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sense_n faith_n reason_n true_a 3,392 5 5.0227 4 true
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A46981 Novelty represt, in a reply to Mr. Baxter's answer to William Johnson wherein the oecumenical power of the four first General Councils is vindicated, the authority of bishops asserted, the compleat hierarcy of church government established, his novel succession evacuated, and professed hereticks demonstrated to be no true parts of the visible Church of Christ / by William Johnson. Johnson, William, 1583-1663. 1661 (1661) Wing J861; ESTC R16538 315,558 588

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be_v one_o visible_a kingdom_n &_o yet_o to_o make_v it_o no_o more_o one_o visible_o than_o the_o school_n of_o christ-church_n or_o westminster_n be_v one_o visible_a school_n be_v in_o my_o logic_n to_o speak-contraries_a mr._n baxter_n num._n 100_o your_o next_o reason_n against_o i_o be_v because_o they_o can_v be_v part_n of_o the_o church_n unless_o arian_n and_o pelagian_o and_o donatist_n be_v part_n and_o so_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n be_v part_n reply_n 1._o you_o know_v sure_a that_o your_o own_o divine_n be_v not_o agree_v whether_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n be_v part_n of_o the_o church_n william_n johnson_n num._n 100_o you_o can_v but_o see_v i_o speak_v of_o part_n of_o the_o church_n as_o you_o understand_v part_n and_o therefore_o i_o say_v pag._n 48._o in_o you_o second_o your_o position_n be_v not_o true_a now_o your_o position_n be_v to_o hold_v that_o some_o heretic_n proper_o so_o call_v be_v part_n of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o unite_v to_o he_o as_o their_o head_n by_o reason_n that_o they_o believe_v with_o a_o true_a christian_a faith_n the_o essential_o of_o christianity_n whereby_o they_o be_v christian_n though_o they_o err_v in_o some_o accidental_n as_o appear_v by_o that_o distinction_n so_o often_o use_v by_o you_o in_o this_o sense_n then_o i_o say_v you_o hold_v heretic_n to_o be_v true_a and_o real_a part_n of_o the_o church_n and_o this_o i_o affirm_v to_o be_v contrary_a to_o all_o christianity_n and_o a_o novelty_n never_o hold_v before_o by_o any_o christian._n though_o therefore_o take_v the_o word_n part_n in_o another_o more_o lax_n and_o improper_a sense_n and_o the_o church_n as_o it_o be_v a_o visible_a body_n and_o government_n one_o only_o catholic_n author_n illius_fw-la author_n lib._n 2._o de_fw-fr haeret._n punit_fw-la c._n 24._o haereticus_fw-la etsi_fw-la per_fw-la haeresim_fw-la perdat_fw-la fidem_fw-la non_fw-la tamen_fw-la eo_fw-la ipso_fw-la est_fw-la prorsus_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la separatus_fw-la sed_fw-la adhuc_fw-la est_fw-la par●●_n illius_fw-la corporis_fw-la &_o membrum_fw-la ejus_fw-la etc._n etc._n et_fw-la infra_fw-la fa●●eor_fw-la quidem_fw-la &_o meo_fw-la quidem_fw-la judicio_fw-la negari_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la haereticum_fw-la esse_fw-la partem_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la &_o membrum_fw-la illius_fw-la &_o non_fw-la esse_fw-la omnino_fw-la ab_fw-la illâ_fw-la separatum_fw-la quia_fw-la etsi_fw-la fidem_fw-la non_fw-la habeat_fw-la habet_fw-la tamen_fw-la characterem_fw-la baptismalem_fw-la per_fw-la quem_fw-la primum_fw-la factum_fw-la est_fw-la membrum_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la qu●●_n durante_fw-la semper_fw-la erit_fw-la membrum_fw-la illius_fw-la alphonsus_n à_fw-fr castro_n think_v heretic_n may_v be_v call_v part_n of_o the_o politic_a body_n of_o the_o church_n as_o she_o have_v power_n over_o they_o to_o inflict_v punishment_n upon_o they_o by_o reason_n of_o the_o character_n of_o baptism_n which_o make_v they_o ever_o remain_v subject_n of_o the_o church_n and_o liable_a to_o her_o censure_n yet_o he_o hold_v express_o that_o they_o have_v no_o true_a christian_a faith_n at_o all_o quite_o against_o you_o whereby_o they_o can_v be_v make_v part_n of_o christ_n church_n unite_v to_o christ_n as_o their_o head_n as_o you_o hold_v they_o be_v and_o the_o like_a be_v of_o schismatic_n for_o though_o some_o catholic_n author_n be_v doubt_n whether_o they_o may_v be_v term_v by_o reason_n of_o the_o profession_n of_o christian_a faith_n part_n of_o the_o church_n in_o a_o large_a sense_n yet_o none_o ever_o hold_v as_o you_o do_v that_o they_o be_v unite_v to_o christ_n as_o their_o head_n and_o thereby_o compose_v one_o christian_a church_n with_o other_o catholic_n christian_n because_o they_o want_v that_o principal_a christian_a charity_n require_v as_o necessary_a to_o a_o complete_a union_n to_o christ._n your_o opinion_n therefore_o be_v contrary_a to_o all_o those_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o shall_v god_n assist_v i_o be_v part._n be_v see_v my_o second_n part._n prove_v