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scripture_n apostle_n church_n true_a 7,658 5 5.2374 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A69535 The grand debate between the most reverend bishops and the Presbyterian divines appointed by His Sacred Majesty as commissioners for the review and alteration of the Book of common prayer, &c. : being an exact account of their whole proceedings : the most perfect copy. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.; Commission for the Review and Alteration of the Book of Common Prayer. 1661 (1661) Wing B1278A; Wing E3841; ESTC R7198 132,164 165

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the_o contrary_a than_o you_o have_v here_o give_v we_o for_o what_o you_o thus_o affirm_v we_o may_v set_v epiphanius_n against_o augustine_n and_o all_o the_o greek_a church_n till_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o chrysostom_n time_n when_o they_o change_v their_o opinion_n and_o in_o our_o time_n the_o judgement_n of_o the_o famous_a chronologer_n scaliger_n beroaldus_n broughton_n capellus_n clopenburgius_n with_o many_o other_o be_v not_o contemptible_a as_o set_v against_o such_o a_o unproved_a assertion_n as_o this_o sect._n 8._o that_o our_o sinful_a body_n etc._n etc._n it_o can_v no_o more_o be_v say_v those_o word_n do_v give_v great_a efficacy_n to_o the_o blood_n then_o to_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n then_o when_o our_o lord_n say_v this_o be_v my_o blood_n which_o be_v shed_v for_o you_o and_o for_o many_o for_o the_o remission_n of_o sin_n etc._n etc._n and_o say_v not_o so_o explicit_o of_o the_o body_n reply_n sure_a christ_n there_o intimate_v no_o such_o distinction_n as_o be_v here_o intimate_v there_o his_o body_n be_v say_v to_o be_v break_a for_o we_o and_o not_o only_o for_o our_o body_n sect._n 9_o 20._o com._n kneel_v it_o be_v most_o requisite_a that_o the_o minister_n deliver_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o every_o particular_a communicant_n band_n and_o repeat_v the_o word_n in_o the_o singular_a number_n for_o so_o much_o as_o it_o be_v the_o propriety_n of_o sacrament_n to_o make_v particular_a obsignation_n to_o each_o believer_n and_o it_o be_v our_o visible_a profession_n that_o by_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n christ_n taste_v death_n for_o every_o man_n reply_n 1._o do_v not_o christ_n know_v the_o propriety_n of_o sacrament_n better_o than_o we_o and_o yet_o he_o deliver_v it_o in_o the_o plural_a number_n to_o all_o at_o once_o with_o a_o take_v you_o eat_v you_o drink_v you_o all_o of_o it_o we_o have_v rather_o study_v to_o be_v obedient_a to_o our_o master_n than_o to_o be_v wise_a than_o he_o 2._o as_o god_n make_v the_o general_a offer_n which_o give_v to_o no_o man_n a_o personal_a interest_n till_o his_o own_o acceptance_n first_o appropriate_v it_o so_o it_o be_v fit_a that_o the_o minister_n that_o be_v god_n agent_n imitate_v he_o when_o his_o example_n and_o the_o reason_n of_o it_o so_o concern_v to_o engage_v we_o to_o it_o clemens_n alexandr_n stromat_n lib._n 1._o prope_fw-la in_o it_o give_v a_o reason_n as_o we_o understand_v he_o for_o the_o contrary_a that_o man_n be_v a_o free_a agent_n must_v be_v the_o chooser_n or_o refuser_n for_o himself_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d quemadmodum_fw-la eucharistiam_fw-la cum_fw-la quidam_fw-la ut_fw-la mos_fw-la est_fw-la diviserint_fw-la permittunt_fw-la unicuique_fw-la ex_fw-la populo_fw-la ejus_fw-la partem_fw-la sumere_fw-la and_o after_o