Gala. 6.1 2. with many other which I omit The materiall Temple which was but a tipe of this we read to be built from the very foundation of choise costly perfect stones the beames and rafters of choise Ceaders Algummim trees 1. King 5.17 Chap. 6.7 2. Chro. 2.8 Ezra 3.7.12 c. But of the incomparable beauty and unutterable excellency of this spirituall Temple under the holy ministry happy government of Christ it must be such as none may grow nor be planted there untill they be first cut off from their corrupt naturall stock where they grew before and then be grafted into the true oliue tree the true vine yea and being planted and ingrafted that plant that branch that bringeth not forth good fruit but bringeth forth evill fruit apparantly seene and known must be cut of and cast out Rom. 11.17.18.19.20.21 1. Cor. 6.11 Tit. 3.3 c. Rom. 6.4.5.6 c. Math. 3.10 and 7.19 and 15.13 Luk. 13.6 Ioh. 15.6 Math. 18.15.16.17 Rom. 16.17.18 1. Cor. 5.11.12.13 Now shew us your Church to be thus built and thus ordered according to the testament of Christ I doe not meane thus built in perfect maner but that every member of your Church in the plating thereof do in the best of mans discerning according to Godly iudgment in his or their measure hewen fitted and squared for the building before â—e be fastned there into for as the Apostle saith We which liue must no more liue unto our selues but unto the will of him that dyed for us and rose againe Ephe. 4.22.23.24 2 Cor. 5.15.17 1 Pet. 4.3 We must be new creatures for we are the workmanship of God created anew into Christ Iesus unto good works which God hath ordayned that we should walk in them Ephe. 2.10 When you haue proved and shewed us your Church thus framed fashioned and ordered then we wil take a view of those things which you say but you proue not to be therein so sound and substantially taught and administred But if you still boast of those good things in your Church and yet your Church it selfe be built of rough tree or rotten timber hay and stubble or of the thorns and bryers of the wildernes and with such dead or hard stones as cannot be hewen and squared and fastned into the building together according to the heavenly prtterne then is your Church a false Church and deceitfull notwithstanding all your sound and substantiall things therein which things although they be indeed both sound and substantiall of themselues yet will they not keep up your tottering building but in time it will fall and come to naught And this at this time shall serue for answer to your 7 and 8 Demands only thus much more because I would not haue you any more boast or go about to dasell our eyes with the sight of those things which you say are in your Church untill you haue shewed us the true forme and fashion of the building of your Church I will demand of you this one question When the Prophet Haggai chap. 1. reproved the Iewes for that Gods house was not builded among them would it haue been a sufficient answer for them thinke you Sir to haue said to the Prophet thus Wee haue costly and faire sound and substantiall seelings of the sweetest and purest wood costly carved and curiously wrought with many goodly and rich hangings cushings carpets and curtins with so many other costly and sumptuous ornaments and deckings yea all whatsoever according to the appointment of the law for Gods house as for the proportioÌ„ no Countrey in the world can afford the like Nay Sir admit they should also haue said thus And behold also we haue the foundation layd and we haue many expert and excellent builders all of them sound and learned workmen and for instruments also to hew and square the timber and stone we haue so good as non can be better of which timber and stones also we haue so great plenty and so excellent good with all other things necessary to finish the building as for proportioÌ„ no country in the world can afford the like therefore although the stones be neither layd nor squared nor the timber hewed fitted nor framed yet haue we the house of God well builded What think you Sir would this haue been a sufficient answer to haue satisfied the prophet if no consider then how little your vaine boast will stand you in stead in the day of your appearing search the Scriptures and you shall find there that every true visible Church of Christ must consist of a company of people be they many or few that are called out and separated from the froward generation of the world by the Gospell Iohn 15.19 17.6.9.11.14 c. Act. 2.40 2. Cor. 6.15 16.17.18 and ioyned or built together into a holy communion and fellowship among themselues Act. 2.41.44 Ephe. 2.13.19.20.22 all of them being in their measure beleevers pricked in their harts for their sinnes and now laboring together to continue in the Apostles doctrine Act. 2.27.42 Being thus coupled and knit together they are called in the Scripture the Temple of God 1. Cor. 3.16.17 the habitation of God Ephe. 2.22 the Church of God 1. Cor 1.2.2 Cor. 11. unto the which Church he