and visible of any Church or Churches on the pretension and plea be it true or otherwise that the worship Doctrine discipline instituted by Christ is corrupted among them with which corruption he dares not defile himselfe it is no where in the Scripture called Schisme noâ— is that case particularly exemplified or expressely supposed whereby a judgement may be made of the fact at large but we are left upon the whole matter to the guidance of such generall principles and Rules as are given us for that end and purpose What may regularly on the other hand be deduced from the commands given to turne away from them who have only a forme of Godlinesse 2 Tim. 3. 5. to withdraw from them that walk disorderly 2 Thes 3. 6. not to beare nor endure in communion men of corrupt principles and wicked lives Rev. 2. 14. but positively to separate from an Apostate Church Rev. 18. 4 that in all things we may worship Christ according to his mind and appointment what is the force of these commands 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the like is without the compasse of what I am now treating about Of one particular Church departing from that communion with another or others be it what it will which it ought to hold unlesse in the departing of some of them in some things from the common Faith which is supposed not to relate to Schisme in the Scripture we have no example Diotrephes assuming an Authority over that Church wherein he was placed 3 Joh. 9 10. and for a season hindering the brethren from the performance of the duty incumbent upon them toward the great Apostle and others makes the nearest approach to such a division but yet in such a distance that it is not at all to our purpose in hand When I come to consider that communion that Churches have or ought to have among themselves this will be more fully discussed Neither is this my sence alone that there is no instance of any such separation as that which is the matter of our debate to be found in the Scripture It is confessed by others differing from me in and about Church affaires To leave all ordinary communion in any Church with dislike where opposition or offence offers it selfe is to separate from such a Church in the Scripture sence such separation was not in being in the Apostles time say they Papâ—â—accom p. 55. But how they came to know exactly the sence of the Scripture in about things not mentioned in them I know not As I said before were I unwilling I doe not as yet understand how I may be compelled to carry on the notion of Schisme any farther Nor is there need of adding any thing to demonstrate how little the conscience of a godly man walking peaceably in any particular Church society is concerned in all the clamarous disputes of this Age about it being built on false Hypotheses presumptions and notions no other way considerable but as received by tradition from our Fathers But I shall for the sake of some carry on this Discourse to a fuller issue There is another common notion of Schisme which pleads to an originall from that spoken expressly of it by a parity of reason which tolerable in it selfe hath been and is injuriously applyed and used according as it hath fallen into the hands of men who needed it as an engine to fixe or improve them in the station wherein they are or were wherewith they are pleased Indeed being invented for severall purposes there is nothing more frequent then for men who are scarce able to keep off the force of it from their own heads whilest mannaged against them by them above at the same time vigorously to apply it for the oppression of all under them What is on all hands consented unto as its generall nature I shall freely grant that I might have liberty and advantage thence to debate the restriction and application of it to the severall purposes of men prevailing themselves thereon Let then the generall demand be granted that Schisme is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the breach of Vnion which I shall attend with one reasonable postulatum namely that this union be an union of the appointment of Jesus Christ The consideration then of what or what sort of union in reference to the worship of God according to the Gospell is instituted appointed by Jesus Christ is the proper foundation of what I have farther to offer in this businesse Let the breach of this if you please be accounted Schisme for being an evill I shall not contend by what name or title it be distinguished It is not pleaded that any kind of relinquishment or desertion of any Church or Churches is presently Schisme but only such a separation as breakes the bond of Vnion instituted by Christ Now this union being instituted in the Church according to the various acceptions of that word so is it distinguished Therefore for a discovery of the nature of that which is particularly to be spoken to and also its contrary I must shew 1. The severall considerations of the Church wherein and with which union is to be preserved 2. What that union is and wherein it doth consist which according to the minde of Christ we are to keep and observe with the Church under the severall notions of it respectively 3 And how that union is broken and what is that sinne whereby it is done In handling this triple proposall I desire that it may not be expected that I should much insist on any thing that falls in my way though never so usefull to my end and purpose which hath been already proved and confirmed by others beyond all possibility of controule and such will many if not most of the principles