But if he wer not a priest what was he then Could he be greater The psalme vttreth that he was a priest Moyses and Aaron emongest his priestes They wer therefore both our Lordes priestes Here I beseche yow good readers behold the false and vneuen dealing of an heretike the author of the harborough of whom a little before I made mention He minding to elude this manifest exposition of S. Austen answereth in this manner that S. Austen was ignorant in the Hebrue tongue whereby being easely deceauid and wrapped in thiese two places of scripture wherein there seemed contradiction he leaueth them at a iarre as he found them the one to saie he was a priest thother to saie that he was none Which manner of interpretation and reconciling of scriptures how it is to be liked he leaueth he saieth to the learned reader to iudge For answer to this mere cauillation of this vaine iangler before I procede any farder because he shall not abuse S. Austens ignorance in the Hebrue tongue to the deceauing of yow good readers yow shall vnderstand that S. HieroÌ„ was not ignorant therin and yeat doeth he so expounde the place The .70 interpretours chosen and picked as it wer out of the best learned and cuÌ„ning est in that tongue by all likelihood that could be found Sanctes Pagninus and Sebastianus Munster yea that most learned Rabbine Abrahamus Esdras â— Iewe born wer not ignorant but pearlesse ParagoÌ„s therein and yeat doe all thiese expound the Hebrue word to signifie priestes as Sainct Austen doeth And where he saieth that S. AusteÌ„ being thus wrapped in thiese two contrarie textes was driuen to leaue them as he found theÌ„ the one to saie he was a priest thother that he was none in th'one he hath beliedâ— the holie scriptures in thother he hath sclaundred that holie and learned bishop For where or what scripture saieth that Moyses was no priest as he saieth that one texte saide he was an other that he was none Let him show somme such scripture or elles hath he lied apon the scripture He may show I confesse where the scripture as there apon S. Austen made his obiection speaking of him calleth him not by the name of a priest which in many other places it doeth also of Aaron Is this therefore a good reason to saie The scripture in that place made no mention that he was a priest therefore it saied that he was none Yea truelie euen as good as is this The scripture maketh no mention that th'apostles wer euer baptized therefore it saieth that theie neuer wer baptized Or doe thiese textes make anie iarre the one affirming the other denieng to saie Aaron the priest in one place and Moyses and Aaron his priestes in an other But as this is a lewd lye so to goe about to note S. AusteÌ„ to the world of such ignorance in the scriptures as though he had not byn able to vndoe this simple knot a knot if it be but was forced to leaue the two places at a iarre vnreconciled I can call it no better but euen by the name of wilfull malice As appeareth by that that guilefully in alleaging after their maÌ„ner without cotatioÌ„ the easelier thereby to deceaue the reader this place of S. Austen he left out thiese later wordes Ergo erant illi domini sacerdotes therefore they wer Moyses and Aaron our lordes priestes Now here note I beseche yow diligently that ar of the learned sorte thiese wordes of S. Austen which import in them thus much It maie seeme saieth he to some man that Moyses because the scripture nameth there onelie Aaron by the name of a priest and not him wer no priest but of them that so gather I would know if he wer no priest what he was then whether they can make him King Emperour or any thing that should be greater And although the scripture in that place doe not call him by the name of his office yet neither doeth it therefore deny him to be a priest nor we ar destitute of other places to proue the same by as namelie this psalme wherein expresselie he is so called Wherefore seing neither that place or any other doe saie that he was not a priest and there is plaine scripture that doeth call him one I maie boldelie conclude Erant ergo illi sacerdotes domini Therefore they wer bothe our lordes priestes This is no dout the true sense of S. AusteÌ„s wordes wherebie yow maie see how greate the difficulties wer in which he was wrapped and how he wouÌ„d him selfe out But then saieth this stout champion there wer two high priestes at once which could not be by the lawe and also Moyses must nedes be inferior to Aaron because Aaron and not he is there called the high prieste This obiection hath in dede a showe of somewhat although in their manner of gouernemeÌ„t to haue manie heades wer no greate absurditie at all But to this obiection answereth most fully S. Austen him self in an other place after this sorte Cùm ergo videatur c. Seing therefore that the highe priestehood seemeth to haue begonne in Aaron what thincke we that Moyses was If he wer not a priest how did he theÌ„ all those thinges which he did If he wer howe say we that the high priestehood began in his brother Aaron Although the Psalme also where it is saide Moyses anâ— Aaron emongest his priestes doeth remoue all cause of â—oubte affirming that Moyses was also a priest Wer they therefore Moyses and Aaron bothe chief priestes or rather Moyses the chief and Aaron vnder him yea Aaron also the chiefest in respect of the bishoppes apparell and Moyses the chief in reâ—pect of a more excellent ministery For â—t the beginning waâ— it said to Moyses of Aaron He shall be thy director in those thingeâ— that ar to be handled with the people and thow his in such busines as is to be done with god Hetherto S. Austen by whome we learne that it is no absurditie that two should be chief in two seuerall respectes the one in ouerseing and prescribing what shalbe doeÌ„ th'other in practising and putting in execution the thinges prescribed the one absolutely without relation the other in a respect by a comparison As in the newe lawe a figure whereof diuerse well learned meÌ„ haue expounded this priestehood of Moyses and Aaron to be Christ we see is of his churche onely simply and absolutely the head Peter and after him his successors no otherwise but in comparison of other inferiour membres Moyses as he was with god more familier theÌ„ anie other as he receiued immediatly without the help of anie other instrument to conuey it by vnto him from the mouthe of almightie god his holie will and pleasure he was there is no doute thereof the high and chiefest priest Aaron also as he was by almightie god chosen to publish to the people those thinges which Moyses had giuen him in charge as he offred the
He made psalmes and wrote himnes to the glory and praise of god And who is there I praie yow that at this day forbiddeth anie prince or king to doe the like He appoincted and established to serue the temple for euer some to sing some to plaie on the organes some and a greate some the scripture hath fower thousande to kepe the dores And what conclude they hereof if Dauid had appointed plaiers and singing men as he did not but willed the chief of the Leuites to appoint some of their brethern thereto that therefore he was chief gouernour in all causes ecclesiasticall O what newe logick is sodenly sprong vp with their newe diuinitie How manie notable Kinges hath our littell countrie had which in their daies haue established for the like purposes like fundations by our aduersaries at this daie almost all ouerthrowen of whom no one euer by this meanes thought him selfe anie thing the more auctorised to gouerne in matters of religion the cleargie of his countrie But for this example that which I haue allreadie saide maie suffise bothe because I thincke they leane not much theretoe for that theie can showe no greate store of Kinges yea I maie be bould to say none at all by them persuaded to builde anie churches or to establish anie fundacions of such as shoulde there continually serue god and also for that the place it selfe howe euer in the apologie the conclusion conteine more then the premisses semeth not to be brought in directly to proue any such thinge For our apologie which alleageth it hath onely quodammodo praefuit sacerdotibus that is and in a māner or after a sort he was aboue the priestes And therefore will I procede to their other examples Salomon they say builded and dedicated to god a churche made to the people an oration concerning religion and worshiping of god deposed Abiathar the bishop placing Sadoc in his roome Ezechias purged the temple commaunded the lightes to be kindled encense to be doen and sacrifice offred after the old accustomed manner finally the brasen serpēt which was then worshipped by the people to be vtterlie taken awaie and broken all to fitters Iosaphat toke awaie the hilles and wooddes whereby the people was hindred from the common temple of Ierusalem Iosias warned the priestes and bishops of their duties Ioas restreined their riot and insolency and last of all Iehu put the wicked prophetes to deathe These be th'examples good readers which the aduersaries to the truthe bring for the maintenaunce