condition not to preach against any thing by publick aucthority established how vngodly and enormous soeuer they be And also haue submitted their whole doctrines persons to these their Ordinances not to teach anie truth or against anie error that they inhibite to preach or cease to preach to administer or cease to administer at their direction and inhibition And for their priuate estate by them to be enioyned what kind of apparel to weare wheÌ„ they ride walke abroade or administer Not to marrie without their knowledge consent or licence euen to this or that perticular woman c. Must not this needes be an excellent ministrie and ministration of the Gospel that is thus mancipate to and by these slaues that is thus bought and solde limited prescribed restrayned when they can proue that the Gospel may be in this maner vsed in the true Churche of CHRIST or preached by the true Ministrie of Christ we wil then yeild to their whole ministration and acknowledg them the true Ministers of Christ. But in the meane while because this is impossible and cannot without blasphemie be enterprised without sinne be thought because also we finde vpon this present Ministrie of theirs euen al the markes of the false Prophet that are written in the booke and al the markes of the Beast we must hold them as they are except we wil with them condemne the truth of God and call CHRIST execrable Neither yet is this their preaching considered euen in yt self set apart from all the abuses and enormities aboue recited such as they glorie of abounding with such great learning excelleÌ„t giftes and rare graces of the spirit or answearable to that heauenly exercise of prophecie in Christes Church Of their education and learning euen from the grammer schole to the pulpit you haue alreadie hearde as also their Diuinity to be traditional wholly deriued from other mens writinges and books both for the vnderstanding diuiding and interpretation of al scriptures as also for all doctrines questions and doubtes that arise and not springing from the fountaine of Gods spirit in theÌ„selues according to the measure of knowledge faith and grace giuen them So that these dumbe blinde guides and watchmen doe but see with other mens eyes but speake with other mens mouthes and as one of their chief aucthors saith of them without these bookes they as are blinde as molles as mute as fishes not able of themselues to decide open and interprete almost anie scripture Or to discusse iudge or decide anie doubt or controversie with assurance And therfore when anie newe question vnwritten of before ariseth they are either al at a full poyncte not knowing what to saye to the matter Or ells wheÌ„ they speake so manie opinions and sentences as speakers Yea euen in the thinges they reade and teache there being so great diuersitie contrarietie amongst these Writers their aucthors there also ensueth great difference contrarietie in their doctrines which they publicklie deliuer One teaching one thing in one place an other the quite contrarie in an other And this not onlie in interpretation and vnderstanding of sondrie yea almost all places of scripture but euen in most waightie and as they call them fundamentall poynctes of doctrine As whether the Church of Rome be to be esteemed a true Churche or no The Sacraments there deliuered and the Ministrie there ordayned be â—o be held true sacraments and a true Ministrie or no. Also if the ordinances order and outward gouernment of Christes Church left in Christes Testament be perpetual of necessitie to be obserued c. And al this diuersitie coÌ„trarietie of iudgmeÌ„t publickly taught in their Church must be coloured and passed ouer with this sweete sentence of Mr. Giff. That they are but brotherly dissentioÌ„s they agree in al fundamentall doctrines A happie tourne it were that those fundamental doctrines were once agreed vpon and set downe that wee might then knowe which part of CHRISTES Testament is fundamentall and of necessitie and which is accidental and not necessarie but variable and at mans wil. In the meane while wee must stil belieue that CHRIST is not yea and naye of one minde in one place of an other ells where Neither that the spirite of God can rule in both places where such contrarie doctrines are taught and maintayned We also are taught that howsoeuer bretheren through ignorance maie doubt and differ in iudgment for a ceason yet are they no there vpon to teach such thinges as they are not assured of lest they publish and sowe errors Which who so doth be he man or Angel that teacheth any other thing or otherwise then Christ. and his Apostles haue taught and deliuered or causeth diuision dissention contrarie to their doctrine or commeth not to the wholesom wordes of our Lord Iesus Christ c wee are to hold them accursed to watch and auoide them Likewise the maner of their pulpit preaching nothing 〈◊〉 to the order of Christes Church where the Prophets I meane such as are knowen to haue the gift of interpretatioÌ„ of scriptures haue al of them libertie to speake what God reueileth vnto them besides that which hath bene deliuered so that they neither hinder disturbe or interrupte the publick ministerie of the Churche but vse their libertie opportunely holily to edification They haue libertie also yea their especial dutie it is to obserue and publickly to reproue anie false interpretation or false Doctrine deliuered publicklie in the Church by whom soeuer Yea this power hath the least member of the Church in due order and place if the Prophets and Elders should ouersee omit neglect or refuse The whole Church also euen euerie peculiar Christian Congregation hath power in yt self to censure not onlie anie doctrine deliuered but the person of anie member or Minister of the same congregation But here in these Babilonish Synagogues one Priest climbeth vp into their pulpits for orations and possesseth the place alone where he declameth deliuereth his studied tale to the howre-glasse which being runne out he must make an end for troubling his auditory and leaue no place or tyme of addition assent or dissent to anie other al the people hasting awaye In his pulpit after he hath read his text he may diuide teache or hadle yt leaue or take yt corrupt falsifie wrest or peruert yt at his pleasure In that his priuileged tubbe he may deliuer what doctrines he liste be they neuer so currupt false blasphemous None of his auditore whatsoeuer they be hath power to cal them into questioÌ„ cerrect or refute the same presently and publickly for that is by lawe forbidden But the Church is driueÌ„ to their Lord Ordinarie to coÌ„plaine and except or vntil he redresse they must hold vse him stil as their Minister In that priuileged tubbe he may inveâ—ghe accuse sclander deuounce against anie truth or person that witnesseth against their kingedome or against anie publicke
in the Church whether with or without their Princes licence But if yt be vnlawful for the Church or such as haue aucthoritie of God without the licence of their christian Prince or gouernours Then verilie our Sauiour his Disciples offended herein who stayed not to doe the will of his heauenlie Father for the threates laying wayte of the Rulers Furder if it be vnlawfull derogatorie to a Christian Princes office aucthoritie for anie to doe Gods wil in their callings and for the Church to proceede in the practize of CHRISTES Testament though against his wil Then is it also vnlawfull vnder a heathen Prince For the christian and heathen Princes haue one and the same aucthoritie office duetie to see all thinges both in the Church and in the commune Wealth donne according to the wil of God There is the same reuerence and obedience though I say not the same bowells of loue due to the heathen that is due to the christian Prince in regarde of their office The heathen Prince shall answere aswell as the christian for the neglect of their duetie for the abuse of their power and place And thus also if M r. G. doctrines be sownd the Apostles likewise sinned against the aucthoritie of Princes in erecting CHRISTS kingdome and the Churches in proceeding to receiue the same and to doe the wil of God without their Princes licence and notwitstanding their prohibition Seing that the vnbeleeuing Princes haue the same place office and aucthoritie and ought to haue the same obediene in respect thereof that christian Princes haue or ought haue And sure most diuelish and detestable are these two published and generallie receiued opinions of these contrarie factions of our English Cleargie men The one giuing out that the forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment prescribed in CHRISTS Testament practized by the Apostles and primatiue Churches in the tymes of persecution is not nowe necessarie or tollerable vnder a Christian Prince The other giuing out that those ordinances and that gouernment which they acknowledge CHRIST to haue instituted and prescribed to his Church vnto the worldes end may not nowe vnder a christian Prince be put in practize by the Church if he forbid the same as they might ought and were vnder heathen Princes by the faithful in all ages With the one of these blasphemous positions the Prelates defend their outragious gouernment and all their antichristian proceedings with the other the tyme-seruers these counterfeite Reformistes colour and defend their perfidie not witnessing vnto and practizing the Gospell of Christ and their seruile subiection to the gouernment of Antichrist By which positions both sides most impiously abrogate the heauenlie gouernment and ordinances of Christ in his Church and intollerably seduce and abuse that most blessed and comfortable ordinance of the christian Magistracie Both of them hereby shut vp the kingdome of heauen against all men neither entring themselues nor suffring such as would but holding the whole land vnder the enormous gouernment of Antichrist in the wrath of God whose iudgment therfore sleepeth not YEt remayneth an other dangerous error which Mr. G. hath pickeâ— out of a certaine answere made by me HENRIE BARROVVE to three greate Bishops of this land where being demaunded whether the