came also thither And seeking the fauâ—â— of his frinds in a certain cause of his owâ— at length he coÌ„meth to Cardinal Martin Yea sayth he Decepisti me Nesciebâ—tibi imminere negotiuÌ„ tolle equuÌ„ tuuÌ„â— ecce in stabulo est you haue deceued me I knew not ye had any sute in haÌ„d Take your horse to you loe yonder he is in the stable This is one and he I truste no deceauer or Pilate An other Cardinal Gauâ—rid is Gaudfridus Bishope of Cartres which many yeres together was at his own charges Embassadour and legat froÌ„ the Pope in the costs of Gascoigne Of whoÌ„ he telleth that ther was a sturgeoÌ„ brought vnto him by a certain priest but I wil not take him sayd the Cardinall except I pay for him Againe a Ladie of the towne where he lodged brought vnto him for deuotioÌ„ and good wil three treen disshes with a towel he behâ—ld theÌ„ he praised theÌ„ but in any case he would not take them And at both these tymes S. Bernard was present And saieth herevpoÌ„ vnto Eugenius O that we might haue store of such meÌ„ geueÌ„ vnto vs as thes were whoÌ„ I brefly haue spokeÌ„ of If therefore the Pope him selfe was good and some Cardinalles and Bishopes were holie men how can you withoâ— impudencie drawe S. Bernard to such 〈◊〉 sense as thoughe he should condemâ—â— the whole See and Church of Romeâ— And if as I saied before you thinke him not to speake generally what helpeth it your cause in departing from the Church to proue that some Prelates be Pilats Secondly I might wel and truely say that S. Bernard speaketh against the maners of the Court of Rome and not against the faith of the Church of Rome And though he should name the Pope for his euill behauiour which he doth not a Pilate yet concerning his Authoritie and office he geueth vnto him all the titles of excellencie that are found in the Scriptures from Abel to Christ. Affirming besides him to be the shepheard not only of shâ—pe but of all other Shepheardes also â–ª and Others to haue bene called to take parte of the cure but hym to haue fulnes of power with other such wordes more of like sense Thirdly I aunswere he neuer spake so vnreuerentlie of the Pope in all hys workes And that the testimony which you alleage is not in the bookes ad Eugenium The old Father Epiphanius saieth Apolog. it is an horrible wickednes Epiph. and a sinne not to be suffred Haere 61. for any man to set vp any picture of Christ him selfe See how these felowes caÌ„ amplifie and â—et furth a lie Confut. â—35 Epiphanius they thinke â—aketh for theÌ„ and therfore they dresse â—im in their own colours Ye find not in hiÌ„â—either these greauous and mightie terâ—es horrible wickednes and Synne â—ot to be suffred Neither these precise â—onclusions that any man shal not set â—p anie picture Neither this aggrauaâ—ing additioÌ„ of Christ him self He speaâ—eth quietly and he speaketh not geneâ—ally but against a certaine kind of Imaâ—es or honor done to them as appeareth by the words istiusmodi vela such kinâ— of veiles And he prescribeth nothinâ— against the Image of our Sauiour Christâ— If ye wil not leaue this place but proâ—â— that it maketh against Images Pluckâ—â— out first these lies and repaire the testimonie making it neither better neither worse then Epiphanius doth permit you and then shal you be otherwise answered The old fathers Origen Chriysosâ—â— exhort yâ— people to reade the scriptures Apolog. to bye them bookes to reason at home betwixt theÌ„selues of diuine maters wiâ—es with their husbaÌ„ds parents with their childreÌ„ These men condeÌ„ne yâ— scriptures as deade â—lemeÌ„ts And as much as eueâ— they may barre the people from them Ye ioyne these two Fathers togeather as though they both confirmed your lyes Confut. 236. But Origene neither speaketh of byeing bookes Ho. 9. in Leuit ca. â—16 nsither of reasoning at home 〈◊〉 the scriptures but of comiÌ„g to church aÌ„â— heariÌ„g the scriptures and of thinking afterwardes at home vpon the keping of them in mynde and folâ—wing them Then as concerning S. Chrysostome he speaketh agaynst suche as neglected the reading of Scriptures and thought this to he a sufficient excuse for them that they were no Monkes Ho. 2. in Matth. as who shuld saâ—e we haue wife children and household with other things besides to thinke vpon and therefore it is not our vocation to looke in the lawe of God and by that to amende our liues He speaketh likewise against other which loued to haue faier and trym books of the Gospel for ostentation sake not to reade them and profit by them Of which sort ther may be found at this preseÌ„t som in the world which liuing loosly and regarding their soules health slenderly cary yet the testameÌ„t or some parte thereof bouÌ„d vp in goldeÌ„ forel and hang it about their necks like a Iewel But as for the biyng of Scriptures he spaketh it by occasioÌ„ oÌ„ly in reprouiÌ„g such as had books in their cupbords aÌ„d no vnderstaÌ„ding or sense of them in their mind For after he had saied Hom. 3â— in loan This hauing of bookes coÌ„meth of the Iewish ambition and craking vnto whom the coÌ„maundementes were geuen in letters and vnto vs not so but in the tables of our hart which are of fleash least he shuld sem to derogate somwhat hereby vnto the written Scriptures he addeth yet I do not forbid it to gette books yea rather I pray you most ernestly get them but so that we maie repere often in our minde both the letters and sence the of them He was not therefore so careful of it that euery man shoulde bye the scripture but this he studied for that euery man should be diligeÌ„t in bearing away of the scriptures readen â–ª or preached in the open church Proue ye now that S. Chrysostome exhorted all and singular of his people to bye them bookes especially in the vulgar tounge And iudge ye whether he had so little discretion to moâ—e al therevnto which verie few could bring to passe the raritie and pryce of the written bookes being considered Nowe as concerning the other lie that wiues at home with theyr husbandes or children with theyr parentes should reason betwixt themselues of diuine maters either I vnderstand not your englishe or els ye abuse S. Chrysostom most shamefully For if ye meane that al that reasoniÌ„g which you imagin signifieth no more but that the father shuld instruct his sonne aÌ„d the wife geue eare to her husbandes good counsel then surely you must pardoÌ„ me I neuer vnderstood this much before that reasoning of diuine maters should haue so litle question in it But if reasoning betwixt parties doth importe an argueing to aÌ„d fro with obiections solutions replies resolutions diuises suppositioÌ„s c. And if reasoning of diuine maters doth signifie the questioÌ„ proponed not to be of so smal
