as you imposed upon me So as No Right that is No Orthodox Church at Rome And yet no newes it is that I granted the Roman Church to be a true Church For so much very learned Protestants have acknowledged before me and the Truth cannot deny it For that Church which receives the Scripture as the Rule of Faith though but as a partiall and imperfect Rule and both the Sacraments as instrumentall Causes and seales of Grace though they adde more and infuse these yet cannot but be a True Church in Essence How it is in manners and Doctrine I would you would loâ—ke to it with a single eye P. Not Right then not Orthodox you hold the Church of Rome to be That 's somthing yet Yet True you ever have and will hold her to be unlesse she absolutely fall away from the Faith Well And yet I wot well you give absolutely falling away from the Faith So large bounds as it is to be feared you will never come to give her for absolutely gone and fallen away from the Faith so long as she can have but one bare thread or ragge of the profession of the Faith of the Creed nay if she can but say over her Creed though as you Confesse elsewhere she hath quite overthrown the sense of it And if the sense of it be destroyed surely the Faith of it also This will more fully appeare as we goe along We come to your Reasons why you hold Rome a True Church 1. For very learned Protestants which hold with you in this First we can set both as learned and double the number of of Protestants who will weigh down the Scale against those that seem to be of your opinion Secondly we could out of those very Protestant Authors whom you mean though I suppose you seldome read such Authors and in other things scarce name them Honoris causa collect more against this opinion That the Church of Rome is a true Church then you can for it As out of Iunius himselfe for Instance I mentioned before a laâ—e Book intituled Babel no Bethel never yet answered by any Jesuite or other Priest Romish or English where the Author hath cleared all or most of those Protestants which his Adversaries alledged and I suppose you meane from this opinion of yours And then also the Author proves by many concluding Arguments and in my opinion unanswerable that the Church of Rome is no true visible Church of Christ as having lost the very Essence of a true Church To which Booke I referre your Lordship could your patience but brook the Authors name or your Conscience not tremble at the mention of him To your Second Reason First I deny that the Church of Rome receives the Scriptures as A Rule of Faith For first The Rule of Faith must be in it selfe simply Divine and Infallible But such to the Church of Rome the Scripture is not For she makes the Infallibility and Divine Authority of the Scripture to depend upon the Church as you do upon Church Tradition which you confesse to be not simply Divine and Infallible Ergo Rome receives not the Scripture as A Rule of Faith Secondly Rome receives not holds not The Rule of Faith Ergo she is not a true Church As the late Dr Carleton of Chichester in his Book of the Church hath well and learnedly proved For not to hold the Rule of Faith is to deny and destroy the Faith and to fall absolutely away from the Foundation of Faith and to set up a new and false Faith upon a new and false Foundation Nor dare or doe you say that Rome receives the Scripture as The Rule of Faith but onely as A Rule of Faith to wit a partiall Rule as Bellarmine calls it But if the Scripture be as it is The onely Rule of Faith and ever hath been in all ages so held till Rome in the Councel of Trent changed this Rule then not to hold it so for The Rule that is the onely Rule but onely as a partiall Rule joyned with other Rules equall to it as her Traditions which Bellarmine in his Book de verbo Dei non scripto calls the word of God unwritten is to reject the onely Rule and so to fall absolutely away from the Faith And you confesse that the Church of Rome holds the Scripture but as a partiall and imperfect Rule And is this nothing with you What is this but to evacuate and utterly make voyd the Rule when for a perfect intire and absolute onely Rule it is made but a partiall imperfect and joynt Rule And when humane Authority is equalled with Divine Humane Traditions with Divine Scriptures as an equall Rule of Faith Nay and those her Traditions which she calls her word of God unwritten are such as teach things directly contrary to the Doctrines of Scripture as of Purgatory Invocation of Saints and the like Is not this a'kurosai as Christ saith to make voyd and of no Authority the Commandements of God by mens Tradition Yet this Camel you can easily swallow you slight this over as a matter of nothing as if it were all one thing in a manner to hold the Scripture The Rule of Faith and A Rule of Faith namely a part or piece of the Rule The whole Rule and a partiall Rule The onely perfect Rule and An imperfect Rule All this breakes no squares with you but that Rome for all this holds the Rule of Faith and therfore you hold her for a true Church of Christ. But yet in so saying you plainly imply That if Rome held not the Rule of Faith she is no true Church of Christ but is absolutely fallen away from Christ the Foundation For you give this for a Reason that Rome is a true Church because she holds the Rule of Faith Ergo If she hold not the Rule of Faith she is no true Church of Christ but is absolutely fallen away from the Faith Whereupon I argue thus That Church which denyeth the Scripture to be the onely Intire Absolute perfect Rule of Faith is fallen absolutely away from Christ and so ceaseth to be a true Church that is to have the very Essence and beeing of a true Church of Christ But the Church of Rome denyeth the Scripture to be the onely Intire Absolute Perfect Rule of Faith Ergo the Church of Rome is absoluely fallen away from Christ and so ceaseth to be a true Church that is to have the very Essence and beeing of a true Church of Christ. The Minor Proposition is confessed by your Lordship For you say The Church of Rome holds the Scripture but as A Rule a Partiall Rule an Imperfect Rule Thus she denyeth the Scripture to be the onely Intire Absolute Perfect Rule of Faith And for the Major Proposition you doe by necessary Consequence confesse it also to be true For you set it down as a Reason why you hold the Church of Rome to be a true Church because she holds the
this Relator professeth and teacheth a blind Charity sutable to his Faith which he boldly affirmeth to be not a mistaken Charity in granting that a silly ignorant Papist so living and dying may be Saved by his Ignorance in that Religion conforming himselfe to his Religious life and on the contrary condemning such Protestants of stiffenesse and churlishnesse that are not of the same Charity with him though the Replyer proveth that there is no true Charity without true Faith and Verity And whereas the same Relator is shewed in this Reply to give much more liberty to your Majesties Protestant People to goâ— to the Romish Masse as being with him one and the same undiffering Religion with that of England then the Jesuite doth to his blind Romanist to come to the English Church And whereas the same Relator hath many passages wherein he makes a Generall Councell of Prelates Iudge in all Controversies of Faith ascribing unto them an Infallibility and in case they shall erre and that even in grosse things and points of Faith yet that all men are bound to yeeld obedience at least externall till another Generall Counsell equall to the former reverse those Errours whereupon by Consequence of this Prelaticall doctrine as the Replyer doth instance the Church of England it self is bound to observe the worship of Images and the forbearance of the Cup in the Sacrament c. decreed in Generall Councels and not yet reversed by other Generall Councels equall to those And whereas the Relator calls Transubstantiation Purgatory and the forbearance of the Cup but disputable and Improbable Questions the nature of which is to be taken indifferently Pro and Con And whereas he never once in all his Relation calls the Romish-worship of Images and of the Sacrament or any other Idolatry in all the Romish Church but onely by the name of Superstition abstaining altogether from the name of Idolatry as if with him the Roman Church were no Idolatresse And whereas he much lamenteth the Seperation and rent between the Protestants and Rome with the continuance of it although with the Iesuite he confesse that errour in Faith is just cause of separation And whereas he the same Relator doth cunningly yet palpably enough in sundry passages of his Booke as also he hath openly done viva voce at the High-Commission-Board exclude all the Reformed Protestant Churches beyond the Seaes as no Churches of Christ as not admitting the Hierarchy Finally also in his Book quipping Luther and in him all the Reformed Churches as having made a rent not onely from Rome with her corruptions but even from the Catholick Church it selfe which indeed in the Relators sense and difinition of the Catholicke Church is most true to wit from the universall Hierarchy And whereas he the Relator doth every where highly extoll his Ceremonies in Gods worship as without which he saith there is no light left to shine before men that they may see his Devotion and so glorify GOD therein most foulely and odiously perverting and abusing the holy Text of Scripture uttered by CHRIST to a cleane other purpose as the Replyer hath noted all which Ceremonies being a will-worship after the Tradition and Commandement of men the Apostle doth utterly condemn as wherby the very merits of Christs death are made of none effect who in his death destroyed All Ceremonies in Religion obliging the Conscience and not onely the Leviticâ—ll but all other whatsoever of humane Ordinance as the Replyer clearely proveth So as it is not left to any Power on Earth to impose the least Ceremony yea though it be of nature indifferent to bind the Conscience in the service of GOD seeing all such imposition is Antichristian Tyranny And whereas all Prelaticall Hereticall and Antichristian Faction erected by the Prince of darkenesse against Iesus Christ and his Kingdome as is apparent both by their profession and practice wherein they have nothing at all yea not any one thing to show wherein they resemble either Christ or any one of his Apostles except Iudas Christs Kingdome being altogether spirituall and not of this world but the Hierarchy a meere carnall and worldly Kingdome onely guilded over with the bare name of spirituall And whereas the Relator throughout his whole Booke bewrayeth his most palpable and profound ignorance and notorious blindnesse in the whole mystery of Faith and all true divinity in so much as when ever he Cites Scripture he still perverts it to a wrong sense and is not able to bring any proofe either from Scripture or Common Reason except from some of his Jesuiticall Authors for any of his Paradoxes and strange doctrines delivering all without Book tanquam è Cathedra as but of some Papall unerring Chaire upon the Authority of his bare word and upon meere trust And whereas the Relator saith That worth once misled is of all other the greatest misleader and who of greater worth in the Church of England and in the Esteem of Great ones too then the Great Primate himselfe whose very word with many is taken as a divine Oracle So as if the Church and State of England will but pin their soules upon this Leaders sleeve he will not fayle to lead them in that way the issue whereof seem it never so right in the eyes of credulity will certainly prove to be as Solomon saith the wayes of death And whereas by the Relator sundry occasions are ministred to the Replyer of instancing divers practises charged upon the Prelate as the principall Agent or Instrument of setting up sundry Innovations in Religion in the Church of England all which have been done under his Primacie as The republishing under your Majesties Name the Book for liberty of profane Sports on the Lords day with pressing Ministers to read the Sayd Book in their severall Congregations and upon refusall extreamely persecuting them and thrusting them from their Ministry and meanes with their poore wives and children The authorizing and licencing of some Doctors Books which cry down the Morality of the 4 th Commandement for the Sanctifying of the Lords Sabbath day The setting forth of a New Order to restraine Preachers from Preaching in the Afternoones on the Lords dayes much pressed by the Prelates and their Officers in all their visitations The setting forth of a Declaration in your Majesties Name prefixed to the Articles of Religion which the Prelates practises plainly interpret to be for the restraining and prohibiting altogether the Doctrines of Saving Grace to be preached and wherein the genuine sense of those Articles touching Grace which formerly were universally interpreted to have but one sence agreeable to the Scripture is confounded with the heterodox hereticall doctrines of the Pelagians and Arminians so as none can tell what to make of those Articles saving that by this meanes the Orthodox Ministers must not preach the truth and the Adverse party and Faction may find footing and countenance for their groundlesse and gracelesse heresies and all this to the manifest
of your House-hold Gods With Sacred Corn and savory Salt by oddes Yea and every Schoole-boy knowes that Distich of old Cato Si Deus est animus nobis ut carmina dicunt Hic tibi praecipuè sit pura mente colendus If God as Poems say a Spirit be Then with pure mind let him be serv'd of thee And as the Roman Orator also said Non in Ambrosia Deus c. I doe not think saith he that God is delighted with Ambrosia or Nectar or such like sensuall delights in his Service Tuscul. Quaest. lib. 1. Thus you see how those Heathen even by the glimmering light of nature had a better opinion of God then our modern Prelates have or at least then our present Oracle of Canterbury hath shewed himselfe to have for how neere came they to that truth uttered by Christ God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth c. And if you propound the Jewes for example of State in the service of God first God commanded it and the magnificence of it was a Type of Christ and of his Spirituall Temples all glorious within Those Types are all vanished the truth being come And to revive that Service and those Types or to set up an Image of them you doe with the Jewes deny Christ to be come And for this Ierome shall answere you Si placeat aurum placeat et Iudaei If gold please you so well in the service of God let the Jewes also and Judaisme please you And the Poet Dicite Pontifices in Templo quid facit aurum Tell us you Pontificiall Priests what makes gold in the Temple And tell me whether was Adam and Eve more beautifull in Gods eyes and their own too having no other cloathing or ornaments upon them but their naked Innocencie then in their new devised fashion of Fig-leave-Aprons Although they now seemed gay with their borrowed leaves as the Crow with his borrowed feathers And surely this may be a very fit patterne to Sample your Church by For yours and Romes Church having lost their Primitive and Originall beauty of Innocencie Simplicity and Purity of Christs Spouse as the Love of God Saving Faith Soundnesse of Doctrine Sanctity of Conversation and Purity of his Worship which you have by so many of your Superstitions so miserably corrupted think you now to please GOD with a curious painted Service which serves to no other purpose then to please your owne fancie and other mens carnall senses Is not this a GREAT WITNES to the World of your notorious blindnesse and most grosse and palpable ignorance of the very nature of the Godhead who Is a Spirit and therefore will be worshiped in Spirit and truth And they who thus worship him in Spirit and Truth are the true Worshipers as the same Scripture Speakes and GOD seeketh such to worship him as is noted before So as that Inscription which the Apostle found upon that Altar in Athens Agnósto Theo To the unknowne God may it not be written as well upon your whole service which you dedicate to the unknowne God which being patched up like a Fooles gay Coate of so many diverse coloured shreddes wherein your service being dressed up you think it is wondrous pleasing to God doth not all this bewray that you doe all this service to a God whom you know not as whom your fancie frameth to be some carnall Man whose senses are delighted with such service as his Eares with Organs his Eyes with goodly Images curious wrought Copes rich Palls faire guilded Plate his Smell with sweet Incense his Majesty with siting upon your Stately High Altar as upon his Throne and to keep his Residence in your goodly Cathedrall as in his Royall Court May not then that which the Apostle thereupon Preached to the Athenian Philosophers be hereupon applyed to the Romish Rabbies and blind Prelates of Rome and of the Church of England Ye men of the Church of England I perceive that in all things ye are too Superstitious For as I passed by and beheld your Devotions marke your Devotions I found an Altar for blind Devotion cannot be without an Altar with this Inscription To the unknown God whom therefore ye ignorantly worship him declare I unto you God that made the world and all things therein seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth dwelleth not in Temples made with hands neither is worshiped with mens hands as though he needed any thing c. Forasmuch then as we are the Offspring of GOD we ought not to thinke that the Godhead is like unto Gold or Silver or Stone graven by art and mans devise And the times of this Ignorance GOD winked at but now commandeth all men every where to Repent Because he hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the world in Righteousnesse c. Now what say you to this all you blind Ceremony-Mongers Are you growne so stupid as not to be sensible how this toucheth you as much yea and much more then those Athenians What Are you so blind and senselesse as for all this to dreame that GOD accepts your ga◠Puppet-play as a Service of Piety done to him Nay GOD tooke so little delight in those Sacrifices and Rites which himselfe ordained in the Law and much lesse when the people rested in the outward performance and observance of them that he Saith Who required these things at your hands to tread in my Courts c. So also Psal. 50.8 I will not reprove thee for thy Sacrifices to have been continually before me I will take no bullocke out of thy house c. No Who so offereth me thanks and praise honoureth me and to him that ordereth his Conversation aright will I shew the Salvation of God Now consider this ye that forget God least I teare you in pieces and there be none to deliver Yea the consideration hereof brought Christ down from the bosome of his Father to offer up his body as the onely acceptable and All sufficient Sacrifice to put an end to all carnall rites and services If then Gods own Ordinances in the Law did not please him but that he must send his Sonne in the flesh to fullfill all things then what hope can you have that your vaine Superstitious devises should please GOD or that he should otherwise be affected with them but thereby to be provoked to send his Sonne the Second time in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God even all blind worshipers but much more willfully blind such as obey not the Gospel of our Lord Iesus Christ c. Then shall all your Sumptuous Ceremonies and Solemne Service be discovered and the rotten inside of your hypocriticall formalities be turned out to the view of all the world Like to Cardinall Campeius his Sumpter which with a justle in Cheape-side the girts bursting downe it falls and out fly the old Boots and Shooes and
