and Meaning of the Holy Ghost There in one Instance among many we have in the Gospel of John Chap. 8. v. 58. where our Lord saith Before Abraham was I am Considerator pag. 57. colume 1. that is saith he In the Decree and Counsel of God Why good Mr. Considerator what a great Secret have you found out now are not all God's Works known to him from Eternity were not you and I and all the Men that shall be in the World to the end thereof in the Counsel and Decree of God from Eternity Surely God is not like Man to determine and purpose one thing yesterday and another to day But pray Sir be pleased to take a View of your own Learned Countenance in your 6th page colume 1st and 2d There you give several Arguments to prove a thing cannot be possess'd before it is in being and in particular you instance the Day of Judgment which is not yet come and therefore not possess'd I hope you will not say it is not or that it was not in the Decree of God when and before he made the World Therefore your Saying after Grotius that a Man descending from Abraham could not be any otherwise before Abraham than in Divine Purpose and Decree is very true and turns the Argument against you Besides Abraham was in the Decree of God as soon as any Man Therefore you must own that our Lord did exist before he was born of the Virgin or that he spoke Nonsence for they themselves knew that the Decrees of God were Eternal and our Lord had not given them an Answer to their Question which was whether he had seen Abraham he being not fifty years old Besides our Lord had told a plain direct Lye if he had said he was in the Decree of God before Abraham For Abraham was in God's Decree as soon as Adam and therefore no Man descending from Abraham could be in God's Decree before him But the Considerator goes a little further and saith our Lord did exist in the Promise of God before Abraham which is very true also for he was promised the same day of the Fall but neither will this do the Business nor discharge our Considerator from charging our Lord with Folly or Nonsence or both For it was promised presently after the Flood long before Abraham that God should perswade Japhet to dwell in the Tents of Shem and yet the Gentiles the Seed of Japhet did not receive the Gospel till since our Lord 's coming in the Flesh So likewise was it prophesied of Josiah an hundred years before he was born could he therefore say before I was born I am Nay is not Mr. Considerator himself and the rest of his Learned Brethren prophesied of by Name in 2 Pet. 2. 1. where the Holy Ghost tells us there shall be false Teachers among Christians who privily shall bring in damnable Heresies denying
Father no otherwise One than God and others may be said to be One Namely in Will and Love Pray Sir read the 6 ver of the First of Hebrews there God commands all his Angels to Worship him Will you be so unreasonable as to tell me that God is so One with any of his Creatures a● to Command all the Angels of Heaven to Worship them the Man Jesus only excepted who by virtue of his Union and Personal Oneness with God the Son our Mediator being God Man he must have this Honour For hath not God in the first Command forbid the worshipping any God but himself and doth he not again say He will not give his Glory to another nor his Praise to graven Images So then tho' Christ be the true God he is not another God and truth it self saith that it is the Will of God that all Men should honour the Son even as they honour the Father John 5. 23. And why then will you discover so much Ignorance of the Scripture and prove so evidently that your Wisdom your Reason is but Folly instead of being a sure guide to lead you to the Knowledge of God and again Christ tells you if your Reason will but let you believe him that as the Father knoweth me even so know I the Father Joh. 10. 15. And pray Sir will your Reason tell you that God and any others which you speak of are so One whether Angels or Men as that thereby they know God as God knows them surely God knows all his Creatures perfectly Do any of his Creatures know him so Thus we see vain Man would be counted wise though it be far from him and he is as extravagant as the Wild Asses Colt but it is not to be much wonderd at upon due consideration of the matter for how can it be otherwise when a Man is so far left of God to himself as to be wise in his own Eyes and so neglect to Live in a Continued humble dependancy upon him who gives Wisdom to the simple and Understanding to them that have no Knowledge this was the sin and Folly of the Pharisees who because they said they did see therefore their Sin and Folly remain'd with them Joh. 9. 41. And our Lord tells us in the 39th ver That for Judgment I came into this World that those that were blind and so made willing by Grace to be led in the way they knew not according to that Gracious Promise in Isaiah 42. 16. should see and that they which did see and were so conceited with their own Reason and Righteousness as not to submit to the Righteousness and Wisdom of God should be made blind and Dye in their Sins Again our Lord tells you in Joh. 5. 21. For as the Father raiseth up the dead and quickeneth them even so the Son quickeneth whom he will Now Sir will your Reason tell you or if it do tell you and so delude you can it prove to you by Sound reasonable Truth that any Created being whether Angel or Man can quicken whom he will and is this such a Oneness as God and others may be said to be One. Unless I find some Truer and so more reasonable Arguments then these I shall never be your Disciple Therefore I shall pass on and Consider our Accountants 6th 7th and 8th Reasons in the 4th Page for they are all of a sort and if one be confuted the rest must Fall He tells us that those things are attributed to the Father which cannot possibly be said of the Son as that he is greater than all and those things are said of the Son which cannot possibly be attributed to the Father or to the One that is God as that he was conceived grew in Wisdom and Stature and many other such like things Which is very true and herein my Author speaks Reasonably for it would have been a very Irrational thing for him to have thought of imposing his Cunningly devised Fables upon the Weakest Christians if he did not Cunningly and Deceitfully Mention some Truths For it is no new thing for the Enemies of the Gospel to hold the Truth in Unrighteousness But Good Sir what sort of Logick is this some things are Attributed to the Father which cannot be said of the Son and some things are Attributed to the Son which cannot be Attributed to the Father which clearly shews that they are distinct that the Father is not the Son and that the Son is not the Father But it doth not follow from hence that the Son is not God and whereas you say the Scripture tells us that the Father is Greater than all the same also it saith of the Son for it is expressly said in Rom. 9. 5. That he is over All therefore Greater than All God blessed for evermore And for those many Scriptures that speak of Christ his being conceiv'd growing in Wisdom and Stature and the Like which cannot be Attributed to God the Father It is our unspeakable Comfort and happiness and shews that Christ God the Son did really take our Nature upon him according to the Scriptures Heb. 2. 16. For verily he took not on him the nature of Angels but he took on him the seed of Abraham and his being Conceiv'd and Born of the Virgin clearly proves that it was not a shadow or likeness of Man that he took but real Man and in regard it is said that he took on him the Seed of Abraham And in the aforesaid Hebrews 2. ver 14. it is said As the children are made partakers of Flesh and Blood he also himself likewise took part of the the same Which clearly shews him to be God for who else must this he be who took on him the Seed of Abraham and took on himself part of Flesh and Blood It must be some Being superiour to the Angels themselves for the Apostle speaks of it as an Act of Soveraignty and Good Pleasure in this Mighty He in this Almighty Being who did not take the Nature of Angels but did take the Seed of Abraham So my Accountant and I are agreed in this That God the Son did take our Nature upon him And in this Sense God was made Man The Word was made flesh I suppose my Accountant will discover so much Reason as to own that this He the Apostle speaks of was not Man nor Angel For then he had spoken Nonsence and his Words would have run thus verily an Angel or a Man took not on him the Nature of Angels but the Seed of Abraham So that it is Evident this He was neither Angel nor Man but a being infinitely superiour to both But My Author goes on to his 7th Reason and saith That there can be no Essential or Personal Vnion between God and a Creature Finite and Infinite For the being of God doth not require the being of a Creature to his being A very unreasonable assertion and therefore must have some thing reasonable joyned with it to