riddles Saint Hier in praefat commen in Eph. Saint Aug. Ep. 119. cap. 21. saith The things c. Saint Gregorie hom 6. in Ezech and many others confesse the same Contrary to the expresse words of their owne Bible Math. 23. 2. 2. 3. * Note here that he doth not say whosoeuer but whatsoeuer giuing vs thereby to vnderstand that not onely the bonds of sinne but as well all other knots and difficulties in matters of saith and manners are to be loosed by Saint Peter and by the Pastors that succeed him in the Church See more to this effect Deut. 17. 8. See Aggee the 2. and 11. 2 Chron. 19. 8. See Fathers which affirme the same S. Gregor Nazian in Oratione excusat Tertul. lib. de praescrip Haeret S. Cyprian Lib. 1. Epi. 3. S. Aug. lib. 1. cont Cres cap. 33. lib. cont epist Fund ca. 5. Whether now wilt thou beleeue so great a Bishop as S. Anselme or some other Host or Hostesse that sell bottle-ale Contrary to express words of their owne Bible 1. 2. 3. Thas Traditions are to be receiued see more Shall then the saying of some vnlearned Baker ouer beare great Saint Basil See Fathers that affirme the same S. Basil lib. de spirit Sanct. ca. 27. saith that some things we haue from Tradition of the Apostles both which haue force alike vnto godlinesse Some things wee haue from Scripture other things from the Apostles Traditions both which haue like force vnto godlinesse Shall then the saying of some vnlearned Baker ouer-beare great Saint Basil And consequently cannot erre See more Iohn 16. 13. Therefore it is not forbidden in holy Scripture the publike seruice of the Church to bee in a tongue not vnderstood by the Assistants Now the names of the twelue Apostles are these the first Simon which is called Peter Therefore c. And what other thing is it for Peter to confirme and strengthen his brethren than to practice and exercise his greatnesse ouer them For he that doth strengthen and confirme is greater and they who are strengthened c. are made thereby inferiors to him who doth strengthen and confirme them See more for proofe hereof c. See Fathers that affirme the same Theoph. in 22. Luk calleth Peter Prince of the Disciples Eusebius in Chron First Bishop of Christians S. Cyril of Hier. Cat. 2. Prince and most excellent of all the Apostles S. Chrys hom 55. in Mat. Pastor and Head of the Church Cont. Crescon 3. 15. Contrary to their own Bible 2 Thes 2. 3. For so Saint Peter should then be Antichrist for he was Pope and the very first of Popes Therefore the great Antichrist shall be a particular man Contrary to expresse words of their owne Bible See more Mat. 16. 19. See Fathers that affirme the same Contrary to the expresse words of your owne Bible Therefore sinnes may be confessed vnto man See the Fathers who affirme the same Tertul. lib. ad Mart. ca. 1. Pope Vrban the second graunted a plenary Indulgence to such as would goe to the Holy-Wars An. Christi 160. Hence hath the ground of Indulgences beene alwayes taken but more principally from the super abundant merit of Iesus Christ Whence it appeareth that man by assistance of Gods grace may doe some things counselled And these we call workes of supererogation See one Father for the same in stead of many I could produce See more Eccles 15. 14. Is it not then plaine wilfulnesse to denye Freewill See Fathers that affirme the same S. Iren. Lib. 4. cap. 7. Contrary to express words of their owne Bible Briefly if the Commandements were impossible they could binde no man For it is not to bee conceiued how one should sinne in a thing which hee could not possibly auoid It is not to be conceiued how one should sin in a thing which hee could not possibly auoid Lastly Saint Basill who saith it is an impious thing to say that the commandements of God are impossible See more 1 Cor. 9. c. See Fathers that affirme the same S. Ambrose de Apolog. Dauid ca. 6. S. Hier. lib. 3. cont Pelag. S. Aug. de spirit lit cap. vlt. 1. 2. 3. Contrary to the expresse words of their owne Bible See more Ose 13. 9 c. See Fathers that affirm the same S. Aug. lib. 1. ciuit Tert. de Orat cap. 8. S. Cyprian Lib. 4. Epist 2. S. Ambrose Lib. 2. de Cain et Abel will nâ—t that we refer vnto God the preuarication of Adam or treason of Iudas though hee knew the sin before it was committed Contrary to their owne Bible Therefore S. Paul himself was not assured infallibly A point of doctrine so improbable that we will not labour to ouerthrowe it by any further proof of Fathers Contrary to expresse words of their owne Bible Mat. 18. 10 Therefore they had their Angell-keeper This very passage Saint Cyril of Alexandria Lib. 4. con Iulian. applieth to our Angel-keeper See more Acts 12. 14. 1. Cor. 11. 10. Contrary to expresse words in your owne Bibles Zach. 1. 9 10 11. Now what I pray you is a praier if this be not Contrary to their owne Bible That this was spoken to a true Angell and not to Christ Basil l. 3. c. Eunomium S. Chrys ho. 7. in laud. S. Pauli and vpon 1. of Col. and S. Hier. vpon 66 of Esay Which beeing so who for shame can say He prayed not vnto him See Fathers that affirme what hath beene said touching Angels For some such my self haue met with Therefore Saints deceased haue appearea to some on earth At Saint August witnesseth Lib. de cura mortis cap. 14. Nor can any be so senslesse as to say they pray for them selues Contrary to their owne Bible If an Horse or an Asse should pray c. Where note that Theodoret paraphrasing vpon Baruch interpreteth this very place as Catholiques doo Now is the Sunne more cleare than that Saints pray for vs Iob 1. 5. 〈◊〉 S. August himself expounds this very place as Catholiques doo in his Annot. vpon Iob. If it had not been the common custome in the time of Iob to inuocate the Saints deceased it had bin friuâ—lous for Eliphas to haue asked Iob to which of the Saints he wou'd t 〈…〉 See more Contrarie to expresse words of their owne Bibles In second of Kings but is the 4 by the account of Catholiques 13. 21. S. Chrysost To. 5. cont Gentil quòd Christus sit Deus in an whole Booke proues heerby and by the like vertue of other Saints that Christ their Lord and Master is God whose seruants napkins and shadows could do such wonders Are they not therefore fooles and blind that keepe such a â—ooting at Holy-bread Hooker Poor Protestant whither now is thy figure fled See Fathers that affirm the same S. Ignat. in his Epist ad Smyr Iustin Mar. Apol. 2. ad Antoninum Now say the truth and shame the Diuell are not they sick in their wits which will oppose such plaine Scriptures Deuter. 23. 22. Psal 66. 13. Psal 19. 11. 1. Tim. Math. 5. 12. Ier. 35. 5. Therefore it is grounded c. Contrary to their owne Bibles These freed Captiues cannot bee the soules of the Saued which no man in his right wits can call Captiues nor of the damned for so the diuels should be brought again into heauen Therefore they were the soules of the Fathers which Christ deliuered out of hell Acts 2. 27. Which very words Saint August applieth to the paint of Purgatory and addeth Who but an Infidel will deny Christ to haue descended into hell Ep. 99. ad Euodium Saint Ambrose Ser. 20 in Psal 118. Saint Hierome vpon 4 of Amos Saint August vpon the 37 Psal Saint Gregory lib. 4. Dial. explicate this very place of Purgatory Heb. 9. 1. 5. Lo Saint Paul calleth the pictures of the Cherubins which Salomon made an Ordinance of diuine Seruice which Protestants call the making of Idols who now shall we beleeue whether S. Paul or a Protestant When painting and grauing of 〈◊〉 tures is so farre from beeing Idolatry that it is prooued to be a Science diuinely infused by God himself Contrary to expresse words of their owne Bible and he said Draw not nigh hither c. Lo how cleer a place is produced heer against Protestants where an insensible â—reature without reason was commanded by God himselfe to be honored Now the principal reason why the Arke was worshipped was in regard of the Images that were vpon it which as S. Ierom saith the lewes did worship in his Ep. ad Marcellan Num. 21. 8. Hence are euidently prooued diuers things against Protestants c. See Fathers that affirme the same Saint Ambrose Ser. 1. in Psal 118. Where first our Lord hauing taught his owne Disciples that excellent Prayer of all praiers which hee would haue them to offer to him the Pater noster or our Lords Praier hee afterwards in many other places willeth them to pray alwaies as Luke 18. 1. The Angels in the Prophet Esay Esay 6. and the beasts in the Apoc. Apo. 4. which rest neither dâ—y nor night do thrice repeat c.
then heare them not Verba legis proferendo in the opinion of Saint Augustine so long as they speake Law This is not our Heresie but Catholique Doctrine De legis ac Mosis doctrinâ loquitur perindè enim est acsi dicat Omnia quae Lex Moyses vobis dixerint Scribis Pharisaeis recitantibus seruate saith Maldonate no friend nor fauourer of Protestants And after him Barradas another Iesuite in this resolution a very Protestant Hoc est saith he omnia quae legi Dei mandatis non repugnāt Ergo bound in the text with this restriction as you must and it is a plaine Gagge to the Gospel Luke 10. 16. He that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me and hee that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me Therfore c. You know not what you say All this we constantly beleeue But first I answere this is a text indeede to purpose to vindicate authority to the Church and her Pastors but not expressely which is your vndertaking by necessary consequence and indenied it is but you haue tied your selfe foole as you were vnto expresse words and expresse words are not here extant Secondly perhaps it is not so pat as you imagine because the men intended there and then were of another making fashion and account than euer were any since or before and therefore their priuiledges more peculiar of greater extent insomuch as that all were not to be heard so respectiuely as they were they without Scripture or allegation of Scripture hauing mission immediate from the Sonne himselfe which none euer had but they But thirdly I answere take it with Saint Cyprian Epist 96. and others in a larger extent ad omnes praepositos qui Apostolis vicariâ ordinatione succedunt vnto the Gouernours in the Church who succeede the Apostles in the Churches gouernement by imposition of hands and ordination and goe and answere your selfe out of Saint Bernard thus Be the commandement tendred by God or man as Gods agent it is to be receiued with like reuerence Vbi tamen Deo contraria non praecipit homo As farre as man doth not gain-say the will and commandement of the most high A flat Protestant in his assertion and vpon reason For a Nuntio must goe to his Commission Matth. 16. 19. I will giue vnto thee the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heauen and whatsoeuer thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in Heauen whatsoeuer thou shalt loose in earth shall be loosed in heauen Which text hath no such mention of relying vpon Church or Pastors in matters of faith expressed Nor hitherto perhaps any such meaning Your Compeeres were wont to cry vs downe with this text For Saint Peters iurisdiction ouer all and the Popes vniuersall power in claue potestatis You now waue that power it seemeth and cast aside that key and lay hold vpon that other key of knowledge Shall wee belieue your Puniship or them This cannot be good Catholique vnitie in so fundamentall a poynt of your Faith except for neere alliance betwixt Saint Peter and his Spouse the Church whatsouer is remembred of the one must be likewise true of the other But out with your Table-bookes you that haue them amongst you and Note the man will giue you something worth the noting that is our Sauiour doth not say whomsoeuer but whatsoeuer We take it and note it and meane to make good vse of it inferring thereupon through your owne confession that therefore St. Peter by Christs commission must in case of binding and loosing and executing the power of the Keyes which whether it be all one with binding and losing you are not agreed amongst your selues let whomsoeuer alone for euer and betake himselfe vnto whatsoeuer that is not meddle any more with Kings and Princes with cantoning of their Kingdomes and estates but content himselfe with whatsoeuer matters of fact inferiour matters of Faith and the like decisions at least with Causes and Persons within his owne Verge indeede Causes that is knots and difficulties for Persons are none of that combination So to shake hands with your memorable obseruation Therefore in matters of faith euen by their owne Bible wee must not relye vpon the written word onely but vpon whatsoeuer Saint Peter shall tie or vntie which we in this case are contented to doe and to say with that Councell of which he was a part you say President visum est spiritui sancto nobis the decision of the Catholique Church wee receiue as the dictate of the holy Spirit but be you sure it is the iudgment of the Church for you are good Proficients in equiuocation and present vs the Church vpon no better termes then if you should tender vs a man of straw for a perfect man or a shadow for a substance Indeede to this effect that is to as little purpose as that which went before In cases of controuersies and of doubts in matters of fact or ciuill cognisance which could not be determined by ordinary course of Law in the seuerall Counties as it were or Places of iudicature the Parties plaintife and defendants were to referre it to the Leuits Priests and Iudge in these daies that is to the Church and to the Pope you dreame and let your dreame goe once for truth and they must heare it determine it definitiuely It was capitall to refuse or to appeale Good but yet this commeth not home for they must determine it according vnto Law to which supreamest decision both concurre the Rule of right and determiner of right according to that rule In our construction to our present question the iudgement of the Church according vnto Scripture the selfe-same that the Protestant maintaineth In this text I graunt more is to be seene then in all the rest viz. when the word of the Lord came vnto Agge the Prophet Which thing how it sorteth with the present position I cannot tell speake those that can But the word that then came vnto him was this in the 12. verse Aske the Priests concerning the Lawe And the Priests answered according vnto Law thus and thus And this is resoluing of a doubt by the Priests but the doubt resolued according vnto Law so the written word is relyed vpon Not I my selfe the word onely Quis enim respondet Did euer any man deny that the Church and her Pastors are not to be heard speaking out of or else according vnto Scriptures Shew this and take it else Nihil ad rhombum That of 2 Chron. 19. 8. is all one with Deuter. 17. 8. an exemplification of that rule a practice according vnto that direction there somewhat more For hereby it appeareth that the Precept was not for Tell the Church and heare her Pastors but goe take the ordinary course appointed the iudgement of a standing court mixt of Clergie and of the Laitie as it were our court of high Commission or indeede the Starre-chamber consisting of both robes