render_v this_o reason_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d ad_fw-la accuratè_fw-la enim_fw-la perfecteque_fw-la eligendum_fw-la ac_fw-la fugiendum_fw-la optima_fw-la est_fw-la conscientia_fw-la and_o that_o thing_n be_v so_o agreeable_a to_o your_o own_o doctrinal_a principle_n that_o we_o fear_v you_o dis-relish_a it_o because_o it_o come_v from_o we_o sect._n 10._o kneel_v at_o sacra_fw-la concern_v kneel_v at_o the_o sacrament_n we_o have_v give_v account_n already_o only_o thus_o much_o we_o add_v that_o we_o conceive_v it_o a_o error_n to_o say_v that_o the_o scripture_n affirm_v the_o apostle_n to_o have_v receive_v not-kneeling_a the_o posture_n of_o the_o paschal_n supper_n we_o know_v but_o the_o institution_n of_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n be_v after_o supper_n and_o what_o posture_n be_v then_o use_v the_o scripture_n be_v silent_a the_o rubr._n at_o the_o end_n of_o the_o 1._o ed._n c._n that_o leave_v kneel_v cross_v etc._n etc._n indifferent_a be_v mean_v only_o at_o such_o time_n as_o they_o be_v not_o prescribe_v and_o require_v but_o at_o the_o eucharist_n kneel_v be_v express_o require_v in_o the_o rubr._n follow_v reply_n doubtless_o when_o matthew_n and_o mark_n say_v it_o be_v as_o they_o do_v eat_v to_o which_o before_o it_o be_v say_v that_o they_o sit_v down_o and_o when_o interpreter_n general_o agree_v upon_o it_o this_o will_v easy_o have_v satisfy_v you_o if_o you_o have_v be_v as_o willing_a to_o believe_v it_o as_o to_o believe_v the_o contrary_n matth._n 26._o 20_o 21_o 26._o the_o same_o phrase_n be_v use_v v._n 26._o as_o in_o vers_n 21._o where_o it_o show_v they_o be_v still_o sit_v for_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o rubr._n if_o you_o prove_v that_o the_o maker_n so_o interpret_v it_o we_o shall_v not_o deny_v it_o but_o the_o reason_n of_o both_o seem_v the_o same_o sect._n 11._o com._n three_o time_n a_o year_n this_o desire_n to_o have_v the_o parishioner_n at_o liberty_n whether_o they_o will_v ever_o receive_v the_o communion_n or_o not_o savour_v of_o too_o much_o neglect_n and_o coldness_n of_o affection_n towards_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n it_o be_v more_o fit_v that_o order_n shall_v be_v take_v to_o bring_v it_o into_o more_o frequent_a use_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o first_o and_o best_a time_n our_o rubr._n be_v direct_o according_a to_o the_o ancient_a council_n of_o eliberis_n c._n 81._o gratian._n de_fw-fr consecrat_fw-mi no_o man_n be_v to_o be_v account_v a_o good_a catholic_n christian_n that_o do_v not_o receive_v three_o time_n in_o the_o year_n the_o distemper_n which_o indispose_v man_n to_o it_o must_v be_v correct_v not_o the_o receive_n of_o the_o sacrament_n therefore_o omit_v it_o 8._o be_v a_o pitiful_a pretence_n to_o say_v they_o be_v not_o fit_a and_o make_v their_o sin_n their_o excuse_n former_o our_o church_n be_v quarrel_v at_o for_o not_o compel_v man_n to_o the_o communion_n now_o for_o urge_v man_n how_o shall_v she_o please_v reply_n we_o confess_v it_o be_v desirable_a that_o all_o our_o distemper_n and_o unfitness_n shall_v be_v heal_v and_o we_o desire_v with_o you_o that_o sacrament_n may_v be_v often_o but_o that_o every_o person_n in_o the_o parish_n that_o be_v unfit_a be_v force_v to_o receive_v be_v that_o which_o we_o can_v concur_v with_o you_o to_o be_v guilty_a of_o two_o sort_n we_o think_v unfit_a to_o be_v so_o force_v at_o least_o first_o abundance_n of_o people_n gross_o ignorant_a and_o scandalous_a