contrary_a to_o all_o christian_n and_o christianity_n and_o of_o most_o dangerous_a and_o damnable_a consequence_n but_o you_o must_v know_v that_o à_fw-fr castro_n opinion_n be_v censure_v by_o all_o other_o doctor_n and_o thereby_o improbable_a nor_o yet_o make_v the_o ground_n of_o his_o opinion_n heretic_n and_o scismatic_o more_o of_o the_o catholic_n church_n then_o be_v those_o christian_n who_o be_v damn_v in_o hell_n for_o even_o they_o have_v the_o character_n of_o baptism_n and_o yet_o he_o say_v that_o so_o long_o as_o that_o character_n remain_v they_o be_v church-member_n quo_fw-la durante_fw-la semper_fw-la erit_fw-la membrum_fw-la illius_fw-la mr._n baxter_n num._n 101._o and_o if_o they_o be_v yet_o it_o be_v not_o the_o fide_fw-la with_o you_o as_o not_o determine_v by_o the_o pope_n william_n johnson_n num._n 101._o it_o be_v determine_v contrary_a to_o your_o sense_n a_o hundred_o time_n over_o by_o all_o the_o anathemas_n and_o excommunication_n thunder_v out_o against_o they_o in_o so_o many_o general_a council_n mr._n baxter_n num._n 102._o if_o it_o be_v then_o all_o you_o be_v heretic_n that_o be_v for_o the_o affirmative_a bellarmine_n name_v you_o some_o of_o they_o if_o they_o be_v not_o then_o how_o can_v you_o be_v sure_a it_o be_v true_a and_o so_o impose_v it_o on_o i_o that_o they_o be_v no_o part_n william_n johnson_n num._n 102._o i_o have_v now_o tell_v you_o none_o of_o we_o ever_o hold_v they_o part_n as_o you_o do_v that_o be_v unite_v to_o christ_n their_o head_n as_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o part_n be_v by_o faith_n and_o charity_n mr._n baxter_n num._n 103._o arian_n be_v no_o christian_n as_o deny_v that_o which_o be_v essential_a to_o christ_n and_o so_o to_o christianity_n william_n johnson_n num._n 103._o it_o be_v very_o true_a they_o be_v no_o real_a univocal_a christian_n and_o your_o reason_n be_v good_a because_o they_o deny_v 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pag._n 59_o and_o when_o i_o name_v the_o whole_a visible_a church_n p._n 60._o i_o make_v no_o translation_n of_o his_o word_n but_o deliver_v that_o which_o i_o think_v to_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o they_o to_o what_o you_o say_v there_o be_v a_o roman_a universality_n if_o you_o mean_v that_o those_o who_o be_v under_o the_o sole_a roman_a empire_n with_o exclusion_n of_o all_o extra-imperial_a church_n communicate_v with_o they_o be_v call_v ancient_o the_o universal_a church_n or_o the_o universality_n of_o christian_n you_o be_v much_o deceive_v where_o prove_v you_o that_o if_o as_o unite_v with_o they_o and_o give_v the_o denomination_n to_o the_o whole_a it_o be_v true_a and_o confirm_v what_o i_o say_v now_o to_o show_v that_o valentinian_n mean_v by_o universality_n not_o those_o of_o the_o roman_a empire_n exclusive_o to_o all_o other_o he_o join_v to_o universality_n ubique_fw-la for_o than_o say_v he_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n will_v be_v keep_v every_o where_o 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neither_o know_v nor_o believe_v distinct_o or_o express_o yet_o they_o be_v know_v or_o believe_v in_o confuso_fw-la confuse_o and_o implicit_o by_o the_o knowledge_n or_o belief_n of_o their_o general_a proposition_n 8._o why_o misconceive_v you_o the_o notion_n of_o implicit_a faith_n it_o be_v not_o as_o you_o conceit_n therefore_o no_o faith_n at_o all_o of_o all_o the_o particular_n in_o scripture_n because_o he_o who_o have_v it_o understand_v not_o distinct_o many_o truth_n contain_v in_o scripture_n for_o a_o christian_a have_v implicit_a faith_n because_o such_o determinate_a truth_n be_v the_o facto_fw-la contain_v in_o scripture_n by_o believe_v all_o that_o be_v contain_v therein_o he_o believe_v confuse_o or_o implicit_o every_o one_o of_o the_o say_a truth_n though_o he_o have_v not_o distinct_a knowledge_n of_o many_o of_o they_o 9_o but_o most_o of_o all_o i_o wonder_v why_o you_o take_v my_o second_o answer_n in_o a_o quite_o other_o sense_n than_o i_o intend_v it_o 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out_o of_o your_o doctrine_n whosoever_o believe_v all_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v or_o all_o that_o be_v in_o canonical_a scripture_n believe_v no_o one_o particular_a point_n contain_v confuse_o in_o those_o proposition_n which_o he_o understand_v not_o with_o a_o actual_a understanding_n in_o particular_a to_o be_v reveal_v far_o than_o as_o contain_v in_o those_o proposition_n this_o be_v your_o doctrine_n now_o i_o subsume_v but_o no_o man_n know_v all_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v to_o wit_n with_o that_o actual_a understanding_n of_o every_o particular_a require_v by_o you_o immediate_o before_o as_o be_v above_o explicate_v this_o minor_a be_v you_o ergo_fw-la say_n i_o no_o man_n believe_v all_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v