smelles and odours all deuised to feede and occupie the outwarde senses of man and to stuffe his head and vnderstanding with the vaine gazing and admiration of their counterfeit Religion so as manye that tooke themselues to be verye nycenosed and coulde as they thought iudge colours were ouertaken in their folly and toke quid pro quo and Mercurium sublimatum for good and wholesome Suger And how this broode of smoth smiered shauelings haue the inuentions and dreames of their owne ydle and drousie braynes sette vp to themselues a mortall God that mitred Monarche of Rome who with power and tirannie shoulde maynetayne them in a perpetuall and flourishing kingdome and they for their part euen from the seliest hedge priest or other most simple in degree vnder them being greased with the Popes Oyle euen to the proudest and most princelie Prelate euery one in his kinde to labour and apply themselues with tongue and pen or rather with tooth and nayle if they doe not besides vse any other more violent weapons to deuise studie serch and vse al the fetches possibly how they may keepe all things vpright and cloute vp with stable straw and such paltry the ruynes breaches and decayes of this their Chaos or confused common wealth Thou shalt also see as it were by an Antithesis or comparison the sacred Scriptures set against their vayne and fantasticall toyes and inuentions and the same Scriptures so aptely applyed and truely alleaged as can not be desired to be better or more effectually done to the purpose And betwene the serious and fruitefull allegation of the scriptures and the necessary detection of their chast life and holynesse thou shalt finde some things and I beleue not fewe in number that thoughe the same be no meere nor malicious inuentioÌ„s yet can they not be iudged to be Fables but rather matters of truth bicause the worlde else hath in their seuerall places had the tryall and experience of the same And histories haue also in some parte set them forth to the great coÌ„mendation of the doers therof But one thing gentle Reader thou wilt not a little maruell at that their spirituall weapons wherewith they defend their Romish kingdome â–ª I meane their owne councels and constitutions herein alleaged are so brought against them selues and so retourned home to their owne confusion and ouerthrowe that there remayneth now no more spirituall defence or resistence but that they lay hande on the Temporall sworde and vse the violent argumentes offyre sworde and halter which howe muche they haue done in this Realme of late dayes that very Rome it selfe hath abhorred I leaue to thy iudgement for the vnborne children in the mothers wombe and the louing dogges with their masters haue witnessed the same Thou mayest chaunce to finde this boke beside that it is writteÌ„ in the Italian tongue in the Latine also which seemeth to haue beene done by the authour him selfe what tyme he saw his laboure so well to be lyked and allowed as he wrote the same in the latine tongue also for the better edifying and calling home of the sheepe that went a straye and the more assured confirmation of them in the truth of Gods worde Yet bicause this Italian copie is the larger wherevnto is added the voyage to Hell which the Latine booke hath not I haue therefore chosen and followed the same and tourned it into our tongue as nowe thou seest There follow in the ende therof certayne questions put forth by Pasquine to be disputed but not as Pâ—â—adoxes in the Councell holden in that holy fathers dayes Paule the thirde at Trent wherein he scorneth priuily the great and manifolde abuses of the Churchmen aswell of the proude Prelates as the single soled sir Iohns the fat bellyed monks lying Fryers their false allegations of the Scriptures their idlenesse their pride their voluptuousnesse tiranny hipocrisie wyuelesse but not womanlesse chastitie and other their endlesse and abhominable doings the which articles maye as it were in a briefe comprehende the whole discourse of the booke afore going and shewe forth the spirituall fruites that spring of that Religion So as to conclude gentle Reader you may see and finde that there is no matter of controuersie wherein the papistes differ from the true Church of Christ and the heauenly doctrine taught before and since by the Patriarches Prophetes and Apostles as in their purgatorie their iustifying workes their corporall presence of Christ in the Sacrament their transubstantiacion adoration al the rest of their new found learning but that the same all and euery of them are quite defaced and ouerthrowen by the manifest worde of God Thou canst therefore desire no more to the certifying and confirmation of thy conscience in the truth or otherwise to satisfie thy minde with the detection of popery and the merie and pleasaunt disposing of the matter so as whether thy profite or pleasure shal be most I know not and therfore will not take vpon me to iudge This shall I one-desire thee to reade with iudgement and lay aside all affection and malice both which are partiall Iudges and so to walke directly throughe the whole worke whereby thou mayest discerne betwene the truth and falshode to thy edifying and comfort so shal I think my labour trauaile thus to translate it for thee well bestowed and shall sende thee to the booke to heare what he sayeth himselfe from the which I thought good with no longer Preface to withholde thee Farewell B. G. To the Reader IF he that wrights a worke at first doth merit fame I déeme him worthy of no lesse that doth translate y e same For as the first by toyle doth vtter things vnknowne The seconde doeth from forrein speach declare them in his owne The sequele sheweth a proufe of skilfull Authour plaine And of Translatour skilfull that to wright it toke such paine If pleasure thou possesse or profite thereby take They haue the summe of their desire that pende it for thy sake But though thou séeme to want of that thou wish at furst Reade once againe with good aduise before thou iudge the wurst Lay loue and hate aside affection put to flight So shalt thou iudge as Iustice wils so shall thy dome be right Remember Midas eares were framed lyke an asse Bicause he sayde that Pan in skill Apollo farre did passe So if thou shalt preferre some trifle more than truth Thou shalt deserue as Midas did the Asse his eares forsouth For learned was the man that first the booke did frame And learned he I promise thée that did translate the same And learned is their worke and honest too their fact And honest men will honestly allowe eche honest act But those that néedes will storme and wot not well wherefore Must néedes haue parte of that rewarde which is rehearst before Which if thou will auoyde as I would wish to shunne Doe iudge with good aduised skill and thus my tale is done Ber. Gar. Faultes escaped
without a wyfe therefore is it euill for a man to haue a wife And in an other place he sayth that God hath promised heauen to virginitye and the earth to them that be maried Pasquine This is euen the ful and flat heresie of Montanus The which Ierome foloweth also in condempning altogether the seconde mariage as is to be séene in that he wryteth to Iouinian where he affirmeth that the seconde and thirde mariage is naught and where he taketh holde for the confirmatioÌ„ of his opinion he wresteth the scriptures to his meaning without purpose as a man may sée in the Epistle that he wryteth to that gentlewoman of Rome who bycause she was a wyddow and but a yong woman to obey Saint Paules councel was maryed agayne the beginning of his Epistle is this Thou art become shamelesse and hast put on the face of a Harlot Marforius Me thinketh therefore that his workes shoulde haue shewed with great aduisement what is the cause that being a man of so great learning he taketh things so cleane contrary that he is so stubburne in his opinions Pasquine What bycause he was a man and a Dalmatian Marforius Thou meanest somewhat in that thou callest him a Dalmatian Pasquine I meane then that Nation is most obstinat in that which once entreth into their braynes and setteth nought by the opinion of al other Nations Knowest thou not that olde frende of Cardinal Chietti that commeth oft times to sée him Marforius Ha yes yes I know him he speaketh Gréeke very oft bycause he would séeme to vnderstand much of it Pasquine That is he When this man talketh of any thing of his owne thou neuer heardest a prouder man nor a greater boaster speake nor that more disprayseth all thinges that come not from him selfe or from his countrymen nor a more stubburne in his opinions and therefore maruel not at Saint Ierome for they are all suche kinde of men Marforius This also maketh me much more to maruel that these men haue so much extolled this virginity sith there is not in all the holy scripture any one precept that forbiddeth to any kinde of men mariage and where there are so many places that comaunde and commende it For by this meane God would that the world should be maintayned And this was defended by the good Byshop Paphnutus in the councell of Neece against thrée hundreth Byshops Pasquine I beleue that it is for the Uirgin Maries sake that these men woulde haue so many Virgins Marforius Yet can they not for all that bring to passe that there should be many Maries the which was verely a Phoenix Pasquine I like it well that thou beginnest to vnderstande the matter Marforius Sée Pasquine I haue done as Thelemachus did in Homer who sayde that by other mennes wyse communications he had learned much Pasquine I muche reioyce that this my talke hath brought forth so good fruit in thée Marforius And I reioyce much more thereat But to returne to the purpose of this virginitie I say that the Uirgine Mary neuer made accoumpt that hir Uirginity should be of any merite towards God for she had determined to haue a husband would before haue had him but that the Aungell of the Lorde declared to hir that high and heauenly determination that God had made concerning hir And God had regarde not to hir virginity but to hir humility as may be séene in hir owne song where she sayde He hath regarded the lovvlinesâ—e of his handemayde and sayde not to the virginity of his handemayd for lowlinesse is it that pleaseth the Lord and that is by him commaunded vnto vs whyles he sayeth Learne of me for I am meeke and lovvlye of heart and sayde not learne of me for I am a Uirgin And if thou wilt sée this more clerelye loke that place of the Gospell where the Disciples sought to knowe who shoulde be greatest in the kingdome of heauen Christ set there in the middest among them a childe saying That they must humble them selues and become as that childe if they vvould