against your selfe ye tell vs much of men of fathers counselles fained Canons of the Apostles and the authoritie of the Catholike Church You say because Ministers be not ordained by such a Byshop and Priest as the Catholike Church hath put in that authoritie therefore they haue no autoritie in Church matters I finde two faults here with you one for clipping the king of heauen his lawfull coyne or leauing out a worde of importance in this text of the 5. to the Hebrews For ye should say that is called of God But it is your mauer ye can doe it well enough we haue nowe taken tryall thereof but too much and yee thinke ye may doe herein what ye list without coutrolement The other fault is that when you haue put God his name out of the text in whome the Apostle sayeth the authoritie is to call and appoint c. If yee did cite that text to proue that all Church Ministeries and ministers must haue God for their foundation and Authour and must be called of him wee woulde finde no fault But you place in God his steade your Catholike Church of Rome you meane I trowe This dealing wee cannot away with where God is shut out what haue we to doe with men or the Churches authoritie c. The sentence of S. Paule to Timothie speaketh nothing of the dignitte of the high Priest Ye neede not haue put in therefore this dignitie there neither speaketh 〈◊〉 one worde of your Popishe priesthood and Priestes but of those he called before Ancients or Elders in that Chapter where ye finde laying on of handes ye dreame of making Priests and giuing orders by and by But that ye like any pharse better than the Scriptures ye might haue also called Timothie with S. Paul an Euangelist c. as wel as by a name which y e scripture giueth him not 〈◊〉 is not nowe y e first time you call him thus The name I denie not is honest lawfull vsed in the scriptures But because it is diuersly taken sometime generally sometime particularly and in vse of speeche with vs sometime for such a one as is a Popish or false Bishop somtime for a true 〈◊〉 of Christe there needeth distinction 〈◊〉 plaine exposition for feare of mistaking the worde in a wrong sense And nothing is better in such abuse of the office and name and varietie doubtfulnesse of speech in my opinion then to followe the simplicitie of the Scriptures and to keepe the phrase and maner of speeche vsed of the holy 〈◊〉 in all sinceritie especially seeing properly to speake the office of an Euangelist and of a Bishop Bee distinct and two seuerall offices but let that goe The holy Churche functions instituted by our Sauiour Christe and in the Scriptures recommended vnto vs for to continue ordinarie Ministeries among vs as Preaching Pastours which are sometime called Bishops or Ouerseers somtime otherwise Teachers Elders Deacons doe we receiue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 uerence as becōmeth Your vnder orders w t your sacrificing Priesthood as deuised by men doe I not see howe our Churche is tyed vnto nor why it should be Our Ministers that preache the Gospell heere besides the inwarde assurance of God his sending after they be called haue their admission with imposition of handes and prayer and that publikely in the face of the Churche with the approbation 〈◊〉 being first examined 〈◊〉 their giftes serue thē for that office and testimonie being giuen for their honest life and behauiour This is more religiously doone and is more agreeable to the Apostles doctrine to Timothie admonition by you here alleadged then your Ceremonious doing is as their office is better groūded on God his booke then yours Court thē you lay men or call them so as much and as long as yee list The summe is you doe but goe about with slaunder to deceiue the simple The third particular faulte of our God his seruice is alleadged to bee this that wee haue diuers falle and blasphemous thinges therein saith this Papists blasphemous mouth so placed as they may seeme to be very scripture hee giueth example in the ende of a certaine Geneua Psalme as lyingly hee speaketh like himselfe You papists haue a poore spight at that 〈◊〉 Citie Geneua to cal that a Geneua Psalme whiche I thinke was neuer saide songe nor heard in Geneua And I am sure the Psalmes beeing printed in English meeter at Geneua and there songue when there was an Englishe congregation assembled there in time of our persecution this Canticle was not in the booke nor knowne of nor any but Dauid his Psalmes Besides this is not neither euer was any part of the seruice heere vsed But beeing since made by a godly man after the Psalmes by the Printer set in y e end of the booke w t the Authour his name according to his discretion wherein I wishe for mine owne part Printers tooke not themselues so much libertie especially in these matters and if that may appease or content and winne you to the professiō of Christ his Gospel to tell you mine opinion I would not care if both that and all other songues besides Dauid his Psalmes and Scriptures Were layde aside and 〈◊〉 out of our congregations Wee haue not to answere for euery particular man his fact Howebeit the thing is 〈◊〉 so much disliked of by you for that it is not Scripture for then would you dislike your owne seruice a great deale more but because your corrupt religion is therein touched and namely your God the Pope this is 〈◊〉 griefe but not iust Syr. Yee cannot like that we haue the scriptures in our Church assemblies yee cannot like that is not scriptures though it bee godly and not against the Scriptures in any part Sumine liking or disliking all must bee as liketh you Wee pray yee say to God to keepe vs from Pope Turke and Papistrie And why not Can we lightly pray to be kept from worser thinges than from these mischieuous breakenecks of mens soules Of Papistrie I haue said enough through this whole booke what in deed it is what mē shall find it to be if 〈◊〉 call it to good iust tryal And y e 〈◊〉 at this day seeth thāks be to God wel enough thereinto sauing a certaine that are and needes will be wilfully obstinate and blinde Concerning that your Pope is ioyned with the Turke the match we say is 〈◊〉 fit they may well drawe both in one yoke sauing that if there be any difference or oddes the Pope is y e worse because he doth not only persecute and slay with the sworde as the Turke but slaieth moe and more cunningly by persuasion of word not God his worde and Scripture 〈◊〉 graunt but his owne dreames glosed and vnder pretence as appeareth in you that are his Imps come from him for that purpose You are very readie to lay blasphemie to the charge of others we
not guiltie of whooredome because blindnesse is like ignorance but if casting a Darte or shutting hee hap in play c. to kyll any man he is guiltie saith hee of murther This is good Diuinitie among our Englishe Romane Catholikes at this day as besides those that nowe write may bee seene in M. Harding a Proctor euen for the Stewes and a mainteiner and enlarger of that filthie common saying If ye liue not chastly doe it charily which hee ralleth good counsell and pertaining to layefolke aswel as to Clarkes Oh gentle companion But to keepe mee to the Angelicall Doctour Fryer Thomas our mens great Authour Thus in this matter of an erroneous conscience not disagreeing from the rest writeth he in his summe If reason or conscience erre in this that a man thinke some woman comming vnto him in his bed is his wife and shee demaundyng it he will ye with her his will is excused and is not will because this errour proceedeth of a circumstaunce which excuseth and causeth the thing to be inuoluntary In these examples may a man liuely beholde as in a 〈◊〉 the foundation and grounde of M. How lets doctrine and his fellowes in this matter of conscience whiche is euen by their doctrine profession and religion to thrust forwarde their Catholikes or Schollers and followers for want of helpe that way belike headlong into hell fire I am weerie and ashamed of these beastes villanies I will therefore conclude and ende this diuelishe doctrine for this point where I began it with D. Thomas vpon that text of Scripture that these men vse to proue this matter by euen the + to the Romanes that we may see their faithfull and holy expositions the abusing of the text it selfe I examine in his place For the Question and resolution of an erronious conscience binding let the reader remember what I haue before set downe out of D. Thomas His examples 〈◊〉 bee If a man thinke he sinne mortally except hee steale or commit fornication whether he may do against that hee thinketh or against this his erroneous conscience as he nameth it without mortally sinning or no Hee obiecteth after his maner first the Lawe of GOD which forbidding fornication and 〈◊〉 bindeth strenglyer then conscience next hee 〈◊〉 perplexitie in sinning euery way in committing fornication against Gods lawe and in not committing fornication against his conscience But hee resolueth generally euen like him 〈◊〉 as yee 〈◊〉 before and for fornication particularly 〈◊〉 If a man beleeue that not to commit fornication is mortall sinne or to absteine from that vice whilest hee choseth not to commit fornication or to abstaine from it hee choseth they bee his woordes to sinne mortally or deadly and so doth he finne mortally And hereto maketh that 〈◊〉 hee which the Apostle here speaketh 〈◊〉 lying spirite No we 〈◊〉 that which is obiected to the contrarye 〈◊〉 out of the lawe of God hee 〈◊〉 vp the matter and cuttes it of very shortly thus that hindereth not that is first obiected of the lawe of God because there is one and the same bonde of a conscience euen erronious and of the lawe of God for conscience doth not appoint any thing to bee done or auoyded but that it beleeueth the same is the lawe of God for the lawe is not applied to our doinges but by meanes of our conscience And yet gentle D. Thomas as litle account as yee make of the lawe of God the authoritie thereof and bonde ouer mens consciences here equalling the bonde of a noughtie and lying conscience therewith if it bee the commandement of your Church of Prelate it bindeth though conscience be to the contrarie Besides if a Prelate commaunde any thing that your Subiectes conscience telleth him to be contrary to the lawe of God It is answered according to Bonauenture that he is bound to lay away his conscience c. and obey yea if hee haue probable and discreet though not manifest and euident beleefe for obedience let him doe that which is commanded him because he is bound in suche a doubt so to doe and is excused for obedience sake but let him by no meanes doe it of his owne will because he may not for that he should sinne mortally c. As for perplexitie of sinning euery way whereinto we are brought by this doctrine which as they teache is while men bee in the bryers sometime betweene two mortall sinnes sometime betweene two veniall sometime betweene a mortall and a veniall sinne thus they speake D. Thomas saith that also is no hinderance to this doctrine for it is no matter though one be perplexed by some suppositiō though no man be simply perplexed that is vpon condition vnlesse he put away that erronious conscience or he is perplexed while that cōscience remaineth But here is playne contradiction and falling out betweene these doctors as there is not sounde agreement in that they write of an erronious or lying conscience binding for the case being thus supposed that they may not doe against their conscience though it be Erroneous and euill vpon paine of damnation Then commeth in M. Howlet who 〈◊〉 with his authour sometime sayth of him selfe and other such Catholiks here y t eyther they must renounce God by doing that which in iudgement and conscieuce they condemne be their consciēce right or wrong it is no matter all is one or els sustaine such intollerable molestations as they cānot beare A hard strait especially seeing as he saith elsewhere Conscience dependeth of iudgement and not of wil and so cannot be framed and reduced to conformimitie c. Heere is a diuers aud doubtfull speech of conscience and a greate extremitie that men be nowe brought into as seemeth by this doctriue what shall they doe shall they to burst out or come foorth of this maze choose the lesse euill as they are willed in their canon by Gregory which is contrary to that wee may not do euill that good may come thereof or shall they change their pretended consciences y t surely is the best so are they willed to doe enen by some of their owne writers As for that bonde of erroneous conscience that they pretende it is none at all nor of conscience simply other wise then with God and vnder him Augustin sayth well as D. Thomas can alleadge that the commandement of the inferiour power bindeth not yf it be contrary to the commandement of the superiour power as if 〈◊〉 vnder gouernour of a Prouince c. bid that which his Emperour or head gouernour forbid why did hee not answere that obiection so where the Lawe of God and conscience commaunde contraries For I pray you in all reason is not God and our bonde of duette to him expressed in his worde written aboue our conscience and all dutie to man if comparison be made namely the same being confessed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 erroneous and lying But M. Howlet saith that can not be in him
rendered Yee cite the wordes falsely corrupt the sense Which that it may the better be perceiued I will set downe both your wordes and also the Apostles Thus you Whatsoeuer we doe contrary to our iudgement and conscience is according to the Apostle damnable because we decerne it to bee 〈◊〉 and yet doe it The Apostle thus He that doubteth if hee eate is condemned because he 〈◊〉 not of faith And whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne The Apostle speaketh particularly and of a certaine matter whiche restraineth his note of vniuersalitie You generally without any restraint or obseruation of the circumstance of the text and matter treated of hee of a faythfull man and of fayth You giue vs an example of a Heathen man and talke at randome of our owne iudgement and conscience he speaketh of eating which is an outwarde action and of it selfe as they speake indifferent You in a far otherkind of things of their own nature good or euill We acknowledge in sum the holy Apostles words and sense we find not yours in the text ye sende vs too And it is an ill commentary that corrupteth the text The Apostle saith because not of faith Nowe because you haue set downe in steade thereof iudgement and conscience you foyst also into the text the woorde decerne Because wee decerne it to bee euill and yet doe it If you say you followe the Author of this your discourse with whom yet in citing this texte yee altogether agree not though yee both corrupt the same foully As of him I speake in his place so let me here tell you what opinion soeuer greater then reason you haue of your Maister wee are not bounde I tell you to followe neither him nor you in corrupting of the holy Scriptures yee both put in the worde decerne of your owne and yee put our iudgement conscience or knowledge for fayth which it seemeth ye take out of your Schoole mens Commentaries But I woulde you woulde not change the wordes of holy scripture into your Scholasticall wryters expositions and termes and set vs the same down for scripture stil Yf your parenthesis here according to the Apostle were thus according to our D. Thomas or Schoole Doctors c. or according to our notes taken at the Lecture in cases of conscience then might it paraduenture stande right but the Apostle and your D. Thomas or Schoole doctors c. not being one you take to muche vpon you and wee can giue you no such licentious libertie to vse the ones name for the other I see 〈◊〉 you driue It is a principle with you that Byrdes of one feather must flie and holde together Errour agreeth very well commonly with errour and falshood Your common translation of the Byble like as your Scholemen must bee kept and followed inuiolably not to be checkt nor corrected by the 〈◊〉 or Greeke text vnder paine of the Popes great curse hence belike you and your fellowe woulde seeme to take your woorde decerne But sir there is falshood in fellowshippe though your eyes M Howlet coulde not possibly discerne neyther by day nor by night euery letter sillable and therfore might easily be deceiued in taking one word for another y t were somewhat like yet y e Autor of your treatise mee thinketh might haue lookt better to y e matter if it had bin but for deceiuing of you herein many other y t follow him Where both of you haue it decerne euen your common translation if ye looke well on it hath discerne Now Gramarians y t shew y t etymology of words wil tel you y t discerne decerne be two wordes different in signification discerne is to put difference beetweene thinges decerne is a higher woorde of iudgement and authoritie whereof wee call A decree c. And your Pope decernimus statuimus c. They that leaue both your woorde of decerning or iudging deuised by your selues and discerning which the worde of your vulgar latine Translation in this last verse of the 14. chapter to the Romanes and translate it by the woorde of doubting as both in Latine and Englishe is done haue both better and 〈◊〉 rendred it and expressed by a fit woorde the meaning of the holy Ghost also Cauell not here at nor barke not at our translation for leauiug heere your vulgar and common translation he leaueth himselfe in another place and translateth this very worde as our men doe heere But dogges will barke euen at the Moone You must bee content to 〈◊〉 your owne lawe and to giue vs leaue to deale with you truly in that wherein you vntruely take to your selues libertie against vs you so prie into our translations and translating of the Scriptures that the least fault must be espied yea where there is none fault must bee imagined and deuised and we roundly taken vp and compared to a boy in a Grammer Schoole that shoulde bee brecht so yee speake and further and worse to whereof in his place Leaue your decerning iudging and discerning leaue for shame your corrupting of the holy Scriptures in woorde and sense leaue your caueling and carping at our translations of the Byble vse in all a better and more vpright conscience then hitherto For the matter of an action good in it selfe and the example yee bring vs in deuised of a Gentile that shoulde for feare say or sweare that there were a Messias it is altogether impertinent and besids the Apostles purpose who as I sayde treateth not in that place of things simply good or euyll or of bearing with a thing euill in it selfe and of the owne nature muche lesse with impietie or superstition he speaketh but of outwarde thinges hee speaketh not of Gentiles or Infidels nor yet of obstinate Christians that walke stubburnely vtterly condemning the profession of the Gospell but of a brother a faithfull man and one that hath receiued and embraced the profession of the Gospell and is weake through ignorance of some one point partaining to Christian libertie in the outwarde vse of Gods creatures wherin he is not yet thorowly instructed of bearing with such a one by those whom God hath called to more plentifull knowledge of his heauenly truth speaketh hee Againe the maner and the end of bearing must be considered which is not to nourish errour or to obstinate harden the weake in their opinion and doing but rather to drawe them by all meanes we may from errour and to aduance them more and more in the knowledge of the truth The Apostle calleth it beefore in this chapter edification when he biddeth vs followe the thinges which concerne peace and wherwith one may edifie another or as he speaketh in y e beginning of y e next chap. Let euery mā please his neighbour in that which is good to edificatiō Lastly the matters y e Apostle here speaketh of particularly would bee cōsidered which are not al outward things but such as God himselfe was
