of Colene in a moste apt similitude called the scripture a nose of waxe and Pighius the leaden rule of the Lesbian building But now concerning the matter it selfe You would shift it of by saying The Iesuites doe compare the hereticall wresting and detorting of scripture vnso the bowing of a nose of waxe vpon certaine circumstances which are these First not in respect of the scripture it selfe but in respect of heretikes and other that abuse it and that before the rude people that cannot iudge thirdlie to the ende to flatter Princes or the people in their vices Thus much was said before in the Censure But it was replied that Andradius confesseth the fathers of Colene doe saie that the holie scripture is as a nose of wax So doth Pighius and it is a thing more commonlie knowen then that it can be denied Therefore the wresting of the scripture is not compared by them to the bowing of a waxen nose but the scripture it selfe to a nose of wax as that which is as easie to be drawne into any sense as a nose of wax may be turned euerie waie The wordes of Pighius are plaine Sunt enim scripturae velut caereus quidam nasus qui sicut hor sum illor sumque facilè se trahi permittit quo traxeris haud inuitus sequitur ita illae se flecti duci atque etiam in diuer sam sententiam trahi accomodarique ad quid-uis patiuntur nist quis veram illam inflexibilemque earundem amussim nempe Ecclesiasticae traditionis authoritatem communemque sententiam ilsdem adhibeat For the holie scriptures are as it were a certaine nose of wax which as it easelie suffereth it selfe to be drawne this waie and that waie and whether soeuer you draw it is followeth not vnwillinglie so also they doe suffer them selues to be bowed to be led and also to be drawen into a contrarie meaning and to be applied vnto what you will except a man lay vnto them that true inflexible rule of them namelie the authoritie and common vnderstanding of the Churches tradition These wordes declare if the sense of all Papists be the same that the Iesuites do not onelie compare the scripture it selfe but also that they make this comparison in respect of the scripture it selfe which suffereth it selfe as easelie to be wrested and abused as a nose of wax abideth to be bowed nor before the rude and ignorant onelie nor to flatter Princes and people in their vices alone but before any persons or to any purpose whatsoeuer and that there is not in them a certaine and infallible sense to iudge of the Churches doctrine or to finde out the true Church from all false congregations by the trueth taught in the scriptures but that the authoritie and common vnderstanding of the Popish Churches tradition is the onelie true sense inflexible rule of the holy scriptures wherebie also it is manifest though you denie it neuer so stoutlie that you doe impute the wresting of the scriptures vnto the imperfection of Gods worde set forth in them and not onelie to the malice of the wrester For if the will of God be but as well expressed in them as the will of princes is in their written lawes and proclamations the one maie as well be found out by reading and weighing of the holie scriptures as the other may be out of prophane writings especially where the spirit of God graunted vnto the praiers of the elect openeth their vnderstanding not onelie to conceiue as the naturall man maie by studie and ordinarie helpes the true scope and purpose of God vttered in them but also to beleeue and embrace whatsoeuer the Lord their God hath propounded in them Therefore though the scripture may be wrested to the destruction of the vngodlie as Saint Peter sheweth yet Master Charke telleth you that it cannot so be wrested but that still it remaineth the light vnto our feet and the lanterne vnto our steppes and euerie parte thereof is like the arme of a great Oke which cannot be so wreste but that with great force it will returne into the right position to the shame and perill of the wrester which answere of his you doe so dissemble as though you had neuer seene it And you doe wiselie seeing otherwise then by silence you could not auoid it But howsoeuer Master Charke storme you will defend your blasphemie of the nose of waxe not onelie in a kingdome where the Ghospell is preached but also in the kingdome of vs ministers where the letter of the scripture is worsse wrested by vs to all errors and licentiousnes then euerie waxen nose was yet bended to diuerse fashions O ye senseles papists had you neuer a man of moderat iudgement to set forth against vs but this loosetongued Gentelman which so he maie raile with full mouth against vs hath no care how his slaunders maie be coloured Doe we peruert the scriptures to all errors then surelie we holde no trueth there neuer was anie heresie neither can there be anie heresie but that with manie errors it maintaineth and holdeth manie truethes Yea the Deuill him-selfe the father oflies beleeueth some truethes and for shame dare not professe the maintenance of all errors We thinke verie hardlie of Antichrist and his brood the papists yet we maie not saie that they wrest the scriptures to all errors and licentiousnes for if they so did they should not deceaue so manie by shew of trueth in errors except they did professe some articles of trueth in deede As for the wresting of the Scripture to all licentiousnes let God and all the world of reasonable and indifferent men iudge how iustlie we maie be charged therewith If we be licentious in our liues God will finde it out and let man where he findeth it punish vs. But if we wilfully peruert the scriptures to the maintenance of all licentiousnes the Lord reward vs according to our deedes and be not mercifull to them that sinne of malicious wickednes But it is no fault in the scriptures saie you that they may be abused For Christ him-selfe was called the rocke of offence and the stone of scandall not for anie faulte or imperfection in him but through the wickednes of such as abuse that benefit So if the Iesuites had said no more but that the scripture maie be abused no man could haue found fault with them And Christ is called a stone of offence or stumbling not altogether in respect of the wicked that abuse him for he is called a stone moste precious and necessarie to build vpon of stumbling to those that refuse to build vpon him which meeting with him must either stumble and fall or els if it fall vpon them they must be ground to pouder But the the scripture is compared to a nose os wax because it is in their imagination that vse the comparison as pliant to follow euerie waie and to yeald as probable a sence one waie as an other as
a nose of wax is easie to be turned and shaped on euerie side or sort which if it were so must needes be a great fault in the scripture it selfe A hundred positiue lawes and statutes in England are so well penned as all the sophistical heads in christendome cannot finde a starting hole in them by anie peruerse interpretations but thatall they which haue but a meane skill in the lawes will laugh them to scorne And tha I we think so vnreuerently of the holy scriptures giuen by inspiration of god that euerie foolish heretike maie turne them about like a nose of wax but rather that in his said attempt of turning his folly shal be made manifest to al men Pighius saith expressely the scriptures are dumbe iudges as though Godspake not in them and by them vnto vs whose prophane comparison of the holie scriptures with prophane lawes which require Magistrates and iudges to punish the offenders of them euerie Christian man may perceiue to tende to the derogation of the maiesty of them As also euerie childe that hath studied logike but halfe a yeare maie vnderstand his beggerlie petition of the principle when appealing from the iudgement of the scriptures he will be iudged by none but by papists in controuersies and questions that we haue against the papists As for the blacke Gospell and Inkie diuinitie babled by Eccius against the written Gospell If Iesuits can maintaine as Catholike surelie Christians can not heare it without horror of blasphemie If there be no fault or imperfection in the scriptures how saith Pighius that euery man may euidently know without the scriptures in what order the Church is appointed by her author Againe of what moment is the holy scripture if it be not necessarie to decide all doubtes and controuersies in the Church for thus saith Pighius If we receaue the authoritie of the Churches tradition quam si recipimus omnis facilè etiam sine scriptur is inter nos componetur concertatio controuersia cùm de singulis nonfuerit admodum operosum inuenire quid Catholica ab initio Ecclesia senserit Which if we receiue all strife and controuersie betweene vs may easilie be compounded euen without the scriptures Seeing it is no very hard worke to finde out what the Ca tholike Church from the beginning hath thought of euerie question Thus the Ecclesiasticall tradition is set a loft and the holie scriptures excluded as superfluous and vnnecessarie seeing all questions may easilie be decided without them But to giue a better colour to your nose of waxe you saie Saint Ierome doth call the scriptures alledged corruptlie by Marcion and Basilides the diuells Gospell because the Gospell consisteth not in the words of scripture but in the sense But so doth not Christ call the scripture when it was alledged by the deuill neither doth Saint Ierome so call the scripture but the false sense feined by heretikes His wordes are these Grande periculum est in Ecclesia loqui ne fortè interpretatione peruersa de Euangelio Christi hominis fiat Euangelium aut quod peius est Diaboli It is great perill to speake in the Church least perhappes by peruerse interpretation of the Gospell of Christ be made the Gospell of man or that which is worse of the deuill And it is true which he saith The Gospell is not in the wordes but in the sense of the scriptures Yet it is also true that the sense of the scriptures is expressed in those wordes of the scriptures and not included in the Popes breast as the Papists would haue vs thinke that al labour bestowed in seeking the sense of the scriptures is in vaine except we take the interpretation of the Popish Church which sthe iudgement of the Pope as the sure rule to guide vs by But Saint Augustine you saie calleth the scripture the bowe of heretikes Which is not so for he compareth their wresting of the scriptures to the bending of a bowe Ecce inquiunt peccatores tetenderunt arcum credo scriptur as quas illi carnaliter interpretando venenatas inde sententias emittunt Beholde say they the sinners haue bent the bowe the scriptures I beleeue which while they interpret carnallie they send forth poysoned meaninges from them Further you saie Irenaeus compareth it abused by heretikes to a Iewel stamped with the forme of a Dogge or Fox Irenaeus speaketh not of the bodie of the scriptures but of wordes sentences and parables of scripture rent not onelie from their sense but also from their place and patched together with olde wiues fables to make a shew for heresie which is all one as he saith as if a man should breake an excellent Image of a king and when he hath fashioned the peeces beeing pearles or precious stones into the shape of a Fox or Dogge he would yet be so impudent to saie this is that excellent Image of the king which was made by a not able workman This soundeth nothing like the nose of waxe Likewise you saie Gregorie Nazianzen compareth the scripture to a siluer scabberd with a leaden sworde in it The comparison you speake of is in his poemes which I verelie am perswaded that you neuer read but were mocked by your notebooke as many times before For Gregorie compareth not the scriptures as you slaunder him but an hipocrite a man that hath nothing but an externall shew of religion to a leaden sworde in a siluer scabberde his verses are these if you could haue construed them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To these that you might seeme bountifull though you be a verie begger of your owne reading you adde Tertullian and Vincentius Lirinensis of which the former you saie compareth the scripture to the deceitfull ornaments of harlottes the other to poysoned hearbs couered in the Apothecaries shops with faire titles Wherein you slaun der them both for they compare not the wholl scripture as you doe in your nose of waxe but the hereticall bragges of scripture which as they may abuse a peece for a shew so are they confounded by the wholl when the same is rightlie weighed Therefore the comparisons of these auncient Doctors are no more like to your nose of waxe then your nose of waxe is like to the holie scriptures Neither doth the example of Luther calling the scriptures the booke of heretikes expounding him selfe why he so calleth it namely because it is depraued by heretikes defend the Iesuites which to the deprauation of the scriptures vse that similitude as Luther did not in his albeit he might as well haue forborne that title as his rash iudgement against those whome you call sacramentaries for as the one was vnprofitable so the other was vniust But if the Iesuites saie you had reiected any one booke of the scripture as the Protestantes doe many we might iustlie accuse them It is as great a fault to adde to the worde of God as to take from it The Protestantes reiect no booke
fastidia detergeret Nihil enim fere de illis obscuritatibus eruitur quod non planissimè dictum alibi reperiatur The holie ghost hath magnifically and wholsomlie so tempered the holy scriptures that with euident places he might satisfie hunger and with more darke places might wipe awaie disdainfulnes For nothing almoste is found out of those obscurities which is not found els where most plainlie vttered It were no hard matter to heape vp manie testimonies of the auncient fathers to this purpose but that the va nitie of this answerer appeereth sufficientlie in all our bookes written against the papists in which not onely by the manifest places of the scriptures but also by most euident testimonies of the doctors of the church we confute them in the most and greatest matters of controuersie that ate betweene vs. But what saith our gallant answerer that the councels fathers and anciters of theChurch haue from time to timedeclared the true sense of the scriptures vnto vs hath none of these at any time erred in expounding the scriptures may we safely beleeue them whatsoeuer they say He wil I warrant you deny it except the Pope of Rome do alow their interpretations And therfore this flying from the only scriptures to the interpretation of Coun cels fathers ancetors of the Church is nothing els but an impudent shift to reserue vnto the Pope liberty authority to make what meaning of scripture they please thereby to giue colour to euery fansie they list to father it vpon the authority of the holie scriptures The third cause he affirmeth to be that by chalenging of onely scripture they maie deliuer themselues from all ordinan ces or doctrines left vnto vs by the first pillers of Christs Church though not expressely set down in the scripture c. In deede to deliuer our selues from the burthen of mens traditions the ordinances or doctrines of men we affirme the holie scriptures to be hable and sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation by faith in Iesus Christ as the Apostles and principall pillers of the Church haue taught vs who haue left no such ordinances or doctrines but they be either expressely set down in the holy scriptures or by plaine and necessarie collection to be gathered out of the same For how will our aduersaries prooue that anie thing is receaued from the Apostles which hath not testimonie out of the writings of the Apostles who can be a sufficient witnes of such de liuerie seeing manie things were of olde referred to the Apostles tradition which euen our aduersaries do not admit to be Apostolical seeing the most auncient and immediate successors of the Apostles as Polyearpus Anicetus can not agree about a ceremony receaued from the Apostles namelie the celebration of Easter what certentie can there be of anie other ordinances or doctines fathered vpon the Apostles without witnes of their writings yea and some times directlie contrarie and repugnant to their writings But hereof saith our aduersarie they assume authoritie of allowing or not allowing whatsoeuer liketh or serueth their turnes for the time and hereof he bringeth example First of the number of sacraments whereof some protestants haue written diuerslie because the name of sacrament is diuerslie taken sometimes largelie for euerie holie signe sometimes strictlie for such holie signes onely as being instituted of God are seales of the dispensation of his generall grace in the new teftament perteining to euerie member of the Church somtimes for al holy mysteries or secrets c. But what doth it serue anie protestants turne whether there be more or fewer signes in number that maie be called sacraments seeing all protestants agree about the things themselues that are set forth in the scriptures to be visible signes of grace inuisible and the name it selfe Sacrament in that sense we speake of when we saie there are 2. 3. 4. or 7. sacraments is not once vsed This diuersitie therefore is but of a terme and that not vsed in scripture therefore it ariseth not of anie interpretation or peruerse vnderstanding of the scripture as our answerer would haue it seeme to be But let vs heare his example Martin Luther saith he after he had denied all testimonie of man besides himselfe he beginneth thus about the number of sacraments Principiò neganda mihisunt septem sacramenta tantúm tria pro tempore ponenda First of all I must denie seauen sacraments and appoint three for the time Marie this time lasted not long for in the same place he saith that if he would speake according to the vse of onely scripture he hath but one sacrament for vs that is baptisme In this sentence how manie lies and slaunders be packed together First he saith Martin Luther denieth all testimonie of man which is false for he alloweth all testimonie of man that agreeth with the testimonie of God expressed in the scriptures and often citeth the testimonies of the auncient fathers for confirmation of the trueth which he taught indeede he alloweth man no authoritie to institute sacraments or to make articles of faith or lawes to binde the conscience of man and he would haue all mans testimonies to be examined and iudged according to the word of God but this is not to denie all testimonie of man but to distinguish true testimonies of man from false An other slaunder is where he saith that Luther in denying all mans testimonie excepteth him selfe which is altogether vntrue For he requireth none other credit to be giuen to his owne testimonie then he alloweth to the testimonie of other Neither doth he arrogate any authoritie to him selfe which he derogateth from other men And namelie in this booke of the captiuitie of Babilon he taketh not vpon him absolutelie to teach euerie point but so farr forth as he did for the present vnderstand of them promising after greater study more diligent inquirie to intreat of diuers of them more certenly euen in this verie place of the number of the sacraments he saith he will admit three onclie for the present time intending to be further a duised whether there be fewer or more to be entituled with that name Wherein our answerer offereth him the third iniurie in translating tria pro tempore ponenda I must appoint three for the time as though Luther had taken vpon him to appoint how manie sacraments the Church should haue or would challenge power to appoint more or Jesse at his pleasure where as his wordes if the answerer did not wilfullie corrupt them by false translation do import no such thing but onelie as farr as he did presentlie see there were no more but three of those that were commonlie called sacraments of the new testament which were rightlie to be called by that name The fourth slaunder is that Luther hath but one sacrament for vs which is Baptisme if he would speake according to the vse of onelie scripture yea this is a double slaunder for neither doth
