newe teachers haue possest you mightily you are so carried away with them that they are able to make you beleeue any thing Why tell me the crowe is white or the snowe is blacke S. Good Mother the Lord hath mooued your heart to heare me speake who am yours and of you If I speake amisse as you thinke and so as you cannot consent vnto me with me leaue we it both to the working power of a mighty God who in further time can giue further light and vnderstanding to his children that humbly craue it and are not lifted vp with an high hand to withstand his offered grace Onely according to this motherly loue that you haue began to shew me vouchsafe to here me still vpon what groundes I haue setled my selfe and with what proofe I am mooued to thinke as I doe M. Surely sonne I coulde not abide or indure to heare any other once speake of such a straunge thing as this but say you on what you list you are my childe S. I doe verely beleeue it seemeth most straunge to you and to many moe of your side to heare that your religion is newe and ours olde Yet I doubt not but to make it evidently apparent vnto you and all whosoeuer shall without preiudice duly consider my allegations and proofe But first I must interpret my selfe in a worde or two what I meane by your faith and religion I pray you therefore when I speake of your Romish religion thinke not that I meane the whole doctrine and all the articles of faith and religion taught and professed by the Papists but onely those points of doctrine wherein they differ from vs. For in generall they hold the doctrine of the lawe and tenne commandements as we doe sauing that they leaue out the second commandement which forbiddeth the worshipping of Idols and Images making two of the tenth they professe also the summe of the gospell at least in generalitie and in wordes to wit that Christ Iesus perfect God and perfect man hath wrought our full redemption and by the blood of his crosse and pretious death prrfect obedience hath deliuered vs from eternall death the fierch and euerlasting wrath of God the due desert of our transgressions and purchased for vs euerlasting peace and blisse they maintaine also and professe in wordes as we also doe the three creedes the Nicene the Athanasian and the Apostolike creede wherein is comprised the summe of our faith and the doctrine we professe they acknowledge that most excellent forme and paterne of prayer taught vs in the gospel by our Sauiour and vse it and many other good and godly prayers which we also vse euen all those vvelneere in our common liturgie except a very fevve for our most gratious Queene sauing that they vse theÌ„ in latin vve in english that all may vnderstand and say amen Wherefore vvhen I say that your religion is nevv meane not generally nor of the things before rehearsed but only in respect of certeÌ„ other articles and points of religion maintained by Romish catholikes as namely 1. that the traditioÌ„s of the church are of equall authority vviâ—h the vvorde of god to be embraced with like reuerence and deuotion 2. that the vulgar latin translation commonly called Hieromes is onely authenticall 3. that the imputation of Christs righteousnes and obedience to the faithfull is a fantasie without ground in Gods word 4. that the bread in the sacrament of the Eucharist transubstantiated into the body of Christ is to be adored 5. that the faithfull are able to keepe the whole lawe of God 6. that the Pope is Christs generall vicar vpon earth hauing absolute power to ratifie or disanull all manner of decrees and ordinances and to dispense with the expresse and moral precepts of God at his pleasure 7. That the whole Church without him can neither enact nor infringe any lawe ecclesiasticall nor interpret any scripture 8. that the holy scriptures ought not to be translated into any vulgar tongue or reade of the lay people 9. that the sacrament of the Lords supper is to be administred onely in bread and not in wine Quia sapor possit generate suspitionem quòd esset ibi â—inum least as the Sorbonists at Paris say the people should smell it to be wine and so doubt of transubstaÌ„tiatioÌ„ 10. that good works are meritorious and that by them we are iustified in the sight of God 11. that the soules of the faithfull dying before perfect repentance suffer the torments of purgatory 12. that prayers are to be made in an vnknowen tongue such like of al which and the rest wherein they disagree from vs I say they are newe and yesterday opinions in comparison of the faith which we hold consonant to the holy scriptures and those famous ancient creeds before mentioned And therefore now to proceede to the declaration of that which I haue vndertaken touching the noueltie of your faith Thus good Mother haue our men written at this day teach that it goeth not with Religion as it doth with the statutes of the realme iudgements at common law where the later is thought to be the better but in religion the first and eldest is best Therefore they euer remember that golden saying