Oracle according to Christs answere so you beeleeue geuen Fryer Thomas by the mouth of the Image of the crucifixe Thou hast written well of me Thomas Furdermore if one woulde enter into more particular examination of that you say it were not harde to improoue this your subtile exposition and by as good ground to ascribe to the father authority to the sonn natiuitie or with the scripture power grace which you appropriate to the father and the holy Ghost And to the holy Ghost communitie of the father the son vnitie societie charitie or else power which you ascribe here to the father as it may be to both the father and the holy Ghost c. This were not hard for him to do y t were disposed to dally w t the Scriptures and truth of God as you do drawing y t same into diuers vncertain expositiōs too irreligeously Gregory hath not one word of sin against the holy Ghost in place ye quote I graunt you he speaketh of insirmitie ignorance and purpose but euery sinne done aduisedly or of purpose is not sinne against the holy Ghost I pray you sir if these your catholikes did commit a sinne and that a greeuous sinne in haunting Protestants churches which I trust they doe with better and more religious minds than you iudge or hereafter at least will Iudge nothing beefore the time vntill the Lorde come c. and so sinne not at all But serue God faythfully But I say put the case there be some such naughtie men then God amende them But why I pray you may they not be iudged to do y t they do of humane frailtie as did Peter seeing you say they doe it for feare fauour or some worldly cause This is but hard freedome harde election and hardly to be called meere will and malice if al these termes be admitted to define sinne against the holy Ghost Augustines modestie noted by Thomas would haue beseemed you This is a deepe question let the light of exposition thereof be sought for of the Lorde I tel you beloued there is not possible a greater nor a harder questiō in al the holy Scriptures Thus far Augustine Whose description both Petrus Lombardus and Thomas auowe and like better then I doe youres There seeme ywis moe thinges required in the description of it than you heere expresse In your heat you shake vp these your catholikes God make them wise and you shall gaine little eyther by them or by that kinde of handling It is better going to the Popes hell or by his pretended sending thither than by his that is able to destroy both body and soule in hell fire Wherefore let vs feare him that is the eternall God which alone hath power to saue and to destroy I speake not all this while to defend any man in doing against conscience any thing or if these men haue so shaken off al reniorce of conscience that they are lulled a sleepe in securitie I with them to awake to learne a better religion which is ioyned with conscience I answere the aduersaries vniust charge and threat and hope the best of such as communicate with Christes church and religion here professed or shewe them whereto they haue at least to trust I woulde haue none flatter themselues in euill which these men cariyng such a conscience as he here speaketh of or suche a minde and not altering the same doe and are in a dangerous case for nourishing such a serpent in their bosome as is poperie and yet dissemble with all the worlde in pretending to be of another religion The mans talke here hauing been possible abrode a shriuing of many or taken it frō them that haue so done and so knowing their consciences better then we that liue among them and are dayly conuersant with them for that we sift not their consciences may make one doubte there bee manye hollowe harted Catholikes among vs or worldlinges rather and Atheistes for in deed such are vtterly without God haue no cōscience at al. I wishe them therefore to looke about thē men may be damned many a one is damned for other sins thē the sin against the holy Ghost how euer they sinne that greeuously I dare not say they sinne against the holy Ghost for al this or may not ' be good mē in time to cōe Thus make I mine argumēt against y e aduersarie Nothing supposed to be done of feare fauour or other passiō can be iustly called sin against the holy Ghost The Catholikes cōmunicating w t our churches is a thing supposed to be done of feare fauour or other passion euen by this man and other of that syde Therefore the Catholikes communicating with our Churches can not bee iustly called sinne against the holy Ghost Thus far of those that you accompt the worst and to to badde Catholikes I pray God we may find them good Christians And yet if they haue learned any euill they haue learned it of your religion and in your schoole I haue beene herein the longer bicause the whole booke seemeth to be written against this kinde of men God open their eyes they may see knowe and discerne their friendes from their foes bee carefull and watchfull amending at least in time to come that which is amisse The third sort of catholikes or the seconde as you tearm them quite leauing out such as your selfe are agree but in one of the three points I spake of before dissent in two they iudge all religions beside theyr owne say you false erronious damnable this haue they cōmon with other Romane catholikes but they thinke it lawfull for some worldly respect as for sauing their offices dignities liberties credits or the like to shewe themselues conformable men in going to church and other church proceedinges here c. thinking also other too scrupulous that stand in refusal of y e same This make you y e proper difference of these from other catholikes Nowe as they agree with the rest in the first point so in going to church taking othe communicating c. they disagree from hot Catholikes and agree therein with those I haue at large discoursed of euen now te The more I perceiue they acquaint them selues with the Gospell of Christ here professed and receiued the more dutifull they shewe them selues to her Matestie the worse bee they liked of you but the matter is not great Albeit these agree no better with you hot Catholikes but dissent in mo pointes then the other that went afore yet ye thought it pollicie belike hauing so scourged and taken vp those somewhat here to spare these men least you should do your religion too much hurt if you should fal too farre out with all besides your selues In places elsewhere you take them vp very sharply thogh but here thinking good to forbe are least you should want another mayne branche of your tree yee haue thought good to make
Councell No verily Let matter with matter saith he cause with cause Reason with reason pleade by the authorities of the scriptures not proper witnesses of euery bodie but common to both c. This am I the bolder with the Reader to set downe that we may see your skill and trust in citing the fathers If one should followe all he should make great volumes which I doubt whether for your pleasures it bee necessarie For the diuels talke with Christ how I pray you did our 〈◊〉 confute him was it not by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 afore I sayde Augustine did the heretike Yes yes still and all by the scriptures so necessary and profitable 〈◊〉 are they say or thinke you what you will Though we finde not for that which followeth the wordes in Hierome where ye sende vs to seeke them yet because it may be the fault of the Printer I presse it not you shoulde haue prooued and shewed vs to be heretikes before ye should haue applied that to our seruice supposition is a bare proofe and serueth not The strange howling as of wolues and bellowing noyse of mad Bullockes that in your Synagogues you make by your piping and singing in a strange tongue in that you call your diuine seruice seemeth to bee liuely expressed by Hierome both in this sentence and elsewhere also when vppon these wordes of the Prophet Amos Take from me the confused noyse of thy Hymnes I will not heare the musicke of thy Organes that worde doeth Hierome set downe according to the Septuagints translation The Prayer sayth he of the Iewes and the Psalmes whiche they sing in their Synagogues and the heretikes curious and set hymne or prayer as one would say artificially done with descant and quauering is a trouble vnto the Lord that I may so speake it is the grunting of a hog and the braying of Asses c And in the new Testament vpon these wordes of the Apostle Singing and making melodie vnto the Lord Let them heare saith Hierome whose office it is to sing in the Church that God is to bee sung to not with voice but with heart and that their throate and iawes are not to be annointed and cleered with oyntmēts like players that measure and stagelike noise and songues maye by hearde in the Churche but in feare in deede in knowledge of the scriptures although there be some man as they are wonte to speake of an euell brest or voyce If hee haue good woorkes hee is a sweete singer with God Let the seruant of Christ so sing that not the voyce of the singer but the wordes that are read may delight and please c. Thus much out of Hierome whome ye cite vpon occasion of wolues howling and the bellowing noise of mad bullockes that the reader may see whether the same and the like agree better with your curious pricksong and descant in your latin seruice or with our moderate and plain singing of Dauid his Psalines in the mother tongue Hee that is desirous to see more how fitly your wanton and fleshly melodie or roring rather in your Popish Churches is represented by Hierom. Let him looke vpon Cornelius Agrippa Erasmus Polidore Virgil and such like who euen in our time so great plained of y t vnreasonable brutishe disorder in your popish Churches and namely heere in England for that is by expresse wordes noted of Erasmus Yee cite Augustin here twise together and still of the Donatist Heretikes it was the first place ye cited in the entrance of your discourse how litle to purpose we there examined wee tel you againe again we are neither donatists nor other heretikes that shoulde you haue bent your selfe first to haue prooued that these testimonies might haue seemed to haue beene 〈◊〉 applied as that vnprooued and so is like to remaine they iustly maye nowe bee applyed to you Betweene your two places here alleadged out of Augustine the same Augustine vpon the words of Dauid I cryed vnto the Lorde sayeth well and that to the Donatiste Crye you to the Lorde not to Donatus So say we to you popishe Heretikes Crye to the Lorde not to this Patrone and that which you haue made to your selues not to this canonized Saint of your Popes nor to that whereof some like ynough are farre from heauen and so from helping of you Take the lustie prelate of Englande Your S. Thomas Becket for example if ye will or some such like Saint of your making wee say as Augustine sayde in his dayes according to the perpetual doctrine of the sacred scriptures Crie vnto the Lorde not to any creature wee adde furder with him euen in this place Let no man be thy Lorde for the Lorde hee meaneth in steade of the true Lorde of heauen which vnder the Lorde woulde not bee thy fellowe seruaunt Whether it bee in heauen Let God in prayer be 〈◊〉 per se A as they say Or vppon earth to shut out your Lorde god the Pope and to bring him to bee but a fellowe seruaunt with other Let that God of heauen keep his prerogatiue or else bee you in exalting and setting vp that man of sinne Heretikes with the Donatistes Briefly to shut vp this place finde no fault with our seruice for that it hath the scriptures and put a difference between the Iewes Heretiks and the diuelishe peruerting and abusing the same and the right vse thereof with reuerence to our instruction and learning that through pacience and comfort we may haue hope which is an ende the Apostles setteth vs down the same to be written for Let it in all things be A lanterne to our feete and a light to our path as holy Dauid speaketh For which causes also the same is nowe published and made common vnto vs by her Maiestie and the State Marke the great benefite the Churche of God here hath reaped thereby and still doth and yee shall shewe your selfe besides your impietie to Gods worde very vncharitable and enuious to grudge vs the Scriptures or to reproche the same vnto vs. Nowe whether wee be Heretikes that sticke to the scriptures and to the sincere plaine and sure interpretation therof by themselues that one place may sufficiently expounde another that wee neede not run to men to haue the true sense but to let the holy 〈◊〉 euer expounde himselfe Or you that cannot nor will not bee content with this but call for this doctours exposition that doctours sense and so foorth rouing and running at randon if the worlde may not be iudge yet I pray you let your owne Cannon Lawe be iudge betweene vs Wee must take the sense and meaning of the Truth out of the scriptures themselues sayth Gratian out of Pope Clement And yet furder out of Hierome Whosoeuer otherwise vnderstandeth the scripture then the sense and meaning of the holy Ghost by whom it was written requireth Although he be not departed
