meates and prescribed obseruation of daies Apoc. 5. because the Prophet highly commendeth a spirituall fast Esay 48. I wil speake a few words both of the one and other that I may cleerly quit vs of this crime of Homonymie Saint Iohn alone hath not named all p DVR By this argument you may as well proue the Iewes had no Priests properly so called WHIT. pag. 809. Not so for the Lord ordained such a Priesthood amongst them which he hath not amongst Christians Christians Priests 1. Pet. 2.5.9 but S. Peter also hath tearmed them a holy and a royall Priesthood and this name is in no place of the new Testament q DVR So the name Sacrament is neuer giuen to Baptisme nor to the Eucharist in the New testament WHIT. pag. 810. But the substance of it agreeth to them both and is there whereas the name Sacerdos a Priest is not in the nevv Testament nor doth the thing it selfe properly belong to any but Christ since his death DVR Yea Christ instituted a sacrifice in his Supper and where a sacrifice is there is a Priest also WHIT. pag. 810. Christ ordeined theÌ„ no sacrifice but only a Sacrament of a sacrifice DVR Esay calleth the Mâ—nisters of the Gospell Priests cap. 6â— 6 66.21 WHIT. Esay in the first place speaketh of all Christians and in the second of Ministers in the phrase of that time vvhence also you may as well say Deacons are Leuites vvhich you vvill not say they are propeâ—ly DVR Ministers are needlesse except they be Priects and as mediators betwixt God and men vnto saluation and your Ministers are but Lay-men WHIT. pag. 810. â—15 They must preach the Word and administer the Sacraments but not offer sacrifice of mediation betwixt God and men as you say you do in the Masse to do these we haue a calling ordeined of Christ for your sacrifice you haue none DVR The Apostles name them not Priests because they are not of the order of Aaron but the Fathers call them Priests who knevv the Apostles mâ—aâ—ing and you call them Priests in English WHIT pag. 812. Christ only is a Priest after the order of Melchisedecke Heb. 7.3 so then there be no Priests at all you confesse the Fathers call them so by custome but not properly the Apostles of purpose abstaining froÌ„ the name of Priests might teach vs hereafter better vvisdome to do so also properly applied to the Ministers of the Gospell For Christ being made an high Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedech hath no copartners of this r DVR True for it is Christ that presenteth himselfe in the sacrifiâ—e vve onely are as ministers WHIT. p. 814. If you be Ministers only then are you not properly Priests why then will you be so called DVR Yet vve as truely sacrifice as baptise WHIT. Thus you will be Ministers only and no Priests nor be copaâ—tners in Christs sacrifice yet you will bâ— tearmed Priests and truly sacrifice these be contraries and cannot stand together yea meere madnes and dotages Priesthood therefore Christ hath left vnto his Churches a Ministerie and not a new Priesthood Neither doth there remaine to vs Å¿ DVR Thus you strippe the Gospell of all sacrifice and â—eligion WHIT. pag. 816. 817. All your religion by this your doctrine is in your Masse which we willingly haue not but notwithstanding we haue the sacrifice of Christ which is perpetuall and inchangeable Heb. 7 2â— 28 and 10.14 your inuisible sacrifice the Scripture knoweth not any such sacrifice for the administration whereof some speciall Priests must needs be authorised For that sacrifice of praise and doing good Hebr. 13.15.16 which the Apostle mentioneth and which now remaineth onely that I say appertaineth indifferently to all Christians Notwithstanding we permit none to execute the administration of this ministery which Christ would haue to be perpetuall in his Church but them whom it concerneth and who are by due order t DVR VVho called Luther Caluin Beza c. your Ministers WHIT. pag. 820. Luther Zuinglius Bucer c. were Priests of your owne and so had a calling except your order of Priesthood be no calling and might call others by your law Againe God is not tied so to order but that he may for the good of the Church call Ministers extraordinarily And the Churches haue lavvfull povver to chuse Ministers so that we need not to call any from you that seruice as saith Cyprian Epist. 68. Thus were Caluiâ— and Beza chosen called thereunto Albeit then Christ haue made vs all both Kings that we might be able to subdue our sinnes and Priests that we might offer him spirituall sacrifices notwithstanding as it is not lawfull for euery man to dreame of a kingdome so it is a thing detestable for any man to enter vpon the holy Ministery who hath not that function committed vnto him by diuine authoritie Wherefore I see not at all why you should charge vs with any such Homonymy or falshood from ambiguous signification in this word As for your maner of fasting that indeed is wholly in shew and hath nothing in it of a Christian fast but the very name For to make choyce of meates as a thing more religious and to prescribe certaine and perpetuall set dayes wherein we must necessarily fast the u DVR This sauoureth of Luthers spirit but Pope Leo saith that the holy Ghost taught the Apostles the disciplâ—ne of fasting for one of the chiefe Sacraments of heauenly doctrine WHIT. pag. 8â—1 c. Wee allow Christian fasting but vvhat spirit taught Leo to say so of your solemne superstitious fasts the Scriptures speake no such thing which wee preferie before all mens iudgements one is witlesse the other superstitious For what man which is not depriued of iudgement and all sense will thinke that he fasteth who so that he abstaine x DVR No Catholike euer said that the force of fasting consisteth in only abstinence from flesh WHIT. pag. 822. All men know that you call your abstinence from flesh in Lent in the Ember daies the Saint Eues c. fasting and that he who then eateth â—â—sh and other meate in abundance in not said amongst you to violate his fast but if one doe but tast flesh you esteeme him a grieeuous malefactor DVR But Elisha Daniel Iohn Baptist made religious choise of meates vvhich you thus call madnes yea Daniel absteined from flesh and vvine to apprease Gods anger vvhose example teacheth vs also to absteine from daintier meates in time of fasting as the Church hath long accustomed WHIT. pag. 823. These holy men did not fast as you doe and teach for Elisha fed the Prophets with wild and bitter herbes not for religion sake but in time of fâ—â—mine for want of other victuall 2. King 4.39 and Daniel absteined not from some only but from all desireable meates Dan. 10.3 not to appease Gods anger as you say
discouer to their Auditors and shew withall the causes of that doubt and that done leaue it vndetermined I pray you Campian what contradiction find you heere betwixt the spirit of the Caluinists and the Lutherans Yet still you cauil at this iudgement of the spirit which of all other is most certeine and heauenly and heere you produce Anabaptists Castalio Brentius Kemnitius Luther and Beza And by these you hope that you may diminish the authority of the spirit Sixt. Senens lib. 7. The Anabaptists say you call the historie of Iob a fable interlaced with tragicall and Comicall matters As though we were ignorant how wickedly and blasphemously they conceiue not only of the history of Iob but also of the whole bookes both of the new and old Testament and that spirit of the Anabaptists what was it but a kind of frency and a violent and head-strong madnes which no spirit euer did more represse then l DVR The Anabaptists will aswell accuse the spirit of Calnin of madnes and solly WHIT. pag. 119. Yet I durst make you iudge of this controuâ—â—fie vnles you were also as mad you would iudge them very vnlike the Caluinist and Lutheran spirit Why then doe you mention their madnes therby to scoffe at the certeine iudgements of the holy Ghost Prafat in Cantic Castalio say you made no more account of Salomons Song then he did of a bandy song and ribauldous talke of a Courtly waiting maide with her louer I will not take vpon me to defend all that any man hath written at randome much lesse will I trouble my selfe to defend the credit of Castalio whom I well know hath erred in many great points very shamefully Yet in this place I find you haue notably abused Castalio for in that short preface which he hath set before this booke he hath none of those you speake of neither a song nor a Loue nor courtly waiting maides nor wanton talke nor any such thing but hath truly learnedly and modestly in few words comprised the summe of the whole booke his first words are these A conference betwixt the Sauiour and his Church Now you may see how highly Caestalio accounted of this song and how shamelesse your cauill is against him I cannot now be much offended with you for casting so many false things vpon Caluin and Luther when you are not ashamed so palpably to bely Castalio And that you say next touching the Reuelation is much like to the rest of your cauils In it say you Luther and Brentius Praefat in Apoâ—al lib. 3. cap. 24. cap. 39. and Kemnisius find I know not what lacking What is the meaning of this They find somewhat lacking do they reiect it do they disallow it you cannot say so therefore you speake faintly and diffidently They find somewhat lacking Howsoeuer if you will reade Eusebius you shall vnderstand that in it many things were found lacking and that it was not receiued of all yea plainly reiected of many But what is this to vs when as you cannot deny wee haue receiued this booke and do no lesse reuerence the mysteries that are in it then your selues and perhaps it had fitted your turne well if this booke had either perished or been of no credit at all for it doth so liuely paint out your Pope your purple whore in her colours that it cleerely discouereth to all men who is Antichrist Haue you yet any thing more against Luther Praefat. in nouum Testamentum Luther say you casteth a boue among the foure Euangelists and preferring S. Pauls Epistles farre before the three former Gospels in the end concludeth that the only Gospell of S. Iohn from henceforth is to be taken for the gay the true and the principall Gospell Luther indeed preferreth the Gospell of Iohn before the other three because he setteth downe the Acts of Christ more briefly and his Sermons more fully Now a Gospell consisteth rather in heauenly doctrine then in the history of things done Yet he denies not but that the other Gospels are well set out true and very excellent and farre is he from esteeming this the only gay and true Gospell Now this very point you speake of heere I find also in the preface of the first Epistle of S. Peter And I would intreate the Christian reader to take thorough notice of this thing so shall he easily perceiue both Luthers integritie and Campians cauilling First Luther teacheth what a Gospell is and writeth that a Gospell signifieth nothing else But the preaching and publishing of the grace and mercy of God by the Lord Christ merited and purchased to vs by his death He that either preacheth or writeth this grace and mercy of God in Christ he as Luther affirmeth teacheth the Gospell And therefore not the foure Euangelists only haue taught the Gospell but also all the Apostles haue done so too and especially Saint Paul Saint Peter in their Epistles And moreouer he affirmeth that of all those they are the best m DVR VVhat Scripture teacheth vs that be is an Euangelist which teacheth iustificatio by faith only Jf any then Luther was the best Euangelist WHIT. pag. 125. I can recken you vp many but these may suffice Esay 52 7. Rom. 10.15 Now peace â—iseth of our reconciliation with God and remission of sinnes which things faith only layes hold on Rom. 5.1 2 Cor. 5 19. Rom. 4 4. And this matter S. Paul principally in his Epistles to the Romans and Galathians hath fully and plainly handled and not Luther so much DVR But the Angell tauâ—ht no such thing Luk. 2.10 WHIT. pag 126. If you had looked to the next verse you should haue found that the Angell did teâ—ch as much in effect Euangelists who haue therein specially laboured to teach iustification by faith in Christ alone for this is the summe of the Gospell And hereupon he concludeth that the Epistles of Paul may more fitly be called the Gospell then those things Matthew Marke and Luke haue written for that he doth more fully plentifully decipher to vs the grace of God in Christ then those three whose history is for the most part spent in the declaration of the Acts and Miracles of Christ And this is the true cause wherfore he preferred the Gospell of S. Iohn and the Epistles of S. Paul before the three other Gospels whereby he neither casteth a bone among the Euangelists nor goeth about to make the Apostles partakers of his brawlings neither hath said any thing either frowardly or preposterously for why I pray you may we not say that S. Paul hath more cleerely and excellently described the power of the Crosse of Christ in his Epistles then any of the Euangelists in their historie when as by it the authoritie of the historie of the Gospell is nothing disparaged And now I doubt not but I haue sufficiently defended Luthers innocency against your rayling and outragious saucines But yet againe you assault
WHIT. pag 272. It the Arrians or any other heretike can proue the doctrine of their Churches out of the holy Scriptures they may answere the same which we doe for euery Church which holdeth the Apostles doctrine may professe that all cities village◠〈◊〉 which were religous were seasoned with their doctrine for in the Apostles time all Churches all cities all townes euery family embraced the same faith and religion which we now professe After that by little and little the purity of doctrine n DVR Tell me then from whom and in what age any doctrine of our profession was brought into the Church WHIT. pag. 277. The motion of the Sunne is so very swift that we may see it hath moued though we cannot discerne the mouing of it so such is the mystery of your iniquity that I well perceiue by the Scriptures your doctrines are not Apostolicall but the time when and the manner how they were brought in is not much to our purpose And it were too long to tell all yet heare some Your Romish Bishop a long time together was but equall to other Bishops thâ—ugh much was giuen to him for the excellency of that Church After the Christian world was diuided into foure Prouinces when he became the chiefe of the Patriarkes after this he began to challenge authority ouer other Churches and for that purpose counterfeited the Councell of Nice but he was repressed by the African Councell Then Gregory the great greatly inueyed against Iohn of Constantinople because he sought the name of vniuersall Bishop and for that ambition called him the forerunner of Antichrist Lastly Boniface the eight with a great summe obtained that honor of Phocas the Parricide And since that hee grew to that height that hee made not only Churches and Kings but the Christian Emperour himselfe to kisse his feete But see another example Time was when there were no images in Churches As that of Epiphanius proueth who rent a vaile in peeces because there was in it an image of Christ or of some Saint But in time they were receiued into the Church but no honor giuen them yet after that good Bishops brake them and cast them out againe as Gregory writeth that Serenus the Bishop of Massilia did whom he thus checketh for it In that you forbad them to be worshipped wee commend you but that you brake them we reprehend you Gregor regist lib. 7. Epist. 9. Lastly the second Nicene Councell decreed that they were not to be broken yea that they were religiously to be worshipped And thus hath it succeeded in other things as S. Paul did foretellâ—e saying The mysterie of iniquitie doth alreadie worke 2. Thess 2.7 began to be corrupted and diuers superstitions spread far and neare though the holy Fathers did as much as they could resist 2. Thess 2.7 vntill that mystery of iniquitie which tooke rooting in the very Apostles time spread it selfe o DVR VVhat can be spoken or imagined more wicked and impious WHIT. pag. 278. Then prophesied S. Paul impiously when he did so â—â—â—ell of a departing and that Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God Is this any other then that the mysterie of iniquitie should spread it selfe ouer the Church by all the parts of the Church and at length possessed it wholy Yet Antichrist that man of sinne could neuer preuaile so farre but a great multitude of the Saints remained and those whose names were written in the booke of life did vtterly abhorre all those filthie and wicked superstitions of Antichrist For in the Church of Rome it selfe euen in the worth times of it yet many were euer found who worshipped the God of their Fathers and kept themselues vnpolluted with that horrible Idolatrie And this can histories of all times witnesse which I could now recite if it were needful and reckon vp to you many houses villages townes cities and countries where Christ had many and populous Churches The p DVR This is very false for in the FloreÌ„tine Councell the Emperour Paleolus together with the Grecians and Armenians freely acknowledged the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ and imbraced the Romane faith yea and at this day they dissent from vs in few things as Icremy the Patriarke of Constantinople hath plainly written WHIT pag. 279. Why are they then of you accounted Schismatickes or vvhy obey they not the Pope why came they not to the Councell of Trent the Pope by al meanes hath sought to haue theÌ„ subiect to him but they stil coÌ„temne him to his no small griefe It is true the Emperour the Patriarke and a multitude of Bishops came to the FloreÌ„tine CouÌ„cel They agreed vvith theÌ„ in many things â—â—â—hers they dissented your TraÌ„substantiation they vtterly renouÌ„ced At that time Iesaphus their Patriarke suddenly died Eugenius the Pope instantly vrged a nevv election They denied to make any till they came to Constantinople See you not hovv vvell they agree I haue a booke of yours not of Ieremies neither vvill a small thing make me beleeue it is his for both the Grecianâ— and particularly he hath giuer great approbation of our Churches as vve find it in his vvorkes published both in Greeke and Latin Greeke Church could neuer yet be brought to ioyne it self to your Church and it is 〈◊〉 opposite to you as euer our Church was And yet you so forge these things as if the Pope of Rome long agoe had had the whole world vnder his subiection Vntill that vnhappy Monke as you say by his incestâ—â—â—â— marriage had defloured a Nunne dedicated to God by 〈◊〉 soleâ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 or vntill that quarrelling Swâ—â—â— had câ—â—spired against his country or that infamous â—â—â—â—gate had vndertaken an vsurped authority in Geâ—â—â—â— So Campian go on to raile and reuile euery good man powre out the gall of your bitternes seeing you haue vndertaken to spend all your venemous darts vpon them Luthers name is written in the book of life and his memory shal euer be sacred among all good men and your reproaches shall not be able to pearce or wound him It is a true saying that a false repreach pierceth not the skinne you call him Monke your selfe is but a Frier now Monkes were euer accounted more honest then Friers But he by incestuous marriage deâ—â—oured 〈◊〉 Nomâ—â—â— dedicated to God by solemne vow q DVR But you goe against S. Paul who directly denounced damnation to those who will marry hauing broken their first saith which is vnderstood by all the Fathers of violating the vow of single life by incestuous marriages WHIT. pag. 281. But how proue you that the Apostle vnderstaÌ„deth by that faith the vow of virginity Nay the scope of the place sheweth vs the contrary for he forbiddeth that younger widdowes whom he perswadeth to marry should be taken into that office only such as were threescore yeares old who may well abstaine from marriages follow this calling Now if they be not of this age he sheweth
