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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A13773	Positions lately held by the L. Du Perron, Bishop of Eureux, against the sufficiency and perfection of the scriptures maintaning the necessitie and authoritie of vnwritten traditions. Verie learnedly answered and confuted by D. Daniell Tillenus, Professor of Diuinitie in the Vniuersitie of Sedan. VVith a defence of the sufficiency and perfection of the holy scriptures by the same author. Faithfully translated.	Tilenus, Daniel, 1563-1633.; Du Perron, Jacques Davy, 1556-1618. Discours sur l'autorité.; Tilenus, Daniel, 1563-1633. Defence of the sufficiency and perfection of the holy scripture. aut	1606 (1606)	STC 24071; ESTC S101997	143,995	256

Baptisme do sinne against the same article Whence I thus conclude The doctrine of the Donatists which was hereticall could not be confuted by the scripture alone and without the helpe of the Apostolicke tradition for to confute all heresies And by consequent it conteyneth not alone sufficiently all the principles of doctrine necessarye to diuinity and Christian Religion D Tillenus his answere Let vs see if Sainte Augustine in those tenne yeares that he handled his question against the Donatists could not finde any actuall proof in the scripture vpon this poynte as Du Perron saith lib. 1. ● cōt 7. I thinke he promiseth very certayn proofes when he saith Ne videar humanis argumentis agere ex Euangelio profero certa documenta c Least I should seem to discourse with humaine reasons Lib. 2. de bap cont Don. c. 1 J will alleadge sure proofes out of the Gospell c. And in an other place Quid sit perniciosius vtrum non Baptizari an rebaptizari iudicare difficile est verumtamen recurrens ad illam stateram Dominicam vbi non ex humano sensu sed ex authoritate diuina rerum momenta pensantur inveniode vtraque re Domini sententiam Qui lotus est non habet necessitatem iterum lauandi c Jt is an hard thing to iudge whether is more dangerous not to be Baptised or to be baptized againe yet hauing recourse vnto that ballance of the Lord where not of humain sence but of diuine authority the vallews of things are weighed I finde of both matters the lords sentence He that is washed hath no neede to bee washed agayne c. And in another place hauing said that this custome came of the Tradition of the Apostles not meaning that it wanteth his proofes in Scripture he addeth Lic 5 de cont Don c. 2 Contra mandatum dei esse quod venientes ab hereticis si iam illi Baptismum christi acceperunt baptizantur quia scripturarum sanctarum testimoniis non solum ostenditur sed PLANE ostenditur That it is against the cōmandement of God that such as come frō hereticks shold be baptised if they haue already receued ther the Baptism of Christ becaus by the testimonies of holy Scriptures it is not only shewed but plainly shewed These places others of this father do shew the audaciousnes of du Perron in his affirmations and his sincerity in his allegations As for the places he bringeth out of the same father to proue that he acknowledged the imperfectiō of the scriptu e cōcerning this poynt he confoūdeth the question of act exāple or practise with the questiō of law or ordināce S Augustine saith in this matter there cā be none exāples of scripture alledged that is it cānot be foūd there that it was so practised therfore he referrd the custō or practis hereof to apostolike traditiō but that it ought so to be practised he affirmeth that not only the scripture sheweth it but that it sheweth it manyfestly Whence I conclude against the Bishops conclusiō on this second poynt The doctrine that euidently sheweth what is to be done in all matters cōcerning fayth which confuteth the heresies that repugne the same is perfect but the scripture conteyneth this doctrine Therfore it is perfect The assumption is proued not only by the scripture but also by the testimonies of the fathers by whome he pretendeth to proue the doctrine of the church of Rome I wold earnestly desire of him cleare direct answere to that place of Augustine aboue alleadged out of his secōd book 9 chapter de doctrina Christiana for in the verball conference he woulde giue no answer therūto but on condition that I would protest to forsake the scripture and not to reason any more but by the authority of the fathers The bishop of Eureux The third heresy which we haue propounded among those that cannot by the scripture alone bee confuted is that of the Greekes touching the proceeding of the holy ghost which our aduersaries hold as well as we to proceed from the father and from the sonne a thing notwithstanding which the scripture doth no where expresse On the contrary it seemeth to restrayne the originall of the same proceeding from the father alone saying ●5 26 16. The spirit of truth which proceedeth from the father For when this sentence of Christ is obiected to the Greekes He shall take of mine They answerr that this worde of mine hath relation not to the Essence nor to the person but to the doctrine so that the intention of Christ in saying he shall take of mine that is of the same treasure of doctrine and wisdome of which the sonne hath taken And they alleadg for proofe of their exposition that which followeth in the Text which sayth And he shal declare it vnto you replying that the word declare hath relation not to the essence nor to the person but to the doctrine In like sort when these