corruptions and haue floung them out of the Text of Scriptures and restored the truth and the Text But your religion towards the Pope and Poperie hath taken away all religion towardes God and his worde As may bee seene in infinite places of the Bible obserued by the godly and learned aforetime and nowe a dayes and by diuers of your owne side and notably in the Newe Testament by Faber Valla Erasmus c. and by those that haue examined and answered your Trent Coūcell as Caluin Kemnitius other To whose writings I refer the Christiā Reader herein to turn all that heere is saide against vs and our translation vpon the Papistes and their corrupt translation of the holy scriptures which I would haue forborne to haue entred into except necessitie and this discoursers importunitie had pulde mee into this odious matter to shew the Papistes partiall and hollowe dealing heerein Nowe because this common Latine translation of the Bible hath gone and still doth with many vnder the name of Hierome his translation and hath gotten thereby credit for the man his great learning our aduersaries also as seemeth woulde faine haue it reputed for Hierom his Therfore shall it not be amisse out of many places to bring one out of Hierome in his Commentaries vpon the Scriptures which plainely condemneth and reprooueth these Gentlemens corrupt translation as not good and so none of Hieromehis A little leauen corrupteth the whole lumpe Thus the olde translation as they call it Hierome thus a little leauē leaueneth or sowreth the whole lump immediatly after in his Cōmentarie on those words It is ill in our Latine bookes saith hee a little leauen corrupteth the whole lumpe and the interpreter translated rather his owne meaning than the Apostle his wordes c. A shrewde checke of your translation by Hierome Why will yee not mende it If you say it bee Hieromes Why will yee not let him mende it But let vs proceede for y e place of the second booke of the Machabees which is the seconde faulte you find in our trāslatiō of y e Bible cōsidering y t it is neuer read in our publike church meetings you might haue spared y t frō being a fault in our seruice sauing y t wher you find none ye think good to deuise imagine faults to put the same vpon vs will we nill wee If ye had had any store ye might would no doubt haue made better fitter choyse to haue found faulte with the English translation read in our assemblies either your skill is not great or your store poore and slender or lastly our English Bibles too well translated to bee iustly controuled by you Your conclusion grounded vppon so weake and slender premises or proofes thereof must needes but ill fauouredly followe This I say and when I haue saide yet reporte mee too any learned indifferente Reader vppon conference with the Greeke to Judge that in these bookes of the Maccabees which are among the Apocrypha as they are called that is priuately and secretly read rather thē opēly approued receiued to be canonical scriptures as Hierom sayth Our english bibles keepe more 〈◊〉 and come neerer to the Greek text than your vulgar translation and more helpe vpon conference shall the Englishe Reader haue to vnderstande the sense of the Authour than at the other Although in deede the Greeke it selfe euen here be somewhat diffused and darke And therefore no maruaile the originall or fountaine being troubled if translations bee not the playnest Iosephus a Iewe hath in Hebrew written fiue bookes of the Iewishe Hystories from their captiuitie in Babylon vntyll Pilate their President In which bookes among other thinges are written the worthye Actes of the Maccabees And entreating this very place in that booke he maketh no mention of this prayer for the dead And this Ioseph Ben Gorion is thought to bee that Iason of Cyrenae out of whome this booke of the Maccabees was taken as an Abrigemēt So as I maruaile howe that shoulde orderly come into the Abrigement whiche is not founde in the bodie of the storie written at large And yet the Abridger doth but tel his opinion of Iudas and his facte wherein if he haue not said and done as he shoulde let him as he requesteth in the ende be pardoned especially seeing he leueth the truth of things in particular to the Authour Besides this it is noted to be noted to be contrary to the custome of the Iewes euen to this day to sacrifice or pray for the dead And what commaundement or warrant is there in God his Lame for the same Lastly to leaue other thinges the example of Razis in killing himselfe an ancient and famous man among the Iewes seemeth likewise to be commended in this storie by this abridger which is not iustifiable by the scriptures though Yee neede not therefore make so great a doe 〈◊〉 the one particular example of Iudas thus commended here to grounde a doctrine thereon for oblations and prayers for the dead nor checke our English translation in the 12. Chapter of the 2. booke of the Maccabees if you consider the matter well sauing that where you haue little or no proofe as the Canonicall Scriptures prooue not that article there you had neede make much of a little or but of the shewe of a thing onely Your deuised Purgatorie and Diriges and Masses haue made this doctrine of prayer for the dead so gainefull vnto you as you are nowe lothe to let it goe The godlie learned and my good brother D. Fulke a paineful and profitable minister in Christs church easeth mee heere by his trauaile As he doth in many other places that I may nowe the more haste to an ende that the Reader findeth not in one to his contentment that possible may he finde in the other I referre therefore to him in that may be here missing and walke somewhat the more confidently and at large after him and his answere hereto which is gone before because he is well knowen God haue the glorie to be so sufficient as he is Thus much concerning the Scripture read in our Assemblies c. So yee speake too lauishly and lewdly Let the reader by this iudge in the rest of your vpright honest and plaine dealing which if you write againe I wishe you to bee better aduised in if you haue respect to your honestie and good name You say and belie vs that throughout the Scripture where idoles are forbidden we translate it images And here in your margin yesay See the English Byble Dedicated to King Henry It is worth the noting that where this gentleman findeth such fault with the Byble Dedicated as he saith To King Henry y e 8. chargeth vs or side and men with that translation those of his owne side then approued the same and some of the greatest Clergie men were then 〈◊〉 and dealers therein He shall neuer bee able
euill day I counsayle you And yet I meane not so much in this world as in that to come God giue vs all his grace Amen Imprinted at London at the three Cranes in the Vintree by Thomas Dawson for Toby Smyth dwelling in Paules Churchyarde at the signe of the Crane 1581. An appendix or addition for aunsweare to the Authors recapitulation in the ende of his Treatise BEfore you conclude vp this first parte of your discourse you gather for 〈◊〉 sake to the vnlearned foure conclusions takē out of y t you haue to fore said which being falsly supposed rather then duely proued might easily haue been heere omitted But it is to the vnlearned You may not bee gaine standed You wil haue no nay You wil not nowe dispute of the matter you say all must be supposed indeede the vnlearned vnstable are easeliest seduced and brought to wrest euen the Scriptures to their owne destruction as blessed Peter reporteth The godlier learned wise wil cal you know for sounde proofe of the matter you thinke to carrie all afore you vpon your owne credite it is no reason it may not be Going to Hereticall assemblies we graunt you is prohibited Christians by the lawe of nature of God and of his true Church not to be dispensed with by any mortall man but where when and how proue you that our Church assēblies be hereticall this would haue beene proued which you put off before you had beene so rash to haue without warrāt or ground pronounced it vnlawfull to haunt our Churche assemblies What it aduauntageth your side to suppose that which you cannot proue and lieth in controuersie betweene vs I wote not but easily may one perceiue that it sauoureth neyther of trueth nor of learning which you so confidently affirme Till you can conuince vs therefore of heresie our assemblies to be hereticall which while we may be hearde to make answere will neuer bee giue vs leaue to turne on your owne heades that which you charge vs with And forasmuch as our men haue prooued Papistes Heretikes and their Idolatrous assemblies heretical giue the Pastors and other godlie Learned leaue to admonish all the faithfull to abstayne therefrom as frō prohibited vnlawfull things where you especially haue nothing to doe or not to commād at least And seeing the case thus standeth nowe betweene these two religious that of the Protestantes and Papists In the meane while till you can more sufficiently then hitherto reproue our Church assemblies let vs craue at your hands to shewe that the whole act of going to Churche is as it is of you Papistes sayde to bee prohibited also Iure diuino naturali that is by the Lawe of GOD and nature For wee holde the contrary not by Supposition as you doe but by good warrant of God his woorde reason and experience to witte that to haunt Churche assemblies is a thing 〈◊〉 on GOD his Lawe Whether we respect the olde Testament or the newe and also on the Lawe of nature as not experience onelye taken from the Heathen and the example of them that haue amongest them any exercise of Religion but reason also sufficiently teache and not to haunt Churche meetinges on the other side or vttetly to abstayne therefrom is a contempt and vtter denying of all Religion If therfore you will needes busie your selfe where you haue no cause and little thanke of autoritye for your laboure shewe eyther your selfe more religious and fauourable in speaking for Churche meetinges or prooue more substantially then hitherto the faultes wherewith you charge the same heere amonge vs especially seeing all the worlde maye knowe and iudge that our meetinges in the excercise of Religion daylye are not onelye voyde of Idolatrye wherewith your meetinges are 〈◊〉 but tende also to the 〈◊〉 and comforte of our consciences vnto the good example of other in making publike confession of our sinnes and the Christian fayth in hearing GOD his holie woorde making publike prayers participating of the holye Sacraments c. which we take to be the principall endes and chiefest vses of Christian assemblies in steede of gasing crooching crossing pyping singing and other ceremoniall fashions in vse among you For the rest whether it bee impossible to bee so that your Pope shoulde offer too her Maiestye to confirme the Englishe seruice vppon condition to recouer his Supremacie heere in Englande whiche hee is farre from and GOD so keepe him still and whether his authoritie be aboue the Scriptures so as hee may dispense with thinges agaynst GOD his Lawe or no I leaue to the Authoures that first inuented such brabbles to occupie mens heades with all Onelye this in perusing of late I remember N. Saunders an Archepapiste among you English Romanists handeling this latter question of the Popes authoritie in dispensing against the woorde of God disputeth whether the Pope may not dispence agaynst the Apostle thus mynceth hee thinges and for his aduantage propoundeth this question and hee affirmeth as one put to his shiftes therein that the Pope may doe or suffer to bee doone sometime otherwise then the Apostle commaundeth and ordereth As for example where the Apostle commaundeth if any brother haue a wife that beleeueth not If she be content to dwell with him let him not forsake her The Pope may for some respect dispēce giue the man leaue to put a way such a wife cōtent desirous to dwell with her husband and further he may giue him leaue to marry an other contrary to the Apostles doctrine and cōmaundement With which he hath authoritie to dispense though the former wife haue committed no fault against her husband after their mariage And why not I pray you when hee hath done still doth and can doe greater thinges then this whereof I enter not now to entr eate vpon this occasion particularly nor to examine Saunders cauilles and meere shifts indeede and no better The Learned know this man of sinne well ynough and the excessiue authoritie he vsurpeth and chalengeth The vnlearned I thinke are sufficiently warned before Let all that are Godlie take heede of dealing with Pope or Papistes in mariage or otherwise In the seconde conclusion you bring no newe matter but turne vs ouer to the olde and therefore I also send the Reader to that I haue before particularly answeared In the thirde conclusion it greeueth you her Maiesties Subiectes bee and shoulde bee so obedient to her godlie commaundements and therefore where obedience for going to Churche is alleadged you call it a A vayne pretence As the holie Scriptures for the grounde of our G O D his seruice were a greate blocke lying in your way wherewith you were troubled before and therevppon trauelled to inuay agaynst the sacred Scriptures So now heere her Maiesties authoritie grounded on the Scriptures and ioyning therein with the Mynisters doctrine and exhortation to call her Subiectes to holie assemblies lyeth in your way agayne and combreth you greately
englād Liuing to a mās own cōsciēce by leauing him selfe 〈◊〉 conscience Popish Vbi 〈◊〉 ibi mā dandi 〈◊〉 caeteros manet 〈◊〉 di nece 〈◊〉 In the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The hearing of Masse how well worth a hūdred Markes Erranti 〈◊〉 medicina 〈◊〉 Cic. Aristotel Salus 〈◊〉 sita est in 〈◊〉 * In nomine Patria Filia spiritua sancta De Consecrat Dist. 4. 〈◊〉 Baptizote Psal. 51. Ephe. 2. Looke better to your abrenun cio say yee Credo say ye 〈◊〉 lo say 〈◊〉 General cros ses of Catholikes Particular extremities As M. Dimmocke was by M. Couper As young Maistrisse Tomson was by M. Elmer Iohn Field in his epistle dedicatorie of Phillip of Morneis booke to the Earle of Leycester Arist. li. l. Rhetor. 2. Pet. 2. 10. Iude. vers 8. 1. Cor. 10. 18 Prouer 23. 2 Prouer. 25. 6 The Catholique fayth teacheth obedience more then other religions Con. Const. Sess. 8. Cocleus Lib. 1. 3. Hist. Huss Wicklif li. 4. trial cal 3. In Bulla Le on 10. in asser art ibi damnat Cocleus in vita Luth. Sur. in hist. huius anni Lib. 4. inst cap. 10. Lib. 3. insti cap. 19. Goodman Gilbye Rom. 13. Vide om Doct. 2. 2. quest 90. de Leg 22 Aug. in ps 70. Crysost Ambro. in cap. 13. ad Rom. The first precher The seconde preacher A waightie motiue Prou. 30. verse 21. 22. ☞ Extra decretal de censibus cap. 2 omnis anima Extra de Maioritat obedient Tit. 1. tit 33 ca. 6. solite Vide D. 〈◊〉 q. 2. 2. a. q. 90. om doct ibid. 〈◊〉 Balaam 〈◊〉 significātur 2. 9. 7. Nos Vide M. Hardings 〈◊〉 to M. Iuel Art 4. Diuis 22. De Anna Caiapba Vide Hot. lib. 2. contra 〈◊〉 Hard. confulat Apolo par 6 cap. 6. 〈◊〉 3. 1. 2. Q 96 Art 4. in fine 2. 2. Q. 104. 〈◊〉 6. 2. 2. Q 12. Art 2. Vide causa 15. Q 6. cap Nos sanctorum in cap. 〈◊〉 c 〈◊〉 26. 24. 25. 26. N. Saunders opion and dealing He calleth Moron the protector of England hee was the Popes Legate chiefe President of the 〈◊〉 Councel of Trent N. Sander in Epist Ad Cardin. Moron Lib. 7. De visib Monarch Eccles. Fol. 732. ante a fol. 688. ad fol. 712 ' c. Sand. in Epist dedicat praefixa lib. De visib 〈◊〉 Pope 〈◊〉 5. De visib 〈◊〉 Eccl. lib. 2. cap. 4. fol. 98. 79. Ibid. fol. 83. I thinke hee would say that the king proceed not in dooing wickedly De visib 〈◊〉 Lib. 7. fol. 730. 732. c. What had the pope to do with this Realme More busie than he had thankes for his labour What Legats talke you of and who stopt them A 〈◊〉 medicine of the Pope of Rome to depriue princes of their king domes to discharge subiects of obedience Lyke Pope Lyke 〈◊〉 More pompe solemnitie in the Pope then good diuinity or honestie The ground and cause of the insurrectiō in the north truely described Godly treason with great reason Iure publico For omnia 〈◊〉 bee in scrinio pectoris Papae Wel bould Tur pin wel guest Heere is a right true confessiō of a Romain catholike or Popish fayth Treason a confession of Catholike religion Grosse abuse of Gods holy scriptures A Fable of a 〈◊〉 myracle Still a Popish traiterous cōfession of a Popish faith A popish myracle to confirme Popish religiō it needes it greatly They are 〈◊〉 gone you may begin Placebo and 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 for their 〈◊〉 Somma Summarum 1 A new popish Antichristian Gospel Looke Math. 24. 24. 2. Thes. 2. 9. 10. c. 2 Lieng miracles wonders to confirme the same 3 A strāge trayterous confessiō of a Popish catholike faith 4 A bead roll of Popish confessors Martyrs al traitors and rebels Rom. 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 An. 1094. 1240. 1215. Thomas 〈◊〉 1211. Hee that list to see heereof more particularly besides the Actes Monum ētes and our English Chronicles and stories let him looke on the Apologie of the Church of Eng land the 6. part and last chapter and M. Iewels defence thereof Concil lateran sub Inno. 3. cap. 3 de 〈◊〉 The places are quoted before in your decrees D. Thomas caus 15. q. 〈◊〉 cap. Iuratos vt supra decretal 〈◊〉 de hereticis ad abolendam Vide 〈◊〉 extra in ca. cum non ab homine Felin de rescript cap. Rodolpbus Demaioritate obedientia vnam sanctam glos ibidem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 13. Anno. xxiii Reginae 〈◊〉 An act to retain the Queenes Maiesties subiects in their due obedience Cap. I. As the Apology of the Church of England Articles set forth by 〈◊〉 authoritie Homilies c. Wickliffe in his Trialogue Fol. 68. pag. 2. 〈◊〉 8. Sessione 11. Ioan. 23. Gregori 12. Benedict 13 Martin 5. Remember the story of the 〈◊〉 Howlet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lib. 7. De Concil 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 539. 538. Tom. 4. Conciliorum Bulla Apostolica Leonis 〈◊〉 aduersus 〈◊〉 Primae lutberi baereses Galat. 3. 28. Ab eo quod 〈◊〉 est secundum Quid ad id quod est simpli citer A non causart 〈◊〉 c. called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mat. 17. 25. 26. 2. 2. q. 104. * Seruitus qua bomo bomini subiicitur ad corpus pertinet now ad animam 〈◊〉 libera manet paulo ante ex 〈◊〉 in 3. de beneficiis Errat 〈◊〉 quis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in totū bominē descēdere pars enim melior excepta est Corpora obnoxia sunt ascripta Dominis Mens quidem est sui iuris ideo in his quoe pertinent ad interiorem motü voluntatis homo non tenetur homi ni obedire sed solum Deo c. Thom. A Vio Caietan Cardin. in summa D. Thom. 2. 2. Q. 104. super art 6. Defence of the Apology 4. part chap. 5. Diuis 1. c Esai 33. 22. Iam. 4. 12. Math. 22. 2. Mat. 10. 28. Luk. 12. 4. 5. 1. Cor. 7. 23. Gal. 5. 1. Gal. 3. 28. Colo. 3. 11. In the wordes is there that which in the schooles is called A fallation of the Accent 2. 2. Q. 104. Art 5. 6. c. Rom. 13. 5. Rom. 13. 1. c. Still a fallaciō from that which Aristotle calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to that which he calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 3. Cap. 19. sect 14. c. Defence of the Apologie I part Cap. 4. Diuis 1 c. The Alderman of Stamford the Comburgesses and the Recorder of the towne ministers and other of the countrey such as I haue 〈◊〉 Math. 6. Mat. 11. 16. 17. 18. 19. Luke 7. 35. Mark 2. 27. Iohn Story in the first Parlament of Queene Elizabeth This is reported euen by N. Saunders in Sto ries life devisibili Monarchia eccles Iere. 13. 23. Lewes 11. Pulcbrū est 〈◊〉 deludere Hyantes It is a pretie sporte to mocke the gaping Chaugh Ari st lib. 1. Rhe.