the most Gorgeouse harlot BabiloÌ„ So that the beutiful harlot must not be vnderstanded now of Niniue peculiarly as S. Hierome applieth it but of the whore of Babilon Which by the interpretation of the whorish heretikes is the See of Rome Iudge now whether this be to interpret S. Hierom or to make a tale of their owne by the gifte of theyr lieing Sprite FroÌ„ theÌ„ce sayth S. CypriaÌ„ spring schismes sects Apolog. because meÌ„ seke not yâ— head haue not theyr course to the Fountaine of the Scriptures and keepe not yâ— rules geauen by the heauenly teacher Where hath S. Cyprian these words Or where speaketh he of the fountaines of the Scripture Confut. .347 Or the Original of truthe Of seeking to an head Of the doctrine of the Heauenly teacher He speaketh in the treatise De simplicitate Praelatorum or vnitate Ecclesiae and he bringeth al those three pointes to this end that Christe made Peter the head of his Church But of those fountaines of Scriptures we caÌ„ not tel wheâ— he speaketh and we knowe you so wel by this tyme that we can not beleue you except ye shew it The Euangelistes and the Apostles Prophetes sayinges shew vs sufficiently Apolog. what opinion we ought to haue of the will of God This is a true sayinge Confut. .313 yet Theodorete speaketh not of the wil of God generally but lib. 1. ca. 7 â–ª 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Godhead For the controuersie was then betwene the Catholiks and Arrians about the Consubstantialitie of God the Sonne with his Father And therefore interprete him better or vse not his Authoritie The 5. Chapiter declaring how Councels are belyed and abused in the Apologie of the Church of England According to the iudgment of the Nicen Councel Apolog. we say that the Bishop of Rome hath no more iurisdiction ouer the Church of God than the rest of the Patriarkes of Alexandria or Antiochia haue The Canon is Conf. 50. Let the auncient custome continue in force whiche he is it Egypt Libya and PeÌ„tapoli that the bishope of AlexaÌ„dâ—ia haue power ouer them all for asmuch as the Bishope oâ— Rome hath thus vsed In these words for asmuch as the Bishoppe of Rome hath thus vsed appeareth manifestlie the prerogatiue of the Bishoppe of Rome as from whose maner and custome they take an example of theyr doeinges For if it should be so vnderstanded that because the Bishoppe of Rome hath power ouer the couÌ„trie about him therefore the Bishope of Alexandria and not the Bishope of Antiochia should â—ule Egypt Libya and Pentapoly that hangeth no better togeather than if you should say let the Bishop of Canterbury be Archbishop of Yorkeshire or Ireland because the Bishoppe of Rome hath power ouer the Countreies about him And allthoughe this Argument maie seeme to conclude à Simili thus as the Bishoppe of Rome ruleth his Countrie so let euerie Metropolitane in like maner beare rule ouer his owne Countrie yet to appointe by name either Eygpte to the Bishope of Alexandria or Ireland to the Bishop of Canterbury that must depeÌ„d of some other cause and not of this that the Bishop of Rome hath iurisdictioÌ„ in Italy Now consider the mater as the truth is that the Bishoppe of Rome hath supreme authoritie emong al Bishopes and then it foloweth by good reason that the Bishop of Alexandria shall rule Egypt because the Bishop of Rome hath so vsed That is because it is so apointed and so receiued at Rome that Aegypte Libya and PeÌ„tapolis should perteine to the Bishoppe of Alexandria therefore let that order continue And this is the meaning of the Nicene Councell and this maketh for the Popes Supremacy and this proueth you to belye the Nicene CouÌ„cel which hath not at al any such wordes as you mention that he hath no more Iurisdiction ouer the Churche than the rest of the Patriarches The Councel of Carthage Apolog. did circumspectely prouide that no Bishoppe shoulde be called either the highe Bishope or Chiefe Priest The Councell doth not say No Bishope but Conf. 53. A Bishop of a first See shal not be called Chiefe of Priestes or highest Priest For whereas there be other priestes besides in the world which are not subiect vnto his see reason it is that his title extend it selfe to no more than those that are vnder his Iurisdiction Also this Canon was for the Bishopes of the prouinces of Aphrica And last of all it extendeth it selfe only to the first sees which are many according to the numbre of Countries and not to the Apostolike See and chiefe aboue all which is but one The Councel of Nice Apolog. as is alleaged by some in greeke plainly forbiddeth vs to be basely affectiouated or bent toward the Bread and Wine whiche are sette before vs. This disproueth nothinge at all the real presence of Christ in the SacrameÌ„t Conf. 108 especiallie if you would haue added that whiche foloweth in the verie selfe same sentence and not haue clipped so worthie a Councell For it foloweth thus But lyfting vp our minde lette vs by faithe vnderstand on that holy table to be laied the laÌ„be of God that taketh away the synnes of the world which is sacrificed of Priestes vnbloudelie and receiuing his preciouse body and bloud verely let vs beleue these to be the pleadges of our resurrection Therefore the Councel in forbidding vs to be baselie affected intended not to make vs beleue that Christ is in heauen onlie and not also vpon the Aultar The old Councell at Rome decreed Apolog. that no man should come to the seruice saied by a Priest well knowen to keepe a Conucbyne We find no such Canon in the old Romaine Councels But Nicolaus and Alexander Popes haue willed that none should heare the Masse of that Priest whom he knoweth vndoutedly to kepe â— Concubine whereby ye may vnderstand the masse alowed and the lustes of the Clergie punished and your mistaking of the Councell corrected The olde councell Gangrense Apolog. commaundeth that none should make suche difference betwene an vnmaried Priest a maried Priest as he ought to thinke the one more holy than the other for single life sake The wordes be these Confut. 240. If anie make a difference of a Priest who hath ben maried as thoughe when he sacrificeth a man might not communicate with his oblation accursed be he The Councell therefore speaketh of suche as were first maried and afterwardes toke Priesthode vppon them and not contrarywise of such as were first of all pristes and then afterwards did fall to mariage In which poynte the obiection of Catholikes against you consisteth The Councell at Carthage coÌ„maunded Apolog. nothing to be reade in Christes coÌ„gregatioÌ„ but the Canonical Sciptures Why reade you then Homelies of your owne making Conf. 24â— But to the matter The wordes of the councel are these It hath seemed good vnto vs that
