whom they being not satisfied in the answer of an offender may appeale unto and in so doing tell the Church such a small number may be a Church and may have the blessing of his presence to be among them ll Ibid. p. 8 9. When a visible Church is to be erected it is necessary that in respect of quantity it be no more in number in the dayes of the New Testament but so many as may meet in one Congregation mm Ibid. p. 15. The Church is before the Ministers seeing the power of chusing Ministers is given to the Church by Christ nn Ibid. p. 68. The Church that hath no Officers may elect Officers unto themselves therefore it may also ordaine them if it hath power from Christ for the one and that the greater it hath also for the other which is the lesser now Ordination is lesse then Election oo Ibid. p. 42. Vnto the 13 question whether you think it convenient that a company of private and illiterate persons should ordinarily examine elect ordaine and depose their Ministers a part of the answer to this question is if there were none among them who had humane learning we doe not see how this could hinder them of their Liberty to chuse Ministers purchased to them by Christs precious blood for they that are fit matter to be combined into a Church body have learned the Doctrine of the holy Scriptures in the fundamentall points thereof they have learned to know the Lord in their owne hearts therefore they may not bee reproached as illiterate or unworthy to chuse their owne Ministers nay they have the best learning without which all other learning is but madnesse and folly pp Plaine Dealing p. 3. They set a day for the Ordination of their Officers and appoint some of themselves to impose hands upon them where there are Ministers or Elders before they impose their hands upon the new Officers but where there is none there some of their chiefest men two or three of good report amongst them though not of the Ministry doe by appointment of the same Church lay hands upon them Cottons way p. 40 41. Towards the end of the day one of the Elders of the Church if they have any if not one of the graver Brethren of the Church appointed by themselves to order the work of the day standeth up and enquireth in the Church c. he advertiseth him who is chosen what duties the Lord requireth of him in that place towards the Church then with the Presbytery of that Church if they have any or if not with two or three others of the gravest Christians among the Brethren of that Church being deputed by the body he doth in the name of the Lord Jesus ordaine him to that Office with imposition of hands calling upon the Lord and so turning the speech to the person on whom their hands are imposed he as the mouth of the Presbytery expresses their Ordination of him and puts a solemne charge upon him to look well to himselfe and the flock After this the Elders of other Churches present observing the presence of God in the orderly proceeding of the Church to the Officers Election and Ordination one of them in the name of all the rest doth give unto him the right hand of Fellowship in the sight of all the Assembly qq Answer to the 32 questions p. 48. If the Church hath power by election to chuse a Minister and so power of instituting him then of destituting also Instituere destituere ejusdem est potestatis rr Ibid. p. 44. We conceive that every Church properly so called though they bee not above ten persons or the least number that you mention have right and power from Christ to transact all their owne Ecclesiasticall businesse if so be they be able and carry matters justly for the power of the Keyes Matth. 16.19 is committed by Christ unto the Church ss Cottons Catechism p. 10. It is committed to the Presbytery to prepare matters for the Churches hearing tt Answer to the 32 quest p. 60. In this sense matters with us are carried according to the vote of the major part that is with the joynt consent of the whole Church but yet because it is the mind of Christ ww The propositions to which almost all our Elders did agree when they were assembled together the first the Fraternity is the first subject of all Presbyteriall power radicaliter id est causatim per modum collationis non habitualiter non actualiter non formaliter xx Anatom p. 26. I heare of no ruling Elders that ever Mr Simpson had in his Church Anatomist anatomised p. 12. It is true de facto wee had none but were resolved to have them Notwithstanding this answer of Mr Simpsons that Church of Rotterdam to this day hath never had a Presbytery after more then seven yeares delay yy Antap. p. 52. Pastors are necessary Officers in your Churches and yet according to your practises your Churches are many yeares without them zz Keyes p. 10. Authority is a morall power and a superiour Order or State binding or releasing an inferiour in point of subjection Christ hath given no Iurisdiction but to whom he hath given office The Key of power in a large sense or Liberty is in the Church but the Key of authority or rule in a more strict sense is in the Elders of the Church aaa Excommunication is one of the highest acts of Rule and therfore cannot bee performed but by some Rulers now where all the Elders are culpable there be no Rulers left in that Church to censure them as therefore the Presbytery cannot excommunicate the whole Church though apostate for they must tell the Church and joyne with the Church in that censure so neither can the Church excommunicate the whole Presbytery because they have not received from Christ an Office of Rule without their Officers Ib. preface p. 4. He gives unto the Elders or Presbytery a binding power of Rule and Authority peculiar unto them and to the Brethren distinct and apart an interest of power and priviledge to concurre with them and that such affaires should not be transacted but with the joynt agreement of both though out of a different Right so that as a Church of Brethren only could not proceed to any publike censures without they have Elders over them so neither in the Church have the Elders power to censure without the concurrence of the people so as each alone have not power of excommunicating the whole of either though together they have power over any particular person or persons in each bbb Ibid. also Keyes p. 13. Else the Brethren have a power of order and the priviledge to expostulate with their brethren in case of private scandals so in case of publike scandall the whole Church of brethren have power and priviledge to joyne with the Elders in inquiring hearing judging of publike scandals so as to bind notorius offenders and impenitents under censure and
Thus farre the most of their reasons doe carry if they have any force at all Secondly the Antecedent may well be denyed all that the Apostle speaks to the Collossians indefinitely must not be expounded of every one of the people This precept of speaking to Archippus could not be better performed then by the Presbytery whereof Archippus was a Member Thirdly the consequence is invalid They might admonish therefore excommunicate Every admonition is not in order to censure it is a morall duty incumbent to every one to admonish lovingly and zealously his Brother when there is cause it is a sinne and disobedience to God if we let sinne lye upon any whom we by our counsell and admonition can helpe but to conclude that we have power to Excommunicate every man whom in duty wee ought to admonish is an absurdity which none of the Separatists will well digest Fifthly From Revel 2.14.20 The whole Churches of Pergamus and Tâ—yatira are rebuked for suffering wicked Hereticks to live among them uncensured Ergo it was the duty of all the Church to censure them Answer First the conclusion is for a power to the people to censure which our Brethren now deny Secondly The Antecedent may be denied for the fault of that impious Toleration is not laid upon the whole Church but expresly upon the Angell Thirdly the consequence is not good The whole Church might be reproved for a neglect of their duty in not inciting and incouraging their Officers to censure these Hereticks but a reproofe for this neglect inferreth not that it was the peoples duty to execute these censures Thus much our Brethren will not avow Sixthly They reason from Revel 4.4 The foure and