Request is formally made by the Interest of my Lord Chancellor and in Honour of his Birth-day And therefore that notwithstanding this Conclusion which is really the Remains of your Old Forms before ever any New Intercessors were put into them you remain justly chargeable with what I accused you of That you make the Saints joint Intercessors with Christ to God and desire not only through his Merits but by theirs also to obtain your Requests 54. As for your last Pretence of Holy Scripture for this Practice it is every jot as little to the purpose in this as I have shewn it to be in the foregoing Point 1. God tells Isaac say you that he would bless him Reply p. 25. for his Father Abrahams sake Moses praying for the People desires God to remember Abraham Isaac and Jacob i. e. Because God in pursuance of his Covenant made with Abraham blessed his Son and Moses put him in mind of that Covenant to appease his Anger that he should not destroy the Israelites Therefore it is lawful now to pray to God not only by the Merits of Christ the only Mediator of God's Covenant with us but also of the Saints too for Pardon and Salvation 2. God in remembrance of his Promise made to David Reply ib. shew'd Mercy unto Solomon for his Sake Therefore Solomon might have urged to God the Merits of David for Pardon of his Sins and therefore we who have another and better and only Advocate may address to God by the Merits and Intercession of the Saints for Forgiveness I wonder you did not put in the City Jerusalems Merits too to prove that we may not only pray through the Merits of the Saints but of their Cities also For the Text seems as express in this as in the other 1 Kings xi 32. But he shall have one Tribe for my Servant David's sake and for Jerusulems sake the City which I have chosen out of all the Tribes of Israel 3. What you mean by your last Passage Reply ib. I must confess I cannot divine unless you think that because Elijah who was sent by God's express Command to make a Proof of his Divinity before all the People of Israel who were gone after Baal began his Prayer with that usual Character of his being the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob it was therefore through their Merits that the Fire came down from Heaven and burnt up his Sacrifice SECT III. In which the Arguments offer'd by the Vindicator for the Establishing of this Worship are particularly Consider'd and their Weakness laid open 55. Hitherto we have been clearing the matter of Fact what your Practice in this Invocation of Saints is I come now in the next place to examine your Arguments and see what grounds you have to support so great a Superstition And First for what concerns the Holy Scripture I find you do not much care to be try'd by that You plead Possession for your Warrant and are resolved that shall be sufficient till we by some better right can throw you out of it Now in this I cannot but commend your discretion for indeed those who go about to found this Article upon the Authority of Holy Writ do in the Opinion of many of your own Church but loose their Labour See Defence of the Expos p. 8. in annot since as they tell us for the Old Testament the Holy Patriarchs and Prophets that lived before Christ's Incarnation were not yet admitted into Heaven and therefore were not Capable of being pray'd to and for the New it was not express'd there for fear of Scandalizing the Jews and least the Gentiles should have been thereby moved to think that the Worship of new Gods had been proposed to them 56. Wherefore passing by the Holy Scripture which you look upon as unfit to be appeal'd to in this Case let us come to the Possession you so much boast of And see how you defend it against those Arguments I offer'd to prove That this Custom of Calling upon the Saints had no footing in the Church before the latter End of the IV. Defence ibid. Century and was then but beginning to creep into it And to reduce your Confusion to the clearest Method I can I will distinctly consider your Allegations in these two Periods First Of the first 300 Years wherein I affirm that there was no such practice in the Church Secondly Of the Fourth Century towards the latter End of which I confess it began to appear tho still with very great difference from what you now Practise I. PERIOD That the Custom of Praying to Saints had no being in the Church for the First 300 Years 57. Now for this I shew'd you in my Defence Defence of the Expos Art. 3. p. 6. That the Fathers of the IV. Century did certainly herein depart from the Practice and Tradition of the Ages before them because * That you were not able to produce so much as One Instance out of the first three Centuries of any such Invocation * But rather were forced to Confess that nothing of that kind was to be found amongst them * That this was in effect what your greatest Authors Card. du Perron Card. Bellarmine and even the Bishop of Meaux himself had done * And that indeed your own Principles oblige you to this Acknowledgment seeing you both allow that without believing that the Saints departed go forthwith to Heaven they could not have pray'd to them and yet cannot but say that this the Holy Fathers of the first three Ages did utterly deny These were my Arguments let us see how you clear your Possession from the force of them 58. First Reply p. 17. §. 13. You clap a Marginal Note upon my Assertion in earnest of your future Civility Primitive Fathers CALUMNIATED by the Defender And to wipe off this Calumny you undertake to shew that they did Pray to the Saints within the First 300 Years This is I confess to the purpose and if you can do it let the Note of Calumny stick upon Me but indeed I rather think that this Undertaking will fix another and a much more proper Note upon You. But let us hear your Proofs Ibid. And first you say My Brethren the Centurists of Magdeburg acknowledg that Origen prayed to Job and admitted the Invocation of Angels 59. Answer If this be true then Sir I tell you in one word that my Brethren the Centurists were mistaken and that considering the time they wrote in is no great Wonder But now did you never hear in your Life that your Brethren Erasmus Sixtus Senensis Possevin Bellarmine Baronius Labbé Du Pin c. have all confess'd that neither the Tracts nor Comments upon Job were Origen's Has no one ever told you Secondly Replique au roy de la Grande Bretagne liv v. c. 13. p. 982. that another of your Brethren Card. du Perron has utterly rejected the Authority of Origen as an incompetent
