that fal out much lesse authors of the same for their silence or not reuealing as in this case of the Iesuits you labour to inferre 15. But in truth Sir it seemeth that you attended more to the art of Oratory then to the coherence of Truth in that your speach for that presentlie after your former vvordes you added these for the beginning of your declamatioÌ„ In this discourse I will speake saie you of no other circumstances but of treason and of no other treasons but the Iesuits treaâ—ons of no other Iesuits treasons but such as shal parâ—iculerly concerne this prisoner VVherin notvvithâ—taÌ„ding verie soone after contradicting your self you brought in a long discourse of the antiquity â—nd inuisibilitie of your Church as also of Equiâ—ocation and manie other things vvhich are no â—ircumstances of treason You handled also of â—he Northerne Earles Excommunication of the Queeene and diuers other such things as hapâ—ened before the Iesuits came into England and â—onsequentlie could be no Iesuits treasons And vvhen you come to treat of the prisoner himâ—elf and to proue him a traitor you begin vvith â— Statute set forth in the 23. yeare of the late Queenes raigne vvhich made all Iesuits and other Pristes traitors that came into England or remained in the same and consequentlie concerned not the prisoner in such speciall maÌ„ner as you vvould seeme to promise or if it did yet manie other things you bring in and handle as that of Lopus the Ievv VVilliams York Squier Colen partlie Protestants and partliâ— Catholickes vvho vvhatsoeuer their causes vvere vvherof somvvhat shal be spoken after yet touched they nothing at all that prisoner vvho yet neuer dealt vvith them nor euer vvas accused concerning them VVherevpon is inferred that no one of your three-fold members before mentioned vvas performed by you to vvit that you would speake of no other circumstances but of treason and of no other treasons but of Iesuits treasons of no other Iesuits treasons but such as should particulerly concerne the prisoner at the barre 16. But this defect I suppose that all your auditorie did not obserue by reason of the multitude of other tumultuary matters dravvne in by you against the said prisoner but yet your Rhetoricke in amplifying one point about the first lavv alleadged against the comming in of Priests and Iesuitts vvas so markeable as no man I thinke vvas so dull as did not obserue it and beare it avvay To vvit that vvhereas the said lavv did forbid all Priests vnder paine of death and treason not to come into England or execute anie parte of their priestlie function vvithin the Realme as to preach teach offer sacrifice heare Confessions absolue from sinnes reconcile to God and to the vnion of his Catholicke Church dissuade from sects and heresies and other like offices you in commendation of that lavv protested to proue it to be the most myldest law the sweetest law the law most full of mercy and pitty that euer was enacted by any Prince so iniuriously prouoked And you added in the heat of your eloquence that if you proued â—ot this then let the vvorld saie That Garnet is an honest man VVhich vvas a vvarraÌ„t to al the hearers up hold him for such for so much as no man vvas there so simple but savv it impossible for you to â—roue that assertion and consequentlie that in all their hearings you canonized his honesty â—â— For hovv did you go about to proue M. Attorâ—â—y that this lavv was so myld so ful of pitty lenity â—or sooth for that you saie the meaning was by keeâ—ing Priests of and expelling those that were within to â—â—are their bloud though if they retyred not to spill it â—magine that then if in Queene Maryes dayes for â—xample such a lavv had byn made against Proteâ—tant-Ministers that came from Geneua and other â—laces of Germany vvould you M. Attorney haue â—eemed that lavv a gentle law a sweet myld law a â—aw ful of mercy pitty clemeÌ„cy I presume you dare â—ot saie it But let vs vse an other example of much â—ore moment If in the Apostles time such a lavv â—ad byn made by anie King or Emperour of conâ—rarie religion to them that if anie of the said Apostles or Priests for so they vvere should enter â—nto their dominions to preach a contrarie doâ—trine to the religion there receaued and establisâ—ed and to exercise anie of their Apostolicall or Priestlie functions it should be treason and paine of death could this be called a myld law a sweet lavv a lavv ful of pitty compassion a lavv made for not spilling their bloud or vvould or could the Apostles or their follovvers haue obeyed this lavv or did they obey the Gouernours of the Ievves othervvise their lavvfull Superiours vvhen they coÌ„manded them to preach no more in the name of Christ or to disperse Christian doctrine vvhich they called seditious or to reconcile anie to Christian religion vvhich they held for treason or did they flie though Princes Emperours aftervvardes by publicke Edicts did commaund them out of their dominions or is there not another bloud to be respected called by the Prophet the bloud of the soule vvhereof the Pastor shall be guiltie if he flie for feare or forsake his flocke in time of daunger and persecution is not all this so or can it be denyed or haue not English Priests the same obligation of conscience to help their CouÌ„trey and countrymen in spirituall necessities as had the Apostles and Apostolicke men to strangers for vvhose helpe yet they vvere content to offer their liues and incurre anie daunger vvhatsoeuer VVherefore M. Attorney to speake a truth if you deale vvith men of vnderstanding it is but fond and if of Christian courage it is but trifling eloquence all that in this point you haue vsed about the myldnes svveetnes mercy and compassion of this cruell and bloudy lavv of Queene Elizabeth Children maie be delighted and deâ—uded vvith such bables but vvise-men doe laugh at them 18. Concerning the other heads of doctrine vvhich pleased you to handle in this arraignemeÌ„t â—t the barre vvith no small ostentation of vvorâ—es as being in your ovvne Center namelie Of the Antiquity of your Church Equiuocation and some â—ther such points as they vvere not much ad rem in that assemblie busines so could your friends â—aue vvished that either you had omitted them alâ—ogeather or handled them more substantiallie or as for Equiuocation or mentall reseruation of a â—â—ne sense in a doubtful speach it seemeth plainlie â—â—at you vnderstaÌ„d not the QuestioÌ„ nor the meaâ—ing vvhich both ancient and moderne learned â—en haue in holding that true and necessarie â—octrine no marueile for tâ—at it hath not byn I â—â—inke your educatioÌ„ to be troubled much vvith scrupulositie of vvordes to vvit vvhat sense maie â—e held therin vvithout sinne vvhat not the â—â—amen of vvhich matters belong to more tender â— timerous coÌ„sciences then Kings
Angells other Saints in heaueÌ„ for that they doe not know all things which may bee knowne this being proper to God alone Albeit they know so much as is sufficient to their euerlasting beatitude So as this kind of IgnoraÌ„ce may stand vvith blessednes in heauen And vpon earth also the Scripture signifieth that it is lawfull and good for men to be ignorant in many things not to know or desire to know more then is needfull which leadeth to curiosity and this of Ignorantia negatiua 11. Priuatiua ignorantia is that which depriueth a man of some knowleg which he may and ought to haue And vnto this our Deuines doe shew that Error doth ad an approbation of that which is false either in iudgment or will And vnto Error heresie doth ad yet further pertinacity and obstinacie of will especially And these are the fower degrees of Ignorance in this sense to witt Negatiue Priuatiue Erroneous and Hereticall But now this priuatiue Ignorance is subdiuided againe into diuers other members and braunches As for example into Voluntary and Vnuoluntary Ignorance and Vnuoluntary hath two degrees The one that is altogeather vnuoluntary so as by noe diligence of ours it could be auoyded and therfore by Deuines is called Inuincible and this is so far of from being a synne or causing synne as it doth excuse any synne whatsoeuer For if a man should kill his owne father not knowing him or what he doth at all nor any way concurringe to the said Ignorance he were to be excused I doubt not euen by M. Attorneys law 12. The other sort of vnuoluntary Ignorance called Vincible is that which albeit it proceedeth not of our owne will directly yet with some kinde of diligence it might haue bene auoided and preuented and according to this it may be culpable or vnculpable Voluntary Ignorance also may be either effectâ—ta that is willingly procured either in it self or in her cause or by some grosse negligence not auoided and this either antecedenter consequenter concomitanter in facto vel in iure and other considerations and circumstances which Catholike Deuines doe prescribe for discerning or iudging of mens synnes and offences according to knowledg and a good conscience And in this are they occupied whilest Protestants stand crying out and exclaiming against Ignorance in generall and that for the most part so ignorantly as in nothinge more they shew their ignorance then by such manner of impugning Ignorance I will not apply this to M. Attorney whome I take in his art to be a man of much science yet is his speach in this place considerable for his degree Error saith hee doth in her proceeding hee should haue said his according to the gender so infinitely multiplie her self produceth such monstrous and strange chimeraes floateth in such and so many incertainties as all such into whom she infuseth any of her poisoned breath she dangerously infects or intoxicates A strange and sharpe inuectiue for all men more or lesse doe erre if wee beleeue either Gods word or our owne experience Some ignorance also is inauoidable some excusable some laudable some tollerable some culpable and some inculpable as before it is shewed and being but a priuation or negation how commeth she to haue such poison and soe contagious a breath as here she is accused to haue without any distinction at all seeing that in some degree she is also in Angells as hath bene sayd and may be in good and most learned men vpon earth as holy Iob testified of himself Si simplex fuero saith he hoc ipsum ignorabit anima mea If I be simple or innocent in the sight of God yet shall my soule be ignorante of this to wit in this life To which purpose the holy Ghost saith in another place Nescit homo vtrum amore an odio dignus fit A man knoweth not in this life wheather he be worthy of loue or hatred before God And againe Nescit homo suum finem A man knoweth not his end And none of these ignorances are reprehended Nay S. Paul doth commend and counsell ignoraÌ„ce to the Romanes in many things writing thus I say vnto yow all by the grace of Christ which is giuen vnto mee that yow goe aboute to know noe more theÌ„ you ought to know but that your knowledg be to sobriety And this is Catholike sober doctrine of science ignorance whilest sectaries doe intemperatly bragg of knowledg and obiect ignorance to others 13. And surely I cannot but marueile with what shew of reason this Knight Attorney here now as also another knight Puritan not long agoe in his writinge should obiect so confidently Ignorance to Romane Catholiks of these our dayes For if we cast our eyes vpoÌ„ any kinde of learning whatsoeuer that may be handled by learned men and skill showed therin whether it be diuinity or other science the Catholiks are ten for one in number in all preeminence before any one sect of our dayes or all put togeather Looke ouer all sciences writers therof at this day as of Eloquence skill of toungs Philosophy Mathematicke histories and the like number the authors consider their substance weigh their estimation and see whether it be not so or noe euen in the opinion of all protestant students 14. And as for Theologie which is the principall subiect wheras they handle only one or two partes of positiue Diuinity to witt controuersies and the text of Scripture wee handle not only the same much more abundantly as appeareth by our writers both of controuersies and commentaryes but doe handle two other partes also of much more importance which is scholasticall appertaining to knowledg morall for direction of mens consciences in practise both which are wholy wanting in Protestant schooles 15. And this being soe as by the eye is euidently verified to him that will look vpon it how inept and ridiculous is it that euery Sectary beginninge to write against vs shall presently take his exordium from obiecting Ignorance wheras euery meane learned Catholike man by verdict of common sense and reason if no other proofs were must needs be presumed to haue more knowledg then a hundered sectaryes togeather For that hee following in his knowledg and learninge touching all points of his faith the knowledg learninge wisdome and authority of the vniuersall Catholike Church consistinge of infinite wise and learned men and directed by the highest wisdome of God himself he maketh all their wisdome his wisdome their knowledg his knowledg and their learning his learning in this point of his saluation Wheras the sectary following his owne sense and braine ech one in his fancie is alone as you see and hath no true knowledge learning or wisdome at all though he bragg neuer so much of speciall knowledge and illumination as before you haue heard out of Tertullian and Irenaeus to haue been their auncient spirit and will be to the worlds end And
