of S. Paul The chalice of benediction which wee do blesse is it not the communication of the bloud of Christ and the bread which wee breake is it not the participation of the body of our lord I answeare that our doctrine is not here denied but affirmed for the Apostle teacheth here importing withall by his manner of speach the doctrine to be so well and so commonly knowne that none can denie it he teacheth I say that the breade and the cuppe are the communication of the body and bloude of our lord The reason whereof is cleere because in those formes are exhibited reallie the body and the bloude of Christ Whereas in your sense there were no reall receauing giuing or participating of the body and bloud of Christ but of bakers breade and meere wine And therefore to the Apostle the Corinthians if they had bene of your Religion might haue answeared no it is not any communication participation or communion of bloude and flesh but of naturall meate and drinke If you stick at the word breade you are dull for the words annexed to it doe interprete fully what breade it is and before you haue the word applied and the sense of it inculcated in the Sixt of S. Iohn where our Sauiour saith the breade which I will giue is my flesh Io. 6. v. 51.32.58.48 my father giues you true bread from heauen I am the breade of life c. where I thinke you are not so seÌ„sles as to take the word breade for that which bakers make More ouer this flesh or body of Iesus Christ is in the forme of bread in the Church as it was allso in his owne haÌ„d wheÌ„ he gaue it uÌ„to his disciples aÌ„d therefore after the phrase of Scripture it is called breade Mar. 16. Act. 1. as Angells appearing in meÌ„s likenes are there called meÌ„ 30. Fourthlie whereas wee say that it is not necessary the publique seruice be said in the vulgar tongue You oppose those words of S. Paul If I pray in a tongue to wit 1. Cor. 14. v. 14. which I vnderstand not my Spirit prayeth but my minde is without fruite Answ The meaning is that I haue not in that case the benefit of profiting my soule or minde with contemplation of the thinge yet neuer the lesse my Spirit is eleuated and ascendeth vnto God which is the substance and essence of prayer and this is nothing against vs. You vrge againe if thou blesse in Spirit how shall he say amen which doth supplie the place of the vulgar v. 16. since he knoweth not what thou sayest Answ The meaning is if thou speake some praise of God the hearers not knowing whether it be good or bad he that supplies the place of the vulgar cannot say amen to it Neither is this against vs for our coÌ„mon prayers or liturgies are both knowne and approoued by the Church to whom this approbation doth belonge and this all do know and therefore the clarke or he that supplieth the place of vulgar may boudly sâ—â— Amen Moreouer the Apostle doth not censure as ill that blessing in Spirit which you do vrge but sayeth expresly that he doth giue thankes well which doth so v. 17. If you say the contrary theÌ„ you coÌ„tradict the scripture not wee De imputa iustitia nihil noruÌ„t VValdenses Luth. colâ—oq c. de Suermeris Coce l. 8. â— 4. 31. The fift place is to shewe by Scripture that iustifyiÌ„g faith is that speciall faith whereby you beleeue that your sinnes are all forgiuen and you iust by an extrinsecall imputation of the iustice inherent in Iesus Christ This which is the ground and soule of your Religion wee denie Your proofe is Abraham beleeued God and it was imputed vnto him to iustice Rom. 4.3 v. 16. And therefore of faith that according to grace the promise may be firme Answ This is nothing against vs nor for you for the question is of the Obiect of this faith whether it were the remission of sinnes to him that beleeued they were remitted as you interprete it From the 16. v. to the end or somthing els Reade further and you shall finde in the same Chapter that the Obiect or thing he beleeued was that God would make him the father of many Nations and that notwithstanding his owne age and the sterilitie of his wife God was able to performe this promise Of your Obiect there is not one word neither is it to be fouÌ„d any where in all the Bible The Obiect of Iustifying faith if you beleeue Scripture is the Incarnation the Passion Resurrection and other revealed Mysteries Who is he that ouercometh the world he that beleeueth that Iesus Christ is the sonne of God â— Io. 5. v. 5. Rom. 10.9 If thou confesse with thy mouth our lord Iesus and in thy hart beleeue that God hath raised him from the deade thou shalt be saued Without faith it is vnpossible to please God for Heb. 11.6 he that coÌ„meth to God must beleeue that he is and is a rewarder to them that seeke him This is the Obiect of iustifying faith and the second part you do not beleeue because it implieth a merite in the beleeuer 32. The sixt place is about communion of lay people in both kinds You would haue it a diuine precept for the lay people I admit a diuine precept for the Priests who do consecrate and denie that there is any such whereby the lay people are commanded to receaue the Sacrament in both kinds Your place is Drinke ye all of this Mat. 26.27 But this place doth not import a precept or commaund for the lay people to receaue the blood for the speach is not directed to the lay people but to the Apostles And the word all is referd to them and was verified by them This is manifest by the words of the Gospell He gaue to his Disciples and said take and eate ibid. v. 26.27.28 this is my body And taking the chalice he gaue thankes and gaue to them the same disciples saying drinke ye all of this for this is my bloode c. And S. Marke relating it saith and taking the chalice giuing thanks he gaue to them and they all dranke of it If all dranke of it theÌ„ by all the Apostles are meant onely for all men were not there neither haue all Christians drunke of it In this therefore you haue produced no diuine precept for all men in their owne persons to receaue the blood 33. The seaueÌ„th place is to prooue the Scripture to be iudge of CoÌ„trouersies aÌ„d sufficient of it selfe without helpe of TraditioÌ„ Wee hold the necessity of TraditioÌ„ too â— Tim. 3.16 The place is All scripture inspired of God is profitable to teach to argue to correct to instruct in iustice that the maÌ„ of God may be perfect instructed to euery good worke Answ This is not against vs wee graunt tath it is profitable Wee denie that it is
euen as he christ is iust Moreouer you cannot deny that the Apostles and many other haue had charitie or loue Rom. 13 10 and loue is vitall and inherent and is the fulnes of the lawe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ibid. v. 9. Rom. 5.5 and He that loueth his neighbour hath Fulfilled the lawe The Charitie of God is powered foorth in our harts by the holie Ghost which is giuen vs. Wee beleeue that a man which hath charitie may by Gods grace auoid sinne You say No Lut. in 2. Gal. calu de Lib. ar l. 1. all his actions you say are sinnes The scripture 1. Io 3.9 Sinne. eschued 1. Io. 5.18 â— habit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Euery one that is borne of God committeth not sinne because his seede abideth in him and againe euery one which is borne of God sinneth not but the generation of God preserueth him and the wicked one toucheth him not 51. Libertie or power to make choise of good to Saluation by the assistance of Gods grace aÌ„d to eschewe that which is bad Allso to make choise of the better in good things occurring wee acknowledge You denie Lut. art 36. Cal. CoÌ„f. fâ—d p. 108. 2. Inst c. 3. Deut. 30. v. 15.19 Libertie The scripture I haue set before thee this day life and good aÌ„d coÌ„trariwise death and euill that thou maist loue our lord thy God aÌ„d walke in his waies aÌ„d keepe his coÌ„maÌ„dements c. I haue proposed vnto you life and death blessing and cursing Choose therefore life that both thou maiest liue and thy seede 1. Cor. 7. â—7 And the Apostle He that hath determined in his hart being setled not hauing Necessitie but hauing Power of his owne Will and hath iudged this in his hart to keepe his virgin doth well Therefore he that ioyneth his virgin in Matrimonie doth well and he that ioyneth her not doth better Let me adde one more out of Genesis Gen. 4 7. Vide S. Aug. l. 15. de ciuit c 7. Ps 118. v. 112. S. Ierom â— 8. Sept. ibid. 1. Cor. 9 2â— The lust thereof shall be vnder thee and thou shalt haue Dominion ouer it wee beleeue that good works may be done in conteÌ„plation of a reward or crowne You say No. Luth. in Fest OO SS Calu. in Antid sess 6. c. 16. Dauid I haue inclined my hart to do thy iustifications foreuer for Reward aÌ„d the The Apostle Euery one that striueth for maistrie refraineth himselfe from all things and they certes that they may receaue a corruptible crowne but wee an incorruptible wee beleeue that meÌ„ haue reward for their works giuen them by Gods iustice You say No. Luth in 2. Gal. Caluin in 4. Rom. Matt. 16.27 Reward and Merit Apoc. 22.12 The Scripture The sonne of man shall come in the glorie of his Father with his Angells and then will he Render to euerie one according to his works Behold I come quicklie and my Reward is with me to Render to euery man according to his works Thou sawest a fewe names in Sardis which haue not defiled their garmente and they shall walke with me in whites Apoc. 3.4 because they are Worthie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because they merit and deserue it 2. Tim. 4.8 And the Apostle There is laid vs for me a Crowne of Iustice which our lord will Render to me in that day a iuste Iudge and not onelie to me but to them allso that loue his comming Wee beleeue that a man may increase in Iustice according to that in the Reuelation he that is iust let him be iustified yet and let the holie be sanctified yet Apoc. 22.11 And wee beleeue that men are not iustified by faith onely Ia 2.24 workes iustifie but allso by works done by the Assistance and helpe of Gods grace You say By faith only Luth. in 2. Gal. Cal. in Antid sess 6. c. 9. The Scripture A man is iustified by works and not by faith onelie 52. VVee beleeue that vppon S. Peeter by grace made a Rocke the Church was built You say no. Luth. in 16. Matth. Caluin ibid. The Scripture Mat. 16.18 Primacie Thou art Peeter a rocke and vppon this rocke will I build my Church In the Syriacke in which laÌ„guage our Sauiour spake the thinge is yet cleerer for in both places for that wee reade Peeter and Rocke is the same word Cephas thus thou art Cephas and vppon this Cephas will I build my Church Moreouer the circumstances of the text and the connexion of the speache doe conuince that the Church was built on Peeter and the Fathers vnpartiall Iudges so vnderstood it witnesse your owne men for here I am not to alleage Antiquity Dâ—naeus Dan. Conâ— 3.16.277 pessimè Zanc. de Eccles c. 9. c. 8. col 94 The Fathers interpreted naughtilie those words of Christ Matth. 16. Thou art Peeter c. of the person of Peeter Zanchius another greate Protestant The Fathers exposition vppon this Rocke that is vppon Peeter is not admitted and Luther the great Apostle of Protestancie Here all Lut. in 2. Pet. c. 5. fol 490. either Fathers or Doctors as many as hetherto haue interpreted Scriptures haue stambled as when that of Matth. 16. Thou art Peeter c. They interprete of the Pope Wee beleeue that one of the Apostles peculiarly was made Pastor of the Church You say No. Luth. in Assert art 25. Calu. 4. Inst c. 6. The Scripture Peeter feede My Sheepe Io. 21.18 Wee beleeue that the Apostles and their Successors had power to forgiue and to retaine sinnes You say No. Calu. 3. Inst c. 3. 4. c. 19. Luther here so ouerlasheth oÌ„the affirmatiue side that in his booke de Clauibus he auoucheth the keies to apertaine to all Christians equallie euery way Omnibus modis Luthers Ghostly Father And in another place de abrog mi. pr. he houldes that if the Deuil should absolue it were valid Dum vitant stulti vitia c. In the scripture power to forgiue sinnes I do not say to declare them forgiuen or hidden and not imputed as you mince it but to forgiue and detaine Sinnes is giuen to Men only and to some Io 20. v. 22 Absolution not to all The scripture Whose sinnes you shall forgiue they are forgiuen them and whose you shall retaine they are retained Wee beleeue that power was giuen to S. Peeter and to the Church to release men by way of indulgence from temporall punishmeÌ„t remaining due for sinne You say No. Luth. Cap. Babil Caluin l. vnic Inst cap. 9. The scripture VVhatsoeuer thou Peeter shalt binde on earth shall be bound allso in the heauens Matt 16 19 Indulgences and VVhatsoeuer thou shalt loose in earth it shall be loosed allso in the heauens 53. In the matter of the Eucharist the ProtestaÌ„t schoole is diuided about the reall Presence and you follow Caluine So do Iewell Perkins Rainolds Wittaker BilsoÌ„ White c. And howsoeuer some of your
them This is a succession because they were not all at one tyme and a Catholique succession because the communion of Nations was with them and with their faith and their Decrees 61. Other obiections you haue against the truth of the doctrine which this Church doth maintaine But the chiefest of them are allready answeared in another place And hereafter I will proue at large that the Catholique Church onelie hath the assistance of the all teaching Spiritte and therfore cannot be condemned of errour by any meanes extant in the world whatsoeuer noe iudgment being of greater or of equall authoritie with hers by reason of the Spiritte which doth teach her all truth The second Conclusion The Christians in Communion with Vrbanus VIII are the Church of God THE THIRD BOOKE OF DIVINE ASSISTANCE THE FIRST CHAPTER Proouing diuine Assistance in the Catholike Church 1. HAVING declared sufficientlie which is the Church it followes next that wee speake of the diuine assistance in beleeuing and teaching which assistance the sonne of God hath promised vnto it Catholiques as I haue said before doe resolue their iudgment into the iudgment of the Church and the iudgment of the Church doth relie vppon the assistance of the holie Ghost by whose prouidence it is preserued from erring in the pâ—oposition of diuine faith This assistance in Church-proposition wee beleeue and that you must also grant and beleeue it I am now to prooue You will not denie that men are to be instructed trulie in faith an diuine matters for how shall they liue as Christians ought vnles they beleeue rightlie and how shall they beleeue rightlie if they be not well taught and instructed how shall they inuocate saith the Apostle in whome they haue not beleeued Rom. 10.14 and how shall they beleeue in whoÌ„ they haue not heard or how shall they heare without a preacher it cannot be For no man of himselfe is able to finde out or to discouer the mysteries of our faith the Trinitie the Incarnation of the Sonne of God the Scriptures and their meaning It is therefore necessarie that men be instructed in matters of faith 2. And since instruction is necessarie as wee also by experience know this instruction must be looked for in some Schoole and from some masters or instructors The question therefore comes presentlie about this teaching Schoole which and where it is that a man there may be instructed To this question the answeare is easie first it is not the companie of Athiests or Pagans for their doctrine and instruction is not holie and diuine Secondlie it is not the companie of Iewes for their doctrine is not Christian Thirdlie it is not the companie of confessed Heretiques therefore it is the Church for the Church is the Schoole of Iesus Christ and which this is I haue declared in the former booke This supposed I reason thus for diuine assistance 3. It belongs to the prouidence of allmightie God to assist that Schoole in which by his will and ordinance the whole world is to be instructed in diuine matters and Religion Therefore it belongs to Gods prouidence to Arg. 1 assist the Church for the Church is the said Schoole as I declared before The argument is cleere and needs no further confirmation but least you seeke to escape it if it be vrged by one that is no Scholler with some fonde distinction I note here that the Spirit doth assist to beleeue and to teach The first of these acts is in the vnderstanding and interior the second is publique or exterior and in the mouth The Spirit doth assist the Church both wayes that is to beleeue and to teach but the argument doth proceede here of assistance to the later to teach because faith according to S. Paul doth suppose instruction or teaching aÌ„d euery one should haue faith for without faith it is impossible to please God and he that beleeueth not shall be condemned Hebr. 11. Mar. 16. Moreouer you knowe that for resolution in diuine matters it is necessarie that a man knowe where to seeke instruction whom he may securelie followe in whose iudgment he may rest in whome and where the Spirit of God doth speake This is the thinge wee looke for and this thing is in noe other companie but the Schoole of Iesus Christe the Church 4. It may be you will say that a man desirous of instruction should come to you But this will not satisfie for what should a man haue done before Luther when Protestants were not nor your Religion thought vppon as I haue seene allreadie in the first booke He might haue gone ouer all the world to looke for your Church and lost his labour But deale plainlie with vs and declare your minde is there any congregation in the world whose instruction one may securelie fellowe or no if there be not what course should vnlearned men take to learne the truth shall they beleeue without preachers If there be which is it and whence hath it that it may be followed of it selfe or from the Spirit you can answeare nothinge but the Spirit and this Spirit not in Athiests nor in Iewes nor in confessed Heretiques but in the Church And thus much for those who seeke instruction 5. I prooue secondlie this assistance by the necessitie of a Iudge to determine controuersies Arg. 2 in matter of Religion Since the Scripture is obscure in many places and since Heresies do and must arise in the world it is necessarie that there be some Visible meanes able and sufficient to determine controuersies which meanes can be no other but the proposition and iudgmeÌ„t of the Church For being visible and intelligent able to heare examine and define the controuersies it must needs consist of men not of meere Spirits or of insensible creatures and if it consist of men these men must not be Athiests or enemies to the Christian doctrine such as are Pagans Iewes and confessed Heretiques and therefore they must be the Church or that part of it which is to teach The iudge of controuersies therefore is the Church Whence it followes that the holie Spirit doth assist her in this act of determining controuersies in matter of faith directing her vnderstaÌ„ding to coÌ„ceaue the meaning of Gods word and preseruing her from errour in the proposition of it This discourse you cannot denie with any shewe of probabilitie for there is no meanes to make an end of controuersies among men if the iudgment of the Church be neglected or be not certaine aÌ„d infallible if the Spirit of truth be not in the Church it is in none at all if it doth not teach the Church it doth teach none if it doth not direct the Church to vnderstand Gods word it directeth none if it doth not assist the Church when she for the generall good of the Christian world doth determine a controuersie of faith it doth assist none at all for all the promise made by our Sauiour Iesus Christ of assistaÌ„ce is made vnto