true faith lay hold on the Gospell These though they may bee seene as long as they liue amongst men seeing they are men as others bee yet because neither their faith nor Gods loue which maketh them members of the Church is visible we affirme that this Church consisting of holy and faithfull men is altogether inuisible Christ is the head of this Church to this only the elect caâ— ioyne themselues wee then acknowledge another Church besides that which coÌ„teineth only Saints for so should there be no visible Church at all but what company of men soeuer vpon the earth doth professe the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets we professe that to be the true Church of Christ though many wicked men be found in it Neither are we the first who did inuent and deuise these things as you say of vs but are ready to proue theÌ„ both by the holy scripture and by authority of Antiquity Comfort then your selfe Campian as much as you can with the wits of our Vniuersity men and promise to your selfe great things from vs but see you bring more dexterity of wit or else without doubt you can neuer deceiue vs with this shallow conceit If you should propound these foolish and childish things in the populous assemblies of our Vniuersity men I perswade my selfe they would not only teare to pieces these your childish shifts but do as much by you too for abusing so shamefully their learned conceites EDMVND CAMPIAN The fourth Reason which is generall Councels AGreat controuersie for the keeping of the ceremonies of the old law which in the Primitiue Church much moued the minds of faithfull people was by a Councell gathered together of the Apostles and some elders decided Children then beleeued their Parents and sheepe their Sheepheards charging them in this sort a Act. 15 It hath pleased the holy Ghost and vs after this there were holden foure generall Councels of auncient Fathers for the rooting out of heresie which budded vp aboundantly in euery age which were of such authoritie aboue b Greg. li. 1. epist. 24. 1000. yeeres agoe that * Gregorie made the foure Councels equall to the Euangelists great honour was attributed vnto them as though it had been vnto the foure Gospels I will seeke no further euen here in our owne Countrey by an c Anno 1. Elizab. acte of Parliament the selfe same Councels doe retaine still their former force and pure authoritie which said acte I will heere alleadge And call thee thy selfe O England my most louing Countrey to witnesse If thou reuerence as thou pretendest those Councels Nic. Can. 6. Chal. act 4. 16. Constan c. 5. Eph. conc in epist. ad Nestorium Nic. con 14 Chal. act 11 Nic. conc apud Soc. lib. 1 cap. 8. Vide Chalc. can 4.15.23 then wilt thou yeeld vp the supremacie to the Bishop of the chiefe sea that is to Saint Peter Then wilt thou acknowledge vpon the altar the vnbloodie sacrifice of the bodie and blood of Christ. Then wilt thou pray the blessed Martyrs and all the Saints in Heauen to make intercession to Christ for thee Then wilt thou restraine these leacherous Apostataes from their filthie carnall copulation and open incest Then wilt thou build vp many things which now thou pullest downe and wish many things vndone which now thou doest Moreouer I promise and vndertake as occasion and time shall serue to proue that the * Campian makes all Synods equall with the Gospell Councels holden at other times and namely the Councell of Trent haue been of equall authoritie and credit with the foure first Councels Wherefore then should I not come to this place of triall securely and couragiously to marke into what corner my enemie will creepe seeing I am * This is false ancient Councels doe not confirme the Romish faith ayded with the valiant and piked garrison of all the Councels For I will alleadge both most manifest matter which he shall not be able to wrest aside and also most substantially prooued which he dare not contemptuously reiect He will perhaps goe about to trifle out the time with multiplying of many words but if you be the men that I haue alwaies taken you for you will take so good heed vnto him that he shall neither rob you of your eares nor eyes If there shall be any at all so mad as to oppose himselfe against the sages of all Christendome and those such men as for holines of life learning and antiquitie are too great to be challenged I would willingly behold that brazen face the which when I shall shâ—w you I will leaue the rest to your imaginations In the meane while I will giue you this caueat that whosoeuer affirmeth that a generall Councell * The Councell of Trent was neither a full Councell nor lawfully held And so both the Emperor and the French King haue iudged Sleidan anno 1551. lib. 33. The assemblie of certaine men duly and orderly kept and finished is of no force or authoritie the same man seemeth to me to be one of no iudgement nor of any wit and not onely an asse in diuinitie but also voide of discretion in worldly policie If euer the spirit of God illuminated the Church surely then that time is most fit to send downe the holy Ghost when the religion perfection knowledge wisdome and honour of all Churches dispersed throughout all Christendome are assembled together into one Citie and vsing all meanes both diuine and humane whereby the truth may be searched out Matth 18. they call vpon the holy Ghost promised e Joh. 14. by God vnto them that by his assistance they may establish godly lawes for the safe and wise gouernement of the Church Now let there some pettie peart hereticall Doctor leape out let him looke vp stately let him scorne and mocke let him lay all shame aside let him saucily giue iudgement of his owne iudges what game what pastime shall he make we haue spied out such a one euen Martin f Lib. de capt Bab. Luther who saith that he more esteemeth of the voices of two honest and learned men ye may well imagine his owne and Philip Melancthons if they come together in Christs name then he did of all generall Councels O worthy companie We haue found out also another of the same crue to wit g Martini Kemnitij examen Conc. Tridentini Kemnitius who hath vndertaken to examine the Councell of Trent by his owne vnreasonable giddie braine what hath he gained an euill name so that he except he preuent it by recanting shall be buried for an heriticke with Arrius whereas the Councell of Trent the elder it waxeth by so much more it shall flourish daily and continually * The famous praises of the Councell of Trent O good Lord with what diuersitie of people out of all countries with what choice of Bishops throughout all Christendome with what excellencie of Kings and Common-weales with what
370. When did I euer grant Campian so much I should certeinly doe the Fathers great iniury if I should adiudge them for Campian who are so farre different from him And for your kindred with them it is but as the Iewes were Abrahams children for if you were the children of the Fathers you would hold the faith of the Fathers For the Scribes and Pharisies were not the children of Moses because they sate in Moses chaire Neither are they the children of the Saints who hold the places of the Saints as Hierome Neither haue they the inheritance of Peter which haue not the faith of Peter as Ambrose neither ought faith to be tried by persons but persons by saith as Tertullian hath written We verily loue and duly reuerence the Fathers yet wee acknowledge but one Father in heauen and one teacher which is Christ And if you acknowledge them wholy your Fathers why doe you forsake many of their opinions therefore are these Fathers wholie on your side what is this else but dotage and to speake without witte or feare Some body said that Ambrose was bewitched by the diuell Ambrose whether any euer said it or no I neuer knew neither is it greatly materiall the best most righteous men may sometimes be so farre bewitched as they doe not in some things perceiue the truth and you doe too openly bewray your malice by labouring to raise an euill opinion of him and to make vs infamous for such speeches as may haue a good construction though at the first they seeme odious Certeinly I haue read many Papists and heard of some all passing shamelesse and malepere but more impudent then your selfe in all my life did I neuer know any There is no end of your lying you feare no mens censure there is neither faith nor truth in any thing you speake Euen now you set vpon Beza with a fresh lye He you say hath written that Hierome is as surely damned as the diuell because he was iniurious to the Apostles a blasphemous a wicked and an vngodly man That Beza affirmeth not these things I protest and aâ—ow let any man that will see the place if it be otherwise let me be accounted very infamous For as for those first words that Hierome was damned aswell aâ— the diuell either they are by malicious cauelling fetched out of some other place as all the rest are or altogether forged as the most In the place alledged there is no such thing Concerning that he saith of Iniury and Blasphemy I will set downe Beza his owne words that all men may know your impudency Euen Hierome Beza in annot noui Testam in Act. Apost cap. 23. saith Beza if it be true that Erasmus vpon this place saith of him is not only iniurious to the Apostle in that hee findeth want of moderation in this speech wherin rather appeareth his Diuine courage but also is openly blasphemous in that euen in Christ himselfe he hath found some signe of imperfection Thus far Beza the matter of his complaint is about S. Paules sharpe answere vnto the high Priest in which Hierome as Erasmus testifieth in his Dialogues against Pelagius findeth some want of moderatioÌ„ not only so but euen in Christ himself he looketh for some imperfection of piety which reports of Hierome if it be true as Erasmus affirmeth why might not Beza iustly esteeme him in the one iniurious to the Apostle in the other so blasphemous against Christ For what can bee deuised more vnworthy the Apostle then that in his answere to the high Priest he should shew too much spleene or what could be spoken more blasphemous against Christ theÌ„ that the grace wherewith he was indued was imperfect But Beza further reprehendeth Hieromes exceeding boldnes in wresting the Scriptures wherein he hath most iust cause of complaint for either Hierome wrested the Scriptures or they are so weake and easie of themselues as they may be any way turned And truly he must be very desperate that should defend Hieromes interpretations Gregorius Massonius esteemeth more of Caluin then of a thousand Augustines Luther is not moued though a thousand Austens Cyprians Churches be against him The answere is ready whosoeuer speaketh truth in that respect is more to be esteemed then a great multitude that could not discerne the truth They therfore that haue obserued the errors of the Fathers either those you haue named or the rest which heere also you recken vp Optatus Athanasius Hilarie Cyrill Epiphanius Basil Vincentius Fulgentius Lee and Gregory of Rome and haue admonished the Readers of them are so farre from malepertnes herein as that coÌ„trary they haue performed a work for the Church needfull profitable and acceptable to all good and godly men For as the true expositions of Scriptures are to bee expounded to the Churches so are the contrary to bee reiected Hierom. Paul August Hierome saith well it is the worst kind of teaching to depraue sentences of Scripture and to draw them perforce to serue our turnes Wherefore we professe with Augustine All writers and their sayings must bee i DVR That trial must not be made by Apostate Monks but by lawfull Pastors and doctors WHIT. pag. 372. And why not I pray you is it because they are Monkes I thinke not or because they haue departed froÌ„ you That is the matter as it none might touch reade examine the scriptures but those who haue plight their troth to you neuer to assent to the Scriptures though they directly coÌ„tradict popish doctrin we would willingly harkeÌ„ to lawfull Pastors examining interpreting the Scriptures such as you haue none Because with you examinatioÌ„s must not be made by the rule of the scriptures but after the wil of the Pope and all your Pastors haue tyed theÌ„selues to the iudgemeÌ„t of the Romish Antichrist that that which they see they wil not see if it displease the Pope by whose spirit they are guided iudged according to the holy Scriptures the authority wherof is more excellent then the whole nature of man is able to conceiue not that I disallow the opinions of the most worthy Fathers but I follow those that come nearest vnto the Scriptures and when the Scripture it selfe is manifest I embrace it before them all Whereas then we consider the sayings of the Fathers and examine them by the light of Scriptures we do here nothing vnwonted nothing boldly or arrogantly but you haue alwaies been fliers of the light of Scriptures as Tertullian speaketh Tertul. de Resurrect and therefore do so diligently prouide for lurking holes in the Fathers that you may alwaies haue some place of refuge For seeing Scriptures faile you what remaineth but that you seeke aide from any euen the meanest But you tell vs why we do so much anoid the Fathers I had rather you would tell vs why you doe so carefully auoide the Scriptures For say you they that cannot away with set times of Fasting must needs be
void of good workes but it is of that nature that it worketh by loue It is therefore faith alone which iustifieth that is which embraceth Christs obedience wherin our righteousnes consisteth but yet this faith which iustifieth is neuer alone for it is euer accompanied with hope and charity and doth not suffer it selfe to be disioyned from it For as the heate alone of the fire doth set the wood on fire and yet this heate is not alone but continually ioyned with the light so faith alone of it self doth iustifie albeit it can neuer be quite alone Now seeing that all our righteousnes and happines do consist in the pardon of sinnes we also teach that this ought to be most certainly perswaded to vs and knowne of vs so as our soules may rest therin as in a most safe and quiet hauen For being iustified by faith wee haue peace toward God through our Lord Iesus Christ. Now what could this peace be it we were alwaies distracted with a doubtful hope thoughts and tossed as it were with waues hither and thither about our saluation Albeit therefore our consciences are set vpon oftentimes by many terrors so as they cannot be so secure in this life as if wee did alreadie enioy the endlesse ioy of heauen yet we say that this faith ought to depend most certainly and strongly vpon the promises of God so as wee may expell all doubting about the grace of God our adoption and saluation For true faith cannot agree with vnbeliefe It is the propertie of this to distrust Gods promises but the property of that is to ouercome and driue away all doubting as much as may be But if faith be full of doubting wherein doth it go beyond vnbeliefe let vs beleeue the Apostle who both knew very well and hath described exactly the nature of true faith He propoundeth Abraham vnto vn in whom wee may behold a most notable image of true faith What did he did he stagger was hee in suspense with himselfe did he doubt nay in him al things were contrary Rom. 4 1◠he against hope did beleeue vnder hope he was not weake in the faith hee did not discourse against the promise of God through vnbeliefe he was strengthned in the faith hee was fully perswaded that God which had promised could performe it And this faith was imputed to him for righteousnes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This was Abrahams faith shal ours bee vnlike it but he is our Father wee his children and children should bee like their father The conclusion is made now against you Campian that by faith wee are i DVR You can neuer shew out of Gods word that forgiuenes of all sinnes is giuen to them vvho apprehend the righteousnes of Christ by saith WHIT. pag. 618. This that you deny to be shewed in the Scriptures is most plainly taught in them as Ioh. 3.16 Act. 10.43 Act. 13.39 DVR But vve know not vvhether vve be endued vvith true faith WHIT. pag. 620. Indeed it cannot be denied that many are deceiued with a fained faith but they who are indued vvith true faith they do know that they haue true faith so did Paul 2. Tim. 1.12 know for himself in 2. Cor. 13.5 he biddeth other learne to know it So a Christiā may know that he hath true faith that by the spirit that he hath giuen vs as 1. Ioh. 3.24 made certaine of our saluation and that your variable and suspicious faith is liker to infidelity than to faith Basil in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 k DVR That which you bring out of Basil and the Tridentime Catechisme doth ouerthrow your selfe what certaintie can a man haue of his iustification vvhen as S. Paul saith 1. Cor. 4.4 I knovv nothing by my selfe yet am I not thereby iustified And the like hath Iob. cap. 9.15.20 WHIT pag. 622. If they attribute to faith a most certaine persvvasion without doubting as they do do they not cōfirme our doctrine that a man may be certaine of his saluation For those temptations which come frō the flesh though they may shake it yet they cannot ouerthrow it As for S. Paul doth hee denie himself to be iustified doth he doubt of his saluatiō Reade the end of the eight to the Romans and you shall find him so certaine of his iustification and saluation as that you Papists are glad to ansvvere that he had it by an extraordinary reuelation of the spirit And do you novv make him doubting of his saluation But you vnderstand not Saint Paul in the place you alleadge for he doth not not deny that he is iustified but he saith that thereby he is not iustified because he knovveth nothing by himselfe Iob also though he dare not trust to his owne workes and innocency yet he shevveth himselfe to be certaine of his ovvne saluation Iob 19.26 Basil saith excellently What is the propertie of faith a full or certaine perswasion void of all doubting But what meane I to conuince you by testimonies of the auncient whom the very Catechisme of Trent doth confute Catechis Trid. in 1. art Symb. The word beliefe saith it as the holy Scriptures teach hath the force of most certaine consent Wherefore he beleeueth to whom any thing is certaine and assured without doubting Now we beleeue euerlasting life therefore it ought to be most certaine assured to vs without any doubting I require now nothing more the Catechisme of the Councell of Trent ratified by the authoritie of the Pope and Councell teacheth me that a man ought to be certaine of his saluation But are you not yet quiet but stil question farther for say you how can a man be sure l DVR VVho could euer be certaine of his ovvne perseuerance to the end vvithout the peculiar reuelatiō of God WHIT. pag. 626. In this speech you cut in sunder the sinevves of Gods euerlasting decree For seeing Gods predestination is certaine and vnchangeable it doth cause our calling iustifying and glorifying to be as certaine as it selfe For is it in your povver to dissolue and breake in sunder that golden chaine of the Apostle Rom. 8.30 and to vvhom can his owne perseuerance be doubtfull seeing God testifieth his perpetual good wil towards vs as these scriptures fully teach Ier. 32 40. Ioh. 13. 1. Luc 22.32 Iob. 17.20.21 Matth. 21.22 Rom. 8.9 Ioh. 14.16 Ioh. 10.28 Phil. 2.6 Rom. 11.29 1. Ioh. 3.9 Matth. 24.24 of his future perseuerance That may be certaine Campian by faith which if it be true cannot vtterly decay Heb. 11.1 The Apostle termeth faith the m DVR No man euer doubted but that all those things which vve beleeue are most certaine But you ought to shevv that euery ode ought to beleeue that he shall perseuere in that faith to his end Saint Paul she vveth that certaine had made shipvvracke of faith 1. Tim. 1.19 WHIT. pag. 627. The question is not vvhether things beleeued be certaine or no for
