to draw them to their purpose as namely in their late Testament applying that which is spoken of Christ Heb. 4. 16. to the Pope whiche they make the Epistle at their Masse for the election of the Pope reade He. 4. their annotations vpon the fift 7. 9. 10 and 11. c. The places therefore of Theoderet and Augustine concerne not vs but rather such wretches as your selues are who haue ouerthrowen that true sacrifice of the new Testament in deede Nowe though by his owne confession he might haue made an end and for the goodnesse of the matter might in deede haue put vp his pipes long agoe yet here wee haue a 〈◊〉 onset concerning their reasonable offers of tryall and that wee admit none We forsooth name scripture in woordes to no purpose seeing the controuersie is about the sense Wherein wee say they admit no iudge but our selues Wherein he saith no otherwise but thus that for the sense wee must not goe to the Scriptures but to them who are for sooth the church and then that wherewith he chargeth vs falleth flat to his owne head Again he is greeued that if they bring scripture wee shift it of with some 〈◊〉 interpretation Wherein we know not what hee woulde haue vnlesse he woulde haue vs to admit whatsoeuer they bring without interpretation But he belyeth vs when hee saith wee shifte it of All heretikes as themselues will alleadge the wordes of the Scripture but they will not way the circumstances nor admit one place to bee 〈◊〉 by another but abuse the Scriptures dallying with them as their forerunners did in the 7. session of that trifling Nicene councell in 〈◊〉 of images to their owne destruction Concerning that the fathers wrote in the praise of virginitie it cannot 〈◊〉 denied but they were to excessiue that wayes wee also prayse the gift in them that haue it and yet we derogate not from holy matrimonie wee dare not affirme that to liue in matrimonie is to liue in the flesh as some of their Popes and others haue wickedly done The place of the 19. of Matthewe is as yll applyed of you as may bee For the purpose of Christe in that place is to take away that offence that was obiected by the Disciples that if they might not put away theyr wiues as Moses had practised then it were not good to marry But Christe sheweth that all are not capable of that saying but to whome it is specially giuen There are in deed 〈◊〉 from their birth and Eunuches made by men and Eunuches which for the kingdome of heauen sake haue gelded themselues that are vnfit for mariage and neede not that remedie either in respect of themselues or in respect of the gist of GOD but what maketh this against the lawfull and honourable ordinance of God appointed to all that haue neede of it Againe that of the Apostle 1. Cor. 7. ver 38. is a conclusion in respect of circumstances that went before and not simply in it selfe For if they haue not the gifte whether they haue vowed or not vowed let them marrie It is better to marrie then to burne your doctrine of forbidding marriage to your vowed creatures is the doctrine of Diuels It hath beene the sincke of the whole worlde and the cause of vnspeakable abhominations Reade into what 〈◊〉 your Pope Nicholas fell affecting this sole life forgette not Paules young Widdowes that hee mentioneth 〈◊〉 Timothie 5. Reade Epiphanius Cyprian lib. 2. Epist. 11. aniste or an Assumptionist shewe mee what was his order Tell vs who they were that helde of him or of his name and office were called Baptistes vnlesse they were some heretike and whether it were not safer to followe the best I meane Christe then Iohn wee knowe Christe had his Disciples and so had Iohn but Iohn sent his Disciples to Christe and kept none from him And though you name Elias Iohn Baptist c. as patrones of Monkerie yet some attribute theyr beginning to the Essaeis whome Philo in 〈◊〉 of his Countrie men the Iewes describeth to haue beene the streightest and holiest order and some ascribe their beginning to Marke some to one some to another But yet I pray you tell vs by what authoritie you can frame vs so infinite a number since without any father or author in the scripture far vnlike those that in time of persecution for sauing of their liues liued in such solitarie places For your number groweth so great that I thinke they cannot well bee reckoned and these latter as that pretende to followe Iesus our Lorde and Sauiour whome they forgate all this while to make their patrone exceede all others and the 〈◊〉 are but drudges in comparison of them vnlesse these last gay Anuncianistes put them out of countenance Euery particuler company haue a peculiar patrone and according to their Cities and Townes so are their Goddes Euerie Citie euerie Churche euery vyllage euery house and euery man worshippeth a peculiar patrone euen as you appointed to euerie disease sickenesse and daunger a peculiar Sainte and these in necessitie must be called vpon as singuler Saviours And as your Goddes patrones and heades were infinite so are your meanes to saluation diuers and variable to wit by woorkes of supererogation by pardons from Rome by Masses almes deedes building of Churches putting on coules washings whippings and a thousande suche trumperies Your rules and orders in your seuerall Monkeries and fraternities were of as great diuersitie in your 〈◊〉 ceremonies as many as there are colours in the raynebowe 〈◊〉 yet all must merite saluation yea and Cardinall Hosius dareth affirme that these diuers kindes of worshippes deuised of men are more acceptable then if 〈◊〉 were commaunded of GOD because they are voluntarie 〈◊〉 doone without constrainte And surely as these monastical sectes are variable so they are together by the eares one with another about their prerogatiues who shal exceed others in the worthinesse of merites Doe not all the world know how the Priests and Chanons rayle vppon you Iesuites for 〈◊〉 late deuised order from Layolas the souldier And besides other thinges doe they not complaine of you that whilest you woulde be accounted poore yet you lye in wayte for the wealth and riches of the whole worlde and vnder the colour of lacking all things you possesse all commodities whatsoeuer And that there haue growen such a number of sectes and orders that your Popes and their councelles haue made canons against them it is plaine and euident Concerning the real presence for which you vrge Luther against vs with whom yet you doe not agree it is worthie no answeare That spiritual presence which Ambrose 〈◊〉 Epiphanius and Chrisostome in the places by you alleadged doe mainteine we maynteine and confes We beleeue such a presence as is aduouched to be in all Sacramentes we looke not to reason nor to our senses but to Faith but wee may not destroy the nature of
they be As for other thinges without that compasse we refuse not such trials as are 〈◊〉 for them also But he sayeth This is a shifte common to all 〈◊〉 suche as Maister Charke is And the cause thereof Augustine doth testifie of the Heretikes of his time But first he should haue prooued vs Heretikes and then haue giuen vs that name August testifieth truely that al Heretikes abuse the letter of the Scriptures as doe the Papistes Anabaptists Familie of loue and such others But is not this a good 〈◊〉 Heretikes catche at the letter and wordes of the Scriptures to mainteine their errors Ergo the scriptures are not the touch stone to try al spirits by yea but 〈◊〉 are other thinges to trie the meaning of the scriptures by what are they Forsooth the sense of the Churche Of what churche Forsooth of that Synagogue of Rome of her Doctours of her generall councelles and such like conspiracies and I cannot tell what As though the scripture written by Gods spirite shoulde bee expounded by the spirites of men and of such Erroneous men as from time to time by the scriptures haue been founde to 〈◊〉 the sonne of God as though there should bee vncertaintie in GOD and certaintie in these men Emptinesse in 〈◊〉 writings of the Apostles and 〈◊〉 in their balde and absurde 〈◊〉 especially when they haue deliuered That the Scriptures are to be fitted to the tyme and to be vnderstood 〈◊〉 so that at one time they are to be expounded according to the vniuersal currant rite or ceremonie But if that ceremonie be changed then the sentence is to be changed Againe if the Churches iudgement be changed why then Gods iudgemēt is also changed Farther the scripture as touching the letter is not of the essēce of the church which may be vtterly destroyed by a Tyrant but it is the spirit that quickeneth 〈◊〉 Prierias Eckius Hogstratus holde that the Pope alone may determine all matters of faith and that the Pope may expounde the scripture as he wil. Habet authoritatem interpretandi sacram Scripturam authoritatinè pro suo sensu Therefore what may we hope for concerning the Synagogue of Rome that challengeth to be iudge ouer all seeyng it is prooued by the practise of it that sometime they interprete the scripture one waye and somtime another as afterwardes may appeare by their contradictory doctrines But here M Defender putteth downe three causes why these newe Teachers appeale 〈◊〉 to Scripture Wee must by the way endure 〈◊〉 names without anie proofe when it is euident that they are the newe Teachers and we the old teaching the same doctrine that Moses the Prophetes Christ his Apostles and all holie Martyrs haue taught and professed according to that worde 〈◊〉 the beginning of the world and they resisting it and persecuting it But what are these three Forsooth the first is to gette credite with the people The seconde because we woulde exclude Counselles Fathers and Auncetours of the Churche who from time to time haue declared the true sense of scripture vnto vs that wee might haue libertie and authoritie to make what meaning wee list and thereby giue colour to euerie fansie wee list to teache The thirde because wee woulde deliuer our selues from all ordinaunces or doctrines lefte vnto vs by the first pillers of Christe his Churche not expressely set downe c. For the first whether it bee a way to get credite to cleaue to the worde of GOD with the common people let them iudge that knowe howe contrarye it is to mans corruption onelye to relye vppon it Indeede it deserueth credite with all when they shall see that wee iustifie God in his woorde and forsake our owne testimonies and the testimonies of 〈◊〉 and blood 〈◊〉 who made him a God to knowe our purpose and to enter into our heartes We leaue it to all the worlde to iudge whether they hunt not more for the prayse of the 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 of men then we doe who like proude Pharisies doe whatsoeuer they doe to be seene of men and to be praysed of them And therefore bring the scriptures of God into captiuitie vnder men and vnder their interpretation to flatter them withall And so in other thinges they fast and praye openly at euery piller and euery streete they giue their almes like 〈◊〉 blase their vainglorious good woorkes to all men c which also sheweth the purpose of their heart For the second touching Councels Fathers 〈◊〉 c. Wee indeede exclude them from being eyther aboue or equall with the worde of God we make them not Iudges though some tymes in matters of storie to shewe the practise of the Churche wee admitte them for witnesses The 〈◊〉 is because Generall councelles haue erred and haue beene one agaynst another one Doctour agaynst another and diuers tymes against them selues The seconde Councell of Ephesus was agaynst the Councell of Chalcedon the one condemning and the other absoluing Eutiches The second of Nice 〈◊〉 that of Franckford about images The first of Nice and those of 〈◊〉 Mentz and of Carthage about the marriage of Ministers Those of Constance and Basill against those of Florence and Trent about your holy fathers vsurped Supremacy and so of diuers others Concerning Fathers and Doctors whether you meane the former or the later it is so also of them For if councels gathered together in the name of God hearing eche others reasons and debating matters for finding out of truth haue yet thus iarred to the end we should not rest vpon them as iudges but onelie vpon the Scriptures what are wee like to finde amōgst men yea amongst the eldest and what then amongest the latest If in the eldest as in Irenae the errour of the Chiliastes in Cyprian Anabaptisme in Tertullian the heresie of Montanus that there should come a new holie Ghost a new Prophesie also condemning seconde marriages and denying it to be lawful to flie in time of persecution In Origene in finite which Hierom writing to 〈◊〉 hath noted before vs and so in all the rest howe may wee bee iudged by them we speake not of those that you count errours but suche as are errours indeede both with you and vs. What shal we say then of Thomas and Scotus and your other schoole men foole men What shal wee say of your other late writers of your Popes of their Canons in al times It would fil a whole volume to declare al their errours and dissentions O But we cleaue to onely scripture that we might deliuer our selues from traditions which you call ordinaunces and doctrines of men and surely we haue also good cause so to do For as they are infinite variable so also they are impious and ridiculous neither fitte nor possible to be kept If any can be proued out of the word of God as deriued from those first pillers of his Church containing in
the same thing to trouble the Readers I omit As for general Councels which you say you admitte and refuse none that euer antiquitie vsed for the trial of a Catholique and Hereticall Spirite I aunsweare that though you sayde true as you doe not yet these can bee no safe wayes to trie the trueth by for as hath beene sayde afore these haue beene contrary one to another and as there haue beene more then one Pope at once so there haue beene Councelles according to their seuerall factions in those same Schismes the moste and greatest and of longest continuaunce in your Church that euer were in anie Churche in the worlde Besides that they haue erred in greate and weightie matters and most of all your late Chapter of Trent whither if wee had vppon your safe conduite come wee shoulde haue had the same intertaynment that Iohu Husse and Hierome of Prague had comming to the councell of Constance against your faith and promise which you aduouch is to bee holden or broken as shall bee best for the commoditie of the church And this is your receiued doctrine that no promise is to bee kept with an heretike and wee are as you say heretikes therefore you are not bound to stande to any promise you make vs. This is not onely practised by your Pope and his Cardinalles but also by such popishe Princes as stay vpon this his doctrine and direction And yet for all this great bragge it is plaine that you admit no generall councels but wherein they resist your errour you resist them As for example you refuse the councell of Franck ford because it determined against the worshipping of Images that of Nice that permitted Ministers to marry those of Constance and Basill that subiected the Pope vnder the Church and made him equall with other Bishops that of Carthage also that curseth him that calleth himselfe vniuersal Bishop which your Pope doth and all the rest if there be any point maintained against your popish religion Concerning the Doctors which you bring againe and againe to fill vp your booke sufficient hath beene saide before And yet wee say Augustine did well in vrging Iulian the Pelagian with the consent of the Fathers and so did Theodosius to hearken to Sysinninus and Nectarius good aduise against the Arrians For the consent of holy fathers professing the truth against errours and heresies is not lightly to bee esteemed Neither did we set light by that common iudgemente of these Orthodoxall and sounde fathers that haue liued before vs especially because their iudgement is grounded vpon the Scriptures But what serueth this to binde vs against the truth for tryall of it to bee iudged by men full of errours and seeing that immediatly after the Apostles times the churche was combred with many heresies I suppose in the first foure hundred yeeres there were not so fewe as foure hundred heresies all disagreeing one from another and all dissenting from the truth of God In which time yet God raised vp many notable and singulerinstrumentes that helde vp right the glorious profession of the Gospell whereby they resisted these heresies and errours and not by their owne worde or by their owne authoritie For how can these bee any warrant or strength of that hope which is for euer Such presumption hath notbeen founde in Gods children but in those of your fort who haue lifted vp your selues aboue Angels and made your selues Iudges ouer the lawe of God As for vniuersalitie antiquitie consent succession of Popes which you haue neuer done with and bring so often sometime as markes and sometime as tryalles as you doe in this place they are nothing to the purpose For Vniuersalitie whiche you call multitude is rather a marke of the Diuels Synagogue then of the Church of Christ. Mat. 7. 13. as for the Churche of Christe it is a little flocke neither doth the woorde Catholique whiche signifieth vniuersall helpe you one whit whereby is noted not a multitude but that how many or how fewe soeuer wee are haue beene or shall be heereafter that professe the Gospell of Iesus Christe wee make all but one Church So that the name Catholique 〈◊〉 all Christians that euer haue beene are or shalbe and agreeth as vnfitly to you as generall to particuler the whole Churche to Rome which is but a Citie and a lesse corner of the worlde then was that part of Affricke wherein the Donatistes would haue shut vp the vniuersall Churche As for departing we haue no otherwise departed from you then you are departed from the Church by whom is verified that which was prophesied that many should fal in the last times from the faith and giue heede to spirites of errour And the same helping causes that helde Augustine to continue his sincere profession against the Manichees doe also holde vs for we are in deede true Catholikes and you heretikes wee are retained in the lappe and bosome of the Church sucking that pure and vndefiled milke and you are in the lap of a strumpet drawing the filth and corruption of mans superstition and abhomination wee haue the consent of all peoples and nations that are gathered by this voice with vs and you ioyne in the conspiracie and treason of all that are stiffnecked and rebellious against the Gospell In whose 〈◊〉 though there be no end yea though we be but an handfull in respect of your confuse heape yet we haue the consent and you the dissent we are Catholike and you schismaticall rent from the fellowship and body of Iesus Christe The place of 〈◊〉 which you alleadge is plaine for vs. For speaking of the true Catholike church of Christ whereof wee are members wee also holde it very needefull that wee retaine that truth whiche hath beene is or shall bee retained of all or moste Christians But Vincentius is not of minde that wee shoulde follow the most the eldest and the greatest consent as thinges to trie the truth of God by and as they are considered in themselues For who knoweth not that the most are worste that errour is very olde and there may be and is many times consent in iniquitie as well as in veritie I am 〈◊〉 that Antichriste hath beene in the worlde these thousande and fiue hundred yeeres Ioh. 2. 18. The misterie of iniquitie beganne to worke and preuaile euen in Saint Paules dayes 2. Thes. 1. 2. and in deede this is the antiquitie of your Romishe Churche whereof you so muche boaste That the corruption of it in that Antichristian pride and ambition that inuaded it and by little and little afterwardes crept along till it had ouercome and choked it till that abhomination of desolation foretolde was nowe placed in that holy place and temple of God not so much consisting in the remouing of those first sacrifices of the lawe seruice then established as in bringing in a Maozim and vnblooddy sacrifice such as Christe neuer instituted I meane that