now_o i_o proceed_v if_o no_o man_n believe_v all_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v than_o you_o believe_v not_o all_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v this_o be_v evident_a then_o further_o whosoever_o belieu_v not_o all_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v be_v no_o good_a christian_n nor_o in_o state_n of_o salvation_n but_o you_o believe_v not_o all_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v ergo_fw-la you_o be_v no_o good_a christian_n nor_o in_o state_n of_o salvation_n see_v you_o not_o how_o fair_a a_o thread_n you_o have_v spin_v against_o yourself_o or_o will_v you_o say_v that_o he_o who_o believe_v not_o all_o which_o god_n have_v reveal_v be_v a_o good_a christian_a if_o you_o will_v you_o may_v but_o sure_o if_o you_o do_v so_o no_o good_a christian_n will_v believe_v you_o and_o that_o you_o may_v see_v how_o far_o you_o be_v out_o in_o assert_v this_o that_o one_o can_v true_o believe_v what_o he_o understand_v not_o actual_o and_o in_o particular_a or_o no_o far_a than_o as_o the_o particular_n be_v contain_v in_o that_o universal_a proposition_n i_o believe_v all_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v or_o that_o be_v in_o scripture_n when_o you_o recite_v the_o nicene_n creed_n wherein_o you_o profess_v to_o believe_v that_o god_n be_v creator_n 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we_o all_o man_n be_v to_o stand_v before_o the_o tribunal_n of_o christ_n etc._n etc._n shall_v we_o say_v that_o st._n paul_n believe_v not_o as_o he_o profess_v to_o believe_v act_v 24.5_o 14._o credens_fw-fr omnibus_fw-la quae_fw-la in_o lege_fw-la &_o prophetis_fw-la scripta_fw-la sunt_fw-la yet_o can_v we_o suppose_v that_o he_o have_v then_o a_o actual_a understanding_n of_o every_o particular_a contain_v in_o they_o ii_o and_o that_o you_o may_v see_v by_o instance_n how_o untrue_a your_o assertion_n be_v a_o christian_n i_o suppose_v have_v by_o vincible_a or_o culpable_a oblivion_n forget_v some_o grievous_a sin_n of_o his_o life_n past_a he_o come_v to_o the_o point_n of_o death_n he_o be_v hearty_o sorrowful_a even_o for_o the_o pure_a love_n of_o god_n for_o all_o his_o sin_n commit_v against_o the_o law_n of_o god_n without_o any_o actual_a remembrance_n or_o understanding_n of_o that_o forget_a sin_n and_o so_o die_v must_v not_o one_o say_v in_o your_o principle_n 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of_o all_o that_o ever_o god_n reveal_v to_o they_o and_o within_o three_o or_o four_o line_n you_o say_v absolute_o and_o without_o all_o exception_n no_o man_n know_v all_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v first_o you_o say_v all_o man_n or_o most_o at_o least_o have_v be_v sinful_o negligent_a in_o search_v after_o and_o receive_v truth_n and_o within_o a_o line_n or_o two_o you_o leave_v out_o your_o restriction_n and_o say_v no_o man_n know_v all_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v or_o that_o he_o ought_v to_o know_v 13._o i_o will_v know_v the_o reason_n why_o you_o first_o suppose_v your_o principle_n that_o no_o man_n can_v believe_v all_o unless_o he_o actual_o know_v all_o and_o thence_o infer_v against_o i_o that_o in_o my_o principle_n who_o deny_v that_o of_o you_o i_o can_v know_v who_o be_v who_o be_v not_o of_o my_o church_n because_o i_o can_v know_v what_o reason_n any_o particular_a have_v have_v to_o know_v more_o or_o few_o divine_a truth_n or_o whether_o they_o have_v 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that_o be_v do_v you_o have_v answer_v your_o own_o fallacy_n not_o my_o proposition_n whence_o appear_v the_o vanity_n of_o your_o instance_n in_o a_o politic_a body_n without_o accident_n for_o those_o thing_n which_o christ_n institute_v to_o be_v as_o thing_n temporary_a or_o for_o a_o time_n not_o for_o ever_o be_v accident_n as_o some_o ceremony_n in_o his_o last_o supper_n the_o wash_n of_o foot_n and_o other_o matter_n belong_v to_o the_o order_n and_o decency_n as_o different_a circumstance_n require_v in_o the_o church_n which_o by_o christ_n institution_n be_v leave_v to_o the_o direction_n of_o the_o church_n be_v accident_n to_o the_o church_n so_o that_o i_o say_v not_o nor_o ever_o say_v that_o christ_n have_v institute_v a_o politic_a body_n without_o accident_n as_o you_o misconceiving_o accuse_v i_o but_o that_o whatsoever_o he_o institute_v to_o be_v ever_o in_o his_o church_n be_v none_o of_o those_o accident_n you_o shall_v do_v well_o to_o reflect_v more_o 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from_o their_o catechuman_n even_o purposely_o hide_v the_o mystery_n of_o the_o eucharist_n as_o proper_a to_o the_o church_n to_o understand_v and_o never_o open_v it_o to_o the_o auditor_n till_o they_o be_v baptise_a this_o be_v most_o undeniable_a in_o the_o concurrent_a vote_n of_o the_o ancient_n i_o