that I proceed upon appeare to be CAP. IV. Severall Acceptations in the Scripture of the name Church Of the Church Catholick properly so called Of the Church visible Perpetuity of particular Churches A mistake rectifyed The nature of the Church Catholick evinced Bellarmine his description of the Church Catholick Vnion of the Church Catholick wherein it consists Vnion by way of consequence Vnity of Faith Of Love The Communion of the Catholick Church in and with itsselfe The breach of the Vnion of the Church Catholick wherein it consisteth Not morally possible Protestants not guilty of it The Papall world out of interest in the Church Catholick As partly profane Miracles no evidence of Holinesse Partly ignorant Selfe Justitiaries Idolatrous Worshippers of the Beast TO begin with the first thing proposed The Church of Christ living in this world as to our present concernment is taken in Scripture three wayes 1. For the Mysticall body of Christ his Elect Redeemed Justifyed and Sanctifyed ones throughout the world commonly called the Church-Catholick-Militant 2. For the Vniversality of men throughout the world called by the preaching of the word visibly professing and yeilding obedience to the Gospell called by some
them the least direction to make their addresse to him that should succeed Peter in his Power and Office for reliefe and redresse Strange that it should be of necessity to Salvation to be subject to him in whom this power of Peter was to be continued that he was to be one in whom the Saints were to be consummated that in Relation to him the Unity of the Catholick Church to be preserved under paine of damnation should consist and yet not a word spoken of him in the whole Word of God But they say Peter had not only an Apostolicall power with the rest of the Apostles but also an ordinary power that was to be continued in the Church But the Scripture being confessedly silent of any such thing let us heare what proof is tendered for the establishment of this uncouth Assertion Herein then thus they proceed It will be confessed that Jesus Christ ordained his Church wisely according to his infinite wisedome which he exercised about his body Now to this wisdome of his for the prevention of innumerable evils it is agreeable that he should appoint some one person with that power of declaring truth and of Jurisdiction to enforce the receiving of it which we plead for For this was in Peter as is proved from the texts of Scripture before mentioned therefore it is continued in them that succeed him And here lyes the great stresse of their cause That to prevent evills and inconveniences it became the wisedome of Jesus Christ to appoint a person with all that Authority power infallibility to continue in his Church to the end of the world And this plea they mannage variously with much Sophistry Rhetorick and Testimonies of Antiquity But suppose all this should be granted yet I am full well assured that they can never bring it home to their concernment by any Argument but only the actuall claime of the Pope wherein he stands singly now in the world which that it is satisfactory to make it good de fide that he is so will not easily be granted The truth is of all the attempts they make against the Lord Jesus Christ this is one of the greatest wherein they will assert that it became his wisedome to doe which by no meanes they can prove that he hath done which is plainly to tell us what in their judgement he ought to have done though he hath not that therefore it is incumbent on them to supply what he hath been defective in Had he taken the care he should of them and their Master that he and they might have ruled and reviled over and in the house of God he would have appointed things as now they are which they affirme to have become his wisedome He was a King that once cryed Si Deo in creatione adfuissem mundum melius ordinassem But every Fryar or Monck can say of Jesus Christ had they been present at his framing the world to come whereof we speake they would have told him what had become his wisedome to do Our Blessed Lord hath left sufficient provision against all future emergencies inconveniences in his word Spirit given promised to his Saints And the one Remedie which these men have found out with the contempt and blaspemy of him and them hath proved worse then all the other evills and diseases for whose prevention he made provision which he hath done also for that remedy of theirs but that some are hardned through the righteous judgement of God and deceitfulnesse of sin The mannagement of this plea by some of late is very considerable say they Quia non de verbis solum Scripturae sed etiaÌ„ de sensu plurima coÌ„troversia est si ecclesiae interpretatio non est certâ—… intelligendi norma ecquis erit istiusmodi Controversiae judex sensuÌ„ enim suuÌ„ pro sua virili quisque defendet quod si in Exploranda verbi Dei intelligentia nullus est certus judex audemus dicere nullam rempublicam fuisse stultius constitutam Sin autem Apostoli tradiderunt Eccclesiis verbum Dei sine intelligentia verbi Dei quomodo praedicarunt Evangelium omni Creaturae quomodo decuerunt omnes Gentes servare quaecunque illis fuerunt a Christo commendata Non est puerorum aut Psittaeorum praedicatio qui sine mente dant accipiuntque sonum Walemburg Con. 4. Num. 26. It is well that at length these men speak out plainly If the Pope be not a visible supreame Judge in over the Church Christ hath in the constitution of his Church dealt more foolishly then ever any did in the constitution of a