abhominable Idol of the Masse As for their authoritie out of their counterfet Hyppolitus whose testimonie yet they wrest against vs it cannot bee admitted for currant As for the antiquitie of our Churche wee proue it by the Testament of 〈◊〉 Christe And where the doctrine of this is confessed and receiued they cannot denie but there is the Church of God My sheepe saith Christ heare my voice they followe me and I giue them euerlasting life In deede it is not alwayes so visible vpon earth neither needeth it such a visible heade as the Pope is to whome as Saunders saith it must bee ioyned or els bee schismaticall It is enough that Christe is the head thereof to comfort it leade it and teach it Wee know that in the worlde iniquitie shall abounde All nations shall bee persecuted that loue his name Mat. 24. 9. And Paule mentioneth that there shall come an Apostacie before the comming of Christe that is a falling away of men from Christe to Antichriste 2. Thessa. 2. 4 1 Tim. 4. 2. and Saint Iohn saith that the kings of the earth and all nations shall worship Antichriste Apocalips 13. 16. and 18. 3. That also the churche for a time shall bee so hid and inuisible in the earth that Christe fore warneth his to beeware of them as of lyers that shall say Heere is Christe or there is Christe as it were to point out by places where the churche is Matthew 14. 23. And hee hath not appointed it to bee knowen by such 〈◊〉 Luk. 17. But as he saith where the carkasse is thither will the Eagles bee gathered so where Chiriste is holden by faith there is his churche which though oftentimes we see not in that beautie and glorie that were meet in that ministerie and gouernment which doe liuely paint her foorth as it were in her coulers yet we must bee of good comfort and not faint For such greeuous times are foretolde that our faith may bee strengthned I beleeue the holy Catholike Church and that as Paule saith The foundation standeth sure and hath this seale The Lord knoweth who be his 2. Tim. 1. 19. Now for consent wherein hee woulde haue vs to imbrace the definitions and opinions either of all or the most part of Priestes and teachers in Antiquitie what doth hee els heerein but goe about still to drawe vs from God to men What would he els but wrap vs in those inextricable Labyrynthes of mens opinions and contrarieties that we shoulde neuer bee able to wind 〈◊〉 and in meane time depriue vs of that worde of life Heerein also they not onely renue that great reproch of stainyng the scriptures with insufficiencie but also in a manner they despite the authour of them as though hee had not sufficiently prouided for them or had depriued them of that whiche is necessarie to their saluation As if there were more sufficiencie in men then in God as if men shoulde supplie that whiche God either coulde not or woulde not This they doe when they binde vs to their definitions and opinions of their priestes and teachers and yet dare call the booke of God a matter of strife affirming it to bee no direction nor guide but this to bee left to them and that in such an vnderstanding and meaning as they giue of it By them wee must vnderstand the church of Rome in whose interpretation without any further adoe we must rest vpon paine of the blacke curse and for this cause they binde all their generation to acknowledge that I may vse their owne words The holy Catholike and Apostolicall Church of Rome to bee the true mother of all churches and congregations And againe that the holy scripture is to bee beleeued according to such vnderstanding interpretation meaning signification as our mother the holy Church hath alwayes allowed for good and at this present doth to whome of right doeth appertaine to giue the scripture a right vnderstanding sense and interpretation yea her creatures most solemnely promise that they will neuer vnderstande not interprete the same otherwise then according to the interpretation of the fathers They haue therefore their speciall daliances in the interpretation shifting it off some time with a litterall sense some times with a spirituall sometimes it is allegoricall and sometimes it is Tropologicall and Anagogicall But of all it is not that it shoulde bee but they turne it and winde it like a weathercock to serue all turnes and to mainteine all their errours and when no way will serue their turne then they leaue them and runne to men I speake not this as though I denyed all these wayes of interpretation but to shew their shiftes that hauing deuised so many will cleaue to none but still stay vpon men in whose writinges there can bee no certaintie both because they agree not amongest them selues as also because their bookes and workes especially of the most auncient that were either in or next to the primatiue Churche haue not come vncorrupted to our handes many haue beene foysted out vnder the names of the best and others are 〈◊〉 And those that wee are agreed vpon haue many errours Who will admit for naturall children the bastarde writinges of Clemens Romanus who woulde haue both goods and wiues common of Dionisius Areopagita who builded forsooth a Temple and yet is said to haue been so poore that he had not a place to lay his head in of Ignatius of master Hardings Abdias of Martialis and of an infinite number of such like as farre vnlike the naturall children of auncient naturall fathers as you Papists are those fathers whose children you boast to bee and the Popes that are now those first good Bishops and martyres that were in Rome and yet spite of their heartes whether they wil or no you will bee their sonnes and wheresoeuer the name of churche is founde in any Doctor or father it must by and by bee vnderstood forsooth of that Babylonicall strumpet of Rome Such also is your succession vpon whiche you stande so much vsed as you say by the fathers against heretikes for proofe of their religion And yet who knoweth not that the succession whereof you boast is only personall Whereof Saint Augustine in his tyme spake not in that Epistle by you alleadged but had speciall regarde vnto truth from which thitherunto they had not declined in the greatest and most substancial points of religion and so may bee saide of the rest As for that ordinary succession the scripture is manifest that it faileth in the church as by the example of Ismael who followed Abraham and Esau who followed Isaack the Iewes at this day followe their fathers in all whom is the image of the churche and yet God chaunged this ordinarie course chose extraordinarily Isaack Iacob vs that be Gētiles the other 〈◊〉 because that first righteousnesse cleaueth in him and so of 〈◊〉 bee getteth
reason of his high place gay apparrell great wordes assistance of friendes c. It is but a stale lying 〈◊〉 to fill vp the booke for 〈◊〉 man is sufficiently knowen to stand vpon none of these things If God strengthened his ministerie to daunt suche an aduersarie which is the thing that most stingeth you wee praise God for it Whether his dealing be false or true for which by your assignement hee may weare the garland hee will sufficiently declare in his answere Hee is olde enough to answere for himselfe and when these examples come wee shall consider of them I loue not to bring sod Colewortes twise that is a propertie belonging to the papists and fittest for them that will receiue no answere That question allo concerning concupiscence which is the greatest bulk of your booke shal at this time be omitted of mee as being often handeled in other places As for his other trickes which you say proceed not of negligence simplicitie or ignorance but must needes bee of set malice as for example the repeating of diuers vntruths out of Gotuisus concerning the lesuites you say in the first booke hee concealed the authours name whiche is most false For he nameth him often in that booke Now you say necessitie compelling him he confesseth Wherein you discredite your selfe and bring credite to him that hee doth not conceale them but yet you say finding in his owne conscience the things to bee false which he reporteth whereas his authour citeth alwayes two bookes Censura Coloniensis and Canisius great Catechisme he citeth but one and that not to bee had which is another lye and omitteth the other whiche sheweth the falshood both of M. Chark and of his authour Yea which is more when Gotuisus did not belie the Iesuites sufficiently M. Charke without blushing will falsifie his wordes to make them more odious Is not heere a merueilous long threed drawen out of a little flaxe and no bottome What a fine spinster is this that can make so much of a little of concealing the one and aduouching the other As though men were alwayes bounde to alleadge all and in the very wordes of their authours also might not choose amongest store which to alleadge or as though one authour were not to be cited vpon the credit of another but all the rest must bee discredited whye doeth not sir Robert confute Gotuisus and so make way to confute master Charke But as he vseth in other thinges so in this hee leapeth ouer hilles and dales and when hee shoulde ouercome the formost he striketh at the the hindmost and when hee cannot touche the hearte hee hitteth the heele But what are the matters forsooth that Gotuisus saith the Iesuites holde The Scripture is as it were a nose of waxe and master Charke saith theyr wordes are the Scriptures are a nose of waxe What els O infinite such things in the treatise whiche sheweth master Chark to bee a man of no sinceritie Is not heere wonderfull a doe about nothing But I pray you what difference is there doth not hee say that the scripture is a nose of waxe that saith it is as a nose of waxe that may bee turned and wrested which way a man will Is not their doctrine generall to derogate from the authoritie of the scripture that it is a dead letter a matter of strife dark maymed vncertaine a nose of waxe a leaden rule a lesbeian building an occasion of all heresies which comprehendeth not all thinges necessary to saluation Is not this doctrine as full in abhomination as that allegation And therefore Cardinall Hosius worse then any Anabaptist saith That it is a vaine labour that is bestowed vppon the Scripture whiche is bestowed as vppon a dead and beggerly element that rather wee must looke for voyces from heauen that must instructe vs. This is the foundation of all their vnwritten verities of man his traditious which they preferre before the worde of God because as Andradius saith It often times commeth to passe that hee is wrapped in a greater wickednesse that breaketh the Ecclesiasticall traditions then those that are Goddes adding that example of the Sacrament in one kinde c. And yet who knoweth not that the holy Scripture commendeth the Scripture vnto vs as a light shining in a darke place vntill the day breake foorth And Christe himselfe though they woulde haue vs to shunne them 〈◊〉 vs to search them as those that witnesse vnto his both his nature and his will Abraham also signifieth to the ritche man that was in hell that his brethren were to bee taught out of Moses and the 〈◊〉 to the ende they might bee deliuered and obtaine euerlasting saluation So Paule affirmeth to Timothie that all Scripture is inspired from aboue and comprehendeth all thinges necessarie to the perfection of saluation Nowe hee wrote this Epistle when in a manner all the Apostolicall writings were committed to writing as may appeare out of the fourth Chapter And concerning your traditions Christ saith They worship me in vaine with the precepts of men and Paul plainely condemneth that will worship in the second to the Collossians For his behauiour towards Campion in the Tower whome you so highly aduaunce for singuler learning those that were present can tell the vanitie of this accusation Hee gaue him no vncomely wordes but such as became both his owne person and his to whom he spake The one being a godly man standing for the truth and the other an enemie traitour both against god and it There was not any one word vttered of barbarous threat onely hee might when hee was insolent bee put in minde of his place and condition Of the like vanitie is it that you tell of his turning and speaking to the people that they shoulde prayse God for his good argument and of shutting the dores to keepe the people in to heare his prayer Hee might perhaps now and then as reason was admonish the people to beware of suche a runnagate Fryer who hauing challenged our whole churche shewed himselfe so insufficient to maintaine his owne cause As for hatred in his hart putting it in execution it is too malitious to be suspected of master Charke or any such of his profession You are the blood suckers the malicious men whose furie could neuer yet be otherwise quéched then with the effusion of christian blood If I lye thē let all the places and countries where euer you ruled witnes against mee If master Charke had had such malice as you say yet how could hee put it in execution being a priuate man To whome did he euer complaine What inditement did hee euer drawe or cause to bee drawne against him Where did he euer goe or intermeddle in any these matters but when and wherein hee was called But you may lye by authoritie For here are no lesse then fiue together one that he dealt inciuilie Another that hee commended his argument
them no impiety nor bynding the conscience as equall with the worde of God but are proued necessary to order and edification why these we receiue and allowe and follow thē as patterns to directe vs by But as God and men are to be discerned so are those traditions of God and the traditions of men farre vnlike and differing in authoritie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And therefore those wicked traditions whiche you haue forged and fayned as necessary to saluation which want both a commaundement and a promise of God we vtterly detest them to wit of your sundrie sortes of masses applied to al diseases and danngers your Vigilles yeeres mynds and moneths mynds your processions churches dedicated to Saintes your counterfaite fastes from Butter flesh cheese and egges your faigned Reliques of Saintes your holie bread and holy water your Rosaries blessings exorcismes of salt ashes hearbes trees palme leaues flowers oyles flesh grease wine and cheese for the health both of bodie and soule Should we not I praye you vpon the credite of your Synagogue receiue all these Is it not a good ease by cleauing to the Scriptures onely to vnburthen and acquite our selues of all these abhominations If you may obtayne euery deuise without Scripture then wee must yeelde a woorshippe to the Asse vppon palme sunday we must carrie about the Sacrament like Idolaters 〈◊〉 worship the bread we must haue a Letanie of Saintes wee muste haue your Popishe confirmation and many iestes in it we must haue creame and spettlein Baptisme sensing swinging to euery idol we must haue an infinite number of Monkes Nunnes and Friers and euery one tugging for his order like caterpillers of the earth eating vs vp deuouring vs and together by the eares amongst themselues for their sundrye ceremonies kindes of seruice and a thousand such like wickednesses As for Martine Luthers opinion denying seuen Sacramentes and acknowledging 3. and then properly confessing but one and the confession of Auspurge that followed him teaching 3. and Melancthon 4. and Caluine but two and I cannot tel what because these make nothing for the proofe of that you haue in hande they shal receiue their answere in another place Though men haue their sundry opinions yet the Scripture is one and certaine we stande not to iustifie any mans priuate and particuler opinion but would haue al mens opinions brought to the triall of the worde of God Wherein though men doe double many times in their knowledge in respect of their ignorance time and grouth whiche maketh against you yet the trueth is one and hath certainely discussed that there are but two Sacraments which we onely follow and allow of But for these places alleaged by you I adde further that you might haue considered that Luther wrote that booke De captiuitate not the laste For if you had looked either into his great Catechisme or the little one that was the abridgement of the other you shoulde haue founde but two As for Melancthon who holdeth as you say 4 It appeareth you tooke them not by an euen tale For in his last common places where hee aunsweareth those wicked articles Báuaricae Inquisitionis he holdeth that there are properly but two Sacramentes howsoeuer more generally the name Sacrament was common to moe c. Now whereas you bring in M Caluine for the title of King Henrie calling himselfe head of the Churche and the Magdeburgens for holding that opinion stil as M. 