places are alleadged vnto them if any one haue not haue not the spirit of Christ 8.15 ● 5.6 he is none of his And agayne the spirit of Christ crying Abba Father they answer that concludeth not that the spirit proceedeth from Christ and that he is called the spirit of Christ not by proceeding but by possessiō for asmuch as Christ according to his humanity hath receiued the guift the ful whol possession of the same spirit according to the words of Esay The Spirit of the Lord is vpō me becaus the Lord hath anoynted me And S. Peeter saith The lord hath anoynted him with the holy ghost and with power And that in this maner it is said that Elizeus receiued the spirit of Elias Not that the holy Ghost did proceed from Helias but because in a certayne measure he was possessed of Heliah When that is obiected vnto them which Christ saith vnto his Father That which is thine is myne They answer that may be expounded of the possession and outward domination ouer the creatures ouer whom the Father hath giuen all power to the sonne in heaven and in earth neither can the sēce of the words in that place be restrayned to the Essence no more then when the father of the prodigall Childe saitb to his eldest sonne the same words Omnia mea tua sunt But besides this though it should be vnderstood of the essence yet the argument concludeth nothing For if becaus the essence of the father is one the same it shoold therfore follow that the holy ghost proceedeth as well from the one as frō the other you must in like sorte conclude The essence of the father and the holy ghost is one and the same the sonn is therfore begotten of the holy ghost as well as of the Father And when it is added to those other arguments He will send the comforter They answer that he expoundeth himselfe shewing his meaning by this word Send namely that he will pray his

father that he will send him I will pray saith he vnto the Father and he shall send you another cōforter And in the same place where he saith he will send him he preuenteth say they the opinion might be conceyued of his proceeding from him in that he sayth he wil send frō the Father the spirit of truth which proceeds frō the father c To which they further adde that there is a great difference betweene the tēporal sending of the holy ghost at our Lords request on the Apostles and the eternall proceeding of the said Spirit which is the poynt in question D. Tillenus his answere The proceeding of the Holy-Ghost which is the thirde poynte which he maynteineth to haue no ground in scripture hath his proofe in the scripture by the schoolmen themselues against the Greeks who receiued this article without any greate difficulty in the Councell of Florence in which was present Iohn Paleologus Emperour of Constantinople but they receiued but fainedly and by constraynte of theire Emperour who stood in neede of the Westerne Churches the Articles of the Popes Supremacy of Trāsubstantiation of Purgatory and other like which are without and against the scripture Yet ther were some Bishops there that would neuer consent vnto them but afterwards caused all to be reuoked imputing the losse of the Easte Empire which hapned shortly after this councell to that vnluckie vnion that there was made with the Pope Now as the principall questions touching the holy ghost of his nature and of his office haue alwayes been determined by the scripture against the Arriās Eunomians Macedonians so also may therein be shewed his proceeding from the father and from the Sonne The place in saint Paule cannot be shifted of by his distinction of possession and proceeding 〈◊〉 8.9 〈◊〉 .6 as if he spake onely of the gifte possession of the spirit that Iesus Christ receued according to his humāity For the same spirit is there called both the spirit of Christ the spirit of him that raysed vp Christ And when saint Peter saieth that it was the spirit of christ by which the Prophets haue prophecied 〈◊〉 1.11 he quite cutteth of the bishops answere For seeing that the prophets haue prophesied before the incarnatiō of christ they cannot haue prophesied by the spirit in as much as it was giuen to the humanity of christ and on the other side the Scripture witnesseth in infinite places that this spirit of the Prophets was the spirit of God the father which sheweth as cleerely that the holy ghost proceedeth from the father the sonne as the consubstātiality of the son with the Father by conferēce of the places in the Prophets that speak of Iehoua with the places in the Euangelists and Apostles which appropriate them vnto Christ The exāple of Heliseus that receiued the Spirit of Helias is as little to purpose as the former distinctiō Iohn 15 Iesus Christ saith that it is he that well send this spirit shewing his diuine power Helias answereth to Helizeus when hee asked him double portion of his spirit Thou askest a hard thing meaning that it is not giuen by the power of man Christ saith not that it is an hard thing for him to send the Comforter contrariwise he saith all that his father hath is his also He gaue it indeed and in effecte to the Apostles breathing on them and saying Receaue the Holy ghost Iohn 20 And whereas du Perron sayth that this may bee expounded of the possession domination of the creatures ouer which the Father hath giuen him all power As whē the father of the prodigal child saith to his eldest son the like words All that is mine is thine J answer as aboue is alredy sayd that the