Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	apostle_n	church_n	world_n	2,798	5	4.6161	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91309	Truth triumphing over falshood, antiquity over novelty. Or, The first part of a just and seasonable vindication of the undoubted ecclesiasticall iurisdiction, right, legislative, coercive power of Christian emperors, kings, magistrates, parliaments, in all matters of religion, church-government, discipline, ceremonies, manners: summoning of, presiding, moderating in councells, synods; and ratifying their canons, determinations, decrees: as likewise of lay-mens right both to sit and vote in councells; ... In refutation of Mr. Iohn Goodwins Innocencies Triumph: my deare brother Burtons Vindication of churches, commonly called Independent: and of all anti-monarchicall, anti-Parliamentall, anti-synodicall, and anarchicall paradoxes of papists, prelates, Anabaptists, Arminians, Socinians, Brownists, or Independents: whose old and new objections to the contrary, are here fully answered. / By William Prynne, of Lincolnes Inne, Esquire.	Prynne, William, 1600-1669.	1645 (1645)	Wing P4115; Thomason E259_1; ESTC R212479	202,789	171

liberty left them to elect what civil government they by publique consent shall deem most convenient provided it be generally agreeable to Gods Word which hath prescribed generall rules applicable to all civill Governments actions as well as Ecclesiasticall and spirituall though no one Government in particular And why the Government of the CHVRCH MILITANT should be more particularly uniformly unalterably said down in scripture then the Government of Christian Kingdoms Nations states under the Gospel which leaves both of them equally undetermined since both of them were alike limited among the Israelites under the Law no rational man cangive any solid reason Christ being King of Kings Lord of Lords yea a great King over all the Earth the only Potentate and Lord of Kingdoms Nations Republiques and of mens bodyes estates as well as KING and Lord of his Church Saints or of mens soules and consciences 9ly There was not only one uniforme Church-government at first under the Gospell in all Churches no not in the Apostles times for in the originall gathering and planting of the Christian Churches they had at first only Apostles Brethren no Elders or Deacons After that their Churches increasing they proceeded to elect ordain Deacons in the Churches of Ierusalem and afterwards some other Churches though not in all for ought we read Not long after the Apostls ordained Elders in Churches which had none at first after that Widowes in some Churches not in all In the primitive Churches some Congregations had Apostle s Evangelists Prophets workers of miracles Healers by miraculous extraordinary gifts of healing men endued with diversities of Tongues Interpretation of Tongues GOVERNMENTS that is men gifted with an extraordinary faculty of Governing Churches all which the Scriptures many Divines distinguish Other Churches at that time had none of these Officers or members and all Churches have beene deprived of them since those dayes these Officers not being perpetuall but temporary as all acknowledge though Christ might have continued a succession of them still had he pleased Therefore the Government and Officers of all Churches not being de facto one and the selfesame in all particulars in the very Primitive times as well as since it can never be proved to be of divine right but one the sel same in al succeeding ages without the least variation since it was not so in the Apostles days 10ly The Apostles speech 1. Cor. 12. 4 5. 6. c. There are diversities of gifts but the same spirit and there are differences of administrations but the same Lord and there are diversities of operations but the same God which worketh all in all compared with v. 8. to 13. ch 9. v. 19. to 24. I made my selfe servant unto all that I might gaine all And unto the Jew I became as a Jew that I might gaine the Jew to them that are under the Law as under the Law that I might gaine the Jew to them that are under the Law To them that are without Law as without Law that I might gaine them that are without Law To the weake I became as weake that I might gaine the weake I am made all things to all men that I might by all meanes save some paralleld with Acts 15. 1. 2. 5. 6. to 32. Ch. 21. 18. to 30. by which it is evident that many Churches of the Iewes and those in Jerusalem did still rotain the use of Circum●ition purification other Iewish Rites Ceremonies which the Churches of the Gentiles by the Apostles owne resolutions WERE NOT TO OBSERUE And with Acts c. 2. to cap. 22. where it expresly appeares that the Apostles and other Christians equally frequented the Iewish Temple Synagogues conforming themselves to the Orders discipline thereof and their owne private Assemblie Cougregations consisting all of professed Christians Wil expresly clear it that all particular Churches Congregations in the Apostles times had not one and the selfe same Church-government Orders Ceremonies Therefore it is most cleare there is no such uniforme general government or discipline necessarily prescribed in the Gospel unto al without the least variation as is objected Eleventhly It must be granted to me till disproved