of Tertullian that is true which was first that is first which was from the beginning and that was from the beginning which was deliuered by the Apostles but our faith is that was deliuered by the Apostles yours is not therfore ours is froÌ„ the beginning and so first yours not and therefore later Now that ours is that which was deliuered by the Apostles they prooue it thus Another ancient father saith That which the Apostles preached and deliuered to the world by preaching Irenaeus they afterward by the will of God committed to writing that for euer it might be the foundation and ground of faith Wherevpon it followeth that which the Apostles preached is the old auncient Catholike and Apostolike saith but that which they haue written is that which they preached so saith this father therfore that which is written is the true auncient Catholike and Apostolike faith that is ours For as I haue saide we hold nothing as necessarie to salvation but that which is truly taught vs out of these written scriptures Therefore our faith is that which was deliuered by the Apostles your faith is not that which is written For your men wil not be tried by the scriptures onely as knowing that many things they hold haue no warrant there but haue deuised vnwritten traditions therefore yours is not that which was deliueeed by the Apostles and not the old faith but a late newe faith devised by men M VVhy that which was deliuered by tradition Tradition was deliuered by the Apostles as wel as that which they wrot S. True Mother if it could as soundly appeare vnto vs what they deliuered as it doth by their writings what they preached But
safetie before others but the Lord knoweth whose trueth is with vs that there is no cause And whatsoeuer by the power of all popish learning hath beene alleadged as any cause we haue answered soundly out of Gods booke our answeres standing without reply vnto this day Our seruice theeefore is lawfull our praiers are holy our meetings are Christian and no better way to be resolued hereof then part by part to examine them So haue some done and beene reformed wondering howe so great slaunders could be raised where no cause is found The authoritie also of lawefull gouernment commaundeth but lawefull things increaseth the dutie to obey and presseth with no smaller weight then damnation as the Apostle flattely affirmeth if we resist Rom. 1â— Conceits may not take place where such euidence of trueth doth gainsay them If I had a conceit or perswasion that all meates would kill me must I certainely die for want of meate and retaine my errour The Galatians prescribed themselues amisse in some things and the Apostle thought it a reason sufficient to reforme them to tell them that such a perswasion was not the perswasion of him that called them meaning of God Gal. 5.8 And the scriptures phrase in the matter of perswasion is to adde through the Lord. Rom. 14.24 2. Thes 3.4 I am persvvaded through the Lord which is worthie noting Deare Mother the Lords annointed ouer you her sacred Maiestie commandeth this dutie and there is no deuill of hell can prooue this charge vnlawefull Therefore by the bonde of a subiect true and faithfull you ought to obey My father with sighes and groanes of a troubled heart desireth it and therefore by the bonde of a wife louing and dutifull you ought to obey And which is the greatest of all the God that made you coÌ„mandeth it to you and all his seruants therfore by the bonde of a childe of God you ought to obey The bondes are great the duty is holy the obedience is euerlasting peace comfort life the danger also is great to striue to offend And therefore happie is that heart that yeeldeth betimes If by reading their bookes this wound hath beene giuen you then reade our answeres and let God heale They haue written no matter of moment these 40. yeares in our english tongue but fully and soundly is it answered to Gods glorie Yea their new testament wherein is their whole strength heaped togither is learnedly answered to the full contentment of any not desperatly giuen ouer to his owne blindnesse In matter of lawe concerning the goodes of this world you will heare contrarie opinions and choose with iudgemeÌ„t In matter of phisicke concerning your bodie you will doe the like beat out a trueth Shall onely the soule be neglected and pinned on other mens sleeues ô God forbidde He hath promised that neuer deceiued eueÌ„ in this matter also Aske and you shall haue seeke and you shall finde knocke and it shall be opened vnto you Thus shall we finde their great wickednesse in denying the scriptures to be read of them that haue soules to be saued as well as themselues their taking away the cuppe from the lay people when Christs institution was Drinke ye all of this their leauing the second commandement out of their catechismes because it forbid deth Images their multitude of bodily exercises when the scripture saith they profit little their killing of princes when the Lord saith Touch not mine annointed and Dauids