the Scripture doth suo jure vindicare challenge as her own right and which no man can take from her And if Theologie must borrow or begge this principle Of whom Of the Tradition of the Church Beware of that For then the Borrower should be servant to be Lender as Solomon saith And to Begge it were worse But if Theologie have this principle of her owne and it in the Scriptures possession what need she goe either to begge or borrow it and that of those who can neither give or lend it And if this be a Principle that Scripture 〈◊〉 the word of God What use of your Church Tradition For Principles are not to be denied But you denying that this can be beleeved without the Tradition of the present Church doe first induce unto it then you are one of those that deny Principles And Contra negantem Principia non est disputandum we are not to dispute against him that denyeth Principles but in this case to hold him as an Heretick and to deale with him as the Apostle admonisheth A man that is an Hereticke after the first and second Admonition reject knowing that he that is such is subverted and sinneth being a'utokatákritos selfe-condemned L. p. 105. The evidence of supernaturall Truths which Divinity teaches appeares not so manifest as that of the Naturall though in themselves more sure and infallible P. Appeares not true indeed to a naturall man Here you speake by experience But to the spirituall man this evidence appeares very clearely for as the Apostle saith The Naturall man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishnesse unto him Neither can â—e know them because they are spiritually discerned But he that is spirituall judgeth all things as Solomon also saith Evill men understand not judgement But they that seeke the Lord understand all things L. p. 106. Faith is a mixed Act of the Will and the understanding and the Will inclines the understanding to yeeld full approbation to that whereof it sees not full proof Not but that there is full proofe of them But because the maine grounds which prove them are concealed from our view and folded up in the unrevealed Councel of God God in Christ resolving to bring mankind to their last happinesse by Faith and not by Knowledge That so the weakest among men may have their way to blessednesse open P. 'T is true that Faith being the life of the soule anima animae as Aug. speaks doth informe and quicken all the faculties thereof as the Will Understanding Reason Affections so as the Will doth no more incline the Vnderstanding to assent this being the opinion of those Schoolmen that hold the Will to be the seat of Faith as others do hold the Vnderstanding Then the Vnderstanding doth the Will or Reason the Affections But Faith being that Grace which quickneth the whole soule and in it all the faculties as aforesaid it is this Faith Principally that inclineth all the whole soule with all its faculties to yeeld their unanimous assent unto it And yet I deny not a mutuall reciprocation and interchangeable cooperation which is between these faculties as in the naturall man so in the spirituall man regenerate by faith For as in the naturall man somtimes the Vnderstanding inclines the Will somtimes the Will the Vnderstanding sometimes Reason inclines the Affections and somtimes the Affections incline Reason and that oftentimes with great violence to a wrong object the like working there is among the sanctified faculties of the soule Regenerate somtimes the Vnderstanding inclining the Will somtimes the Will the Vnderstanding and sometimes the Affections incline both as the Apostle saith speaking of zeale for God Whether we be besides our selves it is to God or whether we be sober it is for your Cause For the love of Christ constraineth us And the affections of the Apostle towards Christ were so strong in him that they carryed his Vnderstanding Will and Reason along with them with strong hand when notwithstanding he was told of dangers yea bonds abiding him at Ierusalem and earnestly desired of his Friends not to goe thither he answered What meane ye to weep and to breake mine heart For I am ready not to be bound onely but also to dye at Ierusalem for the Name of the Lord Iesus And Christ himselfe was so full of holy Zeale and strong Affections as he was carryed with a wonderfull violence of them insomuch as they said of him that he was madde And his friends one time went to lay hold on him saying he was besides himselfe And many of Christ his Servants his Ministers being carryed with a strong love of Christ and zeale for his glory expressed in their courragious witnessing of the truth against wicked men the enemies thereof although their Vnderstanding apprehend the danger and their Will could be content to live in peace yet the Affection here carries all along with it and they willingly follow because the same Faith guides and carries all along with it whence it comes to passe that the affection here to Christ and to truth being as it were the Leader of the rest the Vnderstanding Reason and Iudgement least appearing in the sence of the world men are thereupon so apt and prone to Censure such Ministers of indiscretion But this may shew the inward opperation of the faculties of a regenerate soule how one works upon another reciprocally and one inclines another somtimes the superiour faculties the inferiour and somtimes the inferiour the superiour but Faith is the principall agent working in and inclining all It is not then the Will that alwayes inclines the Vnderstanding but the Grace of Faith which infused doth at once both illuminate incline and draw both the Will and Vnderstanding to rest in the saving truth of God apprehended by Faith This Faith I say doth so illuminate the whole soule with all its faculties as that it selfe brings meat in the mouth as ye say even a full proofe in it selfe of the things beleeved so as now not onely the affiance of the Will but the affiance and certain knowledge of the Vnderstanding doe rest themselves in the cleare evidence which Faith it selfe bringeth with it which evidence hath the ample and sure Testimony both of the word of God and of the Spirit of God whose worke it is For this saving Faith never goes alone but is both ushered in and wrought and accompanied with the word and Spirit of Christ. For so soon as Faith is conceived in the soule it unites to Christ and so it hath communion with Christ together with his Spirit mimediately so as both the Will and the Vnderstanding and the whole soule heart and affections so soon as Faith possesseth them which Faith is a plerophoria full assurance of the things beleeved and a cleare evidence of them though not seen as before is shewed there is withall exhibited both in and with Faith a full sufficient
Primitive Church and Generall Councels is the Iudge of Controversies whereunto you professe to submit in all humility Thus these 12 Conclusions be as the 12 Articles of your Faith But now let 's a little examine what Truth or Force there is in all these I confesse some of them are somwhat coincident and like Brookes fall one into another but all have their Confluence into your Generall Councel as one maine Ocean But we will take a say of each as they run along For the first and so the rest which have any generall concurrence with it I deny that a Generall Councel is a sufficient and competent Iudge of Controversies in matters of Faith My Reasons are these First Because Generall Councels consisting of Prelates and more especially in these latter times are so much the unabler to judge of the sense of Scripture where 't is deep or doubtfull As Nicolaus de Clemangus in his Tract De Concilus Generalibus discourseth very largely and pregnantly of this very Circumstance shewing that Prelates are none of those to whom God doth reveale the mysteries of his will in his Word which are altogether spirituall but Prelates are carnall proud ambitious covetous minding the things of the world His whole Discourse is worth the Reading And Arelatensis Arch-Bishop of Arles in France in the Councel of Basil said that they had no zeale nor love nor knowledge of the Truth but every one would be of his Kings Religion and was ready to say as his King would have him and that the poore Priests were those by whom the Truth was upholden And not to goe farre from home If a Generall Councel were assemblâ—d of such Prelates as you are who have no savour of and lesse favour to the Truth having bewrayd in this your Book besides your usuall practises how contrary your spirit is to Christs spirit and wisdome Certainly asmuch as in you were you would bring utter confusion upon the world in seting up and establishing your Babilonish Faith and Religion And I have noted before how the poore in spirit such as feare the Lord are those Eagles Christ speaks of whose eyes are sharpest to pierce into the Mysteries of the Scriptures as having Gods holy Spirit to guide them into all Truth Heare what the wiseman saith The rich man is wise in his own conceit but the poore that hath understanding searcheth him out I leave it to your Application And Christ rejoycing in Spirit saith I thanke thee ô Father Lord of heaven and earth that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto babes even so Father for it seemed good in thy sight Againe Prelates especially such as your selfe are taken up with State-matters and all of them generally with their worldly affaires and great Revenues so as they have little leasure so much as to thinke of Divine matters or to care for the state of mens soules or to seek to advance Christs Kingdome as being a'pellotriomenoi tes politeÃas tou Israèl as the Apostle speakes Aliens from the Common-wealth of Israel Yea even those that have good learning and judgement in Divinity which they had before they were Prelates after they come once to be Prelates they are so choked with the world and so over-awed with the servile feare of man that they dare doe nothing for the Truth especially in a time wherein it is openly opposed and oppressed but are willing to sleep in a whole skin and to let Religion and Faith sinke or swimme so they may injoy their Lordships and fill their Coffers Againe suppose a Generall Councel of Prelates were called for the purpose to judge and determine of the Controvesie about the Calling of Prelates whether it be Iure divino by Divine Authority or no as it was in Question and agitation in the Councel of Trent would not such a Councel trow you be Partiall in their own Cause and Define with one voyce That Prelates are an Order and of a Calling Jure divino and that Christ thought it fittest to governe his Church by such visible Iudges and Vice-roys Or if the Controversie were whether the Church alwayes collective in the Prelates have power to ordaine Ceremonies in Gods service to the Obedience and conformity whereof all mens Consciences are bound by which Imposition Gods people come to loose that liberty which Christ hath purchased for them and Christ should lose his Royall soveraignty as King in his Church as before is shewed it is not easie to Divine what the Difinition of such a Councel would be Or is there any Question to be made but that without any more adoe they would Order Determine Define and Conclude that Prelates the Church Collective have power to ordaine what Ceremonies they please in the worship and service of God which shall bind all mens Consciences to the necessary obedience and observation therof Would they herein have any respect to Christian liberty or Christs Prerogative Would they not with the Scribes and Pharisees and High Priests in their Councel condemn Christ for his Title of King of the Iews And because you are so much for a Generall Councel as Iudge in Controversies What say you to the first Generall Councel of Nice wherein there were above 300 Prelates as I remember Had they not all consented to the making of a Decree for the establishing of a Doctrine of Devils to wit forbidding Marriage to all Ecclesiasticall Persons had not one man Paphnutius and he an unmarried man too stood up and withstood such a Decree shewing by many Reasons and Arguments from Scripture and otherwise how wicked and cruel such a Decree were So early began the Mystery of Iniquity to bud forth and that in the most Ancients and in the very Prime or first Generall Councel wherein these Fathers the Prelates were so piously zealous though ignorantly to lay the foundation of a generall Aposticie from the Faith in establishing such a Doctrine of Devils as the Apostle calls it of which suffciently before Yet by your Doctrine If that Generall Councel of so many Prelates had determined it and ratified it by Decree all Priests then were bound to obedience untill another Generall Councell equall to that should reverse it which should have been long enough when every Age grew successively worse then other And thus in the very first and best Generall Councel after the Apostles a Doctrine of Devils should have been ratified and therein an Apostacie from the Faith and all men must have yeelded obedience at least externall enough to keep all your Priests from Marriage and so all Prelates and Priests should so quickly have proved a Generation of Apostates from the Faith Againe if you have a Generall Councel you must not according to the Councel of Frier Franciscus à S. Clara admit of any Puritans or the precise Party of the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas no not such as you call Puritan Bishops For you see
then as now was no lesse sensible then visible when sitting most conspicuous in their Courts they condemned Christs true Church for an Heretiâ—ke delivering it over to the seculer power for a burnt sacrifice And was not this that Church then of which you tell us when you say Our Church was just there then where Romes is nâ—w So as we need make no doubt but your now conspicuous Church of England was one and the same with that in Maryâ—s dayes onely that Church by vertue of a Law burned the Saints of God and you without Law bury them quick You aâ—e all for a conspicuous visibility of a Prelaticall or Hierarchicall Church But Christs true Church as before is otherwise which hath for the Bishop of her soule the Lord Iesus Christ who is no Non Resident Bishop but perpetually resident and present with all his Congregations Yea where but two or three are assâ—mâ—led in his Name there is He in the midst of them He saith not In a Cathedrall or other Church but indefinitely Wheresoever as in a Chamber in a private room as the Apostles were for feare of the High Priests During which time where was the conspicuous visibility of the true Church untill the day of Penticost came when there was a new Church collâ—ctive of all nations under heaven Againe Christ saith not Where there is a multitude but Where two or three nor assembled in a Prelâ—tâ—s name as members of a Prelaticall Church but In may Name saith Christ in the faith of me according to my word then and there am I in the midst of them to rule and protect as King to teach as Prophet as Priest to present their persons and sacrifices to my Father These these are those Churches or Congregations which you scorne and scoffe at and which you persecute and punish as â—alefactors for so assembling as where Christ is present among them which plainly bewrayes your selves to be the false Church which you say must be continually visible L. p. 320. A Church may hold the Fundamentall point literally and as long as it stayâ—s there be without controwle and yet erre grosly dangerously nay damnably in the exposition of it And this is the Church of Romes case For most true it is it hath in all Ages maintained the Faith unchanged in the expression of the Articles themsâ—lves but it hath in the exposition both of Creeds and Councels quite changed and lost both the sense and meaning of some of them So the Faith is in many things changed both for life and beliefe and yet seems the same Now that which deceives the world is that because the barke is the same men thinke this old decayed tree is as sound as it was at first and not wether-beaten in any age But when they can make me beleeve that painting is true beauty I le beleeve too that Rome is not onely sound but beautifull P. First here I must note the perplexed and confused frame of your first sentence You say A Church may hold thâ— fundamentall point literally and as long as it stayes there be without controwle and yet erre grosly dangerously nay damnably in the exposition of it As much as if you had sayd That a Church may hold the fundamentall point literally and erre grosly dangerously nay damnably in the exposition of it and yet be without Controwle As for As long as it stayes there namely in holding the fundamentall point literallâ— how is it without controwle when notwithstanding the holding of the letter it erre grosly dangerously nay damnably in the exposition of it For you joyne and jumble all together the holding of the letter and the overthrowing of the sense and yet want controwle And what 's the letter where the sense is lost What 's the barke when the pith and marrow is gone As Iâ—rome saith Gods word standeth non in verborum cortice sed in medulla sententiarum not in the barke of words but in the pith of the sense Well And this is Romes case say you How Most true it is say you that it hath in all ages maintained the faith unchanged in the expression of the Articles themselves but it hath in the exposition both of Creeds and Councels quite changed and lost the sense and meaning of some of them So the faith is in many things changed both for life and beliefe and yet seems the same Here againe do you not most pittifully enterfere Faith is lost in the exposition and yet kept in the expression of the Articles Have not you lost sense in this expression except you can recover it by a better exposition For you separate the expression from the exposition So you leave the Articles as a dead carcase without a soule For there is no faith kept in the expression of the letter without the true exposition of the sense And if the sense be lost the faith is lost And what expression of faith doe you call that which is abstracted from the sence But Rome hath lost the sense but of some of them Of which And whether of Creeds or Councels For here you shuffle both together too as making Councels of equall Authority with the Creeds I did not thinke before this nor yet that Councels Decrees are to be taken as Creeds Onely I might have learned of you before That Councels Decrees though they be erronious must bind all to obedience and then sure they are little inferiour to Creeds saving that those may be reversed by another Generall Councel but these not But however Rome is the same barke of a Church still Ergo a true Church still Why the Barke is not the Tree no more then a Sheep-skin is a Sheep No nor yet hath Rome so much as the barke of the true Church of Christ left Looke upon her outward hew and habit and there we shall find nothing but the habitements of the great Whore and the Ensignes of Antichrist with his Church Malignant warring against the true Spouse and Church of Christ. And both these we find in that one Chapter where the Woman is set out to the life Her Habilements She fits upon a scarlet coloured Beast full of Names of Blasphemy having seven Heads and Ten Hornes and she is arayed in purple and scarlet colour and decked with gold and precious stone and Pearle having a golden Cup in her hand full of abominations and filthinesse of her fornications with a Label on her forehead to know her the Better a Name written Mystery Babylon the Great the Mother of Harlots and abominations of the Earth and she is drunken with the blood of the Saints And a little after we see her Ensignes set up and those be her ten Hornes the power of Kings which she instigateth to make warre with the Lamb and those on his side the Called and Chosen and Faithfull Now the Whores habit is not the habit of Christs Spouse This is not the barke of the weather-beaten Tree of Gods
whence I conclude upon your own words that Rome holds not beleeves not the whole Creed and consequently she hath lost and overthrown the whole Creed For overthrowing the sense of any one Articlâ— she overthrows the whole as before And in a word the Church of Rome overthrows the whole Creed in overthrowing the first word of it Credo I beleeve which gives denomination life and beeing to the whole And a maine flaw in the foundation overthrows the whole building And that Rome doth this is cleare for as she hath made a new Creed all of drosse so she hath coyned a new sense to the Credo of the old Creed For she doth not beleeve the Creed with a saving justifying lively faith as is shewed before but hath cancelled and accursed it in her Councel of Trent And so though she hold Credo Deum beleeving that there is a God as even the Heathen doe for quae gens tam barbara c. what nation so barbarous that beleeves not there is a God as the heathen Roman Orator sayd yet she doth not hold any other Creed of God For she holds not simply and absolutely no more then you Credo Deo beleeving God speaking in the Scripture but dependently upon the Authority and Interpretation of the Church And least of all doth she hold Credo in Deum which is the justifying and saving Faith as Augustine Bernard and others of the more Ancients distinguish and define For as Bernard saith Credere in Deum est credendo diligere credendo in eum ire ei uniri c. To beleeve in God is by beleeving to love God by beleeving to goe into him and to be united unto him Now this faith Romes is not for as is shewed before out oâ— the Councel of Trent their faith is without love and doth not goe into God but with which going to hell they are separate from God for evermore So as the Article or Decree of Trent having destroyed the old Credo in Deum she must have some new Credo or els none at all And you doe ibid. rightly interpret the word Vâ—gâ—ès which Athanasius expresseth the â—ustifâ—iâ—g faith of the Creed by namely sound and intire so as if it be not a sound and intire faith such as the Scripture commends and is proper to all true Beleevers the Elect a 〈…〉 is to no purpose And a little after you say 〈…〉 This is true Divinity that he which hopes for salvation 〈…〉 who le Creed and in the right sense too if he be able to 〈…〉 it P. Till this If hem'd in with a Parenthesis I was halfe in hope you had assented to my former speech That the Church of Rome in not holding the right sense of the Creed overthrâ—ws the whâ—le But your Parenthesis so hedgeth in your silly ignorant that it is a sanctuary to secure their ignorance from Râ—mâ—s damnation so as though they have no hope of salvation yet they are in no feare of Romes damnation as being not able to beleeve the whole Creed because not able to comprehend the right sense of it within the narrow circumference of their shallow brainpan But behold closse by another hedge L. p. 343. To hold the Creed inviolate is not as I take itâ— the holding of the true sense but not to offer violence or a forced seâ—se and meaning upon the Creed which every man doth not that yet beleeves it not a true sense For not to beleeve the true sense of the Creed is one thing but 't is quite another to force a wrong sense upon it P. Thus still the Lady and all silly ignorant Papists if ever by their blindnesse they shall happen to stumble upon salvation trusting to the meere simplicity of their ignorance living and dying in the Roman faith not knowing what it is nor able to beleeve any one Article of the Creed in a right sense may thank you for thus incouraging them upon this hope of possibility of an impossible salvation And the case stands thus The Church of Rome in her Councel of Trent hath put a forced sense upon the Creed and so hath made a violation of the faith This forced sense Romes Clergie in the Catechisme of Trent forceth and presseth upon their blind people to beleeve Now tell me What difference is there between the forcing of a false sense upon the Creed which the Councel of Trent hath done and all Romes Clergy conveys the false sense if any at all as â—ank poyson into the minds of their Blindlings so farre as they are capable of any errour being capable of nothing els and the voluntary receiving and imbracing of that false sense and that not onely in beleeving it but so obstinately adhereing to it as they will not they dare not as you befoâ—e confesse beleeve otherwise though the truth be tendered unto him which is the generall condition of all ignorant Papists And being in this case what way now can you find out for them which may bring these misbeleevers or rather no-beleever to salvation What hope can you give them that have no faith And what faith can they have that cannot belâ—eve that cannot may not dare not have no meanes to comprehend the râ—ght sence of the Creed but the forced sense that Rome puts upon it and them L. p. 349. As for Origen I thinke he was the first founder of Purgatory P. This here of Purgatory bordering so neere your last Passage of your misbeleeving Papists gives me occasion to imagine how necessary it were for you to be the first Inventer of some other place in hell like unto that Limbus Infantum where provision may be made to intertaine your silly Infant-Papists that are not able to give any one reason of that hope of salvation which you force upon them and which you have been the first inventer of That as Popish Infants dying without Baptisme goe to their Limbus where they are sensible neither of joy nor paine so your silly ignorants having no sense of any true faith and knowledge of God or of themselves here when they dye they may goe to such a like place or Limbus where they may neither injoy blisse nor suffer paine But a word of Purgatory in the mean time For the first Founder of it in my poore reading I find the Heathen Plato For he tells us as of 3 sorts of men in this world some very good and some starke nought and some indifferent so he fits 3 places for these 3 sorts after this life 1 Elysium the Elysian fields meaning thereby a place of pleasure as Paradise into which went those immediately who were very good 2. Hell whither the very worst went 3. a middle place or lake into which the moderate or indifferent men were cast after death and after a certaine time there as a yeare or two or more as they were lesse or more good or bad being well purged were cast forth againe Whence they went into the Elysian fields