spirit is in the son as in the Father And as is shewed that the Spirit proceedeth from the father by the places which say That the Father sēdeth him frō the Father so also may be shewd his proceeding frō the sō by the places Gal 4.6 Iohn 5.1 god sēdeth the spirit of his sō the sō doth al things that the Father doth c. Jt is obiected that it is said That the Spirit proceedeth frō the father That Christ sayth he wil pray the father to sēd him to which J answer that Christ in those places speketh as Mediator in which he is lesse that the father so hee sayth that the father is greater than hee And yet he saith the father wil send him in his name Iohn 14 Iohn 15 which coūteruayleth that other saying that he will send him from the father As for the difference betwixt the temporall mission of the holy Ghost and his eternall proceeding J say that this eternall proceeding is nothing else but the communication of the Diuine essēce by which the third person of the Trinity receiues all the same Essence from the Father and from the sonne as being the spirit of them both And seeing that the Greekes beleeue with vs that the holy Ghost is God that he is equall to the father and to the Sonne against the Arrians and Macedonians and that he is a distinct person from the father and from the sonne againste the Sabellians we are not to hould them for heretickes in this poynt though they had certaine particulare manners of speaking for as much as heresy is not in the words but in the sense as Saint Hierome saith Many among the auncient fathers are not held for hereticks though they speake often improperly of the misteryes of the trinity of which number is S. Hillary 2 de Tri●c who in many places putteth three substances in God against the sownd maner of speaking whereof hee excuseth himselfe saying that these things surpasse al signification of wordes all intention of sence all conceptiō of sence all conception of vnderstanding But the Church of Rome is rightly holden for heretical which in many things doth attribute vnto it self the office of the holy ghost As whē it sayth that one cānot be assured of the truth and diuinity of the Scripture but onely by the testimony that that Church giueth of it The Bishop of Eureux The fourth poynte which we haue propounded is the translation of the Saboath to Sunday Euery one knoweth how rigorous the commandement of the Sabaoth was in the old law and how the gretest both thretnings promises of god were made to those that violated or obserued his Sabbaths And notwithstanding this commandement of God that god had vouchsafed to write with his own hand in the 10 precepts of the decalogue to sequester it as by speciall priuiledge frō all precepts of the ceremoniall law for to insert it in the Epitome of the morall law Yet the church hath changed it with out any written ordinance both as touching the end the forme ●●d the matter First as concerning the end Saturday was ordayned to commemorate the Creation of the world gods rest after

of Mediate and Immediate sufficiencie so industriously set downe at the beginning of his Booke In the ●●cation 〈◊〉 title and by vs examined and confuted in a Treatise by it selfe yet distrusting the force of this distinction hee addeth another distinguishing sufficiencie into Authoritatiue and doctrinall and depriuing the Scripture of the latter fol. 14● of fauour granteth it the first Let vs note herein two fraudes the first in that hee presupposeth that St. Iohn spake but of that which he himself only had written in stead of referring his words to all the Euangelicall historie written before by the other three Euangelists St. Iohns scope in his writings as all the fathers doe witnesse being onely to make a supplie for a more expresse declaration of the Godhead of the sonne of God because of the Heretikes that then denied it and to confirme and seale by his testimonie Tert. d● c. 17. Hier. d● Ecl in and Apostolike authoritie the Canonicall bookes of the new Testament because of certaine writings supposed and attributed to Saint Paul by some of his Disciples and followers themselues Wherevnto hath relation that horrible threatning which he set as a heauenly seale to his booke of the Reuelation for a shutting vp of the new Testament The other fraud is to dispute in what sense this proposition is sufficient or not as if neither Saint Iohn nor all the other Writers of the newe Testament had written any thing else but these words only Iesus is that Christ that Sonne of God without adding any other proofe or explication without any other Hystorie or doctrine whatsoeuer a fraude most necessarie for his desperate Cause giuing him occasion in appearance to heape vp a great number of wordes to fill vp paper or rather dust to cast into mens eyes If so many things as the Euangelists doe write conteine not the meanes for to proue this proposition and for to shewe plainly what Christ is to wit his two natures and his three Offices to what vse serue they then how can a thing so vnsufficiēt in it selfe make vs haue eternal life If they containe but a part of the meanes and necessarie proofes what reason was there to set downe onely that part and to omit the principall What reason was there to make so many bookes and to fill them with matters which to set foorth our Bishops opinion in one word serueth to no vse at all seeing that euen that which is written cannot be vnderstood without his subsidiarie Tradition could any more