which is but a short section or Chap er doth not charge Luther with this opinion of heretikes not to be burned but the Donatists whose fansie is renewed againe in the Anabaptists and Libertines As for Luther Contra Latomum deincendiariis handleth not this controuersie at all but onelie expostulateth with the deuines of Louane which burned his bookes without examination or Conuiction of them out of the word of God Manie men haue complained and that moste iustlie of the crueltie of the Papists in burning as heretikes the true saints martyrs and members of the Church whose faith and religion they were neuer hable to conuince of heresie by the authoritie of gods word But that no blasphemer or obstinate heretike maintaining blasphemie against the expresse and manifest trueth of God is to be punished by death I am persuaded he can bring no booke or author of any accompt that so holdeth Fourthlie he addeth that Luther by onelie scripture found the sacramentaries to be heretikes D. Fulk by the same scripture findeth that both parties are good Catholikes But as Luther erred in his opinion of the sacrament so he was ouer rash in condemning those whome he calleth sacramentaries neuerthelesse seing he erred of ignorance and inconsiderate zeale he hath found mercie with God and is not to be adiudged as a blasphemous heretike For neither the error he maintained is blasphemie in it selfe neither did he hold it contrarie to his knowledge but as he was ignorantlie persuaded with zeale of trueth though deceiued with error How Doctor Fulke prooueth this not onelie by scripture but also by example of auncient fathers erring in like cases and yet not to be condemned for heretikes you maie reade in the place by this answerer quoted and in his confutation of Popish quarrels His last example is of manie things which Master Whitgift doth defend against Thomas Cartwright to be lawfull by scripture as Bishops Dcanes Archdeacons officialls holy daies and an hundreth more which in Geneua are holden to be flat conirarie to the scripture There are manie things lawfull by scripture which yet are not necessarie to be vsed The forme of external gouernment and discipline of the Church is not so expreslie set downe in holie scriptures but that euetie particulare Church hath libertie and must of necessitie appoint manie things for order decencie and gouernment which are not in expresse termes conteined in the scriptures euen as god shall giue them grace to see what is moste expedient according to the difference of times places and persons for the building vp of the Church in trueth and loue Wherefore although the Church of Geneua in the forme of outward regiment rites and discipline differing from the Church of England do not vse the same things that we do yet it followeth not that they holde them to be flat contrarie to the scripture neither is our answerer hable soundlie to prooue that he doth so boldlie asseuere To proceede he telleth vs what aduantage herctikes haue by onelie scripture they make them-selues therebie iudges of Doctors Councels histories presidentes cusiomes prescriptions yea of the bookes of scripture sense it selfe reseruing al interpretation to them-selues But this is nothing so for howsoeuerheretikes take vppon them to control al things according to their fantasie yet haue they noe aduantage by onelie scripture but therebie maie be are confounded when they come to examination tri all And as for the professors of the Gospell which acknowledge the scriprure to be sufficiente to teach all thinges needful to be knownevnto saluation although they are by god him selfe made Iudges of the spirits of al men by exacting them vnto the trial of the word of god which is the onelie certaine rule of truth yet doe they not by priuate authoritie iudge of Councells doctors fathers customs c. But by that charge which is laide vpon them to iudge cōdemne euen the Angels from heauen if they should bring anie other Gospell then that which the Apostles haue preached without al arrogancie or insolencie against the Angels Councels Doctors Fathers whatsoeuer but in giuing god the glorie to be onely true al men to be liers no Angel to be credited except they speake by the spirite of God of whose speach we haue no certaine demonstration but in the holie scriptures whatsoeuer is agreeable vnto them The discerning of the bookes of scripture of the true sense of them is also committed vnto the Church the faithful members thereof that doutful bookes be iudged by those that without doubt are indited by the holy ghost deliuered to the Church by faithfull witnesses instruments of the holy ghost to be of soueraigne and perpetual authority in the Church and so are knowne and taken of the true Church from time to time in such sorte that although the same truth maie be found in other bookes yet as Saint Augustine saith they are not of the same authoritie because there is not such certentie of trueth As for the sense and interpretation of the holie scriptures it must be taken out of the scriptures them-selues which are alwaies the best and surest interpretation of them-selues in all points necessarie to be knowne with the aide of the gift of tongues the gift of knowledge the gift of interpretation in them that haue labored in finding out the sense thereof according to the analogie of faith which is comprehended in the scriptures and that in places so plaine and euident as they neede no interpretation and therefore cannot be wrested by damnable heretikes without great impudencie and against their owne conscience for which cause Saint Paul willeth an heretike after the first second admonition to be auoided as one who though he will not acknowledge the truth yet he is condemned in his owne conscience and sinneth vnto eternall damnation Wherefore Councells Fathers Doctors customs examples are by vs admitted but not hand ouer head without distinction but such so farre forth as they be true and faithful interpreters of the scripture by matters and places plaine certenly knowne opening matters places obscure and vnknowne Which is the office of an expounder not to determine by his owne authority of anothers meaning whereof as among men euetie man is the best in terpreter of his owne so is the holy ghost of him-selfe in the scriptures by him inspired of whose meaning where they be hard to be vnderstood no man can be certaine but either by his own plaine wordes or by plaine necessary conclusion out of his plaine words Now touching the Papists whome our answerer saith to be restrained from chopping and changing affirming and denying at their pleasures because they binde them-selues to other things beside the scriptures to which they giue souereigne authoritie as to councells auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primatiue Church with the like the matter is farre otherwise For whatsoeuer they prate of the soueraigntie of
the scriptures of the authoritie of councels auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primitiue Church they binde them selues to nothing but to the present Popes authoritie and determi nation in thinges which he may choppe and chaunge at his pleasure against which they admitte neither scripture Councell Fathers nor Church For example brieflie The scripture moste plainlie forbiddeh the worshipping of Images will they giue soueraigne authoritie to the scriptures All the primitiue Church for six hundred yeares after Christ condemned the worshipping of Images euen Pope Gregorie that allowed the vse of them shall the authoritie of the primatiue Church or of Pope Gregorie in this point ouerrule them No I warrant you they will set them al to schoole and learne them a new lesson Theodoretus Bishop of Cyrus and Gelasius Bishop of Rome doe in plaine wordes affirme that the substance of bread and wine doth remaine in the Lordes supper after consecration doth either the antiquitie of these fathers or the determination of the Bishop of Rome which otherwise they affirme neuer to erre in doctrine preuaile with them against their new here sie of transsubstantiation The councells of Constantiople the first and of Chalcedon decreed that the Bishop of Constantinople should haue equall authoritie and dignitie with the Bishop of Rome The councells of Constans and Basill determined that the Councell is aboue the Pope The councels of Constantinople the sixt and Nice the second condemned the Pope for an heretike will the Papists of these daies trow you stand to the determination of these Councells you maie be assured they will not But the traditions of the Apostles they holde fast and binde them-selues vnto yea verilie as long and as much as they list What beareth a greater shew of the Apostles traditions then the Canons of the Apostles which excommunicate a Bishop priest or deacon that putteth away his wiffe vnder pretence of religion which excommunicate anie of the cleargie that is present at the communion doth not communicate except he shewe a cause whie he doth not Which admmitted him that is maimed in his eie or other partes of his bodie being otherwise worthie vnto the office of a Bishop because the maime of the bodie doth not pollute a man but the filthines of the soules These such like traditions of the Apostles how are they regarded of our Traditioners euen as much as they list and that is neuer a whit at this time and yet these men binde them selues to Councells Fathers traditions primitiue Church you see how farre Yea you see that while they raile vpon vs for appealing to onelie scriptures they themselues relie vpon the present Popes authoritie onelie Let all indifferent men therefore iudge whether it be more safe for a Christian man to bind him-selfe to the authoritie of scriptures onelie or to the Popes authoritie onelie and whether claime a priuiledge of ease they that will admitte no testimonie irrefragable but onelie the scripture or they which chattering of many other things in the end conclude vpon the Church onelie which when it commeth to triall is nothing els but the Pope onelie for if all the Church saie it and the Pope denie it it is nothing worth with them and if the Pope affirme it thoughe all the Church denie it it must stand for paiment But seeing the sense and interpretation of scripture is the cheefe matter we haue to speake of let vs consider whether Master Charke be iustlie charged by our answerer to haue abused that scripture by interpretation which is the chiefe ground of his preface and which he saith is a full and plaine rule whereby to discerne and trie the spirites namelie the text of Saint Iohn 1. Iohn 4. Euerie spirite which confesseth Iesus Christ being come in the flesh is of God and euerie spirite which confesseth not Iesus Christ being come in the flesh is not of God and this is that spirit of Antichrist c. This text Master Charke doth so expound as that it conteineth a confession not onelie of the person of Christ but also of his office for which office sake that wonderfull person of God and man Iesus Christ was ordeined and sent into the world to be a Prophet alone to teach a King alone to rule a Priest alone to sanctifie vs and to reconcile vs to his father by the obedience of faith And if any spiritte shall teach that Christ is not our onelie teacher by his Gospell but that we must admitte vnwritten beleefe and traditions from we know not whome to be of like authoritie with the written worde Secondlie if any spirite make not Christ alone our King and head to rule vs by his holie spirite but teach that a mortal and sinfull man must sit in our consciences and for hatred or gaine which is his practise binde or loose at his pleasure lastlie if anie spirite impeach the all-sufficiencie and entire vertue of Christes sacrifice offered vp once for euer and teach that themselues must enforce it from day to day by the continuance of their daylie sacrifice of the Masse offered for the quick and the deade it appeareth manifestlie that such spirits are not of God c. This interpretation of Master Charke saith the answerer conteineth manie absurdities For first the auncient fathers did expound this place as of it selfe it is moste euident against the Iewes which denied Christ to haue taken flesh also against Ebion Cerinthus and other heretikes that denied the Godhead of Christ. Note here by the aduersaries confession that some places of scripture are of them selues moste euident whereof this is one against the Iewes other heretikes that deny the godhead of Christ. And I hope you shall see it shortly as euident against the Papists that denie his offices To this interpretation of the auncient fathers we agree that whosoeuer denieth the person of Christ or any thing proper to his person is of Antichrist But none of the auncient fathers doe affirme that this text is to be vnderstood against such enemies onelie as denie the Godhead or manhoode of Christ. For Augustine and Oecumenius do interpret it against all heretikes and schismatikes which although they confesse this matter in wordes yet denie it in deedes and Oecumenius against all wicked persons which haue not the spirite of Christ mortifying their vngodlie lustes which carie not the mortification of Christ in their bodie c. Augustine also expoundeth the place against all that breake charitie Omnes negant Iesum Christum in carne venisse qui violant charitatem All they denie Iesus Christe to haue come in the flesh which doe breake or violate charitie whie so because not onelie the person that came but the end whie he came must be considered in the interpretation of this place as Saint Augustine rightlie iudgeth or els all heretikes will after a manner in tongue and wordes confesse that Iesus Christ came in the flesh But Quaeramus saith
her not doth better Whereof we inferre that virginitie is more acceptable and meritorious before God then mariage although mariage be holie No saie our adversaries Saint Paull meaneth onelie that he doth better before men and in respect of worldlie commmodities but not before God If you aske him which of his aduersaries doe saie so he is not able to name one for in truth we neuer saide so not thinke so But that which he saith they doe infer vpon the text that virginitie is more meritorious before God the mariage we doe vtterlie denie and we saie furthet that all the Papists in the world shal neuer be able by lawfull and true arguments to infer so much vpon these wordes of the text or to iustifie this kinde of inferring virginitie is better before God ergo it is more meritorious for the antecedent which we graunt doth not prooue the conclusion which we denie Therefore when out of the circumstances of the text he prooueth that virginitie is better in respect of God as a more excellent gift of God he taketh more paines then he needeth For we confesse as much that he that ioyneth not his virgin doth better not onelie in respecte of worldlie commodities or before men but also that shee maie be holie before the Lord in bodie and spirit c. then he that ioyneth her in mariage but that he doth better in respect of merite reward in the life to come as the answerer saith it doth not follow thereof I meane for the merite As for the reward which God bestoweth of his meere mercie doth not prooue anie merite or desert of the partie rewarded For he which vseth the gift of God well by the power and strength which he hath of God shall of Gods goodnesse not misse of his reward but he cannot therebie claime reward of dutie or of merit neither doth the text alleadged by him prooue any such thing Some Eunuchs haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen therefore they haue deserued the kingdome of heauen therebie Such licentious kinde of inferring will not onelie make poperie to stand if it were lawfull but also might be able to iustifie all heresies that euer were by scripture But bring these illations or inferrings to the iudgement seate of Logicke and they will easilie appeare to be voluntarie glosles and not true expositions or necessarie collections Yet these new doctors saith our answerer doe contemne and 〈◊〉 all authoritie antiquitie wit learning sanctitie of our forefathers and of all men yea of their owne new doctors and masters when they come to be contrarie to any new deuise or later fansie of theirs Because we may not receiue euerie interpretation or opinion of euerie of the fathers he maketh this hideous outcrie against vs. And yet we are alwaies readie to shew and haue often performed the same that in the most and greatest controuersies the auncient Doctors are against them verie cleere on our side Therefore it is an impudent slaunder that we reiect or contemne all authoritie antiquitie witte c. of our forefathers as it is a ridiculous argument that he bringeth of our dissent from our late doctors and masters as he termeth them because we follow not the error of Luther about the reall presence and the vse of Images as for the number of the sacraments and bookes of the Bible we holde with Luther in his last iudgement when he was best instructed in those cases The order of seruice is free for euerie Church to vse diuerselie as maie serue best for edification The popish Churches haue diuers vses of seruice as Sarum Yorke Bangor Hereford in England they had how manie then diuers orders abroade But Caluine he saith is reiected about the head of the Church in England which is a manifest vntrueth for Caluin is euen of the same iudgement concerning the Princes authoritie in causes ouer persons Ecclesiasticall as is euident in his Institutions that we are in England onelie he misliked the terme supreme heade as offensiue though not euill as it was vnderstood of the godlie and that terme is forborne in England for the same cause and another of supreme gouernour vsed which signifyeth as much as was ment by the other when it was rightlie vnderstoode As for the gouernment of the Church in Geneua Caluine did neuer binde all other Churches to vse the same what other pointes are reiected in Beza he hath no leisure to tell vs. But that all the Churches of the Protestants as he calleth vs in Europe do agree in the chiefe and principall articles of Religion the Harmonie of their confessions latelie set forth in print doth giue ful moste sufficient testimonie Ceremonies and for me of externall gouernment were neuer in gods Church accounted necessarie to be all one in euerie particular Church And some men maie haue their priuat opinions sometime perhapes vntrue yet retaining the vnitie of faith in the chiefe grounds and foundation of Religion with them that dissent from them either iustlie or vniustlie Wherefore our answerers finall conclusion doth not followe that Protestants will haue onelie that to be taken for trueth which they last agree vpon and their wordes must be the one ie proofe thereof whereas the worlde can testifye that the holie scripture is our ground and from thence we challenge the best proofe not refusing any other lawful proofes that wil stand with the iudgement of holie scripture where it is most plaine and easie to be vnderstoode euen without anie interpretations The bookes of the scripture we receiue which the Church of God among the Iewes before Christ and the moste auncient Church of the Gentiles since Christ hath receiued and allowed the sense we take euen out of the same bookes and bring no foreine sense vnto them all writtings of men olde and new we examine according to the same praising God for such helpe as we haue by his giftes in them to vnderstand his word yet leauing to them without reproch such things as proceeded from them selues without the warrant of that worde and this haue all true Catholikes alwaies done and no heretike is able to doe albeit he woulde professe neuer so much to doe To the former slaunders our answerer will haue vs adioyne this that our aduersaries saith he notwithstanding all request sute offer or humble petition that we can make will come to no publike disputation or other indifferent and lawfull iudgement but doe persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer the same Touching anie lawful request sute or humble petition made in due manner to them that haue authoritie to graunt I neuer hard of anie onelie the seditious challenge of Campian is all the request sute offer and humble petition that he is able to prooue was euer made by them for anie such matter before the publishing of this answere of his As for them that persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer disputation which he calleth