of England doth Againe you make it no great matter of difference in this case between your Protestant and the Romanist whither this or that goe to each others Church so his Conscience put not a barre As you tell us a little after That the Church of Rome and the Protestants do not set up a different Religion Of which in its place And here also you put no difference but that the Romanist doth as well serve and worship God after his Roman manner in his Idolatrous Masse as your Protestant doth after your English manner And perhaps the difference will not be found so great between you but that you will well enough agree when you have cast up your reckoning But now what if one of your simple Protestants be not resolved in Conscience of the profession of the truth in the Church of England more then of that in the Church of Rome Is it not then lawfull for him to goe to the Romish Masse With â—ou it seems so so his Conscience hinder him not And what Conscience hath your ignorant Protestant to hinder him in this case Nay I will say more What knowing Protestant have you at this day in the present Church of England since the publishing of your Declaration before the 39 Articles which makes some of the principall of them to beare a double and contrary sense that is or can be resolved in his Conscience that either the true faith or so much as the Profession of the true faith is in the Church of England For those Articles which containe the Doctrine of your Church you confesse to be ambiguous and doubtfull and doe not resolve either way but leave your Church in suspense how then can any Protestant of the Church of England be resolved in Conscience that the Profession of the true faith is in the Church of England when neither your selfe seems to be resolved or at least you doe not resolve your Church concerning your Articles what to beleeve Which being so may you not fairely hence conclude that it is lawfull for any Protestant of the Church of Engdaud to goe to the Romish Church there and in that manner to serve and worship God untill he shal be resolved in his Conscience that the profession of the true faith is in the Church of England which resolution is not like to be till your Lordship hath resolved them which is the true and orthodox sense of your Articles and that by a publicke edâ—ct athenticke and every way equall to the former as in the case of Generall Councels when the errours of one must be obeyed till another equall to that shall reverse it As before But in the meane time unlesse you make the more hast with your Edict for Resolution your whole Church of England is now at liberty to goe to Masse and so to turne Romanist as having nothing to restrain them were there but Masses enough to intertaine them as no doubt there be Priests enough for the purpose had they but Churches so long as their Conscience is not resolved of the profession of the true faith in the Church of England And so the Broad Gates are set upon for the Consummation of your so much wished and plotted Reconcliation with the Church of Rome And you adde L. p 376. Nor do the Church of Rome and the Protestants set uâ— a different Religion fâ—r thâ— Christian Religion is the same to both but they differ in the same Religion and the difference is in certaine grâ—ssâ— corruptions to the very indangering of salvation which each side sâ—yâ—s the other is guilty of P. By Protestants here 't is plain enough you mean those of the Church of England not those of the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas I am sure of it For they utterly renounce the Romish Religion and Faith as Antichristian which you avow for Christian the same with yours But they differ say you in the same Religion How They do not set up a different Religion and yet they differ in the same Religion I understand not this Babylonish language But wherein then doe they differ in the same and undiffering Religion In some certaine grosse corruptions say you But in some not in all grosse corruptions which are indifferent and common to you both And what grosse corruptions are common to both those shall not be put in the reckoning of corruptions at all each covering other with the mantle of Charity Yea such as you both agree in are the very substance of your Religion And the whole substance of the Romish yea of all Christian Religion saith Bellarmine is the Masse This then must be That same undiffering Christian Religion which you both set up And herein how much doe you dister Have you not both your Altars the main substance on the service whereof all the rest attend as your Priests Sacrifice Images Crucifixes Adorations Organs curious musicke and many other devises for your pompous service your Liturgie differing more in the language then in the matter and forme But you will say you differ in Transustantiation Yet you are willing to have a reall Presence confessed and professed with you as is noted before But you say the difference is in certaine grosse corruptions indangering salvation On which side Each side say you charges other I have heard two butter women scold and each layd to other grievous things and the one said Thou playdst the whore and the other sayd Thou playdst the whore Which of these trow you was the honester Woman She haply that had lesse playd the whore then the other which perhaps was not for want of will but opportunity You and Rome charge each other with grosse corruptions which yet are one and the same in both Doth not thus the shame of both the more appeare Your grosse corruptions on both sides can agree well enough if you can be quiet Yea and that to the indangering of Salvation too For have you not to be silent in the rest both your Altars which are alone sufficient to sacrifice upon all your faith and salvation and so to leave you neither faith nor salvation in Christ as whom also you sacrifice thereon together with your faith and salvation For we shewed before that your Altars doe overthrow and deny Iesus Christ the onely Altar of true beleevers If then you both doe agree in the grossest corruptions as those whereby your salvation is not onely indangered but destroyed which is the maine of your Religion wherin you differ not what need there be any oddes between you for the rest Both sides complain of each other both have their corruptions and grosse ones too such as overthrow salvation Then let your conscious ingenuity confesse to each other and your conscientious Charity pardon each other And so let the world be troubled no more with your Differences but be good friends and agree as sisters L. p. ibid. It may appeare by all the former Discourses to any Indifferent Reader that Religion as it is
by pregnant Comparisons ib. 83. How the Prelate hangs the Beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God necessarily upon the Authority of the present Church and other such poore inducements all but meere probabilities which may beget opinion but never beliefe 152 153 154 155. All examined and proved to be meere vanity in all which the Prelate destroyes all Faith and hope of Salvation 156. also 157. In what sense and way onely a Naturall Man being led by the Prelates hand as of the present Church to read the Scripture may be induced to beleeve it is the very word of GOD 154. 84. Further notorious blasphemies of the Prelate in derogating from Scripture as having no light but as a candle in a box of 12 in the pound till Tradition of the present Church doe light it Examined 157 158 159. How the Prelate perverts the Scripture and puts out the light of it 157. Other blasphemies of the Prelate against the Scripture Gods word and the Holy Ghost making his Church-Tradition the eyes inlightner 159 160 161. Gods own voyce in Scripture read and preached begets beliefe that it is Gods word 161. 85. The Prelates prosecution of this Argument in advancing his present Church Authority further confuted 162 163. 85 86. A Subtile and Sly evasion of the Prelate from the Jusuites true objection 164. A pretty tricke of Legerdemain 195. Scriptures full light teacheth a perfect knowledge against the Prelates Evasion 165 166. 87. The Prelates perverting of Scripture in his Babylonish confounding the Historicall with the Saving and justifying Faith as he alwayes doth and another Scripture in confounding the regenerate with the unregenerate 166. to 170. Whereupon the Replyer addes a notable Discourse of the nature of true Saving Faith 170 to 174 as namely of its admirable operations in the severall faculties of the Soule with its excellencie c. The Prelate Contradicts himselfe not knowing wherof he affirmeth Saving that by Faith he ever meaneth a false Faith whereby he destroyeth the true 173. The Sure beliefe of Scripture is a Christians sure comfort in trouble 172 173. 88. Hookers Sensible Demonstration so applauded by the Prelate throughly scanned and soundly proved to be false by most evident Demonstrations proving the Scripture to prove it selfe Gods word 174 to 177. The Prelates Ground from Nature being applyed to Scripture proved false and Christs Saying which the Prelate objecteth cleared 177 178. 89. Hookers stating of the Question commended by the Prelate for Tradition as the Key to open the Entrance to Scripture proved false in the Prelates sense and that Key to be a false pick-lock 178 179. 91. How the Prelate in charging the Pope for usurping Lordship over the world is taken tardy for doing the like himselfe over All England contrary to S. Peters rule alledged by the Prelate 180. 93. What assistance Lawfully sent Pastors and Teachers have ordinarily of God 180.181 95. The Prelate selfe-condemned ibid. 98. The Prelate belyes the Scripture to credit his Church-Tradition 182. Scripture little heholden to the Prelates Church-Tradition ib. His bold belying the Scripture as if that gave Authority to his usurped Church-Tradition ib. The Prelate catcht in his own Delemma or Net ibid. A Solecisme of the Prelate ibid. 100. The Prelate maliciously yoakes the precise party as he calls it with the Jesuite onely making that 10 times worse 183 184. The precise party with the Prelates factious silence Ministers vindicated from his wicked and false reproches 184 185 186. The Prelates 3 marks of his imagined Author of Ipswich Newes 186. The Prelates hypocriticall words and desperate deeds for Preaching how they agree and his cursed hypocrisie cryed shame of by his infamous practises 187. The Prelate knows not what true Preaching meanes 188. Difference between true Sermons and the Preachers for infallibility ibid. The Prelates Diabolicall malice against the true Preachers of Gods word 189. The Replyer at length forced by the Prelate to answre his compari-tween the Ancient Fathers and the best moderne Reformed Dison be vines for Preaching 190 191. Other Cavils of the Prelate answered 192 193. 104. The Prelate perverteth the Fathers to uphold Tradition still which they were against to the Prelates sense 194 195 196. Prelates Popish pretence of Scriptures deepnesse to draw men from them to seek to the Oracles of the present Church Tradition 196 to 199. With the mischiefes that may follow upon it ibid. The Prelates Popish zeale noted by occasion in his forcing all Bibles to be bound with Apochrypha 196 197. How the Prelate overthrows a true Principle and Maxime by a false 198. Grace makes Supernaturall truth more evident then Nature doth the Naturall 199. 106. Another excellent discourse of Saving Faith occasioned by the Prelate bewraying his profound ignorance herein 200 201 202. The Prelats bold belying and blaspheming Gods secret Councels 202. The Prelates broad blind Popish way 203. Fully confuted 203 204. 109. Prelate againe blasphemeth in belying Gods Councels 205. 1â—6 The Prelate hangs the Credit of Scripture upon mans opinions of Gods sufficiencie ibid. Mans opinion of Gods sufficiencie how vaine blind and impotent 206. The Prelate himselfe proved to have a blind opinion of God and of his Sufficiencie and consequently he is an Infidel not beleeving the Scripture to be Gods word 207 108. as which saith he depends on mans opinion of Gods sufficiencie 111. The Prelate still detracts from Scripture all along 208. 113. By the Prelates Doctrine the Faith of all the Apostles Martyrs ancient Fathers and Doctors which know no such Tradition of the present Church as a necessary prime inducement to lead them to the beliefe of Scripture to be Gods word is Hereticall and Schismaticall 206 210. Ergo the Prelaticall Church Schismaticall and Hereticall 115. Most notorious blasphemy of the Prelate against the Holy Ghost making him the Author of falshood as is shewed 211 212 213 214. Sundry probable Reasons layd down by the Replyer why the Prelate should as he doth chuse the light of nature as the Second to his Church Tradition to introduce beliefe of Scripture to be Gods word and of God to be God 212 213. No reverend perswasion of Scripture had till first the Tradition of of the present most Reverend Father commend it as Laudable 212. How the Prelate dallies with Romish Idolatry 211. How the Prelate hangs mans beliefe of God as of Scripture upon his Church Tradition 212. 116 The Prelates good inclination to mans free-will in beleeving The Prelates notorious and grosse hypocrisie pretending respect to the Scripture to be the motive of his tedious vain groundlesse and gracecâ—ssâ— discourse in disgracing and vilifying of it altogether and that as gâ—osly as ever any â—esuiâ—e did 215 216. The Prelaâ—es most wickâ—d perverting and abusing of Scripture 216 Wâ—o are his Christianly dâ—sposed men whom in his Discourse he â—ndâ—avoureth to satisfie ibid. 118. A nimble shift and put off of the Prelates 217. The absurbity of his Comparison of his
vaine and wicked thought concerning GOD as if he favoured him and his wicked practises and all because GOD was silent and patient in forbeâ—reing to reprove and punish him Now to apply this If you can find any to whom these things may more fitly and truely be applyed then your selfe doe you apply them home unto them But till you doe give us leave to apply them so farre to your Lordship as we have sufficient warrant and good evidence for First do not you in this your Booke in particular pretend at least to declare Gods word and speak of his Covenant as if you would become a Champion to maintain the holy Scripture against the Roman Adversaries thereof This you professe and willingly grant But in the proofe hereof you set us up Mans Authority above the Scripture as we shall see in the due place And doe you not withall hate instruction and cast Gods word behind you when being by Gods Minister as of late reprooved and convinced of such things as you neither could nor can deny to be true as being written in Capitall Letters in your forehead and on the palmes of your hands yet you not onely hated and despised the reproofe and instruction which was according to Gods word and the duty of a Minister whose strict charge is among other things to reproove with all authority but also have manifested this your hatred and contempt in persecuting this poore Minister beyond all measure and example yea and still continue persecuting him to this day and that most Antichristianly and not onely him but his Wife and Children who have done you no offence at all not suffering the one to goe see her Husband nor the other their Father O my Lord heaven rings of this your fury and the earth groaneth under such more then Heathenish inhumanity not sorting with the Law of common humane nature O How shall you escape the damnation of hell And what plagues may not the Land expect for being guilty of such innocent blood and of such unheard of Barbarisme and that also maintained and continued in cold blood Yea and doth not the spirit of the Beast in you breath out persecution and blast many other of Gods faithfull Ministers never leaving them till you have rooted them out And this you neither feare to practise nor shame to professe And then againe Doe you not give your mouth to Evill and frame your tongue to Deceit You frame it as having a special art and Method in it as the Apostle spekas which you expresse in the fourth mark especially Sitting and speaking against your brother and slandering your own Mothers Son as will further yet appeare and doth by your continuall and dayly practises and specially in or at your High Commission chaire or Boord where as else where you have a power to doe what you list without controule or contradiction And for carnall security in an impious and Atheisticall conceit of GOD as if a favourer of wicked practises because a patient forbearer to punish them presently examine your own heart nay may we not both read it in your courses and understand it by your speeches in sundry places of your Booke where you would seem to have a speciall interest in Gods favour as in his admirable restoring you as you say from your dangerous Fever though you there forgot as those nine Lepers that Christ clensed to return him thanks so much as verball And for the further and fuller clearing of the verefying of all this in your selfe I shall call your Book to witnesse In the meane time here Heare Gods doom against this wicked Man But I will reprove thee and set them in order before thee He will bring every worke to judgement with every secret thing whether good or evill And as David elswhere saith Wherefore doth the wicked contemn GOD He hath said in his heart Thou wilt not require it Thou hast seen it O GOD for thou beholdest mischiefe and spight to require it with thy hand the poore committeth himselfe unto thee Thou art the helper of the Fatherlesse Breake thou the arme of the wicked and the evill man Seeke out his wickednesse till thou find none But How long Lord Holy and True Surely when he maketh inquisition for blood he remembreth them he forgetteth not the cry of the Humble There is a day of Gods visitation a comming and it hasteneth yea we may see it even at the doores Therefore Davids inference hereupon will sort well in this place O consider this ye that forget GOD least I teare you in pieces and there be none to deliver Thus you may see what need you have to beware how you meddle with such edg'd tooles in misapplying the holy Word of God for it is a sharpe two edged sword which not skilfully handled as a Sword in a mad mans hand but applyed to a wrong use and object will rebound back upon you and wound you God give you Grace to repent if possible if you be not come to that Sklurâ—tata kai ametanamton kardian as the Apostle speakes hardnesse and impenitent heart treasuring up wrath against the day of wrath I am plain you see if there may be hope and surely 't is no time now to spare when we heare Gods Trumpet sounding the Alarme You proceed L. p. ibid. In the midst of these libellous outcryes against me some Divines of great note and worth in the Church of England came to me one by one and no one knowing of the others coming as to me they protested and perswaded with me to reprint this Conference in my owne Name This they thought would vindicate my Reputation were it generally known to be mine P. What libellous outcryes my Lord Of Scandalous and Scurrilous pennes If Scurrilous I approve not If Scandalous is not that in your sense onely because against you But the Authours names were to the Bookes which they avowed to be theirs How then libellous And Master BURTON in speciall offered to the full Court at his Censure to prove all his Book to be true And how then Scandalous And if just reproofe of Iniquity and Enormities and that by a Minister of GOD in his own Charge be Censured for Scandalous then how shall the writings of the Apostles and Prophets and the words of Christs owne mouth escape this Censure of being Scandalous For Master BURTON was a Minister of CHRIST which under the Gospell is called a Prophet whose Office is to convince and reproove sinne But he named your Lordship and some other of your Brethren in his Book True And what of that Doe you make this to be Scandalum Magnatum Then what say you to the Prophet Elias telling King Ahab to his face Thou art hee that troubleth Israel And in his writing to King Iehoram hee told him his owne which hee shortly after found too true So the Prophet Elisha when hee spake to the Elders of Israel and
