God euery spirit which câ—fesseth not Iesus Christ to haue come â— the flesh is not of God wherfore the samâ— is not of God which denieth either the dâ—uine or humaine nature of Christ and tâ— true vniting of them both or derogateth any thing from the office of Christ beeingâ— king who onely hath all spirituall rule anâ— authoritie committed vnto him beeing Prophet who onely is appointed to delâ—uer vnto vs his fathers minde and willâ— and to teach vs all truth being a Priestâ— who hath offered a sweete smelling Sacrifice for vs vnto God the father euen his owne body vppon the Crosse once for all which onely Sacrifice is of force and value to purge and clense the sinnes of all those that beleeue But who be they which denie Christ in person or in office â–ª euen that Church that woulde haue Christ as hee is â—n to be in any other shape fourme then that which he receiued of the virgin Ma 〈◊〉 in sundry places at one time contrary the nature of a true body or affirmeth â—at mankinde lost through Adams fal and ansâ—ression could be saued by any other leaâ—es then onely by Christ whether it be â—y mans merits and works or by the parâ—ons and indulgences of the Pope or by â—nie other deuise of man Finally that Church which teacheth anie other mediaâ—â—â— betwixt God and man either of reâ—emption or intercession then onely Christ â—he same Church denieth Christ to haue â—ome in the flesh and therefore is not the 〈◊〉 Church of god The bare name or title of the Church is not sufficient but as gold is tried by the Touchstone so we must prooue the Church by the woorde of 〈◊〉 which is the Touchstone of all truth This Church by the preaching of the Gospell by the Lodestarre of Christ his holy â—ord hath from time to time brought the â—le of God from Gentilitie from Iuâ—me from the grosse Idolatrie whiche â— haue vsed in your Church and from â— darke dungeon of ignorance and blindnes into the cleare light shining brightnes of true knowledge Yea this same râ—ligion and doctrine which nowe we dâ— teach was deliuered first by Iesus Chriâ— vnto the Apostles then preached by them afterwardes yet not without bloodshed taught from time to time for the space â— sixe hundred yeares as the writings of aâ— the auncient Fathers doo witnesseâ— and so forwarde vntill by little and little your superstitious patched religion increased by fire and Fagot and other extremâ— tortures and cruelties These thinges being manifest I tendering your saluation â— which doo call your â—elfe a Catholik or Papiste doo most earnestly admonish you that according vnto your promise yoâ— would yeeld your self vnto the eternal God who knoweth all secrets and abhorreth all hipocrisie Let Christ Iesus by the scepter of his woorde rule your conscience and direct your hart in his trueth suffer the holy spirit of God to instill the sweete tast of Gods holy woord into your minde that you may hate your owne ignorance and blindenesse and study to attaine the true light and to bee guided by the motions of the same comfortable spirit of God which the Lord graunt to you for his Christs sake Papist Aske of him what Church it was which â— hath induced the Christian people thoâ—row out the whole worlde to giue most â— humble credit in all pointes to the holy â—â—â—kes of the Byble what Church hath had 〈◊〉 discerning and seuering them from oâ—â—â— writinges of all sortes what Churche â—â—th had the custody of them and most safeâ—â— hath preserued them for the necessarie vse of Gods people and from the corruption of aduersaries aswell Iewes as Heretiks of all sortes and let the Protestant declare vnto me that this congregation hath had from time to time or euer had any right herein â—â— anie other Church sauing the catholike Church and I recante Answeare I Do merueile with what face you can â—rrogate vnto your Church that you haue moued the people throughout the â—orlde to giue credit vnto the scriptures 〈◊〉 that your Church hath deterred the â—â—â—ople from reading them affirminge â—â—â—m to be harde and difficult daungeâ—â—â—us to the simple and vnlearned a nose 〈◊〉 waxe a shippmans hose a dead letter and either of enuie vnto the poore souâ— whom you call dogges and hogges aâ— sing this text giue not that which is hâ— vnto dogges or of hate vnto the scripturâ— you haue kept the key knowledge whâ— is the holy woorde of God vnder a vaâ— in an vnknowne tounge fearinge aâ— iudge lest the misty cloudes of your persticious deuises would vanish awâ— if the bright beames of Christ his Gâ—pell might shine in simple mens mindâ— What humble credite do you giue vnto Scriptures seing that one of the pillerâ— your Church saieth That the Scripturâ— are not autenticall or of credite bâ— onelie by the warrant and aucthoriâ— of your Churche of Rome an other your Doctoures hath these woordeâ— The Apostles saith he