spirituall gouernment to women but placeth it where it ought to bee in S. Peter his Successors aboue all others I shall alleadge the place somewhat more at large which containeth a graue ponderation of those words of our Sauiour vnto S. Peter in S. Iohns ghospell Petre amas me c. Peter dost thou loue mee more then the rest and he answearing that he did Christ replied if thou loue mee feed my sheep Wherof S. Chrysostome doth inferre that Christ in these words did first of al specially commit the supreme charge of his said sheep to S. Peter and his Successors Pecudâ—â— curam saith he quas sanguine suo acquisierat tum Petro tum Petri Successoribus committebat He committed to Peter and to Peters Successours the care of his sheep which he had purchased with his owne bloud And againe Petrum Christus authoritate hac praeditum esse voluit reliquos item Apostolos longe praecellere Christ would haue Peter to bee indued with this supreme authority ouer his sheep and therein far to excell all the rest of the Apostles c. 37. Secondlie S. Chrysostome maketh a deep ponderation vpon these words of our Sauiour of the singular loue which he would haue Pastors to beare vnto his sheep and which hee bare himself giuing his bloud for them and what hee exacted at this high Pastors hands for gouerning and feeding of them in this his demaund or interrogation concerning his loue Atque illi quidem licebat saith he verbis huiusmodi Petrum affari Si me amas Petre Ieiuniae exerce super nudam humum dormi c. Our sauiour Christ might haue spoken to Peter in this sorte vpon his answeare of loue if thou loue me Peter exercise fasting sleep on the bare ground watch continuallie releiue them that bee oppressed shew thy self a Father to orphans and bee vnto widdowes insteed of their husbands But now Christ pretermitting all these other good works what saith hee vnto him Pasce oues meas c. Feed and gouerne my sheep for that all the rest of those good works before meÌ„tioned may bee perfourmed by many subiects not only men but also women At cum de ecclesiae Praefectura de credenda huic vel illi tam multarum animarum cura agitur vniuersa quidem mulieris natura functionis istius moli ac magnitudini caedat oportet itemque bona virorum pars But when the Question is of any gouernmeÌ„t ouer the Church or about committing to this or that person the charge of so many soules then must all women kind yeeld and giue place to the weight and greatnes of this function and so must also a good parte of men to witt all such as are of the lay sorte and haue not Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction laid vpon them by the ordinarie means before mentioned of ordination succession in the Church of God descending originally from this first fountaine of all ecclesiasticall power vpon earth committed by the sonne of God to S. Peter and his Successours to endure to the worlds end 38. And thus haue wee cleerlie the sentence beleife iudgement of S. Chrysostome concerning spirituall authority for gouerning our soules that it was giuen eminently to S. Peter and his Successors aboue the rest of the Apostles but so as only men and those not all but Priests alone and Cleargie-men doe or may succeed therein and that all kinde of women are excluded in respect of their sex from any superiority or prefecture ouer the Church And what-soeuer S. Chrysostome held preached or left written in this behalfe be being so great a Doctor and piller of Christs Church in his dayes the thing it self neuer contradicted or reprehended by any other may assuredly be held for the common doctrine iudgement sense faith and beleife of the vniuersall Catholike Church in that age and consequently also both of the former and following ages vntill our time And how much this consideration ought to preuaile with a prudent man that followeth not passion but reason and hath care of his owne soule is easy to see And so much of this matter 39. And now further I remember that I promised to proue my negatiue also by the ancient common municipall lawes of England of which though I might say as before I said of the Fathers and Doctors of former tymes that they ordayned nothing expresly of this particular case for that they neuer imagined that any such matter would fall out yet doe they determine that expresly which includeth this which is that they confirme euery-where the libertyes preheminencyes and prerogatiues of of the Church and Church-men of England which doe principally consist in this that only Ecclesiasticall men haue Power and Iurisdiction in Ecclesiasticall affayres and that no lay person and much lesse a woman can meddle therin and that there be two distinct swords in a Christian Common-wealth the one temporall in the hands of the Prince the other Ecclesiasticall in the hands of the Bishop and that the Ecclesiasticall is greater and more soueraigne then the temporall that this later must help be subordinate to the former All which yow shall see decreed as well in the lawes of K. Edgar and K. Edward before the Conquest as also of the Conquerour himself which after in due places we shal set downe 40. And to all this now may we ad certaine manifest reasons which besides the foundations before laid or rather out of them all our Deuines doe alleadge whie a woman may not be head of the Church or haue spirituall Iurisdiction in Ecclesiasticall affayres Wherof the first is that Christ our Sauiour being a Priest according to the order of Melchisedech and refusing to be a temporall King as out of the ghospell is euident he left in his place Priests to gouerne his Church as before hath bene declared both out of Scriptures and ancient Fathers but a woman cannot be a Priest as both we and Caluinists doe hold though Luther taught otherwise for a tyme as hath bene said and is refuted at lardge by K. Henry the 8. Q. Elizabeths Father in his booke against him and therefore the said Q. Elizabeth could not hold the place of Christ in spirituall Iurisdiction in the Church of England 41. A second reason is founded vpon the maxime before alleadged by M. Attorney Cui licet quod maius est licet quod minus He that can doe the greater can doe the lesse But it is more to be able to giue authority to others to exercise spirituall functions and Iurisdiction than to doe the same in his owne person ergo if Q. Elizabeth could giue authority to Bishops and Pastors to make Ministers administer the Sacraments preach and teach with the like which belongeth to the head of the Church than could she doe them also her self Which conclusion notwithstanding all English Protestants commonly doe deny yet is the Consequence euident and the Minor proposition is
it must needs bee that he was gouernour vnder the Pope to whome he professeth as you haue heard obedience and subiection 16. But what proofe think you hath M. Attorney out of this King to shew that he exercised spirituall iurisdiction by vertue of his temporall crowne You shall heare it all as it lyeth in his booke for the whole narration is but of 3. or 4. lines taken out of K. Edward his lawes The words are these in Latin Rex autem qui vicarius summi regis est ad hoc constitutus est vt regnum populum Domini super omnia Sanctam Ecclesiam regat defendat ab iniuriosis malefices autem destruat Which M. Attorney Englisheth thus The King who is the vicar of the highest King is ordeined to this end that he should rule and gouerne the Kingdome people of the land and aboue all things the holy Church that he defend the same from wrong-doers and destroy and roote out workers of mischeif Which words supposing them to be truly alleadged as they lye haue a plaine and easy interpretation which is that the King as Gods minister for so S. Paul called also the hea-Magistrate must gouerne the Church and Cleargie of his land in temporal matters for that they are members also of the Common-wealth as before we shewed In which respect they are subiect to the sayd temporall Magistrate and in that sense to be gouerned by him though not in spirituall things 17. And if M. Attorney will inferre that because the King is cal-called Gods Vicar he hath spirituall Iurisdiction then may he as well inferre that the heathen Magistrate had spirituall Iurisdiction ouer Christians for that S. Paul calleth him the minister of God which is as much in effect as Vicar for that the minister supplieth the maisters place And thus you see that albeit we admit these words as heere they ly alleadged by M. Attorney noe aduantage can be rightly inferred against vs by them But I am forced to suspect some little fraud or shuffling to be vsed in the citation of this peece of law and therfore I intreate the Iudicious Reader who is learned and hath the commodity to see the Originals that he will examine both this and the former instance of K. Kenulfus in the authors whence they are taken for I haue them not by mee 18. The reasons of suspicion are first for that I see M. Attorney his translation in these few lines not to be very exact as it will appeare to him that examineth the same and secondly for that I find this clause of S. Edwards law differently alleaged heare by M. Attorney from that which is cited by Roger Houeden in the life of K. Henry the second as also from another allegation therof by Iohn Fox in his Acts and Monuments by all which may be gathered that the verbe regat is wrongly placed in M. Attorneys allegation which being amended and the said verbe placed before in his dew place the sense is perfect to witt vt Rex regnum terrenum populum Domini regat sanctam eius veneretur ecclesiam ab iniuriosis defendat c. that the King rule his earthly Kingdome and the people of God and reuerence and defend the holy Church Thus I say ought the words to stand to make good and congruons sense and not as they are transposed both by M. Attorney and Iohn Fox to make a blind sense who yet agree not in their allegations therof as in the places cited you may see 19. And this our assertion concerning the true sense meaning of the former clause is confirmed yet further by the words of K. Edward immediatly following in the same law omitted heere by M. Attorney but sett downe by Fox which are these Quod nisi secerit nomen regis in eo non constabit verum Papa Ioanne testante nomen Regis perdet If a King doe not perfourme the points before mentioned of gouerninge his people and defending the Church the name of a King agreeth not to him but he must leese that name as testifieth Pope Iohn So he And the same K. Edward in the end of this speach doth cite the authority of the said Pope Iohn againe saying that the wrote to Pipinus and his sonne Charles beâ—ore they came to be Kings of France that no man was worthy to be called a King except he did vigilantly defend and gouerne the Church and people of God So as now this gouernment of the Church which M. Attorney hitherto hath vrged so much against the Popes authority must be vnderstood according to the meaning and sense only of Pope Iohn who I suppose notwithstanding will not meane that temporall Princes shall be heads of the Church and to haue supreme spirituall Iurisdiction in causes Ecclesiasticall deriued from their Crownes as M. Attorneys meaning is And so you see vnto what good issue he hath brought this argument out of S. Edwards lawes which is that Kings haue so much gouernmeÌ„t ouer the Church as Pope Iohn allowed them and no more 20. And finally let vs heare the words of Pope Nicolas the second to this verie K. Edward concernining the gouernment he had ouer the Church for thus he writeth to him Vobis verò posteris vestris Regibus committimus aduocationem eiusdem loci omnium totius Angliae Ecclesiarum vt vite nostrae cum Consilio Episcoporum Abbalum constituatis vbique quae iusta sunt c. We doe coÌ„mitte vnto you and to the Kings of England your Successours the aduocation and protection of the same place or monastery of VVestminster and of all the Churches throughout England to the end that in our name and authoritie you may by the counsell of your Bishops and Abbots appoint euery-where those thinges that are iust c. By which words is easie to see what gouernment and iurisdiction K. Edward had ouer the Church of England to witt by commission of the Pope noe otherwise By which coÌ„mission also diuers other Catholike Princes haue had in sundrie cases coÌ„mitted vnto them haue at this day spirituall Iurisdiction as namely the Kings of Sicily doe pretend to haue had to haue supreme spirituall authority in that Kingdome as legati à latere by concession of Pope Vrbanus the 2. graunted vnto Roger the Norman Earle of Sicily aboue fiue hundered years past to witt from the yeare of Christ 1097. And yet will none of those that defend this spirituall monarchy at this day for by that name it is called say that it descendeth by right of their Crownes but by concession and delegation of Popes And so much of this matter HOW THE ATTORNEY NOT BEING ABLE TO PROVE HIS AFFIRMATIVE PROPOSITION Of English Kings Iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall before the Conquest VVe doe ex abundanti proue the negatiue by ten seuerall sortes of most euident demonstrations that there was no such thing in that