that before the Law from Adams Creation till Moses there was no one universall set forme of Church Government and discipline enjoyned to be observed by all the world from which none might vary in any particular That under the Law it selfe there was one forme of Government Worship Discipline Ceremonies and Solemnities to be observed in the Wildernesse another in the Lind of Canaan One forme in and under the Tabernacle revealed by God described by Moses another in and under the Temple shewed by God and appointed by David and Salomon Yea the second Temple and its Ornaments services differed somwhat from the first and all of them expired when the Gospell came If then there were no one universall constant forme of Church-Government Discipline before and under the Law it selfe then by parity of reason till direct Scripture proofes be produced to the contraty there neither is nor can be any such under the Gospell Twelfthly The Scripture as all must acknowledge gives not many particular but mostly generall Rules for the Government and regulating of our thoughts words actions lives Children Servants Families callings the fashion of our apparell gestures eating drinking sleep c. Yea the promises and threatnings in it are for the most part generall and indefinite yet applyable to every particular person and occasion If then there be for the most part only generall Rules precepts which admit some Latitude and variety in particulars prescribed to us for the very ordering and regulating of our thoughts words actions lives apparell meat drinke c. Then certainely there are but generall Rules and Precepts given us for the Government Discipline of the Churches which admit varieties of Government discipline in sundry particulars so as they agree in the generall with the Word and bee not repugnant to it as well as the generall Rules for regulating our words thoughts actions conversations callings apparell meat drinke and family Governments admit of variety which more immediately concerne every man then the more remote and generall Government of the Church But against this my Brother Burton Objects 1. That God in the Old Testament did give this charge to Moses See that thou doe all things according to the patterne shewed thee in the Mount Hee must not vary ONE PIN And when the Temple was built God was so exact in this that he would not leave it to David himselfe though both a King and a Prophet and a man after Gods owne heart to set up what worship he pleased in the Temple but God gave him an exact patterne of all and that not only by his Spirit but in writing that he might neither adde to nor omit IN THE LEAST TITLE 1 Chron. 28. And it was never left

as Neubrigensis l. 1. c. 19. records In the Lateran Councell held by Charles the great and Pope Adrian and called principally by this Pope the Councell was most solemnly held by 53 Ecclesiasticall persons Bishops or Abbots together with Judges Magistrates and Doctors of Law from all parts and also persons of all sorts and states of that City and all the Clergie of the Church of Rome who made enquiry of the customes lawes and manners of that Church and Empire consulting also by what meanes heresies and seditions might be rooted out of the Apostolique See and treating of the dignity of the Senate and Empire of Rome seeing that by reason of these things a false errour was spread over the whole world In another Councell of Lateran under Pope Leo and the Emperour Otho the Pope himselfe in his Speech to the Emperour confesseth that that Councell consisted not onely of Clergy-men but of Judges and Doctors of Law That such may be competent and meet Judges in matters of Religion and Church-affaires is evident by this notable passage of Cardinall Jacobatius though a great stickler for the Popes and Prelates authorities that in a Synod holden before Constantine and Helena where it was disputed Whether the Jewish or Christian Law should be preferrred Craton a Philosopher who would not possesse any worldly goods and Zenosimus who never received present from any in the time of his Consulship were appointed Iudges of this controversie With which the saying of learned John Gerson Chancellour of Paris accords There was a time when without any rashnesse or prejudice to faith the controversies of faith were referred to the judgement of Pagan Philosophers who presupposing the faith of Christ to be such as it was confessed to be however they did not beleeve it yet they knew what would follow by evident and necessary consequence from it and what was repugnant to it Thus it was in the Councell of Nice as is left unto us upon record So likewise Eutropius a Pagan Philosopher was chosen JVDGE between Origen and the Marcionites who were condemned by him If Pagan Philosopehrs then much more Christian Laicks endowed with learning and wisdome may be fit Iudges of controversies of Religion and Ecclesiasticall affaires and fit to have Votes in Synods And that they have been so deemed in ancient times is evident by one memorable history recorded by Possidonius in the life of S. Augustine cap. 12 13 14. who not onely informes us that Crispinus Bishop of Calamen a Donatist being accused before the Proconsull for an Hereticke and for breaking the lawes against Hereticks and denying himselfe to be one St Augustine and he debated