Commonwealth If he have not an infallible power of determining the sense of the Scriptures the Scripture is but an empty insignificant word like the speech of Parats or Popyniaies Though Christ hath by his Apostles given the Scriptures to make the man of God wise unto Salvation and promised his spirit unto them that believe by whose assistance the Scripture gives out it s own sence to them yet all is folly if the Pope be not Supreame and Infallible The Lord rebuke them who thus boldly blaspheame his word and wisdome But let us proceed This Peter thus invested in power that was to be traduced to others went to Rome and Preached the Gospell there It is most certain nor will themselves deny it that if this be not so and believed their whole fabrick will fall to the ground But can this be necessary for all sorts of Christians and every individuall of men among them to believe when there is not the least insinuation of any such thing in the Scripture certainly though it be only a matter of fact yet being of such huge importance and consequence and such a doctrine of absolute indispensable necessity to be believed as is pretended depending upon it if it were true and true in reference to such an end and purpose as is pleaded it would not have been passed over in silence there where so many things of inconceivable lesse concernment to the Church of God though all in their respective degrees tending to edification are recorded As to what is recorded in story the order and series of things with the discovery afforded us of Peters course place of abode in Scripture doe prevaile with me to think stedfastly that he was never there against the selfe contradicting testimonies of some few who took up vulgar reports then when the mystery of iniquity had so farre â—pâ—rated at least that it was judged meet that the chiefe of the Apostles should have lived in the chiefe City of the World But that we may proceed grant this also that Peter was at Rome which they shall never be able to prove and that he did Preach the Gospell there yet so he did by their own Confession at other places making his residence at Antioch for some years what will this availe towards the setling of the matter under consideration There Christ
large professedly disclaiming all thoughts of rejecting those Ministers as Papall and Antichristian who yet adhere to this Ordination being many of them eminently gifted of God to dispense the word and submitted unto by his people in the Administration of the Ordinances and are right worthy Ministers of the Gospell of Christ But I shall only remarke some thing on the plea that is insisted on by them who would if I mistake not keep up in this particular what God would have pull'd downe They aske us why not Ordination from the Church of Rome as well as the Scripture In which enquiry I am sorry that some doe still continue We are so farre from having the Scripture from the Church of Rome by any Authority of it as such that it is one cause of daily praising God that by his providence he kept them from being either corrupted or destroyed by them It iâ— true the Bible was kept among the people that lived in those parts of the World where the Pope prevailed so was the Old Testament by the Jews the whole by the Easterne Christians By none so corrupted as by those of the Papall Territorie God forbid we should say we â—ad the Scriptures from the Church of Rome as such if we had why doe we not keep them as she delivered them to us in the vulgar Translation with the Apochryphall additions The Ordination pleaded for is from the Authority of the Church of Rome as such The Scriptures were by the providence of God preserved under the Papacy for the use of his People and had they been found by chance as it were like the Law of old they had been the same to us that now they are So that of these things there is not the same Reason It is also pleaded that the granting true Ordination to the Church of Rome doth not prove that to be a true Church This I professe I understâ—and not they who ordained had no power so to doe but as they were Officers of that Church as such they did it and if others had ordained who were not Officers of that Church all would confesse that Action to be null But they who will not be contented that Christ hath appointed the Office of the Ministry to be continued in his Churches that he continues to dispense his gifts of the Spirit for the Execution of that Office when men are called thereunto that he prepares the hearts of his people to desire and submit unto them in the Lord that as to the manner of entrance upon the worke they may have it according to the minde of Christ to the utmost in all circumstances so soon as his Churches are shaken out of the dust of Babylon with his Glory shining on them and the Tabernacle of God is thereby once more placed with men shall have leave for me to derive their interest in the ministry through that darke passage wherein I cannot see one step before me if they are otherwise qualified and accepted as above I shall ever pay them that honour which is done to Elders labouring in the word and doctrine CHAP. VII Of a particular Church its nature Frequently mentioned in Scripture Particular Congregations acknowledged the only Churches of the first Institution What ensued on the multiplication of Churches Some things premised to clear the unity of the Church in this sence Every Believer ordinarily obliged to joyne himselfe to some particular Church Many things in instituted worship answering a naturall principle Perpetuity