Attorneyes coÌ„â—onlie are presumed to haue vvho must speake â—o the purpose hovvsoeuer it be to the truth And â—â— it vvell appeared in that arraignment vvherof â—e novv treat but intend to proceed no further â—â—erein for that the prisoner himself ansvvered this point sufficientlie at the barre as also to the Lordes before in the tovver and a more large discourse maie be made therof hereafter if neede shall require 19. As for your other article about the Antiquity and continuance of your Church a man maie easily see that you sought an occasion to bring it in by making an obiection on the behalfe of Iesuitts against the same and thereby to shevv your skill in ansvvering They hold their religion saie you to be the old Religion where ours is the new confyned to England where on the contrary side their Religion is vniuersall and embraced in the greatest part of this Christian worlde And thus for the maintenance of their rotten Religion doe they seeke to disgrace and blemish our Ghospell But good syr if your ghospell be that of the foure Euangelistes novv receaued vve pretend that it is as much our ghospell as yours and more also for that you receaued it from vs and vpon our Churches credit and for that you call rotten Religion if euer it vvere Religion then neuer can it rott except you put no difference betvvene apples and religion But let vs heare hovv you vvill ansvvere this obiection in your ovvne vvordes as they came set dovvne vnto me from your ovvne mouth 20. But to this saie you I will answere that if our Ghospell be as ancient as Luther it is more ancient then the Iesuitts are though not I trovv then Iesuitts religion albeit it be not conteyned in these narrow limitts of place nor bands of time which they feignedly imagine hauing byn euer since the time of Christ and his Apostles For we doe not deny but that Rome was the mother-Church and had thirty two virginall martyrs of her Popes a-row so continued til in succeeding ages it brought in a masse of errors and idle ceremonyes But you will aske perhaps where our Church lurked before Luthers coming for some hundreds of yeares But I say it makes no great matter where it was so that I â—m certaine it was for as a wedge of gold if it be dissolâ—ed and mixed with a masse of brasse tinne and other metalls doth not loose his nature but remaineth gold still although we cannot determine in what part of the masse it is conteined but the touch-stone will fynde it out so though our Church hath euer byn since Christes time in the vvorld yet being mixed and couered vvith innouaâ—ons and errours vve cannot tell in vvhat part it vvas And I dare say that it is novv more extended then theirs â— for vve haue all England all Scotland all Germany al Denmarke a great part of France al Poland some part of Italie These are your vvordes if the Relators haue byn exact in setting them dovvne as they saie they haue byn And then is there â—o maruaile though you impugne so much the doctrine of scrupulous reseruation of true sense in ambiguous speeches vvhereas so manifestlie you ouer-lash in all those periods vvhich heere you haue layed before vs. 21. But to the matter it self about the Antiquity Continuance Succession Visibility and Assurance of the Church vvhereas you graunt that the Roman Church vvas the true mother-Church from the beginning and had two and thirty virginall martyrs for so you call them for her Popes one after the other vvithout interposition of anie one Bishop that vvas not martyr for more then the space of three hundred yeares you graunt vs so much in this assertion if it be vvel considered as it vvill be hard for you to take it from vs againe aftervvard in your sequent negation vvhich I shal shevv you brieflie by tvvo conuincing Arguments the one Theologicall the other Morall 22. The first is that if the Church of Rome vvas the true mother-Church of Christ and Christian religion for so great a space as you assigne then no doubt vvere all the predictions and promises of Prophets for the greatnes eminency honour certeyntie florishing perpetuitie of the said Christian Church fulfilled in her Christes peculier promises in like manner that he would be vvith her to the end of the vvorld that the holy ghost should lead her into all truth that hell-gates vvhich properlie signify errours and heresies should neuer preuaile against her that she should be the piller and foundation of truth all men bound to obey and beleeue her vvas â—eant also performed in this Roman-Church for three hundred yeares and more and promised â—â— be performed to the end of the vvorld vvherof â—â—sueth that either God is not able to performe what he promiseth for of his vvill there can be no doubt seing he hath promised or else it cannot vvithout impiety be conceaued and much â—â—se beleeued that this Roman-mother-Church so â—â—anted in the beginning by Christ and his Apoâ—â—es bloud and so vvatered for three hundred yeares togeather by the bloud of all her Bishops â—â— spread ouer the vvorld as S. Paul of his ovvne time testifyeth that her faith religion vvas and aftervvard all Ecclesiasticall histories vvithin the time prescribed after doe declare that all other Churches commonly at least-vvise of the vvest-world vvere her daughters by foundation our â—reat-Britany among the rest it is impossible I say to imagine vvith piety hovv this Queene of the vvorld hovv this florishing Church hovv this golden vvedge to vse your ovvne similitude should so be dissolued mingled vvith brasse tinne copper other such contemptible mettalls vvhich you cal Errours innouations as that her Religion should become rotten according to your phrase her self in steed of being the true kingdome inheritaÌ„ce spouse of Christ become his enemy his aduersary an aduovvtresse and the verie povver of Sathan himself against him as you M. Attorney doe make her 23 Hovv I praie you can this be thought by vvhat reason or probability maie it be imagined vvhen hovv by vvhat meanes might this metamorphosis be made The very next age after the forsaid Martyr-Popesliued S. Augustine vvho reciting the said Popes and their Successors vnto his daieâ— called them all holy vvithout distinction and by their lineal succession in the said Church of Rome did persuade himself to haue demonstrated the truth of all Catholicke Religion as vvell in Africa vvhere he vvas as throughout the vvhole vvorld against all heretickes 24. And after him againe liued in the same Sea as Bishops thereof S. Leo and S. Gregory both of them surnamed Great in respect of their great sanctitie great learning and famous acts and vvith them and after them concurred and suceeeded in other Christian Churches of the vvorld as Fathers and Doctors S. Maximus S. Prosper Vincentius Lyrinensis S. Gregory of Tovvers S. Fulgentius S.
Queenes priuie Counsell and vvhether they vvere true or false yet touched they not Fa Garnet vvho neuer had acquaintance or treaty vvith them 36. And vvhereas you saie that he came into England with purpose to prepare the way against the great compounded nauy that followed in the yeare 1588. It is euident that his comming into England vvas tvvo yeares and a halfe at the least before the saied time vvhen there vvas neither notice nor speach nor perhapps so much as a thought of that nauie to come and vvhen aftervvard it appeared on our seas it had not so much as one English Priest or Iesuit in all that multitude of men vvhich is like it vvould haue had if M. Henry Garnet and M. Robert South-well that came in togeather had byn sent to prepare the vvaie for the same Your combinations also of bookes and attemptes the one allwaies as you saie accompanying the other though you esteemed it perhaps a vvittie fine deuise and probable to the vnlearned hearers that cannot distinguish of times or things yet others that looked into the matter more iudiciouslie and found neither coherence of time or subiect betvveene the booke by you named and the attempts pretended laughed in their sleeues remembring the saying of the Poet Non sat commodè diuisa sunt temporibus tibi Daue haec I vvill reapeat your vvordes of one onlie comparison and thereof let the rest be iudged Then cometh forth Squiar saie you with his plot of treason but this not alone neither but was accompanyed with another pernicious booke written by Dolman vvhich vvordes importe that Dolmans booke did accompanie Squiars treason but he that shall examine the order of Chronologie shal fynde in this matter that Dolmans booke vvas in print foure yeares at least before Squiars treason if he committed treason vvas euer heard of nor hath the argument of the booke anie more affinitie at all vvith Squiars fact then hath a fox vvith a figg tree but onlie that your floating Chimeraes intoxicating to vse your ovvne vvordes your hearers braynes doe make you seeme to speake oftentimes mysticallie vvhen in deede you speake miserablie 37. Yovv remember I thinke hovv the aforesaid gentleman in his booke for others doe not forget it gaue you a friendlie reprehension by the vvordes of the famous Orator Catulus or rather of Cicero in his name for a ridiculous fact of yours in vveeping and shedding manie teares in follovving the fiction of Squiars conspiracie at the barre therebie to vvynne credit and shevv your self admirable at that time to the Earle of Essex and others in authoritie but novv I am to expostulate vvith you vpon this occasion for another no lesse patheticall excesse vttered in pleading against M. Garnet vvherein not so much your teares did run as your haires did stand and stare and your eares glovv to heare blasphemie vttered by him in a certaine letter of his intercepted VVherein saie you was conteyned one of the most horrible blasphemyes that euer I heard proceed from any Atheist and maketh my haire to stand on end to thinke of it So you saie 38. And vvhat vvas this horrible blasphemie good Syr that put your tender and religious hart in such a pittifull plight and horror It follovveth that he had written with the iuyce of a lemmō to his friendes abroad out of the tower that he had byn often examined but nothing was produced against him but yet necesse est vt vnus homo moriatur pro populo So you alleadged the text and added presentlie See how he assumeth most blasphemously to himself the wordes that were spoken of Christ our Sauiour but I hope ere he dy he will repent him of this blasphemy 39. But good Syr did you looke vpon the place of S. Iohns gospell before you recited the same and plaied this pageant in so solemne an essemblie Yf you did then vvill you fynd that these vvordes vvere spoken by an euill man vnto an euill sense in his ovvne meaning to vvit by Caiphas that persuaded first in a Councell gathered vpon the resuscitation of Lazarus to put Christ to death thereby to content the Romanes vvho had the vvhole Ievvish nation in iealosie of their loyaltie tovvardes the Emperour and that novv by putting one to death that vvas accused though falslie to denie tribute to be paied to Cesar they should cleere their credit vvith the said Emperour and by his onlie death preuent the destruction of the said Ievvish people by the Romane armies and therefore he said Expedit nobis vt vnus homo moriatur pro populo non totagens pereat It is expedient for vs that one man dy for the people to the end the vvhole nation be not destroied And therefore he saieth not necesse est as you cite the vvordes but expedit to shevv his politicall drift therein 40. And this being Caiphas his crastie and vvicked counsaile and his vvordes in his sense bearing this meaning the holie ghost vvhich as S. Chrysostome and other holie Fathers doe affirme ostantum non scelestum eius cor attigit moued his tongue and not his vvicked mind and vvas in his vvordes not in his sense made him vnvvittinglie to vtter a prophesie and a great high misterie that except one man to vvit Christ should die for the sinnes of the people none could be saued Novv then Syr this sentence of Caiphas hauing tvvo meanings and senses as you haue heard let vs examine vvhich vvas most probable to be vsed and alluded vnto by M. Garnet vvho gathering by manie coniectures that you and some other of his good friendes had a great desire to bring the Iesuitts vvithin the compasse of this late odious treason or at least-vvise vvithin the suspition or hatred thereof for that the lay-gentlmen partakers of the fact vvere thought to be deuoted tovvardes them and their Order and seing that God vnexpectedlie had deliuered him into your handes he might verie vvell thinke that he at least should paie for the rest and die also of likeli-hood for disgracing the rest and in that sense alluded to the vvordes of Caiphas tending to like policie 41. But novv for the second sense vvhich particularlie designed the death of Christ our Sauiour for the redemption of man-kinde none I thinke is so simple as vvould imagine M. Garnet to applie to himself though in this point also M. Attorney is to be taught out of true diuinitie that diuerse places vttered litterallie of Christ in holie scripture maie secondarily also by allusion be applied vnto men and this vvithout all horror of blasphemie or imputation of Atheisme vvhich are M. Attorneyes passionate accusations in this place As for example vvhere the Prophet vvriteth of him Et cum iniquis reputatus est he vvas esteemed vvith the vvicked vvhich vvas meant immediatlie and principallie by the holie-ghost of Christ and yet by allusion it maie be applied to anie of his seruants And that
this shall suffice to this point Now will M. Attorney passe to another of the commendation of Truth as though that were with him and his And wee shall follow him to examine that point also as wee haue done this other about Ignorance The Attorney On the other side Truth cannot be supported or defended by any thing but by Truth herselfe and is of that constitution and constancy that she cannot at any time or in any part or point be disagreable to her self She hateth all bumbasting and sophistication and bringeth with her certainty vnity simplicity and peace at the last Putida salsamenta amant origanum veritas pèr se placet honesta per se decent falsa fucis turpia phaleris indigent Ignorance is so far from excusing or extenuating the error of him that had power to finde out the truth which necessarily he ought to know wanted only will to seeke it as she will be a iust cause of his great punishment Quod scire debes non vis non pro ignorantia sed pro contemptu habers debet Error and falshood are of that condition as without any resistance they will in tyme of themselues fade and fall away But such is the state of Truth that though many doe impugne her yet will she of her self euer preuaile in the end and flourish like the palme-tree she may peraduenture by force for a tyme be troden downe but neuer by any meanes whatsoeuer can she be troden out The Catholike Deuine 16. None do more willinglie heare the commendation of Truth then we who say with S. Paul VVee can do nothing against truth but for truth And therfore do I willinglie ioyne with M. Attorney in this point of praisinge Truth Wee do mislike also no lesse then he all bumbasting and sophistication neither are we delighted with stinkinge salt-fish that had need of Orygon to giue it a good sauour Wee allow in like manner of his other latin phrases and do confesse that Truth herselfe may be troden downe for a tyme by force but neuer troden out But what is all this to the purpose we haue in hand of findinge out the Truth in this our controuersie Let vs suppose for the present that both partes do like well of her but what meanes is giuen heere or may be giuen to discouer where she lyeth In all other controuersies lightly our aduersaries are wont to remit vs only to scriptures for tryall which was an old tryck in like manner of their foresaid forernuners as the auncient Fathers testify for that scriptures being subiect to more cauillation many times both for the interpretation and sense then the controuersie it selfe gaue them commodity to make their contentions immortall 17. But the same Fathers vrging them with a shorter way asked