daly addeth those that he will saue Act. 2.41.47 they are then called Saints Rom. 1.7 1. Cor. 1.2 they are called Holy Bretheren Heb. 3.1 they are called the body of Christ and members for their part of the whole building of God Consider what is said c. 2. Tim. 2.7 c. 9 Demand And now to your Counter-Demand which is Whether any new lawes can or ought to be made or inacted or any further reformation made without the christian Princes or Magistrats consent c. 9 Answer I Answer no. And I further ad that whatsoever subiects of what degree or state soever they be that shall go about either to inact any new lawes in the Kings Dominions or to reforme the order and state of the Kingdome contrary to that order which is already established without the consent and lawfull authority of the Prince Magistrate he is by the word of God iudged and condemned worthy of damnation Rom. 13.12 5.6 Rev. 12.18.19 And if for this his or their offence the Prince and Magistrats do put him or them to death as by their lawfull anthority they may it is no more then they haue iustly and worthily deserved for their evill doings The next word in this your 9 Demand are thus set downe and thus odly pointed or ever in a well ordered Church hath bin inacted or made and whether they haue done well to separate without the Kings Maiesties leaue and licence and consent of the state These your refined words as they be in this fashion set downe I doe not well vnderst and 2 therefore I will giue you no other answere then is already made in the former words desiring that this which is heere answered may be
conditions of the most with whom the better sort stand all in the communion and in one order or disorder rather being mingled together all in one brotherhood and that not by personall fayling but by the very constitution and lawes of your Church civill and ecclesiasticall cleane contrary to the revealed will of God in his Word Even you your self Sir that are a leader and professe your selfe to be a guide to the blinde you breake the law of God and defile his holy things you put no difference betweene the holy and prophane neither discerne between the vnclean and the cleane so the Lord is prophaned among you Eze. 22.26 Consider I pray you and compare together these few places of Scripture Mat. 18.1516.17 Rom. 16.17 1. Cor. 5.11.12.13 2 Thes 36.7 c. and then compare this order heere appointed by Christ and his apostles vnto the order of your Church and Parish-assemblies you shall see even by these 5. places of scripture how far you are from that holy order which Christ in his last will and testament hath given and appointed vnto his visible Church to walke in and to practise You compell all that are of your Parish howsoever vnworthie or vnable to pay their offrings and to receiue the communion especially at your holy time of Easter there is the table prepared bread and wine set come that will and welcom Esay 65.11.12 yea if they be dwelling in your Parish and will not pay their offrings and come to the communion daily they are by you presented into your spirituall Courts thither they are summoned if they appeare not obedienly paying their fees clearing the bookes c. they shall be by that Court excommunicated out of your Parish-assemblies and then before they may be admitted againe either to the fore named banquet or to your devine service as you call it their purses must pay deere enough for a blessing or absolution which they must receiue humbly kneeling on their knees before Mas Commissary or Mas Chancellors worship and if they die excōmunicate before they haue received this bounsing blessing they may not be brought into your holy ground to be buried there in christian buriall as you call it vnlesse their friends will first purchase absolution for them If the mould of this came not from Rome then I pray you Sir shew vs where you learned it for in the whole Bible we cannot finde any such spirituall order given or appointed by God vnto his Church 5 Demand Your 5. demand is Whether that in Constantines the first Christian Emperour tyme and ever since vnto M. Iohn Calvins dayes for the space of 13 hundered yeeres there was no Christian Churches in Asia Africke and Europe because they had the same outward constitution formall state Bishops Archbishops Metropolytans and Church government for substance substance of doctrine that our English Church hath and retaineth c. To tell you the truth I know not well how to answere this your demand yet not because it is so divinely grounded on the word of God but only because I want scoole learning and knowledge of auncient Authors writings as being not able to read and vnderstand them so that now you haue me at a non plus as wise men and fooles vse to say Yet this is one thing much to be lamented that a man of your place and learning should leaue the Scripture the true worde of the living God and thus inquire of the dead but according to the ould proverbe like will to like 5 Answer Thus much I say for answer to this your