twenty Elders sate on Thrones in white Robes with Crownes on their heads Ergo Every one of the Church hath a power of judging as Kings with Crownes sitting on their Thrones Answer First the conclusion ever inferres the full Tenet of the Separatists Secondly the consequence is very weake except many things be supposed which will not be granted without strong proofes first that this Type is argumentative for the matter in hand secondly that this place is relative to the Church on earth rather then to that in heaven thirdly that these Elders doe typifie the people rather then the Officers fourthly that the Thrones and Crownes import a Kingly Office in every Christian to be exercised in Church censures upon their brethren more then the white robes doe inferre the Priestly Office of every Christian to be exercised in Preaching the Word and celebrating the Sacraments Seventhly They reason from Galatian 5.1.13 the Galatians were called unto Liberty whereto they behoved to stand fast as to a priviledge purchased by Christ his blood Ergo Every one of them had a power to cut off their Officers Answer This is the Scripture whereupon our Brethren have lately fallen and make more of it then of any other I confesse their reasoning from it seemes to me the most unreasonable throwing of the holy Scripture that I have readily seene in any Disputant The whole scope of the place carrying evidentty a liberty from the burthen and servitude of the Law Their fathering upon it a new and unheard of sense to wit a priviledge of Church censures without any authority or proper power therein is very strange they cannot produce any Scripture where the word Liberty hath any such sense and though they could yet to give the word that sense in this place where so clearely it is referred to a quite diverse matter it seemeth extremely unreasonable Eightly Thus they reason The whole Congregation of Israel had power to punish Malefactors as in the case of Gibea in the message of Israel to the two Tribes halfe also the people had power to rescue from the hands of the Magistrates as in the case of Jonathan from Saul Answer The consequence is null for the practise of the Israelites in their civill state is no sufficient rule for the proceedings of the Church of the New Testament Our Brethren would beware of such Arguments least by them they entertaine the jealousie which some professe they have of their way fearing it be builded upon such principles as will set up the common people not onely above their Officers in the Church but also above their Magistrate in the State That it draw in a popular government and Ochlocracie both in Church and State alike Ninthly They thus reason Who ever doe elect the Officers they have power to ordaine them and upon just cause to depose and excommunicate them But the people do elect their Officers Ergo. Answer The major is denied for first election is no act of power suppose it to be a priviledge yet there is no Jurisdiction in it at all but Ordination is an act of Jurisdiction it is an authoritative mission and putting of a man into a spirituall Office The people though they have the right and possession by Scripturall practise of the one yet they never had either the right or the possession of the other Secondly suppose the Maxime were true whereof yet I much doubt unlesse it be well limited Ejus est destituere cuius instituere that they who give authority have power to take it backe againe yet we deny that the people who elect give any authority or office at all their election is at most but an Antecedent Sine quo non it is the Presbytery onely who by their Ordination doe conferre the Office upon the elect person Finally They argue No act of Jurisdiction is vâ—lid without the peoples consent Ergo to every act of Jurisdiction the peoples presence and concurrence is necessary Answer The antecedent in many cases is false a gracious Orthodoxe Minister may be ordained a Pastor to a Hereticall people against their consent an Hereticall Pastor who hath seduced all his flocke may be removed from them against their passionate desires to keepe him but the Consequent is more vitious where ever consent is requisite their presence much lesse authoritative concurrence is not necessary all the souldiers are not present at the Counsell of War and yet the decrees of that Counsell of War can not be executed without the consent and action of the Souldiers every member of the Church of Antioch was not present at the Synod of Jerusalem diverse members of the Independent Congregations are absent from many Church determinations to the which upon their first knowledge they doe agree CHAP. X. Independencie is contrary to the Word of God THe Divine Wisedome which found it expedient for man before the Fall not to live alone hath made it much more needfull for man to live in Society after his weakning by sinne Woe to him that is alone for if he fall who shall raise him up The best wits of themselves are prone to errors and miscarriages and left alone are inclined to run on in any evill way they have once begunne But engagement in
esteem in the hearts of the people they would be sure still to father their opinions upon them and say I hold nothing but what I had from such and such a man Ibid. p. 65. She pretended she was of Master Cottons judgement in all things M Williams Examination p. 12. Some few yeers since he was upon the point to separate from the Churches there as legal Ibidem p. 33. How could I possibly be ignorant as he seems to charge me of their estate when being from first to last in Fellowship with them an Officer amongst them had private and publike agitations concerning their estate with all or most of their Ministers N Short story Preface p. 7. By this time they had to patronise them some of the Magistrates and some men eminent for Religion Parts and Wit Ibidem p. 25. Master Wheelwright had taught them that the former Governour and some of the Magistrates then were friends of Christ and Free-grace but the present were enemies The former Governour never stirred out but attended by the Serjeants with Halberts or Carrabines but the present Governour was neglected Ibid. p. 35. After that she had drawn some of eminent place and parts to her party whereof some profited so well as in a few moneths they out-went their Teacher Ibidem p. 33. Vpon the countenance which it took from some eminent persons her opinions began to hold up their heads in the Court of Justice N 2. Ibidem p. 32. It was a wonder upon what a sudden the whole Church of Boston some few excepted were become her new converts and infected with her opinions Ibid. Preface p. 7. In the Church of Boston most of these Seducers lived Ibid. p. 36. The Court laid to her charge the reproach she had cast upon the Ministery in this Countrey saying That none of them did preach the Covenant of Free-grace but Master Cotton She told them that there was a wide difference between Master Cottons Ministery and theirs and that they could not hold forth a Covenant of Free-grace because they had not the Seal of the Spirit Ibidem p. 50. All the Ministers consented to this except their Brother the Teacher of Boston Ibid. p. 52. Master Wheelwright being present spoke nothing though he well discerned that the judgement of the most of the Magistrates and near all the Ministers closed with the affirmative Ibidem p. 21. Albeit the Assembly of the Churches had confuted and condemned most of these new opinions and Master Cotton had in publike view consented with the rest yet the Leaders in these Erroneous wayes stood still to maintain their new Light Master Wheelwright also continued his preaching after his former manner and Mistresse Hutchinson her wonted meetings and exercises and much offence was still given by her and others in going out of the ordinary Assemblies When Mr. Wilson the Pastor of Boston began any exercise it was conceived by the Magistrate that the case was now desperate and it was determined to suppresse them by Civil Authority O Apologetical Narration p. 5. We had likewise the fatal miscarriages and shipwracks of the Separation whom you call Brownists as Land-marks to forewarn us of these Rocks and Shelves they run upon Cottons Letter to Williams pag. 12. I said that God had not prospered the way