Linguistic DNA - Concept Modelling Demonstrator

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	apostle_n	contain_v	doctrine_n	2,322	5	6.1087	4	false

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A18078	A replye to an ansvvere made of M. Doctor VVhitgifte Against the admonition to the Parliament. By T.C.	Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603.	1573 (1573)	STC 4712; ESTC S120563	333,686	231

You oppose Amb. Aug. I could oppose Ignatius and Tertullian wherof the one saith it is nefas a detestable thing to fast vpon the Lordes day the other the it is to kil the Lord this is the inconuenience that cometh of such vnlearned kinde of reasoning S. Ambrose sayth so therfore it is true And although Amb. and Aug. being straungers and priuate men at Rome wold haue so done yet it foloweth not that if they had ben citizens ministers there y they wold haue don it if they had don so to yet it foloweth not but they would haue spoken against the appoyntment of dayes nomothesian of fasting wherof Eusebius saith that Montanus was the first author I speake of that which they ought to haue done for otherwise I know they both thought corruptly of fasting wheÌ„ as the one sayth it was remedy or reward to fast other dayes but in Lent not to fast was sinne and the other asketh what saluation we can obtaine if we blot not our sinnes by fasting seing that the scripture sayth the fasting almes doth deliuer from sin therfore calleth them new teachers that shut out the merite of fasting Which I therfore recite because you would seme by Aug. Ambrose iudgements to alow of the weekely and commanded fasts What you meane to cite this place ad Ianuarium 118. I can not tell you charge the authors of the admonition to be conspired with the papistes I will not charge you so but wil thinke better of you vntil the contrary do more appeare But I appeale to the iudgement of all men if this be not to bring in popery again to allow of s Aug. saying wherin he sayth that the celebrating of the day of the passion c. is either of some generall councel or of the Apostles commauÌ„ded decreed wherby a gate is opeÌ„ vnto the papists to bring in vnder the coloure of traditions all their beggery whatsoeuer For you plainly confirme that there is some thing necessary to be obserued which is not contained any wayes in the scripture For to keepe those holy dayes is not contained in the scripture neither can be concluded of any part therof and yet they are necessary to be kept if they be commaunded of the Apostles Therefore in your opinion some thing is necessary to be kept which is not contained in the scriptures nor can not be concluded of them And if you say that S. Aug. leaueth it in dout whether it were the Apostles tradition statute or a generall councels then you bring vs yet to a worse point that we can not be assured of the which is necessary for vs to knowe that is whether the Apostles did ordaine that these dayes should be kept as holy dayes or the couÌ„cels And that it is S. Augustins meaning to father such like things of the Apostles it maye appeare by that whych he wryteth saying There are many things whych the whole churche holdeth and therfore are well beleued to be commaunded of the Apostles although they be not founde wrytten If thys iudgement of s Augustine be a good iudgement and a sounde then there be some things commaunded of God which are not in the scriptures therfore there is no sufficient doctrine contained in the scriptures wherby we may be saued For al the commaundements of God of the apostles are nedeful for our saluation And marke I pray you whether your affections cary you before you sayd that the Lords day which was vsed for the day of rest in the Apostles time may be chauÌ„ged as the place and houre of prayer but the day of the passion resurrection c. you either thrust vpon vs as the decree of the apostles or at least put vpon vs a necessity of keping of them least haply in breaking of them we might breake the Apostles decree for you make it to lie betweene the councels and the apostles which of them decreed this And do you not perceiue how you stil reason against your self for if the church haue had so great regard to that which the apostles did in their times that they kept those things which are not wrytteÌ„ and therfore are doutfull whether euer they vsed them or no how much more should we hold our selues to these things whych are wrytten that they did and of the whych we are assured As touching the obseruation of these holy dayes I will refer the reader vnto an other place where occasion is geuen againe to speake of them As for that rule y he geueth when he sayth whatsoeuer is not c. and for the last of the three rules I receiue them with hys owne interpretation whych he hath afterward in 119. epist. ad Ianuarium which is that it be also profitable And as for those three rules whych you saye are worthye to be noted I can see nothing that they helpe your cause one whit for I knowe no man that euer denyed but that the churche may in suche things as are not specified and precisely determined make orders so they be grounded of those generall rules whych I haue before alledged out of S. Paule And as for the second of the three rules I can not at any hand allow it For when all christianitie was ouer runne wyth Poperie thyngs were vniuersally obserued whych to kepe were mere wickednes and thys strengtheneth the papistes vniuersalitie Concerning your glose if it be not repugnant to the scripture besides that it is not enough because it must be grounded by the scripture and that it is wicked to geue such authority to any decree of men that a man should not enquire of it or reason of it I haue shewed that he ment nothing les For affirming that suche thyngs are the Apostles commaundements hys meaning was that they should be wythout all exception receiued and absolutely How much better is it that we take heede to the words of the Apostle then either to S. Augustins or yours whych sayth that if he or an angel from heauen should preach any other gospell then that whych he had preached that they should hold hym accursed he sayth not any contrary or repugnant doctrine but any other gospell But tel me why passed you by that in Augustin which he * wryteth to Iunuarie that those thyngs whych are not contained in the scripture nor decreed of couÌ„celles nor confirmed by generall customes but are varied by the manners of regions and of men vpon occasion offered ought to be cutte of although they seeme not to be against faith because they pres wyth seruile burdens the religion whych Christ would haue free Thys sentence belike was to hotte for you you coulde not cary it The rest whose names you recite whych you saye you leaue of for breuitie sake I leaue to the iudgement of the Reader to consider wherfore they be left out seeing that Augustin in whom you put so great trust answereth so little to your expectation

red that there are now Apostles and Euangelistes and Prophetes You shall assuredly doe maruelles if you proue that as you say you will if any denye it I denye it proue you it And that you may haue some thing to doe more then peraduenture you thoughte of when you wrote these words I will shew you my reasons why I thinke there ought to be none nor can be none vnles they haue wonderfull and extraordinarie callings It must first be vnderstanded that the signification of thys worde Apostle when it is properly taken extendeth it selfe not only to all the ministers of God being sent of God but to the ambassadoure of any Prince or Noble man or that is sent of any publike authoritie and is vsed of the scripture by the trope of Synechdoche for the twelue that oure sauior Christ appoynted to go throughout all the world to preache the gospell vnto the whych number was added S. Paule and as some thinke Barnabas whych are seuered from all other ministers of the gospell by these notes First that they were immediately called of God as s. Paule to the Galathians proueth him selfe to be an apostle because he was not appoynted by men Then that they sawe Christe whych argument S. Paule vseth Am I not an Apostle haue I not seene Christe Thirdly that these had the fielde of the whole worlde to Till where as other are restrained more perticularly as to a certen ploughe lande wherein they shoulde occupye them selues Wherevppon it followeth that as we conclude against the Pope truely that he can be no successor of the Apostles not only because he neyther reacheth nor dothe as they did but because the Apostles haue no successors neither any can succeede into the office of an Apostle so maye we likewise conclude against those that would haue the Apostles nowe adayes that there can be none because there is none vnto whome all these three notes doe agree as that he is bothe sent of God immediately or that he hath seene Christ or that he is sent into all the world And althoughe some Ecclesiasticall wryters do call sometimes good ministers successors of the Apostles yet that is to be vnderstanded because they propound the same doctrine y they did not because they succeded into the same kinde of function whych they could not doe S. Paule doth vse this word Apostle sometimes in hys proper and natiue signification for hym that is publikely sent from any to other as when he speaketh of the brethren that were ioyned wyth Titus whych were sent by the churches wyth reliefe to the pore church in Ierusalem and Iewrie and where he calleth Epaphroditus an Apostle But that is wyth addition and not simply as in the first place he calleth the brethren the apostles of the Churches that is not the apostles of all Churches or sent to all churches but the apostles whych certaine churches sent with the reliefe to other certaine churches and Epaphroditus he calleth not an apostle simply but the apostle of the Philippians that is whych the Philippians sent wyth reliefe to Paule being in prison at Rome as it appeareth in the same Epistle And as for Andronicus and Iunius whych are by you recited belyke to proue that we may haue more apostles because it is sayd of S. Paule that they were famous and notable amongst the apostles it cannot be proued by any thing I see there whether they had any function Ecclesiasticall or no. For S. Paule calleth them hys kinneffolke and fellowe prisonners and dothe not say that they were his fellowe labourers and a man may be well notable and famous amongst the apostles and well knowne vnto them whych is no apostle And if the apostles would haue had this order of the apostles to continue in the church there is no doubt but that they would haue chosen one into Iames hys roume when he was slaine as they did when they supplied the place of Iudas by chusing Mathias and so euer as they had died the other would haue put other in their places So it appeareth that thys function of the apostles is ceased You aske farther that if a man should not preach before he haue a pastoral charge what they will answere vnto Phillip and Epaphroditus wherby your meaning is belike that although they be no pastors yet they may be euangelists whych goe about the countrey heere and there â–ª But this office is ceased in the church as the apostles is sauing that sometime the Lord doth raise vp some extraordinarily for the building vp of the churches whych are falne downe pulled vp by the foundations as I haue shewed somewhat before And that it is ceased it may appeare by these reasons First for because all those that the scripture calleth precisely Euangelists which are only Phillip and Timothe had their callings confirmed by miracle and so it is like that Titus and Syluanus and Apollos and if there were any other had their vocations after the same manner confirmed but there is no such miraculous confirmation nowe therfore there is no suche vocation For allbeit those that God hathe raised vp in those darke times and ouerthrowes of the church wherof meÌ„tion is made before as M. Luther c. had not their â—allings alwayes confirmed by direct and manifest miracles of hearing or raising vp from the deade yet the maruellous succes and blessing that the Lord gaue vnto their labors were sufficient seales vnto all men that althoughe they had no ordinarie calling nor by men yet they were sent of God That I speake nothing of the miraculous deliuerances that some of them had out of dangers by warning geuen of pearils by those whych were neuer seene before nor after and by such like wonderfull meanes as are to be seene in stories Nowe againe if there should be any Euangelist who should ordaine him you will say the Bishop But I say that cannot be that the greater shoulde be ordained of the les For the Euangeliste is a higher degree in the churche then is the byshop or pastor And if he be so whye hathe he not hys estimation heere in the Churche aboue the Byshop or Archbyshop eyther for the Archbyshop is but a Byshop or whye dothe not he ordaine Byshoppes as Timothe and Titus did whych were Euangelistes being one poynte of their office as * Eusebius declareth Againe if there be in euery churche a pastor as S. Paule commaundeth what should the Euangelists do for either that pastor doth his duetie and then the Euangelist is superfluous or if he do it not then he is no lawfull pastor and so ought he to be put out an other to be put in hys stead And where the pastor doing hys duety can not suffice there the scripture hath geuen him an ayde of the doctor which for because his office consisteth in teaching doctrine to thys ende y the pastor mighte not be driuen to spende so muche time in propounding the