far-fetched demand I do beleeue and am fully perswaded by the word of God that in whatsoever Emperours or Kings time since the time of Christ in what Nation or Country soever whether in Asia Africk Europe or wheresoever any Church or Churches hath been is or shall be gathered or constituted in any other manner or by and with any other matter vnder or vnto any other worship ministry spirituall Governours or spirituall government then the same for substance in manner and matter which Christ and his Apostles haue appointed in the new testament they are not the true visible Churches of Christ I do not meane hereby an absolute true and perfect gathering or constituting but that all things both for the gathering and continuing of the true visible Church of Christ must be so far as can be discerned by men agreable to the word of God as God shall make men able to discerne and vnderstand the Scriptures And this is all that I can say for answer to this your demand only I will not loose the good advantage that I haue gained by the same which is this I see that you are not able to approue your Church by the word of God and therefore you are driven to make inquiry and to look about you to see if you can espie and find out any other Churches though never so far of whose constitution or gathering ministry and worship ecclesiasticall Governors and Ecclesiasticall government is for substance lyke vnto you hoping by them to iustifie your selues but how like it is that other Churches can afoord you any help or sauegard when as by the verdict of Gods word you stand cōdemned let the godly iudge Hee hath neede of a staffe that leaneth on a reed And yet even for this your poore proof it is affirmed by some who know those histories that it is a very boast without all truth that the Churches either in Constantines time or a long time after were gathered by compulsion of all tag and rag in the empyre as yours are of all in the kindome or that there were any such Arch Bishops or Lord Bishops with sole authority to rule and governe Besides let the Reader note how in your very Demand you do grauut the great difference betweene the Churches since Calvines time that is betweene all reformed Churches and your vnreformed Church of Enland 6 Demand Your sixt Demand is Whether the reformed Churches in the lower and higher Germany in France the Churches in Geneva c. that come neerer to our constitution and discipline you say then yours in England do be true visible Churches or no c. To this your Demand you haue added two branches depending vppon the former the which I will answer as you haue set them downe one afer another 6 Answer I answer yea they are true visible constituted Churches and haue a true and lawfull ministery set over them both which you in your Parish-assemblies want Then you further demand and say If they be such why then do not we adjoyn our selues to some of those but distaste them you say as much as wee do yours I thinke Sir it had been a poynt of wisedom first to haue heard our answer before you had thus hastily affirmed that we distast them as much as we do yours but Solomon hath answered you for your haste Pro. 29.20 And I will answer your Demand I haue in my
mighty reason a minore ad majus which words indeed I vnderstand not is this If say you our Lord Iesus his disciples and people did not separate from thire Sinagogues and assemblies that vvere in faith and maners more defectiue then ours are much lesse ought they to separate from our assembles vvherein all the grounds of Christian religion are soundly held and professed you might haue added and but fevv practise neither of preists nor people in vvhom couetousnes vvrath enuie and contention doe daily abound many thousands neither knowing nor regarding to knovv vvhat true faith meaneth and for their manners vvhich you vvould seeme so much to commend let the manners even of that Parish assembly vvherein your selfe did of late exercise your spirituall authority in vain as also the mānerly conditions and conversation of almost all in generall testifie hovv true this your bold affirmation of their manners is and vvithall let the Readers minde that although you boast of all the grounds of christian religion yet it is but held and professed not practised among you so that it may seeme you beleeue also that to hould and professe vvithout obedience is sufficient for the salvation of the professors but to the intent that this may be better discerned I doe intreat and desire all that are christianly minded to reade and consider of these fevv places of scripture Iam. 1.21.22.25.26 Tit. 1.16.2 Thes 1.7.8.9 Eze. 22.26 I vvill only poynt the places let the godly reade and iudge 4 Demand Novv to your fourth demand vvhich is Whether those great multituds of people spoken of Math. 14.13.14.15 c. Ioh. 6.5.10.11 can with any reason be denyed to be members of the visible church though yet wanting the pretended constitution of the Separatists and albeit many of them you say were drawne not by