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A27045 The successive visibility of the church of which the Protestants are the soundest members I. defended against the opposition of Mr. William Johnson, II. proved by many arguments / by Richard Baxter ; whereunto is added 1. an account of my judgement to Mr. J. how far hereticks are or are not in the church, 2. Mr. Js. explication of the most used terms, with my queries thereupon, and his answer and my reply, 3. an appendix about successive ordination, 4. letters between me and T.S., a papist, with a narrative of the success. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.; Johnson, William, 1583-1663. 1660 (1660) Wing B1418; ESTC R17445 166,900 438

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expound_v they_o 5._o they_o plead_v for_o a_o appeal_n to_o council_n and_o though_o we_o easy_o prove_v that_o none_o of_o they_o be_v universal_a yet_o such_o as_o they_o be_v they_o call_v they_o all_o reprobate_n which_o be_v not_o approve_v by_o their_o pope_n let_v the_o number_n of_o bishop_n there_o be_v never_o so_o great_a and_o those_o that_o be_v approve_v if_o they_o speak_v against_o they_o they_o reject_v also_o either_o with_o lie_v shift_n deny_v the_o approbation_n or_o say_v the_o act_n be_v not_o the_o fide_fw-la or_o not_o conciliariter_fw-la facta_fw-la or_o the_o sense_n must_v be_v give_v by_o their_o present_a church_n or_o one_o such_o contemptible_a shift_n or_o other_o 6._o at_o least_o one_o will_v think_v they_o shall_v stand_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o pope_n which_o yet_o they_o will_v not_o for_o shame_n forbid_v they_o to_o own_o the_o doctrine_n of_o those_o pope_n that_o be_v heretic_n or_o infidel_n and_o by_o council_n so_o judge_v and_o other_o they_o be_v force_v to_o disown_n because_o they_o contradict_v their_o predecessor_n and_o at_o rome_n the_o cardinal_n be_v the_o pope_n while_o he_o that_o have_v the_o name_n be_v oft_o make_v light_n of_o and_o how_o infallible_a he_o be_v judge_v by_o the_o french_a and_o the_o venetian_n how_o sixtus_n the_o five_o be_v value_v by_o the_o spaniard_n and_o by_o bellarmine_n be_v common_o know_v 7._o but_o all_o this_o be_v nothing_o to_o their_o renunciation_n of_o humanity_n even_o of_o the_o common_a sense_n and_o reason_n of_o the_o world_n when_o the_o matter_n be_v bring_v to_o the_o decision_n of_o their_o eye_n and_o taste_v and_o feeling_n whether_o bread_n be_v bread_n and_o wine_n be_v wine_n and_o yet_o all_o italy_n spain_n austria_n bravaria_n &c._n &c._n can_v resolve_v it_o yea_o general_o unless_o some_o latent_fw-la protestant_a do_v pass_v their_o judgement_n against_o their_o sense_n &_o the_o sense_n of_o all_o sound_a man_n in_o the_o world_n &_o that_o not_o in_o a_o matter_n beyond_o the_o reach_n of_o sense_n as_o whether_o christ_n be_v there_o spiritual_o but_o in_o a_o matter_n belong_v to_o sense_n if_o any_o thing_n belong_v to_o it_o as_o whether_o bread_n be_v bread_n etc._n etc._n king_n and_o noble_n prelate_n and_o priest_n do_v all_o give_v their_o judgement_n that_o all_o their_o sense_n be_v deceive_v and_o be_v it_o possible_a for_o these_o man_n then_o to_o know_v any_o thing_n or_o any_o controversy_n between_o we_o and_o they_o to_o be_v decide_v if_o we_o say_v that_o the_o sun_n be_v light_a or_o that_o the_o pope_n be_v a_o man_n and_o scripture_n legible_a or_o that_o there_o be_v the_o write_n of_o council_n and_o father_n extant_a in_o the_o world_n they_o may_v as_o well_o concur_v in_o a_o denial_n of_o all_o this_o or_o any_o thing_n else_o that_o sense_n shall_v judge_v of_o if_o they_o tell_v we_o that_o scripture_n require_v they_o to_o contradict_v all_o their_o sense_n in_o this_o point_n i_o answer_v 1._o not_o that_o scripture_n before_o mention_v that_o call_v it_o bread_n after_o the_o consecration_n thrice_o in_o the_o three_o next_o verse_n 2._o and_o how_o know_v they_o that_o there_o be_v such_o a_o scripture_n if_o all_o their_o sense_n be_v so_o fallible_a if_o the_o certainty_n of_o sense_n be_v not_o suppose_v a_o little_a learning_n or_o wit_n may_v satisfy_v they_o that_o faith_n can_v have_v no_o certainty_n but_o be_v it_o not_o a_o most_o dreadful_a judgement_n of_o god_n that_o prince_n and_o nation_n learned_a man_n