enter into the kingdome of heauen And if he had made so great an accoumpt of Uirginity or had knowen it to be so necessary he might haue sayd that they must be virgins as that childe was if they would enter into the kingdome of heauen And see moreouer the greatest prayse that is giuen to Christ is for that as the Scripture sayth He made him selfe of no reputation taking vppon him the shape of a seruaunt and not bycause he was a Uirgin But herevpon the Lordes saying putteth me in some little doubt which sayth That some do make them selues chast for the kingdome of God Pasquine Let not this trouble thee for this worde to make chaste in that place meaneth nothing else but to take away euery euill affection not onely of fleshly luste but also of all maner euill desire therto As also where he sayeth That thou shouldest pull out thine eye aâ—d cut of thine hande he meaneth nothing else but that thou shouldest take from thée that vice which ouercommeth thée by meanes of that member of thine And the gift of chastity is not giuen to euery one that vvoulde haue it but to vvhome God vvill This therfore ought not to be giuen as a commauÌ„dement but they that are called thervnto by god ought to vse this as a councell Marforius Why then Origen much mistooke this matter in cutting away his instrumeÌ„t of generation Pasquine Without doubt he should better and more holily haue made him selfe chast if he had asswaged his hote desire with an honest wife of his owne For this thing God commaundeth vs and not the other Marforius But he should not haue bene chaste after that sorte Pasquine Nay rather he could not be chaste after the other sorte as Logitians define who cal not the Eunuches chast bicause they can do nothing But that he hauing a wife might also be chaste the booke of wisedome doth playnely dedeclare where he sayth O hovv faire is a chaste generation vvith vertue Lo he calleth chaste the generation of children And to y e Hebrues thus it is written Mariage is honourable among all men and the bed vndefiled but Fornicators adulterers God vvil iudge Marforius I woulde it were Gods will that thou mightest be a Preacher to the worlde but euen a fewe yeares then shoulde it not be halfe so blinde as it is Pasquine Such was Gods pleasure that those that haue bene delited with lyes and foolishe toyes should in lyes and foolishe toyes be drowned buried Marforius Sithe we are entered into this talke I woulde haue thée tell me what it is that hath deceyued so many great learned meÌ„ to set forth so carefully this virgintiy Pasquine A French Byshop full of great learning of great iudgement and of muche godlynesse opened myne eyes
the hearing of it Marforius That I can for I am redy to dye for very lust to heare it Pasquine Antichrist is so called by this effect bycause he is against Christ. But the name of this kingdome with the which as happy and fatherly he couereth the vnhappy name of Antichrist that he may the more safely deuour and slea Christes shepe this name I say is called the number of man by the Prophet in the newe Testament Marforius I vnderstand thée now lesse than I did before Pasquine â—ast thou not read in the Apocalips of the marke and of the name of the beast and of the number of man Marforius I haue some time heard men striue vpon that place and vpoÌ„ that whore clothed in Scarlet and droncke with the bloude of Sainctes whome they called the great whore and they sayd she had in hir hande a Cuppe of golde full of abhominations and hir filthy lustes and if I remember me well they called hir also Babilon the mother of the fornications of the earth But by cause I heard not the beginning of the disputation I could not vnderstand what that whore was Pasquin All this that thou hast sayd belongeth to Antichrist and to his kingdome which thinges thou shalt clearlie vnderstande by that time I shal haue declared vnto thée the name with the which that wicked person doth nothing else but sel him selfe to the worlde But hearken to this Marforius I am here al redy thereto Pasquine The letter of his name is P A the nuÌ„ber is P P A A. and the name is made by putting ech of those letters amids his two felowes For as Pythagoras Disciples say the number of man is double or two fould the which doth clearely appeare sith there are in the name contayned but two letters onely as thou haste séene in the number And albeit euery of those letters is twice formed they are not for all that any more than two figures of letters two sillables UnderstaÌ„dest thou it yet or no Marforius I vnderstande it very well for this name these letters come often in my way in the Canon lawe But beware Pasquine that thou seeke not to knowe to much thou shouldest doe better to beleue simply as I doe hauing bene so taught by a cunning Frier Pasquine What callest thou to beleue simply Marforius This not to labour to much in holy scripture and to leaue those thinges to the Diuines Pasquine That is to beleue ignorantly and not simply knowest thou not that place of the Gospell which sayth Search the Scriptures if thou beleue so Marforius thou deceiuest thy selfe fowlly for this is not simplicitie but rather a folishe and carelesse credulitie Marforius I will tell thée true I did beleue that simplicitie and ignorance were both one thing Pasquine Thou deceyuest thy selfe I say for there is a greater difference betwene them Simplieitie is not ignoraunce but a certaine clearenesse and singlenesse of minde whose contrary is doublenesse if thou know therfore what it is to be of a double minde thou shalt also vnderstande what it is to be of a single minde Marforius I knowe well what it is to be of a double minde for this often times happeneth vnto me but suche maner of simplicitie as thou speakest of I know not Pasquine I beleue iâ— well for you Canonistes can not be both subtile and simple together but would to God that your craftinesse might be turned into simplicitie for then should there not be among you so many disceytes wayes to entangle men in and suche deuises and delayes and there should be no maner disputing De Iure stricto largo but onely that which is iust and good shoulde raigne in you Marforius What is simplicitie then Pasquine Simplicitie is a vertue the which who so euer hath sheweth with the effectes what he is he is no hipocrite but in euery thing and in euery act is séene a great clearnesse and singlenesse and he is such that in him thou mayst trust any thing that thou hast for being sincere he doth sincerelie behaue him selfe Moreouer concerning the knowledge of thinges and their experience he wil haue a sincere and sure iudgement without any colour or disguising of Hipocrisie Marforius If the matter be so it must nedes be that the simple man be replenished not onely with great goodnesse but also with great learning iudgement together for these things are requisite to him that will diligently search and vnderstande the Scriptures Pasquine Thou sayest truth Marforius Then are there in these dayes many simple without simplicitie Pasquine It is true in these dayes and there is little godlinesse amongst Christen men they were in olde time simple those true Sainctes who * lacked not what to aunswere to the Iudges bycause they beleued simply and this beleuing simplye can not be without a very great stedfastnesse for this simplicitie hath alwayes wayes in company a certaine most firme constnancie of minde and about it a wall of brasse such as these be put on no visours nor strange garmentes but wil be knowen of euery man for y â— they be But this masking and disguising is neuer without some suspicien of deceite And what thinkest thou this saying meaneth be ye simple as Doues but that ye haue that singlenesse of mind that belongeth to a Christian and shewe the same in your couÌ„tenaunce in your maners in your apparell and in your workes as Doues doe the which faine not one thing and do an other as doe the Foxes but openlye shewe their naturall whitenesse and mildenesse in all their life Marforius Is there not then one Frier that is simple Pasquine As thou thinkest of theÌ„ they are al so but as I thinke there is not one so Marforius In very déede I did euer beleue till nowâ— that we must be simple that is to say ignorant doltish very Asses Pasquine Such opinion haue they had whome the shéepish foolishnesse of our time hath nouseled vp but I say to thée that the Christian should be very well learned wel exercised in his owne lawe for so shall he not be able to be moued by any maner argument being wel grounded vpon that sure stone whereas he that shall be ignorant shall be redy to fall into alherâ—sies and to al disceites for ignorance agreing with all thinges and lacking of iudgement at one instant taketh holde of truth of falshoode without making at any time any distinction at all And hereof are risen so may heresies and sectes among the christians For being ignorant they haue bene deceyued by crafty créepers most of all vnder the colour of Religion And therefore some folowing the rule of that man some of this man those other of an other man and not one there is that foloweth the rule of Christ the which
