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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
sense_n	church_n	speak_v	word_n	3,838	5	4.2901	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85315	Stablishing against shaking: or, A discovery of the Prince of Darknesse (scarcely) transformed into an angel of light, powerfully now working in the deluded people called, Quakers: with a sober answer to their railings against ministers for receiving maintenance from their people. Being the substance of one sermon preached Feb. 17. 1655. at Shalford in Essex. / By Giles Firmin (pastour of the church there) upon occasion of the Quakers troubling those parts.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1656 (1656)	Wing F967; Thomason E885_13; ESTC R202074	45,528	65

thing in Rev. 6.9 10 11. there is mention made of many slain for the Word of God c. these had white robes given them c these who were slain must needs fall under the X Persecutions under the heathen Emperours and may well in a speciall manner look to that horrible butchery under Dioclesian but if you know those times you will finde there were abundance of Bishops slain in those times I mean Bishops who were above Presbyters in the Church and you shall finde abundance of ceremonies humane inventions in those times in the worship of God yet we finde God doth not show such disdain of them as you doe now he gives them white robes Thus Bp Cranmer Ridley Hooper and abundance of Ministers ordained by those Bishops but suffered gloriously for the testimony which they held the Lord will own them with honour in the Day of Judgment how then you come to cast off so many Ministers of Christ so able in the worke of the Gospel as none have been more able since the Apostles dayes no nor so able so godly in their conversation to whose Ministery God hath sealed in the spirituall children he hath given them and onely because they were ordained by Bishops who yet were Ministers and did Ministeriall work doe you provide to answer for this at that day Some men will scarce own any mans Ordination but that which is by such Bishops and you will own no Ministers who are ordained by such if you two should meet who would be the strongest Parnel Gol p. 26. makes this a proof against our Ministery that it is earthly because in thus many years we have wrought no better reformation 1. But Parnel the English Ministery through grace will show the greatest reformation in the world and yet none in the world opposed like it We can show the souls who confesse by us the Lord inlightened them turned them and hath built them up 2. Then Isaiahs and Ieremiahs with other of the Prophets Ministery was earthly for I am sure they wrought but little reformation 3. What was Christs Ministery earthly also he complains Isa 49.4 that he had laboured in vain 4. What you will have many called and many chosen Christ saith the contrary Conclusion To conclude I dare affirm that there is as true and as able a Ministery in England this day as ever was since the Apostles died and if any Quakers or Separatists will undertake to prove the contrary so they will argue and not babble they shall soon finde those who will answer them While therefore you cast filth upon these I plead not for every particular Minister and upon all the Churches you show your light to be of Satan c. Argum 11 Major That Light which brags of the infallible spirit and yet cannot speak good sense or reason that Light and Spirit must come from Satan not from Christ Minor But such is the Quakers light and infallible Spirit Ergo. Major The Spirit of Christ is a Spirit of wisdome but he that speaketh irrationally nonsense he doth not speak wisely the Spirit of God is a most rationall Spirit and where it speaks it speaks like it self Acts 6.10 They were not able to resist the wisdome and the Spirit by which Stephen spake Thus Paul Apollos c. they spake rationally carried such strength that none could answer them Ministers must be men able to convince 1 Tit. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those that talk irrationally will never 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I know Satan can speak rationally sense also which makes us wonder what he means to take such instruments unlesse it be because he is at the last seeing witty Jesuits cannot doe the businesse now try if foolish Quakers can doe it this also I know that reason being a beam of God there can be no true reason for sin or errour Also though abundance of Gods people are weak and shallow yet they never speak truth but they speak sense and reason But here we have a pack mightily insulting over the Ministers because they doe not assume to themselves the infallible Spirit in that notion which the Quakers boast they have it and yet cannot speak rationally Let us hear a little Qua gl● of God p 3 4. there they undertake to answer the arguments the Apostle brings 1 Cor. 9.9 10 11 c. to prove the maintenance of Ministers They that preach on the Gospel must live upon the Gospel This scripture shames you and shews your Gospel will not maintain you but you seek to Magistrat s●● and the Ministers of the Gospel are ashamed of such a pack of teachers This is his answer so He that thresheth thresheth in hope Oh how have they threshed in hope all this while and got forth no corne but are faine to seeke to the Magistrates for me●nes and food So Thou shalt not muzzle the month of the Oxe Oh you shamelesse teachers your mouthes must be muzled have been treading all this while and no corne trodden out to feed you but are faine to seek to the Magistrates