the controversie three severall times before the Proconsull in a great multitude of Christian people expecting the event both at Carthage and throughout all Africk and that Crispin at last was pronounced an Hereticke by the Proconsull by a judiciall sentence After which there was a generall meeting at Carthage between all the Catholike Bishops and the Donatists by the speciall command of the most glorious and religious Emperour Honorius who sent Marcellinus the Tribune and Notary into Africk to bee Iudge in that Collation In which Conference the Donatists being throughly confuted and convinced of errour by the Catholikes were condemned by the sentence of the Iudge From which sentence they appealing to this Emperour were afterwards upon full hearing condemned by him and declared Hereticks Vpon which Appeale of theirs St. Augustine descants thus Is it peradventure not lawfull for the Emperour or those whom the Emperour shall send to give judgement in a matter of Religion Why then came your Embassadours to the Emperour why made they him the Iudge of their cause c. The Act of Marcellinus his sentence against the Donatists runs thus To the end that apparent errour may undergoe the yoke of revealed truth by the authority of this present Edict I advise all men of what condition soever Land-lords Stewards and Farmers as well which hold of the Crowne as of private possessions with the Ancients in all places that not forgetting the Lawes their owne dignity honour and safeguard they doe their endevour to hinder all Conventicles of the Donatists in all Townes whatsoever who shall bee bound to surrender up to the Catholikes those Churches which I allowed them of courtesie untill the day of sentence without Commission from the Emperour Photius Bishop of Smyrnae being accused for an Heretick by the Councell there was afterwards admitted to dispute with the Catholike Bishops in which dispute saith Sozomen certaine Iudges were ordained for Presidents of the Councell who from that time forwards were accounted men of prime ranke in the palace both for knowledg and dignity after many objections and answers pro and con Basil Bishop of Ancyra who defended the doctrine of the Catholikes got the victory and Photinus was condemned and sent into banishment Athanasius in his 2. Apologie requests that the Emperours most godly and religious Majesty might have the hearing of his own and his churches cause for we have good hopes that his godlinesse understanding our reasons will never condemne us If this seem strange to any Romanist that Lay-men should be competent Iudges in matters of Divinitie and have voices in Councels their owne Pope Nicholas his resolution in this very point may cease their wonder who saith in downe-right termes Faith is catholike and common to all as well to Lay-men as Priests yea generally to all Christians he speaks it expresly of Lay-mens assisting in Councels therefore it is just and reasonable they should have voices in matters of faith as well as Bishops and Clergy-men I shall close up this with the resolution of Marsilius of Padua who expresly resolves that Lay-men especially those who are pious and learned ought to be present in and summoned to generall Councels as well as Clergie-men especially when the Clergie are either ignorant corrupt or erronious in their judgements or scandalous in their lives His reasons are these First because they have all as great an interest in the faith and Churches good as any Prelates Popes or Clergie-men Secondly because many of them are better learned and versed in the Scriptures and Antiquities then many Bishops and Clergie-men yea more sound and orthodoxe in their judgments then they Thirdly because they were present and had voices in the Synod at Hierusalem even in the Apostles dayes Acts 15. and in the purest first generall Councels in which the Emperours with their Nobles and Officers assisted in the resolving of Scripture doubts Fourthly because the very Code of Isiodore for the manner of holding Councels hath this direction Deinde ingrediantur LAICI qui ELECTIONE CONCILII INTERESSE MERUERUNT Multò magis igitur qui fuerint literati in lege divina periti quanquam non sacerdotes existant sic enim fecerunt Apostoli cum Senioribus c. If any desire further satisfaction

breach of Gods Laws with temporall punishments yet by this Gods Lawes become not temporall and unobligatory to the conscience So God on the other side may and doth 〈◊〉 the violation of just humane Lawes with spirituall and eternall punishments Majestrates being but his Vicegerents Deputies and the contempt of their just Lawes a contempt of God himselfe Therefore the Argument holds not The 5th Objection is this that the conscience only respects God therefore nothing can binde it but Gods owne Law which is spirituall I Answer That the conscience respects as well men as God Act. 24. 16 therefore the just Lawes of men as I have proved as well as of God 2ly The conscience looks upon the just Laws and precepts of men not meerly as human Lawes but as proceeding from the Ministers and Vicegerents of God himselfe whom they represent and whom God himselfe frequently enjoynes us to obey The 6th Is this No one man and by consequence not all mens consciences in the world may or can Iudge another mans conscience who standeth or falleth 〈◊〉 his owne Master Rom. 14. 