your fault At the least it is your fault that in so straunge a report you haue not sette downe his wordes in latine if euer you sawe the preface your selfe As for the corrupt edition or often chaungeing of Luthers workes by him-selfe we haue not to do with it for whie might not Luther reforme his owne workes if ought in them were erronius or offensiue But it is a cauill that you adioyne of the confession of Auspurg whereunto the Germanes perhaps ascribe too much as Alasco writeth For though there be diuers editions thereof differing in wordes yet are they not contrarie in sense as appeareth by the harmonie of confessions latelie set forth at Gencua Now sir so much as we finde sounding toward your reporte I will sette downe that the reader maie iudge how vprightlie you do charge Luther with denying three of the foure Gospells Enarrat in epist. Petri argumentum Primùm omnium notandum c. First of all it is to be noted that all the Apostles do handle the same doctrine for which cause it is not well done that men do number but onelie foure Euangelistes and foure Gospells whereas whatsoeuer the Apostles haue left written is one Gospell For the Gospell signifieth nothing els but the preaching and publishing of the grace and mercie of God by our Lord Christ deserued and purchased to vs by his death and that thou maiest take it properlie it is not that which is conteined in bookes and is comprehended in letters but rather a vocall preaching and a liuing worde and voyce which soundeth into the wholl world and is so openly blowen out like a trumpet that it may be heard euerie where neither is it a booke which conteineth a law in which are many good doctrines as it hath beene commonlie taken heretofore for it doth not commaund vs to worke any thing where by we may become iust but it sheweth vnto vs the grace of God freelie and giuen without our meritte namelie that Christ hath beene our mediatour and hauing made satisfaction for our sinnes hath abolished them and made vs iust and saued by his workes Now whoesoeuer doth either preach or write these thinges he teacheth the true Gospell that which all the Apostles and peculiarlie Saint Paull and Saint Peter in their Epistles haue performed Therefore whatsoeuer is preached of Christ is one Gospell although one handle it after one manner an other man after another in diuerse manner of wordes do reason of it For the matter may be handled either in long or in short speach and be described either streightlie or largelie But seeing all perteineth to this end to teach Christ to be our sauiour and that we are made iust and saued by faith in him without our workes it is one word it is one Gospell as there is but one faith onelie and one baptisme in all the Church of Christ. Therefore thoureadest nothing writen by any of the Aposties which is not conteined in the monuments of the other Apostles But they which haue handled this point especiallie and with greater diligence that faith alone in Christ doth iustifie they are the best Euangelistes of all And in this respect you may more rightlie call the Epistles of Paul the Gospel then those which Matthew Marke and Luke haue written For these men describe not much beside the storie of the Acts and miracles of Christ. But the grace which is wrought vnto vs by Christ none doth sette forth more fullie or more rightlie then Saint Paul especiallie in the Epistle to the Romanes Now seeing there is much more moment in the word then in the factes and miracles of Christ and if we should want the one it were much better to lacke the Acts and history then the word and doctrine it followeth that shose bookes are to be had in highest price which handle the doctrine cheeflie and the wordes of our Lord Iesus Christ. Seeing that if there were no miracles of Christ extant and we were altogether ignorant of them the words were sufficient for vs without the which we could not so much as liue Therefore hereof it followeth that this Epistle of Saint Peter is to be accounted among the most excellent bookes of the new testament and is the true and pure Gospell as in which he doth nothing els but that which Paul and the other Euangelists do teaching sincere faith that Christ is giuen vnto vs which hauing taken away our offences doth saue vs c. This that he speaketh naming Matthew Marke and Luke say you signifieth some tooth against these three Gospells And what tooth I pray you because these three Gospells speake too much of good workes As though S. Paul in his Epistles and namelie in that to the Romanes doth not speake as much of good workes as all those three Gospells and Saint Peter though breeflie doe not speake as much in effect But in the preface in question you affirme that Luther hath these wordes The Epistles of Paul and Peter doe farre passe the Gospells of Matthew Marke and Luke which yet more prooueth Luthers euill opinion of those three Gospells I doubtnot albeit I neuer sawe the preface my selfe but Luther doth plainlie expresse in what respect the Epistles of Paul and Peter doe excell the histories of the Gospell written by Matthew Marke and Luke euen as he doth in this preface vnto his exposition of Saint Peter Because these Epistles are more occupied in setting forth the Grace of Christ and the fruit and benefit of his passion which no more prooueth his euill opinion of those three Gospells then when Christ preferreth Iohn the Baptist before al the Prophets it prooueth his euil opinion of all the Prophets or when he preferreth him that is least in the kingdome of heauen before Iohn Baptist it prooueth his euil opinion of Iohn Baptist. These brutish Papists thinke all men voide of common sense when they make such impudent conclusions As for your first charge that it is a false opinion and to be abolished that there are foure ghospels For the ghospell of S. Iohn is the onely faire true and principall ghospell when you can alledge the words of Luther in latine to iustifie your report and because we know not how to come to the sight of that preface will set downe two sentences that goe before them and as manie that followe them you shall receiue a reasonable answere But vntill you haue thus much performed I am perswaded you wil be as farre to seeke as Campian was for his reporre of Luther that he should call the Epistle of Saint Iames Stramineam strawie or like strawe And yet you take vppon you to shew the intollerable impudencie of Master Chark and his fellowes in the Tower against Master Campian for that he could not presentlie shew out of their bookes where these wordes are written by Luther especiallie of Master Whitaker whoe to the admiration and laughter of all other nations hath set forth in latine that Luther neuer
quote Gal. 5. where there is not onelie whordome glottonie drunkennes and such like but Idolattie witchcraft heresie c. which are sinnes against faith and knowledge and doubtles haue thir first motions as well as other sinnes that are principallie committed with the body as adultrie drunkennes c. and may haue their first motions both in the body in the minde but chiofly in the minde Therefore while you charge Master Chark with intollerable ignorance you bewraie intollerable want of knowledge in one that would be taken both for a philosopher and a diuine The second absurditie you saie is greater in affirming that the sensuall parte of man is not so much corrupted by originall sinne as the reasonable parte But master Charke saith the former that is that parte of our naturall soule where bie we haue life and sense onelie is not in the same sorte corrupted as the second neither doth sinne so worke in naturall life and sense as it doth in the heart by the corruptions and guiltines of the soule Now these words do declare a comparison in qualitie not in quantitie for the question if you be remembred was of a similitude which is a comparison in qualitie not in quantitie But if he hadmade comparison in quantitie I thinke there is no wise man but feeleth temptations against the knowledge of God and faith greater and more dangerous then to commit sinne in the abuse of any of the senses And seeing all that defileth man commeth first from the heart I maruell how you place concupiscence in the sensitiue part except you place the sensitiue parte in the heart Although it is not without fraud that you change Master Charkes wordes who speaketh altogether of life and sense and you onelie of the sensitiue part in which you include the inward senses as well as the outward where as Master Charke speaketh of the outward onelie as his examples of smelling seeing hearing and feeling declare The third absurditie is ioyned with flat Pelagianisme where he saith that the necessarie actions of life and sense remaine now in man as they were before his fall For which is alledged a saying of Saint Augustine de Eccles. dogm cap. 38. that if anie man shall affirme that man both in bodie and soule is not chaunged into worse he is deceiued with Pelagianisme But Master Charkes wordes are that the nenecessarie actions of life as eating drinking c. and of sense as smelling ate of them selues all free from sinne remaining as they were in man before his fall he doth not denie that they are changed into worsse but that of them selues they are not sin It is not sinne to eate but a man may easilie sin in eating it is not sinne to see but by sight a man may easily fall into sin Neither doth your author saie that the actions of life sense are sinne but he speaketh against them that thought by the fall of Adam the bodie onelie was subiect to corruption the liberue of the soule being vnhurt Now if you holde that the simple and necessarie actions of life and sense are sinne I wounder how you can deny the first motions and vnlawfull desires of sinne to be sin But you 〈◊〉 them from sin because they be not voluntarie which is serase true of the senses for a man need not to see except he will seeing he maie close his eies But against this point of voluntarie you say he obiecteth originall sinne which is answered before and shewed how it is voluntarie And I answere that the first motions are voluntarie by the same reason Secondlie he obiecteth that god saieth in Genesis euerie cogitation of mans heart is euill euermore To that you answer that it inclineth to euill by reason of concupiscence left in vs. Thus God and you agree not He saieth it is euill you saie it inclineth to euill but yet is not that inclination sinne without consent But God saieth it is onelie euill and that alwaies Thirdlie you saie he obiecteth the commaundement Thou shalt loue the Lord thy God with all thy heart c. Whereby the first motions being against the great cōmaundement must needes be sin But that you saie is false For though we be stirred by this commaundement to all perfection that we can in this life yet no more is inioyned vs thereby vnder paine of sinne and damnation but onelie that we doe not yealde consent to sin If you say that god imputeth not vnto vs that are his children all breach of this commaundement to our condemnation I would agree with you But that anie man in this life can keepe this commaundement or that no transgression thereof except it be with consent is damnable sinne I doe vtterlie denie Yet you make Saint Augustine author of your interpretation First lib. de spirit lit cap. vltimo Who both affirmeth that this commaundement is not fullfiled by anie man in this life and also that there is no perfect iustice in this life but that man hath profited moste which knoweth how farre he is from perfection of iustice Againe that there is no iustice in this life but by faith therefore walking by faith he may be saide not to sinne against the iustice of this commaundement seeing he is not to be blamed if he loue not God so perfectlie as when he shall knowe him perfectlie But all this is to be vnderstood of the new man so farre forth as he is reformed according to the Image of God And therefore he concludeth in the end that of what qualitie soeuer or of what quantity soeuer we can define iustice in this life there is no man voide of sinne and it is necessarie for euery man to praie for remission of sinnes and to presume of no iustice of his owne but of the grace of God Secondlie you quote lib. 1. de doct Christ. cap. 2. where there is nothing to the purpose Thirdlie de natura gratia cap. 69. where he saieth this commaundement is not heauie where there is that loue whereby faith worketh where this loue is not it is heauie But that the breach of this commaundement is not sinne where we yeald no consent he saieth not one word Lastlie you quote lib. 2. de pecc merit cap. 6. where this commaundement is not once mentioned Thus you thinke to carie awaie the matter with dumme quotationes when in the places quoted there is nothing to vpholde your assertion Next followeth a question whether Protestantes or papists do represse the raines of lusts which he knoweth best that searcheth the heart the raines But the doctrine of the protestantes saie you doth take awaie both raines and bridle out of our handes while they teach the first motions to be naturall and that we cannot let their effect but that they worke sinnes in vs whether we consent or not But that is false for we saie that by the grace of God we maie resist their effect which is to worke actuall sinne
Laodicea or from the Laodiceans which in sense maie be al one with the most vsuall reading that expresseth the preposition from Therefore it is true that Master Charke saith by both the editions and by the vulgar Latine text also that albeit manie make mention of an Epistle written by Saint Paull to the Laodiceans he him selfe maketh none The 12. section Of the Scriptures missalledged for the contrarie by M. Charke THe text is 2. Tim. 3. 16. 17. The wholl Scripture is inspired of God and is profitable c. The Censure had cauiled against his translation which it was nessarie for him to defend against which defence you haue nothing to replie and therefore begin with the first reason about profitable and sufficient Hetahis profitable sometimes shall import sufficient and not barelie profitable as for example when some reason is adioyned why it should be profitable nothing els applied or seruing to that effect as when the Apostle writeth that godlines is profitable to al things hauing the promises of this life and of the life to come where profitable importeth sufficient for the obtaining of all good thinges of both liues Against this you trifle First that it is but a slender argument to inferre one particular of an other But if your eies were matches your might see a particular inferred of an vniuersall Whersoeuer some reason is alledged whie a thing should be so prositable that nothing els is necessarie for the effect there profitable importeth sufficient as in that example godlines is profitable for all thinges c. But so it is in the text in question therefore in that text profitable importeth sufficient Neuertheles in your opinion M. Charke is vttrerlie deceiued in this example of godlines which by the 〈◊〉 of Saint Ambrose Saint Ierome and Saint Augustine importeth no more but that godlines hath her promises of reward in all actions whether they be about matters of this life or of the life to come So that the meaning is that pietie meriteth in all actions but is not sufficient to the obtaining of all good thinges of both liues First concerning Saint Ambrose reade him who will vpon this text and he shall finde the contrarie Pietati operam dandam commonet quia grandem habet presectum Qui enim misericordiae student senioribus 〈◊〉 reddentes parentibus in presenti vita auxilia Dei non 〈◊〉 in He admonisheth to labour in godlines because it hath greas profit For they that are mercifull 〈◊〉 their olde Parents loue they shall 〈◊〉 mant the helpe of God in this present life and in the world to come they shalhaue immortalitie with glorie Againe omnis enim 〈◊〉 discipline 〈◊〉 in misericus dia pietate est All the summe of our discipline is in 〈◊〉 and pietie Now pietie as you confesse comprehendeth charitie and the loue of God And therefore in the end Saint Ambrose after he hath shewed that bodelie exercise taken for fasting and abstinence without godlines shal haue 〈◊〉 punishment concludeth that fasting and abstinence of men that are spirituall being to the end of pietie is comprehended therein S. Ieromes wordes vpon this text are no more but these Et 〈◊〉 tempus in futurum nam ipsa vidua in presenti casta est merces eius manetinea Godlines is profitable c. both for the present time for the time to come For euen the widow her selfe is both chast in the present time her reward abideth in her What is here against the sufficiencie of pietie S. Augustine de morib Eccles. lib. 1. c. 33. hath onelie these wordes 〈◊〉 to this text speaking of the godlie life of Christians liuing vnder discipline in citties Ita pietatem sedulò exercent corporis verò exercitationem vt ait idem Apostolus ad exiguum tempus 〈◊〉 nouerunt So they exercise godlines diligentlie as for corporall exercise as the same Apostle saieth they knowe to pertaine but to a short time Where is here either the vnsufficiencie orthe merit of godlines for the promise of reward is of mercie not of merit This reason therefore of Master Charkes for the safficiencie of the Scripture standeth im mooueable seeing the Scripture is so profitable to all points of doctrine that nothing els is required to perfection The second reason you saie he frameth in these wordes That which is profitable to all the partes which maie be required to perfection cannot but be sufficient for the perfection of the wholl but that the Scripture is profitable in such manner the Apostle doth fullie declare in rehearsing all the particular partes which are necessarie and adding also after generallie that the man of God maie be perfect 〈◊〉 the Scripture is 〈◊〉 Here of your charitie you praie God to helpe Master Charke 〈◊〉 him that he is a simple one to take controuerfies in hand And then you aske what boie in Cambridge would haue reasoned thus And whie all this forsooth euery boie knoweth there is a cause sine qua non which is not onelie profitable but also necessarie to all partes whereof it is such a cause and yet it is not sufficient alone either to the partes or to the wholl as the head is 〈◊〉 for all the actions of this life as to sing weepe dispute yet is it not sufficient alone to performe these actions Therefore it followeth not that whatsoeuer is profitable to all particular partes should be sufficient to all Dij te Damasyppe 〈◊〉 verunrob consilium 〈◊〉 tonsore Or as we saie in English the vicar of fooles be your Ghosllie father Did you learne when you were a boic in Cambridge orOxford to repeate your aduersaries proposition by halfes then to confute as much there of as you list Looke backe you shall finde that his proposition is not what soeuer is profitable to all particular parts is sufficient for the wholl but whatsoeuer is profitable to all the partes which maie be required to perfection is sufficient for the perfection of the wholl or whatsoeuer is so profitable to euery part as maketh the wholl perfect is sufficient to the wholl Against these propositions if you haue anie thing to obiect perhappes we shall haue it in your next replie for hetherto you haue said nothing and his argument standeth still His third reason is taken of the wordes of S. Paull immediatlie before where he saieth vnto Timothie That the holie Scriptures which he had learned from his infancie were able to make him wise vnto saluation So the argument is this that which is able to make a man wise vnto saluation is sufficient the holy scriptures are of ability to make a man wise vnto saluation ergo they are sufficient But this you denie What I praie you for I hope the 〈◊〉 be rightlie framed In effect the minor which is the very wordes of Saint Paull For as though either you knew not or cared not for the originall text which saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