recouered after his fall and perseuered vnto the end Our Sauiour said not to him thou shalt not deny mee but That thy faith fayle not and that his faith did not eternally fayle it was out of his speciall fauour vnto him and care of him saith Chrysostome hom 83. in Math. This is the prime true and literall meaning of the Text euen in the opinion of your owne Partiaries that Christs prayer was personall for Saint Peter restrained vnto Saint Peter alone which being so first setled and acknowledged Peter may be said in a secondary sense to sustaine the person of the whole Catholique Church in which sense many and they no Protestants doe vnderstand it And so his Faith that is the Faith of the Church fayled not either totally or finally no not in the greatest eclipse that euer was because Christ was euer heard in that which he prayed for and he prayed for the Church The refiners of Popery the quintessense of villany the Iesuites haue inuented a third sense to fit the purpose more than the former This promise was made say they to Peter not personally but as Pope And therein was inferred thereby assurance made that the Pope neuer did neuer should neuer could maintaine decide hold belieue any thing against Faith A thing not heard of but out of such mouthes a late dayes False in euent for their faith hath failed totally finally vtterly for euer False according to themselues and their other resolutions For Peter was not Bishop much lesse Pope when our Sauiour Christ prayed for him insomuch as by inchoation when hee denied Christ saith Bellarmine And good reason for his saying so lest his successours might fall into the same predicament His principality in and ouer the Church was not inuested in him vntill after our Sauiours Resurrection Thus hee de Rom. Pontif. 4. 8. therefore hee did not pray for him as Pope Therefore Bellarmine contradicteth himselfe and is contrary to his companions Therefore this prater gagleth hee knoweth not what against his owne rules and against his Masters As also out of Matth. 16. 18. The gates of Hell shall not preuaile against it It What Saint Peters Faith Was the Church therefore built vpon Saint Peters Faith Take heede of that It is the Church not his Faith nor his Person nor his Papacy But let it for once be his Faith I answere there is a twofold preuayling against First to ouercome So Iosua in fight preuayled against Amalec by the signe of the Crosse rather than the sword Secondly a preuayling against to destroy So did Saul preuaile against the same Amalec The Gates of Hell did not preuayle against Peters Faith to vndoe it For being lapsed hee recouered and mightily preuayled against them They did preuaile against it to ouercome him For he forswore and denyed his Master The Faith of Marcellinus and Liberius fayled but they recouered as Saint Peter did The Faith of Honorius and Iohn 12 fayled happely hee recanted before his death and so his Faith did not fayle finally But Iohn 12. liued and dyed in his Faith that is in his Sinne and so Body and Soule went to the Diuell Saint Peters Faith fayled onely for a time Of this speake the Protestants His Faith fayled Saint Peters faith did not finally or irrecouerably fall Thus intended our Sauiour in that saying I haue prayed that thy Faith fayle not But Sir it mattereth not much what became of his Faith His Person is the thing to be stood vpon his Power Principality Papall Prerogatiues seated therein this I trow is so cleare in holy Scriptures no great neede to fortifie it by or from the Fathers and yet I maruaile why if so cleare there wee haue so few Texts of holy Scriptures for it onely two Texts nay scarcely that For one of these is cleare for another thing And againe whatsoeuer you vaunt of Fathers needelesse to be brought it is more than presumption you had not one Father to fling at this Faith not fayling For when you haue them you spare them not IX That a Woman may be supreame Gouernesse of the Church in all Causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall as Queene Elizabeth was QVeene Elizabeth was With lye and all No Protestant euer saide so of Queene Elizabeth No Protestant euer thought so of any Woman You shamelesse pennes and brazen faces You haue often vouched Caluin against such Gouernement whom you make the Patriarch fondly of our Profession and yet you impute it to our Doctrine Lyers in this or in that needes Can you of your knowledge say this title was giuen vnto Queene Elizabeth Did shee euer practise it actually or challenge it habituall to her Person or her State And if it had beene challenged or giuen in Her time seeing that it is not at present but disclaimed by him that best may and seeing it dyed if yet it euer liued together with her what meaneth this quarreller to stirre vp a new allayed strife and trouble things setled and well disposed of The truth is Queene Elizabeths stile was no other then than King Iames is now mutatis mutandis Ouer all persons in all Causes not and all causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Ciuil in these her Maiesties Realmes and Dominions next vnder God supreame Gouernour Can your small vnderstanding put no difference betwixt Ouer all and In all betwixt Persons and Causes ouer all Persons in all Causes is one thing Ouer all Persons and all Causes is farre another thing Ouer Each or ouer Causes without Persons looketh your way But Causes with Persons ouer the Parties in their proceedings is no such exorbitances no Scripture expresse none inferred against it to any purpose We doe not professe much lesse propose or propugne that Princes are Heads or Gouernours to any such intent as to coyne or set abroad new Formes of Faith to determine what is defide what not as your side belyeth vs and beareth your Proselites in hand we doe Wee giue no such authority to any humane Power They were of you that did it at Trent that cast it vpon your Lord God the Pope He was one of you none of our side Stephen Gardner by name who to flatter the Prince in state and keepe himselfe in those hurring times in his fauour openly auouched as Cardinal Poole relateth That the King might take away the Cup from the Laity Potestas enim summe est penes regem For the King hath supreamest Power Such aphorismes neuer came out of our mouthes We say Princes haue supreame Power in Earth vnder God ouer all Persons in all Causes whatsouer within their Dominions euen in Causes meerely Ecclesiasticall to compell them to doe their duties by the Ciuil Sword Not ouer all Causes to doe as they will to command or change beliefe or Faith Will it rellish better with you in Saint Augustines words Then this is our profession in his words Kings serue God as Kings if in their owne Realmes they command good things not alone which concerne the
required by the Communion Booke That the sicke person make a speciall Confession if hee feele his Conscience troubled with any weightie matter And likewise before the receiuing of the Lords Supper according to which doctrine and iniunction our Bishops doe or should enquire in their Visitations touching the vse and neglect of this so good an order as did that right learned and reuerend Bishop of Norwich Dr. Oueral of late A man for admirable learning and yet as strange humility in communicating his knowledge vnto any poore Scholler hardly equalled sure out-gone by none since the world had him The 21. Article enquired of in his Visitation 1619. concerning Ministers is Whether doth your Minister before the seuerall times of the administration of the Lords Supper admonish and exhort his Parishioners if they haue their Consciences troubled and disquieted to resort vnto him or some other learned Minister and open his griefe that hee may receiue such ghostly counsell and comfort as his Conscience may be relieued and by the Minister hee may receiue the benefit of Absolution to the quiet of his conscience and auoyding of scruple And if any man confesse his secret and hidden sinnes being sicke or whole to the Minister for the vnburthening of his Conscience and receyuing such spirituall consolation doth or hath the said Minister at any time reuealed and made knowne to any person whomsoeuer any crime or offence so committed to his trust contrary to the 113. Canon that hee might be punished accordingly Which is not like the iniunction of those that hold Wee must confesse our Sinnes but onely vnto God Our people happely are negligent in performing this most behoofefull vse and practice of the Church but the judgement and resolution of the Church is not auerse from it as you belye vs much lesse is it our decision We must not confesse our Sinnes but onely vnto God The words of our Bible Matth. 3. 5. 6. are expresse for confessing I graunt and for confessing of Sinnes too But not expresse for publique or priuate confessing not for confessing vnto whom to man or vnto God not whether in generall they confessed themselues sinners or descended to some particulars there more ordinary direct and enormious sinnes These are not instanced discerned nor determined Writers are diuided in opinion You know it not onely because there was confessing of Sinnes it must needes be such confession of such Sinnes as you imagined Haue you read what Maldonate that learned Iesuite hath said of such bold Bayards as your selfe Quis vnquam Catholicus tam indoctus fuit vt ex hoc loco Confessionis probaret Sacramentum Was there euer any Catholique such a blocke as would goe about to proue out of this place the Sacrament of Confession Not in his time or before peraduenture Maldonate could not prophecie nor fore-see therefore that such an vnlettered Dolt would rise vp after him I doe speake but in his Language Indoctus is as much in effect If you meant not of sacramentall Confession bucus blennus es What other Confession could you speake of If of Confession sacramental in Maldonates iudgment bardus es howsoeuer fungus fatuus es For if all those that went out vnto Iohn Baptist came to him for shrift hee had shriuing worke enough for seauen yeares I adde It is happely intended They confessed vnto God For it is not said they confessed vnto Iohn And then what is become of your Therefore sinnes may be confessed vnto man Secondly your tenet is of must be not may be They did it voluntarily once therefore often and againe Wee must necessarily doe Thirdly they did it once in all their life and that on occasion and time extraordinary at their Baptisme not againe for any thing that wee know Your Confession is penitentiall flat opposite vnto this in Baptisme You may as well inferre out of this Text reiteration of Baptisme as reiteration of Confession Baptisme in Iordan necessarily as Confession of Sinnes necessarily So many incumbrances are in the words so many Non sequiturs vnto the maine That of Act. 19. 18. I graunt is more proper and as Bellarmine obserueth in some sort it is true that the words are of speciall Confession but yet they come not home vnto Auricular Confession in priuate into the Priests eare Againe it was not of inforcement or necessitie but of voluntary motion Nor is it expressed which is most materiall whether it were made onely vnto God or also vnto man If you be put to proue it what proofe or euidence can you make for it The Text hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Confessing and declaring openly what they had done Before men not vnto Paul or any Priestin priuate but vnto God before men that all the Assembly might take notice of it and vnderstand it That of Numb 5. 6. is for Confession vnto at least before the Priest but is your iudgement so crased to award vs the iniunction and practice of this Iewish Ceremony for a ground of Confession Sacramentall If so your braines are rather to be purged then your error refuted If you take it but for typicall as you must and will if you vnderstand your selfe then such Propositions are not argumentatiue Nor was there here enioyned any particular enumeration of their sinnes in kind but onely of that one sinne for which the Sin-offering was brought for which an attonement was sought to be procured by the Priest Peccatum illud quod feceram is Bellarmines obseruation and so no way for the point in Controuersie Confession Auricular vnto the Priest vnlesse onely by way of equality and conueniencie as left vnto vs free and not vpon obligation as to them which helpe you not Thus we haue no great satisfaction out of Scripture Goe and see Fathers that affirme as little Irenaeus lib. 1. cap. 9. speaking of some silly women one or two seduced by Marcus a Sorcerer and Gnostique Hereticke relateth thus much that being reconciled and regained to the Catholike Church they confessed Marcus had abused them carnally which nothing promoteth their Catholique Cause vnlesse their ghostly Fathers should shriue them in secret as Marcus did They might confesse that before a temporall ludge vnto some Neighbour or friends of their owne To a Priest some Priests and yet not in aurem or if so yet not by speciall enumeration of all the circumstances or relation of their other sinnes It might be in the face of the Church in generall Irenaeus words are not confined Hae saepissimè conuersae ad Ecclesiam Dei confessae sunt secundum corpus exterminatas se ab eo velut Cupidine inflammatas valdè se illum dilexisse They confessed it often vnto many what Magicall inchantments he vsed to besot them Therefore not likely in Sacramentall Confession where hauing receiued absolution of the Priest it were but idle to confesse it againe vnlesse the man imagined the Protestants denyed and tooke away all Confession vpon any termes what neede