Do I not mistake Foundations of Faith instead of Superstition and Profanenesse For Them here may have for Antecedent aswell Superstition and Profanenesse as Foundations of Faith And so the sense runnes thus He that puts not to his hand as firmly as he can to surport them that is Superstition and Profanesse is too wary c. And now that I consider it better this must be your meaning if your words and deeds agree And for proofe let us come to particulars You give us two generall instances whereby the Foundations of Faith are shaken The one Superstition the other Profanesse Answerable to these two I will help you out with two particular instances the one of Superstion the other of Profanesse by both which the Foundations of Faith are shaken which we shall see how firmely you Support First For Superstition I instance in Altars These you erect these you bow unto Now to set up and bow unto or before or pray towards an Altar of wood or stone overthowes Christ the Prime and maine Foundation of Faith and that by your owne Confession For Altars in the Old Testament were ordained of GOD to be Types and Figures of Christ as also were the Sacrifices and the Priests But now Christ being come our onely Sacrifice our onely High Priest and our onely Altar those Types doe all cease And in the New Testament as Christ is called our Sacrifice and High Priest So also our Altar We have an Altar saith the Apostle whereof they have no right to eate which serve the Tabernacle Why so For the Levites or Priests which still served the Tabernacle rested still in the Typicall Altar denying Christ to be come and so they have no right to Christ the true Altar he being come and having abolished all Types And the Apostle there doth clearely prove this our Altar to be Christ. For saith he in the very next words as a reason annexed The bodies of those Beasts whose blood is brought into the Sanctuary by the High Priest for sinne are burnt without the Campe Wherefore Iesus also that he might Sanctifie the people with his own blood suffered without the Gate Let us goe forth therefore unto him without the Campe bearing his reproach For here we have no continuing City but we seeke one to come By him therefore let us offer the Sacrifice of praise to God continually that is the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name In which words taken together Christ is set forth unto us both as our onely Altar and as our onely High Priest and as our onely Sacifice First as our onely Altar vers 10. Secondly as our onely High Priest For so he stands in relation to the Leviticall Priesthood as the Truth to the Type v. 11 12. Thirdly as our onely Sacrifice in offering his owne blood v. 11. And thus he is said to Sanctifie us And this sanctifying hath speciall relation to Christ as the onely Altar For in the Law no Sacrifice or Offering was sanctified but by the Altar being offered up upon it As Christ saith to the Scribes and Pharisees those blind guides Ye Fooles and blind whether is greater the gift or the Altar that sanctifieth the gift Thus every gift every Sacrifice is sanctified by the Altar on which it was offered up This Altar is onely Christ whose blood being offered up upon the Altar of his Divinity Person or Nature was thereby sanctified and accepted of GOD for an All-sufficient Sacrifice for our sinnes And thus both the persons of all true beleevers and their Spirituall Sacrifices are Sanctified being offered up and presented to GOD on the Altar Christ. Our Persons as Heb. 13.12 and our gifts or Sacrifices v. 15. By him therefore let us offer the Sacrifice of praise continually that is the fruit of our lippes giving thanks to his Name Thus through Faith in Christs Name all our Sacrifices of Prayer of Praise of Almes and of a Contrite heart are Sanctified and accepted of GOD as Testimonies of our Faith Charity Repentance Thankfullnesse and Obedience as being offered up upon our onely Altar Christ. This onely Altar it is that Sanctifieth the gift Thus we see how these three Altar Priest Sacrifice are equally and inseparably resident in Christ. So as he is as well our onely Altar as our onely High Priest and our onely Sacrifice of expiation And Bellarmine himselfe confesseth that these three Altar Priest Sacrifice are Relatives and alwayes goe together Hee therefore that sets up another Altar besides Christ may as well set up another High Priest and another propitiatory Sacrifice as Antichrist doth in the Masse And to set up any one of these not onely shakes but quite overthrowes the maine Foundation Christ. And for the Altar the Sanctification of all Sacrifices and offerings is so proper and peculiar unto it that one of your Divines going about to maintaine your Christian Altars as he calls them but indeed Antichristian saith expresly that of necessity there must be an Altar in every Church as of wood or stone to Sanctifie the Sacrifice otherwise it should be altogether unsanctified And how comes this Altar of his and yours to have such a treasure and overplus of holinesse in it as to communicate such holinesse to the Sacrifice yea to the Sacrifice of Christs body upon it as he puts it but by the Bishops Consecration of it as the same Author saith whose Book is by your Chapleins license published in Print So as it seems your Episcopall consecration of the Altar infuseth a holinesse into it and the Altar communicates and imparts its holinesse to the Sanctifying even of the Sacrifice of Christs body it selfe which you would not have to be farre off from the Altar But now it being most evident hereby that your Altars doe quite overthrow the Foundation Christ who is our onely Altar how firmely you put to your hand to support this Foundation I call heaven and earth to witnesse against you who being on the contrary a Supporter of Altars and so a Supplanter of the onely true Altar Iesus Christ you give sentence against your selfe as one that is too wary and hath more care of himselfe then of the Cause of Christ. And forasmuch as you are so zealous in promoting your Altars in every Church I do here in the Name of Iesus Christ protest against you as a most notorious Adversary of Christ and so an Antichrist a setter up of Judaisme or Heathenisme in your Altars and I doe utterly renounce all communion with you in your services the principall part whereof you place in your Altars which are so many damnable Idols which you adoring are damnable Idolaters and which are set up and upholden to the intolerable reproach of Christ and whereby he is altogether denyed and renounced And thus you give just cause to all true Christians to seperate themselves from your communion in your worship of a false Christ as your false Altar if they will hold
curse them yet can you not doe as that wicked Prophet did in Counselling King Balack to put a stumbling block before the Children of Israel by inticing them to his Idols with his faire Damosels You can tell us that the Church of England and of Rome are one and the Same Church and that her worship of Images is but a trenching or coming neare Idolatry as at after so as none need fear communion with her so he be but ignorant of her Corruptions Of which more hereafter But though you cannot prophesie what is all your practise but a cleare Prognostication and that not onely foretelling but causing and haling in a Deluge of Atheisme and Irreligion flowing in upon you Yea witnesse this your Book which could not spring but from the root of Atheisme and Sourse of all Irreligion and which doth not onely prognosticate nor onely teach the way how Atheisme and Irreligion may gather strength but doth certainly presage and that by necessary consequence most terrible Judgements and Calamities to fall upon the Church of England I would say rather upon the Hierarchy of England and which you doe with both hands in writing and publishing this Book and by all other your practises pull upon your own heads But this your feare of Atheisme and Irreligion to gather strength is say you while the Truth is weakened by an unworthy way of contending What Truth Or what is that unworthy way of contending for the Truth Or what is your Atheisme and Irreligion For all these termes need your interpretation But your prudent modestly therein we will make bold as well as we can to Supply First for Truth it is much in your mouth I meane the name and word Truth But when you name Truth you alwayes mean Falshood as when you Speake of the Church you meane such a Church as is a false Church and when you Speake of Peace you meane such as is a false Peace when your Reconciliation with Rome is a Conspiracie against Christ and his true Church and when you name Priest you meane such as is a false Priest and when you name Devotion you meane such as is a false Devotion of humane devising and when you name Faith as the gift of God you meane not the true Saving Faith whereof the Apostle speakes where he Saith Faith is the gift of God As we shall see at after So as ever under the green leaves of such faire words as Truth Peace Church Devotion Faith c. we may ever Suspect and shal be ever sure to find a false Serpentine Sense to lurke Secondly your unworthy way of contending for the Truth what is it but that which the Apostle exhorts unto that Christians should earnestly contend for the Faith given to the Saints and Paul that we should sunathlein wrastle together as for Mastery or for a Crown for the Faith of the Gospell Now is not this that which you call an unworthy way of contending for the Truth No doubt of thâ—â— As to write Books or preach Sermons proving the Pope to be Antichrist and the Church of Rome to be a false Church or no Church of Christ and no Salvation to be hoped for in that Church and that all true Christians ought to have no Communion with that Church but to abhorre and abandon her as the Lord commandeth and that Prelates are not Jure divino but are Antichristian and their Hierarchy Tyrannicall and that Altars in Churches are a denying of Christ the Onely Altar and that all Ceremonies invented and imposed by men in the Service of God is a will-worship condemned by Christ and his Apostles and many such like This is that unworthy way of contending whereby you say the Truth is weakened No marvaile Thirdly what is that Atheisme and Irreligion which you feare will gather Strength while the Truth is weakened by such an unworthy way of contending This I take it may be taken two wayes Either that by Atheisme you meane the true Faith of Christ which is opposite to the Romish faith wherewith you hold such correspondence for whatsoever is contrary to Romes faith or which is all one your faith is with you branded for Atheisme Or Secondly Atheisme truely and properly taken gathers strength by such an unworthy way of labouring a Reconciliation between the Church of England and the Church of Rome which to make way for you are glad to say that these two Churches are for substance one and the Same Church Now before your time the Church of England though in many things it symbolized with Rome as hath been shewed yet still it renounced all communion with her as being a Strumpet and that great Whore whose Husband is the great Antichrist But now you have so turned the Cat in the pan by making way to bring the Church of England back againe to an union and communion with Rome that you put the people to a stand to a nonplus so as they know not what to beleeve or what to think but are ready to cast off all further thought of God as if there were no God because they see those to flourish and to goe on unpunished who overthrow the faith formerly professed in England seting up the Romish faith againe where it had been cast out and on the other side Preaching and Preachers to be put down and the true Professors to be persecuted and thrown out of all and forced to quit their native Countrey and the like Now where all this is do you but feare that Atheisme gathers Strength Nay is not the root of all your cruely in persecuting Christs Ministers and People meere Atheisme It is noted of the Sadduces that of all other Sects they were the most cruell in their judiciall Censures As Euseb. Eccl. Hist. l. 2. c. 14. out of Iosephus And no marvaile They denyed the Resurrection and the Last Iudgement So as they were Atheists This made them dare to practise all cruelty and injustice For Maxima peccandi illaecebra impunitatis Spes So how durst you be so unjust and cruell in your oppressions and persecutions did you certainly beleeve that there is a Resurrection and Last Judgement wherein you shall be Judged But this by the way 't is an Item And Irreligion also what 's that That 's soon resolved to wit Obstinacie in not admitting of Altars in some Churches Irreveverence in not bowing to Altars and worshiping towards the East and adoring the name Iesus and the like This is with you Irreligion because your whole Religion is placed in these things For so you tell us in the words following L. p. 19. The externall worship of God in his Church is the GREAT WITNESSE to the world that our hearts stand right in the Service of God Take this away or bring it into contempt and what light is there left to shine before men that they may see our Devotion and glorifie our Father which is in heaven P. Surely were it not
your whole Discourse So as I may see my Doom already set down in black and white that I must be Censured as one too busie or AllotroepÃoskopos playing the Bishop in anothers Diocese in our English Translation a busy body But I must beare it off with Head and Shoulders And as the Proverbe is Over Shooes over Bootes I have already waded through the Fords of your Dedicatory and now I must launch into the Deep of your Discourse And there 's now no returning Nor have I put my hand to the Plough to turn up your weeds by the roots to look backe or desist for feare to be censured as one too busie Yea all my businesse is about particulars and namely such as summed up together in the totall conclude you to be though not a profest Invader yet a most subtile and pragmaticall Enginer and underminer of that Truth of Christ in the Scripture which yet the Gates of Hell shall never prevaile against L. p. 4. Bellarmine of very great ability to make good any truth which he undertakes for the Church of Rome P. What one thing I pray which Bellarmine undertakes to make good for the Church of Rome as the Church of Rome is a truth I say as the Church of Rome For what he undertakes to make good for the Church of Rome properly must needs be some point of Popery or Popish Doctrine Otherwise he undertakes not to make it good as for the Church of Rome Now the Church of Rome as it is the Church of Rome namely the Papall Church holds not any one Saving Truth I say againe it holds not any one Saving Truth I shall prove this more particularly at after Yet you seem to intimate here that either all or most things so undertaken by him are truth But the contrary will appeare So as what things are in themselves false and erronious can by no humane ability either of that Champion of Rome Bellarmine or of the great Champion of the present Church of England be so made good as to deserve the name of Truth L. ibid. After Bellarmine hath distinguished â—o expresse his Meaning in what sence the particular Church of Rome cannot Erre in things which are de Fide of the Faith he tells us this Firmitude is because the Sea Apostolicke is fixed there And this he saith is most true P. Your last words here are somewhat darke whether we should take them for Bellarmines words he saith or for your owne assent therein And this he saith is most true This Later is the Likelier And then againe here is another doubt whether And this he saith is very true it be referred to the whole Sentence going before and alledged by you or onely to the Last Clause If to the whole Sentence then in Saying And this he saith is most true you assent that Romes infallibility consists in the Firmitude of the Sea Apostolicke fixed there Which you seem afterwards more expresly to contradict But if onely to the Last Clause your Speech hath reference And this he saith is most true then first you should have expressed it more Clearely and punctually as in some things you doe But taking it in the best sense you confesse it is most true that the Sea Apostolicke is fixed there thus you give occasion of Dispute about Peters being at Rome and of his being Bishop of Rome and if so whether consequently Rome be yet the Sea Apostolicke But because your words here are not Cleare enough and at after you declare your selfe herein more plainly what we have to say of this we will reserve to a fitter place L. p. 23. I shall ever be glad that the Church of England may have farre more able Defendants then my selfe P. Certainly the Church of England her selfe may be glad hereof to vindicate her Reputation which you by this your Defence have layd flat in the dust But May have seems to import that now she hath not at least now that Dr. White is dead Nor hath the Church of England any great cause to glory in either of you both as Defendants unlesse by the Church of England you understand that new Start-up Faction of Arminianized and Iesuited Atheists whose Standard-beares you have been and are to bring the whole Land backe againe to Rome and so to make a full League and Confederacie against the true Church of Iesus Christ. L. p. 29. Things not Fundamentall yet to some mens Salvation are neâ—essary P. How prove you this Seeing what is necessary to some mens Salvation is necessary to all and every mans Salvation And Fundamentalls onely to wit Such things as are de Fide of Faith are the onely things necessary to every mans Salvation According to the Athanasius his Creed Whosoever will be Saved it is necessary that he hold the Catholicke Faith which Faith unlesse a man keep whole and undefiled without doubt he shall perish everlastingly For the Catholicke Faith comprehends all Fundamentalls which to violate in any one particular overthrowes the Faith and cuts a man off from Salvation But your adding of other things besides and unto the Fundamentalls as necessary to Some mens Salvation doth necessarily inferre this Consequence that there be other things besides Christ which are necessary to Some mens Salvation And so you make Christ an insufficient Saviour to some men at least as to whose Salvation things not Fundamentall are necessary For things not Fundamentall are extra Christum out of or without Christ. Whereas the Scripture Saith of CHRIST That there is no Salvation in any other for there is none other name under heaven given whereby Dei sothenai emas we Must be Saved which words doe plainly evince that besides Christ nothing under heaven is necessary to any mans Salvation But give us some one particular instance of such things as being not fundamentall yet are necessary to some mens Salvation You tell us of certain I wot not what Deductions from the Articles of Faith which you make to be your Not-Fundamentall and yet necessary to some mens Salvation but for our better Information you particularize in nothing neither in the things nor in the persons for whose Salvation they are necessary but leave all in the Cloudes the fittest manâ—le to foldâ—up such foule and blind errours in L. p. 31. The Churches Declaration can bind us to peace and externall obedience where there is no expresse Letter of Scripture and Sense agreed upon P. By the Latitude of this Sentence you or your Church of England may as you have done by your Declaration prefixed to your Articles of Religion as before bind Ministers not to preach of those Doctrines of Grace as Election Predestination c. because though there be expresse Letter of Scripture for them yet the Sense is so farre from being agreed upon by your present Church as that you Say plainly they may be taken in two opposite Senses So as upon this your Churches Declaration of the ambiguities of your Articles you
one of these either expresse word of God or evident consequence â—ut of it And a little before Every wrangling Disputer may neither deny nor doubtfully dispute much lesse obstinately oppose the Determinations of the Church no not when they are Dogmata deposita Deposed Principles P. Now all these Passages weighed together do clearely and distinctly resolve themselves into these Conclusions 1. That the Church may decide and determine some things without any evidence or so much as a probable Testimony of holy Writ and herein you consent and jumpe fully with that notorious Papist and adversary of the once Church of England Stapleton whom the learned Dr. Whitakers publickly confuted in the Divinity Schooles in Cambridge as his Works can yet testifie And yet behold now the Church of England hath got a Champion in the Chaire of Canterbury who pleads for and applauds that in Stapleton which Dr. Whitakers and many other learned Divines in England formerly have refuted And for further Confirmation hereof you tax Bellarmine as of untruth where he confesses that nothing may be certaine by certâ—inty of Faith unlesse it be contained immediately in the word of God or be deduced thence by evident consequence Whereupon you inferre that if nothing can be certaine then certainly no Determination of the Church it selfe wanting expresse word or evident Consequence out of it Thus you condemne Bellarmines true Saying if by the Word of God he understand the Scriptum alone and not his word unwritten and approve and preferre Stapletons false and hereticall sentence before it Secondly That things so decided and determined by the Church without either evident or so much as probable Testimony of holy writ yet are so de fide so firmely to be beleeved as every wrangling Disputer may neither deny nor doubtfully dispute much lesse obstinately oppose Consonant hereunto you â—ay at after pag. 224. The Determination of a Generall Councel â—â—ring is to stand in force and to have externall obedience at least yeelded to it till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration to the Contrary make the errour appeare and untill thereupon another Councel of equall Authority do reverse it And so also pag. 226. c. Where here I mention for clearer proofe of what you say here but not to anticipate or prevent our fuller Answere when we come to those places where we shall supply our brevity here L. p. 40. I hope A. C. will not tells us there 's any Tradition extant unwritten by which particular men may have assurance of their Severall Salvations P. But what think you of it Will you tell us there is no such thing written in the Scripture That true Beleevers may have assurance of their owne Salvation But if there be why doe you forbid Preachers to meddle with it considering the true and solid comfort which it bringeth to him that hath it As the 17 th Article confesseth might it be suffered to speake out and had you not put a gagge in the mouth of it L. p. 43. Mine is That the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God and infallible is an equall or rather a preceding prime Principle of Faith wâ—th or rather to the whole body of the Creed P. How The Belief of Scripture to be Gods word and infallible no more but an equall or rather a preceding prime Principle of Faith with or rather to the whole body of the Creed This is yours you say your Saying And I beleeve it to be yours For it is as like to one of your Sayings as may be For here you attribute no more credit to the Scriptures then to the Creed both equall onely differing perhaps in point of some precedencie of time or So with an or rather equall or rather preceding the difference not great if any Thus doe you not equall a Church Tradition with the Divine Scripture For we have it by Tradition that the Apostles compiled the Creed and each his Severall Article And is this or any other Tradition of equall Credit with Scripture And is not the Scripture the Rule whereby the Articles of the Creed are to be interpreted which are no otherwise to be beleeved but as they are agreeable to the Scripture So as for the Purpose if you goe no further for the Sense of the Article of Christs Descent into hell then the very Letter of the Article you can make no Sense of it nor give any reason for it And how then can you give a reason of your Faith in this particular Except you do beleeve it because you do beleeve it and because the words are He Descended into Hell But of this more by and by L. p. 44. Some Traditions I deny not c. to be Apostolicall but yet not fundamentall in the Faith P. You might do well to point out unto us which be those your Apostolicall Traditions that we may distinguish them from those Traditions which Rome calls Apostolicall Or rather perhaps you admit of all those as Apostolicall indeed but yet not Fundamentall Surely if you can prove them to be truely Apostolicall namely that the Apostles delivered them immediately to the Church by word of mouth why are they not fundamentall in the faith Why are not all bound to beleeve them or give as much Credit to them as to the Articles of your Creed which you Say are fundamentall in the faith L. p. 45. The Church of England taketh the words He descended into hell as they are in the Creed and beleeves them without further Dispute and in that Sense which the ancient Primitive Fathers of the Church agreed in P. Here a Question may be moved 1. In generall Whether a man taking up a matter upon such trust as he gives equall beliefe unto it as to the Scriptures themselves doe not therein Sinne damnably As making that a fundamentall ground of his Faith which is not found to be in the Scripture Secondly in particular Whether a man resting in the very Letter of the Article He descended into Hell beleeving thâ—reupon as surely as he beleeves that God is in Heaven that Christs Soule did locally descend into Hell among the damned there having no regard at all to what the Scripture Saith of it whether the Scripture Say any such thing or no doe not hereby make way for his owne Descent into Hell Or thirdly Whteher you do as verily and firmly beleeve Christs Descent into Hell as you doe his Ascent into Heaven Seeing the Scriptures Speakes clearely and expresly of this but not so of that and whether you are aâ— much bound to beleeve his Descent into Hell because you find such words in the Creed as his Ascent into Heaven because you find it in the Scripture Now for Answere to all these together I conceive that to make any thing of the necessity of Faith to Salvation besides what is found in the Scripture is Sinne and in particular to beleeve that because it is Said in the Creed He Descended into Hell therefore Christ