〈◊〉 and they vnderstood it it was and is according to the Scripture that none cā be head of the Churche but Iesus Christ who is the onely king thereof We disclaime not one Pope and allow another But as God hath erected Princes in their seueral dominions to gouerne the people committed to their charge so wee hold that they professing the Gospell haue a soueraigne power and are heads of their dominions next and immediatly vnder God and therfore also are chiefe members of the Church and haue to doe as appoynted by God to see his lawes receiued and obserued and iustice administred amongest al states and persons according to the worde of God your cancred malice therefore shal not prouoke that mischiefe you ayme at Princes that are taught of God are wise to consideral circumstaunces both what mooued M. Caluin so to write and in what sense that title for a time was retayned As for that you write of the opinion of burning Heretikes and of bookes being written too or fro it helpeth your cause little It is enough that we haue testified by our example that Heretikes are to be put to death and if some Anabaptist or Heretike that woulde liue as they list haue started out such books out of their owne dēnes what is that to vs seeing we haue both answeared them are ready to aunsweare whatsoeuer they or you can obiect against the truth thereof Neyther doeth this helpe your crueltie that put not Heretikes to death but Christians and such as professe the Gospel of Iesus Christ against your cursed Idolatries Concerning Luthers heate against those that he called Sacramentaries in regard of those other excellent giftes that God bestowed vppon him for the benefite of so many we doe easily pardon We thanke God that crawling out of 〈◊〉 Dunghil of Poperie he was no more infected then he 〈◊〉 We doubt not but if he had liued til these dayes of light and knowledge he would haue had better iudgement both in that and some other poyntes of doctrine which hee did some what too toughly mainteyne You haue little cause therefore to condemne our Christian modestie and holye perswasion of his and suche like brethrens saluation who though they iumpe not with vs in all thinges yet holding the foundation are not to be condemned as desperate Heretikes And as for Maister Whitgift and M. Cartwright howsoeuer they haue differed and striued about the gouernment of the Church you shal finde that they both agree against your false Religion and wicked Abhominations and as the Lorde shal make them wise by his woorde they shall set them selues against euerye thing that is not according to it But must all the differences and disagreementes of men that professe 〈◊〉 worde of God be attributed to the word of God Is not this a fine conclusion There are amongest men that professe one God and one woorde of GOD greate differences some are too farre and some are too shorte some are wyse to discerne and some see but a little some haue a sounder knowledge and some a weaker Ergo to appeale to the Scripture onely is an vncertaine thing All pretende the authority of the Scripture Ergo all haue it Ergo the Scripture is a nose of waxe to serue to all purposes because men abuse it Muche like as if you shoulde reason the Spyder draweth matter of Venome from the Rose therefore the Bee must sucke no honye from it But to stay vppon Scripture onely you say It
Sacramentes which can be no Sacraments if there be not the signe as well as the thing signified The one offered to the sense as consisting of an earthly part the other to faith as being the heauenlie and spiritual parte And where as you say that we haue found out a new exposition of these words this is my bodie affirming that we say it must needes be thus construed It is the onely signe of my bodie We say not so It is an impudent slaunder and you declare of what spirite you are when you shame not in the light of the sonne and before al the 〈◊〉 to aduouch such a manifest vntruth Amb. saith As thou 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 receiued the similitude of death so doest thou in the Sacrament drinke the similitude of his blood And againe in eating 〈◊〉 the bread Wine we doe signifie the eating 〈◊〉 of the flesh and blood he offered for vs. And in the very place by you alleadged 〈◊〉 thou wilt say saith he I see no appearance of blood no 〈◊〉 hath a 〈◊〉 For euē as thou hast taken a similitude of his death so thou 〈◊〉 the similitude of his most precious blood As for Cyrill none is playner then he Christ gaue saith he peeces of bread to his disciples saying Take yee eate yee this is my body Chrisostome saith 〈◊〉 ordained the Table of his last holy supper for this purpose that in the Sacrament he shoulde daily shew vs bread and wine for a 〈◊〉 of his bodie and blood But why doe I enter into this course with you The Doctors in infinite places doe testifie the truth of this doctrine that wee holde and mainteine in our Churche If you haue any thing it is either by clipping thē adding vnto them or diminishing from thē And though Luther in his time brought not onely 8. but 8. score interpretations and your not learned Claudius de Zanctes not 84. but 800. and 4. what maketh this to diminish the authoritie of the Scripture This is your reasō Luther in his time noted 8. sundrie interpretations vpon these wordes This is my body which yet is malitiously gathered of you and Claudius Zāctes 84. who is an impudēt Frier therfore a liar and althese alledge the Scriptures therefore there is no fit trial by the scriptures We leane not so to men that we in their names receiue whatsoeuer commeth from them that is common with papistes that if any thing be thrust vpon you in the name of any whō you like of by by you admit it how corrupt soeuer it be And though Luther had his faultes yet wee may truely say that he was a man enlightned by Gods spirit considering the time wherin he wrote being but newly crawled out of the dūghil of your corruptions in that notable fortitude and zeale wherin he set himselfe against Antichrist he may in some sort be wel compared to Elias And in regard that he taught the trueth in the most principall matters of faith and religion we pardon whatsoeuer he hath vttered against our persons as I haue said before which you set forth in the 13. 14. sections this shalbe al the answere I wil vouchsafe to bestowe vppon you at this time for this matter But your conclusion of the premisses is too grosse in the 15. section where you disfauour the controuersie betwixt vs concerning our prouoking to scripture for we prouoke to God you to men Wee leane not vpon any interpretation that is priuate but to that which is frō God we refuse not the testimony of men whē it is not against God Further we shift no scriptures For that concerning vowes it is playne that the prophet vnderstandeth that place of the worship of God For as they receiued benefites vnder the lawe so they vowed according to the holie purposes of their hearts such sacrifices as were enioyned by the law of God what makes this for the maintenaunce of rash vowes in a wil-worshippe deuised by sinful men who neither haue the gifte nor power to keepe that which they rashly promise vnto God And therefore it is iustly so wiped away by M. Fulk Again tha to ther place of Mat. 19. If thou wilt be perfect goe sel al that thou hast and giue it to the poore who seeth not that it was singuler for him that boasted of a perfection aboue other as also that other declareth If thou wilt enter into life keepe the cōmandements though this belōg vnto all yet our iustification is not frō the law but frō faith which that this yong mā might haue bin made to see he was beatē frō his hold y t knowing his own imperfection he might disclaime it and rest in that perfectiō of Christ which also vnles you Papistes do whatsoeuer you boast of a more perfectiō of life in Christianity thē others therfore do as you think more then you ought therfore at least must keep the cōmandements you cānot be saued It is pitiful to see your blindnes how greedily you snatch at that which yet you cānot swallow leaue that which is prouided for your euerlasting comforte Whatsoeuer pertaineth to life or doctrine is cōmon to all to serue both for exāple instructiō but yet many things are spokē to finguler persons in singuler respects as the fasting of Christ 40. daies his going vppon the water his healing of the sicke his raising the dead c. which yet I thinke you wil not so apply as though al your Iesuites shold do al such things as Christ did But I know where to haue you For in times paste you had some shame but now you haue gotten harlots forheads That also of S. Iames cap. 2. Cōcerning iustification not by a dead faith hath bin made plaine lōg agoe not only that but also that whiche you bring out of the 2 to the Rom. againe out of 1. Cor. 7. Mat. 19. where as you had touched them often But you make no conscience to blot paper againe againe with one the same thing You are like vnto flies who though they iolte thēselues neuer so oftē against the glasse yet they seeke stil a way to get out We hold according to the doctrine of Iames that he that shalbe iustified both before God mē must haue a true a liuely faith which we discerne by good workes as by fruits frō that dead faith which hath no fruits of sanctificatiō yet we affirme still with M. Fulk that those works that do proceed frō the fullest truest faith that is cānot iustifie vs in thēselues before God therfore whē Abraham is said to be iustified by works whē he offred vp his sōne Isaack y e meaning is plain that he was foūd a iustified mā by that worke that was before mē not before God otherwise thē as faith being liuely layeth hold vpō that righteousnes of Christ
which as the apostle saith is neither in vs nor of vs. Him that knew no sin he made sin for vs that we might be made the righteousnes of God in him not in our selues Such a faith as is true thus layde hold of the righteousnes of Christ is said to saue vs because it apprehendeth Christ and all his riches but such a faith as Iames speaketh of a deade faith because it layeth no hold of Christe cannot saue vs. So Saint Iames speaketh by a certaine Catachresis or abusion setting downe woorkes for an effectuall fayth by woorkes and faith for a vayne faith not that the beginning of Iustification should be of faith and the perfecting of it of our owne workes and merites For this were to make God to beginne and man to ende when it is plaine that both to wil and to performe are onely of God but because he is in this worke of our iustification both the beginner and ender to whom is due the whole glorie As for your doctrine it is ful of blasphemie robbing GOD of his glorie when you attribute the beginning to God and the finishing to your selues The other place The doers of the lawe shalbee iustified shalbe afforded you when you fulfil the law you shalbe iustified by it and then you neede not Christ. Your places of Virginitie and marriage are answeared before Neither Virginitie nor marriage in themselues can merite any thing before God before men they may be preferred one before another as in some times and cases it maye be better for a man if he haue the gift to be vnmarried In other some to be married For Fathers also it hath beene saide before We reuerence them and thanke God for these giftes of God in them that may bring vs any profite or knowledge for the vnderstanding of the worde but we bring not the spirite of God to be tried by the spirites of men but all mens spirites to be examined and tried by the spirite of God Where therefore they faile it is no reason that we should fayle with them The woorde of God must preuayle that hath confirmed that amongest his Apostles there shoulde be no superioritie That Peter had no more prerogatiue then the rest that that which was saide to one was sayde to al. And though you would burst for anger yet M. Fulke shall not be bound to euery thing aduouched by the Fathers whereof you can bring no sounde proofe or grounde out of the Scriptures Indeede as they were men so many times they trifle and erre like men and this is to teach vs to rest not in men nor in their opinions farther then they rest in GOD and vppon his worde The same also may be sayd of our owne Writers and therefore you doe vs the more wrong when you call vs Lutherans Caluinistes Puritans and I cannot tell what For as much as we mainteine them no farther nor relie vpon them then they mainteine the truth and stay vpon it We confesse they were singuler and rare instrumentes of God to whom the Lorde vouchsafed rare and excellent giftes for the discouerie of your whoredomes and for the buylding vp of his Church but yet they were men and wherein soeuer they haue erred as men we perswade our selues we are not bounde to erre with them That is a thing sit test for Papistes whose Babylonical buylding is vpon the onelie foundation of men and not vpon Christ and his Apostles And yet you may take your selues by the noses in this accusation for where your owne men haue drawn neere the truth there you disclaime them Hic non tenetur magister c. The maister here was asleepe c. And why should you denie vs that priuiledge which you chalenge your selues Will you receiue al things whatsoeuer at al times that the doctors old or new your Popes and his followers in times past or now haue set downe and aduouched And because they haue set it downe must it bee true Indeede if you take this way you may beginne and continue what heresie you liste you maye mainteine it and defende it too how absurd and villanous soeuer it be But truth shal scatter errors as the chaffe and it shal stande and abide for euer As for disputation for which you cal so fast and so often whensoeuer you come to it you shal gaine as little by it as your predecessours haue done that came onely appoynted as you doe I pray you what gate you when you disputed with Luther at Wormes at Ratesbone and in other places when Melancthon and Bucer also were assistauntes What gained you at Poysie in France when Beza and Peter Martyr were there face to face against you What at Oxeforde when your greatest Doctours in the matter of the Sacrament saide what they coulde for their liues in mainteining your owne corruptions and Bucer at Cambridge also disputed That I omit the disputation in the Conuocation house in the time of Queene Marie when the swoorde was at your owne commaundement when before the Lawe you ranne so swiftelie that firste shutting out suche as you thought woulde matche you you declared by that honest man Weston your Prolocutor that howsoeuer any might dispute yet that the matter was alreadie concluded and determined with shame enough when also afterwardes Latimer Ridley and Cranmer those Reuerende Godlie learned Fathers when their liues lay vpon it disputed with you and not onelie they but euen handie crafts men men women children in the Apologies they made at your cursed barres did so stoppe your mouths that you had nothing to say but to pronounce a cruell and vniust sentence of death against them Agayne in the beginning of the happie raigne of our Soueraigne when your chiefest and best mē were called when the time serued best and was if euer there were anie most fitte your selues beeing not displaced when you had free libertie I pray you howe did you acquite your selues Surely like tawle fellowes you went awaie without giuing anie one blowe and yet now the battel is ended and trueth hath triumphed out of your holes you keepe a craking and daring of all men and yet euermore when you come to shew your forces they are founde so feeble that you goe away ashamed and confounded as of late your old Doctors of 〈◊〉 that durst not abide one poore mā And your chiefest Champion that had challenged al and yet being sounded was found not so emptie of truth as of al good learning either in knowledge of tongues or anie parte of your owne popish Diuinitie For what could he say more then other his maisters had saide before him What did hee bring that hee had not taken from Melchior Canus Canisius which in disputation was the only booke that he desired or out of Belar minus dictates which is as it were the onelie Treasurie of al the Papistes and your owne good maister which hath ministred the matter not onelie of