it whē y e newes therof was brought to Pope Iulie the seconde albeit this be also written in a faithfull story and yet escaped they not vnpunished therefore for foure of thē which were priuy to this and other so great sacrileges were burnt aliue And this was before y ◠Berne had the vnderstanding of the gospel But those Lords of Berne haue bene alwayes enimies to deceytés and to these knauish deuises whom if the Venetians would follow and not suffer so many false miracles and other deceytes of gredy Ipocrites as the body of saint Roch which is made of toawe and of Chaulke of so many Ladyes y ◠for gredinesse of gaine are made to worke myracles not only they but y ◠rest of Italy the other parts of Christendome would open their eyes and espy out so many so manifest deceytes that who so euer doth not finde them out is well worthy of all blame and shall in the ende be punished therefore of Christ. But to returne to the woundes of Camilla I haue heard say that being desired to supper by certaine Nonnes in the euening after supper when she should goe to bed she asked for a little Malmesey when a woman of the Monastery had giuen hir some being desirous to knowe what she would do with it she stoode and looked throughe a little hole of the dore and sawe that she cast the Malmesey droppe by droppe vpon hir hande and she groned but she coulde sée nothing else Marforius By like she did kepe those woundes open with this subtile deuise euen so wyth the same subtile deuise did make them at the first Pasquine I could say also of hir howe she entermedleth hir selfe with making of Mariages moued thereto for the zeale of hir pursse for she will be well payed Then vseth shée many other brybing fetches there are many presents sent vnto hir and she sendeth them couertly to sell she playeth the Phisitian and asketh this thing that thing to make Medicines withall then sendeth the things to sell as happened to a poore woman for a great many poundes of waxe And such one as thou hearest is shée and yet is accompted a most holy one Marforius God be he that prouide therefore for of men I sée not howe remedy may be hoped for But if there be nothing else to be sayde of this deuision or Quéere goe on forwarde Pasquine In the thirde streate were the confessours This was a great route and wonderfully out of frame full of rytes different customes Some had thrée Crownes some Myters some Hats some were shauen some couered faced some laie brothers in gray coates some blewe some redde some white some blacke some gray some hooded like the Scapuchines some of the order that Chietti made All had some sundry signe of Ipocrisie most of all those Chiettines Marforius What a thing is this that they euer speake of Christ and neuer séeke the honour of Christ but of them selues Pasquine I haue alwayes séene that these that haue Christ still in their mouthes neuer haue him in their heartes Marforius It is true But what made these men with so many sundry liueryes Pasquine I can not tell thée of certainty but for as much as I perceyued they were also in greate trouble Marforius And wherefore Pasquine Least they should be forsaken of their deuout Clients Marforius What is that I heare thée say why are these Gods afeard of men Pasquine If they be made and inuented by men wilte thou not that by them they may be also ouerthrowen of these Gods speaketh the Scripture where he sayth They are the vvorke of mens handes and therefore are they afeard Marforius Wherefore are they called Confessours Pasquine Bycause they haue spent al their whole life in hearing confessions and other mennes sinnes or in confessing them selues to other as commonly they do Marforius Thou laughest Pasquine Pasquine I laugh in dede but yet it followeth not but that I say the truth Marforius I thought they had bene called Confessours bycause they should confesse Christ with their tongues with their lyues and with their deathes Pasquine Thou art deceyued vnlesse thou wouldst say that to confesse y ◠the Pope is the head of the Church and that saluatiō is gotten by mannes merites is to confesse Christ. But that is not in the Crede or Simbole of the Apostles Marforius As farre as I can perceiue this is rather a denying of Christ than a confessing of him But me thinke thou makest a mocke of confession whiche is a thing very holy and necessary Pasquine Doe I make a mock of confession Nay I confesse my selfe very often tymes didst not thou say euen now that they are true cōfessours that confesse Christ and professe him with their words and with their déedes Marforius Yes and I thought that for this cause they had bene called confessours For of this confession I think our maister Christ spake when he sayd He that shal confesse me before men him vvill I also confesse before my father vvhich is in heauen And so let your light shine before men that they may see your good vvorkes and glorisie your father vvhich is in heauen But I aske thée of that other confession that is called Sacramentall and Auriculer which is made to man and of him is had the absolution of sinnes Pasquine I shoulde stande to long to aunswere thée to all that that thou demaundest me But of this I will in fewe words put thée out of doubt Thinkst thou that Christ was perfectly wise Marforius I beleue that he was most wise very wisedome it selfe Pasquine Thinkest thou that his doctrine was absolute and perfect Marforius I beleue it for he was God vnto whome can be ascribed none imperfection without great and heynous offence Pasquine Doth there wante any thing in his doctrine deliuered vnto vs by his Apostels Marforius Nothing that is necessary to liue well and to goe to euerlasting life Pasquine Syth he hath therfore made no maner mention of this eare confession it is not necessary for our blessed life Marforius This is it that I woulde so faine knowe for many affirme that it is allowed by Gods worde and many deny it Pasquine Thou must nedes knowe what thine owne doctour Panormitanus sayth concerning it to whom I am sure thou giuest credite Marforius He sayth playnely that such confession is not founde in all the holy scripture nor that the Greekes were therfore by our Churches neuer holdē as Heretiques who deny the same and wil none of it and yet doth the Pope condempne and holde him as an Heretique that refuseth and denieth it to be commaunded by Gods lawe Pasquine Oh maruell not at that for he condēneth also him that confesseth That christ is our onely Sauiour our onely redemer and our Aduocate thā the
those sacrifices did not take away sinnes and therfore were they so often renued for else there shuld haue bene an ende of their sacrifices as Paule sayth Marforius I vnderstand thée nowe but I knowe not to what ende thou speakest this Pasquine To what end thinkest thou that the Priestes and other of the olde lawe were instituted by God Marforius For sacrifices I thinke Pasquine Priests therefore were instituted for sacrifices and the sacrifices and the altares for sinnes Marforius So it séemeth to me Pasquine Take away therfore sinne thou shalt sée that there is no more priesthode aultare nor sacrifice For as much as Paul sheweth vs the reasoÌ„ therof by that which the holy ghost spake This is the Testament that I vvill make vvith you After those dayes I vvil giue my lavves into their hartes vvil vvrite theÌ„ in their mindes and vvil no more remember their vvickednesse Thus doth he conclude where as remission of sinnes is made there is no more oblation for sinnes and to shewe that we are true priestes he addeth exhorting vs. Sith vve haue therefore my brethren thorovv the bloude of Iesu libertie to enter into the holy place by the nevve and liuing vvay vvhich he hath prepared for vs throughe the vaile that is to say his flesh And seing vve haue an high priest vvhich is ruler ouer the house of God lette vs dravve nere vvith a true heart in a sure faith hauing our heartes vvashed and the euill conscience put avvay But as touching that thou hast sayd that our MassemuÌ„blers offer euery day Christ in their sacrifice to God thou art not able with any little authority of the Scripture to confirme it Nay rather is it against the Scripture and is deuised to the blasphemie of Christ and of his Sacrifice For it is wrtten to the Hebrues That vve are sanctisied by the offering vp of Christes body once onely done For he hauing offered one onely offering for sinnes is set dovvne for euer at the right hande of God and from hence forth tarieth till his enimies be made his fotestole for vvith one onelye oblation hath he made perfecte for euer those that are sanctified Wherefore there nedeth no more any other sacrifice to pourge sinnes For Christ to whome it was sayd Thou art a priest for euer hath once only sufficiently offered him self for our sinnes an euerlasting vnchaâ—geable perpetual offring sacrifice But these mates calling their Masse a sacrifice go about to shew that the sacrifice of Christ once onely done is not of perfection to washe away al sinnes The which howe great an offence howe great a blasphemie iniurie it is against the bloud of Christ all godly men doe knowe and not onely do they this outragious offence but they do also commit sacriledge these Massemumblers of ours who affirme that they offer Christ to God whom the father gaue to vs. And Christ sayde to Wall Take ye eate ye drinke ye of this all of ye And these for all that do the contrary and will séeme to be more rich than God sith they say that they giue that whiche they receyue or rather that they might receiue if they beleued the holy scriptures But the matter is far otherwise for they neyther giue nor receyue nothing they giue not for no man can giue that he hath not and that they haue not Christ by this it may be séene in that they haue not fayth the which only maketh of the heart of man the temple of Christ. And for the same cause can not they receyue Christ whiles he is offred vs. For with the only faith and assured stedfastnesse in y â— goodnesse of God and of the sacrifice of Christ Christ is to be receyued And if they can giue any thing they can giue the Diuel whoÌ„ they haue receyued euen as Iudas the traytour into whom Sathan entred when Christ offred him y â— piece of the mysticall breade But if thou haue any thing to say herevnto say on for I wil say nothing else Marforius What wouldest thou that I should say against so open testimonie of the Scripture Wilt thou haue the sicke man stryue with the Phisitian I haue taken this holsome drinke that thou hast giuen me and I hope that hauing well digested it in the bowels of my soule it will purge me and heale me not onely of this but of many other diseases But one doubt sticketh yet in my stomacke whether thou wâ—lte haue in the Church of Christ any orders or any holy factioÌ„ Pasquine I deny not nor refuse not my Marforius the ministerie of the Church nor any order that may be brought in by the Testimonie of the newe Testament For I learne by S. Paule that Christe hath giuen vnto his Church Some to be Apostles some Prophetes other to be Euangelistes other pastors and some teachers that the Saintes might haue all things necessary to vvorke minister vvithall to the edifying of the body of Christ till vve euery one in the vnitie of faith knovvledge of the sonne of God grovv vp to a perfect man after the measure of the age of the fulnesse of Christ. Mar. This must nedes be a very goodly order but I vnderstand it not very well Pasquine I will declare it vnto thée Apostles are those that beare the Gospel vnto dyuers people Nations Prophets are those y â— being inspired by the holy ghost do forwarne the Church of the things that are like to happen vnto hir Euangelistes are those that best are able to shewe forth and declare the Gospell and are good Oratours in Christian knowledge Pastours that also are called Byshops are those that haue the authority wel to gouerne the congregations and that féede their flockes with good example of life and with true doctrine are watchfull to vnderstande the maners and the lyues of their congregation and the names of eche of their shâ—pe Doctours are they that in the congregation teach good sciences whether they be holy or prophane And this is it that thou demaundest of me Albeit I doe not seperate from the body of Christ neyther Magistrates nor the duetye of good Princes nor any other offices of the Christian common weale which Paule him selfe in many places declareth But I haue declared to thée briefly these fiue principall offices Marforius But what sayest thou of Priestes Pasquine A Priest is as much to say as an Elder and they were the selfe same that the byshops were or Senatours of the church of no lesse respect for their age than for their godlinesse But yet were they neuer Sacrificers nor Massemumblers what soeuer our smeared shauelings prate thereof be they eyther the highest the lowest or the rude sorte of Sir Iohns Marforius I stande nowe hearkening that thou shouldst shew me what thou sawest in that Quéere of Priestes Pasquine I sawe
