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A65868 The he-goats horn broken, or, Innocency elevated against insolency & impudent falshood in answer to two books against the people of God called Quakers : the one intituled, A fuller discovery, which is stuffed with such a multitude of lyes, slanders, and perverting the truth, as the like hath not been extant : the authors of which are John Horn, Thomas Moore Senior, and Thomas Moore Junior : and the other book is falsely called truth's triumph by John Horn : which are answered for the information of the people, and the clearing of the servants of God, and the way of truth to the simple hearted from the lyes, delusions and fallacies that have proceeded from the spirit of Antichrist and blasphemy, in these men aforesaid, who profess themselves ministers of Christ but are proved ministers of Satan and unrighteousness / by a witness of Christ and his work against all the works of darkness, G.W. Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723. 1660 (1660) Wing W1933; ESTC R38606 53,172 64

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in person with them 1000. years there must be another Resurrection of the bodies of the wicked which they call the last and general Resurrection but in these things they would shew themselves wise above what is written but the Kingdome of Christ wherein he will Reign and Rule over the Nations is Spiritual and Spiritually discerned and known where the Power wherein the Kingdome stands is felt and not according to the carnal imaginations of hireling Priests Deceivers J. H. T. M. In P. 141. They say that Christ hath appointed together with the Preaching the Cross this outward Ordinance speaking of the blessing and breaking Bread and taking and blessing the Cup for the remembring and shewing forth the Lords Death till be come which implies that there is even in believers in their several ages till that his coming again natural d●●ness and proneness to forget it and therefore need of such mementoes c. and that he hath appointed such means to stir us up by putting us in remembranes often they say Reply Herein they undervalue the believers as if they were 〈◊〉 themselves having natural dulness and proneness to forget the Lords Death the before imagin that the belevers ●●ct have need of such outward ●●ings as bread and wine to stir them up by putting them in remembrance often whenas the true believers are come to the substance and to feed upon the flesh of Christ and feel his coming knowing that the bread which they break is the Communion of the body of Christ and the cup of blessing which they bless is the Communion of the blood of Christ which the outward bread and the cup was but a sign or a figure of and the end of the World they are come to see who are in the Communion of the body of Christ for in the World is the strife and the doting about these outward shaddows which are passed away where the glory of the Sun is broken forth and the mysteries of life revealed And what is it that puts you in remembrance to take bread and wine Will not the same stir you up to the remembrance of Christs death But you are so dull and prone to forget it that you must alwayes have need of such shaddows to put you in remembrance often sure if you were come to feel the power of Christs sufferings and were come to feed upon his flesh which giveth life unto the world and to drink his blood you would not be so forgetful of Christ as you are for can a living man who is sound forget his natural food And where you say that we render the Supper of the Lord as well as the passover a figure in this have you spoken falsely for we are come to the Supper of the Lord and to sup with Christ and he with us where the bread of God is received which is not a figure but the substance to which Supper you are not come who live in pride and vanity and pleading for sin as your natural heritage and with such Christ does not Sup nor feed among such a proud company as you are at your bread and wine which blindly you call his Supper when it hath not so much as a true form of the Supper of Christ in it when his Disciples eat with him in the night in which he was betrayed they eat the passeover according to the command Mat. 26. Luke 22. 8. So that his Supper was not without the Passeover which was a figure that Christ fulfilled Again J. H. and T. M. in P. 146. you charg us with corrupt imaginations and with signifying in our former Questions that the blood sufferings and death of Christ that is over and past as to the actual accomplishment and sustaining thereof and was so finished in that body is not the bread of life or the drink indeed and the purger of the conscience but something else figured by that which is now in a present and sensible being nigh to men and in them Reply In which you shew your corruptness and perverting the Truth in that you are striving against what we said of the flesh and blood of Christ viz. That his flesh and blood is so nigh to every believer that his flesh is his meat and his blood is his drink indeed and this flesh and blood continues and is felt in the true believer whereby he hath life in him and his conscience purged when the sufferings and death of Christ as to the actual accomplishment and sustaining thereof is over and past as you confess But alas you are ignorant of this and cannot tell where the blood of Christ is as to the existence of it and yet you have called it the foundation of your faith and Gods own blood P. 89. Acts 20. 28. and yet by your words God is without his own blood in Heaven for you have denyed it to be in Christs body in Heaven so you cavel at us for witnessing the life and substance of that which you are both ignorant of and are confounded about Where we asked J. H. and T. M. What is their ground for sprinkling the Children of them they count believers About this they shuffle and dare not answer directly for fear it appears of displeasing their other Brethren the Priests that differ from them in this and say they reject our Question but yet they say That in Baptizing Repentance and remission of sins is Preached and witnessed as in his name for them and through it unto them as appears by comparing Mat. 28. 19. with Luke 24. 47 48. and Acts 13. To which I say in this have you wrested these Scriptures for they will not serve your ends as you would have them Repentance and remission of sins was not Preached by Christs Ministers to infants through Sprinckling them what do you repent for them Or promise that they shall repent And are you sure that they will prove believers that sprinckle them as the seed of believers in your account and how do you know that other Peoples Children whom you have refused to sprinckle are not as well the seed of believers as those whom you sprinckle and yet for that Popish practise you have no rule in the Scriptures of truth You say in P. 155. That we must needs reject and deride imputed Righteousness viz. mens being the Righteousness of God in him in an answerable sense as he was made sin for us Reply Herein you bely us for we neither reject nor deride the imputed Righteousness we being in the faith wherein it is revealed in us and imputed to us to our sanctification whereby we are become the Righteousness of God in Christ 2. Christ was made sin for us who knew no sin 2 Cor. 5. 21. neither was there any sin in him so that if mens being the righteousness of God in him be in an answerable sense as Christ was made sin as you imagin say then God must account them his Righteousness when they know none of his