this is that you teach wherein the whole summe first and last of your righteousnesse consisteth namely That Christ hath merited for vs by his blood that we might d DVR VVee teach plainely that all the merits of our good workes haue their force and effect only from Christs blood WHIT. pag. 780. Thus you detract saluation froÌ„ Christs merits and ascribe it to ouâ— merits dipped with his blood vvhich the Scriptures no vvhere teach but vtterly condemne prouing that all our good vvorkes are in something faulty and so merit not eternall life Againe by your doctrine euery man should bee redeemed by his ovvne vvorkes and so not by one only Mediator 1. Tim. 2.5 Thirdly Christ vndertooke to obtaine for vs remission of sinnes by his ovvne death which he performed not perfectly if it be in part by our owne workes Fourthly so should we not trust in God only but also in our workes dipped in Christs blood which were blasphemie DVR The Scripture saith we are vvorthie the kingdome of God WHIT. pag. 782. It saith we are worthie not because of our owne merits but in that Christs merits are communicated vnto vs. DVR Life eternall is often called a revvard in Scriptures and the Fathers WHIT. pag. 78â— Reward doth not alwaies argue merit but is oftentimes freely giuen and the Scriptures neuer mention any of our merits merit saluation This is that merit dipped with the blood of Christ which you speake of Confute now our arguments if you can which vsually are alleaged against it Whatsoeuer is required as a e DVR The Angels haue merited our first parents might haue merited blessednes before their fall yet all that they could doe was a due debt vnto God WHIT. pag. 785. If Christ say truly that they are vnprofitable seruants which do all that is commanded no more then neither may the Angels nor might those out first parents ascribe any thing to their ovvne merits but to Gods free mercy seeing they could do no more good then they ought and vvas commanded them debte that meriteth not but whatsoeuer good thing we doe Rom. 8.12 Luk. 17.10 Rom. 4.4 is wholy a debt therefore we haue no merit at all of our owne And that you may vnderstand that we ought to put confidence in the blood of Christ onely and not in our owne merits I will thus reason from Saint Pauls doctrine â—al 2.21 If righteousnesse be by the Law then Christ died in vaine but if we be iustified by our f DVR VVâ—e are iustified by the merits of our workes not done by our owne power and helpe of the Law only but by grace in Christ. WHIT. pag. 786. Thus might the Galathians haue answered S. Paul whose faith was all one vvith yours in this point vvhen be reproued them for ioyning the workes of the Law vvith grace to iustification but S. Paul shevved them that the inheritance is of promise only and so meerely of grace and no vvhit of works which are euer of the Law whether before or after faith merits we are iustified by the Law therefore if we be iustified by our merits Christ died in vaine What neede I here mention innumerable other our arguments not one whereof but it is concluded demonstratiuely and infallibly whereas your owne merits alas are verie pittifully and shamelesly defended by you against the blood of Christ You adde to these a third example saying Against those which honour saints as the most acceptable seruants of Christ there are vouched whole pages of Scriptures which prohibit the worshipping of many gods where are they now Verily the Lord by his owne authoritie reserueth vnto himselfe Psal 50.15 that we inuocate him alone wherefore who so worshippeth and inuocateth g DVR VVe worship not Saints as Gods but as the friends and seruants of God and Saint Paul himselfe desired to be helped by the prayers of sundrie Christian Churches so that you cauill with vs as the heathen and heretikes did of old against the Fathers WHIT. pag. 787. The honor of inuocation may not be giuen to any of Gods friends for we must pray to none but whom we may call Father Luk. 11.2 and in whom we may beleeue Rom. 10.14 therefore not to Saints at all As for Saint Paul he craued the prayers of Saints for him vvhilest they liued but he neuer either prayed to them liuing or dead Nor did the Catholike Fathers vvorship adore or inuocate Saints departed as you doe For Augustine Epist. 44. saith to Maximus the Heathen know you that no Catholike Christian doth worship any of the dead Ierome to Vigilantius saith who is so madde as to vvorship any of the Martyrs Saints hee giueth to them the honour due to God for he both presupposeth that they can performe any thing whatsoeuer and also that they be h DVR The Saints heare our prayers though they be absent WHIT. pag. 790. Euery one that prayeth to Saints supposeth theÌ„ to be present to know eueÌ„ his thoughts and so in effect maketh them Gods as Basil proueth the holie Ghost to be God because hee heareth godly mens prayers whersoeuer DVR The Saints are in many far distant places at once though not euery where WHIT pag. 791. Duraeus doteth to say so for as well they might be in all as in many places at once But Damascene lib. 2. cap. 3. and Aâ—â—â—nas quaest 52. art 2 say of the very Angels that when they be in heauen they are not in earth present euery where both which are the peculiar properties of God onely So that whatsoeuer is truly alleaged against many gods that is altogether effectuall against your Saints in heauen whom both you worship more zealously than God himselfe and robbe him of his due honour to adorne them 1. Tim. 1.5 Rom. 8.34 Heb. 7.25 There is indeed one mediator of God and men the man Iesus Christ he for euer maketh intercession for vs therefore they which bring in new intercessors and mediators are i DVR Christ is the only Mediator of Redemption and Saints may be Mediators of Intercession without iniurie to him WHIT. pag. 793. Christ alone is Mediator of both as these Scriptures proue plainly and Christ himselfe saith no man commeth to the Father but by me Iob. 14.6 and hee will giue you all things in my name Ioh. 16.23 and 1 Ioh. 2.2 so that it is sacrilege against Christs Priesthood to make Saints mediators to commend vs to God iniurious vnto Christ Tell me Campian haue you any face to defend these your sentences following k Duraeus excuseth this perswading himself the writer meant no ill in it though it be indeed intolerable as are many other such their vsuall speeches of the blessed Virgin see VVhit pag. 794. Commaunde him by thy motherly authoritie and those which are often chaunted in the rude ryme of the Masse of the virgin Maries conception thus Tu spes certa miserorum verè mater
and explaned Page 53. 54 The summe of the second answere touching the true meaning of the Scripture 1 The substance and soule of the scripture is the true meaning Page 59 2 The sense is not that which most hold but which is agreeable to the scripture ibid. nota 3 Papists make the Church the interpreter of scriptures that is first Bishops then Councels in their defect the Pope for he so challengeth it that whatsoeuer he thinketh that must be the meaning of it Page 60 4 It is very absurd to hang the sense of the scriptures vpon one mans iudgement especially vpon the Pope so vnlearned and absurd an interpreter as many of them haue bin Page 60. 61 5 They teach the sense of the scripture may be changed with the times and occasions Page 61 6 Foure senses of euery scripture made by Papists Page 61. 62 7 The manner of interpreting the scriptures amongst Protestants which is auncient and safe Page 62 8 Protestants do not exclude Christ from the supper as Papists falsely accuse them yet they include him not in it as Papists do his naturall body they place in heauen but the virtue communion and benefit of this body they exclude not but mainteâ—â— that whole Christ is present to each mans faith Page 63 9 Christ is as present in Baptisme and was to the Fathers as in the Supper ibid. nota 10 The popish and false interpretation of these words This is my body this my bloud confuted by the same rule whereby Campian would confirme them that is by conference of them with the words adioyning Page 64. 65 11 That the words of the sacrament bee figuratiue is proued by the induction of other sacraments Page 65. 66 12 There is no miracle in the sacrament Page 67 13 Papists affirme that the wicked eate the body of Christ as well as the beleeuer Page 67 14 All antiquity is on the Protestants side for the interpretation of the words of the sacrament against the Papists and so their transubstantiation is a new inuention Page 67 15 The testimonies of Tertullian and Augustine alleadged and of Theodoret. Page 68. 69 16 The testimonie of Macarius a Monke Page 70 17 Campian dealeth vnequally pressing the Protestants to leaue the iudgement of the scripture and stand to the iudgement of the Pope being an enemy to them Page 71 The summe of the third answere touching the nature of the Church 1 The true notes of the Church whose present being maketh a true Church whose absence marreth and ouerthroweth it are the word the whole and pure sacraments Page 77. 78 2 The Church is more hid and vnknowne then the Scripture Page 78. nota 3 The Church is euer and must be vpon the earth and oftentimes inuisible compared therefore of Augustine to the Moone Page 78 4 In the daies of Ahab and of Christ it was inuisible or scarce visible Page 80 5 Succession not necessary to the being of the Church for it hath bin and yet no Church as in the Church of the Iews Page 81 6 The small number of the faithfull as Christs 〈◊〉 Pag. 82 7 What is a visible Church Page 82. 83 8 Though perticular Churches are visible it followeth not that the Catholike Church is euer visible ibid. 9 The antiquitie of our faith and doctrine is from the Apostles time Page 83. 84 10 Superstitious growing vpon the Church Page 84 11 The growing of the Popes authority to the height it is now at 84. nota 12 The bringing of Images into the Church Page 84. nota 13 The Grecians not subiect to the Romish Church ibid. 14 The vow of virginitie not vnderstood by faith in S. Paul and what is meant by it Page 86. nota 15 To what Church the Protestants will subscribe Page 87 16 In the visible Church are both good and hypocrites in the inuisible only godly and faithfull men Page 88 17 The distinction of visible and inuisible make not two Churches but one and how they differ and what the Catholike Church is nota The summe of the fourth Answere touching generall Councels 1 Protestants with consent of antiquitie prefer the Scripture before Councels Page 94. nota 2 Nazianzenes hard censure of Councels Page 95 3 The first Councell hold by the Apostles and Church by necessarie consequent condemneth the multitude of popish ceâ—â—â—â—nies Page 96 4 Augustine condemneth the multitude of ceremonies in his time how would he complaine if he saw the multitude of popish ceremonies Page 96 5 Gregories speech expounded touching the foure generall Councels Page 97 6 The iudgement of the Church of England touching the foure generall Councels Page 98 7 The Popes may not haue Peters honour seeing they haue not his vertues and pietâ—â— 99 8 The Canon of the Councell of Nice vtterly ouerthrowed the supremacie of the Pope giuing him no authoritie ouer other churches no more then others ouer his Page 100. 101 9 The Councell of Calcedon doth not confirme the Popes supremacie but ouerthrowes it The Councell gaue to the church of Râ—â—â— greater prerogatiues because it was the chiefe seate of the Empire and not for any law of God and made the Bishop of Constantinople equall with the Bishop of Rome Page 101. 102 10 The Councell of Constantinople gaue vnto the sea of Rome the honour of precedence and place not of authority Page 103 11 The Councell of Ephesus ascribeth no more to the Bishop of Rome then to other Bishops ibid. 12 The Councell of Nice doth not establish the vnbloudie sacrifice of the altar for in the canon named there is no mention of sacrifice or altar Page 104 13 The Fathers haue called the Lords Supper an vnbloudie sacrifice because it is without bloud and not because no bloud is then shed Page 105 14 Saincts departed know neither vs nor the things we do or slâ—â—â—d in need of no reason then we should pray vnto them though the custome be auncient it hath no warrant Page 106 15 Saincts departed know our generall conditions as we theirs not our perticular state nota 16 S. Paul prayed not to the Romanes and Corinthians as Papists do to Saincts but required of them a christian dutie nota 17 The Councell of Calcedon admiâ—teth ministring Widowes who are but 40. yeares of age forbidding them marriage when as S. Paul would haue them 60. before they be admitted Page 107 18 Duraeus confesseth that in the first age they did not prefer continone is before marriage nota 19 They who haue vowed single life and cannot performe it haue done euill in vowing but not in marrying and for to vow things not in our power is to mock God Page 108 20 Chastitie and single life is not in mans power nota 21 Cyprian alloweth Virgins who haue vowed virginitie if they cannot liue honestly to marry Page 109 22 Campian maketh the Councell of Trent and other Councels equall with the foure Euangelists Page 110 23 Priuate men alleadging the scripture rather to be beleeued then the
256. nota 68 A belieuing man may haue remission of his sinnes though the Minister who pronounceth it intend no such thing pag. 256 69 It is not the dutie of the Minister of the Gospell to reade prayers by the houre but to giue diligence to reading exhortation and doctrine pag. 257 70 Christians are bound to obey the lawes of Magistrates but are freed from the religion of them Their particular lawes binde not the conscience though men must obey their gouernment for conscience sake pag. 267. â—58 nota The summe of the ninth Answere touching the sophismes of the Aduersarie 1 Iesuits be chiefe Sophisters and kings of all other in the kingdome of Poperie pag. 263 2 The sophismes of the Papists by which they would ouerthrow the marriage of Ministers and Deacons pag. 264 3 Pope Innocent thought marriage dutie to be an vnholy thing ibid. nota 4 Their sophismes for the Popes supremacie and his excellencie aboue the Emperor that he is not to be reprooued that he cannot erre pag. 265. 266. 267 5 Though one Pastor haue rule ouer one flocke it followeth not one must haue ouer all ibid. nota 6 Their sophismes for priuat Masse the Priests communicating alone that the people must haue onely one part pag. 267 7 Their sophismes that prayers must bee in an vnknowne 〈◊〉 us that the people may not reade the Scriptures pag. 268 8 Their sophismes that the bread is Christs bodie and that it is to be worshipped that election is for merit ibid. 9 Their sophismes that the sicke should bee anoynted that marriage is a sacrament That a Monkish life is warrantable by the examples of Elias and Iohn Baptist but it is vnsound pag. 269. nota 10 Their sophismes that there are seuen Sacraments that images must be set vp in Churches That we are iustified by charitie and not by faith ibid. 11 Their sophismes that men haue free will that Christ deliuered the Fathers out of Lambus that the authoritie of the Church is aboue the Scripture pag. 270 12 Their sophismes that all things are not written which are necessarie to saluation That men passe thorough the fire of Purgatorie to eternall life pag. 271 13 The place 2. Thes 2.15 doth not establish traditioÌ„s ibid. nota 14 The 1. Cor. 3.15 doth not prooue Purgatorie ibid. nota 15 Some sophismes of Campians ibid. 16 It is no sophisme from the commendation of mariage to ouerthrow the vow of virginitie pag. 272 17 The Prelates haue spoken most basely and impiously of mariage like to the ancient Heretikes pag. 273 18 They prefer virginitie before it without any Scripture and yet they make it a Sacrament and virginitie none pag. 272. nota 19 Mariage is honourable in all and impure in to degree pag. 273 20 Protestats vse no sophisme in disputing against merits ibid. 21 Papists teach that their merits dipped in Christs blood doth merit saluation that is that Christ hath merited by his blood that men might merit saluation pag. 274 22 That good works cannot merit is proued ibid. nota pag. 275 23 Neither Angels can nor Adam could merit any thing ibid. nota 24 Protestants vse no sophisme in disputing against worship of Saints ibid. 25 Saints are not to be worshipped or prayed vnto 275. nota 26 Duraeus saith the Saints are in farre distant places at once 276. nota 27 Papists blasphemies touching the Virgin Mary ibid. 28 Protestants vse no sophisme in disputing against the Masse and Purgatorie 277 29 Neither Masse nor Purgatorie is to be found in the scripture neither the names nor the things are there ibid. 30 In the Supper thâ—re was no sacrifice neither now can be nor vnbloodie sacrifice 278. nota 31 There is neither the name nor the office of a Priest in the new Testament appropriated to any one kinde of men 279 32 There is no sacrifice in the Gospell but that which is common to all to offer 280 33 The Church hath lawfull power to chuse her Ministers 280 nota 34 The Papists choise of meate and their set daies of fasting are ridiculous and superstitious 281 35 The examples of Elisha Daniel and Iohn Baptist will not warrant Popish fasts 282. nota 36 S. Paul reprooued the Galathians for obseruing dayes and times because they accounted it necessarie to saluation as Papists doe now teach 282. nota 37 Papists fastings condemned by the 1. Tim. 4.23 and differ from the old Christian fast ibid. 38 Aeâ—â—â—s was not condemned of the Church as an heretike for iudging of fasting as Protestants doe 283. nota 39 Auncient Christians fasted voluntarily not by canon or precept ibid. 40 The word Sacraments are the true notes of the Church 283.284 41 The Fathers in the greatest matters are wholy the Protestants 285. nota 42 Papists preferre the Fathers before the Canonicall Scriptures ibid. nota 43 By Aquinas his iudgement things are necessarily prooued by the Scripture but only probably by the Fathers ibid. The summe of the tenth Answere touching all manner of Witnesses 1 It is Campians witlesse kind of reasoning wheÌ„ an enumeration of all kind of witnesses to coÌ„clude all are on his side 299 2 They only find the way spoken of Isay 35.8 who are taught by Christ and be holy 300. nota 3 In visible particular Churches are good and bad not in the inuisible Catholike Church ibid. nota 4 No Iesuite nor any Papist can be in heauen because they haue the marke of the beast 301 5 Many Bishops of Rome are in heauen but neuer a Pope ibid. 6 Ignatius was not on the Papists side because he taught that a Bishop was aboue a King for Protestants hold the same for the administration of the offices of a Bishop Yet the King aboue him in commaunding him to doe them and in puâ—â—shing him if he neglect them 301.302 7 Protestants receiue Traditions so long as they agre with the writingâ— of the Apostles ibid. 8 Neither Telesphorus reuiued nor the Apostles ordained the fast of Lent ibid. nota 303 9 The decretall epistles of the Pope were not framed by them but by their parasites ibid. 10 Iâ—enaeus allowed not the succession of Bishops in Rome but while there was succession of truth with it ibid. 11 Victor could not make the Churches of Asia keepe Easter after the manner of the Romane Church but the Councell of Nice preuailed more ibid. nota 12 The Church of Smyrna neuer gathered the bones of Polycarpe for reliques but to burie them 304 13 Cornelius the Pope could neuer abolish the error which Cyprian and the Church of Affrike did hold ibid. nota 14 Sixtus was no more on the Papists side then on the Protestants because he had Deacons to help him to celebrate diuine seruice ibid. 15 Helenâ— iâ—â—he found the Crosse yet she worshipped it not as Pâ—pâ—â—tâ— do aâ—d thâ—t with â—aâ—râ—a 305. nota 16 Monâ—â—â— deâ—ired not to be sacrificed for at the Mâ—â—â—e for remission of sinne but to be
remembred as the Patriarks Prophets and Apostles were to shew she was of the communion of Saints ibid. 306. nota 17 Prayer for the dead rose not from the scriptures but from the excessiue loue of the liuing to the dead ibid. 18 Augustine neuer prayed for his mother as thinking her to be in Purgatory ibid. 19 The auncient Fathers are to be iudged of not by one particular iudgement but by their constant opinion ibid. 20 The Monks of Popery much vnlike the Monks of auncient time 307 21 Satyrus challenged by Campian for this because he could swimme ibid. 22 The Schoolemen differ often in matter of faith 308. nota 23 Papists and the Iesuits liue as if there were no heauen ibi 24 The doctrine of Papists is such as whosoeuer holdeth it wholly cannot raigne with Christ 309 25 Antichrist of Rome hath inlarged hell more then all tyrants and heretikes ibid. 26 The cause why Christians resorted so much to Ierusalem after Christes death 310 27 Superstitious pilgrimages are contrary to the word and condemned by Gregory Nyssen and Bernard ibid. nota 28 The cause why the Iewes hate Christians is the Gospell not the spoiling of them of their priesthood and kingdome which was done by heathenish Tyrants ibid. nota 29 The Papists great friends to the Iewes allowing them toleration 311 30 Papists are not the ofspring of the Fathers 312 31 Lights were vsed by Christians only when they were forced to meete in the night and after without any ground of scripture custome brought them to be lighted at noone day 312. nota 32 The church of Rome was once poore when it had woodden Chalices and golden Priests But Vâ—bane the Pope made all the ministring dishes of siluer 313. nota 33 Constantine quieted the troubles of the church of Rome and since his time as sâ—e hath increased in wealth so she hath decreased in pietie ibid. 34 Constantine was not baptised by Syluester Bishop of Rome who was dead long before his baptisme 314 35 Constantine vsed the crosse in his armes and banners but neuer worshipped it ibid. 36 Constantine had not the lowest place in the Councell of Nice but the chiefest ibid. 37 The Turke neuer lesse preuailed theÌ„ since Luthers time 315 38 The Pope and his dealings did much enlarge the Turks by diuiding the Empire ibid. 39 The Turks are greater enemies to the Greeke Church then to the Latine 316 40 Symon Magus denied all freewill vnto men which Protestants do not neither did Caluine ibid. nota 41 Protestants are farre from that error of the Nouatians touching the repentance of those who are fallen ibid. 42 They are farre different from the Manichees in the matter of Baptisme 317 43 The church of Rome for along time was more excellent then the rest and so accounted yet for all that it neuer had neither in that respect ought to haue dominion ouer the rest 318. nota 44 Augustine and the Councell of Carthage forbad that the Bishop of the chiefe sea should not be called Prince of Priests ibid. And to it the Bishop of Rome submitted himselfe for a time 319. nota 45 The Greeke Church is opposite to the Romane Church and hath her bishoply succession ibid. 46 The Papists haue not ouerthrowne the idols of the heathen but filled the world full of their idols 321 47 The Iesuites haue diuided Christ and haue no proprietie in the name of Iesus ibid. nota 48 Luther preached the true Christ the papists neither haue him nor preach him 322 49 Britanie receiued tâ—e faith many ages before August the Monke came who brought more euil then good with him ibid. The end of the Contents TO THE MOST LEARNED VNIVERSITIE MEN FLORISHING BOTH AT OXFORD AND Cambridge Edmond Campian sendeth greeting WHen I returned most worthy men into this Iland a yeere agoe vpon commandement of my superiours according to the order of that Religion which I professe I found stormes farre more dangerous on the English coasts than those were which I had lately escaped on the Brittaine Ocean But when I had gone further into England I sawe nothing more vsuall then vnusuall punishments nothing more certaine than vncertaine daungers Then I plucks vp my heart as well as I could calling to mind the goodnes of my cause and not forgetting the troubles of these times And least peraduenture I should be caught before that any man heard what I had to say forthwith I writ downe my determination why I came what I sought for what manner of warre and against whom I purposed to proclaime it The first draught of my writing I kept still about me that if I were apprehended it might be found with me A copie thereof I left in keeping with a friend of mine which vnawares trulie to me was shewed to many other men and by them coppied out The Aduersaries tooke the schedule being published in ill part most spitefully reprehending both all the rest as also this that I alone in this matter of Religion had made the challenge to all Although in very deed I alone would not haue entred the list if with licence of her Maiestie and safe conduct these disputations had been granted Hanmer and Charke haue made answere to my challenge what I pray you though it were long before To no purpose at all for they shall giue no answere honestly but one which I feare they will neuer giue to wit We accept of your answere The Queenes Maiestie hath giuen her word that you shall come and goe safe make haste hitherwarde In the meane while they are full of their exclamations Fie vpon thy societie out vpon thy seditions art thou not ashamed of thine arrogancie thou art a Traitor doubtles thou art a Traitor foolishly said of them Why do those men not the vnaduisedst of all the rest so lauishlie loose their labour and cost of pen inke and paper But there is of late a little booke very plaine set forth for these two men to peruse the former of which for his pleasure and recreation took my said paper in hand to confute the same the other more maliciously hudleth vp the whole matter which so farre forth as was expedient entreates both of our society and of these mens iniuries and of the charge which I haue vndertaken There remaineth only for me for as I perceiue our Bishops prouide scourges and not Schooles that I might render an account of my said fact euidently to shew and as it were with my finger to point out vnto you the chiefe Chapters and fountaines of the things that breed in me such confidence And withall to exhort you who especially aboue all others haue to do herein that you will looke vnto this charge with such carefull diligence as Christ the Church the Common-wealth and the saluation of your owne soules do require at your hands If I vpon the affiance of my wit learning art reading or memorie haue thus challenged the best learned of the