Hosius aloweth them for his owne wordes or no. Or if he haue writeÌ„ theÌ„ Apolog. Hosius haue iudged the same to be wicked why hath not Hosius spokeÌ„ so much as one word to confute them By like reason you might make S. Augustine a greate heretike because in 〈◊〉 booke ad Quoduultdeum he 〈◊〉 shortlye the heresies that were in 〈◊〉 world and doth not also confute them 〈◊〉 he telleth them But the cause of Hosius fact is euident for that his principal purpose in that place was to shew the heretikes procedinges and not to tary about the confuting of theyr sayinges And whereas he compteth Zwenkfeldius an vptarsÌ„t heretike for those foresayd wordes is it not manifest that he him selfe hath no lyking of those woordes Verelie although Hosius in noting Zwenkfeldius for those wordes hath not straitewaies aunswered his argumentes yet he sufficiently proueth himself to be of a contrarie opinion and thereby aunswereth your fonde obiection by whiche your would seeme to make Hosius a Zwenkefeldian in that he iudged Zwenkfeldius wordes to be wicked and yet spake not so much as one worde to confute them As though it were not to speake some word at the least against a position to saie no more but this of it that it is an heresie But see what foloweth in the Apologie Howe so euer the matter goeth Apolog. allthough Hosius peraduenture wyll not allowe those wordes yet he doth not disalow the meaning of the wordes This Confut. howe so euer the matter goeth of which you speake hath this sense in it that there is no remedie but you must one way or other make Hosius to be a Zuenckefeldian least you should seeme to recant and reuoke that which most vniustly and blindly ye haue layed vnto his charge And therefore whereas it is most manifest that Hosius aloweth not those heretical wordes which he attributeth vnto Zuenkefeldius and whereas ye can neuer purge your selues of the slaunder made vppon him in that behalfe ye depart from the matter neither prouing sufficiently your obiecton neither confessing honestly that you haue mistaken him but leauing it with a peraduenture Hosius wyll not allowe those wordes ye procede to proue that how so euer the matter goeth Hosius disaloweth alloweth not the meanynge of those wordes In which poynt ye discharge not youâ— honesties but shew partly your fond inuention in burdening your Adueruersarie with the sense of those wordes the speaking or writing of which ye can not proue against him his open fact and denial standing to the contrarie partly your wretched disposition in mainteyning a lye by impudencie as though neuer to confesse your fault were the next way to be deliuered I adde further that ye be lesse sure of Hosius meaning than of his speaking or writing For wordes and letters are sensible but the meaning without some externall signe â—ade is not intelligible If therefore you will leaue to presse Hosius with the foresaied wordes 〈◊〉 peraduenture he will disallowe 〈◊〉 should ye not much more haue 〈◊〉 your selues from laying the 〈◊〉 of them vnto his charge Except you be so folish as to thinke that he wil not put awaie from him the sense of those words the very forme of which ye ghesse he wil disalowe But let vs see further how substantially ye wil proue Hosius to be of this mind that the Scriptures are to be reiected It foloweth For wel nere in all controuersies Apolog. Your slaunder is to general Confut. come to some special poynt or other And namely touching the vse of the holy communion vnder both kindes Apolo although the wordes of Christ be playne and euident yet doth Dosius disdainefully reiecte them as no better thaÌ„ cold and deade Elements What meane ye by disdainfully reiect them Confut. Doth he scrape them out of his boke Doth he cal theÌ„ not worth a straw as Luther calleth S. Ioannes epistle stramineam a strawen epistle Doth he say that they are crepte into the text out of the margen Beza ia Anno. in Luc. 22. as Beza reporteth like a blindebuzzarde the wordes of S. Lukes Ghospel which shal be shed for you to haue ben infarced What hath Hosius don to the texte of the Scripture that ye shoud so lowdly obiecte it that he doeth disdainefully reiecte them Bringe in your arguments that they may be considered And shew vs some euidence that ye seeme not to light and slaunderous of your tongue There is no doubt but Hosius and you will not agree vppon the sense of many textes but concerning the wordes them selues of the Ghospel Hosius can not possibly reiecte them being a Catholike For in such cases he can doe nothing of him self but must folow the Catholike church And the Catholike Churche is so religious towardes Scripture that as she hath receiued it so she mainteineth and keepeth it still Note therefore this place gentle Reader and marke whether the Authours of the Apologie haue either the habilitie to proue that by which they haue defamed a right Catholike and Reuerend Bishoppe Or the humilitie and honestie to confesse theyr fault and to aske forgeauenes for theyr obiecting of that which they are not hable to proue The Canonistes of this day Apolog. for theyâ— bellyes sake vse to say of the Pope that for as much as he is Lord of al benefices though he sel for mony Bishopriks Monasteries Priesthod Spiritual promotions and parteth with nothing frely yet because he coÌ„pteth al his own he câ—n not commit simonie though he would neuer so fame How proue ye that the Canonistes Confut. 259. of this day haue such a conclusioÌ„ as you speke of The author of Summa angelica or Theodoricus whom ye name in the margen for the profe of this mater are dead many daies agoe and serue not to proue that the Canonists of this day now liuiÌ„g haue this or that opinion Therfore I wil be so bolde as to charge you with one lye in accusing the Canonistes of this day An other lye shal be that you slauÌ„der them to speake what soeuer they be of whom ye meane for their belies sake For God knoweth al the lawiers which you euer haue seene or had to do withal fare litle the better for the Popes table The thirde lie and that moste notable is that ye make them to conclude it absolutely and generallie of the Popes prerogatiue which they meane but in a certaine case and one certaine respecte onlie For the distinction and determination of this question by the verie Summam Angelicam it selfe is that concerninge suche punishementes and paines as are sette vppon Symonie by the positiue Law the Pope is not subiect vnto them But for the other thinges which are Symoniacal and punishable by the Law of God In ijs quae sunt Symoniaca de iure diuino the Pope is not exeÌ„pted froÌ„ the fault and pâ—â—ne due to it The Greeks haue neither priuate Masses nor mangled Sacramentes Apolog.