heart smote him for cutting off but the lappe of Sauls garment and to no worse ende then to make him see his innocency and his guardes negligence their freeing of subiects from their obedience and alliegance when it is written Let euery soule be subiect c. Their direct crossings of the written worde as when it is saide No man commeth to the father but by me they say we haue many mediatours by whome we may come to the father besides Christ when it is said Thou shalt not commit adultery they say if not chastly yet charily and find in one fish ponde of Gregory 6000 childrens skulls by that wicked charynes wheÌ„ the Lord saith You erre because you knowne not the scriptures they say directly contrarie you will erre if you meddle with the scriptures when the Lord saieth when you haue done all say you are vnprofitable seruants they say we may doe workes of supererogation more then we are bound and so merit for others Also when the Lord forbiddeth a lusting looke their Pope giueth licence not onely to erect a stews wherein not long since were nuÌ„bred 40000. harlots that paid a yeerely rent and vpon the 12 day at night were seene goe into the Popes pallace 17. coaches full of curtizans But ô horrible euen â—o practise the sinne against nature and not to be named during the 3. hotte moneths in the yeare Iune Iuly August Al which with many moe may giue any Christian man or woman not finally forsaken of God and left to a reprobate mind a true tast of that Cursed religion and cause them iustly to reason thus Popery maintaineth flat Idolatrie diuers waies therefore not true It alloweth other grosse sinnes forbidden of God therefore not true It nuzleth the hart of man in securitie therefore not true It robbeth the conscience of comfort and hope by maintaining doubting therefore not true It destroieth the ordinance of God lawfull magistracy and loyall obedieÌ„ce therefore not true It flieth the light and nourisheth darkenesse therefore not true It spreadeth it selfe and groweth by lies false testimonies slaunders dreames reuelations counterfeit holinesse and fained miracles therefore not true Deare Mother open your eies and regard your soule Be as you should be wise without wilfulnesse zealous without superstition discreet to discerne carefull to beware regarding God prince and countrie before any spirituall enchaunters whatsoeuer yea regarding your selfe and my deare father with vs your poore children who rise and fall with your well and ill doing I am no enemie that begge this of you but euen your owne bowells who haue liued in you and neuer desire to liue without you your child your own by God and nature bound vnto you O Mother behold my teares thinke of my heart prostrate before you vpon my face I beg it for his sake who gaue me to you whose loue is life whose trueth is ioy whose power and goodnesse is infinit to honour them that honour him Mine eies behold you for some worde of comfort cast me not away for Iesus sake without it M. Deare child arise let my silence now content thee It shall not be long ere we talke again Your father coÌ„meth towards vs whome I pray you goe meere and let him not knowe as yet of our speech When he was turned froÌ„ her towards his father shee caught the house vpon her and into her closet shee went with hast where all bewashing her selfe with teares shee brake out in this sort O my God and gratious father thou hast raised out of mine owne bodie a teacher for me that I might not scorne him and who by me receiued life concerning his bodie he by thee hath offred me life concerning my soule if I will receiue it I cannot I cannot denie his reasons I feele them coÌ„uince me I haue no excuse against such trueth and such a teacher but I am caught I am caught ô my God if I will not damnably breake out of thy net againe and runne desperatly headlong vpon mine owne destruction VVo is me that I so long haue erred from thy trueth harkning to the vaine inventions of mans braine Thy word I knowe is trueth and why should not I ground my selfe and soule vpon it Thy worde I heare is able to make me wise vnto saluation and so can no writing of man To the lavv and â—o the testimonie saith thy Prophet I nowe remember and if they speake not according to this it is because there is no light in theÌ„ VVho hath grounded vpon this rocke and hath miscarried yet my soule knoweth how popery abhorreth this lantarne we may not read it we may not goe to Church to heare it we may not haue it translated for vs but darknes darknes that is stil the mother of devotion though the holy ghost hath said Search the scriptures and be not children in vnderstanding Howe can this then be the true religion the truth the light that forbiddeth al meanes of knowledge They binde and burn I cannot denie the Saints of God bathe themselues in innoceÌ„t blood All is hypocrisie and vain glorie I see I see that ruleth amongst them O father strengthen me ô Sauiour pittie me ô holy ghost confirme me and finish this worke begunne in me to the eternall praise of thy name and the profitable mouing of others by my example that are abused and deceiued by these craftie iuglers and deceitfull workers as I was Amen Amen FINIS