of Separation because he hath not blessed it either with peace among themselves or with growth of grace The Lord Jesus never delivered that way of Separation to which they bear witnesse nor any of his Apostles after him nor of his Prophets before him We do not come forth to help them against Jehovah this were not to help Jehovah but Satan against him We cannot pray in Faith for a blessing upon their Separation which we see not to be of God nor to lead to him It is little comfort to the true Servants of Christ that such inventions of men are multiplied P Answer to the thirty two Questions p. 7. Whether is the greater number these that are admitted to Church-Communion or these that are not we cannot certainly tell Q 1. Plain dealing p. 73. Here such confessions and professions are required both in private and publike both by men and women before they be admitted that three parts of the people of the Countrey remain out of the Church so that in short time most of the people will remain unbaptised Q 2. Williams of the name Heathen p. 6. Nations protesting against the Beast no Papists but Protestants may we say of them that they or any of them may be called in true Scripture sence Heathens that is the Nations or Gentiles in opposition to the people of God which is the onely Holy Nation Such a departure from the Beast in a false constitution of National Churches if the bodies of Protestant Nations remain in an unregenerate estate Christ hath said they are but as Heathens and Publicans Q 3. Plain dealing p. 21. There hath not been any sent forth by any Church to learn the Natives language or to instruct them in our Religion first because they say they have not to do with them being without except they come to hear and learn English R Williams of the name Heathen p. 10. For our New-England parts I can speak it confidently I know it to have been easie for my self long ere this to have brought many thousands of these Natives yea the whole Countrey to a far greater Antichristian conversion then ever was heard of in America I could have brought the whole Countrey to have observed one day in seven I adde to have received Baptism to have come to a stated Church meeting to have maintained Priests and Forms of Prayer and a whole form of Antichristian worship in life and death S Ibid. p. 11. Wo be to me if I call that conversion to God which is indeed the subversion of the souls of millons in Christendom from one false worship to another Williams Key unto the language of America p. 9. To which I could easily have brought the Countrey but that I was perswaded and am that Gods way is first to turn a soul from its idols both of heart worship and conversation before it is capable of worship to the true God T Short story p. 32. Many good souls were brought to waite for this immediate revelation then sprung up also that opinion of the indwelling of the person of the Holy Ghost Ibidem Preface p. 13. That their own revelations of particular events were as infallible as the Scripture V Short story Preface pag. 2. Sin in a childe of God must never trouble him Trouble in conscience for sins of Commission or for neglect of duties sheweth a man to be under a Covenant of Works X Short story Preface p. 2. A Christian is not bound to the Law as the rule of his conversation Y Ibid. p. 3. No Christian must be pressed to duties of Holinesse Z Short story Preface p. 13. Their Leaders fell into more hideous delusions as that the souls of
a do these two divided Churches are brought together it may be much doubted if their Union shall long continue Certainly it seems not to be so cordial as that of the two lately divided and now reunited Churches aâ— Amsterdam For among these of Roterdam not onely the grounds of the old division do evidently remain but also the Seeds of a new breach do appear above the ground The liberty of Prophecying which Master Simpsons now Master Simons Congregation did require is not obtained in the way they desired it for they are not permitted to Prophecy in the Congregation nor upon the Sabbath day nor in the place of publike meeting Onely in a private place on a week day where some of the Church who please do meet they have liberty to exercise their gifts On the other part what Master Bridges now Mr. Parks Church did require I mean a Presbytery for Government in the Congregation cannot be obtained For however they professe the lawfulnesse and conveniency of Ruling Elders and of a Consistory for Discipline yet it hath so faln out that for many yeers they have had none neither are like in haste to have unlesse the grumbling of Master Parks and his friends threatning a new breach do force them at last to the use of that Ordinance But that which threatneth not a Schisme alone but a total dissolution of that Congregation is the Pest of Anabaptism which begins of late much to infect them P It is true the Pastors do their best to reclaim all their members from that Errour and when they finde themselves not able to prevail give good words and assurances of a full and Brotherly Toleration for as they scruple not to give the hand of Fellowship to the Brownists of Amsterdam Q so will they not cast out any from their Church for denying of Pedobaptism if the dissenting and erring party be pleased to remain peaceably amongst them But here is the pitty when the Independents have declared their greatest readinesse to tolerate and entertain in their Churches both the rigid Separatists and the Anabaptists R yet the most of those are unwilling to stay but are peremptory to separate from the Independent Churches as more corrupt then that they with a good conscience can abide in them though never so much tolerated and cherished As for their Church at Arnhem howsoever their small intercourse with others during their abode in that remote corner and their taciturnity of their own affairs makes their proceedings to lie under a Cover yet so much of their wayes is come to light upon divers occasions as will not be very inductive and alluring of indifferent spirits to tred in their footsteps First We finde them greater admirers of themselves and proclaimers of their own excellency then is the custome of modest and wise though the best and greatest men They think it not enough to anoint their Masters and Friends of New-England with excessive praises as men who have not been matched by any of the Saints since the dayes of Abraham S but they are also bold to sound out to themselves in Print in the ears of both Houses of Parliament a commendation much above the possible merit of any so small a number of men in the whole world The Synod of Roterdam they equal to the most solemn National Assemblies of either or both Kingdoms T This exceeding great worth upon whose head must it fall but either alone or far most principally upon the Members of the Church of Arnhem For that Synod did consist of no other but the two Doctors of that Church and the two Elders thereof together with Master Bridge and the Members of his Church These last were present in that Synod as persons challenged and guilty of a grievous scandal so to them in that action but a small praise can be due Wherefore the supereminent Excellency of that meeting must fall upon the Commissioners of Arnhem the onely persons which in that meeting were void of offence and free from challenges To themselves therefore it is alone or at least above all others that they ascribe the superlative praises of that Synod In that same place they stick not to take to themselves the honour of so great sincerity as any flesh in the world not onely hath at this present but possibly can attain in any following Age V We wonder the lesse to hear them canonize their Colleague Master Archer after his death among the most precious persons who ever trod upon the earth X This self-overvaluing seems to be the ground why they cry out of their very moderate afflictions as of great calamities they ingeminate to the Parliament over and over their persecution their poverty their miserable exile Y when they who understand the case give assurance that not one of Ten of the most prosperous Ministers of the whole world in the time of their greatest Sunshine do live in more wealth ease honour and all worldly accommodations then these poor miserable