of the Church in this sence True Churches at first planted in England How they ceased so to be How Churches may be again reerected Of the Vnion of a particular Church in its selfe Foundation of that Vnion twofold The Vnion its selfe Of the communion of particular Churchers one with another Our concernment in this Vnion I now descend to the last consideration of a Church in the most usuall Acceptation of that name in the New Testament that is of a particular instituted Church A Church in this sence I take to be a Society of men called by the word to the obedience of the Faith in Christ and joynt performance of the worship of God in the same individuall Ordinances according to the order by Christ prescribed This generall description of it exhibits its nature so farre as is necessary to cleare the subject of our present disquisition A more accurate definition would only administer farther occasion of contesting about things not necessary to be determined as to the enquiry in hand Such as this was the Church at Hierusalem that was persecuted Act. 8. 1. The Church whereof Saul made havock v. 3. The Church that was vexed by Herod Act. 12. 1. Such was the Church at Antioch which Assembled together in one place Act. 13. 14. wherein were sundry Prophets Act. 13 1. As that at Hierusalem consisted of Elders and Bretherren Act. 15. 22. The Apostles or some of them being there then present which added no other consideration to that Church then that we are now speaking of Such were those mens Churches wherein Elders were ordained by Pauls appointment Act. 14. 23. As also the Church of Coesarea Act. 18. 22. at Ephesus Act. 20. 14. 28. As was that at Corinth 1 Cor. 1. 2. c. 6. 4. 11. 12. 14. 4 5. 12. 19. 2 Cor. 1 1. And those mentioned Rev. 1. 2 3. All which Paul calls the Churches of the Gentiles Rom. 16. 4. in contradistinction to those of the Jews and calls them indefinitely the Churches of God v. 16. or the Churches of Christ 1 Cor. 7. 17. 2 Cor. 8 18. 19. 23. 2 Thess 1. 4. and in sundry other places Hence we have mention of many Churches in one Country as in Judaea Act. 9. 1. in Asia 1 Cor. 16. 19. in Macedonia 2 Cor. 8. 1. in Galatia Gal. 1. 2. the seven Churches of Asia Rev. 1. 11. and unto 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act 16. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 answers v. 5. in the same Country I suppose that in this description of a particular Church I have not only the consent of them of all sorts with whom I have now to doe as to what remaines of this discourse but aso their acknowledgment that these were the only kinds of Churches of the first Institution The Reverend Authors of the Jus Divinum Ministerii Anglicani p. 2 c. 6. tell us that in the Beginning of Christianity the number of Believers even in the greatest Citys were so few as that they might all meet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in one and the same place And these are called the Church of the City and the Angell of such a City was Congregationall not Diocesan which discourse exhibits that state of a particular Church which is now pleaded for and which shall afterwards be evinced allowing no other no not in the greatest Cityes In a rejoynder to that Treatise so far at the case of Episcopacy is herein concerned by a person well known
appointed him to fixe his Chaire and make that Church the place of his residence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Of his meeting Simon Magus at Rome who in all probability was never there for Seme Sangus was not Simon Magus nor Sanctus nor Deus Magnus of the conquest made of him and his Divells of his being instructed of Christ not to goe from Rome but tarry there and suffer some thing may be said from old Legends But of his chaire and fixing of it at Rome of his confinement as it were to that place in direct opposition to the tenour of his Apostolicall commission who first told the story I know not but this I know they will one day be ashamed of their Chaire Thrones and Sees and Jurisdictions wherein they now so please themselves But what is next to this The Bishop of Rome succeeds Peter in all that Power Jurisdiction Infallibility with whatsoever else was fancied before in him as the ordinary Lord of the Church and therefore the Roman Church is the Catholick quod erat demonstrandum Now though this inference will no way follow upon these Principles though they should all be supposed to be true whereof not one is so much as probable and though this last Assertion be vaine and ridiculous nothing at all being pleaded to ground this Succession no Institution of Christ no Act of any Councell of the Church no Will nor Testament of Peter but only it is so fallen out as the world was composed of a casuall concurrence of Atomes yet seeing they will have it so I desire a little farther information in one thing that yet remains and that is this The Charter Patents and Grant of all this power right of succession unto Peter in all the Advantages priviledges and Jurisdiction before mentioned being wholly in their own keeping whereof I never saw letter or title nor ever conversed with any one no not of themselves that did I would be gladly informed whether this grant be made to him absolutely without any manner of condition whatever so that who ever comes to be Pope of Rome and possessed of Peters Chaire theâ—e by what meanes soever he is possessed of it whether he believe the Gospell or no or any of the saving Truths therein contained and so their Church must be the Catholick Church though it