you a reason of my Faith Can you give one reason of yours concerning this Article as you take and beleeve it with your Church of England Show but one reason or shadow of a reason out of Scripture Nay except you bring every Article of the Creed to the examen or tryall of Scripture for the staying and establishing of your Faith you may run into many monstrous errours What doe you beleeve concerning Christs death You beleeve that hee dyed But for whom Whether for the Elect onely in Gods Purpose Account Appointment Acceptance or universally for all men Elect and Reprobate I tell you my Lord if you beleeve that Christ dyed for all men universally as well for the Reprobate as the Elect you destroy both Gods Grace in giving Christ for his people onely the Elect and also the merit and effâ—icacy of Christs death The Scripture shewes these things aboundantly But I mention this onely by the way Againe What doe you beleeve concerning the holy Catholicke Church You beleeve I dare say and you doe say it that the Catholicke Church on earth consists visibly of all Prelates and those that are subject unto them as one intire Body This is your Faith But if you examine this by the Scripture you will find it to be an Errour no lesse soule then false as hath been shewed So doe you not beleeve the Article of the Communion of Saints You doe But who are your Saints on earth You will hardly allow any Saints on earth till after their death they be Canonized by his Holinesse at Rome Nay in plaine termes you persecute both the Saints themselves and their Communion Can you indure such as but professe holinesse And for their Communion doe you not hunt out and persecute Private Fasting and Prayer among the poore soules of Christ when publick they can have none and no other remedy or weapons are left them to defend themselves withall against your bloody Cruelty So as the truth is you neither rightly beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church nor the Communion of Saints but are a notorious both denyeâ— and persecuter of both And therefore we see what a necessity there is that we should bring the Articles of the Creed to the Standard Rule the Scripture both as the surest and safest way yea and the onely way to preserve our Faith from Errour But you object the Fathers for the Sense of this Article of Christs Descent into hell as you beleeve it What if they beleeved so Is their example a sufficient Rule for us We must examine their sense they held of it by the Scripture If it be not according to the Scripture we reject it The Fathers might for a time hold an erronious generally received opinion before it came to be controverted and well sifted and examined by Scripture But they were ever ready to have their faith and opinions tryed by the Scriptures All the ancient Fathers were of this mind and spirit As before Pelagius his time the Fathers spake too liberally of Mans Free-will which after upon his Heresie they reformed and by Scripture abundantly confuted the Pelagians and especially Augustine Ierome Prosper Fulgentius Hilarius and others And Augustine inticing a Donatist to dispute about that Heresie Saith unto him Ratione agamus divinarum Scripturarum authoritate agamus Let us dispute the matter by Argument let us be guided by the Authority of the Divine Scriptures Not what I and thou Say but what Christ Saith And this was the Spirit I say and practise of all the Fathers in such cases So as if this Article of of Christs descent into hell had been by occasion of controversie about it well searched into and examined by the Scripture no doubt but the Fathers would therein have regulated their Faith according to the truth of Scripture But the Church of England say you holds and beleeves that Article as you doe No marvaile when you doe And should you hold otherwise must it not doe so too And yet we have but your bare word for it But you will alledge your Article That Christ went downe into hell But we must examine your Article by the Scripture And it is not the sound of your Article but the sense and that it agreeth with Scripture But we have shewed that no such thing is in Scripture And you tell us withall what Mr. Rogers upon the Articles saith of this That then Then I say in diebus illis the Church of England was not resolved of this Article and he was then the Arch-bishop of Canterbury his Chaplein your Predecessor Richard Bancroft But now your Lordships bare word is enough to Sway the Ballance which before stood but in aequilibrio in an even peize not resolved but now resolved But this I can tell you what ever your Church of England now beleeves there is and I hope a good sound Church of Christ yet in England that beleeves the Creed and all the Articles thereof and this in particular no otherwise then they find them agreeable to the Scripture and the Analogy of Faith And this is agreeable to that which once a Prelâ—te of England said By the generall confâ—ssion of all Antiquity Traditions must he warranted by the Scriptures or els we must reject them And Isidore saith A Prelate if he teach or command any thing besides that which is evidently cammanded in the holy Scriptures let him be taken for a false witnâ—ssie to God and a committer of Sacriledge But looking a little further I find you confessing That the Church of England hath not determined as yet either way by open Declaration upon this Article No hath she not How then doe you affirme and would perswade us that you beleeve with the Church of England that Christ descended into hell without any further Dispute We hope therefore it will not be long before your Declaration come forth with a Definitive Sentence determining the sense of this Article one way or other And the rather because in the late Declaration before the Articles wherein this Article of Christs going down into hell is particularly set downe for one they are declared to be of ambiguous sense and yet men must hold to the letter of the Article So as by that Declaration we are lesse resolved of the Articles then before A new Declaration therefore we would faine see which is cleare Declarative and Determinative and therein tell us whether Christs Soule descended into Hell the place of the damned or into Purgatory the Suburbs of hell and whether Locally and for what end and purpose because the Scripture is altogether silent in this whole mystery and whether you find hell to be in the Center of the Earth or no because your Article saith He went down into hell c. But in the mean time I have for my part ingenuously given you a reason of my Faith touching this Article which I am so resolved on by the Scripture that whatsoever Declaration you or your Church of England
tâ—e Rule and Foundation of our Faith but what we find written in the holy Scriptures This is that word of God which is authenticall of Authority to his Church and therefore Authority to us because written So as your unwritten word whereiâ— you agree with Bellarmine and your Apostolicke Traditions wherin you come home to your A. C. the Jesuite we receive none of them all as authentick or to have any thing to doe to expound the Scripture in any doubt about the Faith But if you can shew us any Traditions Apostolick we will by your leave examine them by the Scriptures and not the Scriptures by them You name baptizing of Infants for a Tradition Apostolicke We doubt not but the Apostles baptized the Infants of beleeving Parents For the Infants or Children of such are holy as the Apostle sheweth And so they belonged to the Covenant And as the Children of the Jewes in the old Testament were circumcised as pertaining to the Covenant and promise made to Abraham and to his Seed So Baptisme succeding in place of Circumcision as a Seale of the Same Covenant belongs to all Children of beleeving Christian Parents As the Apostle saith Therefore it is of Faith that it might come by Grace and the Promise might be sure to all the Seed not to that onely which is of the Law but to that also which is of the Faith of Abrahâ—m who is the Father of us all So as beleeving Christians have the same interest in the Covenant with Abraham and their Children or Infants have the like priviledge of Baptisme as the Infants of the ancient Israelites had for Circumcision Therefore the Baptizing of Infants was certainly practised by the Apostles as well as the baptising of beleeving Parents So as we doe not baptize Infants because you tell us it is a Tradition Apostolicke but because it is as clearely and firmely grounded in the Scripture as the baptizing of beleeving Parents We exclude therefore whatsoever Word unwritten or Traditions Apostolicke as you call them as being either partiall or equall Rules of Faith with the Scriptures as Bellarmine calls them or as Interpreters and Iudges of the Scripture in doubts about Faith as you are bold to affirme We have no word of God but the Scripture we acknowledge no Traditions Apostolicke but what we find they delivered in Scripture The Prophets in the old Testament sent Gods people to the Scripture for information instruction resolution in all matters of Faith and Cases of Conscience To the Law and to the Testimony Saith Isaiah if they Speake not according to this word it is because there is no light in them He Saith not To the Traditions of our Fathers but To the Law and to the Testimony Gods word written Els there is no light in men they are blind guides that in matters of Faith lead us any where but to and by the Scriptures And the Prophet Ieremiah They have rejected the word of the Lord and what wisedome is in them All wisdome without this word of God is foolishnesse all knowledge without this is ignorance and blindnesse So our Saviour Christ Search the Scriptures for in them ye thinke to find eternall life and they are they which testifie of me So as Christ allowes us no other Testimony of him and of Faith in him but the Scriptures We must erunan Search them not the Archives or Sacraries of blind Traditions though guilded over never so faire with the name of Apostolick nor of any pretended word of God unwritten And Christ answereth the Lawyer when he asked what he should doe to inherit Eternall life What is written in the Law How readest thou And the Apostle That none presume above that which is written And Whatsoever things were written afore time were written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope And Peter We have a more sure word of Prophecy to wit the Scriptures of the old Testament whereunto ye doe well that ye take heed In all which places and many more the Scripture is still commended to us as the onely absolute sufficient perfect and compleat Rule of our Faith in all matters or doubts of Faith touching our Salvation So as it hath no other interpreter but it selfe not any Tradition not any word unwritten But of this you will give us occasion to speak more at after L. p. 72 73. Faith is the gift of God of God alone and an Infused habit in respect whereof the soule is meerely recipient The Sole Infuser is the Holy Ghost Till the Spirit of God move the heart of man he cannot beleeve P. I confesse when first I read these words I began to muse with my selfe and to argue thus What is my Lord of Canterbury turn'd Orthodox no Arminian in the Doctrine of Grace But looking a little further and observing both the Authors you alledge as Stapleton a great man with you and other Popish Authors as is usuall with you throughout your Book and also considering of what Faith you here Speak I changed my conceit and found that you were no Changeling For wheras I thought that all this faire â—â—ourish of Faith is the gift of God of God alone A habit infused The Holy Ghost the Sole Infuser The soule meerely recipient Till Gods Spirit move mans heart he cannot beleeve had been meant of that Grace of Saving and Iustifying Faith which the Scripture teacheth and particularly the Apostle Ephes. 2.8 By Grace ye are saved through Faith and not of your selves it is the Gift of God c. I imagined I say that as you used the Apostles very words and the Language of Scripture so you had done it in the sense and mind of the Apostle and of the Scripture which Speaks so of the Saving and Iustifying Faith But when I found the contrary I confesse I blushed at my folly in having such a conceit of you having had so much experience both of your usuall perverting of Scriptures and your corrupt sense throughout your Book and considering that light and darknesse cannot stand together and how you hâ—ve altogether suppressed the Preaching of the Doctrines of Grace and finding that all this Faith you Speake of is nothing els but that historicall Faith in beleeving the Scriptures to be the word of God which beliefe is common to the very Reprobates and Devils themselves who beleeve and tremble Phristouâ—i they quiver and Shake as when mens teeth Chatter in their head in extreme cold And yet how doe you abuse the Scripture and your Reader in giving to this Faith those peculiar Attributes which are proper and peculiar to the onely Saving Grace of Saving Faith the Sole Infuser Giver and worker whereof is the Holy Ghost Tell me how come the Devils to that historicall faith whereby they beleeve the Scripture to be the very word of God and all things therein to be most certainly true and so all
the well-beeing of a Christian. A true Christians life is full of affliction more then other men For this he hath the greatest need of comfort Now wherein hath a Christian most solid comfort Surely in the Scriptures David a man of afflictions can tell us this by his own experience Remember Lord Saith he the word unto thy Servant wherein thou hast caused me to hope This is my Comfort in my affliction for thy word hath quickned me And v. 52. I remembred thy judgements of old ô Lord and have comforted my selfe And v. 54. Thy Statutes have been my Songs in the house of my pilgrimage Gods word is that which supports Faith in prayer to God in affliction As v. 76. Let I pray thee thy mercifull kindnesse be for my coâ—fort according to thy word unto thy Servant And v. 80. Let my heart be sound in thy Statutes that I be not ashamed And v. 92. Except thy Law had been my delights I should then have perished in my Affliction And that excellent Psalme which Aug. so much admires and not without cause calling it Magnificum Psalmum it is his own word is full of such meditations and consolations grounded upon Gods word And the Apostle also sheweth this where he saith Whaâ—soever things are written aforetime were written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope Now how could a Christian in affliction comfort himselfe in the Scriptures had he not a full demonstrative knowledge by Faith that the Scripture is Gods word and therefore all his promises therein are most true and in Christ yea and Amen I say a full demonstrative knowledge by Faith which is ' élenkos the demonstration of things not seen as before Not that this full demonstrative knowlâ—dge in â—aith hath in it the full perfection of Degrees which is not attained in this life but it is such a full demonstrative knowledge such a sure trust and confidence in God according to his word such a hope in his Promises in Christ that although his â—aith be sometimes assaulted with temptations of feares and doubtings arising either from infirmities and corruptions within or from Satans suggestions without yet the beleever sticks closse and will not let go his hold but as Iob saith though God kill him yet will he trust in him Then then being so your assertion is very bold and blasphemous in saying God in his Providence hath kindled in the Scripture no light for that namely full demonstrative knowledge wherof we have made sufficient demonstration to the contrary And your own next words will confute you for you say He requires our faith of it and such a certain demonstration as may fit that Doth he so And what is that faith but wherin there is such a certain and demonstrative knowledge as gives a man full assurance that the Scripture is the word of God And this is that faith which God especially râ—quireth in hiâ— people as without which they cannot beleeve unto righteousnes and confesse unto Salvation But this is not that faith with its certain demonstration which you mean For as you adde yours is such a faith as is begotten of Reason and ordinary Grace which is ever the burthen of your Song where the soule is morally prepared by the Tradition of the Church Of which enough before Neither can your morall faith probably perswaded by your Tradition ever become to be élegkos a demonstrative assurance that Scripture is Gods word So as hereby you overthrow both the beeing and well-beeing of a Christian and leave him stript of all means and hope of Salvation and consolation by the Scripture L. p. 88. Hooker gives a very sensible Demonstration It is not the word of God which doth or possibly can assure us that we doe well to think it is his word For if any one Book of Scripture did give testimony to it yet still the Scripture would require another to give credit unto it So that unlesse beside the Scripture there were some thing that might assure c. And this he acknowledgeth saith Buerly is the Authority of Gods Church Certainly Hooker gives a true and sensible Demonstration P. First for your Author here alledged he was we all know not onely a Creature but a Champion for your Hierarchy and Ceremonies And besides that his Book was guelt in some things before it could have its passeport to travaile abroad However as you say of Others so I of him he was but a private man And if you take his words to be the Doctrine of the Church of England you may seeing the Jesuite doth so approve of it as also your selfe doth Well let Hookers words be so as you alledge them yet give me leave to detect in them a mixture of some absurdity and some impiety together As in these words It is not the word which doth or possibly can assure us that we doe well to think it is his word And so in that sense which is the onely sense a sensible man and sound Christian can make 't is true that the Scripture neither doth nor possibly can assure us that we do well to think onely it is his word For as the Scripture cannot lye so it cannot assure us that we do well when we come short of our duty as in thinking which is but opinion when we should beleeve which is Faith For the Scripture requires a firme Faith in us and approveth not of thinking as sufficient But now for his sensible Demonstration which is this That if any one book of Scripture did give testimony to all yet still the Scripture would require another to give testimony to it and so we can never come to assurance this way I answere The Scripture is a compleat body in it selfe and every part of it an uniforme and homogeneall member to the making up of this body So as the Scripture is to be taken first in the whole lumpe or body as bearing full witnesse to it selfe and every part or Book of Scripture hath a witnesse in it selfe and for it selfe and for the rest too there being such a sweet and full harmony in the whole and all the parts Gods Spirit speaking and breathing in it as the Animall Spirits in mans body moving the whole and every part and shewing that it is Gods word And we must never in this notion fever the Spirit of God from the Scripture his owne word which it filleth in every part as the life-blood doth the veines So as there is not a Book of Scripture wherein the Majesty of GOD and his Wisdome and Goodnesse and Righteousnesse and Holinesse doe not in some degree more or lesse shine forth And Mr Hooker might as well have reasoned thus It is not the whole frame of mans body that can perswade us that we doe well to thinke that it is a mans body for though one member by its motion doth beare witnesse to the rest that they are