Tit. S. Hierome considering well the place before named in the Acts saieth Quod magis mirum sit c. And that wee may the more maruaile we may once againe read this place of the Acts of the Apostles where wee finde that the Christian and Ecclesiastical discipline was euen then of wicked meÌ„ called Heresie Many others haue witnessed as much therefore since it is no new thing but the very custome of Satan euer I trust you see there is great cause not to be carried away with mens speaches whose eies be blinded by the god of this worlde but with true and sound proofes If they cannot shew that we haue fallen away from Christ nor from his Apostles nor from the prophets if we beleeue as surely we doe all that is written in them maintain nothing as necessarie to salvation but what may be plainely shewed to be taught vs by them how iniurious and shamfull yea fearefull a dealing it is neuerthelesse to call vs Heretiques good mother consider in your selfe Me thinkes in this place S. Austens speech somtimes to Petilian the Donatist is good who said thus contra Petil. 2. cap. 85. Vtrum nos schismatici sumus an vos nec ego nec tu sed Christus interrogetur vt indicet Ecclesiam suam Whether of vs be scismatiques or heretiques aske not of either of vs but let Christ be asked for vs both that he may shewe vs his owne Church that is let the scriptures bee searched and let them declare the trueth which they will doe M. Sonne for your first point that it is not safe to iudge of things by names because Gods truth hath bin called heresy as you haue shewed and I see it plainely I ioyne with you and take it for a good caveat hereafter to beware but for your second point that therefore you should not be counted heretiques because you say you holde nothing disagreeable to the scriprures I cannot approoue it because heretiques as I haue heard at al times haue boasted of scripture as you doe S. Good mother I am very glad you perceiue how truth hath bene slandered with the name of heresie Scripture and therefore how fit it is in matters of salvation not to be mooued by speches of men but euer to search seeke for due true proofe and for the second point I trust God shall make you see it also if it please you to goe along with me True it is which you say you haue heard that heretiques alleadge scripture and you knowe that the diuell himselfe who is as bad as any heretique 〈◊〉 4. alleadged scriptures but what then is not it therfore a safe way to cleaue to the scriptures and only vpon them to ground our faith yes surely which shall appeare euen by this practise of Satan being duly considered for such is the skill of that old subtill serpent that as he knoweth to fitte his temptations to the humour and disposition of them whome he tempteth so he vseth to set vpon men by those perswasions which he is most likely to seduce them by as to Eve in paradice he promised the knowledge of good and euill 〈◊〉 3. â—â—od 7. 〈◊〉 Chron. 18.11 to obstinate Pharaoh he presented lying wonders to wicked Ahab delighting in lies he came in the month and consent of many false prophets to the superstitious and hypocriticall Iewes he pretended the temple of the Lord â—er 7.4 â—ct 19.27 17. â—â— to the populous ancient heathen vniuersalitie and antiquity to our Sauiour the written word of God which he thought if any thing would preuaile with him So the diuell in alleadging onely scripture against our Sauiour turneth himselfe into an angell of light and would seeme to doe that which is most holy in it selfe most acceptable vnto god most comfortable to men most sure for their safegard and protection which doth not diâ—credit the triall of truth in points of faith by scripture only but rather countenance and confirme it because it argueth the disposition and setled affection of our blessed Sauiour towards these sacred writings that he made them the tower of his defence the rocke of his safegarde the foundation of his whole obedience accounted nothing a ground of faith and dutie but onely scripture and therefore that we likewise should cleaue fast to the written word of God turning neither to the right nor left hand but walking constantly in the obedience thereof Wherefore though this alleadging of scripture be a worke of darknesse both because he did misâ—alleadge it leaving out a principall part of the sentence and so corrupting it and also for that he did it as a lying spirit to deceiue Yet to alledge the scripture rightly with an vpright minde to a good ende shall euer be as the dutie of Gods people so the shield and buckler of their defence yea the crowne and glorie of the children of light whereby they shall resemble their head our blessed Saviour Christ Iesus who as you may see in the gospel gaue not ouer his holde because the deuill abused it but with scripture againe he answered him and so both iustified himselfe and