aunswer The one is as reasonable as the other Although the modestie and the myldenes of the Emperour Ferdinande Apolog. be so greate that he can beare this because peraduenture he vnderstandeth not the Popes packing yet ought not the Pope of his holynes to offer him that wrong nor to claime as his own an other mans ryght A lykelie mater Confut. .313 that the Emperour should not vnderstand the packinges if anie be made of the Pope hauing a wise Councell assisting him and the worlde round about sownding of heretiks bokes and practises him selfe also hauing as ye will not I thinke denie as muche iudgement and discretion as your ministers of whom yet euerie one maketh himselfe to know much of the Popes packing and goeth with his fardell about him and like a spiritual pedler setteth foorth his smal wares in open pulpittes and emong all other pointes vttereth those of the Popes behauiour as most gay geare for the brothers and sisters Note besides this howe artificiallie they praise the Emperour for his modesty and mildnes because say they peraduenture he vnderstaÌ„deth not the Popes packing Thinke ye then that if without peraduenture he vnderstande it not that the hearing thereof doth proue a mildnes to be in him So may ye praise a deafe man for his meekenesse when that not hearing the euil wordes that are spoken against him he is neuer moued or troubled with them If so be they whom God hath placed in greatest dignitie Apolog. did see and perceaue these mens practises how Christes commaundementes be despised by them c. no doubt they would neuer so quiâ—â—lie suffer them selues neither to be disdayned after such a proude sorte nor so dispitefullie to be scorned and aâ—used by them No doubt Confut. 32â— but if you for your no litle wit or learning were worthie to be in any great dignitie you should quicklie perceyue that the Princes and Rulers of the world haue and do vnderstande as much of the state of Religion as any of the Brotherhood either because they are wise of them selues and are set in an high place from which they may better see what is done in the worlde than other of base degree either because Kings and Princes haue commonly about them either wise CouÌ„celers to instruct them of all things Or Courtly Discoursers which will be ignorant of nothing Or dissolute lyuers which are ready to speake against the Auncient faith for loue of the late Gospels libertie and noueltie Ireneus often tymes appealed to the oldest Churches Apolog. which had bene neerest Christes tyme and which it was hard to beleue had erred but why at this day is not yâ— coÌ„mon respect consideratioÌ„ had See how properly you wil haue appeale made to the oldest Churches Confut. â—23 which abaÌ„doÌ„ the Church of Rome which was in S. Ireneê° time so truly the chief that vnto it as he saith al Churches must resort because of the greater priÌ„cipality Lib. 3. c. 3. and which at this day is without all question the oldest and from which you haue so strayed vnto seeking of the ouldest Churches that falling vpon a young congregation of three score yeare olde at the most ye passe not very much vpon anye church new or olde but onely the pure and plaine scripture For somuch as we were ascertened of Godes wil Apolog. and compted it a wickednes to be carefull and ouercoÌ„med about the iudgments of mortall men we could no longer stand taking aduise with flesh and blood Haue ye receued your Gospel by reuelatioÌ„ Confuâ— .317 as S. Paul saith of himself that he did Are you the Apostles of Christ neyther throughe man neither from man If ye will be ashamed of such arrogancie then haue you to confesse that ye haue learned the Ghospel of â—od at the mouth of men If ye wil stil glory in it and neuer blush then walke as ye are and shew vs your Reuelation or tell what contrary Aduertisement you haue receiued why ye should not throughly follow their iudgementes of whom ye receiued the Ghospel at the beginning Iohn Chrysostome Apolog. although the Emperoure Constantius coÌ„maunded him by â—o wer sundrie letters to come to the Arrians coâ—ncel yet kept he him selfe at home â—â—ill How is the Prince then Supreame head Confut. 3â—â— Or how doe you bring S. Chrysostomes example for defence of your fact For if the Kynge be chiefe Gouernour in all causes spirituall and temporall surely he was no good and obedient subiecte whiche would not come at fowre times sending for On the other side if ye dare reproue S. Chrysostome for his not yelding to the supreme powres commaundement what meant you to alleage S. Chrysostome in defence of your doings allowing not the fact of S. Chrysostom The third Chapiter conteining the lies that are made in telling of Stories with Folies in crediting of vaine tales Were al things then pure and holy in Rome Apolog. when Iohane a woman rather of perfit age thaÌ„ of perfit lyfe was Pope there and bare her selfe as the head of the Church And after that for two whole yeres in that holy See thee had played the naughtie packe at laâ—t going in Procession aboute the Citie in the syght of all the Cardinalles and Bishops fell in trauaile openly in the stretes THere was neuer any such woman Pope in Rome Confut. .154 Anastasius an historiographer of that time and master of the Popes Librarie whiche was himselfe present at the creations of Sergius 3. Leo 4. Benedictus 3. and other Popes after them maketh no mention of any such And yet the makers of this woman Pope â–ª do place her â–ª betwene Leo 4. and Benedoctus 3. Other historiographers also both old and late of the beste sorte make no accompte of her Then he that telleth the tale of thiâ— Pope Iohane telleth it with such probabâ—litie that he must be of smal wit and discretion which should geaue anie credite vnto it For he speaketh firste by heare saie onelie Then he telleth that she was an Englishe woman borne at Magunce and Magunce is high Doutchelande Further he saith that she was brought to Athenes by a louer of hers And therefore by likelyhood she was more than a Childe Nowe what should she doe at Athenes but lerne a Gods name And Athenes at that time was not for learnyng as being altogether barbarous And yet she not onlie learned but profited also in diuerse sciencies and so profited that none was found to be compared with her And yet it is 〈◊〉 to saie whether women in mens 〈◊〉 and kepte purposelie for the 〈◊〉 of theyr Louers should haue the 〈◊〉 the will the wit the leisure the grace to passe all other of the Vniâ—rsitie But let the tale goe forwardes How came she to Rome by what faâ—ur by what hope by what louers cost◠〈◊〉 fancie Well this is not told but as â—hough that there were no more in the 〈◊〉 but that