necessarie to saluation not expressed in so manie wordes and syllables yet in full sense contained and to be plainlie concluded out of the holie scriptures and these we receiue to be of as great credit as anie thing that is expresselie contained in the scriptures The other kinde of traditions was rites and cerimonies which are not necessary to saluation but are in the Churches power to alter as it maie stand best with edification Among which S. Basill rehearseth some that long since are abolished as the rite of standing in praier one the Lords daie and betweene Easter and Whitsontid which of it selfe is a thing indifferent as also that manner of glorifying in which they said with the holy ghost whereas al the Church long since hath said neither in the holie Ghost nor with the holie Ghost but to the holie Ghost To beleeue that the holie Ghost is to be glorified equallie with the Father and the sonne it is necessarie to saluation but in what forme of wordes that shal be song in the Church it is indifferent and the later Church hath vsed her libertie herein to alter that forme which Saint Basill saith was deliuered by the Apostles themselues without writing By this I hope it is manifest what kinde of traditions are of equall force or authoritie with the scripture euen they which haue their ground in the scriptures and none other For as the same Basill affirmeth Euerie word or deede ought to be confirmed by testimonie of the holie Scriptures Againe For if all that is not of faith is sinne as the Apostle saith and faith is of hearing and hearing by the word of God whatsoeuer is beside the holie Scripture being not of faith is sinne Thus Basill whatsoeuer he speaketh of vnwritten traditions he meaneth not against the insufficiencie of the holie scriptures except you will saie he is contrarie to him-selfe in manie places beside these that I haue noted Tr. de vera piafide Epist. 80. in Reg. Breu. Inter. 1. 65. 68. de ornatu Monachi Your next testimonie is out of Eusebius lib. 1. Eu. Demonst. cap. 8. whole wordes you mangle after your manner leauing out at your pleasure more then you rehearse Eusebius hauing shewed the excellencie of Christ aboue Moses declareth also that there are two manners ofliuing in Christianitie the one of them that are strong and perfect the other of them that are subiect to manie infirmites and that whereas Moses did write in tables without life Christ hath written the perfect preceptes of the new Testament in liuing mindes his disciples following their Masters minde considering what Doctrine is meete for both sortes haue committed the one to writing as that which is necessarie to be kept of all the other they deliuered without writing to those that were able to receiue it wich haue excelled the common manner of men in knowledge in strength in abstinence c. And this is the meaning of Eusebius in that place not of anie traditions necessarie to saluation of euerie man which are not taught in the holy scriptures but of certaine precepts tending to perfection not enioyned to all but written in the heartes of some The third man is Epiphanius who you saie is more earnest then Eusebius writing against certaine heretikes called Apostolici which denied traditions as our Protestantes do Which is but a tale for they were more like to Popish monkes and friers then Protestantes For they professed to abstaine from marryage to poslesse nothing and such other superstitions they obserued But what saith Epiphanius for traditions He saith that we must vse tradition For all thinges can not be taken out of the scripture wherefore the holie Apostles deliuered somethings in the scriptures and something in tradition Mine answer to Epiphanius is the same that it was to Basilius Namelie that such things as were not expressed in plaine wordes in the scripture were approoued by tradition being neuertheles such thinges as were to be concluded necessarilie out of the scripture As in the question for which he alledgeth tradition it is manifest Tradiderunt c. the holie Apostles of God saith he haue deliuered vnto vs that it is sinne after virginitie decreed to be turned vnto marriage This the Papistes doubt not but that they are hable to prooue out of the scripture except where the Pope dispenseth And we acknowledge that where the vow was made a duisedly to a Godlie purpose and abilitie in the partie to performe it that it is sinne to breake it neither can the Pope dispense with it In the other place where he rehearseth manie examples of traditions he speaketh of rites and ceremonies as is before declared wherof manie are not obserued in the Popish Church neither is there anie of them necessarie to saluation But Epiphanius you saie prooueth it out of scripture 1. Cor. 11. 14. 15. vhere Saint Paulsaith as I deliuered vnto you And againe so I teach and so I haue deliuered vnto the Churches and If you holde fast except you haue beleeued in vaine To the first I answer that it prooueth no traditions necessarie to saluation which are not contained in the scriptures as is more manifest by the second and third text for where Saint Paul saith so I teach in all the Churches of God 1. Cor. 14. 33. he saith immediatelie before that God is not the God of sedition but of peace 1. Cor. 15. 1. 2. 3. the Apostle speaketh manifestlie of the doctrine of the resurrection wherof he him-selfe in that place writeth plentifullie and in manie other places of scripture the same article is taught moste expresselie You see therefore how substantiallie Epiphanius prooueth tradition vnwritten out of the scripture to be necessarie to saluation which is our question But with Epiphanius saie you ioyneth fullie and earnestlie Saint Chrysostome writing vpon these wordes of Saint Paul to the purpose Stand fast and holde traditions out of which cleere wordes Saint Chrysostome maketh this illation Hinc patet c. Hereof it is euident that the Apostles deliuered not all by epistle but manie thinges also without writing and those are as worthie credit as these Therefore we think the tradition of the Church to be worthie of credit it is a tradition seeke no more The sense of these wordes is that the Apostles in their preaching did expresse manie things more perticularly then in their epistles not that they preached anie thing necessarie to saluation but that the same was contained either in their epistles or in other bookes of the holie scripture And so I saie of the tradition of the Church which is a doctrine contained in the scriptures though not expressed in the same or in so manie wordes as the three persons and one God in trinitie and trinitie in vnitie to be worshipped c. is of equall credit with that which is expressed in the scriptures because the ground of our faith standeth not vppon the sound of wordes but vppon
the sense and true meaning of thinges them-selues And this is Chrisostomes meaning not of traditions altogether without the compasse of the scriptures and yet held necessarie to saluation For of the sufficiencie of the scri ptures he speaketh in diuers places and namelie vppon that cleere text 2. Tim. 3. Hom 9. of the scripiure he saith Siquid vel diseere velignorare opus sit illic addiscemus If anie thing be needefisli to know or not to know in the scriptures we shall learne But because you saie those wordes of Saint Paulare cleere 2. Thess. 2. for vnwritten tradititions I praie you what argument can you conclude out of them Saint Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians something by preaching and something by writing ergo he deliuered something that is not contained in the holie scriptures written either by himselfe or anie other of the holie men of God appointed for that purpose Who is so childish thinke you to graunt you this consequence therefore for anie thing you haue brought or can bring or anie thing that the fathers haue said or can saie the word of God writ ten is perfect and hable to make a man wise to saluation by faith in Iesus Christ which is to be had sufficientlie in the holie scriptures as Christ him-selfe doth witnes Iohn 5. 39. And so the former conclusion doth still stand It is great iniquitie to receiue traditions altogether beside the holie scripture as necessarie to saluation which must needes argue the holie scriptures of imperfection and vnsufficiencie Neither doth the consent of Antiquitie refute this assertion of Master Charke seeing the auncients as it is said spake either of doctrine not expressed in word but contained in deede in the scriptures or els of rites and ceremonies the perpetuall obseruation where of is not necessatie to eternall life as is prooued by the discussing of manie of them which the elder fathers do father vpon the tradition of the Apostles as much as anie other that they name And if you saie they were deceiued in such as are abolished how shall we know that 〈◊〉 not in such as are retained For in their 〈◊〉 they were all generallie receiued as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well such as are discontinued as those 〈◊〉 remaine 〈◊〉 if any man will aske you what be these Apostolicall 〈◊〉 in particuler you could alleadge him testimonies 〈◊〉 auncient fathers for a great number But you referr 〈◊〉 Saint Cyprian Serm. de ablut pedum Tertullian 〈◊〉 milit and Saint Hieron dialog contra Luciferianos 〈◊〉 say he shall finde store Belike your note booke 〈◊〉 you thither although you listed not to take so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your selfe but turne it ouer to your 〈◊〉 Howbert he that is disposed to read the sermon 〈◊〉 Cyprian shall finde no store at all but of the necessitie of washing offcete which ceremonie was taken by the example of Christ yet is not thought necessarie in the Popish Church at this daie Tertullian in deede hath some prety store yet not to mantaine popish traditions so much as to ouerthrow them For he 〈◊〉 some things that are taken out of the scripture as to renounce the deuill in Baptisme c. some that are growne out of vse manie hundred yeares agoe as that the baptized should taste of milke and honie that they should abstaine from washing seauen daies after That men should signe their forheade at euerie steppe and proceeding going forth and comming home at putting on of apparell and at pulling on of shooes at washings at table at lighting of candells at beddes at stooles at all times and places Saint Hierome also in the person of the heretike rehearseth traditiones and among them such as Papistes do not obserue namelie the mixture of milke and honie geuen to them that are newlie baptized On the Lords daie and during the wholl time of Pentecoste neither to kneele in praiers nor to fast These are parte of those Apostolical traditions in particular which if they had beene necessary to saluation must haue beene perpetuallie continued If they were vntruelie ascribed to the Apostles what wartant can we haue of any other seeing the most auncient writers commend these as much as anie other for Apostolicall traditions Yet a few other examples you wil adde out of Saint Augustine whoe prooueth baptisme you sare by tradition of the Church lib. 10. de gen ad lit cap. 23. to this answere hath beene made sufficientlie in the 11. section that Saint Augustine doth not defend baptisme of infants onelie by the custome of the Church but also by the scriptures Likewise you saie he prooueth by the same tradions that we must not rebaptize those which are baptized of heretikes lib. 2. de bapt capt 7. lib. 1. cap. 23. lib. 4. cap. 6 It is true that he perwsadeth him selfe that this custome of not rebaptizing came from the Apostles tradition yet doth he by many arguments out of scripture prooue that such are not to be baptized againe which haue beene once baptized although by heretikes and therefore he saith of the same matter Hoc planè verum est quia ratio veritas consuetudini praeponenda est Sed cùm consuetudini veritas suffragatur nihil oportet firmius retineri This is plainlie true that reason and truth is to be preferred before custome but when truth consenteth with custome nothing ought more steadefastlie to be 〈◊〉 You see therefore that he buildeth not onelie vppon custome or tradition which is the matter in question but vppon trueth and reason which is founded by the holie scriptuers Your middle quotation de bap lib. 1. cap. 23. you may correct against your nextreplie for there are but 19. Chapters in that booke Againe you saie He prooueth by tradition the celebration of the Pentecost commonlie called Whitsontide ep 11 c. 1. If it were as you saie it is but a matter of ceremony not necessarie to saluation but in the power of the Church to alter as many like which are abrogated But in trueth he prooueth it not as you say by tradition For these are his wordes Illa autem quae non scripta c. But those thinges which are kept beeing not written but deliuered which are obserued thoroughout all the worlde it is giuen to be vnderstoode that they are retained as commended and decreed either by the Apostles them-selues or by generall Councells the authoritie of which is moste whollesome in the Church as that the passion of our Lord and his resurrection ascension into heauen and the comming of the holie ghoste from heauen are celebrated with yearelie solemnitie You see by his owne wordes that he is not certaine whether he should laie this ceremoniall celebration vpon deliuery of the Apostles or vpon decrees of general coun cells And whencesoeuer they came the matter is not great in such thinges as of their owne nature are indifferent and therefore alterable by discretion of the Church in all times Whether the Apostles were baptized which is
of the canonicall scripture which was receiued by Christ and his Apostles and the primitiue Church long after them But the Papists adde of their owne authoritie to the holie canon and therefore as much are they subiect to gods curse as if they did take away Neither doth Luther discredit or deface the whol epistle of Saint Iames as you saie although in comparison of some other bookes of scripture by a similitude he maketh it farre inferior to them What Doctor Fulke and Master Whitaker haue written the one of the booke of Maccaebees the other of Tobie they haue sufficientlie maintained in their replies whereunto I remit the reader and for Master Charkes reuiling of Iudith to the reporte of the disputation in which your impudent slaunder is confuted Where you conclude that no man in the world euer spake more reuerentlie of holie scripture then Iesuites do you ouer reach very much as you do very often They which teach that the holyscripture is sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation speake more reuerently then the Iesuits whichdeny the sufficiency of the scripture for the instru ction of the Church Last of al the Censure ridiculously charged M. Charke with fraudulent translation of this worde Immaculata when he alledgeth this text psal 19. as oppo sit to your nose of waxe The law of the Lord is perfect out of the original tongue the best translations from which the greek in sense dessenteth not not out of the olde latine translation Now you trifle to no purpose about the Hebrew Greeke Latine termes which to those that are but me anelie learned are well enough knowne what they signifie And first if you should graunt al that M. Chark said you thinke he had gained nothing For you also confes that the law of the Lord is perfect but not in that sense wherein M. Chark vsech it to wit that because the law of the Lord is perfect therefore the scripture cannot be wrested And afterward when you haue tolde vs that these wordes vnde filed irreprehensible and perfect which answer the latine greeke and Hebrue wordes 〈◊〉 not much in sense for whatsoeuer is irreprehensible and vnspotted may also be called perfect you conclude that this doth not prooue the scriptures to be perfect in sense in such sort as it maie not be wrested or peruerted You say true but it is false that Master Chark maketh anie such illation as you charge him For thus he inferreth the lawe of God is perfect ergo it cannot be wrested as a nose of wax or as his owne wordes are the scripture is perfect and manteineth her perfection against all corruptions as a right line sheweth it selfe bewraieth that which is crooked The lawe of a wise man as hath beene said before may be so perfect as it cannot be wrested like a nose of waxe into anie sense that the wrester wil imagine but that his vaine cauillation shall be odious and ridiculous to al men Much rather is the lawe of God so perfect as though all the deuilles in hell should breake their braines to wrest and peruertit yet can they neuer wrest it like a nose of wax to euerie side or shape but that the perfect sense of the scripture remaineth ful constant and manifest to them that haue the spirit of God yea euen to them that will iudge but indifferentlie according to right reason By the waie you charge Master Charke with railing and inueighing against your olde translation and with running he careth not whether forging he careth not what and reprehending he careth not whome yet in all that discourse he hath no more wordes of it but these your olde translation doth goe alone In which wordes what rayling running forging reprehending inueihing may be conteined let ihe wiser sort iudge and fooles learne to be wiser But where he saith that the best translations differ from the olde translation you aske what best or better or other good latine translation hath he then the olde As though none might be good but your olde translation I perceaue you would not acknowledge any good of them that were set forth by Munster Leo Iude or anie other professed protestant yet what saie you to the translation of Vatablus a famous and learned reader of Paris How dare you condemne the translation of Pagnine of the olde testament and Erasmus of the new testament as naught which the Pope allowed as good Finallie what exceptions can you take to the translation of Isidorus Clarius censured and approoued by the deputies of the Councell of Trent maie none of these be good better or best but that your olde translation hath the prerogatiue in goodnes in all degrees that it leaueth all other behinde it as nought O waightie censure of a wise Papist But let vs see wherein the excellencie of the olde translation doth consist as you suppose First you saie it was in vse in Gods Church aboue 13. hundred yeares past as maie be seene by the citations of the fathers which liued then But euen those verie citations doe prooue the contrarie at the least that it was not in generall vse in the latine Church Saint Augustine in the place by you quoted for the bowe of heretikes where your translation hath in obscuro did reade in obscura luna and standeth much vpon exposition of the darke moone Yea throughout the wholl Psalter whosoeuer wil compare the text which Saint Augustine vsed with your olde translation shall finde great difference betweene them But this your olde translation you tell vs was afterward oueruewed and corrected by Saint Ierome we know verie well that Saint Ierome did oueruew and correct a certaine auncient translation of the septuaginta that was vfed in his time But how are you hable to prooue that this your vulgar translation is the same either corrected or vncorrected For it appeareth by the citations of diuerse of the latine Church which liued after Saint Ierome that they vsed an other text then this translation euen vntill the daies of Bernard When you saie that this your olde translati on was highlie commended by Saint Augustine you make such a shameles 〈◊〉 as you obiect without shame to M. Charke when he saith that the Septuaginta agree with the hebrue in signification of the word perfecte for they saie irreprehensible which must needes be perfect but so is not your latine 〈◊〉 vnspotted or vndefiled which you your selfe in your censure do egerlie contend to be differing from perfection You name the translation of Erasmus and Luther of which the one translated onelie the new testament which Leo. 10. and Clemens 7. did both allow the other translated not the Bible at all in latine except perhappes some partes vpon which he wrote commentaries Here your Printer will make vs beleeue that you were remooued with a writ de remouendo so as you could proceede no further but now there is a writ de renouando sued against you if you
