Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n
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A43971
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The art of rhetoric, with A discourse of the laws of England by Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury.; Art of rhetoric
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Hobbes, Thomas, 1588-1679.
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1681
(1681)
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Wing H2212; ESTC R7393
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151,823
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382
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Doctrine Heresie but Justice Stamford leaves it out because when Heresie was a Crime it was a Plea of the Mitre I see also in this Catalogue of Causes Criminal he inserteth costly Feeding costly Apparel and costly Building though they were contrary to no Statute 'T is true that by evil Circumstances they become sins but these sins belong to the Judgment of the Pastors Spiritual A Justice of the Temporal Law seeing the Intention only makes them sins cannot judge whether they be sins or no unless he have power to take Confessions Also he makes flattery of the King to be a Crime How could he know when one Man had flattered another He meant therefore that it was a Crime to please the King And accordingly he citeth divers Calamities of such as had been in times past in great favour of the Kings they serv'd as the Favourites of Hen. 3. Ed. 2. Rich. 2. Hen. 6. which Favourites were some imprisoned some banished and some put to death by the same Rebels that imprisoned banished and put to death the same King upon no better ground than the Earl of Strafford the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury and King Charles the first by the Rebels of that time Empson and Dudley were no Favourites of Hen. the 7th but Spunges which King Hen. the 8th did well Squeeze Cardinal Woolsey was indeed for divers years a favourite of Hen. the 8th but fell into disgrace not for flattering the King but for not flattering him in the business of Divorce from Queen Katharine You see his Reasoning here see also his Passion in the words following We will for some Causes descend no lower Qui eorum vestigiis insistunt eorum exitus perhorrescant this is put in for the Favourite that then was of King James But let us give over this and speak of the legal Punishments to these Crimes belonging Of Punishments ANd in the first place I desire to know who it is that hath the power for an Offence committed to define and appoint the special manner of Punishment for suppose you are not of the Opinion of the Stoicks in old time that all faults are equal and that there ought to be the same Punishment for killing a Man and for killing a Hen. La. The manner of Punishment in all Crimes whatsoever is to be determined by the Common-Law That is to say if it be a Statute that determins it then the Judgment must be according to the Statute if it be not specified by the Statute then the Custome in such Cases is to be followed But if the Case be new I know not why the Judge may not determine it according to Reason Ph. But according to whose reason If you mean the natural Reason of this or that Judge authorized by the King to have cognisance of the Cause there being as many several Reasons as there are several Men the punishment of all Crimes will be uncertain and none of them ever grow up to make a Custome Therefore a Punishment certain can never be assigned if it have its beginning from the natural Reasons of deputed Judges no nor from the natural of the Supream Judge For if the Law of Reason did determine Punishments then for the same Offences there should be through all the World and in all times the same Punishments because the Law of Reason is Immutable and Eternal La. If the natural Reason neither of the King nor of any else be able to prescribe a Punishment how can there be any lawful Punishment at all Ph. Why not For I think that in this very difference between the rational Faculties of particular Men lyeth the true and perfect reason that maketh every Punishment certain For but give the authority of defining punishments to any Man whatsoever and let that Man define them and right Reason has defin'd them Suppose the Definition be both made and made known before the Offence committed For such authority is to trump in Card-playing save that in matter of Government when nothing else is turn'd up Clubs are Trump Therefore seeing every Man knoweth by his own Reason what Actions are against the Law of Reason and knoweth what Punishments are by this authority for every evil action ordained it is manifest Reason that for breaking the known Laws he should suffer the known Punishments Now the person to whom this authority of defining Punishments is given can be no other in any place of the World but the same Person that hath the Soveraign Power be it one Man or one assembly of Men For it were in vain to give it to any Person that had not the power of the Militia to cause it to be executed for no less power can do it when many Offenders be united and combin'd to defend one another There was a Case put to King David by Nathan of a rich Man that had many Sheep and of a poor Man that had but one which was a tame Lamb The rich Man had a stranger in his House for whose entertainment to spare his own Sheep he took away the poor Mans Lamb. Upon this Case the King gave Judgment surely the Man that hath done this shall die What think you of this Was it a Royal or Tyrannical Judgment La. I will not contradict the Canons of the Church of England which acknowledgeth the King of England within his own Dominions hath the same Rights which the good Kings of Israel had in theirs nor deny King David to have been one of those good Kings But to punish with death without a precedent Law will seem but a harsh proceeding with us who unwillingly hear of Arbitrary Laws much less of Arbitrary Punishments unless we were sure that all our Kings would be as good as David I will only ask you by what Authority the Clergy may take upon them to determine or make a Canon concerning the power of their own King or to distinguish between the Right of a good and an evil King Ph. It is not the Clergy that maketh their Canons to be Law but it is the King that doth it by the Great Seal of England and it is the King that giveth them power to teach their Doctrines in that that he authoriseth them publickly to teach and preach the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles according to the Scriptures wherein this Doctrine is perspicuously contained But if they had derogated from the Royal Power in any of their Doctrines published then certainly they had been too blame nay I believe that had been more within the Statute of premunire of 16 Rich. 2. c. 5. than any Judge of a Court of Equity for holding Pleas of Common Law I cite not this Precedent of King David as approving the breach of the great Charter or justifying the Punishment with loss of Life or Member of every Man that shall offend the King but to shew you that before the Charter was granted in all Cases where the Punishments were not prescribed it was the King only that could prescribe them