the Church in later tymes did conforme her iudgment to the iudgment of the church in former tymes and esteeme it infalliblie This is true at all tymes from the Apostles to this daie therfore all the Church of all this tyme is against your affirmation and your affirmation against the Spirit of all this Church pastors and people 〈◊〉 and learned auncient and moderne 53. Fourthlie 4. Confir If all Christians be warranted by Iesus Christ the Sonne of God and true God to heaâ—e the Church and to 〈…〉 iudgment then is it vnpossible that the generall resolution of the Church in matter of faith though not fundamentall in your sense be false and coÌ„tradict the eternall truth because God being truth and goodnes obligeth not men to erre and to contradiction But all Christians are so warranted Luk. 10. v. 16. He which heareth you heareth me he which contemneth you contemneth me It is therfore vnpossible that the generall resolution of the Church in matter of faith though such as you call not fundamentall be false therfore it hath by Gods prouidence the assistance of the Spiritt of truth in euerie such generall resolution 54. Fiftlie If the whole Church theÌ„ all Bisshopes all Fathers though consenting all together aÌ„d teaching vniformely may haue erred in matters of faith which are not of your fundamentalles 5. Confir Whence it followes that whatsoeuer they haue said or beleeued or receaued aboue those fewe fundameÌ„talles may be false aÌ„d consequentlie nothing nothing at all in matter of faith is certaine but onelie those fewe fundamentalles Why then may not the rest of deuinitie yea all the rest of the scripture be false and why may not old damned heresies howsoeuer in the primitiue tyme abhorred be true If you offer to answere that you â—â—owe certainlie those things to be false and the rest of the scripture to be true I replie that you doe either pretend to know this by the spiritte and therby you admitte what before in your distinctioÌ„ you denied or you pretend to know it by your witte and then you entangle your selfe more in in the bryers for how will you make it euident that your witte cannot erre in these matters if all other wittes might haue erred 55. Hauing lighted here on the consideration of the fonde esteeme you haue of your owne witte aboue the world I begin to see that you affect a place farre aboue the qualitie of your person though this disorder in affection be in a manner secrette from your selfe You iudge and determine controuersies in matters not fundamentall as you speake and this men see aÌ„d your forwardnes herein hath enforced me to this answeare Now you take this office of determining these controuersies froÌ„ the Church as wee haue seene oft before aÌ„d if you would acknowledge it to be there I neede write no more of this matter This throne was high but you affect a higher yet which I shew for either in this matter of determining these controuersies you giue place to the Spiritt as to the iudge or you doe not if you doe the Spirittes holie assistance is exteÌ„ded further then to your fundamentalles if you doe not you sitte in the throne aÌ„d iudge for you determine them against vs. Let Christians tell me now whether you vsurpe the place or not 57. Sixtlie your errour is fuÌ„dameÌ„tall 6. Confirmâ— therfore the opposite which the Churche beleeue this a fundamentall truth And consequentlie in your prâ—ciples you must coÌ„fesse that she doth not erre in it for you say she erreth not in fuÌ„dameÌ„talls That your errour is fundameÌ„tall I prooue because that errour is fundamentall which is the ground of infinite errours but yours is the grouÌ„d of infinite errours because it takes away the certaiÌ„tie froÌ„ all Gods word and all deuinitie those fewe pointes onelie excepted which you call fundamentall 58. Moreouer to touch your fundamentalles also 7. Confirm It takes away all certaintie in them first because you leaue noe meanes to knowe which they be and secondlie because you leaue noe meanes to know they be diuinelie reuealed if it were knowne which in particular they al were for the authoritie of the Church proposeth equallie the whole Scripture and therfore if it sufficeth for any chapter or point it sufficeth for euery chapter and euerie point And the Spiritte of God did equallie direct the writer in all and it is Gods word all and therfore if the Spiritts direction or Gods authoritie serue to warrant some it serues to warrant all and if it be not able to warrant all it is vnable to warrant any at all 59. You thinke I haue done now but harke further Your assertion doth scandalize the Christian world if it may be scandalized for you take away all certaintie from the word of God in all pointes and partes but some twelue propositions which you call fundamentall 8. Confirm denying that there is at all any meanes to know certainlie that the rest is Gods word This I proue and I take the Gospell of S. Iohn or to declare it more fullie I take all the Bible and argue thus Either the Spiritte of God doth assist his Church to know certainlie that all in the Bible ouer and aboue your fuÌ„dameÌ„tall pointes is the word of God or it doth not Make your choise If it doth not there is no way to know certainely that it is the word of God for men of themselues and without Gods assistance all might erre especiallie in obscure matters as those are and in this especiallie which is to know whether God spake those wordes or noe If it doth the field is ours for euerie thing there is not one of the fundamentalles 60. The same argumente may be made of the sense of any place for either the place is fundamentall and such are fewe by your accompt or the place is not fundamentall and then excluding the assistance of the Spiritte you haue noe waie to be assured of the sense 61. Let vs oÌ„ to the triall of this argumeÌ„t OpeÌ„ your Bible turne to the first Chapter of Genesis and reade the first verse In the begining God created heaueÌ„ and earth Of this verse I demauÌ„d eight things First whether you be certaine that it is the word of God and how SecoÌ„dlie whether it be a fundamentall place or be not Thirdlie how you doe know certainlie that it is or that it is not fundamentall Fourthlie whether there be meanes to knowe certainlie the sense if neede require Fiftlie what are the meanes which may assure men of the sense Sixtlie whether there be any meanes to knowe certainlie whether in these words be more literall seÌ„ses theÌ„ one Seuenthlie whether the assistance of the Spiritte be or be not necessarie to the certaine knowledge or assurance of these things Eightlie whether this assistance be promised to the Church or to others out of it as to Heretiques and pagans These eight things I demaund about that verse and when you
is your ignorance in the manner 67. Knowe therefore secondlie that two waies a mā may beleeue all which the Church teacheth to be true One waie is by acknowledging each point of her doctrine in particular because the Spirit of God in and by her doth auouch it and this faith is vnfoulded An other is by acknowledging in generall and as it were in grosse all to be true which the Church doth teach not descending into the particular consideration of each and this is implicite or infolded faith because in it are infolded all the particulars which the Church doth teach 68. By this distinction of vnfoulded and infoulded faith you now know my meaning and it is this That the faith of all Catholikes both learned ād vnlerned late ād aūciēt is not equallie vnfoulded but yet is all one because that is infolded in ones faith which is vnfoulded with an other And thus a man who reades the Scripture and still doth increase in diuine knowledge learning dailie more and more is of the same religion and the same faith all the while Thus are the people ād their pastors of the same religion though the pastors knowe and beleeue more in particular then the clownes euer heard of Thus was S. Augustine and his mother Monica of one religion though she knewe not all the deuinitie or poīts of faith or Scripture in particular which he knewe Thus were the Corinthians and S. Paul thus are wee and the old Fathers the Fathers and the Apostles of the same religiō and thus is the later Church and the primitiue vnited in faith Because nothing is generallie beleeued now which was not then generallie beleeued though now something be more vnfolded in the generall beleefe of the communitie I saie nothing of some eminent men of those tymes then was by the multitude beleeued in particular or vnfolded then and something might haue bene then vnfolded which is not so commonlie knowne at this tyme. And no doubt but the Apostles knewe more in particular then mē doe nowe 69. By the same doctrine you may vnderstād howe the Catholiques in the whole body frō the Apostles to this daie though infinite haue bene all of one religion and the same with vs notwithstāding that each clowne knewe not all in particular which the learned did yea notwithstāding many learned knewe not all in particular And the reason is because in this principle I beleeue as the Church and followe her iudgment in matter of faith each had ALL whether he were learned or vnlearned and euerie Catholique did this and he who did it not was no Catholique 70. You thinke peraduenture that no two are exactlie of the same religiō vnles their faith be equallie distinct in obiect and vnfolded equallie which conceipt if it were true none were of the same religion with the Apostles in their tyme nor with the holie Fathers in theirs who beleeued not distinctlie and in particular as many points as they did which is a grosse errour in Christianitie and makes as many religions allmost as men Are you in your parish all of one religion or not if you are then by your rule who cannot abide implicite faith each old wife and yonge girle knowes as much in particular in the Bible and Deuinitie as your selfe or if they doe not I praie you tell me how they be exactlie of the same religion with you I knowe you will runne to fundamentalls but the shift will not serue because agreement in fundamentalls in your sense doth not suffize to the exact agreement in religion for wee and you be not of one religiō as all the world knowes and yet you saie that wee disagree not in fundamētalls and indeede there are infinite waies to erre against Faith otherwise he that did obstinatelie denie all the Bible and euerie verse of it excepting those onelie wherin is one of your fundamentalls which fundamētalls as you recon them are verie fewe and contained in the Creede with baptisme and the supper he I saie who did obstinatelie this were no Heretique but a man of your religion exactlie howsoeuer he be detested by the Christian world 71. Hauing declared the reason whie Catholiques are all of one religion by reason of their common vnion in one vniuersall principle containing their particular consent in the rest as occasion doth require to which generall principle they are all moued by the words and promise of Iesus Christ it is not amisse now to looke about for the originall cause why Heretiques are not all of one religion since they resolue all or pretend to resolue their faith into the Scripture or the Spirit I neede not goe farre to finde it out for it is knowne by the definition of an Heretique He is a man who makes his owne election by his priuate iudgment in matter of religion And thence it is that hauing cast of Church authoritie ād putt his owne witt in place to iudge each takes where and what he likes and their iudgments being diuers they take diuers things and expound diuerslie 74. Neither doth the scripture serue the turne in this case first because there is disagreement which is Scripture which cause must be first determined by some iudge and this iudge to each Heretick is his owne witt Secōdlie it is obscure ād therefore there is infinite varietie in guessing at the meaning of it as wee see by the experience of many hundred yeares and in this case likewise each Heretique doth adore his owne iudgment As for the spirit that of God is not among Heretiques but in the Church as I haue prooued since therfore they are not the Church and their Spirit opposite it followes that it is another and that erroneous And by the mulplicitie of iudgments and contradictions among them selues it appeares euidentlie that they are many and no meruaile since each crowcheth vnto his owne since each hath his Maozim within himselfe This therfore is the reason whie Arians Nestorians Lutherans c. though they be all against the Catholique be not of one religion among them selues 73. Neither would the consequence be good if you should argue thus Luther receaues the letter of Scripture and Caluin receaues the letter of Scripture therefore Luther and Caluin are of one Religion it doth not hold I say since they receaue not the same sense nor are vnited in any one common meane to receaue it And were the argument good it would prooue Caluinists and Arians to be of the same Religion since each receaue the letter 74. Hence it comes allso that all Heretiques cannot haue one definition but that euery one is to be defined according to the points he doth hold in particular because of his difference from others in the sense though perhaps he admitte the letter with others And in taking this sense he is not bounded by any authoritie common to him and to other Heretiques but onelie by his owne will and conceit Since therefore there is difference amonge Heretiques and that this
Pastors in it euer if that were the mysticall body of Christ for Christ appointed such till all meete Edantorigines EcclesiaruÌ„ suaruÌ„ euoluaÌ„t ordinem Episcoporum suorum ita per Successiones ab enitio decurientem vt primus ille Episcopus aâ—qâ—e ex Apostolis vel Apostolicis viris qui tameÌ„ cuÌ„ Apostolis perâ—euerauerint habuerit auctorem antecessoreÌ„ Hoc enim modo Ecclesiae Apostolicae sensus suos deferunt Tert. Praescript c. 32. And you must not aske them for they will shew you none but laie persons Let vs know what Councelles they haue kept and where what Nations they haue conuerted vnto Christ and by whom what Sainctes and Martyrs haue ben among them what Churches they haue erected what Heretickes they haue condemned and where and how and with what Nations and Princes they haue communicated and bring good Euidence to prooue it If this be the true Church conceale her not God is not ashamed of his Church if these people be the companie of holie ones let vs see their actions and good works If there were a continual succession of such men let vs see their monuments otherwise wee haue noe reason to beleeue that there were indeed any such in the tyme betwixt Waldo and our Sauiours ascension which are more then a thousand yeares If you will haue vs beleeue there were such all that tyme bring your proofe Lett vs know I saie and should repeate this question oft least you wittinglie doe forget it where they were from tyme to tyme what they did who were of their communion or tooke notice at least of theÌ„ as frindes or foes what writers they had what Bishops what Councels and this from age to age till you come to the Apostles daies The questioÌ„ is cleere the matter is of fact the thing of moment You haue bene searching these huÌ„dred yeares all papers and libraries and scrowles where is your answeare where is your euidence 6. If this were all donne which will be donne when tyme runnes backward and when euery thing whatsoeuer any minister for a shift can desire or imagine may be fouÌ„d euery where there would remaine yet a further taske and that were to shew that this religion of the Waldenses 2. Book 1. Ch. were vniuersall in regard of place or Nations But I need not vrge further for you are grauelled in the very first If you should offer to name Hus or Wickleffe I would proceed after the same manner with either of them and demaund proofe of their continuall succession euer since our Sauiour Christ did ascend and of their communion with Nations to verifie the Prophecies of the Old Testament and our Sauiours intention in the New and of their agreement with you in all pointes I would demaund euidence of all this of VVickleffe of Hus or of you for theÌ„ and desire to see the face of that Church her Actes and Monumentes her VVriters her Pastors c. And this with great reason before I beleeue it and embrace the communion of it and venture my soule in it because that which I demauÌ„d is hetherto vnknowne not to me onlie but to all the whole world THE SECOND CHAPTER That no satisfaction is giuen by recourse to our Church 7. THe nakednes of your cause appearing manifestlie thorough the beggarie of the VValdenses you would hide your selues faine in our Church and therefore flinging of that poore shift as vnsufficient you saie next that your succession hath ben continued by vs. But you may not rest heere The thing which wee demaund is a continuall succession of Protestantes that is of men professing the religion now currant in England Bring your euidence that in euery age there were some of these men VVee are not of your religion wee haue openlie condemned it as hereticall in the Councell of Trent and you doe persecute ours in England condemning many pointes of faith which wee beleeue so that if you take vs to continue you to the primitiue Church and to the Apostles this continuation is not Protestant wheras a Protestant continuation is the thing wee demaund Goe not to fast but consider well what heere wee haue in hand I demaund a continuall succession of men of your Religion not of ours you are to giue accompt of your owne predecessors not of mine of Protestants not of Papists You must shewe your owne Cards and not mine if doe meane to winne the game Wee doe frequent the Masse beleeue vnbloodie Sacrifice adore the sacred Hoste pray to Saincts worship Angells beleeue a Purgatorie pray for the deade honoure Images Wee lay open our consciences to our Priests and acknowledge in them power to Absolue vs and a diuine precept obliging vs to Confesse Wee beleeue that our Sauiour doth impart vnto the reconciled power to redeeme by good and penall works the temporall paine due to sinne and that the Church hath power by way of Indulgence to release it Wee beleeue Traditions Merit Iustification by works Obseruation of the commandements and works of Supererogation Vowes and a fuller Canon of the Scripture then you doe In our Hierarchie wee haue Bishops Priests Deacons Subdeacons and others all which in substance you haue not but an outward appearaÌ„ce onely Wee acknowledge in the Pope a superioritie ouer the other Bishops in the Church in Generall approued Councells an Infallibilitie and in each Member of our Communitie an Obligation of conformitie in iudgment to the iudgment and Decrees of these Councells In these and such other things essentiall to our Religion wee are distinct from you and therefore it is childish to name vs for men of your Religion It is true that you pretend to beleeue some things wich wee doe as the Trinitie and Incarnation and some parts of Scripture Neuerthelesse in other things within the compasse of diuine faith and religion wee are distinct as by the premises it doth appeare All Heretiques that euer were beleeued somethings with the Church but that sufficed not to make them of the same Religion with it or among themselues Iewes beleeue somethings which Christians doe so doe the Turkes and the Naturalists who beleeue a God notwithstanding Catholiques Iewes Heretiques Turkes and Naturalists are not ALL of ONE RELIGION Horses and Asses are liuing Creatures but not of the same species with a man Lutherans and Caluinistes are not Catholiques The Pope is no Protestant the Bishops of our Church are not of your communion our Priests are consecrated to say Masse our People beleeue as their Pastors All abhorre your Heresie and detest your Schisme Your Bookes are against our faith your lawes against the exercise of our Religion You accuse vs of Idolatrie Superstition Errour Heresie Name others name YOVR OWNE and a CONTINVALL SVCCESSION of them name not vs. Your Religion in that it is distinct from ours is made vp partly of newe deuised stuffe partly of old ragges left vnto you from the torne coates of Iouinian Donatus Aerius Vide Coll. R. Chalc. c. 23.