from Pelagius and ioyne with Christians who holde that a man is not iustified by workes of the lawe neither before or after grace but by the fayth of Iesus Christ. We saith he hauo beleeued in Iesus that wee might bee iustified by the Faith of Christ and not of the workes of the lawe by whiche no flesh shalbe iustified And because you take it in suche skorne to bee charged with Pelagius heresie I pray you yet consider further your 〈◊〉 doctrine which is that mans free will moued of God doeth by consent worke together with the grace of God so as both doe concurre in the conuersion of a man or in bringing foorth spirituall actions to witte the grace of God the natural strength of mans free wil your own Andradius a chief piller of yours saith that the libertie of our free wil is the efficient cause of the applying of our 〈◊〉 to grace but so as it is confirmed by diuine helpes and I beseeche you howe farre differeth this from playne Pelagianisme And yet the Scriptures are playne No man commeth vnto mee vnlesse my Father drawe him And Saynte Paule sayeth GOD woorketh both to will and to performe in all spirituall actions for the naturall man is enimie to God neyther are wee fitte as of our selues to thinke anie good thought muche lesse to doe it Therefore this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in spirituall thinges is to be regarded wher with the powers of men are so diseased that knowledge wanting they can muche lesse haue anye libertie of election And therefore horrible is that doctrine of yours also concerning the fulfilling of the lawe that it may not onelie bee satisfied of vs in entionaliter constantionaliter and integraliter For these are their owne wordes but also that the fulfilling of it is in a mans own power to do these things not only which the law cōmandeth but ouer aboue the law these are their workes of Supererogation and these by dispensations and Bulles may be applied vnto others and vnto their vse serue as their own to their iustification Surely I fayne nothing their owne bookes haue reserued this dung which now I fling in their owne faces And yet who knoweth not that the 〈◊〉 of God is spititual and that it requireth a perfecte obedience 〈◊〉 the whole hearte soule and minde As Christe himselfe hath expounded in the 5. of Mat. concerning the exposition of the 5. commandement c. Seeing no man hath euer bin able to fulfil the law it must needs follow that no man can be iustified by it He hath shut all vnder 〈◊〉 that he might haue mercie on all and he hath sent his onelye begotten Sonne that hee fulfilling the Lawe it might bee to the iustification of euerie one that belecueth Now if we must needs confesse that we are not cleare neither from the sinnes of the first table nor of the seconde and the lawe of God requireth not onelie an outwarde obedience but also an inwarde and that perfect from the hearte and not for a while but thorow out a mans whole life it must needes proceede from a proude spirite not onelie to boast of the fulfilling of the lawe but to doe more then the lawe requireth suche as are your vowed chastitie and pouertie whereby you mocke both GOD and men But howesoeuer you 〈◊〉 the matter withmen GOD will not bee 〈◊〉 A tyme will come when you shall aunsweare it to him In meane time you shal answere it also to his Churche sor hudling and confounding the Lawe and the Gospell so together For you Iesuites saye that this is the doctrine of the Gospell that if wee will enter into lyfe wee must keepe the 〈◊〉 and yet Saynt Paule sheweth a plaine difference For Moses describing the righteousnes which is of the 〈◊〉 saith Is a man shal doc these thinges hee shall liue in them but the righteousnesse whiche is of Faith is If thou shalte confesse the Lorde Iesus and beleeue in thine hearte that God hath raised him vp from the dead thou shalt be saued Now concerning the other iniurie you say we offer you in ioyning you with those heretikes who were named Colliridians that woorshipped the Virgin Marie you say they sacrificed to her and so doe not you and therfore you haue wrong but you must remember that herein they were saide to worship her because it was the maner of their worshipping to sacrifice But if there be a sacrifice of praise and of prayer due onlie to God and yet you yeeld this without al reason and ground of the worde vnto that blessed Virgin What doe you els but as these heretikes did sacrifice vnto her This is but a meere cauil whereby you woulde auoyde the point charging vs with an iniurie that doe you but right not 〈◊〉 in this but in al the rest wherwith you are iustly charged because as they were charged for these thinges done against the truth of God so are you The Anthropomorphites ascribed to God the members and lineamentes of a man so doe you in making an image of GOD the father of Iesus Christ of the holy Ghost The Valentinians had their crosse and woorshipped it so doe you The Eutichians denied the truth of Christs bodie so doe you The Apostolikes against the warrant of Gods word vowed and yet kept not continencie and pouertie so doe your Iesuites and all the rest of your Popes holie orders The Marcionists also were exceeding in praysing virginitie in superstitious fasting suffering women to baptise and so are you what heresie euer was there or is there with whiche you doe not communicate with one point or another with those I saie that are set downe and condemned for heresies You are Carpocratians for Images Hemerobaptistes for holy water Ossenes and Mercosians for deuised Reliques and praiers in a strange language Heracleans in annointing them that were at the point of death Eucralites in abstaining from flesh and what not And what sacrifice could you yeeld greater vnto the Virgin Marie then that you haue giuen her when in a manner you haue preferred and laboured to preferre a seruice vnto her before theseruice of God as may apyeare in your offices both old and new authorized euen by your chiefest fathers and holiest Popes wherein you abuse moste shamefully the Scriptures of God applying sundrie Psalms to the Virgin Marie that were neuer meant of her as namely the 8. Psalme the 18. the 23. the 44. the 45. and al the rest as fitlye to the purpose as all the rest of your interpretations are I speake not of your blasphemous Hymnes O gloriosa 〈◊〉 excelsa super sidera c. Aue regina coelorum 〈◊〉 Dominae Angelorum salue radix sancta c. But this is most blasphemous and intollerable amongest the rest Salue Regina mater misericordiae vita dulcedo spes nostra salue Adte clamamus Exules Euae Adte
a Church yard Do you not thinke that this passeth sacrificing to the Virgin Mary And doe we not greate wrong vnto them When wee charge them with heresies Who care not what they holde nor what they set downe but agree as I haue saide with all and those the most grosse heretikes that cuerliued not in anie good thinges that they helde for these are none of theirs but euen in their greatest corruptions and villanies against God and his worde as may appeare by their doctrine and liues deliuered in all times and ages And this is verified of them concerning prayer for the dead as master Fulke hath iustly charged them ioyning with the Montanistes among whose heresies that is written though Augustine Ambrose Chrysostome did also in some sort hold it For they held it not as these do besides the foundation of faith though it bee an errour in faith nor in suche grosse manner though the corruption of that time had preuailed with them to make them erre Wee doe not therefore abuse the people but doe holde that whatsoeuer is condemned for heresie in the worde of God and so was accounted and conuinced as stood in and mainteined in the primatiue Church that we account condemne styll for heresie But where hee saith that wee holde heresies and culleth out those which are in deede no heresies but manifest truethes according to the worde of God as that of Aerius against prayer for the dead and that of Vigilantius for praying vnto Saintes it needeth no other answere then that which is set downe alreadie by writers from amongest vs of all sortes And it is a good answere that euery thing is not an errour which good men haue reckoned for errours for so without all cause the truth should be condemned and that which is false shoulde be vpholden and maintained The conditions therefore you speake of are not maintained seeing of the greatest heresies you cannot for all your malice accuse vs of any one And as for these errours which you woulde haue made so great heresies they are none but are according to the truth of God as those fathers held them were not so blasphemous as they are in you that hold litle or nothing of the foundation of faith As for the maner of heretikes wherewith you fit vs and still with your former two conditions whether our or your manners best 〈◊〉 them and agree with them shall in a fitter place appeare As for Augustines note of that propertie of the Donatistes that hated as you say the sea of Rome and called it Cathedram pestilentiae the chayre of Pestilence if wee shoulde graunte that Rome nowe were the same Rome that it was then how can it fit vs that neuer called any member of the Churche the chayre of Pestilence The Donatists in deede 〈◊〉 shut vp the Catholike Churche into a corner of the worlde and thought other Churches and Rome amongest the rest to bee no Church against whome Saint Augustine disputeth in the fiftie Chapter But of that you mention and specially of Rome which you name there is no worde not sillable in the fiftie and one Chapter But this is alwayes your propertie like obstinate heretikes as you are to abuse your Readers with quoting places out of the Doctors for a shewe onely of that which is not there as though all went of your side when neither worde nor matter tending that way can bee founde in the places by you alleadged But euen as heretikes are wont you ly by tradition and make no conscience to be daube your margent with shewe of Authorities when you haue not so much as a syllable to maintaine your errours Bring mee therefore that place directly out of Augustine When you answere againe that heretikes call the Church of Rome Cathedram Pestilentiae when in deede it was a member of the true Church if they did so they beare a iust condemnation But as it is now it is in deede the seate of Antichriste despising and persecuting the Catholike Churche of Christe and forsaking the scriptures by which it refuseth to be prooued mainteining false doctrine liuing therewithall abhominably And therefore must needes bee the chaire of Pestilence It must needes heerein agree with the Donatists that dreamed of a decay of the Church of an Apostacie and falling awaye so as though all were headged in at Rome and you onely as the two Tribes as Angustine speaketh had remayned in the temple that is in the Church No we aske you with Augustin Seeing wee doe not beleeue you howe will yee conuince vs Will you not 〈◊〉 vs by the holy scriptures where with so great manifestation they are reade to the ende that whosoeuer hee bee that once beleeueth those letters hee cannot but confesse these thinges to bee most true Againe if I must therefore bee compelled to beleeue these examples to bee true because they are there written when I cannot say they are false which are written Why doe not they also themselues beleeue the same Scriptures concerning the Church spread throughout the world Loe wee beleeue all those things let them also beleeue that which the Lorde saith that repentance and remission of sinnes is preached in his name throughout all nations beginning at Herusalem But what maketh all this for Rome or against vs vnlesse wee shoulde giue that they beg which is too too absurd that a particuler Church is the Catholike churche that Rome is the vniuersall churche which though we should giue them yet they are neuer the neare seeing God neuer forsaketh his and they are his whome hee hath foreknowen whom hee hath chosen whom he doth neuer reiect but keepeth them amidst all tryals and tentations bringing them to rest in the end Another propertie whiche must needes bee ours is for hating and cōdemning the life of Monkes and also for drawing Nunnes out of their cloisters and ioyning our selues with the same in pretended wedlocke First for that place out of the second booke against the Epistle of Parmenian there is not one worde tending that way and as for that Epistle to Eusebius In deede Augustine there complaineth of the breach of their discipline that two were allured by the Cyrcumcelians not because they woulde marry but because they woulde shake of the yoke of the Lordes discipline they went gadding vp and downe like vagabonds and gaue themselues to drunkennesse and so hee complaineth of a Subdeacon but what maketh this against vs We drawe them not like Circumcelians from the religion and discipline of Christe but beeing Christians and hauing not the gift of continencie wee giue them counsaile to marrie The Monkes and Nunnes which Augustine spake of are as like theirs as they are vnlike to Christians whose names they boast wee drawe them not out in any disordered sort to bring them to ryot and to allure them from God to make them harlots as themselues commonly did but wee shewe them of that libertie God hath left 〈◊〉
learne or to teach Dispute you as men to bee tryed or rather as these that are 〈◊〉 and woulde subuert both Church and common wealth You may prate what you list and write as long as you will but wise men see well enough where at you shoote as hath been saide before And whereas you attribute their obstinacie which you call constancie to the mercie and grace of God you abuse both the name and grace of God contrarie to the commaundement of God Thou shalt not take the name of the Lorde thy God in vaine Besides you charge God with their treason and superstition the cause neither being his not depending vpon any worde of his And therefore it was not for him but against him and in his iuste indgemente hee found them out as I doubt not but in time it shall likewise fall out with all those that are so redie of whom you speake that carry so treasonable and traiterous mindes whereto if according to your confession they be still so bent and shall pursue that which others left I beseech the Lorde to appoint the time quickly that you may receiue a iust recompence and peace may bee vpon all Gods Israel amongest vs. The rest you say in master Charkes Preface is not worth answer neither surely is that which is answered alreadie which yet you haue accounted moste worthie of answere For your bare affirmation and wordes is no more proufe and reason then a 〈◊〉 is a milstone no more is your disabling of our cause in comparison of yours Not ours but Christes as yours is not yours but Antichristes And wee easily yeelde you that in respect of the worlde surely our cause is somewhat more beggerly then yours For Satan by Antichriste the Pope doth enable furnish and decke it with all possible pompe efficacie deceite lying signes and wonders that can bee Rome is a rose coloured whoore and your Rochettes and Crochets your Hattes and crownes are not decked with studdes of Iron but all to beedawbed with iewels and precious stones Her cup in her hand is of fine golde Shee is a whore not for euery man but kinges and princes commit fornication with her And for vniuersalitie it is cleare that all the inhabitants of the earth shal worship the beast whose names are not written in the booke of life they are not written in the booke of the lambe that is slaine Hee shall rule and giue them a marke in their handes and no man shall by nor sell without the marke of the beaste In deede in this respect Christe is a beggar true religion is beggerie and your cause is honourable and you are the Lordes of the worlde But heere I must warne you that whilest you talke of your wealth and your honour yet you forgate not to begge very beggerly the matter in question If you had wonne the cause then you might charge vs with pride and take the name of humilitie But if you bee so good a Phisition to knowe the disease of an heretike I wonder you coulde not finde your owne sicknesse to the death heretikes in deede and therefore pride such a disease in you as meane Phisitions may see and handle knowen to all that knowe but little seene to them that are halfe blind and apparant to the whole worlde without measure But Christ howe base and beggerly soeuer you make him yet is hee the high riches and very treasurie of God And as Augustine with the testimonie and consent of those sounde witnesses standing in mainteinance of the truth had an honourable cause and the other though Iulianistes Arrians Donatists and all the rabble of earth and hell set against him in the strength of flesh blood had a weake and beggerly cause euen so haue you that haue neither sentence of Scripture nor sounde Doctor for the space of the first 600. yeeres to take your parte your pith is so poore of these almost 1200 yeeres that we can neither see nor feele it and therefore it is a vaine popish bragge As for Luther whō you raue so much against it is a lie that our religion began with him For our religiō is the wisedome of God before al beginning Al the Saints of God that euer were in al the times ages of the worlde haue euer both opened their mouths spoken against Antichrist you his members All the Patriarches Prophets Christ himselfe and his Apostles Yea when Antichrist grew and occupied that holie place boasting himselfe as God in the greatest times of darknes yet God euermore stirred vp lōg before Luther was borne sundry excellent spirites to controll his abhominatōs and to stand for his blessed truth which as it hath gained against him made the towers of his pride to bowe towards destruction so beeing the breath of Christe it shall not cease til it haue vtterly ouerthrowne him But it is to be marked how your popish heate carried you here into a disdayneful reproch against one of your own names when you cal him a Rūnegate Frier If his order were holy then you doe amisse because of his heresie to disdayne his profession But a man may see what reuerence and conscience you beare to your owne titles And yet me thinks this should not so much gaule you in respect of vs cause you so to raue against vs seing he is one of your owne and hauing so farre proceeded amongst you brought out such is the streight of truth so harde batterie against you But blessed be God that euen out of your own bowels hath bred so sundry notable instruments to bewray your falshood to vindicate the truth As for his impugning of vs take you no care for that It wilbe best for you to keepe your own heads as hath bin said We easily pardon that which may be pardoned euery man seeth not al things and some differences may wel stand with the vnity of faith You papistes bee not al of a coate nor all of a religion your deuision is indeede in the bowels in matters of substance and weight and therefore I trust it is a true Prognostication of your vtter destruction when God shal appeare in glory You are deuided into infinite orders professions at warre contrary one to another Nay your opinions are so contradictorie as by no meanes they canne bee reconciled and so are your popes your Popes Canons At the death of your popes you are wont to publish that they are departed out of this life to euerlasting happines and rest and yet you commaunde herses to bee set vp and prayers to bee saide for them that they may be receiued to happines and rest Yee glorie of your consent and agreement in expounding the scriptures and yet your doctours teach that the scriptures are fitted and diuerslye vnderstoode for the time so as they maye bee expounded at one time according to the curraunte vniuersall ryte of the Churche but that ryte beeyng chaunged that also