maintained and iustifiable Article 32. Bishops Priests and Deacons are not commanded by Gods Lawe eyther to vow the estate of single life or to abstaine from marriage Therefore it is lawfull also for them as for all other Christian men to marry at their owne discretion as they shall iudge the same to serue better vnto godlinesse I finde no vow mentioned in this Article nor leaue giuen to marry notwithstanding vow it is your addition to scandalize the Doctrine which otherwise you durst not touch Marriage is honourable amongst all men This you doe not deny that single life is essentiall vnto the Clergie and indispensable none of your side affirmeth that I know but nonus Dogmatistes in Italiâ as Cassander calleth him Francisco Tunia◠the Iesuite It is but an Ecclesiasticall sanction this both you and we set downe It is not deined but notwithstanding that generall licence to all the Church may restraine marriage vnto some at some time vpon some occasions as wee vse in our Colledges at this day which is no restraint but a condition tendred Leaue your fellowship if you marry The Primitiue Church vsed I deny not this conditionall restraint in some cases to some men vpon some occasion they might so doe without tax or blame and so may you or wee for ought I know with moderation or discretion So the question is not Whether Priests may marry but Whether it bee conuenient for them so to doe You say no neuer at no time Wee deny this rigor and leaue it indifferent to their owne discretion resoluing that at some time for some causes it is conuenient and to bee permitted to some men at some time for some considerations it may be denied to marry Your Church for reasons best known to her selfe though apparant enough to all hath a long time doated vpon single life of Priests for I cannot say chaste and the better to secure her selfe of that state hath laid a tye of conscience a band by oath vpon them admitting none to holy orders but such as first solemnly take that vow which hath many times often filled your Churches with knaues and dunses abundantly honester men and discreet Scholars refusing such a tye Wee aduise you not to break your vow perswade not your selues so we counsell and aduise you by all meanes to keep it liue honest marry freely if you be free if not we say not to you Do as Alexander did with Gordius knot Cut it in pieces when you cannot vndo it It was ill to vow so vnaduisedly worse to force you to it on no necessity yet worse to break it securely with presūptiō butworst of all adhinnire after fresh maidenheads or neighbors beds cōtinually We say you did ill to vow absolutely that which was not in your power to performe a mischief past that cannot bee remedied must bee relieued what it may If you haue vowed keepe it on Gods name it is sinne to breake it I make no question of it which was deliberately discreetly possibly promised in things not against nature common right or reason for euen in a bond a condition euill impious or impossible is voyd and bindeth not they say I deny not vowes in the new Testament they may bee meanes vnto and parts of Gods worship as well in the new Testament as the old So Gregory Nazianzen imposed a vow vpon himselfe not to take the name of God in vaine and kept it So haue many other lawfully and profitably done doe you so and we commend you for it The Texts you produce doe not one of them speak of the marriage of Priests or religious persons or any other that vowed chastity vnto God of vowes they speake and of vowes to be kept but Quid haec ad Bacchum Your promise was your vndertaking is to prooue by expresse words of our owne Bibles that the vowes of Priests and religious persons touching single life should bee kept and yet neyther doe wee deny the one nor you prooue the other See your honesty in this also and insufficiency to performe XL. That fasting and abstinence from meates is not grounded vpon holy Scripture nor causeth any spirituall good FAsting is abstaining from all meates or from som certaine meates the first istruly Fasting which must bee limited and confined to a time for so totally to fast is impossible The second is dieting rather then fasting and yet is that which this man principally meaneth by Fasting as speaking according to the tongue of Ashdod in the Church of Rome that is more for appearances then true substances Fasting is manifold obiectiuely as it hath beene practised by Iewes by Pagans by Christians This man should speak of the Christian Fast onely but huddleth all altogether without distinction Fasting is distinct subiectiuely Among Christians there is or may be vnderstood a naturall a morall an ecclesiasticall Fast for necessity for remedy conueniencie policy piety This addle-headed Fellow cares not to put a difference between the kindes nor to adde quantity to his position that men might know where to haue him and finde what he should say He cannot be ignorant that we commend Fasting as a profitable help vnto deuotion and piety Hee cannot chuse but knowe that wee command it not onely for ciuil but religious ends and vse it in times of speciall note for fitting dispatches of principall alloy In our Ember-weeks for giuing of Orders in our Lent to humble our selues against Easter vpon the Vigils of Saints and other set daies which we ground vpon Scripture and vse to this purpose To cause spirituall good So Scriptures and Fathers serue to no purpose being brought to proue that which is not denied We ground it on Scripture but not that alleaged of the Rechabites We haue warrant sufficient from Christian practice and direction We need no addresse to Iewish either Nazarits or else Rechabites for example and if we should yet what haue we to do with this pretended They drank no wine at all none of them for euer as the Icthyophagi of Aethiopia eat no flesh a generall custome no Fast They did it out of a politick respect because they were strangers in the Land Wee must haue a religious example to serue our turn And lastly they were yet vnder the Law the Vow of the Nazarite might as well bee pleaded and all Iewish Ceremonies for obseruation vnto Christians So ignorant is this Idle-pate Otherwise wee ground Fasting vpon holy Scripture and could adde many moe places of Fathers to be seen the true end and intent whereof is double 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bee anointed with the holy Ghost and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bee washed and rinsed from our sinnes but it needs not It sufficeth onely we confesse most willingly the ground of Fasting to be diuine the vse of Fasting to be singular So these goodly proofs touch not vs at all Vse them against those that vse not Fasts for lastly it is our practice XLI That Iesus Christ
It is well he told vs not in what Chap. we might finde it Such Roters as these are the men that talk of Fathers amongst their Gossips and Proselytes and yet are so stupid as not to know what works a common Father hath written Besides had Tertul. wrote such a second book or sayd any such matter in that second book a Protestant of but meane reading could tell him Tertullian wrote that book beeing lapsed into Montanisme and so of no authority in the Church for resolution though for relation But the truth is the man did but vse Tertullian's name for a cypher to fill vp a number make a fair dumb shew of a Shepheard with a sheepe on his shoulders on a Chalice which is the picture he looked at in Tertul. But I can send him to Tertullian to learne how like a Woodcock hee remembred those Texts of Scripture for the Cherubins Sic et Cherubin et Seraphin aureâ in arce figuratum exemplum certè simplex ornamentum accommodata suggestut longe diuersos habendo causas ab Idololatriae conditione ob quam similitudo prohibetur non videntur similitudinum prohibitarum Legi refragari non in eo similitudinis statu deprehensa ob quem similitudo prohibetur Lib 2. con Mar. 22. This commeth home to the reason why God ordained them and answereth your Cauill to the full As for your Images take his description in the like de Praescript cap XII Igitur si statuas et imagines frigidas mortuorum suorum simillimas non adoramus quas milui et mures et aranâ—ae intelligunt nonne laudem magis quà m poenam merebatur repudium agniti erroris Hee thought not then very honorably of Imagines whom wee are bidden goe see for I know not what engrauing on the Chalices For Gregory Nazianzen I did much maruaile what it was wee might see in him concerning Images who writeth onely a deprecatory Epistle in behalf of the Inhabitants of Diocaesarea vnto Olympius the Emperours Lieutenant For I could finde nothing tending vnto Images but onely this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is not much if the Statuae bee demolished and cast downe though it be indeed a pitty to haue such a thing done And what is heere to bee seene any way to purpose This man I beleeue had read or rather heard of Billius note vpon the place this Hic obserua Gregorij quoque tempore aedes sacras statuis imaginibus ornatas fuisse and hauing heard of it made much adoe about it whereas Nazianzen doth not so much as mention Churches nor Chappels the statues hee speaketh of were publique Ornaments of the City and as for worshipping of them it came not within the compasse of his thoughts Billius meant well to the Catholique cause and out of his affection set downe that which hee would haue had Nazianzen speake but not what he did say for Nazianzen not so much as squinteth that way More may any man maruaile at his trifling with Saint Basil on Barlaam the Martyr What shall I call thee O valiant Souldier of Christ Iesus Shall I call thee a Statue or Image of brasse why it is not so solid or substantiall as thou art for Fire doth melt it but fire could not cause thee pluck forth thy hand This is not that passage peraduenture intended but that which insueth Exurgite nunc athleticorum gestorum pictores mutilam ducis imaginem vestro illustrate artificio et obscurius à me depictum coronatum athletam vestrae industriae coloribus conspicuum reddite not with a pencill conceiue not Basil to haue beene a Painter but with a penne So that Homers describing Achilles Vlysses in this mans construction is painting in a table with colours and portraiture to the life None but a Statue would thus discourse or one more senslesse than a block What Basil and Nazianzen could not doe Augustine shall supply who witnesseth that in his time Christ was to bee seene painted in many places betwixt Saint Peter and Saint Paul So is hee in many Churches with vs betwixt the blessed Virgin and Saint Iohn Euangelist So was the holy Virgin by Saint Luke you say So let them be euery where if you please Not the making of Images is misliked not the hauing of Images is condemned but the prophaning of them to vnlawfull vses in worshipping and adoring them XLIIII That no man hath at any time seene God and that therfore his picture or Image cannot be made IGnorant Blunderer whither wilt thou Sure the man is not wel in his wits that challengeth the Protestant vpon these termes No man at any time hath seene God Is it not plaine expresse Scripture that Ioh. 1. 18. No man hath seene God at any time Exo. 33. 20. Thou canst not see my face For there shall no man see mee and liue No man hath no man can in this life no nor in that which is to come So Saint Paul 1. Tim. 6. 16. Whom neuer man saw nor yet can see The reason is rendred by a Pagan 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mortall men haue mortall eyes and God inhabits Immortality and yet this Gagger thinks to gag the Spirit of truth by opposing Texts of Scripture to the contrary that a man may see God Gen. 3. 8. Where God appeared vnto Adam walking in the Garden of Paradise in a corporall forme Accursed Glosser to corrupt the Text There wee read They heard the voyce of the Lord God walking in the Garden in the coole of the day So Hearing and Seeing is all one with this man that hath lost both Hearing and Seeing vnderstanding too A voice in his Philosophy is a corporall forme and so to heare one speake is to see one go and Moses said he knew not what Deuter. 4. 12. You heard the voice of words but saw no similitude saue a voice A whip for a fool rather than an answer to his folly Gen. 28. 12 13. God appeared vnto Iacob standing aboue the Ladder whereon the Angels ascended and descended In what shape did he appear can you tell The Lord stood aboue it so are the words and spake Hee might there stand and speak as hee did in Sinah and yet as saith the Scripture they see no shape So that yet wee haue nothing but belying of Scripture and deprauing the Text to countenance Idolatry in consequence Exod. 33. 11. To Moses He spake face to face as a man speaketh vnto his friend Your great Prophet S. Thomas shall stop your mouth 1. 2. q. 98 ar 3. Secundum opinionem populi loquitur Scriptura The Scripture speaks according vnto popular opinion who thought that Moses talked face vnto face with God cùm per subiectam creaturam id est per Angelum Nubem ei loqueretur appareret where as indeed God appeared vnto and talked with him by the meanes of creatures an Angell in a cloud Or if not so and this answer will not serue by face to face the Scripture meaneth a certain eminent and