of the contrarie out of the old Testament Which manner of reasoning from examples in that age vsed if it might be at these daies in all poinctes laufull to folow what and how houge a nombre of inconueniences might by iust consequence thereapon be easelie grounded and brought in I nede not here to reherse anie man but meanelie exercised in the holie scriptures may with him self easely conceiue If the miracles examples significatiue and singuler priuileages doē practised and graunted in that age might without any daunger aswell be to the present esta te of the churche which now is drawen applied and accomodate as the morall preceptes of that lawe maie and ar whie haue not then the Kinges now a daies as many wiues as had King Dauid then why should it not be as laufull for the cleargie I will not onely say to admonishe and reprehend to put Kinges doing amisse at this tyme to death as it was at that for Samuel to cut in pieces with his owne hādes the body of Agag king of Amalech why not for thē to depose kinges aswell as kinges to depriue them For if they bring to vs th'example of Salomon who deposed Abiathar the priest and placed Sadoc in his roume they shall heare of vs again that Samuel by gods own cōmaundemēt pronoūced Saul depriued of his king dome and settled Dauid in the same Phinees being a priest killed with his dagger the Israelite and the Madianite as they filthely abused thēselues and haue priestes therefore at this day thinck we like iurisdiction Or woulde god is it likely praise him for the doing that would nowe doe the like as he then did him No no good readers they treade not vprightely that so interprete the scriptures And thus yow see howe generally all these examples and auctorities being euen after this sort answered make no more for kinges to rule in matters of religion then other places doe for the cleargy to depose kinges or to kill them or other doing amisse But to descend nowe more particulerly to the seuerall examination of these examples I would gladly aske this question of some of these our newe Rabbines that being graunted to them by the way of reasoning which theie presuppose that is that king Dauid entremedled in th' affaires of religion how this argument holdeth not withstanding Dauid being bothe a king and a prophete had the rule of religion Therefore the kinges of our tyme must haue the like And in deede thus must they reason if they will reason trulie For so was king Dauid they can not all deny it And as well am I able to proue that if he had any such power it was because he was a prophe te and not in respect of his kingedome as they shall euer be to proue the contrary So that to make this reason of theirs haue yea seeme to haue some apparence of truthe of two thinges must they nedes doe one that is either proue our kinges nowe a daies prophetes also or Dauid in his daies to haue bene but a king simply In Salomon also is the case trowe ye all so cleare as they make it For touching the depriuation of Abiathar the priest to that I answer that as in breaking the wicked packe of Adonias Abiathar and other their complices who had conspired to haue put Salomon beside his kingdom he vsed the councell of Sadoc and Nathan to defeat them so vsed he their auctoritie and ministery to punishe them Nor it forceth not that the scripture saieth Eiecit ergo Salomon Abiathar vt non esset sacerdos domini therefore cast Salomon Abiathar out that he should no lenger be our lordes priest as though that therefore it wer his own deede and could be doen by no other seing that that is a phrase of speche common not in the scriptures onelie but in common talck also as if for example a man should say that Quene Mary whose soule god assoile depriued Thomas Cranmer of the archebishoprick of Cantorburie whose treason also ageinst her was no lesse then that of Abiathar ageinst Salomon he should not say a misse And yet was not she god wot the chief doer thereof but an instrument ioining with the pope in the execution of his determination touching the rooting out of that wicked membre So saie we in like manner that the prince hath made such a man bishop when in very dede he onely commended him by his
A PROVFE OF CERTEYNE ARTICLES IN RELIGION DENIED BY M. IVELL sett furth in defence of the Catholyke beleef therein by Thomas Dorman Bachiler of Diuinite VVHERE VNTO is added in the end a conclusion conteinyng .xij. Causes vvhereby the Author acknovvlegeth hym self to haue byn stayd in hys olde Catholyke fayth that he vvas baptized in vvysshyng the same to be made common to many for the lyke stay in these perilouse tymes Augustinus contra literas Petiliani lib. 2. cap. 16. Si quaeras quibus fructibus vos esse potius lupos rapaces cognoscamus obijcio schismatiâ— trimeâ— quod tu negabis ego autem statim probabo Nequé enim communicas omnibus gentibus illis ecclesijs Apostolico labore fundatis that is to say If thou demaundest he speaketh to Petilian the Heretick by vvhat fruictes I knovv you to be rather the rauening vvolues I obiect to you the fault of scisme vvhich thou vvilt deny but I vvil out of hand proue for thou doest not communicat vvith all Nacions nor vvith those churches founded by th'apostles labour Imprinted at Antwerp by Iohn Latius at the signe of the Rape with Priuilege Anno 1564. REgiae Maiestatis Priuilegio permissum est Thomae Dormanno sacrae Theologiae Baccalaureo vti per aliquem Typographorum admissorum impuneâ—e ei liceat imprimi curare per omnes suae ditionis Regiones distrahere Librum inscriptum A prouf of certeyn articles in religion denyed by M. Iuell omnibus alâ—s inhibitum ne eundem absque eiusdem Thomae consensu imprimant velalibi impressum distrahant sub poena in Priuilegio contenta Datum Bruxellae 14. Iul. Anno. 1564. Subsig Facuwez TO THE RYGHT VVORSHIPFVLL MASTER Thomas Hardyng Doctor of Diuinite Thomas Dorman Bachiler of the same sendeth gretyng and wyssheth health of bodye and soule IT prycketh now fast if my memory fayle me not ryght worshipfull sir towardes the poyncte of seuenteen yeares when I beyng a yong nouyce of Caluyns relygyon was fyrst by my frendes brought to that famouse schole at Wynchester of bishop VVyckham hys foundation At which tyme it pleased you of your goodnes beyng then one of them who had for that yeare the right and auctoritie in that behalf without monye without rewarde without commendation of frendes apon the onlye contemplacion and respect of my pooer and nedye estate and some lyttle hope perhapps conceiued hereof that once the tyme myght coÌ„me when I should not be alltogether vnprofytable eyther to my countrye that brought me forth eyther to the place that should nouryshe me vp to bestowe apon me beyng then a futer for that purpose your voyce or suffrage for th' obteinyng of a place emon gest the scholers there By the benefyte whereof I was the same yeare made one of that numbre brought home agayn to Chrystes churche from whence I was strayed and fynally haue obteyned that knowledge and small vn derstanding yfyet emongest the learned it may be accompted any to the which you now see me growen True ytis I can not denye yt that other helpes God hath sence that tyme prouyded for me to the furnyshyng and makyng perfect of that buyldyng the foundacion whereof by your handes he fyrst disposed to be layde To whome I mynde not nether to showe my self in tyme and place of so great benyfytes by them receaued eyther vnmyndfull or vnthanckfull In the meane season yf as next after God of that profytt which I haue taken in my studye what so euer yt be I accompt you for the author and verye founder thereof so I doe with the scripture askyng quis plantat vineam et de fructueius non comedit offer to you such as they ar the fyrst fruictes thereof for a taste and that apon the groundes of the law whych wyll that the most auncient debt be first discharges before all other none I trust of my other frendly cre dytours wyll be therewithall offended Thys hath byn ryght worshypfull sir the verye cause of my boldnesse in offeryng to you thys rude and symple treatyse of myne Wherein yf any offence on my part haue byn commytted impute it I praye you to the abundanâ—e of the great good will that I beare towardes you and the necessitie that I thought my self to stand in for the testifyeng of my mynd ready in some part to discharge as I was hable my dutye to you Fare you wel at Aquicinctum the seat of my banyshment your mastershyps to commaund Thom. Dorman TO THE READERS I Am not ignorant good Readers of the manyfold daungers wherinto what so euer he be he wyllyngly as yt wer casteth hym self who publysheth any thyng to the world in wrytyng The whych confy deration after that I had well weighed and deepely debated wyth my self of what mynde I was touchyng the sendyng abroade of thys lytle treatyfe of myne any man may easely iudge For I besydes those sawcy snaphaunces and murmuryng momi whome no mans doyngs can please but there owne which fortune I tooke to be common to me wyth many foresawe also my self not wythout good cause in apparence ready to fall in to the iust and lawfull reprehension