when they deliuâ—red the Creed neuer said I beleue tâ— holy Byble or the holy Gospel but the saide I beleeue the holy Churche Aâ— likewise in an other place he saith â— any man haue the exposition of thâ— Church of Rome touchinge any placâ— of the Scriptures although he neitheâ— knowe nor vnderstand whether or howâ— it agreeth with the wordes of the Scriptures yet he hath the very word of God. â—nd how doubtful vncertain al your inâ—â—â—pretations be Cusanus a Cardinall 〈◊〉 the Churche of Rome sheweth It 〈◊〉 no meruaile saith he though the practise of the Churche expounde the â—â—â—iptures at one time one way and at â—â—â—other time another way For the vnderâ—â—â—nding or the sence of the scriptures runâ—â—â—h with the practise and that sence so agreeinge with the practise is the quicâ—â—ninge spirite And therefore the scripâ—â—res followe the Churche but contraâ—iewise the Churche followeth not the Scriptures And whereas in verie â—eede the scriptures be the light that geâ—â—â—th sight to the blinde and rightly called 〈◊〉 candle whereby the theefe is taken the truth which doeth disclose all errours 〈◊〉 rule to square and frame mans lyfe 〈◊〉 power of God vnto saluation I muse â—â—â—uely howe you daâ—â— presume to keepe his hid treasure from Gods inheritance â—nd yet preteÌ„d that you do perswade them â—â—â—stantly to giue most humble credit thereâ—â—â—to And forsomuche as you do challeng â—â—â—e discerning seuering the Scriptures â—â—â—om other writinges of all sortes you haue in verie deed not onely corrupted the trâ— sense of the Bible but also abased the authoritie of the scriptures and haue madâ— equall or rather preferred your owne decrees and constitutions before the holâ— Bible the errours in your old translatioÌ„ oâ— the Bible which you falsly ascribe vntâ— S. Ierome be so manifest so grosse thaâ— euery childe may easily espy them as iâ— the third chapter of Genesis these wordeâ— are to be found Ipsa conteret caput tuuâ— She shall breake
sense and â—ere not able to expound and interpret his â—wn meaning Saint Paule saith That we must to not heare an Angel if he bring aâ—ie thing contrarie to the Gospell Augustine expounding these woordes saith Whether it be of Christ or of his church or of anie thing else whatsoeuer pertaining either to our life or to our faith I wil not onely say if I my self but if an Angel from heauen shal teach vs otherwise then we haue receiued in the bookes of the Lawe and the Gospel holde him accursed An other godly father saith As what Gold soeuer is without the Temple is not sanctified so euery sense and interpretation which is without the holy scripture although vnto some it seeme woonderfull yet it is not holy because it is not conteined in the sense of the Scripture Call to remembraunce I praye you how vntruely and cleane contrarie to the true meaning of the holy Ghost your Church hath interpreted the Scriptures As vpon these woordes Fiet vnum ouile et vnus Pastor your Church giueth this exposition to these woordes There shal be one folde and one shepheard we may not vnderstand it of Christ but of some other minister that ruleth in his roome One saide vnto Pope Leo in the CouÌ„cel holden at Lateran Behold the Lyon of the tribe of Iuda is come the roote of Dauid c. O most blessed Leo wee haue wayted for thee to be our Sauiour So it is likewise sayde The Pope beeing the light is come into the worlde and men haue loued the darkenesse more then light euery man that dooth euell hateth the light that is to say the Pope and commeth not to the light These woordes are to be vnderstoode of our sauiour Christ who in deede is the Lyon of the tribe of Iuda and commeth of the roote of Dauid who is the lighte that commeth into the world and see how blasphemouslie your Church doth wrest these woordes and applieth them vnto the Pope Againe Pope Sextus affirmeth That hee can neuer be forgiuen whosoeuer he be which accuseth the Pope And thus he reasoneth He that sinneth against the holy Ghost that is to say Against the Pope shall neuer be forgiuen neither in this world nor in the world to come These woordes of the Scripture are thus to bee taken That they shall neuer haue forgiuenes at Gods hands which sinne against the holy Ghost And the Pope wil haue them to be meant of him I coulde rehearse infinite places to this same effecte and purpose But let the indifferent reader iudge by these fewe places howe vntruely the church of Rome dooth interpret the holy scriptures But let them beware betimes of the heauy iudgmeÌ„ts of god Wo be vnto theÌ„ that cal good euel euel good darkenes light light darknes sower sweete and sweete sower What is this but to diminish the authoritie of the heauenly woorde of God God dooth sharpely threaten That if anie man shal adde vnto these thinges GOD shall adde vnto him those plagues