that_o will_v eat_v and_o drink_v judgement_n to_o themselves_o not_o discern_v the_o lord_n body_n second_o many_o melancholy_n and_o otherwise_o trouble_v doubt_v soul_n that_o if_o they_o shall_v receive_v the_o sacrament_n before_o they_o find_v themselves_o more_o fit_a will_v be_v in_o danger_n to_o go_v out_o of_o their_o wit_n with_o fear_n lest_o it_o will_v seal_v they_o to_o destruction_n and_o as_o the_o liturgy_n say_v lest_o the_o devil_n enter_v into_o they_o as_o into_o judas_n or_o at_o least_o it_o will_v grievous_o deject_v they_o as_o former_o so_o now_o there_o be_v great_a reason_n at_o once_o to_o desire_v that_o the_o unprepared_a be_v not_o force_v to_o the_o sacrament_n and_o yet_o that_o so_o great_a a_o part_n of_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n may_v not_o be_v let_v alone_o in_o your_o communion_n without_o due_a admonition_n and_o discipline_n that_o ordinary_o neglect_v or_o refuse_v the_o church_n communion_n in_o this_o sacrament_n those_o that_o be_v so_o profane_a shall_v be_v keep_v away_o but_o withal_o they_o shall_v be_v proceed_v with_o by_o discipline_n till_o they_o repent_v or_o be_v cast_v out_o of_o the_o church_n sect._n 12._o this_o rubr._n be_v not_o in_o the_o liturgy_n of_o queen_n elizabeth_n nor_o confirm_v by_o law_n nor_o be_v there_o any_o great_a need_n of_o restore_v it_o the_o world_n be_v now_o in_o more_o danger_n of_o profanation_n then_o of_o idolatry_n beside_o the_o sense_n of_o it_o be_v declare_v sufficient_o in_o the_o 28._o article_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n the_o time_n appoint_v we_o conceive_v sufficient_a reply_n can_v there_o be_v any_o hurt_n or_o danger_n in_o the_o people_n be_v teach_v to_o understand_v the_o church_n aright_o have_v not_o bishop_n hall_n teach_v you_o in_o his_o life_n of_o a_o romanist_n that_o will_v have_v face_v he_o down_o that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v for_o transubstantiation_n because_o of_o kneel_v p._n 20._o and_o the_o same_o bishop_n great_o differ_v from_o you_o say_v in_o the_o same_o book_n p_o 294._o but_o to_o put_v all_o scruple_n out_o of_o the_o mind_n of_o any_o reader_n concern_v this_o point_n let_v that_o serve_v for_o the_o upshot_n of_o all_o which_o be_v express_o set_v down_o in_o the_o five_o rubric_n in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o communion_n set_v forth_o as_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n both_o in_o king_n edward_n and_o queen_n elizabeth_n time_n note_n that_o though_o late_o upon_o negligence_n note_n upon_o negligence_n omit_v in_o the_o impression_n and_o so_o recite_v the_o word_n where_o you_o say_v there_o be_v no_o great_a need_n
the_o reserve_v of_o confirmation_n to_o the_o bishop_n do_v argue_v the_o dignity_n of_o the_o bishop_n above_o presbyter_n who_o be_v not_o allow_v to_o confirm_v but_o do_v not_o argue_v any_o excellency_n in_o confirmation_n above_o the_o sacrament_n st._n hierom_n argue_v the_o quite_o contrary_n ad_fw-la lucif_n cap._n 4._o that_o because_o baptism_n be_v allow_v to_o be_v perform_v by_o a_o deacon_n but_o confirmation_n only_o by_o a_o bishop_n therefore_o baptism_n be_v most_o necessary_a and_o of_o the_o great_a value_n the_o mercy_n of_o god_n allow_v the_o most_o necessary_a mean_n of_o salvation_n to_o be_v administer_v by_o inferior_a order_n and_o restrain_v the_o less_o necessary_a to_o the_o high_a for_o the_o honour_n of_o their_o order_n reply_n o_o that_o we_o have_v the_o primitive_a episcopacy_n and_o that_o