euen of those whose iudgements I haue alwayes both loued and feared the wyser the learneder and the better sort also Whylest after so godly so graue so exact a worck most amply treatyng of the same matter I of all other moost vnfyt therefore should seeme to take pen in hand to wryte agayne This one cause appeared to me to be of such importance that I was euen fully resolued to stay my hand and trauell herein no farder When sodenly beholde emongest dyuerse other it camme to my mynde to thynck on the earnest desyre and godly greedy hunger of my pooer countrymen I meane not the Catholykes only but euen of those whome simplicitie not malice hath caused to stray whereof I was to my great comfort dayly enformed wyth what labour they fought for wyth what diligence they harckened after wyth what sauory appetyte they receaued in to ther myndes and as it wer deuoured such bookes as brought them any tydyngs of the truthe Whereapon I discoursed farder wyth my self that eâ—en as in a plague of famyn or dearthâ— he that hauyng in hys barnes no great stoare of corne but yet somme beyng once well mynded and charytably moued to employ part of that lytle which he had to the comfort and relyef of hys pooer hungrye neyghbours should in all mens iudgement doe verye â—uell yf afterward apon the liberall almoise of some welthyer man he should vtterly wythdrawe hys and because hys habylytie serueth hym not to gyue as muche gyue nothyng at all euen so me thought it fared wyth me who myndyng these two whole yeares past to conferre some part of that small prouysyon that allmyghty god hath bestowed on me to publyke coÌ„modytie could not now I perswaded my self suppresse and kepe in the same wythout the manyfest offendyng of hys holy spyryt who fyrst moued me
iudge indifferentlie to say as the Huguenotes and heretykes doe then to leane and rest apon the same groundes for the banishing of the head of Christes churches on which the Swenckfeldians doe for th'abolishing of the scripture For the one sayeth we must haue no scripture because god can teache vs without the other we must haue no head of Christes churche because he is the head him self and can rule vs without any other to be his vicair The one saieth the scriptures ar but dead lettres and no more accompte to be made of them then of other creatures the other saieth that the pope is but a sinfull man as other ar and that therefore there is no more accompte to be made of him then of other sinfull men Finally the Swenckfeldians bar god of all meanes to worck his will by and so doe the protestants while they alow him not a ministre to gouern hys churche in externall gouernement but tell him that he is of age and able to doe it him self and that therefore there is no remedie but he must needes comme downe and giue answere to all our wise demaundes in hys own person And thus whilest most shamefully to the greate dishonor of the whole realme vnder whose name as it wer that fardell of lies their apology was sent abroade they haue not byn ashamed to charge with this heresie of Suenckfeldius one of the greatest estates bothe for lerning and vertue that at this daye Christendom hath we may see that they haue not onely showed them selues to be very wicked and shameles men the truthe to their vtter and perpetuall infamy and shame had they any plainely to the contrary in the worcks of him whome they so selaundred bearing witnesse ageynst them but ar also runne into the same growndes whereon Swenckfilde builded his heresie their owne selues For gods sake good Chrystian readers for your owne soules sake and the loue that you beare thereto gyue eare to no such seditious voices how euer they be cloked wyth the name of Christ which the diuel then doeth most inculcat when he would driue vs sonest from him What other thing did their forefathers Châ—â— Dathan and Abyron in rebelling ageynst Moses and Aaron the ministres of almightie god what other persuasion vsed they to the people what other reason brought they to allure from their obedience to rebellion from quiet rest to seditious wandring without a head the flocke of god then the verie same that these miserable men 〈◊〉 our time doe Their apologie saieth that there nedeth here in the churche no head to gouerne it because Christ is alwaies wyth it And did not those wicked men in their rebellioÌ„ against Moses and Aaron vse the same reason when they tolde them to their face Sufficiat vobis quia omnis multitudo sanctorum est in ipsis est dominus let it suffice you that all the multitude is holy and they haue god present wyth them Cur eleuamini super populum domim and whie then take yow apoÌ„ your selues the rule ouer the people of our lord As who would saie hauing no neede of any other ruler god being with them But as almighty god was then emongest his people and vsed yet neuerthelesse the ministery of men so is Christ no dout our sauiour now present alwayes wyth hys churche and chief head and gouern or thereof and yet gouerneth he the same by man And as Chore Dathan and Abiron be gone before swalowed alyue by hell there to taste of those rewardes which for such rebelliouse wretches ar prepared so must our Chore and his compagnioÌ„s folow their trace onlesse by their repentaunce they molify and asswage the iust wrath of god But yet let vs good readers that nothing may remaine that might in any wise seeme to blemish this truthe goe one steppe farder For as yet will our aduersaries I know well saye that I neuer can where it grew For our case saye they is far otherwise then you take yt seyng that we vtterly denye not that Chryst worcketh by meanes but onely swarue from yow in that we take those instruments and meanes to be other then you doe For the scripture we say whych Christ hath left to vs is the true meane wherebi in all doutes and controuersies we maie sufficiently content and satisfy our selues This is that iudge whych can not deceaue this ys that touchestone that can not lye Thus say our aduersaries with whom in that that they appeale to the scriptures no man is offended yea we praise them therefore and doe the lyke our selues But in that that they hold the scripture to be of it self alone to ende and determin all controuersies rising apon the doutefull meaning of the lettre able and suffycyent therein we vtterly dyssent from them and as we thynck not without great cause For omitting here that almighty god commaunded in th' olde lawe as before you haue hard that his people the Iues in doutefull questions arising apoÌ„ the lawe should resort to the priestes and to him that was the chief iudge for the time to be resolued therein and bad them not for the tryall thereof whych sense wer most true to lay and confer one text with an other which without all dout had he knowen it to be the best and surest as it is the readyest and easiest way he would not haue let to haue doen experience also hath taught vs the contrary thereof For emongest so many as at all times haue disquieted the church what one heretike ar they able to recon ouerthrowen by the scryptures was Arrius vanquished by them Naye if yow brought to conuince him this text Pater ego vnum sumus my father and I ar one he would tell you again that the same Chryst that so sayd sayd also pater meus maior me ests my father is greater then I. what had yow theÌ„ wonne at his handes that would tell you that one place of scripture must expounde an other and that therefore your place must be expounded by his And if you would wade farder with him he would interprete your place as he did wyth the catholikes to be vnderstand of vnitie in will and not in substance and bring yow scripture toe although wrested from the true sense that should seeme well to proue his distinction As when our sauiour praied vnto his father in this sorte Pater sancte serua eos in nomine tuo quos dedisti mihi vt sint vnum sicut nos kepe them â holy father in thy name whom thow hast giuen to me that they may be one as we two at one In th' exposition and right vnderstanding of these fewe wordes Hoc est corpus meum this is my body how happeneth it that the Caluinistes and the Lutheranes agre not by conferring one place of scripture wyth an other yf that be so ready a waie Doeth not Caluyn wyth all hys teache vs that the sense and true interpretation