that are writteÌ„ in this booke if anie man shal diminish of the wordes of the booke of this prophesie God shall take away his parte out of the booke of life out of the holy citie and from those things which are written in this boke God grauÌ„t you true repentaÌ„ce that you may imbrace Christ his worde and escape these threatnings of God. Papist 17 MOreouer let anie man prooue vnto me that the true only church of god may at anie time be voyd of a spirit of falsly interpret any senteÌ„ce of holy scripture or induce any errours among the people or approoue any vnprofitable or hurtful vsage amongst Christians or that she suffreth any daÌ„nable abuse in her religion without open reprehension thereof prooue any of these proofes And I recant Answeare 17 I Haue prooued before at large that the true Church of God is neuer without the comfort of gods spirit which spirit doeth not visibly and openly in anie forme or substance reueale and shewe him selfe but inwardly ingraffe in the hartes of the elect whether they be manie or fewe the doctrine of the Gospell doth increase true knoweledge in them doth worke true sanctificatioÌ„ holinesse and doth guide leade them in al good actions I haue proued also that gods true church doth not corrupt and falsly interpret the holy scriptures as your Church of Rome doth in wresting and wringing the sence of the scriptures in comparing it to A nose of waxe a shipmans hose or in calling it A dead and dumbe letter But the true sheepe doth gladly here the voice of the shephearde do acknowledge all thinges to be contained in the scripture necessary for mans saluation doe confesse no hardnesse or difficulty to be in the worde of God But that the holie Ghost doth sufficiently expounde himselfe and one place expresse another The true Church doth not teach the people anie errours anie vnwritten verities any inuentions of her owne braine or anie thing touching doctrine or life which shee findeth not written in the canonicall scriptures doth not approue anie vnprofitable vsages anie fond customes or suffer anie damnable abuses in religion without open reprehension dooth finde faulte and doth openlie inueigh against all thinges which be mixt with Gods true worshippe and seruice by the deuise of anie man whatsoeuer and will alowe nothing to be vsed amongst gods people but onely that which is warranted by the worde of god In this your treatise albeit you speake generallie yet you haue a special meaning But truly euen in that thing wherewith you charge vs you bee most giltie your selfe For if those be worthily called Abuses in religion which be matters of faith and vsed in the Church contrarie to the expresse worde of God so that Christ may be vmpeere lett al indifferent persons iudge whether your Church of Rome or we which professe the Gospell doe more abuse true religion and induce erours amongest the people We say that wee must pray only vnto God in the name of Christ and vnto none other your Church of Rome saith That wee must pray vnto the saints departed and vse them as meanes for vs vnto God. Neuerthelesse God saith Call vpon mee in the day of trouble I wil heare thee Dauid The Prophet saith When I was in trouble I called vpon the Lord and he heard me And againe he saith I will confesse my sinnes vnto the Lorde and so hee forgaue me the wickednesse of my sinne Christ saith Whatsoeuer you aske my Father in my name hee will giue it you Shewe me now by what aucthoritie of scripture you can disprooue this and prooue your inuocation of Saintes we say That it is god onely which forgiueth sinnes that for Christes sake whose blood doth purge vs froÌ„ al sinne You say that the Pope can forgiue sinne and giue pardon for many hundred yea thousand yeares and that he can doo
hath cast away Gods holie â— worshipping images and idols and goâ—horing from God after her owne inâ—ns hath rebelled against the words â— Lord and despised the counsell of the â— high Therefore came the iust iudgeâ— of God vppon her as it did vppon the â—sh church of old Where the Lord saith your iniquities are ye solde and for â—r transgressions is your mother forsaken Againe Pleade with your â—ther pleade with her for shee is not wife neither am I her husband buâ— her take away her fornications c. I make her like a wildernesse and â— her for thirst and I wil haue no pitieâ— on her children for they are childreâ— fornication Loe this is the iudgemeâ— that Romish harlot which hath her dâ—ling in that great citie which ruleth â— the Kings of the earth who hath â— the kings of the earth drunken with cuppe of her fornication who is the â—rie mother of whoredome and of all the hominations of the earth which is druâ— with the bloud of the Saintes and with bloud of the martyrs of Christ who with tenne kings doeth fight against the Laâ— But the Lambe shall ouercome