and_o some_o that_o in_o their_o way_n be_v conscientious_a shall_v be_v give_v over_o to_o so_o much_o inhumanity_n and_o to_o make_v a_o religion_n of_o this_o brutishness_n and_o worse_o and_o to_o persecute_v those_o with_o fire_n and_o sword_n that_o be_v not_o so_o far_o forsake_v by_o god_n and_o by_o their_o reason_n and_o that_o they_o shall_v so_o solicitous_o labour_v the_o perversion_n of_o state_n and_o kingdom_n for_o the_o promote_a of_o stupidity_n or_o stark_a madness_n 8._o and_o if_o we_o go_v from_o their_o principle_n to_o their_o end_n or_o way_n we_o shall_v soon_o see_v that_o they_o be_v also_o against_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n while_o they_o pretend_v this_o as_o their_o chief_a argugument_n to_o draw_v man_n to_o their_o way_n they_o set_v up_o a_o corrupt_a faction_n and_o condemn_v the_o far_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n and_o will_v have_v no_o unity_n with_o any_o but_o those_o of_o their_o own_o faction_n and_o subjection_n and_o fix_v this_o as_o a_o essential_a part_n of_o their_o religion_n create_v thereby_o a_o impossibility_n of_o universal_a concord_n 9_o they_o also_o contradict_v the_o experience_n of_o many_o thousand_o saint_n assert_v that_o they_o be_v all_o void_a of_o the_o love_n of_o god_n and_o save_a grace_n till_o they_o become_v subject_a to_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n when_o as_o the_o soul_n of_o these_o believer_n have_v experience_n of_o the_o love_n of_o god_n within_o they_o and_o feel_v that_o grace_n that_o prove_v their_o justification_n i_o wonder_v what_o kind_n of_o thing_n it_o be_v that_o be_v call_v love_n or_o holiness_n in_o a_o papist_n which_o protestant_n and_o other_o christian_n have_v not_o and_o what_o be_v the_o difference_n 10._o they_o be_v most_o notorious_a enemy_n to_o charity_n condemn_v most_o of_o the_o christian_a world_n to_o hell_n for_o be_v out_o of_o their_o subjection_n 11._o they_o be_v notorious_a enemy_n to_o knowledge_n under_o pretence_n of_o obedience_n and_o unity_n and_o avoid_v heresy_n they_o celebrate_v their_o worship_n in_o a_o language_n not_o understand_v by_o the_o vulgar_a worshipper_n they_o hinder_v the_o people_n from_o read_v the_o holy_a scripture_n which_o the_o ancient_a father_n exhort_v man_n and_o woman_n to_o as_o a_o ordinary_a thing_n the_o quality_n of_o their_o priest_n and_o people_n testify_v this_o 12._o they_o oppose_v the_o purity_n of_o divine_a worship_n set_v up_o a_o multitude_n of_o humane_a invention_n instead_o thereof_o and_o idolatrous_o for_o no_o less_o can_v be_v say_v of_o it_o adore_v a_o piece_n of_o conserate_v bread_n as_o their_o god_n 13._o they_o be_v opposer_n of_o holiness_n both_o by_o the_o foresay_a enmity_n to_o knowledge_n charity_n and_o purity_n of_o worship_n and_o by_o many_o unholy_a doctrine_n and_o by_o delude_a soul_n with_o a_o outside_n histrionical_a way_n of_o religion_n never_o require_v by_o the_o lord_n consist_v in_o a_o multitude_n of_o ceremony_n and_o worship_v of_o angel_n and_o the_o soul_n of_o saint_n and_o image_n and_o cross_n etc._n etc._n let_v experience_n speak_v how_o much_o the_o life_n of_o holiness_n be_v promote_v by_o they_o 14._o they_o be_v enemy_n to_o common_a honesty_n teach_v the_o doctrine_n of_o equivocation_n and_o mental_a reservation_n and_o make_v many_o heinous_a sin_n venial_a and_o many_o of_o the_o most_o odious_a sin_n to_o be_v duty_n as_o kill_v king_n that_o be_v excommunicate_v by_o the_o pope_n take_v oath_n with_o the_o foresay_a reservation_n and_o break_v they_o etc._n etc._n for_o the_o jesuit_n doctrine_n montaltus_n the_o jansenist_n and_o many_o of_o the_o french_a clergy_n have_v pretty_a well_o open_v it_o and_o the_o pope_n himself_o have_v late_o be_v fain_o to_o publish_v a_o condemnation_n of_o their_o apology_n and_o yet_o the_o power_n and_o interest_n of_o the_o jesuit_n and_o their_o follower_n among_o they_o be_v not_o altogether_o unknown_a to_o the_o world_n 15._o they_o be_v enemy_n to_o civil_a peace_n and_o government_n if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o in_o the_o world_n as_o their_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o kill_v and_o depose_v excommunicate_a prince_n break_v oath_n etc._n etc._n show_v bellarmine_n