a shamefull and disordered rable of Priestes of whom some were Canonnes some Parsons some Chaplaines some Archedeacons some Archepriestes some Prouostes some Singlesoled priestes some Deacons some ChauÌ„ters and some of a thousande other sortes of names which haue bene founde out sith the name of a minyster through the pride of the wicked began to stinke as nothing honourable and yet too burthenous Mar. What were all they doing Pasq. They were consulting of their ryches of their tythes pensions Mar. What might be the cause therof Pasquin Bicause y â— pope demauÌ„ded y â— teÌ„thes of their benefices not once onely but euery yere once yea twice a yeare they were deuising meanes how to scrape home to theÌ„ selues by some other fine fetches all y â— which they were coÌ„strained to giue to y â— Pope There shuldst thou haue heard diuers opinions some there were y â— said that it was good couÌ„sel to deuide amoÌ„g theÌ„ selues y â— riches of their churches as Chalices PateÌ„s siluer plate the gay Copes other ornaments alleaging that if they did it not the sooner the Pope or the Turk or else the Lutherans would sone after do it sith they haue their weapons ready Here against spake certaine poore hedge Priestes doubting that they should not haue their part of the Pye and sayd that it should be much better for euery mans purpose if eche of them in his owne towne and Church would first shewe forth outwardly great holynesse in their church garmentes in their owne apparell in their countenaunce in their gestures and aboue all things in Massing deuoutly and to attend diligently to all their outward ceremonies And that done that eche of them finde out some goodly Image or of the bones of some deade man and some newe Reliques or to make some drops of bloud come oute of a crucifixe or of some other Image or else to make the Uirgin Mary wéepe or finde some of hir milke or say that their God leapeth and is in form of a childe or else say that they haue séene straunge and wonderfull things in their Massing or haue sene some strauÌ„ge vision or to faine some other prety feate affirming this to be the way to cause them to be reuerenced and obeyed of the people to recouer that reputation which for their abhominable naughtinesse they haue lost and not onely to mainteyne but also to encrease their ryches But such as most commende this deuise were of the Ipocritish order instituted by Cardinall Chietti Marforius I remember that I heard while he dwelled in Venice that he had set vp a newe secte of Priestes founded altogether in Ipocriste and outward shewe of holinesse whereof it is come to passe that all Ipocrites are called Chiettines the which secte he forsooke as sone as he had caught that he fished for for he had lefte his Bishopricke that he might get him a Cardinals Hatte as Arettine sayde Forthwith therfore as his deuise came about he came flinging hither to infect the Court of Rome with his Ipocrisie Pasquine Diddest thou neuer heare how he aunswered his Priestes at his departing from Venice when they asked him whither he wente Marforius No I heard it neuer Pasquine Whither I go quoth he thither can you not come meaning that he lefte them in pouerty and in their filthinesse and that he wente to Rome to that great dignitye as to his owne heauen Marforius He vsed the words of christ to good purpose vile Uarlet that he was Pasquine In such like sorte do they interprete the scriptures all the packe of them and so by abusing it find they out Purgatoryes Popes powers all other reasons for their defence But let vs come to the Quéere of the Patriarches and Prophets Marforius Mary I besech thee heartily say on Whether there were in that place the .xij. sonnes of Iacob for they were all called Patriarches Pasquine No but those that I sawe were of the newe Testament Marforius Why are there also Patriarches of the new Testament Pasquine To tel thée the very truth Marforius the Patriarches of the newe Testament are none other than Popes Cardinals Friers Priestes and such lyke of whom thou shalte not finde one iote in the holy Scripture But our forefathers who were the deuisers of this so great a misterie of iniquity and of deceyte to the end other should not perceyue that they altogether played the Iewes caryed not the Patriarches of the olde Testamente into the newe but into their owne Sinagoge Marforius And who are these Pasquine There are two sortes of Patriarches of the one sort are the Patriarches of the foure Regions that is to say that of Rome of Antioch Alexandria and of Ierusalem And the seate of the Empire being afterwarde remoued to Constantinople to the rest of the â—atriarches was adioyned he of CoÌ„stanstinople and afterwarde other as that of Aquiligia and that of Venice And they haue â—btayned this degrée bycause they are heades and rulers of other Byshops as they also are Byshops them selues There was an other sorte of Patriarches who had no maner superioritye or dignity of the Patriarchâ—ships while they were aliue Marforius Why and are they made Patriarches when they be deade Pasquine Yea out of doubt euen as Saint Peter was made Pope after his death which neuer was nor neuer could be nor yet was he at any time in Rome And euen so was Saint Ierome made a Cardinall Among these Patriarches are accopmted Saint Iohn Baptist Saint Dominicke who instituted the order of breaching I would say preaching Friers and Saint Fraunces the order of Friers Minores or vnderminers Marforius Why are they called Patriarches Pasquine Bycause they are the chiefe of the Fathers and the deuisers of sectes that is to say of the Friers who call them selues Fathers Marforius Why then by this reason euery order and house of Friers may call his Authour or fouÌ„der Patriarch Pasquine That they may but these Families of Friers haue bene more ambitious than the rest Marforius Sawest thou there Dominicke and Fraunces Pasquine I sawe them but in other apparell than they were in the Quéere of the Friers for there were they both cladde like shepeheardes with a wéede of rough course cloth and in the middes thereof a hole to thrust out their heades and a hoode made fast thereto to kepe them from the raine and from colde for so were the shepeheardes of Italy and Spaine wont to be clad But here I sawe them in Pontificall apparell and with Crownes on their heades Marforius Two things there are that make me muche maruell the one is that I sée their successours and followers go clad in so fine clothes and to be so lofty and proude the other is how it is possible that they may be in two places at once here among the Friers Pasquine Thou must not maruel
Quod Petrus nuÌ„quam Romae fuit To which author I referre thée bicause I will be briefe Marforius I will séeke to haue it as soone as I can and wil reade it ouer But what sayde the Patriarche of Alexandria Pasquine And he also alleaged reasons and shewed that foras much as he is nere to Babylon and that Babylon hath bene alwayes the head of all abhomination and bicause Babylon is the greatest of all other Cities it was good reason that he shoulde be the head and so much the more that if Rome woulde so fayne be the head it must needs be called Babylon as in Petrarke the Poet is to be séene who had learned the same in the schoolehouse of Saint Iohn the Euangelist Marforius By my fayth he sayde not amisse in his kinde But let vs speake a little of the Prophets sawest thou Esay Ieremie Daniell and the rest Pasquine Not one of them but the sonnes of Balaam who loued the rewarde of iniquitie and was therefore reproued by the Asse Marforius Are there no Prophetes in the newe Testamente Pasquine Yes that there are Doest not thou remember that heretofore we reckned the Prophetes among the offices of the Church of Christ for I meane nothing of the olde Prophets but of those that haue followed and yet doe the way of false Prophetes and of such as haue prophecied for rewarde But thou muste learne that these wordes Prophete prophecie signifie two things the one is he that by diuine inspiration foretelleth thinges to come and discouereth such things as are hidden and that can not be knowne by mans witte or cunning these are called Prophets and séers This worde Prophete also signifieth a Doctor or teacher not euerye Doctor but him that is sente by God to instructe the Churche and to reforme it being better repleâ—ished inwardly in spirit thaÌ„ furnished with worldly knowledge and in this poynt is the Prophet different from him that is but simply a Doctor for the Prophet teacheth onely heauenly things and the Doctor embraceth also humaine sciences and the artes liberal the Doctor may teache those things which he hath learned out of bookes and at the mouth of men But the Prophete must be inspired of God and instructed in the hard meanings of the scriptures the better to expound them In this Heauen sawe I both sortes of Prophetes sauing that neyther those that fortolde things to come nor those that taught religion to the Church were not inspired by God nor by the spirite of Christ but by the Prince of darknesse and the spirite of Sathan And they that foretolde the thinges to come were Wysardes Southsayers Sorcerers Enchanters Negromancers Astrologiens and such as followe the damnable art Magique among the which there were Popes Cardynalles Byshops Abbottes and all sortes of Friers but moste chiefely the Friers of Saint Dominick and Saint Fraunces who with socery witchcrafte the which they chieflye apply learne euill and deuilish artes Marforius This thing is moste true for a man maye read that Siluester the seconde gatte to be Pope by the helpe of the Diuell with this condition that after his death he shoulde be wholly the Diuels owne And in our dayes Paule the third called Pope Farne se or Fransie whether ye will in Astrologie and diuination hath not left his lyke behinde him Pasquine It is no lye at all and therfore bicause he woulde haue a companion in this arte he made Denis a Frier of