think_v therefore_o that_o it_o follow_v that_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n the_o eucharist_n be_v but_o of_o the_o integrity_n and_o not_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o acknowledgement_n of_o it_o by_o all_o the_o member_n a_o thing_n that_o never_o be_v existent_a johnson_n num._n 9_o here_o you_o commit_v another_o fallacy_n proceed_v à_fw-la sensu_fw-la conjuncto_fw-la ad_fw-la sensum_fw-la divisum_fw-la i_o affirm_v no_o more_o then_o that_o the_o assembly_n or_o congregation_n which_o be_v the_o church_n ed●●tion_n see_v p._n 30._o bax._n ed●●tion_n have_v this_o acknowledgement_n and_o you_o argue_v against_o i_o as_o if_o i_o say_v every_o particular_a member_n of_o the_o church_n be_v oblige_v to_o have_v that_o actual_a express_a acknowledgement_n know_v you_o not_o that_o many_o thing_n be_v necessary_a to_o the_o whole_a politic_a body_n conjunctive_o which_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o every_o part_n of_o it_o separate_v whence_o your_o instance_n of_o the_o eucharist_n be_v answer_v for_o though_o that_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o be_v express_o believe_v by_o every_o christian_a necessitate_v nudii_fw-la yet_o it_o be_v essential_o necessary_a to_o the_o whole_a church_n you_o misconceive_v therefore_o very_o much_o in_o say_v the_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o the_o belief_n if_o you_o mean_v explicit_a belief_n of_o the_o eucharist_n be_v essential_o necessary_a to_o all_o and_o every_o one_o of_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n for_o i_o neither_o propound_v that_o the_o express_a belief_n either_o of_o the_o eucharist_n or_o the_o pope_n supremacy_n be_v essential_o necessary_a to_o every_o christian_a but_o to_o
7._o bernard_n lutsemburg_n de_fw-fr albigens_n vide_fw-la etiam_fw-la s._n anton._n 4_o parte_fw-la summae_fw-la tit._n 11_o c._n 7._o the_o one_o good_a and_o the_o other_o evil_n with_o the_o manichee_n who_o deny_v 1._o the_o old_a testament_n 2._o that_o baptism_n profit_v infant_n to_o salvation_n 3._o that_o a_o unworthy_a minister_n can_v consecrate_v the_o holy_a sacrament_n 4._o that_o wicked_a prelate_n have_v any_o ecclesiastical_a jurisdiction_n or_o be_v to_o be_v obey_v 5._o that_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o swear_v in_o any_o occasion_n whatsoever_o etc._n etc._n then_o with_o alexander_n the_o three_o who_o no_o christian_n in_o those_o time_n ever_o accuse_v of_o heresy_n or_o error_n in_o faith_n who_o be_v elect_v against_o his_o will_n and_o after_o a_o schism_n make_v by_o octavianus_n the_o antipope_n and_o frederick_n the_o emperor_n be_v receive_v both_o by_o the_o western_a and_o eastern_a church_n except_v only_o the_o party_n of_o frederick_n who_o notwithstanding_o after_o acknowledge_v he_o and_o relinquish_v octavianus_n the_o antipope_n and_o whatsoever_o latter_a historian_n relate_v by_o hear-say_n suâ_fw-la acta_fw-la alex●●nd_n 3._o ap_fw-mi romuald_a episcop_n salern_n in_o svo_fw-la chronico_fw-la &_o ap_fw-mi rogerium_n in_o epist._n alexand_n &_o in_o histor._n suâ_fw-la of_o the_o insult_a of_o this_o pope_n over_o that_o emperor_n yet_o those_o who_o record_v what_o pass_v before_o their_o eye_n in_o the_o time_n of_o alexander_n record_v nothing_o but_o what_o become_v a_o modest_a and_o christian_a prelate_n of_o his_o eminency_n baxter_n num._n 87_o the_o religion_n of_o all_o these_o man_n be_v one_o and_o they_o be_v all_o of_o one_o universal_a church_n johnson_n num._n 87._o this_o be_v your_o grand_a novelty_n at_o which_o i_o chief_o aim_v in_o this_o answer_n it_o be_v not_o easy_a to_o conjecture_v what_o you_o mean_v by_o all_o these_o man_n whether_o the_o iconoclast_n berengarian_o waldensian_o albigenses_n wickliffist_n hussites_n lutheran_n calvinist_n which_o you_o name_v in_o the_o end_n of_o pag._n 105._o and_o again_o pag._n 106._o in_o your_o edit_n or_o those_o who_o i_o name_v pag._n 43._o of_o your_o book_n that_o be_v all_o at_o least_o among_o they_o who_o you_o account_v univocal_a christian_n among_o which_o be_v donatist_n nestorian_n eutychian_o pelagian_o and_o can_v you_o or_o do_v yet_o ever_o any_o christian_a before_o you_o account_v these_o man_n to_o have_v have_v one_o religion_n be_v the_o religion_n of_o those_o who_o say_v there_o be_v two_o god_n the_o same_o with_o that_o which_o teach_v there_o be_v no_o more_o but_o one_o only_a god_n if_o so_o than_o heathen_n and_o christian_n may_v be_v as_o well_o of_o one_o religion_n if_o not_o then_o can_v not_o at_o least_o the_o albigenses_n be_v of_o one_o religion_n with_o the_o rest_n supra_fw-la vide_fw-la supra_fw-la who_o i_o have_v prove_v to_o have_v hold_v two_o god_n of_o the_o rest_n more_o hereafter_o baxte_v num._n 88_o where_o you_o again_o call_v for_o one_o congregation_n i_o tell_v you_o again_o that_o we_o know_v