so lightly which he shall perceiue to sit nearer him then he is or at the least someth to be aware of And to bring to passe that y quotations in the margent might appeare to the reader more absurde M. Doctor hath besides the aduantage which he taketh of the faultes of the Printer vsed two vnlawfull practisies especially Wherof the one is that where as the admonition doth quote the scripture not only to proue the matters which it handleth but sometimes also to note the place from whence the phrase of speache is taken M. Doctor doth go about to make hys reader beleue that those places which be alledged for profe of the phrase are quoted for proofe of the matter The other practise is that where the Admonition for the shortnes whych it promiseth and was necessary in that case could not apply the places M. Doctor presuming too muche of the ignorance of hys reader thought he might make him beleue that any thing else was meant by those places then that which they meant in deede and for which they were alledged And where you say the quotations are only to delude such c. I see you holde it no fault in your selfe which you condemne so precisely in others that is to iudge before the time to sit in the coÌ„science to affirme definitely of their thoughts contrary to their owne protestation But seeing you lift vp our imperfections so high and set them as it were vpon a stage for all men to be loked of to the discredite of the truth which we do mayntayne You shall not thinke muche if your pouertie be poynted vnto in those things wherin you would cary so great countenaunce of store For the argumentes them selues they shall be seene what they be in their places so shall also that be answered which M. Doctor bringeth heere for the Confutation being straightway after in sondry other places repeated in thys booke I will touche that which is not repeated that is that M. Doctor maketh it an indifferent thing for men women to receyue the supper of the Lord clothed or naked Thys sauoureth strongly of the secte of the Adamites S. Paul whych commendeth the preseruation of godlynes and peace vnto the cyuill magistrate doth also commende vnto hym the prouyding that honesty be kept and M. Doctor maketh it an indifferent thing to come eyther naked or clothed vnto the Lordes table verely there is small honesty in thys And if the heatheÌ„ which knew not god did accouÌ„t it a filthy thing for a stage player to come vpon the stage without a sloppe how much more filthy is it for a Christian to come naked vnto the Lordes table and the contrary thereof is necessarily collected of the scripture notwithstanding that M. Doctor sayeth otherwise They which haue heard M. Doctor read in the scholes can tell that he being there amongst learned men neuer vsed to reduce the contrary argumentes of the aduersaryes to the places of the fallacions and yet that was the fittest place for hym to haue shewed hys knowledge in because there they should haue bene best vnderstode now that he professeth hym selfe to be a doctor of the people which because they haue not learned these things can not vnderstande them he dasheth out his Logicke What may be probably gathered hereof I leaue to euery mans consideration thys is certen that circumstances of place and persons which he so often vrgeth are not well obserued of him when Logike speaketh in the church and is mute in the schooles when things are handled more learnedly amongst the people and more popularly amongst the learned It is truely sayde cakon esti to calon en ti me kairoutiche A good thing is euill when it cometh out of season But to obserue what Arte heere is shewed I would gladly know what place of the fall actions eyther an argument ab authoritate negatiue is or of negatiues by comparison Aristotle setting forth places whereunto all fallacions may be called maketh no mention of these and if these were fallacions and were such as he imagineth them they should be referred vnto the former place ab eo quod est secundum quid ad id quod est simpliciter for these reasons the scripture hath it not therefore it ought not to be or the minister was knowen by doctryne therefore by doctryne only and not by apparell If I say they be fallacions they be referred vnto that place and whether they be or no and also how corruptly and otherwise then is meant they be gathered it shall afterward appeare In the meane season in a small matter heere is a great fault not only to inuent new places but of one place to make three and may as well make a thousande And to the ende the pithe and waight of M. Doctors argumentes may be the better seene I will lykewise geue the reader a say of them noting the places of the fallacions whereunto they be referred Which I do agaynst my will and compelled for that maister Doctor to discredite the truthe would make hys reader beleeue that those which thinke not as he doth in these matters are not only vnlearned but contenurers of all good learning In deede there is no greate learning in these final things they are of that sort which although it be a great shame not to know yet it is no great commendation to haue knowledge of them In the 40. page he reasoneth thus The ministers must learne therfore they must learne Catechismes which is a fallaction of the consequent For although he that must learne a Cathechisme must learne yet it followeth not that whosoeuer must learne must by and by learne a Cathechisme In the. 55. page he reasoneth that for so much as the cyuill magistrate may appoynt some kinde of apparell therfore he may appoynt any and so the popishe apparell Which is ab eo quod est secundum quid ad id quod est simpliciter of which sort he hath dyuers others As women may baptise and preache because such a one and such a one dyd And the ministers execute cyuill gouernment because Elias and Samuell did In the. 69. page he sayth Cyprian speaking of the office of an archbyshop which is a manifest petition of the principle For it being that which should haue bene proued M. Doctor taketh it for graunted And in diuers places speaking of the archbyshop he goeth about to deceiue his reader with the fallation of the aequiuocation or diuers significatioÌ„ of the word For whatsoeuer he findeth sayd of archbyshop byshop in times past he bringeth to establishe our archbyshops and bishops when notwithstaÌ„ding those in times past were much different from oures and are not of that kynde as shall appeare afterwarde In the. 239. page he reasoneth that for so muche as those which weare the apparell do edifie therefore they edify by reason of the apparell which is to make that the cause which is not but only commeth wyth the

must be placed in the church and nothing must be tollerated in the church he hath but small iudgemeÌ„t that can not tel that certaine things may be tollerated and borne with for a time which if they were to be sette in and placed could not be done without the great fault of them that shuld place them Againe are these of lyke waight except it be commaunded in the worde of God and except it be expressed in the word of God Many things are both commaunded and forbidden of which there is no expresse mention in the word which are as necessarily to be followed or auoided as those wherof expresse meÌ„tion is made Therfore vnlesse your waightes be truer if I coulde let it you should waighe none of my wordes Hereupon you conclude that their arguments taken ab authoritate negatiue proue nothing When the question is of the authoritie of a man in deede it neither holdeth affirmatiuely nor negatiuely For as it is no good argument to say it is not true because Aristotle or Plato sayde it not so is it not to saye it is true because they sayde so The reason whereof is because the infirmitie of man can neither attaine to the perfection of any thing wherby he might speake all thinges that are to be spoken of it neyther yet bee free from erroure in those thinges which he speaketh or geueth out and therfore thys argument neyther affirmatiuely nor negatiuely compelleth the hearer But only induceth hym to some liking or misliking of that for which it is brought is rather for an oratour to perswade the simpler sort theÌ„ for a disputer to enforce him that is learned But for so muche as the Lord God determyning to set before our eyes a perfecte fourme of hys church is both able to doe it and hath done it a man may reason bothe wayes necessarily The Lorde hathe commaunded it shoulde be in hyâ— churche therefore it must And of the other side he hath not commaunded therefore it must not be And it is not harde to shewe that the Prophetes haue so reasoned negatiuely As when in the person of the Lord the Prophet sayth * wherof I haue not spoken and which neuer entred into my heart and as where he condemneth them * because they haue not asked counsell at the mouthe of the Lorde But you say that in matters of faythe and necessary to saluation it holdeth which thinges you oppose afterwardes and set agaynst matters of ceremonies orders discyplyne and gouernment as though matters of dysciplyne and kynde of gouernment were not matters necessary to saluation and of faythe The case which you put whether the byshop of Rome be head of the church is a matter that concerneth the gouernment and the kynde of gouernment of the church and the same is a matter that toucheth fayth and that standeth vpon our saluation Excommunication and other censures of the church which are forerunners vnto excommunication are matters of dysciplyne and the same are also of faythe and of saluation The sacramentes of the Lorde hys supper and of baptisme are ceremonies and are matters of faythe and necessary to saluation And therefore you which distinguishe betweene these and saye that the former that is matters of faythe and necessarye to saluation may not be tollerated in the church vnlesse they be expresly contayned in the worde of God or manyfestly gathered But that these later which are ceremonies order disciplyne gouernment in the church may not be receiued agaynst the word of God and consequently receiued if there be no word agaynst them although there be none for them you I say distinguishing or dyuiding after thys sorte do proue your selfe to be as euill a deuyder as you shewed your selfe before an expounder for thys is to breake in peeces and not to deuide And it is no small iniurie which you doe vnto the word of God to pinne it in so narow roume as that it should be able to direct vs but in the principall poyntes of our relygion or as though the substance of religion or some rude and vnfashioned matter of building of the church were vttered in them those things were left out that should pertayne to the fourme and fashion of it or as if there were in the scriptures onely to couer the churches nakednes and not also chaines and bracelettes and rings and other iewels to adorne hir and set hir out or that to conclude there were sufficient to quench hir thirst kil hir honger but not to minister vnto hir a more liberall and as it were a more delicious and daintie diet These things you seeme to say when you say that matter 's necessary to saluation and of fayth are contayned in the scripture especially when you appose these things to ceremonies order dysciplyne and gouernement And if you meane by matters of fayth and necessary to saluation those without which a man cannot be saued then the doctrine that teacheth there is no free will or prayer for the dead is not within your compasse For I doubt not but dyuers of the fathers of the Greke church which were great patrons of free wil at lest as their wordes pretende are saued holding the foundation of the fayth which is Christ The lyke might be sayd of a nomber of other as necessary doctrines wherein men being nusled haue notwithstanding bene saued Therefore seeing that the poynt of the question lyeth chiefely in this distinction it had bene good that you had spoken more certainely and properly of these things But to the ende it may appeare that this speach of youres doth something take vp shrinke the armes of the scripture which otherwise are so long large I saye that the word of God contayneth the direction of all things pertayning to the church yea of what soeuer things can fall into any part of mans life For so Salomon sayth in the second chapter of the Prouerbes My sonne if thou receiue my wordes and hyde my preceptes c. Then thou shalt vnderstande iustice and iudgement and equitie and euery good way S. Paul sayth that whether we eate or drynke or whatsoeuer we do we must do it to the glory of god But no man can gloryfy God in any thing but by obedience and there is no obedience but in respect of the commaundement and word of God therefore it followeth that the word of God directeth a man in all his actions And that which S. Paul sayd of meates and drinkes that they are sanctifyed vnto vs by the word of God the same is to be vnderstanded of all thinges else whatsoeuer we haue the vse of But the place of S. Paul is of all other most cleare where speaking of those things which are called indifferent in the ende he concludeth that whatsoeuer is not of fayth is sinne but fayth is not but in respecte of the word of God therfore whatsoeuer is not done by the word of God is sinne And if any will say

that S. Paul meaneth there a full plerophorian and perswasion that that which he doth is well done I graunt it But from whence can that spring but from fayth and how can we perswade and assure our selues that we do well but whereas we haue the word of God for our warrant so that the Apostle by a metonimie Subiecti pro adiuncto doth geue to vnderstaÌ„d from whence the assured persuasion doth spring Whereupon it falleth out the forasmuch as in all our actions both publyke priuate we ought to follow the direction of the word of God in matters of the church and which concerne all there may be nothing done but by the word of god Not that we say as you charge vs in these words that no ceremonie c. may be in the church except the same be expressed in the word of God but that in making orders and ceremonies of the church it is not lawfull to doe what men list but they are bound to follow the generall rules of the scripture that are geuen to be the squire whereby those should be squared out Which rules I will here set downe as those which I would haue as well al orders ceremonies of the church framed by as by the which I wil be content that all those orders ceremonies which are now in question whether they be good conuenient or no should be tried examined by And they are those rules which Paule gaue in such cases as are not particularly meÌ„tioned of in scripture The first that they offend not any especially the Church of God. The second is that which you cite also out of Paul that all be done in order and comclynes The thirde that all be done to edifying The last that they be done to the glory of God. So that you see that those things which you recken vp of the houre time day of prayer c. albeit they be not specified in the scripture yet they are not left to any to order at their pleasure or so that they be not agaynst the worde of God but euen by and according to the word of God they must be established and those alone to be taken which do agree best and nearest with these rules before recited And so it is brought to passe which you thinke a great absurdity that al things in the church should be appoynted according to the word of god Wherby it likewise appeareth that we deny not but certayne things are left to the order of the church because they are of the nature of those which are varyed by times places persons other circumstances so could not at once be set down established for euer yet so left to the order of the church as that it do nothing agaynst the rules aforsayde But how doth this follow that certaine things are left to the order of the church therfore to make a new ministerie by making an Archbishop to alter the ministerie the is appointed by making a bishop or pastor without a church or flock to make a deacon without appointing him his church wherof he is a deacon wher he might exercise his charge of prouiding for the pore to abrogate cleane both name office of the elder with other more how I say doth it follow the because the church hath power to order certaine things therfore it hath power to do so of these which God hath ordayned and established of the which there is no tyme nor place nor person nor any other circumstance which can cause any alteration or chaunge Which thing shall better appeare both in the discourse of the whole booke and especially there where you go about to shew certayne reasons why there should be other gouernmeÌ„t now then was in the tyme of the apostles But whyle you goe about to seme to say much rake vp a great nomber of thinges you haue made very euill mestin and you haue put in one thinges which are not paires nor matches Because I will not draw the reader willingly into more questions then are already put vppe I will not stand to dispute whether the Lordes day which we call Sonday being the day of the resurrection of our sauiour Christ and so the day wherein the worlde was renued as the Iewes sabboth was the day wherein the world was finished and being in all the churches in the Apostles times as it seemeth vsed for the day of the rest and seruing of God ought or may be changed or no. This one thing I may say that there was no great iudgement to make it as arbytrarie and chaungeable as the houre and the place of prayer But where was your iudgement when you wrote that the scripture hath appoynted no discipline nor correction for suche as shall contemne the common prayers and hearing the word of God VVhat churche discipline would you haue other then admonions reprehensions and if these will not profitte excommunication and are they not appoynted of our sauioure Christe There are also ciuill punishments and punishmentes of the body likewise appoynted by the word of God in diuers places in Exodus He that sacrificeth to other gods and not to the Lorde alone shall dye the death And in Deutcronomie Thou shalt burne out the euill out of the middest of thee that the rest may heare learne and not dare do the like The execution of thys law appeareth in the Chro. by king Aza who made a law that all those that did not seke the Lord shuld be kilde And thus you see the ciuill punishment of conteÌ„ners of the word prayers There are other for such as neglect the worde which are according to the quantitie of the fault so that whether you meane ciuil or ecclesiasticall correction the scripture hath defined of them both I omit that there be examples of pulpits in Nehemias which the common translation calleth Ezra of chaires in S. Mathew where by the chaire of Moses our sauioure Christ meaning the doctrine of Moses doth also declare the manner which they vsed in teaching Of sitting at the communion which the Euangelist noteth to haue bene done of our Sauioure Christ with his disciples which examples are not to be lightly chaunged and vppon many occasions But this I can not omitte that you make it an indifferent thing to preache the word of God in churches or in houses that is to say priuately or publikely For what better interpretation can I haue then of your owne wordes which say by and by after of Baptisme that it is at the order of the church to make it priuate or publike For if it be in the power of the church to order that Baptisme may be ministred at the house of euery priuate person it is also in her power to ordayne that the worde be preached also priuately And then where is that which Salomon sayth that wysdom cryeth openly in the streates and at the corners of the stretes where