confounded his aduersary which also hath beene the manner good mother of the church of God at all times As namely at the first most holy and vncorrupt Councell helde at Hierusalem by the Apostles themselues 〈◊〉 15. where the question debated was whether the beleeuing Gentiles could be saued onely by faith in Christ Iesus without circumcision and the obseruation of the lawe of Moses as Paul and Barnabas affirmed and preached against certaine who came from Iudea and taught the contrary For the deciding whereof in that most catholike and orthodoxall Councel S. Peter alleadged the testimony of God himselfe who sent him to the Gentiles Cornelius and his friendes to preach vnto them not the lawe of Moses but the word of the gospel that they might beleeue and blessed his ministerie with happy successe giuing vnto them the holy ghost and purifying their hearts by saith which he calleth Gods testimony God saith he bare witnesse vnto them giuing them the holy ghost c 〈◊〉 8. â— And S. Iames in his sentence alleadged the written word of God both to confirme that which S. Peter had deliuered and to ende the controuersie 〈◊〉 14. Symeon saith he hath declared howe god first visited the Gentiles tooke of them a people vnto his name and to this agree the wordes of the Prophets as it is written c. Likewise at the famous Counsell of Nice the worthy Emperour Constantine whome god raised vp to ende the persecutions of his Church and to giue it rest saide thus to the bishops assembled there Theod. lib. 1. cap. 7. Evangelicae Apostolicae literae c. the writings of the Evangelists and Apostles and the sayings of the olds Prophets doe clearely instruct vs what iudgement we ought to haue of the meaning and will of God Therefore laying
God himselfe were hidde from so great a Prophet why may we not thinke that in the many mightie nations of Christendome there haue indeede beene many thousands more belonging to God then the eie of any man could discerne S. Augustin saith Aliquando in sola domo Noah Ecclesia erat â—â—l 128. in solo Lot domo eius Ecclesia erat in solo Enoch Ecclesia erat Sometimes the Church was onely in Noah his house sometime in Abraham alone sometime in Lot alone and his house sometime onely in Enoch Therefore neither a particular church is euer so visible as papists would make it wheÌ„ it lieth hidden sometimes in one house sometimes in one man Assuredly S. Augustin was farre from that opinion when he wrot thus â—nit Eccl. c3 c. 16. asch c. 14. Looke therefore howe Christ was knowen when he was vpon earth so is his Church namely by the worde not by the outwarde Pompe and shewe Shee cannot be hidde from those that still diligently seeke her in the scriptures where onely I say againe the certaine knowledge of her is to be found â—al 10. Neuerthelesse shee is compared by S. Augustin and many more to the moone which is often hidde and he acknowledgeth that shee may be so secret that the members know not one another Persecutions haue bin so great that the world sawe not for a long time together such an outward shewe â—â—g de bapâ—â— cont Doâ— l. 6. c. 4. as Popery speaketh of Dioclesian and Maximinian boasted that they had vtterly abolished the superstition of Christ as they call it and name of Christians The like diuelish boasting made Nero in his time where was then this visible face of the Church so glorious that notable place of the Apostle what shall we say to it They were tried by mockings Heb. 11.36 c. and scourgings yea moreouer by boÌ„des and imprisonment they were stoned they were hewen a sunder they were tempted they were slaine with the sword they wandred vp and downe in sheepe skinnes and in goat skins beeing destitute afflicted and tormented whoÌ„e the world was not worthy of they wandred in wildernesses and mountaines and dennes caues of the earth Were not these the childreÌ„ of God were not these the Church what outward pompe had these men in the worlde to mooue others ledde by such inducements to resort vnto them O folly therefore to dreame of any such thing Howe differeth it from that errour of the disciples exspecting an earthly kingdome of their master and worldly preferments for themselues That vision of the woman forced to flie into the wildernesse to avoide the rage of antichrist Apoc. 1â— doth it not convince my conscience that the Church is hidde sometimes from mens eies Howe can that Church be saide to flie into the wildernesse which hath alwaies a visible face a visible place a visible grace and glorie a great companie of fauourers might power authority c. were not Christ and his followers on earth the Church had they any such shewe Nay they were poore base and not regarded in comparison of the Scribes Pharisees high priests and that rabble You shall be hated of all men for my sake c saith our Sauiour of his Church and is this to be visible euer in the world in manner and forme now often mentioned who seeth not that it is farre from it And thus I hope I haue sufficiently cleared this first point that the Church