exiles did enjoy all the time of that which they call their banishment Z My next observation upon that Church is that an humour of innovating at least if not a spirit of errour did much predomine among them To passe by that wantonnesse of wit which in their Books and Discourses doth much appear whereby they attribute without fear to a number of Scriptures such new and strange senses as before them were never heard of We finde them pleasing themselves in divers Doctrines which no Reformed Church doth assert for truth yea their own Brethren both of New-England and of Roterdam and of Amsterdam do reject as Errours They are not content with some few little touches of Chiliasm which yet Master Cotton tells us are but fleshly imaginations AA But they run themselves over head and ears in the deepest gulph of that old Heresie The glimpse of Sions glory Preached at a Fast in Holland by T. G. which common report without any contradiction that I have heard declares to be Thomas Goodwin averrs That Independency is a beginning or at least a neer antecedent of Christs Kingdom upon Earth BB That within five yeers Christ is to come in the flesh CC and by a Sword of Iron to kill with his own hand the most of his enemies DD and thereafter to passe over a thousand yeers EE as a worldly Monarch FF with his Saints Who shall live with him all that time in all sorts of fleshly delights GG Master Archer the onely Pastor that ever they had whose praises they sound forth so loud in their Apologetick would perswade us of the same and more grosse stories HH Master Burrows in his late Sermons upon Hosea runs in the same way II. Neither is this all the new Light that did shine forth in the Candlestick of Arnhem but there also Master Archer giveth forth for the comfort of his hearers without the reproof so far as yet we have heard of any of his Colleagues
added it shall begin in the 1650. but it comes not to full head till fourty five yeers more DD Ibid. In the Epistle take this rule That all Texts of Scripture are to be understood literally except they make against other Scriptures or except the very coherence of the Scripture shew it otherwise Ibid. p. 17. Indeed if we be put upon allegorical senses we may put off any Scripture but if we take them literally why should we not Ibid. p. 21. Christ is described in the 19. of the Revelation with his Garments dyed in blood when he doth appear to come and to take the Kingdom when he appears with many Crowns upon his head that notes his many victories Ibid. p. 17. The promise that is made Revel 12. He shall rule them with a Rod of Iron and as the Vessels of a Potter they shall be broken to shivers What shall we make of this EE Ibid. p. 14 15. The raigning with Christ 1000. yeers is not meant of raigning with him in Heaven but it must be meant of Jesus Christs coming and raigning here gloriously for 1000 yeers FF Ibid. p. 17. What shall we make of this except there be a glorious raign of Christ with the Saints Christ is said to make them Kings so as to have power and dominion in the world GG Ibid. p. 13. There is no reason why that of the 26. of Matth. v. 29 I will drink it new with you in my Fathers Kingdom may not be taken litterally HH Archers personal raign p. 5. I call this last state of his Monarchical because he will govern as earthly Monarchs have done that is universally over the world in these dayes known and esteemed and in a worldly visible earthly glory not by tyranny oppression and sensually but with honour peace riches and whatsoever in and of the world is not sinful having all Nations and Kingdoms doing homage to him as the great Monarchs of the World had II Burrows upon Hosea p. 145. These are the new Heavens and the new Earth that are to be created and this is meant of the Church plainly For the Text Verse 12. speaks of building houses and inhabiting them and of planting Vineyards and eating the fruit of them upon these new Heavens and this new Earths Creation Ibid. p. 191. And literally we are to understand many Scriptures that tend this way concerning the fruitfulnesse of the Earth and the outward external glory that then shall be in the Creatures KK Archers comfort for beleevers p. 41. God may as truely and easily have a will and hand in and be the Author of sins as of afflictions Ibid. We may safely say that God is and hath an hand in and is the Author of the sinfulnesse of his people LL Ibid. p. 36. The fear of some of these inconveniences hath made Divines not to acknowledge so much of God in sin as is in sin They have erred on the other hand and made sin more of the Creature and it self and lesse from God then it is They grant that God is willing sin should be and that he permits it and orders circumstances about its production and hath an hand in and is the Author of the Physical or Moral act in and with which sin is but the essence of sin that is the Pravity and Ataxy the Anomy and Irregularity of the act which is the sinfulnesse of it God hath no hand neither is he any Author at all thereof This opinion goes wrong another way and gives not to God enough in sin Let us imbrace and professe the truth and not fear to say that of God which he in his holy Book saith of himself namely That of him and from his hand is not onely the thing that is sinful but the pravity and sinfulnesse of it MM A short Declaration of the Assembly by way of Detestation of the abominable and blasphemous opinion The Order of the House of Lords runs thus Complaint being this day made to the Lords in Parliament by the Assembly of Divines that a certain blasphemous and heretical Book intituled Comfort for Beleevers is printed and published being written by John Archer their Lordships much abhorring the said blasphemies do award and adjudge that the said Book shall be burnt by the hand of the common Hangman NN Doctor Stewarts Duply to M. S. second part pag. 128. Not long since I heard one of the Ringleaders of the Independents Sect deliver this doctrine in a Sermon at the Abbey of Westminster viz. That to a saving knowledge of God it sufficeth not to know him in the Book of nature or secondly as revealed in the holy Scriptures but that we must also know him as abstract from his mercy and all his attributes OO Ibid. If I know God abstracted from his mercy I know him out of Christ and out of the Gospel for God in Christ and in the Gospel is not abstract but concrete with mercy If God be considered as abstract from all his attributes it is no more a knowledge of God but some idol of the Independent brains PP Antap. p. 36. Master Good win did anoint a Gentlewoman whose name I conceal when she was sick and she recovered after it say they QQ Ibid. Anointing the sick with Oyl was held in that Church of Arnhem as a standing Ordinance for Church-Members as laying on of hands was a standing Ordinance for Church-Officers RR Ibid. p. 60. I propound it to you whether a little before your coming over into England some Members of the Church of Arnhem did not propone the Holy Kisse or the Kisse of Love to be practised by Church-Members Nay Whether by some persons in that Church was it not begun to be practised SS 1. Ibid. p. 36. A Gentleman of note in that Church did propone in the Church that singing of Hymns was an Ordinance which is that any person of the Congregation exercising their own gifts should bring an Hymn and sing it to the Congregation all the rest being silent and giving audience SS 2. Antap. p. 262. Some of Arnhem hold strange conceits Daily the Independent Churches like Affrica do breed and bring forth the Monsters of Anabaptism Antinomianism Familism nay That huge Monster and old fleeing Serpent of the Mortality of the soul of man SS 3. Ibid. p. 261. I have been told of some odde things preached by one of you five both in England and Holland and of some points Preached in the Church of Arnhem never questioned there and since Printed not very Orthodox as for instance among others That the souls of the Saints do not go to Heaven to be with Christ SS 4. Archers personal raign p. 23. This Objection supposes the souls of the dead Saints to be in the highest Heavens which is not so It is likely the souls of the dead Saints are not in the highest Heavens but in a middle place which is meant in the New Testament by paradise into this paradise went Christs soul and the theifs which was