forsoth he could he saide finde no roume for him there and therefore of his charitie 〈◊〉 that if any good fellow emongest his audieâ—ce wer weâ—rie of his roume he might be placed the re as verilie â— both thinck and knowe there wer manie that wished bothe them selues away and him in Bedlem emongest his compagnions neuer to come more in pulpit especiallie in that place to dishonor the vniuersitie his mother from whence he cam by such vnreasonable not reasoning but rayling although he I say could finde there no place for the pope he might yet haue wyth his yong sight founde at the least that which Iohn Caluin could before with his old and dimme eies espie out that is that the chiefest place of gouernement in Christes churche belonged to the apostles and so to the bishops and priestes their successors Except his braine would serue him to say that Christes churche died with his apostles But if a man should aske this great clercke that hath so narowely scanned the texte what roome he found there for Kinges I maruâ—ll what his wisdome would answer There is but one word in all the texte that should seeme to make place for any temporaâ—l magistrate and that hath Caluin watred with such a glose that it can in no wise serue his purpose The worde is gubernationes gouernements placed beside so far from the chiefest and first place if it wer to be vnderstand of temporal magistrates that it occupieth the seuenth But Caluin saieth it may not so be vnderstand but that the apostle ment by that word such spirituall men as wer ioined to the preachers for the better ordre in spirituall gouernement And he addeth a reason why it may not be vnderstande of ciuile magistrates because saith he there wer at that time none of them christians By which wordes this mery man maie see that if he will nedes daunce after his maister Caluin his pipe he muste saie that there is not not onelie no roume in this place for ciuile magistrates but that he is excluded alâ—o from the hope of finding for them anie I meane in the gouernement in ecclesiasticall causes in any other place of the newe testament But not in this place onely was S. Paule of that minde that priestes should gouern the churche of christ but in that notable sermon of his also that he made to the priestes of Ephesus at his departure from thence where he giueth them this exhortation Attendite vobis vniuerso gregi in quo vos spiritus sanctus posuit episcopos regere ecclesiam dei Looke saith he to your selues and to your flock in the which the holie ghost hath placed yow to rule and gouern the church of god Can there be any plainer euidence then is this Let them therefore eyther rule as S. Paule saith they ar appointed thereto and that by the holie ghost or if princes must let vs deny sainct Paule his auctoritie and say that the spirite failed him for surelie bothe maie not And thus for the scriptures good readers ye see to whom of right that parte of ecclesiasticall gouernement which standeth in the alowing and condemning of doctrine dothe apperteine For that doe the auctorites by me out of the old testament alleaged expressely proue as also doe those brought out of the newe by a necessarie consequence in that they giue to them the whole gouernement and chief souereintie of which this is as is before saide a parte The nexte membre of spirituall gouernement is thepower as Christ him self calleth it of binding and loosing Which power to excomunicate and to absolue our sauiour gaue to his apostles when he saied to them what so euer yow binde in earth shalbe bound in heaueÌ„ and what so euer yow loose on the earthe shall be loosed in heauen Wherein and in the last which is to preache and ministre the sacramentes because thiese peuish proctours pretend not as yet any greate title for princes but seeme rather to ground their action in the first I will leauing them bothe as either by the scriptures in all mennes iudgements sufficiently defended or by our aduersaries them selues not assaulted examine of what minde touching this controuersie the holy doctours of Christes churche from time to time haue byn Not as though maÌ„nes word should haue with vs more auctoritie then goddes or that it nedeth to be boulstred vp there with but for this causeonelie that if it happen theÌ„ to wrangle as their manner is about the true interpretacion thereof all men may perceiue that we giue no other then the fathers of christes churche before vs haue giuen And here to begin with Ignatius that holy martir who for the faithe of Christ was with the teethe of wild beastes torn and as he writeth him selfe sawe our sauiour in fleshe coÌ„sidre I beseche yow in the prescribing of such ordre for obedience in Christes churche as wherebie vnitie might be preserued what place of preeminence he giueth to Emperours who ar of the laietie the greatest estates and what to bishops his wordes ar thiese Principes obedite Caesari milites principibus diaconi praesbiteris sacrorum prefectis praesbiteri diaconi reliquus clerus vnâ cum omni populo militibus principibus Caesa re episcopo episcopus Christo sicut Christus patri vt ita vnitas per omnia seruetur Princes saith he obey your emperour souldiors your princes deacons the priestes which haue the charge of religion priestes deacons all the rest of the cleargie with the people what so euer they ar souldiors princes yea the emperor him self be yow obedient to your bishop the bishop to Christ as Christ is obedient to his father that so vnitie maie in all poinctes be obserued Here may we see good readers that euen in the daies of this holie martir Ignatiâ—s it was then thought necessary and expedient that for the better obseruing of vnitie the emperour him self should obey the bishop well I wot our aduersaries will not restreine this obeâ—ience to temporall gouernement and therefore it must nedes be vnderstand of spirituall and in causes ecclesiasticall But if th'obseruing of this obedience be the way to conserue vnitie what shall we alas thinck of them that laboure to violat and breake the same as doe all they that trauail to make princes in matters of religion to rule and bishoppes to obeye The same worthy bishop and constant martâ— Ignatius writing in an other place ad Smirnenses biddeth he them not to honor first god next the bishop as bering his image and then after the king Policarpus disciple to saincte Iohn theuangelist of priestes and deacons writeth thus Subiecti estote praesbiteris diaconis sicut deo Christo. Be ye subiect to the priestes and deacons as to god and Christ. Is this any other to say then as thapostle said before him Obedite ijs qui vigilant pro animabus vestris Obey yow them which kepe the watche
and theÌ„ beleue And except you may see fleshe and bloud is it iuggling what yow meane herebie I knowe not of this suer I am that greate blasphemie it is so to terme thâ— miraculouse worâ—king of almightie god besides the horrible presumption to apointe god in what sorte he shall doe his miracles and last of all extreme folly to saie that he rather iuggleth that turning the substance of one thing in to another leaueth yeat vnchanged the olde for me which no iuggler is able to doe then he that altereth the fourme although he can not the substance which dailie experience telleth vs that euerie iuggler to our sight doeth So that almightie goddes worcking is moste vnlike to iugglers iuggling and rather might yow haue saide that Moses wand was aiuggling sticke for that that commonlie iugglers seme to doe as Moses did then that in this high misterie consisting all in faithe anie such false dealing should take place Yow that call this iuggling so far vnlike theretoe if Christe I feare me had turned in this sacrament in dede the accidentes and outewarde forme which euery Iuggler promiseth and semeth to doe in his trickes your false faithe is such that yowe woulde not haue letten to haue called that plaine iuggling besides other pretie termes that yowe kepe in store But leauing yow to your trickes of liegier de main wherein considering your excellencie we will in no wise contende with yow but wisshing yow yeat like a frinde to make some more store thereof and quietly hereafter to kepe them in your iugglers boxe till yowe meete with such companie as whose eyes yowe maie be able easelier to dymme tell me I praie yowe familierlie whether for all your greate bragges yowe mistrusted not the omnipotencie of god when yowe made this weake reason that it was not his will to haue his bodie present in the sacrament because in all the scripture beside yow reade of no such miracle that one thinge was changed into an other reteining still the qualities of the first Is not trowe yow god in good credite with you of whose miracles you beleue no one till he haue doeÌ„ two what neded yow to haue asked this question where he did the like before had yow not douted of his habilitie Is this Abrahams faithe is this Isaac his is this Dauid his that yoweboast your selfe to haue what scripture haue yow where anie of them did this Did our blessed ladie wheÌ„ she had receiued that strange message that she being a moste pure and immaculate virgin should conceiue and bring furth a childe desire first to see it done in an other And yeat emongest all the miracles that euer wer doen before or sence was there euer anie so strange Ar theie now blinde or maliciouse that charge yow with mistrust in goddes power Haue theie not righte good cause to saie that yow see no farder then Ismael and Agar that confesse yourselfe not to beleue this miracle because Christ neuer did the like before Your last reason is of all other moste vnreasonable and maketh me to thincke that sence the time that I last spake with yowe there is some mischaunce happended vnto yow that hath sore broosed your heade and let our your witte For who I praie yow hath made yow at anie time a councelor to god that so presumptuouslie yowe dare affirme