is not alwaies visible as they meane visible which may suffice for answer to this vaine obiection of theirs as vtterly ouerthrowing the ground thereof yet I answere further first to their Church that no Romish Catholicke liuing and I pray you consider well what I say shall euer be able to prooue that there was any visible Church for fiue or sixe hundred yeares after Christ which maintained all or the cheife points of popery wherein they differ from vs. Then for our Church we truely affirme that it was long before Luther euen in the primitiue Church For we stand vpon this that we embrace and professe onely that doctrine which springeth as the water of life out of the sanctuarie that is out of the writings of the prophets and Apostles and therefore that our Church doth not differ saue that in degree of excellency from those famous churches planted and watered by the Apostles themselues which shall yet more manifestly appeare by the doctrine it selfe duly considered the main points whereof as hath been already touched in another place are these 1. Concerning the morall lawe of God comprised in tenne precepts that it is the perfect rule of righteousnes wherein we see as in a Christall glasse both what we should doe and what we doe not and howe farre short we are of that obedience which is required at our handes by god 2. The doctrine of repentance that finding of our selues transgressoures of Gods diuine lawe and guiltie of his wrath wee should in due humilitie and contrition of heart throwe downe our selues at the throne of his grace and in the anguish of our soules confesse our iniquities and rebellions against our selues and euerie man say with the poore Publican God be mercifull to me a sinner 3. The doctrine of faith that trauelling thus and groaning vnder the burden of our sinnes wee should goe vnto our Sauiour for ease comfort and refreshing that is that we should steadfastly beleeue that he died for our sinnes and rose againe for our iustification and eternall saluation â—om 4. 4. the doctrine of good workes and a godly life that we ought euer to bee carefull to abound in good workes and haue our conuersation in heauen 5. The doctrine of praier that we should in all our necessities call vpon God in the name of his sonne as our blessed Sauiour hath taught vs in the Gospell â—â—t 3. â—al 3. and especially that we should frequent the house of God by publike praier to speake vnto him and by his word to heare him speak vnto vs for instruction 6. The doctrine of the Sacraments Baptisme and the Lords supper 7. Lastly the twelve articles of our creede I beleeue in God c. These are the pillars and foundation of our religion yea the very soule and life of our Church and all of them founded grounded vpon the rocke Iesus Christ and his sacred word and without controuersie the very essence and beeing of all Churches that haue been euer or shall be to the ende of the world Wherefore when our aduersaries ask vs as they doe very often where was your church before Luther we may well answere as our Sauiour did in the Gospell by another question videlicet These points of doctrine before mentioned were they before Luthers time or no If they will ansvvere vs to this we vvill ansvver them yea they shall be forced to ansvver themselues that this doctrine is of god and from heauen and that there neuer vvanted some to professe
it publikly in all partes or the most of Christendome since the happy time of our blessed Sauiour and therefore that our Church hath alvvaies bin a visible state though not so stately as they boast of theirs to their ovvne shame if Saint Augustin may be iudge vvho calleth Rome in regard of this pompe and pride the Western Babylon the second Babylon another Babylon de cinit d 16. c. 17. l. 1 22.27 the daughter of the former Babylon the earthly citie Yet for their further satisfaction I further aske of them doe not they thēselues say they beleeue all these former points doe they not stand vpon it that they haue euer so professed Is there any thing in there religion of more moment and vveight or any other part of doctrine besides these absolutely necessarie to saluation vvhy then doe they aske vs vvhere and by vvhome this religion of ours vvas professed before Luthers time May vve not vvell and charitably affirme that it vvas professed in Fraunce Spaine and Italy yea in Rome euer since first Rome embraced the gospell preached by the Apostles Doubtlesse I am persvvaded that many thousands euen nowe in these countries where the popes keyes preuaile doe truely hold the 12. articles of the Apostles creede and Athanasius his creede which he calleth the Catholike faith with all the other points of doctrine set down before which if they doe holding the foūdation though they build vpon it woode hay 〈◊〉 3. or stubble that is some erroneous doctrine yet they are the true Church of God and shall be saued A pearle is a pearle though in an heape of dust wine is wine though mingled with water and wheate is wheate though couered with