them still Quid prius quid posterius What was first and what after for that heresie is nouelty and commeth in after the Catholike Truth first planted And for that euery hereticke pretendeth his heresie to be ancient and from the Apostles the said Fathers do vrge further that this Truth of our Religion must not only be eldest but must haue continued also from tyme to tyme at least with the greater part of Christians Quia proprium est hareticorum omnium saith old Tertullian pauca aduersus plâ—â—a posteriora aduersus priora defendere It is the property of all hereticks and their peculiar spirit to defend the lesser number against the greater and those things that are later against the more auncient Which agreeth with another saying of Tertullian Quod apud multos vnum inuenitur non est erratum sed traditum That which is found one and the self-same with many to witt the greater parte in the Christian Church is no error but commeth downe by tradition So hee But S. Augustine deliuereth another direction much conformable to this in sense though different in words Consider saith he what is KATH'HOLON Id est secundum totum non secundum partem According to the whole and not only to a part and this is the truth And another of his tyme saith Teneamus quod ab omnibus creditum est hoc enim verè Catholicum Let vs hold that which hath byn beleeued by all for this is truly Catholike and consequently Truth it self And another Father before them both Catholicum est quod vbique vnum That is Catholike vndoubtedly trew which euery where is one and the same And this both in tyme place and substance 18 These are the ancient Fathers directions now let vs apply them to our present question which is so much the easier to discusse for that albeit it comprehend some part of doctrine in controuersie concerninge the Right of temporall Princes to spirituall Iurisdiction yet is it principally and properly a question of fact to witt whether by the ancient common laws of England and practice of our Princes according to the same spiritual Iurisdiction they were exercised by them in former ages by force and vertue of their Imperiall crownes as Queene Elizabeth did or might do by the authority giuen her by an Act of Parlament in the first yeare of her raigne wherby she was made head of the Church and supreme gouernesse as well in all causes Ecclesiasticall as temporall In discussion wherof if we wil vse the directions of the forsaid Fathers for cleere and infallible tryall we shall easily find out where the Truth lyeth which is the but we ought to shoore at and not to contend in vayne for that our assertion quite contrary to that of M. Atourneys is That if we consider the whole ranke of our Christian English Kings from the very first that was conuerted to our Christian faith to witt King Ethelbert of Kent vnto the reigne of King Henry the eight for the space of more then nine hundered years and King Henry himself for the greater and best part of his reigne did all and euery one of them confesse acknowledg the spirituall power and Iurisdiction of the Sea of Rome and did neuer contradict the same in any one substantiall point either by word law or deed but did infinite wayes confirme the said authority ech one in their ages reignes And this is that KATH'HOLON or secundum totum which S. Augustine requireth and vbique vnam which the other Fathers do mention which is a Catholike proofe in a Catholike cause and M. Attorney must needs fly ad partem to a parte only to witt to two or three later Kings of aboue halfe a hundered that went before which is a schismaticall proofe as S. Augustine sheweth Contra partem Donati Against the parte of the heretick Donatus And before him Opratus Mileuitanus and diuers other Fathers who alwayes call Sectaries a Part For that they follow indeed but a part and Catholiks the whole and therof saith S. Augustine their name is deriued And thus much shall serue for our
and prescribeth in particular what is to be done as lawfull Iudge in these matters And to that of the French Bishops he giueth such answeres as therby he testifyeth that he wel knew himself to haue supreme authoritie and iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall as well ouer all Bishopps of France as of England and all countryes besides throughout all Christendome For thus he wrote as S. Bede relateth For as much as concerneth the Bishopps of France I gaue you no authoritie ouer them and from the ancient tymes of my precedessors the Bishop of Arles hath receaued his pall from the Sea of Rome whome we ought not to depriue os that authoritie which from them he hath receaued c. 12. And the same Pope Gregorie sending the pall which is the proper signe of Archi-episcopal authority vnto the same S. Augustine of England he appointeth him his limitts of power and iurisdiction and what he shall doe and giue to others and this without any reference vnto K. Ethelbert any way to depend of him in his said authority or execution therof For thus he writeth vnto him Reuerendissimo Sanctissimo Fratri Augustino Coepiscopo Gregorius seruus seruorum Dei. Quia noua Anglorum Ecclesia c. For that a new Church of the English nation by Gods gyft and your labour is now brought to participate of the grace of our Sauiour Christ we doe graunt vnto you the vse of the pall in the sayd Church only to be vsed in the solemne celebration of Masses we graunt you also authority to ordeine twelue Bishops vnder you which shal be subiect to your iurisdiction but yet sâ— as the Bishop which shal be ordeyned for the citty of London shall euer afterward be consecrated by a Synod and shall receaue also a pall of honour from this holy and Apostolike Sea of Rome â— wherin by Gods appointment I doe serue at this tyme. We doe will you also to send a Bishop to the Citty of Yorke whome your self shall thinke good to ordeyne but yet with this condition that if that Citty with other places neere about doe receaue the worde of God he may ordayne twelue Bishops also and so remaine with the honour of a metropolitan for that we doe intend God willing if we liue to giue him also the pall whome yet notwithstanding we will haue to be subiect to your disposition though after your death he shall so be ouer these Bishops whome he hath ordeyned as he be no way subiect to the iurisdiction of the Bishop of London c. But your Brotherhod shall not only be Superiour and haue authority ouer those Bishops which your self haue ordeined but ouer those also which shal be ordeined by the said Bishop of Yorke And so in the authority of Iesus Christ our God Sauiour you shall haue subiect vnto you all the Priests of Brittany to the end that from your mouth and holines of life they may receaue a true forme both of right belief and vertuous life and therby performing their dutyes of good Christians both in faith and manners they may come at length by Gods holy grace to enioye his heauenly Kingdome who keepe and defend you euer most reuerend Brother The tenth day before the Calends of Iuly Mauritius being Emperour c. the 4. indiction anno Domini 601. 13. By this epistle and commission of Pope Gregory we may see what authority he tooke himself to haue for all matters spiritual and Ecclesiasticall in our Countrey neither did he thinke herby to doe any iniury to King Ethelbert neither did the King take it soe or imagine that himself had any spirituall Iurisdiction or Ecclesiasticall authority to gouerne the Church by vertue of his temporall crowne more now by being a Christian then he had before when he was a Gentile but only that now he was to gouerne Ecclesiasticall persons also in ciuill and temporall matters and therby might rightly be called King of them both in the sense which befoâ—e in the second Chapter of this answere we haue declared 14. Nay good King Ethelbert was so far of from thinking himself to receaue any preiudice against the power and authority of his temporall Crowne by the spirituall iurisdiction ouer him and all others instituted by Pope Gregory as he infinitely reioyced therat and presently made temporall lawes to confirme the same hauing speciall care to prouide for the fafety and immunity of the Clergie as S. Bede doth signifie And moreouer that he reduced the forme of his secular iudgements and Tribunalls to the likenes of those of Rome Among other good things and benefits saith he which King Ethelbert with his wisdome did bring into his nation one was that he appointed by the counsaile of wise men the decrees of iudgements to be made according to the example of the Romanes which decrees being written in the English tongue doe remaine in vse and force vnto this day So Bede Who liued an hundred fifty yeeres after And this may suffice for example of the first Kingdome conuerted to Christian religion which was of Kent and the countreyes round about euen vnto the riuer of Humber 15. But if I would passe to the consideration of other Kingdoms also conuerted after this of their Christian CoÌ„mon-wealthes instituted and ordeyned according to the forme of this first there would be much to say For first some foure yeares after the conuersion of the sayd K. Ethelbert of Kent by S. Augustine was conuerted by the preaching of S. Mellitus Sebert or as S. Bede calleth him Sabered King of the East-saxons and some fiue yeares after that againe King Sigebert of the East-angles by the preaching of S. Felix Bishopp and some seuenteene yeares after that againe K. Edwyn of the Northumbers by the preaching of S. Paulinus And then further some nyne yeares after thatâ— K. Kinegilsus of the VVest-saxons by the preaching of S. Berinus and about the same time Prince Peda of the Mercians or Middle-iland people by the persuasion of the good K. Oswyn of Northumberland And finally about some 27. yeres after all this K. Ethelwâ—ld or Ethelwalch as S. Bede calleth him of the Southsaxons was conuerted by the preaching of S. VVilfride 16. All these Pagan Kingdomes as they receaued the faith and Kingdome of Christ by the industrye and labours of spirituall and Ecclesiasticall men that preached and instructed them and were subordinate the one to the other but all to the Sea os Rome so did those Kings now made Christians subiect themselues vnto them not only in matters of faith and beliefe but in discipline also and Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction as sheep to their Pastors according to that which before you haue heard S. Cregâ—â—â— Nazianzen tell the Emperour of his tyme and herby it came to passe that albeit these different Kingdomes had different teâ—porall lawes for secular affayres before their conuersion and reteyned the same afterward vntill England became one sole Monarchie
said King and Bishops tooke vnto themselues wholesome counsaile choosing and ordeyning particular Bishops in euery prouince of the Geuisses or westsaxons And wheras the said prouince had but two Bishops in old time now they deuided the same into fiue and presently the Synod being ended the said Archbishop was sent to Rome with honourable presents Qui Papam saith our Authour cum magna humilitate placauit Decretum Regis recitauit quod Apostolico maximè placuit He did with great humilitie endeauour to pacify the said Pope Formosus reciting vnto him the decree that King Edward had made for better furnishing the Countrey with more Bishops for the time to come then euer had byn before which most of all pleased the Apostolicall Pope Wherfore the Archbishop retourning into England ordeyned in the Citty of Canterbury seaueu Bishops vpon one day appointing them seuen distinct Bishoprickes Atque hoc totum saith he Papa firmauit vt damnaretur in perpetuum qui hoc decretum infirmaret And the Pope Formosus did confirme this decree of this distinction of Bishops in England daÌ„ning him eternally which should goe about to infringe the same So Malmesbury and consider the authority here vsed 58. The same Pope also wrote a letter to the Bishopps of England by the said Archbishop Pleamond in these wordes To our brethren and children in Christ all the Bishopps of England Formosus We hauing heard of the wicked rytes of Idolatrous Pagans which haue begun to spring vp againe in your partes and that yow haue held your peace as dumme doggs not able to barke we had determined to strike you all with the sword of separation from the body of Christ and his Church but for so much as our deere brother Pleamond your Archbishop hath tolde me that at length you are awakened and haue begun to renew the seed of Gods word by preaching which was so honourably sowne from this Sea in times past in the land of England we haue drawne backe and stayed the deuouring sword and moreouer doe send you the benediction of almighty God and of S. Peter Prince of the Apostles praying for you that you may haue perseuerance in the good things which you haue well begune c. 59. Thus went that letter with a far longer exhortation â—â— that behalfe with order and instruction how to proceed to coâ—tinew good Bishopps among them which was that as soone â—â— knowledge came to the Metropolitan of any Bishop dead he should presently without delay cause another Canonically to be elected in his place and himself to consecrate the same And moreouer he determineth that the Bishop of Canterbury hath byn euer from ancient times held for chiefe Metropolitan of England otdeyened so by S. Gregory himself as in the Roman Registers was authenticall recorded and therefore he confirmeth the same threatning that what man soeuer shall goe about to infringe this decree shal be separated perpetually from the body of Christ and his Church So Malmesbury 60. And in this example we see many points expressing the sense of these ages as first the vigilancy of the Pope Formosus ouer England the affaires therof though far remote from him and altogether embroyled with warrs no lesse then ouer other Prouinces Kingdomes of the world which is conforme to that which S. Bede writeth of the like diligence of Pope Agatho aboue two hundred yeares before this of Formosus that is to say that he seing the heresie of Monethelites that held but one only will in Christ to spring vp and encrease in diuerse places of the world sent one expressly from Rome into England to learne what passed there Pope Agatho saith Bede being desirous to