Nouatus and such other found in ould nastie monuments If vppon her now for pittie you will pull the Waldesian habitte spokeÌ„ of in the former chapter the beggars coate I meane represeÌ„ting with partie coloured patches the peeces of her coÌ„stitution and lace it with the ragges you find in Illyricus it will be very trimme But how soeuer you may finde some ragges in Antiquitie it is still euident that after a busie search made by all your deuines into libraries and recordes you are not able to prudence a continuall succession of that kinde of men wherof you are or of that whereof VValdo was from waldo vpwardes to the Apostles I doe not saie a Catholique or vniuersall succession of them but a succession onlie though neuer so small you haue not in euery age a Nation nor one Diocese which were verie litle nor so much such is your beggarie as one man Much more vnpossible is it for you to produce a succession Catholique or vniuersall in that sort that in euerie age and euerie yeere since the Apostles it hath ben common to many Nations which is the condition of the true Church of God 9. You answeare againe and learnedlie as you thinke that in Fundamentall pointes the Romans were Protestant and therfore are well alleaged Are the negatiue propositions in the Bible Gods words aÌ„d de fide or wâ—ll you haue them all blotted out to satisfie the demaund though they were otherwise in not-Fundamentall Or as others cut out the distinction in Affirmatiues they were yours in Negatiues they were not VVhich distinction is laid in the way to catch woodcockes but hindereth not the course of our argument For the Roman Catholique holding those pointes which he doth is noe Protestant nor of the religion currant now a dayes among you And the Protestant is no Roman Catholique his Religion is not that which is currant in Italie in Spaine and other places vnited to the See of Rome wherfore in assigning Roman Catholiques you do not assigne a Protestant succession wheras the thing demaunded is a Protestant succession If I had ben to dispute with the VValdenses in Bohemia I would haue exacted the like proofe for the Religion currant among them that is as I haue tould you many tymes a companie of men of the religion currant now in England wherof some haue succeded others and this must haue bene euer since the Apostles daies if the successioÌ„ be continuall since that tyme. Wee doe not Demaund of you whether wee haue à succession in our Church that wee demaund of you is a succession of your owne of Protestantes not of Papistes of men professing the religion which you doe Shewe this succession produce your euidence to prooue that such men haue bene in all ages and then wee will examine your fundamentalles giuing you time till then for to thinke how many and which they be for assure your selues the common people doe perceaue your vnsufficiencie in answering to the demaund which you cannot flie without crossing and contradicting your owne selues For I aske you is a Papist a Protestant in religion you answeare no. I demaund againe giue me the Protestant succession the Church Protestant of former ages You answeare the Papistes succession was the Protestant succession and the Papisticall Church was the Church Protestant By which answeare graunting and affirming the Papisticall succession and Church to be the Protestant succession and Church you doe graunt and affirme a Papist to be a Protestant which before you had denied and still doe They see also that a Pelagian a Luciferian an Arian or any other hereticke may defend himselfe as you doe for each of them held the true religioÌ„ in part each held some affirmatiues and was negatiue as you speake in other thinges and each pretended that he did not mistake in fundamentalles 10. And wheras you say that you erre not in fuÌ„dameÌ„talles I answeare first that you speake at raÌ„dome aÌ„d by coÌ„iecture mearlie for to this daie you know not which all the fundamentalles are and therfore cannot be certaine whether you beleeue euerie one of them or doe not I answeare secondlie that the point of iustification is the ground and the soule of your religion and you mistake in that and contradict the scripture directlie in it and therefore erre fundamentallie You teach also that the Catholique Church may erre in matters of diuine faith which is a grosse fundamentall errour You denie the reall presence and holie sacrifice in the Masse which is likewise a fundamentall errour And by these and such like you are diuided from the Catholique and so fundamentallie different and diuided Neither is it any matter whether these and the like erroures be expressed in propositions affirmatiue or negatiue an Athyest by reason of one negation is of No Religion as they may be either way for by negatiue errours a man may be an Hereticke Turke Iew or Athiest according to the verities which in his errours he doth contradict To conclude it is cleare that these are shiftes to delaie tyme and to deceaue fooles for the thing wee demaund is a Catalogue of Protestant men such as in England you are of men holding those affirmatiues together with those negatiues which you do hould of men consenting with you in your religion and beleefe entirelie The like argument I would make against the Waldenses Hussites or any other for a man may beleeue the Trinity or the Creede with others and yet differ in ReligioÌ„ as we and you do whether the thinges be called fundamentall or be not called so for wee care not how you call theÌ„ of men which without anie tricke distinction paring of or adding to theÌ„ may flatlie be said to be of the religion ow curraÌ„t there in England of such finallie as being looked into thoroughlie and beheld round about are absolutlie Protestantes or men of your religion Produce the Catalogue of these men let your euidence come to light 11. Your men in the begining wanting companie and disliking the religion of the Waldenses and Hussittes would faine haue shaked handes with the Grecians and made an offer but they were instantlie refused and shaken of Censura Orientalis Ecclesiae as the world doth well know by their Censure in print euerie where You haue tould mee since and vnskillfullie that the Ethiopians are of your religion being demauÌ„ded proofe because it is against histories and against their Liturgies which are extant you are able to bring none neither can I imagine to what purpose you should runne thither vnles it were to get an out side which might keepe colour with the inside of your Church I remember your doctrine is that her soule is euer stained with actuall and Originall sinne and that all her actions are fouled in the same puddle to which doctrine of your owne I may adde by experieÌ„ce that she hath a foule mouth if you will needes haue all this walk in a black out side too you may goe
all sufficieÌ„t These two you must distinguish the first is here affirmed the second is not There must be meanes to knowe which is Scripture which Booke which Chapter which verse and to know the sense of it And herein wee must be directed by the Spirit of the Church Wee must take the Scripture from her hands and the meaning of it from her mouth Harke what the same Apostle saith in an other place 2. Thess 2.15 Hold the Traditions you haue learned whether it be by word or by our Epistle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But of this you shall heare more here after It is sufficient here that no place of Scripture doth contradict the doctrine of the Church and your labour to prooue it is all vaine for that Spirit which directed the writers of Gods word doth allso direct the Church to the sense of it and therefore it is vnpossible for any man to finde Opposition betwixt the Church and Gods word 34. Stay now let vs looke on the contradictions all together in could blood before we goe The first God forbids to giue soueraigne honour to any but to him selfe Papists say an inferior and relatiue honour may be giuen to the pictures of Christ and his Saincts The secoÌ„d Antichrist is opposite vnto and extolled aboue all that is called God and sits in the Temple of God shewing himselfe as if he were God Papists The Pope is Christs Vicar here vppon earth and Pastor of his Churth The third The Eucharisticall bread is the participation of the body of our lord Papists it is not the participation of bakers breade but of the true body of Christ in forme of breade The fourth If I pray in a toÌ„gue my Spirit prayeth but my minde is without fruite Papists It is not necessarie that Priests say Masse in the vulgar tongue The fift Abraham beleeued God that he should be Father of many Nations and it was imputed to him to iustice Papists Iustifying faith is not that whereby N. N. beleeues his sinnes are forgiuen him The sixt The Apostles were commanded all to drinke the cuppe Papists The lay people are not commanded to drinke the cuppe The seuenth All Scripcure is profitable to teach c that the man of God may be perfect instructed to euery good worke Papists Traditions are to be receaued the Scripture is not by itselfe all sufficient This is the substance of that which hath bene here discussed Good logicians be modest or go peripatize with your Aristotle some where els I sit and you stand in the same schoole are contradictories according to the rule by which our nimble Masons do builde their newe Church but A man is iustified by works and not by faith onely A man is not iustified by works but by faith onely are not contradictorie though you meane workes done by grace and in grace a litle newe morter may dawbe them both together for if ye marke the one of them is true in the iudgment of S. Iames the Apostle and the other is true in the iugdment of Mr. Iohn Caluin and so they are not secundum idem THE FIFT CHAPTER Other places of Scripture are answered 35. BEing past the monstrouse Argument which thought to affright me wich the multitude of his heades I was going on to cite Scripture against you but an other Chimaera meets me in the Way Iohn White in his preface to the way had made his bragge that ProtestaÌ„ts haue Scripture in manifest places free from all ambiguitie on their side And being to make this good in his Defence I Whites Defense â— 8. n. 4. hath pickt out such places as he thought of most aduantage and most cleere Parte of them are the same with some of those I haue allready spoken of in the former Chapter The rest I will runne ouer briefly beare with me if I be longer in this point then you desire The first An Angell would not be adoared by S. Iohn but refused it saying see thou doe not Apoc. 1â— 10 22 v. 9â— I aÌ„ thy fellowe seruaÌ„t adore God The Apostle againe another tyme fell downe to adore the Angell and it was againe answeared as before Answ It is cleere by this text that the Angell refused to be adored by S. Iohn and this wee beleeue But it is not said here that it is ill to adore an Angell yea in the iudgment of S. Iohn it was conuenient and being told of it he still beleeued it to be conuenient for he did offer notwithstanding the first refusall to doe it the second tyme. The place therefore is against you Neither is there any difficultie in the matter for S. Iohn might well offer it and the Angell considering how deare the Apostle was to the Sonne of God and lord of Angells and how greate his Apostolicall dignitie was might well refuse it So v. Bede S. Anselme and others vppon this place Luke 17.10 36. The second When you haue done all things that are commanded you say wee are vnprofitable seruants wee haue done that which wee ought to doe This is brought to exclude all merite from our actions donne by and in grace But it comes to short first because here is speach onely of things commanded Matth. 19.21 â— Cor. 7. v. v. 25.38.40 now there are other actions not commanded and by those at leaste wee may merite notwithstanding this sentence Secondly God by creation is Lord of all his creatures and men thereby are naturallie bound to serue him 2. Pet. â—â— Iohn 1.12 By grace men are made partakers of the diuine nature and are sonnes of God and he their Father Wherefore if as seruants they could not merite as by nature indeed they cannot as children they might Seruants are vnprofitable if their masters profit come not from their seruice howsoeuer they may be peraduenture good husbands for theÌ„ selues And this place hath nothing to the contrary Thirdly our labour is vnprofitable to God our lord and Master for he is neuer the better for that wee doe being infinitelie happie in him selfe but it may be profitable to our selues and this is not here denied 37. The 3. Blessed are the dead which die in our lord from hence forth now saith the Spirit that they rest from their labours for their works follow them This place is brought against Purgatorie or paines after this life Apoc. 14.13 suffered by such as depart in the grace of God But it is so farre from being cleere to this purpose S. Aug. l. 20 Ciuit. c. 9. that it rather helpes our cause Some with S. Augustine vnderstand the place of Martyrs and Martyrs instantlie goe to heauen wherefore in that way there is no difficultie S. Ansel vppon this place in the words Others with S. Anselme interprete from hence that is from the Resurrection or generall Iudgment and they are grounded in the discourse of the Chapter This way hath no difficultie neither for all immediately after that tyme are
in blisse S. Th. Aq. in 4. d. 21. q. 1. a. 1. q. 1. ad 1. S. Thomas doth distinguish working in way of merite from suffering in way of purgation and graunts that such as are deade in our lord are in securitie of their saluation and therefore happie and do rest from the laboure of merit that labour is past they did many good works in their lyfe tyme and those follow them they neede no more Ob. Phil. 3. 12. Aus ibi v. 15. But some of them neede purging and therefore they may suffer and be punished The soule departing out of this world and going to the Tribunal of Gods iustice is attended by her works and according to them receaues her sentēce Wee must all be manifested before the iudgment seate of Christ that euery one may receaue the proper things of the body ◠Cor. 5.10 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Cor. 3 v. 13.14.15 The forme of the last iudgment you haue Mat 20. v. 31.32 c. consider the respect it hath there to VVorks Lut. 22.25 according as he hath donne either good or euil The worke of euery one shall be manifest for the day of our lord will declare because it shall be reuealed in Fire and the worke of euery one what kind it is the Fire shall try If any mās worke abide which he built there vppon on the foundation Christ he shall receaue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Reward If any mans worke burne he shall suffer Detriment but himselfe shall be saued yet so as by fire 38. The fourth The kings of the gentiles ouer rule them but you not so cited against our doctrine of the Primacie I Answ First the Primacie was not then instituted Io. 21.18 but afterwards and therefore if our Sauiour had said that none was first at that tyme it were not against vs. Secondly if you presse the words they will make for vs and against you they wil prooue one greater then the rest v 26. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he that is the greater among you let him become as the yonger and he that is leader as the waiter Which precept doth suppose a greater and a leader among them Thirdlie the sense you make would take Bisshops allso from the Church for of them the Scripture saith likewise that they must not ouer rule the Clergie 1. Pet. 5.3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 20.28 and the word in Greeke is the same with that whereby S. Matth. doth expresse the ruling which you do vrge and yet you know that the holie Ghost hath placed Bysshops to rule the Church Fourthlie our Sauiour doth not say that among the Apostles none shall be Superiour but he saith onelie that it must not be so amonge them in matter of gouerment and subiection as it is amonge the heathen Princes and this wee graunt Those Princes ordinarily domineere imperiouslie and regard not so much the good of their subiects as their owne priuate ends This doth not consist with Christian discipline and is here forbidden Lastlie the Greeke text of S. Mathew doth take away all apparence of doubt in this point Mat. 20.25.26 the words are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Princes of the Gentiles domineere ouer them and ouerrule them and they that are the greater exercise power against thē It shall not be so among you You know the power of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is here twise vsed turne your lexicon and reade there 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Dominium exerceo aduersus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dominantur aduersus eos do beare rule against them put then all together ād you will be ashamed of your owne argument 39. The fift 1. Tim. 3 2◠brought for mariage of Priests It behoueth a Bysshop to be the husband of one wife Answ Is the meaning thinke you a Bysshop of necessitie must haue a wife or he that hath or hath had more then one is not fit to be made Bysshop If you will haue the first to be the sense you are contrarie not onely to the practise of our Church and of the Apostles but allso to your owne fellowes and are a Religion by your selfe If you thinke the second be the sense it makes nothing against vs S. Ierom. Chrysost Oecumen Theoph. wee make none Bisshops that are bigami that haue had more wiues then one such mē are not fit for so sacred an office There is indeed a controuersie betwixt vs and you Vide Cocc t. 2. l. 8. art 6. 7. Whether it be lawfull for a Priest or Bysshop to take a wife You affirme wee denie it And the Apostle doth not contradict vs he doth not say it is lawfull for a Bysshop to take a wife wich was to be showne in Scripture 1. Tim. 4.3 40. The sixt Some in the laste tymes shall come commanding or persuading to abstaine from meates which God created to receaue with thanks giuing Answ There were men to come that would forbid to eate meats esteeming them vncleane Epiphan haeres 66. Aug. haeres 46. and created or made by an ill cause such were the Manichees who did hold there were two prime causes one good the other bad both eternall both Gods And flesh they said the bad God created Aug. l. 30. con Faust c. 5. 6. The Apostle speaketh of these men as S. Augustine and others well obserue and it is manifest by the reason in the text whereby the Apostle doth impugne the foresaid men for saith he euery creature of God is good v. 4. Which proposition is euident in it selfe and opposite directlie to the ground of the foresaid Heretiques But this doth nothīg concerne vs who do abstaine some tymes by the example of our Sauiour and by the command of our Mother the Church Vide Coc◠tom 2. lib. 3. a. 8. 9. 10. not for that reason of the Manichees but for other good ends 41. The seuenth Rom. 1◠◠let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers for there is no power but from God Answ wee teach the same as you see by all our commentaries vppon this place But what your Master Caluin thinks of the busines the world knowes I referre you to the Preface of the Protestants Apologie to Monarchomachia c. 42. Apoc. 17.18 There is an other out of the Apocalyps to prooue the Pope Antichrist The wordes are the woman which thou sawest is the greate cittie which hath king done ouer the kings of the earth Answ The mysterie heere spoken of is so profound and darke that you can finde no bottom to build vppon But to endeuour vppon those Hills whereon the womā sittes be they mysticall v. 9. all one with the Heades and Kings or materiall to raise a Fort to batter the See of Sainct Peeter erected and established by Iesus Christ is Antichristian The Cittie some interprete mystically thinking it to be the confused multitude of the Wicked which is the Cittie
4 ch because euery man holds what he lists and doth assume to himselfe the iudgment of controuersie in Religion I meane here to name only your two Masters the late EuaÌ„gelists aÌ„d reformers forsooth of the Church Luther and Caluin and to cite them in this busines including you as farre as you consent with them for I intend in this Chapter to extend my former scope a litle and to shewe more generally the opposition of ProtestaÌ„tes to the Scripture Of Protestantes for I speake now of the whole body such as it is some be Lutherans some be Caluinists in some things the Lutherans oppose the Scripture more then Caluinists in other things the Caluinists more then the Lutherans in other both are opposite vnto Gods word When you are on that side which doth consent with vs theÌ„ my discourse doth not proceede against you yet then allso my argument holds in as much as it is confessedly true that in those points the Scripture is not against vs. If I say at any tyme you dissent from your masters whom I will name and admit that they and their Spirit of interpretation are contrarie to the Scripture you may interprete your selfe not to be included amongst them I speake vnto But my argument will runne on against you for all the rest of the points wherein you consent and agree with them which are allmost all in substance howsoeuer there may be some litle Difference about the manner If the Scripture affirme any thing absolutely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and you graunt it only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or with a limitation I goe on in such cases against you as opposite vnto the Scripture So in the points of single life keeping the commandements free-will as you expound your selues tradition diuine assistance and some other Likewise if you admit the words but vnderstand them improperly as in the matter of the reall presence priesthood absolution for in such cases your consent is but verball and vnder the words you conceale a different sense whereby the common * The state of the Question that it may not be vnderstooâ— WEE often ofsett purpose ouercloude with darknes things which are manifest wee impudently deny things false without shame wee auouch things plainely impious Wee propose as first principles of faith things orthodoxall wee condemne of Heresie Scriptures at our pleasure wee detort to our dreames Wee boast of Fathers When Wee will follow nothing lesse then their doctrine c. The Confesâ—ion of Zanchiuâ— a greate Protestant concerning the proceedingâ— of Protestant writers Doctors and pillars of that Church Ep. 10 〈◊〉 Sturm fine l. 7. 8. Miscell people are deceaued Of the Fathers authorities I meane the same If you admitte our doctrine plainely subscribe and along to the next if you do not then attend to the plaine sense of the Scripture which I produce Vide Coâ— lat doctrâ— Cath. Protest 〈◊〉 expressâ—â— Scripturâ— verâ—â—s 〈…〉 The obscuâ—â—st of those things which I am to propose is inuocation of Saincts yet you dare not abide â—he triall of that point by confessed testimonies of Antiquitie 46. Touching the honour giuen to some things in animate for the SaÌ„ctitie which they haue as reliques Crosse pictures c. you remember that it is relatiue proportionate vnto the Sanctitie not absolute as I tould you before This kinde of honour done to such things You do wholly condemne Debituâ—â— honorem venerâ—â—tionem c. Conâ— Trid. seâ—â— 25. in greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which word yoâ— haue inteâ—preted bâ— the â— Niâ— Coâ—â— in eâ— aâ—â—â—pp Calu. l. 1. Instit c. 11. 4. c. 9. Wee do giue it To contradict your generall deniall one example ouâ— of the Scriptere will serue because it is the same reason in the rest You esteeme the deade body of a Sainct more then common earth if therefore I shewe you that honour is in Scripture commanded to be giuen to the very ground in regard of relatiue sanctity you will admit that in this point it makes for vs against you In the third of Exodus our lord seeing that Moyses went forward to see he called him out of the bush Exod. 3. v. 4·5 Honour to the ground and said approach not hither loose thy shoes froÌ„ thy feete for the place whereon thou standest is holie ground Heere is command and example of honour donne to the ground in regard of relatiue sanctitie which it had And if the ground might haue a kinde of honour why not the dust and bones of Martyrs why not the Crosse whereon Christ suffered why not the place where he stood why not his picture wherein he is represented when Iosue was in the field of the cittie of Ierico he lifted vp his eies Ios 5. v. 13.14.15.16 and sawe a man standing against him holding a drawne sword and he went vnto him aÌ„d said art thou ours or our aduersaries who answeared No. But I am a prince of the hoast of our lord and now I come Iosue fell flat on the ground and adoring he said what speaketh my lord to his seruant loose VVee haue neede of a Mediator to Christ our Mediator S. Bern. serm sig magn saith he thy shoe from thy feete for the place wherein thou doest stand is holie And Iosue did as it was commanded him 47. Next concerning Saincts and Angells Though wee do not acknowledge them our Principall Mediators for the chiefe Mediator is Iesus Christ appar vide Cyrill l. 12. Thesaur c. 10. God and man Yet wee beleeue that their subordinate mediation to speak with S. Bernard and Intercession and prayers in particular for vs relying on the merites of our Sauiour are profitable to vs agreable to their happie estate and presidencie and conformable to the Scripture You say No. Calu. 1. instit c. 14. 3. c. 20. Christus solus populi vota ad Deum defert ibid. § 20. The Scripture The Angell of our lord said Zach. 1.12 See allso Dan. 10. Intercession O lord of hoasts how long wilt thou not haue mercie on Hierusalem and on the citties of Iuda with which thou hast bene angrie And in the Reuelation of S. Iohn The fower and twentie Seniours or Elders fell before the lambe Apoc. 5. v. 8 hauing euery one harpes and golden vialles full of odours which are the prayers of saincts This place doth prooue subordinate Intercession not to be iniurious to the mediation of Iesus Christ but to be included in the order which he hath serte Apoc. 4. v. 2. Consider further the circumstances of the vision to find out what persoÌ„s these Elders were Behold quoth S. Iohn there was a throne set in heauen v. 4. and vppon the the throne one sitting c. And rouÌ„d about the throne 24 thrones and vppon the thrones 24 Elders sitting cloathed about in white garments and on their heades crownes of gold If now you will haue me to beleeue that these Elders cloathed in white