no_o unity_n essential_a from_o whence_o the_o church_n can_v be_v call_v one_o but_o either_o christ_n or_o the_o vice-christ_n the_o former_a only_o be_v assert_v by_o we_o and_o the_o latter_a also_o by_o you_o which_o we_o deny_v and_o therefore_o we_o can_v call_v the_o universal_a church_n one_o in_o any_o other_o formal_a respect_n but_o as_o it_o be_v christian_a and_o so_o one_o in_o christ._n johnson_n num._n 88_o we_o acknowledge_v the_o church_n to_o be_v one_o in_o christ_n as_o much_o as_o you_o but_o we_o acknowledge_v he_o as_o head_n not_o to_o be_v the_o formal_a but_o the_o causal_a unity_n that_o be_v work_v the_o formal_a unity_n to_o wit_n faith_n and_o charity_n in_o his_o church_n it_o be_v not_o enough_o to_o make_v one_o live_v organical_a body_n that_o there_o be_v one_o head_n and_o part_n but_o those_o part_n must_v be_v 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be_v scarce_o fair_a pardon_v this_o plainness_n consider_v of_o it_o yourself_o the_o substance_n of_o nilus_n book_n be_v about_o the_o primacy_n of_o the_o pope_n the_o very_a content_n prefix_v to_o the_o first_o book_n be_v these_o oratio_fw-la demonstrans_fw-la non_fw-la aliam_fw-la etc._n etc._n a_o oration_n demonstrate_v that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o cause_n of_o dissension_n between_o the_o latin_a and_o the_o greek_a church_n then_o that_o the_o pope_n refuse_v to_o defer_v the_o cognisance_n and_o judgement_n of_o that_o which_o be_v controvert_v to_o a_o general_n council_n but_o he_o will_v sit_v the_o sole_a master_n and_o judge_n of_o the_o controversy_n and_o will_v have_v the_o rest_n as_o disciple_n to_o be_v hearer_n of_o or_o obey_v his_o word_n which_o be_v a_o thing_n alien_n from_o the_o law_n and_o action_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o father_n and_o he_o begin_v his_o book_n after_o a_o few_o word_n thus_o causa_fw-la itaque_fw-la huius_fw-la dissidii_fw-la 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subject_n be_v about_o the_o pope_n primacy_n may_v he_o not_o ex_fw-la incidente_fw-la and_o occasionaliter_fw-la treat_v other_o matter_n be_v not_o your_o chief_a matter_n in_o this_o treatise_n to_o prove_v the_o succession_n of_o your_o church_n and_o oppose_v we_o and_o yet_o treat_v you_o not_o in_o this_o very_a place_n incidental_o the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n i_o say_v then_o that_o nilus_n declare_v the_o cause_n why_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n have_v lose_v all_o that_o primacy_n and_o authority_n which_o he_o have_v ancient_o by_o reason_n he_o be_v fall_v from_o the_o faith_n in_o add_v filioque_fw-la to_o the_o creed_n and_o teach_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v from_o the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n the_o word_n you_o cite_v out_o of_o nilus_n prove_v nothing_o he_o pretend_v indeed_o that_o the_o cause_n of_o the_o present_a dissension_n be_v the_o pope_n challenge_v so_o high_a a_o primacy_n which_o they_o be_v unwilling_a as_o all_o schismatics_n ever_o be_v to_o grant_v he_o but_o that_o may_v well_o stand_v with_o what_o i_o affirm_v he_o to_o say_v that_o the_o first_o original_a cause_n of_o the_o breach_n betwixt_o the_o greek_n and_o latin_n be_v the_o add_v of_o filioque_fw-la and_o hold_v the_o holy_a ghost_n procession_n from_o the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n but_o see_v you_o not_o how_o fair_a a_o thread_n you_o have_v spin_v by_o press_v those_o word_n as_o you_o do_v against_o i_o be_v there_o indeed_o no_o other_o cause_n of_o dissension_n betwixt_o the_o greek_a and_o latin_a church_n nor_o ground_n of_o their_o breach_n save_v the_o pope_n supremacy_n then_o sure_o there_o be_v a_o full_a agreement_n in_o all_o other_o thing_n if_o so_o there_o be_v a_o main_a disagree_v betwixt_o you_o and_o the_o greek_n in_o all_o other_o point_n of_o faith_n controvert_v betwixt_o you_o and_o we_o for_o if_o they_o agree_v with_o we_o they_o disagree_v from_o you_o in_o every_o one_o of_o they_o nay_o you_o 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emperor_n style_v monomachos_n aspire_v not_o only_o in_o name_n and_o title_n as_o many_o of_o his_o predecessor_n have_v do_v before_o he_o but_o in_o reality_n and_o effect_n to_o be_v universal_a patriarch_n proclaim_v leo_n and_o all_o the_o latin_n who_o adhere_v to_o he_o to_o be_v excommunicate_v because_o contrary_a to_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o ephesine_n council_n they_o have_v make_v a_o addition_n to_o the_o creed_n so_o that_o the_o roman_a bishop_n be_v pretend_v by_o the_o greek_n to_o be_v thereby_o depose_v from_o his_o sea_n the_o primacy_n of_o the_o church_n fall_v by_o course_n and_o right_a upon_o he_o as_o be_v the_o next_o patriarch_n after_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n which_o give_v occasion_n to_o nilus_n of_o acknowledge_v that_o controversy_n about_o the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o have_v be_v the_o first_o occasion_n of_o