would haue had him to surrender the Empire And taking his Father prisoner he committed hym to straight custodie without anie motion of the Pope therevnto as with whome also he was at Variance Then as touching the Shearing or thrusting him into A Moâ—asterie or famishing of Henrie the fourth lette hym that made these shamefull lyes shewe his Authour and defende hym selfe Who Apolog. so ilfauouredlie and monstrouslie put the Emperour Frederikes necke vnder hys feete and as thoughe that were not suffyciente added further thys Texte out of the Psalmes Thou shalt goe vppon the Adder and Cockatrice and shalt tread the Lyon and Dragon vnder thy feete Who this should be Conf. 188 your selues can not tell whiche are the onelie mainteiners of the tale For sometymes ye laie it to Innocentius the thyrde sometymes to Innocentius the eyght sometymes to Alexander the thyrde And the fact being so strainge and singular that it coulde not be but notorious yet ye haue so litle certeintie thereof that ye knowe not who should haue done it But the trueth is no graue writer maketh any mention of such behauiour of the Pope The Emperour Theodosius 〈◊〉 as Socraâ—es sayth did not only sit emongs the Bishopes but also ordered the whole arguiâ—g of the cause Here you speake of sitting 〈…〉 as though Thâ—odâ—sius had then ben at some General Councel You speake also of ordering the whole arguing of the cause as though him selfe had ben a moderatour of some disputation The plaine storie is Hist. 〈◊〉 9 ca. 19 Theodosius conâ—erred familiarly in his owne palace with the Bishope of Constantinople howe his people might be brought to an vnitie in faith And when the heretikes refused one good way which was to be tried by the testimonies of Auncient Fathers he went an other waie to worke with theÌ„ whiche was that eche of them should bring furthe in writing that which he had to say for his faith Which being don the Emperour read ouer theyr writings aÌ„d reiected the ArriaÌ„s MacedoniaÌ„s and Eunomians heresies and embraced and commended the iudgement of the Nicene Councel touching the consubstantiality of God the Sonne with his Father So that this historie serueth nothing to the mater of a General Councel nor proueth that an Emperour may sit there as Iudge emong the Bishops nor that Theodosius did vpon his owne heade and as Supreme Gouernour that which Socrates here reporteth of him but that he folowed the Councel of his Bishope Nectarius and the former decrees of the Nicene Councel Iustinian put doun from theyr Papal Throne two Popes Apolog. Syluerius and Vigilius notwithstaÌ„ding thei were Peters successours and Christes Uicars No Conf. 3. it was not Iustinian but his Ladie Theodora which was a great mainteiner of heretikes and when women theyr husbandes being alyue be so ferueÌ„t in sprite that they must haue such Popes as please them selues no wounder if Peters Successours be shamefullie handeled Charles the greate being Emperour held a prouincial Councel in Germanie Apolog. for putting awaye Images contrary to the second Councel at Nice This is so false Confut. 327 that the contrarie is most true For whereas the heretikes named Imagebreakers Abbas Vrsper Anselm Ryd PeÌ„cerus Carion Pantalâ—o had holden a CouÌ„cel at Constantinople for abrogating of Images directly against this impietie of theyrs Pope Adrian and Charles the greate held an other Councell at Frankeford in Germanie So muche it lacketh that Charles the greate should be a fauourer of Imagebreakers The fourth Chapiter conteinyng the lies made vpon the Auncient Fathers and other VVriters S. Augustin Apolog. wheÌ„ he disputed against PetiliaÌ„ an heretik of the side of the Donatistes let not these words Aug. de vnitate Eccl. c 30 quod he be heard betwen vs I say or you say let vs rather speake in this wise thus sayth the Lord there let vs seeke the Church there let vs boult out the cause THe question betwene S. Augustine aÌ„d the Donatistes was this Conf. 29. wher the Church should be Now to proue that the Church was not with the Catholiks the Donatistes were busie alwaies in rehersing how the Catholikes had burned the holie bokes aÌ„d had offred incense to Idols and had persequuted InnoceÌ„tes like as the protestaÌ„tes in these daies wheÌ„ the questioÌ„ is of the Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome thei vse to make a long tale how such a Pope was a NecromaÌ„cer and such a one a leacheroâ—s man and some other proude and ambitious Now although S. Augustine mighâ— and did also in sundry places say truelyâ— that the obiections of the Donatisteâ— were false Augu. de vnit Eccles ca. 2. IdeÌ„ lib. 2. coÌ„t epist. petil c. 8. and though he might brinâ— furth against them also greater examples of their faults yet considering thaâ— such oiections taken out of the euill life of the one side or the other doe not perteine to the question proponed And seeing that altercation and strife only waâ— mainteined thereby whiles eche partâ— would say â–ª the other lied and would noâ— ceasse to tell what they could one of thâ— other being not credited yet one of thâ— other S. Augustine therefore not desirous to chide but earnest to proue thâ— Churche to be on his side vseth thesâ— wordes De vnit Eccl. c. â— Let vs not heare This I saie or This thou saiest but let vs heare this saieth our Lord â–ª After which wordes these folowe whiche the Apologiâ— should not haue omitted Truly ther bâ— extant our Lordes bookes the authoritie of which we both do agree with al we both beleue we both serue and obey There let vs seeke the Church there vs boult out our cause For the Church it self to proue it selfe by her owne wordes is not conuenient And to credit her at the reporte and coÌ„meÌ„dation of a baser aÌ„d vnworthier witnes then her self is very dishonorable It remaineth therefore that her cause be examined by the Scriptures as whiche haue so great authority and are so generally receiued And truly it is exceading wel prouided of God that in theyr seueral causes the Church sâ—ould declare the scriptures and the scriptures the church And so wheÌ„ any maÌ„ beleueth the church and striueth with me vpon a text of the scripture I would say vnto him let vs haue no more these words I saie or you say but let vs heare rather this saieth the Church On the other side when one beleueth the scriptures as heretikes thinke they do and would reason with me about the Church where it should be I would answer Let not these wordes be hearâ— among vs I say or you say but let vs heare This saith the Scripture Therefore in this principall question betwene the Catholikes and the Donatists which was where the Church should be the best waye was only to appeale to Scriptures Againe the Donatistes admitteâ— the Scriptures but other thinges which S. Augustine alleaged out of laufull recordes either of the