bishop_n have_v no_o more_o church_n to_o oversee_v than_o in_o the_o primitive_a time_n they_o have_v and_o then_o we_o will_v never_o speak_v against_o this_o reservation_n of_o confirmation_n to_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o bishop_n but_o when_o that_o bishop_n of_o one_o church_n be_v turn_v into_o that_o bishop_n of_o many_o hundred_o church_n and_o when_o he_o be_v now_o a_o bishop_n of_o the_o low_a rank_n that_o be_v a_o archbishop_n when_o archbishop_n first_o come_v up_o and_o so_o we_o have_v not_o real_o existent_a any_o mere_a bishop_n such_o as_o the_o ancient_n know_v at_o all_o but_o only_a archbishop_n and_o their_o curate_n marvel_v not_o if_o we_o will_v not_o have_v confirmation_n proper_a to_o archbishop_n nor_o one_o man_n undertake_v more_o than_o a_o hundred_o can_v perform_v but_o if_o you_o will_v do_v it_o there_o be_v no_o remedy_n we_o have_v acquit_v ourselves_o prayer_n after_o the_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v ground_v upon_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o 1._o apostle_n heb._n 6._o 2._o &_o act_v 8._o 17._o nor_o do_v 25._o article_n say_v that_o confirmation_n be_v a_o corrupt_a imitation_n of_o the_o apostle_n practice_n but_o that_o the_o 5._o common_o call_v sacrament_n have_v ground_n partly_o on_o the_o corrupt_a follow_v the_o apostle_n etc._n etc._n which_o may_v be_v apply_v to_o some_o other_o of_o those_o 5_o but_o can_v be_v apply_v to_o confirmation_n unless_o we_o make_v the_o church_n speak_v contradiction_n reply_n but_o the_o question_n be_v not_o of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n in_o general_a but_o this_o imposition_n in_o particular_a and_o you_o have_v never_o prove_v that_o this_o sort_n of_o imposition_n call_v confirmation_n be_v mention_v in_o those_o text_n and_o the_o 25._o article_n can_v more_o probable_o be_v think_v to_o speak_v of_o any_o one_o of_o the_o 5._o as_o proceed_v from_o the_o corrupt_a imitation_n of_o the_o apostle_n than_o of_o confirmation_n as_o a_o suppose_a sacrament_n we_o know_v no_o harm_n in_o speak_v the_o language_n of_o holy_a scripture_n act_v 8._o 15._o 2._o they_o lay_v their_o hand_n upon_o they_o and_o they_o receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o though_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o a_o sacrament_n yet_o it_o be_v a_o very_a fit_a sign_n to_o certify_v the_o person_n what_o be_v then_o do_v for_o they_o as_o the_o prayer_n speak_v reply_n it_o be_v fit_a to_o speak_v the_o scripture_n language_n in_o scripture_n sense_n but_o if_o those_o that_o have_v no_o such_o power_n to_o give_v the_o holy_a ghost_n will_v say_v receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n it_o be_v better_o for_o they_o to_o abuse_v other_o language_n than_o scripture_n language_n after_o confirmation_n there_o be_v no_o inconvenience_n that_o confirmation_n shall_v be_v require_v before_o the_o 8._o communion_n when_o it_o may_v be_v ordinary_o obtain_v that_o which_o you_o here_o fault_n you_o elsewhere_o desire_v reply_n we_o desire_v that_o the_o credible_a approve_a profession_n of_o faith_n and_o repentance_n be_v make_v necessary_n but_o not_o that_o all_o the_o thousand_o in_o england_n that_o never_o yet_o come_v under_o the_o bishop_n hand_n as_o not_o one_o of_o many_o ever_o do_v even_o when_o they_o be_v at_o the_o high_a may_v be_v keep_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n for_o some_o can_v have_v that_o imposition_n and_o other_o will_v not_o that_o yet_o be_v