need to brag of your obedience towards your superiors But while you frame a good scholasticall argument to mainteine your Popish religion that teacheth and practiseth disobedience and rebellion against our common Soueraigne and Queene which will be a good while to I hauing spoken thus much in generall will further and more particularly therewhilest enter to speake of your doctrine and demeanour heerein Then will I so much as shall be necessarie answere to those particulars ye obiect here against vs our religion And yet here entring into a large fielde to rip vp your corrupt doctrine and rebellious demeanour towardes princes there is so much matter to treate of that in suche plentie it is harde to keepe measure to giue ouer and come out againe wherof notwithstanding I must haue special regarde and minde so to doe This haue I to desire you not to bee offended with all If I be any where founde in the matter to vse the same lawe towardes you that you doe towardes vs. For your doctrine therefore of obedience and demeanour also first I must admonishe without you were better that we may not call you that bee the children of the Pope and Popishe religion at this day to the Apostles doctrine and their rule and practise set vs downe in the scriptures at the beginning the things bee too vnequall and we may be no bolder with you then so farre as your Churche teacheth you and your supreme Pastors voyce that is the Pope calleth you herein and yet here fal some good words from you contrary to the rest of your doctrine set vs down in your bookes and your demeanour at this day towardes our soueraigne I heare what glorious shewe your words haue and I see you set vs downe in your margin Rom. 13. Which heauenly doctrine we receiue we teach we stedfast ly holde and practise The Scriptures are the foundation and grounde of our profession we can not we may not we will not refuse them our bookes as publique recordes testifie the same Euery soule must bring euery mothers child of yours to be subiect to our Soueraigne Queene as to the chiefe it is not spoken to lay men as your glose vpō the decretals expoundeth it* But I see you sende vs further in your margin to Saint Thomas and om Doct. that is all your doctors there is a Vide afore it that is a watche worde to looke vpon the matter As for Augustin Chrysostom Ambros. that come after your D. Tho. om Doct. They teache all one doctrine heerein with the Apostles and therefore trying that they say by that rule finding it conformable wee receiue it w t their iust cōmendation They are no Popishe teachers but better expoūders of the scriptures morefaithful sounde in this point the your late schole Doctors bicause M. How bidsvs looke I wish the reader that vnderstandeth Latin to looke and see their Popishe doctrine of the authoritie of a King or Emperour in the Decretalles hee shall see howe the Pope playeth legerdemain falsefieth the Scriptures and doeth worse if worse may bee shewing what spirite hee is ledde with If that chapter and the glose were in English it would lothe any Christian eares And again looke Dist. xcvi And yet many of that age are somewhat more indifferent teachers and dealers than you whot and bad Catholikes bee for the most parte nowe adayes that so grossely folowe the Pope and Poperie that by writings dooings ye stirre him vp and raise sedition against our natural Soueraigne Prince and yours and this State and Realme too vnnaturally vnduetifully and vnchristianly Iwis I haue looked syr as your Authour whome you followe willeth vpon the place of your S. Tho. wee are sent vnto In seeking I finde neuer a word of this matter of Magistrats and obedience there as which deuided into three Articles treateth of the vsing of Gods name in adiuring which belongeth to the thirde commaundement but you following your Authour in citing and quoting places who for his greate haste in wryting had not tyme to suruiew or reede any parte of his treatise ouer againe and is therefore according to his request to bee borne withall it may bee you were deceiued also with him But let that goe as a small matter Tell vs your selues to what place of D. Thom. you sende vs rather than to that you name In the meane while as you and your Authour say and set vs downe one and the selfe same thing So your D. Thom. by your leaue where in his summe he treateth of that argumēt disagreeth from you both which that the reader may some what perceiue thogh I lyke not to be so occupied I wil shortly set down both your words some parte of his also Thus your Authour whome you follow The Catholyke churche hath alwayes taught her children that how hardly soeuer their Prince should deale with them yet are they bounde to beare it patiently obay him for conscience sake as substitute of God placed in that roome for their punishement if he rule not wel which apertaineth not to the sub iect to iudge of Good wordes howe cōmeth it to passe that you Catholikes vse not your selues thus towards her Maiestie then how commeth it to passe that your fellowes in their bookes printed abroade teache otherwise stirre vp sedition here then Ye shewe your selues to bee another Baalams or Cayphas children whose mouths must serue the holy Ghost at this time to vtter y e trueth though the instrument meanes be very vnfit the whole serue your side to litle purpose who elsewhere teache practise the contrary Be not angrie at the comparison your owne side 〈◊〉 Popish Prelates to Baalam Cayphas But your D. Thom. to whom you send vs disputing whether mans law put necessitte on vs in the Court of conscience and hauing obiected to the contrarie as his manner is out of the tenth of Esay Wo be to them that make vniust lawes c. Hee answereth and saith that that place speaketh of a lawe that laieth an vniust burden vpon subiects whereunto the order of power graunted of God streacheth not it self Wherfore in such cases man is not bounde to obay the lawe if hee bee able to resist without Scandale that I may keepe his word and your treatises or greater detriment And againe wee must say that a man is bound so farre to obay secular princes as the order of Iustice requyreth And therefore if they haue not iust but vsurped principalitie or if they commande vniust things their subiects are not bounde to obay them except peraduenture by some accident for the auoyding of scandale or danger and can yee make that obedience for conscience sake Againe in another place agreeing with the Decrees and alledging the authoritie of Pope Gregory the seuenth hee wryteth as perillously for her Maiestie and this state and all one with that which y e wicked
peter or Peters successour binde vpon earth bee also bounde in heauen whensoeuer Peters successor of right and equitie commaunde any king eyther to leaue his Royall dignitie which hee so affected vniustly holdeth or to stoppe and hinder another king by all the meanes hee can which hindereth a faythful people from eternal life least hee perishe in doing wickedly that king is also bounde in heauen that is before God and his Angels to obay the chief Pontifical bishops decree except hee will haue his sinnes holden not forgiuen before God c. Heere is in general tearmes your Catholike doctrine truly set downe by Saūders who sent I trowe frō y e Pope tooke a long iourney into Ireland where of late it is 〈◊〉 hee was and still is to stirre vppe lyke a Capitaine and incourage the Trayterous hearts that he might meete with and to see this doctrine of Pope holines reuerently obayed and put in practise so farre as hee might against this state for the which purpose serued also your late flocking hether in sholes from beyonde Sea much about the same tyme and your more publishing of sedicious libelles than a good while before As lykewyse in the yeere 1569. Nicholas Morton an Englishe rennegate Priest the Popes Penitentiary at Rome was sent sayth Saunders by the Pope into England where hee deserued ywis to 〈◊〉 crackt a rope to stirre vp the Nobilitie against our Soueraigne to doe such other most vile offices c. Whose counsaile they that folowed in the North felt the iust rewarde smarte of rebels for their rebellion as the Romishe Irlanders did in folowing Saunders and his fellowes coūsailes of late Here the Popish obedience your Catholike Religion teacheth practiseth commeth in fitly and hath his proper place Now that this Popish merchants opiniō meaning towards her Maiestie this state in particular may be y e better knowē out of his general doctrine before deliuered Let vs heare yet furder himself in this one place only no more speake therof When the Apostolique sea sawe that Elizabeth was fallen from the Churche and that the whole Realme of England was therby become Schismatical it sent once or twise Legates into England to recal that nation backe againe to their duetie but there was not so much as a way open for those Legates to enter into the Island so farre were they of from obtayning any thing which being thus after ten yeeres amendement looked for and now almost despaired of Pius the 5. the chief bishop turning to that only medicine which could bee applyed to so great a disease In the yeere of our Lorde 1569. hee sent into England the reuerende priest Nicholas Morton an Englishe man a Doctor of Diuinitie one of his Penitentiary priests solemnely by Apostolique authoritie to declare to certaine noble and Catholike mē that Elizabeth which then gouerned was an Heretique and for that cause was by the very lawe fallen from al superioritie and power which shee then vsed ouer Catholikes and that she might lawfully be taken of them as an heathen Publican that they were not hēceforth bound to obay her lawes or commandements By which solemne declaration many noble men were brought so farre that they prouided not onely for themselues but tooke vpon thē also to deliuer their brethrē frō the tyrānie of heretikes May not we here iustlier charge M Howlets Catholike Religion his Pope his Bul. N. Morton Saunders their doctrine with teaching practising rebellion than he doth Luther and his doctrine Your floures of Rhetorique M. Howlet will hardly washe this geere away reade marke and iudge of the whole vprightly Now they hoped saith Saunders that al Catholikes woulde w t all their force haue assisted so godly a purpose But althogh the matter fel out otherwise than they looked for either because all Catholikes did not yet well knowe that Elizabeth was by publike Lawe declared to bee an heretike or else because God had decreed more sharply to punish so great a defection of that kingdome yet not withstanding those noble mens counsels or enterprises were to be commended which wanted not their sure and happy successe for although they coulde not bring al their brethrens soules out of the pit of Schisme yet both they thēselues did notably confesse the Catholike religiō many of them did giue their liues for their brethren But very fewe noble men by your leaue those taken rather through Gods prouidence by force than willingly yeelding themselues which is the highest degree of loue to doe as traytors the rest rid thēselues frō the bondage both of heresie sin into that libertie wherewith Christ hath freed vs y t they are become Satans sins slaues al the dayes of their life In old time S. Bernard had exhorted the Christians to goe to Ierusalem and yet was not the East Churche deliuered by that voyage but they rather which went about to deliuer their brethren from the yoke of the Saracenes died themselues a glorious death Nowe after he hath rehearsed at large a Munkishe myracle out of Godfry a Munke to shewe that that voyage to Hierusalem was approued of God Antichristes newe Gospel must and needeth to be confirmed by new myracles Thus he speaketh of the rebelles in the 〈◊〉 against her Maiestie and the State Who nowe but hee that is ignorant of Gods counselles whereof belike this good fellowe is very priuie dare say that that confession of faith proceeded not from God which certaine Noble men of Englande made in armes He meaneth the late Earles of Westmerland Northumberlande and their adherentes Surely that must needes bee counted a myracle saith hee that being almost fiue hundred of them which tooke armes for the fayth so reporteth hee of the Northren traytours which taken by the heretikes and put to death so calleth he the State and her Maiesties ministers of iustice there None of them was foūd which either forsooke the Catholike faith or accused the Authors of that warre of any fault They were very innocent and blamelesse sure vnder pretence of their popishe faith and religion to take the sword in hand against their dread soueraigne and ours they must be so supposed though this be iu deede most lewde in the highest degree And this man either was among them and verie priuie to euery one of their deathes or els which is most likely hee tooke thē report at their friendes mouthes and his at seconde or thirde hande at least But many of them being a litle before reconciled to the vnitie of the Church were well apayed and greatly reioysed in themselues that they shoulde depart this life before they shoulde with newe wickednesse defile the peace hee meaneth their reconcilement to the Romishe Church newely receiued and they wished not to liue any longer in that kingdome which nowe a good while had ceassed to liue in Christe
make mention of and suche as your Authour or you seeme to promise shall followe and to shewe that the proceedings of your Catholike part bee not so quiet modest as is in wordes to her Maiestie heere pretended neither they such important a stay in euery of her Maiesties Countries as is heere iollily bragged Though vppon occasion I haue beene rounde in this matter and it may seeme sharpe that I here vtter yet let the matter bee well wayed and I shall not bee founde I trust to haue exceeded the bounds of truth and charitie I protest that I meane not to excite or stirre vp my Soueraigne to any crueltie or the State or any of authoritie heere though on the other side I bee so farre of from disliking of iustice and execution of wholesome lawes that though the same turne to the hurt and mischiefe of some yet I like that better then that an inconuenience should grow to the publike state Let mē looke to themselues but that it is not requisite or needefull nor my part to deale in prescribing nor yet in aduising the wisedome of those that rule this State I am so farre of from hastening any particular mans vndoing that I wold wishe which I am assured is without mee thought of and sought that all meanes might bee vsed to the recalling of men home conferrence and other before execution especially of death And is it not so I doe but preuent the aduersaries cauill and shewe my purpose and meaning I neede not nor list not to wade any further heerein The particular rebellions in the North Irelande and such other sturs from time to time by your Catholike part as to well knowne to all men I here omit Further to diduct and come now to answere that which is obiected in this behalfe to vs by the aduersarie whiche generally consisteth as the former in doctrine and demeanour For our doctrine of Magistrats obedience as we professe no other then that which is set vs foorth and plainly layed vs down in the holy scriptures So I marueile agayne that M. Howlet beyng an Englishe man leaueth out those publique testimonies and wrytinges of our 〈◊〉 in this matter whiche to the viewe of the worlde are published by this Church both in Latine and Englishe to expresse their iudgement herein and chargeth our doctrine with particular mens bookes and teachings of late yeres to bring hatred and displeasure or spitefully to wrecke and reuenge himself vpon some one man if he can doe no more where of though some be aliue yet others are dead so can not answere for thēselues but their books must be their clering to all y t world If the godly doctrine we professe here had bin by you read with a single heart before rash iudgemēt wel weighed as in y e bookes aforesaid is declared you would haue forborne I take it these words y t our final end is as our doctrine declareth To haue no gouernour or ruler at all Whence you tooke this doctrine you y t are so ful of quotatiōs here quote vs nothing And we tell you plainly y t things deuised by your brame or picked out of your fingers ends be none of our doctrine wee say it is a great and vntrue slander ye charge this Church with Her Maiestie though diuers times disturbed in her State by you false Catholiks hath raigned in a Gospelling time nowe aboue twenty yeres as chiefe gouernor by y t doctrine of y t Gospel ruler ouer y t professors thereof in much honor great quiet highly to Gods glory her Maiesties singular cōmendation y t exceeding comfort of all true harted englishe mē her Maiesties natural most bonden subiects and many moe yeres may shee raigne we dayly do beseech y t almighty to y t promoting of Christs holy Gospel y t benefit of his Church her own comfort honor Though it be to y t regret renting of all popish Catholike hearts in Christendome To charge our doctrine about Magistates w tall you set vs down three or foure sentēces takē out of three worthie men Christes faithfull souldiers and seruantes in their time The first is M. John Wickliffe one of our progenitours say you one of the singular instrumentes that it pleased God in his time to vse for the aduauncement of his Gospel say we and so rare a one that hee might iustly bee counted among the rest a bright starre shining and giuing light to a great many to their inestimable comfort he opened long since such a wicket as greatly profited the postetitie in Gods matters The seconde whom you alleadge is Doctor Martin Luther whose rare and excellent giftes euery way mightily both astonished the highest of your side in state Ecclesiastical and 〈◊〉 and no lesse furthered and profited Gods cause and encouraged all the godly by his godly and learned writings and otherwise The thirde is that odde and incomparable man of our time The reuerende Father and most painefull and faithfull Pastor and Teacher in Christes Church M John Caluin Whom thogh your heart swelt you can not discredite among Gods seruantes nor iustly staine his trauailes and writings left among vs for the benefite of Gods Church so hath it pleased his maiestie to blesse this good mans labours The Diuell I confesse as in other hath beene very busie in his instruments to deface and disgrace this excellent man diuers wayes but euer their mischiefes returned vpon their owne pates and they euen as many as haue risen and bent thēselues against him haue had the foyle to their shame Although wee highly prayse God for these men and for his great gifts in them as in others giuing them likewise their due cōmēdation as reasō is yet would I y t you M. Howlet and your fellowes shoulde knowe we make none of them nor them all our Pope to depende of them and their authoritie ne yet the Authours of our religion as you do the man of sinne at Rome But we reserue this priuiledge to Jesus Christ alone w tout being addicted to any mans doctrine or writings for faith and religion further then he shal teach vs by canonicall scriptures All these men are dead gone ye might haue let them rest in peace w tout slanderously charging them if it had so pleased you M. Howlet But it shall not be amisse to enter into particular examination of that ye say first therefore let vs see what it is yee charge M. Wickliffe withall and howe you doe it Iohn Wickliffe say you one of their progenitors teacheth that a Prince if he rule euill or fal into mortal sinne is no longer prince but that his subiects may rise against him and punish him at their pleasures If Wyckliffe should haue holden any errour the times wherein he liued considered it were not greatly to be marueyled at God rather is highly to be praysed that in so corrupt and blinde times he sawe and helde the truth in