continueth for euer in the high ministerie and seruice of the Church Thus I saie doth he remit sinnes Hunt principem Saluatorem exaltauit dextra sua ad dandam poenitentiam Israeli remissionem peccatorum This our Prince and Sauiour hath God exalted with his right hand to giue penance and remission to Israell of all their sinnes This power hath our high priest de serued for his obedience therfore as he receiued it so he hath left it in his Church his owne holie wordes dot protest that same For vpon his power and sending which he did receiue of his father all the Priestes doe euerlastingly hold the right of al holy functions which ells but by Christes owne commission and sending they could neuer nor neuer durst haue practized so long FVLKE It were a more direct sequele for a Priest or Elder of the Church to maintaine and defend his power that he practizeth in preaching baptizing and remitting of sinnes by the calling of Christ who hath all power in heauen and in earth for otherwise it followeth not because Christ hath all power therefore man without calling and authoritie receiued from Christ maie execute anie part thereof But in your application where you saie that Christ pardoneth and enioineth pennance for mans sinnes in the ministerie of the Church I graunt he pardoneth where the power which he hath giuen to the Church is duelie executed But for enioining penance in that sense that papistes doe speake it which is a peece of satisfaction for mens sinnes you are neuer able to prooue that Christ either in his owne person enioyned anie or by meane or ministerie of anie man doth enioine such penance and therefore the text you cire Acts the 5. is wretchedlie writhen from the true meaning and falselie translated as I haue shewed before by testimonies of your owne translaters the English Rhemists who read it thus This Prince and sauiour God hath exalted with his right hand to giue repentance to Israell and remission of sins Where the text is so plaine of the 〈◊〉 conuersion of the Iewes vnto Christ that they were ashamed to turne the worde poenitentia as they doe moste commonlie penance by which they meane some workes of satisfaction which are enioined to them that commit sinne after baptisme As likewise Acts. II. where it is said God then to the Gentills hath giuen repentance vnto life Where by as good reason and in like sense you might saie that God hath giuen penance to the gentiles taking penance in your popsh meaning or els you haue greatlie abused the scripture to prooue that Christ enioineth penance by popish Priests by that saying of the Apostles Actes 5. whereby they meane that God hath exalted Christ to conuert the Israelites from Iudaisme to the Gospell and to giue them saluation in the free remission of sinnes which of it selfe excludeth all other satisfaction then such as Christ him-selfe hath made to answere the iustice of God whose obedience hauing satisfied for our disobedience vpon our true and vnfained repentance which will appeare by the fruites thereof we are receiued into fauour all our sinnes being freelie forgiuen for Iesus Christes sake ALLEN And whosoeuer seeth not how the power iurisdiction of so excellent actions passeth from God the Father to his onelie Sonne and from him againe to such as he hath sent and made the messengers of his blessed minde and disposers of mysteries he hath no feeling at al of the waies that he wrought for mans redemption he can not atteine to the intelligence of Christs vnction whereby he is made our head priest he in the middest of the glorious light of the Church can not beholde the practize of so he auenlie mysteries and therefore such things as he knoweth not he blasphemeth saith S. Iude. But to worke all in light and order I will build vpon the forsaid the intended conclusion that the a duersaries maie see and behold the force of our faith and the singular weaknes of their assertions I thus ioyne with them in arguments barelie and plainlie without couert That power and commission which was giuen to Christ by his heauenlie Father concerning remission or retaining of sinnes was giuen to the Apostles at his departure hence But Christ him selfe did truclie effectuallie and in proper forme of speach by his Fathers sending and and commission remit sinnes Ergo The ministers of Christ maie and doe truclie and perfectlie remit sinnes Or thus more briefilie As Christ was sent of his Father so are the Apostles sent by Christ But Christ was sent to forgiue sinnes Ergo the Apostles be fent to forgiue sinnes also The second part of the reasons which is that Christ had power of his Father to remit sinnes and was sent for the same purpose is sussicienlie prooued in the Chapter before The first part of the argument standeth vpon the sure ground of Christs owne wordes which be these Like as my Father sent me so I doe send you Which wordes were so plaine and so deepelie noted for this intent of Saint Chrysostome that with admiration of the dignitie and excellent calling of Priesthood he thus trimlie discourseth vpon them I will report his saying in Latin as Germanus Brixius hath translated it all that speaketh for that purpose hereafter shall be recited but now no more but this Quid hoc aliud esse dicas nisi omnium rerum coelestium potestatem illis à Deo esse concessam Ait enim Quorumcunque peccata retinueritis retenta sunt Quaenam obsecro potestas hac vna maior esse queat Pater omnifariam filio potestatem dedit caeterùm video ipsam eandem omnifariam potesiatem à Deo filio illis traditam Nam quasi iam in coelum translati ac supra humanam naturam positi atque nostris ab affectibus exempti sic illi ad principatum istum perducti sunt And in English thus it is What e's canst thou make of this or what lesse then that the power and iurisdiction of all heauenlie things is by God graunted vnto them for it is said whose sinnes soeuer you doe holde or reteine they be retained For Gods loue what power can be giuen in the world so great the Father bestowed all manner of power vpon his Sonne I finde the verie selfe same power of all thinges to be deliuered to the Apostles by God the Sonne For now as though they were al readie translated out of this life to heauen and there promoted aboue mans nature and discharged of all our feeble affections they are aduanced to the Princelie soueraigntie whereof we now haue said Thus farre Chrysostome So doth this worthie father helpe our cause and so doth he thinke of the excellent authority giuen by the father to his Sonne deriued from him to the ministers of his holy will testament in earth Whose iurisdiction so highlie holden so truely obteined so neerely ioyned vnto Christs honour and so dailie practized no
warrant of Christ his power receiued by the holy ghost maie as ministers seruants remit or retaine sins we do most willinglie consent and confesse But then they practise this power as seruants when they beinterpreters and declarers of the Lordes will and pleasure and require not that God should followe their sentence or attend how they be affected to forgiue or retaine and so to subscribe vnto their doing for that is an Antichristian vsurpation farre from the meaning of that power which Christ did graunt to his A postles ALLEN Some holie writers vpon this text of S. Iohn in which the order of Christes authorizing his Apostles for the remission of sinnes is described doe dispute of the difference of giuing the holie Ghost then to his Disciples and afterward on Whitsondaie some note the eternall ceremonie that our Master vsed when he gaue them the holie spirit which was by breathing on them that such outward actions might both be an euidence to them of that excellent gift which they inwardlie then receiued and should further be an euerlasting instruction to the Church that Gods grace and giftes be often ioyned to externall elements for the solace of our nature that delighteth to haue our outward man schooled as wel as the inward man nourished These and manie things moe be of profitable remembrance and consideration but not so much to our purpose Therefore let vs see whether the iudgement of the holie Fathers doe not wholie helpe our present cause prouing the Priests ministerie through the holie Ghostes authoritie that our declaration standing on the plaine wordes of scripture with their vndoubted sense maie obtaine inuincible force against the aduersaries worthie credit of the true beleeuers FVLKE If you had expressed what the writers are that thus dispute or discourse vpon this text we might better haue considred how pertinent or impertinent their opinions are to our matter in controuersie S. Chrysost. seemeth to allowe the opinion of some and Euthymius plainely affirmeth the same that the Apostles at this time did not presentlie receiue the holie ghost but onelie were prepared or made capable thereof which if it were true is contrarie to the title of your Chapter I like better of Cyrillus iudgement which thinketh they presentlie receiued the holie Ghost in some measure but not so plentifullie nor with such diuersitie of giftes as on the daie of Pentecost That the grace of God is testified assured and sealed vp vnto vs for the help of our infirmitie by outward signes and externall elementes ioined thereto we know confesse but as for the solace of our nature or delight to haue our outward man schooled I knowe not what they meane It is great mercie of God to beare with our weakenes but it agreeth not with the discipline of the Gospell that we should delight in outward thinges but rather to exercise our faith in spirituall and heauenlie meditations ALLEN We will make our entrance first with Saint Cyrill whoe debating with himselfe vppon the incomparable authoritie and power giuen to the Apostles for remission of sinnes standeth first as in contention with him selfe and with Christs words how it maie be that they being but men should forgiue the sinnes of our soules being sure of this that it is the propertie onelie of the true liuing god to assoile vs of our sinnes against whom onlie all sins be properlie committed And therfore being not of stomake as men be now a daies to denie that which Christes words so plainelie do import he made answere that the Apostles were in deed deified and made as you would saie partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world Qua igitur ratione saieth he diuinae naturae dignitatem ac potestatem discipulis suis saluator largitus est Quia certè absurdum non est peccata remitti posse ab illis qui Spiritum sanctum in seipsis habeant Nam cùm ipsi remmittunt aut detinent spiritus qui habitat in eis remittit detines By what meanes did our Sauiour giue vnto the Apostles the preheminence and power of Gods owne nature Surelie because it agreeth verie well that they should rimit mans sins that haue in themselues the holie Ghost For when they assoile or retaine sins it is the holie spirit that dwelleth in them which by their ministery doth remit or retaine sins Thus he I maruell not now whie this same father termeth the Apostles sometimes protectores curatores animarum corporum the protectors curers both of bodies soules it is not strange whie S. Ambrose should call the order of priestood Ordinem 〈◊〉 Neither that he should terme Officium Sacerdotis munus S. S. The Priests office to be the function of the holie Ghost No I doe not wonder at some of our forefathers that in the admiration of Gods Maiestic which they same to be so present in the execution of so high in office they did simplie and plainely terme the principall Pastours of the Church halfe Gods and not meere men not hauing respect to their persons which be compassed with infirmities as other the sinfull sort of people in the world be but casting eie vpward to the holie and excellent function which they practised by the spirit of God which dwelleth in them and deifieth their persons to make them of habilitie to exercise the workes of God FVLKE Saint Cyrill is farre from that blasphemie to saie that the Apostles were in deede deified and made partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world For ascribing to God that which is proper to him incommunicable to anie meere creature he maketh this obiection how our sauiour did graunt to his disciples the dignitie power of his diuine nature answereth that they were only made ministers instruments of the holy ghost to expresse his power in remitting sinnes by baptisme and repentance whereof S. Chrysostome also saieth vpon the same text that the Priest giueth onelie his tongue and his hand but the Father the sonne and the holie Ghost doth all things in this case I will rehearse the whole saying of Cyrillus that his iudgement maie more fullie appeare vpon this text Et certè solius veri Dei est c. And suerlie it pertaineth to the onelie true God that he is able to loose men from their sinnes For to what other person is it lawfull to deliuer the transgressors of the law from sinne but to the author of the law him-selfe for so in mennes affaires we see it to be done For no man without punishment doth reprooue the lawes of Kings but the Kinges them-selues in whome the crime of transgression hath no place For it is wiselie said that he is implous which shall saie to a King thou doest vniustlie By what meanes then did our Sauiour graunt to his disciples the dignitie and power of the diuine nature because trulie it is not absurde that sinnes may be remitted
same worke of binding and loosing of such sheepe of Christes folde as to them were committed And so did Saint Thomas who then was not there so did Saint Matthew who then was no Apostle so did Barnabas so did Timothie and Titus who were ordeined by Saint Paul and so did Paul him selfe of whome Saint Ambrose saith that he did remit sinnes without all derogation The good studiousereader must marke wel then that al these holie functions or passing preheminencies are not giuen to the priuate persons in respect of themselues neither of Peter nor of Paul nor any other but they are bestowed vpon them for the vse of the Church which dieth in their persons and therefore must be honoured with the same offices by other after they be dead by perpetuall succession they shall neuer cease And that caused Saint Augustine and other holie fathers to saie the keies were giuen to the Church and authoritie to remit sinnes to baptize and to enioyne penance not because the wholl Church by gathering all her children together must giue sentence vpon euerie sinner or els the priests iudgement to be nothing as some foolish seditious heades haue now to the distrurbance of the world deuised but because it is our common wealth and house of faith which is so beutified in her ministers with all kinde of sacraments and good orders for the gouernment of her children and because all men may see it was the earnest loue and carefull prouidence for this his spouse and not the persons of the Apostles in respect of them selues which mooued his wisedome to the institution of such perpetuall offices in the Church FVLKE Your conclusion is true that the power extended to al the Apostles successors but it is not strongly prooued by the example of Thomas Matthew Paull and Bernabas who were Apostles them-selues in the highest degree and therefore I like better the solution of Cyrillus which vnderstandeth the intention of Christ to haue beene of the wholl order of the Apostles and their successours although more then Thomas had beene absent at such time as he gaue that power alledging the examples of Eldad and Meldad which being of the number that were chosen to be gouernours to assist Moses although they were not present with the rest before the tabernacle yet they were indued with the spirit of prophesie because they were of the number appointed Where you saie that no doubt a Sacrament was instituted by these wordes of Christ and often haue so saide you onelie saie it and bring no proofe thereof neither doe you declare what is the visible signe of the inuisible grace nor what 〈◊〉 the element to which the worde commeth that we might acknowledge a sacrament with you That the keies are giuen to the Church although it prooue 〈◊〉 that euerie member of the Church should execute them yet it prooueth that Peter had no soueraigne nor singular authoritie of the keies aboue the rest of the Apostles but that the Pastour of euerie Church hath the same not of the gift graunt commission or permission of Peter but of the graunt and immediate commission from Iesus Christ him-selfe Whether the power of excommunication perteine to all the Church or to certaine chosen gouernours thereof it is a question not incident to this to be handled ALLEN Hereupon therefore and in consideration that the keies of opening and shutting heauen by binding and loosing mans sinnes shall euer remaine for the vse and honour of the Church the saied holie Saint Augustine hath these wordes Claues dedit Ecclesiae suae vt quae solucrit in terra soluta essent in coelo quae ligauerit in terra ligata essent in 〈◊〉 Christ deliured the keyes to the Church that whoesoeuer shee loosed in earth should be loosed in heauen and whatsoeuer shee bound in earth should be bound likewise in heauen And Optatus his equall striuing with the Donatistes for all holie giftes which Christ bestowed vpon his Church challengeth all other sacraments and namelie the keies for the Catholike and vniuersall Church from the part of Donatus the heretike as in the right of Peter He saieth exceeding pithely Claues darae sunt Petro non haereticis And afterwade Cathedram Petri quae nostra est per ipsam caeteras dotes apud nos esse probamus etiam sacerdotium The keies are giuen to Peter and not to heretikes by the chaier of Peter which is ours we prooue all other giftes of the Church to be ours yea euen priesthoode Thus he hath in sense in diuerse places By which we see the inrisdiction and power giuen to the principall Apostle yet to remaine and by it all other the Churches notable preheminences which he calleth Ecclesiae dotes The douries of the Church through his wholl discourse against the Donatists So doth Epiphanius attribute the power of penance and pardon to the Church likewise not onelie in baptisme which he calleth the moste perfect penance but also afterwarde vpon the parties relapse in which case the heretikes called Cathari affirmed that the Church had no authoritie to pardon them any more Against which pernicious sect he sayeth If any man fall after his baptisme the Church will not be vnmercifull to him Dat enim reuersionem post poenitentiam For shee giueth him leaue to returne and hath penance after penance By which he noteth that the Church hath two sacraments for remission of sinne the one is baptisme which he termeth perfect penance with Saint Paul to the Hebrewes And Saint Augustine doth call it in his En. chiridion Magnam indulgentiam a graund pardon And afterward The Church hath an other kinde of remission which Epiphanius calleth poenitentiam post poenitentiam But of these two more shal be said anon After this 〈◊〉 doth Lactantius 〈◊〉 to the true Church confession penance and profitable healing of our woundes and such sores as be found in our soules By all which euerie man may conceiue easelie that this honour and commission of priesthoode for the remission of our sinnes did not decaie with the Aposties appointed by Christ nor shall cease till Christes comming to 〈◊〉 the worlde FVLKE These testimonies needed not to be heaped vp in vaine but that you would beare the ignorant in hand most iniurioslie that Caluin and the better learned of the protestants do holde that the power of binding and loosing ated with the Apostles and continueth not in the Church Saint Augustines wordes are as you cite them but there followeth immediatlie an explication which you haue omitted Scilicet vt quis quis in Ecclesia eius dmitti sibi peccata non crederet non eidimitterentur quisquis autem crederet seque ab his correctus auerteret in eiusdem Ecclesiae gremio constitutus eadem fide atque correctione sanareiur Quisquis enim non cred it dimitti sibi posse peccata fit deterior disperando quasi nihil illi melius quà m malum esse remanear