patent_n and_o commission_n immediate_o from_o the_o king_n subject_a to_o the_o general_a in_o order_n to_o their_o respective_a command_n but_o be_v as_o true_o officer_n of_o the_o king_n as_o the_o general_n be_v nor_o can_v the_o general_n displace_v any_o of_o they_o at_o his_o pleasure_n as_o the_o king_n can_v do_v though_o he_o have_v power_n to_o command_v they_o upon_o the_o king_n service_n or_o to_o correct_v punish_v or_o displace_v they_o when_o they_o give_v sufficient_a cause_n for_o that_o be_v also_o belong_v to_o the_o king_n service_n now_o you_o have_v not_o consideration_n enough_o to_o see_v this_o difference_n it_o be_v not_o some_o will_v say_v for_o want_v of_o ignorance_n now_o if_o we_o take_v the_o word_n universal_a in_o the_o malignant_a signification_n it_o will_v follow_v that_o if_o such_o a_o universal_a bishop_n fall_v the_o church_n fall_v with_o he_o because_o there_o will_v be_v no_o other_o true_a pastor_n to_o maintain_v she_o in_o the_o truth_n through_o the_o whole_a church_n the_o rest_n be_v not_o absolute_a pastor_n but_o his_o officer_n 50._o page_n 257._o be_v spend_v in_o recite_v st._n gregory_n execration_n against_o the_o title_n of_o universal_a which_o touch_v not_o our_o controversy_n 51._o page_n 258._o whether_o your_o reply_n or_o bellar._n answer_v be_v more_o miserable_a i_o leave_v to_o the_o reader_n he_o speak_v of_o a_o vicar_n to_o sinful_a man_n and_o you_o answer_v it_o be_v no_o indignity_n to_o a_o bishop_n to_o be_v a_o vicar_n of_o christ_n the_o eternal_a god_n next_o you_o equivocate_v again_o numb_a 2._o the_o question_n be_v not_o what_o john_n think_v or_o pretend_v by_o that_o title_n who_o can_v prove_v or_o disprove_v evident_o what_o be_v his_o secret_a thought_n but_o what_o st._n gregory_n express_v himself_o to_o judge_v of_o his_o pretence_n either_o what_o he_o do_v think_v or_o probable_o speak_v might_n be_v judge_v to_o think_v by_o assume_v that_o title_n now_o that_o st._n gregory_n think_v such_o to_o be_v johns_n pretension_n by_o that_o title_n be_v out_o of_o question_n 52._o page_n 258.259_o num_fw-la 3._o you_o make_v pope_n gregory_n his_o exceed_v in_o censure_n of_o johns_n pretension_n in_o assume_v that_o title_n and_o thereby_o take_v away_o all_o force_n from_o those_o very_a citation_n which_o you_o cite_v against_o we_o so_o strong_a a_o disputant_n be_v you_o against_o yourself_o why_o shall_v you_o think_v groundless_a discourse_n shall_v be_v of_o any_o force_n against_o your_o adversary_n nay_o you_o be_v so_o favourable_a to_o st._n john_n and_o so_o froward_a to_o st._n gregory_n that_o you_o make_v the_o one_o pretend_v no_o far_o then_o to_o a_o precedency_n of_o place_n before_o all_o other_o bishop_n which_o he_o have_v before_o in_o relation_n to_o all_o save_v only_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n so_o that_o it_o be_v not_o in_o reality_n a_o subjection_n of_o all_o the_o member_n of_o christ_n to_o he_o which_o he_o seek_v by_o that_o title_n suppose_v that_o it_o include_v no_o more_o than_o a_o primacy_n of_o order_n or_o precedency_n but_o that_o he_o seek_v only_o by_o that_o title_n have_v before_o precedency_n before_o all_o the_o rest_n to_o obtain_v precedency_n before_o one_o more_o than_o he_o have_v that_o be_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o for_o st._n gregory_n you_o make_v he_o a_o arrant_a liar_n for_o he_o say_v neither_o himself_n nor_o any_o of_o his_o predecessor_n ever_o accept_v of_o that_o proud_a title_n and_o yet_o if_o it_o be_v no_o more_o but_o a_o supremacy_n of_o place_n before_o all_o &_o not_o a_o universal_a government_n as_o you_o say_v here_o it_o be_v not_o you_o your_o self_n acknowledge_v that_o he_o and_o all_o his_o predecessor_n at_o least_o since_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a accept_v of_o it_o nay_o you_o will_v make_v st._n gregory_n speak_v absurd_o and_o ridiculous_o in_o inveigh_v so_o earnest_o against_o john_n of_o constantinople_n as_o a_o forerunner_n of_o antichrist_n a_o profane_a person_n a_o destroyer_n of_o episcopal_a dignity_n etc._n etc._n for_o have_v pretend_v no_o more_o than_o to_o take_v place_n of_o the_o pope_n whereas_o you_o say_v here_o the_o pope_n have_v then_o no_o rite_n to_o nor_o possession_n in_o that_o precedency_n of_o place_n but_o only_o strive_v for_o it_o and_o why_o then_o may_v not_o john_n strive_v also_o fort_n against_o he_o without_o blasphemy_n or_o anti-christanism_a what_o say_v you_o of_o the_o greek_n refuse_v to_o have_v the_o universal_a government_n of_o the_o church_n i_o have_v above_o confute_v out_o of_o hieremius_fw-la against_o the_o lutheran_n 53._o page_n 259._o the_o text_n you_o urge_v prove_v no_o more_o