his iudgement in that matter ye should haue repaired and sent vs to y e place where at large of purpose he ētreateth thereof which he doth in the twentie or last chapter of the fourth booke of his Institution expressely handlyng there the heauenly authoritie of Magistrates and the duetie of good and obedient subiectes whiche Chapter is written wholly of Politique gouermnent Wherein M. Howlet prooue him if you can to haue written vngodly seditiously or vntruely No as hee writeth very godly and with great authoritie of scriptures and reason so doth he very reuerently and modestly also if any other writer old or new as they say doe so after another manner and sort then eyther you here doe to her Maiestie for all your flattering floures or then your sort haue of late or now doe of Princes and 〈◊〉 els where I woulde wishe the godly and christian reader to bee well acquainted with this M. Caluins writings and I doubt not to affirme to bee true here that was else where saide Let him thinke he hath greatly 〈◊〉 in matters of religion who is brought into a loue and liking of Caluins writings And yet I make neither him my God nor his writings my Byble for all this reuerent thinking and speaking of him and his writings Euen in this matter of Magistrates I praye thee gentle reader looke but into that last Chapter and thou shalt see it shal be hard for thee to read else where 〈◊〉 or profoūder iudgement of a diuine for the excellent dignitie of ciuill Princes and Magistrates or for subiectes and priuate mens obedience to thy satisfaction and contentmēt and to be able with all to confute whateuer M. Howlet or his side can cauill against this seruaunt of GOD or Christes religion here 〈◊〉 I will not nowe stande in diducting this matter but note thus much by the way and nowe come M. Howlet to answere your glenings and pyckings out of his writings In the 10. Chapter of the 4. booke of his Institution he treateth of the authoritie of the Churche in making lawes and of the Popes and popishe Prelates tyrannie ouer mens consciences in that behalfe and namely handling this question whether it be lawfull for the Church by her lawes to binde mens consciences he freely inueigheth against your popish Churches licentiousnes in that behalf without any whit preiudicing politique order onely reseruing mens soules and consciences free to bee spiritually guided by God Christ and his holy woorde in the matters appertayning to the soules health and saluation Nowe M. Howlet if this doctrine mislike you that mens soules and consciences should be aboue the cōpasse of mens authoritie and lawes then condemne our 〈◊〉 Christ the Prophetes and Apostles with M. Caluin who make one spirituall Judge King Lorde and Lawgiuer ouer mens soules that is able to saue and destroy willing vs so to giue to Ceasar those thinges that are Caesars that we giue to God the thinges that are Gods to feare him that hath authoritie to cast into hell and to destroy both soule and body there Whereas men what power soeuer they haue ouer the body afterwarde can doe nothing more nor are not able to kill the soule Againe Yee are bought with a price be not the seruantes of men Stande in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made vs free and be not intangled agayne with the yoke of bondage In the kingdome of God there is neyther Iewe nor Grecian circumcision nor vncircumcision bonde nor free male nor female but ye are all one in Christ he is all in all thinges And yet in place may this distinction bee made and must also be as I noted before Your faulte herein is that yee distinguishe not aright betweene the ciuill and outwarde Courte and the Spirituall Courte of conscience as they speake and Maister Caluin here noteth and else where also howe euer your Fafather and Church haue taken vpon them to deale with mens consctences which is Gods seat to sit and rule there wherein they shewe what they bee yet neither our 〈◊〉 nor other ciuill Princes vsurpe so much ouer Gods right that is proper to Antechrist and your faction Concerning the first Article your corruption and false collection therein are so shamelesse that they may be easily espied I wishe the reader to haue but recourse to the place ye quote to finde out your trecherie or false allegatiō in peruerting the authours woordes and sense to be able to answere the same Excellently well doth M. Caluin in that place defining and treating of conscience reconcile these two pointes togethcr First that mens consciences for their spirituall gouernment are aboue mens reaches reserued only to God which also in time of ignorance as y e said M. Caluin sayth was seene and obserued by your Popish writers though practise were to the contrary as may name ly be seene in your Saint Thomas Next that we must bee subiect to our ciuill Magistrates and that for conscience sake according to the doctrine of the Apostle not so much respecting the thinges commaunded or forbidden by them which of them selues touche not conscience as the generall ende and commandement of the eternall God that hath appointed this order and willed vs by his commandement to be subiect to autoritie And this is it the Apostle tendeth to in his epistle to the Romanes so as leauing your caueling in wordes and syllables if you coulde and woulde distinguishe betwene the ciuill Courte and the court of conscience and betweene generall and particular as M. Caluin speaketh All scrupule auoyded this matter might bee eased and better matter gathered from this godly wryter then you too 〈◊〉 pretende to bee there The booke being both in Englishe and in Latine let the reder iudge of the whole you M. Howlet and your fellowes shall neuer be able to stayne M. Caluin and his doctrine nor cleare your selues from malice c. while you liue if you deale plainely Set vs downe the booke Chapter Section and Caluins wordes for we haue no cause other wise to trust you as you doe your fellowes The second place or article that yee take out of Caluin is so plaine true as I maruell what yee meant to charge him therewith for speaking of Christian libertie hee saith That the consciences of the faithfull are exempted from the power of all men by reason of the libertie giuen thē by Christ so as they are not to be intangled in the snares of constitutions in those things wherein the Lord would haue them free But adde I pray you as hee doth there That as the matter is very worthie and meete to bee knowne so needeth it a large and plaine declaration by reason of the adoe that partly seditious persons partly quarell pickers make as though all obedience of men which is not meant were thereby also taken away and ouerthrowne To preuent this inconuenience doth maister Caluin there a
large entreate of Christian libertie the consciences of the faithfull as he doth in the other place of maister Caluin cited by you before and by this your misdealing doe wee see how necessary it was often and much to beate in that point In summe we say spirituall libertie in Christe and Politike subiection to Magistrates and Supertours may and doe very well agree and both are taught vs in the Scriptures and haue their place of practise From slaundering of these men that are dead commeth M. Howlet to those that are aliue Whose names hee quoteth downe in his margin mentioning a writing made in the dayes of Queene Marie which he doth but touche and I thinke needelesse to stay thereon considering the thinge being aforetime obtected by M. Harding hath been fully answered vnto by y e reuerend father of blessed memory Maister Iewell late Bishop of Sarisburie as is that of maister Luther before I perceiue that M. Howlet goeth all by report and heare say and seeketh to winne grace by 〈◊〉 other And where wisemen are wont diligently to respect circumstances in all doings he such is his humor throughout his Epistle careth neither what when nor in whom he reprooue so he may finde somwhat to carpe at in any professours of the Gospell I woulde M. Howlet for his owne sake were but so faithfull a seruant of God and her Maiestie and did but halfe so vprightly walke in his calling in zelously aduauncing the Gospell of Christe and dutifully obeying our Soueraigne as the men he nameth to their great commendation in singular modestie and vpright conscience at this day trauell to doe with no small fruite to the Churche and people of God among vs howe euer he obiect old matters to so worthy fathers M. howlets conclusion of this part of charging master Wickliffe mastar Luther master Caluin and the rest is that the Catholike Churche vtterly condemneth all these errours and teacheth her children otherwise and the contrary Nowe I aske M. Howlet if he exempt not the consciences of y t faithfull from Princes lawes and the power of all men with master Luther master Caluin how it commeth to passe that he and his felowes exempt themselues from her Maiesties obedience vnder pretence only of conscience as euen in the leafe before this we haue in hand in the name of y t 〈◊〉 he craueth pardon at her Maiesties hands for not yeelding to such conformitie in matters of religion as is demaunded at their hands which they cannot doe but by offence of their cōsciences c. And the end of all in him his authour is y t her Maiestie must take their disobedience refusall of conformitie for a ful satisfaction because they alleadge conscience Nowe if this among other bee an errour condemned by the Catholike Churche that the consciences of y t faithfull be exempted from the power of all men c. Why doe you being Catholikes as yee say follow it Why doe you make that your pretence Why doe you dwell therein If Princes lawes binde subiects to obedience in conscience so as they may not be exempted for their consciences but y t they must obey them as God himselfe whose roome they possesse and that vnder paine of mortall sinne and eternall damnation how hardly soeuer their Princes deale with thē in their gouernment c. Why learne you not that lesson Why reforme you not your consciences by Gods word that God and her Maiestie may haue due obedience of her Subiects which shee requireth and no more without complaining murmuring this bitter accusing ye tel her Maiestie of errors your selues run into thē headlong Ye wil by no meanes with Luther haue Christians free exempted from Princes lawes no not in their conseiences and yet by meanes of conscience you will exempt your selues what shoulde I say like not that in your selues yee condemne in other The difference gentle Reader betweene vs and them is as thou mayest perceiue that wee exempt mens consciences from all mortall men to giue them to God aboue alone to be guided by his holy worde no other wise which in deede her maiestie alloweth well of slaunder these fellowes what they can herein for her title of supreme gouernour ouer her subiects They without any warrant of Gods worde exempt not conscience but pretended or that they call conscience from dutifulnes to God and their lawfull Prince and Soueraigne in God to giue it to the Pope induced therto because they see her Maiestie to leaue mens consciences free vntouched hauing a tender care great respect therof Where conscience is in deed though it be but weake according to the doctrine of y t Scriptures Gospell where shee learned this not frō popery Pope to whose supreme authoritie grounded vpon suppositiōs false principles these coūterfeited Catholiks haue by reconcilement and oth betaken thēselues according to their rottē religion so defrauding God her Maiestie of their due abusing their Soueraigne authoritie themselues greatly After this commeth M. Howlet to note our demeanour heere passing other as hee saith hee setteth vs downe at large a matter doone the last Sommer at Stamforde and dwelling therin he reprooueth both the doctrine of certaine Preachers there and their demeanour also whereof he maketh no small a doe seditious pretendeth he was the doctrine there taught seditious was the vsage and yet I trowe nothing like to that of theirs in the North in Irelande nor that which I haue described before It is happy God made not him the Prince of this lande nor any of the State otherwise I perceiue the poore men had beene trounced he giueth sentence as though the matter were his owne when nothing was there doone against him and as for her Maiestie and the State they call not for his help in the gouernment heere But I see M. Howlet is still like himselfe that is past shame els woulde he haue blushed to haue spoken so vntruly of a matter so lately doone and so publikely in the face of all the worlde but let vs see what hee saith first he entreth into this matter to quitte as hee speaketh the Puritan that hath so infamed the Catholiks Therefore he thinketh good to diffame him againe Hee hath slaundered you M. Howlet with a matter in trouth as wee haue seene And you cannot forget an iniurie if it were one yee must needes bee quite with the Puritan Alas poore Puritan but it is happie your handes bee bound that yee can doe him no more harme haue you not powred out your spight enough against him before to be quitte with him You play as the Dogge doth that when a stone is flung at him runneth after the stone and for reuenge catcheth the same in his mouth When yee can finde no more matter in the man to raile vpon you immagine he sendeth out Preachers yee call them at Stamforde his Preachers Preachers at this day the more is the pitie
in his sight or before him all the dayes of their life that is so and in such order as hee in his holy worde appoynteth and auoweth If any bee in Christe he is a newe creature Saith the Apostle c. How far differeth this holy doctrine of God as meeter and better for Christians to receiue from that prophane sentence of M. Howlet that is onely good to euery man which eche mans vnderstanding telleth him to bee good c. Is it euen so in deede fie of that diuinitie the holy Ghostes diuinitie you see is cleane contrarie It is yet further written There is none that vnderstandeth there is none that seeketh God all are gone out of the way c. And againe I will destroy the wisedome of the wise and wil cast away the vnderstanding of the prudent Hath not God made the wisdome of the world foolishnesse c. The wisedome of the flesh is enimitic agianst God death c. O Lorde I knowe saith the Prophet that the way of man is not in him selfe neither is it in man to walke and to direct his steppes And therefore the heauenly wise man sayth further also All the wayes of a man are cleane or right in his owne eyes But the Lorde pondereth the Spirites And this made the heauenly Prophet and king though hee were very wise yet leauing his owne vnderstanding to haue recourse herein to GOD by prayer Thy handes haue made mee and fashioned me giue me vnderstanding that I may learne thy commandements the steppes of a man are ruled by the Lorde howe can a man then vnderstande his owne way sayth Salomon And the reason is rendred elsewhere All the imaginations or deuices of the thoughts of mans heart sayth God in Moses are onely euill continually And againe The Lorde knoweth the thoughtes of man that they are vanitie And the Apostle yet further The Lorde knoweth that the thoughtes of the wise bee vaine The hearte is deceitfull and euill aboue all thinges who can knowe it c. Better a great deale and more consonant to the doctrine of the scriptures than you spake that olde father of the Greeke Church when comparing mans vnderstanding w t diuinity diuine matters he said There can be nothing worse than to goe about to discerne measure Gods matters with mans reason for so falleth euery one from the foundation of faith and is caried farre wandering about with errour and is forsaken of the light c. You see it is blasphemie sayth he in another place to go about to discusse diuine matters with reasō so hath mans reasō compared to Gods matters nothing common or agreable If we shal finally consider sayth he in y t former places that Marciō Manes Valētinus other that brought in wicked heresies pernicious doctrins into the church measured diuine thinges with humane reason looke vpon your owne fathers M. Howlet and take them by the hand We shall finde that so at length they became ashamed of the misterie of the holy incarnation c. Whose heresies also elsewhere he fathereth for their beginning vpon the Gentiles Philosophers Augustine also a latin doctor retracting that which he had aforetime too philosophically written hereof against the Academikes saith thus as touching mans nature there is nothing better in him then vnderstanding and reason but he that will liue a blessed life must not liue according to that for so liueth he after the manner of a man where he should liue agreablie to God to attaine to happines to come whereunto the vnderstanding or minde may not be contented with it selfe but must be subiect to God c Amongst many other let this here suffice to shewe generally how well mans reason or vnderstanding agreeth with God good diuinitie and religion For your Philosophers sentence taken out of Aristotles Rhetorique which you make so great account of in diuinitie Let vs examine it yet a little more First M. Howlet which hath beene and is your common fault you cite not your sentence truly out of the Philosopher if ye read it not there your self be better aduised another time if you knew the matter willingly peruerted it your fault is the greater Leaue therefore both these faultes or else giue vs leaue to reprooue both in you Looke vpon your place in Aristotle consider his purpose which is to shewe whence a man may take his proofes in consultation referring the same to profit which is his drift and this profite he calleth good Then let the reader hardly examine and confer Aristotles wordes with M. Howlets Thus finde I Aristotle in this matter amongst diuers other things that profit and help in doing matters wherof me consult some simplie and acknowledged amongst all some in parte for certaine respect allowed of some men al which he calleth good as w t him good is diuided into honest profitable and pleasant thinges Whatsoeuer thinges sayth hee vnderstanding would deliuer to euery one whatsoeuer things the vnderstanding of in or about euery thing deliuereth that is to euery mā or to euery thing good he doth notsay that onely is good which reckoneth vp a great sort of markes to knowe good by Besides neither doth he say eche mans vnderstanding and so include corrupt mens vnderstanding how bad soeuer it be as in religion you doe heere Heathen men Turkes Infidels and your selues Papistes c. In ciuil things vnderstanding needeth to be ciuill you knowe Aristotle in the matter of vertue and good speaketh oftē and much of right and good reason and yee heare of a sounde minde in a sound body among the very heathen Neither yet doth he confound a mans vnderstanding with the testimony of Conscience Furthermore Aristotle can distinguishe this word good as ye know not into honest pleasant and profitable thinges onely but into thinges good indeede and apparantly good simply and generally and of it selfe good and sometime particularly and good to vs c these thinges and such other circumstances are necessary to bee knowne to vnderstand rightly euen in philosophie the sentence ye fetch out of Aristotles Rhetorique Agayne wee must knowe hee speaketh of good in his rhetorique as it is the subiect or matter of an Oratour And what is that to speake of good as it belongeth to diuinitie and a Diuine or to a Christian who for his actions or doinges must fetch from God and his will and approbation that that is good and trie it by the Touch of his worde and Lawe which is our only rule to know good and bad by not our owne vnderstanding It were not to be maruelled at then though Aristotle as a philosopher and wise heathen man making vnderstanding and reason as it were a Queene or Prince in this little world man to sit in his minde for doing ciuill thinges to rule prescribe command order and make lawee