These are known almost to al writers and as these heads are out of order and vnitie so are their Canons and their decrees sometime as hereticall as they cal it as any of our propositions and sometimes as ouerthwart direct against the Gospel For that which they graunt in one Canon they foribid in another that which they build vp to day they throwe downe to morrow As for example in some Canons their popish Bishoplike authoritie is mittigated and all the rest are made equall vnto them But in others it is so extolled that all men what state or calling soeuer they bee of what giftes soeuer God hath blessed them withall yet they must be subiect vnto thē and contrary to that order which God hath appoynted they muste ryde men and vse them at their pleasures Somtime they say it is lawful for a Christian that is vnmarried to haue a Concubine and in others they cōdemne against Gods truth But your owne bookes as full as they are of leaues or rather lines so full they are of outragious and malicious lyes slaunders reproches reuilinges and raylings And let all the Papistes bring forth their whole packe of pelting and lewd writings inuectiues let them lay them to this learned godly and milde reply of M. Charkes who as 〈◊〉 of purpose laboured but too much considering with whom he had to deale to cut off that sharpnesse which had ben meet he had more vsed against such enemies of God as you are thē they shall see the differēce and therfore this lie in the entrāce cōcernig his entrāce sheweth y t before you begin you are a mā 〈◊〉 spēt of al truth mo 〈◊〉 such is that you say he begā so hotly with Cāpion But that his quiet behauiour cooled him with shame alacke there while They that knewe Campion as well as euer Parsons did knewe his milde spirite well enough And it is euident that both in the first second and third dayes disputation generally in all howesoeuer there were som difference he behaued him selfe more like a man of defiance that had beene at libertie in grace fauor both of God Prince then like a prisoner in the tower of London that in the testimonie of his owne conscience had to answer at another barre and felt the gilte of his own treasons which if any thing might haue cooled him no doubt that might haue done it And whatsoeuer you speak of humilitie it was not humilitie nor the assistance and confidence of a good cause sealed with that comfortable spirite of gladnesse aboue the rest that made him either gentle or soft but his owne naughtie cause and conscience that made him to counterfaite sometimes as I haue alreadie alleadged As for that note of the conference with those of Wisbitch which by your magisteriall authoritie you call a vaine pamphlet charging that reuerende man who hath taken such notable paines in the Church of god against your heresies It was not set foorth for any such cause as your malice pretendeth nor by him it was writen to a priuate friende as a report of it procured to be published before master Fulke knew of it was also sufficient to witnes how distrustfull they were of their cause or at least that they are not at concorde with you in the opinion concerning disputing with vs whom they deeme as you doe heretikes I haue saide of this before and therefore nowe speake the lesse of it againe But in your wise Censure those reuerend and learned fathers as you call them did very wisely in contemning his pride comraing thither vpon vanitie without warrant and yet it is euident by good testimony that hee went by commission from the Bishop of Eley and had better warrand for that his so dealing then you who for ought that wee know haue no warrand thus to prouoke vs. And if you say that Campion had a commaundement from his superiours we answere that the acknowledging of those forraigne superiours and powers contrary to the prerogatiue of our prince and lawes of our countrie brought him to the gallowes and so it will you if you come not with better priuiledge But you say the falshood of that scroule hath beene discouered to you since by letters from the parties themselues and that there is nothing in it that maketh not to our discredite that it is confessed therein that after wee had depriued them of all bookes yea of their very note bookes whiche to learned men are the store house of memorie then we asked whe ther they woulde come to Cambridge to dispute if leaue might be procured And because they contemned so pearte and cockish a 〈◊〉 c. Therefore wee say they refused disputation c. For the firste I woulde haue it marked that where you are wont so to complaine of streight and hard dealing by your owne confession heere there is entercourse of writing betwixt which because your lauish penne hath not spared to vtter it may bee a meane in good pollicie to cause them to bee streightlier looked vnto heereafter and your selfe to be sought out seeing their letters can finde you out But if it bee false why is it not confuted and the truth from themselues declared Perhaps you will say they haue written in deede so I haue heard they haue but as much to the purpose and according to the 〈◊〉 in deede as it was as men that had neuer heard of it And though their followers that hang vpon mens persons without looking to the veritie may be carried with suche poore deuises yet you must consider that wee are not to beleeue them in 〈◊〉 owne cause As for taking away their bookes wherof they and you so often complaine it is answered that they were suche as had beene lately written by those of your heresie The bookes of the holy scriptures and auncient Doctours were neuer denied you and though they made a shewe of readinesse to disputation yet they added such conditions as were not in any subiect to perfourme For they woulde bee all set at libertie they woulde haue all their scattered armie gathered together and then they woulde pitche the fielde the rather that they might get that by strength perforce and with multitude that they coulde neuer winne by truthe knowledge and learning And yet these men of whose readinesse and suite nowe to dispute you make so much vaunte at the first they would none of it and your greatest forefathers as I haue saide haue vtterly shewed themselues against it Master Fulke therefore neither went of his owne head nor for any such matter as you dreame of This you and those of your sort haue alwayes hunted after as men pusfed vp that make more reckoning like hypocrites of a little prayse and vaine glorie before men then of being approued vnto God And therefore you carry all men their persons and learning with the tempest of a
proud spirite condemning vs of choler impatience and heate if wee speake but plainely and yet swallowing vp in your selues the greatest sharpnesse and filth of speeche that may bee and namely againste suche whose shoe latchettes you are vnworthie to loose For what speeche is this to bee vsed to a reuerende learned man in deed to call him a pearte and cockishe merchaunt who in comparison of gifts trauaile and labour in the ministerie of the Gospel hath done more then any one or all the pack of them euer did for the maintenance of their own abhominable popery Againe hee playeth vpon another worde vsed by master Charke when hee saith and that truly that they haue nothing to vpholde theyr popishe religion and to defende it but lying tyrannie hypocrisie and rebellion Heere hee leaueth the very cause and looketh backe to his owne ayme and asketh where those 〈◊〉 and hypocrisie are As for tyrannie that hee returneth vpon vs because that iustice is executed vpon suche rebels and traytours as Campion and his companions were His parte had beene to haue cleared Poperie from this iust charge and to haue cast it vpon the Gospell As for that iustice whiche vndutifully and like himselfe hee calleth tyrannie because traytours are racked and quartered hee myght haue remembred that as well theyr executions against the like transgressours myght haue been called tyrannie But what their tyrannicall dealing hath beene in deede 〈◊〉 for and in regarde of religion while in so fewe monethes they not onely burned quicke but hanged drowned and killed more then haue beene executed amongest vs these many yeeres Let 〈◊〉 tyrannie witnesse in the Inquisition of Spayne in the murthers of Fraunce the blooddie slaughters procured by their meanes in Flaunders and all the dominions and kingdomes els where in the worlde where Antichriste their Pope hath had any dominion As for his gentle admonitiō to vs whō in contempt he calleth Ministers wherein hee doth so friendly aduise vs for our good to confesse our fcare in plaine wordes wee will consider of that at further leasure In the meane time if hee finde vs 〈◊〉 away and leaue our places emptie let him hardly possesse them keepe thē if hee can and if he and all the rest of thē as many as shal write dispute or contend for their Maozim and false religion shall finde vs too fewe to match them or too weake to answere them yet let them not fat their heartes in their sinne crie out a victorie against God and against his truth who is Almightie and which standeth fast and shall in the ende preuaile against all their cursed treacherie Another thing he 〈◊〉 at is master Charkes modest honest defence of master Hanmer hee hauing charged them that nothing could bee had either from the one or the other but words and why forsooth Because the disputation cannot bee procured and perfourmed by them being priuate men vpon whose warrant yet if they would like to come it is like they woulde bee readie to encounter them and perfourme the disputation in deede But because master Charke will defende master Hanmer whō by a Rethoricall diminution hee laboureth to abase with some praise of the one and disgrace of the other hee hath raked together and laide out of an heape as hee saith of his fooleries and falsehoode patched for sooth after the fashion of our 〈◊〉 some fewe thinges But surely if a man woulde but take a little paines to rake in their dounge I meane not onely in the foolish writings of many their worshipfull writers that haue written in controuersies against the religion of Christe but much more in their patched confuse sermons he shoulde finde nothing els but ridiculous absurdities blasphemous opinions and fooleries such as woulde make a mans eares to glowe and to tingle either in heating or reading them I referre the Reader for controuersies but to Eckius Blyndasinus Aloysius Lypomanus Topiarius Grenewith Frier Perine Tefflerus Marshall and all the rest of that sort not reckoned amongst the best learned and as for their sermons they are well worse Hee may bee ashamed to 〈◊〉 that wee patch our Sermons For his patches vse nothing but patcherie whilest their preachings are nothing but pratings toyes fancies of their owne denising as farre from the taste of Gods spirite and the knowledge of the woorde of God as them selues are from all spirituall feeling and taste of godlinesse demne it vnlesse it be done warilie Sometime they say if the Pope bee founde negligent of his own saluation and of his brethrens if he be foūd vnprofitable and remisse in his businesse and altogether without anie goodnes so that he hurt himselfe and others lead thē by whole heapes into hel to the diuel yet it is not lawful for any mortal man to reprooue him or to say sir why doe you so the reason is because he is to iudge all men and to be iudged of no man c. And yet their Rubricke gainsayeth that same blasphemous Canon as also the Canon admonendi Causa 2. quest 7. It were infinite and tedious to followal but as they are one against another so they are against themselues and against their other general doctrine in many things confirming that which they so persecute with fire faggotin vs as for example Clement the Pope saith that the holy scripture is to be interpreted by it self The canōs of the Apostles are reiected out of Isiodore because they were made by heretikes It is saide nothing is to be forbidden that the scriptures forbid not They teach that finnes are forgiuen through faith only the promise of pardon may be obtayned Againe they affirme that we being the sonnes of wrath cānot be saued but through faith in Christ the mediator And they allowe the Sacrament to be ministred to the lay people in both kinds and the glosse is not against it Against their counterfeit supremacie also Cyprian the pope saith that the other apostles were of the same authority that Peter was The supremacie of the pope is reiected in the Church neither hath the Pope al things in the closet of his breast They 〈◊〉 also the right of choosing the pope and appoynting the apostolical See vnto the Emperor 〈◊〉 they take away the pluralitie of benefices and ordeine that one priest shal not haue many churches committed to his charge They teach as we doe that al the dutie of priests as they cal them consisteth in preaching and that this duetie also belongeth to Bishops They forbid their Clarkes to be present at marriage feastes or to haunte ale houses or ta uernes they must haue no cōuersation with women the masse of a priest which keepeth a whore may not be heard Their 〈◊〉 that haue not the gift of chastitie may marrie Their mōkes according to their names
what would the ending bee Belyke you 〈◊〉 haue men to speake to you as Angels when you are diuels In our answeares you are watching to catche euery sharpe woorde that yet is ouermilde considering who you are that sette your selues linesse true religion Let paretts sermons de tempore al the rest of their legendes and festiuals their scholasticall and Lombardicall histories which are more then a good manie testifie which are so full of lyes toyes and inuentions that a man can finde no truth in them And albeit these late pedling Iesuites seeme to come with a greater florishe in this last encounter against the truth yet they are voide of all truth and sinceritie Among these may bee reckoned also Syr Sonius Hermannus 〈◊〉 Quintius Poligranus and a thousand suche like pedling proctors And no maruell for they were neuer acquainted with the holy scriptures to preache for the glory of Christe and to edifie his people Alas they neuer came where it grew neither know they what it meanes but they patch in deede together other mens sayinges kicking and flinging here and there without all good method and order neuer looking to the sense of the scriptures neuer caring what the scriptures of God teach but they can tell vs some Canturburies tales and lyes of Robin hoode and many goodly myracles wrought by reliques of our Ladies milke of Saint Hubertes key of Saint Loyes horse of Saint Gabriels fethers of Saint Georges speare Reade their Gesta Romanorum Vitas patrū their Speculum bistoriale and you shall finde such stuffe enough That I say nothing of Saint Frances conformities of S. Bridgets reuelations of these goodly things set out by Lypomanus Sophronius and such coū terfet Doctors who are as full of such holy fraudes to helpe the peoples deuotion as their golden Legende is full of Leaden nay lowde lyes But heere Master Charke hath drawen vppon himselfe a needelesse charge to answere for Master Hanmer who is olde enough to answere for himselfe and if hee finde it harde hee must thanke himselfe for medling with matters whiche hee might haue auoided But good master Parson let mee be bolde to call you so though perhaps you looke for an higher title what are the fewe things of many you haue obserued to declare master Hanmers constitution The first is his ignorance who hath alleaged out of Lyra Ab Ecclesia Romana iam diu est quod recessit gratia whiche hee interpreteth It is long sithence that the grace of God is departed from Rome whereas the worde is Graecia not Gratia Greece and not Grace as the whole circumstance of that which went before and followeth after doth declare But heerein Syr Defender you doe not so much strike master Hanmer for ignorance as your owne Dunces and Dorbels through his sides that not onely haue printed it so in all the copies that yet I haue seene and I am sure I haue seene aboue twentie but also your owne fellowes that so haue taken it and haue beene in as great rage with Lyra about this as for his opinion 〈◊〉 the sacramente Quarrell not therefore with vs aboute your owne slippes but laye the faulte where it is vppon your owne backes bay at those whose ignorance in time tofore hath passed all others among whom knowledge learning iudgement hath had small account and entertainement howesoeuer now Satan furnisheth you his instruments with som more knowledge or rather 〈◊〉 that you may doe the greater mischiefe But let this by the way be marked by the Reader that the supremacie of your pope by Lyra his confession out of your owne interpretation hath been greatly ecclipsed seeing Graecia as hee saith was long agoe departed from the Church of Rome whereas he might rather haue said that Rome was departed from Graecia The second thing you charge M. Hanmer with is as you speake in your foule mouth a foule lye that hee shoulde say that the Iesuits helde that all euery the things conteyned in holy 〈◊〉 are so wrapped in 〈◊〉 that the best learned can gather thence no certaine knowledge This you 〈◊〉 is impudent for they haue the plaine contrary and specially And radius in the very selfe same 〈◊〉 by him alleadged I knowe not whether M. Hanmer referred you to Andradius or no but I am sure that euen in the 〈◊〉 article of the Censure of 〈◊〉 there is a speciall tracte to proue generally that the scripture is ful of 〈◊〉 and therefore not to bee read of the common people and to that purpose are al those same authorities out of the Doctors set down by them as also by Bellarminus to deterre the people frō medling with them whereas in deed the ancient fathers haue no such meaning but rather teach men to be more diligent in reading them to pray more hartely earnestly that God will giue them vnderstanding and how hard soeuer they may seeme to be what difficulties soeuer are in them in regarde of the wicked such as are separated in his iuste iudgement from the know ledge of them yet God doth vouchsafe to 〈◊〉 his secretes to his chosen that hearing they shoulde heare and vnderstanding they should vnderstande and so attaine to 〈◊〉 and be saued Therefore Paule magnifieth his office being the Apostle of the 〈◊〉 to prouoke the Iewes his own 〈◊〉 that if it were possible by any meanes his miuisterie might be effect 〈◊〉 also to them he might saue some from amongest them as also he 〈◊〉 Timothie to attende vnto reading that hee might saue himselfe those that heatde him The fathers therefore when they speake of the hardnesse of the scriptures do it not to feare the children of God at all from reading hearing the worde of God For they exhort them here unto continually thorow out their whole writinges of what calling condition or sexe soeuer they be we haue not therfore to regarde what the Censure of Colen their Antididagma their coun cell their Colledge at Rhemes haue patched together to disuade from the reading of holy scriptures we know that the Ministerie of the Gospell is the only ordinarie way perpetually appointed of God to continue in his church from whence must flow the instruction of euery sort and building vp of euery member thereof vnto godlinesse righteousnesse And though to the blinde beetles spiders of the worlde light be darknes the sweetest most fragrant flowers yeeld matter of poyson to swine Acornes are fitter then pearles which that newe Testament set out of late doth therefore insinuate that the common people should feare to reade them yet his will being his last Testament is commended as the pledge and euidence of their inheritance in the same word whosoeuer shall goe about to keepe his Church from it consisting of all sortes they doe but hood wincke them and so leade them whether they list as they haue done all the princes and nations