than_o the_o former_a and_o show_v the_o truth_n of_o my_o answer_n the_o like_a be_v of_o page_n 260._o that_o title_n as_o subject_v all_o christ_n member_n to_o one_o as_o their_o universal_a bishop_n as_o though_o they_o have_v no_o other_o bishop_n nor_o true_a pastor_n but_o he_o be_v as_o manifest_o against_o christ_n as_o if_o a_o general_n shall_v subject_v all_o the_o soldier_n and_o officer_n under_o he_o as_o if_o he_o be_v their_o sole_a commander_n by_o immediate_a commission_n from_o the_o king_n and_o the_o rest_n by_o commission_n from_o he_o will_v be_v against_o the_o king_n 54._o page_n 261._o the_o word_n you_o urge_v do_v manifest_o illustrate_v my_o interpretation_n of_o st._n gregory_n when_o he_o say_v et_fw-la solus_fw-la omnibus_fw-la praeesse_fw-la videretur_fw-la for_o in_o our_o opinion_n it_o be_v not_o true_a that_o the_o pope_n solus_fw-la omnibus_fw-la praeest_fw-la be_v alone_a above_o all_o for_o all_o christian_n have_v some_o other_o above_o they_o then_o the_o pope_n as_o he_o be_v supreme_a governor_n of_o the_o church_n videlicet_fw-la their_o respective_a bishop_n and_o pastor_n but_o in_o the_o sense_n st._n gregory_n speak_v of_o the_o universal_a bishop_n only_o be_v above_o all_o there_o be_v not_o other_o but_o such_o as_o have_v their_o authority_n from_o he_o and_o govern_v as_o his_o officer_n in_o his_o place_n and_o by_o his_o authority_n 55._o page_n 261._o your_o first_o reply_n to_o bellarm._n be_v now_o answer_v it_o be_v but_o two_o deacon_n three_o leaf_n of_o and_o now_o it_o be_v two_o or_o three_o they_o will_v increase_v in_o time_n like_o falstaf_n blade_n in_o buckerome_n the_o father_n of_o the_o council_n call_v he_o not_o only_a head_n or_o head-bishop_n as_o london_n be_v call_v the_o head_n city_n but_o they_o call_v he_o their_o head_n and_o themselves_o the_o member_n of_o that_o body_n whereof_o he_o be_v head_n and_o say_v that_o he_o govern_v they_o as_o the_o head_n govern_v the_o member_n tu_fw-la sicut_fw-la caput_fw-la membris_fw-la prae_fw-la eras_fw-la ut_fw-la supra_fw-la to_o number_v the_o three_o p._n 262._o it_o be_v first_o two_o then_o on_o the_o other_o side_n of_o the_o leaf_n it_o increase_v to_o two_o or_o three_o deacon_n who_o offer_v st._n leo_n this_o title_n and_o without_o the_o council_n approbation_n and_o on_o this_o side_n it_o be_v the_o whole_a council_n according_a to_o st._n gregory_n who_o word_n you_o cite_v against_o we_o and_o therefore_o must_v esteem_v they_o true_a which_o consist_v of_o thrice_o 200_o bishop_n falstaf_v bounce_v buckerome_n be_v nothing_o to_o this_o increase_n next_o you_o fall_v into_o a_o fallacy_n ex_fw-la insufficiente_a enumeratione_n partium_fw-la it_o be_v neither_o in_o the_o sense_n now_o explicate_v he_o think_v it_o be_v offer_v by_o the_o council_n nor_o as_o he_o be_v episcopus_fw-la primae_fw-la sedis_fw-la bishop_n of_o the_o first_o sea_n in_o your_o sense_n i._n e._n the_o first_o in_o place_n order_n or_o precedency_n only_o but_o as_o it_o signify_v the_o supreme_a bishop_n who_o govern_v all_o other_o bishop_n though_o they_o be_v as_o true_a and_o proper_a governor_n of_o their_o respective_a flock_n as_o he_o be_v of_o his_o which_o immediate_a power_n and_o 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fly_v from_o and_o not_o the_o universal_a that_o prove_v they_o not_o out_o of_o the_o universal_a church_n who_o say_v it_o do_v why_o interlace_v you_o such_o parergon_n as_o those_o treat_v bell._n here_o of_o any_o particular_a fold_n speak_v he_o not_o express_o of_o the_o whole_a universal_a church_n which_o he_o define_v cap._n two_o but_o by_o the_o rule_n of_o contrary_n you_o shall_v affirm_v here_o against_o yourself_o that_o if_o all_o heretic_n fly_v from_o the_o universal_a church_n they_o can_v be_v in_o the_o universal_a church_n now_o it_o be_v most_o evident_a that_o all_o heretic_n fly_v from_o the_o universal_a church_n ergo_fw-la none_o of_o they_o can_v be_v in_o the_o universal_a church_n for_o therefore_o be_v they_o heretic_n because_o they_o either_o reject_v obstinate_o some_o doctrine_n sufficient_o propound_v to_o they_o as_o teach_v by_o the_o universal_a church_n to_o be_v a_o point_n of_o christian_a faith_n or_o embrace_v some_o doctrine_n sufficient_o propound_v to_o they_o to_o be_v reject_v by_o the_o universal_a church_n as_o a_o error_n in_o christian_a faith_n de_fw-fr eccles._n l._n 3._o c._n 2._o next_o you_o bring_v in_o bellar._n thus_o and_o bellar._n say_v of_o the_o catechumenis_fw-la &_o excommunicatis_fw-la that_o they_o be_v de_fw-fr anima_fw-la etsi_fw-la non_fw-la de_fw-la corpore_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la now_o who_o can_v understand_v by_o those_o word_n of_o you_o but_o that_o bellar._n teach_v absolute_o that_o both_o all_o as_o well_o excommunicati_fw-la as_o catechumeni_fw-la be_v de_fw-fr