follow him in all Abominations or whether it be made on any condition to him especially that of cleaving to the doctrine of Christ revealed in the Gospell If they say the first that it is an absolute grant that is made to him without any condition expressed or necessarily to be understood I am at an issue and have nothing to adde But my desire that the Grant may be produced for whilest we are at this variance it is against all Law and Equity that the parties litigant should be admitted to plead bare Allegations without proofe If the latter though we should grant all the former monstrous suppositions yet we are perfectly secure against all their pretensions knowing nothing more clearly and evidently then that He and they have broken all conditions that can possibly be imagined by corrupting and perverting almost the whole doctrine of the Gospell And whereas it may be supposed that the great condition of such a grant would consist in his diligent attendance to the Scriptures the Word of God herein doth the filth of their Abominations appeare above all other things The guilt that is in that society or combination of men in locking up the Scriptures in an unknown tongue forbidding the people to read it burning some men to death for the studying of it and no more disputing against its power to make good its own Authority charging it with obscurity imperfection insufficiency frighting men from the perusall of it with the danger of being seduced and made Hereticks by so doing setting up their own Traditions in an equality with it if not exalting them above it studying by all meanes to decry it as uselesse and contemptible at least comparatively with themselves will not be purged from them for ever But you will say this is a simple question For the Pope of Rome hath a promise that he shall still be such an one as is fit to be trusted with the power mentioned and not one that shall defend Mahumet to be the Prophet of God sent into the world or the like Abominations at least that be he what he will placed in the chaire he shall not â—â—re nor mistake in what he delivereth for Truth Now seeing themselves as was said are the sole keepers of this promise and grant also which they have not as yet shewed to the world I am necessitated to aske once more whether it be made to him meerly upon condition of mounting into his Chaire or also on this condition that he use the means appointed by God to come to the knowledge of the Truth If they say the former I must needs say that it is so remote from my apprehension that God who will be worshipped in spirit and in truth only should now under the Gospell promise to any persons that be they never so wicked and abominable never so openly and evidently sworne enemies of him and his Anoynted whether they use any means or not by him appointed that they shall alwayes in all things speake the truth which they hate in love which they have not with that Authority which all his Saints must bow unto especially not having intimated any one word of any such promise in the Scripture that I know not whatever I heard of in my life that I cannot as soone believe If they say the latter we close then as we did our former enquiry Upon the credit and strength of these sandy foundations and principles which neither severally nor joyntly will beare the weight of a feather in a long continued course of Apostacy have men conquered all Policy Religion and honesty and built up that stupendious fabrick coupled together with subtle and scarce discernable joynts and ligaments which they call the Catholick Church 1. In despight of policy they have not only enslaved Kings Kingdomes Common-wealths Nations People to be their vassalls and at their disposall but also contrary to all Rules of goverment beyond the thoughts and conjectures of all or any that ever wrote of or instituted a Goverment in the world they have in most Nations of Europe set up a Government Authority and Jurisdiction within anothers Government and Authority setled on other accounts the one independent on the other and have brought these things to some kind of consistency which that it might be accomplished never entered into the heart of any wise man once to imagine nor had ever been by them effected without such advantages as none in the world ever had in such a continuance but themselves Unlesse the Druids of old in some Nations obtained some such thing 2. In despight of Religion it self they have made
a new Creed invented new wayes of worship given a whole summe and system of their own altogether alien froÌ„ the Word of God without an open disclaiming of that word which in innumerable places beares testimony of its own perfection and fulnesse 3. Contrary to common Honesty the first principles of Reason with violence to the evident dictates of the Law of nature they will in confidence of these principles have the word sentence of a Pope though a beast a witch a Conjurer as by their own confession many of them have been to be impliciteâ—y submitted to in about things which he neither knoweth nor loveth nor careth for being yet such in themselves as immediately and directly concerne the everlasting condition of the soules of men And this is our second returne to their pretence of being the Catholick Church to which I adde 3. That their plea is so far from truth that they are and they only the Catholick Church that indeed they belong not to it because they keep not the Vnity of the faith which is required to constitute any person whatever a member of that Church but faile in all the