an attire of a Apoc. 3. â— 4. saincts and crowned after the b 2. Ti. 4.8 victorie as it seemes with golden c Apoc. 14. v. 14. crownes aÌ„d sitting being now at d Ibid. v. 13. rest vppon thrones round about the throne of Christ in heauen are not saincts there raigning with Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * He that shall ouercome and keepe my works vnto the end I will giue him power 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ouer Nations so your selues turne it And he shall rule them with a rod of yron Apoc. 2. v. â—6 see Matt. 25. v. 21. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I will make ruler ouer many things ouer the earth or if wee must beleeue that the Saincts whose prayers they present be not holie men on earth you must bring not a guesse but a theologicall demoÌ„stration for it I was here to bring the letter and I stick to it and caÌ„not be remoued vnles you shew cleere Scripture for Tradition you looke not after against the seÌ„se I take it in aÌ„d that it be so iudged not by you for I esteeme not your iudgmeÌ„t but by the Catholique Church which is impossible as you knowe by that which she beleeueth in this point Obserue this for the next Angels offer prayers Apoc. 8. v. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 aÌ„d others after that I neede not repeate it Another Angel came and stood before the alter hauing a golden censaâ— and there were giuen to him many incenses that he should giue of the prayers of all saincts vppon the alter of gold which is before the throne of God And the smoke of the incenses of the prayers of the saincts ascended froÌ„ the hand of the Angell before God Thus for Angells and Saincts offering the prayers of the Church vnto God and in this is included essentiallie that they do take them after their intellectuall manner that is vnderstand them Heerevppon the Church doth call vppon them and so did the AuÌ„cient Fathers whose Testimony and Spirit might haue suffised for our example Wee beleeue allso that it is good to pray for the Deade You say no. Calu. 3. Inst c. 5. The Scripture It is a holy and behouefull cogitation to pray for the deade 2. Mac. 12.46 Prayer for the dead S. Aug. l. 8. de ciuit c. 36. that they may be released from their sinnes I said the scripture because to vse here S. Augustines words not my owne Tbe bookes of the Machabees not the Iewes but the Church esteemeth Canonicall And what Spirit is to iudge which is scripture which not you shall haue examined hereafter at large 48. Concerning the distinction of works into some that are commanded others that are not which distinction you reiect Wee beleeue that there are some works not commanded yet proposed by way of Counsell for attaining of greater perfection You say no Matth 9. v. 21. Euangelicall Luth. de Vot monast Caluin 4. Inst ca. 13. The scripture If thou wilt he perfect goe sell the tbings which thou hast and giue to the poore and thou shalt haue treasure in heauen and come followe me Counsells 1. Cor. 7. v. 25. Ibid. v. 40. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And the Apostle Concerning virgines I haue not a commandement from our lord but counsell I giue And againe She the vnmaried shall be more blessed if she remaine so according to my Counsell Wee beleeue that single life consecrated vnto God is better then wedlocke You say No. Luth. Serm. de Matr. Caluin in 1. Cor. 7. The scripture He which ioyneth his virgin in matrimonie doth well and he which ioyneth her not doth better 1. Cor. 7. v. 38. Wee beleeue that Religious profession vnder vowe is according to the word of God Single life Isay 19.21 Vowes You say No. Luth de Vot Monast Calu. 4. Inst c. 13. The scripture They shall vowe vowes to our lord and shall paie them And we beleeue they are in conscience bound to pay their vowes You say no. Luth. Cal. cit The scripture Vowe ye and render to our lord God Psal 75.12 Let me note here by the way that you discouer your Church not be Gods since it contemnes these things which God foretould would be in his and approoues as good and if the thing were to be tried by the Spirit in any man any man of iudgment would rather acknowledge the Spirit of S. Bennet and S. Francis which God by miracles recorded by saincts allso hath witnessed to be from him then your spirit vnderstanding this scripture oppositelie to their spirit 49. As for the commandements Wee beleeue that he which will attaine to euerlastiÌ„g life must keepe them Mat. 19.17 Psal 14.2 CommaundemeÌ„ts kept You say no. Luth. in 3. Gal. Calu. in 5. Act. The scripture If thou wilt enter into life keepe the commandements lord who shall dwell in thy tabernacle or who shall rest in thy holie hill he that walketh without Spot and worketh iustice You say they are intollerable Lut. de Libert Christ Calu. Antidot Conc. Trid. sess 6. c. 12. wee say no. The scripture His commandements are not heauie wee beleeue that they may be and haue bene obserued 1. Io. 5.3 You say No. Luth. in 4. Gal. calu in 3. Rom. The scriptute Zacharie and Elizabeth were both iust before God Luk. 16. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psal· 18. v. 8.12 walking in all the commandements and iustifications of our lord without blame The lawe of our lord is immaculate coÌ„uerting soules c. the iudgments of our lord be true for thy seruaÌ„t keepeth them in keeping them there is much Reward And of King Iosias the scripture saith that he returned to our Lord in all his hart Psal 118.55 4. Kings 23. v. 5. and in all his sowle and in all his power according to all the law of Moyses Thow sawest a fewe names in Sardis which haue Not defiled their garmeÌ„ts aÌ„d they shall walke with me in whites for they are worthy Apoc. 3.4 I must adde one more for your coÌ„fort who bragge that you knowe God better and are more familiarlie admitted to his secret counsells and dearer to the spirit then other men 1. Io. 2 v. 3.4 c. In this wee knowe that wee haue knowne him if wee obserue his commandements He that sayeth he knoweth him ProtestaÌ„ts liers the Apostles kept it Io. 17.6 and keepeth not his commandements is a lier and the truth is not in him but he that keepeth his word in him in Verie Deede the charitie of God is perfited in this wee knowe that wee be in him 50 Wee beleeue that there is iustice inhereÌ„t in men Dan. 6.22 Iustice inhereÌ„r 1. Io. 3.7 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is such in the sight and iudgment of God You say No. Luth. in 3. Gal. calu· in 8. Rom. Daniel in the scripture Before him God iustice hath bene found in me He that doth iustice is iust
fellowes in words admit a reall Presence being forced there vnto by the arguments of our men yet they allso when they are lookt into are essentially Caluinists in this point beleeuing no more that Christ is in the signes or in the formes of breade and wine then a mans lands are in the Chest where his writings be or in his fathers will and testament whereby they were made his which is VVhites example VVee beleeue that in the Eucharist vnder the accidents of breade and wine there is the bodie and blood of Iesus Christ You say No. So Iohn Caluins schoole Our sauiour in the scripture This is my bodie Mat 26. v. 27.28 Reall Presence This is my bloode VVee beleeue that the breade which our Sauiour gaue was in substaÌ„ce flesh the verie same with that which was giuen on the crosse for the redemption of the world You say No it was not in substance flesh but plaine breade Calu. schoole Our Sauiour in the scripture Io. 6 51. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c Luk. 22.19 The breade which I will giue is my flesh which I will giue for the life of the world This is my bodie which is giuen for you VVe beleeue that the drinke in the Cuppe in forme of wine was shed for vs and therefore was in substance bloode and not wine You say No it was meere wine Calu. Schoole The Scriprure Luk. 22.20 Io. 6.55 This is the chalice the newe Testament in my bloode 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which Chalice is shed for you My flesh is meate indeede and my blood is drinke indeede VVe beleeue that the Church is to eate the flesh of our Sauiour and to drinke his bloode You say No. Calu. schoole The Scripture Vnles you eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his bloode you shall not haue life in you Wee beleeue that the ChristiaÌ„ church doth Sacrifice and offer vnto God publiklie an Oblation euery where You say No There is is no Sacrificing or offering of any publike OblatioÌ„ since Christ offered himselfe at Hierusalem on the crosse Luth. de for Mis pro Eccl. wit Calu. 4. Inst c. 18. The Scripture From the rising of the Sonne euen to the going downe Mà lae 111 OblatioÌ„ great is my name among the Gentiles and in â—uery place there is sacrificing and there is offered to my name a Cleane Oblation because my name is greate amonge the Gentiles saith the lord of hosts Is is prettie to see how you offer to interprete this place of your works as if they were the cleane Oblation here spoken of and opposed to the publick visible Sacrifices of the Iewes when as notwithstanding you teach and maintaine that all your works are fowle and impure Luth. de boâ— oper fol. 581. Gal. l. 1 de lib. arb p. 141. All your iustice or righteousnes as the cloath of a meÌ„strued woman all your fairest and best actioÌ„s mortall sinnes These forsooth are that which God himselfe esteemes a cleane Oblation These are the rare Sacrifice which could not be found amonge the Iewes Further wee beleeue that our Sauiour being a Priest according to the Order of Melchisedech Psal 109.4 Heb. 5.6 did offer his bodie and bloode after an vnbloody manner before his passion for his Church and for the remission of Sinnes And that he did ordaine it should be continued and frequented in the Church which is to offer and institute a Propitiatorie Sacrifice You say No. Luth. de Capt. Bab. Cal. 4. Inst c. 18. 1. Cor. 9. The Scripture This is my bodie which is giuen for you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is broken for you Do This. Luk. 22.19 1. Cor. 11.24 Mat. 26.28 Luk. 22.20 Propitiatorie Sacrifice This is my bloode of the newe Testament 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is shed for many vnto remission of Sinnes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which traÌ„slated word by word is This the chalice the newe Testament in my bloode which chalice is shed for you In which sentence the word signifying effusion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not accord with the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth blood but with the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mat. 26.28 Mar. 14.24 Luk. 22 20. and of the Body 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Luk. 22.19 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Cor. 11 24. which signifieth the Chalice as euery Syntaxian knowes whereby the sense is This the Chalice which chalice is shed for you And since you cannot exclude the tyme present because the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 imports it and all the Greeke texts of the Euangelists agree in it it is cleere that then before the passion at the last supper the chalice was shed for the Church and for remission of Sinnes by Iesus Christ a Priest according to the Order of Melchisedech And this wee call an vnblody and propitiatory Sacrifice Wee beleeue that vnder Iesus Christ our high Priest there are Priests in the newe Testament You say No. Luth. Abrog Mis pri Calu. 4. Inst c. 18. Isay 66. v. 19.20.21 Priests Episcopi Presbyteri propriè iam in Ecclesia vocantur Sacerdotes 8 Aug. li. 20 de Ciu. c. 10. The Scripture I will send of them that shall be saued to the Gentiles into the sea into Africke and Lydia into Italie and Greece to the Ilands far of c. And I will take of them to be Priests and Leuites saith our lord wee beleeue the Apostles and their successors were by Christs institution for a perpetuall memorie and representation of his death and passion to doe that which our Sauiour did at his last Supper that is as I haue declared by the Gospell to offer vnbloody Sacrifice You say No. Luth. Calu. cit The Scripture Luk. 22.19 Doe this for a commemoration of me wee beleeue that there is allso in the Christian Church an Alter these three things Sacrifice Priest and Alter hauing a reference of coexistence You say No. Luth. for Mis Eccl. Wit Calu. 4. inst cit 1. Cor. 9 The Scripture In that daye there shall be an Alter of our Lord in the middest of the land of Egypt Isay 19.19 Altars Heb. 13 10 And the Apostle VVee haue an Alter whereof they haue not power to eate who serue the tabernacle 54. Wee beleeue that Traditions are to be obserued whether receaued from the Apostles in writing or els by word of mouth You say No. Luth. Post in fest sancti Steph. Calu. 4. inst c. 8. Antid sess 4 Kemn ibid. The Scripture Hold the traditions which you haue learned 2. Thess 2.15 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Traditions whether it be by word or by our Epistle Wee beleeue that Gods word shall by diuine Assistance be continuallie deliuered by word of Mouth and openlie be still professed You acknowledge no infallible deliuerie of true doctrine by word of Mouth Luth. Calu. cit Beza not Eccl. whitt cont 2. q. 4. c. 3.
q. 5. c. 17. The Scripture Isay 59 2â— My words that I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy Mouth and out of the mouth of thy seede and out of the mouth of the seede of thy seede saith our lord from this present and for euer The same place your brother Puritan doth allso contradict in denying a perpetuall visible Church Wee beleeue that the Church is assisted by the holy Ghost to all truth You say No And so do all Hereticks Our Sauiour in the Scripture Io. 14.16 16. v. 13 I will giue you another Paraclete that he may abide with you for euer the Spirit of Truth he shall teach you all truth 55. Thus I am come in fine to the first againe which doth confirme all the rest RemeÌ„ber what I said in the begining of this Chapter in so much that what I haue here shewed in the last place out of Scripture doth prooue that the Church doctrine deliuered by word of Mouth is all true whether it be written downe in the Bible or be not for these places of Tradition by word the word of God euer in the mouth of the Church and the Spirit suggesting and teaching all truth are not limitted in the Scripture to writing as in the text you see And therefore now I repeate my argument made in the begining of this Chapter If the Scripture doth formallie auouch our doctrine and denie yours in the maine points wherein wee differ Arg. it is euidentlie vnpossible for you or any man breathing to make it euident by the Scripture that the Apostles and primitiue Church were of your Religion not of ours or that yours is true ours false But the Scripture doth auouch our doctrine and denie yours in the maine pointes wherein we differâ— as I haue showne Therefore it is euidently vnpossible for you or any man breathing to make it euident by the Scripture that the Apostles and primitiue Church were of your religion not of â—urs or that yours is true ours false 56. Now since your doctrine is thus contrary to Gods word and consequentlie your spirit being rubde vppoÌ„ this tuchstone being found to be counterfait it were not amisse to looke about from whence you had your doctrine and whence your Spirit came Which thing I could finde out without much adoe and would set downe here but that I haue allreadie bene to longe I will therefore onely \ shewe you the way to finde it and so conclude Looke out the place where Gods commandements are neuer kept but esteemed vnpossible where all actions are sinnes and sinnes neuer remitted or wiped cleane away where there is no Indulgence or remissioÌ„ of any paine due to sinne no works of supererogatioÌ„ acknowledged no state of perfectioÌ„ no Merit of works no Libertie to doe well no prayer for the deade no Communion with saincts in heauen nor prayers made vnto them where Priestlie function is abhorred holy Sacrifice blasphemed and the very Images of Christ and his Saincts loathed and detested Where there is no Iustice inherent no constant rectitude or infallibility of iudgment no coÌ„tinual Visibilitie of sacred Profession no Vnitie in Religion but a confused admittance of all that are against the Catholique of Wicklefists and Hussites Luther doth confesse it in his Booke de missa pri tom 7. fol. 228. VVittemb a. 1558. See Luthers life by Mr Brereley câ— 1. â— 2. and Arians and Athiests aÌ„d all people that will obstinatly refuse confession of their Sinnes works of pietie and the common Creede and make theÌ„selues their owne wittes the Iudge of all looke out this place aÌ„d the rest you will finde there I haue heard and reade and doe beleeue that the spirit which instructed Luther your Master came from thence The Conclusion THe protestants are not able to giue satisfactioÌ„ in the Question of the Church whereby as allso by their Opposition to the Scripture and Antiquitie it is manifest that theirs is not the true Religion which or where else soeuer the true Religion be THE SECOND BOOKE WHEREIN IS DECLARED which is the true Church THE FIRST CHAPTER Shewing by authoritie of holy scripture that the true Christian Church is Catholike for tyme and place 1. SINCE your Church cannot be prooued to be Catholicke or vniuersall in regard of a generall communion which the world and perpetuall visibilitie you pretend there is no necessitie of any such latitude of place or tyme and would perswade vs that it is Catholique for doctrine because it holds the three Creeds with Baptisme aÌ„d the Supper and is not tied to one tyme or Nation but such as may be in any which you call negatiue vniuersalitie for tyme and place and for doctrine positiue Thou seemest to speake acutelie said S. Augustine to Vincentius a man of the Rogation Heresie and your Master in the way of defending your Religion as it seemes when thou doest interprete the name Catholique S. Aug. ep 48 by the obseruation of all diuine Precepts and all Sacraments and not of the communion of the whole world c. but indeed the thing which thou doest indeuour to persuade vs is that onelie Rogatians haue remained who are rightlie to be called Catholiques by the obseruation of all the diuine lawes and all Sacraments and that you onelie are the men in whom the sonne of man may finde faith when he comes Pardon vs wee beleeue it not And afterwards in the same Epistle you are with vs in baptisme in the Creede in the rest of our lords Sacraments In the spirit of Vnitie and in the band of peace and finallie in the Catholique church you are not with vs. As that Rogatian so you in your interpretation would seeme acute but vnto such onelie as neither knowe Scripture nor the state of the Question It is true that the doctrine of the true Church is perfect and the Obiect of her faith entire in it selfe but in your books and beleefe it is mangled and diuided so that part onelie is there allowed as hereafter shall appeare The Question is not here about that but about the Church that is about a certaine congregation of men and about the Vniuersalitie of such a Congregation not negatiue as you would haue it but positiue of tyme and place And because you admit not a positiue vniuersalitie that is a being of the Church in all Nations and in all tymes I will demonstrate vnto you by Scripture the Vniuersalitie of the true Church which soeuer it be whether the Roman or any other of which further point I will not dispute in this Chapter And allthough the scripture be full of testimonies for this vniuersalitie I will alleadge a fewe onelie aÌ„d those in order out of Moyses the Psalmes Prophets and Gospell which being well looked into will suffice 2. But first lest you rhinke you are to open your eies to looke on a Church and it inuisible by reason that in the Creede wee beleeue the Church
