Selected quad for the lemma: sense_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
sense_n	faith_n	speak_v	word_n	4,670	5	4.7227	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B09776	The Anabaptists meribah: or, VVaters of strife. Being a reply to a late insulting pamphlet, written by Thomas Lamb, merchant, intitulled, Truth prevailing against the fiercest opposition; or, An answer to Mr. John Goodwins Water-dipping, no firm footing for church-communion. Wherein the impertinency of M. Lamb's answer, and the validity of M. Goodwin's Water-dipping, &c. are manifested by I. Price a member of the Church of Christ, whereof the said Mr. Goodwin is pastor.	Price, J., fl. 1656.	1656 (1656)	Wing P3332A; ESTC R182056	87,699	107

with teaching by name in the commission of Christ and the same presence of Christ promised ioyntly to Baptism as teaching to the end of the world and serving the Grand Interest of Remission of Sins and Salvation in some sense and commanded by Christ to be done upon discipled persons and that with huge solemnity in the Name of the Father Son and Spirit and that too amongst the last words he spake on earth SECT XXVI THat Baptism with VVater is one of Christs commands Reply is our belief as well as yours But what you mean in these words and joyn'd with teaching by name in the commission of Christ I do not wel understand If you understand the particle and distributively thus That Christ commanded or appointed his Disciples to Teach as wel as to Baptise your Yea in that sense is our Amen But if you mean and understand the Particle and conjunctively as I think you do in this sense as if Baptism and Teaching must be companions and go together then it is denyed For if there must be teaching whereever there is baptizing because they are joyned together in the commission then it will follow that there must be baptizing whereever there is this teaching upon the same ground because in the Commission baptizing is as well joyn'd with teaching as teaching with baptizing if you say Teaching must precede baptizing Obj. because it is put before it in the Commission SECT XXVII J Answer Answ first That the Prelocation of the word teaching in the Commission before baptizing is no more an argument that teaching must precede baptizing in time than the prelocation of the word Iacob before Esau in Rom. the 9th 13. doth argue that Iacob was the elder brother no more then because we have Iacob also mentioned before Abraham in the 7th of Micah 20. that therefore Abraham was born after Iacob Yea Mark 1.4 We have baptizing mentioned before teaching or preaching Iohn did baptize in the wilderness and preach the Baptism of Repentance c. SECT XXVIII 2. THe Commission you see is concerning Nations Mat. 28.19 The word Nations doth include children Go ye therefore and teach all Nations haptizing them it is not go teach every person Baptizing them It is not denyed but Nations must be taught before Nations be baptized and families must be taught before families be baptized that is those that are capable in both must be taught and more than taught before they be baptized But this doth no more argue that every individuall person must be taught yea and must understand and receive that teaching before they be baptized than it did follow that because the Nation of Israel was to be taught and instructed in the wayes of God under the Law before circumcision that therefore none of their children must be circumcised untill they were first actually taught and instructed Genesis 17. and the ten first verses you will find that God first instructed Abraham in the Doctrine of his Covenant and afterward imposed upon him Circumcision which was a seal of the righteousness of faith or of the Covenant of Justification by Faith The Nation of the Jews were Gods taught people before circumcised and this is most apparent that the Proselytes of the Gentiles were first instructed before they became Jews This did not argue that their children must not or might not be circumcised before they were likewise actually instructed You know they were to be circumcised by the express command of God You have replyed to your self in mentioning the word of God they had the express command of God for their circumcision Object shew us the like for baptism and we shall give all up unto you SECT XXIX IF God gave his express commands to circumcise the children of taught Parents Answ or of Parents instructed in the Mysteries of the Doctrine of circumcision before those children were capable of any such teachings or of understanding the same then it will follow that there was a time when children even Infants at eight dayes old were capable subjects of such Ordinances of God and of Christ for they were his Ordinances which were very mysterious and spirituall Children in Gods acceptation capable of circumcision and the Doctrine thereof under the Law why not alike capable of baptism and the doctrine thereof under the Gospel and which they could not understand untill they came to years of discretion and that God did thereby instruct their Parents in the extent of his grace through the Mediation of Christ or the Messiah unto them and their children