ovvvne brayne vvhich they follovv defende and honour euen to the engaging of they re soules and hazard of aeternall damnation against all Scriptures traditions learninge and authority of all Saintes Doctors and the vvhole Church of God vvherein in deed they make a false God of theyr erroneous doctrine and priuate fancye M. Truely you haue reason for in the like sense Sainte Paul calleth couetousnes the vvorshippinge of idols because they preferre riches before God his glory but one thinge I vvoulde yet fain knovve of you for vvhat cause they vse to painte God the father like an ould Man and the Angels like younge men vvith vvinges and other garmeÌ„tes for I hope you knovve that they are spirites and haue no bodies D. I knovve it very vvell but God is so painted because he so appeared in vision vnto Daniel the Prophet Dan. 7. versi 5. D. Tho. in 4. d. 48. q. 1. an 1. partely to represent Gods antiquitie aeternitie before all other thinges created And the Angels are painted in that forme before mentioned to signifie theire beautifull and vigorous nature beinge allvvaies readie prest to goe and execute vvhatsoeuer God shall commaunde them as pure immaculate ministers of his diuine Majestie M. And hovv or vvith vvhat sinnes is this commaundemente broken D. VVith many and sundry offences but especially those that are contrary to the Theologicall vertues as infidelity desperation hate of God all Atheisme heresie scisme superstitioÌ„ ydolatrie vvitchecrafte sorceries and the like vvhatsoeuer is doeÌ„ by the helpe or inuocation of the deuill M. Vide Exod. 20 31 Deuter. 5. Leuit. 23. Isa 56. Hiere 12. act 20. Apoc. 1. Ignat. ad Phil. Hieron cap. 4. Galat. Aug. lib. coÌ„t Adim c. 16. Ep. 118. 19 ser 154. Leo. Ep. 81. But vve haue sayde enough of the first commaundemente tell me hovv must vvee keepe the second D. In not svvearinge except it be vppon necessity and that vvith truth and reuerence M. So that if a man svveare a lye or doubting vvhether it be true he sinneth mortally euery tyme D. So it is if he vse deliberation for it is a greate injury to God vvho is truth it selfe to call or invocate his holy name in testimony of falshood as by suche svvearinge is done M. And vvhy say you just and necessary D. Because although it be truth if it be not lavvfull and being true and lavvfull if not necessary it is still a sinne at least veniall to svveare at all M. But if a man svveare by our Lady or other Saintes by the Crosse or any other creature as a mans soule lyfe c. by breade drinke c. shall he sinne against this commaundement D. Yes doubtles because he that svveareth by any creature calleth it to vvitnes in the truth of his creatour vvho made the same and so in effecte calleth God to vvitnesse vvhich is to svveare by him vvhich kinde of oathe is more manifeste vvhen svvearinge by any creature is added the name of God allso as for example to say by this fyre or bread of God c. M. VVhat vvordes then may a man vse to affirme any thing to be beleeued D. I vvould say in truth or for certaine truely verely c. for these ar no oathes M. But tell me are vve forbidden all so by this commaundemente of blasphemie and breache of vovves D. No doubte as vvell allso as of oathes and vovves vvherein vve promise or purpose to performe any euill thinge or sinnes against Gods holy lavv for such oathes and vovves are better broken theÌ„ kepte yea vve are bounde to breake them And the same obligation vve haue of vovves made to our Ladie and the Saintes for they be vnderstoode as made vnto God thoughe referred to the honoure and glorie of our B. Ladie other his Saintes in vvhome he dvvelleth M. But doe you vnderstand vvell vvhen a vovve is made D. Sir as I take it a vovve is not euery purpose much lesse euery desire to doe any thinge but it is allso necessary that there be made there of an expresse promise vvith the mouth or at least vvith the harte and that of a thinge vvhich is good and pleasinge to God and therefore to be vvith diligence acomplished M. You say very vvell The third CoÌ„maundement Exodi 20. Leuit 18.24 Deuteron 23. Ps 12.33.75 Eccli 5. Ecclesiastic 23.27.23.27 Hieremi 4. Zach. 6. Matth. 