that_o will_v go_v a_o middle_a way_n give_v the_o pope_n power_n in_o ordine_fw-la ad_fw-la spiritualia_fw-la and_o indirect_o to_o dispose_v of_o kingdom_n and_o tell_v we_o that_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o tolerate_v heretical_a king_n that_o propagate_v their_o heresy_n that_o be_v the_o ancient_a faith_n how_o well_o doctor_n heylin_n have_v vindicate_v their_o council_n of_o lateran_n in_o this_o who_o decree_n stand_v as_o a_o monument_n of_o the_o horrid_a treasonable_a doctrine_n of_o the_o papist_n i_o shall_v if_o god_n will_v hereafter_o manifest_a in_o the_o mean_a time_n let_v any_o man_n read_v the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n and_o judge_n and_o now_o whether_o a_o religion_n that_o be_v at_o such_o open_a enmity_n with_o 1._o scripture_n 2._o the_o church_n 3._o tradition_n 4._o father_n 5._o council_n 6._o some_o pope_n 7._o the_o common_a sense_n and_o reason_n of_o all_o the_o world_n even_o their_o own_o 8._o unity_n of_o christian_n 9_o knowledge_n 10._o experience_n of_o believer_n 11._o charity_n 12._o purity_n of_o worship_n 13._o holiness_n 14._o common_a honesty_n
they_o reason_n against_o the_o knowledge_n and_o experience_n of_o my_o soul._n your_o scope_n be_v to_o prove_v i_o in_o a_o state_n of_o damnation_n you_o confess_v that_o if_o i_o have_v charity_n i_o be_o in_o a_o state_n of_o salvation_n i_o know_v and_o feel_v that_o i_o have_v charity_n therefore_o i_o know_v that_o your_o reason_n be_v deceit_n arg._n 2._o the_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v contain_v in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n as_o its_o rule_n in_o all_o point_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n have_v be_v visible_a ever_o since_o the_o day_n of_o christ_n on_o earth_n but_o the_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v contain_v in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n as_o its_o rule_n in_o all_o point_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n be_v it_o of_o which_o the_o protestant_n be_v member_n therefore_o the_o church_n of_o which_o the_o protestant_n be_v member_n have_v be_v visible_a ever_o since_o the_o day_n of_o christ_n on_o earth_n that_o the_o catholic_n church_n which_o have_v be_v visible_a till_o now_o have_v receive_v the_o holy_a scripture_n which_o we_o receive_v be_v confess_v by_o all_o papist_n that_o ever_o i_o hear_v or_o read_v make_v mention_n of_o it_o and_o no_o wonder_n for_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v that_o this_o church_n have_v take_v these_o scripture_n for_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n in_o all_o point_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n allow_v church-governor_n to_o make_v canon_n about_o the_o circumstantial_o of_o government_n and_o worship_n which_o in_o the_o universal_a law_n be_v not_o determine_v but_o leave_v to_o humane_a prudence_n to_o determine_v 1._o i_o have_v prove_v in_o my_o three_o dispute_n of_o the_o safe_a religion_n already_o 2._o it_o be_v confess_v by_o the_o papist_n the_o forecited_a passage_n of_o bellarmine_n and_o costerus_n be_v sufficient_a but_o in_o the_o great_a council_n at_o basil_n orat._n ragus_n bin._n p._n 299._o it_o be_v most_o plain_o and_o with_o full_a authority_n assert_v the_o holy_a scripture_n in_o the_o literal_a sense_n sound_o and_o well_o understand_v be_v the_o infallible_a and_o most_o sufficient_a rule_n of_o faith_n see_v my_o vindication_n of_o this_o testimony_n in_o my_o catholic_n key_n and_o the_o like_a from_o card._n richlieu_n gerson_n say_v the_o exam_n doctr_n p._n 2._o cont_n 1._o nihil_fw-la audendum_fw-la dicere_fw-la de_fw-la divinis_fw-la nisi_fw-la quae_fw-la nobis_fw-la à_fw-la sacra_fw-la scriptura_fw-la tradita_fw-la sunt_fw-la durandus_fw-la in_o his_o preface_n be_v whole_o for_o the_o excellency_n and_o sufficiency_n of_o the_o scripture_n three_o way_n he_o say_v god_n reveal_v himself_o and_o other_o thing_n to_o man_n the_o low_a way_n be_v by_o the_o book_n of_o the_o creature_n so_o heathen_n may_v know_v he_o the_o high_a be_v by_o manifest_a vision_n as_o in_o heaven_n and_o the_o middle_a way_n be_v in_o the_o book_n of_o holy_a scripture_n without_o which_o there_o be_v no_o come_n to_o the_o high_a way_n