you must consider that the eie of faith ād the corporall eie may both finde their obiects in one and the same thing Wee reade the Scripture ād beleeue the sense The Apostles saw our Sauiour and beleeued he was the Sonne of God The faithfull assēbled when the holie Ghost came amongst them were visible and yet they where the Church First therefore in a word I will declare that the Church of God which soeuer be is visible secondlie I will shewe you the greatnes of it which is the thing I principallie doe intend in this Chapter thirdlie the durance or perpetuitie that you may frame in your vnderstanding the true conceipt of the Church of God 3. And first touching the visibilitie or to speake yet more generallie touching the sensible perceptibility of the thing wee speake of it is cleere that that which makes a continuall noise Visibilitie and is alwaies speaking and in all mens eies and cannot be hid is a thing sensible vnto men that haue eies and eares and if this thing be in all Nations and at all tymes it is sensible to all the world Now this is the condition of the Church of God Psal 18. v. 6. Isa 52. v. 10 which soeuer it be which I prooue thus by Scripture He hath put his tabernacle in the Sunne saith Dauid and Isaie Our lord hath prepared his holie arme in the eies of all the Gētiles and all the endes of the earth shall see the saluation of our God They of the west shall feare the name of our Lord and they of the rising of the sunne his glorie when he shall come as a violent streame 59. v. 19.20 21. which the spirit of our Lord driueth and there shall come the Redeemer to Sion and to them that returne from iniquitie in Iacob saith our Lord. This is my couenant with them saith our Lord. My spirit that is in thee and my words that I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth and out of the mouth of thy seede and out of the mouth of the seede of thy seede saith our Lord 62. v. 6. Mat. 5. v. 15 See S. Aug. enar in ps 47. from this present and for euer Vppon thy walls Ierusalem I haue appointed watchmen All the day and all the night for euer they shall not hold their peace You are the light of the world a cittie cannot be hid situated on a montaine 4. I omitte the allegation of more authorities because hereafter I shall speake more of this matter and these fewe declare and prooue manifestlie the truth of that which I said I goe therefore on to the chiefe point intended in this Chapter which is to shewe Gods eternall and inuiolable ordinance about the Churches vniuersalitie Vniuersalitie Gal. 3. And to begin with Moyses wee haue in him the promise of an ample Posteritie to old Abraham Father of Beleeuers made by God himselfe and expounded by S. Paul of the Church of Christ Gen. 22. v. 17. I will blesse thee and I will multiplie thy seede as the starres of heauen and as the sand that is in the sea shore thy seed shall possesse the gates of their enimies and in thy seed shall be blessed all the Nations of the earth This did God then confirme with an oath and proceeding in the promise 28. v. 14. confirmed it againe to Iacob afterward thy seed shall he as the dust of the earth thou shalt be dilated to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south and in thee and in thy seede all the tribes of the earth shall be blessed Next in the psalmes wee heare God the Father saying vnto his sonne our Sauiour Psal 2. v. 8 aske of me and I will giue the Gentiles for thine inheritance and thy possession the ends of the earth and the Prophet adds in an other psalme all the ends of the earth shall remember and be conuerted vnto our Lord 21. v. 28.29 and all the families of the Gentiles shall adore in his sight All Natiōs whatsoeuer thou hast made shall come and shall adore before thee o lord 65. v. 6. 5. Among the Prophets Isaie In the latter daies the mountaine of the house of our lord shall be prepared in the top of mountaines and shall be raised aboue the little hilles Isa 2 v. 2.3 and all Nations shall flowe vnto it and many people shall goe and shall saie come and let vs goe vp to the mount of our lord and to the house of the God of Iacob and he will teach vs his waies and wee shall walke in his paths And againe vppon thee o Ierusalem shall our lord arise and his glorie shall beseene vppon thee and the Gentiles shall walke in thy light and kings in the brightnes of the rising 60. v. 2.3.4 5. lift vp thine eies round about and behold all these are gathered together they are come vnto thee thy sonnes shall come from a farre and thy daughters shall arise from thy side then shalt thou see and shalt abound and thy hart shall wonder and be enlarged when the multitude of the sea shall be conuerted vnto thee the strengh of Gentiles shall come to thee After him Daniel I beheld in the vision of the night and loe with the clouds of heauen there came in as it were the sonne of man Dan. 7. v. 13.14 and he came euen to the auncient of daies and in his sight they offered him and he gaue him power and honour and kingdome and all people tribes and tongues shall serue him his power is an eternall power that shall not be taken awaie and his kingdeme shall not be corrupted The like is in the rest I adde onelie Malachie which is the last and neerest to our Sauiours tyme from the rising of the sunne euen to the going downe Mal. 1. v. 11 great is my name among the Gentiles and in euerie place there is sacrificing and there is offered vnto my name a cleane Oblation because my name is great among the Gentiles saith the lord of hostes 6. As the old Testament so the newe doth establish the foresaid vniuersalitie of the Church and our Sauiour doth giue commission vnto his disciples and to their Successors to raise such a one All power saith he is giuen me in heauen and in earth going therefore teach yee all Nations Mat. 28. v. 19.20 baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the sonne ād of the holie Ghost teaching them to obserue all things whatsoeuer I haue commaunded you and behold I am with you all daies euen to the consummation of the world Going into the world preach the Gospell to all creatures And in another Mar. 16. v. 15. he declares the issue of the foresaid propheticall speaches against such as would haue imagined they were cōditionall speaches onelie These are the words which I spake to you Luk. 24. v. 44.45.46 when I
he speakes of weekes of ages were without example in the Scripture and indeede ridiculous for they make 49000. yeeres and till then the Iewes were to expect their Messias If weekes of Iubilees they take vp halfe the tyme that is 24500. yeers whereas the Temple is allready burnt and the cittie quite ouerturned more then 1500. yeers agoe Olympiads the Scripture neuer compts Iosephus de Bel. Iud. l. 9. c. 10. neither would the tyme agree with the citties ouerthrowe in any sort but reacheth more then a thousand yeeres be yōd it In fine these are sillie shifts without ground and may by the Prophecie be controwled easily To looke into the thing further and consider exactly what yeere these weekes began what yeere precisely they ended Also why the whole sūme was deuided into three parts is not necessarie though there be in the text a light to find it out It is sufficient and euident that the tyme is past more then 1500. yeeres agoe Agge 2. v. 8 9. 34. A third Prophecie Thus saith the Lord of hosts as yet there is one little while and I will moue the heauen and the earth and the sea and the drie land And I will moue all Nations And the desired of all Nations shall come and I will fill this howse the second Temple then standing with glory saith the Lord of hosts Great shall be the glory of this last howse more then of the first That temple which was to be so honoured in the cōming of the Messias the hope of the Gentiles and was indeed more glorious in regard of his presence then the former built by Salomon is now rased to the ground more then 1500. yeeres agoe wherefore this Prophecie is fullfilled long since 35. The Iewes obiect against vs that the Messias is to come in glorie ād Maiestie Iesus came in humilitie and pouerty and therefore they will not beleeue he is indeede the Messias In this discourse these Iewes erre against the Scripture which they admit and their errour is in this that they distinguish not two commings or aduents one to redeeme the other to iudge the world one in humilitie the other in Maiestie one past the other future in the end of the world And here because the Iewes denie the former cōming of the Messias that is in humilitie to suffer for the redēption of mankind I will recite it out of the Prophets where it is so manifestly foretold that it cannot be denied or eluded Reioyce greatly o daughter of Sion Zach. 9. v. 9 behold thy king will come to thee the iust and Sauiour himself poore c. His looke among men shall be inglorious and his forme amōg the sonnes of men Isa 52.14 He shall not crie nor accept person neither shall his voice be heard abrode Isa 42. v. 2 3.4 the brused reede he shall not not breake and smoking flaxe he shall not quench he shall bring forth iudgment in truth he shall not be sad nor turbulēt till he set iudgmēt in the earth ād the ILANDS shall expect his law There is no beautie in him nor comelinesse and wee haue seene him ād there was no sigthlines and wee were desirous of him Despised and most abiect of men A MAN OF SORROVVES AND KNOVVING INFIRMITIE and his looke as it were hid and despised whereuppon neither haue wee esteemed him he surely hath borne our infirmities and our sorrowes he hath caried and wee haue thought him as it weare a leper and striken of God and humbled But he was WOVNDED FOR OVR INIQVITIES he was broken for our sinnes 〈…〉 c. the discipline of our peace vppon him ād with the waile of his stripe were healed All we haue strayed as sheepe euerie one hath declined into his owne way and our lord hath put vpō him THE INIQVITIE OF ALL VS He was offered because himself would and opened not his mouth as a sheepe to slaughter shall he be led and as a lambe before his shearer he shall be dumbe and shall not open his mouth Therfore will I distribute vnto him verie manie and he shall deuide the spoiles of the strong for that he hath deliuered his soule vnto DEATH and was reputed with the wicked and he hath borne the sinne of manie and hath prayed for the transgressours Before you heard out of an other Prophet After sixtie two weekes CHRIST shall be SLAINE Dan 9.26 ād it shall be noe more his people that shall denie him Zach. 12.10 I will powre out vppon the howse of Dauid and vppō the inhabitants of Ierusalem the spirit of grace and of prayers and they shall looke vppon ME whō they haue PIERCED They haue digged my hands and my feete Psal 21. v. 18. vppon my vesture they haue cast lotte All this and more the Prophets doe relate of the Humilitie and Passion of the Messias expreslie against the Iewes who are scandalized in that which was manifestlie there declared longe before 36. They obiect secondly that they are to be saued when the Messias comes Iuda is interpreted the cōfession of God See Galat. l. 5. c 11. domus Iuda Congregatio confitentium Deum Indeede the Church of the Messias the Congregatiō of those that perseuerantly adhere to him is to be saued And when all Nations haue entered the remnant of the Iewes will acknowledge our Sauiour too which will be before his second comming But at his first cōminge it is cleere by the Scripture that the Iewes would reiect him and put him to death and that the Gentiles would receaue him as they haue donne and doe and will doe till all Nations haue entered into his Church So that the Iewes obstinacie though it be grosse is not strange to vs for wee are assured of it by the Scripture and of their desolation together with the cause of all I will sett this downe brieflie too First their fact puttinge the Messias to death Secondly their desolatiō there vppon Thirdly God turning his fauoure to the Gentiles Fourthly the Iewes acknowledgment of our Sauiour or conuersiō in the end The fact Dan. 9.26 After sixtie two weekes Christ shall be slaine and it shall not be his people that shall denie him Zach. 12.10 c. I will powre vppon the inhabitants of Ierusalem the spirit of grace c. and they the inhabitants of Ierusalem shall looke vppon me the author of grace and God of Israel whom they haue pierced The desolation followeth in the words of Daniel and is also in Osee Dan. 9.27 Ose 3 4. Many daies shall the childrē of Israel sitte without King and without Prince and without Sacrifice and without Alter and without Ephod ād without Theraphim God Casting thē of and turned to the Gentiles I haue no will in you Iewes saith the lord of hosts Malach. 1. v. 10.11 and guifts or oblation I will not receaue from your hand for from the rising of the sūne euē to the going downe greate is my
allmightie God But it is true that all the people in the world are thus obliged as I prooue by the words of our Sauiour in sainct Marke Going into the world preach the Gospell to all creatures Mar. 16. v. 15.16 he that beleeueth and is baptized shall be saued but he that beleeueth not shall be condemned Out of this argument followeth yet further that the Church cannot erre in any thing of faith whether it be fundamentall or not fundamentall incurable or curable great or little for the people are to beleeue that which the Church doth teach and thus God doth warrant in the place here alleaged and therfore it appertaines vnto his prouidēce to assist and protect the Church so that it neuer teach errour in steede of Gods word 14. The seauenth argument I make out of the iudgment of all Christiās before Luther touching the foresaid obligation to beleeue the Church and the diuine spirit in it And here I except onelie such as your selfe shall confesse to haue bene Heretiques and proceede thus Generall Councells did allwayes Arg. 7 beleeue that the Church was to be beleeued and that it had diuine assistance and therfore did accurse all those who beleeued the contrarie to the Church This you know by their acts and canons The people in communion with these Councells did beleeue the same which the Councells did and receaued that which they defined The fathers Saint Augustine Saint Hierome and the rest did the same And the same did all the predestinate who liued in the communion of the Church takinge their instruction from the mouth of the Church and beleeuing as the Church did which is further manifest because those are damned who beleeued not the Church as hath bene prooued in the former argument out of Sauiours words since therfore the predestinate are saued it remaines vndeniable that they did beleeue the Church 15. And here because you some tymes when you haue dronke to much of the cuppe of selfe loue do thinke that you entertaine the holie Ghost better then any of our religion haue done especiallie since you last were in heauen and read your name there in the booke of life I oppose spiritte vnto spiritte I oppose vnto you the knowne Saints of our Religion both late and ancient and obiect vnto you the Spiritte which was in them You haue there Saint Thomas of Aquine Sainct Bonauenture Saint Francis Sainct Dominicke Sainct Charles Boromeus Sainct Xauerius and others whose sanctitie God by miraculous workes and signes hath diuulged Among the auncient you haue the holie fathers and Martyres it were longe to repeate their names here You haue the martyrologe of Baronius there are thousands of them and the places where they liued consult his notes thereunto if you doubt of any And now I argue thus All true Christians in all ages euen from the Apostles tyme did euer rest in the iudgmēt of the Church as infallible beleeuīg what was in the Church before them vniuersallie beleeued ād condemning for Heretiques all those which before were vniuersallie condemned for such And this commō principle descēded through all ages so that whatsoeuer was vniuersallie taught by the pastors as matter of faith was receaued vniuersallie by the people and was approued by the generall iudgment of the Church of God and of her spiritte This I would haue you to consider well and marke againe that the communion of Gods elect was in this multitude which is further manifest first because this onelie is the true Church of God and they were all of the true Church Secondlie by those infinite miracles whereby God hath as it were with a seale confirmed their course of life and blessed end ād thirdlie because the communion of all holie fathers whose sanctitie you acknowledge and of infinite Martyrs putte to death for profession of Christianitie hath bene openlie with and in this Church 16. I prooue the same assistance eightlie by the testimonie of Sainct Paul Apostle and Master of the Gētiles a rule you knowe must Arg. 8 be right and a rule of faith free from errour This you are readie to admitte and to interprete of the Scripture the word of God I graunt is right but there are difficulties which it is which is all what is the sense of diuers places as all knowe by the controuersies now adaies Wee looke therfore for a liuing rule or iudge and certaine proponent of Gods word and meaning Such a rule the Apostle directeth vs vnto ā exteriour visible perpetuall rule to be followed by Christian people and this if it be proposed by God to be followed is infallible by his protection and assistance will you heare the Apostles words He Christ gaue some Apostles and some Prophets and other some Euangelists and other some pastors Ephes 4.11 12.13.14 and Doctors to the consummation of the Saincts to the worck of ministerie vnto the edifying of the body of Christ vntill wee meete all into the vnitie of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God into a perfect mā into the measure of the age of the fullnes of Christ that now wee be not children wauering and caried aboute with euerie winde of doctrine in the wickednes of men to the circumuention of errour Marke in this chapter of S. Paule how many things are defined against you and your fellowes First the perpetuitie of the Church in that he saith God gaue some pastors and Doctors vntill wee all meete in the vnitie of faith Secondlie the perpetuall visibilitie of it in that these pastors are building all the tyme and that they are Apostles Pastors Doctors whose office is visible and doth manifest their persōs to the flocke thirdlie the infallibilitie of the Church is explicated by the end of the foresaid perpetuall ministerie which is that wee be not wauering Among those the Apostle speakes of you I hope include the predestinate who therfore you see depend vppon exteriour certain cōmon ād in a word Catholique propositiō of the faith a litle before you haue the vnitie of this bodie and of the Spiritte of it and after followes the varietie of functions in this one visible bodie of Iesus Christ including the elect as I haue noted before The words are Doing the truth in Charitie let vs in all things grow in him which is the head Christ 〈◊〉 15.16 of whome the whole bodie being compact and knit togeather by all iuncture of subministration according to the operation in the measure of euery member maketh the increase of the bodie vnto the edifying of it selfe in Charitie Reflect or all this and tell me whether in this Bodie be Gods elect or no whether it be visible or inuisible whether it be many bodies or one bodie and whether this body be the true Church of Christ wherof he is the head 17. But now let vs to our argument againe Sainct Paule teacheth in this Chapter that God hath prouided continuall visible meanes to keepe men from errour therfore these meanes
out of the Arg. 1 words of our Sauiour Iesus Christ who promised faithfullie to send the holy spiritte vnto the Church to assist it Ioh. 14. v. 15.16 16. Ch. v 13 I will aske my father aÌ„d he will giue you another Paraclete that he may abide with you foreuer the Spiritte of truth he shall teach you all truth Here the spiritte is promised to the Church foreuer to assist her to all truth what could be said plainer The like God before promised vnto the Church and called it his couenant Isa 59.21 to wit that the words which he putte into her mouth should neuer out of it And herevppon the Apostles beleeued that they had diuine assistance and affirmed their act and decree Acts 15.28 to be the act and decree of the holie Ghost as you reade in the Actes of the Apostles Stay here and consider well what you will do in this case if you deny the assistance you deny the word of God if you graunt it the cause is ours 23. That you may seeme to answeare you will say euer something and the more intricate it be the better it serues your turne Forsooth you graunt Assistance of the Spirit least you be seene directlie to contradict Scripture but you denie that the Church hath it The Church you saie may mistake the sense of Scripture and was mistaken many hundred yeeres together but the spirit directs you to to it your Apostle Luther and you haue hit it now at last Sillie men what are you what ground haue you for diuine assistance by what letters Patents from Gods priuate CouÌ„cell can you make this good Our Sauiour Iesus Christ hath promised the assistance of the Spiritte vnto the Church and this promise is recorded in the Scripture This holdes not you saie he hath bethought himselfe better and recalled it and made a later and an irreuocable firme promise vnto you If you be not impostors let vs see it if you showe it not as you cannot for God is God and it not chaÌ„ged you knowe what men are to thinke in such a case 24. But whie would you rob the Church of God of her legacie she doth inherite lawfullie this assistance it was bequeathed her by Iesus Christ she hath vndeniable writings to shewe for it she hath had possessioÌ„ of it longe agoe Sixteene hundred yeares she hath enioyed it It is to late for you now to commence your sute Goe first and prooue that you are the Catholique Church that the communion of Nations and of the auncient Fathers aÌ„d of the Martyrs and Saints of God haue bene with you Produce your Succession of Pastors continued euer from S. Peter bringe to light your Generall Councells which yet neuer sawe the light name the Nations you haue conuerted vnto the faith let vs heare of your miracles let vs see how the ould Prophecies all doe meete and are verified in your Church When these things are done and so well done that the world sees cleerlie your Church and not ours to be the Catholique Church then begin your sute and not now for your beggarie and want of title and imposture is yet beleeued or rather seene and felt of all the Christian world 25. If wee coÌ„sider only those whoÌ„ your selues do confesse to haue beene Heretickes heretofore you must confesse likewise that they were not Heires vnto the promises Iesus Christ made vnto his Church among which promises one was of perpetuall assistance For this promise or legacie was made and bequeathed by our Sauiour vnto his Church and confessed Heretiques were not the Church and flocke of Christ It rests therfore that you graunt that Church to inherite this legacie which is the true Church and not confessedly hereticall and false whether this Church be yours or ours This is euident Now further it is euident by the former bookes that the true Church is not yours but ours therfore the diuine assistance is in ours not in yours And this I would haue you to marke diligentlie turne downe the lâ—â—fâ— to the end I neede repeate it no more That is whensoeuer the question is about the Spiritte looke that you doe not challenge it vntill you haue prooued that yours is the Church for there is in holie Scripture no promise made of the Spiritte but vnto the Church And the like I doe saie to your fellowes either a parte or all together either moderne or more auncient if they will haue me beleeue that they haue the Spiritte of Iesus Christ let them prooue that they are the Church Neither doe I care whether the controuersie they pretend to determine by the spiritte be fundamentall or not fundamentall for I harken to no spiritte but to that in the Church therfore I say againe if they will haue me beleeue them let them prooue that they are the Church and bring such euidence as I haue demaunded heretofore which will neuer be as longe as the Scriptures and Histories are extant THE SECOND CHAPTER Wherin the last of the precedent arguments is vnfolded more at large 26. IT greeues you much that in the former Chapter I saie the diuine assistance was bequeathed vnto the Church and much you frette against me for it but cannot mend your selfe For that which I said is there prooued many waies It is a tedious thing to preach to those who shutte their eares when the word of God is deliuered who haue eies but will not see I must speake lowder yet and repeate the same ouer againe and againe that this sacred and transcendent truth of diuine assistaÌ„ce may by the operation of Gods grace enter into your sowle which errour possessing hath made deafe and dull to Gods word To runne ouer all againe would take more tyme then I can spare I will therfore inculcate the last argument onelie wherein are three texts of Scripture for assistance combined and connected all in one which I will here propose distinctlie In the first the diuine assistance is promised by God the father and I will produce the couenant In the second our Sauiour Iesus Christ doth bequeath it vnto the Church and I will bringe the words of his will registred by an Apostle In the third the confessed Church of Christ doth acknowledge the receipt of this assistance which is to be for euer hers To beginne with the first I argue thus 27. If the words of God which no doubt are the sacred truth for God speakes no lies be allwaies in the mouthes of the Pastors of Gods Church by vertue of Gods promise and prouidence this Church hath in this diuine Assistance But the words of God are allwayes in the mouthes of the pastors of Gods Church by vertue of Gods prouidence and promise therfore the Church hath in this diuine Assistance The proposition is cleere and includes proofe sufficient within it selfe because if Gods couenant and prouidence effect this thing wee speake of God effects it and is the cause of it The AssumptioÌ„ the prophet Esay