no more in this then in the other For you say that the commaundementes are so possible to bee kepte that euery one maye keepe them that will and that this is the keeping of them if we doe as much as lyeth in vs then we attayne the full perfection of the lawe and keepe it in this life when we are renewed and haue charitie That Hierom and Augustine had no such meaning concerning our fulfilling of the law that is that it was possible to be fulfilled in vs it is plaine in other places of their workes For in his dialogue against the Pelagians he saith they are possible through grace but impossible to the strength of nature as Paule saith I 〈◊〉 doe all thinges in him that comforteth mee agayne of our selues we cannot thinke a good thought In Christe the commandementes of God are absolutely fulfilled but not in vs whether we be regenerate or vnregenerate that in him we may assure our selues of all righteousnesse and saluation For this cause hee came to fulfill the Lawe for vs and to take away the curse thereof and therefore Aug. giueth this counsaile if a man saith he think that any thing is impossible or hard in keeping the commandements let him not dwell in himselfe but runne to him that helpeth who therefore hath giuen the commaundement that he may stirre vp our desire and so may giue helpe And againe this then is to fulfil the law not to lust but who is there that liueth and can doe this The Psalme saith he helpeth vs that was euen now 〈◊〉 O Lord heare me in thy righteousnesse not in mine owne c. I am sure the Pharisie had as perfect a righteousnesse according to the lawe without Christe as any Papist in the worlde coulde haue and the publicane as little in himselfe and yet the one was iustified and the other reiected in his hypocrisie because that whiche the one had was without Christe and the other with Christe that is by fayth in him and not in him selfe quite contrary to that doctrine of your conspiracie of Trent who teache with the rest of your faction an inherent righteousnesse whereby you and they both pleade iustification before God of deserte and merite whiche is no lesse then blasphemous against the death passion and satisfaction of Christe and of like sorte is that you bring for the mayntenaunce of that counsel out of Saynt Augustine concerning Baptisme of taking faultes vtterly away and not racing them Saint Augustine against the Pelagians aduoucheth truely that the Sacrament of Baptisme to the children is the seale of their ingraffement and adoption into Christ and is the vndoubted token of the forgiuenes of all their sinnes But hereby Saynt Augustine doth not confirme with you that after Baptisme there remaine no sinnes in the children of God or that the Sacramentes of themselues in the very administration thereof as of the worke wrought doe so conferre grace and take away sinne as that whosoeuer is baptized with outward baptisme foorth with is saued or receiueth that grace which they had not before or afterwards as you blasphemously teach when as rather Baptisme is the ratification of those graces and giftes that are bestowed vpon vs. So that this neither declareth M. Hanmer to be a man of small reading nor your selfe of any sincere iudgement reading or learning that thus picke vniust quarrels agaynst his person when no occasion was offered And thus much for M. Hanmer whom albeit you pinch now and then afterwards yet this being the greatest gripe you giue him when your nayles were at length I trust you shal doe him lesse hurt hereafter seeing now they are payred and made more short In that you picke also a quarrell both with Maister Charke and him for passing ouer your vncomely iestes concerning his good fellowlyke dealing it deserued no aunsweare at all as neither this defence of yours doth from which if there were taken the rayling lying and vayne repeating of thinges obiected and long agoe aunsweared wherewith you haue enlarged and adorned it it woulde carry but a verie small bulke But you say these thinges are not personall but concerne his falshood and folly in doctrine and yet you cannot in trueth sette downe anie one poynt of false doctrine but are driuen to shamefull beggerie whiche is that because you account them false and foolishe whiche you doe the truest and wisest set downe by vs that teache not as you doe therefore forsooth it must needes be so And farther to witnesse what a manne of charitie you are you coulde bee content to wishe him as good a parsonage as 〈◊〉 desireth so it were without the hurte of his Parishioners wherein yet your charitie is mixed with suche gaule that you insinuate him to bee as ambitious as you perhappes woulde bee if the time serued ambitiously to seeke that wherunto you had no warrantable calling and if of your liberalitie you coulde affoarde him such a liuing yet it should be with the renouncing of the truth and so to his own condemnation But yet that you might seeme to speake vpon some ground and not to haue giuen your proude Censure without cause You runne through his whole firste booke and to bring both your aduersaries into hatred sometime you commende Maister Charke in respecte of Maister Hanmer to haue aunsweared to the purpose and sometime commende Maister 〈◊〉 in respecte of Maister Charke to haue answeared more plainly and more quietly with lesse rayling and more goodfellow like sauinge forsooth a foule lie or two Thus 〈◊〉 turne and wynde and please your selfe trimly in your toyes and follies Where you are iustly touched that with you is called rayling and if you be familiarly dealt with why then wee are presumptuous if wee exhorte you wee flatter you and if wee 〈◊〉 you your owne we raile As for Campions credite and woorship in Oxeford when M. Hanmer was a ladde it may bee aunsweared that M. Hanmer within a little was as olde as hee and though hee came to place of countenance yet hee had more then euer hee deserued and what if he had had the greatest that might bee when hee came once to bee a Traytour enemie to GOD and to his countrey all those things were iustely loste As for Maister Hanmers perswasion that he should haue lefte his vowes to bee performed by others and haue ioyned with the ministers of Christ abandoning that Frierlike life and haue tasted howe sweete the Lorde was it was a more friendlye and faithfull perswasion then hee had grace to hearken vnto If hee had harkened vnto it hee neyther had died so shamefull a death nor beene suche an offence to the Churche of GOD. And one thing I warne you of that vyle spirite that openeth your mouth in suche Expositions as you 〈◊〉 vppon those places of holie Scriptures Taste and see how sweete the Lorde is which scoffingly you expounde to bee thus muche Take a Wife and a Benefice and other sweete
you and flinging your abhominations in your faces they speake 〈◊〉 Gods enemies against perlecutors and tyrants for Christ and for his church against the corrupters and betrayers of all Churches and kingdomes His bytter speech therefore iustly bestowed in waight and measure vpon you was bestowed where it should be and is no warrande for you to bestowe it where you ought not and yet it is all that which you can say where with you gorge your bookes and fil vp not your lines but your leaues and great volumes to But howsoeuer you beare it amongest men a day shall come when you shall answere it to the Lorde whom you strike then you shall knowe what it is to haue opened your mouth against the Almightie and against his blessed holy truth But heere you will not passe ouer this heape whiche like a dounge farmer you haue laide together out of the writings of the Protestants which you set downe as a token to knowe their heartes and their spirits by abusing that place of our Sauiour and comparing them with Simō Magus as fitly and as truely as you are wont to alleadge the Scriptures But if you had turned it on the other side to your selues those scourilous railers of your sort you had fitted it better For in deede that 〈◊〉 and furious backbiting and slaundering spirite agreeth with all popish heretikes and suche as not beeing able to preuaile against Gods euerlasting truth flye alwayes to that diuelish and serpentine kinde of dealing But I wonder at your folly in interpreting that place of the Actes concerning Simon Magus against vs seeing your late young masters of Rhemes acquite Simon Magus in respect of vs that blasphemed not but prayed the Apostles to pray for him That same gaule of bitternesse and budde of vnrighteousness which Peter sawe in that Patrone and forefather of yours Simon Magus was that same roote of bitternesse that budded foorth gaule and wormewood a Metaphore declaring that the fountaine was corrupt and the very heart teynted with malice and venome But what maketh this againste bytter speeche and sharpe dealing againste hypocrites suche as your selfe is and against the enemies of God and seeing also in the same place Peter vseth asgreat sharpnesse againste Simon Magus as might be Of like fitnesse is that allegation out of the eight of the Romanes He that hath not the spirite of Christe is none of his Seeing it standeth well with the spirite of Christe which came vppon the Apostles in 〈◊〉 tongues to reproue the worlde of sinne to reproue errours and falshoods in mē with the zeale and heate of God And as for Papistes they cannot challendge this texte to them seeing they make a mocke of vs when being Christes wee assure our selues to haue the spirite of Christe whiche they are wont to blaspheme and accounte it an haynous presumption that any man shoulde so thinke I graunt that as the holy ghoste appeared in firie tongues so also hee had the for me of a Doue which settethe foorth the simplicitie and softuesse wherewith the children of God are indued But as God hath softe ones so hee hath sharpe ones and both necessarie for the building vp of his Saintes And you your selfe giue vs a plaister together with the wounde whilest you allowe heate in respect of the matter and you say that it is not the question seeing Christe and his Apostles and after them many holy fathers amongest whome you name S. Anthonie haue vsed very hoat and sharp speech Wee answere you if there bee any heate in our writinges that becommeth not Christes Gospell it is meete as comming from mans corruption that it fall to the grounde but if there be heate sharpnesse and biting Corziues that gnawe vpon your proude fleshe and is as a searing Iron to your festered botches and soares in respect of the matter of truth not of any hatred to your Parsons whom for the most part wee knowe not You must bee content to abyde it If Christ come with his whip and will chase you out of his house as he did the Iewes if hee will driue you out headlonge and ouerthrowe your Tressels and Tables making his house that is the house of prayer a denne of theeues whilest you make it a markette and a place of sale who canne resist him Herode may bee called Foxe and the Scribes and Pharisees generation of Vipers the Princes of Iudah Princes of Sodome and Gomorhe theeues and compapanions of theeues and yet this no spirite of errour but the spirite of Christe Nowe then for M. Charkes woordes against the Iesuites whom hee calleth Scorpions and poysoned Spiders they are Metaphors in respect of the matter liuely setting out their cursed practises and 〈◊〉 and are rightly giuen them I will not stande vpon the application It is apparant to all the worlde that they are such in truth as those noisome venemous beasts do set them out to be in nature and condition And also in regarde of their pettigree and of spring taking their beginning of a late obscure souldier master Hanmer might well enough in suche a case to set out the madnes of such monsters vse those excessiue speeches and that with more warrant a great deale then you might call him shamelesse slouen whom I knowe to haue dealte a great deal more clenly then your selfe or any those filthie sottes of your side in many their writings And as for master Fulke they that knowe him better then you knowe him to haue no ruffianlike spirit although when he is prouoked by your vnlearned and doltish dealing hee hath that courage that becommeth a professour and Preacher of the Gospell to giue you fit names and to prouoke you again according to your dealing And albeit these speeches seuered from circumstances that went before and after and from the occasions that made him to set such wordes downe seeme odious Yet they that are wise can consider that they are much mitigated when they are considered as I haue saide And surely I am perswaded there is no man that carieth flesh vpon his backe and liueth as a man amongst men that can bee so patient especially with papistes Gods sworne enemies whose religion as it is grosse and altogether built vpon superstition and folly so when they will confirme it by grosse abusing the scriptures by palpable ignorance and wresting the holy scriptures of malice whiche they peruert to their owne destruction as they doe in most of their writings though Gregorie Martin vniustly chargeth vs with it then must needes fall out of our pennes and mouthes some such names as agree best vnto them whether wee will or no when wee thinke least of them I write not this to the ende to defende euery worde that is vttered by vs. Wee are men and because the Lorde buildeth by vs and mainteineth his worke it is our speciall comforte that wee builde vpon the foundation That which is ours wee desire not
therfore true 〈◊〉 trine wee receiue him and admit him As for that which like a Spider hee hath sucked out of that booke hee wrote against K. Henrie and vrgeth that hee might bring him and the doctrine which he taught which was not his but Christes into hatred with some great personages of authoritie I answere generally vnto it that wheresoeuer hee hath not kept that modestie that became one that was carefull for the saluation of them with whom he dealt wee do not nor will not defende him But I cannot thinke but that Luther knewe well enough that king Henrie was not authour of that booke hee was wise enough to consider that though the booke did carrie the kinges name yet some pelting popish Proctor was the authour whom hee repayeth in the same name wherein it was published It is plaine that not long before that hee had written verie gently vnto him And if hee being misseled by such as he gaue credite vnto did ouer 〈◊〉 set himselfe against the truth in which wee ought to respect no mans person Luther coulde doe no lesse but looking vpp to God set himselfe againste him Neither is this gathered by Parsons or obiected by the rest of the Papistes for that hee or they haue any regarde to the Matestie of a 〈◊〉 or for any loue they did beare to that famous king but to bring this excellent man and the truth whiche is far worse into hatred for all stories are full howe their Pope and they togeather haue offered violence from time to time against Princes Noblemen and Gentlemen of all sortes and degrees They haue not onely defaced them with euill woordes bearing Gods person bearing his swoorde as beeing his Ministers when they haue stoode for Gods truth and in their lawfull right and libertie but they haue plucked their crownes from their heads stamped vpon their neckes and hunted them to death This pelting Parsons keeping his olde nature is still vppon the soares and the offalles and reuedge pleaseth him best The matter beeing sounde and good hee passeth ouer hee considereth no circumstances but like a malicious wretch as farre from duetifull regard of 〈◊〉 and authoritie as anye might bee yet hee will 〈◊〉 a regarde in him and those of his sorte And yet they loued king Henrie not so well as the 〈◊〉 their holy water for beeing his owne inuention and deuised for the better furnishing of Idolatrie hee coulde not but loue it too well but as well as the wicked are wont to loue God which is neuer a deal For of all the Princes that euer were in Englande king Henrie was hee that gaue the Pope the wounde And no doubt had hee liued but till these times wherein the light of the knowledge of God doth so abounde and breake foorth hee would haue seene all their treacherie and as he abandoned the popes authoritie opened a passage vnto the holy scriptures ouerthrewe their shrines and grosse Idolatries brought downe their Abbeys and dennes of filthinesse and knauerie so woulde he haue chased out all the reste of their abhominations But if in a modest spirite this heate of Luther had beene founde fault with with no disfauour of the truth I would not for my part haue founde great faulte with it But considering Luther wrote for the truth and not against it considering also that this 〈◊〉 and those of his fether neither honour the name of that nobleking nor his memorie for the causes aforesaide I truste I shall finde fauour of those that are in authoritie to speake the more plainely in it and 〈◊〉 report what their speeches also haue beene of him In all their bookes and writings where they mention