them â— they that be on his side the chosen â— faithful for he is the king of kings and Lord of lords To him be all honour and glorie for euer â— An answeare vnto the â–ª Papist which made this Offer or Challenge Papist CHrist did commit at his departing hence the testimonie of that trueth whiche he 〈◊〉 for the câ—â—uersion of all nations to the beliefe in him â—â—trâ—â— church of God which then stoode â—â—pally and almost onely in the persoâ—â— of â— Apostles and of a fewe moe that by their â—ching and others afterwarde of their â—ng the Christian religion might be planâ—â— all nations coastes and corners of the â—â— Wherefore I aske the Protestant â—t Church that was which conuerted all â—sâ— countries that nowe be Christen to the â—th of Christe and let him shewe me that â—er his Churche conuerted anie people or â—nde in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentiâ—â— or Iudaisme to the true religion of Christ or that this his faith was taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie or anie other Churche but the knowne Catholike Church to haue done this And I recant Answeare TRue it is that Christ did commit the preaching of the Gospell vnto the Apostles and vnto a few moe and gaue them this commaundemeÌ„t That they should go vnto all the world and preach the same Gospel vnto al nations who very painfully executed their office conuerted manie of sundrie countries to the truth Neuerthelesse suche was the rage of the wicked Emperoures Tyrantes of that time that the doctrine of the Gospel was not vniuersally receiued nor generally taught as it appeareth at large by the historie of the Acts of the Apostles as by the assembling of the Apostles in corners by their preaching in the night season in priuat houses Yet we confes that the voice of the Apostles was sounded abroad to al the world so that as Tertullian saith the Parthians the Medians the Elamites the people of Mesopotamia of Armenia c and many other nations and prouinces known vnknowen haue receiued the Gospel of Christ Saint Paule tooke comfort and reioyced in his imprisoment for that there were some euen in Neros court that beganne to geue eare to the Gospell Of the same matter writeth Eusebius that the court of Valerian the Emperour was now become the church of god so he saieth because that some of his familie beleued the truth albeit the Emperour himself was a tyrant Euen in that sense it might haue bene truelie saide that the churche of God was in king Achab his house when wicked Iezabel his wife did most of all persecute Goddes children and when Elias complained that he onelie was left aliue seeing that Obadiah gouernour of Achabs house feared God and fed an hundred Prophetes with the meate whiche came from Iezabels table But for breâ—ities sake I will answeare to youre queâ—ion which seemeth to consist on these two â—ointes First What Church it was which â—onuerted all countries that nowe be Chriâ—ten to the faith of Christe Secondarilie whether the religion or faith of the Protestantes was euer taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie Whosoeuer shall diligently peruse the ecclesiasticall histories or the bookes of the auncient Fathers of the churche they shall easily perceaue with what difficultie Christianitie was embraced sith that the name of Christ was so odious to the Emperour of Rome whose Empire was exceeding large thaâ— whosoeuer professed himselfe to be a Christian was tormented moste cruelly vnto death So that it cannot bee proued that manie nations or countries were wholly christened or receiued the gospel of Christ but in secrete manner vntill the time of Constantine the great which was three hundred yeares after Christ or thereabout For before that time whosoeuer sincerelie preached the Gospell hee was forthwith accused of sedicion of preaching heresie and of new strange doctrine They were charged commonly by the Heathen to bee adulterers against kinde Manquellers Killers of children Churchrobbers most wicked most hurtful the enimies of mankinde guiltie of all kinde of wickednesse Enimies against the Goddes against the Emperoures against the lawes against good order against nature it selfe whatsoeuer mischiefe happened the Ethnikes 〈◊〉 impute it alwayes to the Christians The citie of Athens which had beene the â—â—â—taine of all knowledge was become the sinke of most horrible idolatrie Where Pâ—ule preaching Christ the Philosophers â—â—â—e Epicures and Stoikes resisted him 〈◊〉 saide what will this babler say â–ª Others said he semeth to be a setter forth of strange Gods Others saide may we nâ—t know what this new doctrine wherâ—â— thou spekest is in such rage the Ethniks and Infidels continued against the Christians vntill God of his mercie raised vp that worthie Emperour Constantine who aduaunced mightely the