the Decisions and Edicts of Popes the inquisitors of Heresie and such like inhibitions to the contrary There are publique Resolutions held of all and priuate opinions maintained by some by men particular in their owne Conceits and Societies in a more generall agreement in things indifferent not de fide or if yet of a looser and lower tye and alloy As those are proposed resolued maintained tendred and commanded So the other are free and disputed and questioned not enioyned as de fide or Subscribed because Problematicall and no more If a man should collect the priuate opinions of priuate men which are differences in Schooles among Schollers nay of the Master of Controuersies or of sentences and impute them vnto the Church of Rome the Faith of Rome this Gagger if hee know what to doe and his gagle would refuse them disclaime them thinke themselues wronged proclaime themselues belied as Bellarmine doth often in the like case Ex aequo bono and more maiorum we may doe the like Yet see the honesty of this Imposter against vs in this his poore pamphlet He hath collected together out of C. W. B. and such companions and disposed as it hapned without order or method xlvii seuerall propositions All pretended errours of the Church of England because all contrary to expresse words of our owne Bibles and repugnant to Antiquity in the Writings of the Fathers so to fasten Noueltie and Heresie and Impietie vpon our Church Of these xlvii onely viii or ix are the Doctrines of our Church 6. 13. 15. 18. 30. 36. 42. 44. and yet not all these as they are by him abused embeasted confounded and circumscribed The rest are partly left at libertie by the Church not determined for doctrines either way Many imposed by him on the Church are directly disclaimed abandoned oppugned by the Church and the flat contrary to them commended and commanded And accordingly belieued practised and maintained against oppugners A maior part are the meere opinions priuate fancies peculiar propositions of priuate men many of them disclaimed by the very Authors some falsely imputed to their Authors some raked together out of the lay-stals of deepest Puritanisme as much opposing the Church of England as the Church of Rome So that whatsoeuer is in this Gagger is or childishly fancied or ridiculously mistaken or wilfully peruerted or slanderously imputed or maliciously proposed or ambiguously conceiued or not iustified any way as may euidently appeare in the particulars in my answere ensuing In which Whatsoeuer is to be owned by the Church as resolued and tendred and subscribed in the authorised Doctrine or Practise thereof is by mee iustified fully against him and shall be maintained against his betters as not contrary to Antiquitie in the Tradition of the Church much lesse vnto Scriptures in our owne Bibles What is inuolued by him malitiously to procure enuy to the side is explicated and asserted to the proper tenents and termes it is shewed how farre the Church of England resolueth where and what things are left free and vndetermined for men to hold with them or against them Priuate opinions are left vnto their Authors and Abettors olde enough and able enough to speake for themselues In a publique cause as is the Faith of Gods Church peculiar interests that I know haue no such share at least ouer-awing as to commaund vndertaking against opponents In answering of whom to come vnto my course obserued with him which I thought fit in conueniency to let the Reader vnderstand for my owne excuse and iustification I haue gone along with him cap apee and point per point first for his Scriptures both expresse and to be seene then for his Fathers that affirme the same that is nothing to purpose as little as his Scriptures did as I could finde them quoted or could guesse at them by imagining where they mought be probably spoken withall or where I could remember to haue some time left them For our Catholiques Romish secure no question of the goodnes of their cause or rather relying vpon the tractablenesse of their patient Proselytes so they can make a dumbe shew with scoring vp Fathers doe not much trouble themselues with caring where or what they say So this Gagger stood affected it is more than apparant For I was often left to goe blowe the seeke for his Fathers For poore man he tooke them vp as hee could finde them by tale without weight or triall Some few peraduenture in the country abroad but the maior part by farre out of C. W. B. What he is I cannot tell and as hee hath them truely or falsly quoted rightly registred or mistaken so in euery poynt are they in the Gagge vnlesse worse Such supine negligence secure discoursing childish disputing in such a Master in Israel Such infant-like performance in such a Goliah vpon whose head the Philistines haue set vp their rest I speake no more in effect than I haue heard of him since I vndertooke him who can beare Beside the scurrilous fellow according to his breeding and education it seemeth sure I am fitting enough his disposition commeth in with Coblers and Bakers and Tinkers and Tapsters and Hosts and Hostesses and bottles and bottle-ale Insulteth vpon poore Protestants Out of their wits sicke in their wits Prateth of Horses and Asses praying and such like stuffe out of his Coblersshop or Hostesses ale-bench no doubt And who is able to possesse his Soule or containe his pen in patience that hath to doe with such Impostors Mountebankes and Buffones such rake-shames and rakehels as these ramblers are I confesse that subiects of this nature should aboue all be moderately calmely and quietly handled but so if wee meete with moderate men with quiet men with temperate honest and discreet men with men not proiected prostituted and giuen ouer vnto lying calumniating traducing of all that concurre not with them as this companion and his comerades are who haue no intent to make vp any ruines or decayed places in the Church to heale the sores cure the wounds mollifie the swellings cleanse out the empostumations in the mysticall body of Christ that ayme not at peace nor would procure vnity nor any way indeauour that those who professe Gods holy name may agree in the truth of his holy word and liue in vnity and godly loue but make their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their whole indeauour their speciall study day and night by all kinde of iniquity to keepe a faction on foot and maintaine opposition euen where it needeth not Such are to be curryed in their kinde and to be rubbed as they deserue in no case to be smoothed or sleeked ouer lest they please themselues too well in their impiety It was euer held lawfull to call a spade a spade Saint Paul gaue not Elimas any gentle termes nor did Saint Peter speake butter and hony vnto Simon Magus Our Sauiour himselfe that man of meekenesse called Herod a Fox and Iudas a Deuil when they deserued it
the Fathers XLII That there is no Purgatory fire or other prison wherein sinnes may be satisfied for after this life XLIII That it is not lawfull to make or to haue Images XLIIII That no man hath at any time seene GOD and that therefore his picture or Image cannot be made XLV That it is not lawfull to worship Images nor to giue any honour to any dead or insensible thing XLVI That blessing or signing vpon the fore-head is not founded on the Scripture XLVII That it is both superfluous and superstitious to repeate one and the same Prayer sundry times These XLVII seuerall positions are said to be Contrary to the expresse words of our owne Bibles whereof some are cited litterally others wee are sent to see with this Item See more and supposed farther to bee contrary to the Doctrine of the ancient Fathers vnto whom we are addressed often not euer with See Fathers that affirme the same Whatsoeuer Text or quotation is in the Gagge the Reader shall finde it in the Margine of this Answere or sometimes in a different Character in the Corps of the Answere So that no neede shall be of the Gagge vnto the Reader nothing being omitted in this Answere that is in the Gagge The Erratues that by reason of the Authors absence haue happened the Reader must be intreated to amend thus In the Preface Pag. 10. lin 27. vrged p. â—1 l. 〈◊〉 deeper p. 12. l. 12. whom p. 1â— l. 9. iuris p. 18. l. 17. â—â—â—as p. 19. l. â—5 gnâ—uiter p. 20. l 14. Prince p. 21. l. 27. iudgements p. 2â— l. 20. dropp writers l. 24. finde one that is p. 22 l. 22. Our In the Answere Pag. 15. lin 8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 43. l. 3. to be conuerted p. 57. l. 7. 〈◊〉 out l. â—8 went the. p. 59. l. 19. vpon him p. 66. l. 1. not so much p. 67. l. 〈◊〉 that w◠〈◊〉 83 l. â—0 â—â—â—is pos 〈…〉 i p. 90. l. 10. what then p. 120. l. 20. is possible p. 14â— l. â—2 vrged AN ANSVVERE TO THE LATE GAGGER of PROTESTANTS I. They maintaine in the first place that The Scriptures are easie to be vnderstood WHat hope can wee haue of honest and square dealing with this Catholick-copesâ—mate who beginneth so captiously and deceitfully as to play at fast and loose in ambiguities For no Protestant liuing affirmeth that all Scripture is easie No Papist liuing will or dareth say that no Scripture is easie If some Scripture be easie and some be hard this Generall Proposition The Scriptures are easie is true and this Generall Proposition The Scriptures are not easie is also true viz. Some Scripture is and some is not so This is easie that is hard That which the Protestants maintaine is it expresly against Scripture Yes saith this gagger Contrary to the expresse words of their owne bible 2 Pet. 3. 16. Where Saint Peter speaking of Saint Pauls Epistles saith In which are some things hard to be vnderstood Saint Peter saith but some things by this fellowes own confession he doth not say All things in Saint Pauls Epistles are hard or All Saint Pauls Epistles are hard nor indiffinitely Saint Pauls Epistles are hard but onely some things in his Epistles are hard That some things are it was euer granted that all Scripture all things in Scripture are easie it was neuer so much as dreamed So what contrariety of the Protestants doctrine is there vnto their owne bible No honesty in this fellow nor his director C. W. B. thus to peruert the state of the Question and fasten a lye vpon the Protestants I am sure That place of Esay not vnderstood by the Eunuch Acts 8. 30. 31. is not to purpose against the Protestants And Philip said vnto the Eunuch vnderstandest thou what thou readest and hee said How can I except some man should guide mee therefore c. This is but one particular place and proueth no more but one obscurity in one place of Scripture It is also a Prophecy and Prophecies are assised at obscurity The euents of Prophecies are obscure before they fall and being accomplished not straight-way discerned The Eunuch did know what was said but he could not tell of whom it was spoken The difficulty was but in one point and the hardnesse not generall neither but in part That partiall hardnesse but in one particular That particular but for a time Iudge Reader how many insufficiencies are in this allegation to proue that all Scripture is hard because one place a particular case in one point at that time was hard What honesty in that Proposer this Gaggers good Gossip C. W. B. who hath it thus The Eunuch could not vnderstand the Scriptures who could not vnderstand but one thing in the Scripture that we know Christ called two of his owne disciples fooles and beginning at Moses and all the Prophets hee expounded vnto them all the scriptures the things concerning himselfe before that they could vnderstand them First the answere is the same which serued for the former that the things which they vnderstood not were but some Scriptures Now it followeth not that all are hard because some were Secondly they were Prophecies and so obscure till their accomplishments Thirdly Prophecies of one subiect all the Messias Fourthly the Case is altered with them now they are now easie that were then hard and our Question is of Scripture at this day to men now adayes not of scripture then to men then liuing I adde farther they are fooled for their slownesse of heart that is not so much for a dis-ability to vnderstand those things there spoken of as for dis-proportion in their affection or dis-attention rather vnto those things not so obscure or difficult of themselues especially considering the times then The Shepheard being smitten the sheepe scattered and meeting with those occurrences which they looked not for in the fulfilling of their Hopes wee hoped it was he that should haue restored the kingdome of Israel so that a cloud of humane darkenesse and disheartnings were at that time cast vpon their affections and vnderstandings And if at some time I be ill-disposed to any businesse it is no argument I am so alway or should totally be excluded from medling therewith And lastly this their slownesse was but partiall to vnderstand something of one particular person Which obscurity if in the Subiect it selfe is nothing to obscurity vniuersall But yet further to this point This fellow came forth to quarrell not to plead for naked and bare truth else would he haue dealt sincerely and ingenuously not onely in propounding what the Protestants hold which he doth not but also in not belying the text as hee doth For is it found in our Bibles or in any Bible Hee expounded vnto them all the Scriptures or Hee expounded vnto them in all the Scriptures the things that concerned himselfe Thus I finde it and not otherwise For in this there is a sense in that other
there is none So that the Holy ghost is made to speake plaine non-sense to fit a turne for a Catholique cause This may stand and yet the Protestants assersion be not infeebled He expounded vnto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himselfe For they doe not deny but that some things are hard That other cannot stand For it implieth that all things are hard So we haue obseruable a pretty niggling tricke of a false knaue a small word In left out to marre all For with In the text is for this and no more Some things in Scripture needed exposition and therefore were hard But without In though there be no Sense but what simple Proselyte attendeth to that the implication is All Scriptures need Interpretation and so are all hard which the good Catholique beleeueth not himselfe dareth not auouch yet faine would haue his nouice take it so to traduce the tenent of the Protestants that some Scriptures are open and easie Thus in the very in-steppe of his stolen pamphlet he belyeth the Protestant for his opinion abuseth the Scripture to bolster his Forgery and yet for all that fighteth onely with his owne fancy as dogges by moone-light barke at their owne shadowes To your question then inferred vpon the premises I answere first As easie to be vnderstood of the vnlearned now as of them then who were none of the Learned ones at that time and had incident impediments at that time Secondly scriptures hard then vnto them may be and are easie now without any such Interpretation For one Day teacheth another and especially in Predictions as these all were that is after easie which at first was hard If now they be not easie there is no explicite faith implicite faith must saue all Sir Gagger whosoeuer you are know that Scripture is not all of one height depth or alloy Some was hard that now is easie Some easie now and euer Some yet hard but not for euer To be vnderstood but not in the way only in visione faciei when wee shall see face to face and know God as we are knowne and some points at least explicitely not now to bee vnderstood nor yet then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it was a secret a mystery saith Basil of Seleucia at the beginning shall neuer cease to be a mystery In some point or other the worke of our Redemption in Christ he meaneth See more who list they shall see nothing to purpose No Scripture saith Saint Peter is of priuate motion or Interpretation as you will Ergo what All Scripture is hard Teach me this Consequence and I will thanke you for my New-Logicke This I doe see where the Scripture is hard and needeth interpretation there that Spirit which dictated it at first must direct in the vnderstanding it at last For man is permitted to expound himselfe and best can giue his owne meaning So this Text is not to proue that Scripture is hard but to proue that in Case there be a Doubt we are not to addresse vnto priuate Fancies or peculiar opinions but to the Direction of Gods Spirit and that in the Church I subscribe Math. 13. 