time to Mr Calamy and pretends some reasons to borrow it for awhile but after he had it he carries it away into Yorkshire that so upon occasion of complaints of the breach of the agreement when we would have consulted with that paper it was gone and Mr Nye keeps it to this day and having been moved to restore it His answer is it is at Hull amongst other papers b Apollonius Letter to the 5 Apologists the 3 of May 1644. Hasce quaestiones ad vos reverendi viri transmitto de iisdem sententias vestras quaerens ob mutuam nostram fidem charitatem serio vos oro ut non detrectetis sincere dilucide accurate absque Rhetorici apparatus diverticulis declarare quid vos fratres illi quibuscum societatem vestram Ecclesiasticam colitis de hisce sentiant quoniam meae fidei ab Ecclesiis Christi id commissum est Spero vos ex timore dei charitate erga nos fratres vestros absque ullo pretextu sententias vestras hac de re declaraturos idque quam cito fieri potest urgent enim Ecclesiae nostrae ut opus hoc maturem This zealous adjuration hath not to this day drawn from any of them any declaration c Apol. Nar. p 30. A relation of our judgments in the points of difference about Church-Government we reserve unto the more proper season d Keyes Preface p. 6. Only we crave leave of the reverend Author to declare that we assent not to all expressions scattered up and down or to all and every assertion interwoven in it yea nor to all the grounds or allegations of Scriptures nor should we in all things perhaps have used the same termes to expresse the same materialls by e Apol. Nar. p. 10. A second principle we carried along with us in all our resolution was not to make our present judgement and practice a binding law unto our selves for the future and therefore in a jealousie of our selves wee kept this reseâ—ve to alâ—er and retract though not lightly what ever should be discovered to be taken up out of a misunderstanding of the rule which principle we wish were next to that most supreame enacted as the most sacred Law of all others f Cottons Keyes published by Goodwin and Nye p. 49. In what sence the Church of a particular Congregation is the first subject of the power of the Keyes in the same sence it is Independent and none other we taking the first subject and the Independent subject to be all one Answer to the 32 questions p. 46. For the matter of Independency we confesse the Church is not so Independent but it ought to depend upon â—hrist But for Dependency upon men or other Churches or other Subordination unto them in regard of Church-Government and power we know not of any such appointed by Christ and his Word The Churches were not Dependent and Subordinate to others but all of them absolutely free and Independent Burtons Vindication p. 42. We are not so ashamed of the Title of Independency as utterly to disclame it and that for two reasons first for distinction sake between us and that which you call Presbyteriall Government The second is because this word Independent is to signifie that wee hold all particular Churches of Christ to be of equall authority and none to have Iurisdiction over another but each Church is under Christs Goverments as the sole head King Lord Law-Giver thereof g Apol. Nar. p. 22. We doe professedly judge the Calvinian Reformed Churches of the first Reformation from out of Popery to stand in need of a further Reformation themselves h Ibid. p. 19. Wee think we give more to the Magistrate then the principles of the Presbyteriall Government will suffer them to yeeld i Ibid. p. 24. Wee doe here publikely professe we believe the truth to lie and consist in a middle way betwixt that which is falsely charged on us Brownisme and that which is the contention of these times the Authoritative Presbyteriall Government Preface to the Keyes p. 5. We are yet neither afraid nor ashamed to make profession that the substance of this briefe extract is that very middle way betwixt that which is called Brownisme and the Presbyteriall Government k Vide supra Chap. 2. B and R 2. l Prynnes Discovery p. 29. Iohn Lilbourn in his Answer to 9 Arguments p. 4. writes the Church of England is a true whoorish mother and you are one of her base begotten and bastardly children I say the Church of England neither is nor never was truly married to Christ in that espousall band which his true Churches are and ought to be but is one of Anti-christs Nationall whâ—orish Churches your Church is false and Anti-christian the Ministers of the Church of England are not true Ministers of Christ but false Ministers of Anti-christ ibid. p. 31. This language and opinion of his concerning our English Church and Ministry is seconded by most Independents in their late Pamphlâ—ts m Mr Robinson hath written a whole Treatise upon this subject n Answer to the 32 questions p. 27. If we were in England we should willingly joyne in some parts of Gods true worship and namely in hearing the Word where it is truly preached yea though wee doe not know them to be true Churches For some worship as prayer and preaching and hearing the Word is not peculiar to Church-Assemblies but may bee performed in other meetings Cottons letter examined p. 43. The second thing which Mr Cotton himselfe hath professed concerning English Preachers is that although the Word yet not the Seales may be received from them because saith he there is no Communion in hearing and the Word is to be preached to all but the Seales c. o Vide supra Chap. 3. G. p Cottons Letter examined p. 37. Cotton here confesseth these two things first if any reproach the Church of Salem for Separation it is a sin meet to be censured secondly the Churches themselves may be separated from who tolerate their members in such causlesse reproachings which I leave to himselfe to reconcile with his former profession against Separation q Vide supra Chap. 4. R r Vide supra Chap. 5. E 1 s Burtons Vindication p. 45. We esteeme the Government of Christs Church so holy as we cannot think them fit to be admitted be they never so good that think so slightly of the way and of them that walk in it that they refuse to agree to walk in this way with the people of God Ibid. p. 62. Doe you not know that no Infants have any title to Baptisme but by vertue of their Parents faith outwardly professed and what outward profession of faith in the Parents that refuse Christ for their only King If therefore the Parents refuse thus to be in visible Covenant can the children be said to be in visible Covenant and so to have a right to baptisme If then the Parents by refusing Christ as their King doe hereby cut
Ghost the sonnes and daughters of the Father must be understood as many such priviledges of the universall and invisible Church or when any of them are to be applyed to a particular visible Church they must be understood of that Church not according to every one but only the living and gracious members thereof That such priviledges of the Catholicke invisible Church when they are applyed to a particular visible Congregation are to be understood according to this distinction of members Robinson him selfe while yet in his rigid separation grants it expresly The places thus expounded prove not the point for grant to every Congregation so high priviledges as you will yet if they must be verified of that Congregation only according to some members and not according to all if they be to be understood only of the Elect in that Congregation who have the sanctifying Spirit of Christ not of many others who are dead in nature and yet are such members who have right from God according to our Brethrens own Tenet to perform Church acts such as are the preaching of the Gospel the celebration of the Sacraments the admission of members the execution of censures with such authority from Christ as makes all these acts truly valid for the comfort and salvation of the Elect they prove not the true grace of every person whom we must acknowledge to be a true member of a Church If you will extend these places to every singular member of particular visible Churches as indeed the Argument if it have any strength doth import the absurdity will be great for so it will carry to the Pelagianisme of Arminius in the extent