4. 16. Ergo they cannot make Lawes to binde the conscience I Answer first that this text speakes only of privat Christians Judging one another in things indifferent as meates holy dayes c. when and where there is neither law of God nor man inhibiting the free use or refusall of them at the whole Chapter manifests Therefore it makes nothing against necessary ecclesiastical● Laws Canons obliging men to obedience even in point of conscience 2ly The Apostle expresly concludes in this very Chap. v. 14. to 23. That in case of giving scandal and offence to weak Brethren we ought to abstaine from the very use of lawful indifferent things even out of conscience of the scandall hurt don thereby not simply of the things themselves though there be no law of God or man restraining or altering the indifferency or lawfulnes thereof that without any impeachment of Christian liberty Therefore when necessary or convenient things meerly indifferent in their nature are enjoyned by Superiors just Laws or inconvenient indifferent things prohibited for the publick good or peace they ought much more to be submitted to without impeachment of christian liberty out of Conscience of the Law and scandall which would follow the volation thereof and in obedience to the generall Law of God which commands obedience to such Lawes The 7. Objection is this There is one Lawgiver which is able to save and to destroy to wit God● who art thou that judgest another Iam. 4. 12. Ergo none can make laws to bind the conscience but God I answer 1. that there is but one supream absolut Lawgiver which is God Is 33. 2. wch excluds not subordinat ones 2ly The Apostle saith not that there is ONLY one law-giver that can save and destroy neither will the words infallibly conclude there is but one such since humane law-givers can make Lawes to save or destroy the lives bodyes and Estates of men as appeares by Scripture and the Lawes of all Nations though not their Soules as they are meare humane Lawes but only collaterally as the wilful contempts and violations of them are sins breaches of the very law of God prescribing obedience to those Lawes in which sence they may secondarily destroy the very soules of men Thirdly This Text takes not away the power of making necessary temp●rall or Ecclesiasticall Laws for then no such Lawes could possibly be made by any But the meaning of the Apostle is this That onely God the Supreame Law-giver is able by his Law to make any indifferent lawfull thing necessary or unlawfull in it selfe in point of Religion or conscience and to change the meere indifferency of it into a thing simply good or evil and not humane Law-givers Therefore we should not judge or condemne one another in the use or neglect of those things which God himselfe hath left indifferent where there is no circumstance of scandall or contempt of humane Lawes to engage us to use or not to use them But it reacheth not to such humane Lawes Civill or Ecclesiasticall which command or prohibit things agreeable to the rules of Gods Word or things necessary and expedient for Order Decency Peace avoyding of scandall and other mischiefes which Lawes as Doctor Willet himselfe who makes this objection affirmes do binde the conscience notwithstanding this objected Text. And thus much for my Brothers first generall Objection His second is this That the Scripture holds forth and Christ in the New-Testament presoribes and layes down unto us but ONLY ONE and that a most compleat and exact forme of Church government and Discipline which ought not to be altered or varied from in the least title being a part of the Gospel and must be BUT ONE and THE SAME in all Nations Churches in all ages throughout the World precisely observed by all Churches without the least variation That the Independent way alone is this divine unalterable Evangelicall platforme Therefore nor King nor Parliament though assisted with a Synod of most pious and learned orthodox Divines justly may or can of right make any Ecclesiasticall binding Lawes for the government or Discipline of the Churches of Christ within their Jurisdictions it being indeed a meere adding to the Word of God prohibited under a curse Deut. 4. 2. c. 12. 22. Prov. 30. 6. Rev. 22. 18 19. Thus my deare Brother and other Independents Argue with more confidence than evidence of Scripture To which I answer first That though Christ and his Apostles have instituted in the Gospel all necessary Church-Officers as Evangelical Bishops Elders Ministers Deacons Pastors Teachers c. and likewise given some general rules for the Government and Discipline of his Church yet he hath neither instituted nor prescribed any such unalterable compleat exact forme of Church-government and Discipline in all ages and Churches in the New Testament as is pretended by many not evidenced by any My reasons are these First Because no such exact and punctuall platforme is or can be clearly demonstrated to us nor discovered by us in the Scripture upon most diligent scrutiny Quod non lego non credo hath alwayes been reputed a solid Argument in matters of Divinity and divine institutions The Apostle Heb. 7. 13. 14. argues thus negatively even in the point of Christs Priesthood because Moses spake nothing of the Tribe of Iudah concerning Priesthood And God himselfe argues thus Deut. 9. 12. 15. Ye saw no manner of similitude therefore ye shall make no likenesse or image of me I may safely argue negatively in like sort The Scripture speaks nothing of such an exact universall Platforme and we see no image or similitude of it in the Gospel Therefore there is no such Secondly Independents have been frequently pressed to shew us any such exactform of Church-government instituted and generally prescribed to all ages