Doe not these men speak gallantly Is not here evidence of the infallible Spirit But if these Quakers would have spoken like men thus ye should have said True those who preach the Gospel those who thresh those who tread out c. that is those who doe perform the work of the Lords Ministers in teaching Iabouring faithfully they may challenge maintenance by these Scriptures But you doe not thresh labour c. in the Lords work Therefore you cannot claim maintenance from these Seriptures now you had spoken rationally and there had been matter of shame indeed that we should have called for corn and not wrought but now you have cast all the shame upon the people that we preaching labouring threshing c. are denied our corn our maintenance and are forced to goe to the Magistrates our nursing fathers Isa 49 v. 23. for it Like a man who hath been plowing and threshing halfe a yeare for another when he comes to demand his wages he is denied the man goeth to the Magistrate to be helped the Quakers cry out Oh thou shamelesse man hast thou been plowing and threshing so long and now art fain to goe to the Magistrate c. Doth the man deserve shame or he who deny him his due So here Thus Priests Igno p. 2. The teachers of the world sprinkle Infants telling people its an Ordinance of God which is contrary to the Scriptures and quotes in his margent Gal. 3.1 Luc. 1.26.36 Let any one reade those Scriptures and see how they oppose it he quotes no other Scriptures In the next The teachers of the world call people unto a Sacrament for the which there is no Scripture here they act contrary to the Scriptures quoting Gen. 29.28 the words are these and Iacob did so and fulfilled her weeke and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also and Gen. 10. but no verse These are all the Scriptures Here

you see the Priests ignorance and the Quakers knowledge laid together So let any one that hath reason reade Naylor his Answer to Io Reyners Queries Parnel against Dr. Draton and then see if it be not a wofull judgment of God to let a Nation be over-run and people catched with such witlesse brainlesse fellowes besides their grosse abominable principles that destroy Scriptures Ordinances Churches civil States c. Conclusion Since then the Light which the Quakers boast come from the infallible Spirit in them is thus irrationall brutish c. I conclude their Light is from Satan not from Christ Argum 12 Major That Light which affirmeth sound believers walking evangelically in obedience to Gods commandements to be in a state of condemnation that Light is from Satan not from Christ Minor But so doe the Light of the Quakers Ergo. The Major is plain 3 Ioh. 36.18.16 16 Mar. 16. If faith and holinesse shall go to hell what shall goe to heaven Minor They doe not say this in so many words but by consequence for the persons who are such and they cannot disprove it they affirm to be in that condition But the Quakers Light affirmeth sound believers and persons who walk in obedience c. to be in a state of condemnation For we are assured there are hundreds of sound believers in Christ in England that fear to sinne walke with the Lord and that more close than the Quakers who doe detest and abominate the Quakers doctrines principles and practises but the Quakers say of those who come not amongst them that they shall be damned perish c. This is their common language about us Thus J. Toldervy Ep. 17.18 told his Master Col. Web. Thus Mason p. 8. speaking to the Ministers whom he calls Merchants of Babylon bid us read our doom in Revel 18.7.8 yet among these I am sure are very sound believers and very holy men if they may be tried by the word which shall try them yea and you Mason and all your Quakers notwithstanding your boastings of the infallible Spirit Thus I. N. p. 17. F. Harris makes this Querie Whether it be safe for Christians to forsake and let goe those Gospel-dispensations of the Spirit of Truth in which God hath blessedly appeared c The summe of his answer is this that all those who deny the light of Christ and the infallible spirit in their sense this must be taken else we do say some truth is in this have nothing but the spirit of delusions but then adds without the infallible spirit there is no promise nor word but what is stolen from others or out of a booke and had thou had no booke thou had no voice nor promise Here is brave stuffe the promises then in the Bible are little worth if I. N. can finde any promises out of this book let him take them for me Thus Parnel and Naylor call the Ministers Magicians Let the Quakers tell us what is faith according as the Lord Christ declares it in his Word not their infallible Spirit without the Word tell us what it is to walk holily as the holy men in Scripture have done and see if there be not many hundreds that answer that faith and holinesse And let me desire the Quakers but to tell me of one man in the Word of God that was holy who embraced the Quakers doctrines principles and practises Conclusion Since then the Quakers light condemne such as the light of Christ approves of hence I conclude their light is from Satan c. Jam. 3.1 Be not many Masters knowing we shall receive the greater condemnation Who so masterly as the Quakers Mat. 7. ver 1. Argum 13 As for their shaking in that strange manner which some report of them and their books defend it is manifest enough to every one whom the God of this world hath not blinded whence it comes and prove their doctrine to have the same Authour it is a thing so known amongst them that J. Toldervy saith p. 28. He had long waited for it then had it to purpose