the order called Serui a Cardinall And this Paule chalengeth the praise of this art wholly to himselfe and by good reason is it due to him for in this arte he hath spente al his lyfe But a man can not say whether by this his art he could tell aforehand what would come to passe when he sente to wake the waspes of Germanie that were on sléepe Marforius I beleue right well that in this poynt he is yet still wyde and deceyued in his Almanacke which he accompteth his Gospell Pasquine Thinkest thou then that by his art he can tell whether he must goe when he is dead Marforius I do not beleue that he thinketh therevpon for he in Rome it is certainely sayde that he beleueth that the soule is mortall and I in his talke haue ofte tymes perceyued it Pasquine Yet dothe not Peter Levves his sonne doubte that the soule is immortall Marforius Yet yea no more than the Epicures and the Saduce is and his Father and also Cardinall Chietti al his whole lyfe doth witnesse Pasquine Iust eueÌ„ so and sithe we are nowe come to talke of Cardinall Chietti me thinketh he is well worthye to be numbred among the Prophets of this heauen Marforius And for what occasion Pasquine I will tell thée the whole matter A Gentleman of Venice fel in contention with his wyfe vpon a certayne doubte to be declared in foro conscientiae the matter was suche as troubled them both the woman being more curious than the man as women lightly haue spiced consciences was the first that would be cleared of this doubt she goeth to the Church of these Chiettâ—ines and there confesseth hir selfe to one of them that was a subtill Ipocrite openeth all the matter and prayeth him to resolue her of this doubt he did as well as he could then goeth he to the Arch Ipocrite Chietti himself and openeth to him the whole confession as it is the olde vse of so many as be Chiettines when he had wel vnderstode it he commaunded him to be secrete and finding out the resolution thereof in the Canon law marked the place and taried til this gentleman came vnto him who was wonte to come for like matters to him very often the morowe after he came and being alone with Chietti after foure or fiue words wheÌ„ he was comming to his demaund that did so burthen his conscience Chietti commaunded him to holde his peace tooke him by the hande put his hande into the booke and shut it fast in the place which he before had marked for that purpose and then byd him tell his tale and when he had ended this Coll Prophete Chietti sayd to him looke there where you haue your hande the Gentleman opened the booke reade and founde that he sought for and not thinking that any other creature had knowne it but his wyâ—e forthwith fell downe on his knées and worshipped him as it had bene an other Christ that had knowne the secretes of mens hearts Marforius I know a thousande other such trickes of blinde prophecies whereby learning the secretes of simple siely soules they shewe thereby themselues so be Prophets For the great profite therfore which they get thereby do they with suche rage séeke to mayntayne this confession Pasquine If thou knowe a thousande I knowe ten thousande But bicause there is at this present other matter to talke of we will retourne to speake of these
the lâ—uer of regeneration which is sufficiently shed vpon vs. But tell me this Purgatory was it before the incarnation of Christ or since onelye Marforius In good fayth I can not aunswere thée for if I saye since Christ onely I should be brought to shew that Christ hath bene a cruell exactour and not a gentle Redemer the whiche should be a moste horrible blasphemie And if I saye that it was from the begynning of the world I haue no place at al in the auncient scripture to proue it Moses in his booke Leuiticus Hath described so manye sacrifices oblations washings purgings for the sinnes of the lyuing but he speaketh not one iote of the deade nor of this purgatorie naye rather doth he forbid the priestes to stande and wéepe and lament the dead as doth also Saint Paule to the Thessalonians Pasquine Therfore is there no maner of certayntie of this Purgatorie throughout all the Scripture for the Scripture is cleane against it as maye be séene in this text of the Apocalipse Blessed are the deade that dye in the Lorde Therefore must it néedes be that whosoeuer dyeth eyther dieth in the Lorde or not if he die in the Lord he must néedes be by this testimonie blessed but if he dye not in the Lorde he must néedes be accursed for there are but two wayes Marforius Distinguo sic Quantum ad poenam nego sed quantum ad culpaÌ„ concedo Pasquine What meanest thou by this beggerly Sophistrie Marforius I meane that God pardoneth the offence but not the punishment Pasquin O what great folishnesse art thou in and where findest thou that God pardoneth the one without the other The workes of God are perfect he pardoneth all or else nothing without mangling or cutting of his frée gift as witnesseth Ezechiell where he sayeth What tyme soeuer a sinner vvyll repent hym of hys sinnes I vvill no more remember any of his iniquities sayeth the Lorde And Saint Iohn sayeth If vve confesse our sinnes he is faithfull and iust to pardon vs and make vs cleane from all vvickednesse and if vve vvalke in the light euen as he is light vve haue fellovvship with him and the bloud of his sonne Iesus Christ doth cleanse vs from al sinne for he sitteth on the right hande of God making intercession for sinnes and by one onely oblation hath he made perfect for euer those that are sanctifieth More ouer the Psalme sayeth I haue confessed my sinne vnto thee and haue not hidden myne vnrighteousnesse I sayde I vvill knovvledge myne offence and accuse my selfe vnto the Lorde and thou hast forgiuen the vvickednesse of my sinne If therfore the Lorde forgiue vs all our sinnes when we pray earnestly to him for it we can be no more troubled for them for they are forgiuen vs for the faythes sake that we haue in the death and passion of Iesus Christ the which is eyther perfect or vnperfect If it be perfect there nedeth none other thing to make it more perfect but to say that it is vnperfect is to blaspheme Iesus Christ and his passion as doe these monstrous soule Merchaunts which will haue them to make satisfaction for their sinnes in the fyre of Purgatorie Marforius Dauid sinned and his sinnes were forgiuen concerning the offence but not concerning the punishment due for the offence for he remayned for all that bound to one of those thrée plagues that were offered vnto him Pasquine And I tell thée that God eyther pardoneth all or else nothing for he that forgiueth the greater will not stricke to forgiue the lesser it is a more matter to forgiue the offence than the punishment If therfore he forgiue y â— offence he reserueth not the punishment But to kéepe vs vnder here in this world and to exercise vs in pacience and to make vs knowe his mighty power he leaueth vs ofte tymes in troubles so doth he also those that haue not offended as we sée in Iob and Ieremy and many others For as Saint Paule sayeth Tribulation bringeth forth Patience and patience bringeth forth proufe proufe bringeth forth hope and hope is not confounded And euen so albeit God had forgiuen Dauid both the offence and the punishment yet woulde he bring him lowe and try him that the worlde might knowe howe full of fayth he was The punishment therefore is not it that purgeth our sinnes but faith the which Saint Paule sayeth is the purging of sinnes And so if they will haue anye other purgatorie than the bloude of Christ it is none other but to make his passion of none effect and to saye that his workes are vnperfect This is plaine that al the elect are members of Christ and if they be his members it followeth that his vertue and the infinite merits of his passion be common vnto them whereby they are assoyled from all punishment and consequently from purgatorie And Saint Iohn sayeth That they that beleue in Christ are the Sonnes of God and heyres of the inheritaunce that is gyuen them by promise and not by workes What néede haue we therefore of this Purgatorie to gyue vs that inheritaunce Oh Lorde streatch forth the arme of thy mighty power destroy and bring to naught these false Prophets Seducers and Ipocrites y â— deceyue thy people with Trentals and Quarentals and other foolishe inuentions full of all couetousnesse But to sée plainlye with thine eye the vncertayne holde that this Purgatorye standeth on albeit that whiche I haue already alleaged vnto thée might suffice thée heare what Salamon sayth If the tree fal tovvard the South or tovvard the North vvhere he falleth there it abydeth To fall towarde the South is to dye in fayth and towarde the Northe without fayth he therefore that dyeth in fayth hath euerlasting lyfe and he that dyeth without fayth hath dampnation here is no maner of meane or middle place where to fall betwene these two Marforius Why hath this Purgatory in very dede no maner of foundation in the Scripture Pasquine None at aâ— Marforius Where haue they founde it then Pasquine Among the blinde beggers of Hildibrand the Sorcerer afterward called Gregorie the seuenth glosing vpon that place of Virgil. Centum erant annos or else in Plato in his Timèo or else in Macrobius in the dreame of Scipio or els among the false miracles visions and illusions wrought by Sathan transforming him selfe into an aungell of lyght For albeit all true Angels of heauen should tel vs any other thing then y â— which is in y â— word of god let him be accursed But if there were such a Purgatory how much were the Apostles worthy to be blamed that haue not spoken one worde thereof Saint Peter wryteth fully to the instruction of the Churches yet maketh he no maner mention of the deade Saint Iames who commendeth so much good workes maketh no