much chaffe and is not the mysterie of godlinesse whereof Paul speaketh god manifested in the flesh 〈◊〉 3. iustified in the spirit seene of Angels preached vnto the Gentils beleeued on in the world receiued vp in glorie still the mysterie of godlinesse and that trueth and sure foundation whereō the house of god is builded though matter vnsutable vnto it be laide vpon it yes verely And therefore seing the Church of Rome hath euer held the misterie of godlinesse though mingled with many dregs of mens inuentions I doubt not but God hath euer had a people amongst them and a true Church more then 7000. which haue not bowed the knee vnto Baal what we are to thinke of their leaders and teachers which indeed haue corrupted this doctrine with their owne leauen and endeauoured by all meanes to shut vp and obscure this mysterie is another question especially for those that haue done it wilfully and malitiously and died in that malice But of the rest thus we iudge and thus we answere that so many as truely holde and professe all the former articles of doctrine as I assure my selfe many doe are fellowe members with vs in the same mysticalll bodie whereof Christ is the head And therefore our church hath euer beene in theirs though not euer so manifest to the eye of the worlde as it was for the space of the first fiue hundred yeares Me thinkes this answere should well content them and fully satisfie them being so charitable towards them But to giue them an answere of their owne and by themselues to let them see that the true Church is not alwaies so visible as they pretende They knowe that nowe in England they haue not authoritie to countenance their religion and Church and yet they say that they haue a Church amongest vs and where they dare well say it they are bold to say it is a great one yea the greter part though I trust they shall neuer prooue it in that number Why then in persecution and when the Lord punisheth the vnthankefulnesse of men with taking awaie our publike and autorised assemblies may not we as well haue a church holding the true faith of Christ according to his word as they now a flocke cleauing to the Bishop of Rome M. Rome hath alwaies beene called the Mother Church and they doe ioyne with that Rome is not he mother Church S. Howe can Rome be the mother church when shee is later then those first churches of Hierusalem and Antioche Can a mother be yonger then her daughters or her daughters elder then their mother The very scriptures teach vs that all churches and euen Rome it selfe haue risen out of the Churche of Hierusalem Fou out of Sion shall his lavve come and the word from Hierusalem M. You answer me well that Rome cannot be the mother Church of al because other churches haue beene before her Neuertheles of this Church of England shee is rightly the mother because this land receiued the faith frō her first by Eleutherius the Pope and martir who sent Daminianus and Fugatius to teach it to the Britanes at the request of their king who was then Lucius and after by Gregory the great who sent Augustine and Melitus with other holy priests to teach our auncestours the english who then were planted here and had remooued the Brittaines into an other corner S. Deare mother all this you are taught and told by them who abuse gods people bought with his pretious blood But it hath beene answered truely that this can not be so For first Eleuth confesseth in his answer to king Lucius his message that he had the scriptures wherin were the lawes of God farre more to be regarded then the Romane lawes he praiseth his zeale and telleth him that out of the scriptures with the aduise of his counsell he might draw conuenient lawes for his kingdome he beeing in his owne land Christs vicar c. Howe then was Eleutherius his first Apostle Againe doth not Nicephorus plainely saie in his story Simō Zelotes doctrinam Evangelij ad occidentalium Oceanum in sulasque Brittanicas perfert Lib. 2. c. 40 Simon Zelotes carried the doctrine of the gospell vnto the west Ocean sea and vnto the Islandes of Britraine This was before Eleutherius Doe not others write that Ioseph of Arimathea did it hat S. Paul in his passage this way into Spain did it and alleadge authors for it Might not the Greekes doe it or some others since euidently it appeareth by Eleutherius his own cōfession he was not the first Then for Augustine and the rest doe not these plaine testimonies of the fathers vsually alleadged to this end satisfie any man liuing not way warde that this land had the faith before him and them Tertullian liued about the yeare of our Lord 210. And his words are these Brittannorum in accessa Romanis loc a subduntur Christo 〈◊〉 Iudaeos The countries of Britane which the Romanes coulde never attaine vnto are now subiect to Christ Origen about the yeare 212 writeth Ezech. hom Terra Brittanniae in religionem Christi consensit The land of Britane hath yeelded to Christ his religion ◠Apolog. 2. Athanasius about the yeare three hundred thirtie foure hath the like