Queene may make lawes for the Church which are not contrarie to the worde of God I seeing wherat they aymed vzt to maintayne al these popish reliques deuises tromperies c wherwith their worship Church is pestered answered as I remember to this effect That no Prince neither al the meÌ„ of the world not the Church yt self could make any lawes for the Church other then CHRIST hath left in his worde But I thought it the dutie of euerie Prince especially of euerie christian Prince to enquire out renewe the lawes of God and to stir vp all their subiects vnto more diligent careful keeping of the same This answere M r. G. after his accustomed maner pronownceth Anabaptisticall deâ—ijng and cutting off a great part of the power God hath giuen vnto Princes and a great part of Discipline Proof of these chardges he maketh none except we must take these two assertions in way of proofe vntill he bring better The first is that CHRIST hath giuen general lawes or rules for matters of circumstance that be indifferent variable in the perticulars and so to be altered and abolished as the peace and edification of the Church shall require And therfore that Princes with the Church are to ordaine to establish such orders by those generall rules as may afterward for iust cause be altered M r. G. his antecedent here is so general extendent his conclusion so doubtful and indefinite taking such roome to himself in both to escape euade as except he drawe nearer and in his next booke take the paynes to set downe what he meaneth in his proposition by general lawes rules and by matters of circumstance And in his conclusion what kinde of orders those such orders are the Prince should ordeine establish he shalbe so far from distressing or convincing me as I shall neuer perceiue where he is or where about he goeth This when he shal doe then I shall knowe what to answere him In the meane tyme I confesse manie thinges of circumstance as the tyme place of assembling what scriptures to reade or to interprete how longe to continue in prayer or prophecie c to be left in libertie at the discretion of the Church to be wisely vsed according to their present occasions to edification order decencie Of these sondrie such like the Lord in wisedome sawe it not good to set downe positiue or permanent lawes for all Churches and tymes because the present estate and diuers occasions of all Churches yea of anie one Church are so diuers variable that prescript definitiue lawes could not be set of such things in perticular for the space of one moneth without manifold incoÌ„veniences great preiudize to the Church Of such things then as the Lord for these wise endes waighty causes hath left in the libertie discreation of the Church to be vsed and ordered according to the present estate and occations therof c may man make no prescript positiue lawes in perticular to enioyne therby this forme this tyme c vpon all or vpon anie one Church without restrayning that which God hath left at libertie yea without coÌ„trolling contrarijng the wisdome of God which no doubt is most excellently perfect euen in the least thinges and without manie other grieuous inconveniences intollerable preiudize to the Church of God Much better therfore should the Prince prouide for the Church to see them duly to obserue the lawes that God hath giueÌ„ and to vse their libertie aright Or where they transgresse in either of these to reprooue or to correct accordingly then to make and enioyne new lawes of his owne deuising so contrarie to the libertie yea euen to that order
saying of the Prophet is come about That there are like people like Priest Al this Mr. G. in his festered coÌ„science knewe before and that his shamelesse assumption would not passe with his adversarie with whom he had to doe and therfore he leaueth the proof of this assumption as also of his office and entraÌ„ce and yet againe assayeth by a newe argument of the effectes together with that which is properly adioyned to the Ministrie of CHRIST to proue his Ministerie THat ministerie with the'xecution wherof there is ioyned the effectual grace power blessing and operation of the holy Ghost to the true conuertion of mens soules is not a ministerie of the Diuel nor of Antâ—christ nor cometh not in the life and power of the Beaste but is indeed the true Ministerie of CHRIST But such grace power blessing operation is founde in the Ministerie of England Therfore First here stil must be obserued a begging and assuming of a true Ministrie which as yet is not proued Neither doth this reason proue a Ministrie so much as shew the infallible effectes of true doctrine true preaching whether it be by Ministers or by other faithful which haue the gift of prophecie knowledge interpretation vtterance c. For far from the truth is it to thincke that only Ministers beget and winne to the faith as some most shamelsse Bishops and sencelesse Priestes of this age haue published and mainetaine Then might they aswel with the Papistes permit the worde of God only vnto Priestes yea suffer none but Priestes to speake of the worde or holie doctrines if this vse and end of the worde were taken away if the blessing and power of God should not goe with his holy word and truth in the mouth of all his seruants both to cal vnto the faith an to super-edifie in the faith Ells should al dueties in families all mutual exhortations admonitions conferences cease But hauing the commandement of God to al these the euidence and testimonie of the blessed and comfortable effects following the faithful testimonies of al Christes Disciples in all ages and contynual experience hereof amongst out selues dayly we dare affirme that others besides Ministers may conuert soules and begeate faith So then this argument of the effectes proueth not so much a true ministry as it doth proue true doctrine For no false doctrine can beget true faith though manie which be no Ministers may beget true faith Mr. Giff. theÌ„ reasoneth verie corruptly deceiptfully in attributing the conuertion of soules as proper peculiar to the ministrie which is not so and in bringing these effectes to proue a true ministrie which only are to proue true doctrine And nowe to Mr. Gif his assumption Wee denie that any false ministrie hath promise of blessinge or is sent of God for the conuertion of soules but on the contrarie we finde it accursed and sent of God for the seducing of the reprobate The ministrie then of the Church of EnglaÌ„d being proued false in Office Entrance and Administration can haue no such promise or blessing of God as Mr. Giff. assumeth If it be demaunded then whether al vnder this ministrie be damned I say it is a newe question and kept secret to the Lorde who onlie knoweth who be his when how to call them It becometh not vs to giue anie such finall iudgment of matters not knowen vnto vs Yet this wee may be warrant of the whole scripture saie That the waies of the false Churche and ministrie are the waies of death and haue no promise of saluation But for the persons wee iudge charitablie euen so longe and so far as wee may measuring them by our selues as wee sometymes were hoping and not doubting but God hath manie thousandes deare elect there yea euen in the Popish Churches whom he in his due tyme by his appointed meanes wil cal If Mr. Giff. here insist say that many of those thousandes are couerted by their ministrie Therfore their ministrie is not in the power of ANTICHRIST or of the Diuel but of God hauing that sure seale that worcke of the holie Ghost We haue aboue answered that this rather approueth the doctrine then the ministrie and is to be attributed to the worde of God rather then to the person of man Furder that the false ministrie hath no promise of blessing Yet doe wee not herebie restraine the infinite power of God from sauinge or calinge his elect euen by the doctrine of the false Churche which though it be so throughly leauened corrupted peruerted abused yet can the Lorde bring the truth of his lawe and gospel which is there read and after their maner preached in such sorte â—o the eares consâ—ieÌ„ces of his chosen as it shal both shew them their degenerate estate â—ow guiltie they are of the breache of Gods lawe howe lyable to his wrath and also shew them the true meanes of their restoring redemption reconciliation saluation Yet this doth neither iustifie the false Minister of his ministration no more then when a young Boye dumbe Minister or vnbelieuing prophane person reading the holie scriptures or some other booke of true doctrine some of the hearers God so opening their vnderstaÌ„ding should therby be brought to the ackowledging and faith of Christ the feare loue of God c. This Boy reading Priest prophane person by reading is proued a true Minister a true preacher a true christian Or these that are thus wonne comforted c to seeke no other Minister or meanes of their saluation then thys reading by these persons Let the doctrine then in that poyncte wherby men are thus begotten to these beginninges of faith or to anie encrease therof be alwaies true and sounde so far foorth the maner tyme of apprehending be the worke and power of God the meanes instrumeÌ„tes of conuaying or bringing variable at the wil appoynctment of God Yet are we only to sâ—eke vse and rest in those meanes which the Lord hath ordayned for our instruction and leading foorth in the wil and wayes of God which meanes only haue warrant promise of blessing vnto vs howsoeuer the Lord by his infinite power and worcking can and no doubt doth saue some in Turckey amongst the heathen in the false Church amongst the false worshippers by what meanes yt pleaseth him yet may not we herevpon either resorte vnto or remaine in these forbidden places in hope of these effectes because God if such be his will can saue vs here or if it be not his will to saue vs theÌ„ no true Church of ministry caÌ„ auaile vs. This were most highly and dangerously to tempt God a reprobate kinde of reasoning God his wil vnto vs is that we alwaies obey and rest in his reueiled wil and not to presume vpon his infinite will and power which he keepeth secret vnto himself This caused the holy Martyres and faithfull at all tymes and vs the Lordes most vnworthy witnesses at