that there was no necessitie whie Christe should worke such a miracle as to giue vs his bodie reallie and carnallie in a sacrament to be eaten Is this all the thanâ—kes that yow giue him for so greate a benefite and pretiouse a iewell that he might haue chosen being at libertie not constreined by necessitie whether he would haue doen it or no Trulie these reasons so 〈◊〉 and weake haue betraied yow and giueÌ„ vs to vndâ—rstand that the chiefe staie why yow beleue not this truthe is euen that which yow would so gladlie kepe from our knowledge that is to wit lacke and defect of power which yow persuade your selfe to be in god to the perfourmance of so greate a miracle And euen as the heretikes Basilides Cerdo and Marcion because theie could not atteine to the vnderstanding how a virgin might bring furth toke the occasion of their heresies to saye that Christ toke no fleshe of the virgin Marie and therefore suffred not in a true but in a fantasticall bodie so fareth it with yow and your companie who because yow can not see howe Christes bodie maie be in the sacrameÌ„t reallie present and in manie places at onee falle flat to the deniall thereof and bring it to a simple figure or fantasticall vnderstanding Now let vs returne againe to S. Ambrose from whome your peuish proctour M. Iuell hath made me somwhat to straie The same holie bishoppe hath touching this matter in an other place these wordes Sicut verus est dei filius D. noster Iesus Christus noÌ„ quemadmodum homines per gratiam sed quasi filius ex substaâ—â—ia patris ita vera caro sicut ipse dixit quam accipimus verus est potus c. Euen as our lorde Iesus Christ is the true sonne of god and not as men ar by grace but as his sonne of the substance of his father so is it true fleshe and true drincke which we receaue as he him selfe hath witnessed But thow wilt peraduenture obiect as euen Christes owne disciples did at that time when theie harde their maister saie Excepte ye eate the fleshe of the sonne of man c how is it true fleshe I whiche see the similitude of bloud see not true bloud in deede First of all I tolde the of Christes worde which is in operation so mighty that it can change and alter yea the common and accustomed ordonances of nature Afterwarde when the disciples could not abide this communication of their maisters theie departed But onelie Peter saide Thow hast the wordes of life euerlasting Least therefore more might saie thus as though there should be a certeine horror and fearefulnes of bloud but yet the grace of redemption should remaine therefore trulie thow receiuest this sacrament in a similitude or likenes but so that thowe receiuest also the grace and force of his true nature Hetherto S. Ambrose in whose wordes two thinges there ar especiallie to be noted first that of the true presence of Christes bodie in the sacrament he toke him selfe to be so suer that euen as certeine a truthe as it is that Christe was the true sonne of god not by grace onelie or adoptioÌ„ so certeinlie and trulie he toke his bodie to be present in the sacrameÌ„t not by grace or spirituallie alone but truelie and reallie The seconde poincte that is diligentlie to be obserued is whie Christe contrarie to his accustomed maner of worcking in his miracles changeth not here in this sacrament the outewarde shape and forme but onelie the inward nature and substance which is as this holie doctour saithe for oure
by expounding his plaine wordes by a figure vnder colour of some other places where such allegories must nedes haue place and wer no otherwise to be taken so did they take from Christes blessed parson his omnipotent godhead and would not graunte him to be equall with almightie god his father but the plaine textes of scripture which proued his godhead they expounded wrong and frowardlie not onelie by some other textes that semed to saie otherwise but also as this man doeth now by some allegories affirming that he was called god and the sonne of god in the scripture by such maÌ„ner of speaking as the scripture for some propertie calleth certeine other personnes goddes and gods sonnes in other places as where god saide to Moses I shall make the Pharao his god and in an other place Thowe shalt not backbite or sclaunder thy goddes And where he hath I haue saide that yowe be goddes and the sonnes of the highe god all of yowe But surelie if this maÌ„ner of reasoning maie be allowed for good that because of allegories vsed in some places euerie man maie at his pleasure drawe euerie place to a figure we shall shortlie bring the scripture from a faire flat figure I feare me to a sorie simple cypher Yea saith he if we had not these examples with a greate nombre mo in the holie scripture to iustifie our manner of interpretation yeat the verie wordes which the spirite of god by singulier prouidence hath vsed in the Euangelist and S. Paule doe leade vs vnto this sence rather then vnto that that yow haue deuised For in the second parte of the sacrament whereas Mathewe and Marc saie This is my blood of the newe testament that Luke and Paule vtter in this maÌ„ner This is the newe testament in my blood Which can not be otherwise vnderstand but that the sacrament is a testimonie or pledge of his last will and gift of our saluation confirmed by his moste pretiouse blood Wherefore if yow saie neuer so often times with Mathew and Marc This is my bodie This is my blood We will repete as often with Luke and Paule who wer ledde with the same spirite This is the newe testameÌ„t in my bodie and blood Hetherto haue reached the wordes of your frende M. Iuell Who if he repete neuer so often the wordes of Luke and Paule shall spende but his winde in wast and gaine when all is doeÌ„ not so much as one ynche towardes the furderance of his and your heresie in this pointe For if he repete their sainges trulie theie varie in wordes from the other two but in the second parte of the sacrament and saie but onelie This is the newe testament in my blood â–ª and then can he noâ— wot ye well as here he falselie doth repete which theie neuer saide This is the newe testament in my bodie and blood and so adde to the holie scripture the worde â—odie And then the case standing thus that all fower agree in the first parte of this sacrament and call it Christes bodie and two in the later calling it his bloud and all so far as no one denieth it to be his blood a man maie aske of your frende whie he should rather sucke out a figure in those wordes of the first parte which all fower agree apon onelie because in the second parte two doe speake figuratiuelie then so to interprete that figuratiue speche of those two vsed in the cup as to giue place to the literall sense by two in the second parte and all in the first so firmelie and by so full consent agreed and arrested apon But of this he as it semeth him selfe being notignorant if the matter should be by him left thus rawe that there is no man so euell aduised but he had rather vnder stand two by fower then so manie by two he laboureth merueilouslie to proue that the olde writers haue so vnderstande those wordes of Christe as he dothe To be shorte we denie not nor euer did that the olde fathers haue some times apon considerations called this sacrament a figure a signe a similitude an example but neuer in that sense we saie to take awaie the veritie of his blessed bodie therein For as it wer but a homelie pece of logick to saie that Christe wer no true man because S. Paule saith that he was made in similitudinem hominuÌ„ after the likenesse of men as by occasion of that text and other Marcion and Appolinaris the heretikes did as witnesse Tertullian and S. Ambrose or to reason that he wer not of the same substance with god his father and very god him selfe with Arrius and his mates because the same S. Paule calleth him the image of god and figure of his fathers subtance so truly to reason in the sacrament that because it is called a figure a similitude a representation that therefore it is not his true body is an argumeÌ„t most false and faulty And all were it so that we had not these places of the scripture and the fathers maÌ„ner of speaking and manie other which plainelie teache vs that the selfe same thing maie be a figure of it selfe as the bodie of Christe in the sacrameÌ„t inuisiblie offred on the altar is a figure of the same visiblie offred on the crosse yet of fine force excepte we woulde discredite a greate parte of the auncient writers as though they had written contrarie to them selues should we haue bene driuen to haue founde out this answer Seing of them all that call it in one place a figure it will be harde to bring furth anie that calleth it not in diuerse other the veritie and thing it selfe As for his similitude fetched froÌ„ the courte well maie it be fine and he please him selfe therewith but other men I suppose such as haue more learned then deintie eares he should haue pleased a greate deale better if although in sluttishe eloquence yet plainelie and trulie he had vttred better sense For I for my parte and therein I thinck I maie be bolde to measure other by my selfe had rather drincke a cup of holsom beere in a sluttishe cup then a draught of poisoned wine in a fine golden goblet But I praie yow for yow I am suer knowe him when yow happen apon him nexte aske of him how he is able to proue the like change in the parchement of his lettres patentes as hath bene proued to be in the breade and wine in the sacrament It hath bene showed oute of the holie martir S. Ciprian that this breade is changed not in the outewarde shape but in the inwarde nature that by that change it is made fleshe It hath bene proued by Eusebius Emissenus and holy S. Ambrose that before the wordes of consecration there is the substance of bread and wine but after those wordes the bodie and blood of Christe The same hath bene sufficientlie proued by diuerse other Let him now if he can finde