Gospell suppresâ—â—â— the enimies thereof and gaue the truth free passage throughout his dominion and â—mpire In his time all nations were called from Idolatrie Gentilitie and Iudaisme so continued manie hundred yeares vntill the Diuel was let loose and superstiâ—on inuaded the churche so that albeit â—e name of Christianitie remained afterâ—arde vnder the Popes gouernement yet Christes religion was abolished and abanâ—oned It is faith in Iesus Christe and â—he profession of true religion whiche maketh a Christian and not the outward name and therefore suche as were falle away from Christ his Gospell vnto the inuentions of man or suche as were coÌ„uerte onelie in name not being instructed in trâ— doctrine were no more Christians then the shadowe of a man is a man orâ— picture the thing which it doth represenâ— so that it was Nomen sinere Christian iâ— name and not in deede By the Turke aâ— so both the name and profession of a Christian was altogether vanquished Thuâ— much for
thy heade meaning thâ— woman Which text the Louanistes woulâ— seeme to reforme do put in ipse referring it to Christ You may see into what miseries you woulde bring vs to haue vs to beleue that the Virgin Marie should brusâ— the Serpents head whereas the words are to be vnderstanded of the seede of the woman Likewise in the Epistle vnto the Corinthians your olde translation hath these wordes Omnes quideÌ„ resurgemus â–ª sed non omnes imutabimur Wee shall all rise againe but wee shall not all be changed Which words be vntruely translated for all shall not rise againe because that at Christes comming some shall be founde aliue yet neuerthelesse All must be chaunged and this corruptible flesh must put on corruptioÌ„ But you wil perhaps say that the fault is not in the translation but in the Printer Why then hath your Church suffered the same translation to haue beene printed so often and hath not corrected these faultes Nay why with your Tridentine generall councell precisely say Let no man be so bolde or presume by any manner of colour to refuse the old common translation of the Bible To conclude you persuade the world if you haue authoritie not onely to allowe what translation ye list but also as your owne Canonistes doe auouch that the Pope the heade of your Church can at 〈◊〉 pleasure dispense against the Lawe of God against the Lawe of nature against the Apostles against all the commaundements of the olde and newe Testament That hee is Christes Lieftetenaunt not onely ouer thinges in heauen ouer thinges in earth and ouer things â—â— hell but also ouer the angels both good and badde whereas the true Church of God hath not at any time made her selfe â—â—udge ouer the worde and lawe of God 〈◊〉 alwaies hath vsed subiection vnto the â—â—â—e grounding all her religion and faith â—â—on the same worde And this you must needes confesse vnlesse you will denie a knowen trueth that we whose religion you doe so vehemently withstande haue alwayes perswaded the people not to beleeue vs one iotte further then we bring the woorde of God for our warrant And whereas you further enquire what Church hath had the custodie of the Bible and hath most safely preserued it I must needes say that God of his singuler mercie towardes his Churche by his diuine prouidence hath alwayes preserued his woorde to the comforte of his children as he preserued Elias in the wildernesse Daniel in the Lions denne the three children in the fornace Howe I pray you hath the Byble bene preserued by your Churche sith the whole worlde can testifie howe you haue burned the olde and newe Testament whiche thing is yet freshe in mans memorieâ— Did not Cutbert Tunstall being then Bishop of London cause the newe Testament to be burned at Pawles crosse in London as your Churche learned of Iehoakim king of Iuda who threw the boke which the Prophete Ieremie by Goddes commaundement had indited conteining the wrath of God against Iuda into the fier But you will say the Testamentes were falselie and vntrulie translated and therefore were burned If that had beene the cause it had bene your partes rather to haue disclosed and quoated forth the erroures and to haue amended the faultes Doeth the mother cast away the milke wherewith the children shoulde be nourished for that sometimes motes doe fall into it but rather culleth forth the moates giueth the Milke to the children euen so you ought to haue done What faultes were I beseech you in that translation you neuer noted anie if there had bene as indeede there were none why haue not you set forth a better what doctour of your Churche or fauorer of your Romishe Religion hath written in whose workes can not be found some errour yet we burned them not but are content to giue them the readinge and do reuerence them so farre as they agree with Gods truthe Further if â—n Angell