one of Gods Secretaries a man beyond all exception declares in these words Isa 59.21 My spiritte that is in thee and my words that I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth ād out of the mouth of thy seede c. saith our Lord from this present and for euer Thus he And the title of it is This is my couenant with them He doth not say my precept the Church of the Redeemer saith our Lord. 28. The first answeare is that the place concernes not the Church of Christ but onelie the Prophets of the Iewish Church But this is against the text it self which doth speake very manifestly of the Church of the Messias as you may see by the words that immediatelie goe before They of the West shall feare the name of our Lord v. 19.20 and they of the Rising of the Sunne his glorie when he shall come as a violent streame which the Spirit of our Lord driueth and the Redeemer shall come to Sion and to them that returne from iniquitie in Iacob saith our Lord. As if he had said when the Messias come into the world a Redeemer to Sion and to those that returne from iniquitie an Israel for when all Nations haue entered into the Church the Iewes will acknowledge our Sauiour too as I haue declared in the former booke Rom. 11. ◠and the Apostle doth also confirme out of this place both East and west that is the world will beleeue And this is my couenant with them the Beleeuers the Church My Spirit that is thee and my words c. The text aboue cited is by S. Ierome translated out of the Hebrew which in his time had noe points into latine thus Time bunt qui ab occidente nomen Domini qui ab Ortu solis gloriam eius quum venerit quasi fluuius violentus quem Spiritus Domini cogit VENERIT Sion Redemptor eis qui redeunt ab iniquitate in Iacob dicit Dominus Hoc foedus meum cum eis dicit Dominus Spiritus meus qui est in te verba mea quae posui in ore tuo non recedent de ore c. 29. The second answeare is that the promise is conditionall and the sense this that God will keepe the true doctrine of Saluatiō in their mouthes if they followe the Scripture and forsake not the truth in their hartes This answeare doth change the sense of allmightie God for it addeth the condition of following the Scripture wheras the promise and couenant of allmightie God is absolute and without condition as were the rest of the promises of sending a Messias and calling the Gentiles and the promise our Sauiour made of sending the holie Ghost after his ascension It taketh also the true sense awaie for the couenant is of effecting the Churches perseuerance in teaching and professing the sacred truth and adhering to his word and this you take awaie And the rest which you leaue is not the sense of God nor of the words as they are in the bible nor any priuiledge at all but a thinge which to Athiests and diuells you doe graunt for you confesse they doe teach true as longe as they teach the word of God 30. I demaund of you here whether you thinke in your conscience that God can continue the visible profession of the faith or no You cannot denie that he can doe it if he will for his wisdome and power are infinite and nothing can be but so as he pleaseth to effect or to permitte and if you denie this you denie that which in your Creede you doe professe Now graunting that he can doe it why doe not you beleeue that he will and doth seeing that he hath obliged himselfe therevnto by promise and couenant as the Scripture doth testifie It is a verie hard case when a mā dares not stand to the plaine words of Scripture and to their immediate sense which they doe offer especiallie a sense which is honourable to God and beneficiall to the Church but will add conditions of his owne as if God could make no couenant vnles he were his lawier to giue him counsell But omitting your trickes as foolish and vngrounded and contrarie to Gods honour and veracitie and wisdome I will putte you in mind of one thing which our Sauiour said touching the prophecies of himselfe and his mysticall bodie the Church Luke 24. v 44.45.46.47 All things saith he must needs be fulfilled which are written in the lawe of Moyses and the prophets and psalmes of me Thē he opened their vnderstanding that they might vnderstand the Scriptures and he said to them That so it is written and so it behoued Christ to suffer and to rise againe from the deade the third day and penance to be preached and remission of sinnes vnto all natiōs begining from Hierusalem Heare you haue heard this preaching of the Gospell to all Nations particularlie by Christ inserted among those things which he said must needs be fulfilled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And the couenant which I haue cited is in the prophet and toucheth this preaching particularlie whie doe you then oppose your selfe to Iesus Christ and saie it neede not be fulfilled it must not needs be 31. The third answeare is that God according to the couenāt doth keepe the true doctrine and sauing faith in the harts of the predestinate though they doe not alwaies professe it This will not serue your turne wee speake of profession of preaching the word of God of professing the true faith this God hath promised to continue and this makes men seene and heard of others this makes a noise in the world that all Natiōs may heare and come vnto the Church where continuallie one generation followes an other with the Gospell the doctrine of Iesus Christ the words of God in their mouth Isay 59.21 Harke Puritan the Scripture thunders this in my couenant with them saith our Lord my Spiritte that is in thee ād my VVORDS that I haue putte in thy MOVTH shall not depart out of thy MOVTH and out of the MOVTH of thy seede ād out of the MOVTH of the seede of thy seede saith our Lord from this present and FOREVER Reflect vpō these words This is my couenant with them the Christian Church saith our Lord My Spiritte which is in thee in thy hart and my words he saith not this or that poīt but generallie my words which I God haue put into thy mouth shall not out whēce of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seede c. till when For euer I was about to make an end heere of this part but I cānot for beare adding one sentēce more out of the same prophet in an other Chapter next but one where he declares the perpetuall visibilitie of the Church by reason of the continuall noise which her Pastors make and shewes in part the vse of the foresaid assistāce Vppon thie walles Hierusalem
they might securelie beleeue what the first age by generall consent had taught The Church in the third age did beleeue the same of the Church in the first and second ages and thus euer succeeding worlds of people did beleeue of the Church in all ages before their tyme. Thus it hath bene beleeued Thus hath the possession of the diuine legacie receaued at first by vndeniable heires the Apostles bene kept by the Church these sixteene hundred yeares 46. In this Church haue beene infinite people pastors innumerable great deuines graue Fathers the Reuerēce of Antiquitie ād Flower of learning In it haue bene all the true Martyrs that euer suffered for Iesus Christ all the contemplatiues all the Saincts and predestinate all the Apostles all holie people that haue bene since the sōne of God came downe into the world to redeeme and instruct man And the spirit of all these condemnes you ād your Spirit as being opposite to the Spirit of the pastors of Gods Church to the Spirit of auncient fathers to the Spirit of Gods elect to the Spirit of Apostles and Euangelists who beleeued all that the Church whereof they were had the Assistance of Gods holie Spirit 42. Will you see your aduersaries all at once men staie not longe in this world some die more are borne so that mankind like a flood runnes on and euerie one is a part a drop in this flood The vnderstanding onelie can staie in it selfe and make all at once stand before it Assemble therfore in your vnderstanding the Catholique Church of all former ages and looke then on the companie and see them all against your selfe Behold a Councell for wee haue abstracted these men the Church I meane from tyme and place diffusing it in which consideration the vnion of the parts in beleefe and their communion doth remaine therefore I saie againe behold a Coūcell Oecumenicall the most ample the most learned the most reuerend that euer was Wherein are all the Bisshops of Asia Africke and Europe before Luther I except only confessed Heretiques All the auncient Fathers all the great Deuines all the Pastors that haue bene in the space of fifteene hundred yeares confessed Heretiques excepted all the Martyrs of Iesus Christ all the Saincts and Predestinate all the Apostles all the Euangelists and people infinite In the middest of this great Councell is the holie Ghost the Spirit of Truth mouing all as he pleaseth and by his operations keeping the truth manifest And the President of it is Iesus Christ the naturall Sonne of God God and man All these condemne your doctrine your Spirit is against the Spirit of all these and therefore by Christian people to be condemned and abhorred 43. I am no Rhetoritian I doe not amplifie I haue prooued all that I doe saie And here end this Chapter wishing you to consider well what I haue said hetherto for diuine assistance And if you vnderstand it well as God graunt you may you will see that it cannot be denied without contempt of all the Christian world without contradicting the Spirit of the predestinate without opposition to knowne Saincts in the matter of diuine religion without giuing the lie to the Apostles Euangelists and prophets and finallie without open iniurie to the Father the Sonne and the holie Ghost who haue each their peculiar interest in the matter the Sōne in intreating the Father in sending and the holie Ghost in comming Wherby this transcendent Principle of diuine assistāce doth relie peculiarlie vppon the whole Trinitie which is the prime Veritie and origen of created vnderstanding THE THIRD CHAPTER That the Argument is not answeared by the distinction of fundamentall and not fundamentall 44. THat you may haue some thing to say and conceale your vnsufficiēcie from such as are not Schollers you put in here a distinction of fundamentall and not fundamētall points and thinke to stoppe our mouthes with one peece of the distinction Some of your fellowes expresse themselues in other termes but in sense you meete Your answeare is that the Church hath infallible assistāce to fundamentall points not to others Concerning the fundamentall points you are not yet agreed most commonly you thinke that they are the chiefe poīts in the three Creeds And agree all that they are very fewe Some will haue fower others six others eight suppose with the most that they be twelue According to your distinction the Spirit doth assist the Church infalliblie to these points and hath done so euer It remaines now that I adde a word or two touching the rest 45. I am therefore to proue a further assistance of the Spiritte then to sixe or twelue pointes which you call fundamentall and first my Argumentes which I made in the former Chapters are not answeared by your distinction but proue stronglie that Gods assistance is to all and your answeare which makes a wide exception whereas the Scripture hath none at all is first without groūd in the Scripture You should haue showne your distinction there if you had expected beleefe for men may not presume to make exceptions at their pleasure in the generall rule of God Secondlie it leaues the world without satisfaction in the matter of controuersies for you leaue noe meanes at all to make an end of the For example to end the controuersies betwixt vs and you you leaue noe meanes at all Not the assistance of Gods Spiritte for you saie they are in matters not fundamentall and that our Church in fundamentalls neuer erred Nor the witte of man for all men if not assisted may erre in diuine matters Nor the testimonie and iudgment of Antiquitie for if they were certaine of these matters it was either by their owne Wittes and these without Gods assistance might erre or it was by the assistance of the Spiritte to these pointes which is agaīst the doctrine of your distinction Nor is there any other way found either in the dispositiō of Gods Prouidence for this is the thing would ouerthrowe your distinction or in the witte of man 46. Thirdlie this doctrine of yours is against the perfection of our Sauiours prouidence for all powerfull and wise persons establishing a perpetuall common wealth take order for the peace and vnitie of it since diuision is the ruine of the publique weale And our Sauiour as you haue heard before hath instituted a spirituall common wealth to last foreuer wherefore if he hath not ordained meanes for the peace and vnitie of it his prouidence hath ben deficient and this commō wealth of his with infinite diuisions arising about the most obscure rule or lawe which he hath left will be torne into peeces and so perish and not be perpetuall as he intended it should be Againe diuisions and Schismes are not onelie in points by you esteemed fundamētall as appeareth cleerelie by your schisme And Gods rule or written word containes not only things fundamentall in that sense as you may see in the Scripture wherein are other points of doctrine and
manners all most infinite And further yet there is and hath ben controuersie about the rule it self as which it is how much is Scripture which booke which chapter which verse is or is not holy Scripture what is the meaning of this or that verse which controuersies must be decided otherwise there will neuer be vnitie and consent about the diuine Word rule and lawe Now these things cannot be determined without Diuine Assistance as I argued before and for the Vnitie in Religion and the CommunioÌ„ and Perpetuitie power to determine them is necessarie wherefore since our Sauiours Prouidence was not deficient it followes that there is and in the Church such power and Assistance 47. Fourthlie if the holie ministerie in the Church of God be established as a rule of mens faith to the end they be not in their faith wauering and borne about with euery winde of newe doctrine to the circumuention of errour then is it by Gods assistance and perpetuall watch and direction infallible but the sacred ministerie of the Church of God is thus established by Iesus Christ which I proue by the testimonie of S. Paule before alleadged he Christ Ephes 4. v. 11. c. gaue some Apostles aÌ„d other some Pastors and Doctors to the consummation of the Saints vnto the worke of the ministerie vnto the edifying of the bodie of Christ vntill wee meete all into the vnitie of faith and knowledge of the sonne of God into the measure of the age of the fullnes of Christ that now wee be not children wauering and caried about with euerie wind of doctrine in the wickednes of men in craftines to the circumuention of errour 47. Fiftly since you distinguish the doctrine of faith into fundamentall and not fundamentall it followes that the Apostles had put into their mouthes for instruction of Gods people doctrine allso not fundameÌ„tall Iohn 15. v. 15. all thinges whatsoeuer I hard of my father I haue notified vnto you said our Sauiour to the Apostles Whence I inferre also that that doctrine shall neuer out of their mouthes or the mouthes of their successors while the world endures and proue it by Gods couenant of assistance Isay 5â— my spiritte that is in thee and my wordes that I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth aÌ„d out of the mouth of thy seede aÌ„d out of the mouth of the seede of thy seede saith our lord from this present and for euer And by the promise of our blessed Sauiour Isay 14. v. 26. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Paraclete the holy Ghost whome the Father will send in my name he shall teach you all thinges and suggest vnto you all thinges whatsoeuer I shall say to you 49. That you may the better vnderstand this peece of diuinitie which doth oft occurre I will spend a litle more tyme in it to let you know first that you and the rest of your fellowes in this matter doe crosse and contradict your owne selues For touching other pointes pointes of religioÌ„ and gods word which you saie are not fundamentall Further Confirmation of the former arguments either there is certaine knowledge to be had of them or there is not make choise of which you please If you be not certaine you must confesse you doubt of the truth of such pointes and of the meaning of Gods word in all places by vs alleadged which are not fundamentall and that you confidentlie auouch in the pulpitte and maintaine against vs in the matters of reall presence iustificatioÌ„ merit workes of Supererogation sacrifice inuocation of Sainctes c. that which you doubt whether it be as you saie or noe If you be certaine either you meane that the Spiritte doth assist and assure you in more then fundamentalles which indeed is your ordinarie pulpite bragge where none dispute with you and consequentlie you must graunt against your distinction that the assistance of the Spiritte is extended further then to your pretended fundamentalles or you meane that you are not assured by the Spiritte but onelie by your witte which witt you oppose to the witte and iudgment of all the Church in diuine matters And if it be thus you contradict you selues because at home you say you resolue it not into your owne witte but into the Spirit 50. You answeare that by illation you conclude against vs but who knowes not that the difficultie is about the sense of the place from whence you offer to conclude against vs and that first you must be certaine of this sense before you can extract any thing out of it by good consequeÌ„ce I demaund therfore whether you be certaine of the sense or noe if you be not you are not certaine of the conclusion which you draw there hence as euery logitian can tell if you be then I demaund how since mans witte in diuine matters may mistake and this you confesse assistance of the Spiritte you haue not or if you pretend to haue it then confesse that in your owne iudgment it is extended in Gods promise to more then fundamentalles 51. Secondlie you contradict the whole Church aÌ„d her spiritte in this foolish affirmatioÌ„ of the Churches errour in pointes not fuÌ„damentall as you call them A second Confirmation And this I proue because all ChristiaÌ„s that euer were in the coÌ„munion of the Church hetherto did submitte their iudgmeÌ„t to the generall iudgmeÌ„t of the Church in the age before them beleeuing all whatsoeuer was theÌ„ generallie aÌ„d without exception beleeued whether the point were one of those which you call fundamentall or were not one of them in somuch that you are not able to name any one point held generallie without exception in any former age to be matter of faith though it were not one of your fundamentalles which point was reiected by the Church generallie in any ensuing age And to giue all the scope in this you can desire take all the tyme from the comming of the assisting Spiritt which was the whitsontide next after our Sauiours ascension to this present yeare But be sure you obserue diligentlie what I haue said in this argument and doe not speake of thinges which are not to this purpose either because they were not generallie and without exception esteemed matters of faith by the Church Catholique or because the contradiction tradition was not the act of the Church but of some priuate man either mistakeÌ„ by ignoraÌ„ce the Church not approuing his assertion or pertinaciously a uouching it â—n Hereticke and so without and none of vs. 3. Confirmation 52. The truth of that which I haue said is further yet manifest in this that all whosoeuer were generallie condemned for Heretiques in any former age by the Church were esteemed so by the Church in following tymes whether their Heresies were in matters you call fundamentall or not as he may see who will runne ouer the Heresies of former tymes whence it followes elderlie that