is not vvritten in Hebrew or Greek and mens vvritinges not to be grounded or rested vpon vvhere shall our assurance stand And might not Mr. Giff. as vvel say the Hebrew and Greek Copie are but paper and ynck many faults and errours by the print in vowells accents letters and so conclud vve had not Authentick or canonical scriptures at al except meÌ„s erronious vvritings might be of equall authoritie in the assemblie that the scriptures must he not beare vvith mee in accompting him an Atheist or Libertine in thus reasoning Hence then vve see vvhiles you go about to abase the Canonicall scriptures and extol your patched Leitourgie you fall into manie blasphemies as I haue before told you Wee hold yt the vvord of God in vvhat language soeuer stil reiecting the errours in the print in the translations as they are knowne vnto vs and not to the vvord yt self for the imperfections or errours in the translation and print Now vvhen you can so reiect the errours in mens writings as you can make that vvhich remayneth the vndoubted vvorde of God not agreeable only but an Authentick approued Canonicall scripture authorised from God to be the verie eternall foundation and rules limitts and lawes giuen by himself vnto his people you may lift vp your stumped Dagon into this place if there be some truth in their vvritings as vvhat mens vvritings haue not some and the holy name of God verie much yet is that truth in the Scripture yt self here so mingled vvith chaffe that it vvere not only vnprofitable a hinderaÌ„ce of the true vse of Gods vvorde but an abolishing and defacing of the vvord yt self the maiestie vvhere of ought to terrifie you from this presumption And vvhere you say that you decide not controuersies by anie translation but by the Authentick Copies of the Hebrew and Greke I trust you speak only of such as are able by the interpretation therof so to decide controversies and holde it not vnlawfull for anie such as haue not that help to coÌ„vince errour by the powre of the vvord and conferring one place vvith an other in anie translation according to the analogie of faith though I grant vve ought to vse y â— best approued But if this vvere not lawfull surely no maÌ„ might prophesie in the Church vvhich hath not the gift of interpretion of the tongue neither might any affirme any scripture to be true but they vvich haue knowledg of tongues How blasphemous is this geare vvhiles you are ignorant of the powre wisdome and agreement of the word and spirit and diuersitie of giftes giueÌ„ vnto men the Word the Spirit approue ech other and beare witnesse ech of other in what language soeuer God giueth yt to our vnderstanding Prophesie knowledg of tongues are two seueral giftes not alwayes giuen to one member but distributed as God in his wisdome hath appointed 1 Cor. 12. and prophesie coÌ„manded for the more excellent Cap. 14. But this is sufficient in this place that the word of God is the word of God in what language soeuer and to accompt yt being verbatim translated or at least so far foâ—rth faithfully translated mans writing were blasphemie but mens writings can neuer be so holden the authentick scriptures of God how agreable to the word soeuer they be My Argument is then firme and thus left vpon you Those writings which be not the word of God being imperfect neuer without error may not be imponed as lawes Canons vpon the publick assemblies or there be read or iâ—â—erpreted or offred vp in worship But such are almens writings that be not the authentick word or God yt self The publick assemblies are only bound to the reading interpretation of the Scriptures which God hath ordeined to be read in a knowne language and for prayer prophesie hath ordeined the liuely voice of his owne graces in the mouth of such as he hath appointed to be the mouth of the CongregatioÌ„ vnto him and his mouth vnto them So y â— your paâ—ched Leitourgie paraphrases songes in rime homelies and al your dead mens writings are cast forth of the publick assemblies and manifest to be Idols wheÌ„ they are thrust into that place Now where I alledged that the binding of the publick assemblie yea of all assemblies to certaine writings of men euerie day yeare their number portion of words daylie monthly yearely in al assemblies the same matter an words reiterated in stead of powring forth their hearts vnto God according to their present needs and occasions was a setting of themselues in Gods seate and taking the office of his Spirit which only knoweth the wantes of the seueral assemblies according to their diuerse occasions he runneth away from the matter as one vnwilling to heare of this their 〈◊〉 counterfet babling demanding whether euerie one should vtter their owne perticular wantes in the publick assemblie or should pray nothing but that euerie one feeleth the present want of in himself or should tell the Minister before hand what euerie one of their wantes were then how the Minister should remeÌ„ber al. Are these any thing but mere canils can any of these follow vpoÌ„ the former doctrine And let him looke againe whether he that is the mouth of the CoÌ„gregatioÌ„ vnto God in publick prayer must not coÌ„sider the present publick occasioÌ„s of that publick assemblie and thereafter frame his prayers all the people ioyning in heart to his words of petition or thanksgyuing saying AmeÌ„ to so much as he asketh according to the wil of God neede of the time yea if they haue not feeling in such prayers they are vnfeeling members yet neither doth he intermedle with priuate or secret wantes neither neede they tell him them he is sent for the publick affaires of the Church to coÌ„mend the seueral actioÌ„s general publick vnto God And as they are diuerse in euerie assemblie so must he be a man of wisdome to know see and coÌ„sider them lest they al rashly step into the house of God to offer vp the sacrifice of fooles make a couÌ„terfeit babling Eccle. 4. Yet the sinne of this is nothing coÌ„parable to thâ— doung your Priests cast forth by pratling ouer your English Portuis which yâ—â— Lord wil one day cast in your faces As then in priuate prayer we are to lay forth our owne wantes estate of our owne soule which cannot be done by reading an other mans writings alwayes singing one song customably repeating in superstitioÌ„ certaine words our hearts neuer ripped vp examined nor the diseases therof layd open vnto God seeking due cure So the man that is the mouth of the whole assemblie prayeth as the mouth of one bodie for al their open publick present wantes occasions Which occasions considering the persons actions are diuerse caÌ„not be writteÌ„ for one assemblie before hand muchlesse for all assemblies in a whole kingdome neither by man nor Angel See then the
multitudes without exception anie one person are with them receiued into and reteined in the bozome of the Church 3 FOR that they haue a false Antichristian Ministerie imposed vpon them reteined with them and maintained by them 4 FOR that these Churches are ruled by and remaine in subiection vnto an Antichristian and vngodly gouernment cleane contrarie to the institutioÌ„ of our Sauiour CHRIST VVhen these things stand thus let him that readeth consider THE first Article is that which all Christians doo seek in dead but the kingdome of CHRIST or the kingdome of God as CHRIST saith is within men Yt consisteth in righteousnes peace ioye in the holy Ghost For the preseruation of this CHRIST hath ordeined a Church gouernmeÌ„t They sinne against God which do not couet and according to their calling labour to haue so great a help But to transport the name of Christs kingdome which is spirituall which is in the heart vnto this which is but a part and as though the kingdome of God could not be in anie vnlesse they haue this so they do not wilfully despise yt I say is false and the contrarie to be proued by the Scriptures OVR Article being by you confessed to be the bounden dutie of al true Christians we see not with what equitie you can in this maner cauil at our wordes or with what conscience you can misconstrue and constreine them as you doo seeking therby to retract by sleight what you cannot gainesay in truth And taking occasion to contend about wordes Namely the kingdome of CHRIST You make yt only inward and vse CHRIST as one of the Phisitians planitarie signes assigning to him in hipoctisie your heart soule to rule whilst in y e meane time you yeild your bodies and whole assemblies to the obedience and rule of Antichrist making no coÌ„science to obey his lawes openly and to transgresse Christs thinking belyke Christs kingdome so inward and spirituall as that he requireth no bodily or outward obedience or because yt consisteth of righteousnes and peace and ioye of the holy Ghost that ther may be peace without righteousnes or ioye without peace or inward righteousnes where is such outward disobedience and wilfull transgression But al this is couered and cured at once if so be you couet labour in your calling to haue CHRISTS outward gouernment c. To discusse here how far euerie Christians dutie calling extendeth herein vvere to dismisse all your answers at once and to pluck away the mantle of shame wherwith you couer your nakednes your negligence and all your abhominations In this place therfore we will only ask you these 2 questions First whither anie which haue their calling of Antichrist or be his marked Ministers or waged seruants can truly and vprightly couet labour for the sincere gouernment of CHRIST which is his whipp wherwith he â—kourgeth out all thieues intruders and idle-bellies out of his house The next question is Whither to remaine wittingly and seruilely in the bondage and yoake of Antichrist 29 yeares be to seek labour for the gouernment of Christ faithfully in your callings or to vphold and vndershore the kingdome of Antichrist rather But to transport the name of Christs kingdome which is chiefly spirituall and in the heart vnto that which is but a part c. How diuerslie the kingdome of God is read in the Scriptures we will not contend with you although it were not hard to shew either your