4.1 Tim. 5. Iacob 5. tell me novv hovv you must keepe the third commaundement D. Accordinge as the Church hath determined vvhich is not to doe any seruile laboure on sunday nor feastes of Saintes and to heare a vvhole masse vpon such dayes and therefore likevvise vve should speÌ„de those dayes in prayenge readinge spirituall bookes hearinge of sermons and other vvorkes of pietie and mercie M. If on the feaste or holydaye there can be no seruile vvorcke donne hovv doe vve ringe the bells and dresse the meate and table vpon the sayde dayes for these are allso seruile vvorkes D. Sir it is true But this commaundemente is vnderstoode alvvayes vvith tvvo conditions The first if such forbidden vvorkes be not necessary vnto humaine lyfe The second if they be not necessary for Gods seruice as you see both those are that you haue named and besides these conditioÌ„s it is lavvfull to doe seruile vvorkes vpon the sunday or feaste vvhen there is licence of the prelate and cause sufficient M. Hovv commeth it to passe thaâ— the Christian people doth not obserue the sabbaoth or satterdaye as the Ievves did seingâ— the commaundement speaketh of the sabbaoth D. Because Christ our Sauioure vvith great reason hath chaungeâ— and translated the sabbaoth into the sundaye or dominicaâ— day as he did the Circumcision into Baptisme and the Pasquall lambe into the B. Sacramente and all other good thinges of the oulde testament into other better of the nevv and vvith as good reason doth the Catholike Church keepe the dominicall day in memorie that the creation of the vvorlde beganne on it as the Ievves they re sabbaoth because the sayde creation ended thereon besides that vpon the sundaye CHRIST vvas borne rose from the dead The fourth CoÌ„maundement Vide Deâ—ter 5. Eccli 34. Prou. 23. Tobiae 4. Rom. 13. Ephes 6. Coloss 3.1 ad Tim. 4. Amb. lib. 5. Exameron c. 16. and sent dovvne the holy ghoast vppon the Apostles vvhich three principall benifites of our Redemption are recorded in the obseruance of the sundaye M. And the fourth hovv must vve keepe it D. By doinge our duety to our parentes and elders as vvell spirituall as temporall and obeyinge our superiour in all honest and lavvfull matters M. So that our pastours and magistrates are included in this precepte allso D. So it is though especially and principally it be spokeÌ„ of our parentes to vvhom vve are bound by lavv of nature to serue and helpe in theyr necessity as on the other side there is no doubte but in vertue of the same precepte the parentes
Sancti Iacobus Basil Chrysostom in liturgiis Chrysostom hom 77. in Ioanâ—eâ— homili 18. in Act. Apost Cyprian libr. 1. Epiâ—â—l 9. Epiphan haeresi 75. D. Hieronym 1. ad Tiâ—â—â— Clem. Rom. Epistol 5. Ambros in Psalm 38. â— 1 efficior cap. 18. August libr. 9. confess cap. 11 1â—.13 since the beginninge of the vvorlde and for that our Sauiour ordained a better forme of religion then euer had been eyther vnder the lavv of nature or the lavv of Moyses he appointed allso and gaue vs the greatest sacrifice that could be possible vvich vvas him selfe in the Masse M. The Masse hath many partes in it tell me vvherein beginneth the true bodie and bloode of our Sauiour to be present D. Strayght vppon the vvordes of consecration vvhich is at the eleuation at vvhat tyme it is especially adored of all true Christians M. And vvho vvas the first that euer sayde Masse in the vvorlde D. Our Sauiour Iesus Christ in his last supper Vide Orig. homil 3. in variis Naz. orat in GorgoniaÌ„ Chrysost hom 24. in 1. ad Cor. homil 61. ad populum Antiochen Aug. in Ps 98. Amb. lib. 3. de Spiritu Sanct. cap. 12. at vvhat tyme he made his Apostles priestes gyuinge them povver and authority to doe the like and to make and teache others that should succeed them M. Hovv chauÌ„ceth it that this vvord Masse is not founde in holy Scripture D. Because