doctrine but by miracles report and with their desire to be fed c. 4 Answ To this your demand I ansvver directly yea they may vvith good reason grounded on the word of God speaking as you doe of the multitude be denyed to be members of any visible Church and this doth plainely apeare in the same 2 chapters namely Mat. 14. Ioh. 6. which may also be compared with other scriptures to proue the same There were none of them members of the visible Church of Christ but those that did visibly appeare to be Christs Disciples but the multitude that followed him for their bellies sake were not his Disciples as the very words of the text doe proue where a diffecence is put betweene the one and the other First looke Mat. 14.19 where it is said Hee caused the multitude to sit downe and when he had blessed broke he gaue it to the disciples the disciples to the multitude And whē they had all eaten were sufficed he caused his disciples to enter into a ship while he sent the multitude away Mat. 14.22.23 Mar. 4.4 If you say he taught them altogether it is true yet was it in parables and afterward he expounded all things to his disciples aparte Mar. 4.10.11.34.35.36 Mat. 13.10.11.13.14.15.36 And thus it doth plainly appear that the multitude were not his disciples and consequently not members of any visible Church of Christ for then he would not haue sent them away empty in their soules and full in their bodyes but he would haue expounded all things to them altogether for their edification and further comfort But the text doth plainly shevv the disciples to be vvithin and the multitude to be without Mar. 4.10.11.12 And whereas you further demand Whether those 3. thousand in the second of the acts that were converted at Peters Sermō were not true mēbers of a true visible Church before they had officers chosen among them c. I Ansvver yea they were this you say cannot bee refuted and it is true but what haue you gained by this what doth this helpe the multitude spoken of before If I should charge you here with deceitfull dealing by shuffling this place of the Acts with the other tvvo places of scripture therby to make your demand seem something and of some weight blinding therewith the eies of your readers I doubt you could hardly cleere your selfe with a good conscience but howsoever you would seeme to shuffle them together to serue your turne yet they are plainly distinguished thus as followeth This place of the Acts speaketh of three thousand godly penitent sinners pricked in their hearts for their sins and converted at that sermon the multitude spoken of in the other two scriptures were not such by your owne grant Againe these in the second of the Acts received the apostles doctrine gladly and forsaking that froward generation with whom they lived they ioyned them selues vnto the Church as appearath in the 37.40 and 41. verses Now who can deny these 3. thousand though still the multitude be denied to be members of the true visible Church when the text saith they were added to the Church although it should be granted that as yet they had no other officers chosen but the Apostles But then say you And why not our Church-assemblies in England much more grounded in the faith a true visible Church c. I ansvver no it vvill not follovv because howsoever some fevv of yovv may be more grounded in knovvledge of the truth then they vvere and thereby your sins and transgressions much more greater against God by knovving more and obaying lesse your parrish assemblies vvere not at the first gathred from others by the preaching of the vvord their hearts being touched vvith godly sorrovv for their sins neither do they yet appeare to be pricked in their hearts for their sins as those three thousand vvere Your parish assemblies do not gladly receiue the Apostles doctrine and continue therein vvith gladnes of heart to be directed and ordered thereby as they did but every man among you vvill doe vvhat his owne heart listeth euen according to the frowardnes and anger of his euill heart so that vvere it not for the lavves of the nation and the power of the magistrates restrayning them more then the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles the manifold mischiefs that would be done by one against another among you through the enuie and malice of your euill and wicked hearts is too manifest to be denyed and too shamefull to be defended I do hartely desire you Sir to examine your own heart well in this point minde well the exhortations that the Apostle giveth in Heb. 3.12 2. Cor. 13.5.6.7.8.9.11 1. Cor. 11.28.29.30.31 you see and know that your Parish-assemblies are so far from continuing in the Apostles doctrine that they neither konw therfore not receiue nor yet regard to know what the wholsome doctrine of the Apostles meaneth I speake not this of all in particular the Lord knoweth my heart is far from so thinking I know many that haue tender consciences and loving affections and do well regard the best rhings but I speake generally of the