should speake or write we ought not to beleue him Iudge you nowe laying away all affection whether your Church â—â— ours doe better esteme of the Bible or â—â— the better preserue the same Papist SHew me why our common knowen church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion contained in the same Shewe me why she kepte not as trulie and as faithfully the true sense of Gods woorde as she preserued the worde it selfe Shewe me why we shoulde beleeue the Papistes as ye tearme them for the worde it selfe and yet we shoulde beleeue you Protestantes for the meaning of the worde rather than them Shewe me why you beleeued our Churche telling you this to be Gods booke and will not credite her aduouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke and last of all shewe me why you beleeued the elder knowen Churche affirming this to be the word and doe not beleeue her affirming Luther to be an Heretike Shewe me good reason or Scripture for these poyntes and I recant Answeare YF you meane by your common knowen Churche the Churche of Rome as you will easily assent therevnto then your Church is more common than true For triall whereof it is plaine and that by Saint Barnarde that the pastoures of your Churche of Rome keepe not the spouse of God whiche is his Churche but they destroy her They keepe not the flock but they kill and deuoure And one whiche writeth of your Church in that great and solemne assemblie at Constance saieth They did quenche the spirite they did dispise the voice of the prophetes they persecuted Christ in his members and it was altogether a persecuting churche Barnard in an other place likewise crieth out O miserable Rome which in the time of our Elders hast brought foorth the lightes of worthie Fathers but in our dayes hast brought forth the monstruous darkenes shamefull and slanderous to the time to come An other calleth Rome a schoole of errour a temple of heresie And your old friend Thomas Becket whome you haue canonized for a Saint saith Our holy mother of Rome is become an harlot and hath prostituted her self that is hath set her selfe open to euerie man for reward And what neede we goe farre one of your owne nest in the late councell of Trent sheweth his iudgement of your Churche of Rome They haue brought to passe saieth he that godlinesse is turned into hypocrisie and that the sauoure of life is turned into the sauour of death Woulde to GOD they were not gone with one generall consent from religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist from God to Epicure saying with wicked heartes and filthie mouthes there is no god Truth seketh not to be shrouded in corners I haue noted before a fewe places amongst many in which you haue corrupted the text of the Byble You seeme to vrge this matter instantly that your Church hath kept and
auouched truely and faithfully the true sense of the Scripture and doo merueile verie much why wee will not giue credit vnto you I will giue you a taste of a fewe places which your Church hath fouly wrythed Where the Apostles yet so rude that they thought with outward weapons to withstand the enemies doo offer vnto Christ two swoordes Pope Boniface doth expound these words saying behold two swords that is to say the Pope hath the power both of the spiritual sword of the teÌ„poral So they apply corruptly the psalmist thou hast made al things subiect vnto him that is to say to the Pope the catel of the field that is to say men liuing in the earth the fishes of the sea that is to say soules in purgatory the birdes of heaueÌ„ that is to say the soules of the blessed in heaueÌ„ Pope Alexander treading most cruelly vppon the Emperour Frederiks neck abuseth this part of the Psalme Thou shalt walke vppon the Aspe and Basilisk the young Lyon and the Dragon shalt thou treade vnder thy feete What need many testimonies seeing that your church hath wrested the whole booke of the Psames which concerne God the father and his sonne Christ to magnifie the Virgin Mary withall that whereas shee acknowledgeth Christ to be her Sauiour and herselfe to be the handmaide of the Lorde you go about to make her a Goddesse and say that she is fidelissima Dei socia a felow mate with God. As also another of your Cardinals calleth her DominaÌ„ DeaÌ„ nostraÌ„ our Lady and Goddesse Where you say that your Church gaue vs knowledge â—f the holy Byble it is most vntrue for that you hidd the same in an vnknowne tongue and woulde not suffer the vnlearned to haue the vse thereof And albeit you very rashely impute heresie vnto Luther truely all the heresies which euer he maintained he sucked forth out of the nurcerie of your Church and treasury of your Pope Iâ— you knowe anie other in his writings sauing that he defended with you the real presence of Christs body in the Sacrament I would haue you to name it