your Friend T. G. supposes That Actions must necessarily go whither they are intended yet I think both he and you ought by this time to be satisfied of the falseness of that Maxim And therefore should we allow your Intention to be only to worship Christ and not the Cross yet it do's not thence follow that all your worship must by the Interpretation of Gods Law terminate upon him But now 2. I have shown that for all your Pretences it is not your Intention that your Worship should so terminate upon Christ as not to terminate also upon the Cross together with him 3. If it were yet for all your intention you would nevertheless be far from Honouring Christ seeing that to worship Christ by an Image is a prohibited Act and God cannot be Honour'd in the very same Act in which he is disobey'd And though an intention to dishonour Christ by abusing his Image is sufficient to do it as in all other Cases one ill Circumstance will make the whole Action to be Evil yet a good intention alone is not sufficient to make an Act good nor by consequence for the glory of God unless that Intention it self be also govern'd by the Rules of His Commandments For otherwise a man might do the worst things with a Good intention and that should be sufficient to sanctify all his Villanies So far have you hitherto been from producing the least shadow of an Answer to overthrow the force of my Allegations My Last Instance was 65. Fourthly From the Hymns of your Church Reply p. 39. In which I shewed that you address your selves to the Cross and beg spiritual Graces of it and that you could not say the Cross was here put by a Figure to signify Christ crucified upon it because the very words of the Hymns shew that 't is the Material Cross as distinguish'd from Christ of which they speak 66. And here you are in a great distress you catch at every thing that comes near you but for the most part without considering whether it be to any purpose or no. As for instance You observe First That I am brisk and confident and have a mind to ' expose your Literature as well as your Idolatry But Sir may I beg leave to ask you on this Occasion the very same Question that you do Me. Who is it you mean when you say Ib. p. 40. I have a mind to expose YOVR Literature If you understand that of your Party I must tell you I am so far from exposing it that I shall presently shew you that they are the most Learned Men of your Church whom I follow in the Application of that Hymn I alledged But if by YOVR Literature you meant your own you have then made a most unlucky piece of Work of it in joining your Literature and your Churches Idolatry together and I doubt your Brethren will have but little cause to applaud the Comparison For do but grant it to be as easie to Prove the One as it is to Expose the Other and I will never desire a fairer Advantage against both than you have here offer'd to Me. For 67. Secondly You say I must confess that your Churches Hymns were made by Poets unless I will be so great a Hypocrite as to deny that Prudentius and Fortunatus were Poets I suppose Prudentius and Fortunatus clubb'd together to make the Hymn that I refer to Only the mischef is that the One lived in the End of the IVth the other not till about the middle of the Vth Century Nay but what now if neither of these were Author of that Hymn I am sure Gretser a very inquisitive Man in these matters speaks very doubtfully of it Lib. 1. de Cruce c. 35. and leaves it in Question whether Venantius Fortunatus or Theodulphus Bishop of Orleans was the Author of it and He lived yet later about the beginning of the IXth Century But to let this pass and consider 68. Thirdly How you prove these Men to be Poets for indeed it is very remarkable You tell me that if I will but look into the Corpus Poetarum I shall find them to have had a place among the Poets A most undoubted way this to find out whether an Author were a Poet or a Schoolman And I dare say you were beholden to no man's Literature but your own for this Remark 69. Well but to grant that which I perceive you do not know very well how to go about to prove that the Author of this Hymn whoever he was was a Poet what will follow Why then you say Fourthly I shall presently find the Figure he there uses his Title being not Of the CROSS but of the PASSION of our LORD And then you take a great deal of pains to prove what no man ever deni'd that the Cross in Holy Scripture is oftentime put to signify the Force Effects and Merits of Christ's Death and Passion Now if this be any thing to the purpose as all that drops from a Person of your Literature must be supposed to be then I must conclude that seeing the Title of that Hymn is ' Of the Passion of our Lord whereever I meet the word CROSS in it I am to understand it not of the Material Cross but of Christ's PASSION This you must mean or else all this ado is meer Reverie and Impertinence Now then let us see what mad work we shall according to this new Exposition make of that Hymn The PASSION of our King comes forth The mystery of the PASSION shines upon which PASSION the Maker of our Flesh was hanged in the Flesh Beautiful and bright PASSION Adorned with the purple of a King. Chosen of a fit Stock to touch such sacred Members Blessed PASSION upon whose Arms the price of the World hung Hail O Passion our only Hope In this time of the PASSION increase righteousness in the Godly and give pardon to the Guilty 70. Now this I am confident a man of so much Literature as you are will not allow to be a proper paraphrase of this Hymn And if instead of the Passion you put Christ for the Cross this will yet more increase the Nonsense and Confusion In short If all the Corpus Poetarum were alive and should lay their Heads together with you they could not find out any of their Figures that would do the business but must have some new Ecclesiastical Figure found out to make the Cross signify Christ and his Passion at the same time and in the same place in which it distinguishes both from the Cross And such a Figure I do say would be as Great a Mystery in Verse as Transubstantiation is in Prose And I desire you if you can to give me but one parallel Text of Scripture in which the Cross is at once taken both literally for that Cross on which Christ suffer'd and figuratively for Christ and his Sufferings upon it 71. In the mean time it shall suffice me Once more to
of it who yet both Know and Worship the One true God II. How such Persons may become Guilty of it I. Whether according to the Scripture-Notion of Idolatry those may not be guilty of it who yet both Know and Worship the One true God 79. And here it is not my design to enter on any large Discourse about the general Nature of Idolatry but still remembring the particular Point before me to prove it only in such Instances as are more immediately applicable to it And such are especially these two 1st The Idolatry of the Golden Calf 2dly Of the Calves of Dan and Bethel Reasons for Abrog the Test p. 85. 80. As to the former of these it has of late been suggested That it was made by Aaron as the Symbol of the Egyptian Apis or Osyris and to whose Idolatry the Israelites now return'd in the Worship of it But this is indeed a very weak Suggestion and whosoever will but consider the Circumstances of what was done by that People on this occasion will presently see that they design'd that Calf to be the Symbol not of any Egyptian Deity but of the true God whom accordingly they worshipp'd in presence of it And this will appear 81. 