Churches in the Bible yet none of them nor my dear Brother have hitherto been able to shew it though they have oft-times promised it Therefore we presume there is no such Shew us but some cleare Texts to manifest it and we will believe you without more dispute till then though you were Angels from Heaven we dare not credit you without a word to build on 3ly Because some Independents themselves one Anonymous who hath published a malicious Answer to me full of virulency against Presbytery the Scots positively deny any such universall platforme concurring fully with me in opinion Fourthly Because the Churches of God ever since the Apostles dayes have in severall Nations Republikes States and Conditions had different formes of Government Discipline Ceremonies administrations in some particulars as the Independent Congregations of Brownists Anabaptists Familists c. differ in sundry things of moment among themselves and yet have ever beene reputed true Churches of Christ The Churches of England Scotland France Geneva Germany Aethiopia Russia Greece Bohemia and the Netherlands vary one from another in their Government Discipline Rites Ceremonies in some points of Doctrine and are not Independent yet none of our Brethren I suppose will be so uncharitable as to deem them all Antichristian opposers of the Kingdome and Government of Christ and no true Churches as they must of necessity be if Church-government be a part of the Gospel one uniform unalterable Government universally prescribed to them all Fiftly Because the Gospel never intended to subvert diminish crosse or destroy the lawfull civill politicall Governments Lawes Customes of Kingdomes Nations Republikes which are Gods own Ordinance as well as Churchgovernment since one Ordinance of God doth not crosse or thwart another Now the lawfull Governments Customes Manners of most Nations Kingdoms Republiks being various different one from another the Gospel to be equally preached to them all some Church-government erected among them all and the condition of the Church whiles militant in this world being as full of changes as the Moone sometimes tossed with the boysterous waves almost drowned in the flouds of affliction Sometimes totally ecelipsed and driven into the wildernesse in one place yet slourishing or lesse troubled in another Othertimes in a prosperous peaceable condition Sometimes under Pagan or impious Princes and Magistrates other whiles under more or lesse pious Christian Kings and Governours sometimes in a more pure light some otherwhiles in a more corrupt ignorant condition Sometimes over-growne with haeresies schismes Innovations other-times holding forth the truth more clearly and purging out of all errors sometimes requiring a more sharpe and rigorous Discipline other-times a more milde and gentle Yea some Nations being more barbarous fierce obstinat vitious proner to some kinde of vices sins corruptions then others and so needing a Discipline Government somewhat discrepant from those who are more civell and ingenious Some using one gesture of prayer adoration administring the Sacrament some another as some bowing others kneeling others prostration some knocking of the breasts some bare-headed others covered some vayled others unvayled some sitting at the Lords Supper in one manner others in another Some kneeling others standing some using dipping others sprinkling others washing in baptisme some one kinde of tongue tone tune gesture in singing Preaching Praying others another which is all I meant in my first and second Queries by the manners and customes of the people which my deare Brother mis-interprets as meant of their superstitious and corrupt customes not their civill which I onely intended Some one forme of Temples Churches Tables Pulpits Chalices Vestments others another and all Nations not having the selfe-same opinion judgement of the lawfulnes or conveniency of one sort of Church-government as of another I conceive there was a kinde of necessity under the Gospel of leaving divets things in Church-government and Discipline more indeffinite and arbittary then under the Leviticall Law given onely to the Iewish Nation and that not for perperuity but till the Gospel came which see them free from that yoake of bondage and left them and all other beleevers at greater liberty than before This I conceive to be the true reason why there is no such precise universall set forme of Church-government and Discipline punctually prese●bed without the least variation to all Nations Churches in the New Testament as you say was to the Israelites in the old 6ly The Government and Discipline of the Churches of Christ hath bin alwayes more or lesse variable in every age and never continued uniforme constant unalterable in any age as the fundamentall Doctrines of the Church have done We are able to produce