11. 36. it is remembred that Christ taught the People in Parables Well what if he did Why a Parable is a darke kinde of speech so that there is obscurity in the Scriptures I answer No man denyeth but there is obscurity No man denieth but Parables are obscure Some not all In some things not in all Those Parables were obscure admit it that are remembred there but they are not all the Parables that are in Scripture Nor are Parables the hundreth part of Scripture and many of them are of easie vnderstanding and many are expounded where proposed and when vnderstood best remembred most beneficiall to the Hearer Luke 24. 45. Then opened hee their vnderstandings that they might vnderstand the Scripture which act of our Sauiour vnto and vpon his Disciples at that time slow of heart may rather excite vnto then detar from the Reading of the Scriptures For that which hee did to them personally he will doe vnto all mediately and doth it vnto the simplest actually of those that are interessed in him though but by a generall tye For the poorest member of the Church doth now vnderstand that which he taught them that he was the Messiah the Promised seede according vnto Prophecies and Predictions of old then hard now easie 1 Cor. 12. 8. Saint Paul speaking of diuersity of guifts saith To one is giuen by the spirit the word of wisdome to another the word of knowledge by the same spirit which words are as much against vnderstanding Scriptures hard by interpretation as Scriptures easie with interpretation For those that haue it haue it by guift immediate by God without helpe or instruction Those that haue it not by warrant of this place and goe no further cannot haue it at all because these things remembred were all of Infusion of extraordinary indowment and so singular and peculiar Againe admit it in common course yet it is rather a warrant for facility of Scripture because there are designed Expositors or if for difficulty because expositors are needfull yet this difficulty is but in some to some not vniuersall of which we must be vnderstood and of no other if wee be rightly taken Luke 18. 34. The Disciples vnderstood none of those things Doth it follow they vnderstood not any thing in the Law or Prophets which were the Scriptures of those times If you cannot read a letter in Cipher can you not read a plaine letter in Italique hand Those things beside that they were not then written and so no part of Scripture and so not to purpose were particular and personall and not performed Now they are performed now they are in Scripture now easie to be vnderstood of all without Expositors the Sufferings of our Sauiour at Ierusalem To them then they were hidden are they now to you Catholikes Doe you not know Christ suffered at Ierusalem If you doe not I grant Scripture is hard and hidden but hidden vnto those that perish onely because they will hud-winke themselues and not see Not a Lixa Calo or Agaso not a shepheard or muleter but doth or else may know this now which then was a secret not knowen vnto many many particulars not vnto the blessed Virgin her selfe such difference there is in things wrought by time so little wisdome to take things at all times alike and to conclude alike Indeed the same that is the thing in question as little as those Texts doe and to as little purpose as those texts doe Irenaeus Lib. 2. 47. Hauing insisted vpon and instanced in obscurity in Gods word in Nature he proceedeth vnto Gods word in Scripture thus Si ergo in rebus creaturae quaedam quidem eorum adiacent Deo quaedam autem in nostram venerunt scientiam quid mali est si et eorum quae in scripturis requiruntur vniuersis
scripturis spiritualibus existentibus quaedam quidem absoluamus secundum gratiam Dei quaedam ante commendemus Deo If so be in the workes of Creation some keepe close vnto God in secret some are apprehended and vnderstood by vs what hurt or inconuenience is it if in Scripture all Scripture being spirituall there be something contayned which through assistance of Gods grace we can goe through with and againe some thing that we must leaue vnto God Iust the doctrine of the Protestants that some things may bee vnderstood some things past our vnderstanding Non solum in hoc saeculo so it followeth there sed et in futuro Not onely in this world but that to come that God may euer teach man euer learne of God The waters of Silo some where runne pleasantly and may be passed in other some places not foordable Origen singeth the same Protestant song and that in moe places then one of his bookes against Celsus as lib. 5. twise hom 14. vpon Exodus and other where The place you meane lib. 7. contra Celsum I thinke is this For you could not tell whereabout or what it was because your good founder C. W. B. failed you Celsus being a Pagan and an Epicure as happily you are made the same obiection I am sure which you doe now pag. 345. edit Graec-Lat that the Scripture was obscure and vncertaine the sense and meaning not to be found out by wise men so that the ignorant and indiscreet abused it at pleasure More then which no liuing Iesuite could haue said No Protestant would answere a Iesuite otherwise then Origen doth vnto that Pagan Celsus Certe ipsi Prophetae quicquid erat opus mox ab Auditoribus intelligi et quicquid ad corrigendos mores faciebat absque vllis involucris proposuerunt ijs ita vt Deus voluit The Prophets themselues expounded to their Auditors anon whatsoeuer was for them to be vnderstood and whatsoeuer serued to make them good men that they proposed vnto them as Gods will was they should plainly without obscurity at al. Had the Protestants feed him hee could not haue spoken more fully and to purpose in their cause and yet he proceedeth to declare why Figures Parables and Allegories are vsed therein a long discourse to purpose pag. 345. See him that will It is not denied Saint Ambrose Ep. 44. to Constantius compareth the holy scriptures vnto a Sea and calleth them a depth of Propheticall riddles Mare est scriptura diuina habens in se sensus profundos altitudinem Propheticorum aenigmatum in quod mare plurima introierunt flumina But not all scripture in his opinion is that Sea onely Propheticall riddles are that Sea beside which diuersa sunt scripturarū fluenta as he addeth diuers streames brooks shallowes and currents be in the scripture Habes quod primū bibas habes quod secundum habes quod postremum Scripture fitted to euery capacity I know no Protestant that wil aske more Saint Hierome is next who out of Bellarmines obseruations could haue afforded vs three places moe and more materiall from whence this mans director tooke his store and rather should he haue taken any testimony then this if he vnderstood the credit of his witnesse For the commentaries vpon the Epistles extant vnder Saint Hicromes name be none of his but are the Collections of Pelagius the Hereticke as not Protestants say but Papists of name and note Catharme Senensis Pererius Bellarmine and Victorius Marianus Such an aduocate we neede not enuie our aduersary Much good may Pelagius the Heretickes testimony doe him But let him passe for Saint Hierome there is not any thing to purpose spoken by him That which he saith is this He had studied the Scriptures much and long had conference with diuers learned men all his time about the sense thereof and had purposely vndertaken a iourney vnto Didymus at Alexandria vt ab eo in scripturis omnibus quae habebam dubia sciscitarer Therefore what First this Didymus at least vnderstood all scripture or how could he resolue all the doubts of scripture what needed Hierome to haue gone so long a iourney vnto him therfore scripture al of it is to be vnderstood Secondly vnto Hierome all scripture was not hard he proposed vnto him the doubts he had which implyeth they were not infinite not all scripture obscure or doubted of therefore thirdly this proueth the Protestant opinion true that the Scriptures are some of them easie enough to be vnderstood Saint August Ep. 119. cap. 21. saith somewhat more For he descendeth vnto Comparison and saith The things of holy scripture which I know not are many moe then those which I know Such was his humility to say so like vnto Saint Paul in the same case who knew nothing and yet your selfe Sir a man of lesse skill then Saint Augustine not to be named the same day with him if you should goe and make a list of the particular verses in the scripture which you vnderstand and of those you vnderstand not I doe not doubt but those would be more then these and yet further these being so he might iustly and truely say so of all almost For of one and the same place there may be moe senses then one yea euen literall senses and intended by the holy Ghost so that knowing one sense perhaps primary and naturall he may be ignorant of the other and thus all Scripture may be hard Saint August opinion was indeed no other then our opinion is as appeareth in Ep. 100. to Volusianus Tanta est Christianarum profunditas literarū c. Such and so great is the depth of Christian scriptures that I might still euery day learne and profit by them informe my selfe of that I know not before if so bee that at most leysure with my vtmost paines and trauell indowed with as good a wit as any man can haue I should set my selfe to learne them and them alone from my very infancy to decrepite age Hitherto Saint August in appearance for the Papist now insueth for the Protestant Not s◠but that the things absolutely necessary to Saluation are compassed with much losse difficulty and vnderstood But when a man hath once resolued his Faith in them without which no man can liue well and godlily those men that will goe forward with greater proficiency shall meete with so many things in such wise shadowed with mysticall meanings so great proofe and depth of wisedome therein couched not onely in the words which set forth the things vnto vs and to our vnderstanding but also in the things vnderstood Insomuch as that auncient students of pregnant wit of vnwearied pains doe find it verrified in themselues here which the same scripture hath in a certaine place Sirac 18. 7. When a man hath done then is he to beginne So truly doth Saint August resolue for either opposite part who haue shared the Truth betwixt them This was the doctrine once euen of
the Roman Church For Saint Gregory vpon the 6. of Ezechiel said If the vnderstanding of holy scripture were playne to all men it would come in time to bee of no reckoning Where hee giueth a reason of that obscurity that is in it Who yet vpon the 6. of Iob more atfull interpreteth his owne meaning thus Sacra scriptura cibus est in locis obscurioribus quia quasi exponendo frangitur et mandendo glutitur Potus vero est in locis apertioribus quià ita sorbetur sicut invenitur The holy Scripture is Meate in the more obscure places because in the expounding thereof it is broken as it were and in chewing swallowed Drinke it is in the more perspicuous places because it is as easily swallowed downe as it is found Thus the doctrine and beliefe of the Roman Church was sometime Scripture in some places is hard in some places easie Hath that Church now forsaken her former faith if not we differ not for we maintaine the easinesse of holy Scripture no otherwise then Saint Gregory the Pope did This Goose may fit the Gagge for his Ganders mouth the Gospell will soone enough be rid of it II. That in matters of faith wee must not relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and of her Pastors but onely vpon the written Word I Know no such tenent exclusiuely I know no such Assertion negatiuely the Church of England hath no such faith as this You set vp a Shawfoule for a marke and shoot your bolt at it your selfe alone In our 11. Article put on your spectacles and see if you can reade it we professe The Church hath authority in controuersies of Faith The written word of God is the Rule of Faith with vs. And hath beene so with all our Fathers of old Vnto the Law and vnto the Prophets was a direction of a perpetuall Morallity and is continued in that of our Sauiour Ioh. 5. Search the Scriptures for in them you hope to haue eternall life A rule absolute in it selfe a rule most sufficient vnto vs for that end entended To make the man of God perfect in euery good worke Sufficiunt sanctae et diuinitus inspiratae scripturae saith Athanasius ad omnem institutionem veritatis Truth is of two sorts amongst men manifest and confessed truth or more obscure and inuolued truth In his quae aperte posita sunt in scripturis inveniâ—ntur illa omnia quae continent fidem moresque viuendi spem scilicet charitatem Plainely deliuered in Scripture are all those poynts which belong vnto Faith and manners Hope and Charity to wit And accordingly I doe know no obscurity vpon these I know none of these controuerted inter partes the Articles of our Creede are confessed on both sides and held plaine enough The controuerted poynts are of a larger and an inferiour alloy of them a man may be ignorant without any danger of his soule at all A man may resolue or oppose this way or that way without perill of perishing for euer Now if a question be moued iuris controuersi in controuerted matters who shall decide and settle the doubt you say The Church and so say I nay so say we You say wee say the Scriptures but without the Church that is each priuate mans opinion and interpretation of the Scriptures euen against the Church No such thing Sir you mistake vs. We say the Church must doe it explaining declaring resoluing the Scriptures as the direction is from God himselfe to purpose Deut. 17. 