ignorance or forgetfulnes herein Only this we say our words can carie no such construction muchlesse such an erronious opinion as you abounding in your owne sense haue not only collect but confuted In the first our words being That we seeke the kingdome of Christ Iesus our Lord cannot be thus restreined to Christs outward orders and gouernment in his Church especially if you had pondered that which followed where in the â— Article after your diuision we haue expressed this point in perticular Neither if we should admit you yâ— interpretation could you collect from thence that the kingdome of God could not be in anie vnlesse they haue this But as we vsually reade in the olde and new Testament Christs kingdome to be taken for his true visible Church here in earth so we acknowledg his vniuersall Church kingdome to extend to all such as by a true faith apprehend confesse Christ howsoeuer they be scattered or whersoeuer dispersed vpon the face of the earth Yet both with this interim without true faith obedience can be no true Church no true Christian. THE 2 Article ought all men that will please God to approue THIS Article you say ought al that wil please God to approue How then seek you to please God vvhich continue in Idolatrie are a Minister therof vvhich prophecie in Baall plead for Baall Or how approue you yt when you condempne vs of schisme and heresie because we forsake your false antichristiaÌ„ worship and seek to worship Christ according to his word THE 3 Article if it be taken in this sense that yee dare set vp a societie seperated from all others vvithin this land vvhich make publique profession then I see not when you haue gon by your selues set vp your Officers how you will cleare your selues from Donatisme If theirs were a damnable fact which God did accurse then take heed to yours for if it can be shewed that their heresies are not holden I will chang my minde THE words of our Article being That we seek the fellowship and communion of Christs faithfull obedient seruants cleare vs of all schisme heresie So that if you would convince vs of these crimes it had bene expedient you had first proued your assemblies as they generally stand by the euidence of Gods word to be true churches of Christ rightly entred keeping couenant with the Lord continuing in the order and obedience of his word c and that we preposterously haue departed from you and vncharitably haue forsaken your fellowship But as soone as you shall shew vs such a church emoÌ„g you by the grace of God we wil shew you how free we are of schisme As likewise when you shall lay open our errors vnto vs how farr we wil be froÌ„ heresie In the meane time we will not cease to pray vnto God for you that he will not lay these sinnes vnto your charge which in your ignorant zeale you commyt but in mercy shew you the feareful estate you staÌ„d in and giue you an heart vnfeinedly to repent speedely to turne vnto him THE 4 Article ought all men to practise so far forth as the limitts of their calling doo extend But let it be shewed that euer priuat men did take vpon them to reforme when things were amisse in the Church or that anie of the Prophetts did wil them to take the matter in hand or shew your warrant that you be not priuat men
right deare and faithful seruant of CHRIST yet Sathan sifted him and he fell Yea we had thought that our Sauiour onlie had receiued this strength and defence against al temptations to sinne assaults c. And that al mortal men had bene dailye subiect to sinne temptation c that our reioycing might be of God and not of our selues and Gods glorie be shewed and perfected through our weaknes If these vanuties of the Bissops were true then might it indeed rightly be called a Confirmation for then such as had that were sure and sure there then to those should be no more vse of CHRISTES merites suffrings or mediation or of Gods mercye But because al men are coÌ„tinuallie prone vnto and euen enclosed and compassed about with sinne whilest they dwel in this mortal flesh and haue continual neede of Gods mercy and vse of CHRISTS merites suffrings and mediation Yea because we see wel nigh al those whom the Bisshops haue thus confirmed to be confirmed in al sinne and wickednes and euen the Bisshops themselues the aucthors of this deuise from whom al this vertue and holines should flowe fourth vnto others to be them-selues the verie synkes draynes of al abhomination corruption idolatrie superstitioÌ„ blasphemie and open transgression of al Gods lawes We are confident in the truth and power of our Lorde IESâ—S CHRIST to witnesse against these abhominable ordinances of Antichrist and against the Church of England for receiuing the same and maintayning the most impious blasphemous doctrines that ensue therof as is aboue proued TO the blasphemous Collects in your Sacraments Booke you wishe we were as weary in lying and sclandering as we should be to seeke finde out one such You haue in rememâ—rance the Collects wherin the Priest by th'aucthoritie committed vnto him doth absolue the sicke of al his sinnes You must not forget your two Cellects said ouer your deade brother The one wherin you praise God for receiuing to mercye his soule liued he or died he neuer so prophane blasphemouse and impenitent a wretch The other wherin you praye for him that you with him may haue a perfect consummatioÌ„ blisse both in bodie and soule Nowe to helpe your memorie a little furder we woulde desire you to consider better of that glorious Antheame you singe or saye in your publique Communion wherin with Angells Arch-Angells and al the companie of heauen you laude magnifie c Wherin we wil not demaunde of you howe whilest you remaine in the flesh you can haue such familiar conversation with those heauenlie souldiours and elect spirits of the faithful deceased that you together with them can praise laude God Nether wil we presse you with the papistical and curious speculations in making digrees of Angells Arch-Angells c. But we would here knowe of you howe manie Arch-Angells you reade of finde in the Scriptures And whether you knowe anie more heades of Angells then Christ himself Exept peradveÌ„ture your Church haue some especial prerogatiue froÌ„ the Apostatical Sea to make Arch-Bisshops and Arch-Angells Your Collect also in baptisme of Sanctifijng the floud Iordan and al other waters to the mistical washing away of sinne some saye sauoreth greatly of Poperye and retayneth the people in a superstitious opinion That the water vsed in baptisme hath holines some especial vertue in yt abâ—â—e common water especially wheÌ„ yt is thus blessed by the Priest and 〈◊〉 out of the hallowed Fonte c. But we wil not presse you herewitâ— nether yet stand to examine your Collect vpon your St. Michael all Angells-Day how you make Michael a creature and Canonize him amonge the Popes Saincts and worship him amongst together with all Angels This shalbe no blasphemie no Poperie in your Church Nether will we stand to vnrip your popish patched Letanie Or shew by what POPE and whie euery part therof was deuised and added And wherfore yt is good As for the quick the deade For al that trauaile by sea or by land For all weomen labouring with childe For all sicke persons and younge children all prisoners and captiues For Bishops Curates For lightnings and tempestes For plague pestilence and famine For battaile and murder and for sodeyne death c. All which things and what ells that you will request at his handes CHRIST cannot but graunt you when you so beconiure him By the mysterie of his holie incarnation by his holie natiuitie and circumcision by his baptisme fasting and temptation by his agonie and bloudie sweate by his Crosse and passion by his pretious death and buriall by his glorious resurrection and assention and by the comming of the Holy Ghost And sweetlie you entreat him by them all seuerally and ioyntely to deliuer you from the euils aboue-said and also from fornication and al other deadly sinnes In which Sofrage we wil not obserue y t you hold some sinnes deadlie and others not deseruing death because you peraduenture can shift it off with learning howsoeuer yt standeth in the Popes booke or they that made it thought of it Onely we obserue that this your holy Letanie is a most rare and especiall confection soueraigne good for all thinges at all times but especially in the morning and therfore it is so ofteÌ„ enioyned to be songe or said in your Church euerie weeke at their mattens Yet was there by what aduenture we knowe not an vnsauorie vnhappie Sofrage stollen into your Letanie in Kinge EDVVARDS tyme Against the tyrannie of the Bisshop of Rome and all his detestable enormities Which Sofrage because it was nether so Canonical or holie nether agreed vnto the rest could not be songe with theÌ„ in tune Or because it was ouer rough doctrine for sondrie of their weake brethereÌ„ that then loued yet loue the POPE anie thing that commeth from him with all their hearte Or ells that which is more likelie ouer plaine doctrine to make the people abhor all their Romish wares marchantmen The worthy Bishops most vigilant Pastors Gouernours of your Church to auoide these inconveniences of their pontificall aucthoritie dismissed yt thrust it quite out of their Lâ—tanie and vtterlie abrogated and razed it out of their Authenticall Leitourgie Wherin nowe it hath bene by these learned men corrected and this perrilous Sofrage thrust out it is impossible to finde ether heresie or blasphemie But caÌ„ there be more horrible execrable blasphemie then thus to coniure exercise Christ by his natiuity circumcisioÌ„ baptisme fasting by his agonie his sweate his crosse his death his buryal c what Coniurers or Enchaunters can exceede this where haue they learned thus to praye thus to dismember distort Christ or thus idolatrouslie to applie and abuse these outwarde thinges which he did or were donne vnto him in the fleshe Why might they not aswel beseech him by his growing in age his walking fleeping weeping c by his crowne of thornes the spondge nayles speare No meruaile