boulder then a Iesuite being newlie come out of your den or cabbine where you haue lurked these diuers yeeres to proclame warre against vs all and challenge to the combate the most valiant of vs that you saie was the euident apprehension of our distrust and diffidence in our cause But what manhood is this for so valourous a man as you make shew to be to prouoke and with sharpe warre to pursue so timerous aduersaries who are readie to betake themselues to their heeles not daring to stand to it but distrusting their owne strength But tell vs in what things our distrust hath bin so sensible There are many things say you which euidently bewray the aduersaries mistrust in the cause Verelie if boldnes in oppugning and withstanding Religion were of as great force as vsually it is in making of warre and scaling the enemies walles and racing his townes we might well feare your furious and desperate attempts for whatsoeuer could be compassed by rage furie and crueltie that hath not in this combate and contention been wanting But such weapons cannot dare religion and truth neither can they displace it Let it be graunted we haue not been so cheerefull and readie in the defence of a good cause as we ought and as the cause it selfe well deserued neither haue we put to flight your forces so soone as we ought to haue vanquished theÌ„ yet we neuer gaue ground we neuer turned our backs vpon you neither euer sled out of the field a DVR You boats much of your valour but vvhether thinke you is he valorous or fearefull vvho dare not othervvise buckle vvith his aduersarie but vpon condition he may forbid him what weapons he list and choose for himselfe vvhat he list Now here is your valour you forbid vs the vveapons of the Church Councels Fathers You only leaue vs the weapons of the Scriptures WH Pag. 4. He that will ouercome in this cause must onely vse those weapons which are allowed in this kind of sight For it is not lawfull heere as in warre to take any weapon by which you can wound your enemie But weapons must be fetched out of the armorie of the Scriptures and the spirit of God or else there vvill be no foyling of an aduersary And this is that which the Scriptures doe warrant and Constantine commanded the Fathers of the Nicene Councel to vse against the Arrians and to end controuersies the bookes of the Euangelists and Apostles and the oracles of the old Prophets Theodoret. lib. 2. cap. 6. And the like teacheth Hillarie de Trinit lib. 7. August Epist. 3. and contr liter Petil. Donat. lib. 3. cap. 6. and in diuers other places Why doe you then repoue this thing in vs Tell me vvhose cause thinke you is best vvhether ours vvho are content vvith the Sâ—riptures alone and being armed vvith them can defend our ovvne and refel others or yours vvhich in no case can be safe if the cause must be tried by the Scripture only Therefore at the fiâ—st you are forced to confesse that you must come into the field vnarmed and naked if no vveapons vvill be afforded you besides the Scriptures For tell vs Campian if you can and remember the bypast times Did we euer cuÌ„ningly auoid any disputation did we euer refuse any combate did we euer shift off any of your offers and challenges But how often haue we publikely entred the combate with you how often haue we refuted your oft iterated Sophistications what writing of yours is yet vnanswered by vs or what course of disputation haue we not yeelded to Are not all those disputations held at Wittenberge Ratesbone Augusta Spire Wormes Bearne Possia London Cambridge Oxford most plentifull and pregnant witnesses with what spirits with what learning with what truth we defended our Religion what shew or signe of feare or diffidence found you amongst vs nay rather how true and singular confidence did there appeare in vs you it is and not we when it comes to a trial indeed that begins to sweat chaunge countenance tremble euery ioynt of you and bewray your deepe distrust and the naughtines of your cause Wherefore Campian take it from me if you thinke our distrustfulnes will helpe you any thing you much deceiue your selfe for if we haue with courage stood against your predecessors so far surpassing you we will not yeeld a haire to you nor feare your manner of conflict being so childish in the iudgement of all men But this diffidence you so cast in our dish tell vs what it is and how it appeares so clearely Forsooth we distrust our hold in the Scriptures and the maiestie of Gods bookes we haue most filthilie corrupted This indeed is a very great crimination you obiect to vs and an vndoubted proofe of our distrust for they who are not able to maintaine the Religion they professe vnlesse they lay violent hands vpon the Scriptures and impeach the sacred authoritie of those heauenly bookes the cause on their side must be very naught and desperate indeed Therfore I graunt vnto you that it was very fearefull desperation which made the Manachies renounce the old Testament wholy and cancell part of the new the same also made Ebion reiect all Paules Epistles and other heretikes to do so too for there was nothing fitter for them to vphold those their monstrous opinions then by denying those bookes of holy Scripture But I pray you Campian let vs see how these things make for your purpose or what it is wherein we are so like those forenamed Heretikes Me thinkes it little beseemeth your learning and eloquence to slaunder vs and to pinne vpon our sleeues such odious crimes of auncient heretikes so vndeseruedly If we haue shaken hands with the Manachees if with the Ebionits tell vs wherein But if we are culpable of no such thing the Lord shall iudge your outragious and bold slaunders and maintaine our vprightnes and innocency For who euer thought and spoke more honorably reuerently and with more due regard of the Scriptures then we who haue receiued and imbraced all Scripture giuen by inspiration as the very voice of God himself holding it for the only mysterie of our faith and religion and so resting in it as that we desire no other helpe as necessary to saluation which if we had not with more diligence and deuotion defended then you euer did long ere this the glorie of it had perished and it had bin counted as a dead letter For what haue we done for these many yeeres with more endeuour and diligence then maintaine the maiesty and excellencie of the Scriptures which you haue so vnworthily violated And yet you blush not to match vs with the Manachees and Ebionits who haue violently laid most impure and villanous hands vpon those sacred bookes But say you Luther that most wicked Apostata called the Epistle of S. Iames a contentious swelling barren and strawen Epistle and iudged it vnworthy the spirit of an Apostle still
â—hich diuideth Christis not of God â—nd the historie of the adulterous woman Iohn 8.3 WHIT. pag. 65. We haue not raced it out of the â—cripture for it is not to be found in the moâ—t auncient Greek copies but as we read it 1. Ioh. 4.3 Cyprian also l. b. 2. cap. 8. testim contra Iudaeos so reads it and Augustine also ad Poâ—â—ent lib. 2. cap. 7. reads bo h. The history of the woman taken in adultery we race not out though some of the auncient haue done and Beza though he demurred about it veâ— neuer dashed it out part and portion of any booke which appeareth to haue bin written and confirmed by diuine authoritie I will neuer contend any longer but yeeld you the day and giue vp our weapons to you But if we haue euer most faithfully kept the whole corpes of the Scriptures and haue seuered the true bookes from false and haue defended the heauenly truth of God and preserued it vncorrupt why doe you poore silly Fâ—ier cry out of our desperation when your selfe is so farre plunged in desperation it selfe that there is no certainty of your saluatioÌ„ but by the deprauation and corruption of the holy Scriptures Now in that you affirme we are conuinced by those oracles As often as we dispute of the defence of Angels of freewill of praying for the dead and of praying to Saints they are thing which we haue discussed a thousand times and haue exactly determined them out of the true oracles of God The defence of Angels is taught vs in the Scripture where we are taught that God hath set his Angels ouer certaine people Dan. 10. 12. â—sal 91.11 places and men and of this in general we nothing doubt but that Angels haue that commission from the Lord that they must prouide for mens safety and saluation So that we deny them not some kind of ministration yea we attribute as much to them as the Lord hath taught vs we should And as for your q DVR Denys â—as S Pauls disciple and he hath manifested such mâ—â—teries WHIT. pag 68. Why did not S. Paul who waâ— rapt vp into the third heauen and saw such great things declare vnto vs the hierarchy of Angels did he burâ—e it in silence and his disciple tell it abroad But Denys was not the disciple of S. Paul as shall in another place be proued Hierarchie and manifold degrees of Angels we are willingly ignorant of them and no whit enuy your knowledge who haue had the reuelation of such great mysteries from your Denys who hath that I may vse the words of S. Paul aduaunced himselfe in those things whic he neuer saw But it is another patronage of Angels which you defend and hold that we ought to worship them and call vpon them which the Scripture in plaine words forbiddeth for r DVR Saint Paul forbids onely the offering vp of sacrifice to Angels and making of them nevv mediatâ—rs WHIT pag. 70. S. Paul foâ—bids all worshipping of them and so prayers a swell as sacrificeâ— they being a part of worship pag 71. Chrysost in Coloss 2. hom 7. in these words Occumen in Coloss 2. whom you alledge do not interpret them for you but for our opinion and as the truth is S. Paul condemnes Worshipping of Angels Coloss 2.18 And the Angell once and againe called S. Iohn from this kind of worship Å¿ DVR Saint Iohn did nâ—t worship the Angell but tooke the person of those who held that Angels were to be worshipped with sacrifices that he being forbidden they might be reproued in him WHIT. pag. 72. John did not as you say for neither offered he any sacrificeâ— neither affirmeth he that he dissembled but saith directly I fell downe to worship before him You on the coÌ„trary say he fell not downe to worship And your Thomas vpon Apoc. 19. saith S. John intended to worship with Dulia And vpon Apocal. 22. with Latria See thou doest it not Apoc. 19.10 22 9. Tob. 12. I am thy fellow seruant and one of thy brethren worship God As for Raphael in t DVR The auncient Fathers haue cited the booke of Toby aâ— Irene Cyprian Hâ—la WHIT. pag. 73. Then will it follovv thâ—t out of what booke soeuer the Fathers haue alledged any testimony it must be of the Canon â—o the 3 4. bookes of Esdra for Augustine Cyprian Ambrose cite them yet your Church reiecteth them DVR Hierome putteth them out of the Iewish Canon not of the Canon of the Church WHIT. pag. 74. It is strange those Fathers should make them Canonicall when iâ— Hieromes time long after them they were not no they were neither in the Canons of the Church nor of the Ievves Canon Hieron in Prasat in lib. Salom. DVR Your English Synagogues reade Toby very much WHIT. pag. 76. And other Apochryphaeâ— but accounteth them not in the Canon Tobie we passe not greatly neither do acknowledge those seauen Angels of whom he speaketh All that which was spoken of Raphael or which he speaketh of himself iâ— far differing from the holy Scriptures and it sauoureth strongly of superstition The place of Ecclesiasticus doth not much trouble me neither should I the sooner beleeue u DVR pag. 76. If you deâ—y free wilâ— to man by nature aâ—d that be cannot but sinne you establish the Fate of the Sâ—â—ickes WHIT. pag. 77. No more then vvhen vve say Angells necessarily doe good and diuels euer euill Againe vve deny not mans freewill to naturall and ciuill actions but to the duties of faith because till the sonne hath made him free he must needs be a seruant of sinne free will though he an hundred times should repeate that sentence Ecclesiast 15.17 Gen. 6.5 before man is life and death seeing that the x DVR The Scripture doth not teach that men haue lost free will by nature WHIT. p. 78. What then meaneth it 1. Cor. 2.14 If man cannot vnderstand the things of God and eternall life how can hee will them or doe them Phil. 2.13 The will and deede is wrought in vs by God Gen. 6.5 If hee can thinke nothing but euill where is free will Scripture teacheth that man lost his freedome by sinne the same thing teach the y DVR The Fathers doe not deny free vvill WHIT. pag. 79. August Enchirid cap. 30. Ambrose de vocat gent. cap. 9. Bernard de libr. arbâ—t doe deny it Fathers also and euery mans owne experience howsoeuer these words may be vnderstood of mankind as he was sometime in Adam For thus he writeth a little before Ecelesiâ—it 15. vers 14. He made man from the beginning and left him in the hand of his owne counsaile if he speake of the first condition and state of man and of his perfect and vncorrupt nature wherein he was created of the Lord he speaketh very true but if he made it now free for vs as we are naturall men to chuse or
be graunted you yet it followeth not that they brought in a new Gospell because they differed from that sense for the sense is not to be sought for among the multitude but we must looke to the Scriptures and to God speaking in them as the men of Berea did not take the sense of the most but searched the Scriptures whether Paul taught things agreeing vnto it The Gospell is not in the words of the Scripture but in the sense They then haue the best end of the staffe and are the best patrons of Religion and truth who find out and keepe the true and natural meaning of the Scripture For the letter or word is plaine all controuersies depend vpon the meaning of the Word The state of the question is then thus whether of vs twaine haue attained the true and naturall meaning of the Scripture whether you Iesuits falsely called Catholikes or we who oppose your opinion and iudgment First therefore in generall and in few words we will see what is your opinion and iudgement then we will answere to your cauils Now it is most cleere that you make both the Scripture it selfe and the interpretation of it to depend vpon the authority of the b DVR Js it some haynous offence to require the iudgement of the Church in interpreting the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 142. We contemne not the iudgement of the Church but highly esteeme it as profitable to the well interpreting of the Scriptures But we contemne the iudgment of your Church which hath not any thing which a true Church should haue DVR Whither then should we goe to finde the sense WHIT. Euen whether Christ biddeth vs go search the Scriptures Iohn 5.39 And this vse they haue saith S. Paul 2. Tim. 3.15.16 Church And the Church you call not the whole multitude of Christians and faithfull men but you restraine both the name and nature of the Church vnto your c DVR You reprooue vs that vvee giue the interpretation of the Scriptures to Bishops they verily ought to deliver the true sense they haue receiued from their predecessors to the people WHIT. pag. 144. S. Paul alloweth all Ministers of the Gospell this power to interpret the Scriptures 1. Cor. 14.29.30 who ought aswell to deliuer the true sense as Bishops Besides you must know that the knowledge of tâ—â— Scriptures and the gifts of the spirit are not hereditarie or to be deliuered from hand to hand Bishops But your Bishops may differ touching the sense of the Scriptures so shall we be vncerteine and shall not resolue which of them to beleeue But you can helpe this generall d DVR Great and many controuersies haue been decided by Councels WHIT. pag. 145. It followeth not hereupon that the interpreting of the Scriptures is to be sought for of theÌ„ or if good Councels by the true interpretation of the Scriptures haue taken away some errors and heresies that thereâ—ore all interpretation is theirs or that we must looke for the same from impâ—ous and vnlearned Councels Councels must decide and determine all questions and controuersies Shall we then rest in them no more then in the other for the e DVR And why not seeing no Councell is of any authoritie which was not confirmed by the Pope WHIT. pag. 146. This is false for the sixt African Councell and the Calcedon Councell haue their authority without him And Emperors Patriaâ—kes and Bishops haue confinued Councels And the Councell of Constantinople by letters desired the confirmation of the decrees from Theodosius the Emperor DVR .. God set ouer the Iewes one High Priest Deut. 17.11 Then would Christ neuer neglect his Spouse but leaue her a chiefe iudge vpon the earth WHIT. pag. 151. Yet that iudge was to determine according to the Law Deut. 17.11 But the Pope maketh interpretations not out of the word written but out of his owne braine Againe it followeth not if ouer one little nation God set one chiefe iudge Christ must set but one ouer the whole world Besides the Iewish iudge was a type of Christ Lastly it followeth not that Chriâ—â— hath left his Church no iudge iâ— he haue not leâ—t it one only for euery Church haâ—h her Pastor to teach her and to dâ—â—ermine questions in her Pope must be iudge ouer the Councels So in the conclusion the whole interpretation of holy Scriptures is transferred to the Pope and must be fetched out of his brest yea and as a proper right he so challengeth the power of interpreting of the Scripture that whatsoeuer he thinketh that must be accounted the sense and meaning of them This is your constant and perpetuall propertie and disposition in interpreting the Scriptures full of dotage error and falshood void of aduise knowledge and wisdome For what an absurd and horrible thing is it that the sense and meaning of the holy Scripture should depend vpon one mans iudgement and voice specially being such a one as commonly the Bishops of Rome haue been vnlearned wicked hereticall And hence haue proceeded all those goodly interpretations Take Eate that is you Priests say priuate Masses Dist. 31. Tenere Drinke yee all of this that is only the Priests must drinke Be yee holy for I am holy f DVR Which oâ— the Popes or what Catholike â—riter euer collected this out of that place WHIT. pag. 159. Pope Syricius did first of all so collect and after him Pope Innocent as you may reade in Graâ—â—an Dist. 31. cap. Tenâ—re Dist. 82. cap. propâ—suisti cap. plurimos therfore it is vnlawful for the Minister of the Word to marry a wife Giue yee not holy things to dogges therefore the people must be forbidden to reade the Scriptures What should I number vp innumerable moe of your interpretations by which you doe nothing but peruert and wrest the Scriptures Is this indeed Campian the right interpreting of Scripture or must all Christians receiue this exposition as the oracle of God But what should I speake of the constant tenour you keepe in the interpretation of Scripture for you make the sense of Scriptures so changeable so diuerse and inconstant like to a nose of waxe and a leaden rule Pighius that at all assaies it may euer serue your turne So writeth g DVR Cusanus hath written very rightly for there are diuers senses of the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 162. What rule then can be more vncerteine then the Scriptures or what can be spoken more vilely of the Scripture how then is the Scripture one rule Phil. 3.16 how is iâ— firme induring for euer 1. Pet. 1.25 how no deceitfull ballance Augusâ— dâ— Baptis cont Don. lib. 2. cap. 6. Nicholas Cusanus a Cardinall of Rome Nicol. Cusan Epist. 2. Epist. 7. to the Bohemians This vnderstand that the Scriptures are fitted to the time and diuersely to be vnderstood so that at one time they may be expounded according to the common customable course but change that and the sense is