doctrine in one churche in one head thereof god almighty and his ministre vnder him appointed ouer the same we liued then and other in other places doe nowe But to procede For the estate of the Iues god by his seruant moses did so prouide to take away schismes that apoÌ„ the doutefull wordes of the lawe might arise that he appointed them a place to resort unto and aiudge to flee vnto in all such ambiguites and doutes For so is it written in the booke of Deuteronomium And shall we not by good reason thinck that he hath prouided as well for his churche except we will say that he hath byn lesse carefull of it then he was of that Which must necessaryly folow if he prouyded for them one chief iudge to haue recourse vnto in hard and doutefull questions and to vs hauing no lesse yea farr much more neede then they he left ether at all none or many to make the matter more doutefull For I remeÌ„bre a sayeng of Gregorius Nazianzenâ—s Vbi nullum est imperium nullus ordo vbi multoruÌ„ ibi seditio vt sic nullum imperium nullus ordo existat Vtrumque â—nimeódem absurditatis perducit Where is none to rule there is no ordre Where manie rule there is sedition so that after that manner of gouernemeÌ„t also there ys no gouernement there is no ordre for bothe to haue none to rule and to haue many leade vs to lyke inconuenience How shall we then say Diligiâ— dominus Syon super omniâ— tabernacula Iacob Our lord loueth Syon aboue all the tabernacles of Iacob There is no dout therefore but that Christ hath prouided for his churche which he redemed so dearely as wyth thexpence of his own most preciouse bloud a iudge and chief ruler to end and determine so many controuersies as he knewe should molâ—st and infest the same They can not say that aâ— aduersaries and kyck ageinst this truthe that thys which I alleage was in the old lawe and in a shadowe that these daiâ—s and this tyme requier other manners For that argument hath ther english apologie soluted and pronounced that so to saie wer plusquaâ— ridiculum seing there was then idem deus idem spiritus idem Christus eadem fides eadem doctrina eadem spes eadem â—aerâ—ditas idem fâ—edus â–ª eadem vis verbi dei the same god the same holie gost the same Christ the same faithe the same doctrine the same hope the same heritage the same couenaunt the same strenght of gods worde But yet this I protest that apon the auctoritie of ther apologie which with me is in that coÌ„ceit that it is with all honest and learned men that is to say taken as in deede it is for a fardle of lies I am no whytt the bolder to reason thus But because I haue perceiued that god in that people in ther lawe and priesthood shadowed out vnto vs like a cunnyng worckeman the whole forme and proportion of his churche as witnesseth S. Paule Lex vmbram habet futurorâ—m bonorum non ipsam imaginem rerum The lawe conteineth a shadowe of the good thinges to come but expresseth not manifestlie the truthe of things therefore I thought I might well reason from the shadow to the body froÌ„ the resemblaunce and image to the truthe thereto answering From the whych kinde of reasoning S. Paule sometimes absteined not as when he laboured to proue that the lawe of the gospel would beare that they whych preached the gospell should liuâ— thereby he reasoned after this sort Nunquid secunduÌ„ hoiÌ„em haec dico Speake I this as a maÌ„ that is to say proue I this by wordly reasons An lex haec noÌ„ dicit Sayth not the lawe so toe and so goeth he forward and proueth yt by this text of the old lawe Thow shalt not moosell or binde vp the mouthe of the labouring Oxe as though he should haue saide it was so in the shadow therefore yt must be so in the body and in the truth signified by that shadow Thus ye see good readers that I maâ—e say wyth S. Paule haue I proued onely by reasons fetched from the doings of men by examples of all common welthes and societes well goâ—erned that in Christes coÌ„mon weale there must be also one to rule haue I affirmed this because S. Cyprian S. Hierom blessed and holy Leo so said Who yet were while they liued here but men although now sayntes in heauen Nunquid non Lex haec dâ—â—it sayth not the lawe so toe But here I knowe our aduersaries will say that these proofes neded not to proue that Châ—istes church must haue a head and a iudge to ordre and determine doutefull questions whych happen â—mongest vs and where of the world is now so full For that will they say they know as well as Cyprian Hierom Leo or any of them all although they will not admit the same iudge or the same head that they doe But what head thinck you good readers appoynt they to gouern christes churche here in earthe what iudge to determine controuersies Forsooth the head of the churche theie saie wherein we finde no faulte but saye the same our selues is Iesus Christ and the iudge of all controuersies arisinge therein they call the scriptures Here suffer me a littell I beseche you to shake these mâ—â—â—kers owâ—e of there cloutes and to make open to the â—orld ther great dissimulation and sottelty whereby vnder the name of Christ and his most holy word so glittring at the first showe in the eyes of the simple yea perhappes of some of the wiser sorte also that it is to be feared lest yt strike them blinde alltogether they seme to haue purchased to them selues a double benefite at once fyrst greate credit by pretâ—nding and vsing nay rather abusing the name of Christ and his word next great securite both for ther owne pâ—â—sones and also for all such dyuelish doctrine as they or any other heretikes lyst to vtter Whilest on thone side they take them selues to be out of all check of man and maie be controlled of none as thei saye but of god onely who if he let them alone till that time that they thinck he will then bid thei vs let them shift for them selues theie shall haue time enough in the meane season to preache and teache wythout controllment what they lift and on the other syde whilest by prouoking to the scriptures as ther iudge they thâ—nk them selues to stand apoâ— a suer grounde seing they ar already wyth theâ— selues at a poinct to receiue no other interpretaty on thereof then shal make for ther purpose and they also see that emongest so many heresies as haue hetherto troubled the churche of god there was neuer yet any one so horrible and absurd that the author thereof hath not by this meanes in his owne indgement byn right wel able to sustein and defend But of this I will entreate more largely
hereafter In the meane season that theie will haue of Christes church here in earthe no other head but Christ him self therein they fare me thincketh not much vnlike to a certein â—elon of whome I haue harde that being areigued 〈◊〉 â—he bar for a felonie when he had pleadid to the 〈◊〉 not guilty and was after the manner demaunded how he would be tried he would suspecting his own case and knowing that if he satisfied the law in putting him self apon the tryall of the country there wer no moe waies with him but one make thereto no other answer but onely that he would put him self apon god the righteous iudge of all who although he saide truely that god was the chief iudge of all as the protestants doe in calling Christ the head of the churche yet was there in his case an other iudge here in this worlde vnder god by whom he must haue byn tried as there is in theirs an other head here in the churche to ordre them and kepe them vnder and in whom Christ the chief head of all vseth in all necessary knowledge to giue answer And as the felon knewe well that there was an other iudge beside god and appealed not to him as though before him he should haue ben acquitted and proued not guilty but onelie to gaine a longer time of life and libertie so doe I dout not our aduersaries the protestants And trulie to both thiese kynde of men being bothe theeues th'one sort doing violence to the body the other to the soule if such pleas might be allowed howe so euer they be coloured with the name of Christ betwene them both they would freelie robbe the body and murther the soule But let vs now examine this reason of theirs whereof they ar wont so much to triumphe Christ is head of the church Ergo the pope is not Ergo it câ—a haue no other head That Christ is the head of the church