furthermore I would fayne know of thée what he is that can at any tyme make god amendes for his sinnes truely not one for we sée that Christ is become our righteousnesse bycause that by our owne righteousnesse we could not be saued If it had bene possible for vs to haue gone vp to heauen it should not haue bene nedeful for Christ to haue come downe into the earth And if we must for the purging of our sinnes be boyled in Purgatory what good doth Christes passion vnto vs Howe are we then saued by grace as all the whole scripture testifieth how go we to the father by Christ onelye as he him selfe affirmeth Doest thou not sée how great a blasphemie this is against Iesus Christ to say that with the boiling in Purgatory that thing is done which Iesus Christ onely wrought as these murtherers say wherein they are much like the Ceretanes who the better to sell their Poticary ware say that there is a great plague comming but they haue the remedy therof and they swere and stare that they haue proued the same a thousand times Euen so haue these marked Monsters deuised their Purgatory and then they say that the remedy thereof is their Masses their almesse their prayers and Pilgrimages as a man may sée in the decrée of their owne handyworke and al this is for the welth of their kitchin They find out great sweetenesse in their Masses that are payde for which ready money and their great ruinesse lefte vnto their Monasteries to pray for the soules of them that bequeth them Oh what good doe their prayers their fastings their recomendation of soules theire seauen Psalmes their Dirige by note and their De profundis ouer the graue They pray stil for those that be dead for those I meane that paye swéetely for otherwise there is not a worde and if there be a pore man that hath nought to pay he must séeke some money yea though he burst his heart for it for they say Est ad pias causas Oh cormoraunt theues God once destroy you for the health of the pore séely ones Marforius Upon that other place also of Saint Mathewe they grounde this their deuise where he sayeth That vvhosoeuer shall speake a vvorde against the sonne of man it shal be forgiuen him but he that speaketh against the holy ghost shall not be forgiuen neyther in this vvorlde nor in the vvorlde to come Nowe if there be forgiuenesse in the worlde to come it can not be sayde that it is in heauen for vp thither entreth no sinne nor in hell it can not be for there is no redeÌ„ption it followeth therfore that there is an other place where sinne is forgiuen and that is Purgatorie how answerest thou to this Pasquine I answere that this saying neyther in this worlde nor in the worlde to come is as much to say as neuer as may be sene in the Apocalipse where he sayeth that those beasts had no reast neyther daye nor night which is nothing else to say but that they neuer rested Marforius I giue great credite to thy saying yet Pasquine What meanest thou by yet I tell thée that those wordes are as muche to say as neuer worlde without ende doest thou not beleue Saint Marke Marforius Yes marye doe I beleue him Pasquine Reade therefore this selfe same text in Saint Marke and thou shalt finde that he sayeth that the sinne against the holy ghost shall neuer be forgiuen Marforius Sayeth he playnely neuer Pasquine He sayeth most playnely thus He that speaketh against the holy Ghost shall neuer be forgiuen but shal be giltie of euerlasting iudgement Wilte thou haue a more playner saying Go looke in the thirde chapter thou shalt finde it as I tell thée Marforius Oh theues you Priestes Oh Traytours deceyuers and murtherers from henceforwarde I will not beleue them if they say their Pater noster Pasquine Saint Luke also affirmeth the same saying flatly that he shall not be forgiuen Beholde therefore how well they interprete the Scriptures Marforius I am already at a point with them but thou shalt do me great pleasure to expounde also vnto me certaine other places vpon the which they grounde this deceyte one is in the first Epistle to the Corinthians where he sayeth If anye man builde vpon this foundation Golde Siluer Precious stones Tymber Hay or stouble euerye mans vvorke shall appere for the daye shall declare it and it shall be shevved in fyre and the fyre shall trye euery mans vvorke vvhat it is If anye mans vvorke that he hath built vpon do abyde he shall receyue a revvarde if anye mans vvorke burne he shall suffer losse but he shall be safe himselfe Neuerthelesse yet as it were throughe fyre Here a man maye sée that in this place the Apostle speaketh of fyre Pasquine Thinkest thou therfore that he meaneth in this place materiall fyre he speaketh by a Metaphor or figure for by fyre here in this text are meant troubles afflictions temptations and perilles of death as is to be seene in that psalme of Dauid which saith Thou hast tryed me with fyre which is nothing else to say but with troubles for a man shall neuer reade that Dauid was at any tyme in materiall fyre And in an other place we haue passed throughe fyre and water and thou haste brought vs to a resting place Saint Peter also in y â— first chapter of his first Epistle sayth euen the same so doth also Esay and the other prophetes and euen so doth Saint Paule And bicause thou shalt well vnderstande this péece of Scripture I say to thée that to builde is as muche to say as to preache Gods worde the foundation is Christ the worke built therevpon are those that haue receyued the worde the fyre is temptation and persecution iustlye sent by God the Golde Syluer and precious stones are they that haue in suche sorte receyued the fayth of Christ that they will rather dye then denie him the tymber hay and stouble are those that beleue for a tyme and make a shewe as thoughe they did beleue but if they féele afterwarde any persecution or affliction they forsake Christ and bring forth no fruite bicause they haue no roote This is the true meaning of the Apostle and of Saint Ierome vpon Ezechiell the thirde Chapter If therfore the preacher of the truth hath wholly builte any man vpon Christ so that perscutions doe none otherwise to him then doth the fyre to the golde siluer and precious stones it is a signe that he hath faithfully administred the worde and built strongly when his hearers are more ready to léese their lyfe than their faith but if anye man doe so coldly handle the worde of God that hys hearers féeling the persecution doe denie their fayth they shall be consumed by persecution as tymber hay and stouble are conâ—umed
vnderstande are infinite albeit for his notorious worthynesse he shall be called Antechrist that shall be worsse than al the rest and al the Popes state put them all together yet will he say that Antechrist must come as Gregorie sayde It is true that there haue bene dyuers Gregories and it may be that some one of them hath bene good and honest but all such as haue bene Popes are in the lake that burneth with fyre and brimstone in the bottomelesse pit They that were the first were lesse wicked but sithens haue they growen worsse and worsse and the last shal be y â— worst of all and I thinke that shall be the Cardinall Chietti except the dutch Launceknights come into Italic before and so make Pope Paule the thirde to be the last Marforius And yet perhappes they wyll not be taken for the verye maisters or heads for they call themselues Serui seruorum Dei and Prouidentia diuina Papa P. tertius and a number of such gaye glistering titles they outwardly shewe Pasquine This was the cause wherefore Christ sayde that outwardely they should be like shéepe but inwardly they shoulde be Wolues and Saint Paule sayeth that they shall haue a shewe of Godlynesse but in effectes they shall be quite voyde of it And marke well whether they be made Popes by Gods diuine prouidence or no when there was a woman once made Pope they are made in déede by the prouidence of the Diuel and not of God for Gods prouidence knoweth well ynough men from women and hath made one onely highe Bishop which is Christ. Marforius Sawest thou that she Pope Pasquine Yea mary did I sée hir Marforius And what canst thou tell me of hir Pasquine Thou must vnderstande that those thinges that in this worlde are in greatest highnesse greatest felicitie and greatest glorie there beneath are in so much the more basenesse wretchednesse and shame the Popes therefore that in this worlde coulde not satisfie their hungry and gréedy desire of honor being in the estate of Kings and Princes but woulde be estéemed aboue al other men and aboue great Lords and being not contented with this haue lift vp themselues aboue the gospel and made themselues Gods in earth in how great déepenesse of miserie they are their beneath passeth all mens imagination And they are therefore so muche the more cruelly tormented than other as that they haue bene the greatest occasion of the losse of so many people Thou mightest there haue séene them with Myters of glowing brimstone on their heads their other ornaments of their body all of glowing Brimstone with their Chaires of glowing Brimstone and they haue about them as seruaunts woes and Diuels and before them haue they infinite hostes of those gracelesse people that following their wicked steppes are drowned with them in euerlasting miseries al which of them doe nothing else but cursse them and ban them And before this shée Pope stande all those Rascalles and séely fooles that sith her tyme haue beleued in the Popes authoritie and their are they cast in y â— téeth with it and cursed by the Deuils themselues for that after so manifest a token giuen by her from God to the worlde as that they shoulde not meddle with Popes woulde they yet néedes beleue them and follow their curssed wayes Marforius And haue Popes then euen in hell seruantes to waite vpon them Pasquine Yea suche maner ones as I tolde thée of before Marforius Wherein doe they any seruice vnto them Pasquine To torment them euerlastingly Marforius What torments vsed they to them Pasquine To go about to shew the torments of those that be dampned shoulde be euen muche as to tell thée howe manye graynes of sande are in the sea and thou agayne to stande to heare them wouldest be so stricken with feare that thou wouldest not any more giue eare vnto me But let thys suffice thée to knowe also that which Saint Iohn telleth thée that is to were that they are tormented with fyre and brimstone for euer and euer TheÌ„ saw I in sundry places diuers Arches of triumph or Pageaunts as we may cal them One was of Boniface the eyght of that name for that goodly decree he made that euerye worldly creature shoulde be obedient to the Pope as they wil be saued And therein was grauen that decrée in euerye point as it standeth sauing the laste worde which is As they wil be dampned an other there was of Hildebrande the Sorcerer which afterwarde was Pope Gregorie the seauenth for his many and sundry new deuises throughe the which so manye seely wretches are gone headlong to the Diuell and bicause also he did so malapertly stande against the great Princes of the worlde as Boniface and many other and almost all of them haue done An other there was of Alexander Borgias in the which beside his other notable and famous factes was grauen also that worthy and holy acte of his to lye with his owne naturall daughter Lucrece with whome also Duke Valentine his brother lay An other there was of Iulius the seconde full of horrible bloudsheddings and adulteries Another there was of Leo the tenth in the which a man might sée how the tributes of y â— great cities of Sodome Gomorre were brought vnto him And yet was there one much fayrer y â— was preparing for Peter Levves some to Pope Paule y â— third and one for his father also Mar. And of y â— great princes of y â— worlde whom sawest thou Pasquine The greater part and within a fewe of all Marforius What is the cause that so many of them be dampned Pasquine The causes are many but the principall cause is that for as muche as they haue receyued their powers and dominions froÌ„ God as the Scripture sayeth By me Kings doe raigne c. There is no power but of god the powers that are are ordeyned of God c. He it is that maketh the wicked to rule for the sinnes of the people This haue not they acknowledged froÌ„ God nor haue with their good example and good gouernement kept their people in the feare of God nay thinking rather that they did highe seruice to God haue slayne suche as defend the Gospell and the honor of Christ. Whereas they ought rather to haue abolished all the sundry seâ—es of Friers all Idolatries the carcasses and bones of the dead such as they call Saints in the which they put all their religion and should rather haue regarde and care to honest maydens to the poore olde sicke and impotent persones relieuing them with that infinite richesse that vniustely and wickedly are possessed by the smered swarme of shauelings and ought to suffer or rather to cause Iesus Christ to be preached But they doe contrarywise persecute and suffer to be persecuted such as preach him and worsse do those of these dayes than those of foretymes for