vnderstand as in other prouinces so also in Britany what was the state of the English Church and whether it preserued it self chaste and vnspotted from the contagions of heretickes sent into England for this purpose a most reuerend Abbot named Iohn who procuring a Synod of Bishops to be gathered togeather about that matter by Theodorus the Archbishop found that the Catholike faith in England was conserued in all points entire and inuiolated of which Synod he had an authenticall copie deliuered him by publicke testimony to be carryed to Rome Thus S. Bede touching the attention and diligence of Pope Agatho in our English Ecclesiasticall affaires 61. And it is to be noted that in the same Synod is sett downe that fower seuerall Kings concurred thervnto to giue therby satisfaction vnto the Pope to wit Egfryd King of the Northumberâ— Ethelred of the Mercians Adelnulphus of the Eastangles Lotharius of Kent which is conforme to that which the King Edward the first â—â— the former example did when presently vpon the threatning letters of Pope Formosus he called forthwith a Councell remedyed the fault that was committed sent the Archbishop Pleamond to Rome to giue satisfaction and promise of amendment for the time to come which is to be presumed that none of these Kings would haue done if they had thought themselues iniured by this intermedling of the Pope as an externall power and that themselues had authority Ecclesiasticall deriued from their crownes to dispose order these things without any reference to the Sea Apostolike And so much for this argument and demonstration which openeth a window to see many things more which by me of purpose are pretermitted for that I couet not to be ouerlong The sixt Demonstration 62. The sixt Argument may be deduced from an vniuersall contemplation of all the Kings Archbishops and Bishops that haue liued and raigned togeather in all this tyme in England and the seuerall Prouinces and Kingdomes therof before the Conquest the Kings being in number aboue an hundred that were Christened as often before hath byn mentioned the Archbishops of Canterbury the spirituall heads of the English Church 32. from S. Augustine vnto Stigano and other Bishops of far greater number laying before our eyes what manner of men all these were what faith they beleeued and practised what vnion and subordination they had in spirituall and temporall iurisdiction amongst them selues both at home and abroad with the Sea Apostolike which in great part hath byn declared by the precedent arguments and demonstrations All which being layd togeather we may inferre that for so much as lawes are nothing else but ordinaunces and agreemenrs of the Prince and people to the publicke good of euery Kingdome State and Countrey we may inferre I say that according as we find the faith and religion of our Princes Bishops and people to haue byn in those dayes so were also their lawes For out of their religion they made their lawes and consequently it must needes follow that they being all perfectly Catholike according to the Roman vse as by all the former arguments you haue seene that they made no lawes concerning Ecclesiasticall matters nor admitted â—onceaued any from their ancestours nor could not doe they being also
Catholike that were repugnant or contrary to the Canonicall lawes of the vniuersall Church and Sea of Rome in those ages wherof againe ensueth that M. Attorney that telleth vs so often of the ancient and most ancient CoÌ„mon-lawes of England cannot presume to haue any law for him and his assertion within this compasse of 466. yeres before the Conquest for that those that should make or leaue vnto vs these lawes were all of a contrary iudgement and religion vnto him in the very point which he treateth of spiritual Iurisdiction As for example 63. There raigned in Kent in the first age of our primitiue Church successiuely these Kings to witt Ethelbert Eadbald Ircombert Egbert Lotharius Edrycus and VVithredus and their Archbishops of Canterbury by whome they gouerned themselues in spirituall matters were Augustine Laurence Mellitus Iustus Homrius Deusdedit Theodorus and Britwaldus And in London Mellitus Ceddus VVyna Erkenwald VValdherus and Ingualdus And in the sea of Rochester Iustus Romanus Paulinus Thamarus Damianus Putta Qâ—â—chelmus Germundus and Tobias All these kings with all these Bishops were of one and the self same religion and of one iudgement and sense in Ecclesiasticall matters and so were all the rest of the Christian Kings togeather with their Bishopps in other Kingdomes of the land And the like I might shew throughout all the other foure ages that ensue after this first before the Conquest And how then is it possible that these Princes with these Bishops and Counsaylours and with their people conforme to them in the same religion should make or admit lawes contrary to the common sense of the Catholike vniuersall Church in those daies concerning Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction And this is a demonstration which morally conuinceth and cannot by any reasonable man be denyed Whervnto I may adioyne that if they had made any such law coÌ„trary to the common sense of the generall Church in Church-matters they would haue byn noted and reprehended for it or at leastwise some memory would haue byn left therof by historiographers tradition register or some other monument which is not found nor euer will be And this shal be sufficient for this demonstration wherby occasion is giuen to the ingenious reader to prosecute the same and discourse further of himself and to consider how metaphysicall an imagination that of M. Attorney is of auncient lawes made in the ayre and no where extant contrary to the sense and iudgement both of Prince and people in those tymes The seuenth Demonstration 64. An other Demonstration not much vnlike vnto this may be taken from the view of externall Kingdomes in this tyme before our English Conquest to wit what they taught what they beleeued and what they practized in this point concerning Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction whether they deriued it or acknowledged the same in or from their temporall Kings or from their Bishops and Sea Apostolike of Rome For if they did the later then is it most certaine that all the Kings Kingdomes and people of England did the like for that otherwise they should haue byn noted and taxed as hath byn said for some discrepance diuision disagreement sedition schisme or singularity in this behalfe which is not read of Nor can M. Attorney or any Attorney else whomesoeuer he can take vnto him for his helpe in this matter euer shew me any one word of auncient testimony for proofe therof and thervpon may we confidently conclude that there was neuer any such thing 65. But now what was the doctrine vse and practise of all the rest of Christendome besides concerning Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction deriued from the Sea Apostolike of Rome as the head fountaine therof throughout all this tyme wherof we speake before our Conquest it shall be inough to cast our eyes only vpon the vniuersality of all writers in those dayes whose volumes are full of narrations apperteyning to this effect as namely of Bishops made throughout all Kingdomes by ordinaunce and authority of the Bishop of Rome Of Churches Abbyes Monasteryes Hospitalls confirmed and priuiledged by the said authority Of Kings and Emperours also annoynted by them and their authority for the spirituall temporall good of Christendome And in this very tyme wherof we talke happened the mutation of the Kingdome of France from Chilpericus to Pipinus and Charles his sonne and of the Roman Empire from the Grecians vnto the said Charles of the said Empire from the French to the Germanes by the authority of the Pope of Rome and infinite other publike testimonyes of supreme spirituall iurisdiction exercised 〈◊〉 where by that Sea with the approbation of all the worlde And no one example can be alleadged of any such power or iurisdiction pretended or exercised by any Prince temporall whatsoeuer throughout all the Christian world in this tyme by vs prescribed 66. And for so much as by this argument we presume that our English Kings and Princes ran vnitedly in all points of religion with others abroade for that they were neuer noted of any difference or opposition as hath byn said it followeth by good deduction and inference that no such Common-law as M. Attorney imagineth could haue place among them deriuing spirituall and Ecclesiastical iurisdiction from the right of Princes temporall Crownes and excluding that of the Sea Apostolike For in case that any such law had byn made it would haue byn extant either by writing or tradition and if it had byn Common as often here it is called it would haue byn knowne by some one at least besides M. Attorney for that community importeth participation with many how then could there be any such Common-lawes in those dayes which no man knew no man recorded no man euer thought or dreamed of as by all circumstances of those tymes and men and state of things may be presumed And if any such thing had byn deuised in those dayes it must needs haue byn reiected and impugned as singular schismaticall or hereticall for that it would haue byn contrary and contradictory to the common sense iudgement whole current of that time And let this suffice for this consideration The eight Demonstration 67. The eight Demonstration in this matter may be the extraordinary deuotion of our auncient Kings before the Conquest towardes the Sea of Rome in making their Kingdomes tributary thervnto euen in temporall things also which is a signe that they meant not to deny vnto that Sea her spirituall iurisdiction which from the beginning had byn exercised by the same in our countrey seeing voluntarily likewise they gaue her teÌ„porall iurisdiction in gathering and axacting this tribute of euery house throughout the Realme which beginning from K. Inas as all our Authors doe agree aboue 900. yeres gone hath byn continued euer since vnder the name of Peter-pence for that they were first giuen to S. Peter and to his Successours the Bishops of Rome vntill the later part of K. Henry the eight his raigne euen in the
the same Archbishops returning the yeare following to England againe the said Pope Alexander wrote to K. VVilliam by them Alexander Episcopus Seruus Seruorum Dei Charissimo filio Gulielnio glorioso Regi Anglorum c. Wherein after he had tolde him Inter mundi Principes Rectores egregiam vestrae religionis fanâ—am intelligimus that among all the Princes gouernours of the world wee haue heard the singular fame of your religion exhorting him to goe forward in the same for that perseuerance only to the end is the thing which bringeth the Crowne of euerlasting reward he toucheth also diuers points of defending Ecclesiasticall persons and libertyes of the Church of releeuing oppressed people vnder his dominion telling him that God will exact a seuere accoÌ„pt therof at his hands which no doubt was meant principally of the oppressed English nation by him wherof Lanfranke secretly had informed the said Pope After all this I say he telleth him of certaine busines that he had committed to Lanfranke to be handled in England in a Synod to be gathered there as namely about the preheminence of the two Archbishopricks Canterbury and Yorke And also to heare againe and define the cause of the Bishop of Chichester deposed before by his legats And finally he concludeth that he should beleiue Lanfranke Vt nostrae dilectionis affectum plenius cognoscatis reliqua nostrae legationis verba attentius audiatis that by him you may more fully vnderstand the affection of our loue towards you as also heare more attentiuely the rest of our legation committed vnto him c. Where he speaketh to the King as you see like a Superiour And Iohn Stow reciting the history of the said Synod gathered about these matters in England the yeare following at VVindesor hath these words taken out of auncient historiographers This yeare by the commaundement of Pope Alexander and consent of King VVilliam the Conquerour in the presence of the said King his Bishops Prelates and Nobility the primacy which Lanfranke Archbishop of Canterbury claymed ouer the Church and Archbishop of Yorke was examined and tryâ—d out c. Heere then was no repining of King VVilliam at the Popes authority in those dayes but all conformity rather with the same 13. I might alleadge many other examples to this effect as that which Stow writeth in the 17. yeare of the raigne of K. VVilliam and yeare of Christ 1083. that VVilliam Bishop of Durham by leaue of the King and nobles of the Realme went to Rome and obtained of Pope Gregory the 7. to bring the Monks from Tarrow and Yarmouth into the Cathedrall Church of Durham where he gaue to them lands Churches ornaments c. all which saith he K. VVilliam the Conqueror confirmed by his charter in confirmation no doubt of the Popes Charter which to procure he went to Rome and he had licence thervnto from the King and nobles that were sounders of that Church which licence they would neuer haue graunted if they had thought that the matter had appertained only to the King at home in his owne countrey and not to the Pope 14. And in the very same yeare K. VVilliam as before we haue touched being entred into great iealosie of the ambition and aspiring mynd of his halfe-brother Otho Bishop of Baion Earle of Kent least with his Councell and riches he might assist his sonne Roâ—â—rt and others that did rise in Normandy against him or as some thinke desirous to sease vpon his great riches and wealth which he gathered togeather he suddenlie returned from Normandy to the I le of VVight where he vnderstood the said Otho to be in great pompe pretending to goe to Rome and at vnawares apprehended him but yet for excuse of that violent fact upon a Bishop he made first a long speach vnto his nobles there present shewing that he did it not so much in respect of his owne temporall security as in defence of the Church which this man oppressed My brother saith he hath greatly oppressed England in my absence spoyled the Churches of their lands and rents made them naked of the ornaments giuen by our predecessours