anima_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la of_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o church_n whereas_o he_o speak_v only_o sub_fw-la conditione_n conditional_o not_o absolute_o and_o so_o of_o some_o excommunicate_a person_n but_o not_o of_o all_o that_o be_v such_o as_o he_o declare_v himself_o c._n 6._o sect_n respondeo_fw-la lucem_fw-la esse_fw-la etc._n etc._n have_v faith_n and_o charity_n as_o be_v either_o unjust_o excommunicate_v or_o repent_v before_o they_o be_v absolute_o absolve_v by_o the_o church_n from_o excommunication_n bellar._n word_n cap._n 2._o clip_v off_o in_o the_o midst_n by_o you_o be_v those_o rursum_fw-la aliqui_fw-la sunt_fw-la de_fw-la anima_fw-la &_o non_fw-fr de_fw-fr corpore_fw-la ut_fw-la catechumeni_fw-la vel_fw-la excommunicati_fw-la si_fw-la fidem_fw-la &_o charitatem_fw-la habeant_fw-la quod_fw-la fieri_fw-la potest_fw-la again_o say_v bell._n some_o be_v of_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o church_n and_o not_o of_o the_o body_n as_o be_v the_o unbaptised_a or_o excommunicate_a if_o they_o have_v faith_n and_o charity_n which_o may_v happen_v you_o see_v how_o candid_o you_o have_v proceed_v with_o bellarmine_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n and_o no_o other_o be_v canus_n to_o be_v understand_v who_o you_o cite_v next_o out_o of_o bellarmine_n and_o if_o you_o can_v prove_v any_o profess_a heretic_n proper_o so_o call_v have_v faith_n and_o charity_n i_o will_v acknowledge_v with_o bellar._n that_o they_o 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1._o st._n paul_n in_o his_o 3_o to_o titus_n v._o 10_o 11._o write_v thus_o a_o man_n that_o be_v a_o heretic_n after_o the_o first_o and_o second_o admonition_n reject_v know_v that_o he_o that_o be_v such_o be_v subvert_v and_o sin_v be_v condemn_v of_o himself_o thus_o you_o translate_v the_o word_n but_o the_o vulgar_a and_o pagninus_n have_v it_o devita_fw-la avoid_v or_o decline_v from_o it_o signify_v also_o in_o scapula_n to_o refugee_v remove_v or_o expel_v one_o from_o they_o where_o the_o apostle_n speak_v indefinite_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o all_o profess_a heretic_n proper_o so_o call_v so_o that_o all_o such_o heretic_n be_v to_o be_v avoid_v reject_v remove_v or_o expel_v from_o the_o community_n and_o society_n of_o all_o christian_n for_o the_o same_o reason_n which_o oblige_v titus_n to_o avoid_v they_o oblige_v all_o the_o faithful_a which_o be_v nothing_o but_o to_o be_v deprive_v of_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n and_o so_o even_o 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profess_a heretic_n or_o schismatic_n proper_o so_o call_v can_v so_o long_o as_o they_o remain_v in_o that_o state_n be_v true_a part_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n these_o follow_v i_o cite_v for_o a_o brief_a confirmation_n of_o this_o truth_n st._n aug._n de_fw-fr fide_fw-la &_o symbolo_fw-la c._n 10._o quapropter_fw-la nec_fw-la hereticus_fw-la pertinet_fw-la ad_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la catholicam_fw-la quoniam_fw-la diligit_fw-la deum_fw-la nec_fw-la schismaticus_fw-la quoniam_fw-la diligit_fw-la proximum_fw-la wherefore_o neither_o do_v a_o heretic_n belong_v to_o the_o catholic_n church_n because_o she_o the_o church_n love_v god_n nor_o a_o schismatic_n because_o she_o love_v her_o neighbour_n and_o optatus_n lib._n 1._o cont_n parmenianum_n address_v himself_o to_o the_o donatist_n who_o you_o say_v be_v not_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n say_v thus_o desertâ_fw-la matre_fw-la catholica_fw-la impii_fw-la silij_fw-la dum_fw-la for_o as_o excurrunt_fw-la &_o se_fw-la separant_fw-la ut_fw-la vos_fw-la fecistis_fw-la à_fw-la radice_fw-la matris_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la invidiae_fw-la
themselves_o to_o christ_n manner_n of_o government_n they_o virtual_o subject_v themselves_o to_o a_o chief_a pastor_n mr._n baxter_n if_o it_o be_v necessary_a that_o a_o particular_a church_n must_v be_v assign_v for_o such_o member_n by_o the_o supreme_a pastor_n than_o they_o be_v yet_o little_a the_o better_a that_o never_o have_v any_o assignation_n from_o he_o as_o few_o have_v rejoynder_n who_o say_v it_o be_v necessary_a ad_fw-la esse_fw-la to_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n that_o all_o assembly_n of_o christian_n shall_v be_v actual_a member_n of_o some_o particular_a visible_a church_n prove_v i_o say_v so_o from_o my_o word_n nor_o be_v it_o necessary_a the_o chief_a pastor_n shall_v assign_v any_o it_o suffice_v that_o those_o christian_n be_v resolve_v to_o conform_v when_o it_o be_v assign_v mr._n baxter_n qu._n 2._o what_o be_v that_o faith_n in_o unity_n where_o all_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n do_v live_v be_v it_o the_o belief_n of_o 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