My whole man was so shaken torn and rent that had I not by a great strength been enabled I could not have continued also it did worke in me as though I had taken a strong purge pag. 29. yet I. N. against F. Harris p. 18. abuseth the holy examples of Daniel Moses and David to defend these Diabolical actings nothing like those holy men neither in the causes nor effects Let the Reader observe the History at the end of the book I shall conclude all with transcribing a few lines out of him where he relateth what one of these Quakers who was of his former acquaintance pag. 7. spake to him with Answer to one of Parnels Queries He gave me to understand that they were sent forth to preach the Gospel by the same Christ the Apostles were and that the person that Son of God which died at Jerusalem was not the Redeemer of man from sinne Oh fearful but the redeemer was in every particular man that light by which he was given to see sinne and enabled by it if obeyed to be redeemed from sinne which Christ had redeemed them perfect and now lived in them Lord of all things by which they were made the sons of God and so what was manifested to them by that substance from that substance were they moved to speake which was the same holy Ghost by which the Apostles were endued sent forth and enabled to preach so he declared how sometimes in the night they were immediately commanded by the eternall spirit to goe forth and preach c. Here is enough said to make us all quake I intend not to open the wretchednesse that lieth in these words onely this is worth the observation that whereas some have cast off all Officers and Churches because we are out of order say they and therefore they wait for Apostolical men to be sent from God I know not how to bring us into order here you have them I hope your expectation is answered by a fearful judgement of God But let us hear what is Parnels opinion though propounded by way of querie Whether any now ought to preach in the name of Jesus but who are called to it and fitted for it the same way as the holy men of God were spoken of in Scripture What holy men he meaneth the next Querie to this will interpret Whether doe you owne immediate revelation now yea or nay q 8.9 The question would be what he means by immediate revelation but by comparing their spirits we may know his meaning Bishop p. 24. proving that we are not the Ministers of Christ brings in this for one proof Gal. 1.12 the Ministers of Christ received not the Gospel by man nor the will of man nor were they taught it but by the revelation of Jesus Christ in them We may see what Parnel aimes at but in this sense no we own no such revelations 1. For

what should such Revelations concern Faith or Manners If Faith All that we are bound to believe Christ hath perfectly revealed in his Word If Manners Christ also hath perfectly reveal'd the whole will of God for our obedience 2 Tim. 3.16 17. The Scripture c. There it is to be found in the Scripture whatever is requisite to make the man of God perfect Since we have a perfect rule what need we more What if there be a revelation that crosse an Article of faith or rule of obedience in the Scripture as doe the pretended revelations of the Quakers what shall we judge of it Surely the Devil is the Author of it 2. The foundation upon which the true Church of Christ is built hath long since been perfectly layed Ephes 2.20 and are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Jesus Christ himself being the chief Corner-stone No Church need any better foundation to be built upon than the Church of the Ephesians was built upon that was built upon not any of our new mad Diabolical Apostles but the Apostles which the Lord Jesus himself called fitted in a glorious manner that the servants did shew who was their Master and Paul one of these Acts 20.27 tells the Elders I have not shunned to declare to you All the Counsell of God which concerneth our salvation If the Quakers bring any more then Paul did not declare All but whether Paul or the Quakers speak truest we will not dispute shew us now such men as those Apostles were 3. I pray tell us what Scripture have you to prove that any men now in these dayes should have such revelations and that now we must look again for Apostles It may be you will make a tush at Scripture and tell us your infallible Spirit tells you so but we can upon better grounds make a tush at your Spirit and curse you by the authority of the Spirit for adding to his Word Deut. 12.32 Rev. 22.18 4. Before you brag of your Apostleship and Revelations shew your selves to be I will not say Christians but Men rational men which as yet you have not done 5. As after those Prophets under the Old Testament whom God raised up no man dared to assume to himselfe that Name and Office I know there were those who were called Prophets in the N. Test but they differed from the Old or dared to be a Pen-man so after the Apostles whom Christ himselfe chose fitted and authorized to be his Pen-men in the New Testament let none dare to be so devilish to assume that Office or Name unto themselves 6. The Testatour is dead who then shall make any other Testament or what need is there of any other than what himself hath made For the infallible Spirit the Quakers so much prate of abusing the Ministers because they doe not boast of it and Mason in particular pag 15. abuseth Mr. Scortrith and bid his people take heed of him I shall speak a few words Mason adds this Take this along with you too The Spirit of Truth is the infallible Spirit But George Scortrith confesses he hath not the Infallible Therefore