the names of things are gyuen vppon sundry occasions and our fayth is not grounded on vvordes but in thinges and substance for in lyke manner neyther these vvordes Trinity Incarnation Consubstantiall and the lyke are to be found in holy vvritte yeat Christians beleeue coÌ„stantly these mysteries M. You ansvvere to the purpose but tell me may not those vvordes of our Sauiour vvherevvith he did consecrate be vnderstood by a figure D. The reall presence of Christ in the B SacrameÌ„t No sir in no vvise at all for being the most important mystery of all other vvhich euer he taught his Apostles if he had spoken by a figure he him selfe vvould haue expounded the same as he did many others of lesse moment besides that Mat. 26. Mar 14. Luc. 22. 1. Corint 11. Aug. Ep. 86. Châ—â—sost hom 17. Operis imperfecti Theâ—philact Be daâ—â—n 24. Luc Aug. lib. 3. de â—â—â—â—buaÌ„g 〈◊〉 2â— Tertull. â— 2 ad vxâ—r Cypr. serm de de lapsis Orige hom 13. in Exod. Basi ad CaesariuÌ„ Hieron in prolog coÌ„tra Iouin Euseb l. 6. bis c. 36. Ambro. in Satyâ— Theodoret in Theophili vita 26 Euagr. l. 4. c. 35. Aug. ho. 26 ex quinquinquinta Basil ad CaesariuÌ„ pat Cyril Alex. Ep. ad Calosci Euseb Emiss hom 5. de paschate CoÌ„c Trid. sess 13. can 3. ConstaÌ„tieÌ„ BasilieÌ„s the gospell maketh no mention of any such meaninge Thirdly the Euangelistes and Saint Paule all in one manner rehearse the vvhole matter vvithout any mention of parable or figuratiue meaninge vvhich in other occasions they doe very often as sayenge Quae sunt per allegoriam dicta that is vvhich are spoken by an allegorie or figure c. And lastly all men in their last vvill testameÌ„t speake as plaine as they can possiblye and you knovv vvell this vvas our Sauiours last vvill and testament vvhich he lefte vnto the vvorld and to his spouse the Church the night before he departed this lyfe neyther could he or Saint Paul speake any thinge more plainly neyther did euer any Doctor holy father or interpreter of holy Scripture doubte of this propre sense of our Sauiours doctrine excepte he vvere an heretike For allbeit some one father or other hath sayd that vvhen our Sauiour gaue his bodye he gaue allso a figure of the same to his Apostles yeat neuer any interpreted these vvordes in that manner vvhich is that vve here especially speake of Novv that the thinge it selfe may be ministred and yeat a figure it hath no contradiction as for example if the Kinge of Englande shoulde cause a comedie to be made of his receauinge to the crovvne and him selfe vvoulde play the Kinges parte it is manifest that one and the selfe same person shoulde be both a figure and the thinge figured the representer and the thinge represented vvhich in this Sacramente is allso manifeste Christe his bodre vvhich is reallye presente representinge the same bodye that suffered for vs and in the shape of bread and vvine signifienge the nourishmeÌ„te of our soules by his grace The ceremonies of the Masse Vide loca infra citata to vvhich end this Sacramente is chiefely ordained M. You haue sayde enoughe of this pointe of the reall presence tell me novv the meaninge of the ceremonies vvhich are in the masse Diony Eccles Hierarch c. 3. Iacob in liturgia Cle. Rom. l. 8. CoÌ„stit Apostolic Cypr. de caena duÌ„i Aug. Ep. 57. ad Dardan et ep 59. ad Pan. Bas ad AmfilochiuÌ„ c. 27. et in liturgia Cyrill Hierosâ—l catehe 5. Chrysost ho. 14. ad Ephe ho. 5. ad Colo. et ho. 36 in 1. ad Cor. ho de AdaÌ„ Eua. ho. 24. in Act. Apost et ho. 4 de dei natura hom 24 41. in 1. ad Cor. ho. 51. ad populuÌ„ Antioch ho 17. ad Hebrae Canones vetere DuraÌ„ in ration c. and first vvhy this Sacramente is ministred to the people vnder one kinde D. It is ministred vnto the people in such sorte first because Christ him selfe did some tymes so minister the same as in Emaus as allso the Apostles after him did as it is to be seene acto 2.20.27 c. Secondly to auoyde many inconueniences and perills of sacrilege vvhich by ministringe vnder both kindes often hapned our Sauioure