changed so that it is no maruell if the custome of the Church at one time interpret the Scriptures after this manner another time after that Was there euer the like bouldnes heard of that men would wrest the eternall and immutable word of God which euer hath but one and the same sense to serue the will of the Church that is of the Pope of Rome Thom. 1. â— 1. art 10. besides this you haue made so many h DVâ— The Fathers and Antiquity haue euer made these foure senses of the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 163. To faine such foure senses in euery sentence differeth not much from a learned kind of madnes Allegories I confesse many are in the Scriptures but such as the holy Ghost himselfe hath made but to make other Allegories when the words may be vnderstood without a Trope or when the Grammaticall sense is not absurd and repugnant to sound doctrine I thinke is too great bouldnesse and temerity A Tropologicall sense is not a new sense differing from the Grammaticall but one â—s it were with it Finally if the Fathers as men haue erred must we needs follow their errors The Fathers reiected the errors and false interpretations of their predecessors why may not we deale so with them senses of euery place to wit an allegoricall a tropological an anagogicall sense that by your Ledgerdemaine you haue abolished the true and natiue sense Now Campian since you know that this is the manner of your Church in the interpreting of the Scripture than which what can be more corrupt how dare you presume to reprehend our manner of interpretation But we follow no other course then that which the Fathers haue prescribed and which the thing it selfe argues to be most fit For that is our course which Augustine aduised we interpret obscure places by those which are plainer we obserue the phrase and stile of the Scripture we weigh circumstances we compare scripture with scripture we go not one iot from the Analogie of faith They who take this course adioyning their harty prayers that the Lord would open this sealed booke vnto them and teach them the true sense of the scripture shall neuer need to runne to Rome and enquire of that sacred Oracle of the Pope who himselfe neither vnderstandeth the true sense of scripture neither is able to expound them to others But to returne now to Campian what is the vsuall fault he finds in our dealing with the scripture and what be the arguments by which he doth confute vs Let vs demaund saith he for example sake of our Aduersaries what caused them to deuise this new opinion whereby Christ is excluded out of the mysticall Supper We Campian do not i DVR If you place Christs body and your supper so farre asunder how do you not exclude h m from iâ— WHIT. pag. 168. It is true if things that are seuered could no way be ioyned but by a corporall ouching but without it it may fitly be as all beleeuers are ioyned together though they be farre distant and distracted one from another as Iewes Grecians and all other godly make but one body with Christ what is that bond of this vnion but the power of the spirit Such an vnion is this in the SacrameÌ„t and it hath the some bond exclude Christ out of the Supper neither do we otherwise thinke of the Sacrament then both Christ hath taught vs and the old Church hath prescribed We certeinly affirme that the faithfull in the supper receiue whole Christ God and Man we beleeue and teach that they eate his body and drinke his blood Neither doubt we to affirme but that he that comes to the supper and doth not in the supper partake of Christ that he is in danger of condemnation Doe we now exclude Christ from the supper But whosoeuer includeth Christ in the supper as you doe he faineth and forgeth a new Christ to himselfe he confoundeth heauen and eartâ— together he offereth violence to nature and muâ—â— needs admit innumerable absurdities Wherfore we following the scripture as our schole-masters not taking vp any new opinion place the naturall and humane body of Christ in heauen for so the Apostle Peter speaketh whom the heauens must conteine vntill the time that all things be restered Act. 3.21 yet the k DVR Theâ— is Christ as present in Baptisme and in the word and wheresoeuer your faith seekes for him as in the supper yea as present to the Fatherâ— in the old Testament as now to vs. WHIT. pag. 169. So questâ—onlesse he is vnlâ—sse all men be without hope of life and saluation who are depriued of the Supper For John 6.53 yea all Christians communicate of Christ alike as well such as come to the supper as they who cannot partake in it And that he was present to the Fathers it is proued 1. Cor. 10.3.4 vertue the communion the benefit of this body we exclude not from the supper but stifly maintaine that in the supper whole Christ is present to each mans faith This is the summe of our opinion which I no lesse doubt to be the true sense of the scripture then that Christ is Christ or that to be scripture which is scripture This opinion out of all others which we hold haue you made choice of as an example to impugne and gain-say Let vs see now how scholler-like you acquite your selfe If they name the Gospell say you we ioyne with them The very words make for vs. This is my body this is my blood I acknowledge the words do but I enquire now for the sense of them whether they should be so expounded as your Church teacheth that the bread is Transubstantiated into the bodie and the wine into the blood of Christ or by a Trope and in a mysticall sense that the bread is the Sacrament the signe and symboll of the body and so the wine of the blood of Christ as we interpret them Whether opinion hath more truth in it we will now discusse As for that which you tell vs of Luther I suppose you will not expect any answere from me and vndoubtedly in this thing Luther was farre more opposite to your opinion then ours For he euer condemned your Transubstantiation as it is for an accursed inuention and fiction of Satan Luther we acknowledge was a man who though he saw the truth in many things yet he might erre in some things his good things wee embrace but wee are bound by no law to defend his errors But how shal we find out the meaning of this saying Let vs trie out this say you by the words thereto adioyning Nothing can be spoken more truly nothing more fitly nor more ingenuously And verely I could wish you would alwaies doe as you pretend in this place to doe sist out the meaning of the scripture by the circumstances of the words But what are the words adioyning My body which is giuen for you my blood which is shed for you
what may be feared of them namely lest that rather then they should not many they would waâ— waâ—â—on against Christ and breake their first faith which is not their vow but the profession of Christian religion which such light buswiues would easily coâ—â—â—â—â— that they might inioy their pleasures And that this is his meaning the 1â— verse sheweth For certeine are already turned backe after Satan shewing what some had done he admonisheth them to be wary lest others should do the like And as for the Fathers if they did also expound these words as indeed they doe not yet the argument is very weake in diuinity The Fathers haue thus expounded it therefore the exposition is true Luther indeed tooke to wife in holy wedlocke a Virgin that once was intangled by a rash superstitious vow after she had bin more rightly instructed in the truth of religion Exclaime bitterly as you list Call Zuinglius also a swash buckler seeing your self is a player of a Price But tell vs wherein he did euer shew himselfe such a cutter forsooth he boldly ventered his life with his fellow citizens Slerdum lib. 8. Occolam Ephes lib. 4. If Zuinglius at the commaund of the Senate went to warre against the enemies of his couÌ„trie religion where he perished by cruell theeues who lay in waite for him what did he vnbefitting a valiant man a good citizen and a faithfull Pastor to do For whereas you challenge him with conspiracie against his country besides that it is a shamelesse lie I wonder why you should obiect such a crime to him seeing with you it is a thing very commendable for men to conspire against their Prince and country As for Caluin whom you call a seareback runagate the whole Church of Christ knoweth to be an excellent man and a most constant seruant of the Lord who was as farre from lewdnes and dishonastie as you are from shamefastnes and honesty If he was seared S. Paul was so too Gal. 6.17 yea diuers others but indeed he was not And whereas you call him a runagate I pray you tell vs where you haue liued for these diuers yeares and remember what your selfe were Caluin neuer forsooke the Church hee once tooke vpon him to gouerne but there he liued with the speciall loue of all and there he ended his daies but why doe I answere you anything in defence of those excellent and worthy men whom you shal neuer iustly defame though you burst your hart with lying But let vs now heare your communication as you call it And heere you demaund Whether we will subscribe to the Church which flourished these many hundred youres we answere we will subscribe but say you to which Church I answere r DVR He did not demaund whether you would subscribe to that Church which had continued in the precept of the Apostles but vvhether to that Church vvhich hath flourished these many hundred yeares vvhich if you vvould you must needs yeeld as ouercome vvhen none but ours haue flourished thus long WHIT. pag. 285. As if no Church but the Romish Church had flourished these many hundred yeares or for many ages together in the opinion of men it only hâ—â— the name of â—â—e church 〈…〉 will subscribe to all Churches whether they flourished now 〈…〉 they hold the Apostles doctrine but you shall neuer proue 〈◊〉 we must necessarily subscribe to place Sea succession no more then Christ his disciples were bound when there was no true Church flourishing vpon the earth to the Church which is built vpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles that is to the Churches of Hierusalem Antioch Ephesus and all those famous and excellent Churches of which wee reade in the Epistles written by the Apostles yea euen to the auncient Church of Rome to which yours is no more like then an apple to an oysteâ— Finally we subscribe to those Churches of whom we reade in histories that they kept the seed of that doctrine which the Apostles taught among them sound vncorrupt These Churches as long as they did continue in the Apostles doctrine were true Churches to those Churches we haue and euer will subscribe And by this I thinke we haue cut off the progresse of your conference for we haue not giuen you such an answere as you fained to your selfe Wherefore that which followeth in you hangeth together like a rope of sand but no answere will please you vnlesse we offer to subscribe to your Romish Church but that we iustly disclaime because it hath fouly corrupted the â—â—â—stles writing You must find you out other subscribers Campian for wee will subscribe to none but the Apostolicall Churches But one thing say you they will still stand vpon in darkenes that where and in what place soeuer the Church is there are conâ—eiued therein only Saints and such as are predestinate to go to heauen We speake not so of the Church as you write for we are taught by the Scriptures thus to distinguish the Church that it is sometimes Å¿ DVR I beleeue only one Catholike Church as the Apostles and Nicene Creed hath taught me which conteineth both the elect and as many as professe true religion Now you teach me to beleeue two Churches WHIT. pag. 286. This distinction taketh not away the vnity of the Church no more then when the Church is said to be mâ—â—â—an and uâ—â—â—phant vniuersall and particular For the visible and â—â—uisible Church make but one called visible for the outward policy or order of it which is seene and discerned inuisâ—ble because Gods election and the electes faith is not to be seene with eies And this distinction we haue Esay 1.9 Matth. 22.14 As for the Creedes you mention we beleeue them in this point aswell as you But tell vs this one Catholike Church what is it If you restraine the name to the visible Church first you exclude both that in heauen of the Saints and that which shall be of these which aâ—e vnborne and yet do belong to the Catholike Church secondly you place faith in the sense which the Apostle saith is of things which are not seene Heb. 11.1 As for that Catholike Church which we beleeue it is the company of all the elect euen as many as haue been from the beginning of the world and shall be to the end therefore it is called the Apostolike and holy Church the communion of Saints And to this communion belong no prophane and wicked men no hypocrites because they haue no fellowship with Christ For the holy Church is the mysticall body of Christ of which body no member can at any time perish visible and sometimes inuisible In a particular visible Church of which they are members who will heare the Word and receiue the Sacraments we confesse there are many fained Christians who had rather haue the visard of faith then true faith indeed An inuisible Church we affirme to containe only the godly who with a
fellowes digged out of their graues to helpe you in your desperate cause heare me Campian that which Iewel then said most truly and confidently challenging you to the triall of sixe hundred yeares antiquity offering also to yeeld you the victory if you brought one plaine and manifest authority out of any Father or Councell that same we do all professe and promise and will surely performe it Twentie yeares are expired and not one of you hitherto could performe the condition if you perswade your selfe to haue more sufficiency hereunto then your masters before haue had why stay you why sit you still why discontinue you the defence of so good a cause But alas you are no body you haue read nothing you haue no strength answerable to such an endeuor The learned Humphrey did not taxe Iewel as if he had too liberally vndertaken for the Fathers or performed lesse then he promised but only that he had yeelded further vnto you then he needed and called backe the cause which was already determined by the Scriptures to the authorities of the Fathers which yet he did not as though he distrusted any thing the triall of Scriptures for hee knew that they were sufficient to refute all popish errors but that hereby he might beate downe that their insolent and most false bragge of antiquitie which preuailed with many You say further that you haue conferred sometimes familiarly with Toâ—y Matthew and wâ—â—led him to answere freely whether hee that read the Fathers diligently could bee of that part which â—e fauoured Although in priuate and familiar conference wee say many things which we would not haue further reported or dispersed yet I doubt not but the worthy Mathew gaue you such an answere as was both agreeable to the truth and fit for his iudgement and wisdome Wee must not in all things beleeue the Fathers nor doth our faith depend vpon their word Sometimes they haue erred and been the occasion of errors vnto others yet may we reade them by their truthes be more learned by the contrary more wary And this also thinketh Matthew Hutton that famous man whom you surmise to bee the only man amongst vs conuersant in the Fathers And this also is all our opinions After you haue thus finished your discourse you will now as you say without feare come into the battell and fight with vs. You are still telling vs of armies skirmishes warres campes and of your battailes but you should remember that the triall of warre is common to both sides and the issues of battailes vncerteine The and of warre lieth in the strength of armes not in the stoutnes of words EDMVND CAMPIAN The sixt Reason which is the foundation of the Fathers IF euer that saying a Iob. 5. search the Scriptures was loued and liked of by any which was greatly regarded and ought to be amongst vs the holy Fathers assuredly herein excelled and exceeded for by their labour and cost were the Bibles copied out and conueyed to so many countries and nations of strange languages by their great perils and torments were they deliuered from burning by the enemies and from destruction by their paines and teachings haue they been throughout expounded most faithfully they spent whole daies and nights in the study of holy Scriptures they preached out of euery Pulpit the holy Scriptures they enriched long volumes with holy Scriptures with most faithful Commentaries they explained the holy Scriptures they seasoned as well their feasting as their fasting with holy Scriptures And finally they exercised themselues euen vntill crooked old age crept vpon them in holy Scriptures And although they grounded their reasons also vpon the authority of their Auncestors vppon the common practise of the Church vpon the succession of Bishops vpon generall Councels vpon Traditions of the Apostles vpon the bloodshedding of Martyrs vpon the decrees of Preâ—â—â—s vpon strange signes and marnâ—â—â—â—us â—â—â—racles yet their greatest desire was especially to fill their treatises with store of testimonies out of the holy Scriptures These they vrge vpon these they make their habitation to these Scriptures as vnto the coate b Cant. 4. armor of valiant souldiers they worthily yeeld the highest and most honorable place like noble captaines daily desending the Catholike Church which is the citie of God by them kept in good repaire against all mischeeuous assaults of her enemie the which thing maketh me the more to maruell at that proud and foolish exception of the aduersarie who like one that seeketh for water in the running riuer complaineth for the scarsity of Scriptures where greatest store of Scriptures are alleadged So long he saith he is content to be iudged by the Fathers as they swarue not from the Scriptures Doth he speake as he thinketh I will see then that these most famous writers most auncient Fathers and most holy men Saint Denys S. Cyprian S. Athanasius S. Basil S. Gregory Nazianzen S. Ambrose S. Hierome S. Chrysostome S. Augustine and S. Gregory the great shall come forth wel armed and vpholden with Christ with the Prophets with the Apostles and with the whole furniture of the Bible Grant good Lord that that religion may * And at this day the same faith flourisheth in England which those Fathers did had and defended raigne in England I say good Christ grant that that religion may raigne in England that these Fathers that embrace the Scriptures so louingly haue builded vp out of the Scriptures Looke what Scriptures they bring wee will bring the same looke what Scriptures they conferre we will conferre the same looke what Scriptures they alleadge we will alleadge the same Art thou also contented with this cough out Sir a Gods name and tell me plainly what you thinke I like them not thou wilt say except they interpret the said Scriptures rightly what meanest thou by saying rightly ô now I know after thy owne fancy Art thou not ashamed of this blind intreate dealing Then for as much as I am in good hope that in the foresaid Vniuersities that most freshly flourish there will ioyne together a great number of such as will looke into these controuersies not grosely but with sharpe iudgement and wil weigh these mens trifling answere not partially but in equall ballance I will therefore with a chearefull courage expect this day of battell as one that mindeth to march forward with the nobility force of Christs Church against a monkesâ— multitude of ragged Rogues WILLIAM WHITAKERS The answere to the sixth Reason which is the foundation of the Fathers I Cannot wel coÌ„iecture Campion what these new foundations of the fathers may bee which you propound vnto vs. As touching the fathers we haue giuen you your answere and haue plainely prooued that they affoord no foundation for you to build your cause vpoÌ„ And it is probable that you thought so your self therefore you iudged it not safe for you to rest in them vnlesse you brought foorth certaine foundations by which you might strengthen the