of the true grace of God beyond the Elect to all the members of a visible Church also to the totall and finall Apostacy of many who are the Temples of the holy Ghost the members of Christ the faithfull and sanctified children of God For the Argument maketh every member of any visible Church to be such daily experience proves that many members of every visible Church are castawayes Yea the Argument drives further then any of the Arminians will follow for however they extend the true and saving grace of God beyond the Elect members of a Church yet none of them ever said that this sanctifying and saving grace must be in every person before they can bee admitted members of any Church For this is that grosse errour which the Independents have learned not so much from Arminius as Socinus to put all men unconverted without the Church that in this condition they may be converted by the preaching of private men and if by Pastors yet by their Preaching not as Pastors but as private men dealing with these who are none of their Flock but without the Church Neither doe the Socinians so farre as I know extend their Tenet thus farre as to require all before they be members of the Church to be truly regenerate as if the only instrument of regeneration and conversion were the preaching of private men without the Church and the preaching of Pastors within the Church did serve only for the continuing of the sence of justification and the encrease of sanctification as being performed of purpose only unto these persons who at their first entrance into the Church while yet they were without and but comming in have demonstrate the certainty of their enjoying these graces The second Argument God receives none to be members of the visible Church but those who shall be saved but the Stewards of Gods house may receive none but whom God doth receive Ergo the Stewards of Gods house may receive none to bee members of a visible Church but those who shall be saved Answer The Conclusion is subject to the most of the faults observed upon the conclusion of the former Argument which I doe not repeat only consider that this conclusion beareth expresly that none may be members of a visible Church but these who shall be saved and so who are truly Elect. We would not be deceived with their distinctions of inward and outward holinesse of seeming and reall grace of charitable and veritable discerning for this and the other Argument inferres flatly that no other must be received as members in a visible Church but such as first are tryed and found to bee really holy and who shall be saved We Answer therefore to the Minor That it is evidently false for the Reasons which we brought upon the Minor of the former Argument The place of the Acts brought for the proofe of it is detorted such as were to be saved were added to the Church is this indefinite proposition to be understood universally that all who were to be saved were added to the Church the former Argument maketh this no necessary truth for if men must be justified sanctified and put in the way of salvation before they be added to the Church then though they were never added to the Church they may well bee saved They would doe well here to remember their own ordinary practice contrary to that which here they professe to be the way of God Why doe they not adde to their Church all that are to be saved why exclude they many whom they grant to be truly gracious and Elect upon this ground alone that they cannot approve of their Independency or Covenant Or suppose the proposition to be universall yet must it be reciprocall and convertible Be it so that all who were to be saved were added to the Church yet must all who are added to the Church be saved This is an evident untruth Will they that all the members of their Church must be saved or doe they think that all the persons of their Churches who shall not be saved were never true members of their visible Church Iudas was made a member of the Apostolick society by Christ and many men were brought into the visible Church by the Prophets and Apostles who shall not be saved Shall damnation and want of true grace cast them all out of the true Church and take from them their power and right to do the actions of a Church-member The third Argument If it be put in any forme will readily fall under the exceptions of the first but since the Author puts no forme upon it I shall only consider its matter It consists of the misapplication of three Scriptures first of Peters Confession Matâ—h 8. they alledge that such a profession of Faith as the Father reveales to particular persons is the ground of a visible Church and so who ever is a member of that Church must both professe Faith and have the Spirit to indite that profession Answer This is a strange Argument For first we may not admit that the Church founded upon the Rock is every particular visible Church The priviledges of the Catholike and visible Church which the Iesuites by all their wrestlings have never been able to extort from us for their Idoll
Body But every single Congregation is the Kingdome of God c. Answ Passing by the Minor The Major is false and Anabaptisticke for by the same reason the Anabaptists exempt from all authority both Ecclesiasticke and Civill not onely every Congregation but every single person who are the members of Christ and his Spouse and in whom the Kingdome of God doth dwell The high and excellent stiles of honour which the Scripture gives not onely to whole Churches but to every particular Saint exempts neither the one nor the other because of their immediate subjection to God and Christ from the bonds and yoake of any authority either Ecclesiasticke or Civill which the Lord hath appointed in holy Scripture Christs internall government of soules by his Spirit albeit never so immediate taketh not away the externall administration of men either in the Church or Common wealth Who please to see much more upon this Question let them consult with Mr. Rutherfoord his Peaceable Plea with Appolonius and Spanheim with the Author of Vindiciae Clavium especially with the Divines of the Assembly their Answers to the Reasons of the dissenting brethren of purpose I have abstained from making use of any of these Writings at this time waiting for the Independents last Reply for their Reasons and the Modell of their positive Doctrin which they have made the world to waite for too too long a time CHAP. XI The thousand yeares of Christ his visible Raigne upon earth is against Scripture AMong all the Sparckles of new light wherewith our Brethren doe intertaine their owne and the peoples fancie there is none more pleasant then that of the thousand yeares a conceit of the most Ancient and grosse Hereticke Cerinthus a little purged by Papias and by him transmitted to some of the Greeke and Latine Fathers but quickly declared both by the Greek and Latine Church to be a great error if not an heresie Since the dayes of Augustine unto our time it went under no other notion and was imbraced by no Christian we heare of till some of the Anabaptists did draw it out of its grave for a long time after its resurrection it was by all Protestants contemned onely Alstedius after his long abode in Transilvania began in his last times to fall into likeing with some parts thereof pretending some passages of Piscator for his incouragement Alstedius Heterodox Writings were not long abroad when Mr. Meade at Cambridge was gained to follow him yet both these Divines were farre from dreaming of any personall raigne of Christ upon earth onely Mr. Archer and his Colleague T. G. at Arnheim were bold to set up the whole Fabricke of Chiliasme which Mr. Burrowes in his London Lectures upon Hosea doth presse as a necessary and most comfortabe ground of Christian Religion to be infused into the hearts of all children by the care of every parent at the Catechising of their family Our Brethrens mind in this point as I conceive they have Printed is this That in the yeare 1650. or at furthest 1695. Christ in his humane nature and present glory is to come from heaven unto Jerusalem where he was crucified at that time the heaven and earth and all the workes therein are to be burnt and purged by that fire of conflagration mentioned by Peter 2 Epist Chap. 