and_o go_v on_o to_o extol_v the_o scripture_n he_o cit_v jeromes_n word_n add_v paulinum_n let_v we_o learn_v on_o earth_n the_o knowledge_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o will_v abide_v with_o we_o in_o heaven_n but_o this_o be_v only_o say_v he_o in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o after_o ex_fw-la hierom_n ad_fw-la marcell_n if_o reason_n be_v bring_v against_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n how_o acute_a soever_o it_o be_v it_o can_v be_v true_a and_o after_o we_o must_v speak_v of_o the_o mystery_n of_o christ_n and_o universal_o of_o those_o thing_n that_o mere_o concern_v faith_n conformable_o to_o what_o the_o holy_a scripture_n deliver_v so_o christ_n john_n 5._o search_v the_o scripture_n it_o be_v they_o that_o testify_v of_o i_o if_o any_o observe_v not_o this_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o mystery_n of_o christ_n and_o of_o other_o thing_n direct_o touch_v faith_n as_o he_o ought_v but_o fall_v into_o that_o of_o the_o apostle_n 1_o cor._n 8._o if_o any_o man_n think_v he_o know_v any_o thing_n he_o yet_o know_v nothing_o as_o he_o ought_v to_o know_v for_o the_o measure_n be_v not_o to_o exceed_v the_o measure_n of_o faith_n of_o which_o the_o apostle_n bid_v we_o rom._n 12._o not_o to_o be_v wise_a than_o we_o ought_v to_o be_v but_o to_o be_v wise_a to_o sobriety_n and_o as_o god_n have_v divide_v to_o every_o man_n the_o measure_n of_o faith_n which_o measure_n consist_v in_o two_o thing_n to_o wit_n that_o we_o subtract_v not_o from_o faith_n that_o which_o be_v of_o faith_n nor_o n.b._n attribute_v that_o to_o faith_n which_o be_v not_o of_o faith_n for_o by_o either_o of_o these_o way_n the_o measure_n of_o faith_n be_v exceed_v and_o man_n deviate_v from_o the_o continence_n of_o the_o sacred_a scripture_n which_o express_v the_o measure_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v from_o the_o full_a sufficiency_n of_o the_o scripture_n measure_n and_o this_o measure_n by_o god_n assistance_n we_o will_v hold_v that_o we_o may_v write_v or_o teach_v nothing_o dissonant_n to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n but_o if_o by_o ignorance_n or_o inadvertency_n we_o shall_v write_v any_o thing_n dissonant_n let_v it_o be_v take_v ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la as_o not_o write_v this_o be_v a_o confession_n of_o the_o religion_n of_o the_o protestant_n and_o though_o he_o adjoyn_v a_o submission_n to_o the_o roman_a church_n because_o he_o be_v breed_v in_o it_o it_o be_v only_o as_o to_o a_o interpreter_n of_o doubtful_a text_n of_o scripture_n so_o that_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o our_o rule_n and_o measure_n of_o faith_n be_v grant_v by_o he_o and_o zealous_o assert_v and_o that_o without_o bellarmine_n and_o costerus_n limitation_n to_o point_n necessary_a to_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o he_o extend_v it_o to_o all_o the_o faith_n aquin._n 22._o q._n 1._o a._n 10._o ad_fw-la 1._o say_v that_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n the_o truth_n of_o the_o faith_n be_v sufficient_o explicate_v even_o when_o he_o be_v plead_v for_o the_o pope_n power_n to_o make_v new_a creed_n to_o obviate_v error_n and_o in_o his_o sum_n de_fw-fr verit._n disp_n de_fw-fr fide_fw-la q._n 10._o ad_fw-la 11._o he_o say_v that_o all_o the_o mean_n by_o which_o the_o faith_n come_v to_o we_o be_v free_a from_o suspicion_n the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n we_o believe_v for_o this_o reason_n because_o god_n bear_v they_o witness_v by_o work_a miracle_n as_o mar._n 16._o confirm_v their_o speech_n with_o follow_v sign_n but_o their_o successor_n we_o believe_v not_o but_o so_o far_o as_o they_o declare_v to_o we_o those_o thing_n which_o they_o have_v leave_v we_o in_o the_o scripture_n this_o be_v the_o religion_n of_o the_o protestant_n scotus_n in_o prologue_n in_o scent_n 1._o make_v it_o his_o second_o question_n whether_o supernatural_a knowledge_n necessary_a to_o we_o in_o the_o way_n be_v sufficient_o deliver_v in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n which_o he_o prove_v have_v first_o give_v ten_o argument_n to_o prove_v the_o truth_n of_o scripture_n and_o 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