except they themselves did afterwards reject and refuse the same which was matter of great comfort to them If children were thus capable under the Law except you can find that they are expresly or by infallible consequence from the Scriptures excluded under the Gospel by what authority dare you exclude them Are they not as capable of the Doctrine of Baptism as the children of the Jews were of circumcision Were not there as deep Mysteries in the Ordinance of Circumcision as there are in the Ordinance of Baptism Did God did Christ command circumcision to children under the Law and hath God hath Christ forbidden or prohibited Baptism unto children under the Gospel If so shew us where and we have no more to say And whereas you say shew us an express command for the Baptizing of children the text is at hand Mat. 28.19 Go ye therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son Gods express command for baptizing of children and of the Holy Ghost Are not Nations made up of men women and children 'T is true children are not nam'd in the Commission neither are men or women named if children must be excluded because not named why do you not exclude men and women upon the same reason and whom then will you baptize If you say those that are actually capable of teaching and no more I answer then you obey not the extent of the Commission which is not to baptize the capable part in your sense of Nations but all Nations If the Jews consisting of men women and children were a taught Nation in Scripture Language and in Gods acceptation why may not a Nation of the Gentiles consisting of men women and children be likewise a taught Nation and the men women and children thereof receive all the characters and signs of Gods gracious acceptation of them all as well as the Jews did If by the word Nation in Scripture when applyed to the Jews the men women and children of the Jews are intended as you know they are and as will appear by the Texts in the Margin * Deut. 4.34 Deut. 32.28 2 Sam. 7.23 1 Chron. 17.21 Psal 83.4 Psal 147.20 Isa 1.4 Luke 7.5 c. Act. 8.28 Gal. 3.14 Eph. 3.6 why then by the word nation when applyed to the Gentiles shall we not understand the men women and children also And whereas the Text saith Go teach all nations I

untill they came to years of knowledg and understanding Even so baptizing of children as well as men and women of discretion may be accompanied with the presence of Christ unto the standers by unto the administrators and Witnesses of the thing done and do service for the present upon them and upon children also when they are capable to understand the Mysteries of God imported therein As for that passage in this your second consideration wherein you say that Baptism with water c. is an Ordinance and command of Christ Serving the Grand Interest of Remission of sins Mr. Lamb. and salvation in some sense SECT XXXIII IF by serving the grand-interest of remission of sins and salvation in some sense be meant only this Reply How baptisme serveth the interest of Remission of Sins and how not that as the other Ordinances of Jesus Christ preaching prayer c. do serve or subserve unto these grand ends mentioned we are all brethren in this precious faith together with you We do believe that all Gods Ordinances and consequently this of baptism do accommodate and serve the grand-interest of remission of sins and salvation in some sense though every one in its own order and manner But 2. If by serving the grand-interest of remission of sins and salvation in some sense You mean as if there was as absolute necessity unto remission of sins and salvation that men and women should be baptized as well as believe and that it is not faith alone that justifieth or without baptism because as some of you have sensed it Jesus Christ hath said that he that believeth and is baptised shall be saved if you say of haptism and of the manner thereof according to your apprehensions as the Iews that came from Iudea Acts the 15. chapt ver 1. said of circumcision except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses ye cannot be saved if this be your sense concerning baptism and the manner thereof viz. Dipping c. then I say though you or an Angell from heaven shall bring in baptism or any thing else in competition with faith unto justification as some once brought in circumcision contrary to the Doctrine of truth which we have received you are and shall be unto us in this point as accursed And we rather affirm that if in this sense or with this hope and expectation you preach the necessity of baptism and dipping c. that Christ shall profit you nothing Again Whereas you further adde in this your second consideration that Baptism was Commanded by Christ to be done upon Discipled Persons I Answer Mr. Lamb. SECT XXXIII 1. Reply In whatsense children are discipled persons cipled persons in what sense not THat if by Discipled persons you mean only persons that are taught and have learned personally the truth as it is in Jesus I deny any such command of Christ concerning Baptism neither doth any word in the commission imply in the least any such thing The word in the Commission is Nations Go ye and teach