3. At the same time all the Martys and many of the Saints both of the Old and New Testament are to rise in their bodies The Jewes from all the places where now they are scattered shall returne to Canaan and build Jerusalem in that City Christ is to raigne for a full thousand yeares from thence he is to goe out in person to subdue with great bloodshed by his owne hand all the disobedient Nations when all are conquered except some few lurking in corners then the Church of Jewes and Gentiles shall live without any disturbance from any enemy either without or within all Christians then shall live without sinne without the Word and Sacraments or any Ordinance they shall passe these thousand yeares in great worldly delights begetting many children eating and drinking and injoying all the lawfull pleasures which all the creatures then redeemed from their ancient slavery can afford In this Earthly happinesse shall the Church continue till the end of the thousand yeares when the relicks of the Turkish and Heathenish Nations shall besiege the new Jerusalem and Christ with fire from heaven shall destroy them afterwards followeth the second resurrection of all the dead good and bad for the last judgement Thus farre the Independent Preach and Print further Cerinthus himselfe went not if you will except the Polygamy and sacrifices of the old Israelits What truth may be in these things let the arguments which are usually brought either pro or contra declare Against the mentioned Tenet I reason first He that remaines in the heaven unto the last Judgement comes not downe to the earth a thousand yeare before the last Judgement But Christ remaines in the heaven unto the last Judgement Ergo. The Maior is unquestionable the Minor is proved from the Article of our Creede From that place he shall come to judge the quicke and the dead importing that Christ from the time of his ascention doth abide in the heaven at the right hand of the Father and commeth not downe from that place to the earth till he descend in the last day to judge the quicke and the dead I know they are not moved with the authority of any humane Creed yet they would doe well to speake out their minde of this Article as they doe of some others Surely to say that Christ shall come from heaven in his humane nature to abide a thousand yeares on the earth and then to returne againe to the heaven that he may discend the third time from the heaven in the last day to judge the quicke and the dead is so evident a perverting of that Article that Mr. Mead their great Doctor and leader in this Tenet to eschew it falleth into a very strange and singular conceit wherein I doubt whether any of the Independents will be pleased to follow him with all other Orthodox Divines he makes but two commings of Christ from the heaven to the earth the first at the Incarnation the second at the day of Judgement but this day of Judgement he extends to a round thousand yeares and this day to him is the onely time of the Millenary raigne We neede not refute this fancie for the best arguments which are brought for it are some testimonies from the Talmudicke Rabbins and these as I conceive understood against the true sence of the Authors The streame of Scripture and Reason runne more against this conceit then any other part of Chiliasme as the most of the Chiliasts themselves will confesse However what I brought from the Apostolick Creed of Christ his aboade in the heaven till the last day I prove it from Scripture Acts. 3 21. Whom
the heavens must receive till the time of the restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all the holy Prophets since the world began This place proveth clearely the aboade of Christs body in the heaven till the time of the restitution of all things So much our Brethren grant but they deny our assumption that the time of the restitution of all things is the last day this therefore we prove not by the Testimony of all the reformed who unanimously bring this place as a maine ground against the Papists and Lutherans in the questions of Transubstantiation and Ubiquity but by three reasons from the Text it selfe First that time here is understood when all things that are spoken of by all the Prophets are performed But all things spoken of by all the Prophets are not performed till the last day Master Burrowes alleadgeance that all the Prophets are frequent and large upon the Raigne of the 1000 yeares but rare and sparing upon the doctrine of the last Judgement and life eternall might well have beene spared for the one halfe of it and left to the Socino-Remonstrants but suppose it were all true yet if any of the Prophets have spoken any thing at all of the last Judgement as the Apostle Jude puts it out of question even of Enoch it is cleare that the time of the performing of all things which any of the Prophets have spoken cannot possibly exist before the last Judgement as we may see Rom. 8. ver 21. compared ver 18.23 where the restitution of the creatures to their desired liberty comes not before the redemption of our bodyes and the glory to be revealed upon the whole Church at the last day Secondly the time here spoken of is when the Jewes to whom Peter did speake were to be refreshed by the Lords presence but this shall not be before the Generall resurrection for the Chiliasts doe maintaine that all the Jewes shall not rise neither that any of them to whom the Apostle did then speake shall be partakers of the first resurrection unlesse some of them who were Martyres for the honour and Glory of this first resurrection the most of them make it so rare and singular a priviledge that Daniel himselfe does not obtaine it but by a speciall promise Thirdly The time when God doth solemly before Men and Angels declare the absolution and blotting out of the sinnes of all his people is not before the last day But this is the time whereof the Apostle Peter speakes in the present place as appeares by the 19 verse That your sinnes may be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. Take but one other place for Christs aboade in the heaven till the last day John 14.2.3 I goe to prepare a place for you I will come againe and receive you to my selfe that where I am there you may be Behold Christ goes to the heaven and comes backe againe but once for this very end to take his Disciples with him not to abide with them upon the earth but to place them in the Mansions of his Fathers House in the Heavens which he went to prepare for them wherein all the time of his absence he himselfe was to remaine A Second argument we take from Christs sitting at the right hand of God This errour how innocent soever it seeme to some yet it perverts the true sence of sundry articles of our Creed and forceth its followers to coyne new and false senses to a great many Scriptures whereupon these articles were builded This was the reason why neither Piscator nor Alstedius nor Mead when they laide too fast hold upon some of the branches of Chiliasme yet the bulke and roote of that Tree Christs comming downe to the earth in his humane nature a thousand yeares before the last day they durst never touch but our Brethren have more venturous Spirits they see much further then their Masters they scruple nothing to make all these things popular and Catecheticke doctrine The reason I spoke of is this Christ sits at the right hand of God till the last day Ergo he comes not to reigne on earth a thousand yeares before the last day The consequence is builded upon this Proposition Christs sitting at the right hand of the Father is not in earth but in heaven which many Scriptures prove Ephes 1.20 He set him at his own right hand in heavenly places Heb. 1.3 He sat downe at the right hand of the Majesty on high Heb. 8.1 He is set on the right hand of the Throne of the Maiesty in the heavens The antecedent I prove thus He sits at the right hand of God till all his enemies be made his footstoole So speakes the Psalmist Psal 110.1 But all his enemies are not made his footstoole till the last day for till then Satan Sinne Death and all wicked men are not fully destroyed Our third argument we take from the resurrection of the dead All the Godly at Christs comming from heaven doe rise immediately to a Heavenly Glory Ergo none