hauinge lefte no precepte heerein but onely to priestes and benige certaine that vvhole Christ is vnder eyther kinde in the Sacrament the masse although it be sayde in short space doth represent the most high and vvorthy matters that may be euen since Adam vnto the ende of the vvorlde M. Tell me hovv and in vvhat manner and that vvith breuity D. In this matter for that the Church hath determined nothing there be diuers opinions of Catholicke Doctors but the more common interpretation it this first that the confession vvhich the priest maketh before he goeth vp to the altare as allso the Kyrie cleysons do represent the vvorld fallen by Adames sinne and cryenge for mercy M. But then vvhat doth the Gloria in excelsi Epistle and Gospell signifie vvith the Creede D. The Gloria signifieth the natiuity of Christ for then vvas it first songen by the Angels The Epistle doth represent the ould testament vvhence oftentymes it is allso taken and particularly the comminge of Saint Iohn Baptist The Gospel signifieth the comminge and preachinge of Christ and because the levves alvvayes refused to beleeue in him the booke is caried to the other side of the altare to shevv that the Church Gospell vvas translated
SacrameÌ„tes vvhich in deed they denie I vvoulde be glad allso to heare hovv you caÌ„ aunsvveare some fevv quaestions concerninge the same and firste hovv baptisme is ministred to children and infantes vvhich knovv not vvhat they receaue or take vvhen they are Christened D. Sir the reason heerof is the greate necessitye vvhich there is of baptisme because vvhosoeuer dyeth vvithout it or desire at least of it cannot enter into the Kingedome of heauen Io. 3. and because younge children are tender and in daunger to die vvith greate facilitie beinge not of capacitie to desire baptisme it is necessarie to Christen them vvith all speed possible and allbeit they knovv not vvhat they take the Churche doth supplye by they re Godfathers and Godmothers vvhat in them vvanteth vvhich is sufficiente for as by meanes of Adam vve fell into sinne and disgrace of God all though vve then knevv nothinge of it so God is contented that by meanes of Christes Churche and baptisme vve shoulde be deliuered from sinne and returne into his grace allbeit vve knovv nothinge nor thincke not of it M. And vvhat mysterie is there in it that in Confirmation the forehead of the partie confirmed is annointed D. Because as in baptisme by the vvater and vvashinge is signified that the grace of God doth cleÌ„se the soule from the spottes of all sinne so in confirmation by annointinge is represented the effecte of Gods grace vvich doth as it vvere annointe the soule to comforte and strengtheÌ„ the same againste the Deuill that therby he may vvith the more courage confesse the Catholique faith vvithout feare of any tormentes or death it selfe vvhen it shoulde be offered and therfore it oughte to be gyuen as soone as the childe is come to the vse of reason because then he beginneth to professe the faith and hath need to be confirmed and established in it allbeit vvhen this Sacramente for juste causes cannot be administrated as sometymes in greeuous persecutions of the Church it happeneth it is to be noted that this Sacracramente is not absolutelie necessarie to saluation M. And hath this Sacramente any other effecte D. It hath for it imprinteth in the soule of man a marcke vvhich the diuines call a Character vvhich can neuer be extinguished and is the cause vvhy this Sacramente can neuer be but once receaued as before hath been specified that as by the Character of baptisme a man is knovvne to be a Christian that is of CHRISTES familie so by this he may be knovvne to be one of CHRISTES souldiours vvhich allvvayes câ—â—e the coloures or badge of they re captayne vvherevvppon it follovveth that they vvhich after they haue receaued this Sacramente goe to hell shall haue moste deepe confusion for euerye one shall see that they had made profession to be souldioures of CHRISTE and yeat aftervvardes rebelled so dishonourablye againste him M. But tell me allso touchinge the blessed Sacramente of the altare hovv it commeth to passe that CHRISTE beinge reallye there yeat vve seeme to see small touche and taste the same bread or vvine that before as farre as sence can lead vs. D. TransubstaÌ„tiation You say vvell sence for reason faith and religion teach vs other vvise vvherfore allso this Sacramente is called of some the Sacramente of faithe aboue all other because no sence but that of hearinge Rom. 10. by vvhich faith is taughte vs hath any true judgemente of this mysterie no other vvise then by the Scripture vve knovv that Lots vvyfe vvas chauÌ„ged in to a piller of salte and yeat retained the shape of a vvoman and therfore as then in that mutation or conuersion vvas chaunged the substance of Lots vvyfe vvithin yeat remayned the figure vvithout so in this mysterie the invvarde substance of bread or vvine is truely chaunged and transmuted into the reall bodye and bloud of oure Sauioure and yeat remayne outvvardlie the figures and formes of bread and vvine as before vvhich allthough it seeme straunge especiallye in that pointe that so great a bodye or person shoulde stande vnder so small a forme and accidente as is that of the hoste consecrated yeat to Gods omnipotence nothinge is impossible Matth. 19. as him selfe sayde of a camell that God could make to passe throughe the eye of a needle thoughe to men it seeme alltogeather impossible and if vve reflecte vvith attention vppon the naturall actions of mans bobye and soule vve shall finde manie that vvill seeme no lesse straunge then this and manie effectes that be euidente though vve cannot vvell comprehende hovv they be doen as for example hovv so greate bodies as cities seas and mountaynes and the like in theire vvhole exteÌ„sion or greatnesse are compreheÌ„ded and lodged in so litle a compasse as a mans eye yea vvhich is more in the verie pointe vvhere the eye doth exercise his operation and in a mans memorie vve finde sufficiente roome and capacitie for a vvhole vvorlde vvhereat Sainte Austen himselfe did so vvonder D. Aug. libr. 10. confess admiringe Gods vvorckes so incomprehensible vnto vs. M. And coulde you gyue some suche other similitude vvherby it may be declared hovv the bodye of oure Sauioure may stande in so manye diuers places at there are hostes in diuers altares D. Trulye sir in Gods vvorckes it is not necessarie to vnderstande them but it is sufficiente to beleeue them for vve are sure that God cannot deceyue vs yeat can I gyue an example allso of the same for oure soule it is certayne that it is but one aloâ—e in the vvhole bodye and all the partes therof vvhole and all in the head and vvhole and all in the feet yea vvhole and all in euerie toe or finger and anie other the least parcell of oure bodye hovv then should it seeme incredible that God shoulde be able to doe that vvith the bodye of his soÌ„ne vvhich vve see he hath allreadie done vvith the soule in oure bodyes puttinge it in so manye so differente and so distante partes of the same and vve see in the same lookinge glasse vvherin firste vve coulde see but one vvhole sace after it is broken into an hundred diuers peeces it serueth beinge the same glasse to represente the same face and that all at once in an hundred differeÌ„te parcells and places and if you vvill haue an other example no lesse familiare then harde to be vnderstoode hovv it is doen the same voyce of a man that speaketh is hearde entyre and vvhole and receaued all at once into the eares of an huÌ„dred thovvsande persons if so many be presente M. But I desire to knovve of you allso vvhether vvhen Christe coÌ„meth into the hoste he forsake his place in heauen to come to the altare or remayne yeat in both places D. To this I aunsvveare that he remayneth in both places and neuer moueth from his place in heauen no more then the soule of a childe vvhich is yeat but a foote longe vvhen the same childe is become a man of fiue or sixe