Youth of Greece but by Competition for such Employment they hated and reviled one another with all the bitter Terms they could invent and very often when upon Occasion they were in Civil Company fell first to Disputation and then to Blows to the great trouble of the Company and their own shame Yet amongst all their reproachful words the name of Heretick came never in because they were all equally Hereticks their Doctrine not being theirs but taken upon Trust from the aforesaid Authors So that though we find Heresie often mentioned in Lucian and other Heathen Authors yet we shall not find in any of them Haereticus for a Heretick And this Disorder among the Philosophers continued a long time in Greece and Infecting also the Romans was at the greatest in the times of the Apostles and in the Primitive Church till the time of the Nicene Council and somewhat after But at last the Authority of the Stoicks and Epicureans was not much Esteemed only Plato's and Aristotle's Philosophy were much in Credit Plato's with the better sort that founded their Doctrine upon the Conceptions and Ideas of things and Aristotle's with those that reasoned only from the names of Things according to the Scale of the Categories Nevertheless there were always though not New Sects of Philosophy yet New Opinions continually arising La. But how came the word Heretick to be a Reproach Ph. Stay a little After the Death of our Saviour his Apostles and his Disciples as you know dispersed themselves into several parts of the World to Preach the Gospel and converted much People especially in Asia the less in Greece and Italy where they Constituted many Churches and as they Travelled from place to place left Bishops to Teach and Direct those their Converts and to appoint Presbyters under them to Assist them therein and to Confirm them by setting forth the Life and Miracles of our Saviour as they had receiv'd it from the Writings of the Apostles and Evangelists whereby and not by the Authority of Plato or Aristotle or any other Philosopher they were to be Instructed Now you cannot doubt but that among so many Heathens converted in the time of the Apostles there were Men of all Professions and Dispositions and some that had never thought of Philosophy at all but were intent upon their Fortunes or their Pleasures and some that had a greater some a lesser use of Reason and some that had studied Philosophy but professed it not which were commonly the Men of the better Rank and some had Professed it only for their better Abstinence and had it not farther than readily to talk and wrangle and some were Christians in good earnest and others but Counterfeit intending to make use of the Charity of those that were sincere Christians which in those times was very great Tell me now of these sorts of Christians which was the most likely to afford the fittest Men to propagate the Faith by Preaching and Writing or Publick or private Disputation that is to say who were fittest to be made Presbyters and Bishops La. Certainly those who caeteris paribus could make the best use of Aristotle's Rhetorick and Logick Ph. And who were the most prone to Innovation La. They that were most confident of Aristotle's and Plato's their former Masters Natural Philosophy For they would be the aptest to wrest the Writings of the Apostles and all Scriptures to the Doctrine in which their Reputation was engag'd Ph. And from such Bishops and Priests and other Sectaries it was that Heresie amongst the Christians first came to be a Reproach For no sooner had one of them Preached or Published any Doctrine that displeased either the most or the most Leading Men of the rest but it became such a Quarrel as not to be decided but by a Council of the Bishops in the Province where they Lived wherein he that would not submit to the General Decree was called an Heretick as one that would not reliquish the Philosophy of his Sect the rest of the Council gave themselves the name of Catholicks and to their Church the name of Catholick Church And thus came up the opposite Terms of Catholick and Heretick La. I understand how it came to be a Reproach but not how it follows that every Opinion condemned by a Church that is or calls it self Catholick must needs be an Error or a Sin The Church of England denies that Consequence and that Doctrine as they hold cannot be proved to be Erroneous but by the Scripture which cannot Err but the Church being but men may both Err and Sin Ph. In this Case we must consider also that Error in it's own Nature is no Sin For it is Impossible for a Man to Err on purpose he cannot have an Intention to Err and nothing is Sin unless there be a sinful Intention much less are such Errors Sins as neither hurt the Common-wealth nor any private Man nor are against any Law Positive or Natural such Errors as were those for which Men were burnt in the time when the Pope had the Government of this Church La. Since you have told me how Herefie came to be a name tell me also how it came to be a Crime And what were the Heresies that first were made Crimes Ph. Since the Christian Church could declare and none else what Doctrine were Heresies but had no power to make Statutes for the punishment of Hereticks before they had a Christian King it is manifest that Heresie could not be made a Crime before the first Christian Emperor which was Constantine the Great In his time one Arius a Priest of Alexandria in Dispute with his Bishop Publickly denyed the Divinity of Christ and Maintained it afterwards in the Pulpit which was the Cause of a Sedition and much Blood shed both of Citizens and Souldiers in that City For the preventing of the like for the time to come the Emperor called a General Council of Bishops to the City of Nice who being met he exhorted them to agree upon a Confession of the Christian Faith promising whatsoever they agreed on he would cause to be observed La. By the way the Emperor I think was here a little too Indifferent Ph. In this Council was Established so much of the Creed we now use and call the Nicene Creed as reacheth to the words I believe in the Holy Ghost The rest was Established by the 3 General Councils next succeeding By the words of which Creed almost all the Heresies then in being and especially the Doctrine of Arius were Condemn'd So that now all Doctrines Published by Writing or by Word and repugnant to this Confession of the first four General Councils and contained in the Nicene Creed were by the Imperial Law forbidding them made Crimes such as are that of Arius denying the Divinity of Christ that of Eutiches denying the 2 Natures of Christ that of the Nestorians denying the Divinity of the Holy Ghost that of the Anthropomorphites that of the Manichees that