whore wyth whom the Kings of the earth haue committed fornication and with whose cuppe of hir abhomination all nations are dronke as the Apocalipse sayth 27 Whether the Pope be that litle horne that hath eyes and a mouth speaking great things that Daniel speaketh of 28 Whether the Pope being Antechrist maye be Christes Uâ—are 29 Whether Monkes Fryers and all the rest of the polleshorne Papists be those marchants of whom the Apocalipse speaketh 30 Whether the Popes Sea and the Courte of Rome which is so defiled with al maner of filthinesse may be called Babylon 31 Whether a man maye beleue that the Pope meaneth or can call a godly and frée generall Councell in the whiche so great an ouerflowing of euilles and mischiefes as he himselfe hath brought vpon the worlde may lawfully be purged 32 Whether Pope P. who is reported to be most couetous doe at any tyme thinke of God sith Christ sayth Where your treasure is there is your hart also 33 Whether the Pope that is guilty of heresie Idolatry and blasphemie may be heade and Iudge ouer a Councell 34 Whether Peter Luis the Popes sonne whom all men say to be a moste filthy Sodomite be worthy to be chiefe Champion and capitaine of the Church 35 Whether it be expedient for the Christian common weale to take awaye from the Pope his kingdomes dominions that thereby it may be sene whether he will returne to the auncieÌ„t office of the church 36 Whether the Pope would haue Germany yea rather all the worlde destroyed by warres than that his tyranny power should be any whit diminished 37 Whether it may be doubted that the Papaâ—â—â— and y â— great beast will not shortly haue an ouerthrow as the Scripture sayth sith long sithens Boheme and almoste all Germany all Denmarke Englande and Scotlande haue fallen from hir and secretly France and Italy 38 Whether the Frenche king haue iust cause to forbidde that no more money henceforward be caried to Rome sith Popes haue in tymes past being furnished with the ryches and armure of Fraunce made warre vpon the Frenche 39 Whether the Pope dispensing all things for money may be called Pope penny Father and therefore be suspected of Couetousnesse 40 Whether there maye be any hope of goodnesse conceyued of the Popes recouerie and of his sworne shauelings sith Christ denyeth that blasphemers and suche as withstande the truth against their consciences can be healed 41 Whether the primacie of the Popes sée be lawfully come by sith it was gotten of Phocas the Emperor who was a murtherer secretely and with great treason slewe the Emperour Mauritius his Lorde 42 Whether the Pope Cardinals and Bishops be or ought to be called Christes spouse sith they kéepe at home so many whores and boyes 43 Whether if Christ were in these dayes among the Papistes he should be crucified againe as he was by the Scribes and Pharisies 44 Whether that Pope that made the decretall De duobus luminaribus magnis be to be compared with them that built the Towre of Babilon 45 Whether Pope Innoceâ—t the eyght that was vtterly ignoraunt and vnlearned might be dispensed with to say masse 46 Whether Pope Iulius the seconde who was a warriour did playnely shewe that Antechrist was already come and that it néeded not any longer to looke for him 47 Whether Pope Lyon the tenth a verye Sardanapalus might be compared with the riche glutton 48 Whether Pope Clement the seauenth who was the match to kindle the fyre of warres betwéene Princes filled vp the measure of his forefathers 49 Whether Pope Paule the thirde who wholly was giuen to Necromancie may be excommunicate 50 Whether it be to be beleued first that the Pope wisheth from his heart y e concorde of Princes sithens his foregoers were euer the beginners of warres Then if â—he wishe it whether it be for the common weale sake or for his owne priuate cause Lastly whether peace made by his request maye eyther be of any continuance or else haue any good successe For that Christ sayeth that an euyll tree can bring forthe no good fruites 51 Whether the Popes purpose when he séemeth to goe about to reconcile Princes be lyke vnto that counsell which the Diuell put into Pilates wyues minde and that was not bicause the death and torments of Christ did anye whit grieue hir but bicause she sawe that hir kingdome and tirannie suffered violence and suche hurt as coulde not be recouered 52 Whether the ende of this alteration of our tyme can be anye other than sorowfull horrible and lamentable â—ithe the filthinesse of the Antechristian and Popish kingdome is so terrible and incomprehensible and the obstinacie so outragious as can not be spoken 53 Whether the writings of Sadoletus and other that hytherto haue valiauntly defended the Popishe church be to be accompted suspect sith now they suffer honors and dignities to be giuen by the Pope whether they will or no. 54 Whether the Pope that nowe at the last hath graunted a legate to Fraunce coulde wel skill of that which was wont to be sayde that is to saye Of two euils that is to meane the Patriarch and the Legate the least is to be chosen 55 Whether the Pope if he knewe that it woulde come to passe that the Emperour and the French king woulde not ioyne their forces togither and help him against the Protestaunts that he woulde once speake of peace or of a generall counsell 56 Whether it may be confessed that God for our wickednesse and ingratitude is not highely offended with vs sithe we sée all our counsels and deuises haue so euil successe and warre to arise in an others necke one mischiefe after an other and all our purposes vpon y e sodaine to quaile so to be eftsones confounded with newe lettes that we cannot sée which ende to begin at 57 Whether that kings and Princes who albeit in this moste cleare light in these dayes can not but néedes knowe Antechrist and yet doe not onely dissemble but also séeke by all wayes meanes to pleasure him and be at the becke of so open an enimy to the truth ought to feare y â— as in time past God tooke from many Kings both their kingdome and people so he will therefore deale with them 58 Whether it be to be beleued that Monkes and Fryers doe purpose or can finde out a true and godly reformation as long as to their counsels and deliberations they admit suche as for many causes are the Popes owne dearelings and that they will rather suffer any thing than eyther to léese any iote of their riches and commodities or else to haue their wickednesse and knauerie discouered 59 Whether the Pope who by Cardinall Contarine at Ratisbona after long contention in matters of religion willed that all things shoulde be referred to a generall Counsell And when the Princes of the Empire determined to haue a Nationall Counsell if the same general
in this poynt that thou nowe demaundest saying that very many errours are sprong vp by the deceytfulnesse of such as to curiouslye sifte the scriptures who finding in the same some one thing in especiall or that particulerly hath bene commaunded to one man haue gone aboute to make it generall as this If thou vvilt be perfect goe and sell all that thou hast and giue it to the poore Here Christ speaketh to that yong man that boasted that he had alwayes kept the commaundements and gyueth this lesson particulerly to him to beate downe â—lat his presumption in that he sayde he had alwayes kept the commaundements of God And it is no generall precept for Christ denyeth not but that a man may serue God hauing ryches for a man may sée in the olde Testament that infinite Patriarkes and Kinges and other seruaunts of God were excéeding ryche Likewise where Saint Paule sayth to the Corinthians not commaunding but saying his aduise and speaking condicionally That it is good for a maÌ„ for the present necessity to be vvithout a vvife These men haue made this place generall and yet Saint Paule sayth for the present necessity bycause that theÌ„ the Christians were dryuen to and fro and if they had wyues and children they had more greater charge to cary aboute after them than if they were vnmaryed And thus sayth he bycause of y â— afflictions of the flâ—sh and the persecutions of those tymes and not for any other cause And therefore sayde he afterward that he spake for their profite not to tangle theÌ„ in a snare Many other places there are in the Scripture which albeit they be most speciall these fellowes haue gone about to make most generall And euen so is it of virginitie the which being a gifte graunted to very fâ—we by especiall priuiledge from â—od they notwithstanding haue sought to haue it of euery man as a thing generall bycause they are not of capacitie to vnderstande that saying as Christ spake it â—ut these precepts are particuler as that was of Abraham to kyll his sonne And as it shouâ—e be a great absurditie to go about to make that precept generall euen so is it no lesse absurditie to commaund and commende this other also Marforius This discourse of thy â—yshop pleaseth me very well he is â—arre differâ—nt from the Duncysh Sorbones of Paris who say if they had saint Paule in their handes they would burne him I perceyue that the light of Gods truth burneth in y â— heart of this Bishop But sawest thou there neuer a widow was there not Iudith of Sarepta * Anne