all Nations baptizing them c. and we have granted that no nations are to be baptised but the discipled nations as no nation was to be circumcised but the discipled nation of the Jews Yet undiscipled persons at least in your sense undiscipled were circumcised Even so I conceive though no nations of the Gentiles were to be baptized but discipled nations yet children not actually and with understanding brought to the knowledg of Christ may be baptized 2. Suppose it be granted that none but discipled persons are to be baptized yet will it not follow that children must not be baptized The reason is because in Scripture-sense children of discipled parents are called discipled persons Act. 15.10 VVhy do ye tempt God to put a yoak upon the neck of the Disciples Children are called Disciples in Scripture c. This yoak is circumcision all are called Disciples upon whom this yoak was put Now this yoak was not put upon the neck of the believing Jews in respect of their personall subjection to circumcision for they were circumcised already but upon their children or upon them in respect of their children who are here called Disciples Again Iohn 9.28 said the Jews to the man whom Christ cured being born blinde we are Moses Disciples we that is the whole Nation of us Jews are Moses Disciples under the discipline of Moses Law And you know that children were under Moses his discipline in respect of circumcision Again the Scripture calls children by the name of Gods servants Lev. 25.41 42. Then shall he depart from thee both he and his children with him speaking of the jewish servants and their children when the year of Jubile comes for saith God they are my servants he and his children c. for they that is he and his children are my Servants If children may be called Moses Disciples and Gods Servants under the Law why may they not be reputed Christs Disciples and his Servants under the Gospel Again the holy actions of Parents are said to be done also by their children 2 Chron. 20.4 Jehoshaphat proclaimed a fast and Iudah gathered themselves together to ask or pray for help of the Lord Who are meant by Judah See verse the 13th And all Iudah stood before the Lord with their little ones their wives and their children thus children are said to pray with their fathers Again Deut. 29.10 11. Ye stand this day all of you before the Lord your God your captains of your Tribes your Elders and your Officers with all the men of Israel your little ones your wives c. that thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God and into his Oath c. Thus children are said to Fast to Pray to Repent to enter into covenant viz. in Gods mercifull acceptation their Parents being exercised in those duties Why may they not be said now also to be the same with their Parents Again Psal 22.9 David saith thus Thou art he that tookest me out of the womb thou did'st make me to hope when I was upon my Mothers Breasts What is more plain in Scripture than this viz. in Gods gracious account children are said to hope and depend upon him even before they come to understand the Doctrine of hope Again Mat. 18.5 6. children are said to believe in Christ and a fearfull judgement denounced against those that shall do them injury And whether you do not wrong them by excluding them from the Ordinance of Baptism it concerns you wel to consider See the like Mark 9.36 37. and 42. compared together Again Mark 10.13 14 15. Again Math. 19.13 14 15. You shall see the heart and soul of Jesus Christ is free in the admission of children unto him though you thrust them away from him As for that last clause in your second consideration wherein you take notice that the celebration of Baptism upon discipled persons was commanded to be done With huge solemnity

according to your Notion of it this being to shew forth the buriall of Christ Is not this an earthly and dull interpretation representation and exposition of water in baptism as you carry it Again to represent unto us the Resurrection of Christ you must manage it thus First here is water the outward visible Sign 2. What must be signified thereby It cannot be the blood of Christ. For as Christ was not buried in his own blood so he did not rise out of his own blood That that must answer water here also must be the earth again out of which Christ rose Is not this a most fansifull and unscripturall use of the word Water But you will object and say The Scriptures themselves are their own best Interpreter and the best Interpreter likewise of Gods Ordinances And do not the Scriptures refer our dipping in water to Christs bu●●all our rising out of water to Christs resurrection Rom. 6.4 5. VVe are buried with him by Baptism unto death that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father so we also should walk in newness of life For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection c. Col. 2.12 Buryed with him in baptism wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God who hath raised him from the dead SECT XLV THese doubtless are your thoughts and these are the main Scriptures wherein you so much boast that you have found out the truth in the matter of difference between us in this