Preachings by word of mouth of the Lawfully sent Pastors and Doctors of the Church are able to breed in us Divine and Infallible Faith Nay are the very word of God So A. C. expresly And no lesse then so have some accounted of their owne Factious words to Say no more then as the word of God †in the margent at this marke For the freeing of Factious and Silenced Ministers is termed The restoring of Gods word to its Liberty In the Godly Author of the Late Newes from Ipswitch p. 5. P. That the Sermons and Preachings by word of mouth of the Lawfully sent Pastors and Doctors of the Church are able to breed in men Divine and Infallible Faith being according to the Rule and Evidence of Scripture as true Preaching is what good Christian makes a doubt though you deride it I pray you you that are the great Rabbi and Champion of the present Church of England What Say you of the Apostles words How shall they call on him in whom they have not beleeved And how shall they beleeve in him of whom they have not heard And how shall they heare without a Preacher And how shall they Preach except they be Sent So then Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God But we shall heare your judgement by and by As for A. C. with whom you yoak the precise party in the same sentence surely were he no Jesuite nor illegitimate Priest but either a Sound Christian or a Lawfully sent Pastor and Doctor of the Church of Christ the words rightly meant and understood are most true I remember I have read a Story of a Grecian State I take it of Athens where when a vitious Senator in Court on a time gave very good Counsell for the Common-Weale they approved of the Counsell but would not have it Registred in his name but caused an honest man to utter the same forme of words in Court and so under his name it was recorded So I may here Let a good Christian or if you will one of the precise party you mention utter these words and not A. C. and then the sense wil be good and true And by your own words we shall convince you of folly by and by Now for the precise party in the Reformed Churches doe you not meane those who are most reformed in their life and conversation and most refined from the drosse and dregges of all Deformed Churches Superstitions and Idolatries in the pretended worship of God and from all grosse errours in Faith and Doctrine Surely those you must and do meane as whom you most deadly hate and therefore in your wretched malice do couple them with A. C. Of which precise party Iesus Christ is the head that pure and precise Nazarite and Seperatist from all sin and errour with all the Apostles Prophets and Martyrs And what do they say No lesse say you then A. C And what faith A.C. Expresly that Sermons c. as before are the expresse word of God And how prove you that this precise party saith no lesse Nay you say more that they account their own Factious words no lesse to say no more then as the word of God To Say no more Nay surely you have said enough if it be true But if not true a great deale too much Well true or not true 't is enough you Say it and so you make this precise party to be ten times worse then the Jesuite And so you would have it For say you the Jesutie saith Sermons are the very word of God but the Precise That their own factious words are What The word of God No but As the word of God Why do you call them factious words because they are As the word of God Doe you not know that true Preachers words should be hoes logâ—â—â—eou as the Oracles or word of God as Peter speakes such words as become Sound Doctrine Sound Speech that cannot be condemned but unjustly by such as doe heterodidaskalein teach strange Doctrines and agree not to wholsome words keeping the Forme of Sound words But you charge here the precise party with factious words How prove you that For Si sat est accusasse quis innocens erit If your single Accusation be sufficient who shal be Innocent But you bring your proofe è Scriptis good evidence sure What 's that †For the freeing of factious and Silenced Ministers is termed The restoring of Gods word to its Liberty But where do you find these factious words In the Godly Author of the late Newes from Ipswich Well then here be 2 things obserbable 1. The Matter 2. the Author 1. The Matter charged The freeing of factious and Silenced Ministers is termed The restoring of Gods word to its Liberty And who are these factious and Silenced Ministers Namely a matter of about an hundred godly and Conscientious Ministers in Norfolke Suffolk Essex Kent Surrey and other Shâ—res who were in one Summer and the most in the Circuit of one Visitation some silenced some suspended some also excommunicated from Church and Chimney ab Aris ac Focis aqua igni and with their Wives and Children exposed to beggery and all calamity Wherefore They were factious Wherein They would not obâ—y and conforme to the Orders of their Ordinary What Orders For the reading in their severall Congregations the Book for Sports on the Lords dayes For the setting up of Altars in their Chancels For the causing of their People never accustomed to it before to come up to the Altar and there receive the Communion or the Lords Supper on their knees For these and the like which they refused to do they are doomed Factious But the Ministers aledged these were new Impositions praeter praescriptum Legis besides the prescript Law or Statute so as their obedience should have incurred a Premunire No matter for that They are a sort of factious fellows and ringleaders of Puritan-people as you apologised in the Starre-Chamber and so being once silenced 't is too late to talk Yet these men were all Conformists to the Discipline by Law established and lived peaceably How then were they Factious Why surely they would not observe Orders They would notwithstanding an Order to the Contrary preach twice every Lords day They would open the Catechisme-points and not content themselves with the bare words of Question and Answere as it is in the Booke they would hold the people so long with their preaching in the Afternoons that they had no time left to goe to their Laudable Sports nor could the people enjoy their pleasures with a quiet Conscience the Ministers would so trouble them with pressing the Sanctification of the Sabbath according to the 4th Commandement and the like Well then diligent Preachers they were and they preached the word of God by expounding and applying it which we shall heare you by and by to commend if we may beleeve your words when we see your deeds contrary So
of the New Testament L. p. 123. Even that Scripture of the old Testament was a light and a shining light too therfore could not but be sufficient when Tradition had gone before P. What told you us but now of misleading the Jewes by leaning too much upon Tradition and do you goe about the same way to mislead them blind as they be and to make them yet more blind if possible That you have gone to mislead Christians Doe you tell the Jewes now that the old Testament is sufficient when Tradition had gone before So as without Tradition preceding no sufficiency in the Book I perceive you will not yet have done with your Tradition as without which nothing is done L. p. 125. Certaine it is that by humane Autthority Consent and proofe a man may be assured Infallibly that the Scripture is the word of God by an acquired habit of Faith Cui non subest falsum under which no error nor falshood is but he cannot be assured Infallibâ—y by Divine Faith cui subesse non potest falsum into which no falshood can come but a Divine Testimony And a little after If you speake of Assurance onely in Generall I must then tell you a man may be assured nay Infallibly assured by Ecclesiasticall and humane proofe Men that never saw Rome may be sure and infallibly beleeve that such a City there is by Historicall and acquired Faith P. Although you use here a Schoole Distinction Cui non subest falsum cui non potest subesse falsum Of Faith Historicall and Faith Divine Assurance generall and Assurance particular yet in truth in the upshot it will appeare you speake very Confusedly as in the Babylonish Dialect or Phrase For first you attribute Infallibility to your acquired habit of Faith wherein is no falshood which habit of Faith you oppose to Divine Faith wherein no falshood can be whereas Infallibility in its genuine or Gramaticall sense importeth impossibility of Error or falshood For infallible is that which is not subject unto error which cannot be deceived So as you doe under correction very much mistake in applying your Schoole distinctions Non subest non potest to Infalliblity I remember indeed that the Schoole-men apply this Distinction to Faith Cui non subest cui non potest subesse falsum but never to Infalliblity for that is alwayes such Cui non potest subesse falsum which cannot be deceived Look a little better in your School-men and I beleeve you will find it so as I say Secondly while you would seem to put a Difference between your acquired habit of Faith which you expresse and instruct to be Historicall and Divine Faith which you say is onely to beleeve the Scripture to be the word of God you doe bring both ends together making your Acquired Faith and Divine Faith one and the same kind both Historicall Onely Historicall Faith may differ respectively to the object Humane or Divine For it is an Historicall Faith that beleeves there is such a City as Rome in which respect it may be called Historicall Faith humane and it is an Historicall Faith that beleeves the Scriptures to be the word of God in which respect it may be called Historicall Faith Divine Divine I say respectively to the object but being in kind the same Historicall Faith with the other whose object is humane And you tell us before that ordinary Grace and a morall perswasion upon the necessary previous Authority and Tradition of the present Church works this your Divine Faith All which reacheth no further but to an Historicall Faith call it what you will acquired or divine And your building this your Faith upon the Rise of humane Authority and morall perswasion how ever you use the ingredience of ordinary Grace by naming of it yet you are not able to say whether this Historicall Faith be an habit infused or acquired though you never so much daube it over with Divine Onely thus you give us occasion to take notice what an accute School-Divine you are at least so farre as a distinction or two will goe which rather confound then distinguish But admit you could demonstrate and make it plain unto us that your ordinary Grace what ever it is and a morall perswasion puts a speciall difference between your Divine Faith and Historicall yet to what purpose will all this prove May not both these Faiths be found in wicked men and Reprobates however distinguished by divine ordinary Grace and the like The Schooles have a knowne Distinction much more proper and sensible and agreeable to the truâ—h of Scripture then those you bring and so apply For speaking of the Difference between ordinary common Graces and those peculiar to the Elect they call the first Gratia gratis data Grace freely given meaning Ministeriall Graces which God freely gives as well to the wicked as to the godly he gave as Royall KarÃsmata or Graces to Saul as to David and Apostolicall Graces as well to Iudas as to Peter And this Grace Thus freely given is grounded on those words of Christ freely you have received freely give But that peculiar Grace which God freely gives too but onely to his Elect is distinguished from the other being called Gratia gratum faciens Grace makeing us acceptable unto God according to that of the Apostle According as he hath chosen us in him c. haveing predestinated us c. To the praise of the Glory of his grace wherein he hath made us accepted in the Beloved Or that Being justified freely by his grace c. Now ordinary and Common Grace being freely given of God to whom he will good or bad depends not upon humane Authority as a necessary inducing Cause Yet you make your present Church Authority which is but humane a necessary previous Cause to ordinary Grace whereby your Historicall or Divine Faith as you call it is wrought in beleeving the Scripture to be word of God and so what ever faire termes you guild this Faith withall it wil be found no better then either meerely humane or at least common unto the wicked and Reprobate which for all this your Divine Faith goe to hell and then the difference is not so great between your Historicall and Divine Faith which you keep such a puzzell about but that a man may without any great hazard winck and chuse Ob. But you tell us before That ordinarily the Scriptures must have Tradition to goe before Therfore that you place not an absolute necessity in it Ordinarily So you once say indeed But so as withall it must be absolutely necessary For you make all other meanes of this beliefe to be deficient without your Church-Tradition leading the way As for the Scriptures those have not light sufficient for themselves and are as a candle that must first be lighted before it can give light and that is by Church Authority As for the holy Holy Ghost that works not this Faith but by
an ordinary Grace and this Ordinary Grace hath no force at all unlesse the present Churches Authority prepare the way So as this Ordinarily of yours admits of no exception at all in any case though never so extraordinary And thus you exclude that your Divine Faith as it is a worke of ordinary Grace as you call it from being any Grace of God at all except Grace of Canterbury can dubbe it for a Grace For all Grace is one of those two kinds I named even now either that Grace of God which makes a man freely accepted in Christ which your Ordinary Grace by your own Confession doth not or that common Grace which is said to be freely given of God to whom he will without the intervention or prevention of any outward meanes or respect which your ordinary Graces cannot be for your selfe every where professe that no ordinary Grace nor any thing else can worke beliefe that the Scripture is the word of God unlesse your present Church Authority tanquam Gratia preparans ac praeveniens as a preparing and preventing Grace prepare the way And thus you see to what a Confusion all your Schoole Distinctions are brought And in truth your Schoole Distinctions for the most part being weighed in the just ballance of the Sanctuary prove too light and doe corrupt the truth For even that Distinction which I named of Gratia gratis data Gratia gratum faciens though the termes are good and true yet as some apply the latter to wit Grace making acceptable it is corrupt As when by that Grace they understand Faith Hope and Charity which being infused into the soule aâ—e the matter say they of Iustification and of our acceptation with God Now in this sense this member of the Distinction holds not good but is Popish For Faith onely is that Grace which makes us accepted of God but this not as it is a worke or Grace inherent but as an Instrument apprehending and applying Christ in whom alone we are through Faith accepted of GOD who makeâ— us accepted in the beloved So as he that will find any good and sound Distinction out of the Schoole-men he must doe as Virgil said of his reading of Ennius Margaritas è caeno legere gather pearles out of the mudde and he must look to have them well washed and polished and tryed by the Scriptures before he use them to illustrate or confirme any Doctrine of sound Divinity This by the way L. p. 226. The time was before this A. miserable rent in the Church of Christ which I B think no Christian can look upon but with a bleeding heart that C you and we were all of one beliefe D That beliefe was tainted in Tract and Corruption of time very deeply A division was made yet so as E both parties held the Creed and other Common Principles of beliefe Of these this was one of the greatest That the Scripture is the word of God For our beliefe of all things contained in it depends upon it Since F this Division there hath been nothing done by us to discredit this Principle Nay we have given it G all honour and ascribed unto it more sufficiency even to the containing of all things necessary to Salvation with satis superque enough and more then enough which your selves have not done doe not H And for begetting and setling a beliefe of this Principle we goe the same way with you and a better besides The same way with you because we alow the Tradition of the present Church to be the first inducing motive to imbrace this Principle onely we cannot goe so farre in this way as you to make the present Tradition I alwayes an infallible word of God unwritten P. Here I Have Alphabetically as by A B C. c. noted sundry particulars A That you call the Protestants seperating from the Church of Rome a miserable rent Why miserable when Christ Commands it As Rev. 18.4 as is noted before and shall yet more in a fit place So as the Protestants had been in a miserable condition if this seperation this rent had not been made B 2 dly And must every Christian heart bleed to see it because it seems yours doth Surely this hath cost the heart-blood of many thousands of Gods Saints and Martyrs shed and spilt by that blood drunken whore Yet better so to perish by her temporally here then to perish with her eternally hereafter which must have been had not this miserable rent been made C 3 dly But before this rent say you they and we were all of one beliefe You may speake for your selfe if you had lived before the rent was made We doubt not but both you would have been of the same Faith with Rome and would have continued in it so as for your part there should never have been made such a miserable rent We know well both your Faith and your Charitable and Peaceable disposition for that matter Yea though that one beliefe was tainted That should have broken no square For you say D 4 ly That beliefe that very one beliefe whereof you and they then were before the rent was tainted yea very deeply too But I say still speake for your selfe and your Confederates onely usurpe not the name of all Protestants quorum tu pars minima whereof you were the least part if any at all that seperated from Rome whereof many before they came to be called Protestants which was upon their protesting against the Whore of Babylon and for their just and necessary seperating from her dissented from and disliked and so farre as the iniquity of the times and humane frailty and unavoidable necessity permitted seperated themselves privately at least from many of her most notorious and intolerable en ormites and not a few in their severall ages wherein they lived openly protested against her both by writing and preaching though it cost them their heart-blood for it You have at hand a Catalogue of them in Catalogus Testium veritatis and in the Book of Acts and Monuments and other Authors both forraigne and domesticke and that of fâ—esh bleeding memory E 5 ly You prove your Faith was then one for holâ—ing the Creed and other CoÌ„mon Principles of beliefe of which one of the Greatest c. Indeed before that rent Rome professed and held the letter and externall form of the Creed but not the sense faith life and substance as elsewhere you confesse of the present Church of Rome Did you so then so now I doubt 't will prove so in a great measure For though you tell us that your beliefe of all things contained in the Creed depends upon this principle That Scripture is the word of God For that is the best sense can be made of your words yet there be many even fundamentall Doctrines in Scripture which your beliefe depends not upon nor your practises agree unto as both before is touched and occasion will be given yet more to speake of
Rule of Faith the Scripture Implying that to hold the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith is one speciall note of A true Church But now you confesse againe that Rome holds not this Rule but as a partiall and imperfect Rule And therefore denying this Rule of Faith she ceaseth to be a pure Church of Christ And which is the more this the Church of Rome doth ex professo solemni Decreto professedly and by solemne Decrees ratified as irrefragable and that under Anathema to be received of all And this is farre more then to doe it by Practise onely And yet in Practise to destroy and overthrow but onely some speciall Doctrines of Scripture though otherwise the Scripture be professed and confessed in this or that particular Church to be the intire and onely Rule of Faith is de facto to disclaime the whole Scripture and to unmake it the perfect Rule of Faith and so thereby such a Church possessing such and such Errors as are Fundamentall that is against the Foundation is fallen from Christ as hath been formerly proved Now if but any one part of Scripture in this or that Doctrine of Christ be overthrown so as therein it is not made the Rule of Faith and this overthrowing such Doctrines being once professed and maintained generally in any one particular Church makes that Church to cease to be a true Church of Christ as not holding the Scripture intirely but professedly overthrowing it in such and such particulars then how much more the Church of Rome professing and maintaining gumne kephale with a whores forehead that the holy Scripture is not the onely Rule of Faith intire and perfect but partiall and imperfect as your Lordship confesseth doth thereby proclaime her selfe to all the world to be fallen away absolutely from Christ and so ceaseth to be a true Church of God And denying the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith she denyeth the Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner stone and so is fallen quite from the Foundation Nor onely thus by Addition of another Rule doth the Church of Rome overthrow the onely Rule of Faith the Scriptures but also by denying the selfe Authority of them as also you doe and withall by tying the sense of Scripture to the interpretation of the Church as also you doe at least in difficult places and by holding and maintaining false Doctrines against the Scriptures which overthrow Christ and wherein they will not be regulated by the Scriptures as you also doe in your Altars and forbidding the Doctrines of Grace to be Preached and other things which if the Church of England hold with the Church of Rome and with you you and both your Churches are fallen absolutely from Christ and so cease to be true Churches of God As also your very Hierarchy makes you to be no true Church of Christ were there nothing else as before is sufficiently proved And if you desire any further proofe that the Church of Rome is no true Church of Christ I still referre you to the forementioned Book Babel no Bethel And though you supprest the Book yet ten to one but one of your Hounds will hunt it out for you Next for the Sacraments which is your second Reason you say The Church of Rome holds both the Sacraments as instrumentall Causes and Seales of Grace though they adde more and misuse these Ergo she cannot but be a true Church in Essence For Answere First she holds them not absolutely to be Sacraments but dependently upon the Priests intention which you mention elsewhere And so hath the Councel of Trent defined of the Sacraments so Vega so Bellarmine Secondly if she be sure the Priests intention be not wanting or going a wool-gathering in his Consesecration then she makes the Sacraments to be not Instrumentall Causes of Graces but aitia kúria Principall and efficient working causes of Grace ex opere operato as they barbarously speake by the immediate vertue of the worke wrought So the Councel of Trent also So as they shut out the Holy Ghost from this worke as the Principall Efficient worker and sealer of Grace Thirdly For Baptisme which you make to be an Infallible Marke of that Church to be Christian besides their infinite corruptions of the Element of water which the Apostle calleth pure water with their spittle salt creame exorcismes or conjurations of the Devils insultations and the like they hang the very beeing not onely the vertue of this Sacrament upon the Priests intention which intention of the Priest is so uncertaine as Vega one of the prime Sticklers in the Councel of Trent as aforesaid in his Booke upon the Councel of Trent especially the sixt Session where he treateth of certainty of Faith in Iustification Confesseth that there can be no certainty of Salvation to a man because he cannot be certain whether he hath true Baptisme or no and that in regard of the Priests intention whereof he cannot be certaine So as by this their own Doctrine no one Papist can be sure that he is a Christian and so consequently neither can all the members of that Church severally nor conjunctly the whole Body it selfe be sure whether they or it be Christian or no and so the Church of Rome upon this very ground cannot resolve certainly whether she be a Church of Christ or no unlesse your Testimony will help her out at a dead lift And that not onely in regard of the Priests intention in the Sacrament of Baptisme but also in their Additionall Sacrament of Orders one of these more which they have added to the two So as for default of the Popes intention in ordering of Prelates or of the Prelates invention in ordering one another and in ordering of Priests and of Priests intention in Consecrating their Sacrament of Baptisme as themselves Vega and others do argue the case they are all put to the stagger whether they have in that Church either Priesthood or Sacraments For all hangs upon that weake pin or haire of the Priests intention So as another of their Primipili a Standard-bearer of the Dominicans in the same Councell Dominicus Soto forementioned in his Book de natura gratia saith that Deus in potestate Sacerdotis posuit Populi salutem GOD hath put the peoples Salvation in the Priests power Now all this considered and withall the time when this was made a Decree in the Councel of Trent a matter of 100 yeares agoe and when it was but new and the Pope and Prelates and Priests could not perhaps of a good while learne their lesson perfectly and so get a habit of it but that in all their Consecration of Prelates and Priests still intention was to seek and where it breakes off as in the Pope and Prelates in their Consecration of Orders there followes a meere nullity in succession of the whole Generation of Priests downwards and so through that whole body no Priesthood now no Sacraments