this Treatile for them and take paynes to set downe Reasons for the due reforming of them being in better hope then of the former but if all thinges bee well considered there will bee found falshood in felowship and very hollow dealing You cut them off from you and yet you woulde fayne holde them in still what opinion you hot Catholikes haue of all besides your selues euen such of your owne side whom ye speake farest vnto let me be bolde shortly to giue here a taste Generally you count no better of all them that goe to Churche heere for what respect soeuer other then such as the Pope will allowe whereof you speake and we shall see more in your qualifications afterwardes then of Apostataes renouncers of the Catholike religion perfidious betrayers of Gods Catholike cause traytours to God no Christians Heathen men and Publicanes c. And yet good sir all these as badde as they bee are byrdes of one feather and one neste Schollers of your owne teaching and none of our religion yea they defie it as you suppose hollowe geare still and nothing but hollowe Catholikes All the Catholikes in Englande that goe to Church directly denie their religion yea the yeelding therein is a flatte and euident denying of God and of his fayth And yet they remaine be accounted Catholiks stil what a religion call you that wherein men may denie not onely their religion but God and his fayth too and yet be of the religion stil Your Catholikes you speake of be such yet bee they in your heape still that is Catholikes and of the Catholike Religion They bee out of the Church so without hope of Saluation Scismatikes excommunicate persons and yet Catholiks still and of no other religion A good religion sure and a commendable is that they holde who bee Atheists and godlesse men in your opinion if they be not which directly and slatly renounce God and his fayth and yet iudge all other religions false and erronious besides their owne opinion and will neuerthelesse communicate with the same for some worldly respect and condenme other that will not doe as they doe Nowe if Athiests c. bee Catholikes I can not tell what to make of you Catholikes you bee neyther fishe nor fleshe nor yet I weene good redde hering as they say the wrong and perillous perswaūon that these men are sayde here to bee in builded onely on their owne fantasie may beseeme a fantasticall religion not grounded on Gods woorde but on vnwrttten verities traditions doctrines of men custom multitude c. as popery is Litle reformatiō as hithetto may serue such a deformed religion for these two sortes of Catholikes as you call them wee thinke yee doe in the one as in the other that is but imagine and goe all by supposition it is your Clearklie dealing whereof you heare what I say The aduise that I can giue them is that they leaue not only that perillous perswasion of communicating with contrary Religions but also and principally their Popery and the opinion they haue of that religion which as the rest is builded onely on fantasie Nowe haue wee viewed your Catholikes that you haue set vs here downe agreeing all in Poperie though but ill fauouredly and among them selues also hardely if your reasons following proceede from such a Catholike minde as you haue described vs in these men surely they are hollowe and can carrie no great waight with them with such as liue here in her maiesties dominions I verily think they can litle or nothing at all preuaile if they haue especially any wisedome or feare of God before their eyes for them y t being in heart of your religion do cleane contrary thervnto I wot not howe easily they will be led by you but surely if they will depende vppon God and his woorde they neede neither feare your threates nor regarde your Reasons for any value or waight that is in the same But before I enter into the particular examination of your nine Reasons hauing respect to the rude and simple sort I wil make bolde to set downe a reason contrary vnto yours whereby I meane to shewe that all men here liuing if they bee not too farre gone are bounde to haunt Church assemblies and the exercises of Religion vsed among vs. And yet before I set downe my reason both for the iust defence and cleering of her Maiestie and the State heere against such quarelpikers as you be And also for y t better satisfiyng of all her Maiesties duetifull subiectes and people I say to gods glory y t her maiestie y t state haue not pretēded to renounce Poperie a hollowe and rotten religion grounded vpon whatsoeuer not vppon Gods holie worde surely contayned in the Canonicall Scriptures as at this day is cleare to all that haue eyes to see to establishe another Religion though not so badde as Poperie yet not auowable deuised eyther by her selfe or by any other men but professeth to set vp the onely true religion of Iesus Christ taken out of the Scriptures Her Maiestie and the State haue and doe declare to the worlde dayly that in steede of mens inuentions and glorious shewes or voluntary Religion and will woorship as the Apostle noteth Superstition Shee and they esteeme the worde of God alone to bee the foundation of true religion The Apologie of this Church of Englande The Articles of religion set foorth by publike authoritie and suche other writings doe sufficiently proue this godly purpose and meaning and euen of late in the proclamation for the recalling home of her Maiesties subiectes from beyonde the seas c. is the same by expresse words mencioned None though the Papistes and enemies woulde make the worlde beleeue so are here called to the King and Queenes religion but with her Maiestie all degrees and persons are called to Gods and Christes true religion onely which shee with her people professeth Actes of Parliament and Statutes are not set into Churches in steade of Masse bookes Grayles Legends Portuises Images c. But the Sacred Byble the booke of the High and Immortall God of Heauen faithfully translated into the mother tongue to be read expounded heard and vnderstood of all to the vnspeakable comfort her Maiesties Ciuill Ministers As counsellers Judges Justices and so forth are not the Churche Ministers but spiritual Pastors and Teachers which are and by faithfull preaching ought to shewe themselues to bee the faythfull Ministers of Christ Iesus the Prince of Pastours or Shepheard and Byshop of our Soules Her Maiestie hath not taken away the Popes Antichristian office and vsurped tytle here to set her selfe in his place nor to take on the other side Christes office in hande or to infeoffe her selfe of his titles who leaueth euen to Christs Ministers their proper functions and charges whole of preaching the worde administring the Sacraments publike prayer Church discipline how euer this wrangler and his fellowes would beare the worlde in hande
house citie and kingdome among men But this when it shal please God wil be as vnto vs al most comfortable so vnto our superiours very glorious and honourable to the procurement and continuance of Gods fauour and liberall blessings long among vs. I enter not into particulars because I am not to prescribe nor yet to distrust the Godlines wisedome and care of so religious a Prince and state as God hath giuen vs. For the rest therfore as in this imperfection and weakenes of mankind and the hardnes of the worke these cogitations these meditations these endeuours are in this case worthy and very necessary and meete for Christian Princes states and publique persons in Church and common welth often and much to bee occupied in euery one according to their place and calling so prouiding that they and their people Gods Churche bee not abused with mens inuentions and dreames in steede of Gods pure and holye worde So againe subiectes and priuate persons where this matter is attempted and taken in hand with vantage and to Gods glory with paine care laboured in dayly haue not onely with all thankefulnes and reuerent dutifulnes to acknowledge and accept this great blessing and goodnes of God in and by our Prince state with helpe of hartye prayer for successe to the delight and encouragement of Christian Magistrates and Superiours But further also if in thus proceeding all thinges euery way answer not the godly mindes and expectation of the faythfull to the full We haue first to lay the fault and hinderance where it is charging generally our selues and our owne 〈◊〉 therewith as the proper cause of all and farther euery one of vs particularly examining our selues haue to ioyne our seuer all sinnes with the sinnes of our peo ple and hartely as in publike so a parte to lament and be waile the matter in humble and plaine confession to God and in testifiyng to men as occasion is offered or dislike with that is amisse earnestly purposing and endeuouring to redresse that is amisse in our selues and to help the same in other as we maye keeping in all things the boundes and compasse of our calling Nexte beeing thus in all godlinesse and modestie affected haue wee to consider there whilest according to our bounden dutie wherein and howe farre wee maye and oughte to ioyne our selues in communion and fellowshippe with the Christian and holye Churche or Congregation wherein we liue in all Christian humilitie patience meekenesse bearing and forbearing without breaking the vnitie thereof so farre as is possible Christian and holy I call this Church in respect of that honour that God hath called it vnto and the good benefite of his holy worde Sacraments c. Wherewith hee hath vouchsafed to blesse the same not doubting in the meane while of good successe increase and dayly edification from God by these meanes so farre as he seeth expedient according to his promise though in the meane while there may be founde among vs but too many defects not in life and conuersation onely but in church policie and orders likewise which defectes like spots blemishes and staynes of the face we may behold not nowe adayes first but in these and some greater matters also euen in the Apostles times and afterwards in the olde and former Churches by themselues planted though in this behalf they be to be accounted sicke and imperfect which retaine yet still in Scripture the title and honour of Churches and of the church of God As for example The churches of the countrie of Asia in the Reuelation of Saint Iohn the churches of the Countrie of Galatia and of the Citie of Corinth and such like I speake not as though Churches shoulde or might please themselues in their follies or to flatter any I haue saide my minde thereof I tell here only what Christians particular dutie is for bearing in this behalfe where thinges be not too too intollerable especially this haue we well to consider of when we be not required by the Church authoritie to approue or imbrace in God his matters and religion any thing but that which is warranted by God his holy worde and we commended thereby in framing our consciences and liues according to that rule in all dutifulnesse towards God our Prince and other our neighbours And the Church they of authoritie likewise be content to heare and to be admonished of such defects and faultes wherein they may bee thought not to haue rightly applied nor iustly followed the rule of all reformation the worde of God so the same be Christianly doone and modestly as I haue said and we stil liue in good hope of redresse of that is a misse as the same may once be founde out perceiued and knowne by those to whome publike reformation thereof doth orderly appertaine which be the very same whom God hath placed in publike authoritie and calling Hereby is it not hard to be seene that I shut out of this account that Apostaticall vnholy Synagogue of Rome by the titles before mentioned as wherewith wee cannot ioyne our selues without renounsing the vnitie we haue with Christe and his holy vniuersall churche And againe we must thinke that they that excommunicate shut out and cut of from all Spirituall communion and societie with them outward and inwarde leauing them without all hope of reconciliation either in this worlde or in the worlde to come suche I say as are of one religion of one and the same profession with them that as they haue doone and doe so will no easiliar handle vs hence foorth seeke we peace as muche as we will and in vs lyeth The summe therefore of that we haue to rest vpon is that walking in God his feare in obedience and charitie towardes all men which is the effect of a Christian life we so edifie our selues and other with whom we liue in all godlinesse and honestie that in Godly zeale 〈◊〉 with wisedome and humblenesse of minde we take heed there whilest least declining or turning to much on one hande without neede we seperate our selues from the societie of them that approue and shewe them selues to be God his people vpon a dislike of some thinges amisse that lie not in our power or hands to redresse that bee priuate men if the same bee not intollerable to be borne with As they be when they plucke vp the very foundations of doctrine and the rootes of Christian Religion which doyng may be imputed to too much curiositie selfe loue and wilfulnesse c. Wee haue to take heede on the other hande for all this least by ioyning our selues vnto thē we receiue approue or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 things confusedly euē abuses y t do or may creep in hand ouer head as they say w tout any distinction or differēce w t may argue wāt of knowledge zeale true godlines When I would expresse full my meaning herein I can vtter it in no better or fitter wordes then
the holy Ghost his set vs downe by that chosen vessell the blessed Apostle who prayeth Christians to walke worthy their calling whereunto they are called with all humblenes of minde meeknes with long suffering supporting one another in loue endeuouring to keepe the vnitie of the Spirite in the bonde of peace There is one bodie and one spirit c. looke the place To discerne and distinguishe therefore thinges aright here needeth the Spirite of the Lorde the spirite of wisedome vnderstanding the spirite of counsaile and strength the spirite of knowledge and of the feare of the Lorde that may make vs prudent in the feare of the Lord c. whereof the Prophet sayth It shoulde rest vpon Christ who receyued the fame for the behoofe of his Churche and vs to be guided by Wee haue receiued sayth Saint Paule not the spirite of the worlde but the spirite which is of God that we may know the things which are giuē vs of God And the Anoynting which yee receiued of him dwelleth in you saith Saint Iohn and Yee neede not that any man teach you but as the same anoynting teacheth you of all things it is true and is not lying and as it taught you yee shall abide in him Agayne our Sauiour Christ It is written in the Prophetes And they shal be all taught of God A good and sure Schoolemaister is this Spirit of truth to lead vs into all trueth to bring into our remembrance whatsoeuer Christ hath tolde vs and to redresse and direct our wayes according to God his holy woorde which is the truth God only vouchsafe to 〈◊〉 our eares and to touche our heartes continually to heare beleeue and obey this truth Thus much in respect of some certaine for their better satisfiyng if it may be This matter beside the scriptures which may and ought to suffise hath 〈◊〉 and is diducted at large by some writers both olde and new as they are called where the same for them that list may be seen namely Augustine in his writings aforetime against the Donatists and such like wadeth herein very godly and wisely in my opinion and such godly men in our time also as write against Anabaptistes and y e like that are infected herein that I neede not to adde there vnto And besides I doe but here touch the same by the way as a caueat to preuent or cut of cauill and quarrelling if it may be hauing rather to occupie meselfe in answering the 〈◊〉 sarie at this time as one that what reason or answere soeuer other may be thought to haue and to make he surely his fellow Romanists haue very litle or none as who may be thought to haue beene in the orders of this Churche sufficiently if not too muche respected and borne with nowe aboue these twentie yeeres whiche may serue with all the worlde to our 〈◊〉 and the States 〈◊〉 here towardes these men And that a through and full reformation of the Church need not be forborne in respect of them I woulde this great and necessarie matter might as easily be obtayned which our sinnes onely let as it is not harde to answere what euer those fellowes can nowe alleadge for them selues Unto the examination therefore of this mans particular Reasons for refusall of comming to Church I nowe turne my selfe THE first Reason why I being a Catholike in minde may not goe to the Churches or seruice of the contrary Religion is because I perswading my selfe their doctrine to be false doctrine and consequently venemous vnto the hearer I may not venture my soule to bee infected with the same So that the firste proposition or grounde of this first reason to make it in forme of argument is this No man that perswadeth himselfe the doctrine nowe professed and taught in the Church of Englande is false and venemous to the hearer may venture his soule to be infected therewith But euery Romane Catholike is a man that perswadeth him selfe the doctrine nowe professed and taught in the Church of England is false doctrine and venemous to the hearer Therefore no Romane Catholike may venture his soule to be infected therewith First Sir such Catholikes as are of contrary opinion vnto you herein for whose sake you wrote this discourse must you suppose will denie one of your two propositions finde shifts to auoyde all your proofes which will not bee harde to bee done for those of your religion But let them shift with you as they and you can agree I am no patrone of theirs I will speake and answere to the matter Therefore to this first Argument or Reason I answere that it is vayne and naught because it is grounded vpon opinion fancie and ones perswading of him selfe and doing after his perswasion and not vpon the matter and truth Nowe these two matters be diuers and doe differ much I perswade my selfe that such a thing is thus or so And such a thing in deed is thus or so The reason why because one may be and to often is deceiued in perswading himself of things otherwise then they be But the truth is alwaies one and 〈◊〉 not according to our perswasion neither 〈◊〉 thereon What if one perswade himselfe y t he is a Prince or haue a bag of money is he so or hath he it euer the more or euer the sooner for that neuer a whit sure Or if one perswade himself there is a snake in his bed shall he not sleepe neere it or if your fellow perswade himself you go about to deceiue him shall hee not trust you Surely our doing or not doing of thinges euen appertayning to this lyfe to haue the same well done must not depende vpon our own perswasion which is very changeable and vncertayne but our perswasion to doe any thing must depende rather vpon the trueth and goodnesse of the matter that wee minde to doe Otherwise one perswading him selfe that euery man hee shall meete will kil him may not venture to goe abroad about his 〈◊〉 nor come in the companie of any man perswading himselfe that what euer hee eate or drinke poysoneth him hee may not venture to eate nor drinke for being 〈◊〉 And so within a while die like a foole and be guiltie of his owne death because hee will not lay away his owne 〈◊〉 perswasion In religion and matters of 〈◊〉 is this argument much more 〈◊〉 vaine as y t which hath 〈◊〉 and doeth from Gods truth and is the mother and nurse of all superstition and 〈◊〉 So as if this disputer or reasoner will needes grounde this argument or reason vpon his perswasion yet must he giue seaue to 〈◊〉 the grounde of his perswasion whether it bee good or bad true or false And not say as he doth elsewhére that he will not dispute thereof but howe euer that bee the perswasion may not be done against be it true be it false First rather let him prooue the goodnes truth therof
reasoning in proouing matters wee had rather heare of good strong and sounde proofes by Syllogismes than by weake 〈◊〉 but let that also passe Let vs take such 〈◊〉 all argumentes as are offered vs. Prooue your similitude what it wil and as well as it can it prooueth not that you bring it in for Note your similitude your selfe and make the conclusion and you shall fee you prooue not that you propounded but reason from one thing to another or propound one thing and conclude another It is an vnlikely likelihood for the matter it is to be applied vnto if you would haue made it like to that it shoulde prooue or whiche you bring it for Thus seemeth me should you haue made it As a man perswading himselfe bodily foode to bee infectious to his bodie or dangerous may not vse the same So in doctrine perswading himselfe that it is heresie or false he may not heare and receiue the same or some such way And then haue I shewed the weakenes and folly of the argument before and giuen example thereof that I neede not repeate the 〈◊〉 I say good meate shall be wholesome for the bodie and necessary too perswade men themselues therein as they will And the sounde doctrine of the Gospell heere professed and preached shall be much more wholesome and necessarie for the soule to keep to your kinde of comparing persuade you your selues therin as you list The testimonies of scripture c. that ye alleadge make nothing to the contrary hereof 〈◊〉 fully against you and the venime and danger of Poperie and Popish doctrine and heresie The very 〈◊〉 of the text with a religious minde will 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 testimonie of your abusing the same and your 〈◊〉 and your followers heerein I maruaile not a little 〈◊〉 you grounding this your first reason vpon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the same againe ouerthrowe perswasion For after you haue cited in one text by and by as it were by way of obiecting and answering without farther proceeding ye reason against perswasion If your men at least per swade themselues in that they thinke you will obtrude to your fellow and to vs too your perswasiō vnder the title of conscience not to be done against though it bee erroneous yee will not let other no not your fellowe rest in his persuasion Bide the law you make to other This is a very good touch to trie perswasiō and mens doings by the scriptures I would you would euer keepe that ground and trial in al y t matters in controuersie betweene you and vs That that which is done without warrant of scripture or is against scripture should be condemned reiected With this ouerthrowe we your perswasion here pretended with this ouerthrow we al your Reasons your whole religion and kingdōe of poperie mightily Popery y t is not grounded on holy scriptures nor followeth gods booke filleth mēs minds ful of vaine perswasions and their heades ful of ydle fancies which they that stay them selues vpon Gods holy word are free from their consciences clered As for example papists promise them selues many good thinges whereof they are in the end disapointed and so confounded for that they haue no warrant from God nor assurance of his worde Other limiting their hope keeping the same within the compasse of Gods worde and promise are not confounded but enioye the same and are blessed Blessed are they that put their trust in him Hope maketh not ashamed because it hath Gods promise going before Againe papistes and the vngod ly are afrayd where no feare is haue a faintnes and cowardlines in their heartes the sound of a leafe shaken chaseth them in 〈◊〉 they entangle and snare their constiences without neede whereas they that obserue 〈◊〉 and counsell that is heare Gods word stay vpon it and followe the 〈◊〉 as a light to guide them by c. are 〈◊〉 from such feare and liue in great and godly securitie Poperie it is alone and not Gods word that telleth them there is danger of infection in haunting our Church assemblies For your allegations and proofes out of the bookes that are Apocrypha which with you are as good and substantiall as Canonicall scriptures No distinction is to bee kept All is one with you I will not now charge you because the doctrine is true and agreeing to the Canonicall Scriptures and to be applied of our men to you and your religion as the rest yee heape together And yet yee must remember what Hierome in his prologues set before your owne translation of the Byble sayth of that booke of Iesus the sonne of Syrach and the like It were no hard matter to take the staffe here out of your handes and to beate your selfe withal As the diligent reader euen in this first reason may easilye perceiue So fitly doe these testimonies heere alleadged serue vs against you and can by no means bee forced against 〈◊〉 profession you may carry a persuasion to ground your reason vpon we shal haue y e truth y e matter to ground ours vpon Let me in passing take an example from you in answere for our dread Soueraigne and the States dealing here with you You tell vs of seucre lawes in the primitiue Churche made for prohibiting of corrupt and naughtie seruice sermons and reading of like bookes yee referre vs for proofe to the Emperours Martian and Iustinian and to the noble and zelous first Christian Emperour Constantine What doth her Maiestie other then followe those and like examples in forbidding your popish masse Your seditious bookes ful of poyson c. You say Constantine made it death for any man to read Arrius bookes and reason say you Are you angred that her maiestie dealeth not so with you and your bookes which are like If that bee the faulte it may be mended soone enough to your cost your Pope and Popishe heresie is no lesse dandgerous and hurtfull at this day then Arrius was then If you put her Maiestie in minde and call vpon such lawes to be made heere nowe 〈◊〉 like cause you maye quickely make a rodde for your selues the matter will hardely possible afterwarde bee 〈◊〉 with wordes or taken vp at your pleasures againe If you can do no more I counsel you yet to hold your peaces sit stil and be quiet For the rest where ye thunder out against 〈◊〉 Luther and iumble vp together the Professors of the Gospell in odious tearmes with other heretikes and sectaries of your broode as which your M. Howlet in the beginning of his Epistle Dedicatory to her Maiestie hath before confessed that yee neede not father the same heere on Lut her you doe but vtter your stomacke against Gods seruant in whom there were rare and excellent giftes of God and with whom and by whom his spirit mightily wrought for the aduancement of the Gospel in these later dayes shaking the very foundations of your Antichristiā kingdome It were not harde to shew here your errour