of them doe arise to a Temporall glory of a thousand yeares upon earth The antecedent see in Heb. 9.28 Vnto them that looke for him shall he appeare the second time without sin unto salvation Christ hath but two times of comming to the earth first in weakenes to die upon the Crosse The second time in glory to give eternall Salvation without distinction to all beleevers who looke for his comming Also 1 Thes 4.14 Them which sleepe in Jesus will he bring with him The Lord himselfe shall discend from heaven with a shout and the dead in Christ shall rise first then we which are alive shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meete the Lord in the ayre and so shall we be ever with the Lord. The ground of comfort which the Apostle propounds to the Thessalonians for all their dead as well Martyrs as others was their resurrection not before the Lords comming with the voice of the Archangell but at that time when all the dead in Christ without exception do arise and non of them abide on the earth but all are caught up in the ayre to meete the Lord and all remaine with him eternally thereafter without any separation See also 1 Cor. 15.22 In Christ shall all be made alive but every man in his owne order Christ the first fruits afterward they that are Christs at his comming then commeth the end when he shall have delivered up the Kingdome to God The Apostle here speakes of the Resurrection of all and particularly of the Martyrs such as with the Apostle dyed daily and every houre were in jepoardy and fought with Beasts although he professes to distinguish the diversity of order that might be in this great worke of the Resurrection yet he affirmes that these who are Christs do not arise till his comming and his comming he makes not to be
the Father gave to the Son at his Incarnation Luke 1.32 33. The Lord shall give unto him the throne of his Father David and he shall raigne over the House of Iacob for ever This Kingdome for the matter of it is truely everlasting being the glory which Christ and his Saints injoy for ever in the heavens albeit for the manner of the administration thereof it be rendred up by the Sonne to the Father when the worke of mediation is perfected and all enemies are fully destroyed To deny the beginning of Christs Kingdome over his Church unto the thousand yeares is many wayes absurd And because of the eternall indurance of his dominion and glory in the heavens to make the Church on earth in which he raignes to be voide of all tribulation of all changes to have a perpetuall day without any darkenesse is contrary to the Scriptures alleadged in the former arguments In the eleventh place he alledgeth Revel 19.13 And he was cloathed with a vesture dipped in blood And Ezek. 21 28. And there shall be no more a pricking brier unto the house of Israel nor any grieving them of all that are round about them Whence they inferre That in the beginning of the thousand yeares Christ with his owne hands shall kill so many of the wicked that his garments shall be dipped in blood and not one of them left to trouble the Church Answer It is a very strange conception to make the Lord Jesus embrue his holy hands in the blood of so many men That these battells are not fought with the hands of Christ in a literall way will appeare by a paralell place Isay 63.1 Who is this that commeth from Edom with died garments from Bozra Unto Christ here are ascribed garments died in blood because of the slaughter of the Edomites a little after the Babylonish captivity at which time Christ had neither a body nor a garment in propriety of speech As these battells were fought by Christ not in his owne person nor upon the earth so neither these battells of the Revel-which so much the lesse can be literally expounded as in the 14 and 15 verses of that 19 Chapter the instrument whereby Christ is said to fight these battells is not any Sword in his hand but the two-edged Sword of his mouth and the Souldiers whom he leads out to these battells are not armed with Sword and Speare but ride upon white Horses cloathed in fine linnen white and cleane As for that of Ezechiel if you consult either with the originall or the best Interpreters it must be expounded first and principally if not solely of the Towne of Sidon which the Lord was to destroy that it might no more be a thorne in the side of Israel From this to inferre the purging of the Christian Church of all other enemies in this life and that by killing of them all as cursed Canaanites were a dangerous conclusion farre from the justice and innocence of Christians in all by-gone times the beleefe whereof would quickly renew unto us the horrible tragedies of the Anabaptists In the twelfth place he cites Rev. 21.23 24. And the City had no need of the Sun neither of the Moone to shine in it and the Kings of the earth doe bring their glory and honour unto it also chap. 22. ver 1 2 3. and he shewed me a pure river of the water of life c. Ans The Divines who apply these two chapters to the condition of the Church upon earth after the calling of the Jewes take the most of the passages in a figurative and allegoricall sence To expound them literally and properly of any Church on earth the Text will not permit Shall ever the Church on earth be so free of sorrow and death as not to sorrow for sinne or to have none of its members mortall Shall they so immediately see the face of God as the use of Temples Tabernacles or any ordinance shall be needelesse shall ever man upon earth be without the Sunne and the Moone These things are true in a proper sence onely of the Saints of heaven What is here alleadged to the contrary That the Kings of the earth bring not their riches and honours to the Heavens we say it is but a part of the Allegorie to expresse under that similitude the glory wealth of the life to come as in the same place the Spirit of God expresses the happinesse of heaven by the Metaphors of gold and pretious stones of rivers and fountaines of trees and fruits To expound all these in a literall sence of any Church either in earth or heaven were incommodious except our Brethren would put us upon more fancies then any of them yet have spoke of In the last place they cite for the gifts of the Saints Zach. 12.8 He that is feeble among them in that day shall be like David and the house of David shall be as God and for the honour of the Saints that in the thousand yeares they shall be taken into private familiarity by Princes and great men Rev. 11.12 And they heard a great voyce from heaven saying unto them come up hither and they ascended up to heaven in a cloud and their enemies beheld them Ans The gifts meant by Zachary are such as are powred upon all the Saints of the New Testament with the spirit of grace and supplication which makes the least of the Kingdome of Heaven to be like unto David to Elijah and greater then John the Baptist as Christ speakes But what is this unto the imaginary glory of the Chiliasticke Kingdome The honour they speake of cannot be fetched out of that eleventh of the Revel For who but themselves will expound heaven in that place of the Thrones of Kings of the Privie Chambers of Princes and great men The calling up of the two witnesses to heaven by none else but them will be taken for the Saints familiarity with great States-men And according to their own Tenets in the Chiliasticke Kingdome there is no such degrees of honour as in this world For there Christ in his owne Person is King and all the Saints doe shine at least as the firmament and the glory of these Saints is greatest whose grace is most eminent Familiarity with Princes and worldly States-men is then for no purpose Beside the ascention of the two witnesses to the heavens is before the fall of the tenth part of Rome and so before the thousand yeares beginne There be yet some more places cited by Master Burrowes and others for their Tenet but these which we have answered are the principall and if they be cleared there is no difficulty in the rest Besides Scriptures Master Burrowes takes from the Glimpse of T. G. sundry testimonies of antiquity all which T. G. does borrow from Alstedius To the which I answer That no Protestants build their fayth upon humane testimonies and no men in the world make so small account of