1st From the occasion of this Idolatry which was not any Infidelity as to the true God or that they had now any better Reasons given them for the Worship of others besides him but because Moses delayed to come down from the Mount Exod. XXXII therefore they urged Aaron to make them a God that might go before them They had now rested a long time in that place and were impatient to go on towards the Land of Promise But having now no Moses to enquire of Gods Pleasure they wanted an Oracle to consult upon these Occasions And therefore they cri'd out unto Aaron Vp make us Gods that shall go before us for as for this Moses the man that brought us up out of the Land of Egypt we wot not what is become of him 82. Now that this was all they intended by it will appear 2dly From the Character which the People presently gave to the Calf as soon as it was made This is thy God Ibid. ver 4. or as the Chaldee Paraphrast renders it This is thy Fear O Israel which brought thee up out of the Land of Egypt For sure the People were not so stupid as to think it was either that Image which had brought them up out of Egypt or that the Gods of Egypt had plagued their own People for their sakes and with a high hand deliver'd them out of their Power No doubtless they understood by it their God Exod. XX. who but just before at the delivery of the Law had assumed this as his own peculiar Character I am the LORD thy God which have brought thee out of the Land of Egypt and out of the house of Bondage And this naturally Suggests to me a third Evidence of this Truth 83. From the Title which Aaron himself gave to that God of which this Calf was the Symbol Ver. 5. And when Aaron saw it Ibid 5. he built an Altar before it and Aaron made Proclamation and said To morrow is a feast unto the LORD This was the peculiar and incommunicable name of the God of Israel which he assumed unto himself Exod. VI. 2. when he renew'd his Covenant with them and we do not find any one place in all the Holy Scripture where it has ever been attributed to any other 84. 4thly Had the People hereby designed this to be the Symbol of the Egyptian Deities how comes it to pass that as we read in the next Verse they offer'd Burnt-offerings Ver. 6. and Peace-offerings unto it For this both the Scripture tells us Reasons for Abr. the Test p. 114 c. was an Abomination to the Egyptians and a late Advocate for you freely confesses that they esteem'd Bullocks and Rams to be Sacred Animals and therefore never offer'd any of them to their Gods. 85. Lastly The Scripture plainly distinguishes this Idolatry from that of the Egyptians and makes the one to have been the Punishment of the other It is confess'd or rather contended for by the Author I but now mentioned that the Egyptian Idolatry consisted in worshipping the Sun Moon and Stars as the Supreme Deity Now this St. Stephen tells us that God afterwards permitted them to fall into and therefore it must have been some other Idolatry which in this Case they were Guilty of For speaking of their setting up the Golden Calf Acts VII 41. He thus goes on ver 42. THEN God turned and gave them up to worship the Host of Heaven 86. As for the other Instance I proposed to consider The Calves of Dan and Bethel the Occasion of their making was this When the ten Tribes had thrown off Rehoboam from being their King and had chosen Jeroboam to Reign over them This new Usurper fearing lest if the People went up at the yearly Sacrifices to Jerusalem where Rehoboam still Reigned over the other two Tribes it might in time occasion their falling away from him set up two Calves in Dan and Bethel and made Altars before them and perswaded the People 1 Kings XII 28. saying It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem Behold thy Gods O Israel which brought thee up out of the Land of Egypt 87. Now that Jeroboam intended these Calves to be Symbols of the God of Israel appears 1st From most of those Reflections I before made He gives them the same Character by which they constantly understood the God of Israel Behold says he thy God that brought thee up out of the Land of Egypt He offer'd Sacrifies before them and consecrated the Priests that Ministred unto them with a young Bullock and seven Rams 2 Chron XIII 9. All which is exactly agreeable to what God required of them but was utterly inconsistent with the Idolatry of Egypt But 88. 2dly We have some more peculiar Proofs of this matter I speak not now of the readiness of the People in complying with him which it is not imaginable they would so easily have done had he intended to lead them to the Worship of strange Gods. Nor will I insist upon the danger which so sudden an Innovation might have brought to this new King and who was not so little a Polititian as to attempt such an Alteration at a time when he was hardly yet well establish'd in his new Vsurpation These are indeed great Probabilities but such as this Cause needs not seeing it has the Evidence of Holy Scripture fully confirming it It being certain that the Idolatry of these Calves did not take them off from the Service of the true God. Let us examine all along the History of the Kings of Israel we shall find them constantly worshipping the Jehovah the God of Israel Jehu was zealous for him he destroy'd the Idolatry of Baal out of his concern for
IMPRIMATUR Liber cui Titulus A Second Defence of the Exposition of the Church of England H. Maurice Rmo in Christo P. D. Wilhelmo Arciepiscopo Cant. a Sacris Jan. 24. 1687. A SECOND DEFENCE OF THE EXPOSITION of the DOCTRINE OF THE Church of England Against the New EXCEPTIONS Of Monsieur de MEAVX AND HIS VINDICATOR The Second Part. LONDON Printed for Richard Chiswell at the Rose and Crown in St. Paul's Church-yard MDCLXXXVIII THE CONTENTS THE ANSWER to the PREFACE What little Cause those of the Church of Rome have to complain of the Evils of Heresie and Schism num 2 3. Whether Papists or Protestants have sought the most advantagious Means for the redressing of them n. 4. The Holy Scripture the only sure Foundation whereon to build our Faith n. 6. How vain the Attempts of those of the Church of Rome have been in their Disputes against us n. 9. Of the several Methods that they have taken in them n. 10. Their Complaints of our Misrepresenting their Doctrines and Practices groundless n. 18. Of the first CONVERSION of the English by AUSTIN the Monk n. 22. 47. That neither did Austin teach nor the British Churches believe or practise as the Church of Rome do's now n. 24. That for a long time after Austin both their Belief and Practice was different from that of the Church of Rome at this day n. 28. Of King HENRY VIIIth EDWARD VIth Q. MARY Q. ELIZABETH and the State of Religion in their days n. 35. That the Papists have been under-hand the Causes of our Divisions n. 42. Of the State of Religion under K. CHARLES Ist n. 45. How far we allow that Salvation is to be had in the Church of Rome n. 48. Of the Original of our CIVIL WARS in K. CHARLES Ist's time n. 51. Of the State of Religion under K. CHARLES IId and K. JAMES IId and what was the occasion of our present Controversies and how they have been carried on n. 52. What use our READERS ought to make of these Discourses n. 60. And the Method of my present DEFENCE n. 64. The Vindicators Apology for their NEW FRIENDS n. 67. And his Presumption why they cannot be supposed to palliate their Doctrine considered and refuted n. 68. The OATH to be taken by a NEW CONVERT at his admission into the Church of Rome n. 77. Introduction THat our Adversaries advance nothing New against us but repeat the same things over and over without taking the least notice of the Answers that have been given to them The ANSWER TO THE First ARTICLE THe VINDICATOR an Instance of this His first Article entirely stolen out of T. G. and confuted by Dr. Stillingfleet above 11 Years since pag. 45. num 1. That the true and genuine Sons of the Church