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A86931 A plea for Christian magistracie: or, An answer to some passages in Mr. Gillespies sermon, against Mr. Coleman. As also to the brotherly examination of some passages of Mr. Colemans late printed sermon, upon Job 11.20. In which the reverend and learned commissioner affirmeth, he hath endeavoured to strike at the root of all church government. VVherein the argumentative part of the controversie is calmely and mildly, without any personall reflections, prosecuted. / By William Hussey, minister of the Gospell, at Chesilhurst in Kent. Hussey, William, minister of Chiselhurst. 1645 (1645) Wing H3819; Thomason E313_7; ESTC R200474 46,951 61

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but such as by force can put his judgements in execution he only is a magistrate Mr. Coleman sayth Church government distinct from civill maketh an irreconcilable difference betweene the Minister and the Magistrate as two governments must needs do Mr. Gillespie supposeth two governments must needs be and then chideth with the argument and with Mr. Coleman but letteth it alone without an answer But Mr. Gillespie falleth upon an argument against government committed to Ministers taken from feare of ambition and here he spendeth many words about the words which Mr. Coleman alludeth only unto which I will not trouble my Reader withall that Mr. Coleman in plaine tearmes aimeth at is ambition is to be feared in Ministers and sheweth what great contestation hath been for this censure of the Church that some have preferred it before all acts of piety and have ambitiously endeavoured that all should passe through their fingers and that this censure hath plunged the world in blood this many hundred years Mr. Gillespies answer to the matter of ambition is only by involving the Civill Magistrate in the same danger of ambition Now is this a good argument government is necessary but he that is imployed therein hath great temptations to ambition therefore the Ministers of the word must be ensnared in the like temptation that they may both contest one with another and so imbroile the world in bloud as the Popes have done or else both joyne together to enthrall the people as the Bishops in the Courts of Princes and not rather in regard that government doth naturally lift up the heart of man and therefore Ministers have the name of servants and Lordship and Dominion over the slocke denied them in Scripture to keep them from the like temptation that they may the more freely from God warn them that are in authority that they take heed of that temptation I am confident if this Assembly had stooke close to their commission which they received from Christ which was to preach the Gospell and spent themselves wholly in matters of doctrine and told the Lords of the duty of their place to doe justice in Parliament without respect of persons and put the Commons in mind of all their wholesome Ordinances that they looke to carefull performance of them without turning their thoughts after government the Reformation had gone on much faster and more comfortable then it hath Mr. Coleman saith That Church government hath disquieted all the world in the hand of the Pope and his Clergy in the hand of the Archbishop of Canterbury Mr. Gillespie telleth him That these stories are not a little beside the warke he should have told what hurt is had done in France in Holland in Scotland in Reformed Churches I answer it was the same censure that raised the Pope so high but it grew not to that height in one age a young Lion will not bite and you boast that your Churches are according to Primitive times well what they will come to after times will see we are beholding to the Presbytery for throwing downe the Bishops if they cast away their ambition with them and take Mr. Colemans advice and set up Schooles of Divinity and move the Parliament for due encouragement you shall then appeare to be men seeking the things of Christ and not your own but of this more by and by A word or two about that place 1 Tim. 5.17 the Elder that ruleth well is worthy double honour from hence two sorts of Elders are proved an Elder that ruleth well he that laboureth in word doctrine here two Elders are mentioned but the difference whether officiall or personall is very doubtfull one office may comprehend both these duties and the comparison may lye in their personall excellencies one may excell in the governing part of the office and the other person in the doctrinall part one may heare the causes and differences of his brethren well and yet be but a dull preacher another may preach excellent well and yet be an unpatient and peevish judge or not to countenance your Ecclesiasticall government so farre the Scripture hath these effects it is profitable for doctrine reproofe correction instruction one Ministers excellencie may lye in labouring in doctrine and instruction and this may be his that laboured in word and doctrine he that reproveth and correcteth may be said to rule and then there is no place for your Lay-elders but if this place doe set up your Lay-elder and the difference is in two distinct offices that here is an Elder that doth governe and doth not preach then preaching and governing be the differences and differences be convertable with their subjects so that if one doe governe and not preach the other must preach and not governe and this agreeth plainly with the 1 Pet. 5.3 not as governing the flock 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nique ut dominautes not as Lords for my part I know not how Lordship and government doth differ one from another dominus and dominari 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be denominatives he that governeth is a Lord and he that is a Lord governeth to imagine that ambition and pride injury and oppression or any such vice did necessarily belong to a Lord is very injurious unto the very title and honour of a Lord. That more reckoning hath been made of this dominion then acts of piety to this Mr. Gillespie seemeth to adhere that all the rest is worth nothing without this further occasion will be given to speake of these things Mr. Coleman doth desire doctrine and wisheth the Civill Magistrate to take Government Doctrine is committed to the Ministers of the word by Commission from Christ Mat. 28. and that Commission is to last to the end of the world this Mr. Coleman had reason to challenge as due from Christ not the Church but to the Ministers of the word the Church hath no where power to preach the Gospell but the Apostles and their successors unto the end of the world and therefore as before he had implied that the preaching of the Gospel would take up the whole man especially in our time our knowledge of the Scriptures is to be acquired by ordinary means tongues for the language exercise and art for the argument that the word might be preached in the demonstration and argument of the Scripture and not in the enticing words of mens wisdome well might Mr. Coleman call for Schools of Divinity that there might be unity found among the Preachers of the Gospell nothing more conducing to unity then the continuall exercise in Schooles the very people complaine women and such as are well minded why do not you Ministers meet and dispute it out among your selves one teacheth one thing and another another thing and we are much troubled and disquieted by it there is use of Schooles or otherwise it would never be set up in Universities Paul disputed daily in the Schoole of one Tyrannus Mr. Coleman