also yet you wil hold no part of that execrable Idoll good The Papistes hange the first wordes of the Gospel after Iohn about their necke for manie purposes shall we not saye that this or their Agnus Dei are abhominable Idolls therfore Coniurers vse diuers Psalmes and scriptures in their magical incantations diuers Collects with as litle euill as most of yours shall we nowe allowe anie part of their Coniurations are they not altogether accursed The Scriptures then we see may be abused yet no way iustifie anie part of the wicked action or naughty thing to which they are applyed The Scriptures are holy good of themselues yet when they are thus violently rent dismembred constrayned peruerted abused ioyned to these idolatries they no way iustifie any part of the vvorship but make the whole more execrable We can saye then that those Scriptures vvhich you thus prophane and abuse to your idolatries aboue-said as your idoll feastes and all your idol vvorship and ministration are in their due place true vse holie reuerend gratious But vvhen they are abused peruerted and ioyned to patch vp this idolatrie they make the whole the more execrable All the Scriptures then of God are holy pure and all the whole Masse-Booke and English seruice-Booke and euerie part therof are detestable Idolls All which Idoll and euery part therof vve can condemne and yet preserue the sacred maiestie and aucthoritie of the Scriptures All this your festered conscience blasphemous mouth could to your furder iudgment confesse in our name though Sathan that speaketh in you by and by sought to quench it by deriding our holie suffrings Our baÌ„des vnto vs are comfortable glorious vnto God and shal rise vp and be produced in iudgment with this idolatrous murderous generatioÌ„ of your horned cleargy But now to the Scriptures be you alledged If you were demaunded where you learned to mumble ouer that Scripture by you falsely caled the Lords prayer fiue tymes in your Morowe-Masse and to vse yt at all assaies to to saye yt ouer the sick ouer the deade ouer the weomen in Churching ouer the marryed c should not your holie Father the POPE be founde the aucthor of all this Also if we should aske you where you reade and how you could proue that blasphemous Article of your faith That CHRIST discended into Hel what scripture could you shew or alleadge for yt Thus are euen those thinges wherof you glorie tourned to your shame if so be that you could be ashamed of anie thing Yet howsoeuer you maye harden your heart and your face against the manifest truth by this sleight discussing of your worship doctrines and administration euen by this litle which is alreadie said all men may discerne what kinde of ministers blinde guides you be Also anie that had but once seene the Church of Rome might easilie by the â—â—ea-spotts freakes you speake of knowe her daughter of England at the first blush For as the Mother such the Daughter is in al her limbes features and proportions Hetherto we haue spoken of some odious fowle faultes and errors in perticular founde in this their worship or Leitourgie the furder examination wherof and searche of the rest that remaine we leaue to the furder diligeÌ„ce of others And nowe touching this their seruice-booke and Leitourgie in general this we saye 1. IN that they presume to giue and enioyne their prescript wordes in praier they take the office of the Holie Ghost awaie quench the spirit of the ministrie and of the whole Church stop and keepe out the graces of God thrust their owne idle deuises vpon the whole Church yea vpon GOD himselfe whether he wil or no 2. IN that bie their Leitourgie they prescribe what and how much to reade at Morne to their Mattens at Eauen c teachinge the Church and ministrie to pray by nomber stint and proportion it is not onely popish but most friuolous and vayne disgracing and not instructing the Church and ministerie 3. IN that by this their Leitourgie they prescribe vnto the Church what Scriptures publiquelie to reade and when to reade them as these Chapters and Psalmes at their mattens before noone those at after noone c On all the dayes that they haue publique meetings and seruice through the yeere and soe from yeere to yeere They therebie take from the Church the holie and free vse both of the Scriptures and spirit of GOD. They therbie conceale and shut out of the Church a great part of GODS holie worde which they reade not As also abuse without order those scriptures they enioyne to be read 4. IN that they shread rend and dismember the Scriptures from the holie Order and natural sense of their context to make them Epistles Gospels Lessons select Psalmes to their festivals and Idol worship aboue-said They most heinouslie pervert and abuse the Scriptures to the high dishonor of GOD their owne feareful iudgment 5. IN that they bring in and commaunde the Apochrypha writings to be publiquelie read in the Church They both mainetaine and publiquelie teach the dangerous errors therin contayned to the poysoning and subverting of the faith of the Church They thrust these deuises of men into the place of GODS worde causing the people therebie to reuerence and esteeme them as the holie Oracles of GOD of like aucthoritie dignitie and truth and to resorte vnto them to builde their faith thervpon and therbie they bring in an other foundation into the Church besides the high iniurie donne vnto GOD therbie 6. FInallie in that by this their Leitourgie they bring in erect and enioyne a new strange kinde of administration as is aboue proued in the perticulars They make and erect a new Gospel and so must needes also erect vnto yt a new ministrie For the ministrie of Christ is only bounde vnto and wil onlie administer by Christes Testament wherein they haue a most perfect Leitourgie for the whole administration of his Church Therfore this present Leitourgie and ministrie of ENGLAND are by al these reasons in general and perticular founde and proued at once to be counterfeite vngodlie and Antichristian His wide friuolous Parenthesis from the 17. page of his booke vnto the 47. touching read prayer and prescript Leitourgies we leaue to be discussed and refuted by an other to whose writinges we referr the Reader Leauing Mr. Giffard and the whole Church of ENGLAND touching this first pointe of their worship to be compassed about with the sparckes and to walke on in the light of the fire that they haue kindled Yet this to them of our hand they shal lye in sorrowe THE SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION IS THAT the prophane vngodlie multitudes without the exception of anie one person are with them receiued into and retayned in the bozome and bodie of their Church IN Mr. Giffard his former answere vnto this Transgression he then not being past al shame confessed That the most Churches in England want godlie
impenitent offendors may be reteyned in the Church as members This he must proue or ells all that he saith is nothing to the purpose seing we chardge their Church as heynously guilty of and wilfully obstinate in these transgressions But insteade of prouing he slilie seeketh to chaÌ„ge the question by turning yt from these open prophane and wicked to Hypocrites wicked persons which remaine in the Church whose children he saith ought to be baptized Wherin besides â—hat he beggeth the question assuming in a stronge imagination that which he shal neuer be able to proue That these parish assemblies are the true plaÌ„ted and established Churches of CHRIST and these vngodly multitudes true members therof he furder so doubleth and windeth betwixt these two starting holes the hypocrites and the prophane as one cannot knowe whereto find him or wherof he affirmeth It being graunted that the children of hypocrites ought to be baptized he wil â—hervpon conclude that the childreÌ„ of the prophane also Which if yt be denied then he wil make no conscience to giue out that we denie baptisme to the seede of Hypocrites in the Church Thus standing vpon no grownde he flitcheth fleeteth vp and downe seeking in an euil conscieÌ„ce to shifte off the truth wherwith he is pressed First presupposing that al these multitudes of prophane wicked are within the Church Then endevouring to proue that al the children of such prophane and wicked as he termeth within the Church and to professe Christ ought to be baptized Wherin before we come to the consideration of his reasons we must note vnto the reader in his Proposition expresse contrarietie error and sacriledge Contrariety in that he with the same mouth in the same senteÌ„ce pronounceth them as prophane wicked and also as faithful and members of the Churh such to whom the Covenante and the seales therof belonge Error in that he thus iudgeth and blasphemeth them if they be faithful members of the Church As on the contrarie if they be prophane wicked to iustifie their profession whilest they are obstinate in such sinnes Yea furder to harden them therin to giue the seale of the Couenante vnto their children in respect of their profession which caÌ„not be donne without open wilful sacriledge for if they be to be iudged prophane wicked then are their children also vntil they make profession of their owne faith to be held of vs as prophane the deuised writteÌ„ professioÌ„ of their Church cannot sanctifie or iustifie either the one or the other vnto vs. Moreouer the Church cannot denie to receaue those Parents or that Parent vnto the communion of the Supper whose infantes they baptize in that estate And thus by Mr. Giffards diuinitie may the bodie and bloude of Christ be prostitute to the open prophane and wicked whom he thus proueth within the Couenant THe interest of Gods Couenant saith he doth not depend vpoÌ„ their next Parents but vpon the antient christiaÌ„s their fore-Fathers For when God saith I wilbe thie God and the God of thie seede the promise is made to a thousand generations Exod. 20 So Leui paied tithes vnto Melchi-sedec because he was the loynes of Abraham Yea al the whole nation of the Iewes were in the loynes of Abraham and therfore holie within the Couenant For if the first fruictes be holy so is the lumpe if the roote be holy so are the boughes Rom. 11. Yea though manie of them were wicked idolatros reprobates yet euen in the worst tymes were they Circumcised and yt was not disalowed But the Lorde caleth the children of those wicked idolators his children Thou hast taken thie Sonnes thie Daughters which thou broughtest fourth vnto me and sacrificed vnto them to be consumed thou hast slaine my Sonnes and giuen them by causing them to passe through vnto them Ezech. 