of England have constantly charged those of the Church of Rome with IDOLATRY n. 3. In particular those whom he quotes to the contrary viz. Dr. Jackson n. 5. Dr. Field A. B. Laud. Dr. Heylin Mr. Thorndyke n. 7 8. and Dr. Hammond n. 9. His other little Cavils as to this Point consider'd n. 12. And the Authority of the Book of HOMILIES asserted n. 13. His particular Exceptions against my DEFENCE as to this Article answered And his shuffling exposed n. 19 c. The ANSWER TO THE Second ARTICLE COncerning the Object of Religious VVorship p. 55. That the VINDICATOR has in vain new modelled the B. of MEAUX's Position n. 2. The Scheme which he has laid down to justify the Doctrine and Practice of the Ch. of Rome in giving Religious Worship to others besides God consider'd in some short Reflections upon the several Parts of it The ANSWER TO THE Fourth ARTICLE OF the INVOCATION of SAINTS Of the State of the Question between us and the VINDICATOR's three Positions for the clearing of it pag. 65. n. 1 2. The Sum of this Article reduced to II. General Points I. POINT Whether it be lawful to pray to the Saints to PRAY FOR US Our Adversaries confess it not to be necessary n. 4. That it is unlawful upon the VINDICATOR 's own Principle so to do viz. That we may not give any religious Service strictly and properly so called to any other than God ONLY n. 5 6. That the Act of invoking the Saints is strictly and properly a Religious Act shewn 1st From the very Nature of the Act it self n. 7. It is not an Act of the same kind with that of desiring of our living Brethren to pray for us n. 8. But attributes to the Creature the Perfections proper to God. ib. The Bp of Meaux 's shuffling upon this occasion more particularly laid open n. 11. 2dly From the Circumstances of it n. 15. Of the Time Place and Manner in which the Romanists invoke their Saints n. 16. Of their offering up the Mass to their HONOUR and desiring its Acceptance through their MERITS n. 17 c. Of their making VOWS to the Saints n. 19 c. II. POINT What the true Doctrine and Practice of the Church of Rome is as to the Point of INVOCATION of SAINTS The Sum of this Part reduced to IV Considerations SECT I. Whether all the Prayers that are made to the Saints by those of the Church of Rome can fairly be reduced to this One Sense PRAY FOR US That they cannot shewn 1st From the Doctrine of the Council of Trent and of its Catechism n. 25. 2dly From the Opinion which those of the Church of Rome have of the State and Power of the Saints departed n. 30. 3dly From the neglect of the Council of Trent and of the Governours of the Church of Rome either to establish any such Interpretation or to Censure those that have taught otherwise n. 33. 4thly From the words of the Prayers themselves which utterly refuse such an Exposition n. 35. And from the other Service which the Church of Rome allows to the Saints and which cannot be reconciled with these Pretences n. 39. 5thly From the Opinions and Practice of some of the greatest Saints in the Roman Calendar and of other Persons of especial Note amongst them n. 40. Examples of all this n. 41 c. That the Holy Scripture is in vain alledged to countenance this Superstition n. 46. SECT II. After what manner it is that the Church of Rome prays to God through the Merits of her SAINTS The VINDICATOR's Pretences n. 49. That the Church of Rome do's truly pray to God for Mercies through the Merits of her Saints n. 51. The VINDICATOR's Excuses for this considered and exploded n. 53. That the Holy Scripture do's by no meanes countenance any such Practice n. 54. SECT III. In which the VINDICATOR's Arguments for the Establishing of this Worship are particularly consider'd and their Weakness laid open pag. 102. That the practice of Invocation of Saints is not to be proved by Holy Scripture n. 55. Nor has it the Antiquity that is pretended shewn in two periods I st PERIOD That the Custome of Praying to Saints
this Custom of Praying to Saints been introduced in the Fourth Age it would certainly have been condemned in the following I reply First That this is at most but a meer Presumption against plain and undoubted Matter of Fact and such as not only this but too many other Corruptions which have crept into the Church without any notable Opposition for some time made to them abundantly overthrows But Secondly Tho your Argument therefore if we should allow it would be good for little yet it has another Misfortune too which most of your Proofs labour under that it is as false as it is unconclusive For Good Sir did you never in your Enquiry into these Matters hear of such a Canon as the Thirty fifth of the Council of Laodicea Anno 364. expresly condemning the Worship of Angels Did you never meet with such an Order as that of the Third Council of Carthage in S. Austin's time Can. 23. commanding all the Prayers that were made at the Altar to be directed to the Father At least I am confident you cannot be ignorant what Vigilantius did in opposition to this Superstition and whose Piety S. Hierome himself tho his hot Antagonist could not but acknowledge Nor was he alone in this Quarrel S. Jerome speaks of several Bishops that were of his Party and join'd with him in his Endeavours against this growing Evil. Even S. Austin himself as appears from many Places of his Works spoke not a little contrary to it Vid. Epist ad Januar. Ep. 119. and plainly insinuates he would have done more had not this Practice already so possess'd Mens Minds that it was not safe so to do 83. But to quit all these The publick Declaration which Epiphanius made against the Collyridians a sort of Women in those days Superstitious in their Honour of the Blessed Virgin is alone enough to shew that this practice did not pass without Opposition in those times 'T is true says he the body of Mary was holy Epiphan Haeres 79. pag. 1061. C.D. but She was not therefore God. She was a Virgin and highly honour'd but She was not set forth to us to be worshipped but She her self worshipped him who was born of her flesh And therefore the holy Gospel has herein armed us before hand Joh. 2. our Lord himself saying Woman what have I to do with thee Wherefore do's he say this But only least some should think of the Blessed Virgin more highly than they ought He called her Woman as it were foretelling those Schisms and Heresies that should arise upon Her account But neither is Elias to be adored tho he be yet alive Nor is St. John to be adored nor Tecla Ib. 1062. C. nor any of the Saints If God will not permit us to worship Angels how much less the daughter of Anna Let Mary be held in Honour Ib. 1064. D. but let the Father Son and Holy Ghost be worshipped Ib. 1065. B. Let no one worship Mary For tho She were most fair and Holy and Honourable yet She is not therefore to be adored In a word Ib. 1066. D. Let Mary be held in Honour but let God be Adored 84 To conclude this Point you tell us Reply That it seems most extravagant to you that Protestants should demand of you to shew them some testimonies of the Fathers of the first Three Hundred years Reply pag. 18. who lived under persecution few of whose Writings remain the greatest part being lost and destroy'd and yet reject the Fathers of the IVth Age who wrote when the Church began first to be in a flourishing Condition Can any one