oftē I wil leaue these three reasons of Schisme Participation with heresie and 〈◊〉 after I haue noted a worde or two there of more till these men can alleadge some sounde proofe that wee are that which they bee that is Schismatikes and Heretikes For Dissimulation as we loue plaine dealing and Christs Religion and the truth is ioyned with a godly simplicitie so hope we well that thase that come to Church aslemblies here doe the same with a single and vpright heart wee sitte not in their heartes and consciences we knowe not what is in them Which thing if they doe not they haue learned their dissimulation in Poperie and not in Christes schoole nor of y e profession of his Gospel Though I send not them quicke to hell with this discourser as I haue said yet surely are they to be reputed very bad folke so as hardly can there bee worse commonly among men especially in cases of religion let them examine themselues by the holy scriptures learne their duetie thence and repent in time else will they bee founde neyther true seruantes of God nor duetifull subiectes to her Maiestie in the ende nor yet good common wealth men God giue grace to consider hereof to shame the diuell wee eyther iudge them not or iudge the best and charitably of them I maruell not a litle at these words of yours in the latter ende of your Reason of Dissimulation many a thousand now in England being as throughly perswaded in heart of the trueth of the Catholike religion as the Apostles and other Christians at that time that is in the time of the Apostles were of theirs are cōtent not withstanding to heare digest admit and execute all or most parte of these thinges recited contrary to the sayde religion Here yee liken together the Apostles and olde Christians and many of your Catholikes nowe in Englande the Apostles and Christians religion then and your catholike religion nowe and you shewe these mens vsage to be vnlikely and diuerse in sticking to these two religions By the way heere I note that your Catholike religion and the Apostles and christians then bee two religions and diuerse else yee speake verye 〈◊〉 But let that goe howe can you or any in englande be as throughly perswaded in heart of your Catholike religion nowe which is false and not only net grounded on Gods worde but contrary thervnto as the Apostles and Christians in the primitiue Churche were of theirs which had God and the Scriptures for their grounde and warraunt Though a house buylded on the sande may haue a faire shewe yet in strength for want of a good foundation it can neuer be so strong as that which is buylt on a Rocke He that heareth Christes woordes and doeth the same is like a wise builder on a Rocke I wis he that heareth your Masse Mattens c. is farre off from that 〈◊〉 in blindenesse may be easily gathered thereby and a senselessenes whereof commeth no good but muche hurt As the contrary commeth by hearing Sermons and preaching of the Gospell Constancie and a good conscience is rather lost then retayned much lesse gayned or encreased by your blynd and superstitious religion You run to your olde starting hole of perswading your selues bee it ryght bee it wrong But to haue a true a sounde and a good setled perswasion for religion and matters of conscience it must be stayed in heauen it must be warranted by Gods holie worde and Scriptures whiche you for your religion are distitute of els can it not be I will 〈◊〉 say so thorough as the Apostles c. But in truth not good nor to bee trusted vnto Your seuenth reason is that our Gods seruice is naught and dishonorable to God and therefore must be abstained from Surely you say somewhat nowe if you coulde prooue that yee say this is the first the last and all the reasons that are worth the examining the foundation and grounde of all the rest Let vs see therefore how you goe about to prooue this point forsooth at the first entrie ye leaue of your proofe and fall a confuting of our reason before you prooue the matter One may perceiue it is easier with you in wordes to finde fault then in deede to mende it or iustly to shewe where and wherein the fault lyeth that other might mende the same The Scriptures lye in your way like a shrewd blocke yee thinke good therefore first to assay to remooue that and then to proceede in your purpose after Handeled Dratour like with your figure accordingly but florished at in deede rather then any thing els doone That wee haue the Bible and the Scriptures so familiar and so strong on our side that offendeth you that angreth you that hindreth your purpose greatly But we thanke God therfore highly Burne the Bibles and burne them againe fume and fret rage and doe what you can yet bidding battaile to God he will be founde stronger then you and yee shall not pruaile Alas poore scripture is that it so offendeth you it is the swoorde of the spirite It bringeth vs many yea infinite other necessary and vnspeakeable commodities we cannot forgoe it sir wee are vtterly vndoone if it be takē away from vs. I pray you giue vs leaue to haue it and to vse it Can you not prooue our church assemblies naught but you must impugne and disgrace the scriptures Must you needes beginn and make entrance there Happy for vs vnhappie for you A happie turne for vs that wee and our cause nor our God his seruice cannot be foiled but with the scriptures an vnhappie matche for you but euen to mislike with Gods booke What woulde you haue vs to commend our God his seruice with better then the Scriptures Wee that are Christians like that better then traditions and inuentions of men which you here talke of very cunningly quoting vs Augustine in the Margin as though hee in those places condemned Scriptures to contmende traditions which is neither so nor so as wee shall see after by examination thereof Take you therefore these traditions and leaue vs the scriptures so we may feede 〈◊〉 pure fine wheate eate your Cods huskes chaffe and what you will Ye are nowe in the matter in controuersie betwene vs we confesse It hath been the question betwene Papists and Protestants that is betweene you and vs full these threescore yeeres now together who shalbe y t iudge to decide y e matters in cōtrouersie betweene vs we say the holy Scriptures and woorde of God wee appeale to that you say no not the Scriptures by any meanes It is the Heretikes booke let the writinges on both partes be perused for proofe and try all heereof but let vs goe forwarde w t this reasoner If our seruice being full of scripture as yee say it bee no good argument that the same is therefore infallible good I pray you let vs know the good argumēt y e wil proue your
popish Latine seruice infallible good It is cōtrary to ours ours to y t an argumēt taken of the contrary will serue it seemeth your turne that is your seruice is therefore infallible good because it hath no Scriptures or is contrary to the scriptures as it is in deed shewed plainely and plainly if not to you yet to all those that haue any eyes to see eares to heare or heartes to consider thereof The whole Scripture sir is giuen by inspiration of God and is profitable to teache to improoue to correct and to instruct in righteousnesse that the man of God may bee absolute and made perfect to all good workes Good is the Scripture nothing but good euery way and most perfectly good As bad as your seruice is yet for shame coulde your men not call it God his or diuine seruice without taking some patches of the Scriptures to commend the same withall If ours haue more scripture and in better order as in deede not dalying therewith at least let it not be blamed therefore finde some other faulte in it Let not the Scripture make our seruice like to wicked seruice for that respect and vs in it to be like Iewes Heretikes and the Diuell and his talke with Christ so ye speake vnlesse yee can make it for some like respect and in such sense as Christes comming to iudgement is to a theeues soden comming and at vnawares And then shall it not be preiudiciall to vs nor to our god his seruice nor auaile or help your cause But I am not carefull to expound your meaning that meane as seemeth very vnhappily I pray you set vs not to make Apologies or prayses of the Scriptures nowe You cite Augustine that it was alwayes the fashion of heretikes to haue scripture in their mouth and to cleaue only to scriptures and to refuse traditions as inuentions of men though we bee not bounde to Augustine yet wee aske you where Augustine hath it Yee say against Maximinus wee tell you as wee are inforced still to do that you say vntruly Augustine findeth no fault with y e Arrian Heretike there for citing or vsing y e testimonies of the scriptures but for abusing the same For hee himselfe entreth that combate with the Arrian Bishop and by scriptures confuteth Arrianisme Augustine graunteth that the Arrian Bishop vseth the true testimonies of God his Scripture which is more then we can graunt you Papistes now adayes which for your sluttish handeling false allegation of Scriptures shewe your selues worse then y e old Heretike who corrupted not nor peruerted the holy Scriptures but the faulte that Augustine chargeth him with is that he woulde prooue thereby saith he their false doctrine of Arrius concerning Christe his diuinitie which is not possible to doe God his true scriptures can not prooue any false doctrine The Art of Logicke woulde teache you so much as I tolde you before This is the abuse then that Augustine reprooueth and wee with him yea with God Christe and all the Godly that where Arrius doctrine was directly contrary to the scripture with sophistrie glosing and other shiftes hee woulde goe about to maintaine the same and hale in the scriptures by the haire as they say to seeme to prooue that which they condemne whome and his wrangling Augustine by scripture and by no other meanes confuteth Wee are no Arrians we are not nor will not bee Heretikes shewe that wee doe abuse the scriptures as to ouerthrowe Christs diuinitie thereby or to establishe diuelish doctrines deuised by our selues or taken from other men as you doe or els forbeare to liken vs and our God his seruice to wicked Iewes heretikes and Diuels What you are and your behauiour let your doinges tell whereof as occasion serueth euer and 〈◊〉 I giue the Reader a taste here in this reason is among the rest some sparkes of your modestie commended by your fellowe M. Howlet to the s kie in his Preface to her maiestie to discerne a Sectarie by his spirite and proceeding Because you cite Augustine heere against Maximinus an arrian Bishop and heretike and the first booke I wish y e learned Reader to looke on y e place to see your cunning or sleight rather Augustine pressing the heretike to declare his faith of the father the sonne and the holy ghost the Heretike ranne as to a starting hole to a councell of many Bishops saying hee beleeued as they beleeued this is your maner aright you knowe your diuinitie tale I am sure of the Collier and the great Clarke his scholler commended and set vs downe by your side as some heauenly Oracle Howe beleeuest thou Answere as the Church beleeueth and howe beleeueth the Church answere as I beleeue further woulde hee not goe but still repeate that and this was no table for that great doctour and Clarke to marke and carry away for his vse and to teache other But Austen heere checketh the heretike for that answere and biddeth him expresse his owne faith Howe hee beleeueth and not runne to the councell of Ariminum and name that The words are these Augustine saith to the heretike Tell me thy fayth of the father and the sonne and the holy Ghost Maximin the heretike answereth If you aske my fayth I holde that faith which at Arminium was not onely expounded but also by subscriptiō confirmed of three hundred thirtie Byshops Here was a counsel of a great many moe byshops then were at your Trent meeting Augustine sayth I sayd euen nowe and I repeate the same because thou wouldest not answere me Tell me thy fayth of the father and of the sonne and of the holy Ghost c. And by and by after therfore I sayde thou wouldest not answer because whilest I required that thou shouldest tell me thy fayth of the father and the sonne and the holy Ghost which I yet now aske thou hast not tolde me thy fayth but hast named the Councell of Ariminum I would know thy fayth what thou beleeuest what thou thinkest of the father the sonne and the holy Ghost If thou wilt vouchsafe let me heare it of thine owne mouth Sende me not to those writings which eyther are not nowe heere present and ready or I am not bounde to their authoritie c. No Augustine what not to a Councell and that of so many Byshops No in deede neither to Councell nor multitude but to the scriptures onely And therefore against the same Maximin he sayth afterwardes neither ought I preiudicially to bring forth now the Councell of Nice whiche made for Augustine and was the first most famous generall Councell after the Apostles time Neyther oughtest thou to bring foorth the Councell of Ariminum whiche wee hearde euen now the heretike alleadged for him I am 〈◊〉 bounde to this councels authoritie sayth Austen nor thou to the authoritie of that Nicene Councell No Augustine Againe I say not bound to the Nicene
c. For Idols Idolaters you haue this word in y e very last booke and last chapter of the new Testament ver 15. Reuelatiō 2. Idols twise verse 14. 20. Let this serue to note your vntrue slander To woorship or religiously serue besides God we make the same an Idoll The outwarde representation also thereof or Image is in scriptures called an Idol Hee nameth an expresse place here where we shall find Images for Idols in the very last wordes of the fifth chapter of Saint Iohn his fyrst Epistle First that is but one place and one example which is a very bad proofe to shewe that wee translate Images for Idols throughout the scripture next thus it is read in our Church assemblies at this present what euer this lying quareller dreame euen in the Byble translated vnder her maiesties gouernement and printed with priuilege by her highnes Printer Richarde Iugge 1568. and. 1572. and set into Churches and there dayly read and expounded Babes keepe your selues from Idols Then are you not 〈◊〉 onely but a shamelesse lyer and a slanderer and abuser of the people So is it likewise translated in the english Bible printed at Geneua 1560. in the beginning of her maiesties happy raigne and dedicated vnto her highnes So is it translated in that worthie Theodore Beza his newe Testament dedicated also to our Soueraigne c. But how is it translated in your authenticall translation I pray you that must alone bee approoued and receiued without checke and all other in comparison therof reiected There is that faulte ye charge vs with if that be a faulte as in 〈◊〉 I iudge it to be none or not so greate Idole beeing the Greeke and Image the Latin and English word Then if any English Bybles haue left the word Idols and vsed the word Images in this place of S. Iohn yet is no more done thē you permit your selues and therfore yee need not call it manifest and wilfull corruption c. Except it be to discredite that you account your owne translation If that bee your griefe to see or heare the word Images in I. Iohn the. 5. 21. forbidden though it be not greatly materiall the circumstance considered yet to satisfie and please you if that will serue that word Image is remooued and the Greeke worde Idole kept in diuers of our english translations why mend you not your own common latin translation not here onely wherewith we charge you not but in infinite other places wherein the same is verye corrupt Where you would cleere your church of Idols and Idolatrie by his childish distinction betweene Idols and Images It is so wel answered as I neede adde nothing to that the Godly learned haue here of sayd Ye know it is Hierome his manner on the Prophets to applie to the times and persons vnder Christ that which is spoken of Idols and Idolatrie vnder the Prophets to shewe their are among Christians Idols Idolatours that wee neede not cast the same from vs to the Heathen as though Christendome were free frō Idols and Idolatours Which I would it were if it pleased God but wil neuer be so long as you maintain Images in churches the worship therof which is cleere plaine Idolatry In yours all other religions mans vaine fancie braine idle head is the source fountaine and first-shop to conceiue and 〈◊〉 Idols and Idolatry in afterward the hand is made an instrumēt to fashiō frame an outward forme or picture of that Lye which is there first conceiued c. Call the same a God an Idole an Image a Picture or what you will In grossenes in cunning there may be some diuersitie in effect al is flat Idolatry whatsoeuer we choose Let al y t world iudge who be shamlesse corruptors and wylfull to drawe yea to peruert the scripture to their owne purpose in this point that I talke of to goe 〈◊〉 further now They that heere translate Images as your vulgare translation 〈◊〉 and some other doe But not as I haue shewed the english Byble printed in her maiesties raigne and read at this day in our Churches as yee vniustly slander Or you Papists that for the retaining and maintaining of your Idolatry or Images and Image worship among the people haue quite rased out the second commandement of the ten agaynst Images and Idolatry or if you will haue it gentlier spoken haue left it out of those latin and english primers and bookes wherein the ten commandementes were expressed to be learned of the common people here in times past I know your shift for such forgerie but 〈◊〉 me thinketh haue let the wordes stand and follow in order as God pronounced and propounded the same to his people in the scriptures ten wordes are not many you might haue kept your shift for a better purpose if it so had pleased you For the matter as the scripture telleth vs that such stuffe teacheth lyes is contrary to the doctrine of the same scripture So Lactantius sayth vndoubtedly there is no religion where an Image is Images are voyde of religion c. And the Heathen and heretike charged the Christians in the primitiue Church with this that they had no Images as though Christians had beene too blame for being without Images who if they had had Images coulde not haue beene so charged or might haue answered at the least otherwise than they doe And as one of your owne men writeth out of Hierom almost all the ancient fathers condemned the woorshipping of Images for feare of Idolatry than the which no wickednes can be greater c. Famous is the story of Epiphanius translated into Latin by Hierom who cut in peeces the paynted vaile wherein the image of Christ or some saint was hanging at the dore of the Temple for that it was against the authoritie of the scriptures that a mans image should hang in the Church and against our religion sayth hee And more famous yet is the publike edict of sundry the olde christian Emperours in forbidding Images and the worship thereof not thinking it to pertaine to religion that the Image of any should be worshipped no not of Christ whose Image by name they forbad as in their decree is to be seene c. You see the hanging of Christes Image in the Church or any Saintes the worshipping also of such Images is condēned and forbidden Now would I know of you in what commandement the same is forbidden vnlesse it be in that which forbiddeth Idolatry Idols Plead against those of your side against these anciēt fathers y e emperours c. If ye needs wil Say what ye wil ye shal neuer be able to cleere your Images set vp in Temples from being Idols nor your woorshipping thereof from idolatry which you must doe better than hitherto before you can make vs beleeue the contrary or otherwise of them then the scriptures and antiquitie teach and report