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euerie man that hath but small knowledge in the tongue doth know to signifie and require a mutual confession aswell as a mutuall praier of one man for another But yet let vs examine what your authorities doe containe First Origen in the place by you cited speaketh not a word of this text confesse your offences one to another but only of the two verses going before For making seauen meanes of remitting of sinnes after his corrupt vnpure manner of teaching By baptisme by martyrdome by almes by forgiueing one another by conuerting of sinners by aboundance of charitie he addeth the seauenth in these wordes Est adhuc septima licet dura laboriosa perpaenitentiam remissio peccatorum cum lauat peccator in lachrimis stratum suum fiunt ei lachrima suae pánes die nocte Et cùm non erubescit sacerdoti Domini indicare peccatum suum quaerere medicinam secundùm eum qui ait Dixi pronunciabo aduersum me iniustitiam meam Domino tu remisisti impietatem cordis mei in quo impletur illud quod Apostolus dicit si quis autem insirmatur vocet Presbyteror Ecclesiae imponant ei manus vngentes eum oleo in nomine Domini oratio fidei saluabit 〈◊〉 si in peccatis fuerit remittentur ei There remaineth yet the seauenth kinde of remission of sins although it be verie harde and painfull by repentance When the sinner washeth his bed in teares and his teares are made vnto him breade daie and night and when he is not ashamed to declare his sinne to the Priest of the Lorde and to seeke medicine acording to him which saith I haue said I will pronounce against my selfe my owne vnrighteousnes vnto the Lord and thou hast forgiuen me the vngodlines of my heart In which also that is fullfilled which the Apostle saith if anie man be diseasedl et him call the Elders of the Church let them lay hands vpon him anoynting him with oile in the name of the Lord and the praier of faith shall saue the diseased and if he shal be in sinnes they shal be forgiuen vnto him Thus much writeth Origen Now it is to be vnderstood that after his manner he alligorizeth vpon the sacrifices of the lawe comparing these meanes of remission to them And lest you should thinke that by declaring of sinne to the Priest of the Lord he doth meane confession to a popish priest he himselfe expoundeth before whom he meaneth by this Priest In morali loco potest pontisex isse esse sensus pietatis religionis videri qui in nobis per orationem obsecrationes quas Deo fundimus velut quodam sacerdotio fungitur In morall place this high Priest may seeme to be the sense of godlines religion which within vs by praiers and supplications which we powre forth to God exerciseth as it were a certaine priesthood And so likewise he taketh the place of Saint Iames alligoricallie as his application of the seauenth waie of remission vnto the Iudaicall sacrifice doth declare Si autem in amaritudine fletus fueris luctu lachrimis lamentatione confect us si carnem tuam maceraueris 〈◊〉 ac multa abstinentia aridam feceris dixeris quia sicut frixorium confrixa sunt ossa mea tunc sacrificium similam à sartagine vel à craticula obiulisse te 〈◊〉 But if thou hast bene in the bitternes of weeping consumed with sorowe teares and lamentation if thou hast afflicted thy slesh and made it drie with fasting and much abstinence and said my bones are fried as a frying pane or a fire thing then knowe that thou hast offered in sacrifice flower of the frying panne or of the gredeyorn Origen therefore giueth a colour in words but no substance in matter vnto this popish confession Concerning the opinion and authoritie of Bede touching this matter I haue spoken before but by the circumstance of the letter you saie it may well appeere that the Apostle speaketh of sacramentall confession to be made to gods priests How so I praie you forsooth Because he had there willed them to send for the Priestes of the Church to anoynt them and streight after addeth this text of confession and praying ouer the sicke A simple reason god wot because priests were spoken of in an other matter therefore none but priests may be vnderstoode in that which followeth nay rather the circumstances make against auricular confession and popish anointing also For what needes more priests then one to be sent for to other of those popish purposes or what papist sendeth for more although there be neuer so manie priests in the Church But the companie of elders in the primitiue Church being chosen of the moste replenished with heauenly graces that were in the congregatiō both for the gift of healing for praier to be made ouer the sick man were most conuenient to be sent for But it is in vaine by couller of anie circumstances to restraine the confession to priestes when the verie wordes of the letter as you call the text doe make it generall and mutual and therefore here was no cause for Luther to denie the authoritie of the epistle or for anie other to corrupt the text But where you count it a corruption to writ in stead of send for the priestes of the Church this call for the Elders of the congregation you doe either abuse the ignorant of willfull malice to make them thinke the sounde of words being changed the sense is anie thing altered or else you ignorantlie quarell about the translation which is word for word out of the originall greeke into English as no man meanelie learned in that tongue can doubt It is not the sounde of the wordes you rehearse that troubleth vs for we both like and vse them in their right sense our selues but it sufficeth you to haue an accidentall sounde when you cannot sinde a substantiall reason of your popish ceremonies and sacraments in the holie scriptures ALLEN But that thou maiest see good Christian reader the necessity of confession the better and that it is not growne to such a generall practize and opinion of necessitie vpon anie charge giuen by man or positiue lawes marke well with me that it dependeth directlie vpon Christes owne wordes whose sinnes you doe forgiue they be forgiuen and whose sinnes you doe retaine they be retained And therefore sacramentall confession to be of Christes institution For if Christ gaue power to Priestes to forgiue or retaine mens sinnes then there must needes be some subiect to their power iudgement else in vaine were so long a confession of binding and lossing mens sinnes if the right of the power did not necessarilie charge all men that haue such sinnes to be subiect to their binding and loosing Therefore this is a cleare case that in the verie 〈◊〉 wordes that the power was deliuered vnto them the bond of obedience was also perscribed
fourth booke of his ecclesiasticall historie of our Church FVLKE The decree of the Constantinopolitan councell in sense is the same with the former but not word for word nay almoste it hath neuer a word alike But it is to be vnderstood of publike penitentes to be bounde or loosed according to their qualitie of the offence the greatnes of their repentance The words are these It behoueth that they which haue receiued of god the power of loosing and binding consider the qualitie of the sinne and the readines of the sinner vnto returning that so they maie vse a medicine fit for the disease lest if they should determine of sinne without difference they should erre from the health of the sick person For the disease of sinne is not simple but diuerse and of manie formes and budding vp with manie hurtfull branches by which the euill is spred farre and wide and creepeth so farre vntill at length it withstandeth the vertue of that which healeth Therefore he that will shew what skill he hath in the spirituall art of healing must diligentlie search out how he that hath sinned is affected whether he incline vnto health or contrariwise by those manners to which he is familiarlie accustomed prouoke the diseased to looke against him and whether he by him-selfe obeyeth his Master or whether the sore of the minde doth encrease by medicins that are laid to it and so mercie is to be bestowed by equall measure For there is great regarde both with God and with the gouernour of this pastorall care to bring home the wandring sheepe and to heale it being wounded by the serpent and neither to thrust it downe by the hedlonges of desperation nor to loose the raines vnto dissolution of life and contempt but by all meanes as well by sharp medicines as by gentle to withstand and striue that the sore maie be healed that he which knoweth the fruites of repentance maie wiselie gouerne the man being called vnto that heauenlie glorie Therefore he ought to know both kindes of medicines as well them that be of rigor as them that be of pittie and not to follow them which haue taken in hand onelie the vpper face of figures that are deliuered as Saint Basill hath taught vs. In this Canon there is no worde of confession or whereby the necessitie of confession maie be inferred vpon all men for their secret offences Neither can it be prooued that the penitentiarie priest once abrogated by Nectarius was euer restored The schoolmes opinion we are no more bound to follow in this then in other pointes of poperie Saint Bernard alloweth in deede confession made vnto the Priests and ministers of God but the necessitie thereof he doth not laie as a clogge on mens consciences The like I saie of S. Bede who in the booke and Chapter by you quoted speaketh of one Adamanus a scot who hauing committed some great wickednes in his youth when he considered the greeuosnes of his fact was in great distrust of minde and comming to a priest of whome he hoped that the waie of saluation might be shewed vnto him he confessed his guiltines and desired him to giue him counsell how he might auoid the wrath of God that was to come After this manner to come to confession we denie not but it is most expedient for them that are not quiered in conscience but that al men are bound by this or any other example to make a perticuler rehersall of their sinnes to a priest before they can haue remission Beda neither here nor els where teacheth ALLEN Before him S. Gregorie so well liketh and knoweth this practize of sacramentall confession that in his Pastorll he prescribeth the Priests of Gods Ghurch manie waies how to seeke out the diseases of their peoples soules and according to the varietie of the same to admit or put backe to pardon or to punish yea so plaine he is in this matter that he chargeth the Priest to be exceeding grieuoslie punished that in anie case shall vtter the Penitentes confession or anie parte thereof Againe farre aboue these holy Leo the great amending the hard custome that in some places of Italie Campania was vsed touching publike confession of priuat sins he saieth Reatus conscientiarum sussiciat solis sacerdotib indicari confessione secreta Quamuis enim plenitudo fidei videtur esse laudabilis que propter Dei timorem apud homines eruhescere non veretur tamen quia non omnium huiusmodi suntpeccata vt velint in poenitentiam ed publicari remoueatur tam improbabilis cohsuetudo ne multi à poenitentiae remedijs arceantur dum aut erubescunt aut metuunt 〈◊〉 sais facta suareserare quibus possint legum constitutione per elli Sufficit enim illa confessio quae primùm Deo offertur tunc 〈◊〉 saccrdoti qui pro debitis confitentium precator accedit Tunc enim demum piures ad poenitentiam potuerunt prouocari si populi auribus non publicetur conscientia confitentis It is enough that the guilt offences of mans conscience be opened to the Priests alone in secret confession For though the foruour of faith be verie laudable which is content for Gods sake to be ashamed before men yet because the sinnes of euerie man be not such that the penitent would gladlie vtter openlie let so raprobale custome be abolished lest manie be holden from the remedies of penāce whiles either they are ashamed or feare to open their deedes to their enimes by whom they might by order of law be punished For that confession is sufficient which is made first to God and then to the Priest also who will be an intercessour for the sinnes of them that confesse For then might moe be prouoked to penance if the secret conscience of the confessed be not published to the eares of the people Thus saith Saint Leo a man of that time and credit as our aduersaries would wish Let them saie now that priuat confession began in the Lateran Councell because that thing which euer was counted and vsed as necessarie was there decreed for the amending of the peoples sloth to be done euerie yeare once at the lest before they receiued the blessed sacrament As truly maie they saie that the Euchariste and receiuing thereof was begune in the same Councell by the verie same Canon For as there is charge that euerie man should be confessed so there is commaundement giuen that euerie man shall receiue once a yeare the blessed Sacrament So litle care they haue what they saie so that they saie enough to beguile them that can skil of nothing FVLKE Yf Saint Gregorie in his pastorall or els where had written any thing that might but make a face of the necessitie of auricular confession you would haue set downe some parte of his wordes or at least quoted the booke and Chapter where we might finde them but in trueth there is no such matter in all that worke conteining three
but the promise of truth which indeed if it be shewed so manifest that it cannot come in doubt it is to be preferred before all those things by which I am holden in the Catholike Church But if it be onelie promised and not exhibited no man shall mooue me from that faith which bindeth my minde with so manie and great knottes vnto Christian religion Let vs see therfore what Maniche doth teach me c. These wordes declare that setting aside the wisdom of the Church grounded vpō the scriptures which the heretikes would not acknowledge there were manie other things that might iustlie holde him in the Catholike Church among which the name of Catholikes was but one and serued onelie at that time when the Catholike religion was moste commonlie imbraced therefore he denied not that the name of Catholike onelie was sufficient to teach a man to knowe the Church and the trueth by it but acknowledgeth that all these motiues of vniuersalitie consent miracles succession name of Catholike must giue place to the trueth when it is plainlie shewed out of the canonicall scriptures as in the chapter following he vrgeth them to shew out of the gospells of Christ wher it is writen that Manicheus was an Apostle of Christ as his sect affirmed and his epistle pretended As for the reason you alledge that vnlearned men are not able to stand with heretikes in disputation which wil challenge the Church to themselues is of no force for the vnlearned man ought to know the Church by the true notes thereof conteined in the scriptures which is sufficient for to satisfie his conscience although he can not cunninglie auoide all the Sophisticall arguments that the aduersarie bringeth whereas theonelie name of Catholikes can breede no true faith or quietnes of minde which is not obteined by the peoples iudgement but by authoritie of the worde of God And seing the people are commonlie deceiued in many matters of difficultie and moste of all in misnaming of things what assurance shall the vnlearned haue that they be not deceiued in this so weightie a matter and wherein their speach may so easilie be abused But howsoeuer it was the common calling of the people brought you to know Catholikes Catholikes to know the Church and the creede taught you to beleeue the Church rules in Popes pardons then in other articles Thus is your faith builded altogether vpon humane presumptions the ladder whereof is this you beleeue Popes pardons because the Church of Rome alloweth them you beleeue the Church of Rome because it is the Catholike Church you beleeue that it is the Catholike Church because the people commonlie call it so But of Christian faith Saint Paull describeth another ladder faith commeth by hearing hearing by the worde of God preached by ministers sent of God so that against the authoritie of god who giueth both his worde and preachers and by them true faith you haue the generall and common calling of men which giue authority to that companie to be the Church which is surnamed Catholike which company so called may cause you to beleeue what they list and this indeed is the ground of al your heresies if you had gone one step lower that the Deuill inspireth ignorant and wicked men to call his fowle blouse the Romish synagogue by the name of the beautifull spouse of Christ his Catholike Church ALLEN The second cause that mooued me to reuerence the power of pardoning in the high Bishup and to like his Indulgences was the verie persons of them which first reprooued the same In whome because I saw the worlde to note and wonder at other manie moste blasphemous and inexcusable heresies I verilie deemed though I was then for my age almoste ignorant of all thinges that this opinion and impugnation of Pardons could neither be of God nor of good motion that first began in them begate such a number of most wicked cōtentio is opinions as streight vpon the controlling of the Churches power herein did ensue not onelie against Christs officers in earth but against his Saints in heauen against himselfe in the blessed Sacrament This extreame intollerable issue mee thought verilie could haue no holie entraunce and therfore with the other named cause stayed me in the Churches faith euen then when I had no feeling nor sense in the meaning of these matters FVLKE You were a wise young man in those daies when being almost ignorant of all things as you confesse you would follow the iudgement of the worlde in condemning the persons of them that reprooued pardons and were not able to iudge whether they were iustlie condemned of other blasphemous inexcusable heresies Nay at this presēt time as great a cleark as you are taken to be among your friends you are not able to conuince thē of such blasphemous inexcusable heresies as you prate of And yet if you had bin thō as able iustly to haue reproued thē by the scriptures of such monsters as the world did wonder at in them yet you staied vpō a weake staffe except this be a good atgumēt with you heretiks hold manifest false opinions therefore they holde no true opinions Much more wiselie and soundlie you should haue sought the true Church as Saint Augustine teacheth out of the scriptures and thereby iudged of the worldes noting and wondring which because it consisteth moste of wicked men doth commonlie condemne Christ and his Gospell Out of the same scripture you should haue learned who were Christes officers and whoe the limmes of Antichrist what honour is due vnto the saints in heauen and what manner presense there is of Christ vpon earth But as your faith was thē grounded vpō simple sophistrie in supposing that which no wise man will graunt so is it not now much differing from the same although you haue learned with more craft to peruert a few scriptures and to wrest the sayinges of some dctors for a florish hauing no more substance of true faith which is builded vpon the word of God then you had before For if your shameles principle be denyed that you are the Church of Christ then you come back to these beggerlie motyues as in your articles and Bristowes motyues is manifest being not able either to finde the notes of the true Church in the synagogue of Rome nor to iustify the doctrine of the Church of Rome to be builded vpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles when triall is to be made by their writings ALLEN But afterwad reading the historie of the pitifull fal of our time and there considering the sinister intent and occasion of the first improofe of Pardons and all the strange endeuours of Luther whose name is cursed to all good men who first in all mans memorie sauing one Wicleffe who was condemned in Constance Councell for the same was so bolde onelie vpon contention and couetousnes to condemne that which himselfe in Conscience knew to be true and lawfull I could not