the Christian Kings that haue raigned before me in England and loued the Church of God endowing it with honours and gifts of many kindes VVherefore now as we beleeue they rest reioycing with a happy retribution Ethelbert and Edward S. Oswald Athulse Alfred Edward the elder Edgar and my cosen and most deare lord Edward the Confessor haue giuen riches vnto the holy Church the spouse of God my brother to whom I committed the gouernment of the whole Kingdome violently plucketh away their goods c. 15. This was one excuse vsed by the Conqueror Another was as Stow recordeth that he said that wheras his brother was both Bishops of Baion and Earle of Kent he apprehended him as Earle of Kent and not as Bishop of Baion that is to say as a lay-person and not as an Ecclesiasticall And yet further when he was vrged about that matter by his owne Prelates he was wont to say as Stow and others doe also note that he did it by particular licence of the Pope and not only by licence but also by his decree and commaundement and so he protested at his death Wherby we see how little opinioÌ„ he had of his owne spirituall iurisdiction in this behalfe Of King VVilliam the Conquerour his lawes in fauour of the Church and Church-men §. II. 16. But no one thing doth more exactly declare the sense and iudgement of King VVilliam in these things then his particular lawes which are recorded by Roger Houeden an author of good antiquity who shewing that King VVilliam in the 4. yeare of his raigne calling togeather all his Barons Gouernours of Prouinces twelue expert men out of euery shyre did reveiw the auncient lawes both of the English and Danes approuing those that were thought expedient and adding others of his owne beginning with those that appertained to the libertyes exaltation of the Church Taking our beginning saith he from the lawes of our holy mother the Church by which both King and Kingdome haue their sound fundament of subsisting c. And then followeth the first law with this title De clericis possessionibus corum Of Clergie-men their possessions the law it self is writen in these few words but containing much substance Omnis Clericus etiam omnes Scholares omnes res possessiones corum vbicunque fuerint pacem Dei Sanctae Ecclesiae habeant Let euery Clergie-man and all schollers and all their goods and possessions whersoeuer they be haue the peace of God and of holy Church And afterwards he declareth what this peace of the Church is to wit that neither their persons nor their goods can be arested molested or made to pay tribute or otherwise troubled by any secular iudge whatsoeuer 17. And in the second law
this fierce and warlike Prince did beare vnto this Prelate as also how singular authority and confidence the good Archbishop had with him 22. But as we haue said his true sense meaning will best be sene by owne his words behauiour at his death when finding himself in great affliction and perplexity of mynd with the â—â—ror therof as before hath byn touched and of Gods iudgemenâ— ensuing theron for that to vse his owne words he saw himself â—â—den with many and greiuous sinnes and greatly polluted with the effuâ—â—â—â— much bloud and ready to be taken by and by vnto the terrible examination 〈◊〉 God c. In this plight I say which Stow and others 〈◊〉 downe out of auncient authors his greatest comfort◠〈…〉 he had byn euer obedient to the Church whervnto by 〈…〉 he assigned the most parte of his treasure adding this 〈◊〉 therof that those things that had byn heaped vp by wicked deeds might be disposed to holy vses of Saincts And then turning his speach to Ecclesiasticall men he said You remember how sweetly I haue euer loued you and how strongly against all emulations defended you The Church of God which is our mother I neuer violated but in euery place where reason required did willingly honour I haue not sold Ecclesiasticall dignityes and Symony I allwayes detested in the election of Pastors I euer searched out the merits of his life his learning and wisdome and so neer as I could committed the gouernment of the Church vnto the most worthy this may be seen in Lanfranke Archbishop of Canterbury and in Anselme Abbot of Becke and others c. This course haue I followed from my first years this I leaue vnto my heirs to be kept in all tymes In this doe you my Children euer follow me to the end that heerby you may please both God and man c. 23. And this was the last speach of the Conquerour to his children and others standing by at the day of his death which doth sufficiently declare what his sense iudgement was concerning this point of spirituall iurisdiction And to impugne and ouerthrow all this our aduersary the Attorney had need to bring many and strong batterings as you see Let vs passe then to examine what they are The first Instance taken out of the raigne of this K. VVilliam the Conquerour §. III. 24. One instance only doth M. Attorney find to be alleadged during the raigne of this Prince which we shall alleadge in his owne words as they ly in his booke and this shall we obserue commonly through all his instances Thus then he saith The Attorney It is agreed that no man only can make any appropriation of any Church hauing cure of soules being a thing Ecclesiasticall and to be made to some person Ecclesiasticall but he that hath Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction But William the first of himself without any other as king of England made appropriâ—tâ—â—â— of Churches vvith Cure to Ecclesiasticall persons vvherefore it followeth that he had Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction The Catholike Deuine 25. This is the only one argument or instance as hath bene said which M. Attorney hath found in all the life of K. VVilliam the first wherby to proue his principall Conclusion which is that K. VVilliam had as much Ecclesiasticall power and iurisdiction by the auncient common lawes of England as euer had Queene Elizabeth and she as much as euer anie Ecclesiasticall person had or might haue in EnglaÌ„d And yet you se that if al were grauÌ„ted which heere is set downe it amounteth to no more but that K. VVilliam did bestow a benefice with Cure vpon an Ecclesiasticall person which he might doe either by nominating or presenting as patrone of the benefice or by some indult from the Pope or Bishop of the diocesse in that behalfe or vnder ratihabition as before in Charters hath been declared or finallie he might doe it De facto and not De Iure as oftentimes it falleth out in such actions of Princes And in all these senses though we graunt whatsoeuer M. Attorney saith setteth downe in this place it commeth so far short to proue supreame Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction in K. VVilliam as it proueth not anie spirituall iurisdiction at all for that all he saith may be grauuted in any lay-man whatsoeuer which wee shall endeauour to make cleere by explication and distinction of those things which heere are set downe confusedly by M. Attorney 26. First then this instance consisteth of a Syllogisme as you see the Maior wherof is related out of the collection of some law booke as may appeere by his quotation in the margent though I haue not the booke by me and we graunt the proposition to be true in his due sense to wit that no man can appropriate a Church or benefice with Cure to an Ecclesiasticall man but he that hath Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction And then we deny the Minor proposition which â—â— of M. Attorneys owne addition to wit that K. VVilliam did so appropriate or bestow any benefice with Cure vpon an Ecclesiasticall person except it were in one of the fower manners before specified And M. Attorney ought to haue proued his said Minor if he had delt substantially 27. And moreouer I find that he faltereth somewhat also 〈◊〉 setting downe the very words of his Maior proposition though much more in the true sense as presently shall be declared For wheras he beginneth It is agreed that no man can make any appropriation c. the latin words of this Report cited by himself are Inter omnes conuenit quod nemo possit appropriare c. which haue this sense that it is a common receiued opinion to wit from the Canon-law that no man can appropriate or bestow a Church with Cure except he haue Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction But M. Attorney by shutting out the word inter omnes and translating the rest it is agreed would make his reader thinke that it was an agreement or resolution only of the temporall Iudges in this case in K. Edward the 3. his raigne and that they first founded this Maxime about Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction wheras they related it only as an auncient Maxime receaued in the Canon and Ciuill law in this sense which presently we shall declare 28. And wheras he translateth the word appropriare Ecclesiam Ecclesiasticae personae To make appropriation of any Church to an Ecclesiasticall person this may haue two senses be meant either of appropriations or collations of benefices wherin there is little difference in respect of our controuersie for that neither appropriation nor collation can be truly and properly made without spirituall iurisdiction either ordinary or delegate And as for appropriations which consisted coÌ„monly in this that the gleab-lands and the better tithes were vnited to some religious houses or Parsons leauing the lesser tithes vnto their Vicars they could not be made nor graunted but by the licence of the Sea Apostolicke as neither in our
daies they can in Catholike countries vpoÌ„ this pretence of a greater good to ensue therby vnto the Church and Countrey where they are graunted and consequently if K. VVilliam in his dayes did make any such appropriatioÌ„s in this sense it is to be vnderstood that the same was first allowed by the Sea Apostolicke as before we haue shewed in the examples of Charters for buylding establishing of Churches monasteryes and other pious workes And the same may be gathered also out of the Ordinances made about the said appropriations afterward in the 15. yeare of K. Richard the second and 4. of K. Henry the fourth by Parlament wherin the Bishops did fit as cheife in these affaires 29. Collations also of benefices require spirituall power and iurisdiction in him that doth giue or confer the same though in this there may be diuers degrees which are declared 〈…〉 Canon-law And M. Attorney being so eminent in the common-law ought not alltogeather to haue omitted them For first wheras the word Benefice or Church with Cure or Parish for all these are vsed oftentimes for the same doth comprehend as well a Bishopricke as a lower benefice if M. Attorney will vnderstand it heere of the former that is to say that no man can appropriate or bestow a Bishoprick vpon any person but he that hath Ecclesiastical iurisdiction he must remember if before he knew it that three things doe concurre in making of a Bishop by diuine and Canon-law to wit Election Confirmation and Consecration as may be seen by the places therof heere quoted in the margent not to trouble the text therewith to vnskillfull Readers 30. And albeit the first to wit Election when it is iustly made doe giue right to the elected to pretend the second and third that is confirmation and consecration nor can they be denyed vnto him without iniury except vpon iust cause as the same law saith yet can he not vpon his only Election exercise any part of his office of a Bishop either in iurisdiction or order But when he hath the second parte which is confirmation and induction to the benefice which is properly called inuestiture then hath he iurisdiction vpon those people and may exercise the Acts therof by visiting punishing or the like but not the Acts of Order vntill he haue consecration also that is to say he cannot make Priests nor administer the sacrament of confirmation nor doe other such actions as are peculiar to Episcopall Order 31. Now for these three things the first which is election or nomination may be perfourmed by any Prince or lay-man that hath lawfull authority therevnto which diuers wayes he may haue as after shall be shewed either by Ius patronatus of the benefice or prerogatiue graunted him by the Church The second which is confirmation and giuing of iurisdiction must only proceed from him that is the fountaine of all spirituall iurisdiction vnder Christ which is the Bishop of Rome or some Metropolitan or Bishop vnder him that hath authority and commission from him The third which is consecration must be done according to the Canon-law by three Bishops at the least And by this also may wee vnderstand what is necessary for the appropriating or conferring of any lower Benefice with Cure to an ordinary Priest to wit the two first election or presentation which may be done by a secular man and confirmation or inuestiture which allwayes must come as hath byn said either from the Sea Apostolicke or some Bishop authorized vnder him for that it giueth spirituall power and iurisdiction ouer soules which no man can doe but he that hath it in himself no man can haue it but he that receaued it from those that had it immediatly from Christ to wit S. Peter the rest of the Apostles and their Successors Gouernours of the Church as before in the second Chapter of this Answere we haue declared 32. And yet further it is to be noted for more cleernes and distinction that the first of these three to wit Election is of foure distinct sortes in the Canon-law The one called election properly or choise by suffrages and voyces of such as haue to choose The second is termed Postulation when one is offred that is not altogeather capable of the benefice but hath need of dispensation The third is called presentation when he that is patron or hath the aduouson of any benefice presenteth one by right of that Ius patronatus the right of patronage The fourth is called nomination which hath diuers curious differences noted in the law ouer long heer to be discussed But this is sufficient for our purpose that all these foure wayes doe comprehend but only the first degree of appropriating a benefice to any incumbent And albeit originally they doe all foure appertaine to Ecclesiasticall power for that they concerne an Ecclesiasticall thinge yet for many ages haue they byn imparted also by authority and commissioÌ„ of the Sea Apostolicke or by right of patronage to secular lay-men both Princes and others I meane to choose postulate present and nominate fit persons both for Bishops and Pastors And this we see in vse now for many ages in all Catholike Countreys throughout Christendome especially concerning Bishopricks and greatest dignityes Ecclesiasticall But yet no Prince taketh that authority as descending from his Crowne but as by commission graunt or indult of the Sea Apostolicke which they hold to be the fountaine of all spirituall authority and iurisdiction 33. All which being well vnderstood it is easy to distinguish and therby euacuate the argument of M. Attorney in this place which is a plaine Sophisme and deceitfull Syllogisme hauing one sense in the Maior another in the minor For if in the maior proposition wherin he saith out of the Reporte of his law that no man can appropriate an ecclesiasticall benefice with Cure but he that hath spâ—rituall iurisdiction If he vnderstand I say the first degree only which is to choose postulate present or nominate then the said maior is false for that lay-men may doe it also by commission as before we haue said and then doe we graunt his minor proposition that K. VVilliam did or might so appropriate But if he vnderstand in the second or third degree of confirmation and consecration of Bishops then is the maior true the minor false And so M. Attorneys syllogisme euery way is found faulty and guylfull nor worthy of his place and credit 34. And yet will I add one thing more for conclusion of this matter which is that as diuers secular Princes in former ages and in ours also haue had the first degree of approprition as hath been declared to wit to nominate fit persons so haue diuerse pretended as well in our Countries as elswhere to haue in a certaine manner the second from the Sea Apostolicke that is to say to giue the inuestitures in Bishopricks Abbyes and other chiefe