imagine that the Church when in Grots and Caverns taught one thing and when She came into the light practised another 85. Answ What meer Harangue is this But we must be contented where better is not to be had And therefore I reply 1st As to your insinuation which since Cardinal Perron first invented it has been the constant common place of the little crowd of Controvertists that have follow'd after viz. That the Fathers of the first Three Hundred years lived under persecution and therefore wrote but little and of that little the greatest part was lost too tho I can easily excuse this in you as a Sin of Ignorance yet I must needs say of the Cardinal and Others that they have herein greatly injured those Holy Men who were neither so lazie nor fearful as they have represented them to have been 86. For not to say any thing of the foundation of all our Religion the Holy Scriptures which were written within this period how large a Catalogue has Eusebius alone preserved of the works of those Holy Fathers And yet how many of the Latin Church has he omitted Look into his History and there you will find those great names Clemens Romanus Papias Quadratus Aristides Hegesippus Justin Martyr Dionysius of Corinth Pinytus Apollinarius Melito Modestus Irenaeus Theophilus Tatian Bardesanes Clemens Alexandrinus Rhodo Miltiades Apollonius Serapion Heraclitus Moscarinus Candidus Sextus and Arabien all to have been Writers of the Second Century Tertullian Judas Beryllus Hippolytus Caius Africanus Dionysius Alexandrinus Nepos Cyprian Origen in the Third And the Writings of which last Author only were said to have amounted to Six Thousand Volumes and which tho St. Jerome retrench'd to a third part yet still he left Two Thousand to him 87. In what sort of Writings were these Holy Men defective Some publish'd Apologies for our Religion Others disputed against the Heathens the Jews the Heretick's of those times Some wrote of the Discipline of the Church Others moral Discourses for the direction of Mens Lives and Manners Their Histories their Accounts of the Holy Men who suffer'd for the Faith their Comments on the holy Scripture their Sermons are yet upon Record And when such was their diligence why should it be insinuated as if living under persecution they wrote but little and therefore that it is unreasonable to appeal to them 88. Nor is your next pretence any better that their Writings are lost and destroyed For tho it be indeed in great measure true that in respect of what they wrote there is but a small part brought down to us and we have some reason to believe that the Opposition they made to your Corruptions has been in some measure the Cause of it See Def. of the Expos p. 127. c. yet have we still enough to shew us what the Faith of those times was and how vastly you have declined from it And when both the Writings of Holy Scripture and of those Fathers that do remain speak so plainly against you we have no great reason to believe that those which are lost were at all more favourable to you 89. But can any one Imagine Reply p. 18. that the Church when in Grots and Caverns should teach one thing and when it came into the light practise another I answer yes this is very easie to be
have not believed were not men willing to be contentious might End the Controversie And for the Authority you speak of that it was rediculous to pretend prescription for that which has not the least foundation neither in Holy Writ nor in Primitive Christianity of which not one instance appears for the first Three Hundred years after Christ and much to the contrary 103. Reply p. 21. §. 16. To this you now reply in your Margin with great Assurance Protestants destitute of Scripture Proofs against the Doctrine of Invocation of Saints But all you have to say in the Book is That you do not give Divine Worship to the Saints nor call upon them in that strict sense in which they are Duties only to be paid to God. That is to say you play with Words and make use of such distinctions as if they were allowed a man might evacuate any other of Gods Commands without a possibility of being confuted And I desire you to tell me what answer you would make an Impudent Woman that should give her Husbands Bed to another and being charged by you for breaking the Seventh Commandment should tell you that you were not to be so uncharitable as to judge of what she did by the External Act that the Law forbad only lying with another man as with her Husband and that in this strict sense she was still Innocent by reserving that highest Degree of Conjugal affection to him only the giving whereof to another would make her guilty 104. But since you are so desirous to know what our Reasons against this Invocation are I will now very freely lay them before you if you will first give me leave only to prepare the way for them by stating truly the difference between us in this matter which you are wonderfully apt either to mistake or to palliate 105. You tell us in your Vindication Vind. p. 30. Repl. p. 11. Expos Sect. IV. p. 5. Papist Rept N. 2. p. 2. That All you say is that it is lawful to pray to the Saints and so again in your Reply The difference you say between us is Whether it be lawful for us to beseech or intreat them to pray for us Monsieur de Meaux in the same moderate way tells us that the Church teaches that it is profitable to pray to the Saints And the Representer from the Council of Trent says of a true Papist That his Church teaches him and he believes that it is Good and profitable to desire the intercession of the Saints reigning with Christ in Heaven In your Discourses with those of our Communion there is nothing more Ordinary with you than to make them believe that you value not praying to the Saints nor Condemn any for not doing it That if this be all they scruple in your Religion they shall be received freely by you and never pray to a Saint as long as they live Nay I have heard of some who have gone so far in this matter as to venture their Religion upon it that you do not necessarily require the practise or profession of this service at all nor pronounce any Anathema against us for opposing of it 106. But this is not ingenuous nor as becomes the Disciples of Christ For tell me now I beseech you If we unite our selves to your Church will you not oblige us to go to Mass with you Or can you dare for our sakes to alter your Service and leave out all those things that relate to the Blessed Virgin and to the Saints in it Shall we be excused from having any thing to do with your Litanies and Processions your Vespers or your Salves Or will you purge all these too in Order to our Conversion When we lie in our last Agonies will you be content to Anoint us in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost and leave the Angels Arch-Angels Patriarchs Prophets and Apostles Martyrs Confessors Virgins and all the Saints out of the Commission And when our Souls are now expiring shall we be sure you will not then at least trouble us with that long Beadroll which your Office prescribes to be call'd upon in that Ceremony If you have indeed the Liberty to do this why do ye not use it and remove so great a stumbling block as this out of our way But if you cannot dispense with these things for our common Conversion how shall we believe that you can