8. and as your Texts and Fathers doe pretend it and no otherwise And yet the Scripture may well be called iudge As the Law determineth Controuersies betwixt man and man In plaine cases iuris positiui no deciding Iudge or legall proceeding shall neede But such as are iuris ambigui controuersi must be determined by the Court by the Iudge according vnto Law So is it in Scripture according to the Protestants opinion In points of Faith they disclaime not the iudgement of the Church nor yet appeale to Scripture alone vnderstood by themselues without a iudge but referre it vnto the Church And they haue reason for it enough seeing Gods Word and the ancient practise of the Catholike Church that is both Law and Iudge are both for them In the name of the Church of England I will be tried thereby and maintaine it against all Papists liuing Take one for all Cyril of Hierusalem in his fourth Catechisme saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In any poynt concerning the diuine and holy mysteries of our Faith not any the least thing must be tendred without warrant of diuine Scripture And he addeth Belieue mee not that speake and deliuer these things vnto you vnlesse for proofe of them I doe bring plaine and euident demonstration out of diuine Writ Was this man a Protestant or a Papist Those Bibles he had then which we haue now and it seemeth that addressing his owne beliefe and doctrine accordingly varied not in iudgement any whit from vs who make Scripture the rule of our beliefe And in doubtfull poynts that require determination appeale vnto the Catholique Church for iudgement in that Rule This is not contrary to any deduction from much lesse to the expresse words of our owne Bible Matt. 23. 2. The Scribes Pharises sit in Moses Chaire all therfore whatsoeuer they bid you obserue that obserue and doe Therefore c. Doe you finde eyther Faith or Iudgement Pastors or Church expresly named in this text Looke once more and looke back vpon your vndertaking Their refutation by expresse words of their owne bible For words expresse you faile vndertaking more than you can performe an ordinary tricke of Catholike Braggadochioes Let vs see if Consequents will hold the tewghing any better Those that answere the Church and her Pastors in your Thesis are the Scribes Pharises in your proofe who whole and some head and taile be Doctors and Pastors of the Church with you But of the Church of Rome it must be supposed for wee disclaime any Conformation at all with them And doe you suppose that our Sauiour approued them so well as that hee would haue had the Iewes in matters of Faith to relye vpon them and their decisions as Pastors of the Church in points of Faith If this were his meaning what meant he then to giue warning elsewhere Take heede of the leauen of the Pharises that is as the holy Ghost expoundeth it Of their doctrine If the question had bin put Art thou the Christ would he haue sent them vnto the Scribes or Pharises for resolution or aduised the people to belieue on them we finde it not practised the contrary we doe What then is this text in consequence vnto the poynt Surely hee meant no more but this and in that hee will declare himselfe a Protestant Whatsoeuer they bid you obserue out of Moses obserue that is so long as they teach but Scripture they must he heard if there they faile
wee must relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and her Pastors There be moe Pastors in the Church then the Pope though he be granted first he is not all There be moe Churches then his Church what hath Pope Vrban one man to doe with Pastors with the Church but that which wee know well enough by Pastors and Church in conclusion you meane the Pope I could interpret Saint Anselme well enough as that if a Controuersie were referred by the Church or an Heresie to be corrected in the Church which touched the case of the Catholicke Church it could not be put ouer more fitly to any one man by the Church representatiue in a Councel then vnto the Pope first Bishop of Christendome of greatest not absolute power amongst Bishops But I know your Saint Anselme well enough This was not his meaning he was partiall post natus not fit to speake in this cause nor amongst the Fathers A great Bishop I grant him He was Archbishop of Canterbury no great Doctor but respectiuely considering the barbarous times in which hee liued farre from being one of the ancient Fathers or their grand-child He liued in the dayes of King Henry the first and was a factionist for Pope Vrban his good Lord and Master So aske my fellow if I be a thiefe your bottle-ale Hostesse where you vse it seemeth to meete in Partridge alley with your gossips is well enough acquainted with these passages and can tell you as much as Saint Anselme could if an Heretick aske her who is Supreame ale-canner on Earth shee will answer no doubt why who but his holinesse In this case I beleeue them both alike as good reason for one as for other Sure yours are no better then those Corkes with which your Hostesse vseth to stop her bottles but agree as you can you and your Hostesse we proceede to the next Proposition III. That Apostolicall traditions and ancient customes of the holy Catholique Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige vs THis is also contrary to the expresse words of our owne Bibles How wherefore we shal see when we can In the interim thus wee draw on Traditions are of two Sorts in the writings of Antiquity as the word is ambiguous of two significations There are Traditions writteÌ„ improperly so called and there are Traditions vnwritten deliuered from hand to hand The name is sometime applyed to the one and sometime attributed to the other you meane not here Traditions written I know it no more doe we we agree to take it of vnwritten Traditions in opposition vnto Scripture as where Tertullian speaketh in his Book de coronâ militis thus Scripturam nullam invenies Traditio tibi praetenditur euictrix Scripture for this you can finde none the originall came from Tradition Traditions are considered Originally in their Authors Christ the Apostles the Church priuatemen which haue their authority more or lesse answerable to the worth of their Originals Againe they are considered materially in regard of what they treat of what they containe whereof they are of Orders Rights practices opinions in common vse and custome amongst men Traditions instituted by our Sauiour euen in points of beliefe Faith haue Diuine authority as his written word hath Traditions deriued from the Apostles haue equall authority with their Preachings and their writings I approue that processe of the Controuersor The authority of Gods Word is not because it is written but because it commeth from God Traditions of the Church haue such authority as the Church hath all binde and oblige as they were intended and as their extent is For they must be considered not onely from the Author but from the End Some were intended to be Permanent others onely to be transient for a Time onely or else for euer Some vniuersall some onely Partiall for the Catholique or else a priuate Church Such variety and difference is in Traditions which this Hudler confoundeth to deceiue his Nouice with indistinctions Now the question is not whether there be Traditions or haue beene heretofore we doe grant it in euery kinde that either there are or haue beene Traditions of Christ his Apostles the Church priuate men The question is not of what authority they are we grant their authority is from and as the Authors but the question is of their Credit and Extent First whether the pretended Traditions of Christ and his Apostles were indeed so ordained or deriued as they are pretended or rather counterseits and suppositions Proue them true vndoubted and we rise vp vnto them Secondly to what ends they were instituted whether to last and indure euer or for a time whether to supply the defects of Scripture not else sufficient for the end This we denye for it is our Position that the written Word of God without vnwritten Traditions is perfect and absolute and sufficient for the end whereto it was intended To make the man of God absolute in euery good worke Abuse not your selues nor your Proselites here slander not nor belye vs giue vs any Tradition of Christ or his Apostles giue vs good euidence for what you say goe proue it conuincingly to haue come from them by Scripture Fathers consent of Antiquity can you aske any more and we receiue it with both our armes as Gods holy Word and Institution Quae vniuersa tenet Ecclesia ab Apostolis praecepta benè traduntur quanquam scripta non reperiantur Though I finde it not vpon record in Scripture yet I receiue it as proceeding from the Apostles if the vniuersall Church imbrace it said Saint Augustine and I subscribe vnto it bring vs any such Tradition so accepted so receiued so commended and you shall see wee will reuerence it as much as you or more but if you giue me copper in stead of gold pardon me if I beleeue you not nor receiue it for pay Ecclesiasticall constitutions are moe more certaine of the same authority with the Churches written Lawes which binde generally if made for generall obligation or else particularly if they haue but locall and confined limitation omni modo bind they doe vnto obedience so long in such sort so farre forth as the authors did intend till the same authority disaâ—ow them which gaue vnto them being at the first In the 34. Article to this purpose wee reade of and concerning Ecclesiasticall Traditions It is not necessary that Traditions and ceremonies be in all places one or vtterly like for that at all times they haue beene diuers and may be changed according to diuersities of Countries times and mens manners So that nothing be ordained against Gods word Your Catholique cares be they round or long cannot be offended with this position I thinke Whosoeuer through his priuate iudgement willingly and purposely doth openly breake the Traditions and ceremonies of the Church which be not repugnant vnto the word of God and be ordained and approued by common authoritie ought to be rebuked openly that others may
Traditions Act. 16. 4. this is one Act. 15. 29. To abstaine from bloud and strangled Exempt such dishes specified from such dressing haue with you to Masse to Mr. Mayes as I am inuited by Sir A. P◠peraduenture your selfe 2 Tim. 1. 13. We finde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the forme of wholesome words in our Bibles And if this be Traditions vnwritten iudge you good Catholiques and set not so high a price vpon this arrant blunderer then whom a verier Goose neuer handled Goose-quill And so goe see if your leasure will serue Fathers that affirme somewhat not what they should The first you must see if you please is Irenaeus Lib. 3. cap. 4. for he will not trouble your seeing with Clemens Ignatius Dionysius Areopagita Polycarpus Egesippus Iustinus Martyr all elder than Irenaeus and vaunted of by his good masters and no doubt as much to poynt as Irenaeus who yet is held to be resolute and irrefrageable in that place Propter quod oportet deuitare quidem illos quae autem sunt Ecclesiae cum summâ diligentia deligere apprehendere veritatis Traditionem For which cause wee must shun and eschew them but with all possible diligence make choyce of the things belonging to the Church and lay hold vpon the Tradition of truth Which Tradition is no other thing but the rule of our faith The holy Scripture nothing vnwritten vncertaine beside much lesse against Scripture This is somewhat in your opinion but that which is the thing intended indeede is this which followeth in Irenaeus Et si quibus de aliquâ modicâ quaestione disceptatio esset nonne oporteret in antiquissimas recurrere Ecclesias in quibus Apostoli conuersati sunt ab ijs de praesenti quaestione sumere quod certum re liquidum est Thus hee questioneth I answere affirmatiuely yes No doubt we ought for resolution in poynts of doubtfull controuersie relye vpon that decision of the eldest Churches Doe we refuse this triall good Sir Gagger Where you will in what poynt you will I vndertake thus to iustifie the Church of England name you the Controuersie one or moe and maintaine the contrary if you can or dare The question is not with Irenaeus what must be Law but how the Law is to be expounded and interpreted Scripture the Law and Tradition the Interpretation that is the perpetuall praxis of the Church to expound the doubtfull texts of Scripture But Irenaeus proceedeth farther than so it will be said For What if the Apostles had left vs no writing at all Nonne oportet ordinem sequi Traditionis quam tradiderunt ijs quibus committebant Ecclesias Farther indeede but to no purpose this is vpon supposition If it had been so which is not so nor could be so Secondly it followeth not that because if God had not giuen Israei a Law it is probable hee would haue continued his former course with Abraham Isaac and the Patriarchs therefore when he had giuen them his Law they were still to looke for immediate or Angelicall Reuelations as before No more is it consequent to reason pietie or Irenaeus intent that albeit if no Scripture had beene written onely Tradition must haue beene followed therefore Scripture being written wee should as otherwise addresse our selues vnto Tradition But thirdly wee come home to poynt Shew vs any thing tendred by those Ecclesiae antiquissimae to be belieued and obserued and see if wee respect it not as well and as much as you Till you shew vs such Traditions leaue your prating idlely at randome touching worth and weight and vse and authoritie of Traditions Your Traditions tendred in these dayes are onely in name as Simon Magus was and Simon Peter the same no more of credite than hee of pietie both alike Origen is next to be seene in cap. 6. ad Roman Hee calleth Baptisme of Infants a Tradition and let it be so It is the vniuersall iudgement and most ancient practise of the Catholique Church deduced at least from Scripture if not proued in Scripture as the controuersor himselfe confesseth Be it a Tradition it is more for our aduantage than otherwise For we admit receiue defend and practise it which must needes giue the lye vnto your proposition That according to the Doctrine of the Protestants Apostolicall traditions ancient customes of the holy Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige For the World knoweth your brazen face will blush to deny it wee receiue it practise it are obliged by it S. Damascen may stand by vnlesse you meane to make your friends with him a childe in yeares of yesterdayes birth in respect of those