difference is not by meanes of the letter Reflect well on all this when you answeare the first booke nor of any common good Spiritt for that would not contradict it selfe as they do each other this difference cannot be taken but from the sense imaginatioÌ„ aÌ„d will of each partie and therefore each partie must be defined by his owne wit or by all his opinions in matter of faith 75. And here I answeare to your common replie of the Schoolemens disagreement in Schoole-questioÌ„s for notwithstaÌ„ding the varietie of opinioÌ„s in matters not defined by the Church before or in their tyme all Schoolemen that were Catholiques did agree in faith and all did beleeue the same according as I haue said before of other men Each of them tooke the iudgment of the Church for infallible therein beleeuing all whatsoeuer she either had or hereafter would determine This did euerie Schoole man euerie Catholique Deuine euerie Father 76. This way S. Augustine doth excuse S. Cyprian in the matter of rebaptization Before the consent of the whole Church by the decree of a plenarie or generall Councell S. Aug li. 1. de Bapt cont Don. c. 18. had determined what was to be embraced of all in that controuersie of rebaptizing the recoÌ„ciled S. CypriaÌ„ with allmost fowerscore of his fellow African Bysshops did thinke that euerie one who was baptized out of the Catholique coÌ„munion ought to be baptized againe when he had reconciled himselfe to the Church As yet there had bene no generall CouÌ„cell assembled in that behalfe but the world was held in by the strength of custome l. 2 c. 9. and this custome onelie was opposed to those which endeuoured to bringe in that noueltie of rebaptization because they could not apprehend the truth yet afterwards whilst among many on both sides it is spoken of and sought it is not onelie found out but allso brought to the autoritie and strenght of a generall Councell after Cyprians passion indeede but yet before I was borne A precedeÌ„t plenarie may be ameÌ„ded by a subsequent plenarie in matters oâ— fact And in faith a generall not approued by a generall approued Councell In the same place by occasion of the Councells by S. Cyprian and his predecessors made in Africke he saith that particular Councells must yeld to generall and that the whole is deseruedlie preferd before the part or particulars More ouer in the same booke a little before he prooues out of S. Cyprians words that if S. Cyprian had knowne of such a definition he would haue corrected his opinion and then shewes how much he doth relie on it himselfe Neither durst wee affirme any such thinge if wee were not well grounded vppon the most vniforme authoritie of the vniuersall Church l. 2. c. 4. vnto which vndoubtedlie S. Cyprian allso would haue yeelded if in his tyme the truth of this question had bene cleered and declared S. Augustines Spâ—rit and by a generall CouÌ„cell establisshed And of the same againe he hath an excellent discourse in the fift booke where amonge other things he saith that he pleaseth not the Saint if he seeke to preferre his wit and eloquence and store of learning before the holie Councell of all Nations â— 5. e. 17. to which doubtles he was present by vnitie of Spirit and if I with the whole world do iudge more truelie â—bid I do not preferre my hart before him neither is he in that he iudged otherwise deuided from the whole world â—bid I preferre not my opinion before his but the iudgmeÌ„t of the holy Catholique Church â— Cuius vniâ—ersitas ipâ— non fuit â—d in eius â—niuersitaâ— permanâ—t all which he was not but remained in it This is inough for my purpose and in the same principles of S. Augustine you see now that I can answeare any obiection that you can bringe out of the dissention of ancient or moderne writers or rather if you reflect on it well you will be able to answeare it all your selfe 77. This passage hath made me call to minde other speaches of the Fathers not farre from this purpose whereof I thinke it not amisse to put some downe for your better meditation if you will be pleased peraduenture to thinke more seriouslie on their words then you haue done hetherto on mine The truth of the scripture is helde of vs in this matter when wee doe that which pleaseth the whole Church Aug. l. 1. â—nt Cres â—3 the which the authoritie of the scriptures doth commend that because the holy Scriptures cannot deceaue whosoeuer feareth to be deceaued with the obscuritie of this question let him require the iudgment of the Church which the holie scripture without any ambiguitie doth demonstrate Vincent lirin conâ— Haeres c. 2â— It is necessarie by reason of the windings of vnconstant errour that the line of propheticall aÌ„d Apostolicall interpretation be directed according to the rule of the Ecclesiastical and Catholique sense And in the Catholique Church likewise wee must haue a greate care that wee hold that which hath bene beleeued euery where euer and by all c. 3. for this is truelie aÌ„d properlie Catholique as the power and reason of the word or name doth import which truelie doth coÌ„prehend all vniuersallie And this is so done in fine if wee followe vniuersalitie antiquitie consent vniuersalitie wee followe if wee confesse that one faith to be true which the whole Church thorough the world doth acknowledge and Antiquitie if wee do not in any sort leaue those senses which it is manifest that our Fathers and holie elders haue celebrated and commended and consent allso if wee followe the definitions ad decrees of all or neere all the Priests and Masters in Antiquitie 78. A protestant would thinke me vnreasonable if I should demand and exact all these conditions in euery protestant proposition before I beleeue it yet I will beleeue none of their doctrine vnles it be thus prooued nor all their Religion vnles it be thus prooued all which is as much to say as that by Gods grace I will neuer beleeue it Wee haue possessioÌ„ the spirit is in our Church aÌ„d this father was of it aÌ„d doth acknowledge it of greater authoritie of more infallibilitie then himselfe aÌ„d his rules were ruled by it but I goe on In the Antiquitie of the Church two things are constantlie and with greate care to be obserued Idem c. 41 to both which all they that will not become Heretiques must steed fastlie adhere The first is whatsoeuer is auncientlie decreed by all the Priests of the Catholique Church in a generall Councell secondlie if any newe question doth arise concerning which there is no such decree to be founde then must recourse be made to the iudgment of the holie Fathers I say of those onelie who euery one in their owne tyme were found to be approued masters continuing still in the vnitie of communion and faith And whatsoeuer they are
by diuine Reuelation that he is in the Church euer teaching all Truth as I haue declared at large and I haue declared also which is the Church of God but wee haue no diuine Reuelation that he is in N. N. in Iohn Caluin Yea wee knowe he is not in him because he contradicts the Spirit in the Church this Church the Fathers had instruction to the iudgment of this communitie the greatest iudgments did euer stoupe Their practise doth so demonstrate Their books for them confesse it still And this is our practise allso this is our resolution wee confesse it wee professe it wee rest in the iudgment of Gods Spirit in the Catholique Church and to this Tribunall be you neuer so vnwilling you must allso come as I haue declared in this booke and here all * Cōtrouersie must be determined Wee doe not flie the Scripture wee haue it wee haue the Reuerence of Antiquitie on our side and reason pleads for vs but here the cause is ended When you do question the reall presence iustification by woorks S. Peeters primacie and alleage Scripture wee do likewise alleage Scripture and so pregnant that you cannot reallie answeare and then alonge wee goe to be iudged by the diuine spirit in the Church where wee are certaine he is and teacheth all truth When you say this or that booke is not Scripture this was or was not receaued in the primitiue Church the sēse of the letter is this or that Wee examine all and then appeale to to the Spirit in the Church where wee are sure he is suggesting all whatsoeuer the Sonne of God hath reuealed and taught to be receaued and beleeued of men When you pretēd that our doctrine is against reason against holy Fathers against Antiquitie wee produce testimonies of auncient Fathers and reason for our side and then submit the cause to the Spirit in the Church which looking on all truth can iudge best what is most conformable to reason to the Fathers to all Antiquitie And when you say that the Councells contradict one another that there are contradictions in the Scripture Wee are satisfied in these points allso by the Spirit in Church as being the highest Iudge of all cōtrouersies of infinite vnderstanding and no lesse infinite veracitie So that all particular Controuersies do runne into this generall Principle to be resolued and this Principle wee haue in plaine termes from the mouth of God THE FIFT CHAPTER Wherein some exceptions are answeared 82. THe obiections which you and your fellowes make are partlie against the infallibilitie of the Catholique Church in it selfe and partlie against the infallibilitie of generall Councells where Bisshops are assembled out of all Countries to determine commonlie by diuine assistance what belongs to faith and what is cōtrarie therevnto Of this second part it being not the whole Church formallie in it selfe whereof I haue intreated hetherto but the whole in representation onelie as deuines tearme it I will speake a word or two hereafter And will answeare that heere which you bring against the first which is the matter wee haue in hand You are to shewe not that some particular man or some part of the Church might fall of and leaue to be part of the Catholique not-erring Church for that wee see cleerelie in your masters Luther Caluin and others which once were Catholiques ād in the Church of Englād which was in the communion of the Church for a thousand yeeres together and by that communiō Catholique as being then part of Gods Church And is now fallen into schisme and Heresie but you must proue that the Catholique Church may erre in faith or to vse your owne termes that all the Church of God may be in errour affirming and beleeuing contrarie to that which is true in faith 83. And first I obserue that if you did vnderstand your owne principles you would dispaire of the successe of your owne arguments because by those principles of yours all that you can say may iustlie be contemned This I demonstrate for you will either prooue this doctrine of the Churches infallibilitie in the sense wherein wee defend it to be an errour fundamentall or to be some other errour not fundamentall The first you cannot pretend without contradicting your selfe presentlie for you saie allso that the Church cannot erre in fundamentalls and that ours in fundamētalls doth not erre granting withall when you are well vrged that ours is the Church and if you should start backe and denie it againe you will finde it vnder double proofe in another place The Second you cannot as much as pretend to prooue and demonstrate in your principles because according to thē you can take no meanes whereof you are certaine not reason for all men may erre in obscure matters nor Fathers for in your principles all might erre nor place of Scripture for you haue no meanes to knowe certainlie that it is the word of God the place not being one of your fundamentalles nor the Spirit because in not fundamentalls he assisteth not as you say and maintaine in this question or if he doth assist in this verie matter whether you call it fundamentall or not fundamentall he doth assist the Church for to the Church is the promise made 84. Thus you very wiselie haue ouer reached your selfe and left your selfe no meanes to prooue any thing against vs either in this controuersie or in any other for fundamentallie you confesse wee haue not erred and in other things by your owne principles you are not certaine Yet to gull the people you bringe texts not fundamentall according to your distinction and cry out Scripture Scripture the Gospell the word of God And if you finde a place in S. Augustine which neither your parishioners nor your selfe doe vnderstand you challenge vs to the Fathers whereas in your conscience you beleeue for certaine neither Fathers nor scripture but onelie some places which you call fundamentall neither do you acknowledge anie meanes in the world either from God or man to be sure of things not fundamentall as you tearme them as I haue shewed before and the same these your protestant arguments which followe would faine prooue 85. The first argument to this end is made against the Church in the state of the old lawe before the cōming of the Messias and therfore is nothing to the purpose because wee speake of the Christian Church as it is established by Iesus Christ and gouerned by his Spirit which Church is not limited vnto one Nation onelie but ouer all the world and therefore Catholique and of this I haue proued and wee do beleeue that in faith it is infallible Notwithstanding to maintaine the infallibilitie of the Iewish Church too before the Messias came which is an other questiō I resolue your doubt made against it You say the people of Israel did adore the brazen calfe therefore the Church all did erre You should haue prooued that all did adore the calfe that Moyses and the Leuites
doctrine and her Spiritte 126. Awake man for shame awake and looke aboute consider what you doe here is a faire waie before you and you like a bedlome runne out of it ouer shoes ouer bootes ouer head and eares imagining notwithstanding that you walke aboue heauen and that euerie steppe is on a starre The Church the Councells the Fathers Apostles Euangelists all are in errour all vnder your feete whilst your chariot is rowld vniformelie aboue the Sunne and heauen takes newe lawes from your allmightie witte I will ascend into heauen Isay 14. v. 13.14 aboue the starres of God I will exalt my throne I will sit in the mount of the Testament in the sides of the North. I will ascend aboue the height of the clowdes I will be like the highest So he that wēt before you if you prick on apace you will ouertake him for he is yet at his Inne ād there to stay an eternall night That past you may iogge on together I loue your person I wish your saluatiō but hate your heresie and make no greate account of that which you most adore your learnīg In the Schoole of errour be manie good witts There the Manichees and Ariās ād Caluinists haue their order if there be any order where no man will be second Aristotles Logicke and Tullies Rhetoricke could not make of superstition true Religion I am not in loue with Hell though in it be greate Schollers the Foulest there was once the Fairest amōge creatures for endowments or nature and strength of vnderstanding I knowe that such as did applaud his cōceipt were partners in his fall I knowe too that all the knowledge of all Pagans of all Heretiques of all aduersaries put together doth not equall the knowledge of the Church It is the Schoole of Iesus Christ who taught a thing worthie of eternall admiration a poore fisherman and on the suddaine too to speake all tongues I speake it to the confusion of such aduersaries of our Sauiour as glory in their skill in others language and do repeate againe to the Rhetoricians he suddainlie made the same man so good an Oratour that he conuerted vnto his Masters doctrine in the face of his aduersaries Act. 2 three thousand with one Sermon he so instructed his disciples in deuinitie that they conuinced Greece the worlds Academie for wit and learning persuaded Rome in the flourishing tyme of her power though she imploied all her force to frustrate their proceeding and in fine to relate many wonders in a word conuerted all the world to beleeue a man God to beleeue a most obscure and witt-transcending Creede In this Schoole wee doe learne here wee are assured of the truth The manifestation of the Spirit is giuen here To one the word of wisdome 1. Cor. 12. v. 8.9.10 To another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit To another faith in the same Spirit To another the grace of doing cures in one Spirit To another the working of miracles To another prophecie To another discerning of Spiritts To another kinds of tongues To another interpretations of languages Can you giue these things can you teach this Schoole in this sort as the Spirit doth or if you cannot as without infinite blasphemie you may not presume you can why do you endeuour to thrust out the holie Ghost and intrude your selfe into the place whie do you thus oppose the diuine ordinance and openlie wronge the sonne of God Auant Heretiques Iude v. 2. clouds without water borne about with winde raging waues of the Sea foming out your owne confusions enemies to the Church to the Scripture and to God auant Wee need not your instruction wee haue better Masters Without you the Church was planted the world conuerted the truth maintained without you the Schooles are full of Schollers the world of Martyrs heauen of Saincts without you the Church hath stoode and doth stand and so will do still The third Conclusion All Controuersies in matters of Religion are to be decided by the Spirit in the Church THE FOVRTH BOOKE WHEREIN SOME PARTIticular Controuersies are briefly discussed THE FIRST CHAPTER Of the Primacie 1. YOVR generall arguments being dispatched in the former booke I shall finde little danger or difficultie in the encounter of the rest of the disordered route and may iustlie in your owne principles contemne them all as I said before in the like occasion and must repeate it oft For whence is their strength from witte or from authoritie If from witt you must not thinke amisse of me if I preferre the witt and iudgment of many worlds of learned mē before yours which hath declared it selfe vnreasonable hetherto especiallie since all men be lyars to turne the point of your owne weapon vppon your selfe and you no God nor Angell but a man If your argumēts haue their streingth from authoritie either this authoritie is of men and this you haue refused as vncertaine because all mē are lyars and you haue laboured not onelie to disgrace the Church of later tymes and the Fathers in their age but allso to take the Apostles triping and therefore their authoritie moues not you Or this authoritie is of God in holie Scripture where he deliuers according to your distinction two sorts of points the one is of fundamentall points and in these you confesse that the Church neither doth nor can erre and therfore the ensuing controuersie is not about them as for example the Incarnation the passion and the rest which you call fundamentall The other sort of points or textes in the Bible are as you call them not-fundamentall and these you do not hold for certaine which howsoeuer you dissemble the matter is cleere for in your principles there are no meanes from God or man to knowe certainlie that they are indeede parts of Gods word or to knowe which is their true meaning Not the witte of man alone for that may erre especiallie in such an obscure point as whether this text this verse be Gods word and not the word of a man Not the Spirit for that doth assist onelie to fundamentalls you saie and these you say are not of them you must answer this heere before you goe further and knowe that of the certainty of consequences it is the same Moreouer since diuine assistance to the vnderstanding of the Scripture depends vppon Gods promise and since this promise is made vnto the Church to the Apostles and their successors you are first to prooue that you are the Church before any man is to beleeue you haue the assistance ād interprete right for arguments out of Scripture prooue nothing if they misse the sense of God and be grounded in a wronge sense For these and the like reasons I might haue forborne to make further answeare to your exceptions Notwithstanding to giue you content I will descende vnto the particular consideration of the chiefest 2. First therefore to make your waie into the Church there to spoile and aulter
the stile and phrase of speach giues them no satisfaction at all For they so disesteeme it in this respect peculiarlie that in regard of the stile and matter they professe themselues moued to beleeue the contrarie and to put it out of the number of Canonicall bookes If you answere that by the helpe of the Spiritte you discerne it you moue them not for they claime as great an interest as full a participation of the Spirit as your selues aÌ„d therefore you moue not theÌ„ to beleeue as you do But suppose if you will that all Antiquitie stoode on your side what could this preuaile to moue a Lutheran to beleeue the matter or to coÌ„firme your disciples who stagger at your want of proofe what could this auaile I say seeing that it is agreed amoÌ„gst you that the Church that all the Fathers that all men since the Apostles might haue aggreed in an errour 27. According to the grounds of our Religion euerie Catholique can answere easilie that whatsoeuer by the Church of God is receaued for diuine Scripture is infalliblie such because the Church is directed by Gods All-seeing Spirit which can discerne it well And suppose the Catholique were vnlearned aÌ„d that all of you together both LutheraÌ„s and Caluinists should preteÌ„d that in the Bookes there wanted the Spirit of truth aÌ„d seeke to maintaine this with a shewe of oppositioÌ„ either within it selfe or to some other part of Scripture or to reason which thing you doe manie times pretend as Iulian and Porphyrie and others haue done before he would answere you all without difficultie by recourse to the diuine Assistance in the Church which he takes for a principle of Christian Religion beleeued heretofore by the whole Christian world and warranted by God himselfe in cleere termes and would say that the knowledge of the Church thus assisted is more certaine then the contrarie pretense of any aduerse part whatsoeuer and she more able to espie contradiction errour or opposition theÌ„ any other is in regard of the holie Spirit who directeth her and with an infinite vnderstanding lookes earnestlie vppon All. In vertue of which assistance she hath maintained scripture against Heathens and Apostataes and misbeleeuing Iewes aÌ„d Heretiques hetherto and still doth and will doe Further more a Catholike doth not thinke it necessarie that the booke which he beleeueth to be Scripture hath beene euer vniuersallie by the Church esteemed so He knowes it is sufficient if the Catholicke Church hath at any time beleeued it For one of the Principles of our ReligioÌ„ is that the Catholike Church cannot erre at all in matter of faith it cannot erre in any age in any tyme. And this principle hath euer bene beleeued by Catholiks Moreouer that which at any tyme she beleeueth hath beÌ„ infolded in her faith at other times and so virtuallie beleeued euer and by all 29. Now to your opposition Whereas you say that of late onelie some Books haue beene taken into the canon I answere first that such Bookes as your selues doe receaue for canonicall were not all at once vniuersallie receaued in the Church but were acknowledged by degrees S. Hieron de viris illustribus in Paulo Iacobo Petro IoaÌ„ne in Ep. ad Dardan itemque in Prolog So much you knowe by those I haue allreadie named and S. Hierom can tell you more Yet are these allso by your owne confession the word of God and were such in themselues before it was generallie knowne vnto the world As our Sauiour was the naturall Sonne of God and his increated Word before the world did knowe or beleeue him so to be The reason is because mans knowledge is later then the veritie and the more obscure the thing is the longer he is ordinarilie before he can find it out Secondlie it is not so late as you thinke since these Bookes were in the Church esteemed Cit. Bellarm de Verbo Dei l. 1. Vide Baron an 415 August Ep 235. de doct Chr. l. 2. c. 8. Innocent Ep. 3. ad Exuper c. 7. Can. SaÌ„cta Rom d. 15. Ierem. 36. canonicall and diuine though not so generallie as I noted before for you finde them cited for such in the Fathers writings verie oft and in the councell of carthage held in the tyme of Boniface twelue hundred yeares agoe you haue a Catalogue of them all the verie same which you finde now deliuered by the couÌ„cell of Trent sauing onlie that Baruch which the auncient Fathers did acknowledge allso for diuine is after the manner of those tymes comprized with Ieremie whose Secretarie you know he was I adde thirdlie that whereas S. Augustine who subscribed to the foresaid councell doth prescribe a rule for yonge Deuines to finde which Scripture is of greatest authoritie bidding them preferre that which all Churches doe receaue before that which is receaued onlie by some Churches or some part wee now seeing the foresaid canon receaued at length by the whole Church of God and this declared in a Generall Councell must and doe yeauen by S. Augustines rule receaue it all as the word of God and consequentlie of one and the same Authoritie all there being no surer ground of mans faith in such a case then is the Spirit of God in the Church The like I answere them allso who runne to the Iewes canon for the Spirit of the christian Church is no lesse able to discerne a veritie then they were and therefore if the christian Church at anie tyme declare a Booke to be diuine though the Iewes knewe it not wee beleeue it and must For the holie Ghost cannot erre The Iewes knewe not all that God hath taught his Church 30. The second exception is vnreasonable if you consider well what is done and the reason of it All Schollers as you knowe doe noe not addict their studies to the toÌ„gues the Hebrewe is so obscure that fewe doe attaine vnto anie reasonable knowledge of it and none at all in these later times especiallie to the comprehension of the tongue but by helpe of Dictionaries compiled by such as come short of the thing it selfe Of the 〈…〉 or of moderne Iewes not equall to the learned of the tyme wherein the Bookes were first written do endeuour what they can This experience hath taught vs Elias 〈…〉 in Habâ—â—â— Vide Genebrard in Psal 104. Serrar Prol. Bibl. c. 19. q. 6. Aliquoties dixi plurima vocabula esse quorum significatio ipsis etiam Hebraeis ignota est Luth. in Gen. c. 34 it is euident also in the continuation and transfusion of all languages to posteritie and Rabbines themselues doe confesse it In regard therefore that Schollers commonlie vnderstand not Hebrewe it hath euer beene thought conuenieÌ„t the Scripture should be translated into such a language as generallie they doe knowe which is Latine In the primitiue Church this was practised and among you it is allowed allso in so much that your predecessors Luther Caluin Beza Iunius and others