fit_a for_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n the_o ring_n be_v a_o significant_a sign_n only_o of_o humane_a institution_n and_o be_v always_o 31._o give_v as_o a_o pledge_n of_o fidelity_n and_o constant_a love_n and_o here_o be_v no_o reason_n give_v why_o it_o shall_v be_v take_v away_o nor_o be_v the_o reason_n mention_v in_o the_o roman_a ritualits_n give_a in_o our_o common-prayer-book_n repl._n we_o crave_v not_o your_o own_o forbearance_n of_o the_o ring_n but_o the_o indifferency_n in_o our_o use_n of_o a_o thing_n so_o misuse_v and_o unnecessary_a these_o word_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o father_n son_n and_o holy_a ghost_n if_o they_o seem_v to_o make_v matrimony_n a_o sacrament_n may_v as_o well_o make_v all_o sacred_a yea_o civil_a action_n 1._o of_o weight_n to_o be_v sacrament_n they_o be_v usual_a at_o the_o beginning_n and_o end_v of_o all_o such_o it_o be_v never_o hear_v before_o now_o that_o those_o word_n make_v a_o sacrament_n reply_n be_v there_o no_o force_n in_o a_o argument_n draw_v from_o the_o appearance_n of_o evil_n the_o offence_n and_o the_o danger_n of_o abuse_n when_o other_o word_n enough_o may_v serve_v turn_n they_o go_v to_o the_o lord_n table_n because_o the_o communion_n be_v to_o follow_v reply_n they_o must_v go_v to_o the_o table_n whether_o there_o be_v a_o communion_n 3_o or_o not_o consecrate_a the_o estate_n of_o matrimony_n to_o such_o a_o excellent_a mystery_n etc._n etc._n though_o the_o institution_n of_o marriage_n be_v before_o the_o fall_n yet_o it_o may_v be_v now_o and_o col._n be_v consecrate_v by_o god_n to_o such_o a_o excellent_a mystery_n as_o the_o representation_n of_o the_o spiritual_a marriage_n between_o christ_n and_o his_o church_n eph._n 5._o 23._o we_o be_v sorry_a that_o the_o word_n of_o scripture_n will_v not_o please_v the_o church_n in_o the_o 25._o article_n have_v take_v away_o the_o fear_n of_o make_v it_o for_o a_o sacrament_n reply_n when_o be_v marriage_n thus_o consecrate_v if_o all_o thing_n use_v to_o set_v forth_o christ_n office_n or_o benefit_n by_o way_n of_o similitude_n be_v consecrate_v then_o a_o judge_n a_o father_n a_o friend_n a_o vine_n a_o door_n a_o way_n etc._n etc._n be_v all_o consecrate_a thing_n scripture_n phrase_n please_v we_o in_o scripture_n sense_n the_o new_a marry_a person_n the_o same_o day_n of_o their_o marriage_n must_v receive_v the_o 18._o holy_a communion_n this_o enforce_v none_o to_o forbear_v marriage_n but_o presume_v as_o well_o it_o may_v that_o all_o person_n marriageable_a ought_v to_o be_v also_o fit_a to_o receive_v the_o holy_a sacrament_n and_o marriage_n be_v so_o solemn_a a_o covenant_n of_o god_n they_o that_o undertake_v it_o in_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n will_v not_o stick_v to_o seal_v it_o by_o receive_v the_o holy_a communion_n and_o according_o prepare_v themselves_o for_o it_o be_v be_v more_o christian_a to_o desire_v that_o those_o licentious_a festivity_n may_v be_v suppress_v and_o the_o communion_n more_o general_o use_v by_o those_o that_o marry_v the_o happiness_n will_v be_v great_a than_o can_v easy_o be_v express_v unde_fw-la sufficiat_fw-la ad_fw-la enarrandum_fw-la felicitatem_fw-la ejus_fw-la matrimonii_fw-la quod_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la conciliat_fw-la &_o confirmat_fw-la oblatio_fw-la tertul._n lib._n 2._o ad_fw-la vxorem_fw-la reply_n indeed_o will_v you_o phrase_n and_o modify_v your_o administration_n upon_o such_o a_o supposition_n that_o all_o man_n be_v