we graunted before and none of our syde did euer yet deny yt But as it is most manifest that Christ him self is the worcker of all his sacraments for he baptizeth he forgiueth sinnes he consecrateth his blessed body and bloud he ioineth together in matrimony the man and his wife and yet forasmuch as he should nedes departe out of this worlde and could not alwaies dwell with vs after a corporall manner he hath chosen ministres to dispense those his giftes by And we saye and no fault found therewith that the priest his ministre baptizeth that he forgiueth sinnes that he consecrateâ—h his most preâ—ious body and bloud So after the same manner and for the same cause that is to say because he could not be alwayes present with vs in such sort as we might see him and speake with him face to face to be resolued at his mouth of such doubtes and questions as should arâ—se emongest vs he left vs also one that in that his absence should gouern and rule his whole churche He remaineth neuerthelesse head thereof he ruleth he reigneth he exerciseth his power and authorite in the same but yet by man his ministre whome for that cause most aptly the Scholasticall writers haue termed caâ—â—â— minâ—â—â—eriale that is to saye a head but yeat by the reason of his seruice and ministerie vnder an other that is Christ â—ho is onelie absolutely simply and without all relation to any other the head thereof Not as though he wer not hable to rule the same without any such help or instrument which he could haue doen also in the olde lawe where his pleasure was that the people should resort to the chief priest to be resolued in all doutes arising apon the lawe and had no more nede of help then then he hath now but for that this waye it hath pleased hym to 〈◊〉 his exâ—eding great loue towards mankind 〈…〉 of emongest men such as he will execute 〈…〉 worlde 〈◊〉 as he will vse as his mouth to 〈◊〉 the secretes of his holâ—e pleasure to vs and fâ—â—ally such as should represent to vs his owne parson Because Châ—â—stâ—s king of all kinges and lord of all lordâ—â— because if it so pleased him he could rule all this worlde much better then it is ruled without the help of any other whereof he hath his absolute power considered no nedeâ— shall we therefore say that there be not nor nede to be any kynges here in â—â—â—the When S. Paule called the man the head of the woman denied he therefore Christ to be her head Kinge Saul when he was called by the prophet Samuel caput in tribubus Israël the head of the tribues of Israel was god thinck you excluded that he should not be their head To vse examples more familier th'archebishop of Cauntorbury is the head of the bishoprick and diocesse of London as he is of all the bishoprickes within his prouince and yet can not a man infer apon this that therefore the B. of London is not the head of that his diocesse But Christ hath no suche nede our aduersaries crye still to haue any man to be in his stede to succede him in the whole enheritance Nam Christum semper adesse eccle siae suae vicario homine qui ex asse in integrum â—uccedat non â—gere these be their very wordes in their apologie Here would I like a frinde aduertise them that for ther pooer honesties sake they harp not to much on this string left by their so doing they comme as nere to the heresie of Suenkfeldius as he whom in their apologie they falselie sclaunder therewith is far bothe from that and all other For Suenkfeldius emongest other his abhominable heresies hath also this in my opinioÌ„ the chiefest that we ought to banish vtterly from emongest vs all scripture and as Hosius writeth of him thys heresie of hys to derogate from the scriptures all auctoritie he went also about to proue bi scripture But howe I praie you good readers By what reason thinck you would he haue proued this diuelish and most absurde doctrine Beleue me or rather your owne iudgements seing and perceiuing most plainely that I lie not by the self same reasons that our aduersareis doe vse to proue that Christes churche here in earth can haue vnder him no head or chief gouernour to gouern the same Thow must not be parfect in the scriptures saith this stincking heretike Swenckfield But whie because forsooth we must be taught at gods mouth because his worde teacheth truly the scripture is not his worde but dead lettres and no more accompte to be made of them then of other creatures emongest the which they ar to be reconed We must loke to be taught froÌ„ heauen not out of bookes The holie ghost vseth to coÌ„me froÌ„ aboue without the help of meanes as hearing preaching or reading the scriptures Thieâ—e be that wicked heretike his folish and vnsauery persuasions And what other thing is it I praie you good readers
that he worshiped not him but god whose ministre he was By this which hetherto good Readers yowe haue hard forasmoch as it appeareth that our aduersaries staÌ„d alltogether destitute and as it wer naked of such prouision out of the scriptures as with the vaine title whereof they persuaded them selues their part to be well boulstred and them selues ageinst all that would mainteine the contrary sufficiently furnished it remaineth nowe that I first bring furth to yowe such examples as hauing happened in Christes churche sence his departure hence and his apostles they alleage for them selues then after â—hat I refell the same and proue that they make as little or lesse for their purpose as doe the other before brought furth of the scriptures And first for Constantinus the greate although by consent of all historiographers it be well knowen and most apparent as before hath byn showed howe farre he was of all other from that vnlaufull desier of entremeddling in matters of religion yeat for asmuch as the impudency of thiese men is such that they ar not ashamed to abuse his name emongest other for the maintenaunce of their opinion and that they labour to make him a piller to susteine and hold vp their rotten building alleaging his calling together of the councel of Nice his sitting there presently with the bishoppes and fathers his admonisshing them how to procede that is according to the doctrine of the prophetes and apostles I will first answer thereunto and after procede to the rest Constantinus the truthe is called together to the rooting out and vtter extirpation of the heresie of Arrius that greate and famouse councell of Nice as after him did diuerse other good emperours diuerse other But neither of this acte of his or that of theirs can any man rightely gather that either the one or the other had ouer matters of religion anie thing thereby the more auctoritie But euen as the handes or armes reaching a thing far of ar when it is brought nearer to sight nothing therebie the more authorised to iudge of the value and goodnes thereof to dispose howe it shalbe ordered but that remaineth still in the head by whose councell and commaundement the handes and armes reached it thither euen so in this case maie it be saide In Christes churche there is and as it hath bene before proued necessarily must be one head As there is a head so is there a bodie armes legges and other membres answering to the same EmoÌ„gest the which princes and kinges haue of our elders not amisse bene termed the handes and armes to aide and succour the head If nowe the bishoppes of Rome for the time being for theie ar vnder Christ the true heades of this churche as hereafter by goddes grace I shall make it moste manifestly appeare haue emongest so many enemies and backe friendes as Christ and his gospel had bene glad to bid the handes doe their dutie to call to the emperours and kinges for help which had so long hindred if by this meanes they compelled them to comme in for feare of the temporall sword who feared not the spirituall if theie vsed this rigorouse meanes where lenitie could haue no place who is so voide of wit to thincke that princes had thereby auctoritie ouer religion Naie but Constantinus saieth our apologie did not onelie call together the councell of Nice but he sat in the same with the bishoppes nor sat there barely as a cipher but warned them how to procede by the scriptures Here marcke diligently I beseche yowe good readers either the manifest malice of them that wittingly mangle the holie histories or intollerable folishenes which alleage that that theie neuer them selues sawe but onelie haue by reporte of others or last of all their grosse ignorance that thinck they haue to doe with them who without anie farder searching of such places as ar by theÌ„ alleaged will streight waies giue full credit to their bare honesties Eusebius who writeth the historie of Constantinus and whole discours of his life witnesseth that comming into the councell last of all hauing prepared ready for him a seate lower then any of the rest he would not before sit downe in the same then first he had asked of the bishoppes and they graunted him licence so to doe The very same doeth Socrates report of him and euen he out of whome the apology alleageth this example Theodoretus him self whose wordes ar these Minore verò sede quám