George Scortrith preaches from the Spirit of Errour What now what doe Quakers make Syllogismes then we look to our selves but Mason the next time you make a Syllogisme desire your Master to learn you so much skill to make a true one for the Priests doe laugh to reade such a false one You might have indeed disposed the predicate of your question in the Major proposition with some words altered but now it is no where disposed But to the businesse 1. If the Quakers would have us affirme that all Ministers must have the Spirit in that manner as the Prophets 1 Pet. 1. v. 11. and Apostles v. 12. So 2 Pet. 1. ult then we professedly say we have it not If the Quakers say they have it so then I say the Spirit in the Prophets and Apostles was not the infallible Spirit for the Quakers spirit is crosse to that 2. I affirm that Ministers I mean not every particular man who calls himself a Minister have that Spirit which is Infallible to some a Spirit of gifts and grace to some onely gifts We pray to the Lord for it and that we may be guided by it 3. True Ministers doe by that Spirit from his word teach to their people the infallible truths of Christ they build them upon such foundations for doctrine and practise that not one who follow their preaching shall ever miscarry but shall honour God here and be infallibly saved hereafter 4. Those who have forsaken this Ministerie the Spirit of God hath left them and let them fall into corrupt errors and some damnable heresies with practises grievous and offensive to the Spirit But yet to say that this Spirit which with reverent humility we dare say we have doth or is bound to teach us every one in every Iota of truth so that not in any particular whatever we may mistake this we doe not affirm no more than he doth or is bound to expell every relique of corruption out of our hearts we know but in part Peter might boast of this Spirit more than Mason but whence then doth he walke so Gal. 2.11.14 as to deserve a reproof Nay goe to others who were guided extraordinarily Isaac by a prophetical Spirit and infallible blessed Iacob but he mistook in the person whom he blessed he thought it had been Esau the infallible Spirit did not guide him there to know Jacob but he erred as to his owne purpose Samuel went to anoint David by an infallible Spirit but he mistook in Eliab So Nathan a Prophet but he mistook in his counsell to David about the Temple building Then why the Spirit should so teach every Minister that in no point whatever he should mistake so long as in nothing that concern the salvation of his people I know not Much more might be gathered out of their Books whereby it may appear by what spirit these Quakers are led truely by Satan scarce transformed into an Angel of Light And now to you who are my people and have chosen me to be your Officer having thus opened the wickednesse of this Sect I exhort you to beware of them for you who have understanding so as you are able to oppose them I doe not fear your going to hear them or conferring with them they are scarce men in reason for you who are of the weaker sort I exhort you again come not neer them so much as to hear them since warning is given what they are but if you will doe it know assuredly the Church will proceed against you for so doing as for any other sinne FINIS A Minister now in Essex gave this Narration to a friend of mine written with his own hand and his name to it the Copie is true that I here offer to the Reader The 8th Moneth 19th day 1654. AT the earnest desire of some friends I went with John Ward and Anthony Hunter to a meeting of the deluded souls called Quakers at John Hunters of Benfield-side in the County of Durham where we found about twenty persons sitting all silent after we had sate awhile all being mute the Lord moved me to arise and call upon his name by prayer I was no sooner up but my leggs trembled greatly so that it was some difficulty to stand but after I had prayed a short space the trembling ceased while I prayed to GOD as a Creatour there was but little disturbance but when I cryed in the name of JESUS CHRIST my Mediatour God in my nature now in the highest glory appearing and interceding for his Saints then the Devil roared in the deceived soules in most strange and dreadfull manner some howling some screeking yelling roaring and some had a strange confused kinde of humming singing noise Such a representation of Hell I never heard of nothing but horror and confusion After I had done praying not opening my eyes before I was amazed to see about the one halfe of those miserable creatures so terribly shaken with such strange violent various motions that I wondred how it was possible some of them could live In the midst of this confusion one of them asked if I were come to torment them To whom I applyed this word Mat. 8.29 And while I spake something of Faith they declared that they were come to the faith of Devils Jam. 2.19 but said we were not attained to such a faith After two houres as we were departing out of the house one of them cursed me with these words All the plagues of God be upon thee Whereupon I returned and prayed for such of them as had not committed the unpardonable sinne Thus farre this Minister Lately in a Town neer me when the Quakers were met together there appeared one amongst them in such a shape as caused them to break up their meeting with no small trouble to divers of them I cannot learne the perfect manner for the Quakers will not reveale it onely so much some of them have affirmed and I will not publish more than I am certaine of I wish it may turn to their good