the Prophetesse that so openly confessed Christ in Saint Lukes Gospell nor that other that †offered the two Mytes and was therfore so much coÌ„mended of Christ Pasquine There was none of all these there for they as it was tolde me were in the other heauen But in this heauen were some that none durst be so bolde to name them and they were of those that saint Paule calleth idle euer babling busy bodyes and speaking things which are not comely Marforius And why are they in this heauen Pasquine The Aungell tolde me bycause some of them had founded Monasteries and erected sundry sectes and enryched the places and became Nonnes and especiallye Englishe women Hungarians Dutch women and Frenche women Of Italians and Spanyardes there were very fewe Albeit there be in our dayes of countrey women of Italy that for superstition séeke to passe those of olde tyme. Marforius Who be these Pasquine Thou must nedes haue hearde speaking of them for that they séeke to be knowen for Saintes méete in very dede for this heaueÌ„ hast thou neuer heard speak of the Countesse of Vastalla and of hir that causeth hir selfe to be called the holye Ladye Saint Camill Marforius Yes but I neuer tooke héede therevnto what be they Pasquine I can not tell what they be For they do that which Paule doth disalowe being idle gadding from Citie to Citie and from house to house But yet hath Vastalla founded hir sect in Millaine Camilla was of late in Pauia and nowe is in Venice for into the déepe waters the great fishe alwayes goeth Marforius Tell me somewhat of the same Vastalla whether she bring forth any monsters Pasquine Thou sayest very well for who soeuer forsaketh God nature can doe nothing but bring forth monsters This Vastalla being a wydowe rich wealthy and of great byrth and therefore called a Countesse hath ordayned a secte of women and men who must séeke to attaâ—e to that puritie â—nocencie that was in Adam and Eue before they offended and to be such as can sinne no more and to be without all féeling of affectioÌ„ or passion and the mean to come herevnto is long prayers muche silence continuall fastings and to be shriuen euery day shewing and opening what soeuer it be eyther good or euill that they haue done sayd or thought without leauing behinde any iote or tittle of any thing Moreouer they muste receyue their maker euery eight dayes and they call their maker that rounde Cake in the which they saye is the body of Christ which is in heauen Marforius Alas what sayest thou Pasquine beleuest thou not that the consecrate breade is the body of Christ Pasquine And doest not thou beleue that Christ is very man Marforius Yes I doe beleue it and that he was borne of the Uirgin Mary and that he suffered dyed and was buried Pasquine Beleuest thou not that he afterwarde rose againe very man and that he ascended into heauen bearing with him his body full and whole and that he shall come thence in the same fashion that he was sene go hence to iudge the quicke and the deade Marforius Yea I doe beleue it and do looke for it Pasquine If thou beleue this wherefore wilte thou beleue that that breade is the â—ody of what gladnesse hast thou brought me vnto I do right well beleue that thou haste bene in heauen and haste brought from thence these so high mysteries For this knowledge is not of men but heauenly Now haue I let go the Woulfe and by thy labour and dilâ—gence aâ— come out of great daunger wherfore I giue â—od thankes without ende Pasquine Al that which this secte of the Countesse of Vastalla and all the Popishe route else do goe about concerning this Sacrament bycause they are so farre wyde froÌ„ the institution of Christ from the truth al that I say is nothing else but that which the scripture calleth the cursed Idol abhomination Marforius And I was euen nowe thinking therevpon and muche I maruelled howe it shoulde come to passe that some whiche vnderstande these thinges shoulde remayne still blinded in the errour of these so wicked Sacrifices and be partakers of them the which surely can not be without moste haynous offence against god Pasquine What man some doth
mention of Masses nor of offeringes for the soules of the deade Saint Iohn in his Epistles doth highly set forth charitye and yet speaketh not a worde of Charity for the deade But what shall we say of the great diligence of Saint Paule in teaching the Romanes faith and good workes and yet teacheth he none other purging of sinnes but by the bloude of Christ. Reade his epistles to the Corinthians thou shalte finde that he maketh collections requestes and recommendations for the poore brethren that are in captiuity and nede so that he sayth he hath taken awaye from the other Churches to sende to the poore at Hierusalem and yet maketh he no maner of collection or other thing for y ◠deade As these théeues do all day long whereby they are become rycher then Craesus and fall to Iolye good chere with whores and bawdes and the poore dye for hunger vvoe be to you Scribes Pharisies Ipocrites that laye a syde the commaundement of God which is to helpe the poore for your cursed traditions of Purgatorie the which hath swalowed vp almost all the goods of the worlde It is that sacke whereof the Prophete speaketh that is neuer full and that horse-leach wherof Salomō saith that hath two daughters that crye Bring hyther bring hyther So saye these théeues bring hyther for y ◠soules of your dead friends and parents Forget not the poore that be deade that crye vnto you Miseremini Oh slaunderous and trayterous falsifiers what a presumptuous boldenesse is this of you to maintaine such lyes deceiue the people this is that fyre y ◠neuer crieth hoa If you should giue all the whole worlde to these false theues they woulde neuer saye hoa for they are the very insatiable Hell it selfe Marforius How vnderstandest thou that place of Saint Mathew y ◠saith Agree with thine aduersarie quickely while thou art on the vvay vvith him that he giue thee not to the Iudge the Iudge gyue thee vnto the handes of the Minister thou be cast in prison verily I say vnto thee that thou shalt not come out from thence vntil thou haue payed euē to the vttermoste farthing Pasquine Doest y u finde any purgatorie in this speaking Marforius I will not affirme it hauing heard of thée so many probable reasons to the contrarie but I will tell thée how the Sophisters proue the same vpon this text they saye that oure aduersarie is synne who gyuethe vs vnto the Iudge whiche is God and he putteth vs in prison which is purgatorie out of the which we shall not come vntill we haue made full satisfaction suffering the fire of it Pasquine It was the diuell that in this sorte did interprete these words his ministers seke to maynteyne the same interpretacion But if thou wilt haue the true exposition of these wordes thou must take good heede wherof Christe speaketh there he speaketh of leauing of hatred and that a man ought to reconcile him selfe to his neighboure the whiche who so doth not is in daunger to take the ouerthrow and to be cast into Prison from whence he shall not come out vntill he haue made full satisfaction and the same doth Saint Luke confirme saying Whyle thou goest vvith thine aduersary to the ruler as thou art in the vvay giue diligence that thou mayest be delyuered from him He sayth plainely vnto to the Ruler before whome men goe to pleade their causes and to receiue iustice Thus doth Chrisostome and Theophilacte vnderstande that place and Ambrose which sayth vvhen thou goest to the Magistrate And Hillarie also in his Cannones where he sayth That in this place it must be vnderstande of the reconciliation and sayth not of the satisfaction for sinnes in Purgatory Thou séest therefore that these interpretations of thine can not stande with the meaning of the Scripture for it is rather a sense cūningly wrested which as Saint Ierome sayth is not good to proue the rules or grounds of our fayth Marforius There are also other textes with y ◠which they proue Purgatory Pasquine What be those Marforius That of Saint Mathew where Christ sayth That the kingdome of heauen is like vnto a King that vvould take accompt of his seruaunts c. And saith that one of them vvas brought before him vvhich ought him tenne thousande Talents c. And the Lorde vvas vvroth deliuered him to the kepers of the prison vntil that he had paid the vvhole debt that he ought They say this text meaneth that he shoulde be put in Purgatory and there lefte vntill the full satisfaction of the debt whiche when he hath payed he shall come out Pasquine This text is so cleare that it is not possible otherwise to be vnderstanded than according to the matter that Christ speaketh of And if it were possible to giue this place anye other interpretation yet is it most impossible to interprete it for Purgatorye Consider a little wherefore Christ vseth thys similitude He sayth Thou euill seruaunt haue not I forgiuen thee all the debt thou oughtest me euen as thou hast prayed me shouldest not thou likevvyse haue had compassion on thy fellovv and shovv mercy vnto him euē as I haue shevved it vnto thee This therefore hath none other meaning but to exhorte vs to forgiue one another if we wil that god forgiue vs and meaneth nothing of Purgatory nor of no suche foolish toyes Marforius Thou meanest therfore that this debtour was cast into Hell and not into Purgatory Pasquine So I meane Marforius He that is cast into Hell can neuer come from thence and yet it séemeth that this debtour of whom Christ speaketh shal come out for he saith vntill he pay the debt Therfore when he hath payed the debte he shall come out Pasquine All thy doubt standeth vpon this word vntill doth it Marforius Yea Pasquine And I tell thée that that word vntill in this place signifieth not a tyme that hath end or is definitiue but a time without ende and that is infinite Marforius Beware that thou interprete not also things cleane contrary as our Priestes doe Pasquine I will proue it vnto thée all that I haue sayde with the authorityes of the Scripture and not with Sophistrie nor with mans authorityes Marforius Doest thou find in other places of the Scripture that this worde vntill signifieth a tyme infinite Pasquine Yea out of doubt Saint Mathew sayth that Ioseph knew not the Uirgin Marye vntill she had brought forth hir sonne wilte thou perhaps say that that most pure virgin after hir deliuerance was knowen by Ioseph Marforius God kepe me from so thinking I beleue that she was alwayes a Uirgin Pasquine This worde therfore vntill signifieth not any time that hath ende The same shalt thou finde also in the Cx. Psalme And who so would otherwyse vnderstande it should confound al the whole meaning of the Scripture And