his name they account of him as of an 〈◊〉 fallen from their church They had it once in deliberation whether they should haue taken vp his bodye from the place where it was interred to haue burned it to ashes as they did Wickliefes long after his death and that in the time of the reigne of his owne daughter In his life the Pope excommunicated him and sought all the meane she coulde to set all the Princes of the worlde vppon his 〈◊〉 It was his practise and the practise of his shauelinges and prelates to make that breach betwixt him and the Emperour that had beene at such concord Cardinall Poole was the instrument to stirre vp the French king against him They are wont to alleadge that place vpon Amos out of M. Caluin against him against others for taking the name of supreme head of the Church But is it because they would giue it And yet themselues gaue it king Henry and subscribed to it and wrote bookes in defence of it when not wihstanding those good men that professed the Gospel were deceiued not knowing in what meaning it was either giuen or taken And those kinges that tooke it neuer chalenged it as the Papistes gaue it neyther was it euer giuen by Protestantes to the ende that they shoulde bee heades of the Church by any absolute authoritie to giue it newe lawes against the worde or gouernment as some home Pope to 〈◊〉 it according to their owne willes against the trueth of God but as was meet being Gods Lieuetenauntes they were acknowledged to bee the chiefe and that the care both of the Churche and common wealth did belong vnto them that it was their duetie as did good Ezechias Iehosap hat other kinges aboue all thinges to care that the religion of God 〈◊〉 be established and floorishe according to his written worde And if the Papistes made king Henrie head of the Churche in their sense or if hee tooke it otherwise they neyther gaue him that title aright neither did he take it as he ought and in truth it was themselues I meane the papists that gaue it as I haue saide before But our Soueraigne nowe Princesse doth neither receiue it nor take it in that meaning for this were to make the Churche a monster not subiect vnto her head Iesus Christ but subiecte to a mortall man whiche were indeede to erect a newe Popedome But if any thing were so amisse then they shoulde not muche maruell at it seeing those that were reformers then were suche as were but newelie called from Poperie and therfore could not but smell of that corruption Againe the trueth was not discouered at the first dash King Henry was not a Prince of a yeres standing Many thinges fel out in his 〈◊〉 and vppon manie occasions that brought him from the worse to the better and made him see and know also much more then he could put in practise for feare as his owne prouerbe was of bringing an old wal vpon his head No doubt he had a singuler courage yet these monstars were then so big so were they harnessed with power such poysō had they in their 〈◊〉 that they must be vanquished by the grouth of truth in time season not vppon the sodaine And which of
about apparrell difference of meates obseruing of dayes diuersitie of orders but also about the waightiest matters not one teaching like another nor the same thinges but quite contrary Though therefore Luther in ouer great heat wryteth against the Tygurine Church and they reproue him againe for it sharpely as he deserued yet wherefore was this It was not about any such matter as could shake them off the foundation of faith neither doth this burden M. Charke with any shamelesse lie in defence of Luther For Luther might bee verye well called by him an holye and Diuine manne and by M. Whitaker a man of holy and blessed memorie and yet carrye the skarre of his rough and intemperate heate against so blessed and holy a Church as Tigurine was and specially in suche a matter And whereas you speake affirmatiuely and simplie that they called him an Arch-heretike it is not true they gaue him warning hee hauing vniustly called them a damnable sect that he should take heede least he declared him selfe an Archheritike And whereas you farther conclude that Luther had Diuelles which M. Charke denied because they wrote that he betrayed himselfe in these outragious speeches with his Diuels because they were 〈◊〉 you shewe your selfe too too malicious For they speake onlie of those intemperate spirites that had so inflamed him against them It is therefore no dissimulation in them to blind the people to giue him that praise that was due to him For howsoeuer he failed as a man in some pointes of lesse moment which was no maruel darknes hauing then couered the face of the earth the church of God being grieuously ecclipsed he being in a Friers cowle to the end it might humble him and those that woulde depend to much vpon his person to make them rest vppon that infallible rule of the trueth of God yet in trueth hee was both an holie and Diuine man of blessed and holie memorie whose praise we neither can nor wil enuie endued with most rare and excellent giftes from God of an excellent vnderstanding being enlightened of God himselfe with the light and knowledge of an heauenly doctrine a man of as exquisite learning wisedom eloquence courage zeale for the glory of god as that time might yeeld yet it is not meet neither do we make his writinges or any other mens sithens which haue beene more excellent equal with the word of God or rules of iudgement to stand vpon to the preiudice of that This honour we giue and reserue to God and to his holie worde alone Neither doeth this gainesaye Maister Charke for their care of concorde and vnitie in the Gospel For it maye appeare by their sundrie meetinges yeeldinges and greate toleration that at 〈◊〉 first they shewed one towardes another the studie and endeuoure they vsed for auoyding of termes when they agreed vppon the matter and taking suche as might beste fitte and expresse the trueth by their sundrye meetinges and presence of Princes on both partes and afterwardes when heates growe sorer and sorer from sparkes to flames and from flames to fires yet were there sundrie bookes written by men of more temperate spirites if it had beene the will of GOD to haue quenched the flame that that hurtefull contention might haue ceassed and as for the reformed Churches so farre foorth as they might without the betraying of the truth it is certayne they haue euermore kept peace and accounted them as brethren howesoeuer some amongest the others haue rather choosen to ioyne with you Papists and you with them as they haue beene 〈◊〉 in Religion to you and you to them The rest concerning this matter I leaue to Maister Charke himselfe And so doe I those Treatises whether the Iesuites be 〈◊〉 and of Friers Nunnes which you wil needs haue Religious seeing they are matters of doctrine only I wil note some weake collectiōs a few vncomely slanderous speeches vttered by you so passe it ouer as filth vnworthy to be ouerturned hauing also touched them as much as I thought necessary Heere you cauil againe at M. Charkes confuse order when hee is compelled of necessitie to followe yours and not his owne which in verie deede is nothing but a confuse heape without all order wholly besides the matter For what a reason is this to proue a different life from others from the examples of Elizeus Daniel Iohn Baptist and such extraordinarie persons Because they extraordinarily called of God fell from the common course of men to liue extraordinarily Why therefore the liues of Monkes Friers Iesuites and the rest leading a different life from the rest doe it by their authoritie and lawfully according to the word of God But if it be plaine euidēt that these extraordinary things which were in these extraordinary men that measure of the spirite working of miracles and manner of life be ceassed together with thē and haue not bin found in anie of that sort it followeth that they are ceassed how soeuer such brainsicke heades shal boast of them This argument of yours is like the rest of your arguments Elizeus to make the water sweete cast in salt Ergo we must haue holy water God said let vs make man according to our image Ergo images are to be made in the Church These extraordinary men exempted from men led a different life from the commō sort of men Ergo they were Monks Friers ergo a different life is set downe for vs which is a Non sequitur vnlesse you can proue that Iesuites from Elias from Elizeus Iohn Baptist and Christ haue that spirit of theirs doubled vpon them so as they haue the same testimonie from God of their calling and the same giftes to warrant their calling by And what though Hierō setting before these that were in the beginning far better then these later wicked ones idle lossels that consume the fat of the earth and are as the plague of caterpillers doth stir vp those that in his time liued in out places laboured and were vigilant in studying the holie Scriptures not mē of any professed religiō in the ministery but such as indeuoured to be made fit for the ministery of the gospel by som things that were in those singuler and extraordinarie men must these therefore be drawen in Rule and by and by make a newe ministerie and order so we shoulde not haue so manie notable men so many names and professiōs but indeed so many orders to hang vpō them as vpon their patrons And in deede this hath alwayes beene the patcherie of Poperie not to looke to Christianitie and to follow those things which are to be followed of vs but to looke to men and to beare their profession and order frō men so that among them in trueth Christ was vtterly lost and forgotten and this they receiued from the Gentiles as they did most of their things besides Neither is M. Charkes argument absurd that if
the Kings and sixteenth Chapter hee wrote onely vpon two bookes and the last was ended by Wolphius But as in this so in all the rest you bring vs very little of your owne reading but that which others haue scraped together for you As for our Eatons and Hinshawes if suche were aswell punished among you as they are amongst vs you woulde haue as few such loose liuers as wee haue and if both you and they were punished vppon iuste conuiction so as we desire the law of God hath appointed you should neuer trouble and pester the worlde The more wee haue the more is our sorowe and yet you haue no cause to hit them in our teethes since they are punished amongst vs and therefore not iustified by vs. You tell vs of one or two but wee coulde tell you of thousandes and those not punished but maintained because forsoth they were anoynted by that priuiledge exempted from the hande of the Magistrate Your other prophane and filthie speech woulde rather bee corrected by the rodde of correction as in an impure malicious 〈◊〉 then bee confuted by wryting as in a ciuill and honest aduersarie Your conclusion in deed maketh vp all and shall stande that the Iesuites whatsoeuer they prate of chastising and whipping themselues yet they are no fooles who haue not bodyes of yron but sensible as ours are and therefore will lay on soft enough for hurting them selues Your answere to the last reason hath no reason nor truth in it for neither is their order grounded vpon the holy scriptures nor vpon the practise of any auncient fathers no more then these superiors whom you name are superiours of the Church or haue any ordenance from God therefore the Iesuites order is a sect separated from Christe hath no part of that communion of Saints Whether the Iesuits vowed or no after the example of those heretiks that whipped themselues I leaue to M. Chark further to discusse but I take it howsoeuer you denie it that in such hard works they would be loth to adde that vnlesse they were bound by the vowe of their profession And herein you cannot denie but they whip themselues as those heretikes did thinking to attaine thereby a greater perfection then others But you laugh at M. Charke and I say you may laugh at your own follie and your laughter is madnesse for there were heretikes longe before these were bredd in your boweles that whipped themselues long before prating Prateolus or Alphonsus were borne and you learned to whippe your selues long before euen of them Baals Priestes not onely whipped thēselues but launced thēselues For the name of Iesuites you stumble at your owne straw graunting that which is in controuersie yet wrangling as though some wrong were offered you And it appeareth plainly in M. Chark by the places quoted in his booke 〈◊〉 in those Chapters that he vseth the same word And yet you say he is to impudent to attribute it to Turrian because he iustly calleth it a blasphemie for drawing to thēselues the name of his office yee call him 〈◊〉 gentleman and communicate that name vnto him which is none of his but yours For none haue Syrs added to their christen names alone but either knaues or popish Priestes and yet you tell him hee may haue his part in that comfortable name of Iesus if he exclude not himselfe wherein as you doe but tell vs that we knew before ouerthrow your rule of perfection so also you witnes som freewil with the Pelagiās to be in vs of your liberalitie graunt more thē in truth you mean for I suppose your meaning is not that all that haue part of saluation in the name of Iesus should enter by by into your new deuised order of Iesuits howsoeuer otherwise they be christians which yet maketh them not a distinct order frō other Christiās as Iesuites of y t name of Iesus do But you say this is no iniurie to others that you shew by fumblet exāples of seruing y t Q. onely with more deuotion then others whereby you insinuate that Iesuits are more deuout forsooth then others And that the Iesuites taking this name properly vnto themselues doe no more but testifio that they are deuouter seruants of his then others euen like as they that serue the Prince leauing all other things wherein the comparison is vnequall the one beeing lawfull when one is lawfully called for els none can bee a Pentioner or of the guard without iniurie to thē that are of that office the other being vtterly vnlawfull from the essentiall name of Iesus to drawe into an order and howsoeuer you iest at ryming Elderton whiche is one of your common places both in N. Discouerie and in other bookes as also in this yet you cannot so easilie auoid it For if you that will bee Iesuits ought to doe as Iesus did in all thinges to followe him to preach freely to worke myracles which you hold stil to be necessary in your Church and if in any your deuised orders then ought it to be most especially in that principall and high order for I thinke you will not suffer S. Francis to goe before him howsoeuer you beare with the virgin Marie for your new Annuncianists Why then you must like wise walk vpon the waters raise vp the dead cure the lame giue sight to the blinde c. as Iesus did Neither can that bee alike that Christians must doe the like too if they wil be called christians For the name Christian is a name common to all that are baptised into the common name of Christe and no name of any sect or order as is your proude name of Iesuites For so your order shold haue been 〈◊〉 in vpon and you would not be contented that euerie one shoulde haue parte in your hypocritical sect become fathers For if euerie one that is a christian were also a Iesuite why then the children borne and baptized within the couenant both young and olde that are Christians should be Frierly brothers and fathers both at once Concerning your religious orders so much hath been saide by many learned men as I neede not to stand vpon it A great difference hath bin shewed betwixt those auncient religious men as you call them that liued in times past and yours They sorted themselues into priuate places into Woods Deserts for the sauegarde of their liues where after wardes as it were in 〈◊〉 they might take oportunitie not onelie the better to serue God and to bee from the hauing of those common corruptions that were amongest men but followed their lobours labouring for their maintenance with their hands so farre off from being any secte or challenging any ministerie in the Gospel that they neither bear any mans name or tooke any mans office vpon them nowe what likenesse is there betwixt them and your vermin In deede afterwardes the worlde growing from worse to worse that which they did in