haue made euerie one his owne translation to binde his fellowes there vnto as the best and you haue not yet done translating and changing your translations whereas none of you can denie and all wise men doe see that if one translation could be generallie aggreed vppon it were best Now further because elder tymes as being neerer to the writers had better helpes and purer coppies it is better in the iudgment of all meÌ„ the translation be old and made in those tymes rather then now in this scarcitie of coppies this obscuritie of the language this want of the meanes which then were CoÌ„c Trid Sess 4. This considered the Catholique Church hath decreed in the Councell of Trent that among Latine translations the old and common by the longe vse of many ages approoued in the Church stand authentique and be taken for It is not any where declared by the Church that in the Clementine Edition the Vulgar Latine Translation is fullie restored to the Primitiue Integritie in all parts and words Our beleefe doth follow the declaration of the Church VVhat she defineth wee receaue THOSE who were vsed in the restitution of the Translation saie thus Accipa Christiano lector CLEMENTE summo Pontifico ANNVENTE veterem ac vulgatam Sacra Scripturae editionem quanta fieri potuit diligentia castigatam quam quidem sicut omnibus numeris absolutam pro humana imbecillitate affirmare deffieile est ita caeteris omnibus quae ad hanc vsque diem prodierunt emendatiorem purioremque esse minimè dubitandum Praefat. ad lect Some of Sixtus Bibles might be surreptitiously scattered and Iames might get a coppie but they were neuer openlie sould in Catholike Countries And the Church neuer beleeued the Correction to be so accurate that it could not be amended Decree of a Generall Councell for the fullnes of either correction I speake of them as of two in that sense as Iames doth you knowe there is none A Bull takes not force from the Printer nor from the Secretarie and Iames cannot prooue that Sixtus his Bull was euer authenticallie published By the records no such thing appeares The Church knowes not of it If it had bene it were not hard to accord all Remember what hath ben said in the former Chapter touching pretended opposition in Decrees and what I haue â—eere cited out of the Preface to the Bible such I tould you before wise men would haue but One aÌ„d this one to haue bene made long agoe when it might better be performed and to be lookt on by diuers able to iudge of the goodnes and better able and more impartiall then our selues Whence it followes that the wisest had not the decree at all bene made would yet haue chosen this it being the Old and coÌ„mon translation For it was made in the tyme of the Primitiue Church reuiewed in those daies by S. Hierome compared since by learned men in all ages to such originalls as in each age they could finde and vsed by the Church for manie hundred yeares 30. The Fountaines wee reuerence too and more fullie then you doe admitting and beleeuing whatsoeuer can be manifestlie prooued to belonge iustlie thereunto to the verie last word and letter And it is ignorance in you to say that in the Councell of Trent they be reiected The decree speakes of Latine editions onelie ex omnibus latinis editionibus quae circumferuntur c. and makes choise of one by generall vse loÌ„g before approoued True it is that the puritie of the fountaine it selfe in some places is called in question Calu. in in zach 11. inst l. 1. c 13. and Caluin your Master doth imagine that it runnes not allwaies cleerlie as you may see in his Institutions Luth. Enar in Esa c 9. Luther cryeth out on the Iewes for crucifying the text and what difficultie the Rabbines theÌ„selues haue appeares cleerely by their great Massoreth Wee haue more helpe then you all to knowe the truth in this question too wee admitte the doctrine of Tradition so must the Iewes so must you otherwise you know not which is text Wee haue allso the assistance of the holie Spirit in the Church to declare the veritie aÌ„d power of originalls where the generall necessitie of the Church doth require it and there is no Catholique in the world which is not readie to beleeue their puritie and integritie so farre as there is sufficient warrant for it 31. But how came these corruptions into the Bible this question you should haue putt vnto your Masters for my part I thinke the resolution of it nothing at all necessarie for our purpose Writers might easilie mistake especiallie considering the little difference of many Hebrewe Characters and the nicenes of the points and suppose the points be taken of there will be found some fault in the letters I knowe the Iewes are men and therefore if Gods assistance be not in the businesse their labour in counting letters giues me no securitie for how shall I knowe that their coppies were exact that the letters be dulie ordered c. which is requisite because the disposition and combination of the same letters may be diuers not onelie in one period which may serue to change the sense but in the same verie word and of the integritie in this kinde which is necessarie to the knowledge of the sense as also of the exact integritie of the Coppies which they numbred you can giue no generall warrant Againe besides the difficultie or impossibilitie of this you will be sore troubled yea it is vnpossible for you proceeding in your Protestant Principles to giue satisfaction yeauen to your owne fellowes in any part of Scripture whatsoeuer because you maintaine that all men notwithstanding the promise which God hath made vnto the Church may haue erred and consequentlie S. Ierom and S. Augustine aÌ„d others being men may likewise haue done so in determining or iudging which Scripture or writing is diuine especiallie since each part each verse is not a fundameÌ„tall as you speake I am not troubled at all in the busines but let the learned scanne the difficulties and sift things out remaining euer readie to beleeue what the Church hath or hereafter shall resolue touching the puritie the interpretation and sense of the whole or any part place or word of the text you and your Protestant Congregation with your distinction of fundamentall and not fundamentall haue no meanes to determine the integritie of the Scripture touching bookes parts verses words interpretation as in an other place I haue declared more at large THE SIXT CHAPTER Of the reall Presence 33. VVHen wee dispute you graunt the Reall Presence not able otherwise to make answere to Scripture and Antiquitie but when you dispute you declare manifestly that you beleeue it not You will not beleeue you say that the body of a man can be vnder the forme or shape of breade that the same thing can be in heauen and on the alter too If
he doth not say they are beleeued onelie to be but they allso are that which they are beleeued to be and so are that they may be and are adored So then Theodoret is no Figurist nor Protestant in this point 60. The fourth Argument is taken out of Scripture Our Sauiour tooke breade therefore he gaue breade Answere Matt. 26. It doth not follow because after he tooke it he changed it by consecration into his bodie and then it was not breade but flesh in the shape and forme of breade it was heauenlie breade the breade of life after consecration but after cōsecratiō it was not bakers breade that he gaue was the same with that he tooke in outward shape but the interiour substance was not the same 61. I haue turned the rest of your forces against your felfe I will now turne this allso and make my first argument for the change of breade into the bodie and wine into blood which change or conuersion we call transubstantiation out of this place of Scripture thus Before consecration the thing in the dimensions and shape of breade was breade after consecration the thing in those dimensions was the bodie of Christ This is my bodie therefore it was changed Matt. 26. Hoc quidem sapè diximus quod nunc quoque repetā retineri reipsa nō posse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in his Christi verbis hoc est corpus meum quin transsubstantiatio Papistica statuatur Beza de caena cont westphal vol. 1 tr 6. Gene. 1582. The same argumēt I make of the cuppe for if blood hath succeeded vnto wine there is a change made but after consecratiō blood hath succeeded vnto wine for it is blood after consecration This is my blood and before it was not blood but wine 62. A second argument I make out of the iudgment of the Fathers and the Church Primitiue If the Fathers did beleeue that before consecration the things proposed were breade ād wine ād that after consecratiō there was not cōmon breade ād wine but the bodie and blood of Christ then did those Fathers beleeue an inward substantiall change in those formes for this comes not to passe without a change as he who beleeues the drinke in the cuppe to be water when it is brought to the table and afterwards to be wine and nor water doth acknowledge a change for were there no mutation it would be still as it was at first water and not wine But the Fathers did beleeue that those things before consecration were breade and wine as you also do confesse and that after consecration there was not breade and wine in those formes but the bodie and blood of Christ as I haue declared in the former Chapter therefore thy beleeued an inward change 63. Thirdlie the Fathers in expresse termes do teach this change or conuersion which wee speake of I haue cited them before S. Amb. d◠Myst init c. 9. Ibid. Id. l. 4. de Sacr. c. 4. S. Ambrose It is not that which nature made but that which the blessing hath consecrated The power of consecration is greater then the power of nature for by consecration the verie nature it selfe is chāged This breade is breade before the Sacramentall words but when consecration comes of breade it is made the flesh of Christ S. Chrysostome S. Chrys hom de Euch. in Encoen As waxe ioyned with fire is likened vnto it so as nothing of the substance of it remaineth nothing aboundeth so here conceaue the mysteries to be consumed with the substance of the bodie of Christ The things set before vs are not the workes of humane power wee hold but the place of Ministers Idem hom 83 in Mat it he Christ who doth sanctifie and change these things S. Cyrill of Ierusalem S. Cyr. Hier. Catech 1. The breade and wine of the Eucharist before the sacred inuocation of the adored Trinitie were simple breade and wine but the inuocation being once donne the breade indeade is made the bodie of Christ and the wine his blood Id. Catech 3. He Christ once changed water into wine ād is he not worthie to be beleeued of vs that he hath changed wine into blood that which appeareth bread is not breade but the bodie of Christ Id. Cat. 4. S. Gauden in Ex. tr 2 Sainct Gaudentius Bisshop of Brixia The Lord and Creator of Natures that of earth made breade againe because he can doe it and hath promised to doe it of breade makes his owne bodie and he that of water made wine now of wine hath made his bloode S. Cyr. Alex Ep. ad Calosyr S. Cyrill of Alexandria That wee should not feele horrour to see flesh and blood on the sacred Altars God condescending to our frailtie doth flowe into the things offered the power of life conuerting them into the veritie of his owne flesh to the end the bodie of life be foūd as a certaine quickning seed in vs. S. Greg. Nyss orat Catec c. 37 S. Gregorie Nissen I do rightlie and with good reasō beleeue that breade being sanctified by Gods word is changed into the bodie of God the word The same Father saith that our Sauiour did transelement the nature of bread into his bodie Ibid. and of wine into his blood I haue cited more to this purpose in the former Chapter This doth abundantlie prooue Antiquitie to haue beleeued the change of breade and wine into the bodie and blood of Christ which change in regard it is of one whole Substance into another Substance vnder the same Accidents vnder which first the one is and then the other wee call Transubstantiatiō These witnesses whose testimonie I haue here produced were eminent men in the Church they were knowne Saincts in the communion of the Christian world and by them wee knowe the minde of the rest in their communion 64. Fourthlie wee haue this change declared by the Church in generall Councells in the greate Laterane Councell in the tyme of Innocentius the third Conc. Lat. c. 3. Con. Flor. in Decreto Eug. quod decretum factū esse in publica Synodali sessione patet ex fine confer cum fine Concilij dum hac gerebantur c. Conc. Trid sess 13. ean 2. Againe in the Coūcell of Florence and last of all at Trent If you should heere obiect that such a conuersion were not possible I would send you backe againe to S. Gregorie to learne of him the possibilitie Nature can turne breade into flesh wine into blood why then cannot God It is easier to make flesh of some thing then of nothing God made the world of nothing It is easier to change then to create Our Sauiour turned water into wine Aaron his rod was turned into a serpent and the same power could turne the serpent againe into a rod. Gods power is infinite and therefore finds no difficultie he cā turne wine into blood Vt sint qua erant in aliud commutencuae
of it which he declares largelie in old Heretiques and the same wee see in the moderne by experience and then concludes that it is therefore verie necessarie in regard of so many windings of errour to direct the line of propheticall and Apostolicall interpretation according to the rule of the ecclesiasticall and Catholique sense 83. This is heere sufficient for Traditions diuine and Apostolicall which the Spiritte of the Church being to leade vnto all truth doth distinguish from such as are false and superstitious and doth easilie defend against all you can say The Scripture hath not one word against them as anie man will easilie see who doth but marke what he doth reade and will not take speaking for writing which the most ignorant with attention can distinguish in them selues being able to doe the one and not the other And the Fathers are cleere as you haue seene requiring euer tradition as indeed it is required for the Scripture and for the sense though the written word be perfect within its owne bouÌ„ds You allso though you loath it neuer so much must needs admitte of it for the Scripture for the number of Canonicall bookes for the pars of them for the sense and for other things you being not able anie other way in the world to answeare anie man who would denie them or to persuade him to beleeue that you haue the word of God or anie part of it Moreouer this doctrine is by generall consent of the Church defined in the Councells of Nice and Trent and hath beene the meanes whereby the Catholique Church hath conserued vntill now the word of God and therefore the contrarie open Heresie being opposite vnto Gods expresse words which I haue put downe in the begining of this chapter and to the beleefe of the old Fathers of generall Councells and of the Church 84 The text all scripture is profitable c. is answeared in the first booke c. 4. It is profitable true but it is not all sufficient It is sufficient too in one kinde for the written word but nor in all kinds not all-sufficient Tradition and diuine Assistance are necessarie too each in their kinde doth concurre Tradition is more generall then writing it deliuers the scripture and the sense of it and can teach also without writing and did before the Scripture was extant This Tradition relieth vppon the diuine Assistance whereof I haue discoursed largelie the third booke and neede not repeate it heere Particular causes in this lower world are sufficient in their kinde a horse to generate a horse a man to generate a man but the effect is not produced without the concurrence of higher causes The Sunne and a man saith the Philosopher produce a man The inferiour and superiour causes are sufficient in their kinds and yet vnles the prime and most vniuersall cause doth concurre nothing is produced You are to prooue that the Scriture is sufficient in all kinds if you will exclude tradition To all your peaching your mouth is profitable and sufficient too in that kinde you need not two mouthes but wthout a tongue you cannot doe it Mouth and tongue are profitable and sufficient in their kindes but you cannot doe it without braines braines and witte are profitable and sufficient in their kinds but all will not serue without learning So that you see the argument is not good it is profitable and to all therefore all-sufficient 85. And thus I am come at last to the end of this part also hauing answeared the chiefest things which you oppose in the decrees of the Church and shewed how the Church representatiue is vniustlie accused of errour The Decrees of generall Councells were beleeued before Caluin had any Schoole and will be when he hath neuer a Scholler In them is the highest TEACHING AVTHORITIE in the world and therefore the Schollers of Iesus Christ must beleeue what they define The sheepe are not to choose their pasture ould wiues and plowmen are not to decide Controuersies in Religion they are not to asceÌ„d the Chaire and expound Scripture to the world No the Pastors must doe this Mat. 28. Act. 20.10.21 Ephes 4. The Apostles aÌ„d their successors were sent to teach God put Bisshops to rule the Church he charged Peeter to feede his flocke The pastors are to teach The sheepe to learne 86. In generall Councells the Pastors are are assembled their Authoritie is vnited there to moue the Whole to teach the Church The Church is to followe their common direction and therefore it belonges to Gods prouidence to assist them defining And the whole Church vniuersallie doth beleeue that such Councells are assisted and cannot erre learned vnlearned people and Pastors all beleeue it and all the Church as I shewed you before cannot erre The Apostles did beleeue it allso and so vnderstood the promise of Iesus Christ Act. 15. Io. 16. when he said that the holie Ghost should teach them all truth God rules and moues the lower world by the higher The heauens vertue doth begette and conserue things heere on earth To the heauens for the regularitie of their Motion he hath addicted an Intelligence Our Sauiour hath so disposed his Church that the Laitie are mooued and gouerned in matters of Religion by the Clergie Rom. 20. Rom. 10. The Pastors begette and conserue in the people faith by preaching the the word of God And to the Pastors for the Regularitie of their Motion he hath left an Assisting Spirit Io. 16. the Holie Ghost the Spirit of Truth The Christian truth is to be learned in the Schoole of Iesê° Christ this Schoole is the the Catholique Church The highest CHAIER in it is a Perfect Oecumenicall COVNCELL No man hath or can with any apparence pretend as will appeare in the examination a fuller participation of the TEACHING POWER then such a Councell 87. To make an end therefore coÌ„sider well what I do saie That definitioÌ„ which the Catholique Church vniuersallie Of Church proposition there is more in the third booke where I haue allso told you how the diuine authoritie aÌ„d the Church authoritie doe moue both in seuerall kinds to the same acte doth take for a sufficâ—eÌ„â— direction of her faith by way of Proposition IS FREE froÌ„ errour Otherwise the Catholique Church vniuersallie might erre which is vnpossible as I haue declared in the third booke Now the Catholique Church vniuersallie doth take the definition of the Councell which SHEE ESTEEMETH Oecumenicall to be a sufficient direction of her faith by waye of Proposition as I haue declared there also And hence it comes that the definition of a Councell ESTEEMED by the Catholique Church Oecumenicall is free froÌ„ errour Will you haue another way without recourse to such a Councell Take this What the Bisshops diffused those I meane who are in the Catholique communioÌ„ do vniformelie teach is true If you should oppose that they are many and that you cannot know the doctrine of them all being diffused I would answere that by their communion with the See Apostolique their doctrine is knowne sufficiently for this purpose aÌ„d their communion is very manifest vnto all Where you must note that it is the exteriour professioÌ„ which I atteÌ„d vnto PropositioÌ„ this is easilie knowne and this as farre as it is vniforme in ALL Bishops in the Catholique communioÌ„ be they many or few so they be all is WARRANTED by the Holie Ghost and by this exteriour proposition or commoÌ„ doctrine whatsoeuer els any of them thinke secretly in their mindes I am to be directed Ephes 4. Mat. 28.10.16 He Christ gaue Pastors that wee be not wauering Teach all Nations and behold I am with you The spirit of truth shall teach you all truth If you dispute againe meddle not with points not yet agreed vppon among vs. Talke not of things controuerted in our Schooles at this daie The proposition which you oppose if you will oppose me must be a Catholique proposition agreed on generally by the Church Other things I can dispute in our owne Schooles and with such as know them better then you doe