16. 21. BEhold into how manie errors mischieues and blasphemies they fal which in this maner spurne striue against the truth euerie worde becomming a snare vnto them to hold drawe them vnto their greater iudgments If th'interest in Gods Couenant as being the seed of the faithful vnto the sight of the Church depend not vpon the faith of the next parents but vpon the antient christians their fore-Fathers within a thowâ—and generations c Then ought al to be receaued and none to be kept or caste out of the Church Then is the whole world within the Couenant of the Church holie al being â—pronge within far lesse then a thowsand generations of manie faithful and lineallie come from the Patriarck Noah Then ought by this rule the Israelites vnder the lawe to haue circumcised all their captiue Canâ—â—nites and heathen that came into their power Then ought the Church nowe also to baptize all the seede euen of the most wicked and vngodlie whether Turcks Papists Idolators c because they are all â—pronge of faithful Parents within lesse then a thousand generations But because we reade in the Scriptures that Gods Couenant only belongeth vnto the faithful and the seales of his couenant are nowe only committed to his true established Church Seinglawes rules are giueÌ„ by God vnto the Church to whom and how to administer the faid seales Seing none can enter into this Church but by this true outward profession of faith obedience neither anie remaine loÌ„ger there theÌ„ they keepe the said faith and obedience outwardly Seing baptisme only belongeth and is giuen to the members of this Church and vnto their â—eede and can to none other be giueÌ„ without heynouse sinne and sacriledge We doubt not to pronownce and reiect these doctrines of this false Prophet as most blasphemous and diuelish As â—ending to the open breach of al Gods lawes and ordinances to th'vtter abolishing of the truth and feare of Gods iudgments to the taking away of al faith and godlines out of the earth to the bringing in of al Atheisme confusion to the prostituting and prophaning of the holie things of God And therfore al true Christians by the commandment of God are to auoide and hold accursed the aucthor and bringer of such doctrines and so much the rather in that he so wretchedly and bouldly falsifieth dismembreth peruerteth and abuseth the holie Scriptures thervnto AS to proue that the Couenant dependeth not vpon the outward faith of the parents but vpon the faith of their godlie ancestors he voucheth Exod. 20. I wil be thy God and the God of thy Seede the promise is made saith he to a thousand generations But he wittingly suppresseth the next wordes of the sentence of them that loâ—e me and Keepe mie Commandements which shewe to whom this Couenant is made and belongeth and the conditioÌ„ on our part As the former part of this senteÌ„ce verse 5. sheweth howe we may forfeite this Couenant Namelie by breaking and coÌ„temning the lawe of God in whose loue we cannot remaine except we remaine in his obedience Iohn 14. 21. 15. 10. So that the Lorde
continueth in this estate a true established visible church within y e outward Couenāt of God so far as we may ought to iudge by his worde thē doubtlesse for mie part I wil graunt yt a sounde Maior proposition And if he shal bring the church of Rome for instance in the Minor I must then yeild to his argumēt Because y◠church at Rome was sometimes rightly gathered established and within the couenant Yet euen then I suppose yt wil be harde for him to make the like assured proof that euer her daughter of England was rightly established into that christiā order within the couenant But I doubt rather and by her present estate iudge that she was among the childrē of her Mothers fornications and therfore without the Couenant To the second reason it will also hardly followe that because some faithful men haue bene called to some generall knowledge of God and of Christ in this estate and because they in their ignorance cotynued in the same estate that this should therfore iustifie the outward estate of the Church which the worde of God condemneth or prooue yt in this estate the true established Church of Christ when they haue nothing aright according to Christes ordinance as we haue prooued in this treatise whether I refer for a more ful answeare of these reasons hasting to the second poyncte Wherein I before shewed how God commandeth al his faithful seruantes of what estate or degree soeuer to flee out of Babilon the false Church and being escaped not to stand still to remember the Lord a far off to let Ierusalem come into their minde to goe vp to SION to seeke out and to repaire vnto the place where God hath put his name To seek the Church and the kingdome of CHRIST to take his yoke vpon them to assemble together in his name with his promise of direction and protection and with his authoritie to establish his offices and ordinances amongst them giuen by him to the ministrie and gouernmēt of his Church vnto the worldes end there to leade their liues together in all mutuall duties in his holie order faith and feare Now as we shewed all perticular and priuate men whosoeuer to be called out of the false Church from confusion and out of the world from dispersion vnto the true Church vnto order So likewise shewed we that all these faithfull persons whosoeuer were as yet but priuate men at their first comming out of the false Church and gathering together none of them being as yet called to anie ecclesiasticall office or function in the Church yt not being as yet established into order Wherevpon we concluded and still of necessitie enforce That seing God calleth all his seruantes out of confusion and will not haue them liue in dissipation or disorder but only in this order which he hath prescribed in his worde And hath giuen his Church aucthoritie and commandement to erect retaine and obserue this order vnto the worldes end And seeing in this estate the Church now consisteth but of priuate men That therfore the faithfull being as yet but priuate men ought by the commandement of God to assemble ioyne themselues together in the name faith of Christ and in all mutual dueties orderly to proceede according to the rules of the worde to a holy choice vse of such offices ordinances as Christ hath ordayned to the seruice gouernment of his Church And sure were not Mr. G. as forgeatful as he is ignorāt of the scriptures he could not but haue seene by the verie phrase the first proposition confirmed by many scriptures The secōd by many prophecies of this general defection and if not verified in these present tymes yet he cannot denie but some former not long sithence Therefore whilest he fighteth with the conclusiō he but spurneth against the prickes bewraieth the folly of his owne heart and no waye auoydeth or defendeth the daunger therebie His best answeare to this reason or rather manie reasons summed vp is as he thinketh to tourne it away by two questions and by manifold contumelies against our poore persons or to say as yt is by inaudible blasphemies against the Church of God likening the assemblie of the faithful gathered in the name and ioyned together in the faith of Christ proceding to th'establishing and exercise of Christes or dinances to the rebellious company of Corath Dathan Abyram to a rowte of mutynous prentices assembled without leaue of their Prince to chuse a Lorde Maior c. His first question is That if all were priuate at the first comming out of the false Church who they were that caled them together Or whether their cōming together doth make them otherwise then priuate We answeare that for anie thing we can see or may iudge by the word they were but priuate men that first caled them out of the false Church and that caused them to assemble together howsoeuer peraduenture indued with more excellent giftes and more rare graces then other Furder that being thus assembled they ceased not to be priuate men vntil they were lawfully caled vnto some true ecclesiastical office in and by the Church Yet al this notwithstanding the Church in this estate nowe consisting onlie of priuate men ought to procede to a right choice of Ministers c according to the commandement of God His next stombling-block or question is VVho should ordaine these Pastors Elders And whether we euer read of any ordained but by Apostles Euangelistes Pastors Teachers and Gouernours And vvhether that power vvas not at the first deriued from th'extraordinarie Ministers to the Ordinarie To this we haue aboue answered where wee entreated of the ordination of the Ministers of England and here againe doe answere That the Church had alwaies the power to chuse and ordaine their owne Ministers wherevnto yt ought to vse the most fit instruments whether these Pastors Teachers Elders if such be to be had or ells where they be not to be had to vse the fittest meanes and instrumentes that God exhibiteth For this power of ordination is not as Mr. G. and the vnruly cleargie of these dayes suppose deriued from the Apostles Euangelistes vnto the permanent ministrie of Pastors and Elders neither belongeth yt by anie peculiar right to their offices and persons segregate from the Church But yt is giuen by Christ and properlie belongeth vnto the Church wherevnto their Ministrie and persons also belonge and are by the Church to be vsed vnto this worck as occasion is administred And thus if a vaile were not laid ouer Mr. G. his heart at the reading of the scriptures he might finde that those cheife builders the Apostles Euāgelistes themselues vsed this power not to take yt from the Church but therein to assist the Church As we reade Act. 13. Where the Church being assembled vnto fasting prayer and other holy exercises yt is there said also that they layde handes vpon the Apostles and sent them