do it to satisfie a private Proselyte 107. The truth is Invocation of Saints in your Church is not esteemed so indifferent a matter as you would have it thought to be It is a Worship you suppose due to them And to which they acquire a right by their Canonization So Cardinal Bellarmine informs us And therefore in your Profession of Faith set forth by the order of Pope Pius IVth you are obliged with a firm Faith to believe and profess that the Saints who reign together with Christ are to be Venerated and Invoked And tho the Alarm which the Council of Trent was in upon the News of the Popes sickness and the haste which thereupon they made to conclude that Synod permitted them not to frame any Canons in this last as they had done in the other Sessions yet the materials put together in the Chapter shews us what Anathema's would have been thunder'd against us Concil Trid. Sess 25. For to take it only as it lies in that Session There we find the Bishops and Pastors of the Church commanded to teach what therefore I hope is undoubtedly the Churches sense in this point That the Saints who Reign together with Christ offer up their Prayers to God for Men That it is Good and Profitable in a suppliant manner to call upon them And that for the obtaining benefits of God by his Son Jesus Christ our Lord who is our only Saviour and Redeemer we should flie to their Prayers Aid and Assistance They declare that those who deny which you know we all do that the Saints who enjoy Eternal Happiness in Heaven are not to be invoked or say that this Invocation is Idolatry as we generally believe it to be or that it is contrary to the Word of God or derogatory to the Honour of the One Mediator between God and Man Christ Jesus or that it is foolish to supplicate those who Reign in Heaven in word or in mind do think WICKEDLY 108. These are the words of your Council If therefore you permit your Prosolytes to profess what they do not believe if you receive those as good Catholicks into your Church whom nevertheless you know to remain still infected with wicked Opinions contrary to the Doctrine and Practise established amongst you If you allow them to assist at your prayers without any intention to joyn in them nay in an Opinion that they could not pray with you without committing a grievous sin Then go on to make folks believe as you do that you oblige no body to pray to the Saints
thing extraordinary The Writer of her Life assures us that she was often wont to take him into Her Arms and play with him And the like happened to many other of your Saints as for instance Ibid. Mart 30. Saint Aldegundis St. Francisca of whom we are told that being committed to the care of an Arch-angel she did oftentimes read the Office of the Blessed Virgin in the night lb. Mart. 9. by the Light that proceeded from his Rays And was for her diligence in it so acceptable to the Virgin that she several times came down from Heaven to refresh her and offer'd her Son to be kiss'd and embraced by her Tom. IV. p. 590. Dec. XI 156. But the Favours of the Blessed Virgin to St. Ida were of all others the most considerable For coming down into Her Cell with her INFANT JESUS Behold says she O Ida thy Love Take Him into thy Lap and satisfy thy self with the Kisses and Embraces of him whom thou lovest My Author goes on beyond all bounds even of common decency But I must stop here and not repeat those Blasphemies which cannot be read without trembling But O Blessed Jesus How long wilt thou suffer this dishonour and permit an unbounded Superstition to run to these Excesses I appeal to all the Christians of the World what mean dishonourable Notions must they have of the God of Heaven and Earth that in such a discerning Age can presume to publish such Romances These Stories might indeed become a Homer or a Virgil But what is fancy in them being applied to a Venus and a Cupid is an unpardonable Blasphemy to be thus used of the Saviour of the World who is God over all blessed for ever 157. These are the effects of this Superstition I might add many other Examples no less Horrible in which our Blessed Lord has been diminish'd to make up the Honour of his Servants But I shall shut up all with an Impiety of another kind though the effect of this Worship and which ought the more to be taken notice of both because it was done by a Society which would be thought at least the most zealous of any for their Faith and was exposed publickly in the sight of the Sun and before the Eyes of many to whom I now write See the Account publish'd by that Society La S te Vierge Patrone Honoree Bienfaisante dans la France dans le Luxembourg The thing I mean is the late Procession of the Jesuits at Luxemburg May 20. 1685. designed for the Glory of the Blessed Virgin the Honour'd and Affectionate Patroness of France and Luxembourg The Procession indeed was singularly extravagant and it needed the skill of that Learned Society to put Prophaness into so Scholastick a dress Heathenism and Christianity walk'd together as if the Fathers of the Society had equally reverenced the Ancient Deities of the One as the Modern Deities of the Other On the one side were carried the Image of the Blessed Virgin and the Holy Sacrament On the other Mars Vulcan the Cyclops and Nayades Ceres Flora Pomona c. And these too with all the Pomp and even under the Names of GODS and DIVINITIES At several Stations where the Procession was to rest Theatres were erected to serve to inspire agreeably say the Learned Fathers in the Account which they printed of this days Work a Piety towards our Lady of Consolation So the Blessed Virgin there is called The second of these Theatres was for the GOD MARS who commands his Warriors to take heed not to commit any insult from henceforth upon the Chappel of our Lady of Consolation This is Mars's care And the Device for the GOD Mars was Procul ô procul ite profani Virg. In the third Theatre Ceres Flora Pomona c. rejoyce at the return of our Lady of Consolation And their Motto still under the Title of Divinities was Jam redit Virgo redeunt Saturnia Regna It were too long to transcribe all the other Follies and Impieties of this days Solemnity in which the Holy Scripture found no room the Sacrament but very little The whole Piety was designed to the Blessed Virgin and because Christianity had not Gods enough in it to set forth her Glory all the Poetic Deities were revived to inspire agreeably a Devotion into the People for Her. This was indeed a Master-piece of Contrivance and what Invention shall next be had to excite a Devotion to her we may expect to see the first time the Gentlemen of the Society shall have Occasion to make their complying Consciences do something extraordinary for the Flattery of a Prince so much their Friend and therefore so much their Favourite as he for whose Honour this Solemn Procession was in great measure designed In the mean time I shall leave it to the Reader seriously to consider what sad Effects such a Devotion as this has given birth to and what just Cause we have to oppose a Superstition contrary to the Holy Scripture unknown to the best and most Primitive Antiquity unreasonable in its self and which is worst of all not only very Vnprofitable but very Wicked too in its Practice ANSWER TO THE FOURTH ARTICLE OF IMAGES and RELIQUES IN the