many meete and where be the examples of the olde church which had besydes the temple at Ierusalem erected vppe synagogues in euery towne to heare the worde of God and mynister the cyrcumcysion what is become of the commaundement of our sauioure Christ whych * wylled his discyples that they should preache openly and vpon the house toppes that which they heard in the eare of hym and secreately and howe doe we obserue the example of our sauyour Christ who to delyuer hys doctryne from all suspytion of tumultes and other dysorders sayd that he preached openly in the temple and in the synagogues albeit the same were very daungerous vnto hym the example of the * Apostles that dyd the same For as for the tyme of persecution when the church dare not nor is not meete that it should shewe it selfe to the ennemy no not then is the word of God nor the sacraments priuately preached or ministred neyther yet ought to be For althoughe they be done in the house of priuate man yet because they are ought to be ministred in the presence of the congregation there is neyther priuate preaching nor priuate baptisme For like as where so euer the Queenes maiestie lyeth there is the Courte althoughe it be in a Gentleman hys house so wheresoeuer the churche meeteth that place is not to be holden priuate as touching the prayers preachings and sacraments that shal be there ministred So that I denye vnto you that the churche hathe power to ordaine at her pleasure whether preaching or ministring of sacramentes should be priuate or publicke when they ought not to be but where the church is and the church ought not to assemble if it be not letted by persecution but in open places And when it is driuen from them those places where it gathereth it selfe togither although they be otherwise priuate yet are they for the time that the churches doe there assemble and for respect of the worde and sacraments that are there ministred in the presence of the church publike places And so you see those whome you charge slaunderously wyth conuenticles are faine to glase vp the windowes that you open to secreate and priuate conuenticles The Answere from Nowe if either godly councels vnto I trust M. Caluins iudgement will weigh HEere are brought in Iustin Martyr Ireneus Tertullian Cyprian and councels as dumme persons in the stage only to make a shewe and so they go out of the stage without saying any thing And if they had had any thing to say in this cause for these matters in controuersye there is no doubt but M. Doctor would haue made them speake For when he placeth the greatest strength of hys cause in antiquitie he would not haue passed by Iustin Ireneus Tertullian Cyprian being so auncient and taken Augustin whych was a great time after them And if the godly councels coulde haue helped heere it is small wisedome to take Augustine and leaue them For I thinke he might haue learned that amongst the authorities of meÌ„ the credite of many is better then of one and that thys is a generall rule that as the iudgement of some notable personage is loked vnto in a matter of debate more then theirs of the common sorte so the iudgement of a councell where many learned men be gathered together caryeth more likelyhode of truthe wyth it then the iudgement of one man although it be but a prouinciall councell much more then if it be a generall and therfore you do your cause great iniurie if you could alledge them and do not Thys is once to be obserued of the reader throughout your whole boke that you haue well prouided that you would not be taken in the trip for misalledging the scriptures for that onles it be in one or two poynts we heare continually instead of Esay and Ieremy S. Paule and S. Peter and the rest of the Prophets and Apostles S. Augustin and S. Ambrose kai to en te phake myron Dionysius Areopagita Clement c. And therfore I can not tell wyth what face we can call the papistes from their antiquitie councels and fathers to the triall of the scriptures who in the controuersies whych rise amongst our selues flie so farre from them that it wanteth not much that they are not banished of your part from the deciding of all these controuersies And if thys be a sufficient proofe of things to say suche a Doctor sayde so suche a councell decreed so there is almost nothing so true but I can impugne nothing so false but I can make true And well assured I am that by their meanes the principall groundes of our faith may be shaken And therfore because you haue no proofe in the worde of God we comfort our selues assured that for so muche as the foundations of the Archbyshop and Lordship of Bishops and of other things which are in question be not in heauen that they wil fall and come to the ground from whence they were taken Nowe it is knowne they are from beneath and of the earthe and that they are of men and not of God The answearer goeth about to proue that they came yet out of good earthe and from good men whych if he had obtained yet he may well know that it is no good argument to proue that they are good For as the best earth bringeth forth weedes so do the best men bring forth lies and errors But let vs heare what is brought that if thys visarde and shewe of truthe be taken away all men may perceiue howe good occasion we haue to complaine and howe iust cause there is of reformation In the first place of S. Augustine there is nothing against any thing whych we hold for thys that the church may haue thyngs not expressed in the scripture is not againste that it oughte to haue nothing but that may be warranted by the scripture For they may be according to the scripture and by the scripture whych are not by plaine termes expressed in the scripture But against you it maketh muche ouerturneth all your building in this boke For if in those things whych are not expressed in the scripture that is to be obserued of the Church whych is the custome of the people of God and decree of oure forefathers then howe can these things be varyed according to time place persons whych you say should be when as that is to be retained which the people of God hath vsed the decrees of the forefathers haue ordained And theÌ„ also how can we do safelier then to folow the apostles customes and the churches in their time which we are sure are our for fathers the people of god Besides that how can we retaine the customes and constitutions of the papists in such things which were neither the people of God nor our forefathers I wil not enter now to discus whether it were wel done to fast in al places according to the custome of the place

Thys is certaine that breuitie whych you pretend was in small commendation with you whych make so often repetitions stuffe in diuers sentences of Doctors and wryters to proue things that no man denyeth translate whole leaues to so small purpose vpon so light occasions make so often digressions sometimes against the vnlernednes sometimes against the malice sometimes against the intemperancie of speach of the authors of the admonition and euery hand while pulling out the sworde vpon them and throughout the whole boke sporting your selfe wyth the quotations in the margent so that if all these where taken out of your boke as winde out of a bladder we should haue had it in a narow roume whych is thus swelled into such a volume and in stead of a boke of .ij. s. we should haue had a pamfiet of two pence And whereas you say that you haue not alleaged these learned fathers for the authors of the libell but for the wise discrete humble and learned to them also I leaue it to consider vpon that whych is alledged by me First howe lyke a diuine it is to seeke for rules in the Doctors to measure the making of ceremonies by whych you mighte haue had in the scriptures there at the riuers heere at the fountaine vncerten there whych heere are certen there in parte false which are heere altogither true then to howe little purpose they serue you and last of all howe they make against you An answer to the ende of the. 29. page beginning at the. 25. at But I trust M. Caluins iudgement VVHy should you trust that M. Caluins iudgement wil weigh wyth them if they be Anabaptists as you accuse them if they be Donatists if Catharists if conspired wyth the Papistes howe can you thinke that they will so easely rest in M. Caluins iudgement whych hated and confuted all Anabaptisme Donatisme Catharisme and Papisme But it is true whych the prouerbe sayth memorem c. he that will speake an vntruthe had neede haue a good memorye and thys is the force of the truthe in the conscience of man that although he suppres it and pretend the contrary yet at vnwares it stealeth out For what greater testimonye coulde you haue geuen of them that they hate all those heresies which you lay to their charge then to say that you trust M. Caluins iudgement wil weigh wyth them Now in dede that you be not deceiued we receiue M. Caluin and weigh of him as of the notablest instrumeÌ„t that the Lord hath stirred vp for the purging of his churches and of the restoring of the plaine and sincere interpretation of the scriptures whych hath bene since the Apostles times And yet we do not so read his works that we beleeue any thyng to be true because he sayeth it but so farre as we can esteme that that whych he sayth dothe agree wyth the canonicall scriptures But what gather you out of M. Caluin First that all necessary thyngs to saluation are contained in the scripture who denyeth it In the second collection where you would geue to vnderstande that ceremonies and externall discipline are not prescribed particularly by the worde of God and therfore left to the order of the church you must vnderstande that all externall discipline is not left to the order of the churche being particularly prescribed in the scriptures no more then all ceremonies are left to the order of the church as the sacraments of baptisme and the supper of the Lord wheras vpon the indefinite speaking of M. Caluin saying ceremonies and externall discipline wythout adding all or some you goe about subtelly to make men beleeue that M. Caluin had placed the whole external discipline in the power and arbitrement of the churche For if all externall discipline were arbitrarie and in the choise of the church Excommunication also whych is a part of it might be cast away which I thinke you will not say But if that M. Caluin were aliue to heare hys sentences racked and wrythen to establishe those thyngs whych he stroue so mightely to ouerthrow and to ouerthrow those things that he laboured so sore to establishe what might he say and the iniurie which is done to him is nothing les because he is deade Concerning all the rest of your collections I haue not lightly knowne a man which taketh so much paine with so small gaine and which soweth his sede in the sea wherof there wil neuer rise encrease For I know none that euer denied those things vnles peraduenture you would make the reader beleeue that al those be contentions which moue any controuersy of things which they iudge to be amis and theÌ„ it is answered before And now I answer further that they that moue to reformation of things are no more to be blamed as authors of contention then the Phisition which geueth a purgation is to be blamed for the rumbling and stirre in the belly and other disquietnes of the body which should not haue bene if the euil humors and naughty disposition of it had not caused or procured thys purgation Wheras you conclude that these contentions woulde be sone ended if M. Caluins wordes were noted heere we will ioyne with you and will not refuse the iudgement of M. Caluin in any matter that we haue in controuersy with you Which I speake not therfore because I would call the decision of controuersies to men and their words which pertaine only to God and to his worde but because I know hys iudgement in these things to be cleane against you and especially for that you would beare men in hand that M. Caluin is on your side and against vs And as for Peter Martyr and Bucer and Musculus and Bullinger Gualter and Hemingius and the rest of the late wryters by citing of whom you wold geue to vnderstand that they are against vs in these matters there is set downe in the latter end of this boke their seuerall iudgements of the most of these things whych are in controuersy whereby it may appeare that if they haue spoken one word against vs they haue spoken two for vs And wheras they haue wrytten as it is sayde and alleaged in their priuate letters to their freendes againste some of these causes it may appeare that they haue in their workes published to the whole world that they confirme the same causes So y if they wrote any such thyngs they shall be founde not so much to haue dissented from vs as from them selues and therefore we appeale from them selues vnto them selues and from their priuate notes and letters to their publike wrytings as more autenticall You labor still in the fire that is vnprofitably to bring M. Bucer hys Epistle to proue that the church may order things wherof there is no particular and expressed commaundement for there is none denieth it neither is thys saying that all things are to be done in the churche according to the rule of the word of God any thing repugnant vnto

muste remember that S. Luke coulde not learne to speake of them that came two or three hundreth yeares after him but he borrowed thys phrase of speache of those that were before him and therfore speaketh of elections as they did So that you see thys shift will not serue Let vs therfore see your third whych is that although the Churches consent was then required yet is it not nowe and that it is no general rule no more then say you that all things should be therfore common now because they were in the Apostles time The authors of the Admonition wyth their fauourers muste be counted Anabaptists no one word being shewed whych tendeth thervnto you must accuse them whych confirme that foundation whereof they build their communitie of all things whych is one of their cheefe heresies If I shoulde saye nowe that you are like to those that rowe in a boate whych although they loke backwards yet they thrust a nother way I should speake with more likelihode theÌ„ you haue done For althoughe you make a countenaunce and speake hotely against Anabaptistes yet in deede you strengthen their handes wyth reasons But I will not say so neither doe I thinke that you fauoure that secte but only the whirlewinde and tempest of your affection bent to maintaine this estate whereby you haue so great honoure and wealth driueth you vpon these rocks to wracke your selfe on and others For I pray you what communitie is spoken of either in the second thirde or fourth of the Actes whych ought not to be in the church as long as the world standeth was there any communitie but as touching the vse and so farre for the as the pore brethren had neede of and not to take euery man a like was it not in any man his power to sell his houses or landes or not to sell them When he had solde them was it not in euery man his libertie to keepe the money to hymselfe at his pleasure and all they that were of the Church did not sell their possessions but those whose heartes the Lord touched singularly wyth the compassion of the neede of others and whome God had blessed wyth aboundance that they had to serue them selues and helpe others and therefore it is reckened as a rare example that * Barnabas the Cyprian and Leuite did sel hys possessions and brought the price to the feete of the Apostles And as for Ananias Saphira they were not punished for because they brought not the price of their possessions to the Apostles but because they lyed saying that they had brought the whole when they had brought but parte And to be shorte is there any more done there then S. Paule prescribeth to the Corinthians and in them to all churches to the worldes end After he had exhorted to liberalitie towardes the pore churche in Ierusalem not sayth he that other should be releeued and you oppressed but vpon like condition at this time your aboundance supplieth their lacke that also their aboundance maye be for youre lacke that there might be equalitie as it is wrytten he that gathered much had nothing ouer and he that gathered little had not the les Surely it were better you were no Doctor in the Churche then that the Anabaptistes should haue suche holde to bring in their communitie as you geue them In summe the Apostolike communitie or the Churches in their time was not Anabaptisticall Vnto the place of the seconde Epistle to the Corinthians and. 8. chapter you aske what maketh that to the election of the ministers but why doe not you say heere as you did in the other place that the apostle meaneth nothing els but the putting on of the handes of them whych ordained for the same worde cheirotonetheis is heere vsed that was there and this place dothe manifestly and wythout all contradiction conuince your vaine signification that you make of it in the other place and the vntruthe saying that the scripture vseth thys woorde for a solemne manner of ordering ministers by putting on of handes For heere it is sayde that he that was ioyned wyth Paule was cheirotonetheis by the church and it is manifest that the imposition of hands was not by the church people but by the elders and ministers as it appeareth in s Paule to Timothe Now to come to that which you make so light of for say you how foloweth this the church chose Luke or Barnabas to be coÌ„panion of Paule his iourney Ergo the churches must chuse their ministers It followeth very well for if it were thoughtâ— meete that Saynte Paule shoulde not chuse hym selfe of hys owne authoritie a companion to helpe hym being an Apostle is there any archbyshoppe that shall dare take vppon him to make a minister of the gospell being so many degrees bothe in authoritie and in all giftes needefull to discerne and trye oute or take knowledge of a sufficient minister of the gospell inferioure to S. Paule And if S. Paule woulde haue the authoritye of the churche to ordaine the Minister that shoulde ayde hym in other places for the gathering of reliefe of the poore Churches howe muche more did he thincke it meete that the Churches shoulde chuse their owne Minister whych should gouerne them Which things may be also sayde of the election in the first of the Actes for there the Churche firste chose two whereof one shoulde be an Apostle whych shoulde not be Minister of that Church but should be sent into all the world So that alwayes the Apostles haue shunned to do any thing of their owne willes without the knowledge eyther of those churches where they instituted any gouernors or if it were for the behofe of those places where there were no churches gathered yet would they ordaine none but by the consent of some other churche whych was already established You will not deny but that in the Apostles time and S. Cyprians time in many places the consent of the people was required shewe any one place where it was not Dothe not S. Luke say that it was done churche by churche that is in euery churche And where you say it endured but to S. Cyprians time it shall appeare to all men that it endured in the churche a thousande yeare and more after hys time And it appeareth in that he vsed it not as a thing indifferent but necessary and argueth the necessitye of it of the place of the first of the Acts which is alleaged by the authors of the Admonition and so they are not their argumentes that you throwe vp so scornefully saying how followeth this and this what proueth it but Cyprians whome by their sides you thrust throughe and so vnreuerently handle But you say these examples are no generall rules Examples of all the Apostles in all churches and in all purer times vncontrolied and vnretracted eyther by any the primitiue and purer churches or by any rule of the scripture I thinke ought to stand If