fathers themselues For after you had said what you could remember touching the fathers that you might shew you esteemed their sayings as diuine Oracles because you saw that was too slender and that no man would iumpe with you in that point you now indeuour by certaine foundations to fortifie and strengthen the authoritie of the Fathers Now the strength and as it were the bond and sinewes of this disputation is this a DVR Campian doth not dispute so but say he do what reproue you for he speaketh not of one Father but of the consent of all vvho flourished in one age whom Saint Paul saith Christ hath made Pastors and teachers of his Church Eph. 4.11 WHIT. pag. 408. Then as you confesse I swarued not much from his sense But thinke you the reason is of force The auncient Fathers haue diligently read and searched the Scriptures therefore they neuer erred in their interpretation If iâ— hold in the Fathers why not in others vvhich do search the Scriptures as vvell as they vvhich if you once grant you ouerturne your owne cause And though they were Pastors of the Church yet vvere there many other Pastors and teachers of the Church vvho either vvrit nothing at all or their vvritings are perished so that vvhat they deliuered vve possibly cannot knovv vvhat a vaine thing is it then to bragge of the consent of all vvhen you can hardly name tvventy in the most flourishing age that euer vvas vvhose bookes came to our hands Besides the consent of all in one age in no controuersie can you bring against vs except it vvere in the most corrupt ages Lastly the Pastors Christ gaue to his Church vvere men such as might erre and vvho had no promise to be kept from error if at any time they turned aside from the Scriptures The Fathers haue searched the Scriptures most diligently they haue heaped vp store of testimonies out of the holy Scriptures they haue attributed the chiefe place to these therefore wee ought to bee content with their exposition of Scriptures and without sinne wee may desire no better This either is the sense of this place or else there is no sense in it And verely I professe you haue laid these things downe so faintlie and looselie that I can hardlie discerne their scope for what I pray you can bee spoken more loosely The fathers haue diligently laboured to vnderstand the Scriptures therefore in their exposition of them they haue neuer erred But we find many strange differing and dissenting expositions in the Fathers which all may well be false but more then one of them cannot be true I will giue you one example for a thousand b DVR VVe confesse euery Father may errâ— but we deny that all the Fathers of one age did euer fall into any error which vvas contrary to faith WHIT. pag. 412. As if this vvere not a matter of faith vvhether S. Paul lyed or vvhether he ingenuously reproued S. Peter as he professed he did For if S. Paul did it dissemblingly then may it be lavvfull for vs to dissemble and after confirme it vvith a lye both vvhich are contrary to sound doctrine But particular dissentions you stand not vpon you desire to see some generall vvhen you grant euery particular may erre vvill it not follovv that all may But see an example In the Councell of Constantinople held vnder Leo the Pope the Fathers there decreed to abolish Images out of Churches But the Nicene Councell vnder Iren. condemned this Canon yea and by a third Councell held in Germany this decree vvas againe condemned One of these certeinly must needs be deceiued Againe haue you forgotten that Augustine vvith Innocent the Bishop of Rome other Bishops of the Church did thinke it necessary that the Eucharist should be giuen to Infants vvhich error continued a long time in the Church Thinke you these are not points of faith S. Paul writeth Gala. 2.11 that at Antioch hee withstood Peter to his face what a kinde of opposition this was you would know but cannot of your selfe find it out You wonder that Paul would oppose Peter one Apostle another and happely you suspect some mystery may be hid in it you goe to the fathers you enquire of Hierome August Hieron in Epistol and of Augustine two very famous lights of the Latine Church What do they tell you Augustine thinke that S. Paul spoke ingenuously and as he thoughte Hierome that he spoke fainedly If you approue the one you must needs reiect the other for you cannot consent with both Sixe hundred of this kind I could propound vnto you I know how sayth Hierome otherwise to account of the Apostles then of other writers Hieron in Epist. ad Theophilis They euer spâ—â—kâ— the trâ—â—â— these as man haue erred in some things Yet they read the Scriptures they were conuersant in them and spent themselues wholly in meditating vpon them From these you may discerne how your accusation is most vniust and our defence most equall and iust I desire not to diminish the fathers due and worthy commendations so you will confesse they are men extoll them with all the prayses you can to the very heauens where they are now free Denizens I could wish that that which they constantly did either you would do search the Scripture or suffer vs to do then I doubt not but this fight would haue a good issue But the Scriptures which Christ ratified with his owne voice and commended to our diligent search you flie from and abhorre as theeues doe the gallowes you abandon them out of mens sight and yet you haue neuer done searching for you compasse sea and land to find out old traditions and customes long ago dead and buried mens inuentions decrees of Popes the corruptions of Churches fained and forged bookes diriges scrappes dreames and fables but the holy Scripture you touch not at all lest as I suppose they would make against you At length for shame cast away those your trifles which you so busily hunt after and search the Scriptures c DVR VVe allow all to read the Scriptures as many as can vvell and safely do it And then vve account the search good and sound vvhen men are able to interpret them not out of their ovvne heads but by the authority of the auncient Fathers WHIT pag. 415. You shew your good nature that you will not reproue that which is well done But may none else reade the Scriptures but men qualified as you write then very few must spend their labour in them But Christ commanded to search the Scriptures not the opinions and exposition of the Fathers yea and he commaunded all whosoeuer to seeke eternall life and desire to know Christ Joh. 5.39 and not the learned only as Christ hath commaunded Origen in Isas hom 1. and the ancient fathers haue done And would to God as Origen writeth we all would doe that which is written Search the
Scriptures If we were commanded to search the fathers of the Church vnwritten verities the Popes Canons wee would willingly set vp our rest there but when wee are called from them to the diligent search of the Scriptures doe not much blame vs if we so farre as you speake subscribe to the fathers as they agree with the Scriptures For you cannot iustly blame that in vs which you confesse is commendable in them d DVR If you thinke Christ commanded all you are greatly deceiued for hovv should the rude and ignorant search the Scriptures vvho as Augustine vvitnesseth must be saued not by sharpnesse of vnderstaÌ„ding but by simplicity of beleeuing Moreouer Christ gaue vnto the people Pastors and Doctors and not the bookes of the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 417. Christ verily spake to the people not to the learned and if he commanded all the Iewes to search the Scriptures why not all Christians but that they ought is proued by these places Act. 17.11 Coll. 3.16 Chrysostome vpon that place Hom. 9. Hierome vpon the same Origen in Jsaiam hom 2. Chrysost in Euangel Ioan. hom 13. Further if the people be ignorant you take the way to keepe them so But they verily ought to haue knowledge and you very learnedly make an argument from their defect Augustine as you would haue it doth not maintaine the ignorance of the people only he requireth not of them any subtile knowledge all must beleeue vvhich none can doe vvithout the knovvledge of the Scripture but the same quicknes of vnderstanding is not required in all Finally Christ who gaue them teachers gaue them also the Word neither vvere the Pastors to teach them any thing but the Scriptures vvhy then speake you thus as if these things ordeined one vnder another vvere contrary It is vvorthy the obseruing that in your iudgement Christ gaue not the Scriptures vnto the people if then they reade them they meddle vvith other mens right For Christ commanded vs aswell as them to search the Scriptures That therefore which is inioyned vs both to search it ought to be the purpose of both to finde out And doe you iudge it equall e DVR VVho vvill beleeue that you haue found out that they could not or vvho are you that accuse them of ignorance and error WHIT. pag. 423. I verily acknowledge that the Fathers excelled in all kind of learning I am so farre from accusing them of ignorance But if the Fathers haue often and greatly erred which you must confesse vvhether you vvill or no vvhy may not vve vvho are commanded to reade the Scriptures asvvvell as they hold fast the truth vve haue found and reiect the errors they haue deliuered vvho vvhile they liued ingenuously confessed themselues ignorant of many things and that they erred not in a fevv and vvould also doe no lesse if they vvere aliue againe that if they haue erred in searching wee should treade in their steps and reiect the trueth wee haue found out For wheresoeuer they find out the truth they sought after wee receiue it and consent with them And therefore Campian make you no doubt we speake vnfeinedly wee will subscribe to the fathers while they consent to the Scriptures Doth this thing please you so it seemeth For you say You will see that these most ancient writers S. Denys S. Cyprian S. Athanasius S. Basil S. Gregory Nazianzene S. Ambrose S. Hierome S. Chrysostome S. Augustine and S. Gregory the great shall come foorth well armed with the whole furniture of the bible But what if they will not obey your commandement neither serue for wages in your tents will you compell them against their willes to beare armes in your campes It is more then you can doe they will not indure themselues to bee thus compelled or forced You call them man by man but they wil not answere to those names yea both these now named by you and all auncient fathers doe proclaime open warre against you and if you please let vs spend a little time in the triall of it This Deuis whosoeuer he was cannot be on your side while you maintaine f DVR VVe Catholikes neither defend nor acknowledge a priuate Massâ— for all Masses are said by a publike Minister of the Church in the name of the whole and for the saluation of all the children of the Church is it offered WHIT. pag. 428. It is childish to contend about the Word you defend such a Masse as the Church knew not in the daies when Denys liued for your Masses are performed by one but the forme he speaketh of is performed by many And what if a publike Minister do it yet that being done of one must needs be priuate specially when either there are no people present or if they be present yet they do nothing but looke on and what profit can come to them by that hee doth as if that meate the Priest eateth feedeth the people Besiâ—es Christ neuer ordained such an offering himselfe once offered is the sacrifice which is profitable to the whole Church Againe what needeth the people once to communicant with him or what greater fruits shall they haue by it if they doe Lastly if the whole people may receiue saluation from that Masse which they neither tast see nor yet dreame of why will you not grant that Christ may be present to our faith though we be farre disioyned from his body priuate Masse For he hath described the publike communion of the whole Church such as Christ at the first instituted and the ancient Church euer held The very same thing doth Iustine the Philosopher and martyr Iustin. Apol 2. who in his Apologie before Anthony the Emperour layd open the order of discipline which Christ held in his holy assembly At that time the whole people receiued g DVR Jf you had but lightly read ouer Iustine you would neuer haue been so impudent for hee altogether alloweth our iudgement and no vvhere speaketh he of bread and wine giuen to the people WHIT. pag. 430. If you had read the place you might haue seene the contrary to your opinion and to all that you say his owne words shall manifest all They who with vs are called Deacons giue to euery one that is present part of the bread wine and water for which thankes are giuen Can any thing be said more contrary to your and more manifest for our opinion bread wine now with you they receiue neither h DVR Yet Cyprian vvrit thus Epist 55. The premacie is giuen to S. Peter that it might appeare there is one Church and one chaire WHIT. pag. 433. They are not Cyprians words but Pamelius vvho hath corrupted Cyprian bringing out of the margent into the text as appeareth by auncient copies And Gratian also obserued the same Causa 24.9.1 loquitur Cyprian makes all the Apostles equall with Peter Cyprian de Simplicitat praelat Lib. 1. Epist 4. and directly affirmeth that they haue like honour
profitable and fruitfull Finally what is a Christian life but that which is spent in the duties of charity for all Christians are bound vnto these duties Then notwithstanding all these Gregorie is still with vs. Nazianzen de haer Philosoph Nazianzene speaketh no lesse honourablie of this ciuill and sociable life than of the solitarie life of Monkes which your cloister men cannot indure Ambros in Rom. cap. 1. r DVR Ambrose codemneth suffragators not intercessors that is such as might informe God what we are not such as might commeÌ„d our vvants to him WHIT. pag. 446. As if God did not know as well our wants without an intercessor as what we are without a suffragator If he do why should the one be allowed more then the other This new distinction of yours I thinke our Vniuersity men neither know not wil acknowledge or what is intercessioÌ„ but a suffragation or what do you els desire of the Saints but that they would speake fauourablie for you to God Ambrose enueigheth bitterly against them who thinke it necessary for them when they would goe to God to vse some mediatours as men doe in courts of Princes before they can bee brought to the King himselfe they must seeke the fauour of some of his neere attendants Doth not this thing touch you doth not this speech draw blood of you who neuer aske any thing of God in your prayers but first you seeke some of the Saints to bee a mediatour for you to whom you commend the care of your businesse and requests Hieron Ep. Å¿ DVR Hierome neuer vvriteth thus but affirmeth that there is the like difference betwixt a Bishop a Priest and a Deacon as was betwixt Aaron and his sonnes and the Leuites Epist ad Euagr. And if there be equality it is in iurisdiction not in povver of order WHIT. pag. 447. It is strange that you deny that which Hierome directly affirmeth in the beginning of the same Epistle namely that the Apostle doth plainly teach that a Bishop and a Priest are all one and this he proueth by many testimonies of the Scripture And vpon the 1. chap. to Titus hee affirmeth plainly that a Bishop is aboue a Priest by custome not by Gods ordinance And so must that be vnderstood you bring out of the forenamed Epistle And where you acknowledge the same iurisdiction of both by the law of God which happely slipped from you vnawares their vnequall power must needs be only by the law of man Hierome did too much contemne your Pope and other your glorious Bishops when hee writeth that a Priest and a Bishop by the law of God are all one doe you iudge him worthy to bee a Father of the Romish Church the Bishop whereof you make not onely to be farre aboue all Priests but also all Bishops t DVR Leo the Pope did decree this first of all and Gelatius the fourth after him confirmed it least any of the Manichies vvho superstitiously and vvickedly abstained from blood might looke among the Catholikes WHIT pag. 451. I will accept your answere though your Gratian bee against it But who seeth not what a goodly patron you are of the popish cause who make the Manichies the first author of the dismembring of the Supper But whosoeuer did it Gelatius censureth it thus The diuision of one and the same mystery cannot bee without great sacriledge And so by a Pope is the whole Popish Church condemned of sacriledge Gelasius who himselfe was a Bishop of Rome condemneth your drie and maimed supper as Sacrilegious and strictly commandeth De consecrat dist 2. Comperimus Vigil lib. 1. cont Eutych that either the whole be receiued or it be wholly omitted Will the authoritie of the Pope moue you no whit at all Vigilius writeth that Christ is departed from vs in his humane nature u DVR Vigilius meaneth that Christ withdrevv from the vvorld the visible presence of his humanity and not the humane nature himselfe WHIT. pag. 453. But the words that follow after shew the cleane contrary He therfore is vvith vs and not vvith vs because whom he left and from whom he departed in his humanity he hath not left nor forsaken in his Diuinity And againe in lib. 4. contr Eutych vvhen he vvas in the earth hee vvas not in heauen and novv that he is in heauen hee is not in the earth And againe hee vvas circumscribed in a place according to his humane nature and not conteined in a place according to his Diuinity this is the Catholike confession and faith vvhich the Apostles haue deliuered the Martyrs haue confirmed and the faithfull haue kept to this day If this be the Catholike faith then are not you Catholikes vvho iudge farre otheâ—vvise of the humanity of Christ The Sonne of God in his humane nature is gone from vs but in his diuine nature hee is alwayes with vs whereas you say Christ is present in both natures * DVR Chrysostome because hee savv many so addicted and giuen to theaters stage plaies and impious Interludes did thus admonish them lest they should distast the reading of the Scriptures WHIT pag. 458. Be it so haue you also no impious places and spectacles and prophane exercises And yet vvith you any thing is lawfull saue reading of the Scriptures But vvho so readeth Chrysostome in Ioan. hom 13. in Epist. ad Coloss hom 9. de Lazaro hom 3. shall find that he required this simplie necessarily and generally of all men Chrysostome exhorteth lay men and all the people that they would get them Bibles Chrysost ad Coloss hom 9. in Ioan. hom 8. reade the Scriptures and that at home in their houses the husband with the wife the father with his children would conferre among themselues of the Scriptures But this neither can nor lawfully may be done in your Church yea it is a certaine proofe of an heretique for any to haue the Bible in his house What shall I say of Augustine who in the greatest and most principall controuersies as of grace predestination free will iustification the Scripture the Law the Gospel sinne good workes Sacraments and Church is wholly and fully ours I should neuer make an end if I should pursue particulars and collect but a little of euery thing Gregor lib. 4. Epist. 30. 34. Gregory the great though he was a Bishop of Rome yet will he take our part against you For tell mee doth hee not touch your Pope to the quicke when peremptorily he affirmed that whosoeuer should call himselfe the x DVR Gregory condemned Iohn because he sought for such an authority ouer all Bishops as the Emperour had ouer the Kings vvho are subiect vnto them WHIT. pag. 460. Whether Iohn of Constantinople sought such a povver or no it is not certaine but no man can be ignorant how the Pope affecteth it And long ago hath not only got authority ouer the Bishops but hath subdued the Emperour
of the Father To be God he hath that of f DVR If the Sonne of God haue not his essence from the Father surely be is not the Sonne of the Father WHIT. pag. 542. And vvhy so did Caluin euer deny that the Son hath his essence from the Father he and vve all teach that the Sonne vvas begotten of the Fathers essence and that the Sonne hath the vvhole essence of the Father and that not by decision or propagation as the wicked Pritheâ—â—s dreame but by coÌ„munication And yet hâ—â—e you multiply Scriptures and Fathers needlesly This vve say Christ is God of himselfe but in this sense that that essence vvhich is in the Sonne is not from any other essence but of and from himselfe seeing that the essence of the Father and the Sonne is one and the same For essence as Basil truly vvriteth against Eunomius cannot be generated and pag. 543. vvherefore Christ so farre forth as he is God is of himselfe and so farre forth as he is the Sonne is of the Father for he cannot be God vvhose essence is not of and from it selfe so Basil and Augustine himselfe because he is God by himselfe What say you now Campian God of God is with Caluin God of himselfe and say you so indeed hath not Caluin admonished you of this that the name of God is to be taken for the Father when as Christ is termed the Sonne of God That therefore which the Nicene Fathers deliuer that Christ is God of God that is so to be vnderstood that we should confesse the Sonne to be begotten of the Father and not that we should attribute the name of God only to the Father for we must looke to it that wee doe not so determine the Sonne to bee of the Father as that wee should deny him to be God of himselfe And these things Caluin hath interpreted most diligently and most holily nor hath he set forth any one word at all different from the faith of the Scriptures and of the Catholike Church Remember that sentence of Augustine Christ in respect of himself is termed God Hom. de Temp. 38. but in respect of the Father he is termed the Sonne wherein you may acknowledge the opinion of the auncient Church Now you set vpon Beza for like to the fashion of mad dogges you stand not in one place but flie hither and thither and vpon whomsoeuer you light you bite him shrewdly with your venomous teeth Beza saith as you say he is not begotten of the essence of the Father Why are you angrie with Beza if he say the same things which are wont to be said maintained by your owne selues For you cannot be ignorant what your Lombard teacheth touching the oslence of God which both he and the schoole men that haue followed him do affirme neither to get nor to be begotten For that essence is not begotten by essence but person by person If Beza would imitate these in saying that Christ was begotten not of the essence but of the person of the Father why doe you reproue him and yet we may not imagine that the essence is separated from the person as if the essence of the Sonne were another from the essence of the Father for there is but one simple essence of the Deity but for asmuch as person is distinguished froÌ„ essence albeit not in the thing yet by rolation and sith tho Ancient were wont to speake after this manner that they said Christ was begotten of the person of the Father rather then of his essence it is no maruel that the same forme of speech did like Beza best whose iudgement it was euer that we ought to set downe determinations touching the highest mysteries very warily and with great consideration Now that the essence is not begotten the whole auncient Church held as Basil writeth expresly Câ—ntr Euâ—â—m lib. 1. God is not begotten either of himselfe 〈◊〉 of any other Albeit I do not very wel know whether these be Bezaâ— words which you recite surely I remember not that I haue euer read them in Beza nor can I find them in this place which you quote But those that follow are very malitious Beza said once that there be two personall vnions in Christ as you say the one of the soule with the body the other of the Godhead with the manhood Which speech of his Iames Andreas reproued and indeed not without cause albeit this doth not follow out of that speech that there are two persons in Christ though there bee two personall vnions but that because it was written ambiguously Beza professeth that he would willingly mend it And what can you desire more if he haue erred yet he persisted not in his error but hath amended his fault with what face therefore can you vpbraide him with that which fell from him but once ere he was aware seeing he corrected it after And touching the person of Christ Beza euery where teacheth those things than which nothing can be more true and sincere nor is there any of vs that is wont to affirme or defend that which you obiect concerning those two personall vnions For we confesse but one person constituted of the two natures as also we acknowledge but one personall vnion for although Christ did assume both body and an humane soule yet these parts are not so personally ioyned together in Christ as that they do make any person separate from his Godhead lest we should imagine that Christ consisteth of two persons Now againe you make recourse to Caluin whom I thought you had quite giuen ouer before Caluin denieth that the place of Iohn I and my Father are one doth shew that Christ is God of the same substance with the Father What then Campian was it so hainous an offence to dissent from the auncient Fathers in the exposition of one place Did he euer deny that Christ is of the same substance with the Father you cannot maintaine it For hee alwaies taught it most constantly and confuted the Arrians by other innumerable texts of holy Scripture For what doe you thinke that he cannot be of the same substance with the Father vnlesse this place teach it he that heedfully readeth ouer that dispute of Christ with the Iewes which Iohn in that chapter setteth downe Ioh. 10. shal easily perceiue that rather g DVR What is this that you say Iohn signified the vnion of power will and not of essence are you so rude as that you are ignorant that in God povver and essence are the same WHIT. pag. 546. I am not so rude but that I well vnderstand that the power of God is the essence of God but doth it follow if Christ being endowed and enuironed with the power of God could not be ouercome but that God also should be ouercome that the essentiall power of God and Christ is the same an vnity of will and power then of essence is signified Christ affirmeth that no man
into the minds of our Vniuersitie men by these meanes by lying so openly so shamefully and so boldly O Rome what a Campian hast thou returned to vs how much chaunged from him that he was when thou receiuedst him Art thou wont so to instruct adorne and polish thy pensioners as that they retaine nothing of their auncient shamefastnes What may I complaine of or to whom should I appeale surely euen to the very same our Vniuersitie men to whom you your selfe write they may conuince you by their testimonies For within these two yeares our Cambridge men haue heard this very matter twise propounded and defended in the diuinity Schooles That sinnes are not equall If neither our owne confession nor the testimonie of all mortall men can make enough for the defending of our innocencie be it that we are Stoikes and heretikes and euery thing else But these are * DVR Herein Caluin made sinnes equall for that hee thought all sins to be deadly and vvorthy of euerlasting punishment WHIT. pag. 578. Therefore doth Caluin make all sinnes equall because hee proueth that all sinner are in their owne nature deadly but the Scripture hath taught this most plainly For if euery sinne be the transgression of Gods law and an auersion defection from God which is the chiefest good it must needs in it selfe deserue eternal death Rom. 6.21.23 Iam. 2.10 though euery sinne in Gods iustice is odiudged to eternall death yet it doth not equally deserue it Caluins words saith Campian howsoeuer with an exception if they be pondered by God the Iudge What are these the words of Caluin that he saith sinnes are equall but so if they be weighed by God the Iudge nothing lesse for Gods iudgements could not be right if so be he did iudge sinnes to be equall But marke yee a singular witnesse The Fathers of the Councell of Trent pronounce a curse on them who affirme that a iust man doth sin either mortally or venially in euery good worke To this Caluin answereth that which Salomon saith Antidot 6. Sess in Can. 25. that man thinketh his owne waies right but God pondereth the hearts But in the iudgement of God nothing is sincere and honest but that which floweth from the perfect loue of him Caluin speaketh not one word of the equalitie of sins nor was there any cause why he should Only this he intendeth if the Lord would weigh in his ballance the excellentest works of godly men that he would easily find what to coÌ„demne what is this to the purpose As for that that Thomas Walsingham did obiect against Wicliffe it is not much materiall he wrote many things against Wicliffe being dead and let passe no slander which witty malice could deuise While Wicliffe was aliue no aduersaries could hurt him but being dead they condemned him they plucked him out of his graue burned his body when they might without danger deuise any thing against that most holy man Neither can I euer be induced to beleeue that Wicliffe taught these things if this imputation depend vpon no greater credit than of an aduersarie As touching that that you report of the Duke of Guise I defend not the fact he that committed it suffered punishmeÌ„t greater I wis than Tauerners are wont that kill pullen when there is no need I confesse that the Guise was a man of admirable fortitude I would he had been of more clemencie He was flaine euen as you say by a wicked man whom if perhaps either hope of impunity or feare of punishment did induce that being examined hee did accuse verie noble and innocent men it is neither marueilous nor new Him that he did appeach as the Ringleader of his plot the King himselfe did pronounce an innocent but as for Beza all good men haue acquitted him in their iudgements long ago From Sinne you passe your speech to Grace Of Grace I would rather you your selfe did make passage and you hope that we who are so strict in the matter of sin will play the Philosophers so gloriously about Gods Grace Surely we shall thinke we play the Philosophers very well if we referre all our Philosophie for the amplifying of the Crosse of Christ Gal. 6.14 You also do treate of Grace but as still you are wont in few words But what do you reproue in our Philosophie because we place Grace out of vs only in the fauouer of God For you Campian would haue your men to be perswaded that we take all Grace from man and doe place it only in the mind of God like Platoes Idea But either you know not what you talke of in this place and that you are ignorant of this Philosophie or els you suffer not our opinion being infolded in your slanders to bee manifest For wee make grace to bee twofold that I may omit many distinctions wherein wee doe not disallow the Philosophie of your Schoole men For either Grace declareth the free goodwill and clemencie of God toward vs or else it signifieth those gifts which flow out of that mercy of God to vs. That they commonly call Grace making acceptable and this Grace freely giuen Now for that x DVR I know vvell your doctrine of imputatiue iustice than vvhich I know not whether any man can deuise one thing more against the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 582. Thus you speake like a Iesuite but vvhat is there that the Scripture doth more celebrate than imputatiue iustice Rom. 4.3.4.5.6 is a most cleere text for it But what know you not that our sins were imputed to Christ and why then may not Christs righteousnes be imputed to vs in lâ—ke manner Thinke you that Christ had our sinnes really infused into him I suppose you will neuer say so seeing then in the one part you are compelled against your will to confesse an imputation why do you not also grant it in the other specially seeing the Apostle himselfe propoundeth vs this Antithesis 2. Cor. 5.21 Christ vvas made sinne for vs that we might be made the righteousnes of God in him Therefore we are so made righteousnes in Christ as he was made sinne for vs which must necessarily bee vnderstood of imputation And veâ—â—ly whereas our iniustice or iniquitie is a debt and Christ hath payed it then must it of necessity follow that that payment is ours no otherwise then only by imputation Againe I pray you what can bee imagined more absurde then that the meritâ— of Saints should be imputed vnto vs and Christ his righteousnes cannot bee for they who buy indulgences with money doe not doubt but to reape much fruit from the merits of others It then the merits of Saints as you thinke can make them more iust in whom they are not inherent what an impious and absurd thing were it to giue lesse power of imputation to the merits and righteousnes of Christ DVR Charity iâ— the end of the Law Rom. 13. For he that loueth his brother hath fulfilled the Lavv. So that
without faith but to his perdition who receiueth the Sacrament that monster I doe abhorre and detest with mine whole hart You adde therfore they haue made no more reckoning of the Baptisme of Christ then of Iohns that is a meere ceremonie I am not ignorant what the Fathers thought of the Baptisme of Iohn But I heed what the Scriptures teacheth not what they imagined In them both there was the u DVR But Matth. 3.11 Iohn baptised with water only Christ with the Spirit WHIT. pag. 669. Here is no comparison betweene the Baptisme but the persons for not Iohn only but not Peter nor any Minister of the Gospel can giue the holy Ghost to those whom they doe baptise Men giue but the outward signe it is Christ who giueth the Spirit DVR VVhy vvere they Act. 19 4.5 baptised againe vvhom Iohn had baptised if it be the same Baptisme WHIT. pag. 671. They were not rebaptised as Ambrâ—se saith de Spirit Sanct. lib. 1. cap. 3. And the 5. vers being S. Pauleâ— words they are to be vnderstood not of those Ephesians but of the people whom John baptised As if S. Paul had said John taught those who came to his Baptisme to beleeue in Christ who was to come and they when they heard it were baptised in the name of the â—ord Iesus From this then can be gathered no differencâ— of thesâ— tvvo Baptismes same ceremonie the same doctrine and the same grace If there were any thing vnlike in these things I refuse not to confesse that the Baptisme of Iohn and Christ were diuers Now Iohn ioyned repentance Mat. 3 2.1â— Luk. 3.3 which is the fruit of true regeneration with his Baptisme and offâ—ed this Baptisme for the remission of sinnes If the Baptisme of Iohn wanted not repentance and remission of sinnes I see not why it should bee held so much different from the Baptisme of Christ And what is the cause * DVR Because that Baptisme did prepare men to regeneration of vvhich preparation Christ had no need WHIT. pag. 673. This is but your coyned distinction for the Fathers speake and answere otherwise Chrysâ—st in 3. Matth. not that he should receiue remission of sinne by â—aptisme but that be might leaue saâ—ctified waters for those who should after be baptised And August in cat â—ur in 3. Matth. Our Sauiour would therefore be baptised not that bee might bee sanctified but that he might sanctifie the waters for vs. why the Fathers demand wherfore Christ who needed no regeneration did come to the Baptisme of Iohn but because they iudged that his Baptisme had the power of regeneration Concerning that which you annexe If you haue it it is well if you want it there is no hurt beleeue and you shall be saued before you bee baptised wee doe not speake so loosely as you imagine For wee will not haue it to be in any ones choice to be baptised if hee will and to leaue it if hee will not Yet wee doe not thinke that Baptisme is so x DVR VVhat If without Baptisme infants may obtaine eternall life is it not your iudgements that it is no burt to them though they want Baptisme But Christ thought farre â—therwise Ioh. 3.5 WHIT. pag. 675. It is a wicked and batbarouâ— opinion to thinke that they who die before they can come to Baptisme are damned For who will say that the infants of the Iewes who died before the eight day did pâ—rish And when in former ages they deferred Baptisme till the houre of death did they think it so absolute necessary Will you say that an infant is not of the nuÌ„ber of the elect because God wil that he die before Baptisme if you will you shall be accounted bold rash and impious As for the place of Iohn Christ doth not thinke that none can come into heauen which wanteth the outward Baptisme The theefe was with Christ in Paradise and yet was vnbaptised with the outward Baptisme But the truth is by water Christ meaneth there the Spirit as appeareth by conference of places Matth. 3.11 As there fire so here water signifieth the power of the Spirit Ioh. 4.10 simplie necessarie to saluation that he that is not entred by Baptisme must needs perish euerlastingly For the saluation of a Christian man coÌ„sisteth in the mercie of God which is not so tyed bound to any Sacraments y DVR God hath shewed his vvill Ioh. 3.5 And â—hen S. Paul makes all by nature the Children of wrath Ephes 2.3 If there be no remedie against this euill in the Scripture but Baptisme what can be but that they vvho die vvithout Baptisme must needs die in the same condition WHIT. 677. God in no place hath shewed this to bee his will that they who die without Baptisme shall perish Of the words of Christ haue â—in spoken which if they be vnderstood of Baptisme they belong only to those who are of growne yeares That by no other meanes we can be freed from the miserable state of nature but by Baptisme is very false For the Spirit of God doth in and without the Sacrament doth communicate his graces as that he cannot saue those whom he will not haue perish without them Where the opportunity of Baptisme is not Gods promise alone is abundantly sufficient of it selfe But whosoeuer either neglecteth Baptisme through heedlesnes or boldly contemneth it him we condemne of very hainous sin For he doth both diminish the Maiestie of Christ and also refuseth his owne saluation But he that committeth neither shal not answere for the fault of another Therefore verie right was that iudgement of Bernard z DVR He speaketh not of infants but of those vvho indued with true faith were preuented by an vntimely death that they could not be baptised WHIT. pag. 680. How truly you speake we may iudge out of the same Epistle For he thus writeth VVho is ignorant that in former times they had other remedies against originall sinne besides Baptisme for to Abraham and his seed vt as the Sacrament of Circumcision giuen to this end But in other nations so many as vvere found faithfull vvee beleeue that they vvho vvere of yeares vvere sanctified by faith and sacrifices but the parents faith did profit their infants yea and vvas sufficient for them If this was so before Christ shall we thinke the condition of infants is now worse not the want but the contempt of Baptisme is damnable Bernard in Epist. ad Hugon In the rest that follow as being small matters you doe but trisle For neither doe you your selfe declare any thing of your owne opinions nor can you reproue any thing in ours But I long to know what you thinke of the faith of Infants I suppose you wil grant that they haue grace For say you Baptisme conferreth grace But will you not yeeld that they haue faith I wish therefore you would teach me to the end you may draw me wholy into your opinion how
also happily at thy commaund though not to be drawne with thy hand speaking to the Pope WHIT. pag. 747. Duraeus is ashamed of this sophisme buâ— yet he fathereth it vpon Bernard which also Iohannes a Capistrano of the Pope and Councels p 77. and others of them haue handled and Pope Boniniface girt himselfe with a sword in signe hereof but this place speaketh nothing at all for any such power Pope must beare both swords The seruant is not aboue his master therefore i DVR What Catholike euer taught or wrote thus howbeit the Fathers of the Sinuessan Councell said The chiefe seate is iudged of no man WHIT. pag. 749. Thus you will make the Pope no Catholike who saith Dist 40. si Pâ—pa The Pope may bee reproued of no mortall man though he leade with him innumerable people vnto hell And who knoweth not these two pillers of Popery the Church of Rome cannot erre whatsoeuer it teacheth and the Pope may not be accused whatsoeuer â—e doth The Bishops of the Sinuessan Synode spake to Marcellinus the Pope who had denied Christ and committed Idolatrie and might bee accused by the Popes owne lawes so that in citing that authoritie you contradict both your selfe and your lawes it is lawfull for no man to accuse or reproue the Pope Christ prayed that Peters faith should not faile him k DVR Christ made Peter his Vicar on earth and by his prayer obtained that his Vicars faith might not faile by force vvherof the Pope cannot erre as Augustine and Cyprian also perceiued WHIT pag. 750. It is not true that Christ made Peter his Vicar nor doth it follow Peters faith failed not therefore no Popes faith hath failed who are his successors for Popes haue done and may fall into heresies as you will confesse and may erre in faith saith Pope Boniface Dâ—st 40. Papa which he could not do it this argument of yours vvere true Further Christ prayed for all his Apostles and the whole Church shal we say Christs prayer was lesse effectuall for the rest then for Peter If it be not then none of their successors could erre no more then Peters which I suppose you will not affirme And Augustine and Cyprian neuer reasoned as you do you abuse their names therefore the Pope cannot erre The vulgar people commeth seldome and negligently to the Lords Supper l DVR If you beleeued the Prophet Malachie or the Masse you vvould confesse this argument to be good WHIT pag. 753. You can neuer proue your Masse by the Prophet Malachie who speaketh of the prayers of the godly as Tertullian Eusebius and Jerome expound him and if the Masse were a sacrifice indeed as you call it the peoples negligence is no sufficient cause to make it priuate and yet to profit the people yea though they be absent you may aswel abuse the Word it selfe so and say it is inough when it is in publike it the Priest handle it and heare it and beleeue it alone yet the people being absent and not dreaming of any such thing may be saued by it therefore the Priest may celebrate priuate Masse Christ admitted onlie his Apostles to Suppe therefore Priests alone must m DVR The people also receiue the vvhole Sacrament vnder one kind WHIT pag. 754. It is childish dotage to say so as though one part of a thing were the vvhole or as if Christ appointing both bread and wine ordained more then a whole Sacrament that Pope was wiser vvhich said of certaine heretikes that refrained from the Cup as you doâ— De concil dist 2. cap. Comperimus Let them either receiue the vvhole Sacrament or refuse all DVR Christs vvords Drinke yee all of this proue nâ—t that all Christians must doe so WHIT. pag. 755. They doe proue it as those vvords take eate doe proue that all must eate and you may as vvell keepe both the elements from the people as one contrarie to S. Paul 1. Cor. 11.23 DVR The Passeouer might be eaten vvithout vvine WHIT. pag. 756. It might because God had not commaunded vvine but Christ himselfe commaundeth it in his Supper 1. Cor. 11.45 DVR The common people are aâ—t bound to drinke of the Cap for S. Paul saith As oft as ye drinke it to signifie they were not commanded so to doe WHIT. So he saith of the bread also As of as yee eate 1. Cor. 11.26 so that by your argument neither is the bread commanded them receiue the Sacrament the people ought to bee contented only with one part The title which Pilate fastned vpon the Crosse was written in Hebrew Greeke Latine therfore n DVR No Catholike doth so reason we say that title had in it a mysterie and Augustine proueth by it that the vvord coessentâ—all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be vsed in the Creede WHIT. pag. 757. Papists often reason thus as all men knovve which read their writings though you bee ashamed of it Tell vs what mysterie you meane if it bee worth the labour as for Augustine hee speakes no word that makes here for your cause yet you blush not to quote him prayers must bee read in the Churches in no language but either Hebrew or Greeke or Latine Harding That which is holy must not be giuen to dogges o DVR VVe say not that all but that some of the people may not haue the Scriptures committed to them WHIT. pag. 758. Who doubteth but that vvisedome is to be vsed in teaching the people and that they vvhich shevv themselues dogges and hogges must be barred from the Scriptures but this is nothing to the present question vvhether this reason be good vvhich Papists sometimes vse and vvhich here you should haue spoken to and not thus vvander therfore the vulgar people must be forbidden to reade the Scriptures This is my bodie therefore the p DVR Christ said it vvay his bodie WHIT. pag. 759. Christ by an vsuall phrase of Scripture called the thing signifying by the name of the thing signified because of the sacramentall ioint receiuing of both to vvit of the bread vvith the mouth and of his bodie by faith Againe if that vvhich vvas in Christs hands vvere his reall body vvhen he said so then vvas transubstantiation before vvhich you deny and then he had tvvo bodies but if it vvere bread then is there a metonymie in his vvords as vvee truly say bread is turned into Christs bodie Fall downe before his footestoole q DVR Ambrose and Augustine reasoned so from this Scripture WHIT p. 761. That is false they teach onely that vve must vvorship Christ in the mysteries and Sacrament not the myâ—teries and Sacrament themselues therefore the Sacrament must be worshipped God is no respecter of persons Pighius r DVR That vvas Pighius his error but the iudgement of Catholike Vniuersities is that foreseeing of merits is no cause of Predestination WHIT. pag. 762. Thus you fall from your champion Pighius in vvords
orphanorum Tu leuamen oppressorum Medicamen infirmorum Omnibus es omnia That is to say Thou blessed Virgin Marie art the infallible l DVR Saint Paul calleth the Thessalonians his hope 1. Thess 2.19 WHIT. pag. 796. But hee neuer put his trust in nor called vpon them as you doe the Virgin Marie hee called them his hope because he receiued great hope and ioy by his labours in their conuersion You make the Virgin an instrument of our saluation and therefore you trust in her but the Scriptures teach euery where to trust in God and Christ only As Psal 71.3 Ier. 17.5.7 1. Tim. 1.1 and 1. Pet. 1.21 hope of such as are in miserie the true mother of Orphanes Thou art the consolation of such as be oppressed the medicine of such as bee diseased Thou art all m DVR The sentence of the Catholike Church hath no vvhere alloued this but if it had it might be conueniently defended WHIT pag. 797. Duraeus can conueniently expound that which most absurdly taketh the office of reâ—eÌ„ption froÌ„ Christ and giueth it to the Virgin Mary in all to all men or in all necessities and other such like abominable speeches and full of strange blasphemie If happily you thinke our reproouing of these things be but some fighting with a shadow then doe you no more respect the glorie of God than the shadow of an Asse The second error in disputation wherewith you charge vs Logomachia is that wee often vse Logomachia which is when the sense is neglected and men contend about the word I vnderstand it well but which bee those our faults committed in this kinde Can you finde vs say they the Masse or Purgatorie in the Scriptures And is not this our demaund reasonable For where should these be found rather than in the Scriptures There was nothing wont to be accounted more holy than the Masse and there could nothing be inuented more gainfull than Purgatorie that neither of these now at last should be found in the Scriptures certainly it may well seeme a very strange and vnreasonable thing Belike then say you Trinitas the Trinitie Homousios coessentiall Persona a person are no where in the Bible because these very termes are not to be found there Neither say we so Campian nor will it follow at all hereupon and these things be altogether vnequally compared For albeit these very termes are not in Scriptures Epiphan contra Semiarian l. 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet the matter it selfe and the sense as Epiphanius writeth commeth to hand in all places and is easily euery where to bee found But your n DVR Did you neuer reade these vvords of Christ in his last Supper this is my body WHIT. pag. 799. Yea but Christ ordeined then a SacrameÌ„t not a sacrifice he offered himselfe a sacrifice only once vpon the Crosse Heb 9 10. not in his last Supper except you will say he died then also vvhich he must haue done to make it a sacrifice but he was then aliue it were most absurd to say he was aliue and dead at one time which he needs must be both then and in al your Masses if there be any sacrifice in the Masse at all Againe externall sacrifices as you say your Masse is are subiect to the sight outward senses but no man euer saw Christ to be sacrificed either in the Supper or in the Masse Therefore there is none neither in the one nor in the other DVR Jt vvas a sacrifice for Christ vvas really conteined vnder those former of bread and vvine and so the Masse is novv an vnbloodie sacrifice WHIT. pag. 801. You cannot prooue him to be so present there as you teach by no Scripture and if he were yet that was not therefore a sacrifice except you will haue his reall being in the Virgins wombe also to be a sacrifice in which he was conteined As for your vnbloody propitiatorie sacrifice first it is absurd for to sacrifice killeth a bodie but your Transubstantiation maketh a bodie secondly it hath no word of God for it thirdly it is needlesse Christs sacrifice being perfect fourthly Christ ordained that supper in memorie of his sacrifice not to be it selfe a sacrifice WHIT. pag. â—03 DVR Many of the Fathers call the Eucharist by the name of sacrifice WHIT. pag 805. Not because it is that same which Christ offered as you teach but because it is a memoriall and Sacrament of it DVR Purgatorie is most plainely prooued by the fact of Iudas Machabaeus in the second booke and 12. chapter WHIT. pag. 806. Those bookes are not Canonicall Scripture neither doth that act prooue a Purgatorie by your owne doctrine who say those that die in deadly sinne as those did there mentioned goe to hell and not to Purgatorie Masse and Purgatorie are not in this manner in the Scriptures seeing neither the names nor the things themselues any where do appeare yea they are plainly against the Scriptures For what else is either the Masse than as * Bustum coenae Dominica an empty sepulchre where is onely the title of the Lords Supper or what is Purgatorie more than a shamelesse merchandise of soules and an intolerable contempt against the blood of Christ Wherefore this is not a trisling contention about words but a most waightie one about matters of moment except peraduenture you make account of the Masse and Purgatorie not to bee matters of moment but words of Arte only As for the name o DVR The office of a Presbyter or Elder in the Gospell is the same that the Priests office vvas in the Lavve WHIT. pag. 807. It is not so for if the office did remaine why should the name be changed for Elders are neuer called Priests in the new Testament And there be ruling Elders in the Church which labour not in the Ministerie of the word and Sacraments as the Priests did Presbyter and Sacrament it is appropriated from the common signification to some certaine and particular things as likewise many other names are to wit Ecclesia the Church Episcopus a Bishop Apostolus an Apostle Diaâ—onus a Deacon and these names wee willingly vse but so that wee carefully shunne their impertinent significations Neither was that indeede sufficient cause why you should register Matrimonie in the catalogue of Sacraments because S. Paul wrote thus Sacramentum hoc magnum Eph. 5. This is a great mysterie For in that place Sacramentum is vsed in a large signification for any mysterie not for that ceremony which may properly be called a Sacrament As for that counsell of Thomas Aquinas we doe very well approue it The third head Homonymia or kinde of deceitfull disputation which you say we vsually erre in is Homonymia equiuocation or a mistaking the sense of words whereof you propound two examples For say you we both confound the order of Priests because S. Iohn hath tearmed vs all Priests and also abolish choice of
is no more our fault then yours the controuersie is about the word of God You contend that you haue it I contrariwise defend that we haue it if you like not my iudgement why may not I dislike yours But you say we expound the word c DVR You doe so for you proue the sense of Scripture vvhich you alleage neither by authoritie of Fathers nor by decrees of Councels nor by the rule of faith that is the common vse and custome of Christians WHIT. pag. 831. The meaning of the Scriptures in matters necessarie to saluation is plainely taught in the Scriptures as the Fathers themselues confesse and may bee found out by religious conferring of easier and harder places and such like meanes and so we proue the true sense of them The Fathers expositions often erre and varie one from another as their writings witnesse and you vvill confesse the auncient Councels expound little of the Scriptures as for the vse and customs of the people it is no rule of faith at all nor must vvee expound the Scriptures thereby amisse I againe auouch that it is false which you say Whither are you now come at last go one foote further forward if you can Why say you I haue the testimonie of fifteene hundred yeeres This is nought else but a friuolous a foolish and an insolent bragge You haue not I say you haue not Campian You are euer heere deceiued and turne round againe as it were into a circle and are faultie in that same very thing for which you reprooue vs. Touching the Fathers I haue answered you alreadie In the questions of greatest waight they are wholly on our d DVR Jf it vvere so you vvould not extenuate their authoritie nor refuse to stand to their iudgement as you doe WHIT. pag. 833. We giue the Fathers their due but rely more vpon the Scriptures which are infallibly true you are driuen from the Scriptures and rake vp euen out of the Fathers ouersights whatsoeuer seemeth to fauour your errors neither doth it follow that the Fathers are not on our side in many and the greatest controuersies because wee say with Augustine that all controuersies of religion must not bee determined out of the Fathers but onely by the Scriptures side in those of smaller moment their iudgemeÌ„ts are diuers and they make for you in very few and those of least importance How much better would it stand with wisedome that as Augustine sometime wrote of Councels neither you should obiect Ierome against me nor I Augustine against you Aug. contra Maximian lib. 3. cap. 14 thereby to preiudice each side but that matter might be tried with matter cause with cause and reason with reason by the authority of the Scriptures Aug. Epist 111. ad Fortunatian For indeed as the same Augustine hath elsewhere taught vs we must not haue any mens disputations howsoeuer otherwise they be meÌ„ of sound iudgement and worthie praise in like estimation as the e DVR No Catholike euer esteemed any mans vvittings to be compared vvith the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 834. But Papists not onely compare them with but also preferre them before the Scriptures for they vvill not haue controuersies tried by the Scriptures but by the Fathers and they sooner allovv a sentence of one Father than many Scriptures so did not Angustine nor Thomas Aquinas Canonicall Scriptures Such an vnderstander saith he am I in reading other mens writings such would I haue other men to be of mine And because you haue mentioned Thomas Aquinas The. Aquinas 1. p. 1. q. 2. Art learne of him what manner argumeÌ„ts may be taken out of the Fathers writings Diuinity or holy learning saith he vseth authorities of Canonicall Scripture to proue or disproue a thing necessarily but it vseth the authorities of other f DVR VVe say not that the iudgement of one or tvvo of the Fathers but that the common consent of the Pasters and Doctors of the Church is the strongest argument to confute you WHIT. 833.835 Augustine and Thomas spake also of all men opposing onely Scriptures vnto them so that apparantly they taught that the consent of all Fathers and Doctors could bee but a probable reason and that the Scriptures onely yeeld necessarie arguments vvhich no consent of men though neuer so learned Doctors and Pastors can confute Further I say pag. 854. that you haue the common consent of all the Fathers in no one cause against vs yea that all the auncient Fathers doe together with vs vvith one voyce condemne your halfe Communion Transubstantiation reall presence sole Communion bread-vvorshipping externall reall sacrifice seruice in strange language your Popes absolute iurisdiction and many other such like Doctors of the Church to dispute of a thing probably These forsooth ô you truly learned Vniuersitie students are those so notorious sophisticall errors which Campian could finde worthie his censure in our mens writings I could wish you might haue this so famons a Sophister to canuas awhile at home in your Schooles then verily would it easily appeare how much truth excelleth falshood and how farre sound learning preuaileth against vaine bragging words for I know well such Sophisters as this is can neither any whit affright nor greatly perplex you EDMVND CAMPIAN The tenth Reason which is all manner of Witnesses THis shall be to you a direct path so that the simplest that bee neede not wander out of it For who is Esay 35. though he be but of the meaner sort of common people so senselesse so that he haue an eye vnto his soules health that cannot see if he looke but a little about him the path of the Church so plainely trodden that cannot keepe it if he dislike of by-wayes that lead him through brambles and ragged roches and places that cannot be passed These things shall be well knowne euen of those that be ignorant as Esay hath prophecied and therefore most manifest vnto you If you will * Campian bringeth nothing in this place but a continuall begging of the question let vs take a view of all things that are any where to be seene let vs trauerse ouer euery thing wheresoeuer it be All things do minister matter fit for our purpose Let vs ascend into heauen by imagination there may we finde such as through martyrdome Coelites are as ruddie as the red a August Serm. 37. de Sanct. rose and also such as for their innocencie while they liued do glister as beautifully as the white Lilly There may we see I say those * Of which not one was a Papist three and thirty Bishops of b Dam. in vit Poâ—â— Rom. Rome which for their faith were immediatlie murthered one after another There may we see such Pastors as throughout all nations vpon the earth shed their blood for the testimony of Christs name There may we see the stock of faithfull people that tread the steps of their Pastors There may wee see
a witles kinde of reasoning is this first to recken vp the Saints in Heauen and say these are ours Then to number vp the damned Iewes Gentiles Turkes Heretikes and affirme those are the enemies of our Church To rehearse those Countries that haue been conuerted to the faith of Christ and conclude by and by these are of our Religion would you take this man to bee well in his wits compassing Heauen Earth and Hell so childishly a DVR Jf heere he any thing ridiculous then may you laugh at the Prophet vvho aâ— speedily runnes ouer the whole world And S. Paul tooke a testimony for a truth out of the beathen Poet Act. 17 2â— WHIT. pag. 856. Who knoweth not that God may be knowne by his creatures religion illustrated by nature vncorrupt but what nature I pray you hath taught CamptaÌ„ thus to iudge of the heauenly spirits and the damned soules and of the whole frâ—me of things can he learne by nature that those who haue professed the Popish religion doe novv enioy heauenly happines and that they who dislike it are tormented in hell These weapons of Campian were those that impure Symmachus opposed Christian religion withall Ambros Epist 30. Prudent contra Symmachum ridiculouslie and impertinently taking vnto himselfe what he liketh and reiecting the rest A worthie cauil fit for none but Iesuites which when a man hath by one negatiue discharged can neuer be proued by their peruerse sect and whole societie These dreames of yours Campian are vnworthie any answere one word of denial confutes this whole Chapter I will not bestow much time in answering this Sophisme so vnhansomely framed and patched together it shall suffice lightly to passe and only touch euery thing in a word First therefore you alledge the prophecie of Esay of a straight way wherein the simple should not erre b DVR You shew your ignorance in the Prophet for he speaketh not of the way to the Church but of the Church it selfe vvhich is the high way to heauen WHIT. pag. 857. Howsoeuer you interpret the way it maketh neither much for me nor for you The question is who shall find out that way and walke in it for it is not discerned of all because it is a plaine way nor held of all because it is a right way but he that hath learned Christ is he that walketh in this way without any error though he be but sillie and vnskilfull DVR Jf this be so then can it not be the true Church which conteineth sinners and men polluted And the Fathers by this place exclude only those who are not clensed by Baptisme WHIT. pag. 858. The Prophet speaketh of the Church of the elect and Saints because he saith vers 8. The polluted shall not passe by it and vers 20. the redeemed only whose ioy shall be euerlasting but the visible Church conteineth those which are impure whom Christ hath not redeemed and whose ioy shall perish As for Baptisme it purgeth none but such as lay hold of the promise of free iustification by Christ as Tit. 3.5 Heere the Prophet describes the entrance into Christs Church viz. that it should be ready plaine and easie But this way brings vs not to your Church c for of this way the Prophet reports that no prophane man no Lion or cruell beast shall be found in it whereas all your waies are compassed with polluted men raging beasts Lions Beares Leopards Dragons Diuels and in conclusion they leade miserably bewitched men vnto wofull destruction As for vs we treade that way which Christ and his Apostles haue traced out before vs wee auoyde your erroneous and strange waies because it is the way of sinners that you sâ—â—â—d in which way whosoeuer treadâ— Psal 1.1 Rom. 3.17 the way of peâ—ce they haue not knowne First vnderstand the path well your selues and then direct the way vnto vs. Let vs say you asâ—â—â—d into heauen I feare you Iesuites haue no place there Heauen is for Christians not Iesuites But suppose your selues for the time to be in heauen what followeth Let vs behold say you the Martyrs 33. Bishops of Rome slaine together the Vniuersall Pastors companies of the faithfull all holie Saints Well suruey Campian heauen it selfe and all the heauenly host looke well in all the parts and coasts of it whiles you list you shall not find there vpon my word one Iesuit not one Papist for none shall stand in Mount Zion with the Lamb Apoc. 14.1 that haue receiued the marke of the beast or belong vnto Antichrist But in heauen are 33. Bishops of Rome and many more I doubt not but of all these name me one if you can of your religion whom you may iustly claime as yours Those were holy and faithfull Bishops which shed their bloud for the name of Christ But your Popes for these many hundred yeares what else haue they done but persecuted Christ and murthered his true seruants If those 33. Bishops be in heauen as doubtlesse they are how many late Popes could I recken vp which possibly cannot be where they are in all things they are so vnlike them You pick out a few let vs see who these are Ignatius say you was ours why I pray you He thought no man equall to the Bishop in causes ecclesiasticall not the King himselfe and left in writing certaine Apostolike traditions neither say we that any man is to be compared with the Bishop in such things as belong to his office d DVR If these be so proper to Bishops that they cannot belong to Kings then you being iudge the Queene cannot be the head of the English Church WHIT. pag. 160. We acknowledge no other head of the Church saue Christ And Prince though they may not do any of thâ—se 〈◊〉 yet they rule ouerthem who doe and ought to command them diligently to execute their offices which if they neglect they ought to reproue compell and punish them as we reade the good Kings of the Church Iewish and Christian haue euer done and the reason hath no force Princes haue no authoritie to preach therefore they haue no authority to punish those who teach false doctrine to their people He only ought to ouersee holy things viz. instruction of the people administration of the Sacraments vse of the keyes of the kingdome of heauen These are matters of great weight and exceed the kingly authority yet are Kings aboue Bishops in wealth honor gouernment maiestie and they may lawfully both admonish them of their dutie and restraine them when they offend If Bishops herein would equall themselues with Kings it were too intolerable As for the Apostles traditions which Ignatius hath left in writing we receiue them so farre as they agree with the Apostolicall Scripture if they dissent from those we refuse them The Epistles of Ignatius were most of them counterfet as euery man may see heere you rehearse many and still the vndersong is these are ours Telesphorus say