such_o as_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v and_o do_v what_o they_o ought_v to_o do_v then_o take_v all_o the_o world_n for_o saint_n and_o use_v they_o according_o and_o blot_v out_o the_o doctrine_n of_o reproof_n excommunication_n and_o damnation_n from_o your_o bibles_n be_v it_o not_o 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to_o the_o minister_n pleasure_n to_o deny_v he_o absolution_n if_o he_o desire_v it_o our_o church_n direction_n be_v according_a to_o the_o 13._o can._n of_o the_o venerable_a council_n of_o nice_a both_o here_o and_o in_o the_o next_o that_o follow_v reply_n but_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o he_o show_v himself_o true_o penitent_a or_o not_o if_o we_o have_v not_o here_o neither_o a_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n for_o the_o conduct_n of_o our_o own_o action_n what_o do_v we_o with_o reason_n why_o be_v we_o trust_v in_o the_o office_n and_o who_o judgement_n must_v we_o follow_v the_o bishop_n can_v have_v leisure_n to_o become_v the_o judge_n whether_o this_o man_n be_v penitent_a it_o must_v then_o be_v the_o minister_n or_o the_o man_n himself_o and_o must_v we_o absolve_v every_o man_n that_o say_v he_o repent_v then_o we_o must_v believe_v a_o incredible_a profession_n which_o be_v against_o reason_n some_o be_v know_v infidel_n and_o in_o their_o health_n profess_v 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again_o with_o the_o catechuman_n this_o show_v they_o then_o take_v not_o up_o with_o every_o word_n of_o seem_a penitence_n as_o true_a repentance_n but_o what_o it_o be_v to_o your_o purpose_n we_o know_v not_o nor_o be_v here_o any_o other_o can._n in_o that_o council_n for_o you_o the_o 11_o can._n be_v sufficient_o against_o you_o the_o lapse_v that_o true_o repent_v be_v to_o remain_v among_o the_o penitent_a for_o three_o year_n and_o seven_o year_n more_o if_o they_o be_v fideles_fw-la etc._n etc._n ab_fw-la omnibus_fw-la vero_fw-la illud_fw-la praecipue_fw-la observetur_fw-la ut_fw-la animus_n eorum_fw-la &_o fructus_fw-la poenitentiae_fw-la attendatur_fw-la quicunque_fw-la enim_fw-la cum_fw-la omni_fw-la timore_fw-la &_o lacrimis_fw-la perseverantibus_fw-la &_o operibus_fw-la bonis_fw-la conversationem_fw-la svam_fw-la non_fw-la verbis_fw-la solis_fw-la sed_fw-la opere_fw-la &_o veritate_fw-la demonstrant_fw-la cum_fw-la tempus_fw-la statutum_fw-la etiam_fw-la ab_fw-la 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among_o the_o learn_a expositor_n how_o much_o of_o that_o of_o john_n 20._o be_v proper_a to_o the_o apostle_n and_o such_o other_o as_o be_v then_o to_o have_v the_o spirit_n in_o a_o extraordinary_a manner_n who_o do_v remit_v sin_n effective_o by_o remit_v the_o punishment_n of_o it_o by_o cast_v out_o devil_n heal_v the_o sick_a etc._n etc._n according_a to_o that_o of_o jam._n 5._o 14_o 15._o be_v any_o sick_a among_o you_o let_v he_o call_v for_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n and_o let_v they_o pray_v for_o he_o and_o anoint_v he_o with_o oil_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o the_o prayer_n of_o faith_n shall_v save_v the_o sick_a and_o the_o lord_n shall_v raise_v he_o up_o and_o if_o he_o have_v commit_v sin_n they_o shall_v be_v forgive_v he_o if_o beside_o this_o remit_v they_o effective_o the_o rest_n be_v no_o other_o than_o a_o ministerial_a pronounce_v they_o forgive_v by_o god_n according_a to_o his_o covenant_n in_o the_o gospel_n than_o you_o can_v 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