point Ans as if they were as plain clear and express for your turn as words and expressions can make them And this is the evidence of the Scriptures which manifesteth the palpableness of the error of our practise as baptizing Infants by sprinckling But if a man shall seriously consider it will appear that it is not the Text but your interpretation of it that thus magnifie And it is your i. e. and not Christs scriptum est that you call by the name of truth cloath'd with the majesty of God with other great swelling words You deal with us in this point Anabaptists Anti-Remonstrants bring their meaning 〈◊〉 the Scriptures and then force it upon their brethren for the Oracles of God as some others do about the Doctrines of the extent of Christs death of election and reprobation of the liberty of the will of man c. who declining the express letter of the Text bring their interpretation-sense and meaning to the Text contrary to the interpretation sense and meaning of other persons whose abilities piety parts and worth are no way inferiour to their own These likewise will take upon them to digest their opinions and interpretations of such Texts into certain positions and these must be Articles of faith fundamentalls in Religion the Golden Reeds laid up even in the very Sanctuary of God to try other mens doctrines withall If they speak according to their sense then they speak as the Oracles of God and according to the analogy of Faith then they pass for Orthodox they have a sacred and fatherly benediction an authoritative God-speed in the work of the Ministry speaking according to that rule there is a peace be upon them and upon all such the Israel of God And so they pass with an Ecclesiasticall vale to preach and premulgate their presumed notions for articles of faith If you on the other-hand and any person comes before them sitting together cloathed as it were with glory and majesty from on earth viz. the authority of man he is presently brought to the rest that as the Papists Prelates in the Marian-dayes when they would know ●n Heretick would presently demand of any brought before them what do you be believe concerning the Sacrament of the Altar Even so these demand what do you believe concerning the extent of Christs death election reprobation the power of the will falling away c. If they answer never so pertinently to every one of these speaking only the very Scripture phrase and nothing else though therein they exercise and manifest much learning much dexterity in the Scriptures much holyness of mind sweetness of lip yet though they spend severall hours and dayes in such examinations and such answers yet they are judg'd subtile men that speak warily and covertly And so long as they will speak nothing but the Language of the Scriptures they are put off or put by their enemies their Judges not being satisfied who in a word will not pass them for Orthodox untill they leave off and desist to give their answers thus in Parables I mean in Scripture sayings and speak plainly whether they do or will receive their conceits and plucits the brood of their own brain without sound proof of Scripture for the infallible truth of God If they do not or wil not it is not their piety their parts their gifts of knowledg and utterance their University education and perficiencie of learning it is not Certificates though never so authenticque of their holy life and unspotted conversation that shall serve their turn they are laid aside as men unsound in the faith men that believe and will preach another Gospell their truth or tormentors rather thus making their own judgments and opinions in the said points their positions and articles by themselves made not only equall with but above the Holy Scriptures themselves Or as the Pope and his Cardinalls make their Canons and decrees of equall authority with the Scriptures sending out their Bulls and Excommunications against those that refuse to receive them or as the Mahometan Priests and Turks will not suffer Mebomet-Dictates to be questioned upon pain of death even so you produce Scriptures against the baptizing of children which you say give a distinct sound that it is against the will of God to baptize such that such were never baptized that the manner of baptism according to Gods express will and word is by dipping c. which Scriptures notwithstanding make no more for the same than those Texts that say that two Sparrows are sold for a farthing that they took up so many Fishes that the Net broke c. And yet he that shall not receive your interpretations nay though Paul or an Angell from heaven say otherwaies he is as a man accursed from Christ you excommunicate such men unchurch them holding them unfit to partake of the Ordinances of Gods House although the Texts in the mean time urged and produced by you as Balaam by Balack to curse us yet do not curse but bless us altogether For confirmation hereof let us examine the two Texts last quoted by you Rom. 6.4 5. VVe are buryed with him by Baptism c. Colloss 2.12 VVe are buryed with him in Baptism c. What is here against baptizing of children what to justifie separation from churches baptized only in their infancie What is