oute any wythout good cause that then the Magistrates shoulde compell the churches to doe their duetye In deede the byshop of Rome gaue the election then into the Emperoure hys handes because of the lyghtnesse of the people as Platina maketh mention but that is not the matter for I do nothing else heere but shew that the elections of the ministers by the Church were vsed in the times of the Emperoures and by their consentes and seeing that Otho confessed it pertayned not vnto him it is to be doubted whether he tooke it at the Bishop his handes And if the Emperoures permitted the election of the byshop to that Citie where it made most for their suertie to haue one of their owne appoyntment as was Rome which with their byshoppes dyd often tymes put the good Emperoures to trouble it is to be thought that in other places both Cities townes they dyd not deny the elections of the ministers to the people Besides that certayne of those constitutions are not of Rome but of any citie whatsoeuer And these Emperoures were and lyued betweene 500. and odde yeares vntill the very poynt of a thousande yeares after Christ so that hyther to thys lyberty was not gone out of the Church albeit the Pope which brought in all tyranny and went about to take all libertie from the churches was now on horse backe had placed hym selfe in that Antichristian seate To the next section in the 45. THose that write the Centuries suspect thys Canon and doubt whether it be a bastarde or no considering the practise of the church But heere or euer you were aware you haue striken at your selfe For before you sayde that thys order of chusing the minister by voyces of the church was but in the Apostles tyme and duryng the time of persecution And the first time you can alledge thys libertie to be taken awaye was in the 334. yeare of our Lorde which was at the least 31. yeares after that Constantine the great began to raigne I say at the least because there be good authors that say that thys Councell of Laodicea was holden Anno. 338. after the death of Iouinian the Emperoure and so there is 35. yeares betweene the beginning of Constantines raigne and thys councel Now I thinke you will not say that the Church was vnder persecution in CoÌ„stantines tyme And therfore you see you are greatly deceiued in your accoumpt And if it be as lawfull for vs to vse maister Caluins authoritie which both by example and wrytings hath alwayes defended our cause as it is for you to wryng him and his wordes to things which he neuer meant and the contrary wherof he continually practised then thys authoritie of youres is dashed For maister Caluin sayth where as it is sayd in that councel that the election should not be permitted to the people it meaneth nothing else but that they should make no election without hauing some ministers or men of iudgement to direct them in their election and to gather their voyces and prouyde that nothing be done tumultuously euen as Paule and Barnabas were cheefe in the election of the churches And euen the same order woulde we haue kepte in elections continually for auoyding of confusion for as we would haue the libertie of the Church preserued which Christ hath bought so dearely from all tyranny so do we agayne condemne and vtterly abhorre all barbarous confusion and disorder But if councelles be of so great authoritie to decide thys controuersy then the most famous councell of Nice will strike a great stroke with you which in an Epistle that it wryteth vnto the Church of Egipt as Theodoret maketh mention speaketh thus It is meete that you should haue power both to chuse any man and to geue their names which are worthy to be amongst the clergye and to doe all things absolutely according to the law and decrees of the churche And if it happen any to dye in the churche then those which were last taken are to be promoted to the honor of him that is dead with thys condition if they be worthy and the people chuse them and the bishop of the citie of Alexandria together geuing his consent and appoynting them An other of the famousest councelles called the councell of Constantinople which was gathered vnder Theodosius the great as it is witnessed by the * Tripartite storie in an Epistle which it wrote to Damasus the pope and Ambrose and others sayth thus We haue ordayned Nectarius the byshoppe of Constantinople with the whole consent of the counsell in the sight of the Emperour Theodosius beloued of God the whole Citie together decreeing the same Likewise he sayth that Flauian was appoynted by that synode byshop of Antioche the whole people appoynting him Likewise in the councell of Carthage where Augustine was holden about anno domini 400. in the first canon of the councell it is sayde when hee hath bene examyned in all these and founde fully instructed then let hym be ordayned Byshop by the common consent of the clarkes and the lay people and the Byshoppes of the prouince and especially eyther by the authoritie or presence of the metropolitane And in the Toletane councell as it appeareth in the 51. distinction it was thus ordayned Let not hym be counted a priest of the Churche for so they speake whome neyther the clergye nor people of that citie where he is a priest doth chuse nor the consent of the metropolitane other priests in that prouince hath sought after Moreouer concilium Cabilonense which was holden anno domini 650. in the tenth Canon hath thys If any Bishop after the death of hys predecessor be chosen of any but of the byshops in the same prouince and of the cleargie citizens let an other be chosen and if it be otherwise let that ordination be accompted of none effect All which councelles proue manifestly that as the people in their elections had the ministers rounde about or synodes counceiles directing them so there was none came to be ouer the people but by their voyces or consentes To the next section in the 45. page Thys alteration c. IN deede if you put such darke coleures vpon the Apostles church as thys is it is no maruell if it ought not to be a patrone to vs of framing and fashioning our church after it But O Lord who can paciently heare thys horrible disorder ascribed to the Apostles church which heere you attribute vnto it that euery one hand ouer head preached baptised and expounded the Scriptures VVhat a window nay what a gate is opened heere to Anabaptistes to confirme their fantasticall opynion wherin they holde that euery man whome the spirite moueth may come euen from the ploughe taile to the pulpit to preache the worde of god If you say it is Ambrose saying and not youres I answere vnlesse you allow it why bring you it and that to proue the difference betwene the Apostles times and these

For if it be false as it is most false then there is no difference heere betwene the Apostles times and oures Doth not the whole course of the scriptures declare and hath it not bene proued that there was none that tooke vppon hym the ministerie in the churche but by lawfull calling what is thys but to cast dust and dirte of the fairest and beautifullest image that euer was to make a smokie disfigured euill proportioned image to seeme beautifull to ouerthrow the Apostles buildings of golde and siluer and precious stones to make a cottage of wode straw and stubble to haue some estymation which could haue none the other standing For in effecte so you doe when to vpholde a corrupte vse that came in by the tyrannie of the pope you goe about to discredite the orders and institutions which were vsed in the Apostles times and that with such manyfest vntruthes To the next section in the. 45. page Musculus also c. THe place is too common which you assigne you had I am sure the booke before you you might haue tolde where the place was and in what title But that place of Musculus in the title of the magistrate is answered by hym selfe in the same booke where he entreateth of the election of the ministers For going about as it seemeth to satisfie some of their ministers which were brought in doubt of their calling because they were not chosen by their churches speaking of the vse of the church in chusing their minister he sayth thus First it must be playnly coÌ„fessed that the ministers were in times past chosen by consent of the people and ordayned and confirmed of the semores Secondarily that that forme of election was Apostolicall and lawfull Thirdly that it was conformable to the libertie of the churche and that thrusting the pastor vpon the church not being chosen of it doth agree to a church that is not free but subiect to bondage Fourthly that thys fourme of choise by the church maketh much bothe to that that the minister may gouerne hys flocke with a good conscience as also that the people may yeelde them selues to be eastyer ruled then when one commeth agaynst their willes vnto them And to conclude all these he sayeth that they are altogether certayne and such as can not be denyed After he sayth that the corrupt estate of the churche and religion driueth to alter this order and to call the election to certayne learned men which shoulde after be confirmed of the Prince And that it may yet more clearely appeare that hys iudgement is nothing lesse then to confirme thys election he setteth downe their election in Bernland which he approueth and laboureth to make good as one which although it doth not fully agree with the election of the prymitine churche yet commeth very neare vnto it As that not one man but all the ministers in the citie of Berne doe chuse a pastor when there is any place voyde Afterward he is sent to the Senate from the which if he be doubted of he is sent agayne to the ministers to be examined and then if they fynde him meete he is confirmed of the Senate which standeth of some number of the people and by the most part of their voyces By these things it appeareth that this election of the minister by the people is lawfull and Apostolike and confessed also by him that those that are otherwise bring with them subiection vnto the church and seruitude and cary a note and marke of corruption of religion Last of all that he goeth about to defende the election vsed in the churches where he was minister by this that it approched vnto the election in the primitiue Churche Nowe what cause there may bee that we should bring the church into bondage or take away that order wherby both the mynister may be better assured of hys calling and the people may the willinglyer submit them selues vnto their pastoures and gouernoures or what cause to depart from the Apostolike forme of the choise of the pastor being lawfull I confesse I know not and would be glad to learne To assigne the cause hereof vnto the christian magistrate to say that these things can not be had vnder hym as you vnder maister Muscuius name doe affirme is to doe great iniurie vnto the office of the magistrate which abridgeth not the liberty of the churche but defendeth it dimmisheth not the pastor his assurance of his calling but rather encreaseth it by establishing the ordinary callings only which in the time of persecution sometimes are not so ordinary withdraweth not the obedieÌ„ce of the people from the pastor but vrgeth it where it is not constrayneth it wher it is not voluÌ„tary And seeing that also Musculus sayth that these forced elections are remedies for corruption of relygion and disordered states what greater dishonoure can there be done vnto the holye institution of God in the ciuile gouernoure then to say that these forced elections without the consent of the people must be where there is a christian Magistrate as thoughe there coulde be no pure religion vnder him when as in deede it may be easely vnder him pure which can hardly and with great daunger be pure without him And when as it is sayd that the churches consent should be had in the election of the minister we doe not denye the confirmation of the elections vnto the godly ciuill magistrate and the disanulling of them if the church in chusing and the ministers in directing shall take any vnfitte man so that yet he doe not take away the libertie from the church of chusing a more conuenient man. So that you see that by Musculus your witnesse reasons this enforced election without the consent of the people is but corrupt and so ought not to be in the churche And that although it hath bene borne withall yet it must be spoken agaynst and the lawfull forme of election laboured for of all those that loue the truth and the sinceritie therof To the next section in the. 46. page NOw you would proue that thys election of ministers by one man was in the Apostles time But you haue forgotten your selfe which sayde a little before that this election by the church was not only in the Apostles times but also in the tyme of Cyprian now you say otherwise And if the election of the ministery by the church agree so wel with the time of persecution and when there is no christian Magistrate how commeth it to passe that in those dayes when persecution was so hotte and there were no such Magistrates that S. Paule would haue the election by one man and not by the church Besydes that if this be S. Paule hys commaundement that the byshop should only chuse the minister why doe you make it an indifferent thing and a thing in the power of the church to be varyed by times for this is a flarte commaundement Thus you see you throwe downe with one