Ecclesiasticall or the Temporall Court to encounter them withal they did not belieue And so I say and thou sayest went to and fro betwene them without anie conclusion or profite To driue therefore the mater to some Issue let vs heare no more saieth he I saie or thou sayest but this sayeth our Lorde his bookes we both belieue we both obey there let vs seeke the Church Now in other Kyndes of question as of fasting receiuing the SacrameÌ„ts keping of holy dayes and other traditions S. Augustine wold neuer bind vs to Scripture onlie him selfe saying of these and the like in his Epistle ad Ianuarium August â— epist. 116. ad â—anuarium What so euer the whole Church thorough the worlde dothe kepe thereof to dispute it is a most insolent madnes Likewise also towarde such kynde of Aduersaries as woulde be tried hy testimonies of olde Fathers togeather with Scriptures or without expresse Scripture he would neuer charge vs to vse these wordes onelie This saieth our Lorde but well would haue bene contented that we should saie â–ª this saieth Cyprian Ambrose Basile c. him selfe speakinge of Auncient Fathers before and in his tyme after this fasshion Quod credunt Contra IulianuÌ„ PelagianuÌ„ lib. 1. ca. 2. credo that whiche they beleue I beleue that whiche they say I say c. Therefore ye haue abused very muche your Reader and S. Augustine bothe making the one to thinke the other to testifie that we should not fight against Heretikes but with expresse Scripture onelie Fulgentius ad Thrasimundum saith Apolog. that Christ thoâ—gh he be absent from vs concerning his manhode yet is euer present with vs concerning his Godhead The forme of a seruant is one thing Confut. 3â— and manhood is an other The forme perteineth to shape and figure which couereth our substance and maketh it visible the manhood perteineth to the inwarde nature and is only intelligible The first is not graunted nor taught of the Catholikes that Christ is with vs now in earth after the forme of a seruant The second yet they confesse and belieue that he is with vs really in his manhood The first is Fulgentius true sayeng to the king Thrasimund The second is your deprauing of Fulgentius in face of the worlde Sozomenus saieth of Spiridion Apolog. and Nazianzene saieth of his owne Father that a good and diligent Bishoppe doth serue in the ministery neuer the worse for that he is maried but rather the better and with more hablenes to doe good It will neuer I feare be better with you Confut. 76. but alwaies worse and worse Would ye make Gregorie Nazianzene contrarie to the Apostle And S. Paule so expresselie pronouncyng that he which hath a wyfe is carefull for the thinges of the world 1. Cor. 7. and is diuided thinke you that any Auncient Father or writer whose testimonie your selfe doe trust were likely to say that a Bishop dothe serue the better in the ministery for that he is maried I am glad ye geue credit to Sozomenus and Nazianzene vsing them for witnesses that we may see whether ye wil regard their owne very wordes and crie them mercy for abusiug them Sozomenus saith thus speaking of SpiridioÌ„ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lib. 1. c. â—◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This Spiridion waâ— an husband man hauyng wyfe anâ— chyldren but he was not therefore the worse to Godward How thinke you then doth he praise Mariage Doth he saie He serued God the better and wyth more hablenes by reason thereof Doth he not rather note it as a rare and a singular grace in him that hauing such occasions of diuidyng and distracting his mind he neuerthelesse was nothing abated in his diligence and attention towardes God Nazianzene likewyse speaketh of S. Basiles Fathers perfect life in mariage with A but yet saying Although he put himself in bondes of mariage yet he liued so therein as he was letted no whyt therefore from the attaining of perfect vertue and folowing of wisedome As who should say it commeth most times so to passe that when students or holy men are maried they looke but seldome on their bookes but wait vpon the busines of the world yet was it otherwyse with Basiles Father For he although he put himself in bonds of mariage yet he was no whit letted therefore c. In which words he coÌ„mendeth his vertue and geueth no exaÌ„ple to vnmaried Priests that if they wil be furthered to perfectioÌ„ they should not be without a bedfelow nomore thaÌ„ he which should report of an other that he sitteth at a table ful of delicats and yet neuer surfeiteth vpon them that proue that it is a right waye to temperance alwaies to be at many and fine dishes Whereas contrariwise in all things that are delectable vnto the senses and hurtfull by excesse vnto morall vertues the safest way is to flee from occasions of euill vntil by longe custome an habite be obteined in the vertue And then as it is an argument of greate perfection to liue with a woman and nothing to be hindred in deuotion by her so it is so rare a vertue and needelesse thoughe it be in a man to be practised that as it may sometimes come to passe that one is not the worse yet there was neuer yet any man so blind and vnsensible which would thinke it to be a preferment toward perfection to be at bed and at borde with a woman The more you haue then to answer for which haue fathered such a sense on S. Gregory Nazianzene S. Hierome Al these things saith he which without the testimony of the Scriptures Apolog. are holdeÌ„ as deliuered from the Apostles be throughly smitten doune by the sword of Gods worde He saith not generally al those things Conf. 30 oiÌ„a but In â—rinâ—uÌ„ cap. Aggaei Sed alia that is and other thinges also And he saith not which are holden asseruÌ„tur but which they find and fâ—ncie meaning heretikes of whom onely he speaketh in that place And therefore he maketh not a generall rule against Traditions but a special prouision against the deceits of heretikes It was ryghtly said by Pius the second a bishop of Rome Apolog that he sawe many causes why wiues should be taken away from Priests but many moe and more weighty causes why they ought to be restored to them againe His wordes Conf. â—0 as Platina reporteth are these that mariage hath bene takeÌ„ froÌ„ Priestes with great reason And that it semeth it were to be restored again with greater Note it semeth not it ought and note greater reaâ—on and not manie moe and more weyghtie And if he had so ernestly spoken as you suppose yet dothe he not allowe the mariage of priestes whiche he confesseth to haue bene taken away for greate cause but so muche he seemeth to be greaued with the loosenes of theÌ„ in his time that he thought the causes why they might be permited to
besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be red in the Church vnder the name of the holy Scriptures Therfore it forbiddeth not the reading of other thinges but in that sort as they should be commended and vttered for Scripture it selfe And strait wayes it foloweth in the same decree Let it be lauful also for the passioÌ„s and deaths of Martyrs to be read wheÌ„ their yerely feasts are kept Doe you see your lie now and wil ye lowly coÌ„fesse it Or are ye so froward that ye wil not see it or are ye so cunning that ye caÌ„ defend it Your coÌ„fession or defensioÌ„ we are content te heare but if you will be blinde lette others behold and consider that nothiÌ„g but Canonical Scripture and the deathes of Martyrs to be readen also in the Church can not both be true and stand togeather And beholde whiles I thought this obiection could not possibly be refelled it was for certainty reported vnto vs here by some that were present at M. Iewels sermoÌ„ at Poules Crosse the fiftenth of Iuly last that he complained that M. Doctor Harding wroÌ„gfully charged the authors of the Apologie with this place as being a manifeste abusing and mangling of the third CouÌ„cel of Carthage For sayd he we alleage not this out of the CouÌ„cel of Carthage but of the Councel of Hippo. Did ye so in deede Is not your Apologie therin against you Is not the CouÌ„cell of Carthage both named in the Text and noted in the margent thereof Your Latine is thus In Apol. Ecclesi Angl. Vetus Concilium Carthaginense iubet ne quid in Sacro coetulegatur praeter scripturas Canonicas aÌ„d in the margeÌ„t thus it is noted TertiuÌ„ Carth. ca. 47. And the English interpretation hath thus The old Councel at Carthage coÌ„maunded nothing to be readen in Christes coÌ„gration but the Canonical Scriptures and there lykewise in the margent ye put Concil Car. 3. cap. 47. How dare ye then so loudly to lie that ye alleaged the foresaied place out of the Councel of Hippo and not the Councell of Carthage It appereth well that Doctor Harding hath ye vpon the hippe when to saue your selues from the fall ye deny your owne words In his reply to D. Cole And wonder it is that M. Iewel would euer be the reporter of such an answer In his replie to D Harding .157 whereas himselfe hath vsed this very place of the CouÌ„cel of Carthage to like effect aÌ„d purpose as ye haue vsed it in your Apology Especially wheras there is no Councel of Hippo extant at al vnto which yet ye refer your selues CoÌ„sider therfore Indifferent reader of this place and suffer not thy selfe so to be abused that they shal make thee beleue that they alleaged not that Councell whiche thou maiest see with thy owne eyes to be named and quoted in theyr Apologie and that they folowed the Canons of the Councell of Hippo of whiche they can shewe no Canons at all that are extant In the Councell at Chalcedone Apolog. Ciuile Magistrate condemned for Heretiks by the sentence of his owne mouth the Bishoppes Dioscorus Iuuenal and Thalasius and gaue iudgement to put them from that promotion in the Church In what parte of that Councell Conf. 315. maie one finde this which you reporte In the thirde Action we doe reade that Paschasius with his two felowes the Legats of the Pope of Rome pronounced the sentence of condemnation against Dioscorus the forme whereof is fully there expressed How then Shall we thinke that one of the Popes Legates was a Ciuill Magistrate Or that the Ciuil Magistrate condemned Dioscorus ageine by the sentence of his own mouth when he was sufficiently iudged by the whole Councel of Bishopes Ye haue manie fetches yet you can not but be conuinced in this place of an impudent lye or extreme folie The most that ye might saie as farre as we can reache is that the Ciuile magistrate subscribed vnto the sentence of the Councell and by his voice also condemned Dioscorus for an heretike But this is not inoughe for you to saue your honesties For you must declare that the ciuil magistrat not only coÌ„deÌ„ned them by his testimonie or assent but also by his sentence and not such a sentence only as might concurre with the iudgmeÌ„tes of the Superiours lyke as euery bishoppe in a general Councel geueth sentence in causes Ecclesiasticall But it is included within that one senteÌ„ce which the chiefest in al the Councel do alow and geue but you must ê“ue that the ciuil mgistrat gaue the senteÌ„ce with his own mouth For so ye speake as though he had ben the the best man in the place and president of the Councel To this of Dioscorus that ye may aunswer the more fully I wil not troble yoâ— with Iuuenal and Thalassius whome ye haue also belyed in this mater Bishopes of an other sorte than Dioscorus was although you haue coÌ„deÌ„ned them together The Sixth Chapiter wherein is noted how the Apologie belieth and abvseth the Scriptures theÌ„selues It was saied indifferently to all the Apostles Apolog. Feed eye YOu meane Conf. 48. I am assured the one and tweÌ„ty of S. Iohn in which chapiter yet there is no meÌ„tion at al of the plural number with Feed ye but to S. Peter alone feede thou saieth Iesus my lambes feede thou my shepe Whether haue you a Ghospell not yet knowen to the world in which Christ saieth indifferently to al his Apostles feede ye Woe vnto you Scribes and Pharseis Apol. which haue takeÌ„ away yâ— keies of knowlege and haue shut vp the kingdome of heauen before men The Scripture saying Conf. 72. that one iote or title of the law shal not passe vntil all be fulfilled a changing of the numbre in any place of the Gospel must not be thought to be vnworth the noting Luâ—â— 11. Of the keie of knowlege Christ spake and not of keies in the plural number Paule saieth Apolo that the tyme should be when men should not awaie with holsome doctrine but be turned backe vnto â—ables and lyes and that wythin the very Church And that within the very Church Conf. 20â— Where finde ye these wordes in S. Paul That men should not away with holsome doctrine it is to be founde in the fourthe chap. of the seconde to Timothe And it is verified in all heretikes but that S. Paul â—hould referre those wordes to the very Church it selfe it is impudently attributed to the Apostle And to graunte vnto you as muche as might be for excuse of your wordes that in some sense it might be true that euen within the verie Churche men shoulde not away with holsome Doctrine that is that althoughe manie for theyr vnderstandinge dissented not from it yet in theyr lyuing they shoulde impugne it Yet to saye as you doe that S. Paule dothe expound his woordes of the verie Churche it is altogeather boldelie and falselie affirmed God Apolog. by