committed in the Church denijng to reason with you what is to be done in the Church till you haue proued your Church to be a true Church established guyded by the officers and lawes of CHRIST so that all your matter is but the fighting with your owne shadowe and flying the question in hand But my purpose is not to follow your gameplay either to iustifie the Donatistes or those learned Pastors neither to reiect the truthes nor maintaine the errors of either of both sides we haue a better foundation to buyld vpon and a surer word to trust vnto it is because you haue no furniture on your self that you set forth this shew and fight vnder other mens names Your sauour is lost if euer you had salt Looke on one of your Arguments how well it wil prooue your matter The Brownistes vse 5. or 6. places of scripture which the Donatistes vsed therfore the Brownistes be Donatistes Let the Brownistes answere for themselues but sure I must deny both Proposition and Consequence For neither do we agree in the application of these with them neither do we aledge all the same places because we alledge some which they alledged for excoÌ„munication of the open knowen obstinat wicked in the Church or separation from the false Church Neither doth it follow that because we alledge some places they did that therfore we are Donatistes If you allow anie separation from Turke or Pope you must agree with Donatistes in some of these scriptures Esaias 52. 2 Corixth 6. And in this your exquisit search you haue had one place alledged yet now which if you had well looked vpon you would haue bene ashamed to haue compared vs to the Donatistes It is written Reuel 18. 2. 3. 4. 5. verses c where your mother Church of ROME with all her Daughters is proclaymed no longer to be rested in or communicated with If your assemblies be such a cage stand in such confusion haue the same ministerie lawes worship c then we must come out of her Where in consideration that you would conningly turne away all places that commaund a separation by other mens expositions and haue not managed your cause in your owne name I will brieflie demaunde whither you wil maintaine these doctrines or no For the convincing whereof I shall either refer you to our haÌ„dling of the 4. transgressions or els gyne you answere when you deale perticularly in your owne name First beginne to set downe vnder your owne hand that these scriptures Come out froÌ„ emongst them Depart out of her Separate your selues c are not vnderstood of a separation both of bodye and minde SecoÌ„dly that the Minister being a swearer drunkerd couetous worldling c he continuing obstinate in his sinne in that estate may be suffred to administer and the godly may coÌ„municate with him in sacramentes and prayer Thirdly that it is lawful for the Minister to delyuer the parties to receiue the people to coÌ„municate with open knowen vnrepentant professed whoremasters multitudes of wicked Fourthly that open sinne may be tollerated in the assemblie Fiftly that when open sinners be common and such persons manie it were no safe to vse the censures of the Church Sixtly that ther may be a separating in heart and coÌ„ming out from them in minde with whome we coÌ„municate in the Church That ther is no polution participation or coÌ„municating with other mens sinnes but either by doing the same euill or consenting in heart to the euill and though they remaine in their open filthines vnrepentant our communicating with them in the sacrament or prayer or the priestes delyuerie of the Sacrament vnto them is no reioycing with them in their sinne no communicating with other mens sinnes no allowance or consenting or approuing of them in euill nor no sinne or transgression in vs. That they which are the Temple of the lyuing God and in the middest of a crooked peruerse nation apearing as lightes in the world hauing the word of life nothing can infect them which they tollerat for vnities sake neither are they put vp in anie straight because God dwelleth in them and walketh amongst them That to separat from such a peruerse and crooked generation were dangerous lest we should separat in spiritual separatioÌ„ from the good such separation were seditious That Dauid was not separat in body from the open wicked vncleane in the sacrifice in his dayes That Isâ—ias himself in one Congregation with them did touch the vncleannes which he reproued in the people That the Apostle Paule the Church of Corinth did tollerate communicate with such as coÌ„mitted fornicatioÌ„ though they repented not but continued in their sinne after due admonition That in policie for feare of schisme excommunication may not be vsed against open obstinat sinners but they may be tollerated communicated with of the godly That when he which for some notorious crime is reprehended hath the multitude his companion it is not healthful to reprehend or excoÌ„municat but to tollerat That the cause person of the tares being vnderstood of the open wicked and vnrepentant doth not preiudicate the cause and person of the wheate growing together in the field and whither you will interpret this of the Church That the cause person of the chaffe doth not preiudicat the cause and person of the corne being together in the same floore vntil the last wynowing the same of the goates sheepe in the pastures the fishes good bad in the net the vessells of honour dishonour The causes person of the chaffe bad fishes goates vessells of dishonour being vnderstood of the open knoweÌ„ wicked whore-masters murderers heretickes Idolators c and the field floore pastures net howse c of the apparant Church and make the inhibition of plucking vp the tares a coÌ„mandement then is not only the censures of the Church admonition excommunication c but the vse of the magistrats sword not only needlesse but vtterly vnlawfull to be exercised against anie transgression Let Mr. GIFFARD see how he is plunged in Anabaptistrie Athisme and blasphemous contradiction of the whole reueiled will of God for the cutting downe of sinne But let Mr. GIF or his Ordinarie in their owne name subscribe these foresaid Positions and he shal heare our answere We wil not confute them in the persons of dead men We then conclude this point thus that Mr. GIFFARD hath ignorantly skambled about the sinnes arising in the Church and the order of reprehension when all our question is of a separation from a false Church consisting of the world of Athiestes Papistes heretickes and all sortes of prophane not gathered vnto CHRIST So that he hath but fought with his owne shadow in comparing vs to the Donatistes in this poinct Againe al Augustines reasons are against separtioÌ„ in y e Church without discreet and orderly vsing of the power of CHRISTs by the censure of excommunication wheras you all confesse you haue no
innovating of his Testament examine which you shall soone perceiue if you looke but what CHRISTS perpetual ordinances offices officers and lawes for the guyding ordering and gouerning of his Church be prescribing euerie one their place dutie limites ioyntly seuerally and not finde your ministerie registered there but a strange Leitourgie and worship borrowed from the Pope which came out of the bottomlesse pit confesse your sacriledge in suppressing CHRISTS whole ministerie and ordinances and erecting an other for the perpetuitie of his euen to euerie naile and pyâ— The holy Ghost sheweth that only to be his ministerie till we be all a perfect body in him and his whole ministerie and ordinances a kingdome that cannot be shaken Hebr. 12. Ephes. 4. a commandement to be kept vndefiled till the apearing of IESVS CHRIST his Scepter an euerlasting Scepter the Sonne as faithfull in his house as MOSES a seruant in the Tabernacle who made all things according to the paterne So that it is to be woÌ„dred Mr. GIFFARD should think anie part of Christs gouernment should not be perpetuall that was giuen by his Apostles the master buylders and layers of the foundation wherby all actions should be tried to y e worlds end May not Mr. Giff. as wel cal into question the perperuitie of the Testament as the lawes rules for the gouernment of his Church Now if your whole false Hierarchie Offices Officers Lawes Worship be plainly other theÌ„ CHRISTS as in our other writings are proued and shame will inhibit you to denye how can you be so drunke with the cup of the Whores fornication to think you haue no constitutions lawes or traditions which are a part of worship and against such rules of CHRISTS gouernment as the Apostles haue prescribed for the ordring of his howse and the same ordeyned for all Churches til we become all a perfect bodye in him But if Mr. GIFF. wil shew himself so voide of al conscience and truth to say al their traditionall worship and Antichristian Offices and ordinances be neither part of their woship nor constitutions disanulling the ordinances of Christ yet wil be confesse I doubt not this kinde of worship and gouernment to be imposed as matters to binde the conscience being all the â—eruice of God they haue seeing hee woulde also haue all that obserue them not to be censured and excommunicat for this merchandize yt were a sore matter a man should be cut off from Christ and his Church gyuen ouer to Satan and the iâ—dgment ratified in heauen against soule and bodye for a matter that byndes not the conscience As though the soule bodye howsoeuer some things perteine to the one or is done by the one as proper worke thereof were not both to be counted wheÌ„ the conscience shalbe opened to answere for all done in both or by eyther of both even whatsoeuer wee haue done in soule and bodye and Calvine would but diuide the soule and the bodye in Ciuile causes But Mr. Giffard would goe a note further namely that in the seruice of God in such causes as the transgression deserue excommunication to be no matter bynding the conscience But it may be Mr. Giff. doth suppose that except the constitutions ecclesiasticall be such as righteousnes be commanded to be fought in the doing them and forgiuenes of sinnes and merit by them all is wel Then besides the other abuses granted he must be demanded whither those traditions of the Fathers which our Sauiour Christ and his Disciples refused to obserue were imposed as meritorious whervnto wee answere No For in the superstitious washings of cuppes of beddes with al such trincketts wee see to be no such matter Marke 7. and Christs words in saying they layde the commaÌ„demeÌ„ts of God aside to set vp their owne traditions doth shew wherin the sinne was namelie to do and obserue such things of vaine glorie superstition or custome as God had not inioyned them and to leaue vndone the lawes and commandements of God which sinne is your transgression at this day Reade therfore the 7. of Marke 15. of Mathew more diligently Further those superstitious traditions Gal. 4. Colos. 