beginning of this Article you tell me but with very little reason that you might have past over this point without any further consideration Reply p. 23. the best Argument you bring for it being if I mistake not this That you are not obliged to defend what I had advanced against you upon it And indeed tho the reason be but a poor one yet I am perswaded you had done better both for the interest of your Cause and for your own credit to have contented your self with it and have past over this Article altogether rather than by giving such loose Answers to my Allegations to have satisfied the World that you have no just Exceptions to make against them 2. Were I minded in return to excuse my self the trouble of any farther Answer to you I could I believe give you some more plausible pretences for it I might tell you 1st That your Distinctions are now so well known and have been so often exploded by us Reply Ibid. that there is no longer any danger that even my friends the Vulgar should be circumvented by them I might add 2dly And that with great truth that this whole subject has been utterly exhausted by that Learned Man I have so often mention'd in his Defence of the Charge of Idolatry against T. G. and from whom you have here again borrow'd your chiefest strength I might mind you 3ly How after two endeavours to reply to him T. G. was forced to give over and it is now above eight years since neither he nor any of your Church has thought fit to carry on the Dispute I might desire you 4thly To compare your performances upon this point with what the Representer ventur'd not above a year since to make
Clergy in their Synod at Paris and by almost all the rest of the Bishops of the Western Church against your pretended General Council of Nice wherein this Doctrine was first establish'd The Definitions of this Council being sent to the Emperour out of the East he transmitted a Copy of them into England Hereupon Alcuinus who had formerly been his School-master wrote an Answer to him in the Name of the Clergy of England to declare their dislike of this Doctrine and the account of which our ancient Histories give us in these words In the Year from the Incarnation of our Lord 792 Charles King of France sent to Britain a Synode Booke which was directed unto him from Constantinople Hoveden Annal ad Ann. 792. Simeon Dunelm Hist p. 111. Mat. West ad An. 793. Spelm. Conc. Tom. 1. p. 306. in the which Book alas many things unconvenient and contrarye to the true Fayth were found in especial that it was establyshed with a whole consent almost of all the Learned of the East no less than of three hundredth Bishops or more that Men ought to worship Images the whiche the Churche of God DOTH VTTERLYE ABHORRE Against the whiche Alcuine wrote an Epistle wonderouslye proved by the Authoritye of Holy Scripture and brought that Epistle with the same Booke and Names of our Byshops and Princes to the King of France And thus neither was this Doctrine nor Practice propagated down from Austin to King Henry the Eighth but on the contrary unknown to Austin and rejected as you see by the Church of England almost 200 Years after his first Conversion of it 35. Ibid. And this may suffice to shew both your Skill in Church-History and the little pretence you have for that vain and most false Assertion that your Religion was taught and practised by S. Austin and propagated down even to King Henry the Eighth 's time whereas indeed it is made up of such Corruptions as crept into it long after his Decease Your next business is to rail at King Henry the Eighth which you do very heartily See Thuanus tho let me tell you that better Men than you are even of your own Commuion and who were much more acquainted with the Affairs of those Times speak better things of him And had he been as bad as you are able to represent him yet I could send you to some of the Heads of your Church who have as far excell'd him in Wickedness as ever any of your Canonists have pretended they did in Authority But the Merits of Princes as well as ordinary Persons are measured by some Men not according to their real worth but as they have served their Interests or opposed the Usurpations And tho King Henry the Eighth be now such a Monster yet had he not thrown off the Pope's Supremacy you would have made no difficulty to have forgiven him all his other Sins whilst he lived and would have found out somewhat to justify his Memory now he is dead We know how one of the best Popes of this last thousand Years called Heaven and Earth to celebrate the Praises of a Traytor that had murder'd his Master and possess'd himself of his Empire And Cromwell himself tho a Usurper and Heretick yet wanted not his Panegyrists among those pretenders to Loyalty who now cannot afford a good word to the Honour of a Prince from whose Royal Line their present Sovereign at this day derives his Right to the Crown he wears 36. But however were the Vices of that Prince otherwise never so detestable yet I shall leave it to the World to judg who proceeded with the most Care and Sincerity in the Point you insist upon of his Divorce with Q. Catherine the King who consulted almost all the Learned Men as well as the most famous Vniversities of Europe and then acted according to their Determination Or the Pope who by his notorious jugling with him in the whole process of that Affair shew'd that he resolved to decide it not by any Laws of God or the Church but meerly as his greater Interests with the Emperor or the King should move him to do 37. Ibid. The next step you make is from King Henry to his Son King Edward the Sixth And here you tell us Reply p. 8. That as Schism is commonly follow'd with Heresy so now the Protector who was tainted with Zuinglianism a Reform from Luther endeavour'd to set it up here in England In which you again discover your Zeal against us but not according to Vnderstanding There is hardly any one that knows any thing of the beginning of this Reformation but will be able to tell you that the chief Instrument of it was one whom you have not once mentioned Arch-bishop Cranmer I will not deny but that the Protector concur'd with him in his design but whether he was Zuinglian or what else neither you nor I can tell Dr. Heylin See your Hist Coll. p. 103. who on this occasion is usually your Oracle seems rather to think he was a Lutheran tho easie to be moulded into any form But this I know that had you been so well vers'd in these things Hosp Hist Sacram par 2. p. 33. Lampadius par 3. p. 439. Scultetus Annal. ad An. 1616. as one who pretends to write Historical Remarks ought to be you would have spared that idle Reflection of Zuinglius's being a Reform from Luther it being evident to those who understand his History that neither himself nor the Cantons in which he preach'd were ever Lutherans But on the contrary whereas Luther appear'd but in the Year 1517 Zuinglius began to preach against the Corruptions of the Church of Rome some Years before when the very Name of Luther was not yet heard of And had several Conferences with Cardinal Matthews then in Switzerland to this purpose before ever the other appear'd in publick against them So unfortunate a thing is it for Men to pretend to be witty upon others without considering their own blind side But you go on 38. Ad pag. 9. Reply And from that time the Catholick Doctrine which had been taught by our first Apostles and propagated till then began to be rejected and accused as Erroneons Superstitious and Idolatrous and they who profess'd it persecuted Answ This is still of the same kind as false as it is malicious How false it is that the Doctrine you now profess was either planted here by our first Apostles or propagated till this time in the Church of England I have already shewn And for the Persecution you speak of methinks you should have been asham'd to mention that word being to name Q. Mary's Reign in the very next Line But what at last did this Persecution amount to Were any Roman Catholicks banish'd or put to death for their Religion Were the Laws turn'd against them or any Dragoons sent to convert them No Bonner and Fisher and two others Heath Bishop of Worcester and Day Bishop of Chichester