shamefully defame the apostles and Euangelists these Notaries and Secretaries of the holy Ghost than in accusing them so manifestly of disloyaltie in their charge of hauing suppressed and eclipsed essentiall and principall clauses in this instrument which they haue framed and left for to serue for the perpetual canon or rule to the christian Church An accusation that cannot redound but vpon the holy-Ghost himselfe by whose instinct and inspiration they wrote that which they wrote for to serue to that ende and vse Let vs conclude then that this distinction Authoritatiue not Doctrinall is false and blasphemous leauing to the sacred Scripture no other title but of a Letter of credite but of a memoriall or direction as hee himselfe saith without containing the doctrine in it selfe but in another which is in effect to dispoyle it as well of authoritie as of doctrine for to inuest the Pope with both in attributing vnto him authoritie to teach whatsoeuer doctrine he listeth seeing they leaue Christians neither balance nor touch-stone to proue it after they haue defamed the Scripture whereby the men of Beroea examined euen the doctrine of an Apostle yea Act. 17 ● that only by the scripture of the old Testamēt wherin they found sufficiēcie of doctrine as wel as of authority for to judge thereof Indeed the law is called by the Hebrewes Thora that is to say doctrine the Gospel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth the same thing But after the Doctrine of du Perro it is a doctrin not doctrinal as the blood of the Masse is a blood not bloody that is to say a Pyrrhoniā doctrine Yet at the worst though we shold euen admit this fond false and outragious distinction that al the Scripture were nothing else but a letter or credit or as he saith A memoriall conteyning directions and tokens for to finde a Physitian which is able to declare to euery on● Fol. 14● all the necessarie remedies to cure his maladie Yet he should get nothing for his Pope nor for all his representatiue Church For if a man looke well into this memoriall if he take all the directions obserue well the tokens that it conteyneth he shal not find therin one only iota that directeth him to that magnificall Romane Hierarchie for which onely our Aduocate pleadeth If the Scripture did direct sicke persons to the Pope as to the Soueraine Physitian onely healing all diseases then should these be the markes or tokens that it should giue of him An Idoll beset with gold and precious stones set vpon a high Throne with three crownes vpon his head a guilded Panto●le on his foote which hee giueth Kings and Emperours to kisse being prostrate before him Cardinalls round about him with red hattes and scarlet roabes representing the Senate of the auncient Rome Many Byshops and Arch-byshops mytred in coapes and robes and betrapped as the subiect of the Comedie requireth Innumerable legions of Priestes Curates Monkes Fryars and Chanons diuersified with sundry liueries and dispersed as in Garrison through all the prouinces of the Empire of that Beast Indeede we finde ●●al 17. that the Scripture liuely prescribeth a certaine woman cloathed in purple and scarlet bedecked with gold and precious stones which it calleth great Babylon the mother of the whoredomes and abominations of the earth drunken with the blood of the Saintes and Martyrs of Iesus Christ And this is the Physitian to whom du Perrón as one of his Apothecaries directeth vs for the healing of all our diseases 〈◊〉 13. because it is written Who-Whosoeuer doth not worship this Beast it shall put him to death True it is that those she putteth to death are better cured of their diseases forsaking this body of sin resting from their laboures 〈◊〉 14.13 than those that drinke in the cup wherewith this Physitian or rather Magitian drencheth such as direct themselues vnto him Now that which hath been said touching the text of S. Iohn sufficeth also for to vnderstand the expositions of S. Augustine S. Cyrill the Bishop of Eureux bestirreth himselfe heapeth vp many words without matter for to make them to be vnderstood of miracles which is a thing not denyed the knot of the question beeing whether it bee with a restriction to miracles onely and a totall exclusion of Doctrine This is it that we deny him this is it that repugneth euen cōmon reason to speak of a signe

contrarie the first intention of the Apostles was to deliuer the doctrines to the Church by tradition of liuely voice word vnwritten Also he saith that the Apostles wrote but by incident or chance Fol. 35. and vpon secondary occasions Let vs see this Enthymeme or imperfect argument of the Pirrhoniā Logicke The Apostles first taught by liuely voyce Ergo they pretended not to teach by their writings which succeeded their preaching The consequence is as good as who should say One eateth first for to nourish himselfe therfore drink serueth nothing to nourishment A non distributo ad distributum c. If he make an opposition between the cōmandement of the spirit of God the incidēt or the occasiōs which moued the Apostles to write he blasphemeth in diuinitie denying the places of scripture 2. Tim. 3.1 2. Pet. 1.20 21. where it is called inspired of God and doteth in Logick excluding the efficient and principal cause because of the instruments and means that it vseth Also the Apostle saint Iude saith Iude. 3. that there was a necessitie of writing imposed vpon him And in the Reuelation we read that