nor purgatories nor pardons An instance in anie one of these u sufficient to proue you a lyer And therefore to let passe Asia Syria Assyria and Armenia countries too far to goe vnto and see whether we say true or no In Venis at this day in the Greeke Church the priest receiueth alone at the altar which is by your interpretion to saie a priuate Masse and of this you mai be fully perswaded if because ye mistrust the Catholiks reporte which haue seen it you wil but aske of the Reuerent Father Shire or some of your owne Merchantes whiche haue trauailed thither or send some letter of yours by theyr frendeship to anie false ChristiaÌ„ and faithful brother ther to knowe whether you haue not spoken more than you are able to proue We turne yâ— scriptures into al toÌ„gues Apolog. they scante suffer them to be had abroad in anie tongue Haue ye turned them yet into welsh and Irishe Confut. but for lieing vpon yourselfe I leaue you to your selfe CoÌ„cerning the Catholikes if your saying be true who then maintaineth the Hebrue Readers of the old testament in Rome the expounding the same in latin in euerie Catholike Vniuersitie the open selling of Bibles Hebrue Greek and Latinâ— in al Printers shoppes the continual reading of Scriptures in Monasteryes not only in opeÌ„ Church and secrete Celle but eueÌ„ in the Refectories at diner and supper Who doe al this but Papistes Your lye therefore is verie notorious Peter verely whom the Pope hath oftence in hys mouth and more reuerently vseth to speake of Apolog. then he doth of Ihesu Christe dyd boldely stand against the holy Councell If ye loued Con. 274 either God or man so trulie and iustly as ye would be thought to doe it were impossible for you so suspitiousely to interprete the honour geauen to the Seruant to be a diminishing of the honor and reuerence due to his Master For the charitie of God the greater as it is in vs so it maketh vs to reioyse stil more and more the more that anie is praysed or remembred whom he fauoureth And to murmur grudge cast doune the heade or make a lippe at it when S. Peter or any other of the glorious and blessed in Heauen is dayly and reuerently spoken of what is it els but malitiously or blindelie to thinke that S. Peter hath alreadie honour inough or rather to much seruice done vnto him and that God him selfe is like to fare the worse if his Sainctes be continuallie magnified On the other side 1. Cor. â—â— concerning our neighbour Charitie being patient gentill not suspitious c. howe might a man full of spirite excepte it be of the hotte sprite of Hel iudge by a mans reuerent speaking of S. Peter that he would not speake so reuerentelie of Ihesus Christe Besides this ye whiche lyue in England and make suche reportes of the Pope whose abode is in Rome being neither of priuie chamber nor householde noâ— of the same Citie or Countrie with him howe can ye by anie likelyhode be other then false lyers in iudging so particularlie of his maâ—ers vntill ye bringe the Authonr of this your saying or light beleuers of tales when ye haue named the Authours Yet truly we do not despise councels Apolog. assemblies and conferences of Bishops and learned men neither haue we done that we haue done altogeather without Bishopes or without Councel The mater hath ben treated in open ParleameÌ„t with long consultation and before a notable Synode and Connocation Yeas Con. 275. altogether without Bishops and without a Councel For in that notable Parleament the first of our Soueraigne Lady that now is Quene in which that was don for you that was done ye could haue no Bishops in the plurall number to stand for you because ye had not so much as one in the Singular number Albeit afterward in dede one ye had and he being deceaued or ouercummed did beare with the procedinges more proprely then support them This is one Now as for the treating of the matter in open Parleament it was so open that your voices had no place in it This is an other Thirdly concerning the long consultation that was vsed the Parleament began after Christmas and without any greate arguing to or fro the maydenbill as it was called of the Princes Supremacie was readye to haue passed aboute the beginning of Lent Then stode one vp that spake against it with such libertie that he was examined vpon it and lost his owne libertie 30. dayes together and with such truth and grauitie that for so many daies after the matter also of the Supremacie was suppressed Yet about Easter for the worde head came in the word Gouernour And so was the Supremacye admitted when the Parleament so little thought of such a fetch that an earnest faâ—orer of the Gospel toke indignation at it and saied that if men were ashamed of the word it self head they should also refuse the Supremacie it selfe which was imported by it And cal you this a long consultation This is a third Last of all touching the notable Synod and coÌ„uocation it put vp to the ParleameÌ„t an expresse bil of informatioÌ„ against your procedinges So far of it was from helping you This is the fourth greate lye in this one little sentence of yours From which fowre if ye wil defende your selues by referring your meaning not to the first Parleament of the first yeare of Quene Elizabeth in which ye were Sirs out of office but vnto the other that folowed the Catholike Bishops now being safely kept in prison then as ye debate the poyse of your former 〈…〉 for al that ye doe augment 〈…〉 your foly For your mattâ—â—◠〈…〉 to passe for you in the first ParleameÌ„t in which none of you were pÌ„sent though the Parleament folowing had ben open the coÌ„sultation long the coÌ„uocation notable albeit this might be proued to be an open longe and notable lye yet note I praie you the folie and lie which in this sentence goe togeather For your maters being don to your hands in the first Parleament where no place was made for you it is a verie lye to saie We haue not done that we haue done altogeather without Bishoppes And the first Parleament seruing your purpose so fullie that ye needed not an other what wisedome was it to haue a longe consultation and notable Synode vppon that whiche was before concluded for you and by you was not to be remoued for all your notable conuocation Continuallie for the space of fyue hundred yeares Apolog. the Emperour alone appointed the Ecclesiastical assemblies Where beginne you to recken Con. 311. Three hundred yeares afâ—tr Christ there was no Emperour in the world openlie professing him selfe a Christian and yet Ecclesiasticall assemblies were apointed aÌ„d kepte in Hierusalem by the Apostles In Palestina when Victor was Pope At Rome by Fabian c. Then if ye will begyn at Constantin the first