old Heroes of the Primitiue times Not that he saith any thing Lib. 4. cap. 17. more than an other or more effectuall and to purpose but because he is not of that desert or esteeme to be ranked with the Fathers of the Primitiue times being long post natus and a Partian many wayes for which cause I answere him not S. Chrysostome is peremptory and through for Traditions In 2. ad Thessal 2. vers 16. he saith Hence it is plaine and apparant that the Apostles deliuered not all in writing but very many things without booke Thus hee but to what end For no Protestant liuing in his right wits will deny this That the Apostles spake much more then is written And whatsoeuer they spake as Apostles in execution of their Ministery is of equall authority with that which they wrote For inke and paper conferre no authoritie or validity beyond the subiect and author of the writing Therefore the Tradition of the Apostles and of the Church is without all question of good credite and esteeme and so much wee professe Art 34. I graunt it hath displeased some which is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is Tradition which auoweth it seeke no further I see no reason why any should be so displeased therewith For if it be a Tradition of the Catholique Church and such Traditions onely hee meaneth Chrysostome saith there no more than hee may No more than Augustine and Tertullian haue said It is Tradition I goe no further No more will◠in any thing for my part I promise you that is controuerted betwixt you and vs at this day Make that appeare which you propose to haue been a Tradition of the Catholique Church and you and I shall soone agree shake hands and no more adoe Saint Basil you haue kept for the close it seemeth and for the vpshot of all and he indeed is in the place remembred very much for all Traditions vnwritten deriued to the Church from the Apostles I know some Protestants especially of preciser cut doe discredit the Author as a Counterfeit onely vpon Erasmus bare word who sauoured some discongruity which I could neuer finde of stile I am not of that or their minde Others being at a stand because of their owne priuate fancies oppose Saint Basil vnto Saint Basil For my part I beleeue
nature of his greatnesse Hic Rhodus hic saltus This is that you should haue expressed out of our Bibles or the Fathers In setting out his greatnesse otherwise you doe but trifle Haue it hee must first and then practise it Happely the execution will bound it out Let vs see how farre Luke 22. 32. And when thou art conuerted strengthen thy Brethren You reade you say confirme In good time reade so still Strengthen and confirme no great ods in either if it be shewed what his greatnesse was and yet strengthen is more than to confirme the Originall is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to stay and hold vp from falling to the purpose and present case of Peter who was to fall and foulely in denying Christ Strengthen or confirme must needes imply execution of greatnesse for to confirme and strengthen what is it but to practise and execute his greatnesse ouer them A poore practise and sorry greatnesse not of soueraigntie to which you driue but of superintendency at most in his Pastorall charge to plant and to water to doe no more It is true He that doth strengthen and confirme is greater than hee that is confirmed but in that act onely of confirming not in vniuersall iurisdiction I hope Your ghostly Father if you were a Potentate and at poynt to dye as his duetie is and office confirmeth you in your Faith Because hee confirmeth you and in that hee confirmeth you hee is your better will you take him for your Lord and Soueraigne therefore Paul strengthened Peter when he went not aright to the Gospel What was then become of Peters headship can your sheepes-head tell To confirme in faith requireth nor implyeth no supremacy in power No other confirmation is intended there Goe cast your Cap then at Peters Primacy from confirming his Brethren See more proofe of your folly Mark 3. 16. Where Saint Peter in the list of the Apostles is onely named first which doth not necessarily inferre hee was the chiefe but wee graunt him a chiefe a prime a first place Wee acknowledge him the greatest amongst the Apostles in many respects And what of this No more but this First you belye vs in your position Secondly you cannot claime your Popes Monarchie from any greatnesse that Saint Peter had Act. 1. 1◠not the 13. Hee speaketh first proposeth a case Will Pope Vrban be contented to doe no more will he callenge no other royalty take it vse it let him goe as farre as euer Saint Peter went as a Bishop and not as an Apostle and wee will goe along with him Therefore in conclusion your texts of Scripture are not to any purpose at all to proue Peters Primacy but you a poppet Much lesse your Fathers see them who list for I haue seene them more times than I haue fingers and toes and could neuer see any such regality in them Theophilact calleth him Prince of the Disciples and so doe I as Aristotle Prince of the Phylosophers and Virgil Prince of Poets who had no commaund for al that either ouer Poets or Phylosophers Eusebius in his Chronicle calleth Saint Peter the first Bishop of Christians Admit hee doe What then First is in respect of time of place order and authoritie Eusebius expresseth not how he meaneth first nay doth hee call him first at all in any sense In my Eusebius I finde no such matter What is in yours I cannot tell I reade but this Petrus Apostolus cum primus Antiochenam Ecclesiam fundasset Romam mittitur vbi Euangelium praedicans xxv annis eiusdem vrbis Episcopus perseuerat Where Romam mittitur is not much for his greatnesse or that principality you giue vnto him and preaching the Gospell is lesse than that Cyril of Hierusalem calleth him Prince and most excellent of the Apostles I adde the Greeke Text is more for your aduantage 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He that standeth before and is head ouer the Apostles And againe in his xi Catech which belike you neuer read no more I guesse did you the other but tooke it vp on credit by reta 〈…〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Peter Prince as you call him of the Apostles a principall Preacher of the Church Titles of honour Quis negat of great honour I adde such as neuer was any like vnto it but honour and aduancement as it is confined so is it designed how farre whereto in what sense He stood first in ranke hee was chiefe among so was Ioab ouer 30. but not King vpon them or Lord ouer them There is an headship which will not reach that illimited power giuen to the Pope Our Lord Vice-God vpon earth Saint Chrysostome hom 55. in Math. neither calleth him Pastor nor head of the Church Some well-willer of the cause added the words In Greeke wee haue but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a man that was a Fisher But admit both Pastor and Caput too what is it to purpose Wee deny no titles giuen vnto him wee deny your inferences vpon those titles If you will thanke me for it I will helpe you to tenne times as many moe titles as you haue collected as transcendant as any of these and when I haue done to as large and ample giuen to Saint Paul Doe you shew mee but one place of any one Father that giueth him that power you challenge to the Pope I except not Leo nor yet Gregorie and I will subscribe viz. for vniuersalitie of iurisdiction infallibilitie of iudgement and power direct or indirect ouer Kings and Kingdomes This is your Helena First chiefe great or greatest will not content you nor satisfie ambition now in the russe Vndertake this trifle not out the time in pleading so idlely and vainely for Saint Peters prerogatiues which wee the Church of England deny not VIII That Saint Peters faith hath failed ANd yet Saint Peter denied Christ Dare you deny that Belike in your opinion and new diuinitie a man may deny Christ and his faith not fayle Turne Turke and his faith not faile onely turne Protestant and his faith faileth But wee must hold it howsoeuer for it is contrary to our owne Bible Luke 22. 3. I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not Your Proselites may know you are an Empostor That propose it in these words so opposite to Scripture and euent That leaue it so suspence without distinction Saint Peters faith fayled after this very prayer and assurance and yet Christ obtained what hee did pray for God heard him euer how can you reconcile this Your Masters consider Saint Peter two wayes euen in this prayer made by our Sauiour for him as a priuate man as a publique person or as they loue to speake Head of the Church As a priuate person Christ did pray for him that though his faith fell totally for a time it yet might not faile eternally and for euer as Iudas failed and fell and hee was heard in that he prayed for Peter denied but repented hee
from all thy sinnes If this be acknowledged the Doctrine of our Communion Booke and practice of our Church accordingly as it is iniurious are those opposites vnto truth and lyers against their owne knowledge that impute it to vs which wee are confessed to deny That none but God can forgiue sinnes This must proceede out of faction or that which is worse But this fellow proceedeth vpon a further extreamity to strengthen a truth in it selfe with a lye made by himselfe that our Doctrine is contrary to our Bibles Matth. 9. 3. 8. To proue against vs that which we deny not viz. this power delegated vnto Priesthood thus you alledge But when the multitude saw it they maruailed and glorified God who had giuen such power vnto men as to forgiue sins Which words As to forgiue sinnes are not in our Bibles out of which you vndertake to proue your Assertion Nor in your owne Bibles follow which you will You haue added them out of your store to serue your owne turne contrary to Scripture and further contrary to sense Because that thing which amazed them then for which they glorified God was a thing sensible visible apprehended of all When they saw it Now see sinnes forgiuen they could not heare it pronounced belieue it they might Secondly the power there giuen is not ordinary as that of absolution is but extraordinary and miraculous to heale the sicke Peter and his Successour had that but very few or none had this You know it was answered a Pope once when he shewed a masse of Gold and Siluer to one and added The Church could not say now Siluer and Gold haue I none No quoth the other Nor can it say Arise and walke This is that power there mentioned could you see it not that of Absolution ordinary That of Ioh. 20. 21. Matth. 16. 19. Giue that power vnto the Apostles to forgiue sinnes But may it not be excepted it was a personall priuiledge I answere not so for I belieue it not The collation was originall to them as to those from whom it was to be conueyed vnto others But some are happely of that opinion and it may seeme probable vnto others you should haue cleared the Texts of that obiection and then your performance had beene to purpose Matth. 16. 19. May be vnderstood you meane of sinnes forgiuen but yet only secondarily for thesi secunda Because we reade in the Euangelist whatsoeuer and not whomsoeuer this place is to be vnderstood of any knot whatsoeuer indeede rather of the power of the sword than of the keyes And it seemeth that if this place be not personall to Peter and his successors as by this allegation for forgiuing it neither is nor can be then our most holy Father hath lost a maine pillar of his Papacy peculiar to Saint Peter and his successours So these Madianites sheath their swords one in anothers sides and crosse themselues in their owne positions In Matth. 18. 18. The Text is so expresse to the purpose that Origen Chrysostome Theophilact and Anastasius vnderstand it of all Christians whomsoeuer that sundry Roman Catholiques if Maldonate deceiue vs not vnderstand it of no more than ciuill policy Goe take it Whatsoeuer you binde on earth shall be bound in Heauen and whatsoeuer you loose in Earth it shall be loosed in Heauen as your selues will for the power and execution of the keyes Wee deny not in any sort that power is giuen vnto mortall men to forgiue sinnes on earth nor to binde by excommunication which is frequently practised and peraduenture too frequently amongst vs. Vnto that 1 Cor. 5. 5. Artic. 33. thus wee subscribe That person who by open denunciation of the Church is rightly cut off from the vnity of the Church and excommunicated ought to be auoyded and to be taken of the whole multitude of the faithfull as an Heathen and a Publican vntill hee be openly reconciled by penance and receiued into the Church by a Iudge that hath authoritie thereunto And in this sort Saint Paul deliuered Hymenaeus and Alexander 1 Timoth. 1. 20. and forgaue the incestuous Corinthian 2 Cor. 2. 10. Which places by your direction wee haue seene and finde the Article agreeing with them As for 2 Cor. 5. 19. It is not to purpose of forgiuing sinnes by delegated authority vnto a Priest but of Reconciling by the whole office and function of the ministry God was in Christ saith the Apostle and reconciled the world vnto himselfe not imputing their sinnes vnto them and hath committed to vs the word of reconciliation So wee haue seene eyther nothing at all to purpose or else that of which wee made no question nor yet doe any at all As little in Fathers that affirme the same Irenaeus Lib. 5. cap. 14. saith the raising of Lazarus from death to life was a Symbole or figure of our Resurrection from Sinne to God Hee saith no more that I can see or finde Ambrose Lib. 1. it should be de paenitent cap. 7. Nor August Tract 49. in Iohn Nor Gregor hom 26. in Euangel if wee may belieue Bellarmine Lib. 3. de paenitent cap. 3. from whom you transcribed these testimonies without considering of these Fathers in their owne workes but so carelessely that if you were a Schoole-Boy lures in corpore for you referre vs to Gregor hom 26. in Euangel Whereas Bellarmine hath it 6. and to Ambrose Lib. de paenitentia as if Saint Ambrose had written but one Booke of that Argument not diuided into Chapters whereas Bellarmine directed you aright to the seauenth Chapter of his 1. Booke Was this securitie stupiditie or insolency in you or what was it XII That wee must not confesse our Sinnes but onely vnto God THat wee must not implyeth a flat negatiue or iniunction rather vnto the contrary Shew mee any such inhibition and I will say which I belieue you neuer will deserue at any Protestants hands you are a true dealing and an honest man Otherwise you are that you are and so will be still The most that hath beene saide is that priuate confession is free not tyed and therefore suus positiui not diuini Therefore happely of conueniency not of absolute necessity That in a priuate Confession vnto a Priest a peculiar enumeration of all Sinnes both of commission and omission with all circumstances and accidents is neuer necessary necessarily most an end not expedient nor yet all things considered required It is confessed that all Priests and none but Priests haue power to forgiue sinnes It is confessed that priuate Confession vnto a Priestâ— is of very ancient practice in the Church of excellent vse and practise being discreetly handled Wee refuse it to none if men require it if neede be to haue it We vrge it and perswade it in extreames Wee require it in case of perplexitie for the quieting of men disturbed and their consciences It hath beene so acknowledged by your fellowes that in the visitation of the sicke it is