saint Iohn is more than ten times commaunded to write We know that to preach and to write are things verie accordant and which were comprehended in one and the same commaundement giuen to the Apostles ●ath 28 to teach all nations which yet to this day they teach by their writings He which commaunded them the thing which is to teach commaunded also the manners of teaching which are to preach with liuely voice and to set forth the doctrine in writing both of them being fit for teaching and this latter most fit for to continue and to transferre doctrines or instructions vnto posteritie ●enaeus li 3 p 1 So Irenaeus vnderstandeth it saying The Apostles after they had preached with liuely voice the Gospell afterwards gaue it vs in the scriptures by the will of God for to be the foundation and pillar of our faith So the booke intituled Manuale Curatorū sheweth it saying there are three sorts of preachings One is by writing as saint Paule did writing to the Romanes Corinthians c. Another is by actions so euery action of Iesus Christ is our instruction the third is by word liuely voyce The Bishop of Eureux for to shew that hee is not alone in his opinion produceth foure places of foure ancient Fathers ●hat is by ●●ose of our ●●de often propounded and expounded namely that they shuld be vnderstood not of matters of faith but of the order gouernance of the Church which things being of their owne nature ambulatory subiect to change according to the diuersity of the circumstances of times places persons could not or should not be written Or if they speak of some doctrine not cōteined in the scripture they meane it of the formal tearms which are not there as the words trinity coessentiall sacramēt the sense matter of which notwithstanding is therin found is drawen from thence either by analogy of faith or by necessary consequence Otherwise it would follow that they had gainsaid contradicted themselues a confess fid sum mor. 72 1. sum 80 22. ere 's to wit S. Basil whē he saith that it is a most manifest marke of infidelity a most certain signe of pride to reiect any thing of that which is writtē or to bring in any thing which is not written S. Epiphanius All things are cleare in the scripture to those which by a holy vse of reasō wil draw nere the word of god which haue not cōceiued an operation of the diuel such as they conceiue 〈◊〉 1. Timoth. ●om that accuse the scripture of imperfection endeuoring to cast themselues into the gulfe of death S. Chrysostome maketh saint Paule speake to Timothie in this manner In stead of mee thou hast the scriptures if thou desirest to learne any thing thou maist doe it from thence Then he addeth De doctrin Christ l. 2. c. If he wrote so to Timothie who was full of the holy Ghost how much more ought wee to thinke that it is spoken of vs. It is manifest that this Father thought that the intention of the Apostles was to leaue to the Churches their writings in stead of instructions by word of mouth which they could not continue after their death Saint Augustine saith In Psal 132 Among the things which are Openly declared in the scripture are All those which containe faith and manners that is Hope and Charitie There is to quitte his foure places and in pieces of the same coyne If hee will agree them let him bestirre himselfe better than he did in the answere he giueth to the place of saint Hilarie that hath these words That which is not conteined in the booke of the law we ought not so much as to know it Hee saith that this should be vnderstood of the Apocrypha books alledged in quality of Canonical What a mockery is this Is not the sentence of S. Hilarie generall or if it be not general is it not vnapt friuolous But the reply was ready That there be many other things to be knowne besides them which are cōteined in the law which conteineth not so much as the principal points viz. the immortality of the soule the resurrection of the body c. What Apocrypha Logick is this to draw an vniuersall conclusion from particular premises And when the same father saith in another place It is good that we content our selues with the things which are written can that plaister cure or so much as couer the wound that this place maketh in his vnwritten Traditions And here let the reader be aduertised once for all That al the sentences of the Fathers how generall soeuer they be what vniuersall marke soeuer be set vpon them are euer shifted off by a restraining them to some particular deed As if the Hypothesis were not decided by the Thesis a particular case by a generall Law which is to make a laughing stocke of the Fathers and to depriue them euen of common sense in making them reason so vnaptly and in occasioning their aduersaries to make vnto them so easie and iust replies To returne to Hilarie the Bishop of Eureux opposeth to the aboue said place another of the same Father taken out of his Commentarie on the second Psalme where he saith That Moses after hee had written the words of the olde Testament consigned certaine more secret mysteries to the seuentie Elders c. which place he saith I haue not read and calleth me a bad scholler in skipping ouer the beginning of the booke for to studie at the end I answere hee sheweth that he himselfe hath not read the note set vpon the margēt of this place non credo which Hilar. Paris ex ●ffici Carol. Guillar anno 1544. with the authoritie of saint Hierome thinking that these commentaries vpon the Psalmes are for