the Supernatural Gifts which God has bestow'd upon his Servants but the very Nature and Quality of the Act it self such Acts by which we pay not only all that worship which may be due to the Excellencies of a pure Creature but the proper Exercises of Religion as Prayer Confession and such like and these with all the Circumstances of a proper religious Worship in the House of God in the midst of his Solemn Service it may be in the same Breath and Form in which we address to the Creator this is that religious Worship which we constantly affirm and which you your self confess may not without impiety be given to any but God only and it is for this we charge you with that which by your own acknowledgment none of your Distinctions reach to nor will therefore excuse you of viz. Idolatry 5thly As for the outward Expressions of this Honour by bodily Actions as Bowing Kneeling Prostrating c. these we confess are ambiguous and must be determined by the other Circumstances But then we deny that they are to be interpreted meerly according to the intention of him that performs them There is an External Adoration which no Internal Act of the Vnderstanding or Will can excuse if it be applied to any besides God. Such as is perform'd with those Circumstances of a Religious Worship before mention'd as to Time Place Words and the like In short it is we say Idolatry by any External Act whatsoever to shew that we do attribute Religious Honour to any other but God alone 6thly And for the rest we do affirm That there are some other kind of External Actions so peculiarly appropriate to God that they cannot without Idolatry be attributed to any other Such as 1st Sacrifice * Bp of Meaux 's Expos Sect. III. p. 4. by your own Confession †See this prosecuted at large in Dr. Still first Answer to T.G. p. 190 to 283. to which I will 2dly add all those other things of the like kind which God appropriated to himself under the Law as Religious Adoration Erection of Temples and Altars Burning of Incense in token of Divine Worship Solemn Invocation and Vows in all which neither our Saviour nor his Apostles having made the least alteration we ought certainly as both the Jews and Primitive Christians most undoubtedly did to esteem them still his own peculiar Prerogative Having thus establish'd in General our Notion of Religious Worship let us see if any of these Distinctions will as you pretend excuse you of that imputation which has been laid upon you ANSWER TO THE THIRD ARTICLE OF THE INVOCATION of SAINTS IN the beginning of this Article I cannot but acknowledge a commendable Endeavour in you to clear the true State of the Question betwixt us Reply p. 10. And tho I am not absolutely of your mind nor do I see any Cause for your Supposal that Mr. †P. 11. Thorndyke spoke the Sense of the Church of England in every one of those Particulars mention'd by you in Order thereunto yet I will not enter into any Controversie with you about them 1. And first Be it allow'd that the Words Prayer Invocation Calling upon Address c. are or may be Equivocal i. e. as that Learned Man phrases it that we may make use of the same Expressions in signifying our Requests to God and to Man tho yet for the two first of these viz. Prayer and Invocation they are seldom Applied to any Other than a Religious Sense This T. G. long since observed and you have now borrowed it from Him and you may make what use of this Remark you please in managing of this Controversie 2. We do not deny but that we ought to Honour the Saints departed as well as Holy Men upon Earth Only we desire that that Honour be such as becomes them to receive and us to pay We honour them when we praise and much more when we follow their Faith and Patience And because the Reason and End of this Honour is Religious you may without being contradicted by me call the Honour it self Religious too seeing you explain your self to mean no more by it than an an External Denomination from the Cause and Motive Vind. p. 28 29. but not from the Nature of the Act its self 3. Nor will I dispute with you lastly Whether the Saints in Happiness do not in General pray for the Church Militant For 't is to as little purpose to deny what cannot be disproved as to affirm what one cannot prove I have as great an Honour as any Man for Mr. Thorndyke's Memory but yet I cannot see the Proof even of this in those Scriptures which as you say He proves it by Reply P. 11. Some Fathers I know have said so but their saying it is not to Me a sufficient Proof of a Point of Doctrine When all is done the Congruity of the thing is the best that can be brought for it And if upon this account you are resolved to call them Advocates or Intercessors between God and us Ibid. you will I hope excuse me if I do not comply with you in it That they are full of Charity towards us who are Members of the same Body with them I make not the least Question But how they express it I do not certainly know because many Particulars there are from whence such a Matter is to be concluded which are all hidden from my Knowledge One thing I know That we have a Mediator at the Right Hand of God who knows all our Wants which I see no reason to believe the greatest Saint in Heaven does I am likewise assured that his Right to intercede for us is founded upon the Sacrifice of his Death And since the Gospel gives this Honour and Prerogative to Him ONLY to appear in the Presence of God for us I shall never whilst I live help forward an Ambiguity in those Titles of a Mediator with God or an Advocate with the Father or an Intercessor in Heaven by attributing of them to any Saint whatsoever These Expressions so applied are dangerous and scandalous and 't is but a frivolous Pretence for the doing of it that possibly the Saints may do something for us in Heaven upon the account of which the Titles of our Redeemer may in some sense be given to them Reply p. 11. 2. As for the State of the Question which you next propose you should know by this time that we are by no Means agreed that the only thing in dispute betwixt us is Whether it be lawful for us to Pray to the Saints that they would Pray for us and Whether such kind of Addresses as these are of such a Nature as to make Gods for so you tell me I very disrespectfully call them Ibid. tho I believe you will find 't is your Misrepresenter's Phrase and not Mine of Men and Women You do indeed with your Guides T. G. and the Bishop of