our whole former discourse you haue seen 33. But now let vs contemplate a little the last conclusion of M. Attorney vpon this narration Now to commaund saith he and to be obayed belongeth to soueraigne and supreme gouernement which we deny not in the sense wherin it may be true that is to commaund and to be obaied in temporall matters belongeth to soueraignty in that kinde and to commaund and be obaied in spirituall matters belongeth to soueraignty in those affaires wherof you haue heard many examples concerning the Sea of Rome before alleadged But for the King and his temporall officers to demaund a certificate from the Bishops Court for the Statute vsed not the word of cōmaunding or obaying to let them know thereby what the Bishops sentence and iudgement is to the end they may frame theirs accordingly this by M. Attorneys leaue is no commaunding in the iurisdiction it self of spirituall affaires and consequently inferreth no Ecclesiasticall soueraignty And if he be not satisfied by that which we haue already alleadged out of the raigne of K. Henry the third of spirituall soueraignty acknowledged by him and all his Realme in the Sea of Rome but would see further some examples in particular of the same soueraignty or superiority at least vsed and practised by the Bishops of England towards the King himself and Realme in that kind let him consider these examples following besides the former 34. When K. Henry the third vpon the 16. yeare of his raigne falling out with Hubert de Burgo Earle of Kent that had byn his great fauourite high Iusticer for many former years cast him into prison and he escaping fled to a certaine Chappel for Sanctuary from whence the King had caused him to be drawne forth Roger Bishop of London for that it was in his Diocesse came vnto him and said that except he caused him to be restored to the place of Sanctuary againe Ipse omnes huius violentiae authores excommunicationis sententia innodaret He would bind all the authors of this violence vsed by the sentence of excōmunication And what followed of this Did the King deny his authority or say that he was not vnder his iurisdiction or that himself had supreme authority and iurisdiction ouer the Bishop in that case as he might haue done according to M. Attorneys assertiō No For the words of Mathew Paris immediately following are these Rex autem licet inuitus reatum suum intelligens remisit Hubertum ad Capellain vbi captus suerit à militibus armatis restituitur ab ijsdem quint◠Calendas Octobris The King though against his will perceiuing his owne fault sent backe Earle Hubert to the Chappell againe where he was restored vpon the fifth day before the Calends of October by the same armed souldiars that had drawne him from thence And the same Author addeth that the Kings anger was so great as he commaunded the Earles of Hartford and Essex to set souldiars about the said Chappell that no meate might be giuen him vntill he rendred himself And not many dayes after this the said Earle Hubert being carried from that Chappel vpon composition vnto the castle of Vise in the Diocesse of Salisbury he by help of two souldiars that kept him escaping thence got into a Parish Church neer by out of which being taken by the Kings officers Robert Bishop of Salisbury excommunicated them altogeather with their aiders and defenders and then went to the King in companie of other Bishops to denounce vnto him the said sentence who after much resistance yeelded saith our Author Et in eadem Ecclesia concedente sed inuito Rege remissus est 15. Calend Nouemb. And so the said Earle Hubert was sent backe againe out of the said Castle vnto the Church the King yeelding thervnto though against his will vpon the 15. day before the Calends of Nouember in the yeare 1232. 35. The next yeare after this againe the forsaid Roger Bishop of London hauing been at Rome returned to Douer found there VValter Bishop of Carleile in his iourney towards Rome hauing appealed to the Pope against K. Henry for certaine iniuries offered him and to his Church as he pretended and albeit the King did not let or forbid his repaire to Rome yet shewing himself much displeased therewith his officers at the port handled him verie discourteouslie and denied him passage without the Kings licence which the said Bishop of London seeing excommunicated all the Kings officers that had parte in that violence and then going to Hereford where the King at that time lay with a great army to inuade VVales and taking certaine Bishops with him they tolde his Maiesty of the abuse committed Which when the K. seemed not to care for or not willing to redresse they renewed there againe in the Kings presence the sentence of excommunication against the said malefactors and all those that assisted or fauoured them Non mediocriter Rege murmurante saith our Author ne talem ferrent sententiam prohibente The King not a little repinning and forbidding them to pronounce any such sentence So as heere we see commaunding without obaying in spirituall matters meeteth with M. Attorneys conclusion that to commaunde and to bee obaied belongeth to soueraignty and supreme gouernement 36. And yet further the next yeare ensuing which was the 18. of K. Henries raigne the King being highlie offended with the Earle Marshall of England for entring into a certaine Castle of his owne by force Praecepit Episcopis cunctis vt Mariscallum nominatim excommunicarent Sed illi è contrae communiter dixerunt Indignum esse quia Castellum quod suum fuit occupauit The King commaunded all the Bishops being gathered togeather in Parlament to excommunicate by name the Earle Marshall But they answered him with one voice to the contrarie that hee deserued it not for so much as he had taken but his owne Castle And heere againe we see cōmaunding without obaying in spiritual affaires And if the King had thought himself to be supreme in Ecclesiasticall authoritie he might haue excommunicated the Marshall himself without depending of his Bishops 37. And a few dayes after this againe vpon the yeare 1234. the holy man Edmund that afterward was canonized for a Saint being consecrated Archbishop of Canterbury at which consecration the King himself was present with his nobility and 13. Bishops as our Author recounteth the said Archbishop after his consecration consulting with the said Bishops nobility about the pittifull State of the Realme deuided in it self by the Kings euill gouernment that followed the counsaile of Pictauians and other strangers the said Archbishop went to the King laid the inconueniences before him humbly besought him to take the true remedy which was to dismisse those strangers and if he would not he should be forced to vse Ecclesiasticall Censures against them Et ipse in cōtinenti cum omnibus qui aderant Praelatis in
We read also that when in the yeare 1299. King Edward was passed ouer with a great army into Flanders and did destroy that Countrey by fire and sword Pope Boniface sent two Cardinall-Legates to entreat him that he would be content to make truce for two yeares to the intent that peace in the meane time might be concluded adding further-more saith our Author paenam excommunicationis interdicti terrarum suarum the payne of excommunication and Interdict of his countreys if he yeelded not therevnto Sed Rex perpendens c. consensit in treguas indictas saith he the King considering well all circumstances c. did consent vnto the truce appointed by the Pope And wheras the next yeare after by other messengers sent vnto him in Canterb. the said Pope Boniface desired him to put at liberty Iohn King of Scotland which he had in hold assuring him that the King of England should leâ—se nothing by this Eorum petitioni Rex condescendens respondit se ipsum loannem tanquam seductorem falsum periurum ad Papam missurum The King condescending to their petition made answere that he would send the said Iohn as a false periured deceauer vnto the Pope to be punished by him And so he did and they caried him into France with them 18. And when afterward in the yeare 1301. King Edward was busily attent to his warrs in Scotland and Pope Boniface enformed by the grieuous complaints of the Scottish-men that K. Edward did them iniury wrote and gaue in commission to the Archbishop of Canterbury by an expresse messenger named Humbert to goe vnto the King and will him to desiste and to remit the iustice of the matter to be examined and tryed by the Sea Apostolicke anyd though the said King for the present tooke the matter very grieuously and sware that he would prosecute his said enterprize to the vttermost yet a little while after in the same yeare he sent the Earle of Lincolne and Syr Hugh Spencer to the said Sea Apostolicke to shew the right of his cause and what iniuries he had receaued at the Scots hands Iusuper Dominum Papam deprecarentur ne mendacij fabricatoribus sinum aperiret And that moreouer they should beseech the Pope that he would not open his bosome of beliefe vnto the Scottish-men that deuised lyes wherevnto the Pope hearkening wished notwithstanding that the King for his cause would giue the truce for a tyme by him assigned wherevnto the King yeelded 19. And when in the yeare following the said Pope Bonifacius vpon instance of the said Scottish-men wrote more earnestly to K. Edward in this affayre alleadging that Scotland was in the protection of the Sea Apostolicke yea and that it apperteyned also to the temporal right of the Church by submission belike of the Prince and inhabitants thereof at that tyme made the King gathering a Parlament at Lincolne determined therin first to write himself to the Pope about this matter and then that the lay-nobility and people should write another letter somewhat more earnestly to the same effect The Kings letter began thus Sanctissimo in Christo Patri Domino Bonifacio diuina prouidentia Sancta Romanae vniuersalis Ecclesiae summo Pontifici Edwardus Dei gratia Rex Angliae salutem deuota pedum oscula beatorum To the most holy father in Christ Boniface by Gods prouidence supreme Bishop of the holy Romane and vniuersall Church Edward by the grace of God King of England sendeth greeting and the deuout kissing of his blessed feete By which title we may see in what estimation he held the Pope at that day albeit in that letter he doth protest that he doth not send this his iustification for his pretence to Scotland in forme of iudgement to haue it tryed by the Sea Apostolicke as making any doubte therof but only to enforme his Holines conscience which he doth very largely beginning from the comming of Brutus himself into England yet doth he conclude beseeching him not to beleeue the informations of his aduersaryes and emulators Sed Statum nostrum iura nostra Regia supradicta habere velitis si placet paternis affectibus commendata That it may please you to haue our State and Kingly right before laid downe recommended to your fatherly affection 20. But the Earles and Barons and lay nobility of the land that wrote a seuerall letter to the Pope as before hath byn said were more earnest in defence of the Kings title saying Manu tenebimus cum toto posse totisque viribus c. We will hold and defend the same with all our power and forces nor will we permit our King though he would to leaue of this title Quocirca Sanctitati Vestrae reuerenter humiliter supplicamus c. Wherefore we doe reuerently and humbly make supplication to your Holines that you will defend our said King that is a deuout sonne of the Catholicke Romane Church as also his rightes libertyes customes and lawes and permit him to continew therin without diminution or molestation c. Giuen at Lincolne 1301. 21. And by all this now we may perceaue the state of things in our countrey at that time as also the sense and iudgement of K. Edward and his realme about this our controuersie of spiritual and Ecclesiasticall authority And that if this King did vse sometymes some rigorous dealing towards the Clergy it was not for that he doubted of their spirituall authority or esteemed the same to be in himself but partly vpon his forsaid necessity of warre and partly for the emulation conceaued against them by the laity for their wealth and other such causes And as for the lawes which he made in their preiudice as that of Mort-main wherby is prohibited that any thing shall passe ad manum mortuam that is to say to any of their communityes that pay not tribute to the King without the Kings speciall licence some other lawes in like manner for restraint as it seemed of their externall iurisdiction in certaine affaires it proceeded of the same emulation and complaints of the subiects begun in the time of King Henry the third as you haue heard and continued in this mans dayes as also in the dayes of diuers of his succesors But this is nothing to our question in hand though M. Attorney hath nothing else but such matter as this as presently you shall see for now shall we passe to his obiections vnder this King which are foure of very small moment as by handling will appeare The Attorney In the raigne of K. Edward the first a subiect brought in a Bull of excommunication against another subiect of this Realme and published it to the Lord Treasurer of England and â—his was by the auncient common-law of England adiudged treason against the King his Crowne and dignity for the which the offender should haue byn drawne and hanged but at the great instance of the