conditions of it For 1. To proceed by way of instance they doe not professe nor believe a Justification distinct from Sanctification and acceptance thereof the Doctrine whereof is of absoluâ—e indispensable necessity to the preservation of the Vnity of the Faith and so faile in the first condition of professing all necessary Truths I know what they say of Justification what they have determined concerning it in the Councell of Trent what they dispute about it in their books of Controversies But I deny that which they contend for to be a Justification so that they doe not deny only Justification by Faith but positively over and above the infusion of Grace and the acceptance of the obedience thence arising that there is any Justification at all consisting in the free and full absolution of a sinner on the account of Christ 2. They discover principles corrupt and depraved utterly inconsistent with those truths and the receiving of them which in generall by owning the Scriptures they doe professe Herein to passe by the principles of Atheisme wickednesse and profannesse that effectually worke and manifest themselves in the generality of their Priests People that of self â—ighteousnes that is in the best of their Devotionists is utterly inconsistent with the whole Doctrine of the Gospell and all saving Truths concerning the mediation of Jesus Christ therein conteined 3. That in their Doctrine of the Popes supremacy of merits satisfaction the masse the worshipping of Images they adde such things to their profession as enervate the efficacy of all the saving truths they doe professe and so faile in the third condition This hath so abundantly been manifested by others that I shall not need to adde any thing to give the charge of it upon them any farther evidence or demonstration Thus it is unhappily fallen out with these men that what of all men they most pretend unto that of all men they have the least intâ—erest in Aâ—haeneus tells us of one Throsâ—â—aus an Aâ—henian who being phrenetically distempered whatever ships came into the Pyraeum he looked on them and thought them his own and rejoyced as the Master of so great wealth when he was not the owner of so much as a boate such a distemper of pride and folly hath in the like manner ceased on these persons with whom we have to doe that where ever in Scripture they meet with the name Church presently as though they were intended by it they rejoyce in the priviledges of it when their concernment lyes not at all therein To close this whole discourse I shall bring the grand Argument of the Romanists with whom I shall now in this Treatise have little more to doe wherewith they make such a noise in the world to an â—ssue Of the many formes and shapes whereinto by them it is cast this seems to be the most perspicuously expressive of their intention Voluntarily to forsake the communion of the Church of Christ is Schisme and they that doe so are guilty of it You have voluntarily forsaken the communion of the Church of Christ Therefore You are guilty of the sinne of Schisme I have purposely omitted the interposing of the terme Catholick that the reason of the Argument might runne to its length for upon the taking in of that terme we have nothing to doe but only to deny the Minor Proposition seeing the Roman Church be it what it will is not the Church Catholick but as it is without that limitation called the Church of Christ indefinitely it leaves place for a farther and fuller Answer To this by way of inference they adde that Schisme as it is declared by S. Austin and S Thomas of Aquin being so great and damnable a sinne and whereas it is plainâ— that out of the Church which as Peter says is as Noahs Arke 1 Pet. 3. 20 21. there is no salvation it is cleare you will be damned This is the summe of their plea. Now as for the forementioned Argument some of our Divines answer to the Minor Prop. and that both as to the tearmes of voluntary forsaking and that also of the Communion of the Church For the first they say they did not voluntarily forsake the communion of the Church that then was but being necessitated by the command of God to reforme themselves in sundry things they were driven out by bell book and Candle cursed out killed out driven out by all manner of violence Ecclesiasticall and Civill which is a strange way of mens becoming Schismatick 2. That they forsook not the communion of the Church but the Corruptions of it or the communion of it in its corruption not in other things wherein it was Lawfull to continue communion with it To give strength to this Answer they farther adde that though they grant the Church of Rome to have been at the time of the first separation a true Church of Christ yet they deny it to be Catholick Church or only visible Church then in the World the Churches in the East claiming that title by as good a right as shee So they Others principally answer to the Major Prop. and tell you that separation is either causeles or upon just ground and cause that t is a causeles separation only from the Church of Christ that is Schisme that there can be no cause of Schisme for if there be a cause of Schisme materially it ceaseth to be Schisme formally and so to strengthen their answer in Hypothesi they fall upon the Idolatrys Heresies Tyranny and Apostacy of the Church of Rome as just causes of Separation from her nor will their plea be shaken to eternity so that being true and popular understood by the meanest though it contain not the whole Truth I shall not in the least impaire it For them who