so that the man fighteth with his shadow and taketh a ferne bush for a Foxe to hunt As idle in allegation of his Fathers as impertinent in his Texts of Scripture For these places of August Hierome and Ambrose produced by this iugler to be seene are meerely for another matter and so to that end recited by his instructor C. W. B. a man of more learning and better iudgement to proue that all the best workes of the righteous are not sinnes but truly good workes as proceeding out of a good roote That man had this fellow beene but a gagler would haue afforded him Fathers enough from Ignatius along for many ages to purpose as is specified in this point And yet Ignatius wrote in Greeke and could not vnderstand merit and those that wrote in Latine did vse the word but with no such intent as is supposed nor as is put vpon them by these later Tormentors of other mens meaning The Fathers who vse it tooke vp the word as they found it in ordinary vse and custome with men in those times not for to deserue which in our Language implyeth merit ex condigno but to incur to procure to purchase as Tacitus hath it in the life of Agricola Iijs virtutibus iram Caij Caesaris meritus est By these vertues he incurred the anger of Caius Caesar Which vse of the Tongue the inferior Ages mistaking haue built vp I know not what great Towers of Babel vnto themselues in contestation with and presumption against GOD which the ancient Fathers neuer dreamed of whose ioynt vnaminous and orthodoxall Doctrine is that which we will remember in Leoes words Non de qualitate nostrorum operum pendet coelestium mensura donorum In conclusion touching good workes the Church of England considereth them two wayes Artic. 12. 13. First as they are or may be done before Iustification had and obtained done by men meerely naturall and in the state of alienation from God and then as they are done after Regeneration by the inspiration and assistance of Gods Spirit Concerning the first Workes done before the grace of Christ saith Artic. 13. and the inspiration of his Spirit are not pleasing vnto God for as much as they spring not of Faith in Iesus Christ neither doe they make men meet to receiue Grace or as the Schoole Authors say deserue Grace of congruity Yea rather for that they are not done as God hath willed and commanded them to be done we doubt not but they haue the nature of sinne And so our Conclusion is Good workes thus and in this sort merit not at all vnlesse you meane Hell and Gods wrath For good workes done after Iustification which onely and alone are indeed good workes The Church of England in the 12 Artic. concludeth thus 1. They spring from a true and liuely Faith 2. They declare a true and liuely Faith 3. They are pleasing and acceptable to God 4. They cannot put away our sinnes nor endure the seuerity of Gods iudgement to wit not of themselues considered in themselues no not as issuing from their Fountaine Faith because Rem 〈…〉 ssion is in Christ gratuitum and pardon must preceede before that they can succeede Touching their merit and desert here is concluded nothing but the meaning of the Church in the Doctrine of her Schooles is directly this That the workes of Gods Saints in Faith and Charity are rewardable here and in the World to come both in generall as good workes and in particular as such good workes some more some lesse according to measure and proportion it being a rule in Nature and Grace both that whatsoeuer is receiued is receiued as the Donce can receiue it not as the Donor can conferre it Which procuring of reward at Gods hand both for things Temporall and Eternall the phrase of Antiquity hath called merit vpon the vse of the Tongue in those dayes and no otherwise though much mistaken afterward XX. That faith once had cannot be lost THere is no such Conclusion or Article tendred vnto the Church of England or resolued of vnto vs as of Faith Opinions haue varied and may keepe at large each one contenting himselfe with his owne priuate sobeit hee disturbe not the peace of the Church nor impose his priuate iudgement to be held of all It is held by some I grant that iustifying Faith that excellent gift of God is not conferred vnto any but to the Elect and predestinated vnto life The wicked that perish eternally from God as they neuer were in the state of Grace so neuer were they indued with true Faith Secondly as consequent hereunto that Faith once had cannot be lost or shaken out or off wholy from man but continueth inextinguible indefeisable And therfore thirdly those that once haue been indowed with that Transcendent guift are sure to be saued eternally nor cease to be and stand â—ustified before God These are opinions and defended but not of all Protestants not of the Church of England but opposed and refelled at home abroad as this fellow cannot but know if he know any thing in these points which for the maior part are fitter for Schooles then popular discourses and may be held or not held without heresie either way That Faith once had the propounded Conclusion cannot be lost may be interpreted and is moe wayes then one Whether not lost at all whether totally or finally lost Men are diuided in this Tenent Some suppose neither totally nor finally Some totally but not finally Some both totally and finally Which is indeed the assertion of Antiquity and your Schoole Some perceyuing the current of iudgements for the losse thereof totally and finally and considering also at least probability of Scripture consenting put in a new distinction of God and Man of the first and second causes of Faith and Iustification In regard of Man his weakenesse insufficiency and opposition against him in respect of second causes concurring in this action Faith once had may be lost they say But in regard of God considering his counsell and purpose vnchangeable reflecting on his absolute decree irreuersable faith once had cannot totally or finally be lost nor they perish eternally that were endowed therewith Now which of all these waies will you vnderstand the position Faith had may be lost For my part I know your meaning well enough but you should haue explayned it and not haue couertly rested in ambiguities You meane it may be lost totally and finally in regard of God who made no such absolute irreuersable decree as also in respect of second causes in man both without him and about him and against him I determine nothing in this Question positiuely which the Church of England leaueth at libertie vnto vs though the learnedst in the Church of England assent vnto Antiquity in their Tenent which the Protestants of Germany maintaine at this day hauing assented therein vnto the Church of Rome in the Diot at Ralisbone by Bucer and others vpon these
Sabaoth Which very words wee vse in our solemnizing of the holy Communion thus Therefore with Angels and Archangels and the company of Heauen wee laud and magnifie thy glorious name euermore praysing thee and saying Holy holy holy Lord God of hosts Heauen and earth are full of thy glory Glory bee to thee O Lord most high Can this Goose gaggle against this Augustine is next lib. 1. de Serm. Dom. in Monte cap. 5. in whom I finde no such diuision nor any thing to purpose And lib. de doct Christ cap. 7. againe As if there were but one booke there being foure and no such matter in any 7. Chapter Who can brooke such an ignorant or negligent companion in a point of controuersie and imputation Which is also obserued by him in Saint Gregory Saint Gregory is to be seene lib. 1. Moral cap. 28. in which booke there are not so many Chapters nor in the Chapters which are any such thing The truth is that which was meant is lib. 29. Moral vpon the 38. of Iob the same in effect with Saint Ambrose before Esais quoque cùm Laudem Trinitatis aperiret Seraphini voces exprimens ait Sanctus sanctus sanctus ac ne tertiò SanctuÌ„ nominaÌ„s vni â—ateÌ„ diuinae substantiae scindere videretur adtuÌ„xit Dominus Deus Sabaoth which almost word for word is repeated Homil. 16. and not 19. as we find it cited vpon Ezechiel To which hee might haue added Psal 67. Benedicat nobis Deus Deus noster Benedicat nobis Deus and that in Rom. XI For of him and by him and in him are al things to him be praise for euer Amen These are his Fathers that should affirme the same videlicet that it is nor superfluous nor superstitious to repeat one the same prayer oftentimes They repeat nothing they affirm nothing they only speak what was done That which they speake wee doe That which they are supposed to affirme against vs if they did affirme any thing needed not For we affirme vse propose and maintaine the same priuately publiquely in our Liturgie and Seruice of the Church To conclude Sir Gagger bring mee any one Place of Scripture any practice resolued of the Catholicks any decision of the Church representatiue any determination of the Church collectiue in a particular approued Synod any Saying of any one Father of Credit dogmatically resolued for 500. yeeres and better after Christ to the end of the Councell of Chalcedon against any thing established in the Church of England that is in the Communion-booke the booke of Articles the booke of Consecrating Bishops and ordering of Priests and Deacons and I will subscribe Heer is scope enough to ramble in Gagge me if you can As for priuate opinions I am bound to none no not vnto my owne Quisque abundet in sensu suo so be it hee trouble not the Church therewith FINIS Curteous Reader before I presse thee to peruse this treatise haue I pray thee so much patience as to permit me to giue thee my aduice concerning some certaine poâ—nts very necessary for thâ—e the â—ettâ—â— to sâ—me thy selfe thâ—â—of with fruit and pâ—ofit The first point is that in the inscription thereof it doth not tell thee out of which English Bible the alleadged pâ—stages are extracted For as much as this were mecrely in vaine sith that England hath brought forth within these few years past to the number of 20. seueralâ—â—orts of Bibles farre different one from another so that the Protestants haue not all one sort of Bible Notwithstanding know this for certainty that they are faithfully taken forth of the Bâ—â—le in quarto Printed at London by Robert Barker Anno 1615. If any one shall shew vnto thee some other Bible wherein they are not so written word for word as here they are yet rest assured and out of doubt that thou shalt finde theÌ„ written as they are here alleadged at the least in this of Robert Barkers The second point is that thou admire the splendour of Truth and accordingly to stand as stoutly and as immooueably in the maintenance and defence thereof Yet neuerthelesse their condemnation is so expresly set downe in their owne Bibles and is so cleare to all the world that nothing more needs hereto but onely that thou know to reade and haue thy eyes in thy head at the opening of this their booke * This in my mind cannot choose but be an exceeding comfort vnto a Catholike Yea rather a great signe of security and assurance concerning the truth and vprightnesse of his cause in shewing himselfe content to be tried by their owne Bibles The translations whereof doth in a number of places and particularly in those that are now in controuersie swarue and differ notoriously from the Authenticall Latin and that to the incredible disparagement darkning and obscuring of the Catholike verity Neuer did nor neuer dare our aduersaries offer themselues to giue the like aduantage to vs as to be tryed by our own translations The third is that when thou shalt vrge or alleadge any passage in fauour of thine owne faith if any one returne the change be it either in recriminationâ— and blaming of the Roman Church or be it in alleadging some obscure text and ill vnderstood to counterpoint thine Shew c. The fourthis that they reiect some one of the passages which thou producest pretending it to be Apocrypha though it be not true That to preuent this obiection no such scriptures as they call Apocryphall are there produced but still there goe accompanied with them others also that are Canonical But if they shall contend with thee not about the words themselues as being both cleere and Canonicall but about the sense or meaning of theÌ„ know this that for such places as may bee subiect to such cauill thou hast here the warrant and authority of the holy fathers which haue vnderstood these places in the selfe-same sense that Catholickes doe A thing which they can neuer do in their defence And what reason were it then to preferre the priuate interpretation of a Cobler before S. Chrysostome of a Baker before S. Basil of a Tinker before Tertullian and so of others I here protest in the presence of God whom I call vpon in this behalfe Which yet should be to alter the text and to imploy mans wisdome in stead of the word A thing by their owne confession forbidden them they protesting c. Farewell my deare Reader seeing I haue now said all that vnto thee which I desired Gag Contrary to the expresse words of their owne Bible Against Acts 8. 30. c. Against Luk. 24. 15. How then are Scriptures so easie to be vnderstood of the vnlearned when the Disciples themselues vnderstood them not till first they were expounded vnto them See more 2 Pet. 1. 20. Gag See Fathers which affirme the same Iren. lib. 2. cap. 47. Origen lib. 7. cont Celsum Ambr. Ep. 44 ad Constant calleth it a Sea a depth of Propheticall