of heresie being high treason against the allmighty but by the Archbishop and all the Clergy of that prouince and after abiured therevpon and after that newly conuicted and condemned by the Clergy of that prouince in their generall Councell of Conuocation But the Statute of 2. H. 4. cap. 15. doth giue the Bishop in his Diocesse power to condemne an hereticke and that before that Statute he could not be committed to the secular power to be burnt vntill he had once abiured and was againe relapsed to that or some other heresie Wherby it appeareth that the King by consent of Parlament directed the proceedings in the Ecclesiasticall Courte in case of heresie and other matters more spirituall The Pope cannot alter the lawes of England The Catholicke Deuine Why doth not M. Attorney set dovâ—ne those auncient laws Ecclesiasticall of this Realme Will he say that they were any other then the Common Canon laws of the Roman Church in those daies He cannot with any probability And as for the matter heere touched that no man could be conuicted of heresie but by the Archbishop and all the Clergie of that Prouince and after abiured and then newly conuicted and condemned againe by a generall Councell of Conuocation c In some points he hitteth right but in other not For when any new heresie is discouered it must be iudged and condemned by some such Synod or Councell as heer is mentioned if the head of the Church haue not condemned it before But when the heresie is condemned it was neuer necessary to call such Synods or Councell for conuicting of euery particular man that shall be accused of that heresie and much lesse was it needfull that there should be two seuerall conuictions the one before abiuration the other after except in such as were relapsed for what if the hereticke should stand stiffely to it vpon his first conuiction and would not abiure but defend his heresie did the anncient laws Ecclesiasticall of England thinke you forbid him in this case to be punished I thinke not 10. But M. Attorney hath a note in the margent wherat I cannot but maruaile for that he hearing in this place out of the old sense of our ancient lawes heresie to be held for high treason against God and that as he supposeth it must be twise conuicted which is only true in relapse saith in the margent This had a resemblance to an Attainder of treason wherin there must be first an indictment by one Iury and a conuiction by another But I deny this resemblance to be of any moment for the forme of proceeding though for the thing I graunt that heresie is truly treason against God but this double conuiction heer mentioned by two Iuries hath little or no similitude with the other of relapsed heresie where the party is first permitted to abiure his first fault and not punished except he offend the second time in the same Which yet I persuade my self M. Attorney will not allow in humane treasons against the Prince that he must twise iterate his fault before he can be punished and so the parity or similitude holdeth not 11. But now to the principall point where the Attorney saieth that the Statute of K. Henry the 4. doth giue the Bishop in his Diocesse power to condemne an hereticke and that before that Statute he could not be committed to the secular power to be punished vntill he had once abiured and was againe relapsed c. and that heerby it appeareth that the King directed Ecclesiasticall proceedings c. Diuerse errors are heere couched togeather and then if ignorance be the inseperable twynne of euery error as M. Attorney in his Preface holdeth you know what will ensue 12. First then it is presumed in this assertion that no hereticke could be put to death in old tyme except he were relapsed that is to say had once at least abiured his heresie and fallen vnto it againe which is false For that albeit such people were most of all to be punished for their periury and inconstancy yet other also that neuer abiured if they stood obstinate might by ancient laws as well Ciuill as Canonicall be punished by death as in the Ciuill is auerred by the particular laws and ordinations of Theodosius Valentinian Martian Iustinian and other Christian Emperours extant in the Code And in the Canon law in like manner is determined by diuers definitions there to be seen that incorrigible hereticks are to be deliuered ouer to the secular power to be punished by them whether they be relapsed or not relapsed though more the relapsed And all this was before the Statute of K. Henry the 4. which did nothing els but allow and confirme the vse and exercise of the said laws For so it appertained vnto him as King of the Realme to consider whether the exercise of these Ecclesiasticall laws haue any incoÌ„uenience against the State or no. 13. And moreouer where it is heer said that the Statute of K. Henry giueth the Bishop power in his Diocesse to condemne an hereticke as though before he had it not by Canon-law is another grosse error For that this fact of K. Henry was nothing els but an approbation of a more auncient decree made before by Pope Gregory the 9. extant in the Decretals of the Canon-law in these words Quoniam Episcoporum numerus c. For that the number of Bishops appointed by auncient Canons for the degradation of Clergy-men cannot alwayes so easily come togeather we graunt vnto you Archbishop of Rhemes that when any Priest or Clerke being within holy Orders is either to be giuen ouer to the secular Courte to be punished for heresie or perpetually to be walled vp you calling togeather the Abbots and other Prelates and religious persons and learned men of your Diocesse which you shall thinke good may alone degrade him in their presence you being his Bishop c. 14. This was the Decree of Pope Gregory aboue two hundred yeares before King Henryes Statute for giuing licence to euery Bishop within his Diocesse alone with the help of his learned counsell and other assistance heer mentioned to condemne degrade and deliuer ouer to secular power any obstinate hereticke relapsed or not relapsed though such as were not relapsed and acknowledged their faultes might be dealt withall more mildly as by walling or shutting them vp as heer is mentioned And that this Decree of Pope Gregory was an exception or priuiledged forme of proceeding from the auncient Canons that appointed a certaine precise number of Bishops to be called togeather for the deposition of Deacons Priests and Bishops appeareth by the words thereof that doe mention the said Canons which you may see in the body of the Canon-law cited out of the Councell of Carthage aboue twelue hundred years past So as M. Attorneys inference that heerby K. Henry tooke vpon him to direct the proceedings of the Ecclesiasticall Courte in
the Kings Ecclesiasticall lavves or the Ecclesiasticall lavves of England Statut. de Consult editum an 24. E. 1. The explication true meaning of the former prouision 〈…〉 â—â—dâ—â—ations 〈◊〉 anno 5. Edouardi 2. 〈◊〉 18. 〈◊〉 â— cap. 5. Different Courtes shevv different origen of authorityes M. Attorneys common refuge refuted These 2. Kings made most restraints The punishment of these tvvo Princes and their posterity for their violence vsed tovvards the church Particular motiues of K. Edvvard 3. for proceeding as he had VValsingam in vit Ed. 1. anno â—341 The Kings letter to Pope Clement the sixt The complaint reasons against prouisions froÌ„ Rome * Sup. 35. â— â— VValsingam 〈◊〉 vita Edouards 3. The humble supplication of King Edvvard to the Pope before he made his restrictioÌ„s King Edvvardes great embassage vnto the Pope King Edvvards protestation of obedience for himself and his The continâ—ance of the Popes proâ—â—â—â—â— in England VValsing in vita Ed â— an 1366. Diuers other examples The lavve of premunire Polidor hist. Angl. lib. 19. A concordate betvvene the Pope and K. Edvv. for prouisions Supra cap. â— â— 4. 1. instance 16 â— 3. 〈◊〉 excom 4. 1. Ansvvere VValsing in vita Edou 3. anno 1340. â— instance In the Raigne of Ed. 3. â— Ansvvere Snprâ— fol 9. The common lavv cannot determine vvho shall giue cure of benefices vvith spirituall authority belonging therevnto This instance maketh against M. Attorney himselfe 3. Instance 17. â— 3. 23. 20. E 3. enâ—oâ—â—â— 9.16 E. 3 tit bâ—â—u 66. 21 E. 3.6 â— H. 7. 14. Fâ—â—z Na. br 2. Ed. 3. â—â—t excom 6. 21 E. 3. 4. fol. 4. 23. E 3. l. Ass pl. 75. 27. Ed. 3. fol 84. Fitz Na. Br. fol. 34. The Ansvvere to the first second 26. 〈◊〉 King Edâ—vard did not giue Episcopal iurisdictioÌ„ Supra cap. 2. 3. The saying of the Emp. Valentin Supra cap. 4. Supra cap. 6. To the 4. Trifling obiectioÌ„s To the 5. To the sixth Supra cap. 7. M. Attorneys case plaine against himself The 4. Instance 30. E. 3. l. ass pl. 19. 32. H. 4. 16 14 H. 4. 14. 8. H. 6. fol. 3. 35. H. 6. 42. 28 H 6. 1. 7. Ed. 36 14. 11. E. 4. 16 Fitz. Na. Br. fol. 64 E. vide 9. E. 4. fol. 3. hereafter fol. 11. It ought to be determined in the Ecclesiastical Courtes of EnglaÌ„d 21. E. 3. tit excoâ— 6. 31 â— 3. tit Ayde de Roy 103. The Ansvvere Bulls from Rome not admitted except they come certifyed froÌ„ some Prelate at home Sâ—â— Sup. cap. 7. Kings are capable of ecclesiasticall iurisdiction by commission The â— Instance 38. ass pl. 30. See the stat of 15. E. t. c. 4. 31. E. â— c. 11. 38. Ass. pl. 22. 46. E. â— tit pramunure 6. 49. E. 3. l. Ass. pl. 8. The Ansvvere Some things may beloÌ„g to differeÌ„t courtes in different respects Supra in 〈◊〉 â— VVhy the Abbot of VValtam vvas seuerely punished The â— Instance The summe of the first restraint about Prouisions Stat. 25. E. 3. de prouisoribus The Ansvvere AgreemeÌ„t betvvene the King and Pope about prouisioÌ„s VValsing in vita 〈◊〉 an 1371. See S. Bernard a◠〈◊〉 â—l 2. de Consideracione ad Eugeniâ—â— Of the reasons manner of coÌ„cluding these restraints by K. E. the 3. King Edvvards restraints diminished not his devv respect to the church An. 2â— E. 3. â—tat 3. Stat. â— cap. 1. 42. E. 3. â— 1. The disordinate life of K. Edvvard the third VValsing in vita Edouardi 3. an 1340. This King raigned 12 years froÌ„ 1377. to 1399. The causes of K. Richardes disorders King Richard often confirmed the libertyes of the church The practice of Church-libertyes by Clergy-men vnder K. Richard the second Respect borne by King Richard to the true Pope 2. Rich. 2. cap. 7. King Richard obeyed the Censures of the Church VValsing an 1379. M. Attorneys Instance out of this K. Raigne The crovvne of EnglaÌ„d not subiect to any in temporalityes In vvhat sense the Bishop yelded to the statute of Premunire K. Henr. 4. raigned 13. yeares from 1399. to 1412. Stovv in Kent 4. H. â— raigned ten years from 1412. to 1422. Richard Earle of Cambridg Henry lord Scroope treasurer Edmond Earle of March c. H. 6. raigned 18 yeres from 1422. to 146â— Polidor lib. 12. Hist. Augâ— in Hen. 6. VValsing in vita Henriei 4. an 1490. English Prelates sent to the Councell of CoÌ„stance Lavves for executing of Lollard and vvicklifists First Instance 2. H. 4. fol. 9. The Ansvvere Hovv Bishops may be called the Kings spirituall Iudges Supra cap. â— 2 Instance Fitz. Nat. 〈◊〉 269. This had a resemblance to an Attainder of treason â—herin there must be first an ind4ctment by one Iurie and a conuiction â—y anâ—ther 11. H. 4. 37. The Ansâ—â—re Tvvo condemnation not euer necessary in case of hâ—resy M. Attorneys marginal note reproued In Cod. l. Manicheos l. Arriani l. Quicunque apud Paul Diacon l. 14. 16. * See cap. ad abolendum cap. excoÌ„municamus extra de haeret in 6. de heret cap. Super co 6. Decâ—et l 5. 〈◊〉 2. de liçreticis An. 1227. Decree of Pope Gregory the nynth about proceeding against heretickes Causa 15. q. 7. c. Si quia tumidus ex con 1. Carthag Hovv the Pope in old time might alter English lavves 3 Instance 1. H. 4. fol. 69. 76. 14. H. 4. f. 14. vide 20. E. 3. l. ass pl. 19. before vide 13. E. 3. Certificat 6. vide 20. H. 6. 1. 35. H. 6. 42. 7. E. 14. Fitz. Na. Br. 46. ff 14. H. 4. 14. Statut. de 2. H. 4. cap. 3. Ansvvere to the first To the second VVhence Bishops courtes haue their authority * Râ—portes fol. 8. 9. To the third The King may commaund the Bishop to doe his duty 4 To the fourth 4 Instance Stat. 6. H. 4. 1. The Ansvvere Against brybing in Rome and other like abuses The first instaâ—ce of the Attorney Stat. de 3. H. 5 cap. 4. The Ansvvere This statute maketh nothing for M. Attorney Statut. de 2. H. 5. â— 7. Lâ—llardy a â—olio For as Cockâ—e is the 〈◊〉 of the Corne so is heresie the destruction of true religion Statut. de 2. H. 5. c. 1. The Ansvvere VVhy teÌ„porall Iustices medled vvith Lollards VValsing in vita Heâ—riâ—s 5. VVhence the name of Lollards vvas taken The three conuersions of EnglaÌ„d part 2. â—ap 9. nu 31. cap. 19. num 34. 35. c. For in his booke of Acts and monuments pag. 419. â— H. 6 fol. â— 9 H. 6. fol. 16. 1 H. 6. 1â— To the first Bullâ— could not be promulgated vvithout the certificate of a Bishop To the second See Supra cap. 6. 3 to the third K. Ed. 4. raigned .12 yeres from 1460. to 1483. Syr Thom. More in â—it Richards .2 〈◊〉 â— Richard 3. raigned from 14â—3 to 1485. K Henry the seueÌ„th raigned from 1485. to 1509. to vvit 24. yeres All fovver Princes agree in our