that euer recouered by the Popes pardon among so many 1000. sick persons as haue receaued the Popes pardon was neuer none sick by gods appointment for satisfying of his iustice onelie But admit he were sick for other causes as welll as for that should not the popes pardon at the least take away some parte of his sicknes namelie so much as was laid vpon him for that cause onelie Let the Pope if he will make triall of his power to the confusion of his abuersaries graunt a generall pardon to all Papistes as he maie easilie do and then let it be tryed whether anie one shall straight recouer of his bodelie sicknes or other affliction or how manie shall be eased in their bodilie or wordly affliction Prouided alwaies that we haue no counter fait crankes that shall step vp sodenlie recouered of that disease whereof they were neuer sick But if you dare be bolde to saie that the Popes pardon can cause anie man to recouer straight vpon the recept of it you must also be bolde to say that the popes pardon can worke miracles for no man can sodainlie recouer of any disease which is not come to the period without miracle if the naturall cause thereof be not first taken awaie But alas who doth not see your miserable startinghole if that infirmitie were for none other cause but that onelie as it may be for manie mo wherof no man can easilie iudge A wretched clout to hide your infirmitie where no one example among so manie thousand as are sick in the world can be shewed So that purgatorie paines and the release of them are grounded vpon temporall afflictions whereof noe man can iudge for what cause they are no man can shew one example of the release of them by pardons ALLEN And therfore not onelie Christ him-selfe as I shall declare hereafter but Aaron also healed in the olde law the infirmities of thousands which came vpon them onelie for temporall punishment of sinnes And in the sacrament of extreme vnction the Apostle Saint Iames affirmeth that our Lord shall vpon the priestes praier lift vp the penitent or ease him of his sicknes whichhe meant onely or chiefely of that sicknes which commeth vpon the partie by Gods hand as a punishment of those sinnes which be remissible in the sacrament for such like means As Saint Chysostome sheweth also a passiing power in the ministers of God Church saying That they maie keepe mans soule from perishing and maie charge him with more easie paine euen at his passing hence besides that they maie ease his bodelie infirmitie also by their holie praiers in the act of extreame vnction in this sense speaketh he thereof FVLKE Said I that no man can shew one example of the release of bodilie afflictions Master Allen sheweth here examples of thowsands healed not onelie by Christ but by Aaron also of infirmities that came vpon them for temporal punishment of sinnes as he will declare hereafter But I replie what miracles Christ or Aaron wrought in his name they be no examples of the Popes pardons by which if he can prooue that anie man receaueth recouerie of his sicknes it is somewhat to the purpose The llke I saie of annointing with oile by which the elders of the primitiue and Apostolike Church endued with the miraculous gift of healing cured manie of their bodilie infirmities but that anie extreame vnction restoreth anie man to health or euer did I vtterlie denie and therefore we will not dispute of what sicknes they heale them Neither doth Chrysostome saie that the Ministers of Gods Church haue such a passing power that they maie ease bodilie infirmitie by their holie praiers in the act of extreame vnction neither hath his words anie sense thereof and therefore you deale fraudulentlie to tell vs of the sense when you rehearse not the wordes Plaine dealing becommeth an honest cause but when neither wordes nor sense can helpe you you must faine a sense which can not be prooued of the wordes which are these De sacerdotio lib. 3. cap. 6. preferring the ministers of the Church before bodelie parents by so much as the life to come excelleth this life for they truelie do beget vnto this life but these vnto that to come And they truelie can not so much as deliuer them from bodylie death nor driue awaie sicknes that falleth vpon them but these have often saued the soule that was stck and readie to perish causing some to haue a gentler punishment suffering some not to fall from the beginning and helping them not onely by teaching and admonishing but also by praiers For not onelie when they regenerate vs but after warde they haue power to forgiue sinnes It anie man sick among you saith he let him call for c. Where the text of Saint Iames is alledged onelie to prooue that they haue power to obteine forgiuenes of sinnes by praier and neither for healing of bodylie sicknes nor for extreme vnction The ceremonie whereof with the miracle whereunto it was annexed was ceased long before Saint Chrysostomes time ALLEN But as I said because no man can well iudge when man is afflicted onelie for temporall discipline or satisfaction or when far other purposes to vs vnknowne the Church of God that vseth high wisdome and moderation in all things medleth not directly in pardoning by her iurisdiction with any such bodily afflictions as god chargeth man with alin this life which maie be to the forsaken as a beginning of their eternall damnation as Saint Augustine saith as well as a temporall correction and therefore not effectuallie remissible in the Church But the bond of Purgatorie that I saie in the Church maie be released and is released at euerie time that man worthilie receiueth a full and plenarie remission of all penance enioyned due to be enioyned by the law of the Churches decrees I do not speake now of the deliuerie of anie person from the paines of purgatory which alreadie is actuallie there or for the Churches power in releasing of their painet after they be in the course of Gods iudgement for the same I am not so farre yet but I speak of the discharge of the bond thereof or some portion of the same now before the partie do passe hence which is a great deale more proper to the Churches power and more easie to be brought to passe then when the penitents soule is alredy in iudge ment there to which place the Churches iurisdiction as some suppose doth not extend If the simple vnderstand me not let him marke my meaning by an example The paines of hell can not neither by God nor man ordinarilie be helpen or released after man be in the same but the debt of Hell which is due for euerie mortall sinne is discharged allwaies at our repentance in so much that the priest in the sacrament of penance with the sinne euer remitteth the bonde of Hell and preuenteth Gods iudgement in the same So if
Purgatory could not at al belong to the iurisdiction of the Church nor 〈◊〉 person therein yet in the life of the party some peece of the debt thereof oral may be released afore hand whiles the partie is in the power of the Church and her discipline ad so it must needs be at euerie time that the Church pardoneth the partie of all satisfaction or anic portion there of recompensing the same by application of Christes satisfaction and his saints For the bond of Purgatory riseth as I haue said vpon some satisfaction and penance to be fulfilled or done in this life the which 〈◊〉 bue either by our paines accomplished to the satisfying of Gods righteausnes or o therwise pardoned there is no debt or bond of purgatorie at all the which is so cancelled by thy Church our Mother that it can not be required of God our father FVLKE The Popish Church 〈◊〉 more sabtillie if shee take not vpon her at all either directlie or indirectlie to heale bodilie sicknes by pardons not because men can not iudge so well for what cause they are laid vpon the diseased but because shee knoweth right well that though shee may in the darke bregg of such a matter yet hath shee in deede no such power nor authoritie neither in the fortaken or reprobate nor in any of Gods elect But the bonde of Purgatorie where of there is neither argument nor experience shee may be bolde to deale with al at her pleasure either in preuenting or releasing Wherein I maruell you make the matter so deintie seeing it is holden on 〈◊〉 side that the Pope hath authoritie by his pardon 〈◊〉 onelie to release some out of the paines of purgatorie but also to spoile all Purgatorie and to leaue it 〈◊〉 Your example of the paines of hell that can not neither by God nor man be helped or released hath an instance in your owne schoole of the Emperour Traiane eased of hell paines at the praier of Saint Gregorie if the tole be true Beside Augustinus de Ancona disputeth earnestlie that the Pope hath power in hell to mitigate or release the paines of the damned or at the lest of some of them and that the Church praieth for that ende Wherfore you agree not with your fellowes nor with the Popish Church which praieth for the deade vt liberentur de ore Leonis de profundo lacu that they be deliuered from the mouth of the Lion and from the deepe lake But be it as you saie yet your argument of the similitude of hell and Purgatorie is of no force because we know certainlie by the scriptures that there is hell but Purgatorie we finde not in the holie scriptures as Saint Augustine saith of any third place But by the scripture we finde the ende wherefore Purgatorie is imagined to be forged false blasphemous against the sacrifice of Christ his death and satisfaction which was once perfectlie performed by himselfe and not committed to the application of any other man ALLEN And this mooued alwaies the Church of God diligentlie to prouide of her tender mercie toward her louing Children that they should neuer departe out of this life in any debt of penance knowing well that the residue not satisfied here should be required at their handes afore God in the next life And therefore though many yeares of penance were prescribed to all such as did notorious crimes yet there was made euer lightlie a prouiso that at the houre of their extremitie they should haue peace and pardon and the Churches blessing in the holie sacrament and so departe free from bond of the Churches discipline as far as in her laie might be also discharged of the temporall scourge in the next life as no doubt they were if their remained no other impediment in thēselues So doth Nice Councell moste mercifullie prouide and so doth Ciprian and other fathers of the Primitiue Church that saw in their high wisedome the temporall paine to come much to hang on the parties satisfaction and the bond of the Churches enioyned penance And euen at this daie prouision is also made that no penance be giuen but vpon condition of his recouerie to any man that lieth at the extremitie of death lest he depart hence Ligatus bounde as Saint Augustine tearmeth it whereby the debt of his enioyned satisfaction might be required in Purgatory And nothing in the world prooueth more the Churches doctrine of purgatory Pardons then doth the continuall concorde and moste agreeable practize of these holie acts of binding and loosing vsed in her gouernement FVLKE The auncient Church in deede not acknowledging that shee had any authority to release any punishment to be suffered after this life determined alwaies the times of Canonicall penance with the ende of mens liues as I haue shewed before now you do acknowledge no lesse But if the Church had power after men were deade to release them of any paines shee needed not to haue beene so carefull in that point as shee was willing to comfort the penitent offenders at their depar ture as for the cancelling of all debt due for the satisfying of gods righteousnes which you did ascribe vnto the Church was the proper office of our sauiour Christ who performed that most necessarie worke to our eternal benefit once for all when he did put out the handwriting that was against vs in decrees and vtterlie abolished it nayling it to his crosse Finallie if nothing in the worlde prooueth more the Popish Churches doctrine of Purgatorie and pardons then the continuall practize of binding and loosing iustlie vsed in gouernement as you doe constantlie affirme it will easilie appeare that nothing in the world can prooue at all your blaspemous heresies of Purgatorie and pardons seeing the right vse of that power can be none other then according to the authoritie graunted by our sauiour Christ of binding and loosing but neither purgatorie nor pardon out of that authoritie in any lawful forme of argument can euer be concluded howsoeuer in loose talke or scribling ignorant men may be caried awaie with the flow of wordes where there is no pitho argument How the practize of pardons of these late hundred veares differeth from the vsage of the primitiue Church and in what sense such great numbers of yeares and daies be remitted by the Popes pardons THE 8. CHAP. ALLEN BVt here we muste note some diuersitie in giuing Pardons and preuenting Purgatorie paines betwixt the primitiue Church of olde and ours of these latter hundred yeares which did moste iustlie rise vpon the alteration of ment manners state of things For in the primitiue Church enioyned penance was so large for euery mortal crime that it might seeme verie answerable vnto the nature of the faulte And doubtlesse it may not otherwise be thought but the spirit of God did limitate satisfaction by the Canons as agreeable in all pointes to the debt of sinnes forgiuen which God
wherby he hath set the sinner out of feare of al discipline so at liberty to commit what wickednes he will without punishment Whereby it appeereth how true it is that you said that the pope was slaundered by them that said that for monie you maie obtaine of the Pope a free pardon before hand of any greeuous sinnes that you commit afterward when you now doe acknowledge that he giueth pardons not onlie de iniunct is poenitentiis but also de iniungendis of penance to be inioyned which you extend further by interpreting it of penance that should or ought to be inioyned though it be not inioyned at all So that it is all one in effect whether a man haue a pardon before hand of anie greeues sinne or whether he hath a pardon aforehand of all punishment due for the same or a pardon of course as they terme it for his monie after he hath committed the sinne ALLEN And this is the Churches meaning in giuing somanie daies and yeares as be often times expressed in pardons in titles of praiers or vse of certaine sanctified creatures made holie by Gods word and praier Of which because we see not the originall and because by vnlawfull practize of Printers or writters the grauntes of diuers Bishops for multiplication of the yeares may be ioyned together against the meaning of the giuers there may be some forged not authenticall yet we will not stand in that point because it is certaine that such be indeed graunted diuerse times by them that haue lawfull authority in the Church The vndouted sense whereof though euerie man maie easelie vnderstand by the premises yet fullie to open the case which is now so common in moste mens mouthes not well considered of manie Looke how manie daies or yeares a man maie deserue to be punished in this life if his sinnes were to the vttermoste taxed and the appointed penance of the Church fullfilled so manie yeares may the gouernours of the Church remit and forgiue by a Pardon But manie a man may and God knoweth often times doth commit so manie 〈◊〉 offences continue so long in sinne liue so wantonlie and so careleslie in all manner of wicked 〈◊〉 euen to his liues end alalmoste that being conuerted by Christer grace and so departing hence in his fauour as it often through much mercie falleth he must needes be in exceeding great debt for so long a life so euill spent And I thinke if you call him to account for all his common and dailie offences for all his daies vnthriftilie wasted for euerie of his idle wordes for euerie of his vaine thoughtes for so manie occasions of good workes omitted which he ought to haue done for often fellowship in other mens misdeedes besides his owne all this willriseto a great debt in a mens case that neuer required in all his time effectuallie to haue his debtes forgiuen him and therefore he must needes stand much bound euen for his veniall trespasses which though they deserue not of their nature damnation eternall yet beeing not remitted they binde man to transitorie punishment according to the number time and waight of them But now if you sit on the audit of the greater matters of this mans conscience where euerie of his sins deserued by the Churches limitation for correction onelie after they be remitted necre hand seuen yeares penance and some manie moe where he hath done nothing els all his euill and long time but heaped sinne vpon sinne where infinite sacrilege boldlie hath bin committed where his flesh was neuer satisfied of most vnlawfull lustes where his minde was euer full of greedie gaine where his handes or heart were allwaies imbrued with innocent blood were no parte of his minde or bodie hath beene free from what iniquitie you can name in all this corrupt case of manie a mans life where no good works that I maie vse Saint Chrysostomes wordes are found by which there maie be anie hope of release where there is abundance of all sinnes without anie satisfaction in this lamentable state of a life so euill spent how manie years penance if it were possible for the partie to liue so long were he by the Churches iudgement by the waight of his wickednesse or by Christes iustice to be chardged with all Surelie if his life were not onlie a thousand years for so long almost aid some of the olde Fathersliue but if it were ten thousand yeares he could not fatisfiefor so much temporall paine and bebt of sinnes as reason law and Gods iustice would and well might charge him withall though the great debt of euerlasting damnation by Christes grace were mercifully remitted in the Priests absolution at his confession before Threfore whether the partie liue or die he is in debt for such penance if rigour were shewed as so great sinner deserued And if he liued ten thousand yeares he were bound in his life time and in his body to accomplish as he might the due penance for his desertes and if he die straight vppon his repentance he is not lesse bound by suffering paine and punishment in the next world to fullfill the same For gods iustice leeseth no right because man leeseth his life FVLKE As priuie as you make your selfe to the Churches meaning the popish Church could haue no good meaning in graunting pardon for so many thousand years yea for so manie hundreth thousand yeares which the Church of Christ for a thousand yeares after Christes ascension neuer heard of Some part of the fault is laid vpon printers and writers which for lucre haue increased the numbers but in the end the greater numbers are coufeised for otherwise the bulles of lead as dumme as they be would crie out against you But whereas these yeares be expressed in pardons in titles of praiers or vse of certaine creatures the last of these are said to be sanctified and made holie by Gods worde and praier Why Sir All the creatures of God are sanctified in the lawfull vse of them by the worde of God and by praiers as the Apostle teacheth vs to which no such pardon is annexed Who is he then that despising the holines giuen by God to all his creatures in the ordinarie vse of them taketh vpon him to adde agreater holines to certeine creatures to applie them to another vse and ioyne not onelie holines vnto them but also remission of sinnes and of paine due for sinnes to the vse of them for which he hath no word of God to warrant him and therefore can haue no praier to helpe him surelie this can be none other then he that exalteth himselfe aboue God which can make Gods creatures more holie then God hath made them But now for this number of yeares wherof you make your Audit at your pleasure valuing mēs offences in a heauy ballāce to make your popes pardons seeme more probable saleable your account neuertheles will fall short of many thousand yeares by your former reckoning You confessed in