wemen shoulde haue their voyces whiche is vnseemely all men vnderstand that where the election is most freest and most generall yet only they haue to doe which are heades of families and that thys is but a meere cauill to bring the truth in hatred which is vnworthy to be answered requireth rather a Censor then a Disputer to suppresse it To the. 47. and. 48. pages THe reason is of greater force then you woulde seeme to make it for as the twelueth place was to Mathias so is a certayne churche vnto a pastor or mynister and as the Apostles ordayned none vnto that place before it was voyde so ought not the Byshoppe ordayne anye vntill there be a churche voyde and destitute of a pastor And as the Apostles ordayned not any Apostle further then they had testimonie of the worde of God as it appeareth that S. Peter proceedeth by that rule to the election so ought no byshop ordayne anye to anye function which is not in the scripture appoynted but there are by the worde of God at thys time no ordinarie ministeries ecclesiasticall which be not locall and tyed to one congregation therefore thys sending abrode of ministers which haue no places is vnlawfull And that it may the better appeare that those functions doe only remayne which are appoynted to one certayne place and that the reader may haue the clearer and playner vnderstanding of all this matter all the whole ecclesiasticall function may be well deuided first into extraordinarie or those that endured for a time and into ordinarie which are perpetuall Of the first sorte are the Apostles and Euangelistes which the Lord vsed for a tyme as it were for cheefe masons and principall builders of his church as well to lay the foundations of churches where none were as also to aduaunce them to such forwardnesse and heighte vntill there mighte be gotten for the finishing of the building and house of the Church fitte pastors elders and deacons And that being done they went from those places into others which thing may be perceiued by the continuall storie of the Actes of the Apostles and by diuers sentences which are found in the Epistles of S. Paule And therefore also when the churches haue beene by antichrist euen rased from the foundations God hathe stirred vp Euangelistes euen immediatly by this spirite without any calling of men to restore hys churches agayne of whiche sorte was Maister Wickliffe in our Countrie Maister Hus and Ierome of Prage in Bohemia Luther and â™‰ winglius in Germanie c. And after thys sorte God maye at hys good pleasure worke when hee purposeth to set in hys gospell in anye nation where the whole face of the earth is couered wyth the darckenesse of ignoraunce and wante of the knowledge of God. Of this sort of extraordinary functions are the Prophetes also which besides a singular dexteritie and readines of expounding the scriptures had also the gift of telling things to come which because it is not now ordinarily I thincke there is none wildeny but it is an extraordinary calling For the other two of the Apostles and Euangelistes it shall appeare more at large hereafter by occasion geuen by maister Doctor that they are but for a tune The ordinary continual functions of the church are also deuided into two partes for eyther they are they that gouerne or take charge of the whole church as are those which are called elders or they which take charge of one part of the Churche which is the poore of euery church as are those which are called deacons Those agayne that are presbyteri which we terme elders of the church and haue to do with the whole church are eyther those which teache and preach the word of God and gouerne so or else which gouerne only and do not teach nor preach Of the first kinde are pastors doctore Of the second are those which are called by the coÌ„mon name of elders or auncients Of all this ordinary function I shall haue occasion to speake and of euery one shall appeare that which I haue sayd before that they are no vncertaine and vndefunte ministeries but such as are limited vnto a certaine churche and congregation And first of all for the pastor or byshoppe whych is heere mentioned whych name so euer we consider of them they do forthwith as sone as they are once either spoken or thought of imply and infer a certen and definite charge being as the Logicians terme them actuall relatiues For what shepheard can there be vnles he haue a flocke and howe can he be a watchman vnles he haue some citie to loke vnto Or how can a man be a master onles he haue a seruaunt Or a father vnles he haue a childe Nowe if you will say that they haue a charge and they haue flockes and cities to attende and watche vppon for a wholo shire or prouince or realme are their flockes and their cities and their charges First of all in your reading ministers that is vntrue for they goe not to reade in all churches but tary vntill they be hired in one And therfore when the Bishop hath laide hys hand of them they are no more ministers then before hys hund came vpon them because they haue no charges and therfore the patrone or person that hireth them to read and setteth them a worke are their byshops and make them ministers and not the Bishop of the diocese Secondarily for those that preache to haue a whole diocese or prouince or realme to be their flocke or citie to attend vpon is contrary to the pollicy or good husbandrye of all those that woulde eyther haue their citie safe or their flockes sound For who are they whych would appoynt one for the watch of a thousand townes or cities when as all they whych loue their safetye woulde rather haue for euery citye many watchmen then for many cities one or what is he that is so watchfull and circumspect whose diligence and watchfulnes one citye assaulted wyth ennemies will not wholely occupy and take vp or what is he whose sight is so sharpe that he can see from one ende of the diocese or prouince or realme to the other ende thereof or what is he that will commit the keeping of .xx. M. sheepe to one man that loketh for any good or encrease of them howe shall all these heare hys whistle howe shall all knowe his voyce when they can not heare it how shall they acknowledge hym when they can not knowe hym howe shall they folowe him when they can not see him goe before howe shall he heale their diseases when he can not possibly know them But some man wil say that these are humaine reasons and likelyhodes whych maye be ouerthrowne wyth other similitudes These notwithstanding are Analogies drawne from the nature of those things whych the ministers are likened vnto and are of the moste parte vsed of the holy Ghoste hym selfe expresly But that there be no

we shall hold out of the church the vnwrytten verities of the papists for my part if it be true that you say I can not tell what to answer vnto them For our answere is to theÌ„ the apostles haue left a perfect rule of ordering the church wrytten and therfore we reiect their traditions if for no other cause yet because they are superfluous and more then neede Now this degree of archbishop being not only not mentioned in the scriptures but also manifestly oppugned it is too bold and hardy a speache that I say no more to fetch the petegree of the archbyshop from the apostles times and from the apostles them selues But all thys time M. Doctor hath forgotten hys question whych was to proue an archbyshop wheras all these testimonies whych he alledgeth make meÌ„tion only of a bishop and therfore thys may rather confirme the state of the byshop in this realme theÌ„ the archbyshop But in the answere vnto them it shall appeare that as there is not in these places so much as the name of an archbyshop mentioned so except only the name of a bishop there shal be found very little agreemeÌ„t betwene the bishops in those dayes and those whych are called byshops in our time with vs. And consequently although M. doctor thought wyth one whiting boxe to haue whited two wals by establishing our archbyshop and byshop by the same testimonies of the fathers yet it shal be plaine that in going about to defend both he left both vndefended Let vs therfore come first to examine Ieroms reasons why one must be ouer the rest for in the testimony of men that is only to be regarded whych is spoken eyther wyth some authority of the scripture or wyth some reason grounded of the scripture otherwise if he speake wythout eyther scripture or reason he is as easely reiected as alledged One sayth he being chosen to be ouer the rest bringeth remedy vnto schismes how so least euery man sayeth he drawing to him selfe to breake the church in peeces But I would aske if the church be not in as great danger when all is done at the pleasure and lust of one man and when one caryeth all into error as when one pulleth one peece wyth him another an other peece and the third hys partalso wyth him And it is harder to draw many into an error then one or that many should be caryed away by their affections then one whych is euident in water whych if it be but a little it is quickly troubled and corrupted but being much it is not so easely But by thys ecclesiasticall Monarchie all things are kept in peace Nay rather it hath bene the cause of discord and well spring of most horrible schisme as it is to be seene in the very decretals them selues And admit it were so yet the peace whych is wythout truth is more execrable theÌ„ a thousand contentions For as by striking of two flintes togither there commeth out fire so it may be that sometimes by contention the truth whych is hidden in a darke peace may come to light whych by a peace in naughtines and wickednes being as it were buryed vnder the ground doth not appeare If therfore superiority domination of one aboue the rest haue such force to keepe men from schismes when they be in the truth it hath as great force to kepe them togither in error and so besides that one is easier to be corrupted then many thys power of one bringeth as great incommodity in keping them in error if they fall into it as in the truth if they are in it Moreouer if it be necessary for the keping of vnity in the church of England that one archbyshop should be primate ouer all why is it not as meete that for the keping of the whole vniuersall church there should be one archbyshop or byshop ouer all and the like necessity of the byshop ouer all christendome as of the byshop of all England vnles peraduenture it be more necessary that there should be one byshop ouer the vniuersall church then ouer the church of England for as much as it is more necessary that peace should be kept and schismes be auoyded in the vniuersali church then in the particulare church of England If you say that the archbyshop of England hath hys authority graunted of the Prince the Pope of Rome will say that Constantine or Phocas whych was Emperor of all christendome did graunt him hys authority ouer all churches But you will say that it is a lie but the Pope will set as good a face and make as great a shew therin as you do in diuers poynts here But admit it to be a lie as in dede it is touching Constantine yet I say further that it may come to passe it hath ben that there may be one Christian Cesar ouer all the realmes whych haue churches What if he then will geue that authority to one ouer all that one king graunteth in hys land may any man accept and take at hys hand such authority and if it be not lawful for him to take that authority tel me what fault you can finde in him whych may not be found in them It will be sayd that no one is able to do the office of a byshop vnto all the whole church neither is there any one able to do the office of a byshop to the whole church of England For when those which haue ben most excellent in knowledge and wisedome and most ready and quicke in doing and dispatching matters being alwayes present haue found enough to do to rule and gouerne one seuerall congregation what is he whych absent is able to discharge hys duety toward so many thousand churches And if you take exception that although they be absent yet they may do by vnder ministers as by Archdeacons Chauncellors Officials Commissaries and such other kinde of people what doe you else say then the Pope whych sayeth that by hys Cardinalles and archbyshoppes and Legates and other suche like he doeth all things For wyth their hands he ruleth all and by their feete he is present euerye where and wyth their eyes he seeth what is done in all places Let them take heede therfore least if they haue a common defence wyth the Pope that they be not also ioyned nearer wyth hym in the cause then peraduenture they be aware of Truely it is against my will that I am constrained to make suche comparisons not that I thinke there is so great diuersity betweene the Popedome and the archbyshoppricke but because there being greate resemblance betweene them I meane hauing regarde to the bare functions wythout respecting the doctrine good or badde whych they vpholde that I say there being great resemblance betweene them there is yet as I am persuaded great difference betweene the parsons that execute them The whych good opinion conceyued of them I we moste humbly beseeche them by the glory of God by the libertye of

chuse an other conceyueth the prayer wherby the helpe of God in that election and his direction is begged and no doubt executed the residue of the things which pertayned vnto the whole action In the seconde of the actes all the Apostles are accused of drunkennesse Peter answeareth for theÌ„ all wypeth away the infamy they were charged with But you will say where are the voyces of the rest which did chuse Peter vnto thys First you must know that the scripture setteth not downe euery circumstaÌ„ce then surely you do Peter great iniury that aske whether he were chosen vnto it For is it to bee thought that Peter would thrust in hym selfe to this office or dignitie without the consent and allowance of hys fellowes and preuent hys fellowes of thys preheminence vndoubtedly if it hadde not beene done arrogantly yet it must needes haue a great shew of arrogancye if hee hadde done thys without the consent of hys fellowes And heere you shall heare what the Scholiast sayth which gathereth the iudgement of Greke diuines hora speaking of Peter panta meta koines auton gnomes poiounta Behold how he doth all with their common consent And if any man hereupon will say that Peter exercised domination ouer the rest or gate any archapostleship beside that the whole story of the actes of the apostles and his whole course of life doth refute that the same Scholiast which I made mention of in the same place sayth he did nothing archikos imperiously nothing meta exousias with domynion or power Further I will admonishe him to take heede least if he striue so sore for the archbyshop he slide or euer he be aware into the tentes of the papistes which vse these places to proue that Peter had authoritie and rule ouer the rest of the apostles And that it may bee vnderstanded that thys moderate rule voyde of all pompe and outward shew was not perpetuall nor alwayes tyed vnto one man which were the last poyntes of the cautions I put before turne vnto the 15. of the Actes where is shewed how with the rest of the church the apostles and amongst them Peter being assembled to decide a great controuersie Iames the Apostle and not Peter moderated and gouerned the whole action when as after other had sayd their iudgementes and namely Paule and Barnabas Peter he in the ende in the name of all pronounced the sentence and that whereof the rest agreed and had disputed vnto and the residue rested in that iudgement the which also may likewyse appeare in the 21. of the Actes This is hee which is called the byshop in euery church thys is he also whome Iustin wherof mention is made afterwardes calleth proestos And finally thys is that great archbishoppricke and great bishoppricke that M. Doctor so often stumbleth on This order and preheminence the Apostles time and those that were neare them kept and the nearer they came to the apostles times the nearer they kept them to this order and the farther of they were from those times vntill the discouering of the sonne of perdition the further of were they from thys moderation and nearer to that tyranny and ambitious power which oppressed and ouerlayde the churche of God. And therefore maister Caluin doth warely say that one amongst the apostles indefinitely not any one singular person as Peter had the moderation and rule of the other and further shadoweth out what rule that was by the example of the consul of Rome whose authoritie was to gather the senate together to tell of the matters which were to be handled to gather the voyces to pronounce the sentence And although the Antichrist of Rome had peruerted all good order and taken all libertie of the church into hys the Cardinalles Archbishops and Byshoppes handes yet there are some colde and lyght footinges of it in our synodes which are holden with the parliament where amongst all the mynisters which are assembled out of all the whole realme by the more part of voyces one to chosen which should goe before the rest propounde the causes gather the voyces and bee as it were the mouth of the whole company whome they terme the prolocutor Suche great force hath the truthe that in the vtter ruines of Popery it could neuer be so pulled vp by the rootes that a man coulde neuer know the place thereof no more or that it shoulde not leaue suche markes and printes behinde it whereby it myght afterwardes recouer it selfe and come agayne to the knowledge of men Now you see what authoritie we allow amongst the ministers both in their seuerall churches or in prouinciall sinodes or nationall or generall or what so euer other meetinges shall be aduised of for the profite and edifying of the church and withall you see that as we are farre from thys tyranny and excessiue power which now is in the church so we are by the grace of God as farre from confusion and disorder wherein you trauell so much to make vs to seeme giltie M. Doctor reasoneth agayne that Paule an Apostle and in the highest degree of ministerie was superior to Timothe and Titus Euangelistes and so in a lower degree of mynisterie therefore one mynister is superior to an other one byshop to an other byshop whych are all one office and one function As if I shuld say my Lord Mayor of London is aboue the sherifes therfore one sherife is superior to an other Again an other argumeÌ„t he hath of the same streÌ„gth Titus being an Euangelist was superior to al the pastors in Crete which was a degree vnder the Euangelists therfore one pastor must be superior vnto an other pastor And that he was superior he proueth because he had authority to ordaine pastors so that the print of the archbyshop is so deepely set in his head that hereof he can imagine nothing but that Titus shuld be archbishop of all Crete I haue shewed before how these words are to be taken of S. Paule and for so much as M. Doctor burdeneth vs wyth the authority of Caluin so often I wil send him to Caluins owne interpretation vpon this place wher he sheweth the Titus did not ordaine by his owne authority for s. Paul wold not graunt Titus leaue to do that whych he him self wold not and sheweth that to say that Titus should make the election of pastors by him selfe is to giue vnto hym a princely authority and to take away the election from the church and the iudgement of the insufficiency of the minister from the company of the pastors whych were sayeth he to prophane the whole gouernment of the church I maruell therfore what M. doctor meaneth to be so busy wyth M. Caluin and to seke confirmation of his archbyshop and byshop at him whych wold haue shaken at the naming of the one and trembled at the office of the other onles it be because he would faine haue hys plaister where he receiued hys wound but I dare assure him