Professors of the Doctrines maintained in the Protestant Churches in all ages the Doctrine of the Gospel being universally the same and unalterable But no creature is able to demonstrate a succession of any one kind of Church-government discipline in all ages or Churches be it Presbyteriall Episcopall or mixt of both much lesse any series of Independent Churches Therefore certainly there is no such universall divine set forme of Church-government and Discipline essentiall to the being of a true Church prescribed in the Scriptures as some have fancied for then it would have had a being in some part or other of the world in all ages as well as the Doctrine of the Gospel and the Sacraments 7ly All Independents reach that there is no set forme of publick Prayer Liturgy preaching administring the sacrament in every particular nor yet of the matter or fashion of Churches Tables Chancels Vestments Gestures of Worship prescribed to all Churches Nations in all ages without variation yea they reject all set formes of publike Prayers administration of the Sacraments and Liturgies in Churches as Antichristian unlawfull or unexpedient at the least though they can hardly prove them such If then there be no set forme of publique Prayers Liturgy Preaching administring the Sacraments c. prescribed to all Churches in al ages without any variation and every Minister be 〈◊〉 at large to use his owne Method and manner of Praying Preaching administring the Sacraments Chatechising as Independents affirme provided it be generally consonant to the word Let them render me a solid reason if they can why there should be only one universall unalterable divineforme of Church-Government and Discipline precisely imposed on all Churches Nations ages alike without the least variation else they must of necessity grant as great a liberty and indefinitenes in the one as other and that there may be as many different formes of Church-Government and Discipline as of preaching praying Singing of Psalmes administring the Sacraments c. provided they be all decent agreeable to the generall rules of Scripture though not particularly prescribed therin 8ly All grant there is no immutable universall set forme of Civill Government prescribed to all Nations Republickes Cities Families Christian or Ethenicall 〈◊〉 they have a

no collections when I come and the very words import Therefore it can be no president for an ordinary constant unalterable universall Church-government and discipline established in all Churches 5ly Which takes of all and turnes its edg against my Brother It is must be confessed that this is no binding precept nor president in point of collections themselves much lesse then in other things For 〈◊〉 demand of my Brother 1. Whether this text did simply bind all the Corinthians to a weekely preparatory contribution towards the poore Brethrens necessities that were in Jerusalem so as they might not deny or vary from it it being rather a bare advise then a peremptory precept a meere voluntary charitable action as is cleare by comparing it with Act. 13 28. 29. 30. Rom. 15. 25. 26. 2 Cor. 8. 9. 1. to 15. especially v. 7. Every man according as he hath purposed in his heart so let him give not grudgingly as of necessity for God loveth a cheareful giver 2. Whether they were necessarily tied to make privat contributions only on the first day of the week no other or had they not a liberty notwithstanding this order to do it on any other week day as wel as on the first or every day or every fortnight or 10. dayes if they pleased as their particular occasions and conditions administred abillity or opportunity for such a charitable worke 3ly Whether this prescript forme of collection admitting it obligatory during this occasion did bind any Church but this of Corinth and those of Galatia only or whether it obliged all other Churches then or simply binds all Churches now to this forme of preparatory or privat contributions or not If you say no then you yeeld the cause since this president binds no Churches now to any punctuall imitation Therefore it is no proofe at all for any one divine universall unvariable forme of Church-government and discipline in all ages prescribed by Scripture If you say yea then all Christians Congregations in the world your Independent to offend against this the Apostles divine institution in not retaining this form of privat collections by segregating something for the use of the poore Sai●ts on every Lords day or weekly in suffering publique gatherings for the poore in Churches on Lecture dayes or week-day fasts whereas these were no such collections but only laying somthing up in private by way of preparatory Charity against the Apostles comming who would then receive every mans particular Charity by itselfe and not trouble them with any publike collections In one word No Churches nor Independent Congregations hold themselves strictly obliged to this forme of collection which was not publique but private every man by himselfe but all hould they may with safe conscience vary from it Therefore if this collection be a part of Church-government or Discipline under the Gospell as you make it this Government Disciplin is both mutable and arbitrable in this particular and so by consequence in others to as occasions and conditions of the Church do vary Your third Text of Acts 14. 