of Images Blame them not and say they should haue sayde of Idols What though the Image of God according whereunto man was made be not nor be translated by vs nor called an Idol As we vse the word at this day What though to goe furder her maiesties image in her coine or otherwise be free from that grosse terme c. what maketh all this for excusing and cleering your religious Images that I maye so speak or those that are made for religion from being Idols which are painted carued grauen set vp in churches decked senced clothed crouched vnto kissed offred vnto praiers made before them and lightes set vp with such other superstitions Is the one case and the other like Doe you finde your Bybles faultie in this point Or can you reprooue our speech and talke You roue at your owne pleasure and at randon to maintaine your fooles bable howe will you maintaine your Paraphrasis or farre fetcht Periphrasis and Circumlocution vpon the fifth to the Ephesians to be a better and more faythfull translation than our english Bybles set vs downe you shall neuer finde I trow the wordes yee heere set vs downe in the fyfth to the Ephesians in any Byble Latine or English Greeke or other You are the first peruerter and falsifier of the Greeke Latin and English translation in that place that I know Thus saye you S. Paule satth that a couetous man maketh his money his Idole Thus say some of our English translations A couetous persō which is an Idolator Thus other which in sense is all one A couetous person which is a worshipper of Images The former translation of the two keepeth the Greeke worde vsed now in english the other rendreth the same in meere english termes and both well You neither keepe the Greeke nor render vs the same in english faythfully but tell vs your owne meaning For the matter you vtter your owne great folly in so foolishly dallying with the scriptures If your common translation maye render vs these wordes Idolatry and Idolatours sometime seruice of Idols as here sometime seruice of Images as Coloss. 3. 5. c Why may not our english translatiō likewise render the same sometime Idolatry and Idolators sometime woorshipping of Idols as Coloss. 3. 5. and worshippers of Images as heere c. Checking our translation you checke by more right your owne But I maruaile howe you that looke so narrowly into our translations passe so great fault here in your common translation as you construe the matter To excuse your Idolatry withall you make a curious distinction betweene 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is worship seruice And here your own translation rendreth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seruice so confounding both wordes howe agreeth this with your subtile distinction Let the reader now hardlye iudge of the whole betweene vs and in conscience tell who 〈◊〉 more sinceritie and more fidelitie in translating and handling the scriptures you or wee Thus much concerning the first fault you vniustly finde with our english translation of the Byble taken out of 1. Iohn 5. 21. and of Images Idols and Idolatry and your subtile distinctions betweene images and idols Latria and Dulia and your vame excuse of your Popish idolatrie c. Yee cannot stande yee say to rehearse our like absurd translations in infinite other thinges No maruell if yee bring the like to this out of Saint Iohn that is false slanders though yee cannot stande to rehearse the same For it is no honestie neither needeth it and you may bee ashamed thereof if yee can blushe wee can make you no answere to that which you note not nor set vs downe But this I say hee that shoulde enter your common translation the Bible in Latine so aduaunced approued of your side y t none may cōpare w t it but it must stand alone without checke and controulement c. As your Pope with his Popish Trent Councell hath resolued shoulde easilier find a way in then well get out againe so corrupt and wilfully and shamelesly corrupted is it In the place of 1. Iohn 5. 21. and diuers other like will you for all the fault you finde correct your owne vulgare translation or abide by it to the popes face that it is not scripture except it be thus from Idols but manifest and wilfull corruption I weene ye will not you know the perill of it too well But let vs leaue y t. Byde any thing in your selues byde nothing in vs This is your equall rule I pray you Syr what made you euen in the beginning of Genesis in that notable and comfortable promise of mans restoring after his fall by the seede of the woman Iesus Christe to turne that was spokē of Christ ouer to the Virgin Marie to change the gēder and in steede of He or It that is Christ or the seede to say in your vulgare or common translation shee that is the Virgin Marie and so to peruert not onely the wordes but the meaning of the holy Ghoste Let Lyra and other Commentaries thereupon bee seene Surely I thinke the Diuell himselfe was the Authour and father thereof as hee was of the Ladies Psalter and such other impieties Let your Hyperdulia helpe this treacherie you were best deuise defused tearmes to helpe defused and naughtie matters If Christ be our Lord you will needes haue the Virgin Mary our Ladie I fhee bee king of heauen Shee must be Queene If hee bee ascended wee must thinke She was assumpted c. I will not heere followe your abhominable superstitions and Idolatries What mooued you in the newe Testament in steede of sweeping the house to translate it in your vulgar translatiō ouerthrowing the house Insomuch as your Expositours making Comment thereof shewe howe the woman ouerthrewe the house some taking it spoken by a figure some simplie in deed and plainly as the wordes lye If it were a fault in the Printer why caused it you not to bee amended when yee were admonished and founde it out especially seeing it deceiued your learned writers to make vs false Commentaries thereon Why retaine you that corruption still in the Text in both places and set down the true reading aloofe in the margin in sundrie Bibles of diuers Printes Why in that notable opposition betweene grace and workes haue you left out in the Romans 11.6 these words in your translation But if it bee of workes it is no more grace or els were work no more work The reason may easily bee spyed because you will bee thought to bee great friendes to workes ye are content to become enimies to grace Why are not these faultes with other being so notorious so often tolde and cryed out against amended in your corrupt translation I think the religion you beare to your Pope and to the translation by him authorised stayeth you els for shame you woulde haue mended so grosse
goeth about to reckon your Popes decretall epistles in the number of Canonicall scriptures and to racke in Augustines authoritie to prooue that matter I thinke this geare and the like maye better and more iustly be accoūted of vs blasphemie against god thē our praiers to be kept frō the Pope and his infection of papistry But to conclude this point there is you say falshoode and blasphemie in our seruice and we sing and cause to be sung as though it were scripture and one of Dauids Psalmes a prayer made by man wherein wee haue seene howe you fayle and faulte greatly and yet can finde no vngodlinesse much lesse blasphemie in that prayer But were it sung as yee say what I pray you that are so precise and hard with vs were there therein done more than in your Popishe mattens How is your Te Deum made by man no scripture distinguished from Benedictus that is the holy Ghostes hymne and scripture You had neede then mend your owne seruice before you finde such fault with other Agayne whither will you leade and bring vs from this seruice that you seeme to finde fault with You had not neede bring vs to your Popish blasphemous seruice For then haue we made but an euill change You had neede to bring vs to a seruice voyde of all note of falshoode and blasphemy that charge ours so there with and are so squaymish and precise that you cannot abide our seruice It were too long vpon this occasion throughly to examine your Popish seruice yet let vs take a viewe in this matter that is in prayer and singing of Psalines and giue you for one example two Thomas Becket a naughtie proude Prelate is made a Saint and a Martyr by you hath his holy day and seruice Is not this among the rest a blasphemous praier with you By the bloode of Thomas which for thee he did spend make vs Christ to climbe whither Thomas did ascend If this geare be not blasphemous I knowe not what is For to leaue the making of a proude trayterous Prelate to his king a Saint to ordayne seruice c to Creatures in steede of the Creator To talke also of Thomas ascending to heauen what is it to desire Christ to bring vs to heauen by the blood of Thomas but by Idolatrie and blasphemie to staine Gods glory and to iniurie Christes merits and withall to delude and abuse Gods people Is not moreouer this verse sung by you in your Temples continually as it were out of one of Dauids Psalmes Viduam eius benedicens benedicam c I set downe the Latin because you sing it in Latin crauing herein pardon of the Reader and yet take it as I finde it corruptly and yet woorse translated in your English Primer printed here in former Popish daies that yee had beene as good haue left the ignorant people the Latin Primer alone and Beades still as to haue abused them with so corrupt an English translation Thus hath it the popish english Primer that I saw at the writing hereof distinguishing full ylfauouredlye the verses and disioyning the wordes that are to be ioyned together For the more plainenes I will set downe two verses This is my resting place for euermore Heere shall I dwell for I haue chosen it with blessing The widowe of it I shall blyke the poore people of it I shall fullfyll with breade False translation false printing false singing false saying All false and nothing but false agree well enough together and with a false religion The best in the worlde and therfore belike being admonished and called vppon for amendment you let it stande still such is your reforming and amending of thinges deforming and making them euer woorse and woorse The next fault you charge our seruice with is the lack of necessary thinges which it should haue in it Yee take example of a mans reciting of the Creede or Articles of the Beliefe If you leaue out one article as in effecte the Protestants say you doe the Article of descention into Hell all the whole Creede were naught thereby I aske you first what if I adde an Article more as you Papists doe whē you aske men how they beleeue in the Sacrament of the Alter c. Is not that as great a fault Next for answeare I report me to all the world whether we in effect or otherwise leaue out that Article Descended into hell in the Creede or teaching the people to recite it We bid or wishe them to leaue y t article out The creed or articles of y e beliefe are daily twise a day publikely recited in the Congregation by the Minister and the people in the mother tongue At morning and euening prayer Is not this article of descending into hell at both times expressed Looke vpon the booke come to Church and heare Wherfore you are a very slanderer heere in as you are euer But sir is all the Creede naught if that article be left out or any other How say you then to the creed of that famous general councel of Nice which leaueth out the Article of descending into hell that I say nothing of other partes of the Creede How say you to the like Creed in the first Councell at Constantinople How to Athanasius Creede that leaueth out these wordes Crucifyed Deade Buried c I trowe you will not condemne these formes of the Creed or Beliefe to prooue your saying true It were better you and your saying too should bee found false and faulty as you be heerein thē accuse so godly ancient forms of Beleife but to come neerer to you What say you to your owne seruice and the chiefest part thereof in your estimation If this be a fault prooue y e whole naught Thē is your masse naught your masse creed euē for this respect for you cannot finde Descended into hell in your Masse Creed nor died neyther nor yet the communion of Saintes And yet for all this is it among the rest of the best that is in your Masse It would be too long particularly to examine your propiciatorie sacrifice of the Masse which is a newe crucifiyng of Christ agayne as much as in you lyeth of which argument I speake a little after where you repeate and mention your Masse sacrifice againe and extoll it to the skie it is your precious Iewell your popish priesthood and priests finagogues or tēples aultars priests apparel vestments Sen sors Franckinsens c. which you here reckon vp and wee you say lacke in deede we doe so And we thanke God therefore sauing that we haue those which you cal temples wherin we 〈◊〉 for the exercises of our religion which are therfore called Churches with vs because Gods church and peo ple meete there the rest you bring no scriptures for which in steede of all that ye alleage is the foundation of our christian religion so called of Christ. Priests ye say and all were 〈◊〉 for
before vs a light to our steps to direct vs in al our waies O that we could and wold wholy giue ouer our selues to god to be 〈◊〉 therby we shold neuer delite more in popery nor yet in our own fācies Christ you say saith that he wil not haue one iot of his law to be passed ouer vnkept whosoeuer shal break one of the least of his commandementes shall haue least pare in the kingdome of heauen The which words of Christ Saint Iames explicating sayeth hee that keepeth all the whole lawe and doth offend but in one thing onelie yet is he guiltie in all the rest And againe to be imperfect is contrarie to the will of Christ which would haue vs perfect For Christes wordes you quote Matthewe 5. for the other Iames. 2. Now let me be bold to stay here a little and common and talke with you Is it not God his Law I pray you Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen Image nor the likenes of any thing that is in heauē aboue c. Who breake the same and teach men so to doe Who strike it out of the number of the tenne commandemēts keepe it from the knowledge of the lay people Who but you papistes Is it not Christ his commandement in the Supper of the Lord Drinke you al of this Who breake and corrupt the same with false gloses But you Papistes Euen in this place of the. 5. of Mat. the. 6. 7. also Who but papistes make of Christ his precise commandementes counsels ouely so loosing or breaking rather the knot wherby God hath tyed men in dutie towardes him and all this to bring in workes of supererrogation merits the popish perfection of Fryers other their religious men c. things of their owne deuise Who at this day but Papists denyeth concupiscence or lust to be sinne which is forbidden in the tenth and last of God his commandements to the extolling of mans nature and derogating of Gods grace who to the like effect set our iustification by workes but they who is it I pray you tell me if you can that commeth to that perfection in life by workes that Christ here requireth who can say that he offendeth not in one thing which if he doe he is therby as you here tell vs out of S. Iames guiltie in all the rest There is no such man I trow That made the holy prophet say Enter not into iudgement with thy seruant for in thy sight shall none that liueth be iustifyed And againe If thou O Lord marke iniquities O Lord who shall stande But there is mercie with thee that thou maiest be feared c. Thus thinke we and thus had we rather speake then be deceiued with the papistes and vse their phrases Now then out of these places Thus doe I reason against mens being iustified by workes none that is guiltie in all Gods commandementes can alledge his workes for his iustice or can be iustified by workes but who euer offendeth but in one thing onely as I thinke you wil graunt euery man doeth is guiltie in all the rest as you alledge vs here out of S. Iames. Wherefore none that offendeth but in one thing onely or which is all one no mortall man can alleadge his workes for his iustice or can bee iustified by woorkes To bee iustified by woorkes and through workes to offende GOD and bee thereby guiltie and that in all his commandements be two contrary thinges and will euelly stand together which maketh vs I tell you to seeke out of our selues and to finde our righteousnes in Christ and to lay holde on him and it by fayth where alone it is truely and indeede to bee had And for our selues and our woorkes though receiued nowe to grace and iustified in Christ by faith We be continually and diligently occupied in godly good works cōmanded of God in his law acknowledging it to be our duetie so to doe as wherin true christianitie is liuely expressed and shewed foorth and doe likewise teach other the same and set them in that course Yet come we short euer of that Gods Law iustly'requireth therein at our hands we our selues would be glad to perfourme And therfore in the matter of our 〈◊〉 we renounce our owne righteousnes and cleaue onely to y t righteousnes of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ our Lord when we haue done all those things that are commanded vs yet say we as Christ our good maister teacheth vs. We are vnprofitable seruants we haue done that which was our duetie to doe c. Albeit then we distinguish ioyne neuertheles together iustifycation and sanctifycation faith and good workes as light heate in with the fire continuasly yet set we not vp workes of supererrogation to merit 〈◊〉 for our 〈◊〉 other or vainely vaunt of our meritorious deedes thinges deuised commonly by men and papists rather then proceeding from the spirit of God In summe papists extoll man and his nature diminishing thereby Gods glory and the riches of his grace we humble man and his nature we beate downe his pryde that looking on his foule feete hee maye haue no cause to bragge of his peacockes tayle that is by any meanes glory in him selfe on the other side we magnifie the great name of the eternall God and prayse his glorious grace towardes vs in Jesus Christ that as it is written He that glorieth let him glory in the Lord. To whō as the same is due be all honour glory power dominion c. for euer Now let y e godly reader hardly iudge whether doctrine professiō the papists or ours serue more to the setting forth of God his honour and glory be more godly and sound groū ded on the sacred scriptures and sticking precisely to Gods law without breaking any 〈◊〉 thereof bee more necessary also and profitable for vs in the course of this transitorie life amids our many and manifold grosse corruptions and imperfections which we humbly acknowledge to be in our 〈◊〉 in other yea euen in the best yet neither flatter our selues therein nor teach other so where the papists set vp merits workes of supererrogatiō c. As to geue yet further example euen in this place of this papists corrupting of the holy scriptures to mans praise and gods and Christes dishonour Let vs consider one onely place by him selfe heere alleadged He pretendeth it to be in the first chapter of S. Pauls epistle to the Collossians but as he began with forgerie corrupting the words and sence of the holy ghost in the first text of scripture that he alledged out of S. Paule in the. 14. to the Romans as we haue seen in y e beginning of this his treatise So in this place now which is his last text concludeth he and bindeth vp the whole with corruption forgery stil he hath wanted none in the body middes of his discourse he is like him selfe