of certen that haue bene killed thereby you mighte as well bryng in a prayer that men may not haue falles froÌ„ their horses may not fal into the hands of robbers may not fall into waters and a number such more sodaine deathes wherwith a greater number are taken away then by thundrings or lightnings and such like and so there should be neuer any end of begging these earthly coÌ„modityes whych is contrary to the forme of prayer appoynted by our sauioure Christe And wheras you alledge the petition of the Lords prayer deliuer vs from euill to proue this prayer against Thunder c. besides that all the commodities and discommodities of thys life are prayed for and prayed against in that petition whereby we desire oure daily breade it is very straunge to apply that to the thunder that is vnderstanded of the deuill as the article apo tou ponerou dothe declare And that it is a maruellous coÌ„clusion that for so much as we ought daily and ordinarily and publikely desire to be deliuered from the Deuill Ergo we oughte daily and ordinarily and publikely desire to be deliuered from thunder It is one thing to correct Magnificat and an other thing to shew the abuse of it And therfore I see no cause why you should vse this allusion betwene Magnificat significat vnles it be for that you purposing to set out all your learning in thys boke wold not so much as forget an old rotten prouerb whych trotted amongst the monkes in their cloisters of whome I may iustly say whych Tullie sayd in a nother thyng Nec quicquam ingenium potest monasterium that is the cloister coulde neuer bring forthe any witty thing for heere although there be Rythmus yet it is sine ratione As these are diuers things more then ought to be conueniently so wante there some things in the prayers There are prayers set forthe to be sayde in the common calamities and vniuersal scourges of the realme as plague famine c. and in dede so it ought to be by the word of God ioyned wyth a publike fast commauÌ„ded not only when we are in any calamity but also when any the churches round about vs or in any countrey receiue any generall plague or greeuous chastisement at the Lordes hand But as suche prayers are needefull whereby we beg release from our distresses so there ought to be as necessary prayers of thaÌ„ks geuing wheÌ„ we haue receiued those things at the Lords hand whych we asked in our prayers And thus much touching the matter of the prayers eyther not altogither sound or else too much or too little Concerning the fourme there is also to be misliked A great cause wherof is the folowing of the forme vsed in Popery against whych I haue before spoken For whilest that seruice was set in many poynts as a paterne of this it cometh to pas that in stead of suche prayers as the primitiue churches haue vsed those that be reformed now vse we haue diuers short cuts shreddings whych may be better called wishes then prayers And that no man thinke that thys is some idle fancie that it is no matter of weight what forme of prayer we vse so that the prayers be good it must be vnderstanded that as it is not sufficient to preach the same doctrine whych our sauior Christ hys apostles haue preached vnles the same forme of doctrine and of teaching be likewise kept so is it not enough that the matter of our prayer be such as is in the word of God vnles that the forme also be agreeable vnto the formes of prayers in the scripture Now we haue no such formes in the scripture as that we shuld pray in .ij. or .iij. lines and theÌ„ after hauing red a while some other thing come and pray as much more and so to the .xx. and .xxx. time wyth pauses betweene If a man shoulde come to a Prince and keepe suche order in making hys petitions vnto hym that hauing very many things to demaund after he had demaunded one thing he would stay a long time and then demaunde an other and so the thirde the prince myght well thinke that eyther he came to aske before he knew what he had nede of or that he had forgotten some pece of hys sute or that he were distracted in hys vnderstanding or some other such like cause of the disorder of his supplication And therfore how much more conuenient were it that according to the manner of the reformed churches first the minister wyth an huÌ„ble and general confession of faults shuld desire the assistance of the Lord for the frutefull handling and receiuing of the word of God and then after that we haue heard the Lord speake vnto vs in hys worde by hys minister the church should likewise speake vnto the Lord and present all those petitions and sutes at once bothe for the whole churche and for the Prince and all other estates whych shall be thought needefull And if any will say that there are short prayers found in the Actes it may be answeared that S. Luke doth not expres the whole prayers at large but only set downe the summes of them and their cheefe poyntes And further it may be answeared that alwayes those praiers were continued together and not cut off and shred into diuers small peeces An other fault is that all the people are appoynted in diuers places to saye after the minister wherby not only the time is vnprofitably wasted a confused voyce of the people one speaking after an other caused but an opinion bredde in their heads that those only be their prayers whych they say and pronounce with their owne mouthes whych causeth them to geue the les heede to the rest of the prayers whych they reherse not after the minister whych notwithstanding are as well their prayers as those whych they pronounce after the minister otherwise then the order whych is left vnto the church of God dothe beare For God hath ordained the minister to thys ende that as in publike meetings he only is the mouthe of the Lorde from hym to the people euen so he ought to be only the mouthe of the people from them vnto the Lorde and that all the people shoulde attende to that whych is sayde by the minister and in the ende bothe declare their consent to that whych is sayde and there hope that it shall so be and come to pas whych is prayed by the worde Amen as S. Paule declareth in the Epistle to the Corinthians And Iustine Martyr sheweth to haue bene the custome of the churches in hys time Although these blots in the Common prayer be such as may easely enough appeare vnto any whych is not wedded to a preiudicate opinion and that there is no great difficultye in thys matter yet I knowe that thys treatise of prayer will be subiect to many reprehensions and that there will not be wanting some probable coloures also wherby

amendement And that this was the custome of the churches it may appeare by the. 9. of those canons whych are fathered of the apostles wher it is decreed that all the faithfull that entred into the congregation and heard the scriptures red and dyd not tary out the prayers the holy Communion should be as those whych were causers of disorders in the church seperated from the church or as it is translated of an other depriued of the Communion Also in the councell of Braccara it was decreed that if any entring into the church of God heard the Scriptures and afterward of wantonnes or losenes wythdrewe hym selfe from the communion of the sacrament and so brake the rule of discipline in the reuerende sacraments should be put out of the church till such time as he had by good frutes declared hys repentaunce But heere also may rise an other doubt of the former wordes of Moses in the boke of Numbers for seing that he maketh thys exception if they be cleane it may be sayd that those that depart do not fele themselues mete to receiue and therfore depart the other .iij. or .iiij. or moe feele themselues meete and disposed for that purpose whervpon it may seeme that it is neither reason to compell those to come which feele not themselues meete nor to reiect them that feele that good disposition and preparation in themselues For answer whervnto we must vnderstand that the vncleannes whych Moyses speaketh of was such as men could not easely auoid and whervnto they might fall sometimes by necessary duety as by handling their dead whych they were by the rule of charitye bound to burye sometimes by touching at vnwares a deade body or by sitting in the place where some vncleane body had sitten or by touching such things whych the law iudged vncleane which thing cannot be alleaged in those that are now of the church For as many as be of it and wythall of suche discretion as are able to proue and examine themselues can haue no excuse at all if they may be at the church to withdraw themselues from the holy supper of the lord For if they will say that they be not meete it may be answered vnto them that it is their owne fault and further if they be not meete to receiue the holy sacrament of the supper they are not meete to heare the woord of God they are not meete to be partakers of the prayers of the church and if they be for one they are also for the other For with that boldnes and wyth that duetye or lawfulnes I speake of those whych are of the church and of discretion to examine themselues I say wyth what lawfulnes they may offer themselues to the prayers and to the hearing of the word of God they may also offer themselues vnto the Lordes supper And to whomsoeuer of theÌ„ the Lord wil communicate himselfe by preaching the word vnto the same he wil not refuse to communicate himselfe by receiuing of the sacrameÌ„ts For whosoeuer is of Gods housholde and familye he neede not be afraide to come to the Lords table nor dout but that the Lord will fede him there and whatsoeuer he be that is a membre of the body of Christ may be assured that he receiueth life froÌ„ Christ the head as well by the arteries condints of the supper of the Lord as by the preaching of the word of god So that it must needes folow that the not receiuing of those whych depart out of the church wheÌ„ there is any communion celebrated procedeth either of vaine and superstitious feare growing of grose ignorance of themselues and of the holy sacraments or else of an intollerable negligence or rather contempt of the whych neither the one nor the other shuld be either borne wyth or nourished either by permitting .iij. or .iiij. to communicate alone or els in letting them whych depart go so easely away with so great a fault whych ought to be seuerely punished And vpon thys either contempt or superstitious feare drawne from the papists Lenton preparation of 40. dayes eareshrift displing c. it commeth to pas that men receyuing the supper of the Lord but seldome when they fall sicke must haue the supper ministred vnto them in their houses whych otherwise being once euery weke receiued before should not brede any such vnquietnes in theÌ„ when they can not come to receiue it Although as I haue before shewed if they had neuer receiued it before yet that priuate receiuing were not at any hand to be suffered And thus hauing declared what I thinke to be faulty in the communion boke in thys poynt and the reasons why and wyth all answeared to that whych eyther M. doctor alleageth in thys place of the. 80. and. 81. and likewise in the. 152. 185. pages touching thys matter I come now vnto that whych is called the Iewishe purifying by the admonition and by the seruice boke afore time the purification of women Now to the churching of women in the which title yet kept there seemeth to be hid a great part of the Iewish purification For lyke as in the old law shee that had brought forthe a childe was holden vncleane vntill suche time as shee came to the temple to shew her selfe after shee had brought forthe a man or a woman so thys terme of churching of her canseme to import nothing els theÌ„ a banishment as it were a certen excommunication from the church during the space that is betwene the time of her deliuery of her comming vnto y church For what doth els thys churching implie but a restoring her vnto y church whych caÌ„ not be without some bar or shutting forth presupposed It is also called the thanks giuing but the principall title whych is the directory of this part of the Liturgie placed in the top of the leafe as the whych the translator best liked of is churching of women To pas by the that it wil haue theÌ„ come as nigh the communion table as may be as they came before to y high altare because I had spoken once generally against such ceremonies y of all other is most Iewish approcheth nerest vnto the Iewish purification y she is commauÌ„ded to offer accustomed offrings Wherin besides that the very word offring caryeth with it a strong sent suspitioÌ„ of a sacrifice especially being vttered simply without any addition it can not be without danger that the boke maketh the custome of the popish church whych was so corrupt to be the rule measure of this offring And although the meaning of the boke is not the it shuld be any offring for sin yet this manner of speaking may be a stuÌ„bling stock in the way of y ignorant simple the wicked obstinate therby are confirmed hardned in their corruptions The best which can be answered in this case is the it is for the relief of the minister but theÌ„ it shuld be