vnder shadow of a truth to vtter two or three lies together But hee that cannot catch a sishe is glad of a frog M. Charke quoteth those places out of Augustine to prooue what the Monkes were in his time First that they were farre vnlike ours And then that hauing vowed and yet lyuing lecherously as some of them did not following that whereto they had consecrate them selues but running with others of the worlde into lewde and lecherous life he put 〈◊〉 them in remembraunce therof But if he had seene that which we haue seene sithence he would haue cried out vpon such filthy Votaries as yours haue beene who vnder pretence of their vowed virginitie haue beene the verye goates and boares of the worlde and woorse too committing those sinnes that are not to be named Augustins telling thē of their sin doth not impeach the remedy of their sinne whiche is that whiche God hath set downe in his woorde He that cannot contayne let him marrie Besides you clyppe S. Augustines sentence For though he put a difference betwixte them that haue vowed and others yet in the same place hee teacheth that these are not the best vowes but he would rather that we should vowe our soules to God answearing an obiection and telling vs how to doe it by holy manners by chast thoughtes and fruitful workes by departing from euill and doyng that which is good I graunt that good and holy vowes are to be performed but if this be the way to perfection and a thing that pleaseth God best more to liue vnmarried then married although I deny not but it is an excellent gift of God and a thing that may make a man to go more cheerfully thorow that seruice God hath layd vpō him specially in the time of persecutiō why thē it ought to be followed of all religious men without exception but this cannot be For euen amongest the Apostles some were married men so were diuers holy men since both mynisters others And though you cānot suffer by any meanes this holy ordinance of God which yet you make a Sacrament which God hath appoynted and sanctified for the preseruation of mankinde and for a mutuall helpe and comfort one towardes another and a remedie against sinne to all men and women excepting none to be in place yet me thinkes it is horrible that you shoulde eyther preferre whoredome before it as you haue done or account it sinne when such as cannot contayne do takt it S. Aug. though you alleadge him afterwards that though a Nunne 〈◊〉 not marry but onelie haue a will to marry it is damnable yet he saith in the Chapter following and els where that such a marriage after such a vow is yet a lawful marriage he blameth them that call them adulteries And Epiphanius also though he blame such breaches of vowes and complayne of their rashnes yet he saith that iudgement is better then cōdemnation Those that play the 〈◊〉 secretlie or liue in whoredome vnder the colour of sole life and continencie to the ende they bee not shamed before men yet he sayeth God seeth them that seeth al secrets and wil finde out all their abhominations But hee concludeth that they were better to marry against their vowe and so after repentaunce be reconciled to the Churche then to adde sinne vnto sinne As for Basill though hee were ouer partiall in this poynt making Adam to bee of a mortall seede by marriage and Iesus Christe of an immortall seede by the incorruption of Virginitie as though heauen were prepared for none but for virgins which yet should help your rable of Friers 〈◊〉 but very little because vnder the colour of virginitie they were filthes brothels yet in the same book he wold haue such rather to marry and in the feare of God to gouern their families thē to do as they do And therfore he exhorteth thē to auoid these wanton baits wherby they wer allured takē He would not haue thē to trot vp down to bridals nor to giue ouer thēselues to filthy lusts As for Chrisost. authority Hieroms it is meet that when God speaketh they shold hold their peace herein they were marked knowen to dissent from the holy scriptures as men erring whilest they durst affirme that the marriages of such were woorse then adulteries and therefore M. Charke need not to blush at any thinge by you alleadged It is no new stuffe that you bring but such as hath bin worne out long agoe As for the lye you lay vpon M. Charke it is your owne and not his For he speaking of the old Monks onely saith they liued in their houses without superstitious vowes but he denieth not simply that they made vowes and the question is not whether they made any but how wel they did when they made them hauing neither abilitie nor warrant so to doe from God Concerning that whether Augustine the Doctor were a Frier or no which you would seeme to proue out of the 94. Sermon of Ambrose where mention is made of a blacke cowle and gyrdle of Lether your note booke deceiuing you For it is the 92. de Baptismo it prooueth no such thing but rather that he being chaunged from an Infidell and becomming a Christian his garmentes were also changed Besides that there is no mention in that place of the name of Monke and if there were both in that and others yet it prooueth not that Monkes were Fryers and if Augustine the Doctour were the founder of any monasteries yet these monasteries were far vnlike those Abbeyes that superstition erected afterwardes If any suche were they were schooles and Colledges for the rearing vp of a holie seed that migh 〈◊〉 afterwards supply the work of the ministery As for the other Frier Augustine if you wil needs haue him a Frier a foūder of Friers it appeareth by the booke of their order which I haue seene that it is of a later brood then Aug. the doctor it is plaine by histories written by men of your owne that the later Augustine which you wil haue to be our apostle was as ill a man in euery respect as M. Fulk hath reported him to be therfore I wil blot no more paper about him But if it be a vertue to haue beene a Frier mee thinkes you shoulde not twyte men with it so repochfully no more then you should charge Paule to haue been a Pharisey and if it be a wicked order as it is it is no shame to haue left it rather to haue chosen in the feare of God to be coupled with an honest wife then with a lewde strumpet and thus much in defence of him whom you call my L. of Hereford Concerning Christes spirit of voluntary pouerty which you are so often in hād with your exception against M. Charks reply is nothing He asketh whē Christ whipped himself Your Reply is he needed not because he had not
He speaketh it not simplie as though Christians setting themselues against the Turke fighting against him doe therein sette them selues agaist GOD and fight against him But he saith that vnlesse Antichrist be ouerthrown and brought into order vnlesse wee forsake our sinnes and turne vnto God we striue in vaine against him being Gods rodd and not couching vnder it we fight against God hee sheweth that by our warres which haue beene made as couers to maintaine the Popes Cuppe he his forces haue beene mightely increased and the Pope hath established his tyrannie by his often consultations by his often prouocations to warre against the Turke and by gyuing out his Bulles and Pardons he hath sucked from all Christendome the fatte and wealth of it so hath weakened it against the Turk and hindered al reformation when it hath pleased God to lighten the harts of any Princes to see the trueth And good S. Robert is this to make a path to the Empire of Infidellitie The fift absurditie also is set down with no lesse malice then the former For whereas Parsons woulde beare men in hand that Luther shoulde dislke the Pope for holding that the soule is immortal the truth is that Luther disliketh that he should take vpon him beside the scriptures to make any new articles of fayth amongst which he reckoneth this to bee one as though it had no ground in the scripture that the soule is immortall but only rested vpon the Popes authoritie So the Pope doth also in other great matters of our fayth as in the misterie of the holy trinitie in the proceeding of the holy Ghost in the 〈◊〉 of Infants In al which he beareth vs in hand that we haue no scripture because we haue not their very words set downe though the matters be sufficiently confirmed by it These and such like Luther indeede calleth 〈◊〉 of the Romish dounghil And as for the last which hee citeth 〈◊〉 of his booke De captiuitate 〈◊〉 in the title of baptism this he hath taken 〈◊〉 of railing Staphilus for in that 〈◊〉 there are no such words in Luther and thereupon I wil gage my credit For wheras he saieth that neither 〈◊〉 nor angel on earth can lay any law vpon any Christian furder then he wil him selfe whereby he would insinuate the 〈◊〉 of al politike lawes and common weales by which they stande the trueth is that Luther speaketh of vngodly lawes brought into the Church by the Pope and such like besides the word of God superstitious in them selues and against Christian 〈◊〉 whereof hauing reckoned vp some in baptisme at last he commeth to this conclusion these are his words I say therfore neither the Pope nor the Byshop nor any man hath any right of ordaining or establishing any one sillable ouer a christian man vnlesse it be by his own consent and what soeuer is done otherwise is done by a tyrannicall spirit Therefore prayers fastinges donations and whatsoeuer other thinges else the Pope hath established in all his decrees not so manye as wicked hee hath ordayned them and exacted them by no right at all and as often as hee doth attempt any of these thinges so often he sinneth against the libertie of the Church c. We may therefore here see the monstrous malice of these wretches that thus pinch Luthers workes to bring him into disgrace with Christian Princes as though he were a subuerter and an ouerthrower of al wholsom lawes and good common weales Wheras he will not be aunswered but will needes haue it so that Martin Luther had bodilye conference with the deuill because lying Lindane and the rest of that Popish crue hauing receiued it by a lying tradition one from an other do aduouch it and because by a certaine Prosopopaeia Luther him selfe in that same booke De Missa Angulari translated by Iustus Ionas whome he calleth Luthers Cooke though hee were a Doctour of Diuinitie Whether this were so or no I must leaue it to the iudgement of all that feare God neyther dooth it any whit disaduauntage the matter though Luther had had euen such a strong assault that the Deuil might haue made semblaunce to haue appeared vnto him in some shape For he hath not onely assaulted many notable and godly men but also hath in some sorte appeared vnto them before our Sauiour Christ and euen since to Christe himselfe and to others hee hath appeared sundry times but yet he could neuer vanquishe them Why therefore should they obiect this against Luther who setteth out but the spiritual conflictes that he had with him which by the grace of God he ouercame And therefore alwayes keeping him selfe fast vnto the trueth was neyther possessed nor vanquished of that foule and wicked spirite It is not denied but that Luther according to his own reporte had many a sharpe combatte with the suggestions and tentations of that foule and wicked fiend as al the godly haue had haue and shal haue to the end of the world But what maketh this to proue a reall and sensible conference together with them Or how standeth it that therefore Luthers knowledge in diuinitie should be from the Deuil when beeing shaken of the Deuil in those false groundes wherein hee had stoode of Poperie and Idolatrie he betooke him selfe to the word of God and to such a ground as put Satan to flight Wherein he found rest and peace and exceeding comfort to his soule which he hath left in his writinges as a fauour of life vnto many that haue beene likewise afflicted His comfortable Commentaries vppon the booke of Genesis vppon the Psalmes and specially vpon those Psalmes of degrees and vppon the Epistle to the Galathians wherein as in a myrrour they may see the mans spirite shall testific to all posteryties that that which he learned hee learned not from the Deuill nor from man but from God and his holye and blessed worde And therefore Parsons aduise thy self wel take heede least in speaking against a man for man that is to vphold the kingdome of Antichrist thou do not open thy foule mouth against G O D. Though Luther be dead and man cannot requite it yee God will bee auenged of it If malyce had not blinded thine eyes and hatred sharpened thy tuskes to strike agaynst the trueth thou wouldest haue beene ashamed of the fome that hath falne from thee Thou myghtest haue seene that thyne owne Popes not one but many haue had familiar acquaintaunce with the Deuil haue had him at their commaundement to helpe them to their Popedoms and to assist them in other their accursed and abhomynable attemptes for the confirmation of their false and abhominable relygion And in trueth I doe not onlie saye it but by the grace of God will bee redie to proue it against thee and all the rest of you that the Deuil is not onely the Authour of al your religion the Father of Antichriste who is the Pope
frō faith to works making them the cause of iustification breathing out his poysō with a sweet breath with sweete words couering his deadly venome Leuit. 20. Gen. 4. 1. Re. 22. 38. 3. Reg. 2. 37. Rom. 13. Iugdes 14. Mark this frūper at the phrase of the scripture As though if twenty had alledged one thing hee that alledged but ten or two had concealed the 〈◊〉 Reade 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Col. Censura Fol. 17 117. 220. Pet. a Soto contra 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psal. 119 1. Pet. 2. Iohn 15. Luke 15. 1. Tim. 3. Collos. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mulus 〈◊〉 seabit * In the disputations the last day when it was agreed that both sides should stay tyll their 〈◊〉 were set down In the preface to the dispu The 〈◊〉 which the Papists at 〈◊〉 require before they 〈◊〉 dispute What cause they had may appear by their own stories by the cruell death they were put to So doth Staphi Ius Ficklerus the rest to bring those that were sound godly into 〈◊〉 1. Cor. 14. 32 〈◊〉 a Soto 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVittenb cap. de concilijs Alfonsus a Castro aduersus Heres lib. 1. cap. 8. Verractus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cap. 24. c. 1. Cor. 〈◊〉 15. August 〈◊〉 de correctione 〈◊〉 cap. 30. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Epi. cap. 3. Where knowledge and trial is to be sought August lib. 1. de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cap. 1. ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. 〈◊〉 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Our doctrine the same that the Prophets Christ and his Apostles haue taught Papists 〈◊〉 all things for the praise of men Mat. 6. Read all the Fathers this shalbe found true Councels against Councels Fathers against fathers Lib. 〈◊〉 Reade their workes who shal and they shal find in thē iudging thē by the Scriptures 〈◊〉 Illirie lib. de 〈◊〉 Papist Traditions infinite variable vnnecessary hurtful offensiue See their Pontificall their masse booke and such other good stuffe 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 Catechisme See the harmonie of the confessions of the Churches that cleare vs from this slaunder VVhē Luthers booke De captiuitate Babilonica was written King Henrie not the head of the Church as the Papistes vnderstand by head in their Antichrist Heretikes are to be cut off not such as they cal Heretikes but suche as they are thēselues who are proued to be Heretikes by Gods word This also he handleth afterwardes Concerning Luthers heat 〈◊〉 The 〈◊〉 of the Papists The papistes account that a fault in vs which they challenge them selues VVho vse grea ter libertie the Papists or we we that onelie keep our selues to the scripture or they that roue vp and downe are boūded within no lists or boundes Chrisost. in Ioh. bomil 16. 〈◊〉 3. in opere imperfecto Ioh. 10. 2. Pet. 1. 20. 2. Tim 3. 17. 〈◊〉 Ioh. 4. Testamente 〈◊〉 in the annotat vpon 1. Tim. cap. 2. Lut. Cortez in li. 3. distin 3. 〈◊〉 Aquin. Iohn de 〈◊〉 Cremata Iren aus lib. 1. Epiphanius August Read Tapperus Ficklerus the whole broode of them This may appeare through out S. August in many places They that denie the offices of Christ his kingdome priesthood prophetshippe they denie Christe Ephe. 4. For he meneth by Puritās not the Anabaptists spiritual illuminates but those that dutiefully seek the reformation of the Church 〈◊〉 Heb. 10. 11. c. Authoritie of the Pope vsurped The Masse an Idoll of the Popes making patched togeather by many long after Christes ascention 〈◊〉 7. 9 See there how trimly they alleadged interpreted the 〈◊〉 in defence of 〈◊〉 images Syricius The place 〈◊〉 of the 19. of 1. Tim. 4. 〈◊〉 Sozomenus So 〈◊〉 onius Tutelares dei Camp in Epist. set out by 〈◊〉 us In Paris a great 〈◊〉 against Iesuits and wheresoeuer they come where other such vermine are like vipers they gnaw out the bellies one of another Hier. in Epist. ad Eustochiū ad Rusticum Concil 〈◊〉 Concil 〈◊〉 Quest. 16. sub 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Guliel de sancto amore Nicolaus de Cle. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Real presence An. bros hb. 〈◊〉 Sacra cap. 〈◊〉 And. in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 11. Lib. de Sacra Lib. in Iob. 4. cap. 14. In 〈◊〉 22. This also he mētioneth afterward where looke for further answeare Vowes Psal. 76 Perfection in selling all Things spokē to singuler persons in respect not simply The place of Iames concerning Iustification 2. Cor. 9. Fathers Our owne writers Who is Caietane or Conturene against the whole Church Disputation Peter Martir first Latimer Ridley Cranmer at Oxeford in Queen Maries dayes Maister Philpot M. Elmer Haddon Cheney and the rest that disputed in the Cōuocatiō house 1553. Octob. 18. Reade M. Foxes booke of Acts and Monuments printed in 1570. fol. 1571. fol. 1579 in manie places Conference at VVestminster anno primo Regni Eliza. 〈◊〉 King 17. 4 Reade the spanish Inquisitiō Acts monuments of M. Foxe M. Cryspius historie in French of their martyrs and the last French history of the beginning grouth of the churches in Fraunce Popish writers 〈◊〉 agreed yet about the Canonical scriptures whiche are the bookes and matching their constitutions with Gods word 〈◊〉 20. cap. de libellis dist 19. cap. in Canonicis Agath dist 19. cap. Sic omnes Read August vpō this place and Hierome vpon 38. of Esay Ephe. 6. Gathered out of their 〈◊〉 Bibles Mat. 26. Luke 22. Luke 23. Rom. 8. Reed Rationale Diuinorū Gab. Biel Vaux his Catechism and there you shall see suche misteries fetched out of the scriptures as are pitifull to heare VVhy salte creame spitle are vsed why they haue lights at noone dayes why bels ringe not on good Friday but they vse wodden clappers and suche 〈◊〉 stuffe General 〈◊〉 Reade Onuphrius ioyned with Platina in his Epitom Doctors Consent in the truth allowed by vs. Vniuersalitie antiquitie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Catholique what it meaneth Howe wee are departed because they are gone from the truth 〈◊〉 Tim. 4. 1. Aug. con Epist. 〈◊〉 cap. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The 〈◊〉 worst great consent in 〈◊〉 In their 〈◊〉 Testament set out by the scho lers of 〈◊〉 ful of ridiculous 〈◊〉 1. Thes. 2. Ioh. 10. In his 〈◊〉 before his booke of images Diui. 17. 76. c. * Belarmi quest 5. in dicta scriptis Cocleus Hosius Pet. a 〈◊〉 Stapletonus 〈◊〉 7. lib. 2. cap. 12. saith that faith is not learned out of the scriptures Again that the holy ghost teacheth the church many things without thescripture Censu Colonien fol. 2 20. Andradi lib. 2 Concil Trident. Andradius in defen Conc. Tri. priest of Potiers of Later an in conc 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Papae Eccius Verractus Pighius de Hierarch The impietie of the papistes in interpreting the holy scriptures In antididagmate Colo. sol 17. The doctors corrupted and many bastarde writings vnder their names thrust vpon vs. Euseb. li. 3. 〈◊〉 38 Nicepb lib. 3. cap 18. Epipha 〈◊〉 1. to 2. beresis 38. 〈◊〉 in vita Clem 〈◊〉 Gennadi in catal