then to Iudas the Standard-bearer of that troope that came to apprehend Christ for Iudas came to Christ with Hale Master and kissed him and with this kisse as by the signall given betrayed him And is not your Ordine primus by this very Character known to be Antichrist while pretending to be Apostolick and a Successor of the Apostles he doth the more easily betray Christ in his Word and Members into the hands and bands of men Object But Peter was Ordine primus What such as to avoyd confusion As a head uniting all the members and governing all the body as your Ordine primus to avoyd confusion necessarily imports Did Peter at any time convent the Apostles Was he that Ordine primus that struck the stroke and gave the Difinitive sentences in that first Generall and Apostolicall Councel Act. 15. Did not Iames determine and the whole Church assented And Gal. 2.9 Is not Iames set before Peter And was not Peter and Iohn sent by the rest of the Apostles to Samaria When was this necessity then of an Ordine primus to avoyd confusion And what confusion is avoyded this day in the Church of England by your being Ordine primus nay prim-as both in honour and Authority and Iurisdiction Have you not by that your Ordine primus brought a confusion upon Religion Upon the Doctrinall Articles Upon the Consciences and Faith of men not knowing what to beleeve or what to doe or how to live in any peace inward or outward But you thinke to shift well enough for one so long as you put an other Ordine primus before as before is noted upon whose back you may lay all your burthens So as if any thing be amisse or succeed not well you are not then the Ordine primus Lastly one thing I observe more from your Ordine primus and that is the necessity of it which say you some one must be What one soever this is whether the Patriarch of the greater world or he of the lesser or other World but Rome rather must be she there 's a necessity for this that one be Ordine primus What 's this By the necessity of this Ordine primus is brought in a necessity of your new Catholicke Militant Church consisting of the Prelacy or Hierarchy which is so one as one must be Ordine primus as generall of the whole Army as the Dragon and his Angels to warre against Michael and his Angels So as here is an indissoluble and inseparable combination and confederacy of Prelates throughout the world making up that one Militant or Malignant Church whereof one must 〈◊〉 the chiefe to order the battel that there be no disorder but that every one keep his ranke and fight in his station against the true Militant Church of Christ as was before noted L. p. 182. Let Rome reduce it selfe to the observation of Tradition Apostolicke to which it held in Irenaeus his time and I will say as he did That it will be then necessary for every Church and for the faithfull every where to agree with it P. Let Rome reduce it selfe to the rule of the Scripture in all things which the faithfull there held in Pauls time when he was prisoner yet Preacher in Rome and then I will say and wil be the first that will doe it I wil be one of the faithfull that will agree with it But for Tradition Apostolicke I know not what you meane and therfore I dare not say as you doe But still you hold with Ordine primus I am sure of it You hold fast together for your Hierarchy wherein you place the Pope your Ordine primus Which while you doe Whatsoever Tradition Apostolicke Rome shall reduce it selfe to it wil be most perillous and pernicious too for any of the faithfull to agree with it And I am sure the Hierarchy and our Ordine primus in that was no Tradition Apostolicke So for that ther 's no talke of reducing either for Romes or Canterbury And could you perswade the world to agree with with the Ordine primus at Rome then that speech of yours pag. 182. would easily take place in these our times as well as Irenaeus his time Very great reason was there in Irenaeus his time that upon any difference arising in the Faith Omnes undique fideles all the faithfull or if you will all the Churches round about should have recourse that is resort to Rome being the Imperiall City and so a Church of more powerfull Principality then any other at that time in those parts of the world But the meaning of A.C. is we must so have recourse to Rome as to submit our faith to hers And should I grant them their own sense that all the faithfull every where must agree with Rome which I may give but can never grant yet were not this saying any whit prejudiciall to us now For first here 's a powerfull Principality ascribed to the Church of Rome so you Here are many words conningly woven and packt up together that to discover your full meaning you had need to unâ—old your whole pack Now all round about Rome is a large compasse for the whole world lyes round about Rome it being also at least there the Imperiall City and so a Church of more powerfull Principality then any other which might therfore challenge resort of all unto it as to the onely Oracle for resolving all your faithfull every where in doubts of Faith Yea and if you should grant too that all must submit their faith to Rome you say it were no whit prejudiciall to us now And should you not grant it how should it agree with your necessity of having one Ordine primus For to what purpose should there be one Ordine primus to avoyd confusion iâ— to his Call Summons and Judgement all your faithfull resorting they should not rest this their faith in his Determination Otherwise how should Confusion be avoyded For then to what one Ordine primus should they goe But do you yeeld it or no You say you may give it but can never grant it I pray you whether shall your affirmative giving or your negative granting be of more force Or if you give it how do you not grant it too Yea giving is more then granting If therfore you give it you doe more then grant it But suppose you restrain it onely to Irenaeus his time Had Rome then an Infallible Oracle in the Popes brest Or was his Iudgement the more infallible because his Chaire was in the Imperiall City Or his sentence of the more credit because his Church had the more powerfull Principality Then why in all doubtfull cases of Faith should not all the faithfull in England resort to the Chaire of Canterbury as which hath the most powerfull Principality of all the Prelates in England Why should not the thresholds of your Palace be as much worne with the footsteps of those that come to your Oracle for resolution
in matters of faith as the Shrine of your Predecessor S. Thomas of Canterbury with the keyes of his blind votaries And so much the more in these dayes as wherein you have put all England to a stand and stagger what to beleeve in point of Faith considering that the Articles of Religion like Meteors hang in suspense in the ayre no man knowing what to make of them whether they be white or blacke or what such Comets portend untill to that Edict of the Court that binds up the sense of the Articles fast asleep or in a slumber between Hawke and Buzzard or as a speaking in a dreame you shall superadde the Definitive Decree of the Chaire of Canterbury to interpret unto us what they have dreamed all this while But I suppose the Board calling you so much away from your Chaire you are the more willing and that in such a case of necessity to send all the faithfull to your Ordine primus at Rome and to Peters Chaire there if any such thing be there which may like Iunoes three footed stoole resolve all their doubts And so as you say to A C. Rome may thanke you for it But alwayes provided tha◠Rome first reduce her selfe as you say to the Observation of Tradition Apostolicke and then you will say Latinè plainly That it wil be then necessary for every Church and for the faithfull every where to agree with it to have recourse to Rome and to rest their Faith there where is the most Powerfull Principality And thus as well as I could I have pickt up your meaning wherein if I have come short you must pardon me and blame your selfe for your being no more perspicuous in matters of such moment as about consulting of Oracles considering that that of Apollo and Delphos was long agoe put to silence But to proceed L. p. 199. The Bishop of Rome hath no power from Christ over the whole Church to be Iudge in Controversies nay out of all doubt 't is not the least reason why de facto he hath so little successe because de Jure he hath no power given P. Not over the whole Church This seems to imply that the Bishop of Rome hath a power from Christ to be Iudge in Controversies over all the Churches at least within his own more powerfull Principality And consequently that the Primate of Canterbury hath the like power from Christ to be Judge in Controversies over the whole Church of England If you have yet it wil be some ease to the English that they have an Oracle so neare home to resolve them in all doubts so as they need not as formerly go trudge to Rome for the matter But neither to the Pope in his Powerfull Principality nor to you in your Primacy hath Christ given any power at all to be Judge in Controversies of Faith And because you have no Calling nor Commission from Christ therfore 't is true you say in this that the Pope hath no better successe And I pray you what successe have you had since you took upon you to sway the Crosier staffe of Canterbury and to be Judge in Controversies of Faith making and raysing controversies there where there was none before as namely in the Articles of Religion 'T is true you have put many a good Minister to Silence thrust many a one out of his Cure and Countrey levied your way for an universall Conformity to Rome prevailed much in your Designes that way but yet have you any great cause to boast of your successe all things Considered I say no more Verbum sapienti you understand me well enough And certainly when you cast up your reckoning you will find your selfe to be as much behind hand for successe as you do the Pope And your Reason is true because you have no power no Authority no Calling no Commission from Christ either to possesse such a place or to execute such an Office For as the Lord saith in Ieremie speaking of false Prophets I sent them not neither commanded them therfore they shall not profit this people at all saith the Lord. So neither have you reason to thinke that because you may do what you list in turning things upside down in seting up your Altars in suppressing Gods word in oppressing Gods Ministers in advancing your Arminian and Popish faction and you hitherto prosper therein while there is never a man left that dare so much as mutter a word against these your practises so great is your Power and so terrible your Cruelty and Ministers so Cowardly so as by this meanes your Cause and Course seems to prosper while you can crush any that shall interpose himselfe or lawfully in his place oppose your violent courses therfore Christ hath given you this power thus to tyrannise wherein you doe so prosper True it is that Christ hath given way to Satan to rage in these times because he knows he hath but a short time and hereby Christ will try and humble his people that he may doe them good and be glorified in their deliverance and in the destruction of all such Papall and Antichristian Tyranny L. p. 200. The Church being as large as the world Christ thought it fitter to governe it Aristocratically by Divers rather then by One Viceroy And I beleeve that this is true For all the time of the first 300. yeares and somwhat bettter it was governed Aristocratically to wit by the Bishops c. P. Here you give us occasion further to launch into the Deep of this Mystery that we may sound the bottome of it and so discerne what ground it floats upon mudde or sand or both although we have in part discovered it before Here you say and you say you beleeve it too it is an Article of your Creed that Christ thought it fitter to govern the Church Aristocratically by diverse rather then by one Viceroy And you give the Reason The Church being as large as the world We will first take an Assay of your words and then of your Reason For to a vulgar Reader some of your words are somwhat obscure and some also very finely couched that every eye cannot at the first discerne the Mystery of them And first for Aristocratically Aristotle the famous Philosopher and no meane statesman in his Politicks layes down 3 kinds of Civil Government taken in the better part The first is Monarchia which is a government by One the second is Aristocratia which is a Government of the Best Men the third is Democratia which is a Government Popular or of the People Opposite to these three he sets three sorts of bad Government the first is Tyranny which is opposed to Monarchy Tyranny ruling either without or contrary to the good Laws established but a Monarchy governing according to the established good Laws of the State Kingdome or Common-weale The second is Oligarchia which signifies the Government of a few and this standing in opposition to Aristocratia
Protestants except not against it For this difference de Modo of the manner of the Presence of Christs naturall Body in the Sacrament we have spoken before at large And was this Difference trow you so small that cost both Ridley and Cranmer and Frith their lives For you cite them all 3 in one Page calling them the learned of those zealous in Queen Maries dayes Martyrs you do not call them beware of that So as times kà rin for honour sake you mention them not So you cite Calvin a little before whom in the High Commission you honoured with the Title of Rascall And these Martyrs are they whom one of your Divines of note and worth Dr. Heylin in a Booke licensed by your Chaplein stiles with the Honourable Title of Schismaticall Hereticks But to let this passe for currant with you The summe of your whole passage touching this point from pag. 292. to 296. is to perswade us to acknowledge a reall presence of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament onely differing from the Papists quoad moaum as touching the manner of presence Now I confesse this is a very pretty and ready way to lead to your Reconciliation But let me tell you even words and names and verball expressions are of no small force many times to lead men into great errours although at first they meant no harme that used them For instance The Primitive Fathers when they began to call the Lords Table an Altar they little dreamed what an Altar it would prove afterwards as wheron to offer up in sacrifice Christs naturall body So when they called Ministers Priests they imagined not that those Priests would prove afterwards such sacrificing Priests as now are in the Church of Rome And when they called the Lords supper a sacrifice which they meant to be Eucharisticall of thanksgiving they never suspected that this would become afterwards a corporall sacrifice of Christs very body and bâ—ood And yet these very Names so taken up gave occasion afterwards of setting up the greatest Idol that ever was in the world as we see at this day So dangerous is it to expresse Divine matters by any other Name then what the Scripture hath given them Seeing then that in Scripture we find no such words as Reall Presence of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament it is not safe for Christians to take them up And so much the more because we see by experience the mischiefes that this reall presence so called and so understood as the Papists doe hath done in the Church of God How many Martyrs hath it made How much innocent blood hath it spilt So as it hath gotten and that deservedly a very bad Name And it is the Name or Word wherby the Romanists expresse their Great Idol in the Masse And David saith Their Drinke offerings of Blood will I not offer nor take up their Names into my lips So as Christians ought not to use the Names of Idols invented by man to expresse Divine things of Scripture by Yea K. Hezechiah when the Brazen Serpent which God himselfe had commanded to be made for the present occasion in the Wildernesse though he commanded it not to be kept for a Monument began to be abused unto Idolatry he brake it to pieces And so in this case though these words The Reall Presence may beare a good sense yet being and that of long time abused to the setting up and upholding of most grosse Idolatry we are to stamp it to powder and never use it more And we have as little reason to be perswaded hereto by your Lordship as by any For as this word Reall presence is very suspicious in it selfe and much more in regard of the Papists abusing of it so it wants not suspicion that you so commend it unto us First in regard of the whole matter of your Book which generally complyes with Popery Secondly in regard of the main scope of your Booke which is to bring on a Reconciliation with Rome And Thirdly and more especially in regard of some speeches which have now and then dropped from you in publick Court where speaking of Altars-placing you said you would have none to sit above God-Allmighty which must needs imply as before is noted that either your Altar is your God Allmighty or els God Allmighty hath a locall presence and residence there upon your Altar And so Fourthly your eager zeale in promoting of Altars makes us much to suspect your Reall Presence as fearing all will not be well when once we have taken up and let down this Reall presence of God Allmighty into our bellies And so also Fiftly your Priests by that Name doe increase the suspition And Sixtly because you tell us before of a Transubstantiation taken properly and improperly And Seventhly Because you tell us by and by that Transubstantiation Purgatory Forbearance of the Cup are but Disputed and Improbable Opinions Lastly it is used to Idolatry and so to be broken in pieces as the Brazen Serpent was And therfore for all these Reasons we desire not to be troubled with your Reall presence but leave it to the Papists or to you to restore it where you had it or if you like it so well to use it let it be to your selfe or Chappell at Lambeth trouble not the Church of England with it any more which desireth not more matter for a new Booke of Martyrs Now to come to the Martyrs First for Ioh. Friths words Not to make it an Article of Faith but leave it Indifferent First However the words sound we must weigh them by the sense And the best Commentary of his words is his death which he suffered even therfore because he made it an Article of his faith to beleeve that Christ was not Really Present in the Sacrament as the Papists do hold and therfore on the contrary he held it as an Article of his faith That Christ was onely vertually and spiritually present to the Faith of the Receiver according to the true meaning of those Sacramentall words This is my body as a little before we shewed Secondly to take Friths words in your sense doth overthrow a Christians faith as touching the Sacrament wherein the beleever receives and applyes by faith the merits of Christs death to the comforting nourishing and strengthning of his soule And a man is bound to beleeve aright concerning the Sacrament and to put a maine difference between truth and erroâ—â— therein And is it not an Article of Faith to beleeve Christs body not to be corporally present in the Sacrament seeing he saith Me have you not alwayes It is expedient for you that I goe away who sits at Gods right hand whom the heavens must receive till his coming againe And lastly admit his words may be stretched to the full bredth of your sense which is erronious wee must measure all mens words by the Rule of Scripture in divin matters If they dissent or come short or goe