23. When they had ordained them Elders in every Church proves nothing for what you alledge it For first it extends not to all Churches then planted in the World but onely to every Church in Derbie Lystra Iconium Antioch to which every Church relates as is cleare by comparing it with the three preceding and following verses whence the Argument from this Text can be but this The Apostles ordained Elders in every Church at Derbe Lystra Iconium and Antioch and so in every City in Creete Tit. 1. 5. Ergo in all Churches throughout the world Which is no infallible inference They might do it in all or most Cities where the Congregations were great yet not in Villages or lesser places where the number of Beleevers was but small Secondly This proues there were Elders ordained by the Apostles in many if not most Churches But yet it concludes not infallibly that there must of necessity bee Elders ordained by those who are no Apostles in all Churches There were such Elders then Ergo there must of necessity be such now in every Church unlesse there be a direct precept enjoyning them for perpetuity is no infallible Argument Thirdly Admit it generall and binding unto all yet this proves onely that there ought by Apostolicall president and institution to be Elders not one but more in all Churches what then becomes of some of your Independent Churches which have none as Master Simsons had none in Holland and as no new Independent Churches in or about London had when they were first gathered These certainly were no true Churches of Christ by this rule because they wanted Elders Fourthly This Text speakes onely in the generall that they ordained Elders in every Church But what sort of Elders they were Ruling or Preaching Elders onely or such who did both Rule and Preach or in what manner they were ordained whether by lifting up of hands onely to chuse them and no more or by laying hands upon them or by the Apostles owne imposition of hands only as Apostles or joyning with others as ordinary Ministers or in any other form is not expressed So that this Text onely informes us that there were Elders ordained in every Church but determines nothing of their office or in what manner or form they were ordained Therefore it concludes nothing for any exact compleat unalterable universall forme of Church-government in all particulars prescribed to all Churches ordaining of Elders being onely one part of Church-government not the whol no part of Discipline that left very indefinitely in respect of the manner and forme which the Scripture hath not by any direct precept or president reduced to an unalterable certainty but rather left Arbitrary and indefinite as will appeare by comparing Num. 8. 10. Acts 1 23. 24. 25. 26. c. 6. 5. 6. c. 14. 23. 1 Cor. 4. 14. c. 5. 17. 22. 2 Tim. 1. 6. 1 Tim. 4. 14. Tit. 1. 5. It being a great Controversie at this day whether imposition of hands be now simply necessary in the ordination of Presbyters Deacons or Lay-Elders or whether it be but an arbitrary ceremony which may be omitted without prejudice if there be cause whether it belonged to the Apostles onely as Apostles or as Presbyters whether it be appropriated to Preaching Elders onely as such or to ruling Elders as well as they or to the whol Church or Congregation and such as they shall appoint Or to Arch-bishops and Bishops only as such as many held of late though now that question is out of date So as neither of these Texts in severall nor any nor all three of them conjoyned prove any such conclusion or universall set forme of Church-government and Discipline for all Churches as is pretended My Brothers 4. Objection is The every particular Congregation is a compleate intire absolute spirituall Republike Corporation Body and City of God of it self

GHOST and Vs to lay upon you no other burthen then these necessary things Now Brother we challenge you to shew us ANY PARLIAMENT COVNCELL SYNOD EVER SINCE THE APOSTLES that could or can say thus It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and Vs to determine controversies of Religion to make and impose Lawes to bind all men c. Shew this to us at this time and we will obey But if you cannot AS YOV NEVER CAN never let any man presse upon us that Scripture that Synod WHICH HATH NO PARALELL in the whole world and so is NO PRESIDENT PATTERNE FOR ANY COVNCELL SYNOD PARLIAMENT Thus my Brother Burton concludes hence with abundance of confidence But sweet Brother let not him who putteth on his harnesse boast as he that puts it off receive your Answer first and then be as vainly confident as you will 〈◊〉 your obtuse Argument afterwards which I shall thus retort upon you First I suppose you will grant That the Apostles Preached as well a writ and determined by an infallible spirit and by the Holy Ghosts Divine inspiration when as neither your self nor any other Independent nor Presbiterial● Minister can infallibly thus Preach write or determine at this day Ergo Brother by your Argument neither you nor any other Minister must henceforth Preach unto nor determine any Controversies of Religion or Church-government at this day being not guided by any infallible Spirit and because you may possibly erre and cannot say as the Apostles did it seemes good to the Holy Ghost and to us