alijs posita in medio eorum sedit primò tamen petens sibi hoc episcoporuÌ„ iussione concedi And hauing that is to say appoincted for him a place or feate meaner then any of the other he sat him down in the middest of them desiring yet first that by the commaundement of the bisshoppes it might be grauâ—ted him so to doe If this be true as if the histories and olde recordes doe not witnes the same then let me neuer be farder beleuid what meaneth then this lieng generation to bring in for example to susteine and vphold their wicked doctrine this vertuouse emperour Constantinus then whome if they would haue laied all their heades together for that purpose they should neuer haue founde one whose doings and whole life had madeâ— more for vs or more ageinst them If he wer chief of the councell and ruled all as theie say why had he in that place where by all likelihood there lacked nothing that perteined to semelie ordre a seate lesse statelie then hiâ— inferiours Places ar I knowe of their owne nature thinges indifferent and of no greate account yeat haue theie at all times in all ages and emongest all men bene taken for meanes to distinct according to their worthines in degre one from an other So that it can be to no man doubtefull but that if of the councell gathered and assembled together he had byn the head and chief there should haue byn prepared for him if not a seate such as might by the maiestie aboue the rest well haue declared the same yet at the least such a one as should not by the basenes thereof compared with thother well and plainely haue proued the contrary If the whole some and ordre of religion belonged to him being th'emperour Why then in that place whither they wer all for that purpose to entreate of religioÌ„ assembled had the head of that parle no place but by licence why asked he leaue of the bishoppes to sit in the councell and not rather they of him Yea but he warned the bishoppes how they should procede in the councell that is by the doctrine of the prophetes and apostles If they would here haue delt truly and vprightely with vs and not rather haue folowed their father in lieng and patching they would not haue rehersed Gloria patri without Sicut erat nor taken a piece that seemeth to make for them leauing out that which maketh ageinst them But because they ar sworn to be true to their
apon D. Coles wor des in the margeÌ„t of your boke that no B. of Rome before S. Gregories time would euer be called vniuersall biâ—shop finallie then would yowe not so ignorantlie haue confounded together these termes vniuersall bishop and heade of the churche as though theie had in that place signified all one thing The which that theie doe not no maÌ„ doeth more plainelie expresse then S. Gregorie him selfe who writeth of S. Peter after this maÌ„ner The charge saith he and supremacie of all the whole churche was committed to him and yeat was he not called vniuersall apostle Lo M. Iâ—ell if you had taken the paines to haue scanned the place of S. Gregorie alleaged by yow by this and such other would yow euer haue brought in to the lighte this deade mouse this false argument and vntrue consequent There was neuer anie B. of Rome called or that would be called by the name of vniuersall bishop therefore â–ª theie be not or ought not to be heades of the churche Seing that S. Peter as saithe S. Gregorie had the charge of the whole churche although he wer neuer called by the name of vniuersall apostle If S. Peter might be heade of the churche and without anie absurditie haue the charge thereof as S. Gregorie thought although he wer not called vniuersall apostle whie should yow thicke it now anie more impossible for the pope to be called head of the churche although he be not called vniuersall bishoppe And so haue yowe by the waie an answer to your wise demaunde also that is if no B. of Rome would euer take apon him to be called th'vniuersall bishoppe or heade of the whole churche for the space of six hundred yeares after Christe where then was the heade of the vniuersall churche all that while or howe it coulde then continue without a heade more theÌ„ nowe For we saie vnto yow that that is moste false and vntrue which yowe lay for a grounded truthe that is that no B. of Rome woulde euer be called by the name of heade of the churche within the first six hundred yeares after Christe as hath bene sufficientlie proued before and that also as we haue declared yowe abuse your selfe in the framing of your saide questioÌ„ in taking for all one the heade of the churche and the vniuersall bishoppe And thus haue yow one cause whie this place of S. Gregorie maketh nothing ageinst the supremacie of the B. of Rome And other cause is for that that Iohn the B. of Constantinople by this name or title of vniuersall bishoppe vnderstoode him selfe onelie to be a bishoppe and none elles Which meaning neither in the first six hundred yeares nor at anie time sence anie B. of Rome that I could yeat heare of euer had And that this is the true meaning of S. Gregorie and not forced by me the verie wordes of the same man written to Iohn archebishop of Constantinople doe well witnesse with me Qui enim indignum te esse fatebaris vt episcopus dici debuisses ad hoc quandoque perductusâ— es â–ª vt despectis fratribus episcopus appetas solus vocari that is to saie for thow Iohn B. of Constantinople which once grauntedst thy selfe to be vnworthie the name of a bishoppe art nowe at the length comme to that passe that thowe labourest to be called a bishop alone And a little after Thow goest about saieth he to take awaie that honour from all other which by singularitie thow desirest vnlaufullie to vsurpe to thy selfe Thus maie yowe see M. Iuell howe this place being by th'author him selfe expounded fardereth yow nothing at all and also by suche auctorities and reasons as haue for our parâ—e bene before alleaged vnderstand howe vnaduisedlie it was saide of yowe that the catholikes as sure as god is god if theie would haue vouchesaufed to folowe either the scriptures either the auncieÌ„t Doctours and couÌ„cels would neuer haue restored again the supremacie of the B. of Rome after it was once abolished Doe yow not hereby giue occasioÌ„ to meÌ„ to thinke that your lacke of faithe and mistrust in goddes omnipotency in other thinges groweth euen thereof that yow thincke god is not god For towching the supremacie hauing in the scriptures nothing in the councels as little in the fathers writinges onelie thiese fewe wordes that might se me to impugne the same and yet doe not howe will yow be able to discharge so manie auctorities of the fathers such consent of councels such conformitie of examples and force of reasons as haue bene and maie be brought ageinst yow howe will you satisfie your owne conscience which telleth yowe that so manie ceremonies so manie ordonances so manie decrees of bishoppes of Rome as Thomas Beacon otherwise called Theodore Basile or by what name so euer he be elles termed hath heaped together deliuered by them to the worlde some of them as emongest a nombre that which of all other yowe make lest account of holie water within little more then a hundred yeares after Christe and the most parte in the pure state of the primitiue churche would neuer haue bene by such common and generall confent without contradiction of anie receiued by the whole worlde vsed and frequented in all the churches scattred and dispersed thorough out the same onlesse the authors thereof had had vniuersall auctoritie to establishe that which hath bene vniuersallie receiued Thus hauing hetherto touching the supremacie saide so much as maie presently serue for your chalenge leauing the rest for a whole booke either by me when god shall sende better laisure or some other better able when he shall thincke best to be thereof made I shall nowe passe to the nexte article in question THAT THE PEOPLE VVAS TAVGHT VVITHIN THE FIRST SIX HVNDRED YEARES AFTER CHRISTE TO BELEVE that in the Sacrament of the altar for so dothe S. Austen terme it is conteined Christes bodie reallie substantiallie corporalie and carnallie TErtullian an auncient writer of Christes churche reporteth of heresie that the nature thereof is either when it is pressed with the auctoritie of scripture to denie it platlie to be scripture or if she receiue it with additions and detractions to the framing of her purpose to peruert it or finally with false gloses and vntrue expositions in such sorte to water it that it maie seme to haue a far other sense then had euer the holie ghost the author thereof This lesson and manner of olde heretikes was neuer I trowe more diligently put in execution or earnestlie practised theÌ„ in this our most miserable and wretched time nor in anie controuersie more perspicuouse and easie euen at the eye to be perceiued then in this of the moste blessed sacrament of Christes owne bodie and bloude For when our aduersaries demaunde of vs scripture for the confirmation of our parte and we bring them the wordes not of Peter not of Paule not of anie of thother apostles but of Christe him selfe that