proofe or authoritie you doe so confidentlie affirme ALLEN And yet I talke not now of taking or deliuering anle man out of Purgatory so much sooner as so many daies release doth import when he is in it alreadie but I meane as I often saie for the simples sake of him that is yet aliue and in the Churches iurisdiction and therefore may haue by the keies of the Church a pardon of his dets either all or part to preuent the paines of Purgatorie or discharge the debt thereof before that terrible daie come when it shal be actuallie required And in this sense vndoubtedly are the great number of yeares daies to be taken which be exceeding necessarie to procure mercie in these euil times wherein we may behold the pitifulwaste of Christian workes euerie where and litle penance to be done no not of the better sort of Christan people As for the other disobedient children that euerie way laugh their mother to scorne whether she vse sextritie of discipline or lenitie in remission they haue no part neither of the Churches blessing nor of the holy workes of Saintes nor of Gods owne peace and pardon Our Lord giue them the grace of repentance that they may haue a tast either of the Churcher discipline or of her mercy and lensty FVLKE You talke and meane that men should make haste while they are aliue to take their pardons whereof perhapes you are a proctor or pettie marchant vnder the Pope not regarding so much what the Popes iurisdiction is ouer poore soules in Purgatorie as how to get monie out of liuing mens purses for pardons and dispensations to mantaine you in your traiterous popery Your complaint of litle penance done is vaine hypocritical seeing you your selfe by mantaining of pardons are occasion that none at all need to be done of them that haue mony to paie for them God open the eies of the simple if it be his will to see your treacherie and either giue you true repentance orels that which your treasons heresies hypocrisie haue long agoe deserued It is prooued as wel by sundry examples of the old law as by Christs one often fact his Apostles that inioyned or deserued punishment may be released by the gouernours of the Church in their pardons THE 9. CHAP. ALLEN Some may here maruel perchance that such power should be giuen to mortall men as to remit such great portion of penance as by iustice ought to be enioyned or such a number of yeares as are appointed for satisfaction correction of former misdeeds thereby to remooue from the partie the heauy hand of god prepared for iudgement who would not wonder much hereat if they considered that the debt of hell paines and eternity of punishment which incomparablie exceedeth manie thousand yeares might by the Priestes office and alwaies is in the due execution of the sacrament of penance fully remooued from the partie penitent And where mercy putteth away deserued damnation there may much lesse force of grace turne awaie the punishment of Purgatorie being not transitorie and equivalent onelie to the penance of a number of yeares prescribed In which case if the Church of God should haue no preheminence now after the incarnation of Christ since which time the waiet of mercie towardes mankinde must needs be much enlarged our state gouernment should be much inferiour to the regiment and to the priesthood of the old law which trulie did in al things but as a shadow and figure resemble the Maiesty of our Churches prcheminence especiallie there where mercy grace were to be shewed which came by Christ Iesus Behold then some sleppe of this most excellent power giuen to our chiefe Priestes in the persons of Moses and Aaron whoe are noted in the booke of Exodus and Numbers meruelouslie to haue procured Gods mercie and sometimes by force of sacrifice praier and singular zeale to hauereleased some great portion of the paines and punishment which God himselfe by his owne mouth and determination had laied vpon the people With what meruelous confidence of his office and pitie of the afflicted sort did one of them crie out vnto god to holde his hand and pardon the people after they had deserued se great punishment for worspiping the golden Idoll of the Calfe in the wildernes Lord saith Moses this people hath committed an horrible sinne and they haue erected golden Gods Forgiue them this sinne Lord or ells if thou wilt not dash me out of thy booke to which thou hast written This gouernour and this priest praied not after a common sort for pardon of the peoples punishment but he claimeth it wish confidence and in a manner requireth it as by his iurisdiction and office Such was the force of praier and priesthood before Christs spirituall souer aignitie was honoured in the worlde otherwise then in a figure And yet god in a manner was at that point with them then that he would pardon punish at their pleasures For when the sinne was exceeding greeuous he maketh as it were meanes to Moses that he should not stay him nor his anger from punishing of the offendors Let me alone Moses saith our Lord suffer me to be angrie FVLKE Men may iustly maruell that you professing methode doe set the Cart before the horse and frame of your building the roofe before the foundation but if they consider that this way you take is of more force to confounde a simple witte then to teach a matter plainlie they maie cease to maruell and acknowledge that the compasse of your cause whereof you speake in the beginning will abide none other order But to the matter and argument of this Chapter it hath bin answered before that in the discipline of the Church the gouernours thereof haue power vpon good consideration and triall of the offenders repentance and not otherwise at their pleasure to release enioyned time of repentance which was enioyned for none other end so much as to bring the party to repentanes and thereof to assure or satisfie the Church But as the discipline of the Church militant serueth for the onelie time of her warfare in this life so the gouernors of the Church haue no authoritie either to inioyne or to release out of the compas of this life And therefore this power of binding loosing vpon earth cannot be extended to anie purgatorie paines or rather pickpurse after this life and consequentlie it can be no shadowe to couer the filthie and blasohemous nundination and chaffering of the Popes pardons for thousands and hundreth thousands of yeares What authority the ministers of the Church haue in remitting sinnes hath beene handled sufficientlie before They are Gods messengers to declare his forgiuenes to them that trulie repent and so they are to release the bande of discipline in open offenders where the fruites of repentance doe appeare Your argument that the priesthood in the new law is of more power to purchase mercie then in the
none can be bound or absolued but of his owneiudge we thinke that the foresaid remissions doe profit them onelie to whome that they might profit their owne iudges haue spirituallie or speciallie graunted Also the glosse vpon this decretall the author whereof liued after the Later an Councell saith that it was an olde complaint and yet in his daies verie doubtfull to what purpose these remissions or pardons were profitable remissiones ad quid valeant vetus est querela adhuc tamen satis dubia and rehearseth foure seuerall opinions concerning the validitie of them Some saie they auaile onelie towarde God but not toward the church Secondlie other saie that they auaile toward the Church but not toward God Thirdlie other saie that as they are giuen they auaile both toward God and toward the Church And the fourth saith that they auaile onclie to the remission of that penance which is negligentlie omitted To which the glosse addeth his opinson agreeing fullie with none of them all nor with the later Canonists Among which opinions you haue patched vp your wauering sētence of the validity or inualidity of pardons in this Chapter This diuersity of opinions among the Papists themselues argueth that the doctrine of pardons was verie raw and not halse digested in those daies The agreeablenes thereof with the worde of God and the practize of the primitiue Church when it shall be shewed we shal thinke better of them in the meane time you must bring better proofe out of the scriptures for them then you doe for Popish Bishops blessing out of the 10. of Saint Matthew or ells we shall haue litle cause to esteeme them more then it ALLEN Truelie that holypeace which Christ gaue to his Apostles at his comming into them at his departure from them and ells as 〈◊〉 entreth vpon any holie action signified nothing ells but an agreement and peace of mans soull with God and did no doubt purge them from their dailie infirmities which we call veniall sinnes and the bonde of all paine as it may be thought due for the same that in the presense of Gods maiestie sinne might cease and the parties appeere cleane afore his face that had nospot of sinne in himselfe at all as by the saied peace yet giuen to the worthie receiuers by holie Bishopps ministerie some like effect doth surelie ensue I vse this terme of peace when I speake of pardons not because they are preciselie meant in the action of giuing peace common to Christ his Apostles but because I see the olde fathers lightlie call that peace which we now call pardoning and perchance they did allude to that which Christ willed his Disciples to bestow on euerie householde for a kind of blessing Which no doubt was some great benefite and so great that our Master signified vnto them that many should be vnworthie of it and that the fruite thereof should redound to them-selues Which caused both Bishops of olde for Saint Augustine maketh mention therof to giue their blessings and euerie man humblie to require the same on their knees whereby surelie some spirituall grace was receiued and remission either of veniall trespaces or paine due vnto for̄mer sinnes giuen Let apish Camites here mocke and mow at their Mother as they customablie doe whiles the obedient children the discreete and deuout of Gods Church thinke it an high point of wisedome onelie to consider the maruelous direction of our fathers waies in the doctrine of discipline and awe of Gods relgion FVLKE That peace which Christ gaue to his Apostles was the quietnes of conscience reconciled to god and discharged of all sinnes and the paine due to satisfie gods righteousnes for them and the same peace did Christ send his Apostles to offer preach and wish to all them that would receiue it which if they refused became vnprofitable to them But the Popish Bishops blessing which consisteth in shaking his fingers and murmering some wordes perhapps not vnderstood of the people whome they neuer teach what the peace of conscience meaneth is no better then a vilde mockery of the peace that Christ gaue and willed his Apostles to offer where they became Whereas you alledge Saint Augustine for the antiquitie of the Bishops blessing it is a friuolous matter For he maketh no other mention but that after earnest praierhad bin made for patience and constancie of faith in one that was the next daie with daunger of his life to be cut for a fistula both by the partie himselfe a Bishop and many other Godlie persons then present that they arose from praier accepta ab episcopo benedictione discessimus and hauing receiued blessing of the Bishop we departed How can the superstitious blessing of Popish Bishops be resembled to this but onelie in the name of blessing For here is no requiring of it on knees nor any opinion of remission of sinnes by it but onely a Christian salutation or farewell by praier mentioned which all Godlie Bishops and elders doe in our Church vse euen at this daie speciallie in dimission of a Godlie congregation gathered to heare the preaching to praier or participation of the sacraments or such holie purposes which all Christians do esteeme as it becommeth them without making an Idoll of the minister or trusting in the ceremonie confirming their faith in God by the praior and blessing of his seruants in his name in whome is all their hope trust and ioye reposed That the Bishops beeing the highest ministers of Gods Church and namelie the Pope as the principall of the rest may onelie lawfullie giue Pardons and in what sense the soules depatted may be releiued by the same THE 11. CHAP. ALLEN OF the necessarie disposition of them that should effectuallie receiue benefit by the pardons of the Church and of the right intent of them that should giue the same wee haue already sufficiently spoken And now perchance some may thinke it necessarie that it should be opened brieflie in whome this authoritie of releasing the paines inioyned for sinne doth principallie consist Whereof I shall with better will bestow a few wordes because we shall haue occasion thereby to open the common sense of a wholl Councel both learned and godly touching the matter of Pardons in the iudgement whereof assuredlie proceeding from the holy ghost we may with safetie take our rest Of the lawfull minister therefore of these remissions the scripture in precise tearmes prescribeth nothing though the power of binding and loosing whereupon the matter standeth is prooued properlie to be an act of the keie namelie of iurisdiction and externall regiment which agreeth not to the simple Priestes hauing no further iurisdiction but in the secret court of mans conscience Wherupon as also by the vsage of all ages and by the prescription of the lawe it is prooued that Bishops onely or such as haue their authority for the execution of their office may lawfullie giue remission of satisfactions appointed for sinnes remitted Neither were it
whose honour the good men make themselues so tender These wordes then doth Saint Paull vtter of his trauaile taken for the Churches sake Now I doe reioyce in my passions or tribulations taken for your sake and I fullfill those things that doe want of Christ passions in mine owne flesh for his bodie which is the Church Thus said Saint Paul Wherby you see that not onelie the want of one member may be supplied of the heade of the bodie but that ech member may helpe the insufficiencie of an other member Whereby for all that we may not conceiue that there is any lacke or insufficiencie on Christs parte or passion which was so full and abundant of it owne valure that by it selfe alone without the helpe of all mans merits or other creatures it was a sufficient price for the sinnes of all the worlde and moe if moe might be But the lacke that this his passion was not in effect so forcible and so fullie in all mens cases was the want of some paines and passion in his bodie the Church by which she and euerie of hers were bound to conforme them-selues vnto Christ by taking paines in their flesh and suffering together with Christ their head For so long Christes passion wanteth his due effect in vs though it were neuer so full and sufficient in it selfe as we do not conforme our selues to his paine tribulation taken for vs. Therfore though Christ in his owne person suffer now no more yet he doth suffer and dailie shall suffer till the worlds end in diuers members of his holie bodie as the heade saith Saint Augustine suffereth when the finger aketh and as Christ him selfe charged Saint Paul that he persecuted him when he onelie molested his members And so long as the Church militant trauailesh here in earth so long hath Christ our Maister somewhat to suffer to make his passion effectuall in such as shall be saued and in that sense some peece of his passion in euerie of the faithfulls bodies must be supplied By all which holie paines of the head himselfe principallia and of the holie members of his bodie who wrought not onelie for themselues but expreslie meant to benefit other by their workes as the Apostle confesseth of himselfe we neede not to doubt but the lacke of many a poore member of this blessed incorporation is dulie supplied and the want of worke satisfactorie in some recompensed by the abundance of paines and penance of others For this is the blessed cause of such as be in the Church of God in the fellowshippe of the faithfull in the knot of those members whereof our sauiour is the head that is to saie in the holie communion of Saints in which as some do lack so other some by Christs gift do abound and are able to procure mercie for the needie and to satisfie God for their poore breethrens sinnes And yet all this entercourse of benefits and mutuall helpes passeth not from the head to the members nor from one member of the bodie to another but by the ordinarie meanes of Christes appointment as by sacraments sacrifice and sundrie waies of his seruice and that not without the ministerie of men in whome he hath out the word of his reconciliation to whome he hath committed his keies to keepe his sheepe to feed his mysteries to dispose and to whome finallie he hath giuen full power both to binde and loose FVLKE Of all the auncient doctors and learned of the Church whose writinges haue come to our hands it is great maruell no one could see the increase of the Churches treasure in this texte of Saint Paull But seing they saw not all thinges let vs consider in what expresse wordes Saint Paul vttereth your meaning Where is mention of the treasure of the Church in this texte where is mention of the merit of Saintes where is mention of the remaines of Saints satisfaction ouer and aboue their owne necessitie where is mention of the wante of satisfying Gods iustice for temporall paines If there be neuer a worde of all these thinges in what expresse wordes doth Saint Paul vtter your meaning First he reioyceth in his afflictions which he suffered for their sake because they tended to the confirmation of their faith and example of Constancie Secondlie he sulfilleth those thinges that want or remaine of Christs passion in his owne bodie this argueth no insufficiencie of Christes passion you confesse for his parte but the wante of some paines in his bodie the Church so farre wee agree with you for Christ was to suffer in his members the saints and they are by suffering to be made conformable vnto him that they might reigne with him but that these sifferinges were satisfactions vnto Gods righteousnes for temporall paine to make the passion of Christ effectuall to themselues or vnto other Saint Paull saith not in expresse wordes neither shall you euer be able to prooue by a true syllogisme out of this place or anie text in the scripture that he meaneth But Saint Paull saieth he suffereth for Christes bodie which is his Church namelie to confirme the faith of the Church as all the olde Fathers doe expound it and as he doth a best expound himselfe 2. Cor. 1. 6. but to satisfic for paine not satisfied by Christes death he neuer saith ne meaneth In tribulationibus saith S. Ambrose vpon this text quas patiebatur exultare se satetur quia profectum 〈◊〉 videt in side credentium Saint Paull acknowledgeth that he reioiceth in the affictions which he suffered because he seeth his profit in the faith of the beleeuers And the words of S. Paul are plaine when he saith that he suffereth for the Church according to that dispensation which was committed vnto him which was to edifie the Church in the faith not to redeeme the Church by his sufferings S. Augustine speaking of the suffering of martyrs and the effecte of them and comparing them with the passion of Christ thus writeth Ille nobis non 〈◊〉 nos saluos saceret nos sine illo nihil possumus facere ille se nobis palmitibus praebuit vitem nos habere preter illum non possumus vitam postremo etst fratres pro fratrib moriantur tamen in fraternoruam peccatorum remissionem nullius sanguis martyris funditur quod fecit ille pro nobis neque in hoc quid imitaremur sed quid gratularemur He had no neede of vs that he might saue vs we without him can do nothing He hath giuen himselfe to be a vine to vs the branches we be side him can haue no life Finallie although breethren do die for their breethren yet the bloood of no martir is shed for the remission of his brcethrens sinnes which he did for vs neither hath bestowed vpon vs herein anie thing that we should follow but that we might reioycein In these wordes Augustine denyeth that Christes passion wanted the paines aud pas sions of martirs to be fullie