it is easely answeared both to the papistes and M. Doctor that for so much as the Apostle doth witnes that the churches of Corinth consysting of meÌ„ and women dyd receyue that therefore women also dyd receiue and were pertakers of the Lords table Thus it is manyfest that M. Doctor only to displease the authors of the Admonition sticketh not to pleasure iij. notable heretickes Anabaptists Catabaptists and Papists To the next section contayned in the. 96. and a peece of the. 97. page MAister Doctor asketh how it is proued that there was any examination of the communicantes After thys sorte all thinges necessarye were vsed in the churches of God in the Apostles times but examynation of those whose knowledge of the mistery of the gospell was not knowne or doubted of was a necessary thing therfore it was vsed in the churches of God which were in the Apostles tyme Then he sayeth he is sure there is neither commaundement nor example in all the scripture In the booke of the Chronicles he might haue red that the Leuites were there commaunded to prepare the people vnto the receyuing of the passeouer in place whereof we haue the Lordes supper Now examination being a part of the preparation it followeth that heere is coÌ„maundement of the examination And how holdeth thys argument S. Paule commaundeth that euery man should proue hym selfe Ergo there is no commaundement that the mynister should proue and examine them so I may say that euery man is a spirituall king to gouerne hym selfe therefore he may not be gouerned of others The authors of the Admonition doe not meane that euery one shoulde be examyned as those whose vnderstanding in the gospell is well knowen or which doe examyne them selues and so they interpreate them selues in the. 108. page To the next section in the 97. 98. and in a peece of the. 99. pages I Haue spoken of thys bread before in generall and if Maister Doctor dyd not disagree wyth hym selfe we are heere well agreed For first he sayth it skilleth not what bread we haue and by and by he sayth that he wysheth it were common bread and assigneth a great cause which the booke of seruice lykewise assigneth which is to auoyde superstition And it is certaynely known by experience that in dyuers places the ignoraunt people y haue beene mysled in popery haue knocked and kneeled vnto it and helde vp theyr handes whilest the mynister hath geuen it not those only which haue receyued it but those which haue bene in the churche and looked on I speake of that whiche I knowe and haue sene wyth my eyes An other reason is alleaged by Mayster Bucer which is that there being some thicker substance of breade and such as should moue and stirre vp the tast better the consyderation of the mynde which is conueyed by the senses might be also the more effectuall and so the fruite of receyuing greater By the way note that eyther Bucers censures vppon the booke of seruice be falsely ascribed vnto hym or be corrupted or else were not euen in hys owne tyme heere thought good substantiall and suffycient when there is some cause by Acte of Parliament afterwarde found I meane in the second booke of kyng Edward to mislyke wafer cakes and to chaunge them into common bread How so euer it be that circumstance would be well marked that it was one thyng to talke of a wafer cake in the vse of the supper in kyng Edward dayes before they were iustly abolyshed an other thyng now being reuoked after they were remoued Besides that we be called by the example of our sauioure Christe to vse in the supper vsuall and common bread for what time our sauioure Christ celebrated hys supper there was no other breade to be gotten but vnleauened breade there being a straight charge geuen by the lawe that there should be then no leauened bread And it is not to be doubted but that if there had bene then when he celebrated hys supper as at other times nothyng but leauened breade he woulde not haue caused vnleauened bread to haue bene made for that purpose of celebrating hys supper But thys is a grosse ouersyght of M. Doctor both in thys section and that whych goeth before that he hathe not learned to make a difference betwene that whych is not sincerely done and that whych is not at all done For in the former section he triumpheth vpon the admonition because they conclude that for as muche as there is no examination therefore it is not rightly and sincerely ministred For sayeth he the examination of the communicants is not of the substance of the sacrament and in thys section he sayeth that for as muche as it is not of the substance of the sacrament whether there be leauened or vnleauened bread therfore it is not sufficiently proued that the sacrament is not sincerely ministred But he ought to haue vnderstanded that if either the matter of the sacrament as bread and wine or the forme of it whych is the institution whych thyngs are only substantiall partes were wanting that then there should haue bene no sacrament ministred at all but they being retayned and yet other things vsed whych are not conuenient the Sacrament is ministred but not sincerely For example in the popishe baptisme there was the substance of baptisme but there being vsed spyttle and creame and candels and such beggerly trumpery it was not sincerely ministred therefore it is one thyng to minister sincerely and an other thyng to minister so that that whych is of the substance shoulde be wanting But of thys distinction I haue spokeÌ„ in an other place wherinto although M. doctor falleth in the next section and in other places yet thys shall be an answere for all The meaning of the Admonition in saying their God of the altar is plain enough that it is vnderstanded of the papists but that M. Doctor doth set him selfe to draw the authors of it into hatred and he can not be ignorant that when a man speaketh of thyngs whych are notoriously knowne he often vseth the or that or their wythout naming the thyngs whych he speaketh of To the next section contained in the. 99. and a peece of the. 100. page ALthough it be not of necessity that we shuld receyue the communion sitting yet there is the same cause of abolyshing kneeling that there is of remouing the wafer cake and if there be danger of superstition in one as M. Doctor confesseth why is there not danger in the other And if there be men that take occasion to fall at the one and that by superstition howe commeth it to passe that M. Doctor in the. 180. page sayeth that neyther gospeller nor papistes obstinate nor simple can superstitiously offend in this kneelyng when as the kneeling caryeth a greater shewe of worshyp and Imprinteth in the mindes of the ignorant a stronger opinion and a deeper print of adoration then the syght of a rounde â—ake And

So M. Doctor wryte he careth not what he write Belike he thinketh the credite of hys degree of Doctorshyp will geue waight to that which is light and pithe to that which is froth or else he would neuer answere thus For then I will if thys be a good reason say that for so much as S. Luke doth not in that place describe the office of the pastor or byshoppe which preacheth the woorde therefore that place proueth not that in euery congregation there should be a byshop or a pastor Besides that M. Doctor taketh vp the authors of the Admonition for reasoning negatiuely of the testimony of all the scriptures and yet hee reasoneth negatiuely of one only sentence in the scripture For he would conclude that for so much as there is no duetie of a senyor described in that place therefore there is no duety at all and consequently no senyor Afterwardes he sayeth that for so much as thys place hath bene vsed to proue a pastor or byshop in euery church therfore it can not be vsed to proue these elders so that sayeth he there must needes be eyther a contradiction or else a falsification The place is rightly alledged for both the one and the other and yet neyther contradiction to them selues nor falsification of the place but only a must before M. Doctors eyes which will not let hym see a playne and euident truth which is that the word elder is generall and comprehendeth both those elders which teach and gouerne and those which gouerne only as hath bene shewed out of S. Paule And whereas M. Doctor sayeth that the place of the Corinthes may bee vnderstanded of cyuill magistrates of preaching mynisters of gouernoures of the whole churche and not of euery particulare churche and fynally any thing rather then that wherof it is in deede vnderstanded I say first that he styll stumbleth at one stone which is that he can not put a difference betwene the church and common wealth and so betwene the church officers which he there speaketh of and the officers of the common wealth those which are ecclesiasticall and those which are cyuill Then that he meaneth not the mynister which proacheth it may appeare for that he had noted them before in the worde teachers and last of all he can not meane gouernoure of the whole church onles he shoulde meane a Pope and if he will say he meaneth an Archbyshop which gouerneth a whole prouince besides that it is a bolde speach without all warrant I haue shewed before that the word of God alloweth of no such office and therefore it remayneth that it must be vnderstanded of thys office of Elders The same answere may be made vnto that which he sayeth of the place to the Romaines where speaking of the offyces of the church after that hee had set forth the office of the pastor and of the doctor he addeth those other two offices of the Churche whereof one was occupyed in the gouernement only the other in prouyding for the poore and helping the sicke And if besides the manifest words of the Apostle in both these places I shoulde adde the sentences of the wryters vpon those places as M. Caluin M. Beza M. Martyr M. Bucer c. It should easely appeare what iust cause M. Doctor hath to say that it is to daily with the scriptures and to make them a nose of waxe in alledging of these to proue the elders that all men might vnderstand what terrible outcryes he maketh as in thys place so almost in all other when there is cause that he shoulde lay hys hand vpon hys mouth Thys I am compelled to wryte not so much to proue that there were senyors in euery church which is a thing confessed as to redeame those places from M. Doctors false and corrupt interpretations And as for the proufe of elders in euery congregation besydes hys confession I neede haue no more but hys owne reason For he sayeth that the office of these elders in euery church was in that tyme wherein there were no christian magistrates and when there was persecution but in the Apostles tymes there was both persecution and no christian magistrates therefore in theyr tyme the office of these elders was in euery congregation I come therefore to the second poynt wherein the question especially lyeth which is whether thys function be perpetuall and ought to remayne alwayes in the churche And it is to be obserued by the way that where as there are dyuers sortes of aduersaryes to thys disciplyne of the church Maister Doctor is amongst the worst For there be that saye that thys order may be vsed or not vsed now at the lybertie of the churches But M. Doctor sayeth that thys order is not for these tymes but only for those tymes when there were no christian magistrates and so doth flatly pinch at those churches which hauing christian magistrates yet notwithstanding retayne thys order still And to the ende that the vanitie of thys distinction which is that there oughte to bee senyors or auncientes in the tymes of persecution and not of peace vnder tyrantes and not vnder christian magistrates may appeare the cause why these senyors or auncientes were appoynted in the church is to bee consydered which must needes be graunted to bee for that the pastor not being able to ouersee all hym selfe and to haue hys eyes in euery corner of the church and places where the churches aboade might be helped of the auncientes Wherin the wonderfull loue of God towards hys church doth manifestly appeare that for the greater assurance of the saluation of hys dyd not content hym selfe to appoynt one only ouerseer of euery church but many ouer euery church And therefore seeing that the pastor is now in the tyme of peace and vnder a christian magistrate not able to ouersee all hym selfe nor hys eyes can not bee in euery place of the paryshe present to beholde the behauiour of the people it followeth that as well now as in the tyme of persecution as well vnder a christian prince as vnder a tyrant the office of an auncient or seignior is required Onles you will say that God hath lesse care of hys church in the time of peace and vnder a godly magistrate then he hath in the tyme of persecution and vnder a tyrant In deede if so bee the auncientes in the tyme of persecution and vnder a tyrant had medled with any office of a magistrate or had supplyed the roume of a godly magistrate in handling of any of those things which belonged vnto hym then there had bene some cause why a godly magistrate being in the church the office of the senior or at least so much as he exercised of the office of a magistrate shuld haue ceased But when as the auncient neither dyd nor by any meanes might meddle with those things which belonged vnto a magistrate no more vnder a tyrant theÌ„ vnder a godly magistrate there is no reason why

iudgement of M. Bucer And wheras M. doctor vpon that s. Peter willeth the husbands to geue honor to their wiues wold approue this manner of speach in matrimony wyth my body I thee worshyp he must vnderstaÌ„d that it is one thing wyth vs to worship and an other thing to honor For we honor men whych we do not worshyp and besides that S. Peter speaketh of the honor of the mynde wherby the husband shuld be moued to beare wyth the infirmities of his wife therfore it is vnfitly alleaged to proue that he may worship her with his body As for the receiuing of the Communion when they be marryed that it is not to be suffered onles there be a generall receiuing I haue before at large declared and as for the reason that is fathered of M. Bucer whych is that those that be Christians maye not be ioyned in maryage but in Christe It is verye slender and cold as if the sacrament of the supper were instituted to declare any such thyng or they could not declare their ioyning togither in Christ by no meanes but by receyuing the supper of the Lorde To the next section in the. 197. page TEll me M. doctor why there should be any such confirmation in the church being brought in by the fained Decretall Epistles of the Popes and no one tittle therof being once found in the scrypture and seeing that it hath bene so horribly abused and not necessary why ought it not to be vtterly abolyshed and thirdly thys confirmation hath very dangerous poynts in it The first steppe of popery in thys confirmation is the laying on of hands vpon the head of the childe wherby the opinion of it that it is a sacrament is confirmed especially when as the prayer dothe saye that it is done according to the example of the Apostles whych is a manifest vntruthe and taken in deede from the popish confirmation The seconde is for that the byshop as he is called must be the only minister of it wherby the popishe opinion whych esteemeth it aboue baptisme is confirmed For whilest baptisme may be ministred of the minister and not coÌ„firmation but only of the byshop there is great cause of suspition geuen to thinke that baptisme is not so precious a thing as confirmation seeing thys was one of the principall reasons wherby that wicked opinion was establyshed in popery I do not heere speake of the inconuenience that meÌ„ are constrained with charges to bryng their childreÌ„ oftentimes halfe a score miles for that which if it were nedeful might be as wel done at home in their owne parishes The thirde is for y â— â—â— the allegation of the seconde cause of the vsing of the confirmation the boke sayeth that by the imposition of hands and prayer the chyldren may receyue strengthe and defence agaynst all temptations whereas there is no promyse that by the laying on of hands vpon chyldren any suche gyfte shall be geuen and it maintayneth the popyshe distinction that the spirite of God is geuen at baptisme vnto the remissyon of synnes and in confirmation vnto strength the whych very worde strength the booke alledgeth and all thys M. Doctor confuteth by callyng of the authors of the admonition peeuish and arrogant To the next section contained in the. 198. 199. 200. 201. pages LEast M. Doctor as hys common fashyon is when the corruption of anye thyng is spoken agaynst say that we condemne buryall I would haue hym vnderstand that we hold that the body must be honestly and comely buried and that it is mete that for that cause some reasonable numbre of those whych be the frends and neyghbors about should accompany the corps to the place of buryall We hold it also lawfull to lament the dead and if the dignity of the persone so require we thynke it not vnlawfull to vse some way about the buriall wherby that may appeare but yet so that there be a measure kepte bothe in the weepyng and in the charges consydering that whereas immoderate eyther weepyng or pompe was neuer no not in the tyme of the lawe allowed nowe in the time of the gospell all that is not lawfull whych was permitted in the time of the law For vnto the people of God vnder the law weeping was by so much more permitted vnto them then vnto vs by howe muche they had not so cleare a reuelation and plaine syght of the resurrection as we haue whych was y cause also why it was lawfull for them to vse more cost in the embaulmyng of the dead therby to nouryshe and to helpe their hope touchyng the resurrection wherof we haue a greater pledge by the resurrection of our sauyor Christ then they had Nowe for the thyngs whych the admonition findeth fault wyth and thereof bryngeth reason M. Doctor of hys bare credite wythout any reason or scrypture or any thyng els commendeth them vnto vs sayeth they be good And thys you shall marke to be M. doctors symple shyft throughoute hys booke that when he hath no coloure of scripture nor of reason no name nor title of doctor theÌ„ to make vp some thyng he varyeth hys affirmation by all the figures he can as in saying simplye that it is so and then in askyng whether it be not so and after in askyng whether there is any other man will thynke that it is not so as if the woulde make vs beleeue that he setteth vs dyuers kindes of meates because he bryngeth the same in dyuers dyshes For besydes these reasons he hathe no reason eyther to proue that it is meete to haue prescript forme of seruice for the dead or that the minister should be drawne to thys charge Surely if the order be so good and conuenient it hath met with a very barren patron whych can say nothing for it And although there be enough sayd by the admonition yet because thys bold and hardy speache is enough to lead the simpler away to make them thinke that M. doctor hathe a good cause therfore I wil also say somthyng of these rites of buryal And first of all as thys almost is a generall fault in them all that they maintayne in the mindes of the ignorant the opinion of praying for the dead so is thys also a nother general fault that these ceremonyes are taken vp without any example either of the churches vnder the law or of the purest churches vnder the gospel that is of the churches in the apostles times For when the scripture descrybeth the ceremonies or rites of buryall amongste the people of God so dilygently that it maketh mention of the smallest thyngs there is no doubte but the holy Ghoste doth therby shew vs a paterne wherevnto we should also frame oure buryalles And therfore for so much as neyther the church vnder the law nor vnder the gospell when it was in the greatest puritye dyd euer vse any prescript forme of seruice in the buryall of theyr dead it coulde not be but daungerous