answered again Herein hast thou shamefully Lyed again for thou hast gone about thorow much of thy Book to plead thy own Cause and hast not taken good Hezekiah's Counsel as thou hast pretended but hast answered again though to thy own confusion And in Pag. 7. Where thou sayest The Quakers would be thought to be better than the Prophets and Apostles This is thy Lye and slander J. H. And in Pag 8. To my saying the true Prophet sayes all his Judgements were before me and as for his Statutes I did not depart from them I was also upright before him and have kept my self from my iniquity 2 Sam. 22. 24 but thou sayest that David acknowledges he had then Iniquity for how was Iniquity his if there was none in him In which thou hast perverted Davids words for David saith he kept himself from his Iniquity and did not depart from the Statutes of the Lord so that then he was not a Sinner and our transgressions and our Sins the Saints spoke of when they were washed from them and their transgressions done far from them Psal. 103. 12. Rev. 1. 5. In P. 9. J. H. Saith It is true too that God promises that his People shall be all Righteous and clean from all their filthiness c. and that God is performing his promises to them that they may all be perfectly Righteous even in themselves in the New Heaven and Earth and New Jerusalem where shall be no unclean thing he saith To which Reply In this hath John Horn overthrown his former Doctrine for if the People of God shall be cleansed from all their filthiness as in Ezek. 36. 25. and be all perfectly Righteous in the New Jerusalem then they are not to be Sinners nor have sin in them so long as they live as J. H. hath affirmed for the Saints before their decease were come unto New Jerusalem and to be Citizens there and to a Kingdom that could not be shaken into which no unclean thing could come and to see the removing of the old Earth and Heaven which were shaken Ephes. 2. 19. Col. 1. 13. Heb. 12. which yet J. H. and all such as he who are contending for the Devils work are Ignorant of And as for those that John saw Rev. 14. who were without fault before the Throne of God I. H. saith all that heartily believe in Christ and are not moved away from the hope of the Gospel it is Christs Office to present them holy unblameable and without Reproof in Gods sight Col. 1. 22 23. not because they are sinless in themselves he saith Mark his confusion and deceit here according to J. H. his words here the Saints who are without fault before the Throne of God and holy blameless and without Reproof in Gods sight are Sinners notwithstanding as if sin were no fault and not to be Reproved or blamed in Gods sight Oh! what darkness and deceit art thou in I. H. what art thou wholly past feeling doest thou not know in thy own particular that every Sin thou hast is Reproveable and art thou not Reproved in thy own Conscience by the Light for it surely thou art exceedingly hardened and hast denyed Christs Office in thy contending for sin to continue even in them whom Christ presents Holy unblameable and without reproof in Gods sight who live not to themselves but unto the Lord And in P. 10. I. H. Saith He that in such a sence as in 1 Joh. 1. 9. confesseth his Sins is Righteous as Christ is Righteous for Christ is his Righteousness and yet he that confesseth his sin is not without sin in himself In which he hath uttered Blasphemy against Christ for Christ hath no Sin in himself to confess as they have who are but confessing their Sins which they have who are not freed from Sin for they who are Righteous as Christ is Righteous do witness Sin condemned in the flesh and destroyed and walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit being purified from all the filthiness of flesh and Spirit And to my saying that Paul witnessed the groaning and travelling in pain before the Birth was born in him or before he was Born of God which I. H. hath deceitfully perverted and wronged my words about and that Paul spake to Conditions below his own to the Romans which I. H. saith cannot be true and the other too for if Paul was but then groaning to be born and not born of God he spake of his own state and if he spake to others states below his own then is it not true that he had while an Apostle a time in which he was not born of God To which I say in this hath he shewed his blindness and falsehood for he hath not a ground for these cavals against me in that I never affirmed that Paul was but groaning to be born of God when he wrote to the Romans nor that he was not born of God when an Apostle but I know he witnessed the groaning and travelling in pain before the free born state was witnessed in him as also after he was come into that state himself he suffered with the body where it suffered and travailed for its redemption where it was not redeemed which body was not one member but many and for the suffering seeds-sake in those members Paul condescended to states below his own even when he wrote to the Romans all which he himself could not then be in when he so wrote yet a sufferer and a traveller under all those burthens which the body under went about whose condescending I have more fully writ in that Book called the Quakers no Deceivers Page 14. 15 16 17. the truth's whereof J. H. cannot get over for all his cavails And where thou sayest J. H. in P. 9. that the temptations God tries his People with are to try and purifie their faith from the mixtures therein In this thou art ignorant of the faith of Gods elect and the mystery of it for it is pure and stands in the power of God where there is no mixture of sin it being of another nature than sin for it worketh sin out J. H. in P. 16. Speaking of the birth which is born of God he saith he denies not but in that birth there might be degrees and grouth after nor will the perfection of it be as to the body till the resurrection thereof from the Dead To which I say that birth thou never knew nor its perfection For how could the body be a Temple for the Lord if the perfection of the birth be not as to it For the Saints were born of water and the Spirit which cleansed them from all filthiness of flesh and Spirit so that they became members of his body of his flesh and of his bone J. H. saith The Prophet Isaiah doth not witness that in them a Child was born and a Son in them was given Answ. Christ was the first born in many Brethren {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman}