vnlesse perhaps he hath blessed some of their youthes with the Sacrament of Confirmation how many of their soules he hath conuerted yea let them say whether euer he saw their faceâ— As for the Bishops Deputies the parisâ—h priests many of them are dumb by nature and cannot preach many are made dumb by their spirituall Lords power and silenced for disobedâ—ence so preaching wexeth geazon and people perish for want of Instruction In the mean tyme this painful Clergie feedeth the Lay weekly with their mattings Euensong and Homilies and sometimes in a year with sermon and reading the Bishops canons They discipline their notorious sinners with reading curses and Comminations out of the pulpit till the Lent penance which is much to be wished be restored agayn they solemnize the holy dayes of Angels and of Saincts they giue ech man the sacrament at Easter deuoutly vpon his knees they baptise with water and a signe of the crosse in the aâ—er they wed their parishioners with a ring teach the man to worship his wife in the name of the Father and of the Son of the holy Ghost they church the women after childbirth they visiâ— the sick and absolue him from all his sinns and howsel him with a Communion and last of all they bury the dead in sure and certayn hope of resurrection to eternall life And this is yenough for priests to doe in the country parishes but in the Cathedrall churches where Bishops Deanes and other great Doctors do reside there the Queristeâ—s and Organ-pipes make sweeter melody Mr. Bern. confesseth that the Lord onely prescribes the duties to be done in euery distinct â—ffice now he that knowes not these dutiess to belong to Christs ministers or these works to be a faythfull performance of ministeriall office let him read Mr Bernards book for there he hath quoted many scriptures the end of all which is to raise an euident proof of the truth of their ministery and administration as if one should cite the second commandement for to vphold idolatrie The effects of their administration in conuerting sowles is but a vayne boast as their idolatrous estate with the lamentable ignorance and profanenes of the people every where sheweth The reasons brought by others for Mr Bern bringeth none to perswade such effects are before in this treatise answered It maketh also against the estate of this church and ministery for if these preachers haue conuerted and wrought faith in some of their hearers then it followeth that before that conuersion they were infidels yet were they of the church and had this ministery set ouer them as all men know Which how it can stand with the râ—les of Gods word hath neuer yet bene shewed The example which Mr Bern. allegeth of th' Apostle 1 Cor 9.1.2 helpeth him nothing For Apostles were sent to conuert heathens but Pastors are set for to feed conuerted Christians And the Priests of England challenge to be Pastors I ween and not Apostles Agayn the work and seal of Pauls Apostleship was seen in Corinth by separating the beleeuers from infidels and gâ—therâ—ng the Saints onely into the communion of the church vnder the officers giâ—en of Christ but in England the vnbâ—leeuers and wicked were receiued and are reteyned in the church So that Mr. Bern. is but a â—alse Apostle as his work shewes if he be any at all But in the end he tels vs we forget to iustifie the lawfulnes of our own ministers who are made â—iâ—istâ—rs â—y sâ—ch as are no ministers contrary to the constant practise of the church of God from the dayes of Adam hitherto c. In which dispute Mr. Bern. teacheth playn apostasie from the Gospell unto Poperie from whâ—ch he deriueth the minâ—stery of his church of Engl. For seing all the examples that he allegeth from scriptures are of Diuine persons and approued ministers of the true church and comming to his church of England he fetcheth her ministery out of the Popish church and from the Prelates thereof it cannot be if his last words agree with his first but the poâ—ish church is a true church and their prelates true ministers Otherweise hâ—s reasoning is absurd to say God ordeyned Adam Moses odeyned Aaron Christ ordeyned the Apostles the Apostles ordeyned orther mâ—nisters in churches therefore Antichrist of Rome his synagoâ—ue of Satan hâ—s eldest sonâ—es the Prelates must or may ordeyn miniâ—ters in the church of Christ. If this be a good consequence let al men iudge if â—â—â—s it be not then Mr. Bern. holdeth the popish church and the â—opish ministers true ministers and so himselfe and his church of England must needs be schismatiks for leauing that church of Rome When he hath cleared himselfe of this his absurd doctrine then if he cannot see that the church of Christ hath power to ordeyn her own ministers it shal be shewed hâ—m by the scriptures Tâ—ll then what should we do folowing of a wauering reed whome we cannot tell by his writing whether he be Papist or Protestant And that the reader may see into what an intricate Labyrâ—nth the ministers of England haue brought themselues about this matter of their ministery by writing as they haue doâ— both of the Papists and of us I will set down a Papist argument against them from which how handsomely they can defend themselues I would fayn see There came out in anno 1602 a book called A detection of diuers notable vntruthes c. wherein the author hauing to deal wit Mr Sâ—â—cliff who as he sayth had reasoned thus The true church is a societie of faithfull people vnder lawfull Pastors c But the Church of Rome hath long wanted true Pastors and Bishops for the Romish Bishops haue no authority â—r missioÌ„ but froÌ„ the Pope to whome also they swear feally but he hath no authority to send them or ordeyn them â—eing himselfe no Bishop c. This argumeÌ„t of Mr Sutcliffs the Papist retorteth vâ—oÌ„ theÌ„ thus The true church of Christ hath alwayes true Pastors and Bishops but the English Congregation wanteth true Priests and Bishops Therefore the English congreagation 〈◊〉 not the true church of Christ. The fiâ—st proposition sayth the Papist he must not deny being of his own making c. The 2 proposition is apparant according to Mr Sutcliffs diuinity For most certaine it is that their first Bishops receiued their orders and consecration from our catholik Bishops as his brother Bel confesseth Suruey pag. 201. And the thing it selfe speaketh seing when Lâ—ther begun there was not any protestant Bishop or Priest c. And if Mr Sutâ—liffe dare deny that their Bishops were câ—nsâ—cratedlâ— ours then let him name who they were that did lay hands vpon Mr Parker the first of Cant. that deriued not their mission authority and consecration from the Bishop of Rome Certayn it is thâ—t â—yther none at all can be named or els none bâ—sides therefore if our Bishops be
of al men by that word if men eyther will not trie nor giue sentence at all or doe judge amisse we are not bound to wayt vpon them but must liue by our own faith The reformed churches haue been wrâ—â—ten to by vs for we know and acknowledge them to be true churcheâ— and our brethren in the Lord they giue vs no Answer Shall wee coÌ„tinew still â—n boÌ„dage to Antichrâ—st til they bid vs com out What scripture teacheth vs so If they or any convince vs of error or evill and we yeeld not leâ— vs be esteemed accordingly otherwise if we walke in the truth and they will not approue it be it vpon them as they shal answer befâ—re the Lord. Mr. Iunius whom you mention to reply so sharply neyther approueth your Church nor condemneth our practice no not though he were instantly vrged the writings between him and us are extant to the world let the reader judge what both sides haue sayd Your censure of Mr Barrow or scoffing rather at him neyther hurteth him or vs nor helpeth you His playn dealing in reprouing the corruptions of these times you call rayling it is marvel you say not also the prophets rayled on the people of Israel when they vsed sharp rebukes for I suppose you can hardly shew any hard speech that Mr. Barrow ther writeth which the Prophets and Apostles haue not vsed before But if he were overcaried with some seuere speeches in a good cause‘ neyther we not himselfe euer iustified that infirmitie we know that we are frayl men let the sharpnesse therefore be his but the trueth which he sharply teacheth Gods And why carp you at the manner of his writing and meddle not with the matter That book with others haue discouered the idolatries of your church which neyther by you nor any haue euer yet been answered refuted by the scriptures For your self let the reader iudge what you â—aue sayd The 7 Consideration 7. THe great and grosse disorder and partiallity in administring of your disciplinâ— which George Iohnson sheweth cheerly besides the wants of sunctimony and common duties of godlynes which he sayth are to be found in farr greater measure in the câ—mmâ—n professâ—rs of the church of England and saith further that the Dutch churches take you for a most vnquiet conâ—entious and disorderly people Answer THis article you obiect vnto vs vpon one mans report that was for lying and slandering false accusation and contention himselfe cast out of our Church By what rule or word of God can you admit of the testimony of an excommunicate against a whole congregation Reason also might teach you that no man standing against a church to excommunication will ever speake wel of that church in the cause wherein he standeth But grant that this all were true which he reporteth what would you vrge vpon it that therefore Christianitie which we professe is evill so perhaps a Turk or Iew would doe with as much reason as you can conclude that our separation from you is euill Was there ever any truth think you that men did walke in it as they ought or any Church in the world wherein the discipline as you call it was administred as it should Iulian the Apostata that wrote so much against Christ reading the testimonies of Moses the Prophets and Apostles Deut. 9.7.22.24 Isa. 59 3 4 5 c. Mic. 3.9.11 1. Cor. 5.1.2 11.21.22 c. 3 Iohn 9.10 had as good ground to blame the Israelites and Christians for their manners discipline and consequently to disswade them from their faith as you do vs yea he might allege faithfull and vndeniable witnesses whereas you rely vpon a slanderer Finally what ayme you at in all this but to draw vs back vnto your church and there it is like we shall find discipline without disorder or partiallity to weet in your Bishops courts for there the discipline of your church is to be seen Of which we need say nothing the voyce almost of al the land crieth out of their abominations Onely we obserue how pregnant your perswasions are to make vs beleeu that because there ar sinns in Sion there be none in Babylon The 8 Consideration 8. GOD neuer witnessed for you nor gaue testimony of his approuing your separation whether we consider your ministerie or people For hardly can you shew any one person conuerted by your ministery from papistry or atheisme or other open wickednes as by Gods blessing multitudes haue been by ours but onely haue you seduced and wrought vpon the tender consciences of such as by our ministery were first begotten vnto Christ But which is specially to be obserued from your distracted and devided congregations multitudes haue fallen away to euery kind of impiety herisie reigning in the world Answer IF God approue our seperation and our ministerie by his word as we are surâ— he dooth it is yenoâ—gh though our ministery haue not conuerted any Your reason is as if a Câ—inite should haâ—e sayd vnto Nâ—ah God neuer witneâ—sed for thee nor gaue testimony of his approuing thy building of the Ark for hardly canst thou shew any one person converted by thy precahing or Ark building these 120. yeares Our ministery belongeth to our church the assemblies whereof Papists Athâ—ists such like wicked ones vse not to frequent and how is it poâ—sible â—ur ministery should conuert such as come not to heare it If we wâ—â—ld obiect vnto you that few Turks and Saracens haue been converred by yâ—ur mâ—â—isterie what would you answer Yet where you say â—e can harâ—ly shâ—w my c. we can if need wer shew you many that wer sometime profâ—in irreligious whiles they were of your church but coÌ„mâ—ng and heâ—râ—ng by Gods providence the doctrine of our church haue been reclâ—ymed from their lewd life doe walk holily in the faith with vs. It is true in â—eed that our cause hath wrought most vpoÌ„ such as being somtimes vnâ—er yoâ—r ministery had tender consciences pliable to the truth others of more corrupt consciences haue set against blasphemed it Tâ—e â—â—â—â—ideratioâ— of this in any wise mans iudgment wil rather lead vnto â—hen â—rom our cause when the better sort by your own confession do come vnto vs the worser and refuse remayn stil with you Your last poynt which you would haue specially to be obserued that multitudes haâ—e fallen from vs to every kind of heresie and impietie is indeed worthy to be obserued For first the scripture is fulfilled which sayth mâ—ny shâ—ll â—leaue vnto them faynedly Dan. 11.34 Secondly being fallen if they had com to a more holy faith better walking wheÌ„ they were gone out from vs it might haue importeâ— ours to be evil but now that they haue fallen to grosse heresie impietie it argueth Gods hand so be heavy vp on them because they continued not in the truth with vs. And this the scripture confirmeth saying of such as receiue not the loue of the truth
answer I may err iudgment so may others even whole churches therefore let euery man look how he iudgeth and how he deâ—endeth on other men and let evey mans â—udgment be tried by the scriptures For this cause we say vnto you seing we haue fought for the judgement of other churches but can get no answer procure you some reasons from them in defence of your church ministerie worship and ecclesiasticall gouerâ—ment and if by Gods word they can justâ—fy those things and evince that we haue done evil to depart from you we will returne vnto you Otherwise if they reioyce neuâ—r so mâ—ch for your estate we are verâ—ly perswaded that both they and you haue more causâ— to mourne for the many abominations that are amâ—ng 〈◊〉 To conclude consider in an example the weight of your argument for by the like reâ—son the envious ministers in Pauls time mought thus haâ—e justâ—fied themselues That mâ—nisterie and ministration for which the Apostles of Christ reioyce is true to be obeyed and continued in But our ministery and minâ—stration is such as for it the Apostle Paul reioyceth yea and will râ—ioyce Philip â— 16.18 If you Answer the Apostle reioyced for the preaching of Christ not forthe envious affection of the preachers who might be damned themselues notwithstanding their true doctrine it is true And so minde I for the reformed churches They reioyce for the many truthes you profesâ—e against Popery as we also doe the like yet may you neverthelesse perish for your false constitution idolatrous worship popish hierarchie and other transgressions that are among you Amend your liues therefore and turne your feet into the wayes of peace for if you rely vpon man anâ— make â—lesh yoâ—r arme and will not heâ—r the word of the Lord that condemneth your iniquities you shâ—ll perish in your sinns other châ—rches shall not be able to excuse of sâ—ue you ARGVMENTS That the PREACHERS of the best assemblies of the church of ENGLAND are true ministers of Christ. I THâ— prâ—achers after whose publick powerfull doctrine of the word do ordinarily follow repeÌ„â—ance conuersion to God sauing fayth in Christ loue to the brethrâ—n and oâ—heâ— fruits of the spiâ—it Gal. 5 6 22. in the hearers are true ministers of God and of the visible châ—rcâ— But â—fter â—he dâ—ctrine of Gods word taught by the preachers of our best asseâ—bliâ—s doe ordâ—narily appear the fruites of the spirit in the hearers Thâ—refore thâ— preachers of our best assemblies are true ministers of Christ. The â—roposition is proued because onely the word that God doth send in the 〈◊〉 oâ— his ministers is ordinarily effectuâ—ll for these things Ier. 23 22 Esa. 55 11. Mat 7 20 Luk 1 76 Ioh. 10.1 2. 1 Cor 9 1. â— 4 15. Thâ— assumption is proued by the answer to the assumption of the 4 argumeâ—◠〈◊〉 thâ— churcheâ— Answer OVR separation is from your Church consisting of many assemblieâ— all compact into ore bodâ—e and from all your Ministerie both prelacie and priesthood We cannot tel which assemblies or ministers be best for they that seem best may proue worst because they most deceiue the simple the wolf that comes in a sheeps coat is no whit better than he that commeth in his natiue hiew but he may doe more harm in that he is disguised Reason would perswade vs that the Bishops are the preachers of your best assemblies for they haue greatest dignity fatherhood and authority in your church they preach in the highest and most honorable assemblies of the land they are most carefull to obserue their oath of due obedience to keep the canonâ— orders lawes and ceremonies of your church and set themselues against such as secretly vndermine the state of the church and ministerie of England yet openlie stand members and professed friends of the same They and their assemblies are best ordered after the constitution and lawes of your church So that to speak as I think I know not which assemblies be best where the Leven hath sow red the whole lump though I can guesse which you doe mean but plain dealing about your ministers and asâ—emblies would haue beseemed you best Tel vs therefore when you next write what ministers you mean whether the Bishops Deanes Doctors c. that are in the cathedrall churches or the Doctors and Diuines that are in your vniuersities or thâ— Parsons Vicars Lecturers that are in your Parishes Again what Ministers they be whither Apostles or Prophets or Evangelists or Pastors or Teachers for all these are ministers Eph. 4. and meet it is to know your meaning for though Apostles and Pastors be both ministers ordeined of Christ yet if one will say everie Pastor is an Apostle he is but a liar So you see it is needfull that we ransack these your ambiguous and generall termes Now for your argument first I answer to the proposition that though these fruites you mention doe many times follow the doctrine of Christs ministers yet not theirs onely nor alwaies Not onelie because other men that are not in office of Ministerie may by excercise of their gifts work such fruites as appeareth 1 Cor. 14.1.31.3.24 25. c. I appeal also to your selues whether you thinke not that your best ministers though silenced or degraded from all ministeriall office may not when they teach work repentance fath and other fruites of the spirit Neither doe these fruites alwayes follow the doctrine of true ministers for Noah preached 120· yeares yet followed there not faith and repentance in the old world Christ himselfe preached to Chorazin and Bethsaida yet left the woe vpon them and complaineth in Esaias that he had laboured in vayn among the Iewes and of Israel it is said All the day long haue I stretched out my hand a disobedient and gâ—ynsaying people To reason therefore from the effects this man wrought faith by his teaching therefore he is a true minâ—ster or this man wrought not faith by his teaching therefore no true minister is vnsound and vnconcludable by the scriptures The â—roofs of your proposition being examined wil be found to light for your purpose if you mean that the officers doctrine onely or alwayes is effectuall for these thinâ—s to weet repentance faith c often I know it is and alwayes it hath effect eyther to life or death in the hearers Your scriptures are Ier 23 22. which sheweth what true prophets should labour to doe namely to turne sinners from their evill way c whereas the false prophets did otherwise Eze 13 22 but proueth not that the prophets onely did this for the Priests and Levites did it also Mal 2 6 yea priuate men may often turne their neighbours from evill Leu 4 27.8 19.17 Prou. 31.26 Mal. 3 16 Mat. 18.15 Iam. 5.19 20. neyther proveth it that the prophets alwayes did this for Esaias crieth Lord who hath beleeued our report Isa. 53.1 and it is written that the Lord testified to Israel by all the Prophets
of the archangel Michael Boniface the 8. shewed like honour to the 4 Euangelists and many other memorable gests are recorded of the Fathers of the See of Rome whereof there is not a word in the Testament of Christ that he or his disciples did euer the like For they appoynted not priests apparall long gownes tippers 4. horned capps as did Pope Zacharie nor a white linen surplice at seruice time as did Pope Syluester 1. They hallowed no Temples or Churches as did P. Hyginus nor Churchyards as did P. Calistus 1 Neyther ordeyned ringing of bells to call the people to diuine seruice as did P. Sabinian They appointed no Rood-loft to part the Chancel from the church as did P. Bâ—niface 2 nor hallowed Font to Christen in or Godfathers and Godmothers at baptisme as did P Pius 1. and Hyginus They commanded not the people to goe procession as did Pope Agapetus 1. nor appoynted any Bishoping or Confirmation of children as did P Clement 1. with a great number more of like pranks vsed in the Romish seruice which Christs Apostles knew not as their writings shew But the church of Engl. as next heir of Romes constitutions reteyneth these reliques obserueth these rites and a many moe for which the Papists doe insult and say that from their treasure house the religion now established hath learned the forme of christening Marrying Churching of women Visiting the sick Burying and sundry other likâ— as the books translated out of theirs doe declare And now what sayth Gods law for all such things vnto his people I am sayth he the Lord your God After the doing of the land of Aegypt wherein ye dwel shall ye not doe and after the doing of the land of Canaan whether I will bring you shall ye not doe neyther walke in their ordinances My iudgments shall ye doe and my ordinances shall ye keep to walke in them I am the Lord your God Thus he forbad them not onely the worship of false Gods but euen the imitation of idolatrous worship rites and ordinances in his seruice wherfore he charged them againe that they should not so much as inquire or ask how the nations serued their Gods that they might doe so to the Lord their God But whatsoever he commanded them they should make heed to doe it putting nothing thereto nor taking ought therfrom Yet the Bishops and Priests of Engl. haue almost all things in their Leiâ—ourgie according to the doings of that spiritual Aegypt the Romish church wherein they dwelt and haue imitated her worships‘ orders ceremonies c. reteyned her ministery prelacy courts and canons thâ— Latine being turned into English and some grosse superfluities left ouâ— And in defense of this worship haue these godly ministers written Mr Bernard published their work wherein if the reader see not a soâ—nd proof of the things that Mr Barrow whose errors they pretend to confute reproued he must impute it to the badnes of their cause which wil scars admit of any colour from the booke of God For besides the abuse of holy scriptures alleged to iustify these popish stratagems how sound diuine or rather how fond and corrupt is the reasoning of these men from Gods example and authority vnto their own practise and power that because the Lord God gaue formes of blessing prayer and psalmes to his people as the scriptures which they cite doe shew therefore their Lords the Prelates may giue them also prescript words for blessing prayer and Psalmes c. as is to be seen in their seruice book Can we thinke that Ieroboam had so slender a reason for his goldeÌ„ calues Why doe not these men also plead that God gaue a law by Moses therefore ther may a law be giuen likewise by the Bishops or th' Apostles wrote a new Testament therefore the Conuocation house may also write a Testament or Gospel bring it into the church If the Prophets practise will bear them ovt in the one I see no cause why it may not vphold them in the other Wel seing neyther Mr Gifford heretofore nor these ministers now can bring better defense for the work of their own hands wherewith they worship or rather prouoke the Lords I leaue them to consider of those lawes that euery where cry ovt against and shew the punishment of idolatrie Neyther is it needfull to keep the Reader with longer answer seing Mr Barrow in the fornamed books and Mr Greenwood in a peculiar treatise against these stinted prayers and seâ— worship haue proued the vnlawfulnes of them by many reasons which neyther these ministers nor any other haue yet taken away And when they write agayn let them not bring proofs for things that we deney not as that Daunds Psalmes may be sung in the church and that in our prayers we may vse or apply the words that other holy men before vsed in their prayers vpon like occasions both these we grant and practise but let them proue if they be able and their right hand can help them that their own writetnn prayers psalmes c. may be read and sung in churches churchâ—â— as Gods true worship and then also they may command the clowdes to rayn no more and may cause to cease the bottels of heauen Like to their former plea and maintenance of their seruice booke is also their answer for Catechismes as for Homilies it seemes they leaue the the defense of them to the simple priests that read them but Catechismes are vsed euen by the learned preachers therefore somewhat they say for them as that the principles of religion were taught in the churches of old RoÌ„ 2.20 6 17.2 Tim 1 13 Heb. 5.12.13 14 and 6 1.2 But these ministers are eyther simple or very deceitfull so to turne away from the question For we neuer deneyed that the grounds and heads of Christian religion should be taught to the people far be it from vs but this we say the Prophets and Apostles are not found to prescribe set words for the minister to teach or the people to answer being examined And that therefore these Bishops and Priests are very presumptuous that wil take vpon them to doe that which Christs Apostles neuer did in the churches Agayn that if those men of God had to done yet seing the writings of Prophets and Apostles are canonicall scriptures and so are no mens writings now it will by no meanes follow that if they wrote catechismes to be vsed in the Church therefore men may writ some for like vse now Yea rather why are they not content with that which is already written in the scriptures but run to erroneous catechismes of humane writers such as is that authorized catechisme in the book of common prayer commanded to be vsed in the church of England Hauing heard what these godly ministers say for their people and seruice book I exspected somewhat also for defense of their own minister and the ecclesiasticall gouernment of
ministerâ—e they are nâ—â— onely against vs but against themselues for theyr own Câ—â—rches consist of â— separated and voluntary people wheras yoâ—rs are coâ—fused and compelled they condemn and haue reâ—eâ—ted the hierarchie and ministerie of Archbishopâ— Lord bishoâ—s c. Prâ—ests Parsoâ—s Vicars c. which are yet among you and haâ—e amonâ— them anâ—ther ministerie Now how they can apâ—roue of two sorts of Churches mâ—nâ—sterâ—es so contrary one to another let them look to â—t 5. It seemeth to me you are verie lauâ—sh in your praise which now vaunt so of the aâ—probation and reioycing of al the â—ure reforâ—ed Churches in the world whereas heretofore you complayned that you had all the bâ—st refâ—rmed Châ—râ—hes throughâ—ut Châ—istendom agâ—inst you Agayn the Harmony that you mention was set forth but by the French and Belgick churches the things that they approue among you are certayn general heads of religeon which a Bâ—shop wrote in an Apologie of your Church most of all which heads we our selues also approue and reioyce for But the controuersies between you and vs touching the gathering and constituting of a Church the manner of divine seruâ—ce the form of Church government and the like are eyther not at all or in very generall termes set down in that boâ—ke and so uerie slenderly if ought at all by them aâ—proued or reioyced for To giue an instance or two in the tenth section of that Hâ—rmony treating of the Châ—rch your English confession is so shorâ— and in generall words I doubt not bâ—t the Pope himselfe will subscribe vnto it letting him haue his own interpretation In the 15 section of Ecclâ—siasâ—icall meâ—tings you speake of prayer in the tongue which all yoâ—r people vnderstand Now because the Reformed churches approue of thiâ— we must take it belike that they approue of your Leiturgie and service book also and al your publick worship though it be not set downe fâ—r any to judge of In the 16. section of Holy day's fasts c. there yoâ— wriâ—e agâ—inst purgatory which being put into the Harmonie iâ— ynough as seemeth to proue that other châ—rches approue of al your Pope holy-dayes and festiuals The lâ—ke may be minded for other poynts as in the 17. section for ceremonies things indifferent which being approued of and reioyced for by all the Reformed churches in the world the Prelatâ—s wâ—l haue a shrewd hand against you that are called Puritans for standing so much against the ceremonies of your Church as you do· And for your minâ—stery I marveil you say not that it is approued of and râ—iâ—yced for of the Pope also for in the 11. section of that Harmony you beleeue these orders and degrees of ministers in the Church 1 Deacons 2 Priests and 3 Bishops which orders wehther the Reformed Churches approâ—e of or no I am sure the Counsel of Trent doth and hath decreed If any shall say that in the Catholik Church there is not a Hirarchie instituted by diuine ordination which consisteth of Bishops and Priests and ministers let him be â—ccursâ—d Concil Trident. Sess 23. Can. 6. But now seeing not onely the Fathers of the Counsel of Trent but all reformed Churches in the world as you sayd doe approue of and reioyce for this your ministerie I hope the Bishops and hirarchie of your Church shall no more be preached writen against by your inferior Priests as many a day they haue been as being Antichrâ—stâ—an Thus may you see what a weak foundation you bring for your church and ministerie and if we lyfted to fight against you with your own weapons we could allege many things from the persons whome you cite against your present church and ministery but the word of God yeeldeth vs armour ynough for this battell against you as in due tâ—me through his grace shall be seen 6. In the meaÌ„ while it shal not be amisse to put the reader in mind how your selues heretofore haue iudged and written of your ministerie which you say it is approued of and reiâ—yced for of all the pure reformed churches in the world your ministers being as before is noted Deacons Priests and Bishops Of the Deacenship you haue written that it is a meer humane institution a degree to the Priesthood and nothing like to the ordinance of God Of Priests c. that they cam from the Pope as out of the Troian horses belly to the destruction of Gods kingdom Of the Bishops c. that you account them no natural members of the body of Christ church becauase they are of humane addition not borne with her nor grown up with her from the cradle Agayne that they be rather members of the strumpet of Rome then of the spouse of the Lamb c. And haue not you the reformed Churches great cause now to reioyce for this ministery 7. Moreouer consider you also how we may allege that now 10. yeares sithence we have published our Confession of faith and causes of our separation from your Church and ministery to the learned Vniversities of the Reformed churches with desire if in our faith or practise we erred that they would shew it vs but to this day we know not any that haue vndertaken so to doe wherefore we also may suppose by their silence that they approue our case or at least suspend their iudgments and condemne vs not 8. Finally it is written in one of the scriptures that you quote the spirituall man iudgeth all things but he himselfe is iudged of no man 1 Cor. â— 15. Now every true Christian is a spirituall man Gal. 6. 1. 1 Pet 2.5 therfore he may judge and discerne by Gods word and spirit faith from here sie and the true church from the false he may see with his eyes liue by his own faith and not depend vpon other men to liue walk in sin till other churches condemne it Let every man therfore retayn his liberty and take heed how he iudgeth 4. THe onely wicked Paâ—ists Athâ—ist and most ungodly ones are aduersaries to our godly ministers and people The godly in all placâ—s and times among vs by them alone anâ— ordinarily haâ—e been conuerted vnto Christ and by them approâ—ed reuâ—renced and obeyed alwayes in the Lord. Answer 1. IF the onely wicked be adversaries to your Godly ministers and people it perteyneth not to us who hate none of you bâ—t wish well and pray for you al euen for our persecutors we are aduersaries onely to the sinns corruptionâ— that are among you whiles we reproâ—e you for â—inne you should â—udâ—e that we loue and hate you not as the law teâ—cheth We say therefore with the Apostle are we become your enemies because we â—ell â—ou the truth Gal. 4 16. 2 The Atheists and wicked oneâ— that so hate your godly ministers and people are theâ— not also mâ—â—bers of yoâ—r owne Church So then your church is diuided against it selfe and you are aduers one to another And why tel
not the discipline nor teach their people to keep and obserue the same yea they blame us for practâ—sing Christs lawes withouâ— the Magistrates leaue as if Christ wer not head of the church Prince of all the Kings of the earth Again they administer not their doctrine sacraments and discipline as this realm hath receiued neither reuerently obey their Ordinaries but resist preach and write against the Bishops their canons rites and ceremonies as much as they dare Thus halt they between two opinions and practise neither the discipline of Chrâ—st nor of the prelâ—tes whiles yet they would seem to practâ—se both being in this poynt like to the Saâ—aritans which whiles they would both fear the Lord and serue theâ—r images also they neither feared God nor did after their orâ—inances as the scriptures sayth What then may we esteem of your ministers pâ—wer and authority in teaching Aâ—aine câ—nsider you if some Absolom Adoniaâ— or other vsurper should say I haue 1 sanctification 2 knowledge 3 spirit of dâ—scerning 4 of â—tteraâ—ce 5 of power and authoritie in iudging 6 effectual ordinâ—rie decidind ending of controuersies c therefore I am a lawfull King Iudge or Magistrate and God hath giuen witnesse by these vndâ—â—bted testâ—monies of the truth of my Magistracie whether this â—lea woâ—ld serue him or these testimonies approue his office yet are these most â—regnant proofs of your Minâ—stery 6. The 6. and last testimonies is their effectual ordinary calling and bâ—getting to the faith of God c. This I haue before touched and shewed that ordinarily they beget not but hinder the true faith they keep the people in blâ—ndenes and idolatrie whâ—ch is a worke of darknes and of the flesh and if by their preaching any be brought to the true faith I account it Gods extraordinary work which I doubt not but is also aâ—oÌ„g the Papist Againe if this were granted them I would know what office they would claym iâ— the church hereby whether Apostleship of some other function For in the Church of Corinth were many teachers and instructours yet begat they not their â—eople to the faâ—th for the Apostle Paul challengeth to be their father only and to haâ—e begotten them in Christ through the gospel 1. Cor â— 15 So there may be a lawfull Pastor or Teacher in a church which neuer begat any of them to the faith but onely nourisheth and increaseth faith in them that were begotten afore He is chosen to feed the flock 1. Pet. 5. â— not to begett the same the flock is a company of faithfull people begotten before they haue a Pastâ—r The begetting of faith was first and chiefly by the Apostles and Evangâ—lâ—sts that went about preachâ—ng the word to them that had not heard it Rom. 15 20.21 It â—s also by the ministers of churches or prophets though not in office of ministerie whâ—n vnbeleeuers come into their assâ—mblies 1 Cor. 14.24.25 It is also by all Christians priuately meâ— and women which preaching and witnessing the truth of the Gospell reading talking conferring of the scriptâ—res doe conuert many unto God informe their children and families in the faith and saue their soules Act 8.4 18 â—6 1 Cor. 7.16 Eph. 6 4. Deut. 6.7 Sâ— the begetting of faâ—th is no certaine testimony of a true Minâ—sterie Whereas therefore you conclude that your Ministery begat us also if ever we werâ— trâ—ly begotten in thâ— spirit we may answer yov with Moses â—e take to muâ—h vpon you yâ— sons of Levi. For know you not the wind bloweth where it liâ—teth and you hear the sound thereof but cannot tâ—l whence it commeth or whether it goeth and so is euery man that is borâ— of the spirit It seemeth you count nothing preaching but that which is in the pulpit nothing the word of God but that which commeth out of your Ministers lips but thanks be unto God that hath giuen vs better to discerne the worke of his grace and hath breathed vpon vs with his holie spirit whiles your Ministers stood lik the 4. Angels in the corners of the earth holding the windes that they should not blow The 6 Consideration 6. ALso our godly people haue all the marks and tokens of Gods people and elect 1 which the scriptures set downe 2 which the people in the timâ— of Christ and his Apostles had 3 which the professors of any church that is now in the world haue 4 yea which your selues in your supposed perfection can boaâ—â— of which is sealed vnto them 1 by the care peace and testimony of a good conscience in all things 2 by suffring for sundrie parts both of righteousnes and 〈◊〉 3 by effectual comforts in such sufâ—rings 4 assâ—rance of faith of hope of remission of sinns Gods dear loue vnto them 5 by spiritual loue and thâ— fruits thereof 6. by the progresse and daylie growth in knowledge strength and godlinessâ— c. Answer THAT many of your people are Gods elect I vndoubtedly acknowledge and I would to God such were the estate of you euery one Yet the constitution of your people in your church is not a Communion of Saincts with which we may participate but a confuse mixture of all sorts of men from which the godly must separate as touching the worship of God In this your defence of them you begin thus Our Godly people Buâ— who ar they can we tel are not al your people godly of the true church it is written thy people shal be al righteous if your people be not such why make you not a separation from the vngodly that will not be reclaymed or why cast you them not out from among you Thus ought you to doe by the Testament of Christ. 2. Cor. 6.14.17 1. Cor. 5.13 If you doe it not you profane Gods everlasting couenant I deny not but many hypocrites and reprobates wil creep into the true church and much vngodlinesse will their break out as in any assembliâ— in the world but when it is seen the sinner is presently to be reproued and eyther must purge himselfe by repentance or be excommunicate Luk. 17.3 Mat 18.15.16 17. Thus still the church continueth a comâ—union of Saincts an vnleauened lump a holy nation 1 Cor. 1 5. â— 1 Pet. 2 9. Now for your works and tâ—kâ—ns you say they have all 1 which the scriptures set â—râ—w This is denied and had you searched the scriptures you might easilie haue seen it otherweise For They are not a separateâ— people called out from the world which is oâ—e prâ—ncipal â—ark as before I haue shewed vrged often in the scriptures 1. King 8 53. Isa. 52 1â— Ier 15.19 Ioh. 17.14.16 Reu'18 4 They are not the Lords free people injoyâ—ng the libertie of the gospell but in thraldom to strange Lord aâ—d lawes ecclesiastical Contrary to Lâ—uit â—5 42.55 1 Cor. 7. â—3 Ioh 8 32 36 Gal. 5 1. They walk not in the truth of the gospel but in many things ar corrupted with
had appoynted to be King after him Was not Aja a godly King and good reformer of the church yet was he wroth with Hanani the Seer and put him into prison onely for speaking vnto him the word of the Lord. What weight is there then in thiâ— your cavil that our affliction are by Christian magistrates therefore out cause is evill Good princes may be ouer caried eyther by their own affections or by the suggestions and prouocations of other men And if you will not yet see your folly mind this for your selues that you which 〈◊〉 called Puritans are molested imprisoned persecuted and note not by hethen and Antichristian tyranns but by your own Christian magistrates and Bishops professing and maynteyning the gospel of Christ. Ergo eyther your cause or your argument is naught Your last poynt is partly false and partly friuolous for Mr. Harrison returned not vnto your church of England but died at Middleburgh in this faith that we professe Mr. Smith Crud and some others which never were officers much lesse pillars in our Church did indeed forsake their first faith and died soone after with what comfort themselues now know But what if many more had forsaken vs yet the truth of the gospell which we professe shall stand Christian religion was at a low ebb when so many went back that Iesus sayd to the twelue will you also gee away Yet Christianitie still flourisheth and shall so long as the moone endureth And we with comfort doe behold that though many bad ones haue gone away yet God bringeth better in their place dayly The 3. Consideration 3. NOte your dissentions between 1 Brown and Harrison 2 Brown 〈◊〉 Barron 3 Barroâ— and Francis Iohnson 4 Francis and George Iohnson 5 â—r Iohnson and Mr. Slade that great scholler 6 Chaphâ—n and others aâ—out Anahaptisme nay none of your great Rabâ—ines but haue grosly disagrâ—â—d disagreed among themselues It piâ—ieth vs to see your poor congregation how lamentably it hath been rent with mutuall dissentions bitings and deuouring of echâ—ethers whâ—ch doubtlesse is no 〈◊〉 â—f the spirit of God These are not lies but matters known and they are matters horrible and strange Answer IF you were an Atheist or Pagan as you professe to be a Christian you mought in this maâ—â—r reprâ—ch the church of God â—uer since the world began saying Note the dissentions â—etween Kain and Abel Cham and Noah Esaw and Iaacob Ioseph and the Patriarches Moses and the Isralites Moses and the Leuites Moses and his â—wn sister and brother Gedeen and the men of Ephraim of Succâ—th and of Pennel Abâ—melech and his brethren Iâ—phteh and his brethren Beniamin and the other triâ—es of Israel Saul and Dauid Dauid and Absalom the ten tribes and the two from Ieroboams times and after the Pharisees Sadducees in the Iewish Church the Apostles of Christ the dissâ—ntions in Corenth and the other Apostolike Churâ—hes These are not lies but matters knowne and râ—corded in the scriptures and they are matters horrible and sâ—rangem So then if your proposed Câ—nsideration be of weight to turne vs from our present faith because of the dissentions that haue been among vs the like consideration â—nought turne vs also which God forbid from all faith and religion make vs as very Atheâ—sts as a many of your church already are And indeed wher unto leadeth this manner reasoning which you vse bâ—t vnto Atheismâ— For if an Infidel â—hould mind religion mought he not be kept back by considâ—râ—ng the dissentions in faâ—th between Painims Iewes Mahometists and Chrâ—stians and a Iew or Turke be kept from Christianitie because of the disâ—entions between Protestants Papists Arians Anabaptists and other sects many Yea are not the Papists at this day hindred from true religeon by noting as you doe the dissentions between Luther Zwinglius Calvâ—n c But it seemeth all these were farr from your consâ—deration or if you minded them yet were they but motes in your ey they be our dissentions ours onely that trouble you It pittieth you to see our poor congregation how lamentably it hath been rent c. but you are hard-harted and take no pity belike on your own Church which you so highly commend vnto us though dissentions for discipline that I speake not of other matters haue been so great that you haâ—e not onelie preached printed on against an other now many a year and that in verie bitter and hostile manner but also persecuâ—ede imprisoned fought the blood on of an other Wel howsoeuer we haue indeed just cause to lament that by our dissentions you and others haue taken occasion to blaspheme the truth of God yet herin haue we comfort that such things must be amongst us as the Holy Ghost saith that they which are approuued may be known And you if by no meanes you will learne the estate of a Church here on earth where it is in continuall warr with the Serpent and his seed but stil you think these things horrible and strange take heed you stumble not at the stone Christ to your distruction haue your abiding in that house which the strongman armed keepeth and the things that he possesseth are in peace Luk 11.21 The 4. Consideration 4. YOur chiefest teachers cannot as yet determine what the discipline iâ— that they would haue as what the difference is between a Pastor a Doctour whether Apostates ought to be admitted to office in the church c. Answer 1 THere is no such dissention among vs touching these matters as you would here insinuate though if there wer yet our imperfection and difference in iudgment sheweth that we are weak men but no whit preâ—udâ—ceth the truth we professe 2 The heathen Philosophers in the Niâ—oean Synod obiected the like against Christians that they agreed not in opinion among themselus Sâ—zomen lib. 1 cap. 18. 3. Your selfe heathen-like may obiect against Paul and Barnabaâ— twoo of the chiefest teachers of Christian religion one of the two things wherewith you here doe reproach vs because they not onely could not determine whether Iohn Mark who had before departed froÌ„ them should accompanie them in the work of the Gospel but were so stirred that they departed asunder one from the other Act. 15.37.38.39.40 4. You might much better blame your owne Church and chiefest teachers that cannot as yet determine what the discipline is that they would haue witnesse your long continued controuersies in print wherein what adoe you make about discipline all the world knoweth If your selues would walke better in the truth peace and concord of the gospel you might wiâ—h more equitie find fault with us pul therefore the beam first out of your own eye The 5 Consideration 5 THE Lord hath also testified against you by giuing over very many people 1 to Atheisme 2 carnall life 3 Papisme 4 Anabaptisme 5 Ariâ—nijme 6 Familisme which are
not slanders but matters known to all that are acquainted with the course and state of your Church Answer ALl this being true it sheweth the badnes of some men not any badnes in the faith we professe An infidel might haue obiected vnto Israel as you doe here The Lord hath testified against you by giuing ouer ouer very many of your people to Carnall life Sedâ—mitrie Peorisme Bautisme many other idolatries with strange Gods The Papists may and doe obiect the like things to your selues at this day much more iustly then you do to vs. For when any such haue appeared among vs we presently cast them out if they repented not whereas with you such are stil reteyned in the bosome of your Church yea such hereticks and vicious persons as we haue excommunicate you doe entertayn as is knowen to all that ar acquainted with your estate Wherefore the Lord hath testified for vs not against vs whiles by the light of his word such hypocrites haue been discouered and avoyded but you are condemned by your own doctrine whiles such miscreants and flagitioius persons are kept in your communion The 6. Consideration 6. THE churches and godly learned persons that euer heard of your separation did not approue of it which was the quarrel that Fr Iohnson had with Mr Iunius and he sharply replyeth on him Nay Mr Barrow plainely rayseth at Caluin and the Geneua church and euen at al churches in Christendom in his Discouerie and counsels not with other reformed churches about their separation but Answers as Mr Iohnson doth the word is neer vs we need not go ouer the seas to seek it as if the Spirit of the Prophets were not subiect to the Prophets and himselfe as the Pope had infallible rule of inâ—erpretation of the scriptures in his brest Answer THE strength of this reason is quelled before in the answer to the third of your first Considerations thither I refer the reader Further I answer here that you teach such doctrine as standeth not with Christian freedom or truth whiles you would forbid vs the profession and practise of the Gospel til we haue consulted with and be approued of other persons and Churches For though I grant ther is a good use of aduising with other Churches if conueniently we can eyther when cases are difficult or when in any respect it doe concerne them yet that in all matters of religioÌ„ ChristiaÌ„s should be bouÌ„d thus to walke when the finne to them is euident which to other Churches not wel acquainted with their estate is not so perspicuous this were to abridge Christian liberty and to bring our consciences in bondage vnto men that though God forbid vs al communion with idolatrie yet we may not separate vnlesse they approue it It is contrary to the word of God which teacheth vs that Gods commandement is not hid from his people neyther is far off not alost in heauen nor beyond the sea but in our mouthes â—â—rts to doe it But you to deceiue your reader allege this as if it were Mr. Bâ—rrows or Mr Iohnsons reason and not the doctrine of Moses and of the Apostlâ— The colâ—â—r that you bring for your selfe is that saying of the Apostle the spirites of the prophâ—ts are sâ—biect to the prophâ—ts 1 Cor. 14.32 which scripture considered by the words and circumstances of it will in no weâ—se proue your purpose Fâ—r first it may be qâ—estioned whether the meaninâ— be that the spirits of the prophets are subiect to other prophets or to thâ—mselves For the Prophets among the gentiles such as the Corinthians naturally were were sâ—bject unto caried and ruled by their spirits and not their spirits subject to them so that they could not choose but sâ—eâ—ke as Sâ—bylla wâ—tneâ—seth of her selfe neither could they lin or cease speaking when they would themselues yea and in holy scripture we see how Balaam prophesied good to Israel and bleâ—sed when he would haue cursed thâ—m Saul also and his messengers prophesied as it were by constreynt being ouermastered by the spirit soo as he could not coâ—teyn himselfe buâ— stripping off his clothes propheâ—â—eâ— all that day and all that night when he had no purâ—ose thus to doe Now therfor where as the Apostle here had ordeyned that if any thing were reâ—eled to another that fare by the first prophet should hold his peace because almight prophesie one by one if any should allege that they could not hould their peace but must speak so long as their spirit moued theÌ„ he telleth them that the spirits of thâ— prophets are suâ—iâ—ct to the prophets so intimating that they may if they will giue others leâ—ue to speak shewing also a reason hereof because God is not the author q of confusion but of peace And if thus wee understand the Apostle his words make nothing for that you say Vnto this also may be added that he speaketh this affirmatâ—uely they are subject and not by way of ordinance let them be subject as els where he vseth and as other things in this place are spoken as Let the prophets speak Let the first hold his peace Let women be silent But be it granted which I will not deny that he meaneth their spirits wer subject to other Prophets because when they had spoken others were to iudge yet those oâ—her were the Prophets of â—he same church and there present not in other churches For Paul meant not that the spirits of the Prophets in Corinth were subiect to the prophets in Rome or Iudoea and so must send to them for approbation but appoynteth like order in this as was in all other the Churches of the Saincts And if they were bound as you would haue us to send and submit to other churches and others likeweise to them then no Church hath no power in iâ— selfe to aprâ—â—e of her prophets or Ministers or of their doctrine without the good likâ—ng of others Which how farr it is from the Apostles mind I leaue it for the dâ—screet reader to judge neither thinke I but your owne brethren will distaâ—t yâ—â—r so collecting from this place Howsoeâ—er they doe it is verie like if you had liued in Ahabs dayes and should haue heard 400 prophets at once prophesying good vnto the King and Micaiah onely prophesying evill you would with Zidkijah haue smitteÌ„ him on the cheek as now you do vs in reproch told him that his spirit must be subiect to the prophets especially they being so many and he but alone But if it were further granted vnto you that we must be subiect to the prophets of other churches yet I suppose you wil not deny but al prophets and churches must trie and iudge euery thing by the word of God according to which if any man speak not his iudgment is not to be regarded And we haue offred and doe still offer our doctrine and practise to the triall
that they might be saued that therefore God wil send them strong delusion that they shall beleeâ— lies and of such as depart from the faith that they shall giue heed vnto spirits of errors and doctrines of Diuils It is also to be obserued that al such impious hereticall persons as haue departed from vs are interteyned with you in your communion vnlesse themselues refuse to communâ—cate with you your church is the receptacle of al sâ—ch Apostataes there they are suffred in herisie impietie so as they wâ—l frâ—qâ—eÌ„t your assemblies Better reasons therfore more weithty câ—nsidâ—rations haâ—e you need to allege before you can perswade vs to returâ—e vnto your church for these hitherto propounded examined are found too too lâ—ght But it may be better follow ARGVMENTS That the best assemblies of the present church of ENGLAND are true visible CHVRCHES 1. IN what churches soeuer are found in publick practise the things that essentially constitute a true visible church they are true visible churches of Christ. But in the best of our assemblies are found in publick practise the things that essentially constitute a true visible church Therefore the best of our assemblies are true visible Churches Proof of the assumption A visible church is the house of God 1 Tim. 3.15 Now the meanes or things that constitute it are 1 Foundation Iesus Christ to build vpon 1 Cor 3.11 Mat 16.18 2 Builders that is such preaching ministers of the word as doe build in godlynes convert and confirme 1 Cor 3 10. 3 Instrument of building the word of God Eph. 2.20 4 Matter to be built people ioyned togither in the profesion of the Gospel 1 Cor 3.9 Eph. 2 20. But all these are found in publick practise in the best of our assemblies Therfore in the best of our assemblies are found in publick practise the things that constitute a true visible church Answer THE title of your arguments conteyneth 1 an error or absurditie 2 argueth some check in your own consciences for defence of your Church 1 The error is that you divide the church of England into many Churches making the first as I conjecture a national Church the other parishionall This is an error because it is an humane inuention and differeth from the scripture which sheweth many churches to be in a nation or country as in Iudea Asia Galatia c Gal 1 2 21. Reu. 1.4 but sheweth not any natioÌ„al church Now that yours is a national church not onely the name and title but also the constitution sheweth for it hath a Pastor over it the Archbishop of Canterbury Primate and Metropolitan your most reverend father in God who maketh and consecrateth the Diocesan Bishops wherevpon there are Diocesan churches or Sees and they agayn make the Parish Priests To him and to his successors the inferior Bishops haue sworn so help them god through Iesus Christ. all due reverence and obedience If the mould of this Church were not fetched from Rome shew where you learned it 2. The check which the title argueth to be in your conscience appâ—areth apâ—eareth it that you plead but for the best assemblies of the present church of England for doe you not hereby intimate that there is a worser sort which you will not plead for yet both bâ—st and worst are all one body one church and communion If your Church of England be Christs why maynteyn you not the whole is not every â—art and parcell of Christs church to be defended Thinke you that the priests and people of Israell would haue mainteyned the Most holy place of their Temple onely haue suffred the rest of the howse to be ruinate and troden vnder foot or if they did thus should they haue done well How persidiously then doe you deal with your church if it be the true church of Christ that you seek to vphold your Sanctum sanctâ—rum your best assemblies and neglect the rest Or if you would make one peece of your church Christ and another peece Antichrists where both be in brotherhood and vnitie togither it is as absurd as if you would make one part of your bodie humane an other bestiall one peece Gods another Diuils It is contrarie also to the playn scriptures which say what communion hath light with darknese â—hat concerd hath Christ with belial meaning none at all Eyther therefore you must iustify your whol Church or you must with vs make a separation How long will you halt between two opinions To your Argument I answer the proofs of your assumption fayl you A visible church you say is the house of God True but your Bethell will be found Bethaâ—en the houâ—e of Idolatrie You make the things constituting your howse to be fowr 1 Foundation 2 Builders 3 Instruments 4 Matter But the forme or fashion of the building you leaue quite out perhaps you saw that it would not endure the trial when it should be compared with the patterne that God shewed in the Mount The Prophet Haggai reproued the Iewes for that Gods house was not builded amoÌ„g them If you had beeÌ„ ther. you would have disproued the Prophet by this sophistrie We haue the 1 Foundation laid Hag. 2.9 2 Builders we haue many both priests and people 3 Instruments also for to hew and square the timber and stone as axes c. 4 and matter wherewith to build as wood from the mountain and stone from the qarrie Therefore though the stones be neither laid nor squared nor the timber hewen fitted or framed because with vs are found the things that essentially constitute a visible house we haue the true house of God But if your own material houses were no otherwise builded then your church is by this your argument you would haue but an vncouth dwelling If you read Gen. 11. you shall find the towr of Babel to be as wel builded as your church for there was the 1 Foundation laid 2 Builders many 3 instruments also 4 matter both brick and slime Now let vs examine the things which you say you haue and doe buâ— barelie say for you proue it not 1. The Foundation is Iesus Christ to build vpon 1 Cor. 3.11 Mat. 16.18 But this Foundation is not yet rightlie laid in your assemblies you haue it onelie in name and shew Christ is neer in your mouthes but farr from your actions If you had shewed by the scriptures how Christ is laid for the foundation of the church it would soon haue bene seen that your house is set vpon the sands For you haue not him for the mediator prophet priest or king of your church as it is now established Many truthes I acknowledge are taught among you but many vntruthes are also mixed with them and the power of godlines is denied for the truthes that are taught cannot be practised Your church hath also other spirituall Lords and lawes then Christ and his testament as your Prelates with their cannons
force If your people were truelâ—e regenerate they would not sinne mâ—stike me not I know the remainders of sinne dwell in the best men and draw them to that they neyther would not ought but as thâ— Apostle sayth He that is borne of God sinneth not And seing so many and great sinns reign in your best assemblies how can you say you are regenerate for I haue before manifested that ordinarilie people are kept and continued among you in an vnholy communion with the wicked and irreligious and nourished with sâ—perstition and idolatrâ— these and the like things are no tokens of true regeneration Mr Iohnsons confession is before treated of and will not import that which you would infer The causes and meanes ordeyned by God to beget faith are not by Esa 55 11 Râ—m 10.17 proued to be among you For there is spoken of the word going out of the Lords mouth but your minâ—sters are not the Lords mouth because they haâ—e not from him their calling sending and authoritie to preach bâ—t haue it from his enemie Antichrist and as the Apostle saith how shal thâ—y preach except they be sent Neither are they as the Lords mouth because they separate not the precious from the vile Ier. 15 19. Neyther are the infallible effects of faith c. proued by Gâ—l 5 6 â—2 to be in the true members of yâ—ur best assemblies For seing faith is there sayd to work by loue and there is no loue of Christ vnlesse men keep his commandements and his commandâ—ments are not kept in your idolatrouâ— assemblies it cannot be affirmed that you loue the Lord if so you contineâ— continew in sinne or that you haue true faith But rather seing the contrary works of the flesh which the Apostle there mentioneth adultery fornication c idolatrie witchcraft hatred c. contentions seditions heresies c. are found in the true members of your church for all among you are baptised and all baptised are true members you are more rightly to be reputed vnregenerate and vnsanctâ—fied in that your sinnfull and confused estate Neyther haue you Christs power in your best assemblies to cast out the wicked from among you but they are fostered fâ—d and blessed with your word prayers sacraments c. and such as absteyn from your idolatrie and from communion with the wicked you hate reproach excommunicate and persecute that your church is indeed a mother to the profane But a stepmother to the faithfull The 6 argument THose Churches for whome the Churches of God reiâ—yce are true Churcheâ— 2. Thes. 1.4 But our best assemblies are such for whome the churches of God reioyce Ergo. The reason of the proposition is because the churches of God haue the spirit of discerning a true church and ministery from a false as Ioh 10.27 5. Maâ— 24 24 1 Cor. 14 32. and 10 15· 1 Ioh. 4 1· The assumption is true because all the churches of God reioyce in our best assemblies and haue giuen vs the right hand of fellowship and testimony of a truâ—â—hurch hauing ioyned our publick confession with their Harmony Answer THIS argument is one and the same with the third of your first Constlerations saue that it hath gotten the fashion of a syllogisme The in sâ—fficiencie of this reason I haue there shewed and thether doe referr the reader Further here I answer that you turne the testimony of the reformed churches to your best advantage yet neyther with equitie nor good successe For they joy not for your best assemblies more then for your worst but for your Church in generall and the confeâ—sion of the same They rejoyce for every Bishop Priest and Deacon and for every Parish that maketh such confession as Bishop Iewel in his Apologie hath set down Part of which Apologie they haue vnited with their Harmâ—nie And why bring you them as approuing your best assemblies onely Your Lords the Prelates may truely say you doe them wrong to apply vnto your selues the applause which other churches giue to their Apologie They wil tel you in your own words the churches of God haue the spirit of discerning a true church and Ministery from a false But the reformed â—hurches haue discerned the nationall church of England whereof the Archbâ—shop of Cant· is Pastorâ— to be a true church they haue discerned the Diâ—cesan Bishâ—ps in England as well as the Parish Priests to be true Ministers and reioyce as well for their Sees as for yoâ—r Parishes hauing joyned these all alike in their Harmony And what will you that suffâ—r sâ— many things for sepâ—rating in yâ—ur châ—rch as yoâ— sâ—yd answer to your right reverend Fathers against whome like vnnaturall children yoâ— hauâ— striven so long and would have them with their jâ—risdâ—ctâ—on â—ut out of your church thâ—t the Pâ—râ—sh priest or Deacon mâ—ght Lord it alone More particularly I answer yoâ—r first propostion is vnsound cannot be proâ—ed from the scripture you allege 2 Thâ—s 1.4 from which text yoâ— must conclude on this faâ—hâ—on Pâ—ul and Siluanus and Timotheuâ— reioyced of the Thesalonians in other churches of Gâ—d because of their pacience and faith in all persecutions c. Therefore the reformed churcheâ— reioycing for the church of England it must needs be a true church The conseqâ—ence is denied True churches may err in their judgment of an other church especialy if theâ— be not rightly informed of the statâ— thereof as the reformed churches are not by that your Apologie Moreover he that mindeth the things recorded of that church 1 Thes. 1 3 6 7 9 c. and the different estate to be seen in your church may soon perceiâ—e their is no lâ—ke cause of joy for you â—s for them that if there be a lâ—ke effeâ—t it is in error The reason of the proposition is no better confirmed by the scriptures you allege For when Chrâ—â—t sayth Iohn 10 27 5. Mâ— sheep hâ—ar my voyce and they will not follow a stranger doeth he send his sheep to other flocks to try their shepheards by or if I see my shepheard to be a thâ—ef a hireling a wolf mâ—st I commit my sowl vnto hâ—m because other shepherds wâ—ll giue him the right hand oâ— fellowship In the other scriptures say nâ—t the Apostles to the particular churches and persons iudge ye what I saâ— try ye thâ— spâ—rit and beleeue not euery spirit But you would not haue our selues to iudâ—e or try but to send over sea and hear what other churches iudge if they apâ—roue we must not disalow You may as wel bid vs. put out our own eyes that other men may lead vs and as soon will we follâ—w you in that as in this your popish counsell We have learned to liue by our own faith and know that every man shall beare hâ—s own bâ—rden and answer for himself to God But you will tell vs if we can iudge and discerne the true church others can doe it also and better I
Anwser THe assumption or 2 part of your argument that such are the Ministers of your best assembliâ—s is denyed for these reasons 1 In Ephes 4. it is sayd He that is Christ gaue but your ministers are giuen by the Bishops and for disobedâ—ence to them are taken away agayn from your parishes Christ never gaue such hirelings 2. The ministers mentioned in Eph. 4 are Apostlâ—s Propets Evangelists Pastors and Teachers Your minâ—sters are none of these but Priests Parsons Vicars c. whose very names besides their offices calling c. shew them to be from Antichrâ—st 3. Your ministers gather not the Saints but persecute and scatter them as we know by experieÌ„ce they gather or keep being gathered a coÌ„fused idolatrous multitude svch as is in their parishes the right way of gathering a church by separation from the world they know not or will not acknowledge 4. They doe not the work of Christs ministery which is aright to dispense the word seales censures c according to the scriptures but the work of Antichrists ministery in reading the service book marying burying churching of women the like as in your Leiturgie other church books are set down 5. They edify not the body of Christ but build and fortify the tower of Babel their confused assemblies which were constituted of ignorant idolatrous papists and other profane the very body of Antichrist but the way of truth and such as walke therein are evill spoken of by your Ministers as their books sermons conferences c dayly shew For all which reasons the right conclusion of your argument should be this that the ministers of your best assemblies are the ministers of Antichrist To proue your assumption you giue vs your bare word saying they do gather the Saints from the reprobats making a manifest separatioÌ„ c. This is to proue the same by the same they doe so because they do so wheras all the world may may see they doe not so For the church of Eng. and parish assemblies thereof from which we haue departed consist of all sorts of persons the ministers stand priests by law to the whole parishes whereof all are partakers of the holy things of God every one baptized c. and can you say they are not then builded in and with your church And for separation we know your priests nor the whole parish cannot excommunicate any be they never so blasphemous wicked or licentious that power is in the Bishops courts And how few are excommunicated for their heresies blasphemies atheisme or wicked life who knoweth not but for wel doing you haue excommunicated many And further if any of your ministers should goe about to make a separation or gather any other churches or assemblies then are already by the lawes of the land established and allowed they are ipso facto excommunicated by force of the Canons of your church made in Anno 1603. Can. 9 11 1â— So still the open wicked remayn edified with the rest in your church there is no such separation as you against all mens knowledge doe pretend Your argument therefore is no better then as if Ieroboams priests should thus haue pleaded Those priests that teach Iacob Gods iudgements and Israel his law that put incense before the face of God and and bâ—rnt offrings vpon his alter are the true priests of God Deut 33.10 But these things doe we therefore we are true priests If you say their assumâ—tion is false the like is sayd of yours and your works plainly proue your assumption most vntrue The 4. Argument THose ministers by whose ministery and preaching the overthrow of the kingdome of Antichrist is effected are the ministers of Christ. But such are the ministers of our best assemblies Ergo the true ministers of Christ The proposition is proued 2 Cor 10 4 5.2 Thes 2.8 Reu 14.6.7.8 18 12. 11 3 11. The assumption is manifest for that the ministers of our best assemblies haue weakned and thrown down and doe still fâ—ght and prevayl against the kingdom of Antichrist by the power of Christ 2. Thes 2 8 and Satan cannot cast out Satan Mark 3.23 Answer THere is no cause or person so bad but many haue store of such arguments as you bring for your ministers wherein you assume take for granted that which is most needful to be proued if we wil not beleeu your bold affirmation contrary to our knowledge and the truth of your estate your ministery hath nothing to justify or confirme it The assumption of this argument I deny for your ministers haue not throwen down Antichrists kingdoâ—e but sought rather to hold it vp Here in sted of due proof you tel vs it is manifest for that the ministers of your best assemblies haue weakned c the kingdome of Antichrist Thus again you prou the saâ—e by the sain say that is manifest which is most obscur vnknown uÌ„to vs to discouer your falsehood I wil briefly shew how the scriptures that you bring for your propositioÌ„ do disprou your assumptioÌ„ The weapons of our warfare sayth the Apostle 2 Cor 10 4 5. are not carnall but mighty through God to cast down holds casting down the imaginations and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God c. But the weapons of your ministers warfare haue been carnal not mightie through God For against the remaynders of Antichrists kingdome among you they haue sued to Parliaments that the arm of fleâ—h might throw down the prelates their courts and corruptions but when the state hath not hearkned to them what haue your ministers done but submitted themselues to their spirituall Lords or at least weise ceased their warfare against them and in their sermons and writings haue turned the edge of theâ—r sword against vs that haue departed from Babylon And what haue they throwen down by their preaching these half hundred yeares Is there any of their Romish abuses that they haue got reformed any one of the rabble of Antichristian officers courts canons c. cast out of the Church Nay themselues now are caâ—t out if they speak or write any more against them as they did in times past Doe not all their people stand still in subiection vnder that Leitourgie prelacie priesthood and popish ecclesiasticall gouernment which were set ouer them at the first They haue warred with the Antichristians as did Israel with the Canaanites when they were mixed among them and learned their works and serued their idols which were their ruine Therefore are these enemies become thornes to the sides and pricks to the eyes of your best ministers and people vexing them in the land wherin they dwel as God did threaten Num. 33 55. So when th' Apostle sayth 2 Thes 2.8 that the Lord shall consume Antichrist with the spirit of his mouth and abolish him with the brightnes of his comming may we not hereby learne that Gods spirit is not in your ministers mouthes seing they
ground whereby thou maist good reader iudge the better of that which shal be sayd Yet mean I not to handle this poynt at large which in so many other writings thou moyst profitably read but onely to obserue such principall things as may giue light vnto the simple who many of them mistake this doctrine of the Churâ—h and erring once are â—y seducers further led astray The Lord reduce all hiâ— that erre and stablish his seruants in the truth for euer THis our English word Church through custome of speech is commonly vsed for the Temple or place where people come togither for the worship of God but they that are any thâ—ng excercised in religion know that it also signifieth the People which gather togither for diuine service and this is the â—irst and proper meaning of the word Churâ—h as it is vsed to expresse the originall scripture termes Kahal and Ecclesia 2. This name Church we English men which câ—me of the Saxons haue receiued from the Saxon German and Duitch cames Cyriâ— Kirch Kerck whereby those nations now doe vsually call their Temples or meeting-places but the people which come togither in them they call the Gemeine and the Gemeinte that is to say the Communialtie we in our first English Bibles called it the Congregation 3. As all religion is learned out of holy scriptures so the name and doctrine of the church is from thence to be deduced and there the Church is called in Hebrew Kahal or Kehillab which signifieth a Convocation or Assemblie of people and Ghnedah that is to say a Congregation in Greek it is named Ecclesia that is in like manner a Conuocation or people called forth to an assembly and sometime Synagâ—gee that is a Congregation which word is also vsed for the place whereâ—n the people assembled 4 The Hebrew word Kahal is diversly vsed sometimes more generally for a great or vniuersall multitude as of nations and of peâ—â—les sometymes more particularly for an aâ—â—embly of one nation as of the Israelites somtimes for apart of them as the Elders and Gouernours or some of the tribes of Israel apart or some of all the trâ—bes euen men women and children and indifferently for any assemblie and this not only of Gods people but of heathens also infidels 5. Likeweise the Greek word Ecclesia is of as large extent and signification vsed sometime for the church â—enerally sometime for a particular church or congregation in a citie sometiâ—es more â—articulaâ—ly in a house or family sometimes in the Greek version of the old testâ—ment for an asâ—embly of Governours or company of Prophets or congreâ—atâ—on of the people and finally for any asâ—embly lawfull or vnlawfull of good men or of evill 6. These words thus genreall are in more speciall sort both by the scriptures and by vse of speach among all religious peoâ—le restreyned and applied to such Assemblies and congregations as are called and gathered for diuine excercises and so our English name of church is attributed peculiarly to spirituall or religious assemblies called ecclesiasticaâ—â— and not to any other assemblies ciuill or polâ—tâ—call 7. Of religious or ecclesiasticall assemblies generally considered there ar many sâ—rts in the world all disalowed of god saue one sort onely which he acknowledgeth to be his and hath separated to himself from all the rest 8. The many false sorts may be reduced vnto fowr 1 The asâ—emblies of Pagans or heathen people which profesâ—e some God Gods or Goddesses whome they doe worship ignorantly hauing chaâ—ged the truth of God into a lie and so seruing creatures not indeed the creator which is blessed for ever Amen 2 The assemblies of Iewes who professe the true God after a sâ—rt and allow the writings of Moses aâ—d the prophets bâ—t abhorre Christ Iesus our Sauiour and reiect the new testament 3 The aâ—â—emblies of Mahomisâ—s as Persians Turks Moores c. whâ—ch professe also after their manner that one true God of whom Moses and the prophets wrote and acknowledge Chrâ—st to be a Proâ—het sent of God yea and the breath or sâ—irit of God yet beleeu â—hey not that he is God or the sonne of God or sauiour of the world but follow the lies and fablies of their false prophet Mahomet 4. Finally the churches or assemblies of false Christans which professe God and â—iâ— Sonne Christ into whose name they are baptised but by theâ—r works doe deny him and by their erroâ—rs and heresies doe overthrow the truth of relâ—â—ion 9. The 1 thrâ—e sorts Pâ—gans Iewes and Mahometists becaâ—se of theiâ— so open and manifest dâ—ny all of Christ and saluation by him are generally generally of Christians reputed as no Churches the laâ—ter are reâ—uted no true but false churchâ—s and so also doe they esteem of true Christians and one of another Herevpon is continuall controuersie beâ—ween true â—nd and false chrâ—stians which is the true church and how it â—ay be knowen 10. To help the weak and doubtfull in this case I will so truely and plainly as by the grace of God I can describe the trâ—e Church which in the holy scrâ—â—tures is called the Congregation and churâ—h of God consisting of godly and holy peoâ—le named Saints opposed to the wicked or malignant churchâ—s the Synagoues of Satan 11. The true church is a people called of God by the Gospell from the world vnto the communion or fellowshiâ— of his sonne Iesus Chrâ—st in whome they are coupled and built togither to be the habitation of God by the spirit 12 The church is said to be a people nation or generation because it consisteth of many persons or of a mâ—ltitude little or great for though a particular Christian is called and of the church yet no man is a church or congrâ—gation 13. It is a people called because every concourse or assemblie is not a true church none of themselues can come vnto this estate vnlesse they be called or drawen therevnto and they are sayd to be called of God because he onely calleth and draweth men vnto Christ with a holy calling and addeth them to his church no humane power or authority â—s able to doe it 14. The Gospel noted to be the the meanes of our calling he maketh knowen vnto his people outwardly by his word spoken and written and inwardly by his holy spirit and thus the Church are all the taught of God 15. The state out of which the Church is caled is sayd to be out of or from the world whereby is meant first Satan the Prince of this world from whose power they are turned vnto God secondly the wicked people of the world called the children of the Diuill from whose communion and fellowshâ—p in their religion and all other wicked actions
such wretches or any way admitting them vnto his body or the communion of hâ—s Church And for his arch-enemy the Romane Antichrist and his adherents the Lord Iesus Faithfull and true that iudgeth and warreth righteously he with his heauenly warriours after him fighteth with that Beast and with the kings of the earth that make battel against him and is so farr from peace with them as he giueth vnto all the fowles of heauen for to eat the flesh of the Kings hie captayns the flesh of mighty men and of horses and those that sit on them the flesh of all freemen and bondmen of small and great and casteth the beast into the lake of fyre By this may appear that Christ is no head of such Antichristians nor of any other profane wicked worldlings seing his spirith giues them not life and motion but they are caried by the spirit of Satan that possesseth them and warred against with the sword that commeth out of Christs mouth neyther can they be knit vnto him by ioynts or bands as al his body and members thereof ar consequently that the Popish and profane multitude of the Realme of England which at Q. Maries death were made and esteemed a Church and they and their seed euer since without separation so continewing and at this day al the notorious wicked stâ—ll commingled with the rest that this Church cannot be sayd to haue Christ for the head neyther is it his body Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God EVery true Church of God hath Christ for the mediator and Aduocate of the same For it is written there is one God on mediator between God man which is the man Christ Iesus and if any man sinne we haue an Aduocate with the Father Iesus Christ the iust Neyther is there saluation in any other for among men there is giuen no other name vnder heaven whereby we must be saued Act. 4.12 But the Church of England hath not Christ for the mediator and Advocate of the same Because Christ is not Mediator of any other couenant or testament then that which God promised by his prophits to make with the house of Israel nor of any other people then of such as are vnder that couenant promised which was g that he would put his law in their inward parts or mind and write it in their harts and be would be their God and they should be his people and that he would forgiue their iniquity and remember their sinns no more Of this new testament or couenant established vpon better promises then was the old is Christ the Mediator as the Apostle teacheth and not of any other humane or profane couenant made by or among the sonns of Adam Now that the Church of England as it is publickly and generally constituted is not as yet come vnder this covenant may appear by the â—articular conditions of the same First let the exceeding profanenes and irreligion irreligion that is among them the open contempt of God blaspheming of hâ—s name despising of his word and innumerable wicked acts without fear or shame committed besides the idolatrous false worship performed by all in their publick assemblies according to their stinted popish leitoargie learned and receiued from the Romane Antichrist let these I say and the like speake to euery christian conscience whither Gods law be written in the mind or inward parts of such which is one part of the coâ—enant whereof Christ is Mediator and which grace he promised by his Prophets to bestow vpon his Church and people when he shoâ—ld be their God and when the grace of God that bringeth saluation vnto all men did appear it taught so much Secondly that thâ—s church of England hath no promise that their sins and iniqâ—ities are forgiuen which is an other part of the couenant appeareth by their impenitency in this euill estate For the profane scoff at repentance and scorne all admonition they despise wisdomes counsel and such as reproue they turne agayne and rent them And for the idolatries and false worship of the whole the great iniquities in the hierarchie ministery orders rites ceremonies c they are farr from repentaÌ„ce whâ—ch wil here no reproof nor suffer any to speak against their corruptions but haue generally agreed and decreed such to be excommunicated as shall affirme any of these things to be wicked or idâ—latrous and they that would call them to repentance for their sinns or refuse to communicate with them in these euils are persecuted imprisoned banished and haue long suffred at their hands many calamities And all people are forced by fayr and colourable pretenses or by threatning and punishments to walk still in these sinns Thus want they the foundation of repentance from dead works and consequently of faith towards God for without repentance there is no promise of pardon without promise ther can be no faith and without faith no couenant or testâ—ment confirmeâ— with them or their seed as all the scriptures shew if no Couenanâ— then also no Mediator Thirdly that the summe of the Couenant namely I will be their God and thâ—y shall be my people is wantinâ— also vnto these may be seen by theâ—r estate compared with th' Apostles doctrine who vpon this promâ—se â—resently inferreth a commâ—ng out and separation of themselues from the world if they would haue the Lord to receiue them Which separation from the vngodly as it was not at the first constituting of this Church obserued so vnto this day it is resisted and pleaded against and the holy scriptures vnsufferable abused to mayteyn a confuse mixed multitude of all sorts of people to be a true church But Christ is no Mediator for such a mixture as himself sayd to his Father I pray not for the world but for them which thou hast giuen me for thâ—y are thinâ— and they are not of the world as I am not of the world Fourthly the Church of England is not vnder this coâ—enanâ— because every euery couenant is made vpon conditions wllingly agreed and assented vnto on both parties as was in that couenant made between God and the Israelâ—tes of old For God being a sâ—irit must be couenanted wâ—th worshipped in spirit he requireth the hart and minde which if it be not freely giuen him all relâ—gion is in vayn But this harty and willing submission foretold to be and seen in Gods people heretofore was not seen in this Church which was by law of man compelled not by loue of Christ constreyned to enter into this communion and religion at the beginning of Q Elis reign as in the former argument is shewed Such complusion vnto religion where God perswadeth not the hart maketh men hypocrites not true christians which not onely Gods word but even lâ—ght of reason teacheth as Themistius a Philosoâ—her acknowledged when he sayd
church because a great part of his word and scriptures and of the graces of his spirit are here neuer spoken nor heard nor suffred to be vttered and contrariweise much of mans word and writing is brought in as Aprocrypha books made of old the Seruice and homily books made of late in which also there be manifest errourâ— lâ—es contradictions to the holy scriptures idolatrous and and superstâ—tious doctrines rites ceremonses c. taught vnto and obserued by th' priests people an idle soul-murthering ministry maynteyned Chrâ—sts spirituall graces giuen for teaching and building vp his church quenched with other like evils The proof of this may be seen in their communioÌ„ book whose Kalender alotteth what is to be read dayly and yerely in all their Assemblies where many chapters of the Bible are wholly and perpetually excluded many Apocrypha chapters read as holy scriptures And by the written homilies the graces and vtterance of Gods spirit are extinguished that mans erroneus writing may come in place Besides this all preaching Ministers so limitted and restreyned in their doctrine that they may not preach against any sinn by publick authority establâ—shed and if they doe they are silenced excommunicated c. this indignity and dishonour Christ will not suffer at mans hands to haue his word and mans word matched together his spirit spirit truth restreyned he wil be Prophet aloÌ„e or not at al. as they that with the trâ—e God and his true worship had other Gods also other worships are sayd in scripture to forsake the true God and to bâ— without him so they that with the true Prophet and doctor Christ and his doctrine haue other also may rightly be sayd to haue forsaken him and to be wâ—thout him For when men set their thresholds by the Lords and their posts by his they defile his holy name with their abominations and in vayne they worship him that teach such doctrines as be precepts of men Moreover thiâ— Church wanteth part and communion with Christ in that propheticall office which he hath imparted to his peoâ—le namely power and freedom to witnes professe practise and hold forth the word of life and all that Christ hath commanded to admonish reproue one another for sinne and transgression and eyther if they repent to forgiue them or if they repent not to follow them further vnto the church and even to excommunication for their obstinate violating Gods law That they haue not power or freedome to professe and practise the truth of the Gospel in these things appeareth by their seruile subiection to the hierarchie lawes and canons which are amongst them whereby they are restreyned from professing and practising any further truth then is by law establâ—shed among them but must obey follow all that their spirituall Lords the Bishops doe inioyne them and may not speake against or reproue any of the abominatioÌ„s that ar in their church worship Ministery ceremonies c. neyther haue power to deal according to that rule of Christ Mat. 18 15. c for any sinne be it never so horrible and manifest but must leaue it to the censure of the Prelate or hiâ— Commissarie who at his pleasure buyeth and selleth the sins and soules of men This bondage the people should not be in if they had and inioyned the word of God which is the truth for that truth would make them free that they should not in this sort be seruants of men But now not haâ—ing power to professe much lesse to practise the truth nor to reproue the euils that reign among them not hauing the free vse of Gods word in priuate nor the right and lawfull Ministery or vse therof in publick they cannot be sayd to haue Christ for their Prophet and Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God EVery true Church of God hath Christ for the Priest and Sacrificer of the sâ—me for he onely is the high Priest of our profession and to him it was sworne thou art a Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedek Heb 3 1 5.5 6 10 9 11. c. But the Church of England hath not Christ for the Priest or sacrificer of the sâ—me Because the gifts and sacrifices which it offreth vnto God are not presented and offred vnto him by Christ neyther is this church reconciled reconciled vnto God by him And first the worship and seruice which they performe vnto God their prayers prayses and confeâ—sions which now are Christâ—an mens sacrifices are not offred and sanctified by Christ because they are false and idâ—lâ—trous wherewith Christ hath no communion For â—nstead of true spirâ—tuall prayer and prayses the fruits of Gods spirit in his â—eoâ—le they read a written leiturgie translated out of the Masse book and accordâ—ng as they are stinted in the same they speak obserâ—ing also the many Popish ordinances râ—tes and ceremonies commanded in the same as their holy and festivall dayes holy eues and fasting dâ—yes absolutioÌ„ of sinns by their priests confirmatioÌ„ of Baptisme by theâ—r Prelates profanation of the Sacraments by priâ—ate administration and howsling with them by gossips by idolatrous signes and gestures of croâ—â—e kneeling c. also marying by the Priest with signe of the ring churching of womeÌ„ burial of the dead readâ—ng curses or comminations in stead of discipline besides the sundry errours and vntruthes in that book vayn repetâ—tions in their prayers and the like All which being commanded and vsed dayly by law of their church without ground from Gods word which approueth none of these idolatries but condemneth them are not sanctified by Christ nor presented vnto God hiâ— Father For he will not offer the idol sacrifices neyther will God accept such things as by his law he teacheth all men to abhorr Secondly whereas the bodyes and sowles of men are also spiritual and liâ—ing sacrifices and the persons offred in the Church by the Ministeâ—y of the Gospel should be as the holy flâ—ck as the flock of Ierusalem in their solemne feasts that so the oblation of them might be acceptable being sanctified by the holy Ghost the people offred in this church are a confuse vnsanctified mâ—ltitude not separated from the world as before in the first argument is shewed and many of them so wicked even by the confeâ—sion of their own ministers and in every honest mans conscience as they neyther deseru to be layd on Gods alter nor to be touched of any true Israelite in such respect Yet ar they by the Priests of this church offred dayly vnto God in their administration and blessed in his name Yea the precious sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ remembred and reâ—resented by bread and wine at his supper is prostitutâ—â— as if it were an vnholy thing to the prophane and wicked in this church which being vnworthy receiuers are
Testament of Christ. Secondly because this church hath not the Lawes and statutes of Christ for to gouerne the same for although they haue the holy Bible among them yet are not the ordinances therein written practised or suffred to be practised in these assemblyes As for an instance the way and meanes which Christ hath appoynted for repressing of sin that enemy which his scepter alway beateth down namely first priuate admonâ—tion Secondly with witnesses Thirdly by telling the Church and then if the sinner be not reclaymed casting him out or deliuering him to Satan by the power of our Lord Iesus Christ giuen to euery congregation this holy and orderly walking is vnknowen this power is wanting in all these Parishes who cannot excommunicate any person be he neuer so profane wicked or blasphemous But contrariweise â—ll must repayr to the Bishops Chancellors or Commissaries courts where things are handled and judged according to their own lawes and canons and not by the rules of Christ. Thirdly because the people of this church were and are euen by the confession of our aduersariâ—s of all sorts of people as well wicked as Godly and sins of al sorts doe abound and reign among them that if the good lawes of the common wealth did not repreâ—se them there would be no liuing in peace among them Such profane worldly people are not the subiects of Christ his kingdome is not of the world neyther is it for the open wicked but for the repentant and beleeuing for the poor in spirit the meek the merciful the persecuted for rightiousneâ— sake not for persecuters haters coÌ„temners of the truth If thus it should be then were Christs kingdome diuided in against it selfe and so could not endure be perpetuall as the scripture sayth it shal be For both by the oracle of God Gen 3 and by experience we learne and see there is continuall warr between the womans seed and the serpents Christians and the Antichristians the children of God and the children of Belial or impiety so that the hauing of such sinfull in the church is the bane and ruine of Christs kingdome and religion The couenant made with the howse of Dauid on whose throne Christ sitteth for euer is an euerlasting couenaÌ„t perfit in all poynts sure but the wicked shal be every one as thornes thrust away because they cannot be taken with hands but the man that shall touch them must be defended with yron and with the shaft of a spear and they shall be burnt with fyre in the same place Finally this Church wanteth Christs power agaynst Syn Satan and â—ntichrist if any would deal against sinne and synners he hath no wâ—y but by complaint to the Antichristian spirituall courts for the ciuill magistrate punisheth civilly and not with ecclesiasticall censure which is the power and scepter whereof we speak and if those courts refuse to censure the sinner as they seldome cast out any except it be for wel doing or not appearing at their Summons there is no redresse of any evil among them As for ecclesiasticall matters and the many abuses and abominations that are in the church ministery worship ceremonies c. the Priests and people of the parishes are in bondage to the Prelates in seruile subjection to theyr vngodly decrees censures and cursing Canons no spirituall Christian power haue they against this tyranny but are fayn to seek to the arme of flesh the Prince and Parliament for redresse who if they refuse or neglect to help them then remayn they vnder the Prelates Antichristian yoke still as hath now appeared by their practise these many yeares But if they had Christ for their King his truth his word would make them free he would make them also Kings and Priests vnto God his Father that howsoeuer the supressing abolishing of this vnruly hierarchie with their many abominations is to be left vnto the Magistrate who onely hath power from God to execute this vengeance yet every man should deliuer his own sowl absteyning from errour false worship superstition popish thraldome all other evill whatsoeuer though with affliction bonds banishment c. and stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made him free without yoke of thraldome For he will reign in the midds of his enemies Satan and sinne he hath subdued as for himselfe so for all his people and subiects whome he hath redeemed out of all Satanean and Balylonian bondage that sinne should reign no more over them But if they forsak this fredom take vpoÌ„ them th' yoke of Antichrist his seruaÌ„ts they ar to whom they obey Which this church doing to the Antichristian Prelates whome they acknowledge for their spirituall Lords receiuing and obeying their hests and canons reteyning and nourishing such as be enemyes and rebells against Christ and remayning in spirituall bondage cannot be sayd to haue Christ for theyr King and Lawgiuer Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God THE summe of all that which hath beene sayd is this That Church which hath not Christ for th' Head Mediator Prophet Priest King of the same hath not God his Father for God of the same because the Father and the sonne are one Ioh. 10 â—0 and whosoeuer hath not the Sonne hath not the Father 1 Ioh. 2 23.3 Ioh 9. But the Church of England hath not Christ for the head Mediator Prophet Priest or King of th' same as by the former Arguments hath ben proued Wherefore it hath not God the Father for God of the same and consequently is not his Church THat church which is not the true church of Christ and of God ought not by any true Christian to be continued or communicated with but must be forsaken separated from a true church of God sought and ioyned vnto wher Christ and saluation by him may vndoubtedly be had Because we are willed to absteyn and separate from the false church 2 Cor 6 1â— 17 Reu. 18 4 Hos 4.15 Isa. 48 20. Ier 51.45 Zach. 2.6 7 1 Cor 10.20 1 c. We are willed also to seek and ioyne vnto a true church Deut. 12 5 Song 1.6 Ier 50 4 5. Isa 65 9. Psal. 26 5.6 87 2 5 6 Act 2 47. But the church of Engl. is before proued not to be the true church of Christ and of God Therefore it ought to be separated from a true church sought for and ioyned to of such as would be saued THose Ministers which haue and execute the ministery of a fals church are not the true ministers of Christ consequently not to be heard or obeyed as shepheards of our sowles Because the ministery of a false church must needs be false also seing the church hauing no interest in Christ can haue no interest in a Christian ministery Besides Christ hath giuen his ministery to his own church onely
himself and the Conformists of farr greater esteem in this church then the Reformists Whether this be not a playne schisme and Mr Bern a factious person thus to carry hâ—mselfe in a church let himselfe say as also whether he be not fâ—r this ipso â—acto excommâ—nicated by force of theâ—r own Canon which sayth Whosoeuer shall hereafter separate themselues from the Communion of Saincts as it is approued by the Apostles rules in the Church of England and combine themselues together in a new brotherhood accounting the Christiâ—ns who are conformable to the doctrine gouernments rites and ceremonies of the church of England to be profane and vnmeet for them to ioyne with in Christian profession let them be excommunicated ipso facto and not restored but by the Archbishop after their repentance and publick reuocation of such their wicked errors Into like danger doth he come by Canon 11 and 12. The il meanes by which our cause is mainteyned he makeâ—h to be strange expositiâ—n of scripture c. First Mr Bern. here walketh still in the Papists steps who obiect the like vnto the Protestants Let an indifferent reader say they peruse the learnedst book of these reformers and he shall see in them false allegations of Fathers corruptions of scriptures fathers and councels c. Secâ—â—dly I answer our expositions may seeme strange to such as are themselues strangers from God but the Godly wise can discerne to whom if they haue read our books I leane the iudging of this probability Now thâ—s old calumniatioÌ„ which SataÌ„ layd vpoÌ„ the Sainct how truly Mr Bâ—rn hath layd vpon vs let his proofs shew which are in these two particulars First that one of us sayth All the truth is not taught in the Church of Eâ—gland and to proue this Act. 20 21. is cited Which one of vs thus citeth Act. 20 and where Mr Bern. nameth not Good cause we haue to suspect his faithfulnes for in his book he chargeth vs with some errors which we hold not as after shall appear And he that would so iniury the whole what may we think he wâ—ll doe for a part I suppose therefore the party cited that scripture to proue the whole truth ought to be taught which because it may be questioned whether it be needfull at all times therefore the Apostles example is brought As for the Priests of England 〈◊〉 they preach not the whole truth is proued by their dayly practise who balk many truthes touching the church ministery worship governmenâ— c. as all that obserue their doctrines know very well It is proued â—lso by the lawes and canons of their church which excommunicate â—ll such as shall by the truth reproue the falsehoods and abominations that are among them as before in this treatise is shewed And Mr Bern. is very silly if he exspect any scriptures to proue what is now taught in his church Furthermore if it be granted him that Act. 20. were by some one of vs alleged for the purpose he pretendâ—th yet it is no more lâ—kelihood that our cause is evill then that his brethrens cause and plea against vs is evill for they without all doubt doe allege scriptures for to proue things done in Engl which it is not posible by the scripturs for to shew See before in this book pag. 43. c 44. But what speak I of others Mr Bern himsefe is fayn to vse such colours els would the glory of his church soon fade for in the 48 page of his book he allegeth God for witnes that they are his people 1 by giuing them his word Psa 147.19 20. 2 by his effectuall working thereby Ier 22 22 therefore there is the voyce of the sonne of God Ioh. 5.25 c. If these be found and sufficient proofs that England hath Gods word because Israel had it and so in the rest then why may not men allege like Scriptures and proofs against them saying They are stayned with their own works and goe a whoring with their own inuentions Psal. 106 39. from the Prophets of Ierusalem is hyprocrisie gone forth into all the Land Ier. 23.15 I haue not sent these Prophets sayth the Lord yet they ran c. Ier. 23.21 and the like So then Mr Bern. must eyther bring better reasons for himselfe or els he may blush to blame others for that wherein himself is more faulty then they if they be faulty at all The other particular which he specifieth is that places setting forth the inuisible church c. we bring to set forth the visible church by as namely 1. Pet. 2.9 10. But Mr Bern. shewes his reader no reason at all why that Scripture must be vnderstood of the inuisible church as he Sayth and it is an easie matter for him to find faults without reasoÌ„ in any maÌ„s writing That place of Peter as the wise reader may perceiue Speaketh of and to the visible or Sensible church for th' Apostle wrote to the visible christians the strangers that then dwelt in Pontus Galatia c. and this which he speaketh to them in Chap· 2 9.10 is as Moses of old spake to the visible church of Israel Exod. 19 6. Againe he mentioneth the end of their calling to this dignity vidz to shew forth the vertues of him that had called them out of darknes into his maruelous light which whether it appertaynes not to the visible church I leaue it for euery true member thereof to iudge And such as these are the exceptions that D. Allison to whome he referreth us tooke heretofore which because they are vnworthy a Dr. of Diuinity we haue though best to passe by as vnworthy of reply till further occasion The 4. likelihood is that we haue not the approbation of any reformed churches Churches for our cause This is much like his first probability before answered and seemeth to be a mayn propp to vphold the church of England which loue to make flesh their arme The reader may see this poynt thrise vrged before in this book and thrise answered I referr him also to our Letters vnto Mr Iunius whome Mr Bern. mentioneth finally to the Apologie of the church of England where themselues say vnto the like obiections of the Papists thâ— truth of the Gospel of Iesus Christ dependeth not upon councels add also nor vpon Churches nor as S. Paul sayth vpon the iudgements of mortall creatures The 5. is the condemnation of this way by the Diuines of England both liuing and dead c. But this is no other likelihood then it is like Mr Bern. if he had then liued would haue alleged against Christ himselfe when the learned Priests Rabbines and Diuines of Israel condemned his way and doctrine Ioh. 7.48.49 19 7. c. If these learned English Diâ—ines haue confuted vs let Mr Bern. or any shew the scriptures and reasons by which they haue done it if they were our aduersaries without reason as some of them he
them which also he was willing a gentleman should haue printed in his own name that M Bern. might haue slept in a whâ—le 〈◊〉 whither himselfe I say and his fellow Reformists who are disaâ—oyntâ—d of their hope be not sorry for this prosperitie let themselues say As for vt we haue learned not to fret or enâ—y when we see the wicked flourish for they shall soâ—n be cut down as grasse and wither as the green herb Sory we are indeed for their lamentable estate and desire that they may find mercy at the hands of the Lord. Our foâ—rth kind of sinne he sayth is our abusing of the werd misaleging and 〈◊〉 it c. This was the third of his probabilities before answered and is here for a shew mustred agayn among our sinns but nakedly and without all proof I leaue it therefoâ—e to the reproof of God and to the godly iudgements of all that shall read our writings and allegations of the scriptures The 5. sinne is our wilfull persisting in our schisme This is agayn to beg the question first let it appear to be schisme that we are in let the reasons aâ—d grounds of our separation be orderly dealt in and soundly convinced by Gods word then if we yeild not let vs be holden wilfull Otherweise to persist in wel doing is good And as easily do the Papists cal Protestants schismaticks as they vs. Whether M Bernard with all the helps that he hath had from other men hath conuinced vs of schisme let the godly judge If reproching of vs and idle excursions into by matters be a conuiction doubtleâ—â—e he hath done it better then any before him The 6. syn is our rayling and sâ—â—ffing and as he sayth Henry Barrowes blasphemies who hath â—grâ—giously abused all their holyest exercises of religion c. I answer if such sinne be in any of vs it is even by our selues condemned and â—f by humane infirmity any haue been ouertaken with vnseasoned speeches we desire the Christian reader to bear with and pardon it in vs as himselfe would haue pardon of God The like hath Mr. Barrâ—â— earnestly intreated in his Preface to his Discouery as the reader may see so farr was he from delighting in such wayes Secondly I answer howsoeuer I will not justify all the words of another man nor yet mine own for in many things we sinne all that many of the thâ—ngs which this man counteth raylings scoffs and blasphemies are no other speaches them the holâ— Ghost hath vsed before vs in the scriptures and applâ—ed to like persons and seemed as harsh to men of those times as these doe to men now Thirdly it is lâ—kely that some be rather the printers fault vnlesse Mr. Bernard hath forged them himselfe then Mr Barrowes Fourthly the Reformists themselus amongst whome Mr Bern. sometimes seemed one haue uttered as hard speeches against the Prelateâ— other corruptions of their own church though now like time seruers they gloze with their reuerend Fathers as this man maketh the first of Mr Barrowes raylings scoffs and blasphemies to be his caling the Bishops Antichristian But how many volumâ—s haue themselues heretofore written of this argument And who amongst vs hath euer dealt as did Marâ—in Marprelate among themselues Finally Mr. Barrow did sharply in 〈…〉 against the reforming preachers as being the greatest deceiuers of the people vnder shew of holines This maketh them aâ—ayn so eâ—er agaiâ—st him but whither he spake not right of them may in part be seen already time will shew more they can no longer halt as hitherto they haue but eyther they must recâ—ncile them to thâ—ir Fathâ—rs or quite forsake them and a bleâ—sed work of God it is that the most dangerous seducers should thus first be discouâ—â—â—d THe third and last sort of reasons which M. Bern. vseth against vs is Our errors and as he sayth the matter of our sâ—hisme The errors which he reckneth vp and vndertaketh to confute arâ— ten The first of them is that we hold the constitution of their church to be a false constitution To this he sayth 1. That we cannot proue this simply by any playn docâ—rine of scripture c. 2. That it is against the euidence of the scriptures which maketh the word Mat. 28.19 Mar 16 15. 2 Cor. 5.19 11 2. Iob 23.23.24 Act. 2.14.37.38 16.32.33 the externall profeâ—sion Act. 8.12.37.38 and Sacraments Mat. 28 19. 1 Cor. 10.16 the visible and true constitution of a company so gathered and knâ—t together and so was theirs constituted as that book of Mr. Ber. sheweth and as in another ere long shal be plainly manifested c. First Mr Ber. setteth down barely this as our position and doctrine not nameâ—ng place or boâ—k where it is written nor the proofs that we make of it but peremâ—torily sayth we cannot proue it Whereas it hath in many books by many playn doctrines of scripture been euidently proued so as Mr Bern. and all his fellow priests could neuer yet make a playn and direct answer And if when book is writen after booke no refutation be made but a bare deneyall as here M. Bern. sayth we cannot proue it I say the ministers of Engl. may so turne away any thing but with what credit or conscience the wise will judge Secondly for M. Bernards reason it selfe wanteth a good constitution being to confuâ—edly set down as a man knowes not what he makes the constitution of a church or how he would conclude that their church is constituted aright He pretends the word to be the Constitution of a church whereas the scriptures that he quoteth and reason it selfe might teach him that the word is the instrument or meanes of Constituting conseruing the church constituted so also be the sacraments But as the constitution of a common wealth or of a city is a gathering and vniting of people togither into a ciuill polity so the Constitution of the common wealth of Israel as the church is called and of the city of God the new Ierusalem is a gathering and vniting of people into a diuiue politie the form of which polity is Order as the heathens acknowledged calling polity an order of a city which Order is requisite in all actions and administrations of the church as the Apostle * sheweth and specially specially in the constitution thereof so that next vnto faith in God it â—s to be esteemed most necessary for all holy societies Wherefore Paâ—l rejoyced for these two things in the Church at Colâ—ssâ— euen their order their stedfast faith in Christ. Now whereas to the constitâ—tioÌ„ of a châ—rch there belong â— a people as the mattâ—r whereof and 2 a calling gathering and vniting togither as the form whereof the church consisteth in both these the Constitution of the Church of Engl. hath in sundry treatises been â—roued false For with them all sorts of profane worldly and wicked â—ersons are receiued as the matter whereof
the church is builded contrary to the â—layn and manifest doctrine of the scriptures Leu. 20.24 1 Kin 8 53. Act. 2.40 and 19.8 â— Iohn 17.16 2 Cor. 6.14 â—7 18. The form and order of their vâ—iting is alsâ— strange for these profane people euen all persons in a famâ—ly anâ— all families in a parish are vnited into one parish church as it is called not voluntarily â—as ought to be in the true châ—rch but by constreynt not by any due profeâ—sion of repentance from â—ead workâ— and faith in God but by the priests readinâ— a Confession absolution and such like popish stâ—ff as is to be seen in their seruice book not vnder the guidance of Chrâ—sts officers but of a Parson Vicar Curate or other like creature of the Bishops who in many places can but read English vnto them And this with the other Parâ—shes of the Dioceâ—â—e so gathered also are vnited into one See or Dâ—ocesâ—â—â— church vnder a Lord Bishop and his Coâ—rtiers and all the Dioces into two Proâ—inciall churches the Prouinciall into one nationall church called the Church of England ouer all which there is a most reuerend Father and spirituall Lord Archbushop Primate and Metropolitan vnder whome al Bishops and Priests of the land are subiect and all people and parishes in the land bound to obey the dead canons and decrees which he the Ach Lord with his brethren of the gouerning clergie agree of in their repreâ—atiue church in the Conuocation howse if once the Ciuill Magistrate giue life vnto them This forme and order of a church is not to be found in Chrâ—sts Testament but receiued it is from the church of Rome by heritage or succession as the Papists boast of to the dishonour of Protestants when they say A religion c. that distinguished the multitude into pâ—rishes â—roportioÌ„ed â—he tithes annâ—xed thâ— Glebeland fonÌ„ded the Bishopricks â—mitted the Dioceses c So as the mother is the daughter is false in her câ—stitutioÌ„ though in the doctrin which she profeseth she is far better purer theÌ„ that whoremother of Rome The discussing of thes things as Mr Bern. refereth to other places books so also do I seing in thiâ— place â—e hath brought nothing of weight to proue his coÌ„stitutioÌ„ For the scriptâ—re that he alegeth the 3. things that he colecteth from theÌ„ do make against his purâ—ose The word is not by Christs mâ—nistery riâ—htly reached applyed to the people but vnsufferabley abused to the maintenance or the confusion and idolatries that are among them the sacraments are highly profaâ—ed and prostituted to the most vngodly and thir seed and popishly administred and the externall profession which the people make is by constreynt and therefore nought worth besides it is corrupt and idolatrous being a mixed profession partly of the truth of God partly of their own inuentions as appeareth by their Communion book Canons and the like Our second error should be that we hold their Constitution a real idol and so them idolaters To confute this Mr Ber. sayth that he hâ—th perused in any scriptures and can see none that take an idol or idolaters in any such sâ—nse agaâ—n that Marlorat mentioneth 47. idols and not one of them in â—he sâ—nse Whether this article be of Mr Bernards own forginâ— or where he hath had it I cannot tell his reader must take all of his credâ— for he lets not down his author As for his confutation hereof it is very slender that becaâ—se he seeth it not or Maâ—lorat nameth it not therefore it is no idol For it is no sure position that Mr Bernard seeth all that â—he scriptures teach and both he and Marlorat may as soon number the hayres of their heads aâ— all the idols that are in the world Wel therefore yet may â—t be a real idol for oâ—ght that this man hath sayd to saue it And if it be a false constitâ—tion as before is proâ—ed set vp in stead of a true what is it better then a very idol In the end he tâ—rneth and renteth vs for making oâ—r own constitution as he sayth an idol or goddesse and feighneth that we may say Great is the Goddesse Constitution great is Diana of the Bâ—â—â—nists Bâ—t seing this is but a reâ—roch of a scorner and the reproch reacheth vnto Christ himselfe who hath appoynted the frame order and constitution of hâ—s own châ—rch which we haue laboured for I leaue him for this calumniation vnto his rebuke who will teach him one day no more to blaspheme And whether may we think tendeth the inuectiue of this vayn man who thus skoffeth at the Constitution of Christs church but to bring in a mere ataxie or confâ—sion worse then was at Babels tower-building for take away the orderly framing and constituting of a church and there will be but a Tohu as the scripture speaketh a rude indigest heap or confute Chaos more beseeming the wild beasts of the wood then any humane much lesâ—e diuine polâ—ty That such as are not of a particular constituted church to weet such a one as ours is are no subiects of Christs kingdome Neyther is this position set downe in our words to my knowledge neyther doth Mr Bâ—rnard take away but confirme rather the thing that we hold for he granteth that they offend God which may and doe not ordinarily hauing 〈◊〉 canes offred liue in a church rightly constituted and we grant that many of Christs subiects for want of meanes doe not liue in a true constituted church If therefore he were not a caviller he would not haue reckned this among our errors That all nor in our way are without and we apply against them in Engl. 1 Cor. 5 12 Eph. 2 12. The first part of this position you must impuâ—e to Mr Bernards charity who wâ—ll needs frame our assertions for vs because he thinkes we cannot speake for our selues we might leaue it vnto him to frame an answer also But if he would let vs tel what we hold it is that all not in the way â—f Châ—ist are without and if this be an error let him make the most of it The applying of those scriptures against them he must be content to bear til he or his brethren can proue theÌ„selues a true church for though there bâ— great differences of peoples professing religion some with more truth â—ome with lesse yet all not wâ—thin Christs church are without as thâ— Aâ—ostle speaketh Mr Bernards exception that those places are meant of sâ—ch as neuer professed Christ at all is childish why doth he not except aâ—aâ—nâ—t the holy Ghost himselfe who apâ—lieth against the false Christâ—ans of the Râ—mish Church words and sâ—eaches meant first of heathen Babylon that profeâ—â—ed not God or Christ at all His boasting of the word sacraments effects and deliuerances are before in this traatise taken away And Mr Bernards proofs are but a begging of the question which he blameth in otherâ— as
reâ—roched the Protestants as labouring to bring all things vnder the rule of the rash vnconstant people and vnlearned multitude and to make the church democraticall and popular because every one of the people by his priuate spirit is supreme iudge and head in matters of religion Our different judgement and practise from the church of Engl. wher all â—y men as they call them are forbidden all speaking or expounding of the word in the publik assemblies and where a Bishop Chancellor or Commissary hath power to excommunicate by a Latin writ c. Our difference also and dislike of the Presbyteries practise whereby people are excluded and depriued of a great part of their Christian liberty and benefit thereby is in other books largely treated of with scriptures reasons many which M Bern. neyther orderly handleth nor soundly confuteth as the wise reader may see but ignorantly and confusedly shuffleth them ouer running into by matters and vniust calumniations I will end therefore with the words of one of his fellow ministers who touching this poynt of Church gouernment writeth much more soundly then by Mr. Bern. in his blindenes hath done Mr Iacob I mean which sayth It is childish and without all wit to cry out aganst vs â—us our adueâ—saries doe Popularity Anarchie c. for our so wel grounded and so approued an assertion That the sinne of one man publâ—ckly and obstinately stood in bâ—ing not reformed nor the offender cast out â—oth sâ— pâ—llute the whole congregation that none may commuâ—â—cate with hâ— same in any of the holy â—hings of God though it be a church râ—ghtly conâ—â—ituted till the party be excommunâ—cated I deney agayn this to be eyther our iudgement or practise Mr. Bern. sayth the formâ—r position is the ground of this and so it seemeth he câ—lumniating vs in the forâ—er thouâ—ht he might doe likeweise in this We professe and haue long since publâ—shed that none is to separate for fâ—â—lts corruâ—tioÌ„s which may so long as the Church coÌ„sistâ—th of mâ—rtall men will fall out and arisâ— among them but by due order to sâ—â—k râ—dresse thâ—reof Now that euery Chrâ—stian not onely may bâ— tought to rebuke his neighbour for sinne we haâ—e playn lawes both â—n the old Testament and the new Leuit. 19.17 Luk. 17.3 That sinners not repenting are after the second admonition to be signified vnto the church is also Christs ordinance Mat. 18 15.17 But what â—f â—he church will not cast him out I answer Synns are eyther conâ—rouertible or manifest If controuertible and dâ—ubtfâ—ll men ought to bear one with anothers different judgement if they doe not but any for this make a breach or separation they syn But if the sinne be manifest as for example a man is conuict of adultery blasphemy theft or the like and the church will not rebuke him nor cast him out but suffer him obstinate and impenitent in his wickednes and plead for him agaâ—nst such us call vpon them for iudgemâ—nt then are all such abettors of the wicked sinners themselues and that in a high degree as th' Apostle noteth Rom. 1 31 the whole lump is leuened 1 Cor. 5 1 6. c. and now not that one mans sinne but the sinne of them all is that which polluteth them for they fauour and iustify a wicked man more then God therefore woe is vnto them and Solomon sayth He that sayth to the wicked thou art righteous him shall the people curse and the multitude shall abhorr him Prou 24 24 If M Bern think the sinne is the lesse because a church maynteyns it he is much deceiued evill the more common it is the worse â—t is because God is more dishonoured and mens sowles more endangered If he think men should regard and reuerence the church in this case the law teacheth every man not to follow the many or the mighty to doe euill nor agree in a controuersie to decline after many and ouerthrow the right The â—round of all this is playn in Gods law if any one of the people sinned against any of the commandements of the Lord and one shewed him his sinne which he had committed he was to bring his sacrifice a testification of his repentance If a ruler sinned or the high priest himselfe they were to doe likewise If the whole Congregation sinned the like law was for them God respected no persons but if they that sinned were greater or moe in number they were so farr from being sauoured as they had the greater sacrifice inioyned them a priuate man offred a shee-goat a ruler a hee-goat the high Priest and the Congregation a yong bâ—llock These lawes were giuen to all sorts of persons for all manner sinns‘ and the law was agayn repeated and stablished from that day forward throughout their generations Num. 15.22.23 c. But if any man despised this law and sinned with a high hand the same blasphemed the Lord and was to be cut off from among his peoâ—le Num. 15.30.31 Now further that the whol congregation taking Part with wicked men in syn after due admonition are all defiled and subiect to like iudgement we haue a playn example in the whole Tribe of Beniamin where in Gibeâ—h one of their towns filthines was committed the Tribe was called vpon to deliuer thâ—se wicked men to death that evill might be put away from Israel â—â—t when they would not deliuer them all the other tribes warred against that trâ—be and almost rooted out every man of the same Likeweise the trâ—bes of Israel in an other case sayd to some of their brethren seeing ye rebel to day against the Lord euen tomorrow he wil be wroth with all the Congregation of Israel Did not Achan sinne c. and wrath fell on all the congregation of Israel and this man alone perished not in his wickednes What Mr Bern. seeth or how he readeth the scriptures I cannot tel but if he knew the contagion of sinne or guilt of the same he would neuer haue writien as he hath done Now where he pleadeth that men should not for the offender refreyn the holy things of God abhâ—rr the sacrifices c. We grant it The holy things are alwayes to be reuerenced Gods house and sacrifices frequented when we may without sinne But we deny such an assembly to be Gods church as with a high hand sinneth and blasphemeth the Lord. The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination And it cannot be said that any holy thing is lawfully administred in such a society where all agree together to mayntein open iniquity and doe despise the word of the Lord calling them to repentance If they doe not thus we hold it not lawfull to separate from them nor in any weise at any time till all holy and orderly meanes be vsed for their reclayming That euery of their assemblies are false churches This we hold indeed being
God who took our nature of the Virgin Mary is our onely and alsufficient Sauiour For proof of this they first allege that thâ—y receiue this truth are the people of God and in the state of saluation they that receiue it not cannot possibly be saued Mat. 16.18 Mark 16.16 1 Iâ—h 4.2 Col 2.7 But first none of these scriptures doe say that this one article which these ministers haue set downe in this forme of words is the onely fundamentall truth in religion Neyther doth any other scripture that I know of so speake for though Christ onely is the foundation of the Christian church and though as they secondly allege no other point of religion is necessary otherwise then as it tendeth necessarily to teach or confirme this one truth yet foloweth it not but other points also are fundamental truthes the denyall of which will abolish from Christ. Secondly they haue altered added to and omitted some of the words of these scriptures for their own aduantage For fearing that we would as indeed we mean to doe presse them with the profession of the Anabaptists Papists and other heretiks they thinke to preuent vs. And first against the Anabaptists which deny that Christ took our flesh these men haue added who took our nature of the Virgin Mary Then against the papists which hold merit of works they adioyne these words our onely and alsufficient Sauiour And this because the church of England mainteyneth the truth in these points against those fore sayd heretiks On the other hand to help themselues in their corrupt Antichristian walking and false constitution they omit and mention not th' Apostles words Col. 2. wher he sayth As ye haue receiued Christ Iesus the Lord so walke in him rooted and built in him and stablished in the faith as ye haue been taught c The discreet reader may soon espy their purpose in this cunning cariage For let the position be set downe in the scripture termes and we shall see how weake their plea will be The onely fundamentall truth in religion is this That Iesus is the Christ the sonne of the liuing God comen in the flesh in whom we must beleeue and h walke being rooted and build in him and stablished in the faith as we are taught in the new testament If now these ministers will insist vpon the three first scriptures onely and generall terms that are in them it is apparant that the Papists Anabaptists and many other miscreants doe hold and professe them absolutely absolutely But if they joyne with them Colos. 2. and compare the walking rooting building and stablishing in the faith taught by th' Apostles with the Popish church or with their own it wil be found that neyther of them hold the foâ—ndation Christ aright Themselues wâ—ll grant it of the Papâ—sts and other heretiks and for their own church it is before in this treatise proued So then to come agayn vnto their reason that they hold â—eâ—ch and mainteyn euery part of Gods holy truth which is fundamâ—ntall whereby they woulâ— conclâ—de themselues to be a true chrâ—ch the arâ—ument is deneyed Fâ—r first if â—t were granted that thâ—y hâ—ld â—aught and maiâ—teynâ—d every part of fundâ—â—ental truth which yet with them is but one article onely as we haue heard it wâ—ll not follow necessaryly that therefore they are a true châ—rch or that they truely professe the Christ an faith There wanâ— two things 1 obedience to the truth professed withoâ—t which men shal be damned whatsoeuer they professe 2 and a right profession of the true faith onely without errâ—urs adioyned that ouerthrow the same faith and obedience thereto For if a people profeâ—sing that onely fundamentall truth which these ministers speake of should withall professe Mahomet the prophet of the Turks or H. N. the God of the Familists or any other like abomination were this misceline profession of Christ and Belial togither a true and sound profeâ—sion I trow not So then these ministers must alter their plea thus that they hold teach mainteyn and obey every part of the fundamentall truth and nothing els with it that ouerthrowes the same If now they say this they doe I haue before in this treatise disproued it and here agayn will briefly disproue it thus They professe to beleeu the Communion of Saincts and that the visible church is a congregation of faithfull people Yet contrariweise they hold teach and mainteyne that their own church is a true church of Christ though it consists as wel of vnholy as holy infidels as beleeuers and innumerable wicked persons openly seen and known That this they hold mainteyn is proâ—ed by their continual clamors and reprochful writings against vs that call vpon them for a separation of light from darknesse It is proued by Dr Wâ—itgifts plea before mentioned that the children of Papists heretiks and other wicked persons are and ought to be baptised amoÌ„g theâ— It is further proued by the visible estate of their church knowne vnto all among them and testâ—fied by her dearest freinds fauourers Mâ— Gifford speaking to his brethren â—f the Communion of Saincts in Engl. sayth Yee would euen powr out your stinâ—ing and râ—tâ—en pâ—yson like blaspemous and venemous beasts ye would speake after this manner you that are so full of the spirit you that are Saincts and suâ—h like What are you Diâ—ils are ye of the flesh No doâ—ut ye are vntill God convert ye But we may se how diuiâ—ishly men ar become wicked when a man cannot make any appearance to be godly and holy but it is reproched as though it were a shamefull thing to be lead by the spirit c. These and the like records with the continuance continuance in this confused estate plainely proue an ouerthrow of that article of the true church which is the body of Christ and the body being disanulled Christ the head cannot soundly be reteyned Agayn they professe in Engl. that the puâ—e word of God is to be preached the sacraments duely administred c. also that in our doings that will of God is to be followed which we haue expresly decleared vnto vs in the word of God Yet withall they professe and practise in that church to read the Apocrypha â—criptures in which are found vntruthes and errors when many parts of the authentik scripture are neuer read among them they haue also written homilies in sted of preaching a written Leâ—tourgâ—e Letany collects c. in sted of praying which Leitoargie with all the popish contents therein must be approued and vsed by all the Priests and people and God serued by it euery day They haue also an antichristian clergie caâ—led and ordeyned according to their pontifical or book of ordination which â—n their beleef hath not any thing that of it selfe is sâ—perstitious and vngodly c. Finally all the Romish reliques yet in England to be seen in the
hierarchâ—e worship ceremonies ordinances church constitution c. which things can neuer be approued by the word of God are yet held and vpheld taught and mainteyned in the church to the excommunicating and persecuting of all such as speake against them or refuse to communicate with them This sinfull mixture and maintenance of so much antâ—christian error with the christian truthes that they profeâ—â—e is no true Christian profession and practise of our obedience vnto the fundamentall truth of the gospell neyther can the ministers proue that these contraries will stand together when account shal be giuen before the iudgment seat of Christ. Secondly I answer as to their former reason that although some Bishops and Priests haue written Articles Catechismes c. yet are not these approuâ—d much lesse walked in by the church of Engl. neyther are the people rooted bâ—ilded and stablished in the faith according to Colos. 2. but are diâ—â—olute and profane in their conuersation rooted in uices and stablished in iniquitis as lameÌ„table experience teacheth all men as the testâ—monâ—es of their own ministers before alleged proue and many other we might allege and must if these men still continue to vrge that which is knowne to be farr otherweise For how well their people doe walke in the faith of the foundation Christ and approue of all fundamentall truthes in the scriptures let these testimonies of their own freinds shew The most part of your honest men saith Mr Gifford to and of his brethren now a dayes delight so much in the word of God and meditate so much in it that they care not a button though they neuer heare it they loue it and set as much by it as they doe by an old sâ—â—e Euery man sayth an other followeth the pride couetousnes whordome dronkennes of his owne hart and no man remembreth Ioseph The barrs are filled with pleadings the streets are full of cries of the poor fulnes of meat and contempt is among vs and who considereth Yet if this our sinne were onely against men and not against God there â—ight be some hope But when the mouth of the blâ—spemous swearer is not tiâ—d vp and the hands of the idolatrous generation of Atheists and profane persons be not chained when the most holy and precious word of God is manifestly contemned the ioyfull and heauenly tidings of saluation so negligently and vngratefully troden vnder foot the true and faithfull messengers pursued arraygnned and diuers wayes â—fflicted then if the old world for malicious imaginations Sodome and Gomora for pride fulnes of meat and vnmercifulnes if Ierusalem for abusing Gods Prophets and wilfulnesse were woefully destroyed what may we poor carelesse People look for it we doe not repent but as it is almost vniuersally feared spâ—edy ruine and vtter desolation The exceptions which these Godly ministers take against Mr Barrowes writings and yet professe not to answer them need not now to be stood vpon till the particulars whereby he hath discouered their errors and euill dealings be by them taken away They further taxe note it in him as a strange opinion and an error full grosse mainteyned in pag. 156.157 of his Discouery vidz that euery truth conteyned in the scripture is fundamentall But the grossnes or crossnes wil be found in themselus for that which Mr Barrow there inueigheth against was this that though transgressions and errors be obstinately continued in and openly taught after they be reproued and conuinced by the word of God yea and the parties dye in that estate without repentance of these transgressions or errors yet may they hold the foundation and be vadoubtedly saued Of this minde were and still continue sayth he fiue of the very principal and best esteemed ministers of Engl. both for learning and conscience although there were alleged against the same these expresse scriptures Num. 15.30 31. Exod. 23.21 1 Sam. 15.22.23 Ezek. 18.26 Mat. 5 18 19 Iam. 2 10. c. This was the thing that M Bar. there bet down shewing further that if the whole scripture was giuen by inspiration of God and is profitable to teach to conuince to correct to instruct in righteousnes if it be the groundwork and foundatioÌ„ of the church of our fayth if it be the law and rule of our life the light of our eyes c. If euery word of God be holy pure perpetuall then is this deep learning of theyrs diuilish and blasphemous that thus to colour and couer their wickedness make some part of gods word fundamentall substantiall necessary other accidentall superficiall needlesse especially where it sheweth reproueth and condemneth their doings c Now what say these ministers against this plea they plainly yeild in effect to th'truth which they could with no coulour gainsay we beleeu say they and teach that there is no Part of holy scripture which euery Christian is not necessarily bound to seek desire knowledge of so far sorth as in him lyeth Very wel sayd had they added also this word obeyed which I suppose they would be thought to intimate there would be no difference between M Barrow and them though thus they would traduce him But least they should seeme to condemne themselues they except yet dare we not cal euery truth fundamentall that is such as if it be not knowne and obeyed the whole religion and fayth of the church must needs fall to the ground and agayne we doubt not that some parts are of more vse and more necessary for men to know then othersome In these things excepting the word fundamentall which seemeth to be but strife about a word We agree with them neyther doth Mr Barrow that I can perceiue disagree for it is one thing not to know and obey euery truth as they speake and another thing to know as hauâ—ng reproofe and conuiction by the word of God and yet to disobey and rebel against the truth and continue obstinately in transgreâ—sion which was the poynt in hand And for the world fundamentall seing all Gods testimonies are true and Dauid sayth that the Lord hath founded them for euer I see no cause why we need be afraid to call euery trâ—th fundamentall that is such as is firme and stable and on which we shovld ground and builde our faith and actions vp on alwayes Yet seing now what these ministers vnderstand by the word I will not striue Also M Barrow himselfe in his Obseruations vpon Mr Giffâ—rds last reply telleth him that he denyeth not in vse of speech such distinction so much as withstand such eronius abuse of that distinction which M. Gifford and other deuines of these tymes would infer thereof And in deed the simple are much beguiled by this subtile distinction For when the sinns and idolatrâ—es of these Priests are blamed answer is made though they be sinns yet are they not fundamentall they cut vs not off from Christ we hold him the foundation and
beleeue to be saued by him alone and by this colour men continue in transgression and idolatrie stil. which is as if a theef dronkard whormaister blasphemer or other vicious liuer being blamed by the lawes of God which condemne these sinnes should say These are petty faults I confesse but they are not fundamental for the onely fundamentall truth and ground of all Gods law is Loue and that is the fulfilling of the law Rom. 13.8 9.10 Gal. 5.14 1 Tim. 1.5 Now this foundatioâ— I hold for I professe to loue God aboue al and my neighbour as my sâ—lfe on which ground as Christ sayth the law and prophets doe depend and this I doe howsoeuer I cannot keep my tongue from swearing lying and â—iâ—auldrie nor my hands from picking and stealing nor my body chast c. yet my hart is good I loue God and my neighbour and hope to he saued as well as the precisâ—st puritan of them all And now what will these ministers say to theâ—r profane parishioners if thus they pleaded for doe not themselues thus plead for the transâ—reossins of the first table and violating of the testament of Christ in their own false ministery idolatrous rites ceremonies and forged worship But as euery true Christian hart knoweth that such profane ruffians howsoeuer they say they loue god yet in deed they hate him and howsoeuer the sâ—mme and end of all the Law is Loue onely yet that loue implyeth obedience to every particular precept and he which breaketh the least commandement and teacheth men so shal be called the least in the kingdome of heauen as Christ sayth so know they likeweise or should know that such superstitious idolaters false and Antichristian Prelates and priests howsoeuer they boast of true fayth yet by theyr works they deney it and although Fayth in Christ be the foundation of Christian religion yet in imâ—lieth necessarily obedience vnto the ordinances of his Testament euen whatsoeuer is commanded them therein and as the curse is denounced against all the transgressors of Moses law in any part thereof so they shall not escape vengeance that wilfully despise the law of Christ or any part of his testament confirmed with his precious blood And if thus we vnderstand not and interpret those scriptures which sum vp al christianity in Christ we must needs confesse that many false churches euen Rome it selfe is a true church seeing they doe professe such generall grounds of Christ as by playn evidence of scripture seem sufficient vnto saluation as appeareth by Council Trident. Seâ—s 3. compared with Rom. 10.9 Act. 8.37 38. 1 Ioh. 4.2 Mark 16.16 also Rhemes testam annot on 1 Tim. 2.5 wher they professe Christ by nature to be truely both God and man to be that on eternall priest and redeemer which by his sacrifice and death vpon the crosse hath reconciled us to God and payed his blood as a full and sufficient ransome for all our sinns c. How beit that these ministers stumble no more at that we professe let them know we hold euery generall head and ground of doctrine more necessary to be known then ech particular branch of the same an error ouerthrowing a whole ground of religion to be much more wicked then that which ouerturneth but a part thereof Also that many of Gods church are ignorant of sundry particular doctrines of the Gospell yea all of vs in some for none is perfect yet that in some generall grounds ignorance is damnable and further that the wilfull and obstinate refusall or contempt of the least evident truth of the Gospel is deadly and damnable of it own nature Neyther see we how we should beleeue otherweise vnlesse with the Papists we think some sinns veniall some mortall As for Mr Barrowes words from Ioh. 16.13 which also these ministers mistaking doe mislike it is evident by his own writings to the contrary otherwhere that he meant not so erroniously as they collect But that promise made to the Apostles he applieth vnto all the members of Christ by proportion though not in like measure Which that it may be done we learne of the Apostles themselues in other like cases 2 Cor. 4.13 from Psalm 116. Heb. 13.5.6 from Ios. 1 Psal. 118. c. Their last reason is from the approbation of all the known churches in the world which acknowledge this church of Engl. for their sister and give vnto them the right hand of fellowship This poynt is handled before in this treatise pag. 9. c. 48 51. c. vnto which places I refer the reader Many scriptures and reasons these ministers allege from the primitiue churches examples that reioyced for and saluted one another of and of the comfort that a church may haue in the communion and approbation of other churches All which we grant and dâ—e obserue how fast â—hey can cite scriptures for things that we deny not But they say nothing for the controuersie between them and vs. which consisteth of these 3. poynts 1 whither a people may not separate from euill and professe and walke in the truth vnlesse or vntill other churches allow them 2. whether it be a necessary and vndenyable argument that whomsoeuer other churches approue they are true churches and so must be esteemed of all men 3 and whither the reformed churches at this day doe approue of the church of England in all or any of the differences for which we sâ—parate from them The first of these is proved by all Gods commandements which require euery man particularly to refrayn all evill and doe that which is good Exod. 20. The second is disproued by themselues in their writings against the Papists who pressed them with such reasons Let councels sayth Mr Whitaker be esteemed as they deserue let their decrees be examined by Gods word and if they agree let them be receiued for that agreement if not let them be reiected for the contrary To this agreeth their own Bishops Articles ano 1562. Art 21. and also their Apoligie before alleged in this treaâ—ise and finally Mr Bernards own counsel though perhaps he knew no more then Caiaphas what he sayd saying See into the glasse of the word by thine own sight without other mens spectacles c. For the latter poynt we know the reformed churches as their constitution and writings shew are for vs and against them of which see before pag 10 c. and it shall hereafter be further confirmed if these ministers will deny it Hitherto of the reasons alleged by the godly ministers wherein how they haue proued and setled their first position let the godly wise judge Next follow their answers to the obiections made by vs. And these they make two First that their church of Engl. was not gathered by such meanes as God in his word hath ordeyned and sanctified for the gathering of his Church Secondly that they communicate together in a false