witnesses are Popes whereof the first and best ordained that if the Metropolitane did not fetche hys pall at the apostolike sea of Rome wythin three monthes after he were consecrated that then he should lose his dignity as Gratian witnesseth in the decrees y he ascribeth vnto Damasus I doubt not therfore that this is but a forger vpon whom you would father the archdeacon for that Damasus in whose place you put this forger liued An. 387. at what time the sea of Rome had no suche tirannye as thys and other things which are fathered of him do preteÌ„d And if this be enough to proue archdeacons I can with better witnes proue subdeacons acoluthes exorcistes lectores ostiarios these dothe Eusebius make mention of an auncienter wryter then any you bring and out of Ruffine Theodoret Sozomen Socrates c. monks almost in euery page And heere vpon it is more lawfull for me to conclude that monkes subdeacons exorcistes acoluthes ostiarij lectores are necessary ecclesiasticall orders in the church as you conclude the necessity of the archdeacon I perceiue you care not whether the archdeacon fall or no that you bestow so little coste of hym and leaue him so nakedly And if I woulde be but halfe so holde in coniectures and diuinations as you are I coulde say that thys sleighte handling of the archdeacon and sweating so muche aboute the archbyshoppe is thervpon y you woid be loth to come froÌ„ being deane to be an archdeacon you liue in some hope of being archbyshop but I will not enter so farre And surely for any thing that I see you might haue trussed vp the archbyshop as shorte as you do the archdeacon For they stand vpon one pinne and those reasons whych establishe the one establishe the other wherevpon also commeth to passe that all those reasons whych were before alledged against the archbishop may be drawn against the archdeacon hauing therfore before proued the vnlawfulnes of them I will heere set downe the difference betweene those archdeacons that were in times past and those whych are nowe whereby it may appeare they are nothing like but in name They were no ministers as appeareth in Sozomen oures are They were tied to a certaine churche and were called archdeacon of suche a congregation or churche oures are tied to none but are called archdeacons of suche a shire They were chosen by all the Deacons of the churche where they be archdeacons oures are appoynted by one man and whych is no deacon They were subiect to the minister of the word oures are aboue them and rule ouer them It was counted to them great arrogancie if they preferred theÌ„selues to any minister or elder of the churche oures will not take the best ministers of the churche as their equalles If therfore archdeacons will haue any benefite by the archdeacons of olde time it is meete they shoulde content them selues wyth that place whych they were in As for the office of a deane as it is vsed wyth vs it is therfore vnlawfull for that he being minister hathe no seuerall charge or congregation appoynted wherein he maye exercise hys ministerie and for that he is ruler and as it were maister of diuers other ministers in hys colledge whych likewise haue no seueral charges of congregations and for that whych is most intollerable bothe he hym selfe oftentimes hauing a seuerall churche or benefice as they call it is vnder the coloure of hys deaneship absent from hys churche and suffereth also those that are vnderneathe hym to be likewise absent from their churches And whereas M. Doctor alleageth S. Augustine to proue thys office to be auncient in deede the name is there founde but besides the name not one propertye of that Deane whych we haue For Augustine speaking of the monkes of those dayes sayeth that the money which they gate wyth the labor of their hands they gaue to their deane which did prouide them meate and drinke and cloth and all things necessary for them so that the monkes shoulde not be drawne away from their studies and meditations throughe the care of worldly things so that thys deane whych he speaketh of was seruaunt and steward and cater to the monkes and therfore only called deane because he was steward and cater to ten monkes Now let it be seene what Augustines deane maketh for the deane whych is nowe and what faith and trust M. Doctor vseth in reciting of the olde fathers And vnto the ende that these testimonies might be more autenticall haue some waight in them M. Doctor addeth that hetherto antichrist had not inuaded the seat of Rome You shall haue much a do to proue that antichrist had not inuaded the sea of Rome when your Clement Anaclete Anicete and Damasus wrote Nay it is moste certaine that then he had possessed it But what is that to the purpose althoughe there was no one singulare head appeared or lifted vp yet corruption of doctrine and of the sacraments hurtful ceremonies dominion and pompe of the cleargye newe orders and functions of the ministerie whych were the handes that pulled hym the fete whych brought him the shoulders that lifted and heaued him vp into that seate were in the church Neither while you doe thus speake doe you seeme to remember that this monster needed nine monethes but almoste nine hundreth yeares to be framed and fashioned or euer he could wyth all his partes be brought to light And although the Loouer of thys antichristian building were not set vp yet the foundations therof being secretely and vnder the ground laid in the apostles times you might easely know that in those times that you speake of the building was wonderfully aduauÌ„ced and growne very highe And being a very dangerous thing to ground any order or pollicy of the church vpon men at all whych in deede ought to haue their standing vpon the doctrine and orders of the apostles I wil shew what great iniurie M. Doctor doth to sende vs for our examples and paternes of gouernment to these times whych he doth direct vs vnto Eusebius oute of Egesippus wryteth that as long as the apostles liued the churche remained a pure virgin for that if there were any that went about to corrupt the holy rule that was preached they did it in the darke as it were digging vnderneath the earth But after the death of the apostles and the generation was past whych God vouchsaued to heare the deuine wisedome wyth their owne eares then the placing of wicked error began to come into the church Clement also in a certaine place to confirme that there was corruption of doctrine immediately after the apostles times alledgeth the prouerbe that there are fewe sonnes like their fathers And Socrates sayeth of the church of Rome and Alexandria which were the most famous churches in the apostles times that about the yeare 430. the Romaine and Alexandrian byshops leauing the sacred function were degenerate to a

seculare rule or dominion Wherevpon we see howe that it is safe for vs to go to the scriptures and to the apostles times for to fetch our gouernmeÌ„t and order And that it is very dangerous to drawe from those riuers the fountaines wherof are troubled and corrupted especially when as the wayes whereby they runne are muddier and more fennie then is the head it selfe And although M. Doctor hathe brought neither scripture nor reason nor councel wherin there is either name of archbishop or archdeacon or proued that there may be although he shewe not so much as the name of them 400. yeres after our sauioure Christ And although where he sheweth them they be eyther by counterfait authors or wythout any worde of approbation of good authors yet as though he had shewed all and proued all hauing shewed nothing nor proued nothing he clappeth the hands to himselfe and putteth the crowne vpon hys owne heade saying that those that be learned may easely vnderstande that the names archbishop archdeacon primate patriarche be most auncient and approued of the eldest best worthiest councels fathers wryters And a little afterward that they are vnlearned and ignorant whych say otherwise Heere is a victory blowne wyth a great and sounding trumpet that might haue bene piped wyth an oten straw And if it shuld be replied againe that M. Doctor hathe declared in thys little learning little reading and les iudgement there might grow controuersies wythout all frute And by and by in saying that the archbyshops beginning is vnknown in stead of a bastard which some brought into the church that hid them selues because they were ashamed of the childe he will make vs beleeue that we haue a new Melchisedech without father wythout mother and whose generation is not knowne and so concludeth wyth the place of S. Augustine as farre as he remembreth in the. 118. epistle to Ianuarie that the originall of them is from the apostles them selues Heere M. Doctor seemeth to seeke after some glory of a good memory as thoughe he had not Augustine by him when he wrote this sentence And yet he maruellously forgetteth him selfe for he vsed this place before in hys 23. page and citeth it there precisely and absolutely where also I haue shewed howe vnaduisedly that sentence of Augustine is approued howe that therby a window is open to bring in all popery and whatsoeuer other corrupt opinions That the names of Lordes and honor as they are vsed in this realme are not meete to be giuen to the ministers of the gospell there hath bene spoken before As for Prelate of the Garter if it be a nedefull office there are inow to execute it besides the ministers whych for as much as they be apoynted to watch ouer the soules of men purchased wyth the bloud of Christ all men vnderstande that it is not meete that they should attend vpon the body much les vpon the leg and least of all vpon the Garter It is not vnlawfull for Princes to haue ministers of their honor but also it is not lawful to take those that God hath appoynted for an other ende to vse to suche purposes Thou seest heere good Reader that M. Doctor keepeth hys olde wonte of manifest peruerting of the wordes and meaning of the authors of the admonition for where as they say that the name of Earle Countie Palatine Iustice of peace and Quorum Commissioner are antichristian when they are geuen to ministers of the church whose calling wil not agree wyth such titles he concludeth simply that they say that they be altogither vnlawfull and simply antichristian As if I should reason that it is not meete that the Quenes maiesty shuld preach or minister the Sacraments therefore it is not meete that there should be any preaching or ministering of the sacraments Now letting pas all your hard words vnbrotherly speaches wyth your vncharitable Prognostications and colde prophesies I will come to examine whether you haue any better hap in prouing the office then you had in prouing the name And wheras in the former treatise of the name of the archbyshop he blew the trompet before the victory here in this of the office he bloweth it before he commeth into the fielde or striketh one stroke saying that they little consider what they wryte that they are contemners of auncient wryters that they neuer red them and that they are vnlearned which deny these things which he affirmeth Wel what we read how vnlearned we are is not the matter which we striue for The iudgement thereof is first wyth God and then with the churches and in their iudgements we are content to rest But if you be so greatly learned and we so vnlearned and smally red then the truth of our cause shall more appeare that is maintained wyth so small learning reading against men of suche profound knowledge and great reading And yet I knowe not why if we be not to idle we shuld not be able to read as much as you which may haue leisure to read a good long wryter or euer you can ryde only to see and salute your houses and liuings being so many and so farre distaÌ„t one from an other And if we be so vnlearned and holde suche dangerous opinions of Papistrie and Anabaptistry as you beare men in hand we do why do you not by the example of the ministers in Germanie procure a publike disputatioÌ„ where you may both win your spurres and such detestable opinions wyth the ignorance of the authors may be displayed vnto the whole world But let vs heare what is sayd Cyprian sayth he speaking of the office of an archbyshop c. Onles good reader thou wilt first beleue that Cyprian speaketh of an archbyshop and haste before conceiued a strong imagination of it M. Doctor can proue nothing Aristotle sayeth that vncunning Painters wryte the names of the beastes whych they painte in their tables for because otherwise it coulde not be knowne what they painte so M. Doctor mistrusting that the archbyshop will not be knowne by his description wryteth first the name of that he wil paint out Thys is it whych we striue about wherof the coÌ„trouersy is and this M. doctor taketh for graunted He accuseth the authors of the admonition for faulting in the petition of the principle or desiring to haue that graunted whych is denyed yet I am sure that in the whole admonition there is not such a grosse petition as thys is Where or in what wordes dothe S. Cyprian speake of the office of an archbyshop And heere by the way it is to be obserued of the reader how neare a kin the Pope and the archbishop be For this office is confirmed by the same places that the popes is the places and arguments which are brought againste hym are soluted wyth the same solutions that they vse whych maintaine the papacie For these places of Cyprian be alledged for the popes supremacye and in deede they make as

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