But it is youâ— accustomed wont to call vs heretikes although you be not able to prooue that wâ— defend any one heresie Neuerthelesse wâ— must be content to beare your woordes foâ— so the olde Prophets were charged with â—â—dition and heresie and so Tertullus charged Paule the Apostle beginning his oration with flatterie and ending the samâ— with a manifest vntruth We haue saitâ— he found this man a pestilent fellowe â— mouer of sedition among all the Iewes throughout the worlde and a chiefe maintainer of the sect or heresie of the Nazarets for so the wicked tearmed the true Christian religion as you doe and to answere you fully we say with the Apostle That after the way which you cal heresie so woorship we the liuing God and his sonne Christ beleeuing all thinges which be written in the Lawe the Prophets and the Gospell Papist AGaine what Church is that which hath exercised by Christes appointment discipline vpon offenders in all degrees and for that purpose hath continually executed lawes and canons ecclesiasticall with excommunication degradation suspension and suche like Proue me this geare to haue proceeded from Protestantes or from anie other Churche then from the Catholike and Irecant Answeare Concerning discipline First you alledge excoÌ„munication the true vse whereof you neuer had in your Church of Rome sichens it firste declined from the auncient Church of Rome Now as a bloudie mother you send out the thunderboltes of excoÌ„munication against all those which reiect your superstitious traditions euen like your grandfathers the Pharisies who in the time of our sauiour Christ did excoÌ„municate all those which did truely conâ—â—â—se Christ and yet thought they pleased â—â—d highly Iohn truely did prophesie of 〈◊〉 Church that she should excoÌ„muniâ—â—â—e and kill all suche as woulde not worship the image of the beast that is â—â—â—eiue the ordinaunces and decrees of the sea of Rome Excommunication wâ— not vsed in the primitiue Church but â— graue offences as appeareth by the Apâ—stle Paule who did excommunicate one â— incest and Himeneus and Alexander â— making shipwracke of the faith of Chriâ— They did not in the primitiue Church â— communicate without the consent of tâ— clergie people which discipline decaâ—ing in Saint Ambrose his time at thâ— least in the church where he was he lamâ—teth in these wordes The olde congregation saith he and the Church following had Seniors without whose counsell nothing was done but I knowe noâ— by what negligence it did grow out oâ— vse vnlesse it were either by the sloth fulnes or rather the pride of the pastors whilest they onely would seeme to haue the preheminence Saint Cyprian disputing this matter at large speaketh after this maner Euer since I was Bishop I determined to doe nothing without theâ— councell of the cleargie and consent of the people But you doe vse this kinde of discipline or rather abuse it priuatly in euery light monie matter but chiefâ—ie against suche as will not embrace your Romishe traditions Iohannes Scotus alias Duns one of your Capitaines who liued about the yeere of our Lorde 1336. complaineth of the abuse of your excommunication and of the Papes keyes sayinâ—â— That excommunication before his time was not vsed but vppon greate and iuste causes and therefore feared but nowe saith he it is broched and published for euerie trifle and therefore groweth in contempt Furthermore you doe neither excommunicate degrade or suspende except it be a verie great chaunce for anie other cause then is aforesaide You haue rules to dispense with your gelding Priestes Si non caste tameÌ„ caute If that thou canst not liue chaste yet play the whoremonger cunningly You degrade some and when you haue taken your Popish robes from them you turne their bodies to ashes by cruell fier But to knitte vp all in fewe wordes our Sauiour Christe did not promise to â—â—ue behinde him a Church which should â—â—ecute suche ecclesiasticall discipline as â—â—u haue prescribed or shoulde alwayes â—â—twardly in great pompe appeare to the â—ewe of the whole world But he calleth â—â—s Churche a little flocke shewing them before hand that in the world They shouâ— weepe and lament and haue tribulatâ—on that the world shoulde reioyce bâ— they shoulde be sadde and that as all thâ— wicked persecuted him the Lord so shouâ— they persecute them his seruauntes dâ— proue this and I recant Papist AND because Christ as Saint Pauâ— saith hath established in his Chuâ—che some Apostles some Preachers some teachers and Doctoures eueâ— till his comming againe I aske the Protestant what Church that is which is ablâ— to shew and proue the continuance and vsâ— of those functions euer since Christ his time by plaine accompt of orderly succession and is able to name by the hystories of all ages the notable persons of al the