and then Brother of what value are all your Sermons Books and confident asseverations of the Divinity of your Independent way your Disciples and congregation may make wast paper of them instead of reading them as the Oracles of God a some ignorants perchance esteem them 2. Christ and his Apostle when they ordained Elders and laid their hands upon them did usually give them the holy Ghost and gift of tongues who fel upon the parties ordained and those to whom they Preached and to those whom they Baptized as the marginall texts assure us which no Ministers nor Elders can do now Ergo no Ministers may or can now ordain any Ministers by imposition of hands nor baptize any children or men nor preach the Gospel to any because they cannot give them the gifts of Tongues nor cause the Holy Ghost to fall upon them as Christ and the Apostles did 3. Moses gave no civill nor judiciall Laws to the Israelites under the Law but such as he received immediately from God by an infallible Spirit Ergo Kings and Parliaments at this day can make no civill temporall Lawes to governe their people by because they receive them not immediately from God by an infallible spirit 4. Christ sent none to Preach the Gospel or administer the Sacraments but such whom himself immediatly called ordained furnished miraculously with gifts of tongues and with the Holy Ghost A priviledge peculier to the Apostles and some few others in their daies not communicable to any ordinary Ministers and made Elders and Bishops by the Holy Ghost Ergo No Ministers but such who are thus immediately enabled endued and ordained by the Holy Ghost may or ought to preach the Gospel And then where are all your Independent Ministers and Lay-preachers I hope Brother by this time you most renounce your Argument as absurd or else your Preaching Church Ministery at least your writings will be little valued which now you see are not infallible 2. A possibility of erring or some actuall errours in Councells Synods Parliaments are no good grounds of rejecting all their determinations Lawes Edicts but only such as are apparently erronious and repugnant to the Scripture Such indeed you may disobey but to all others you must submit even in point of conscience as I have formerly proved If you deny this then marke the consequence of your deniall Ministers may and sometimes actually doe erre both in their preaching and writing and I doubt Brother it is or may be your own case Ergo people must neither obey nor believe any thing they preach or write but contemne all Parliaments Princes Magistrates Elders Parents Masters Tutors of all sorts may and oft-times actually doe swerve from truth and Iustice in some of their Lawes Orders Precepts commands and Iudgements Ergo their subjects wives children husbands schollars pupills must receive no Lawes Orders Commands or instructions from them nor yet obey them in any thing which they shall prescribe Brother you may as rationally argue in many things we offend all Ergo we must not endeavour to doe any thing that is good Or conclude in many things and in making Lawes we erre all Therefore we must obey no humane Ecclesiasticall or civill Laws in which we can discern no apparent error Brother will you drink no wine at all as the Apostle gives Timothy advise to do because some have dranke poyson in it and you perchance may doe so to Or shall none adventure to marry a good wife or husband because so many have met with bad Answer me these questions and then you need no other answer to what you object but your own reply to them 3. Admit Synods Councells Parliaments have sometimes erred out of humane frailty yet this is a most certaine truth that they are not so apt or prone to erre having more helpes meanes assistances to keep them from erring when they are met together in the Name and feare of God as private men or Conventi●les of persons lesse learned lesse experienced they being more able to discover and bolt out truthes by debate then they This is the ground why Solomon concludes That two are better then on● that in the multitude of Councellors there is safety why the greatest points of Religion and State have in all ages been debated resolved not in Conclaves Conventicles Chambers Closets but in generall or nationall Councell● Assemblies Parliaments as the most effectuall meanes to discover suppresse errours heresies and resolve doubts for which we have an unanswerable pregnant president in the Old Testament 2 Chron. 30. 1. to the end where King Hezechiah with all the Princes and Congregation of Israel and Iudah assembled in full Parliament at Ierusalem upon solemn debate resolved AND ESTABLISHED A DECREE to keep the Passeover in the second moneth because they could not keepe it in the first the Priests and people being not sufficiently sanctified And another in the New in the Chapter objected Acts 15. where the Apostles themselves assemble a full Synod to debate and resolve the great contr●versie raised in the Church concerning the necessity of Circumcision This then being an indubitable Verity it is most certaine that Parliaments Generall or Nationall Synods and Councells are the fittest of all others to make Lawes and Canons for all civill and Ecclesiasticall matters in State or Church because they are least subject to errour And therefore there is great