2. the obseruing wherof were the denyall of Christ were neither held meritorious nor iustificatioÌ„ sought by them manie of them being Iewish ceremonies sometimes as rudiments commanded of God now abolished and no further burden to be layde in such outward thinges no We reade not that the law of God yt self was eyther commanded or so obserued as to seeke righteousnes by yt Now then to the matter Mr. Giff. thinketh CHRIST and his Apostles did well in refusing to obey the traditions of the Fathers at the Pharisies commandement and so must confesse it lawful and a dutie of vs to refuse to obserue your Iewish cerimonies and Romish superstitious traditions which are so manie as euen your whole Leitourgie and worship conteine nothing els Gods lawes and ordinances not only left vndone but al that pleade for them and seeke to walke in them persecuted with deadly hatred And how Mr. Giff. will proue that there is no adding or diminishing to or from the word of God by imposing and creating more lawes then God hath made in his vvorship and gouernment of his Church but such as bee made part of the vvorship or bynde conscience or bee meritorious or against such rules of his gouernment as bee perpetuall though I take all your orders lawes vvorship in this compasse yet howe you can poue this I know not for looke againe vpon the scriptures Pro. 30. 5. 6. Deâ—â— 4. 2. 12. 32. and. Gal. 3. 15. Reuel 22. 18. 19. and you shal finde that to add superordeine innovate or diminish or take anie thing from the lawes of God already prescribed for his vvorship were to abrogate his lawe to laye further burdens then hee hath layde to make his lawe vnperfect and set our selues in his seate yea vvhatsoeuer wee put to vvhich hee hath not commanded or whatsoeuer wee inhibit that hee hath commanded is here forbidden For this saith the Lorde Ye shall put nothing vnto the vvord vvhich I command you neither shall you take ought therefrom that you may keepe the preceptes of the Lorde your God vvhich I commande you Deut. 4. 2. And that this was as well in the outwarde ordinances of the Temple as in the iudgments is plaine in the first verse Againe in the 12. Chap. 32. VVhatsoeuer I command you take heede you do yt Thou shalt put nothing therto nor take anie thing therfrom and in the Prouerbs Euerie vvord of God is pure put nothing vnâ—o his vvordes lest hee reproue thee and thow bee found a lyer Now the scripture speaking so absolutely and generaly against al addition or detraction to or from his ordinances Mr. Giff. ouershooteth himself of his bare word to contradict and limit so expresse commandementes for these scriptures saith hee are against adding of humane preceptes and lawes to bee kept as partes of Gods
vvrship to bynde the conscience to seeke righteousnes forgeuenes of sinne merit in them or against such rules of gouernment as God hath set to be perpetuall This is true but this is not all for the lawe is generall against all inventions traditions constitutions vvhatsoeuer God hath not commanded as the second Commandment doth also teach Thou shalt not make to thy self so y t God hath left nothing to be layde vpon his Church by coÌ„mandement which he hath not coÌ„manded And therfore that place of the Apostle to the Gal. 3. 15. must be better pervsed If it be but a mans Testament vvhen yt is confirmed no man doth abrogate yt or superordeine anie thing to yt CHRISTS Testament then being much more perfect his vvhole minde for the ordering of his house manifested therin it is wicked presumption to alter the ordinances thereof or to holde them vnmeete or vnsufficient for anie age or estate Well Mr. GIFF. coulde nowe bee content thus far to limit the povver of the Church namelie to haue her subiect and obedient to his voice but that he supposeth there may be lawes ecclesiastical made of things in themselues indifferent that where the scripture hath commanded such things to be vsed at our libertie for order for comelynes edification and glorye of God as matters of place time and such circumstance But hee here mistaketh his text for the Lorde commandeth by the Apostle in that place 1 Corint 14. that those publique busines and exercises of the assemblies shoulde be done in order in comlynes to edifijng and doth not leaue somthing to bee commanded vvhich the maister buylders hath not prescribed For to binde those thinges by lawe vvhich God hath not bound in his worship wee are to add new traditious to bring vs into bondage of the creatures vvhich the same Apostle denyeth euer to bee brought into bondage vnto 1 Corint 6. 12. in his owne person teaching vs so to walke the Lord see in his wisdome cause to leaue them in our libertie knowing there vvoulde bee no end of such perticular lawes especially if he had left it to mans wyt to make and vnmake lawes therin For the orders you speake of then meaning circumstances of time place kneeling sitting standing c there can be no further lawes of them then the Apostle hath set and as the Minister of CHRIST prescribed that al be donne to edifying in comlynes order c. Of theis to set perticular lawes vvere to break these general lawes of God whereby he teacheth vs the true vse of them and leaueth them in the Churches libertie as need requireth to vse them or not vse them Neither can all assemblies bee bound in these thinges to the same in perticular that being needfull and decent in one that is not in an other And in that you woulde haue them no further commanded then they bee needfull convenient decent c you condiscend that there can bee no setled lawe in perticular layde vpon the Church in them For to vse them so far as they bee convenient necessarie and to edifijng is the lawe and commandement of God and to vse them further at anie mans commandement were both a breach of Gods lawe and making the creatures stumbling blockes Idolles bondages and euerie way sinnefull And when the Church commandeth them so far to be vsed as they are commanded of God the Churche doth but ratifye and see Gods lawe executed so that you haue lost your selfe whiles you shoulde haue proued your bold assertion That the Church hath power to ordeyne lawes for to create or make lawes which you see the folly of being nowe driuen to another shift that in the perticular thinges vvhereof God hath giuen generall lawes wee may make setled lawes and yet but for the tyme they be convenient Wheras in deed Gods lawe is the same and nothing ells But because they bee necessarye in one place that bee not in another at one tyme that bee not at another of some persons that bee not to other ther can bee no lawe sett in the perticular one daye for all assemblies in such thinges Neither shall anye disagreement bee such amongst the seueral Churches as need anye contention for them vvhiles euerie assemblye doe that vvich is to themselues most meet most convenient and necessary in such things for the present tyme. The Pastor and Elders vvere of small discretion if they might not haue these thinges in their libertie and euen these doctrines and examples are in this point against your selfe vvhich you haue alledged from other Churches But my purpose is not to contend about mens writings nor to be draweÌ„ into coÌ„trouersie with other Churches wheÌ„ I am to deale with your present sinne for the auoiding wherof you thus rage If your cause be good plead it by y e scriptures and I wilbe so farre from casting out darts against al Churches as I wil not deale with their estate till I be further occasioned the rather may I omitt this labour for that you haue alledged one place of scripture which you suppose wil beare â—p all your matter If yt helpe you not I see not how you wil deâ—end your assertion In the 15. of the Acts where it is said the Apostles Elders and brethren at Ierusalem met about the question of Circumcision and other Ceremonies of Moses lawe which some would haue burdened the Gentiles with we see there saith he that the Apostles themselues did decree some thing for y e time which afterward were to be altered when the occasion vvas taken away namelie that the Gentiles should absteyne from blood and from strangled for auoiding offence to the weak Iues. First let vs see what the decree was and then it will appeare how litle yt serueth Mr. Giff. his purpose these be the wordes Act. 15. 28. 29. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to vs to lay no more burden vpon you then that vvihich is necessary of these thinges to absteyne from Idolothytes and from blood and from strangled and from forâ—iâ—â—tion froâ— vvhich keeping your selues yee doe vvell For one of these which is fornicatioÌ„ we haue here no question it being by the moral lawe alwayes forbiden For the other Mr. Giffard would thus reason The Apostles themselues did decree them for the tyme therfore the Church hath power to make and ordeyne lawes in things of themselues indifferent about the worship of God and publick exercises For our answere wee vvould haue Mr. Giff. first learne that he in saying y e Apostles themselues did this by the direction of the holy Ghost hath ouerthroweÌ„ himselfe for these were the Maister builders appointed of God to be law makers for the whole Leitourgie and vvorship of CHRIST to all posterities euen all the lawes and ordinances of the newe Testament confirmed by miracles from heauen deliuered by their ministery vnto vs It vvill not follow then if the Apostles had made and ordeyned some lawe here that therefore euerie Synode or anie Synode