over or besides consider men are men But I say we cannot conceive that those words of Iohn Frith could have any other sense then that which was sound and good considering as I said before he dyed for that very difference in Faith touching Christs presence in the Sacrament Now for Dr Ridley saying we differed in Modo in the manner 'T is true And the manner is the whole matter of difference Papists say Christs naturall Body is present we that the merit and vertue of his Body broken upon the Crosse and the merit and vertue of his Blood shed upon the Crosse is present to the beleeving soule in the Sacrament I may expresse it by this similitude of the Sun and the beames The body of the Sun is in heaven in its spheare locally and circumscriptively but the Beames are on the earth And when the Sun beames shine into our house we say here 's the Sun though it be the beames not the body of the Sun And so the Scripture saith of the Sacrament This is my Body because with the bread the faithfull Communicant receives the beames of Christs Body crucified into his soule his merits but not the Body it selfe But the Papists say as much as The very body of the Sun is in their house when it shineth But enough of this here having spoken sufficiently of it before Yet for a conclusion If your Lordship hold it to be a matter so indifferent about the manner of Christs naturall-bodyes presence in the Sacrament which you put upon the Martyrs if you were put to it as they were would you be of their mind and resolution rather to loose Canterbury life and 〈◊〉 then beleeve as the Church of Rome beleeves of the reall presence But I leave you to the Resolution L. p. 297. Transubstantiation Purgatory Forbearance of the Cup in the Sacrament are disputed and improbable Opinions yet so imposed as this may be enough for us to leave Rome though the Old Prophet forsooke not Israel 3 Reg. 13. And a little after And therfore in this present case ther 's perill and great perill of damnable both Schisme and Heresie and other sin by living and dying in the Roman faith tainted with so many superstitions as at this day it is and their Tyranny to boot P. I told you I feared some such thing when you commended last unto us the indifferencie of admitting of Termes of Reall Presence For now I perceive your Reall presence even in Transubstantiation it selfe is but an improbable and disputed opinion as also Purgatory and the Forbearance of the Cup. And by Disputed I suppose you meane Disputable such as either hath been disputed or may be disputed againe so as these things are matters of dispute and improbable And somtimes a thing that is improbable may prove true For Improbabile is not alwayes falsum It may seem improbable to us and yet be true in it selfe But for Transubstantiation is that which is clearly against Faith against Reason against the nature of Christs Body naturall against the nature of the Sacrament but an improbable opinion And for Purgatory Is that which is against Faith and overthrows the infinit vertue merit and efficacie of the blood of Christ but an improbable opinion And is that which you confesse to be against the expresse institution of our Saviour Christ as the taking away of the Cup in the Sacrament but an improbable opinion And doe you so favourably call that but a Forbearance which is a most notorious and shamelesse Sacriledge And then secondly All this say you may be enough for us to leave Rome May be Much may be but Is not I hope And so long well enough And though Actu it be yet not affectu But you might have said All this and much more besides if not onely disputable and improbable things but abominable and damnable But this is enough were there no more Yet say you the old Prophet forsook not Israel What then Ergo the Protestants though they might have had cause enough to leave Rome yet should have done rather as the old Prophet did not to have made a separation from Rome Ergo they were not so kind as the old Prophet But the old Prophet might continue in Israel upon better terms then the Protestants could have done in Rome For Israel had no Inquisition as Rome hath And you confesse that men might live in Israel and injoy the liberty of their Conscience seeing there was no Law made to restrain them from going to the one Altar at Ierusalem or to constrain them to sacrifice in the high places And yet that 's more then I beleeve can well be proved For those 7000. that had not bowed to Baal did hide themselves as not daring to professe and avow their Religion and Faith towards God as before So as it seems there was no open toleration in Israel for any to goe up to Ierusalem And it can hardly be thought that Ieroboam being a great Politician should give toleration to his subjects to goe up to Ierusalem to worship least they should fall back to Iuda againe for prevention whereof the two Calves were set up to keep the people at home The like policie used the High Priests Scribes and Pharisees to suppresse those that should confesse Christ in making a Decree to excommunicate them and so in puting Christ to death least his Kingdome should put down theirs And I hope your Hierarchy wants not the like policie for the rooting out of Puritans the true Professors and People of Christs Kingdome being Christs Kingdome and yours cannot consist together But you conclude somwhat dangerously when you say Therfore in the present case ther 's perill great perill of damnable both Schisme and Heresie and other sins by living and dying in the Roman faith tainted with so many superstitions as at this day it is and their Tyranny to boot This conclusion you apply not to the silly ignorant Papists for you leave them secure and out of danger as afore but to the knowing men of Rome having shewed them that though the silly ignorants may perhaps through the thick fogge and Aegyptian Myst of their palpable ignorance steale or stumble into heaven yet for the learned as A.C. and his fellowes 't is danger yea great danger to live and dye and that knowingly in the Roman faith But me thinks neither here do you buckle your selfe to such a serious businesse as this is so as to pull these wilfull men out of their puddle wherein they wittingly stick so fast You doe not with the spirit of zeale which Iude requires in good Ministers saying some save with feare aâ—prázontes snatching or plucking them out of the fire hating even the garment spotted with the flesh Nor doe you with Peters zeale tell these men save your selves from this crooked and wicked Generation such as the Scribes and Pharisees and High-Priests were But you onely tell them Ther 's danger great danger Of
whatsoever faith is requisite and necessary to salvation as the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God as is shewed before And this saving faith is the faith of all them that are heires of salvation to wit of all Gods Elect and all the Saints But it seems with Father Bellarmine you have an Implicit faith for your ignorants and an Explicit for you that are great Clerks or the letter of the Creed for those and the sense for these But I handled this also before Onely you propound a Paradox which is no worke for your pen wherein you are the wiser not to take upon you to read or expound such riddles had you been so wise as not to have propounded â— And yet it is the worke of every good Minister of Chrâ—â—t to teach the people what to beleeve and to exhort them to grow in Grace and knowledge and Faith and so declare unto them the whole Counâ—el of God and to keep nothing backe and to build men up in knowledge more and more unto perfection As the Preacher saith Because the Preacher was wise he still taught the people knowledge yea he gave good heed and sought out and set in Order many Proverbs The Preacher sought to find out acceptable words and that which was written was upright even words of truth The words of the wise are aâ— Goads and Nayles fastened by the Masters of Assemblies which are given from one shepheard But this is not a patterne for you to follow neither by your tongue nor pen. You have other imployment for them But though we cannot set a bound to faith in respect of perfection of degrees yet we ought to teach the people all the parts of saving faith and knowledge striving unto perfection And besides it is the duty of every good Minister of Christ to limit and set bounds to all the negatives of faith in discovering all manner of sins and errours which are all contrary and enemies to faith and salvation For which end they must open all the ten Commandements as Christ did Mat. 5. and all other points of saving Doctrine in the Scriptures Now though you have not the skill or will to set bounds how farre men shall beleeve yet you want no will nor power to inhibit and restraine Preachers shewing them how little a way they must goe in teaching the people and so consequently how little a way the people must goe in beleeving and saving knowledge as in restraining and forbidding to preach the Doctrines of Grace as before forbidding Lectures and especially all Sermonâ— on the Lords day afternoon forbidding long Preaching at any time forbidding expounding of the Catethisme as many of your Prelates doe and the like Thus you can finely set men bounds how little thy shall beleeve or know of God to their salvation That 's a worke if not for your pen or hand yet for your head and not unlikely of your hand and pen too L. p. 327. The Romanists dare not beleeve but as the Roman Church beleeves And the Roman Church at this day doth not beleeve the Scripture and the Creeds in the sense in the which the ancient Primitive Church received them P Dare they not How then say you there is possibility of salvation in the Roman Church for any when it condemneth and accurseth saving faith and justification thereby with other saving truths For if the Papists dare not beleeve but as their Church beleeves then they are bound to good behaviour they dare not beleeve to their salvation And if they dare not beleeve to their salvation then they cannot be saved And if they cannot be saved what possibility of salvation for them living and dying in that faith And here Why do you noâ— say in the sense of the Scriptures themselves and not of the Primitive Church But you doe not like the Scripture sense except the Church interpret it You allow not Scriptures to speake for or testifie for themselves You are the same man still And as we sayd before you doe wisely in that to stoppe the mouth of Scripture as Ahab did Michaiahs for it never speaks good of you but evil alwayes L. p. 232. I will acknowledge every fundamentall point of faith as proveable out of the Canon as we account it as if the Apochryphall were added unto it P. As if Apocryphalls were any divine proofe at all of the fundamentall points of faith in Scripture or ought any way in that respect to be so much as named with the Scripture Apocryphalls saith Ierome may be read for instruction of manners but not for confirmation of faith as before L. p. 336. I have lived and shall God-willing dye in that faith of Christ as it was professed in the ancient Primitive Church and as it is professed in the present Church of England P. As you handle the matter ther 's a vast difference between the faith of Christ professed in the ancient Primitive Church and that which is now professed in the present Church of England For the Ancient Primitive Church taken properly and strictly as somtime in your Booke as before you put it was that wherein the Apostles lived Now will ye be tryed by the Ancient Primitive Church of the Apostles held and professed What say you my Lord for your faith in this case Will you put your faith and Religion to the tryall of the most intire and upright Jâ—ry the Twelve Apostles Certainly if you decline this tryall 't is a shrewd suspicion that the faith of yours wherein you are so resolute to live and dye is not right Therfore for shame of the world you must at least professe or pretend that you wil be tryed by the the Faith and Religion which the Apostles and the true Church of God in their time as being the most Pure Prime Ancient Primitive Church held and professed First then That Primitive Church neither held nor professed nor practised any Hierarchicall government of Prelates or Bishops but have câ—ndemned it in their writings the Scriptures of the New Testament And yet I are say you resolve to live and dye Primate of Canterbury and Metropolitan of all England Secondly The Apostles and the ancient Primitive Church in their Age and time had no Altars but onely the Lord Iesus Christ Heb. 13.10 as it is formerly proved but you and your Church of England both set up and worship Altars and â—each the people both by your Books and practise to do so too and force Ministers to erect Altars or force them out of their Churches And this Faith and Religion also I dare say you resolve to live and dye in Thirdly The Apostles and the anciciâ—nt Primitiâ—e Church in their time celebrated and sanctified every Lords day in holy duties onely and in preaching as well in the afternoon as in the fâ—â—enoon never forbidding but still exhorting to preach in season and out of season giving no liberty to vaine and profane sports and Pastimes either upon
did they speake this out of any disesteem of those Fathers but when they were I say so urged to defend the truth against the Adversaries of it by the evidence whereof they were able to make good what they sayd that those Fathers were but men and might erre Now for this who is more apt then your Lordship to cast in the dish of this precise party as you call them that they should upon just cause speake thus of your antient Fathers What would you say then if all this party should as one Man rise up and openly professe against you as a notorious enemy of the truth and of the Church of God in England and elswhere and of all pious sincere and zealous Preachers of the Gospell and that under the Name of the precise party which you so yoake with the Jesuites you doe maliciously not onely seek to undermine but even professedly to invade and oppugne the whole Kingdome of Iesus Christ as also your practises and this your Book can witnesse And how doe you come to know the thoughts of this precise party so well that you say they think their own preachings were infallible Surely you do but think so You might therfore judge more charitably But as I said of those Fathers so do I of these what they have a good and sure ground in Scripture for to preach and teach they may be sure and they know it to be the truth and so infallible As for those that preach of cursing and lyes as David speaks and suggest slanders and false reports into the eares of Princes and Courts against Gods Ministers and Preachers let them thinke and be assured too that what they preach or print is not onely not infallible but most malicious and detestable both before God and Man as tending also the blinding and so to the downfall of such as beleeve such falshoods to be infallible L. p 104. When the Fathers say we are to rely upon Scriptures onely they are never to be understood with exclusion of Tradition in what causes soever it may be had Not but that the Scripture is abundantly sufficient in and of it selfe for all things but because it is deep and may be drawn into different senses and so mistaken If any man will presume upon his own strâ—ngth and goe single without the Church And citing an excellent sentence out of Vincentius Lynnenâ—is quum sit perfectus Scripturarum Canon sibique ad ommia satis superque sufficiat c. Forasmuch as that Canon of Scripture is perfect and superabundantly selfe-sufficient to all things and if you adde this your note upon it in the margent And if it be sibi ad omnia then to this to prove it selfe at least after Tradition hath prepared as to receive it P. A little before you cite also Augustine seting downe 4 speciall notes and marks internall to the Scripture to prove it to be the word of God As 1. The Miracles 2. That there is nothing carnall in the Doctrine 3. That there hath been such performance of it 4. That by such a Doctrine of humility the whole world almost hath been converted And there also to the same purpose Lynnenâ—is who placeth the Scripture before Tradition And here againe That the Scripture is selfe-sufficient to all What room then for Tradition Or if Tradition have any place at all it were good manners for it to come behind as a Handmayd waiting on her Mistris But you can salve all with a wet finger or with one drop out of your pen If it be sibi ad omnia that is selfe-sufficient to all things then to this to prove it selfe at least after Tradition â—ath prepard us to receive it This is your own Addition or Comentary and Glosse of your own Mother wit which is as Tertullian saith of the old Roman Senate which had made a decree that none should be taken into the number of their Gods but such as the Senate it selfe should first think worthy and approve of So as Tiberius Caesar under whose Empire Christ suffered when he had heard much fame of Christ he moved the Senate that Christ migh be entertained for one of their Gods But the Senate for the foresaid Reason rejected it because they first had approved of it Whereupon Tertullian saith Ergo nisi homini plaâ—uerit Deus non erit Deus Therfore except it please man God shall not be God A fit parralell for this very purpose The Scripture by the consent of all the antient Fathers is abundantly selfe-sufficient to prove it selfe to be the word of God but the present Church hath a Senatus consultum a Decree Tradition which must first give her voyce and approbatiton that the Scripture is the word of God otherwise in vaine are all those Encomiums and Commendations of the Fathers though never so antient affirming and confirming the Scriptures selfe-sufficiencie even beyond all measure The Tradition of the present Church must first give her voyce Ergo nisi homini placuerit Scriptura non erit verbum Dei Therfore except it please man the Scripture shall not be the word of God Onely herein you goe beyond the Roman Senate for their Decree for the admiting of a God was by the generall voyce of all the Senators But yours is here from the sole and single Oracle of the Church of England The Chaire of Canterbury 'T is enough that you tell us with an if if the Scripture be Sibi ad omnia then to this to prove it selfe at least after Tradition hath prepared us to receive it Otherwise never talke of Fathers Authority all is in vaine The Scripture cannot be beleeved to be the word of God unlesse The Tradition of the Present Church prepare the way to receive it And at least you say which is no small deminution of the Sâ—riptures selfe-sufficiencie which you put with an if at least But of this sufficiently But let 's heare your Reasons further for your Tradition The Scripture Say you is deep and may be drawn into different sences and so mistaken that any man will presume upon his own strength and goe single without the Church So it seemeth your Articles of Religion are deepe as which not onely may be but are drawne into different sences and so mistaken and that by the presumption of one mans strength going single without the Church But for the Scripture though it be deep yet it affords us both line and Bucket sufficient to draw water out of those wellâ— of Salvation and so to give us a full tast whereby to relish and resent whose word it is except the Tradition and Authority of your present Church doe cut off our line and breake our Bucket The Scripture hath both Milke for Babes and strong Meat for Men. In the Sea both the Elephant may swim as AUG and GREG. saith and the Lamb wade and when it is by unstable men wrested and drawn into different sences and so mistaken yet it remaines the
same unchangable truth still and hath in it sufficient evidence both to reconcile those differences and to convince the gainsayer 'T is true Let no man presume upon his owne strength for the secret of the Lord is with them that feare him Whaâ— was the cause then that you have all along your Booke as in part hath been shewed so perverted the Scriptures was it not because you took not with you for your guide the Tradition of the present Church And was not this then a prusuming upon your own strength when you goe so solely and singly to worke But what meane you by going single without the Church The not consulting the Prelates Or because the Papists object as you The Scriptures are deep and darke therfore we must in all things take the present Church Tradition in our way where it may be bad and be guided by that as by Ariadnees Thread through those manyfold Meanders of that intricate Labyrinth the Scripture as you make it Or that you meane by Church Tradition the Authority of the present Church of England as one with that Church whereof none is and that this Authority must needs proceede and like a Candle before the Sun at noon-day as before shew us the way to know the Scripture to be the word of God if we be willing to shut our eyes and blindfold to be led by the Traditionall Authority of this your Church what know we but by such Authority you may tell us puting the â—ible clasped into our hands All that is cantained within those claspes is the word of God This you may be sure of you have Authority for it you need goe no further And all your Bibles of your present Church of England being by expresse Charge bound with the Apocrypha so as they are punished that doe it not all the Books forfeited which may breed an opinion in the people that those Bookes also are a part of the word of God If now one hereupon opening the Bible and lighting upon either that ridiculous tale of Tobies Dog or that of the Angel who tells Tobiaâ— that he is his kinsman and of the Smoke of the Fishes Liver that drives away the Devill or of Razis killing of himselfe and commended for it by the writer of the Books of the Maccabees or that of the same Authors doubting whether he hath done well or no in writing that Story and the like he may possibly by this meanes be brought to think meanely of the Scriptures and that they are not the word of God because he finds such things in the Bible so as it is bound as are ridiculous false vaine impious and uncertaine whether the rest be done as it should be c. And thus by your Apocrypha delivered into his hand by the Authority and Tradition of your present Church he is brought to beleeve that either the Scriptures of thaâ— Old and New Testament are not the word of God as wherwith those Apocryphall Books are equally bound in all Bibles or else that such Tradition of the present Church it little to be regarded while pretending to lead men to the beliefe of the Scriptures to be the word of God there is no more difference made between them and the Apocrypha so full of vain lyes and ridiculous tales And perhaps you may come in also as Time and Plaâ—e will permit with your Verbum Dei non scriptum to boot the word of God not written of which you tell us before agreeing therein with Bellarmine And at last when your Tradition and Authority hath sufficiently prepared the way you will perhaps bring in your Traditions Apostolicke accompanied with the Decretalls of Gratian which your Sister Church of Rome equall with the 4 Euangelists But however were it for nothing else but to maintaine the credit of your present Church Tradition and Authority in commending to men the Scripture to be the word of God you might doe well to take away your Apocrypha which your Zeale will have placed in the midst between the two Testaments not suffering any Bibles to be bound without it which is as one saith as a Blakamore placed between two pure unspotted Virgins Nor doe I think that your Lordship so placeth your Blackamore as Ladyes put a black patch upon their Cheek or Chin as a foyle to make them seem more fayre so you to make the Scriptures the more lovely and desireable or the better to be known as things by their contraries as white by blacke or the straight by the crooked or truth by error standing near it And though Hierome who excludes the Apocrypha out of the Canon of Scripture saith they may be read ad morum institutionem non ad confirmationem Fidei for instruction of manners and not for confirmation of faith yet considering both the fooleries and falsities and vanities and commended impieties and confessed uncertainties in them as aforesayd all these things put together might be me thinks of sufficient strength to thrust out that Blackamore by the head and shoulders from betweene those two fayre and unspotted Virgins L. ibid. It is most reasonable that Theology should be allowed to have some Principles as well as other Sciences which she proves not but presupposes And the chiefest of these is That the Scriptures are of Divine Authority P. How Is the chiefest of these Principles allowed to Theologie This That the Scriptures are of Divine Authority Doe you not forget Tradition now Doe you not reckon that for the first and so the chiefest as without which the other cannot be granted Or perhaps you doe not reckon your Tradition or Authority of the present Church to be a Principle of Theology What then Perhaps of Muthology the science of setting forth Fables Or of Buttologie the science of much babble to no purpose Or Argologie the science of vaine and frivolous talke Or Carphologie a gathering of Chaffe as if you would by the heape of Chaffe shew us where the Wheat is Onely your Tradition is no Principle of Theologie and therfore a heape of chaffe wherein there is not one grain of the pure corn But let us come to see what is most reasonable It is most reasonable say you that Theologie should be alowed to have some Prinâ—iples as well as other Sciences which she proves not but presupposes And what is Theologie but the Scripture it selfe and the Doctrines therein contained And however it be with other Sciences which in comparison of Theologie are but imperfect and beggerly so as they have need to begge their a'itemata some Principles to be granted them as grounds to worke upon as the Mathematicks c. yet you might have given that honour to Queen Theologie to which all other Sciences are but handmaids as to exempt her from being a begger yea and of that too which is her own and in her own possession namely That the Scripture is the word of God This is one of Theologies prime Principles which